Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:28:22 -
[1] - Quote
Recently PLEX prices went up by 20%. Some ppl were buying it for quite a while. Now we know the reason behind that.
Today we learned that PLEX prices will rise even more, since ppl will buy PLEX to get AUR above 1000. Then, after the changes are implemented the price will drastically drop.
CSM knew about it. Their friends who got the info were buying PLEX for few weeks now, so now they can make dank ISK selling all those overpriced PLEX now or when the prices will be even higher.
Can we get rid of CSM? Their only role is to leak info for big entities/their friends. Casual players don't care and don't even vote for CSM. Players in big alliances are forced to vote for specific candidates. Overall CSM is giving advantage to 1% of player base, at the expense of reminding 99%.
If we can't get rid of CSM we should at least demand for the current CSM crew (who leaked that info) to be banned from being CSM ever again.
tl;dr CSM is corrupted and should be removed/punished. |
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais
Fortis Fortuna Adiuvatt Dot Dot Dot
63
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:30:34 -
[2] - Quote
Plex prices go up and down all the time.
Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage. |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
18
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:33:17 -
[3] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time. Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage. So you're saying it just happens to be a huge coincidnce? I don't even need my tinfoil on that tight to see that someone leaked and some people reaped. |
mkint
1605
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:39:37 -
[4] - Quote
Look at price history graphs. They have been almost completely flat for a good long while, maybe a 1% fluctuation up or down. There wasn't any public inciting incident to drive prices up, they should have stayed completely flat. Then a 20% gain in 3 days with nothing to provoke such a ridiculous jump, and suddenly after the fact there's a big related announcement. It is suspicious as hell. IA had better be doing some investigating, not just of CSM but of CCP employees. If this was Wall Street, somebody would be going to jail.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:40:50 -
[5] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time.
Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage.
PLEX changes
PLEX market 60 days
PLEX market 15 days
You need to be really blind to not see what just happened. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
547
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:42:19 -
[6] - Quote
mkint wrote:Look at price history graphs. They have been almost completely flat for a good long while, maybe a 1% fluctuation up or down. There wasn't any public inciting incident to drive prices up, they should have stayed completely flat. Then a 20% gain in 3 days with nothing to provoke such a ridiculous jump, and suddenly after the fact there's a big related announcement. It is suspicious as hell. IA had better be doing some investigating, not just of CSM but of CCP employees. If this was Wall Street, somebody would be going to jail.
what did you expect man?????? like seriously???
it's CCP!!!!!! t2 bpo same story! people still get surprised LUL
it's 2k17! everything can be sold |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
20
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:42:32 -
[7] - Quote
PLEXGate. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
547
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:44:29 -
[8] - Quote
build a wall and throw CSM to the other side!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
22
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:47:58 -
[9] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:build a wall and throw CSM to the other side!!!!!!!!!!!! And make null-sec pay for it. If they refuse, tax their high-sec exports. |
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
55
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:51:17 -
[10] - Quote
PLEX price in the Forge:
Mar 1, 2016 - 1.2 billion May 1, 2016 - 0.9 billion July 1, 2016 - 0.9 billion Sept 1, 2016 - 1.0 billion Nov 1, 2016 - 1.2 billion Jan 1, 2017 - 1.0 billion Today - 1.2 billion
So.... the problem is what? |
|
grin man
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:54:11 -
[11] - Quote
Or keep them but don't give them any info about future changes? |
Kalemi
Mercenaries X
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 20:58:18 -
[12] - Quote
If there's any foul play there should be a pretty easy to follow paper trail. |
Cade Windstalker
1107
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:09:38 -
[13] - Quote
Couple of qualitative problems with this theory.
First, the flatline on PLEX prices goes back to well before the summit which is likely where the CSM would have heard about anything like this, so it's questionable if the flatline on PLEX could be easily related to this.
Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar. This influx of new PLEX will likely drop the price, not raise it, so it doesn't make sense for the price to be going up like this in response to a leak, if anything people would be selling their PLEX in anticipation of a drop in value.
Third, and running somewhat contrary to the last point. This change is months out so even with advanced info any kind of action is going to be hugely risky.
And lastly three days ago was patch day, and PLEX prices always go nutty after a patch, especially one as economically 'interesting' as this last one that saw changes to both Rorqual Mining and Carrier Ratting. That's a far more likely cause for anything like this than "OMG CSM leaks!!!"
If you're right I hope CCP bans those involved, but I don't think you're right.
sits back to watch the entertainment |
roberts dragon
Beak Enterprises TRUE VINE
36
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:12:17 -
[14] - Quote
oh dear looks like theres a bit of nudge nudge wink wink , i get the popcorn out |
mkint
1606
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:19:49 -
[15] - Quote
Kalemi wrote:If there's any foul play there should be a pretty easy to follow paper trail. The questions are 1) If CCP would actually admit to it, 2) what kind of punishment should be passed out.
1) CCP has reason to keep it under wraps, as discrediting the CSM would be bad publicity. As far as I can tell, it sounds like most of the devs don't particularly like the CSM anyway and every CSM basically has to start over every year. This might just neuter the CSM, especially since all the influence they might have is pretty unofficial anyway.
2) a 20% price jump in this kind of price-vs-volume item wouldn't be easy for just 1 person to manipulate. They would have to involve an alliance financing it. So who gets punished? If the CSM member didn't care anyway and was just trolling before quitting the game, there isn't really any way to punish them. So, how far down the hill does the sh*t roll?
On the other hand, if it was a CCPer, would we even hear about it? They might be able to hide their involvement better, and there might be even MORE incentive to keep it under wraps. Unless there's some public confession by the perpetrator (assuming it was an employee), we'll probably never even hear about it.
The big thing that concerns me about this conspiracy is the trade volume. Even though the price jump was big, the volume stayed pretty normal, though I'm not good enough with these kinds of graphs to know if that would still be within the expected behavior in the case of a leak.
Maxim 6. If violence wasnGÇÖt your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10592
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:31:39 -
[16] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar.
Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game.
Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character.
That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day?
Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
22
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:33:11 -
[17] - Quote
roberts dragon wrote:oh dear looks like theres a bit of nudge nudge wink wink , i get the popcorn out The CSM leaked... and players freaked. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3206
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:37:24 -
[18] - Quote
A raise of 20% around the same time 2 things got nerfed and people announced army of alts would replace it is surprising?
You know, the "I will run a fleet of barge instead of mine in that POS rorq" and "Carrier rattign si dead, I'll run a fleet of afktar instead" people. Is it possible they might actaully ahve followed through with those ideas and bought PLEX to, you know, PLEX those accounts? |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
24
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:38:08 -
[19] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Nope. Grand Theft CCPGäó.
Frostys Virpio wrote:A raise of 20% around the same time 2 things got nerfed and people announced army of alts would replace it is surprising? Coincidentally surprising, yes. The conspiracy theorist in me won't be appeased that easily, though. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3206
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:38:27 -
[20] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar.
Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game. Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character. That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day? Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Mr Epeen
Will people actually quit over this? If not, then it's essentially a non-issue. |
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
548
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:38:42 -
[21] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:A raise of 20% around the same time 2 things got nerfed and people announced army of alts would replace it is surprising?
You know, the "I will run a fleet of barge instead of mine in that POS rorq" and "Carrier rattign si dead, I'll run a fleet of afktar instead" people. Is it possible they might actaully ahve followed through with those ideas and bought PLEX to, you know, PLEX those accounts?
since when people follow through with their ideas? seems a good film to me |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
695
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:39:13 -
[22] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time.
Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage. Check PLEX price history for last 3 days. Disturbing. I don't believe last patch had some much influence.
Today we have devblog about PLEX changes. Price rising would start today not 3 days ago.
It stinks, PLEX is bought with real money and CCP may have real problems with that situation.
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
If you need a scout mail me.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3206
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:39:28 -
[23] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:A raise of 20% around the same time 2 things got nerfed and people announced army of alts would replace it is surprising?
You know, the "I will run a fleet of barge instead of mine in that POS rorq" and "Carrier rattign si dead, I'll run a fleet of afktar instead" people. Is it possible they might actaully ahve followed through with those ideas and bought PLEX to, you know, PLEX those accounts? since when people follow through with their ideas? seems a good film to me
Tippia did. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
548
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:40:47 -
[24] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Soel Reit wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:A raise of 20% around the same time 2 things got nerfed and people announced army of alts would replace it is surprising?
You know, the "I will run a fleet of barge instead of mine in that POS rorq" and "Carrier rattign si dead, I'll run a fleet of afktar instead" people. Is it possible they might actaully ahve followed through with those ideas and bought PLEX to, you know, PLEX those accounts? since when people follow through with their ideas? seems a good film to me Tippia did.
tippia is the only and one hero we deserve! call tippia back!!!!!!!!!
one ray of light in a storm? |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
695
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:44:23 -
[25] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game.
Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character.
That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day?
Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Old, new greed is good?
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
If you need a scout mail me.
|
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
26
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:48:44 -
[26] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Old, new greed is good? Worked for Lehman Brothers. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
548
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:50:05 -
[27] - Quote
it's obvious that someone very high in CCP is cashing in and is ready to run with the money 3..2...1.... BOOM! 200km/s |
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 21:55:10 -
[28] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar. This influx of new PLEX will likely drop the price, not raise it, so it doesn't make sense for the price to be going up like this in response to a leak, if anything people would be selling their PLEX in anticipation of a drop in value.
Third, and running somewhat contrary to the last point. This change is months out so even with advanced info any kind of action is going to be hugely risky.
I would distinguish two important moments: before and after the new changes are implemented.
PLEX prices will jump even more after the changes were announced, due to all the ppl with less than 1000 AUR will want to get a PLEX. That's how, if the theory is correct, friends of CSM already made huge profits - since they were buying PLEX for a while now. The differences in PLEX prices, over the last 20 days, are so huge, that those involved ppl could have made trillions of ISK already.
PLEX prices will drop a lot after the announced changes are implemented - ppl will lose their AUR under 1000, so they won't be pushing PLEX prices and all the existing AUR above 1000 will flood the PLEX market. At this point CSM and friends should already converted everything to ISK.
Frostys Virpio wrote:A raise of 20% around the same time 2 things got nerfed and people announced army of alts would replace it is surprising?
You know, the "I will run a fleet of barge instead of mine in that POS rorq" and "Carrier rattign si dead, I'll run a fleet of afktar instead" people. Is it possible they might actaully ahve followed through with those ideas and bought PLEX to, you know, PLEX those accounts?
I'd love to see some data about the sudden jump in the number of active accounts. However the public data SEE HERE suggest that the amount of active accounts is recently only decreasing.
I've seen ppl in many trade channels ingame asking why are PLEX prices rising so fast recently and noone so far had any convicing answer...
...until now, when CCP released the info that CSM had before everyone else. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
276
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:00:23 -
[29] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsPqwnloj7Y
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
26
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:05:04 -
[30] - Quote
"Help! I'm being repressed!" |
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
548
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:09:09 -
[31] - Quote
Not, never a bait click! |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
29
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:10:19 -
[32] - Quote
I am the Law. |
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
357
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:17:47 -
[33] - Quote
Why would you want to delete the CSM because of someone cheating?
EVE is built on the premise of spying and lying. Infiltrating organisations and destroying them for profit and funzies.
It would be unrealistic to expect the CSM of EVE to work differently, where would the excitement be then?
All the politics and backstabbing of the elections of CSM are part of the attraction and unique nature of EVE.
Does any other game have a player council?
The player council is a meta-game which depends on the game of EVE and adds to EVE.
Sure, CCP devs probably hate the CSM representatives, but that's not because the reps come along pretending to know about the game and interfering with the devs' jobs, that's because the CSM doesn't know about deodorants.
~
~~
Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox.
~~
~
|
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
29
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:17:51 -
[34] - Quote
Rather than speculate whether or not someone leaked (they did), the better question to ask is whether the CSM should be immediately disbanded? |
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:26:49 -
[35] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Why would you want to delete the CSM because of someone cheating?
EVE is built on the premise of spying and lying. Infiltrating organisations and destroying them for profit and funzies.
It would be unrealistic to expect the CSM of EVE to work differently, where would the excitement be then?
All the politics and backstabbing of the elections of CSM are part of the attraction and unique nature of EVE.
Does any other game have a player council?
The player council is a meta-game which depends on the game of EVE and adds to EVE.
Sure, CCP devs probably hate the CSM representatives, but that's not because the reps come along pretending to know about the game and interfering with the devs' jobs, that's because the CSM doesn't know about deodorants.
I'm not sure if CSM leaking info to their friends/big alliances is sth that the majority of players are supporting.
Spying/lying inside the game is fine, but when it comes to lying/spying outside of the game and regarding PLEX, so item bought for real money, that becomes really, really shady.
PS. Guys I appreciate all the links and understand that you are telling me: "duh, everyone knows about the corruption and nothing will change" but I'd really appreciate some real discussion about it. |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
34
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 22:55:39 -
[36] - Quote
Real discussion - sure. A fraction (pittance) of the playerbase votes for the CSM. The vast majority of candidates elected are rubber-stamped by the major null-sec alliances and members are given their marching orders as to who to vote for. As such, the CSM represents the 1% of the 0.1% elitists of EVE.
We see at least one major CSM fiasco annually (CSM X really went the extra mile) and there have been so many leaks over the years that it's a wonder they even have an NDA (let alone try to enforce it).
"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." |
Sweet Adamas
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:00:21 -
[37] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time.
Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage.
Pure co incidence |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
551
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:01:31 -
[38] - Quote
Drake Aihaken wrote: "I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
or just nuke the planet and let them drift towards the limits of the universe!
#TowardInfinityAndBeyond #ToyStory
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
1377
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:14:10 -
[39] - Quote
Hir Miriel wrote:Why would you want to delete the CSM because of someone cheating?
EVE is built on the premise of spying and lying. Infiltrating organisations and destroying them for profit and funzies.
It would be unrealistic to expect the CSM of EVE to work differently, where would the excitement be then?
All the politics and backstabbing of the elections of CSM are part of the attraction and unique nature of EVE.
Does any other game have a player council?
The player council is a meta-game which depends on the game of EVE and adds to EVE.
Sure, CCP devs probably hate the CSM representatives, but that's not because the reps come along pretending to know about the game and interfering with the devs' jobs, that's because the CSM doesn't know about deodorants. Pretty much this. You have to remember this is a company that not only created THIS game in the way it is today and you need to realize the playerbase. This is basically what Eve is about really. That this surprises people when it happens is amusing in the most delightful way. Its like saying water is wet and being surprised by it being true.
It would be amusing to be a fly on the wall of what goes on between the CSM and CCP as to what, when or how to say certain things or what not to say as well. It is an entirely different meta that is right.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
552
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:17:18 -
[40] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote: Its like saying water is wet
interesting example watson! |
|
Pew Terror
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
235
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:18:06 -
[41] - Quote
I never understood the CSM...
Only informing a select small group about changes and exclusively valuing their feedback is just bad customer interaction. |
Cherry Sulphate
ojingo
39
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:43:41 -
[42] - Quote
op, you mentioned dank isk. i'm somewhat in awe of your internet cool. |
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
45
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:50:51 -
[43] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Will people actually quit over this? If not, then it's essentially a non-issue. Well, I'll support your decision to quit if that's what you really want to do... |
Algarion Getz
Aideron Corp
328
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:51:52 -
[44] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar.
Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game. Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character. That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day? Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Mr Epeen AUR below 1000 will be erased? WTF
|
Maldiro Selkurk
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
598
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:57:12 -
[45] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar.
Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game. Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character. That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day? Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Mr Epeen Will people actually quit over this? If not, then it's essentially a non-issue.
Since when is corporate theft from private citizens not a real and important issue?
This goes WAY beyond EVE in its entirety, it is theft pure and simple.
If my RL corp could steal just one dollar from everyone in the world id be rich as hell, but its only one dollar so its okay, is that it?
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
|
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
47
|
Posted - 2017.03.16 23:57:18 -
[46] - Quote
Did you get the memo? |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
555
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:05:00 -
[47] - Quote
So True |
Jacques d'Orleans
3003
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:18:53 -
[48] - Quote
The end is nigh
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
|
Vigirr
279
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:23:17 -
[49] - Quote
mkint wrote:Look at price history graphs. They have been almost completely flat for a good long while, maybe a 1% fluctuation up or down. There wasn't any public inciting incident to drive prices up, they should have stayed completely flat. Then a 20% gain in 3 days with nothing to provoke such a ridiculous jump, and suddenly after the fact there's a big related announcement. It is suspicious as hell. IA had better be doing some investigating, not just of CSM but of CCP employees. If this was Wall Street, somebody would be going to jail.
This right there. This is beyond a small rng fluctuation, this is insider trading. |
Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4970
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:25:42 -
[50] - Quote
Kalemi wrote:If there's any foul play there should be a pretty easy to follow paper trail. ^ |
|
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
16
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:29:21 -
[51] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Hir Miriel wrote:Why would you want to delete the CSM because of someone cheating?
EVE is built on the premise of spying and lying. Infiltrating organisations and destroying them for profit and funzies.
It would be unrealistic to expect the CSM of EVE to work differently, where would the excitement be then?
All the politics and backstabbing of the elections of CSM are part of the attraction and unique nature of EVE.
Does any other game have a player council?
The player council is a meta-game which depends on the game of EVE and adds to EVE.
Sure, CCP devs probably hate the CSM representatives, but that's not because the reps come along pretending to know about the game and interfering with the devs' jobs, that's because the CSM doesn't know about deodorants. Pretty much this. You have to remember this is a company that not only created THIS game in the way it is today and you need to realize the playerbase. This is basically what Eve is about really. That this surprises people when it happens is amusing in the most delightful way. Its like saying water is wet and being surprised by it being true. It would be amusing to be a fly on the wall of what goes on between the CSM and CCP as to what, when or how to say certain things or what not to say as well. It is an entirely different meta that is right.
Yeah, dumb me believing in the idea that CSM should be an independent, objective body. Would you also support insider trading, when i.e. a Central Bank high ranked employee leaks info to his buddies about the incoming changes in interest rates? Last time I checked that was a crime in most of the developed countries. |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1627
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:32:25 -
[52] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar.
Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game. Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character. That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day? Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Mr Epeen Will people actually quit over this? If not, then it's essentially a non-issue.
Will anyone care if they do? Honestly? Unless it's someone who really has an impact on the community, no one is even going to notice.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Cade Windstalker
1108
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:34:25 -
[53] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:I would distinguish two important moments: before and after the new changes are implemented.
PLEX prices will jump even more after the changes were announced, due to all the ppl with less than 1000 AUR will want to get a PLEX. That's how, if the theory is correct, friends of CSM already made huge profits - since they were buying PLEX for a while now. The differences in PLEX prices, over the last 20 days, are so huge, that those involved ppl could have made trillions of ISK already.
PLEX prices will drop a lot after the announced changes are implemented - ppl will lose their AUR under 1000, so they won't be pushing PLEX prices and all the existing AUR above 1000 will flood the PLEX market. At this point CSM and friends should already converted everything to ISK.
This still doesn't pass the Econ 101 sniff test.
If people were buying a bunch of PLEX in advance of this announcement then that would have pushed the price up over the last few months, not kept it roughly steady.
Also the current change in PLEX prices is... not that much honestly. The drop between November 16th when Citadel dropped and November 30th when the price more or less stabilized was about twice this rise, and all of that was just normal post-patch PLEX shocks.
Also converting PLEX to ISK requires that the price jump, and there's no good way to push the PLEX market up without either buying a ton of PLEX, which is economically super risky, or getting a bunch of people to buy a ton of PLEX which is basically impossible to keep a secret.
This seems a lot like you haven't looked at the PLEX market much in the last couple years, looked at it today, and immediately jumped to conspiracy theories to explain it, when in reality the PLEX market has jumped around tons over the last few months let alone the last few years.
Girka Kring wrote:I'd love to see some data about the sudden jump in the number of active accounts. However the public data SEE HERE suggest that the amount of active accounts is recently only decreasing. I've seen ppl in many trade channels ingame asking why are PLEX prices rising so fast recently and noone so far had any convicing answer... ...until now, when CCP released the info that CSM had before everyone else.
That's active players logged in, not subbed accounts... |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
558
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 00:42:48 -
[54] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Girka Kring wrote:I would distinguish two important moments: before and after the new changes are implemented.
PLEX prices will jump even more after the changes were announced, due to all the ppl with less than 1000 AUR will want to get a PLEX. That's how, if the theory is correct, friends of CSM already made huge profits - since they were buying PLEX for a while now. The differences in PLEX prices, over the last 20 days, are so huge, that those involved ppl could have made trillions of ISK already.
PLEX prices will drop a lot after the announced changes are implemented - ppl will lose their AUR under 1000, so they won't be pushing PLEX prices and all the existing AUR above 1000 will flood the PLEX market. At this point CSM and friends should already converted everything to ISK. This still doesn't pass the Econ 101 sniff test. If people were buying a bunch of PLEX in advance of this announcement then that would have pushed the price up over the last few months, not kept it roughly steady. Also the current change in PLEX prices is... not that much honestly. The drop between November 16th when Citadel dropped and November 30th when the price more or less stabilized was about twice this rise, and all of that was just normal post-patch PLEX shocks. Also converting PLEX to ISK requires that the price jump, and there's no good way to push the PLEX market up without either buying a ton of PLEX, which is economically super risky, or getting a bunch of people to buy a ton of PLEX which is basically impossible to keep a secret. This seems a lot like you haven't looked at the PLEX market much in the last couple years, looked at it today, and immediately jumped to conspiracy theories to explain it, when in reality the PLEX market has jumped around tons over the last few months let alone the last few years.Girka Kring wrote:I'd love to see some data about the sudden jump in the number of active accounts. However the public data SEE HERE suggest that the amount of active accounts is recently only decreasing. I've seen ppl in many trade channels ingame asking why are PLEX prices rising so fast recently and noone so far had any convicing answer... ...until now, when CCP released the info that CSM had before everyone else. That's active players logged in, not subbed accounts...
STOP DEFENDING WHAT IS NOT DEFENDABLE!
also: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/5zufh4/dank_leaks/ if reddit says that is true... then it's true!!!!!!!!! no counter arguments!!! LEGIT |
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 01:05:53 -
[55] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Girka Kring wrote:I would distinguish two important moments: before and after the new changes are implemented.
PLEX prices will jump even more after the changes were announced, due to all the ppl with less than 1000 AUR will want to get a PLEX. That's how, if the theory is correct, friends of CSM already made huge profits - since they were buying PLEX for a while now. The differences in PLEX prices, over the last 20 days, are so huge, that those involved ppl could have made trillions of ISK already.
PLEX prices will drop a lot after the announced changes are implemented - ppl will lose their AUR under 1000, so they won't be pushing PLEX prices and all the existing AUR above 1000 will flood the PLEX market. At this point CSM and friends should already converted everything to ISK. This still doesn't pass the Econ 101 sniff test. If people were buying a bunch of PLEX in advance of this announcement then that would have pushed the price up over the last few months, not kept it roughly steady. Also the current change in PLEX prices is... not that much honestly. The drop between November 16th when Citadel dropped and November 30th when the price more or less stabilized was about twice this rise, and all of that was just normal post-patch PLEX shocks. Also converting PLEX to ISK requires that the price jump, and there's no good way to push the PLEX market up without either buying a ton of PLEX, which is economically super risky, or getting a bunch of people to buy a ton of PLEX which is basically impossible to keep a secret. This seems a lot like you haven't looked at the PLEX market much in the last couple years, looked at it today, and immediately jumped to conspiracy theories to explain it, when in reality the PLEX market has jumped around tons over the last few months let alone the last few years.Girka Kring wrote:I'd love to see some data about the sudden jump in the number of active accounts. However the public data SEE HERE suggest that the amount of active accounts is recently only decreasing. I've seen ppl in many trade channels ingame asking why are PLEX prices rising so fast recently and noone so far had any convicing answer... ...until now, when CCP released the info that CSM had before everyone else. That's active players logged in, not subbed accounts...
Well I suspect the leaks started quite some time ago, but then it spread, and finally, about 14 days before the announcement there were so many ppl buying PLEX that the price started to rise. Remember that on average there are ~4k PLEX traded every single day, that's 4,4 trillion ISK market. Pushing the price by even 20% requires a lot more demand than supply. Also remember about all the markets tied to PLEX market, so basically everything that cost AUR - skill extractors for example. That 20% change in price over last 2 weeks is huge.
I already said that there will be even more demand for PLEX when all ppl having less than 1000 AUR realize that without buying a PLEX their AUR will be wasted. That's the inisder trading info I'm talking about. If CCP didn't decide to remove AUR below 1000 from all the accounts, then there wouldn't really be any field for those CSM info manipulations - since we don't have swap orders, and ppl can't get ISK from goods that are losing value over time.
I agree, PLEX prices were fluctuating but there wasn't any cause for it recently and this PLEX changes announcements, and especially the part about removing AUR under 1000 is the most reasonable explanation behind PLEX price rising. However I would expect it to happen after the announcement, not before it...
And the data about declining number of active accounts isn't really selling the story about all the rorqual miners activating and using PLEX for 10 more alt accounts, rising the PLEX price by 20%. Unless you actually believe that they were already playing 10 extra alpha accounts everyday, while farming in their rorquals.
|
Professor Push
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
14
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 01:35:21 -
[56] - Quote
GÇ£People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.GÇ¥
GÇò Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations |
Cade Windstalker
1110
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 02:04:20 -
[57] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Well I suspect the leaks started quite some time ago, but then it spread, and finally, about 14 days before the announcement there were so many ppl buying PLEX that the price started to rise. Remember that on average there are ~4k PLEX traded every single day, that's 4,4 trillion ISK market. Pushing the price by even 20% requires a lot more demand than supply. Also remember about all the markets tied to PLEX market, so basically everything that cost AUR - skill extractors for example. That 20% change in price over last 2 weeks is huge.
I already said that there will be even more demand for PLEX when all ppl having less than 1000 AUR realize that without buying a PLEX their AUR will be wasted. That's the inisder trading info I'm talking about. If CCP didn't decide to remove AUR below 1000 from all the accounts, then there wouldn't really be any field for those CSM info manipulations - since we don't have swap orders, and ppl can't get ISK from goods that are losing value over time.
I agree, PLEX prices were fluctuating but there wasn't any cause for it recently and this PLEX changes announcements, and especially the part about removing AUR under 1000 is the most reasonable explanation behind PLEX price rising. However I would expect it to happen after the announcement, not before it...
And the data about declining number of active accounts isn't really selling the story about all the rorqual miners activating and using PLEX for 10 more alt accounts, rising the PLEX price by 20%. Unless you actually believe that they were already playing 10 extra alpha accounts everyday, while farming in their rorquals.
Your assumptions are growing assumptions to try to support themselves... just let them fall over and die peacefully.
Also, again, this isn't that big of a swing. Just look at the history of the PLEX market.
Your AUR theory doesn't hold water, you can just convert the AUR into some other fungible good like Skins and cash it out that way. There's basically no reason to buy PLEX just to keep AUR around.
Yes, there was a cause for it recently, the start of the recent spike literally coincides with the patch notes being released. You see fluctuations like this *every major patch* this has been true for literally most of a decade at this point.
There is no data on declining numbers of active accounts, there's data on character activity but that's subject to plenty of external factors and falls off every winter, independent of PLEX prices. In fact the week over week decline is less than 500 pilots. The major snow storm that just hit the US East Cost on patch day could easily account for that.
This whole theory is the very definition of jumping to conclusions with no evidence |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
558
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 02:09:29 -
[58] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:This whole theory is the very definition of jumping to conclusions with no evidence
Legit CCP alt... Pls Ignore |
Peta Chieve
White Partyhat Trading Company Hld.
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 02:25:27 -
[59] - Quote
While i would not consider this theory impossible, i would argue that had CSM members leaked this information to enough people, the market would of been showing it the past few weeks if not longer, so even if there was a leak, i would not consider it to be a large enough issue, that an entire alliance is going to make ******** ISK due to insider information. In all likely hood, it's maybe a handful of people doing it discretely, in which case its nothing out of the ordinary, merely people buying and selling PLEX, and there's no way to "prove" one way or another, unless there was massive move on the market, but looking at the figures, it's likely a coincidence or just a few people noticing a volume change or trend and then following it. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1299
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 02:43:26 -
[60] - Quote
I voted!
@lunettelulu7
|
|
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60089
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 02:54:46 -
[61] - Quote
Algarion Getz wrote: AUR below 1000 will be erased? WTF
Yeah, that sux.
Regardless of the amount of AUR within the account, CCP should just exchange it all into it's PLEX equivalent with the leftover amount being rounded up to equal 1 PLEX. Especially since it will take 500 of the new PLEX to equal the value of the current PLEX.
DMC
EDIT : What I don't understand is why the OP thinks the CSM is behind it. More than likely an employee of CCP is probably behind it if there is indeed some insider PLEX trading going on.
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Drake Aihaken
CODE.d
64
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 04:37:53 -
[62] - Quote
Looking forward to the next Jita monument shoot. |
Tetsel
Heretic Army Circle-Of-Two
298
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 04:44:15 -
[63] - Quote
Maybe somebody is already shooting it.
Loyal servent to Mother Amamake.
@EVE_Tetsel
Another Bittervet Please Ignore
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
522
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 05:14:32 -
[64] - Quote
i really must say the eve community as a whole are just a bunch of gullible followers who put too much trust into this shady company which has in the past had many scandals and leaks.. and yes its occurred once again
the csm has been a joke ever since it was even thought up. you're damn well knowing folks leak info to people and even over the past few days i noticed a strange behavior in those Plex cartels.
eve is just a money grab folks.. thats all there is to it.. you're finally seeing this.. you knew there was going to be a reason behind the alpha push.. you knew it in your gut.. but you thought "this will make the population numbers look better"
just calling it out like it is..
ccp you're doing one great job of pushing away players and showing your desperate for cash mindset.. i know you're desperate just look at the number of people playing.. can you even count to 75k active players any longer??
so be glad folks.. your csm failed you and they saved their buddies with the real money wallets cause their spreadsheet in space is all that matters..
you're very welcome..
now this is what i call meta-gaming
all the way to the bank.
dont forget to vote for the next csm. lol |
l0rd carlos
TURN LEFT
1325
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 07:28:17 -
[65] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote: eve is just a money grab folks.. thats all there is to it.. you're finally seeing this..
Expert call it: A product :)
Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos
|
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
703
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 07:38:51 -
[66] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Regardless of the amount of AUR within the account, CCP should just exchange it all into it's PLEX equivalent with the leftover amount being rounded up to equal 1 PLEX. Especially since it will take 500 of the new PLEX to equal the value of the current PLEX. There are some many possibilities how to convert <1000 Aurum.Game time, ISKs, SP.
"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville
If you need a scout mail me.
|
Kal Mir
Blackwater Task Forces Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 08:48:19 -
[67] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:(...) Can we get rid of CSM? Their only role is to leak info for big entities/their friends. Casual players don't care and don't even vote for CSM. Players in big alliances are forced to vote for specific candidates. Overall CSM is giving advantage to 1% of player base, at the expense of reminding 99%.(...) so true :( |
CopyCatz
Sienar Fleet Systems
81
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 08:49:58 -
[68] - Quote
It's rumors like this, coupled with the blunt deletion of <1000 aur that keeps sinking my confidence in Eve. I would expect a full inquiry into this by CCP and a statement about the smaller aur amounts before law suit threats start popping up again. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2103
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 09:22:01 -
[69] - Quote
I might be wrong but afaik every market speculation should affect daily amount of traded items. While graphs provided do not show it.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Kaivarian Coste
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
132
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 09:27:00 -
[70] - Quote
Any specific reason why <1000 aurum balances are being deleted? The new plex is supposed to be "granular". This just seems like a cheap, grubby move.
And in all my years, I've never voted once for CSM. It's a rubberstamp for the major blocs in this game, and hardly representative of the entire playerbase. This latest scandal suggests that the CSM is now an enemy of the playerbase. |
|
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29378
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 10:06:18 -
[71] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: Second, this change is likely to introduce a lot of new PLEX onto the market in the form of spare AUR. Like, I've personally got about a PLEX's worth of AUR that I've never spent before that I got entirely for free, and a lot of others will have something similar.
Hardly any new PLEX being introduced compared to the many billions of AUR that will simply be erased from the game. Keep in mind that you need 1000+ Aur to be considered for the conversion. Then remember that there are probably 500,000 characters in the game with leftover AUR that amounts to less than 1000 per character. That's straight up theft by CCP to my mind and needs to have some careful discussion before this goes live. You buy AUR with cash and then find it gone one day? Not good for business, CCP. Not good at all. Mr Epeen I wonder if they could do it that way:
Search accounts for bought aurum. Search for spent aurum in those accounts. Replace all bought and not spent Aurum with PLEX.
^ This would be the only fair way in my oppinion.
In every other case people will complain, because they will get "literally robbed". And of course if you bought something for real money, you should keep eqivalent of it, if the game is still functioning. That is what people are thinking usually.
In every other case CCP want to get a lot of bad carma, like EA.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Dinin Dalael
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 11:33:27 -
[72] - Quote
Drake Aihaken wrote:Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time. Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage. So you're saying it just happens to be a huge coincidnce? I don't even need my tinfoil on that tight to see that someone leaked and players reaped. If my CSM term were up in 2 weeks, I wasn't planning on running again and maybe even quitting EVE... Just saying - it's not much of a stretch.
What you said here, is kind of ********.
1- Just because you're the kind of PoS that would take advantage of a situation, doesn't mean others would. 2-If a CSM member is planning on leaving EVE, there's not much point in himself trying to enrich himself with isk. Sure he could try and do some RMT but meh...
Source your quotes, or stop spewing conspiracy theories.
PS: The moon Landing was not fake. You seem to be the kind of person who needs this information. |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
67
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 11:49:18 -
[73] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:If you're right I hope CCP bans those involved, but I don't think you're right. sits back to watch the entertainment
They wont; Or they would just find someone which they can blame; CSM's are just a CCP bitches... thats all about it;
Need a prove? Watch a video how amazed they were with a new scanning system (and a march patch at all) - and how many players are now speaks it's one of the worst changes ever/
|
Salvos Rhoska
2461
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:02:33 -
[74] - Quote
That the PLEX change and Aurum wipe is happening in the first place is already in and of itself a CSM failure.
PLEX was working just fine.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Keno Skir
1390
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:02:43 -
[75] - Quote
CopyCatz wrote:It's rumors like this, coupled with the blunt deletion of <1000 aur that keeps sinking my confidence in Eve. I would expect a full inquiry into this by CCP and a statement about the smaller aur amounts before law suit threats start popping up again.
There are no grounds for a law suit so the threats, much like always, would be without a leg to stand on
<Gùï> 250,000 Bonus SP when you start an Alpha Clone HERE <Gùï>
<Gùï> Contact me regarding my trusted Alliance Creation Service <Gùï>
|
Anthar Thebess
1688
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:04:47 -
[76] - Quote
CCP ban all involved people. Breach of NDA
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
292
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:05:23 -
[77] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:i really must say the eve community as a whole are just a bunch of gullible followers who put too much trust into this shady company which has in the past had many scandals and leaks.. and yes its occurred once again
who says they trust? Maybe they just are busy with REAL problems as many of them lead an adult life.
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
453
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:06:38 -
[78] - Quote
Sure get rid of the CSM.
As well meaning as they are and as much effort as CSM members put in, they are a strong echo chamber for CCP. I worry that it is dangerous for CCP to listen as heavily as they do on the CSM. Eve could quite easily drift farther and farther from normality as it's steady playerbase continually push for changes they want, then adapt. For example, take an honest outside look at suicide ganking. Don't fall back on the 'data' that ganking keeps players in game, I believe players who do find combat and player interaction will stay longer but not because they were ganked. Eve players reason that ganking is necessary for various reasons, due to the games design. However an outsider just sees that your stuff can be destroyed even if you're trying to be careful by moving it in highsec.
CCP either need as wide a net as possible on their ideas, or they need to decide on a goal on to for it for better or worse. For example, WoW decided on their own to make a panda expansion. That decision, I'm sure, cost as well as gained them players. Either take all the feedback you can, or go with your own path.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:12:35 -
[79] - Quote
scam involves real money legal investigation required |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
945
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:18:32 -
[80] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:As well meaning as they are and as much effort as CSM members put in, they are a strong echo chamber for CCP. I worry that it is dangerous for CCP to listen as heavily as they do on the CSM. Eve could quite easily drift farther and farther from normality as it's steady playerbase continually push for changes they want, then adapt. CCP listens to the CSM? Since when?
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
|
Tetsel
Heretic Army Circle-Of-Two
300
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:24:37 -
[81] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:As well meaning as they are and as much effort as CSM members put in, they are a strong echo chamber for CCP. I worry that it is dangerous for CCP to listen as heavily as they do on the CSM. Eve could quite easily drift farther and farther from normality as it's steady playerbase continually push for changes they want, then adapt. CCP listens to the CSM? Since when?
Pretty much this when it comes to real money and not game design CCP gives no **** for the CSM, Alpha clones were a big move and CSM learnt about it 2 days prior to the devblog, it wasn't discuss at all with them under NDA. Delete CSM plz that just a metagame tool for big voting groups and a PR/DC for CCP.
Loyal servent to Mother Amamake.
@EVE_Tetsel
Another Bittervet Please Ignore
|
Cat Evergreen
The Graduates The Initiative.
12
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:30:12 -
[82] - Quote
I don't see any indication for increased volume of PLEX traded in your screenshoot. Do you have other proof or indication that someone has been buying up PLEX before or during the price spike?
|
commander aze
410
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:35:29 -
[83] - Quote
Or... just a thought we elect people with high moral character via elecrions from the popular vote
Commander Aze For CSM XII
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=506400
Support the Community #Broadcast4Reps
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
949
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:38:18 -
[84] - Quote
commander aze wrote:Or... just a thought we elect people with high moral character via elecrions from the popular vote So nothing changes and the system will still be gamed by the nullsec blocs to gain access to NDA information and further their goals?
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
570
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:39:37 -
[85] - Quote
#NotMyCSM |
Salvos Rhoska
2464
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:56:59 -
[86] - Quote
commander aze wrote:Or... just a thought we elect people with high moral character via elecrions from the popular vote
When has this ever happened in the entire history of voting.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
1308
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 12:57:34 -
[87] - Quote
This thread was an inside job by the CSM to raise the prices on tinfoil hats. |
Kane Carnifex
Manson Family Advent of Fate
38
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:02:25 -
[88] - Quote
An Employee or CSM Member broke the None-Disclosure-Agreement (NDA). Honestly this will be really hard to proof and sue the right person.
Why happens this? Because of this ******* secret none Transparency ****. Doesn-¦t work in Companies, doesn-¦t work with Friends.. and also doesn-¦t work for Governments. But hey "We are CCP", we don-¦t learn from history...we want our own proof.
Fine, here is your proof you **** doesn't work how you like it.
PS: Sorry for the hard language but political correctness is another **** like above.#
http://vesuvi.de - EVE & Food Porn in German...
|
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
226
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:08:49 -
[89] - Quote
who knows if CSM are involved in RMT trades and making plex prices spike up then raze it to ground to make it low value for in-real-world currency so the csm buy new plex system plexes then scream its bad to go change it back then 5000 new plex is turned to 50000 another new plex so they sell it to lower plex prices just to say again plex ened changes |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
571
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:09:19 -
[90] - Quote
Kane Carnifex wrote:An Employee or CSM Member broke the None-Disclosure-Agreement (NDA). Honestly this will be really hard to proof and sue the right person.
Why happens this? Because of this ******* secret none Transparency ****. Doesn-¦t work in Companies, doesn-¦t work with Friends.. and also doesn-¦t work for Governments. But hey "We are CCP", we don-¦t learn from history...we want our own proof.
Fine, here is your proof you **** doesn't work how you like it.
Btw, i am german... I now my **** bro.
*Hands out a cookie* |
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
950
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:10:51 -
[91] - Quote
Kane Carnifex wrote:An Employee or CSM Member broke the None-Disclosure-Agreement (NDA). Honestly this will be really hard to proof and sue the right person. Nobody's going to get sued over anything.. It's not even official or proven, just rumor-mongering until now..
If it turns out to be true, CCP will at least impose a ban on future CSM participation and may take steps beyond that like a timed ban, but they won't sue anyone..
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:11:13 -
[92] - Quote
if csm was involved why would they make plex indestructable you dont profit from indestructable plex destroyed plex = greater plex value shows how dumb the csm are |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10602
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:15:21 -
[93] - Quote
Amak Boma wrote:who knows if CSM are involved in RMT trades and making plex prices spike up then raze it to ground to make it low value for in-real-world currency so the csm buy new plex system plexes then scream its bad to go change it back then 5000 new plex is turned to 50000 another new plex so they sell it to lower plex prices just to say again plex ened changes Is this a random word generator masquerading as a forum poster?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:15:22 -
[94] - Quote
god this game turned really bad i dont know why its worth playing now
every kill rats until inevitable meltdown
gghf guys |
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
68
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:15:26 -
[95] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:[quote=Kane Carnifex]
If it turns out to be true, CCP will at least impose a ban on future CSM participation and may take steps beyond that like a timed ban, but they won't sue anyone..
Hah you really believe CCP is not involved in this? HAhaaha
They would KILL for players $ instead of exchanging Plex for ISK; Thats why all this changes been made over months;
To lower your ISK/H ratio and now to just fck with Plex prices;;
Each 5 sold plexes, when is "like extra" - means a 20% of ISk (worth plexes) would burn from ppl wallet, if CCp would be lucky, then that 20% would be enough so ppl wont have enough ISK to buy a plex - and force them to finally pay via $;
Anyway my subs ends in 15 days, and im gonna hold with buying a plex till the prices wont drop enough;
(there is plenty of games to be played...)
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
950
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:20:34 -
[96] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:[quote=Kane Carnifex]
If it turns out to be true, CCP will at least impose a ban on future CSM participation and may take steps beyond that like a timed ban, but they won't sue anyone.. Hah you really believe CCP is not involved in this? HAhaaha They would KILL for players $ instead of exchanging Plex for ISK; Thats why all this changes been made over months; To lower your ISK/H ratio and now to just fck with Plex prices;; Each 5 sold plexes, when is "like extra" - means a 20% of ISk (worth plexes) would burn from ppl wallet, if CCp would be lucky, then that 20% would be enough so ppl wont have enough ISK to buy a plex - and force them to finally pay via $; Anyway my subs ends in 15 days, and im gonna hold with buying a plex till the prices wont drop enough; (there is plenty of games to be played...) 1) Aren't you supposed to have me blocked? 2) I'm, as usual, surprised by how much crap you can spill out into your posts. CCP gets more money when you pay for your subscription with PLEX than they do when you pay for your sub using the subscription system... CCP isn't seeding those PLEX into the market. Other players buy them from CCP and sell them for ISK on the market.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:27:04 -
[97] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote: 1) Aren't you supposed to have me blocked? 2) I'm, as usual, surprised by how much crap you can spill out into your posts. CCP gets more money when you pay for your subscription with PLEX than they do when you pay for your sub using the subscription system... CCP isn't seeding those PLEX into the market. Other players buy them from CCP and sell them for ISK on the market.
1) yeah u are blocked, but u had few posts which i agree out here; This one isn't
2) show me a proof of your stupid logic; Cause as long as i see you have no ******* idea about business stuff |
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2666
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:31:29 -
[98] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Girka Kring wrote:I would distinguish two important moments: before and after the new changes are implemented.
PLEX prices will jump even more after the changes were announced, due to all the ppl with less than 1000 AUR will want to get a PLEX. That's how, if the theory is correct, friends of CSM already made huge profits - since they were buying PLEX for a while now. The differences in PLEX prices, over the last 20 days, are so huge, that those involved ppl could have made trillions of ISK already.
PLEX prices will drop a lot after the announced changes are implemented - ppl will lose their AUR under 1000, so they won't be pushing PLEX prices and all the existing AUR above 1000 will flood the PLEX market. At this point CSM and friends should already converted everything to ISK. This still doesn't pass the Econ 101 sniff test. If people were buying a bunch of PLEX in advance of this announcement then that would have pushed the price up over the last few months, not kept it roughly steady. Also the current change in PLEX prices is... not that much honestly. The drop between November 16th when Citadel dropped and November 30th when the price more or less stabilized was about twice this rise, and all of that was just normal post-patch PLEX shocks. Also converting PLEX to ISK requires that the price jump, and there's no good way to push the PLEX market up without either buying a ton of PLEX, which is economically super risky, or getting a bunch of people to buy a ton of PLEX which is basically impossible to keep a secret. This seems a lot like you haven't looked at the PLEX market much in the last couple years, looked at it today, and immediately jumped to conspiracy theories to explain it, when in reality the PLEX market has jumped around tons over the last few months let alone the last few years.Girka Kring wrote:I'd love to see some data about the sudden jump in the number of active accounts. However the public data SEE HERE suggest that the amount of active accounts is recently only decreasing. I've seen ppl in many trade channels ingame asking why are PLEX prices rising so fast recently and noone so far had any convicing answer... ...until now, when CCP released the info that CSM had before everyone else. That's active players logged in, not subbed accounts... I have to agree, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Buying when the supply is about to go up?
looking at the graph it looks like the prices started going up on Mar 8. From Feb 25 to Mar 7 the median day price is at the bottom of the min/max line, Mar 8 is the first day you can see a good portion of the min/max line below the median spot. Less people dumping to buy orders -> price goes up. This was also 2 days after the monthly econ report came out. the isk faucets are pretty dang active and the sinks aren't keeping up. For most in game items we produce far more than we destroy so there are large stockpiles and continued manufacturing to keep prices low, Plex/injectors are pretty much the only place for that extra isk to go.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
|
Kane Carnifex
Manson Family Advent of Fate
39
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:34:44 -
[99] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote: Nobody's going to get sued over anything.. It's not even official or proven, just rumor-mongering until now..
If it turns out to be true, CCP will at least impose a ban on future CSM participation and may take steps beyond that like a timed ban, but they won't sue anyone..
Don-¦t see the point to discuss the kind of punishment at this point, but hey if you like here you go. (Can you activate common thinking please.. raise the level xD)
If you sign an NDA with no Punishment the NDA doesn-¦t make any sense. It is the same with the Secret Statement in the most Employee contracts which charge you at least with your salary. Instead of a sue i am fine with a BAN it is the same as long it hurts!
Stuff starts suspicious, you dig in and get it more solid and once a case is created you hand it over to a lawyer or the Security Department.
http://vesuvi.de - EVE & Food Porn in German...
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
524
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:35:43 -
[100] - Quote
CSM will just replace the current with new drones..
this is and has been CSM's way of handling business
and like ccp will step in and do something.
just as ccp was renewing faith.. they lose it once again..
im laughing so hard right now..over the fact that folks trust the CSM.
CSM has became a circle-jerk for geeks who just one up each other in a popularity contest for their alliances.. then they brag about their importance just because they went to Iceland to talk about internet spaceships.
in other words.. they are the most no life having boring nerds of all time. |
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
573
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:38:24 -
[101] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote: in other words.. they are the most no life having boring nerds of all time.
ouch! Shots Fired! |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
950
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:43:10 -
[102] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:Linus Gorp wrote: 1) Aren't you supposed to have me blocked? 2) I'm, as usual, surprised by how much crap you can spill out into your posts. CCP gets more money when you pay for your subscription with PLEX than they do when you pay for your sub using the subscription system... CCP isn't seeding those PLEX into the market. Other players buy them from CCP and sell them for ISK on the market.
1) yeah u are blocked, but u had few posts which i agree out here; This one isn't 2) show me a proof of your stupid logic; Cause as long as i see you have no ******* idea about business stuff It really is beyond me how you can be so underdeveloped and be an EVE player.. It's you making the stupid assumption, so you should be the one to proof that you're right, but here goes:
Subscription page PLEX page
I know you won't get it, but now I can at least say that I tried..
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:45:22 -
[103] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:Linus Gorp wrote: 1) Aren't you supposed to have me blocked? 2) I'm, as usual, surprised by how much crap you can spill out into your posts. CCP gets more money when you pay for your subscription with PLEX than they do when you pay for your sub using the subscription system... CCP isn't seeding those PLEX into the market. Other players buy them from CCP and sell them for ISK on the market.
1) yeah u are blocked, but u had few posts which i agree out here; This one isn't 2) show me a proof of your stupid logic; Cause as long as i see you have no ******* idea about business stuff It really is beyond me how you can be so underdeveloped and be an EVE player.. It's you making the stupid assumption, so you should be the one to proof that you're right, but here goes: Subscription pagePLEX pageI know you won't get it, but now I can at least say that I tried.. Edit: What's the point of blocking me when you read my posts anyway?
Wow really you just compared two pages of two products and call it a "proof"? what a short brain human being you are... sry im not gonna educate it how bad in thinking you are if you don't know how it's working... |
Kane Carnifex
Manson Family Advent of Fate
39
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:46:37 -
[104] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote: in other words.. they are the most no life having boring nerds of all time.
Haha, under the current and past circumstances this true statement :P Unfortunately one bad guy can affect a whole group.
But still i think the CSM secret stuff is ****, lets open the doors CCP. You can-¦t have so much dead bodys in your Yard xD
http://vesuvi.de - EVE & Food Porn in German...
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
950
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:48:17 -
[105] - Quote
Kane Carnifex wrote:Linus Gorp wrote: Nobody's going to get sued over anything.. It's not even official or proven, just rumor-mongering until now..
If it turns out to be true, CCP will at least impose a ban on future CSM participation and may take steps beyond that like a timed ban, but they won't sue anyone..
Don-¦t see the point to discuss the kind of punishment at this point, but hey if you like here you go. (Can you activate common thinking please.. raise the level xD) If you sign an NDA with no Punishment the NDA doesn-¦t make any sense. It is the same with the Secret Statement in the most Employee contracts which charge you at least with your salary. Instead of a sue i am fine with a BAN it is the same as long it hurts! Stuff starts suspicious, you dig in and get it more solid and once a case is created you hand it over to a lawyer or the Security Department. There is punishment, just not in the form of any legal... actions? Don't really know what word best describes what I mean..
CCP isn't going to pursue any legal actions over a CSM NDA breach because it would be way more hassle than it's worth, but they won't leave it unpunished either. They take appropriate measures, which means EVE-related actions (i.e. in the form of bans).
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
525
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:48:45 -
[106] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote: in other words.. they are the most no life having boring nerds of all time.
ouch! Shots Fired!
dude I gave the mitani more credit as a csm member than the debacle its became.. but I already knew CSM was a smokescreen for CCP's decision... the CSM has no power, they just have the inside preview on the changes in this game.. and like it or not.. they leak chit all the time.. there is no integrity in the CSM nor is there in CCP and their own employee's will leak info to their circle-jerk buddies cause of bromances...
yes i said it so fawking what!
time for them to get rid of this CSM bullchit.. and start all over.. what do the really represent?? change for who?? the little guy or the mega-coaltion. why in the hell does someone get a permanent seat when all they do is cheat to remain in their nerd power circle.
this honestly gives me perfect reason to invest my cash into other games such as star citizen and console gaming just cause i can never trust anyone in eve INCLUDING CCP!
and finally.. let me say this..
CCP you better be watching your micro transactions because the very 1st credit card scam for aur that comes up... then next time its going all the way to court.
better learn what happened to EA since you hired that old dude.. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
950
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:52:18 -
[107] - Quote
Naye Nathaniel wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Naye Nathaniel wrote:Linus Gorp wrote: 1) Aren't you supposed to have me blocked? 2) I'm, as usual, surprised by how much crap you can spill out into your posts. CCP gets more money when you pay for your subscription with PLEX than they do when you pay for your sub using the subscription system... CCP isn't seeding those PLEX into the market. Other players buy them from CCP and sell them for ISK on the market.
1) yeah u are blocked, but u had few posts which i agree out here; This one isn't 2) show me a proof of your stupid logic; Cause as long as i see you have no ******* idea about business stuff It really is beyond me how you can be so underdeveloped and be an EVE player.. It's you making the stupid assumption, so you should be the one to proof that you're right, but here goes: Subscription pagePLEX pageI know you won't get it, but now I can at least say that I tried.. Edit: What's the point of blocking me when you read my posts anyway? Wow really you just compared two pages of two products and call it a "proof"? what a short brain human being you are... sry im not gonna educate it how bad in thinking you are if you don't know how it's working... Naye, it really hurts my brain reading this non-sense bullshit that you write. For your own sake, just stop. Everyone reading your posts will instantly see how stupid and underdeveloped you are and won't even bother replying to you..
Really, just stop, go outside and get a basic level education.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Kane Carnifex
Manson Family Advent of Fate
39
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:54:29 -
[108] - Quote
@ Linus Gorp
Now we have a deal :) Totally agree which the legal hassle could be overkill.
My Job is done here, thanks very much for your time and appreciated you feedback. Have good one, don-¦t forget today is 17.3 we are all irish today :P
http://vesuvi.de - EVE & Food Porn in German...
|
Naye Nathaniel
COBRA INC
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:56:13 -
[109] - Quote
@Linus Gorp thats why you were blocked, as you are short brained troll;
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1692
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 13:59:11 -
[110] - Quote
As plausible as this case may seem, is there any proof yet? I don't find it surprising that PLEX prices are changing after an announcement to change how PLEX work, that's not proof of foul play. |
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
950
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 14:09:19 -
[111] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:As plausible as this case may seem, is there any proof yet? I don't find it surprising that PLEX prices are changing after an announcement to change how PLEX work, that's not proof of foul play. Nothing official yet. PLEX started skyrocketing 3 days before the official announcement. Don your tinfoil hat!
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29393
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 14:46:21 -
[112] - Quote
Tetsel wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:As well meaning as they are and as much effort as CSM members put in, they are a strong echo chamber for CCP. I worry that it is dangerous for CCP to listen as heavily as they do on the CSM. Eve could quite easily drift farther and farther from normality as it's steady playerbase continually push for changes they want, then adapt. CCP listens to the CSM? Since when? Pretty much this when it comes to real money and not game design CCP gives no **** for the CSM, Alpha clones were a big move and CSM learnt about it 2 days prior to the devblog, it wasn't discuss at all with them under NDA. Delete CSM plz that just a metagame tool for big voting groups and a PR/DC for CCP. But you have to propose something what would be better than current CSM.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Claevyan
The Suicide Express Rejection Of Sovereignty
17
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:03:40 -
[113] - Quote
All i gotta say here is... VOTE FOR CLAEVYAN, CSM XII
CSM 12: No Sov. No Agenda. No Promises.
|
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
1305
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:12:52 -
[114] - Quote
IMPEACH THE CSM
@lunettelulu7
|
Logan Jakal
Blue Sun. DARKNESS.
19
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:12:52 -
[115] - Quote
At the moment, this is pure speculation. Like several other people said, PLEX prices go up and down, it's not a big secret. EVE markets act like real life markets, prices rise and lower depending on situations and decisions. Now here is my point of view.
First of all, this whole story of buying PLEXes to convert tu AUR is a big mislead. CCP said that only an amount of 1000+ AUR will be converted to the new PLEXes, amounts under 1000 will be likely "deleted". CCP will have no other choice than to get back on this decision, they can not just strip people from Aurums that are worth real life money, it's like if a bank would tell you that your country changed his currency, but because your bank account amount was under a given sum, you lost your money. Doing so would just mean the end of CCP as I am pretty sure they would chain lawsuits one after the other.
Regarding CSM and the recent PLEX changes, we'll see if the prices continue to rise in the coming weeks, saying that at the moment the CSM is corrupted is pure speculation. Now, in my opinion, CSM shouldn't be involved in a change like that since CSM is supposed to be advisers about game development, and these PLEX changes rather more affect CCP's income than the game itself, people will still be able to buy game time with PLEXes, the only thing I hope is that it's not a huge middle finger to people that PLEX their accounts.
Anyway, I engage CCP to be careful and to listen to feedback, changes like that could be critical. |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:15:47 -
[116] - Quote
please note the doubling your debt of zero will a positive null effect of zero. you can even triple it.!
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
957
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:16:30 -
[117] - Quote
Logan Jakal wrote:First of all, this whole story of buying PLEXes to convert tu AUR is a big mislead. CCP said that only an amount of 1000+ AUR will be converted to the new PLEXes, amounts under 1000 will be likely "deleted". CCP will have no other choice than to get back on this decision, they can not just strip people from Aurums that are worth real life money, it's like if a bank would tell you that your country changed his currency, but because your bank account amount was under a given sum, you lost your money. Doing so would just mean the end of CCP as I am pretty sure they would chain lawsuits one after the other. Go to a lawyer with this "claim" and he'll laugh you out of the room.
When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the illiterate.
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
529
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:17:08 -
[118] - Quote
this rage against the current CSM sure has the current CSM quiet like crickets.
Name your favorite one of them all..
well there was steve but the rorqual change happened
there was jin'taan... then provi got instantly camped for his nightmare content.. I assume that's the next ship to get the nerf bat.
other than that.. has any other CSM member made a real contribution.. as will the next batch of super-nerds?
there just isn't proof enough measure the value of the csm just due to it being owned by all of null-sec bears.. no one has clear sight of how the game will be enjoyable for everyone and new sign ups..
there's only 1 guy I can think of recent memory that is CCP RISE....oh wait but he cant be on the CSM he works there.. he actually put in time on his card.. he was so busy with the NPI he just cant do it!..
my heart breaks into mini-plex now. |
Cade Windstalker
1125
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:17:22 -
[119] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:This whole theory is the very definition of jumping to conclusions with no evidence Legit CCP alt... Pls Ignore
Alternative theory: I actually passed Econ 101 in college...
Soel your trolling game is slipping...
Seriously though, I'm not actually a fan of the under-1000 AUR limit. I get what CCP is trying to do by limiting the shock to the PLEX market by not converting the tiny amounts of AUR held on a huge number of accounts, but there are better ways they could have done this other than getting rid of it entirely in this conversion.
My personal favorite suggestion is converting it to something else, like days of game time, instead of turning it into PLEX which would then flood the market and disincentivize buying PLEX to sell or getting rid of it entirely as they're doing now. |
ViolentDesire
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:18:18 -
[120] - Quote
Not a single CCP reply. Not a huge surprise.
While I have always voted for the correct CSM candidate(s), I do support getting rid of the CSM as it effectively has become a special interest group to push for changes that benefit large alliances and/or very rich players.
I find it interesting that some people think the meta game should apply to everything related to eve, including CSM and CCP decisions. Maybe this is a necessity so that every ****** up issue can be auto-dismissed. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
2469
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:22:25 -
[121] - Quote
Linus Gorp wrote:CCP isn't going to pursue any legal actions over a CSM NDA breach because it would be way more hassle than it's worth, but they won't leave it unpunished either. They take appropriate measures, which means EVE-related actions (i.e. in the form of bans).
Breach of NDA is an IRL legal issue. CCP knows the identity of CSMs. CSMs are not just players, they are real persons entrusted with company sensitive data, and bound to not share it or profit from it.
If its true that a CSM has leaked/profited from privileged NDA bound information, it also puts the CSM project in jeopardy. (Not like its the first time...)
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Alderson Point
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
40
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:22:27 -
[122] - Quote
Well, what happens in the real world when insider trading has had a Major impact on the value of a commodity or stock?
If it is true, CCP should freeze the market in plex, announce a massive, if not the biggest plex sale in history! Change their mind on wiping out all the small players Aurum, let it flood into destabilise the market and after a week and afterCancelling all buy and sell orders, allow the market to refloat!
No tears will be shed for the corrupt, who lose their shirts over this. |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:22:45 -
[123] - Quote
Are they deleting Aurum from the game or do I have to read the 17 100 pages. That is way more than 1 or 2 pages , 4 pages or 10 pages.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10609
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:30:27 -
[124] - Quote
Veine Miromme wrote:Are they deleting Aurum from the game or do I have to read the 17 100 pages. That is way more than 1 or 2 pages , 4 pages or 10 pages. You might try reading the Blog. It's far less than a page.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3218
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 15:58:09 -
[125] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Linus Gorp wrote:CCP isn't going to pursue any legal actions over a CSM NDA breach because it would be way more hassle than it's worth, but they won't leave it unpunished either. They take appropriate measures, which means EVE-related actions (i.e. in the form of bans). Breach of NDA is an IRL legal issue. CCP knows the identity of CSMs. CSMs are not just players, they are real persons entrusted with company sensitive data, and bound to not share it or profit from it. If its true that a CSM has leaked/profited from privileged NDA bound information, it also puts the CSM project in jeopardy. (Not like its the first time...)
I just don't know if CCP is willing to make any real bans if someone is found guilty of breaching the NDA. The last time CCP did something about it, it was when they banned someone from being on the CSM. Essentially, this mean you could in theory always get leaks for your alliance if you ahve a big enough voting block to put a new guy in every years. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
530
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:03:12 -
[126] - Quote
someone told CCP to burn all their financial aurum documents.
the CSM water-cooler vault said they had seen smoke coming out the top of the building in Iceland and some how fozzie was dancing in his underwear around a large fiyaaaah.
|
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:12:33 -
[127] - Quote
Quote:... The New New Eden Store With a much smaller PLEX, we can easily set up the New Eden Store catalog in PLEX prices rather than Aurum and let you use PLEX from your vault to buy things there. The coexistence of PLEX and Aurum has always been a heavy burden on anyone who wanted to buy something from CCP. Whether you just wanted a SKIN or you wanted to buy the smartest item to trade with other players to get ISK, you had some math to do. With Aurum out of the picture and PLEX taking over in the NES, buying should be much less confusing.
What about Aurum? Aurum had its run but we are excited to move forward with PLEX only.
How can I get a pitcher?
+
Quote:The coexistence of PLEX and Aurum has always been a heavy burden on anyone who wanted to buy something from CCP.
I disagree.
I have a few pilots to login with perhaps a small amount of Aurum. How can I verify their Aurum amount? Do I have to activate the pilot? Or the storage data will simply be freed for newer, perhaps friendly pilots, from this forfeiture.? (the last question looks like a question, but it's only a question in tone, not in essence. I don't use Aurum for fuel.)
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Scialt
Universal Sanitation Corporation
57
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:16:53 -
[128] - Quote
I don't get why people believe this is some sort of conspiracy.
Here's the price of plex over the last year in the Forge.
https://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/market/link/10000002/29668
The only real oddity is how flat plex prices were since December. No offense... but this looks pretty normal. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2931
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:18:35 -
[129] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Recently PLEX prices went up by 20%.
And PLEX volume didn't change at all from the normal pattern until the day the announcement was made. That tells us the pressure on PLEX prices doesn't come from demand (from someone buying them up, as you claim) but from supply. People are apparently not buying quite as many from CCP. It only takes a small change in that number, over time, to start sending prices upward.
Your conspiracy theory is founded on a complete lack of understanding of basic economics. I'm not surprised you created a new alt to post this nonsense.
|
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29393
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:23:24 -
[130] - Quote
I am curoius how fluidity will effect the price and speed of price changes.
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1692
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:36:24 -
[131] - Quote
It's funny how some people are already starting a lynch mob. It's certainly possible that one or more CSM members have relayed some insider info they shouldn't have, but it's also quite possible they haven't. So far we do not know if any insider trading has happened or if the CSM was involved, so I suggest to not talk of a "insider trading fiasco" and lynch the CSM just yet. We should let IA figure this out first before we jump to conclusions and randomly blame people without any solid information on the matter. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
157
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:37:03 -
[132] - Quote
mkint wrote:Kalemi wrote:If there's any foul play there should be a pretty easy to follow paper trail. The questions are 1) If CCP would actually admit to it, 2) what kind of punishment should be passed out. 1) CCP has reason to keep it under wraps, as discrediting the CSM would be bad publicity. As far as I can tell, it sounds like most of the devs don't particularly like the CSM anyway and every CSM basically has to start over every year. This might just neuter the CSM, especially since all the influence they might have is pretty unofficial anyway. 2) a 20% price jump in this kind of price-vs-volume item wouldn't be easy for just 1 person to manipulate. They would have to involve an alliance financing it. So who gets punished? If the CSM member didn't care anyway and was just trolling before quitting the game, there isn't really any way to punish them. So, how far down the hill does the sh*t roll? On the other hand, if it was a CCPer, would we even hear about it? They might be able to hide their involvement better, and there might be even MORE incentive to keep it under wraps. Unless there's some public confession by the perpetrator (assuming it was an employee), we'll probably never even hear about it. The big thing that concerns me about this conspiracy is the trade volume. Even though the price jump was big, the volume stayed pretty normal, though I'm not good enough with these kinds of graphs to know if that would still be within the expected behavior in the case of a leak. CCP would never own up to it. They have gotten unbelievably greedy. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
530
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:40:36 -
[133] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:mkint wrote:Kalemi wrote:If there's any foul play there should be a pretty easy to follow paper trail. The questions are 1) If CCP would actually admit to it, 2) what kind of punishment should be passed out. 1) CCP has reason to keep it under wraps, as discrediting the CSM would be bad publicity. As far as I can tell, it sounds like most of the devs don't particularly like the CSM anyway and every CSM basically has to start over every year. This might just neuter the CSM, especially since all the influence they might have is pretty unofficial anyway. 2) a 20% price jump in this kind of price-vs-volume item wouldn't be easy for just 1 person to manipulate. They would have to involve an alliance financing it. So who gets punished? If the CSM member didn't care anyway and was just trolling before quitting the game, there isn't really any way to punish them. So, how far down the hill does the sh*t roll? On the other hand, if it was a CCPer, would we even hear about it? They might be able to hide their involvement better, and there might be even MORE incentive to keep it under wraps. Unless there's some public confession by the perpetrator (assuming it was an employee), we'll probably never even hear about it. The big thing that concerns me about this conspiracy is the trade volume. Even though the price jump was big, the volume stayed pretty normal, though I'm not good enough with these kinds of graphs to know if that would still be within the expected behavior in the case of a leak. CCP would never own up to it. They have gotten unbelievably greedy.
they cant be too greedy if they're begging for people to pay to play the game. F2P has failed |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
158
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:52:00 -
[134] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:mkint wrote:Kalemi wrote:If there's any foul play there should be a pretty easy to follow paper trail. The questions are 1) If CCP would actually admit to it, 2) what kind of punishment should be passed out. 1) CCP has reason to keep it under wraps, as discrediting the CSM would be bad publicity. As far as I can tell, it sounds like most of the devs don't particularly like the CSM anyway and every CSM basically has to start over every year. This might just neuter the CSM, especially since all the influence they might have is pretty unofficial anyway. 2) a 20% price jump in this kind of price-vs-volume item wouldn't be easy for just 1 person to manipulate. They would have to involve an alliance financing it. So who gets punished? If the CSM member didn't care anyway and was just trolling before quitting the game, there isn't really any way to punish them. So, how far down the hill does the sh*t roll? On the other hand, if it was a CCPer, would we even hear about it? They might be able to hide their involvement better, and there might be even MORE incentive to keep it under wraps. Unless there's some public confession by the perpetrator (assuming it was an employee), we'll probably never even hear about it. The big thing that concerns me about this conspiracy is the trade volume. Even though the price jump was big, the volume stayed pretty normal, though I'm not good enough with these kinds of graphs to know if that would still be within the expected behavior in the case of a leak. CCP would never own up to it. They have gotten unbelievably greedy. they cant be too greedy if they're begging for people to pay to play the game. F2P has failed They have to beg people to play the game BECAUSE they are greedy. They have been so focused on using eves profits to create failed games and create more micro transactions that now eve has nothing to show for itself. |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
67
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 16:53:54 -
[135] - Quote
for the record all it takes for PLEX prices to go up is for the players to set the price of them up
they can set the price of the sale value up and they can set the price of the buy value up this can be done in the place order interface system
they can also buy plex up, while their value is up , to validate the increase up value of the plex value for sale
they can also sell plex up, if a player wants to buy them, which , after he buys them increase the up value of the plex.
2. CCPs has similar parts than other system however, due to their unique nature it requires a defined armount of integration from other systems to work on their system and with their system
one simply cannot expect to make suggestion or suggestions hoping that it will work exactly as they mentioned without verifying the facts. fact-finding tools are important for such design or suggestions to omit the results from those facts for future implementation of design may lead to similar results where new data need to be analysed from survey because the previous facts were not included in the design / analysis and it may take more resources to get accurate data.
(as the system grows and expand, so will the ... not finished)
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Zanthar Eos
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 17:12:40 -
[136] - Quote
Baseless claims are my favorite way to ruin things in the game! |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
574
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 17:16:32 -
[137] - Quote
Zanthar Eos wrote:Baseless claims are my favorite way to ruin things in the game!
no m8, ccp is already ruining it. we just help it |
Janeos
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
88
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 17:18:20 -
[138] - Quote
They need to add a tinfoil hat to the nuPLEX store. |
Grognard Commissar
Splinter Cell Operations inPanic
26
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 17:23:53 -
[139] - Quote
zomg, insider trading! |
Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
945
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 17:42:56 -
[140] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Girka Kring wrote:Recently PLEX prices went up by 20%. And PLEX volume didn't change at all from the normal pattern until the day the announcement was made. That tells us the pressure on PLEX prices doesn't come from demand (from someone buying them up, as you claim) but from supply. People are apparently not buying quite as many from CCP. It only takes a small change in that number, over time, to start sending prices upward. Your conspiracy theory is founded on a complete lack of understanding of basic economics. I'm not surprised you created a new alt to post this nonsense.
PLEX are already spread thin....it would a change of about 5% in supply to make the price go crazy.
The OP didnt explain why extractors also rose at the same time while injectors crashed either. Or how it all tied into the Rorqual changes which hit on the same day.
Fluffy Bunny Pic!
|
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10619
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 17:48:24 -
[141] - Quote
Janeos wrote:They need to add a tinfoil hat to the nuPLEX store. I'd buy that for a dollar!
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Romulus XII
Syndicate Enterprise Northern Coalition.
5
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 19:09:45 -
[142] - Quote
First, correlation does not mean causation.
Second, although the price did increase, the volume didn't. One explanation could be that this is a supply side story (sellers) not demand (buyers). In other words, it wasn't mass buying that sparked the price increase but a weaker PLEX supply.
Regarding leaks in general, do they happen? Yes. Is the PLEX price increase caused by a leak? The graphs you linked aren't proof of it. |
Salvos Rhoska
2475
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 19:15:53 -
[143] - Quote
The circumstances are suspicious and severe enough to warrant investigation.
Furthermore, the AURUM wipe and PLEX fracturing in and of itself, is bizarre.
Why is that even happening?
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Lady Ayeipsia
Perkone Caldari State
1340
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 19:37:39 -
[144] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:The circumstances are suspicious and severe enough to warrant investigation.
Furthermore, the AURUM wipe and PLEX fracturing in and of itself, is bizarre.
Why is that even happening?
Why? Because it was confusing and redundant to have 2 forms of virtual currency that both cost money. Why not reduce this by making one currency?
Once you decide to make one currency, which do you keep? The more recognized one which is PLEX. Now you can't make every bit of apparel cost 1 PLEX or people would go crazy. Nor would you create a system that start a with fractions of a PLEX. So you make your PLEX into a larger unit which can be subdivided.
Makes sense to me. It makes even more sense of Nova/Dust come back with a better connected market. (aurum in dust was not the same as EVE which was a pain). |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
60111
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 20:27:54 -
[145] - Quote
I still don't understand why the OP thinks the CSM is behind this insider PLEX trading conspiracy.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
|
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 20:29:02 -
[146] - Quote
I've noticed that a lot of ppl are concerned with lack of change in PLEX volume over those 2 weeks that would correspond with the change in price. Therefore they come to a conclusion that the supply was lower and that caused the price increase.
It's funny cause every time they quote "economics 101" they kinda show that they have no idea what they are talking about. First check some basic supply & demand graphs. If the supply was lower, as you suggest, the prices would go higher but the volume wouldn't stay the same, it would decrease. The increase in prices by 20% with pretty much the same quantity of traded items means that there was both a decrease in supply and increase in demand for PLEX over those 2 weeks.
It's also pretty funny that most ppl who are 100% sure there was no manipulation are from Goonswarm Federation. Do you guys have something to hide?
I agree that currently we have only indirect , presumptive evidence and that we don't have tools needed to gather all the necessary data. But that doesn't mean we should just ignore the problem. What happened looks really suspicious and should be thoroughly investigated by CCP. |
Cearain
Plus 10 NV It Burns When I'm PvPing
1508
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 20:37:15 -
[147] - Quote
Since the microPlex will have a new use (direct use in aurum store) the value of plex should go up.
Moreover if csm knew ccp was going to delete huge amounts of aurum (all amounts less than 1000) that would also help the value of microPlex.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
532
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 21:00:03 -
[148] - Quote
the cheaters who knew about this change knew it was coming and were buying up plex.. just so they can rob the entire community blind and afford those uber trinkets like the next XL drilling platform.
its all been a con... Burn Jita, Burn Amarr. burn them all with fiyaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
|
Disclosed Desire
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 21:33:22 -
[149] - Quote
Why would they get rid of CSM now, it's been like this from the start but there is no incentive for anyone to stop.
CCP don't want to get rid of it - It's a relatively inexpensive marketing gimmick
CSM don't want to miss out on insider info + they get some small amount of influence. |
Cade Windstalker
1126
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 23:35:49 -
[150] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:I've noticed that a lot of ppl are concerned with lack of change in PLEX volume over those 2 weeks that would correspond with the change in price. Therefore they come to a conclusion that the supply was lower and that caused the price increase.
It's funny cause every time they quote "economics 101" they kinda show that they have no idea what they are talking about. First check some basic supply & demand graphs. If the supply was lower, as you suggest, the prices would go higher but the volume wouldn't stay the same, it would decrease. The increase in prices by 20% with pretty much the same quantity of traded items means that there was both a decrease in supply and increase in demand for PLEX over those 2 weeks.
It's also pretty funny that most ppl who are 100% sure there was no manipulation are from Goonswarm Federation. Do you guys have something to hide?
I agree that currently we have only indirect , presumptive evidence and that we don't have tools needed to gather all the necessary data. But that doesn't mean we should just ignore the problem. What happened looks really suspicious and should be thoroughly investigated by CCP.
You just went full conspiracy nut here...
First off, anyone saying that this was caused by a supply contraction is just as bad at econ as you are. As several people have pointed out the quantity traded hasn't really changed too much. That said, there's generally a lot more PLEX listed than there is selling, and the PLEX market tends to be pretty volatile around patch time.
Let me repeat that again. The PLEX market tends to be pretty volatile around patch time. It dropped *more than* 300b after Citadel in the span of time you're pointing at a *less than* 200b increase and going "OMG leaks!"
Also it's not just people from Goons saying this is idiotic, anyone with decent knowledge of econ or the Eve PLEX market is pointing at this thread and laughing their butt off.
What happened here is normal post-patch speculation and volatility. It's not suspicious, it's normal.
You have taken two vaguely time related events and drawn a completely spurious correlation between them.
Now can we all go back to raging about the 1000AUR cutoff limit in the appropriate thread? At least that's justified and a more productive use of time than this econ 101 snipe hunt. |
|
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2610
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 23:47:31 -
[151] - Quote
Friend, either you're closing your eyes To a situation you do not wish to acknowledge Or you are not aware of the caliber of disaster indicated By the presence of player goverment in your community . Well, ya got trouble, my friend, right here, I say, trouble right here in Eve verse. Why sure I'm a plex buyer player, Certainly mighty proud I say I'm always mighty proud to say it. I consider that the hours I spend In a ship in space are golden. Help you cultivate horse sense And a cool head and a keen eye. J'ever take and try to give An iron-clad kill to yourself From a three rail-gun shot? But just as I say, It takes judgement, brains, and maturity to kill In any level of sec in the game, I say that any boob can grief And shove a noob in a pod. And they call that sloth. The first big step on the road To the depths of deg-ra-Day-- I say, first, sprits from a teaspoon, Then long limb roes from a can. An' the next thing ya know, Your son is botting for isks In a pinch-back pod And list'nin to some big out-a-town Jaspet miner Hearin' him tell about those double your isks scammin'. Not a wholesome fair market contract sale, no! But a scam where they make you payGÇÖs up front! Like to see some golden ammo type Sittin' in a brand new Covert ops? Make your blood boil? Well, I should say. Now, friends, lemme tell you what I mean. Ya got one, two, three, four, five, six turrets in your high slots. Slots that mark the diff'rence Between a gentlemen and a bum, With a capital "B," And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for Plexl! And all week long your Eve Youth'll be ship spinnin away, I say your young men'll be ship spinnin! Ship spinnin away their noontime, suppertime, choretime too! Not gettin the ore in the hold, Never mind gittin' rats cleared or rat chains pulled Or the gate guarded or the goods to market. Never mind PI-ing' any water 'Til your parents are caught with the PI factories empty On a Saturday night and that's trouble, Oh, yes we got lots and lots a' trouble. I'm thinkin' of the kids in the Arum clothes, Shirt-tail young ones, peekin' in the Arum Storel window after school. Ya got trouble, folks, right here in Eve. Trouble with a capital "T" And that rhymes with "P" and that stands for plex!! Now, I know all you folks are the right kinda parents. I'm gonna be perfectly frank. Would ya like to know what kinda conversation goes On while they're loafin' around that Hall? They're tryin' out Quafe, tryin' out booster, Tryin' out nano paste like ship shooting Feinds! And braggin' all about How they're gonna cover up a tell-tale breath with Chiral Structures. One fine night, they leave the high sec station, Headin' for the camp at some low sec gate! Libertine men and Scarlet women! And Rag-time, shameless music That'll grab your son and your daughter With the arms of a jungle animal instinct! Mass-staria! Microtransactions! Friends, the idle brain is CCPGÇÖs playground!
Trouble, oh we got trouble, Right here in Eve! With a capital "T" That rhymes with "P" And that stands for Plex, That stands for plex. We've surely got trouble! Right here in Eve, Right here! Gotta figger out a way To keep the young ones moral after school! Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble...
Mothers of Eve Universe! Heed the warning before it's too late! Watch for the tell-tale sign of corruption! The moment your son leaves the house, Does he double warp core his poor fit ship ? Is there a Biomass stain on his index finger? A Pax Amarria hidden in the cargo gold? Is he starting to memorize jokes from The Mitanni? Are certain words creeping into his conversation? Words like 'alpha?" And 'golden ammo?" Well, if so my friends, Ya got trouble, Right here in Eve! With a capital "T" And that rhymes with "P" And that stands for Plex. We've surely got trouble! Right here in Eve! Remember Jita, True Null and the Golden Rule NRDS! Oh, we've got trouble. We're in terrible, terrible trouble. That game with the fifteen classes of ships is a devil's tool! Oh yes we got trouble, trouble, trouble! With a "T"! Gotta rhyme it with "P"! And that stands for Plex!!!
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1694
|
Posted - 2017.03.17 23:58:31 -
[152] - Quote
^ What the actual ****?! |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji.
2097
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 00:23:39 -
[153] - Quote
Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time.
But mostly up. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
318
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 00:58:34 -
[154] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time.
But mostly up.
They tend to float right around 1b for the past few years. Sometimes swinging as much as 300m either direction but not much more than that before the market corrects itself or ccp has a plex sale
Current prices are right about where I would expect them to be at this length of time after the last sale.
If anything the weird part is how stable the market has been between December and now. |
Jacques d'Orleans
3013
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 01:24:32 -
[155] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:I still don't understand why the OP thinks the CSM is behind this insider PLEX trading conspiracy.
DMC
Well, that happens if you don't take your medication.(the OP of course)
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
|
Sere O'Asis
Summer Evenings and Autumn Skies
155
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 03:26:23 -
[156] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:^ What the actual ****?!
It's verse set to The Music Man, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI, I believe. Very clever. |
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
1148
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 04:34:35 -
[157] - Quote
Quote:CSM is corrupted and should be removed/punished.
Removal of these jokers would fix corruption part(if there is any) they are 90% PR and 10% CCP idea cage that work for self interest of group one represents.
If every part of this sandbox is not equally represented than whats the point of having one.
"You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear"n++
|
Maximus Andendare
The Scope Gallente Federation
926
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 06:52:01 -
[158] - Quote
Yeah there really should be an investigation into this. The timing is too convenient. If they look into it and it's nothing, fine. But honestly there should at least be a check.
Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! <<
|
Salvos Rhoska
2480
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 07:22:15 -
[159] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:The circumstances are suspicious and severe enough to warrant investigation.
Furthermore, the AURUM wipe and PLEX fracturing in and of itself, is bizarre.
Why is that even happening? Why? Because it was confusing and redundant to have 2 forms of virtual currency that both cost money. Why not reduce this by making one currency? Once you decide to make one currency, which do you keep? The more recognized one which is PLEX. Now you can't make every bit of apparel cost 1 PLEX or people would go crazy. Nor would you create a system that start a with fractions of a PLEX. So you make your PLEX into a larger unit which can be subdivided. Makes sense to me. It makes even more sense of Nova/Dust come back with a better connected market. (aurum in dust was not the same as EVE which was a pain).
Fair enough. Good answer.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
411
|
Posted - 2017.03.18 09:24:09 -
[160] - Quote
drain the csm swamp, and ccp swamps while we're at it
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
|
|
Nate Hill
Rocket No. 9
54
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 02:50:48 -
[161] - Quote
Normal players always get rid of CSM which is always under the charge of nullsec alliances. Who will ever think CSM can represent most players? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1575
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 03:22:35 -
[162] - Quote
Nate Hill wrote:Normal players always get rid of CSM which is always under the charge of nullsec alliances. Who will ever think CSM can represent most players? It doesn't matter who it is 'under the charge' of.
The CSM doesn't make any decisions. They give feedback on CCP ideas.
So even if the majority of CSM members are nullsec, when changes are proposed to things like industry, etc. those members feedback isn't as valuable as members like Steve Ronuken, Mike Azariah, etc. (or even some of the nullsec members that have knowledge of those areas).
But, as usual, Carebears will whine.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Nate Hill
Rocket No. 9
54
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 04:13:20 -
[163] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Nate Hill wrote:Normal players always get rid of CSM which is always under the charge of nullsec alliances. Who will ever think CSM can represent most players? It doesn't matter who it is 'under the charge' of. The CSM doesn't make any decisions. They give feedback on CCP ideas. So even if the majority of CSM members are nullsec, when changes are proposed to things like industry, etc. those members feedback isn't as valuable as members like Steve Ronuken, Mike Azariah, etc. (or even some of the nullsec members that have knowledge of those areas). But, as usual, Carebears will whine.
It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
PVP can attract less newbies than PVE does due to its complexity. EVE doesn't give new players enough time to prepare. It's already over before newbies enjoy.
CCP should add more highsec PVE to make new players stay enough time. CCP should send questionnaires to all newbies who quited EVE to check.
CSM did neglect part of players and despised them just like you.
Carebears pay the same. I don't think playing different game contents will make ones decent, nobile or degrading. It's all base on what kind of people you are.
|
Nate Hill
Rocket No. 9
54
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 04:14:43 -
[164] - Quote
DELETE EXTRA |
Salvos Rhoska
2486
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 06:43:28 -
[165] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:But, as usual, Carebears will whine.
You mean Nullbears.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1702
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 08:45:02 -
[166] - Quote
Nate Hill wrote:It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
Then Highsec dwellers should get off their bloody asses and vote! How hard can it be to outnumber a couple thousand nullsec voters? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1576
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 08:48:42 -
[167] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:But, as usual, Carebears will whine. You mean Nullbears. Yet again, your intelligence falls short. Nullbears are carebears. It's right in the name.
I said the same to you before. Maybe this time you'll comprehend.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Big Lynx
8081
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 10:41:28 -
[168] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:It's funny how some people are already starting a lynch mob. It's certainly possible that one or more CSM members have relayed some insider info they shouldn't have, but it's also quite possible they haven't. So far we do not know if any insider trading has happened or if the CSM was involved, so I suggest to not talk of a "insider trading fiasco" and lynch the CSM just yet. We should let IA figure this out first before we jump to conclusions and randomly blame people without any solid information on the matter.
I really like this post. However, it has no place in eve discussions. Too mature, too factual, too much common sense of real-life. You are out! shame on you. Reported! |
Salvos Rhoska
2488
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 10:47:31 -
[169] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:But, as usual, Carebears will whine. You mean Nullbears. Yet again, your intelligence falls short. Nullbears are carebears. It's right in the name. I said the same to you before. Maybe this time you'll comprehend.
Its pretty clear from the contexts you habitually use it, that you actually mean HS based carebears.
Ive never seen you even once use it in context of nullbears.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1576
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 10:53:35 -
[170] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:But, as usual, Carebears will whine. You mean Nullbears. Yet again, your intelligence falls short. Nullbears are carebears. It's right in the name. I said the same to you before. Maybe this time you'll comprehend. Its pretty clear from the contexts you habitually use it, that you actually mean HS based carebears. Ive never seen you even once use it in context of nullbears. Nullbears are carebears. No different. Being a carebear isn't based on where a person plays, it's based on how how they think. There are carebears in all security areas of space and non-carebears in them all as well.
So once again for the dummy (that's you Salvos), a nullbear is every bit just as much of a carebear as anyone else. There's no need to refer to them differently.
Maybe the third time, you comprehend.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
|
Salvos Rhoska
2488
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 11:04:35 -
[171] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:But, as usual, Carebears will whine. You mean Nullbears. Yet again, your intelligence falls short. Nullbears are carebears. It's right in the name. I said the same to you before. Maybe this time you'll comprehend. Its pretty clear from the contexts you habitually use it, that you actually mean HS based carebears. Ive never seen you even once use it in context of nullbears. Nullbears are carebears. No different. Being a carebear isn't based on where a person plays, it's based on how how they think. There are carebears in all security areas of space and non-carebears in them all as well. So once again for the dummy (that's you Salvos), a nullbear is every bit just as much of a carebear as anyone else. There's no need to refer to them differently. Maybe the third time, you comprehend.
And yet you only ever show up to use it in a HS context.
Show me some posts where you have addressed Nullbear interests using this term?
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
41
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 11:41:33 -
[172] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Nate Hill wrote:Normal players always get rid of CSM which is always under the charge of nullsec alliances. Who will ever think CSM can represent most players? It doesn't matter who it is 'under the charge' of. The CSM doesn't make any decisions. They give feedback on CCP ideas. So even if the majority of CSM members are nullsec, when changes are proposed to things like industry, etc. those members feedback isn't as valuable as members like Steve Ronuken, Mike Azariah, etc. (or even some of the nullsec members that have knowledge of those areas). But, as usual, Carebears will whine.
From my experience it is mostly the Nullsec dwellers who rush to the forums in troves after being instructed to do so by their leaders when things don't go their way.
Keep drinking that Koolaide. |
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 11:45:11 -
[173] - Quote
Mister Holder wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Nate Hill wrote:Normal players always get rid of CSM which is always under the charge of nullsec alliances. Who will ever think CSM can represent most players? It doesn't matter who it is 'under the charge' of. The CSM doesn't make any decisions. They give feedback on CCP ideas. So even if the majority of CSM members are nullsec, when changes are proposed to things like industry, etc. those members feedback isn't as valuable as members like Steve Ronuken, Mike Azariah, etc. (or even some of the nullsec members that have knowledge of those areas). But, as usual, Carebears will whine. From my experience it is mostly the Nullsec dwellers who rush to the forums in troves after being instructed to do so by their leaders when things don't go their way. Keep drinking that Koolaide.
I agree entirely, which demonstrates the Shae alts function on this forum.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1577
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 11:48:01 -
[174] - Quote
Mister Holder wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Nate Hill wrote:Normal players always get rid of CSM which is always under the charge of nullsec alliances. Who will ever think CSM can represent most players? It doesn't matter who it is 'under the charge' of. The CSM doesn't make any decisions. They give feedback on CCP ideas. So even if the majority of CSM members are nullsec, when changes are proposed to things like industry, etc. those members feedback isn't as valuable as members like Steve Ronuken, Mike Azariah, etc. (or even some of the nullsec members that have knowledge of those areas). But, as usual, Carebears will whine. From my experience it is mostly the Nullsec dwellers who rush to the forums in troves after being instructed to do so by their leaders when things don't go their way. Keep drinking that Koolaide. And? What does that have to do with the CSM?
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Jacques d'Orleans
3021
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 11:53:18 -
[175] - Quote
This thread easily wins the prize for the best turd sandwich in March 2017.
Have you seen Robocop? Many people don't know that it's actually a documentary.
|
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 11:57:04 -
[176] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:And? What does that have to do with the CSM? I think the CSM and Nullbear connection has been demonstrated quite a few times.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1577
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 12:07:45 -
[177] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:And? What does that have to do with the CSM? I think the CSM and Nullbear connection has been demonstrated quite a few times. Which also has absolutely zero relationship to what Mister Holder wrote.
Nullbears running to the forum is irrelevant in terms of the CSM.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 12:09:34 -
[178] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:And? What does that have to do with the CSM? I think the CSM and Nullbear connection has been demonstrated quite a few times. Which also has absolutely zero relationship to what Mister Holder wrote. Nullbears running to the forum is irrelevant in terms of the CSM.
Its relevant interms of your function and posting on this forum, and on what you choose to do so, and how.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Vigirr
299
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 12:15:57 -
[179] - Quote
Most nullseccers are carebears + CSM has many null sec members = CSM caters to nullbears |
Akane Togenada
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
74
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 12:22:30 -
[180] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Nate Hill wrote:It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
Then Highsec dwellers should get off their bloody asses and vote! How hard can it be to outnumber a couple thousand nullsec voters?
Although this is correct it doesn-¦t help them to vote unless they also get their people into the CSM. Otherwise it's just as in some real-life elections where you get to choose between a giant douche or a turd sandwich. |
|
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 12:25:03 -
[181] - Quote
Vigirr wrote:Most nullseccers are carebears + CSM has many null sec members = CSM caters to nullbears Nailed it.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
460
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 12:31:46 -
[182] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Nate Hill wrote:It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
Then Highsec dwellers should get off their bloody asses and vote! How hard can it be to outnumber a couple thousand nullsec voters?
Heard of block voting? Null alliances can strongly encourage their members to vote for the preferred candidate. Just like real life politics it has become a game of backscratching between govt and the big powers.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
29529
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 13:04:28 -
[183] - Quote
Why would players vote if they are not interested in CSM or dont think CSM is really able to influence CCP minds about anything more than few favors for null blocks? And add to that that they dont know the candidates and dont want to learn anything about them. They are here mainly to shoot missiles at someone or something, to explore the depths of space, not make politics. -»\_(pâä)_/-»
Every part of a game helps to tell a story =ƒôò
Where is Angry CONCORD guy when you need him
Osprey =ƒÜÇ
GëíGïüGëí GÖÑ
|
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 13:47:58 -
[184] - Quote
After election, there is no transparency.
We have no idea what CSM are saying, to whom.
There is no accountability to the EVE player base.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
dirge Azari
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 14:03:58 -
[185] - Quote
The only way to make CSM work is to record it and upload it to youtube. Give it a 6 month delay to cover sensitive stuff.
But right now the CSM is corrupt as hell. (Ive had this confirmed by a former CSM member)
Other than a few exceptions (cloaked ships decloaking each other) the CSM has done jack **** for the player base.
Even at the best of times its nothing more than an excuse to ignore the wider comunity because "the CSM like it"
At worst its a tool for power blocs to gain insider knowlage |
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 14:47:38 -
[186] - Quote
dirge Azari wrote:The only way to make CSM work is to record it and upload it to youtube. Give it a 6 month delay to cover sensitive stuff.
But right now the CSM is corrupt as hell. (Ive had this confirmed by a former CSM member)
Other than a few exceptions (cloaked ships decloaking each other) the CSM has done jack **** for the player base.
Even at the best of times its nothing more than an excuse to ignore the wider comunity because "the CSM like it"
At worst its a tool for power blocs to gain insider knowlage
old school son. There always benefit a huge corporation in this game. Always bin always is. Like the real world. $$$
All those "new" stuff broke the game even more. At the end. We know what`s going to happen. Yeah we can not point any fingers.
The question is how corrupt are those CSM members and some one is leaking info or selling. Not sure what. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1706
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 14:48:01 -
[187] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Nate Hill wrote:It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
Then Highsec dwellers should get off their bloody asses and vote! How hard can it be to outnumber a couple thousand nullsec voters? Heard of block voting? Null alliances can strongly encourage their members to vote for the preferred candidate. Just like real life politics it has become a game of backscratching between govt and the big powers. I suggest having a look at how exactly the votes are counted for Eve. Due to the system they use (google "Wright System" for details) it is quite difficult to have a couple thousand people cast ballots, neither of which ends up contributing to a candidate getting elected.
And even if Highsec somehow managed to coordinate in such a way that their ballots really end up not counting, then at least they would make the blocvote worth less, just by casting a ballot at all.
The mere fact that nullsec blocvotes are still so effective shows, that they make up a significant number of all voters, or in other terms, that the others aren't casting enough votes.
Now, I can imagine why that is - reading through 60-something candidates posts to find out who to fill your ballot with takes effort. More effort than not voting or just voting for a single candidate (which in most cases amounts to the same as not voting at all), and complaining afterwards that you aren't being represented. But if players can't even muster the effort of telling CCP who they want to see as their representative, then it's not their place to complain afterwards in my book. |
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 15:21:21 -
[188] - Quote
There is no way of knowing who is what.
For all we know, 99% of the HS candidates, could be infact NS alts.
Making matters worse, there is no transparency on their actions after election, nor oversight, or culpability.
Even an initial HS CSM, can be subverted to NS interests, post election, and again, we have no means of knowing if it happened.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
598
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 15:30:12 -
[189] - Quote
HELLO BOIZ!
i'm a CSM ALT legit! WTS reserved infos PM ME! today huge discount ~50% depending if you are a hot grill or not
jk pls no ban
|
Salvos Rhoska
2489
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 15:38:24 -
[190] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:HELLO BOIZ! i'm a CSM ALT legit! WTS reserved infos PM ME! today huge discount ~50% depending if you are a hot grill or not jk pls no ban Atleast you are honest.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
|
Loutro Fift
The Killer Cockatoos Initiative Mercenaries
51
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 15:57:37 -
[191] - Quote
Seriously?
Conspiracy theories about a game?
Volatility,,,it's a thing. Look it up.
Play the bloody game and shuddap. |
Salvos Rhoska
2491
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 16:04:11 -
[192] - Quote
Loutro Fift wrote:Seriously?.
Tell me honestly. How many people in your life, including politicians, do you trust?
And how many in EVE?
Remember one of the Golden Rules? "TRUST NO ONE"
That includes CSM.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
599
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 16:44:42 -
[193] - Quote
Loutro Fift wrote:Seriously?
Conspiracy theories about a game?
Volatility,,,it's a thing. Look it up.
Play the bloody game and shuddap.
cuz plotting against each other on the forum is not playing the game lmao the meta game of eve is actually NEVER UNDOCK and keep blabbering on the FORUM LEGIT |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3223
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 16:51:04 -
[194] - Quote
Akane Togenada wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Nate Hill wrote:It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
Then Highsec dwellers should get off their bloody asses and vote! How hard can it be to outnumber a couple thousand nullsec voters? Although this is correct it doesn-¦t help them to vote unless they also get their people into the CSM. Otherwise it's just as in some real-life elections where you get to choose between a giant douche or a turd sandwich.
If you see no candidate worthy of your vote, present yourself. At least you should be worthy of your own vote right? |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
599
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 17:02:21 -
[195] - Quote
or you can join goons... and be told to who vote for |
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
461
|
Posted - 2017.03.19 17:11:08 -
[196] - Quote
Soel Reit wrote:or you can join goons... and be told to who vote for
It's less effort than reading through 60 candidates at least. Maybe politics in a game gives an advantage to the people who take the game the most seriously, at the cost of those more relaxed players. You could argue this is how it should be, but it creates a closed culture, an echo chamber.
Eve is an echo chamber, a safe space.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
Atomic Virulent
Dark Matter Industrial
185
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 03:42:43 -
[197] - Quote
CCP involved in giving their buds a heads up?
Naaahhh..
~ ~ ~ N E V E R ~ ~ ~ |
Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
66
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 06:28:25 -
[198] - Quote
CCP are such an incredibly juvenile company. It is hard to believe that they have survived in the real world of commerce and law for as long as they have.
At the core of the failure of CCP rto shake it's reputation for bad character ios the inability of senior staff at CCP to comprehend the difference between in game role playing and the real world. Even in this thread, you will find numerous appeals to the idea that "Eve is all about scamming!", offered in defence of CCP leadership conduct.
With respect, that is about as sensible as excusing a movie director for mass murder because he is making a war film.
But the point is well made. It is a very real thing. CCP staff really cannot comprehend the difference between Eev and the real world. One pities them. It can't be easy. The real world is a big place. Eve is tiny.
It must be even worse for all the normal, adult workers at CCP. They know what goes on. They have to work with the petulant children. They know that they are second class citizens next to the protected children who destroy the firm's commercial potential for their teenager lols.
The owners will have real problems trying to sell this company, as it stands. The folks doing the due diligence (hi there!!) are going to see that the company is polluted by a lack of integrity and a real lack of maturity in the leadership. That always come from the same place: friends of the original owners. The owner can't get rid of them (might even owe them money), and doesn't want to. When the owner realizes that these "friends" are killing the enterprise, they try to sell.
Oh look! The owners of CCP are trying to sell.
Heads up: nobody wants your weird and corrupt little company as it stands. And if you cleaned house and put decent adults in charge, guess what?
You wouldn't be so keen to sell it.
Would ya?
Because it wouldn't be broken.
The only thing that fixes Eve is a structured buyout, with all the current shareholders displaced. That probably can't happen, because the problem people have cemented their rights, because, haha, they saw what was coming. A long time ago.
Still, it is fascinating stuff. Popcorn at the ready, I look forward to seeing how it all transpires. |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
627
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 06:50:40 -
[199] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote:CCP are such an incredibly juvenile company. It is hard to believe that they have survived in the real world of commerce and law for as long as they have.
At the core of the failure of CCP rto shake it's reputation for bad character ios the inability of senior staff at CCP to comprehend the difference between in game role playing and the real world. Even in this thread, you will find numerous appeals to the idea that "Eve is all about scamming!", offered in defence of CCP leadership conduct.
With respect, that is about as sensible as excusing a movie director for mass murder because he is making a war film.
But the point is well made. It is a very real thing. CCP staff really cannot comprehend the difference between Eev and the real world. One pities them. It can't be easy. The real world is a big place. Eve is tiny.
It must be even worse for all the normal, adult workers at CCP. They know what goes on. They have to work with the petulant children. They know that they are second class citizens next to the protected children who destroy the firm's commercial potential for their teenager lols.
The owners will have real problems trying to sell this company, as it stands. The folks doing the due diligence (hi there!!) are going to see that the company is polluted by a lack of integrity and a real lack of maturity in the leadership. That always come from the same place: friends of the original owners. The owner can't get rid of them (might even owe them money), and doesn't want to. When the owner realizes that these "friends" are killing the enterprise, they try to sell.
Oh look! The owners of CCP are trying to sell.
Heads up: nobody wants your weird and corrupt little company as it stands. And if you cleaned house and put decent adults in charge, guess what?
You wouldn't be so keen to sell it.
Would ya?
Because it wouldn't be broken.
The only thing that fixes Eve is a structured buyout, with all the current shareholders displaced. That probably can't happen, because the problem people have cemented their rights, because, haha, they saw what was coming. A long time ago.
Still, it is fascinating stuff. Popcorn at the ready, I look forward to seeing how it all transpires. HOLY that's a very nice post gg
Quote:With respect, that is about as sensible as excusing a movie director for mass murder because he is making a war film. this one is awesome why can't i like that post more than 1 time??????????????
#CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease #CCPlease |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 12:09:10 -
[200] - Quote
I was going to vote for a pilot to be a new CSM member, however, he took on himself or others of his potential officer / secretary to remove some intellectual property I was working on for security.
So, it is not technically feasible.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
539
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 15:16:52 -
[201] - Quote
CCP cant ever do things right because
"programming is too hard" now out of all excuses once you hear a game company say this.. why in the hell should someone invest in it.
you are ruined ccp, totally ruined, |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 15:49:54 -
[202] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP cant ever do things right because
"programming is too hard" now out of all excuses once you hear a game company say this.. why in the hell should someone invest in it.
you are ruined ccp, totally ruined, Where does it say that, that CCP said "programming is too hard" ?
Aside from you saying that they said that above, which is obvious.
Did they mean it's too hard for others? Since they obviously do programming. Besides, when people like a program, there is no code that makes them like it. They decide for themselves. and no-one can program them to do that.
If I do program for 20 years, and God knows I do, and no judge or not enough judge, or the people, want to protect my work in time, that is the people's decision. Why shouldn't I integrate it , take it into account, fear mongering is not exactly legal either. Hiding it certainly is not going to help.
Additionally , why not start a new thread about this (the ruined, selling, trying to sell the cie) since this is supposed to be a thread about getting rid of the CSM and a recent PLEX insider trading fiasco? ??
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
539
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 16:11:05 -
[203] - Quote
Veine Miromme wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:CCP cant ever do things right because
"programming is too hard" now out of all excuses once you hear a game company say this.. why in the hell should someone invest in it.
you are ruined ccp, totally ruined, Where does it say that, that CCP said "programming is too hard" ? Aside from you saying that they said that above, which is obvious. Did they mean it's too hard for others? Since they obviously do programming. Besides, when people like a program, there is no code that makes them like it. They decide for themselves. and no-one can program them to do that. If I do program for 20 years, and God knows I do, and no judge or not enough judge, or the people, want to protect my work in time, that is the people's decision. Why shouldn't I integrate it , take it into account, fear mongering is not exactly legal either. Hiding it certainly is not going to help. Additionally , why not start a new thread about this (the ruined, selling, trying to sell the cie) since this is supposed to be a thread about getting rid of the CSM and a recent PLEX insider trading fiasco? ??
they said that when it came to walking in stations, dust, and a host of other things. fail, fail, and more fail is ccp's legacy can only keep the hype going so long before reality sets in and folks who try it , catch onto the cash grab attempt. |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2017.03.21 16:46:41 -
[204] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote: they said that when it came to walking in stations, dust, and a host of other things. fail, fail, and more fail is ccp's legacy can only keep the hype going so long before reality sets in and folks who try it , catch onto the cash grab attempt.
I think it's more a matter of the hardware running the program than the actual programming.
However, 1. They would have to resell the programming that isn't used, which is much easier said than done since most paid programming is only done on written contracts with specific offers to pay before the start of the coding or even the analysis phase of the program.
2. It does take more engineering or analysis to design programs that take into account lower hardware requirements. Most newer program just rely on newer hardware and make it impossible to work on lower-end systems.
3. How do you suggest to pay ? It seems the hype may be more to be hyped against it than for it.
If hype is reality than how do you describe reality which is made not to be out of hype to cover the hype behind it?
4. They do have legacy code. They care for it themselves at least in part, however, I know very little of their corporate structure and system. The only info that I know is not applied to the actual corporate players / participants. The only names that I have from the published into are not people I do contract with except as client. All the design I did was for my own use and no other companies ever paid me for it.
As soon as I even got an offer for a house or another offer for security, I was met with charges seeking seizure and forfeiture. Hardly the kind of condition good for my family in any generations. I might as well move to a country offering volunteer work or register in a slave labour program.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2621
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 00:46:08 -
[205] - Quote
OK, it is a slow day and I feel the need to post some observations about CCP and Eve. I do this as a long time player, a three time CSM member and the head of a dormant alliance with a catchy name! I also am a life time software engineer with some graphics cred. So here goes.
1. Eve began as a horrible piece of code to implement a pretty lame game.
2. Eve grew to be a much larger piece of horrible code but a game based on some interesting ideas. (don't get me wrong, there is some solid engineering in Eve these days!)
3. CCP has made efforts to make it less horrible code and as a result there are some things basically turned off or never likely to work correctly.
4. Eve has some continuity gaps in terms of game design and focus. There have been at least three waves of folks that I'm aware of that were the core of CCP when it came to driving Eve.
5. CCP has shown some ADD in terms of other projects. From a dead vampire game, Dust, partly finished walking in stations that leaves us with the captain's cell (highest ever resource utilization ever achieved by a single player - multiplayer game!) or Greed is Good. CCP can be scattered and it has cost it's core product. Eve. Those wasted resources could have been used to make Eve much nicer.
6. At its core Eve is the ultimate sandbox and a true player driven economy. It is this fact that keeps Eve alive but also the thing that will limit the actual size of Eve.
7. CCP clearly continues to struggle to find that thing that will take Eve to that next level whatever that means. So we FTP, microtransactions, Plexes and other experiments to ultimately boost CCP's bottom line.
8. CCP has a horrible history of completing whatever its new shiny is. Walking in stations, dead, moon mining revamp. dead, exploration and tourism as an Eve feature, dead, smuggling as an Eve feature, dead, major story line development based on player actions, dead, truly dynamic player driven actions that change Eve fundamentals like system security, dead, faction warfare, on life support, in game browser, dead twice, true ship personaliztion, dead... the list goes on. Take some time and really take a tour of the "verse" and you find tons of content left to rot. A lot of work went into things that never got developed or used.
9. The CSM was formed during a different time in CCP by folks that sadly are no longer involved. So the function of the CSM has changed. They really have been changed from watch-guards to bad idea faeries. But the presence of the CSM is one of the things that make Eve unique.
The players could change the nature of the CSM if they cared enough, but in the end they don't. In fact the number of Eve pod pilots that care enough to get involved in trying to bring about real changes to Eve fundamentals is small. That fact is sometimes hard to remember when posting a masterpiece of logical argument here in the forums. The few folks that are willing to commit the effort are pretty easy to spot in the game and generally well known.
10. The real way to create something different in Eve lies in some basics of human nature. Influence enough folks to support your ideas and you have a chance to make a change. We have some real examples of folks that have that skill set and SOV maps reflect the results. I've found my personal abilities and commitments probably peak at around 300 pod pilots or so paying some attention to what I'd come up with over longer periods of time and just enough for short periods of time to be elected to the CSM. I am in awe of folks that pull together the big alliances.
11. Finally I don't think Eve could have come from anywhere other than Iceland. CCP REALLY likes the basically enabling psychopaths shoot a stranger in the face element of Eve. It is the inner Viking I think. Unless CCP sees an opportunity to dramatically increase revenues by eliminating that cold lack of morals framework that shapes the verse that will stay baked in. Also remember if they were to become convinced to change the game so fundamentally they would need to do it in a way to not shoot themselves in the foot by alienating the cash flow they get now from folks that like that lack of a moral framework. In many ways it is that Eve lets out the worst of an individual that is core to many folks fondness of the game.
So what does that mean? Well if you want Eve to become another game than Eve is today (for example more single player high se PVE) I don't think you'll ever get it because there are too many people that seem to like it as is. And so far no one has come up with a plan to remove the dark heart and keep the patient alive.
Another observation. Eve is played at all manner of levels. I am playing one now! I am bloviating on the Eve forums. This is an element of Eve that has many fans! Eve gives a person a chance to face an infinite set of challenges based on how much they want to put into it on more levels and in more ways than any game short of real life has offered.
Does Eve have warts. Well, yes it does. Would my perfect Eve be different? Well, yes I'd have walking in stations, the pleasure hubs back, comets, smuggling, aliens, more high sec PVE, a framework to create a true player designed mission and a craft system that let me invent new classes of ships much like T3 but more. Would it be better? I have no idea. Is there enough.challenges in Eve to keep me coming back? Going on 12 years would say it looks like it does.
I'm happy a group of Icelandic Vikings decided to make a space game. Sometimes they do things that make me grumpy but I think that's just how they roll. So for now I choose to keep trying to find that way to do better than some other folks in a way that lets me sleep at night! |
Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
72
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 04:23:49 -
[206] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote: lots of great and sensible things
Totally loving the management meta. Eve is worth subscription just to watch it struggle and fail on its own terms. You can't lose betting on CCP to fail. If they fail, you win. If they don't fail, Eve is getting better and so you win as a customer.
This is the secret key to winning Eve. We are basically paying for hope, or the comforting certainty of there being none. Either is a good deal for a few bucks a month.
Anyway, the owners of CCP declared open season on their current leadership by putting the whole shebang on the market. That's what you get, when you tell all that world that your folks are not interesting to you anymore.
That the work your folks do doesn't grab your attention like it used to do.
As customers, we are legitimate stakeholders in this enterprise model, and ought to have a voice about that, beyond simply paying or not paying.
Personally, I like the artwork. I think it has immense IP value, which is not to say that this equity wont get pissed up against a wall, left to die of exposure on the Icelandic Steppe, or otherwise ignored and forgotten by morons.
The lore is also good, or rather it was at one time.
Many parts of the customer service are also good. There are lots of good people working at CCP. The art directors carry the bag for the firm, however. Eve looks great, and always has. It's a big deal. So I think they are the only folks you would consider keeping, or at least, not opening their roles to market competition.You end up keeping heaps of folks when you restructure a bought firm, but you open up most jobs to the market to sort the wheat from the chaff.
In the end, very few folks make up the real intellectual potential and future equity in even a large firm. The folks at CCP who draw the pictures, and the story tellers they like, their intellectual friends who develop lore, those folks and their skill sets, and their temperament, seem to be the gold in CCP. They are why you would buy the rest of the firm.
I think that is borne out by the revenues and subscription model, too. CCP are basically a publishing house of theme art, like a comic book franchise.
As for the code and game mechanics......
Minesweeper and fleet battles defined by their rarity and lag.
It is like watching a desperate warthog get taken down by hyenas on the African plain. So much courage and ambition, so few tusks, so many dogs, so many teeth.
Imagine Eve, with the code done by folks who actually played games. Like, from the current era.
That is what we have to hope for, if and when someone with capital searching for a shelter gets involved.
I have a vision of Eve being a busy place, a place where you can log on and get into a roughly evenly matched small fleet battle within 5 minutes. I have a vision of being able to tell folks that Eve is where you come for space ship combat with lots of folks.
Wouldn't that be great? |
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
645
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 04:27:34 -
[207] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote: Wouldn't that be great?
no! Maybe! Yes! |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
354
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 04:31:32 -
[208] - Quote
Except that it won't ever play out that way. Even if the playerbase was 10 times what it is now. All it would mean is even larger fleet battles and even more lag. Because that is what the players have done. CCP has given us the tools to have large fights and they have given us the tools to have small ones. And especially recently they have been trying to tweek the game in ways that encourages the latter over the former without going so far as completely preventing the massive fleet battles (somehow) And yet, players still blob, the lag fest battles still happen, and solo and small gang roaming is ever on the decline. Because there is strength in numbers and players know that and don't like to loose.
The decline if small gang pvp and blob warfare is something we have done to ourselves. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6253
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 05:48:27 -
[209] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Sir BloodArgon Aulmais wrote:Plex prices go up and down all the time.
Proof? Or are you just spewing garbage. Check PLEX price history for last 3 days. Disturbing. I don't believe last patch had some much influence. Today we have devblog about PLEX changes. Price rising would start today not 3 days ago. It stinks, PLEX is bought with real money and CCP may have real problems with that situation.
What problem would that be? That the item you bought for real money would be worth more in game? That is bad how?
Edit: To be clear: the people losing out on this price increase are not people buying PLEX for RL money. Nor is it people currently holding PLEX. The people who lose out are those who are going to be buying PLEX for ISK after after the price started going up in game.
Seriosuly, learn to think thing through in a rational and based on solid economic theory not some bullshit nonsense.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6253
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 05:57:33 -
[210] - Quote
Professor Push wrote: GÇ£People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.GÇ¥
GÇò Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations
Execellent, bringing up Adam Smith, but.....
Who loses on this? People buying PLEX for RL money and selling them for ISK? No.
People who are holding PLEX? No.
People who have lots and lots of ISK and are looking to buy a PLEX to extend their account? Yes.
So you are butthurt over rich, long term players with a large pile of ISK.
Wow....people upset over the mega rich in game. WITF?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6253
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 06:02:53 -
[211] - Quote
commander aze wrote:Or... just a thought we elect people with high moral character via elecrions from the popular vote
Hahahahahahaha....
Sure. That will work.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Nate Hill
Rocket No. 9
56
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 07:34:07 -
[212] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Nate Hill wrote:It does matter. Feedback without highsec PVE is leading EVE to death. No interesting highsec PVE contents can attract new players now.
Then Highsec dwellers should get off their bloody asses and vote! How hard can it be to outnumber a couple thousand nullsec voters? Just like independent will never win. Alliances are like major parties.
It's hard to win for an unorganized community .
At least I voted after I searched HIGH, carebear, industry, mission and PVE. as key words. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3249
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 13:06:47 -
[213] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Except that it won't ever play out that way. Even if the playerbase was 10 times what it is now. All it would mean is even larger fleet battles and even more lag. Because that is what the players have done. CCP has given us the tools to have large fights and they have given us the tools to have small ones. And especially recently they have been trying to tweek the game in ways that encourages the latter over the former without going so far as completely preventing the massive fleet battles (somehow) And yet, players still blob, the lag fest battles still happen, and solo and small gang roaming is ever on the decline. Because there is strength in numbers and players know that and don't like to loose.
The decline if small gang pvp and blob warfare is something we have done to ourselves.
"We" did it to ourself because the game make it more efficient to do so. Losing sting in this game or at least it's supposed to so player, like normal human being, look for way to minimize their losses. Turns out, in a MMO where you can always bring more allies to a single battle, bringing those allies to that fight has become somewhat standard. The loop keep feeding itself until people lose interest. |
v3locity
Spatial Distortion Inc
26
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 13:54:01 -
[214] - Quote
Issler Dainze wrote: The players could change the nature of the CSM if they cared enough, but in the end they don't. In fact the number of Eve pod pilots that care enough to get involved in trying to bring about real changes to Eve fundamentals is small. That fact is sometimes hard to remember when posting a masterpiece of logical argument here in the forums. The few folks that are willing to commit the effort are pretty easy to spot in the game and generally well known.
Agree with the OP, CSM is useless.
Players could affect change, but why bother when you can simply go play another game. |
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
49
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 13:55:17 -
[215] - Quote
I see the PLEX price rise more due to carrier ratting and the Rorq being bashed with the latest nerf. If there was any effect of CSM leaking info, to my mind should have driven PLEX prices down, not up, as insider info should have suggested to dump your PLEX instead of buy. You are introducing more PLEX into the game, supply and demand, price should go down.As far as monkeying with people who buy PLEX for real money the get more bang for the buck with PLEX/ISK ratio being higher so why would the complain. My 2 ISK at any rate.
You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose.
Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
|
Gleb Koskov
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 17:01:32 -
[216] - Quote
I'm currently at 200 aurum, and they are going to take it away? but why not spend a couple of dollars to get it above 1k; problem solved? |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
78
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 17:16:58 -
[217] - Quote
Gleb Koskov wrote:I'm currently at 200 aurum, and they are going to take it away? but why not spend a couple of dollars to get it above 1k; problem solved? You can buy 2 pairs of boots or a shirt for it (at 100 AUR each). Extractors are around 4,500 AUR for I don't remember how many.
You can also verify if you have AUR on accounts which were activated in the past but which now are inactive and with Alpha clones only. (I don't think that was possible before.)
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
427
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 19:45:23 -
[218] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Professor Push wrote: GÇ£People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.GÇ¥
GÇò Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations Execellent, bringing up Adam Smith, but..... Who loses on this? People buying PLEX for RL money and selling them for ISK? No. People who are holding PLEX? No. People who have lots and lots of ISK and are looking to buy a PLEX to extend their account? Yes. So you are butthurt over rich, long term players with a large pile of ISK. Wow....people upset over the mega rich in game. WITF?
You missed a very important group. Some might say the KEY group: People selling ISK/PLEX for RL money. aka RMTers.
It's not like that has ever been a problem before, right? And certainly not involving the CSM.
Dum Spiro Spero
|
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
2683
|
Posted - 2017.03.22 19:50:11 -
[219] - Quote
Gleb Koskov wrote:I'm currently at 200 aurum, and they are going to take it away? but why not spend a couple of dollars to get it above 1k; problem solved? it will eventually get back to you in the form of miniplex as per the more recent devblog.
selling officer BCUs! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6872141
@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
|
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
275
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 10:01:55 -
[220] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Can we get rid of CSM? Their only role is to leak info for big entities/their friends. Casual players don't care and don't even vote for CSM. Players in big alliances are forced to vote for specific candidates. Overall CSM is giving advantage to 1% of player base, at the expense of reminding 99%. Now this is funny. Even assuming you are exactly right and the CSM membership was guilty of insider trading, you must at least admit that this is essentially monopoly money they're playing, right? The price of PLEX spikes: people who purchase it from CCP or vendor get more bang for their buck. Some player reps make a killing off of specualtion in a video game. Huge scandal. Give me a break.
I don't know how you lasted this long with your "We are the 99%" nonsense. This game is basically 1880's capitalism, and some of us like it that way.
As for your solution of asking CCP for permanent bans on the offenders, what happened to doing things the Guiding Hand Social Club way? You know who they are; go make it happen. |
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6281
|
Posted - 2017.03.23 16:38:20 -
[221] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:You missed a very important group. Some might say the KEY group: People selling ISK/PLEX for RL money. aka RMTers. It's not like that has ever been a problem before, right? And certainly not involving the CSM.
Oh, so you are butt hurt because of players deliberately violating the EULA....that a price increase in PLEX makes that slightly more appealing.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
101
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 14:09:43 -
[222] - Quote
Just a reminder for all those believing that it was a normal market fluctuation:
PLEX price is currently at 1,219 bil ISK and still rising every day, every hour... Pretty weird given that all the AUR will be converted into PLEX in the future. Guess all the involved ppl are cashing out right now.
Please tell me again how it wasn't an intentional manipulation. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6583
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 14:11:41 -
[223] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Just a reminder for all those believing that it was a normal market fluctuation:
PLEX price is currently at 1,219 bil ISK and still rising every day, every hour... Pretty weird given that all the AUR will be converted into PLEX in the future. Guess all the involved ppl are cashing out right now.
Please tell me again how it wasn't an intentional manipulation.
Uh, you know that cashing out involves increasing the supply, right? Which leads to a drop in prices.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
642
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 15:13:50 -
[224] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote: Pretty weird given that all the AUR will be converted into PLEX in the future. Guess all the involved ppl are cashing out right now.
... hahaha |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
84
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:11:38 -
[225] - Quote
What you have is an economic conspiracy theory that isn't rooted in any kind of actual economic theory (except for possibly some weird behavioral economics). Had there been a massive sell-off, you might have convinced me, but massive BUYING? Yeah, no.
Somebody please connect the dots and explain to me how insider trading led to an INCREASE in plex prices when all indications point to MORE plex entering the market based on this decision, because the economic logic escapes me. |
Salvos Rhoska
2626
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:23:28 -
[226] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Somebody please connect the dots and explain to me how insider trading led to an INCREASE in plex prices when all indications point to MORE plex entering the market based on this decision, because the economic logic escapes me.
Pending division of PLEX into 500 units, its a good time to buy them up now, before the change.
Afterwards its far easier to trade PLEX as x/500 units, rather than in 500 unit blocks as equivalent to now.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
xXdongbenderXx
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:29:53 -
[227] - Quote
Is now a good time to buy plex in its current form i'm looking to sell to the market in order to get started.... |
Salvos Rhoska
2627
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:31:20 -
[228] - Quote
xXdongbenderXx wrote:Is now a good time to buy plex in its current form i'm looking to sell to the market in order to get started....
With isk? Buy now as fast as you can. With cash, wait.
Its only going to go up.
I estimate 1.5-1.8 by the autumn. Maybe even 2bil.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
84
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:47:23 -
[229] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Somebody please connect the dots and explain to me how insider trading led to an INCREASE in plex prices when all indications point to MORE plex entering the market based on this decision, because the economic logic escapes me. Pending division of PLEX into 500 units, its a good time to buy them up now, before the change. Afterwards its far easier to trade PLEX as x/500 units, rather than in 500 unit blocks as equivalent to now.
What you're describing makes absolutely no economic sense because 1 PLEX today will be exactly the same as those 500 PLEX following the change. In fact, it will be worth LESS because of the additional PLEX getting dumped into the market from the aurum conversions.
However, I mentioned behavioral economics as a possible explanation because it describes non-rational economic decision-making. Your theory isn't true in any kind of classical economic sense, but the fact that you THINK it's true can drive you to buy PLEX despite that being completely irrational.
But still, the smart money dumps it - and insider trading is always built around smart money plays. So if anybody DID have advance notice of the announcement, they got burned because they dumped their ISK. They certainly didn't buy more of it. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
84
|
Posted - 2017.03.29 20:50:17 -
[230] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:xXdongbenderXx wrote:Is now a good time to buy plex in its current form i'm looking to sell to the market in order to get started.... With isk? Buy now as fast as you can. With cash, wait. Its only going to go up. I estimate 1.5-1.8 by the autumn. Maybe even 2bil.
Please tell me you're trolling. Given some of the ridiculous things said in this thread so far, it's really hard to tell. |
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6282
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 00:31:29 -
[231] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Somebody please connect the dots and explain to me how insider trading led to an INCREASE in plex prices when all indications point to MORE plex entering the market based on this decision, because the economic logic escapes me. Pending division of PLEX into 500 units, its a good time to buy them up now, before the change. Afterwards its far easier to trade PLEX as x/500 units, rather than in 500 unit blocks as equivalent to now. What you're describing makes absolutely no economic sense because 1 PLEX today will be exactly the same as those 500 PLEX following the change. In fact, it will be worth LESS because of the additional PLEX getting dumped into the market from the aurum conversions. This is exactly like a stock split and economic advisers and investment bankers will tell you that it makes no difference whether you buy before or after a split. Now if CCP was allowing shorter subscriptions or training time buys, then those smaller chunks might see higher demand - but they're not, so demand should be fairly constant. Only the trade volumes change - not the stock value. However, I mentioned behavioral economics as a possible explanation because it describes non-rational economic decision-making. Your theory isn't true in any kind of classical economic sense, but the fact that you THINK it's true can drive you to buy PLEX despite that being completely irrational. But still, the smart money dumps it - and insider trading is always built around smart money plays. So if anybody DID have advance notice of the announcement, they got burned because they dumped their ISK. They certainly didn't buy more of it.
The train of thought might be as follows:
Because they are dumping Aurum as a form of currency and allowing PLEX to be sub-divided and for these sub-divided PLEX to take the place of Aurum there will be increase demand for the new sub-divided PLEX.
You are also correct that since Aurum balances will be converted over to PLEX it will increase the supply of PLEX as well.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
3273
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 13:19:58 -
[232] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:xXdongbenderXx wrote:Is now a good time to buy plex in its current form i'm looking to sell to the market in order to get started.... With isk? Buy now as fast as you can. With cash, wait. Its only going to go up. I estimate 1.5-1.8 by the autumn. Maybe even 2bil.
Why would you wait to buy with cash? There is no need to wait. Just don't offload them on the market until you think the rise is over... |
Salvos Rhoska
2637
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 13:27:28 -
[233] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:xXdongbenderXx wrote:Is now a good time to buy plex in its current form i'm looking to sell to the market in order to get started.... With isk? Buy now as fast as you can. With cash, wait. Its only going to go up. I estimate 1.5-1.8 by the autumn. Maybe even 2bil. Why would you wait to buy with cash? There is no need to wait. Just don't offload them on the market until you think the rise is over...
Pffft...
PLEX cash price isnt going to change. No point in tying up your liquidity in a games virtual asset until you intend to sell them.
PLEX sitting in your soon to be vault earns/gains you nothing till you sell it.
Go out and have a nice dinner, buy your mother a gift, buy cheap stock with your spare cash. Whether you buy PLEX with cash today, last year, or next year, is arbitrary.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Nicola Romanoff
Interstellar Nuclear Penguins Penguin Mafia.
42
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 14:35:10 -
[234] - Quote
I thought they altered that and were now going to wait several months after the 1000+ aur balances are converted to then convert the ones below 1000 to whatever they would be under the new microplex, somno one will be getting any aur wiped out. |
Salvos Rhoska
2638
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 14:39:36 -
[235] - Quote
Nicola Romanoff wrote:I thought they altered that and were now going to wait several months after the 1000+ aur balances are converted to then convert the ones below 1000 to whatever they would be under the new microplex, somno one will be getting any aur wiped out.
If you have less than 1000 AUR, you will lose it all. No PLEX conversion. No AUR conversion, beyond or after.
If you have less than 1000 AUR, it will be deleted. Period.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
97
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 14:46:11 -
[236] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Because they are dumping Aurum as a form of currency and allowing PLEX to be sub-divided and for these sub-divided PLEX to take the place of Aurum there will be increase demand for the new sub-divided PLEX.
That's a legit point. The demand for Aurum will be shifted to PLEX, which will put some upward pressure on the price over the long term. However, I'd argue that such pressure will be entirely offset by the introduction of the PLEX Vault which should almost entirely eliminate PLEX losses through ganking because it eliminates the need to manually move PLEX in-game. So the supply is also increased over the long term because PLEX will no longer be getting blown up and wasted. |
Salvos Rhoska
2639
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 14:49:39 -
[237] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote: However, I'd argue that such pressure will be entirely offset by the introduction of the PLEX Vault which should almost entirely eliminate PLEX losses through ganking because it eliminates the need to manually move PLEX in-game.
There is no need, whatsoever, to manually move PLEX in-game.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
97
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 15:11:03 -
[238] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote: However, I'd argue that such pressure will be entirely offset by the introduction of the PLEX Vault which should almost entirely eliminate PLEX losses through ganking because it eliminates the need to manually move PLEX in-game. There is no need, whatsoever, to manually move PLEX in-game.
That's not entirely true. There's no need to move it If people are buying and selling it for their personal use. But if you're buying and selling it speculatively, then you have to manually move it from low value stations to high value stations. It's no different than any other commodity in that regard. PLEX traders have no choice but to load it onto a ship and move it. That's why people do it and why it's so frequently blown up in space.
But, the PLEX Vault will eliminate that because all PLEX will reside there and will be accessible from any station. So even high volume speculative PLEX traders will be able to take it from one market to another without risk. Then there TRULY won't be any reason whatsoever to manually move PLEX in-game.
PLEX currently gets blown up everyday, thus reducing the supply and putting upward pressure on the price. The PLEX Vault reverses that pressure. |
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
645
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:15:13 -
[239] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:xXdongbenderXx wrote:Is now a good time to buy plex in its current form i'm looking to sell to the market in order to get started.... With isk? Buy now as fast as you can. With cash, wait. Its only going to go up. I estimate 1.5-1.8 by the autumn. Maybe even 2bil. Why would you wait to buy with cash? There is no need to wait. Just don't offload them on the market until you think the rise is over... Pffft... PLEX cash price isnt going to change. No point in tying up your liquidity in a games virtual asset until you intend to sell them. PLEX sitting in your soon to be vault earns/gains you nothing till you sell it, and then too only as space currency. Go out and have a nice dinner, buy your mother a gift, buy cheap stock with your spare cash. Whether you buy PLEX with cash today, last year, or next year, is arbitrary.
It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
|
Cade Windstalker
1188
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:28:04 -
[240] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Just a reminder for all those believing that it was a normal market fluctuation:
PLEX price is currently at 1,219 bil ISK and still rising every day, every hour... Pretty weird given that all the AUR will be converted into PLEX in the future. Guess all the involved ppl are cashing out right now.
Please tell me again how it wasn't an intentional manipulation.
OP this makes literally zero sense in addition to being factually inaccurate... PLEX has been going up and down since the patch landed, and it *still* isn't back up to Pre-Citadel levels.
Oh, and people "cashing out" tends to drop the price of something, and is not generally associated with a rise in the price of an item, it's generally done when the price has peaked or is dropping. There is literally zero evidence of *anyone* "cashing out" here. If anything volume is slightly down this week, not up.
What are you even on about??? |
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6282
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:28:58 -
[241] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Because they are dumping Aurum as a form of currency and allowing PLEX to be sub-divided and for these sub-divided PLEX to take the place of Aurum there will be increase demand for the new sub-divided PLEX. That's a legit point. The demand for Aurum will be shifted to PLEX, which will put some upward pressure on the price over the long term. However, I'd argue that such pressure will be entirely offset by the introduction of the PLEX Vault which should almost entirely eliminate PLEX losses through ganking because it eliminates the need to manually move PLEX in-game. So the supply is also increased over the long term because PLEX will no longer be getting blown up and wasted.
My view is that I'm not entirely sure the increased demand for PLEX is going to matter that much in the end. Up until now people would buy Aurum, soon they'll switch over to PLEX, so the increased demand should be offset by increased supply. Of course, there is something going on in markets that allows for asset price bubbles--i.e. when the price of some asset becomes uncoupled from that assets intrinsic value. For example, experimental economics shows that in an experiment where there is an asset that pays out a dividend of $0.24/period and the experiment runs for 9 periods and participants are given various amounts of "cash" and the asset. The initial price of the asset should be $3.60, and it's price should fall from that initial value by $0.24 every turn. In fact, classical/rational expectations indicates there should be no trading at all really. After all, the price of the asset is going to be exactly equal to it's dividend payouts from that point forward (discounting is ignored as it is only 9 periods and there is not much time between periods). Yet in experiments the assets are often traded a prices well below their intrinsic value, then the price rises and overshoots it's intrinsic value at the time, and eventually crashes well before the 15th period--i.e. there is an asset bubble even when there is no uncertainty.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
97
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:29:06 -
[242] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6282
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:39:12 -
[243] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
If you have less than 1000 AUR, it will be deleted. Period.
Nope.
Quote:Next up: Aurum conversion for players with Aurum balances of 1000 or less. The goal behind the initial plan was to minimize devaluation of PLEX at launch due to Aurum stockpiles entering the market, which is still a big priority, but, we hear you loud and clear that leaving some balances to not be converted is not a good enough solution.
After several days of looking at alternatives, we now intend to delay conversion for small balances rather than not converting at all. On feature release, we will convert Aurum balances greater than 1000 to PLEX immediately, and then, 3 months later, convert balances under 1000 Aurum. This should mitigate impact on the PLEX market and give us a good window to look at activity and adjust if needed.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6282
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:40:03 -
[244] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.
True, meaning if you just bought PLEX for ISK...whoops.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Xenuria
1118
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:54:48 -
[245] - Quote
Oh Look! It's this thread again...
Nobody on the CSM did any kind of insider trading. If they did I would be shouting it from the highest mountain tops for all to hear.
CSM 12 Candidate
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
98
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 17:57:28 -
[246] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:My view is that I'm not entirely sure the increased demand for PLEX is going to matter that much in the end. Up until now people would buy Aurum, soon they'll switch over to PLEX, so the increased demand should be offset by increased supply. Of course, there is something going on in markets that allows for asset price bubbles--i.e. when the price of some asset becomes uncoupled from that assets intrinsic value. For example, experimental economics shows that in an experiment where there is an asset that pays out a dividend of $0.24/period and the experiment runs for 9 periods and participants are given various amounts of "cash" and the asset. The initial price of the asset should be $3.60, and it's price should fall from that initial value by $0.24 every turn. In fact, classical/rational expectations indicates there should be no trading at all really. After all, the price of the asset is going to be exactly equal to it's dividend payouts from that point forward (discounting is ignored as it is only 9 periods and there is not much time between periods). Yet in experiments the assets are often traded a prices well below their intrinsic value, then the price rises and overshoots it's intrinsic value at the time, and eventually crashes well before the 15th period--i.e. there is an asset bubble even when there is no uncertainty.
That's an interesting experiment. The pattern actually describes a classic bubble pretty well. The difference is that most bubbles are associated with uncertainty. The fact that it can happen under conditions of complete certainty almost sounds like the Greater Fool Theory in which rational buyers purchase items well above their intrinsic value in the belief that somebody else will be even more "foolish" than them and pay an even greater value.
Of course it's all rooted in behavioral economics/finance. People aren't rational - especially in a game in which they have much greater risk tolerance. That's why economics is a social science and not a hard science. If I'm not mistaken, CCP keeps a trained economist on the payroll to help them navigate these issues. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
98
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 18:02:27 -
[247] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Oh Look! It's this thread again...
Nobody on the CSM did any kind of insider trading. If they did I would be shouting it from the highest mountain tops for all to hear.
I wish I could like this post more than once. Conspiracy theorists are going to believe what they want to believe, but I still appreciate hearing CSM members openly dispute such nonsense. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6283
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 18:20:25 -
[248] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:My view is that I'm not entirely sure the increased demand for PLEX is going to matter that much in the end. Up until now people would buy Aurum, soon they'll switch over to PLEX, so the increased demand should be offset by increased supply. Of course, there is something going on in markets that allows for asset price bubbles--i.e. when the price of some asset becomes uncoupled from that assets intrinsic value. For example, experimental economics shows that in an experiment where there is an asset that pays out a dividend of $0.24/period and the experiment runs for 9 periods and participants are given various amounts of "cash" and the asset. The initial price of the asset should be $3.60, and it's price should fall from that initial value by $0.24 every turn. In fact, classical/rational expectations indicates there should be no trading at all really. After all, the price of the asset is going to be exactly equal to it's dividend payouts from that point forward (discounting is ignored as it is only 9 periods and there is not much time between periods). Yet in experiments the assets are often traded a prices well below their intrinsic value, then the price rises and overshoots it's intrinsic value at the time, and eventually crashes well before the 15th period--i.e. there is an asset bubble even when there is no uncertainty. That's an interesting experiment. The pattern actually describes a classic bubble pretty well. The difference is that most bubbles are associated with uncertainty. The fact that it can happen under conditions of complete certainty almost sounds like the Greater Fool Theory in which rational buyers purchase items well above their intrinsic value in the belief that somebody else will be even more "foolish" than them and pay an even greater value. Of course it's all rooted in behavioral economics/finance. People aren't rational - especially in a game in which they have much greater risk tolerance. That's why economics is a social science and not a hard science. If I'm not mistaken, CCP keeps a trained economist on the payroll to help them navigate these issues.
CCP DrEyjo no longer works for/with CCP. He accepted the position of rector at H+ísk+¦linn +í Akureyri back in 2014.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Sullen Decimus
Polaris Rising The Bastion
69
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 18:27:08 -
[249] - Quote
This entire thread is ******* hilarious. You're literally spewing **** while shooting yourself in the foot for your own arguments you're presenting. Before I get to that though if we leaked anything why the hell wouldn't we have done it months ago? We were never informed when this dev blog was even going up. So there is no way we would have known about it going up the days leading up. Now how your'e literally wrong and proved it yourself.
This image has been linked in the forum already http://i.imgur.com/69fHmVs.png
You point to the 20% increase as us buying up the market. Here's the thing. see those blue bars across the bottom? Those are the daily volume traded. Notice how it literally didn't change at all during the increase. It actually had a small decrease! So you're argument is shot. There is no backing of it at all. In fact, it supports we didn't leak anything because the market volume didn't change at all. PLEX is known to have waterfall effects in it's price so if anything it's much more likely plex sellers started to see the price going up (from natural market fluctuation) and decided to hold their plex while it was rising as any knowledgeable market person would do. This happens all the time in this market.
Also IF WE DID leak anything, plex is one of the single easiest items to track. Our accounts/alts are the most scrutinized in the game. Even if we told friends about it to get a benefit that **** is easy to track. Your argument is dead. Leave it in the grave and lay off the conspiracy koolaide awhile.
CSM XI Member
Twitter: Sullen_Decimus
Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
Sullen Decimus for CSM XII
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
98
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 18:52:43 -
[250] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:CCP DrEyjo no longer works for/with CCP. He accepted the position of rector at H+ísk+¦linn +í Akureyri back in 2014.
That's disappointing to hear. I always thought having a trained economic adviser on the development team was cool. Though CCP Quant certainly does some great economic data analysis. |
|
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 23:01:59 -
[251] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days. 1 PLEX \OFFER\ Save $2.99 $16.96
2 PLEX \OFFER\ Save $10.16 $29.74
MOST POPULAR 6 PLEX Save $14.73 $104.97
12 PLEX Save $29.46 $209.94
28 PLEX Save $68.74 $489.86
the more free players using plex the more plex goes up
the more people buy plex to sell them the lower plex goes (the more it goes down)
Distribution of wealth
Wealth inequality in the United States Statistics[edit]
Distribution of net worth in the United States (2007).[17] The net wealth of many people in the lowest 20% is negative because of debt.[17] By 2014 the wealth gap deepened.
In 2007, the top 20% wealthiest possessed 80% of all financial assets.[18] In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 35% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 51%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%. In 2011, financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 43%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%
... Inherited wealth may help explain why many Americans who have become rich may have had a "substantial head start".[23][24]
---> You know, if you take away Americans inherited name, and seek forfeiture of their other rights, it of course does explain why their wealth is substantially less than those rich people the courts protect and should lose their trillions by the hundreds after the spoils of war.
Also , the 20-80 rule need not apply.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
440
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 23:21:38 -
[252] - Quote
I thought the rise in plex price was triggered by the rorqual nerf? it doesn't line up perfectly with it, but it still lines up a hell of a lot better than with the plex announcement. (and makes more sense than the plex announcement does) plex are needed to extract skills, or to sell characters. rorquals get nerfed, people decide to get out of roq mining, either by extraction or sale, plex prices start creeping up.
although far more likely, this is just the natural price creep we always see happen at around this time of year since there hasn't been a sale in a while. and almost on schedule, ccp announces 15% off, which will push prices back down.
if there WAS a csm leak, and people where buying up plex on mass, well someone just lost a whole bunch of money. |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 23:36:07 -
[253] - Quote
wealth = assets GêÆ liabilities
change of wealth = income GêÆ expense.
All that is required is to hold the CSM liable and have their assets seized and forfeited. That way, their wealth will be reduced, or possibly so, if the equation works. If the equation does not work, then their wealth will be used to compensate for the loss of ethic derived powers...
Change their wealth, so that the people getting income from PLEX can justify their expense to buy a Citadel as their home, instead of feeling like if it is a liablity and have it ransomed to the highest bidder.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
731
|
Posted - 2017.03.30 23:48:47 -
[254] - Quote
Xenuria wrote:Oh Look! It's this thread again...
Nobody on the CSM did any kind of insider trading. If they did I would be shouting it from the highest mountain tops for all to hear.
oh yea.... you would... sure ahahahahahhahahahahahahahhaahahah
pls you are ealy man! 1st of April is in some hours!
stfu till then |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
83
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 00:10:53 -
[255] - Quote
The same goes for weapons and ships. The less PLEX they have & more liability , the less power of defense they'll have for their citadel homes.
& this also goes for their moral opportunities.
There are powers that be who know when the oppressed are unfairly denied.
Take away their ships, weapons and ability to defend themselves, in equal values, and they will lose credibility and the power to protect the value of those assets, credit and so on.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
100
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 00:57:56 -
[256] - Quote
Veine Miromme wrote:The same goes for weapons and ships. The less PLEX they have & more liability , the less power of defense they'll have for their citadel homes.
& this also goes for their moral opportunities.
There are powers that be who know when the oppressed are unfairly denied.
Take away their ships, weapons and ability to defend themselves, in equal values, and they will lose credibility and the power to protect the value of those assets, credit and so on.
Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator. |
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 01:01:37 -
[257] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:
Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.
lol
you don't seem friendly.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Soel Reit
Dambusters 617 Sq
733
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 01:06:03 -
[258] - Quote
Veine Miromme wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:
Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.
lol you don't seem friendly.
he is friendly.... just opting for friendly fire |
Vigirr
333
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 01:25:37 -
[259] - Quote
Veine Miromme wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:
Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.
lol you don't seem friendly.
It's not about being friendly or not, he's pointing out that your post makes no fcking sense. And it doesn't, so he's right. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6283
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 05:00:10 -
[260] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Veine Miromme wrote:The same goes for weapons and ships. The less PLEX they have & more liability , the less power of defense they'll have for their citadel homes.
& this also goes for their moral opportunities.
There are powers that be who know when the oppressed are unfairly denied.
Take away their ships, weapons and ability to defend themselves, in equal values, and they will lose credibility and the power to protect the value of those assets, credit and so on. Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.
Post modernist nonsense at it's finest.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
|
Veine Miromme
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
84
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 05:35:02 -
[261] - Quote
Vigirr wrote:Veine Miromme wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:
Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.
lol you don't seem friendly. It's not about being friendly or not, he's pointing out that your post makes no fcking sense. And it doesn't, so he's right.
No, you're not friendly either, you're both just trying to attack me.
Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
|
Salvos Rhoska
2660
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 07:41:41 -
[262] - Quote
More transparency would help.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6284
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 07:43:24 -
[263] - Quote
Veine Miromme wrote:Vigirr wrote:Veine Miromme wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:
Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.
lol you don't seem friendly. It's not about being friendly or not, he's pointing out that your post makes no fcking sense. And it doesn't, so he's right. No, you're not friendly either, you're both just trying to attack me.
Or you could, you know...make a cogent point and preferably one that does not drag in current RL politics into it.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6284
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 07:45:58 -
[264] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:More transparency would help.
What Transparency? There is an assumption of bad actions, yet there is little reason to think it has happened. The price movements could very well be explained by post hoc ergo propter hoc vs. a grand conspiracy.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Salvos Rhoska
2660
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 07:46:55 -
[265] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:More transparency would help. What Transparency?
Exactly.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
645
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 19:11:56 -
[266] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.
Bollocks.
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6286
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 19:21:50 -
[267] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:More transparency would help. What Transparency? Exactly.
Selective quoting does little to improve your position.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
102
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 19:36:25 -
[268] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate. Bollocks.
Well, the only appropriate response to such a carefully considered and articulated assessment is to say "Does so, does so, does so!" |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6286
|
Posted - 2017.03.31 20:18:13 -
[269] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate. Bollocks. Well, the only appropriate response to such a carefully considered and articulated assessment is to say "Does so, does so, does so!"
Really? I thought it was, "Your Mama!"
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6289
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 06:03:32 -
[270] - Quote
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
|
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
446
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 07:23:37 -
[271] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate. Bollocks.
I feel that with the plex prices moving back down in reaction to the sale, that this post right here needs to be highlighted again. |
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
446
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 07:25:20 -
[272] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.
its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6289
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 07:30:56 -
[273] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways. its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.
It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!?
To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Bjorn Tyrson
EVE University Ivy League
448
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 07:37:49 -
[274] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways. its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe. It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!? To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know.
I remember hearing that ccp had actually admitted that right around 1b isk is the "sweet spot" that they like to keep plex in (although I don't have a direct source for this so take it as rumor), inflation will inevitably drive the prices up, so all they need to do is have sales when they want to drive them back down. and as you said, its a good money making strategy on their part as well. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6291
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 19:00:23 -
[275] - Quote
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways. its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe. It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!? To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. I remember hearing that ccp had actually admitted that right around 1b isk is the "sweet spot" that they like to keep plex in (although I don't have a direct source for this so take it as rumor), inflation will inevitably drive the prices up, so all they need to do is have sales when they want to drive them back down. and as you said, its a good money making strategy on their part as well.
We are in a period of deflation according to the latest report (February 2017) from CCP Quant. Actually, having PLEX can help with this problem. An old bitter vet with 50 billion in his wallet buying some PLEX puts billions of ISK into new players wallets who will more likely go and spend it (ships, ammo, implants, etc.).
PLEX are an other example of emergence in the game. CCP appears to have started it for the purpose of combating RMT (a good thing). But it helps redistribute ISK from those older players to newer players (a good thing) and it helps keep ISK in circulation vs. sitting in a wallet (a good thing).
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
645
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 22:12:28 -
[276] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Nicolai Serkanner wrote:It just did... there is a discount the next few days.
CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate. Bollocks. Well, the only appropriate response to such a carefully considered and articulated assessment is to say "Does so, does so, does so!"
In a few years the price of PLEX has gone up from 500 mil to more than 1 bil. Why didn't CCP stop that from happening by offering discounts?
|
Nicolai Serkanner
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
645
|
Posted - 2017.04.01 22:14:16 -
[277] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways. its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe. It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!? To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know.
But discounts di not stop the increase of prices. So it is indeed batshit crazy.
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6291
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 01:58:05 -
[278] - Quote
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Bjorn Tyrson wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways. its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe. It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!? To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. But discounts di not stop the increase of prices. So it is indeed batshit crazy.
Yes it probably did. You posted on 3/30 that there was a discount on PLEX. Looking at the price of PLEX in Jita it peaked (for the last few months on March 29 with a median price just over 1.2 billion. The price has been falling since then and right now you can buy a PLEX for 1.139 billion.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Alexander Bor
Polaris Global
15
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 07:08:09 -
[279] - Quote
OMG it's as simple as 1,2,3:
CSM being composed of a big alliance representatives cannot be treated as independent.
So, yes, CSM is compromised. And one shouldn't be a genius to see that. And it is absolutely no matter did the info which influenced the market was leaked or not - it was possible on easy way.
By the way CCP should be interested in the investigation of such a case and being publicity and open here if they want the game and the community to develop successfully. Of course it is possible only if CCP not involved in this crap. |
Nyx Viliana
Not Recruting
22
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 12:58:52 -
[280] - Quote
I love how everyone is demanding an investigation. Even if IA looks into this I feel pretty confident that no matter what was said you would all scream cover up.
Oh on a side note when I first started playing plex was 450m isk. Are you going to tell me that someone leaked the information way back then and that is why the price is so high.
A few other points:
A) regarding aurm being destroyed, last time I checked all items within and in relation to Eve are property of CCP who grant you *a limited license* to use them. - it remains property of CCP, they can do what they want with it.
And before someone goes "oh that's nothe binding" CCP owns Eve, if you want to make the argument that the EULA is not binding go ahead, you in effect have no right to play the game anyway
B) and seriously I know that you do not know how to undock and shoot things but if you are all so 'Angry with CCP' why are you on the forums complaing, heck why do you still have the login info for your eve account memorized |
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6294
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 18:37:06 -
[281] - Quote
Nyx Viliana wrote:I love how everyone is demanding an investigation. Even if IA looks into this I feel pretty confident that no matter what was said you would all scream cover up.
Probably. And consider, the "proof" of this is that the price started to rise before the announcement....but why? The story is somebody or somebodies were snapping up PLEX knowing the price would be permanently higher in the future. Lets run through this logic though....
1. Was there increased trading volume? No. Uh-oh. While this is not fatal to the Cornspiracy TheoryGäó, it is a bit problematic. It is problematic in that there would need to be changes to both supply and demand so that the quantity traded does not change much. We would need demand for PLEX to decrease (i.e. the whole frigging demand curve to shift--i.e. demand is higher at all price levels). Further, we would need a supply decrease (i.e. a shift in the supply curve so that there is less PLEX supplied at all price levels). Is this possible? Theoretically sure, but while we understand the shift in demand based on the Cornspiracy TheoryGäó it leaves unexplained the shift in supply. Now somebody might argue, "Well after the change they are going to see the value of their PLEX increase, so they take them off the market." Okay, but now the Conrspiracy TheoryGäó just got bigger. Now it is people who supply PLEX and not just some opportunistic people entering the market. The bigger the CornspiracyGäó the more likely there is to be a leak. Further, the price increases are essentially double. That is, both movements in the supply and demand curves are reinforcing--i.e. they both push prices higher. Is only a 20% increase reasonable? IDK, seems pretty small beer for amount of ISK we are talking about. And before some numpty comes in and says, "But, but, but, they could buy up trillions of PLEX!!!!" Lets go back to volume traded mmmmkay? And what happens when the suppliers re-enter the market and put their PLEX back on the market? Hmmm...might have a problem with this "permanent price increase"....which bring us to 2.
2. The implicit assumption of the permanent price increase. Yes, there will be increased demand from PLEX since PLEX will continue to be used for its current purposes, but also take over for Aurum. Are we all agreed on this? Yes? Good. Won't there also be an increase in supply as Aurum is converted into PLEX? All Aurum. I linked back up stream another Dev Blog where CCP decided that ALL Aurum balances will be converted in two waves. First wave those Aurum balances over 1,000 and then later those under 1,000. Now in this case, the movement in supply will be towards a lower price. Supply will shift outwards. Further, suppose the Cabal did go out and buy up a bunch of PLEX. What happens when they try to capitalize on the increased price--i.e. what do they do and how will it affect the market. If they put a bunch of PLEX on the market what happens to the price? Sure they can try to sell them off slowly, but if there are several members to the Cabal then that brings in another problem: coordination. If I am a member of the Cabal and I have say, 10% of the PLEX we bought up, if I dump I'll likely decrease the paper gains the rest of the Cabal members have gotten. And since this is true of all Cabal members, there will be more pressure to unwind their respective PLEX investment to hold them. They could try to trade them for valuable in game items, but then that same pressure applies to the new holder of the PLEX.
So really, all this looks like a giant pile of steaming post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning to me--i.e. bullshit.
And for full disclosure, I am do participate in the PLEX market, but as a consumer--i.e. I use them to extend my game time on some of my accounts. So, if anything I would be harmed by such market manipulation. I just don't see much indirect evidence of market manipulation. Why did PLEX start going up around March 8th? IDK. But just because IDK does not mean that some other theory must be true.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
112
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 19:32:31 -
[282] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Intelligent analysis
But, but...conspiracy! Leaks! Fake news! We all know that this is just a thin veneer of lies put forward by the intelligentsia to protect the game's elites who are scamming the system. As they say, there are lies, damn lies and then alternative facts. Stop trying to confuse us with unassailable logic. We know The Truth. It's completely unnecessary to articulate a logical argument supporting what we already know to be true. Next thing you know, you'll be telling us that the world isn't flat despite what we see with our own eyes.
/s
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6294
|
Posted - 2017.04.02 20:41:07 -
[283] - Quote
BTW, in looking at the volume traded we see what supply and demand analysis would tell us. When the PLEX prices hit 1.15 billion around March 16th (the day of the Dev Blog announcing this change) we saw a spike in volume traded. We see 3,541 on the 15th and 5,002 on the 16th. Now some might say, "Ah-ha! The Cabal at work!" Maybe. But how about this, the rise for the in-game price is a "shift parameter" for the out-of-game market. What does that mean?
Most people take an econ course, maybe in high school and maybe in college and a few both. You might take more than one. But in the end you'll come away with this:
Supply : S(P) = a +b*P Demand: D(P) = c - d*P.
And you'll know:
S(P) = D(P) is your equilibrium condition. Set those two equations equal to each other and solve. Ta-da your equilibrium.
But, for those few masochists who went further you learn that this is the result of solving this problem:
max U[x(1),x(2),....x(n),]
subject to:
p(1)*x(1) + p(2)*x(2) +....+ p(n)*x(n) = M
That is you are maximizing your utility for 'n' goods and you only have M dollars to spend (we'll omit things like the labor-leisure trade off, and inter-temporal utility maximization as we really don't want to get into the vagaries of Bellman's equation).
What does all the nonsense dell use, that for a given good the demand is actually:
D[p(1),p(2),...p(n),M].
That is demand depends on not only the price but your income and all other prices. The reason for this is that other goods are, to varying degrees either substitutes or compliments to all the other goods. Price of beef goes up, the demand for chicken and pork shifts outwards because pork and chicken are substitutes for beef. Technically there are other parameters in the utility function as well. That is for 2 goods the utility function might look like,
U(x,y) = a*log(x) + (1-a)*log(y).
In this case the demand function would be,
D[p(x),p(y),M,a].
The parameter 'a' represents a taste parameter. Changes in 'a', will shift the standard demand graph around--i.e. it can lower (increase) demand for say x as 'a' decreases (increases). Note, 'a' satisfies 0 < a < 1.
What is the point? The point is that the price in game will influence the demand out of game. As the in-game price rises there will likely be more demand to buy a PLEX to sell in game. Hence the jump in volume on the 16th. Oh, and look, the price in game fell 17th, and it fell again on the 18th, and fell yet again on the 19th as the price drop bottomed out. And yes, people who had been holding PLEX might also have decided to "take some profits" too.
In other words, we can explain the in-game price movements around the 16th-19th with out having to resort to a conspiracy.
In short, be very careful when reasoning from a price change.
Bob: The price went up. Mary: And? Bob: Clearly demand increased? Mary: Really, why couldn't supply have decreased? Bob: Errrr.... Mary: Or maybe it was both? Bob: Look, the economy is controlled by the Illuminati and the Trilateral Commission, it would suit their interest for there to be more demand! Make people dependent! Mary: Where is the evidence for this? Bob: The very lack of evidence is evidence of the far reaching control and power of the conspiracy, don't you see!?!?!? Mary: [edging slowly away]....uuuhhhmm sure Bob, that sounds interesting and I'd love to stay and talk, but oh look at the time, I need to go home and paint my dog's nails. Bye!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Salvos Rhoska
2663
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 09:08:58 -
[284] - Quote
Whether insider info was leaked, or not, is the issue here.
The rapid spike is circumstantial unless it can be linked by evidence to that.
I think the timing and magnitude of the spike warrants some investigation, to see if insider info did prompt it.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
118
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 16:10:45 -
[285] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Whether insider info was leaked, or not, is the issue here.
The rapid spike is circumstantial unless it can be linked by evidence to that.
I think the timing and magnitude of the spike warrants some investigation, to see if insider info did prompt it.
Investigation complete. Spike was not due to insider info. Next topic. |
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
171
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 17:02:30 -
[286] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Whether insider info was leaked, or not, is the issue here.
The rapid spike is circumstantial unless it can be linked by evidence to that.
I think the timing and magnitude of the spike warrants some investigation, to see if insider info did prompt it. Investigation complete. Spike was not due to insider info. Next topic. What possible proof of that is there? |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
118
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 17:37:27 -
[287] - Quote
How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? Have you even bothered to read even a portion of this thread or did you just skip to end?
Insider information would have resulted in a sell off of PLEX - not buying it up (logical argument). There was also no increase in trade volume that would have been necessary to move the market through insider trading (evidentiary argument). Can you refute any of that? Or is your argument simply "Price go up - bad man do it."?
What do you have in support of your theory? A simple causal explanation of any kind? Just connect the dots for me. |
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 18:42:56 -
[288] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? Have you even bothered to read even a portion of this thread or did you just skip to end?
Insider information would have resulted in a sell off of PLEX - not buying it up (logical argument). There was also no increase in trade volume that would have been necessary to move the market through insider trading (evidentiary argument). Can you refute any of that? Or is your argument simply "Price go up - bad man do it."?
What do you have in support of your theory? A simple causal explanation of any kind? Just connect the dots for me.
Higher price, same volume means increased demand and reduced supply. Sad thing is that all those arguments were already answered among those 15 pages, and you didn't even bother to read it. You post sth that 50 other ppl already thoroughly discussed and state that the case is closed.
The investigation should be conducted by real men (CCP) with necessary tools, knowledge and skills not some wannabe economics students. So please move on, unless you actually have sth meaningful to add here. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6302
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:00:53 -
[289] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? Have you even bothered to read even a portion of this thread or did you just skip to end?
Insider information would have resulted in a sell off of PLEX - not buying it up (logical argument). There was also no increase in trade volume that would have been necessary to move the market through insider trading (evidentiary argument). Can you refute any of that? Or is your argument simply "Price go up - bad man do it."?
What do you have in support of your theory? A simple causal explanation of any kind? Just connect the dots for me. Higher price, same volume means increased demand and reduced supply. Sad thing is that all those arguments were already answered among those 15 pages, and you didn't even bother to read it. You post sth that 50 other ppl already thoroughly discussed and state that the case is closed. The investigation should be conducted by real men (CCP) with necessary tools, knowledge and skills not some wannabe economics students. So please move on, unless you actually have sth meaningful to add here.
Really? I saw no such arguments.
Your theory is that there was a surge in buying--i.e. demand shift. What caused the shift in supply? Why was supply shifted at all price levels?
Oh, and you do understand you are making pretty much a knife's edge argument: That supply and demand shifted in such a way so as to pretty much exactly offset each other without an increase in volume. That is a pretty precise conspiracy!
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:08:57 -
[290] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Girka Kring wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? Have you even bothered to read even a portion of this thread or did you just skip to end?
Insider information would have resulted in a sell off of PLEX - not buying it up (logical argument). There was also no increase in trade volume that would have been necessary to move the market through insider trading (evidentiary argument). Can you refute any of that? Or is your argument simply "Price go up - bad man do it."?
What do you have in support of your theory? A simple causal explanation of any kind? Just connect the dots for me. Higher price, same volume means increased demand and reduced supply. Sad thing is that all those arguments were already answered among those 15 pages, and you didn't even bother to read it. You post sth that 50 other ppl already thoroughly discussed and state that the case is closed. The investigation should be conducted by real men (CCP) with necessary tools, knowledge and skills not some wannabe economics students. So please move on, unless you actually have sth meaningful to add here. Really? I saw no such arguments. Your theory is that there was a surge in buying--i.e. demand shift. What caused the shift in supply? Why was supply shifted at all price levels? Oh, and you do understand you are making pretty much a knife's edge argument: That supply and demand shifted in such a way so as to pretty much exactly offset each other without an increase in volume. That is a pretty precise conspiracy!
Why are you linking your own post? Just read what others already wrote about this.
What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously.
It seems like you assume there was neither demand, nor supply changed. I'm really curious how do you explain 20% higher prices with same volume.
That's right, you don't. |
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6303
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:11:22 -
[291] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Girka Kring wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? Have you even bothered to read even a portion of this thread or did you just skip to end?
Insider information would have resulted in a sell off of PLEX - not buying it up (logical argument). There was also no increase in trade volume that would have been necessary to move the market through insider trading (evidentiary argument). Can you refute any of that? Or is your argument simply "Price go up - bad man do it."?
What do you have in support of your theory? A simple causal explanation of any kind? Just connect the dots for me. Higher price, same volume means increased demand and reduced supply. Sad thing is that all those arguments were already answered among those 15 pages, and you didn't even bother to read it. You post sth that 50 other ppl already thoroughly discussed and state that the case is closed. The investigation should be conducted by real men (CCP) with necessary tools, knowledge and skills not some wannabe economics students. So please move on, unless you actually have sth meaningful to add here. Really? I saw no such arguments. Your theory is that there was a surge in buying--i.e. demand shift. What caused the shift in supply? Why was supply shifted at all price levels? Oh, and you do understand you are making pretty much a knife's edge argument: That supply and demand shifted in such a way so as to pretty much exactly offset each other without an increase in volume. That is a pretty precise conspiracy! Why are you linking your own post? Just read what others already wrote about this. What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously. It seems like you assume there was neither a shift in demand or supply. Therefore I'm really curious how do you explain 20% higher prices with same volume. That's right, you don't.
So you got nothing then. Okay.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
121
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:13:07 -
[292] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? Have you even bothered to read even a portion of this thread or did you just skip to end?
Insider information would have resulted in a sell off of PLEX - not buying it up (logical argument). There was also no increase in trade volume that would have been necessary to move the market through insider trading (evidentiary argument). Can you refute any of that? Or is your argument simply "Price go up - bad man do it."?
What do you have in support of your theory? A simple causal explanation of any kind? Just connect the dots for me. Higher price, same volume means increased demand and reduced supply. Sad thing is that all those arguments were already answered among those 15 pages, and you didn't even bother to read it. You post sth that 50 other ppl already thoroughly discussed and state that the case is closed. The investigation should be conducted by real men (CCP) with necessary tools, knowledge and skills not some wannabe economics students. So please move on, unless you actually have sth meaningful to add here.
NONE of those arguments were answered. In fact, nobody even tried to refute them. DIDN'T. EVEN. TRY. Either link to a post that addresses them or explain the economic logic in your own words. Why would people buy in advance of the announcement when every indication is that it's going to increase the supply of PLEX on the market? And if they did, why don't we see evidence of it in the trade volumes? Once again, just connect the dots in a way that makes sense.
Prices go up and prices go down, That's just how economics works. Insisting that something nefarious is at work every time the market moves is simply irrational - especially when it flies in the face of logic. There wasn't anything special about this spike - it's happened dozens of times before in the PLEX market.
But for all we know, CCP did look into it of curiosity. Do you actually expect them to announce their findings every time the market moves and it WASN'T due to insider info just to satisfy a bunch of irrational conspiracy nuts who would STILL insist that CCP is lying? There's obviously no answer that will satisfy you. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
121
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:17:08 -
[293] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously.
What would cause them to think that the announcement would cause a spike in PLEX prices? |
Girka Kring
Republic University Minmatar Republic
105
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:24:48 -
[294] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Girka Kring wrote:What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously. What would cause them to think that the announcement would cause a spike in PLEX prices?
The initial decision that all AUR below 1000 will be erased, so ppl below 1000 AUR bought PLEX to get AUR above 1000. Then after CCP changed their mind it was already too late, PLEXes were bought and a new, higher price equilibrium was reached.
It was also established that there was no other reason for the PLEX price to jump at that moment. There was no increase in active accounts number so the theory about rorqual pilots switching to multiboxing hulks was invalid. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6304
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:34:47 -
[295] - Quote
You mean like this screed of yours?
Let me see you assume there is no other possible reason for the price increase. Just because you cannot see it or figure it out does not mean it does not exist. Markets are interesting in that while they aggregate information they do so via the price--i.e. markets do not tell you why the price moves, only that the price has moved. In other words, you are engaging in post hoc ergo propter hoc and circular reasoning, IMO.
Quote:I already said that there will be even more demand for PLEX when all ppl having less than 1000 AUR realize that without buying a PLEX their AUR will be wasted.
And this condition is no longer true.
And CCP said the reason they were not initially going to convert lower Aurum amounts was to avoid adversely affecting the PLEX market--i.e. drive prices down. Now, it turns out those lower amounts WILL BE converted meaning the supply in the future will go up which will decrease the price all other factors held constant (yes a huge assumption).
And what do we see, now that the PLEX sale is over prices are going back up....so now that crap you wrote means we should not be seeing this.
Or this load of crap where you simply assume your knife's edge argument with line of Bravo Sierra,
Quote:The increase in prices by 20% with pretty much the same quantity of traded items means that there was both a decrease in supply and increase in demand for PLEX over those 2 weeks.
Dingbat, there is no explanation there. None. It is a statement necessary to maintain your view that there was a leak. "There was a leak and because volume did not change both supply and demand had to change just so, so that there was no change in volume." That is the entirety of your argument.
Here is an idea...how often does CCP have sales for PLEX? I honestly don't know. Do they do it frequently? Could some people who play in the PLEX market as speculators be keeping track of that? I know some EVE players do some crazy **** when it comes to making ISK...maybe?
Naw, lets just full on bonkers with the conspriarcy.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6304
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:35:43 -
[296] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Girka Kring wrote:What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously. What would cause them to think that the announcement would cause a spike in PLEX prices? The initial decision that all AUR below 1000 will be erased, so ppl below 1000 AUR bought PLEX to get AUR above 1000. Then after CCP changed their mind it was already too late, PLEXes were bought and a new, higher price equilibrium was reached. It was also established that there was no other reason for the PLEX price to jump at that moment. There was no increase in active accounts number so the theory about rorqual pilots switching to multiboxing hulks was invalid.
Then why are prices still going up now that the sale is over?
Especially now that Aurum below 1,000 is to be converted too just at a later date.
And why would I buy PLEX to get my 300 Aurum over 1,000? Why not just buy Aurum and wait?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
121
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:48:51 -
[297] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Girka Kring wrote:What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously. What would cause them to think that the announcement would cause a spike in PLEX prices? The initial decision that all AUR below 1000 will be erased, so ppl below 1000 AUR bought PLEX to get AUR above 1000. Then after CCP changed their mind it was already too late, PLEXes were bought and a new, higher price equilibrium was reached. It was also established that there was no other reason for the PLEX price to jump at that moment. There was no increase in active accounts number so the theory about rorqual pilots switching to multiboxing hulks was invalid.
CCP was very clear that this change won't take place for months. Why would people suddenly run out to beef up their AUR immediately following the announcement? Especially given that they'd be buying PLEX to get a lesser amount of PLEX? And again - there was no substantive increase in trade volume either before or after the announcement to support such a contention. People DID NOT run out to buy PLEX to beef up their AUR (primarily because that would be a stupid thing to do).
It's also far offset by the fact that CCP is going to dump all of that AUR back on the market as PLEX and virtually eliminate PvP PLEX losses due to the PLEX Locker. CCP's biggest problem is going to be preventing PLEX prices from falling too much after this change.
Are you telling me with a straight face that had you had advance notice of this announcement that you would have bought up a bunch of PLEX? It makes no sense.
The PLEX prices moved because economics. Prices move all the time for reasons that aren't simple and aren't obvious. Previous examples of this in the PLEX market have been well documented in this thread. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
578
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:58:03 -
[298] - Quote
Speculation happens, corruption happens, CSM is only good for those big alliances, the general public as always is left paying the bill, not much we can do doo. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6305
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 19:58:14 -
[299] - Quote
I want to also point out that this conspiracy has lots of hidden assumptions:
1.That the conspirators went to both the buyers and the sellers.
2.That they convinced the buyers and the sellers to buy PLEX/remove PLEX so that that the market price goes up and yet the volume is largely unchanged. At least until people not in the conspiracy notice the price increase and enter the market having bought PLEX for RL money and start selling them, thus under-cutting the conspirators.
3.There is some sort of enforcement mechanism to keep the participants from both blabbing and not stabbing each other in the back (e.g. buying up a lot too early, or dumping PLEX stocks onto the market).
Basically this story has all the problems inherent in a cartel. How to keep the cartel members from GÇ£chiselingGÇ¥ on the cartel arrangement, especially when monitoring is quite hard/costly.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6305
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 20:01:20 -
[300] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Speculation happens, corruption happens, CSM is only good for those big alliances, the general public as always is left paying the bill, not much we can do doo.
Working like all voting mechanisms.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
|
Cade Windstalker
1215
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 20:16:36 -
[301] - Quote
Girka Kring wrote:Why are you linking your own post? Just read what others already wrote about this. What caused the shift in supply? Again, read the topic. Confidential info that leaked caused the shift in both demand and supply. Ppl who knew that PLEX will be 20% more expensive in a few days decided either to not sell PLEX and wait or to buy PLEX when they are still cheap. Obviously. It seems like you assume there was neither demand, nor supply changed. I'm really curious how do you explain 20% higher prices with same volume. That's right, you don't.
Okay the fact that this idea is still holding on to dear life is mildly insulting to the intelligence of this entire community. Eve is supposed to be a game of people who are *good* at economics and rational thinking.
First off, you still have no evidence of any leak, or of any kind of insider trading. As half this thread has pointed out to you the announced PLEX changes will push prices down and you've been able to point to nothing that's actually driving prices up, let alone a connection beyond a vague one in time to the current rise in prices.
As for the actual economics, I've pulled some data from our dear Fuzzysteve's site going back to October of last year, before the Ascension patch hit and the price dropped in the first place. This seems like a good time to reitterate that patches tend to send the price of PLEX running off in one direction or another as people react to the patch.
I took that data, pasted it into a spreadsheet, and calculated a 7 day rolling average for volume, Average Price, and number of orders. I then normalized the price down to thousands of ISK so it would display nicely on the same graph with the quantities and number of orders.
This is the graph that produced.
Note how the Average Price goes up and down more or less inversely with the number of orders and the volume of PLEX being bought and sold on the market.
This shows that Supply and Demand are working normally, this whole wonky theory that Supply hasn't changed is bunk, and a drop in supply is *very clearly* driving the spike in prices.
This is why we graph things and check our assumptions instead of just eyeballing some tiny little volume lines and deciding they look about the same. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10699
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 20:27:27 -
[302] - Quote
PLEX prices fluctuate based on the same concerns and emotions that cause fluctuations in the real life marketplace.
Greed, panic, fear, ignorance, idiocy, etc.
This thread has probably done more to shift buying patterns than anything the CSM did.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6306
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 20:56:52 -
[303] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:PLEX prices fluctuate based on the same concerns and emotions that cause fluctuations in the real life marketplace. Greed, panic, fear, ignorance, idiocy, etc. This thread has probably done more to shift buying patterns than anything the CSM did. Mr Epeen
I was wondering that too.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6593
|
Posted - 2017.04.03 23:02:17 -
[304] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Speculation happens, corruption happens, CSM is only good for those big alliances, the general public as always is left paying the bill, not much we can do doo. Well, you could always vote for someone.
It's entirely possible for someone to be elected without the support of a big alliance.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6311
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 06:17:36 -
[305] - Quote
Well, I must have talked some sense into the conspirators or something, looks like they might be abandoning their grand scheme of cornering the PLEX market or whatever it was, prices appear to have stopped going up and are down about 6 million ISK from last time I checked.
[/sarcasm]
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
2122
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 06:36:26 -
[306] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Speculation happens, corruption happens, CSM is only good for those big alliances, the general public as always is left paying the bill, not much we can do doo. Well, you could always vote for someone. ... who might be another face for the same "big alliance".
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6311
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 06:37:25 -
[307] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Piugattuk wrote:Speculation happens, corruption happens, CSM is only good for those big alliances, the general public as always is left paying the bill, not much we can do doo. Well, you could always vote for someone. ... who might be another face for the same "big alliance".
I keep saying, like how voting mechanisms are supposed to work....
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Brigadine Ferathine
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
171
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 15:50:29 -
[308] - Quote
Sullen Decimus wrote:This entire thread is ******* hilarious. You're literally spewing **** while shooting yourself in the foot for your own arguments you're presenting. Before I get to that though if we leaked anything why the hell wouldn't we have done it months ago? We were never informed when this dev blog was even going up. So there is no way we would have known about it going up the days leading up. Now how your'e literally wrong and proved it yourself. This image has been linked in the forum already http://i.imgur.com/69fHmVs.png You point to the 20% increase as us buying up the market. Here's the thing. see those blue bars across the bottom? Those are the daily volume traded. Notice how it literally didn't change at all during the increase. It actually had a small decrease! So you're argument is shot. There is no backing of it at all. In fact, it supports we didn't leak anything because the market volume didn't change at all. PLEX is known to have waterfall effects in it's price so if anything it's much more likely plex sellers started to see the price going up (from natural market fluctuation) and decided to hold their plex while it was rising as any knowledgeable market person would do. This happens all the time in this market. Also IF WE DID leak anything, plex is one of the single easiest items to track. Our accounts/alts are the most scrutinized in the game. Even if we told friends about it to get a benefit that **** is easy to track. Your argument is dead. Leave it in the grave and lay off the conspiracy koolaide awhile. Like you would be dumb enough to do it in game... Every spy knows you use exterior comms to do things like that. You lashing out just makes me more suspicious. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
127
|
Posted - 2017.04.04 16:53:38 -
[309] - Quote
Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Like you would be dumb enough to do it in game... Every spy knows you use exterior comms to do things like that. You lashing out just makes me more suspicious.
I find your finger pointing to be even more suspicious. As they say, "Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations." I always get suspicious when people make accusations without evidence of any kind. You're clearly trying to create a smokescreen to hide something. |
Cade Windstalker
1227
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 03:07:14 -
[310] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Brigadine Ferathine wrote:Like you would be dumb enough to do it in game... Every spy knows you use exterior comms to do things like that. You lashing out just makes me more suspicious. I find your finger pointing to be even more suspicious. As they say, "Admit nothing, deny everything and make counter accusations." I always get suspicious when people make accusations without evidence of any kind. You're clearly trying to create a smokescreen to hide something.
The irony is strong with this post... |
|
Salvos Rhoska
2663
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 07:20:04 -
[311] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? . Info may have nonetheless been leaked, contributing in some extent to the timing and magnitude of the spike.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6344
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 07:45:50 -
[312] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? . Info may have nonetheless been leaked, contributing in some extent to the timing and magnitude of the spike. For example if info had been leaked to me, and me alone, you would have seen almost zero effect on the plex market, cos I lack capital to act much on the info. But nonetheless, there would have been an info leak.
There is no reason to believe other than "It might have happened." That is really really thin. You could say that pretty much of every CSM. Lets put them under continuous investigation.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Salvos Rhoska
2663
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 07:53:52 -
[313] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? . Info may have nonetheless been leaked, contributing in some extent to the timing and magnitude of the spike. For example if info had been leaked to me, and me alone, you would have seen almost zero effect on the plex market, cos I lack capital to act much on the info. But nonetheless, there would have been an info leak. There is no reason to believe other than "It might have happened." That is really really thin. You could say that pretty much of every CSM. Lets put them under continuous investigation.
Not an issue of belief. The issue is its a real and constant risk regarding all inside info CCP shares with CSM. No need for constant investigation, just oversight and vigilance.
Its a rare person that has never revealed a secret whilst drunk, unwary or for personal benefit.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6344
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 08:02:38 -
[314] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? . Info may have nonetheless been leaked, contributing in some extent to the timing and magnitude of the spike. For example if info had been leaked to me, and me alone, you would have seen almost zero effect on the plex market, cos I lack capital to act much on the info. But nonetheless, there would have been an info leak. There is no reason to believe other than "It might have happened." That is really really thin. You could say that pretty much of every CSM. Lets put them under continuous investigation. Not an issue of belief. The issue is its a real and constant risk regarding all inside info CCP shares with CSM. No need for constant investigation, just oversight and vigilance. Its a rare person that has never revealed a secret whilst drunk, unwary or for personal benefit.
As noted already, the CSM accounts are already highly scrutinized. Seems reasonable to me that CCP would do that for CSM members.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Salvos Rhoska
2667
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 08:29:08 -
[315] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:As noted already, the CSM accounts are already highly scrutinized. Seems reasonable to me that CCP would do that for CSM members.
I hope so.
Trust no one in EVE, that includes CSMs, even moreso.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6344
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 08:30:00 -
[316] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:As noted already, the CSM accounts are already highly scrutinized. Seems reasonable to me that CCP would do that for CSM members. I hope so. Trust no one in EVE, that includes CSMs, even moreso.
Well of course.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
131
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 14:03:09 -
[317] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? . Info may have nonetheless been leaked, contributing in some extent to the timing and magnitude of the spike. For example if info had been leaked to me, and me alone, you would have seen almost zero effect on the plex market, cos I lack capital to act much on the info. But nonetheless, there would have been an info leak.
Had info been leaked to you or me, we also would have sold PLEX, driving the price down - not bought it up. That's the logical disconnect in the leak theory that you're simply refusing to accept. Prices did spike, but there wasn't anything in the announcement that would have led anyone to believe that they would. |
Salvos Rhoska
2678
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 15:29:12 -
[318] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:How about 15 pages of analysis demonstrating that there is no logic or economic rationale for blaming the spike on insider trading? . Info may have nonetheless been leaked, contributing in some extent to the timing and magnitude of the spike. For example if info had been leaked to me, and me alone, you would have seen almost zero effect on the plex market, cos I lack capital to act much on the info. But nonetheless, there would have been an info leak. Had info been leaked to you or me, we also would have sold PLEX, driving the price down - not bought it up. That's the logical disconnect in the leak theory that you're simply refusing to accept. Prices did spike, but there wasn't anything in the announcement that would have led anyone to believe that they would.
I would have bought it, not sold it.
If I had trillions, I would have bought PLEX at 1bil as it was to no end.
Having a bank of x/500 units of PLEX is much better than a single PLEX. Allows me to compete per unit, rather than per lump PLEX. I can -0.01isk much more efficiently, whilst players fight to get 500 PLEX units for sub.
Also, as a smaller operator, that I can sell only as much PLEX as I need in isk, rather than selling it all at once.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
131
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 15:49:19 -
[319] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I would have bought it, not sold it.
If I had trillions, I would have bought PLEX at 1bil as it was to no end.
Having a bank of x/500 units of PLEX is much better than a single PLEX. Allows me to compete per unit, rather than per lump PLEX. I can -0.01isk much more efficiently, whilst players fight to get 500 PLEX units for sub.
Also, as a smaller operator, that I can sell only as much PLEX as I need in isk, rather than selling it all at once.
Stock splits in the stock market (which is basically what this is) demonstrate that such a theory is misguided. No broker, analyst or financial advisor recommends buying stock before a split. They also don't recommend against it because they have decades worth of data proving that it makes no difference either way. There has never been a real life example of insider trading based on prior knowledge of a stock split announcement because that information alone is largely useless.
Not to mention that any perceived advantage would be negated by the other elements announced by CCP (Aurum conversion and PLEX Lockers) which will increase the supply of PLEX on the market, which will drive prices down. |
Salvos Rhoska
2679
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 16:03:35 -
[320] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:I would have bought it, not sold it.
If I had trillions, I would have bought PLEX at 1bil as it was to no end.
Having a bank of x/500 units of PLEX is much better than a single PLEX. Allows me to compete per unit, rather than per lump PLEX. I can -0.01isk much more efficiently, whilst players fight to get 500 PLEX units for sub.
Also, as a smaller operator, that I can sell only as much PLEX as I need in isk, rather than selling it all at once. Stock splits in the stock market (which is basically what this is) demonstrate that such a theory is misguided. No broker, analyst or financial advisor recommends buying stock before a split. They also don't recommend against it because they have decades worth of data proving that it makes no difference either way. There has never been a real life example of insider trading based on prior knowledge of a stock split announcement because that information alone is largely useless. Not to mention that any perceived advantage would be negated by the other elements announced by CCP (Aurum conversion and PLEX Lockers) which will increase the supply of PLEX on the market, which will drive prices down.
A) Stocksplits are almost always followed by greater net dividends. I have made a lot of money on that. (Not to mention an ideal moment to buy up the split stock cheap)
B) The announcement came after the spike.
C) It is far better to have 500 units that comprise a service in total, than a single unit.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
131
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 17:02:40 -
[321] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: A) Stocksplits are almost always followed by greater net dividends. I have made a lot of money on that. (Not to mention an ideal moment to buy up the split stock cheap)
B) The announcement came after the spike.
C) It is far better to have 500 units that comprise a service in total, than a single unit. Its far easier to sell x/500, than 500, and far easier to find markets that will buy less at a time (albeit at a mark up).
A. Wow...no. You're talking out of your ass now. You just firmly demonstrated that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The dividend is always split along with the stock! ALWAYS. That's money that comes directly from the company so they always endeavor to keep the total payout flat. You don't make extra money on dividends after a split. Not ever. There's also the little matter of the fact that PLEX doesn't pay dividends, so it has no bearing on this discussion anyway. So not only is it a blatant lie that you made money that way, it's a useless lie. Stick to flawed logic - at least you can be wrong with some honor that way.
B. Exactly. The spike had NOTHING to do with the announcement.
C. That part is the only true thing you've said. Stocks split to bring smaller investors on board. But it doesn't drive prices up. Smaller units only have the affect of binging more people into the market, thus increasing volume. But that volume still follows the same market trends. More shares tend to smooth out the peaks and valleys, but they don't drive it one way or the other.
I continue to be amazed that against all facts, against all logic and against all evidence, there are some people who insist on continuing to follow this ridiculous insider trading conspiracy theory. It seems we truly do exist in a post-fact society in which the only thing driving beliefs are pre-existing beliefs. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6347
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 19:17:57 -
[322] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:
A. Wow...no. You're talking out of your ass now. You just firmly demonstrated that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The dividend is always split along with the stock! ALWAYS. That's money that comes directly from the company so they always endeavor to keep the total payout flat. You don't make extra money on dividends after a split. Not ever. There's also the little matter of the fact that PLEX doesn't pay dividends, so it has no bearing on this discussion anyway. So not only is it a blatant lie that you made money that way, it's a useless lie. Stick to flawed logic - at least you can be wrong with some honor that way.
Don't you have a ceterius paribus assumption there? All other things equal, dividend split = stock split.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
131
|
Posted - 2017.04.05 20:19:51 -
[323] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Don't you have a ceterius paribus assumption there? All other things equal, dividend split = stock split.
Well, in theory it doesn't have to. If a company has, let's say, 1,000,000 shares outstanding and is paying a cash dividend of $1.00 per share (or an equivalent stock dividend), that's $1m in dividends. If they announce a 2:1 stock split that increases available shares to 2m, they CAN continue the same $1 dividend policy, but that then costs them a total of $2m in dividend payments. So the reality is that they always split the dividend yield at the same rate as the stock split to maintain a level payout (in this example the yield would drop to $0.50). But splitting the stock shares and splitting the dividend yield are still two independent actions. In many cases, company bylaws even require the board to vote on them separately even though they're linked. |
Salvos Rhoska
2685
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 07:30:42 -
[324] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:A. Wow...no. You're talking out of your ass now. You just firmly demonstrated that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The dividend is always split along with the stock! ALWAYS. That's money that comes directly from the company so they always endeavor to keep the total payout flat. You don't make extra money on dividends after a split. Not ever.
You misread.
I was saying that concurrent to stock splits, company boards very often vote for a greater dividend payout per unit.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Lamajagarn McMyra
No Vacancies No Vacancies.
20
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 13:47:56 -
[325] - Quote
I believe more in the rorqual nerf theory and general inflation rather than some insider leak. Judging by the last economy report: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Feb_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png it to me looks like the average monthly isk generation has increased explosively compared to the sinks, as more isk is injected the value of isk to real world currency obviously decreases.
Save us CCP Fozzie, ratting is way to safe! |
Cade Windstalker
1239
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 13:52:19 -
[326] - Quote
Lamajagarn McMyra wrote:I believe more in the rorqual nerf theory and general inflation rather than some insider leak. Judging by the last economy report: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Feb_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png it to me looks like the average monthly isk generation has increased explosively compared to the sinks, as more isk is injected the value of isk to real world currency obviously decreases. Save us CCP Fozzie, ratting is way to safe!
Actually if you'd care to take a look at the rest of the MER you'll note that while ISK generated from ratting is up over that same period the actual money supply was relatively flat especially compared to historical trends. So while it's not intuitive from those graphs sinks and faucets are actually more in balance now than they've ever been, at least in the last five years or so.
This is probably at least in part due to the tax and Broker fee changes introduced with Citadel that have been taking a larger percentage of each transaction out of the economy. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
132
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:08:30 -
[327] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:A. Wow...no. You're talking out of your ass now. You just firmly demonstrated that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The dividend is always split along with the stock! ALWAYS. That's money that comes directly from the company so they always endeavor to keep the total payout flat. You don't make extra money on dividends after a split. Not ever. A) You misread. I was saying that concurrent to stock splits, company boards very often vote for a greater dividend payout per unit. B) The spike apparently came concurrent to CSM being informed of the changes launch day. D) CSM are EVE players. I dont trust them anymore than I do you. Golden Rule applies.
A. BS. That's extraordinarily rare because it further muddies some already muddy accounting numbers around splits. I can't think of a single example. Name one company in the past 10 years that has announced a dividend increase that took effect at the same time as a split. Of course if you made so much money off of it, you should be able to give several examples.
Not to mention that they lock in the share record dates to prevent people from profiting off of it.
And also, once again PLEX doesn't have dividends so this particular point is meaningless to begin with. Please explain how dividends have anything to do with this topic.
B. You're mixing correlation and causality and then throwing in a healthy dose of circular reasoning. You can't point to a causal connection that makes any sense.
Insider trading only works if you KNOW with certainty how the market is going to react to the news. The fact that we're even debating this demonstrates that such a causal connection doesn't exist. With advance knowledge of the announcement, you say you'd buy, I say I'd sell. We cancel each other out. That doesn't drive a demand spike.
D. Nor should you. But villainizing the CSMs or CCP without evidence or at least a logical argument is worse. This is just nonsensical hysteria. |
Salvos Rhoska
2686
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:14:25 -
[328] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:A. Wow...no. You're talking out of your ass now. You just firmly demonstrated that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The dividend is always split along with the stock! ALWAYS. That's money that comes directly from the company so they always endeavor to keep the total payout flat. You don't make extra money on dividends after a split. Not ever. A) You misread. I was saying that concurrent to stock splits, company boards very often vote for a greater dividend payout per unit. B) The spike apparently came concurrent to CSM being informed of the changes launch day. D) CSM are EVE players. I dont trust them anymore than I do you. Golden Rule applies. A. BS. That's extraordinarily rare because it further muddies some already muddy accounting numbers around splits. I can't think of a single example. Name one company in the past 10 years that has announced a dividend increase that took effect at the same time as a split. Of course if you made so much money off of it, you should be able to give several examples. Not to mention that they lock in the share record dates to prevent people from profiting off of it. And also, once again PLEX doesn't have dividends so this particular point is meaningless to begin with. Please explain how dividends have anything to do with this topic. B. You're mixing correlation and causality and then throwing in a healthy dose of circular reasoning. You can't point to a causal connection that makes any sense. Insider trading only works if you KNOW with certainty how the market is going to react to the news. The fact that we're even debating this demonstrates that such a causal connection doesn't exist. With advance knowledge of the announcement, you say you'd buy, I say I'd sell. We cancel each other out. That doesn't drive a demand spike. D. Nor should you. But villainizing the CSMs or CCP without evidence or at least a logical argument is worse. This is just nonsensical hysteria.
A) W+ñrtsil+ñ
B) The spike coincided with the time that CSMs apparently where told the change would be implemented. The market did not know about it.
D) No "villianization". Just a call for investigation of whether CSM are leaking information.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
132
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 14:54:15 -
[329] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:A. Wow...no. You're talking out of your ass now. You just firmly demonstrated that you don't have the first clue what you're talking about. The dividend is always split along with the stock! ALWAYS. That's money that comes directly from the company so they always endeavor to keep the total payout flat. You don't make extra money on dividends after a split. Not ever. A) You misread. I was saying that concurrent to stock splits, company boards very often vote for a greater dividend payout per unit. B) The spike apparently came concurrent to CSM being informed of the changes launch day. D) CSM are EVE players. I dont trust them anymore than I do you. Golden Rule applies. A. BS. That's extraordinarily rare because it further muddies some already muddy accounting numbers around splits. I can't think of a single example. Name one company in the past 10 years that has announced a dividend increase that took effect at the same time as a split. Of course if you made so much money off of it, you should be able to give several examples. Not to mention that they lock in the share record dates to prevent people from profiting off of it. And also, once again PLEX doesn't have dividends so this particular point is meaningless to begin with. Please explain how dividends have anything to do with this topic. B. You're mixing correlation and causality and then throwing in a healthy dose of circular reasoning. You can't point to a causal connection that makes any sense. Insider trading only works if you KNOW with certainty how the market is going to react to the news. The fact that we're even debating this demonstrates that such a causal connection doesn't exist. With advance knowledge of the announcement, you say you'd buy, I say I'd sell. We cancel each other out. That doesn't drive a demand spike. D. Nor should you. But villainizing the CSMs or CCP without evidence or at least a logical argument is worse. This is just nonsensical hysteria. A) W+ñrtsil+ñ Plex pays no dividends not did I claim it did. The point of stock splits and decisions on dividends was pertinent to insider information IRL, as raised by you in the post to which I was responding. You started talking about IRL rather than PLEX, not I. I simply responded to that. B) The spike coincided with the time that CSMs apparently where told the change would be implemented. The market did not know about it. D) No "villianization". Just a call for investigation of whether CSM are leaking information.
A. Except that was a one-time extraordinary dividend that paid out in 2011 based on PRE-SPLIT share holdings. The ordinary dividend was held constant and then split along with the shares. There was no additional money to be gained buying up shares before the split.
You can in fact make money IRL with insider information about a dividend yield increase or an extraordinary dividend payout because you can get in before the record date. But you CAN'T make money with insider information about a stock split. This announcement by CCP was effectively announcing a stock split - that's not something you can make money on IRL or in the game.
The other elements of the announcement (Aurum conversion and PLEX Locker) CAN drive the market - but only down.
B. You're missing my point. Let me type slowly so that you can follow: If you and I are both CSMs and we know this announcement is coming, you decide to buy up a bunch of PLEX based on ??????. But I decide to sell all of my PLEX holdings because I think this is going to cause the PLEX market to decline over the long-term. All other things being equal, we cancel each other out. That advance notice didn't drive the market one way or the other because we disagree on its expected effect and take opposite actions. |
Salvos Rhoska
2689
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 19:37:11 -
[330] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:If you and I are both CSMs and we know this announcement is coming, you decide to buy up a bunch of PLEX based on ??????. But I decide to sell all of my PLEX holdings because I think this is going to cause the PLEX market to decline over the long-term. All other things being equal, we cancel each other out. That advance notice didn't drive the market one way or the other because we disagree on its expected effect and take opposite actions.
This isnt about CSMs having taken market action on PLEX as a result of what they knew.
Its about the possibility that information may have been leaked by CSM.
Do you see the difference?
The timing of the spike is suspect.
As in your previous post, you stated that insider information only works if you can with certainty predict how the market will react.
This spike happened BEFORE the announcement was made public, before the market knew/reacted, and apparently concurrently with this being revealed to CSM internally.
Furthermore, this notion that you and I would cancel each other out, contravenes your statement above. If we both know, and only you and I know, what will happen before the market knows it (insider info), and know with certainty how the market will react, why would we choose differently?
As privy to that insider info, and certain prediction of how the market will react, in advance, we will ofc both opt for the same choice of action. We will not cancel each other.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
133
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 19:58:07 -
[331] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote: If you and I are both CSMs. This isnt about CSMs having taken market action on PLEX as a result of what they knew. Its about the possibility that information may have been leaked by CSM. Do you see the difference? The timing of the spike is suspect.
The result is the same. If we're both best buds with a CSM and he tells us about this impending change, you still buy and I still sell. We still cancel each other out and It still doesn't drive the market.
Do you see how there is no difference?
I find it suspicious that the spike coincided with a new moon. I can't offer any causal connection between the two - just a correlation. But that's apparently good enough for you. Should we instigate a lunar investigation? |
Salvos Rhoska
2689
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 20:02:20 -
[332] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote: If you and I are both CSMs. This isnt about CSMs having taken market action on PLEX as a result of what they knew. Its about the possibility that information may have been leaked by CSM. Do you see the difference? The timing of the spike is suspect. The result is the same. If we're both best buds with a CSM and he tells us about this impending change, you still buy and I still sell. We still cancel each other out and It still doesn't drive the market.
Reload your page and read the rest of my post.
If you and I have the same insider info, and the same certain prediction of how the market will react, we will take the same action.
There is no "cancelling out". We would make the same choice of action (excluding you perhaps being an idiot and making the wrong choice).
Furthermore, both of us will have acted well before the market reacts, or even has cause to react, to the impending change our insider info makes us privy to in advance of it happening.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
133
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 20:07:34 -
[333] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote: If you and I are both CSMs. This isnt about CSMs having taken market action on PLEX as a result of what they knew. Its about the possibility that information may have been leaked by CSM. Do you see the difference? The timing of the spike is suspect. The result is the same. If we're both best buds with a CSM and he tells us about this impending change, you still buy and I still sell. We still cancel each other out and It still doesn't drive the market. Reload your page and read the rest of my post. If you and I have the same insider info, and the same certain prediction of how the market will react, we will take the same action. There is no "cancelling out". We would make the same choice of action (excluding you perhaps being an idiot and making the wrong choice). Furthermore, both of us will have acted well before the market reacts, or even has cause to react, to the impending change our insider info makes us privy to in advance of it happening.
Yeah, I saw that afterward and edited. But nobody is telling us that the PLEX market will spike because nobody knows that - including CCP. The only thing knowable is that PLEX prices will split, Aurem will be converted and they are introducing a PLEX Locker. It's up to us to decide what that means in terms of the PLEX market and we are free to arrive at different conclusions that cancel each other out.
What do you think somebody could tell me 3 weeks ago that would have made me by PLEX? Certainly nothing having to do with this announcement. |
Cade Windstalker
1243
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 20:19:53 -
[334] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:If you and I are both CSMs and we know this announcement is coming, you decide to buy up a bunch of PLEX based on ??????. But I decide to sell all of my PLEX holdings because I think this is going to cause the PLEX market to decline over the long-term. All other things being equal, we cancel each other out. That advance notice didn't drive the market one way or the other because we disagree on its expected effect and take opposite actions. This isnt about CSMs having taken market action on PLEX as a result of what they knew. Its about the possibility that information may have been leaked by CSM. Do you see the difference? The timing of the spike is suspect. That it can be explained with alternatives, makes it no less suspect. As in your previous post, you stated that insider information only works if you can with certainty predict how the market will react. This spike happened BEFORE the announcement was made public, before the market knew/reacted, and apparently concurrently with this being revealed to CSM internally. Furthermore, this notion that you and I would cancel each other out, contravenes your statement above. If we both know, and only you and I know, what will happen before the market knows it (insider info), and know with certainty how the market will react, why would we choose differently? As privy to that same insider info, and same certain prediction of how the market will react, in advance, we will ofc both opt for the same choice of action. We will not cancel each other. Furthermore, we would both act before the market does, or the market even has cause to act. PS: Good research on W+ñrtsil+ñ. PPS: No, I did not have insider information to make money off it ;) Just did my homework and due diligence.
This all being based on the assumption that the current changes in PLEX are based entirely on this announcement, which is laughable.
The sharp spike corresponds almost perfectly to the patch notes being released, and the early creep up corresponds to the shift in Rorqual drone prices from word getting around about the Rorqual nerfs.
There has been zero evidence presented that anything leaked from the CSM, there's not even any particularly compelling evidence that the current PLEX market has been significantly affected by this announced change, considering it's over 6 months in the future from now.
Given this it's far more reasonable to assume that the PLEX market changed as a result of the patch, not as a result of some hypothetical and completely unsupported theory about leaked info.
Oh and there's a hole in your argument here. You're glossing over the bit where you have to know how the market will react by just assuming that can be predicted, but as several people have pointed out the short term impact of a change like this is going to be a drop in prices, making this spike a poor bet to be making. Also as I showed earlier the supply of PLEX was down and there was no spike in demand before the spike in price, indicating that people simply weren't selling as much PLEX.
So yeah, this whole argument is poor. Salvos I'd think even your normal trollish behavior was more intelligent than this crap. |
Salvos Rhoska
2691
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 20:32:54 -
[335] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:So yeah, this whole argument is poor. Salvos I'd think even your normal trollish behavior was more intelligent than this crap. Comments like this just encourage me even more that Im following the smoke to the fire.
Ill respond to the rest tomorrow.
PvE v PvP
<>
Old School Exploration
<>
CODE Licenses
<>
CODE Special Agent
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6367
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 20:35:55 -
[336] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Don't you have a ceterius paribus assumption there? All other things equal, dividend split = stock split. Well, in theory it doesn't have to. If a company has, let's say, 1,000,000 shares outstanding and is paying a cash dividend of $1.00 per share (or an equivalent stock dividend), that's $1m in dividends. If they announce a 2:1 stock split that increases available shares to 2m, they CAN continue the same $1 dividend policy, but that then costs them a total of $2m in dividend payments. So the reality is that they always split the dividend yield at the same rate as the stock split to maintain a level payout (in this example the yield would drop to $0.50). But splitting the stock shares and splitting the dividend yield are still two independent actions. In many cases, company bylaws even require the board to vote on them separately even though they're linked.
No I get that, but the dividend is not solely a function of the number of shares. So the question is, are stock splits correlated with things that tend to increase dividends.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6367
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 20:43:54 -
[337] - Quote
Lamajagarn McMyra wrote:I believe more in the rorqual nerf theory and general inflation rather than some insider leak. Judging by the last economy report: http://cdn1.eveonline.com/community/MER/Feb_2017/9aaa_top.sinks.faucets.over.time.png it to me looks like the average monthly isk generation has increased explosively compared to the sinks, as more isk is injected the value of isk to real world currency obviously decreases. Save us CCP Fozzie, ratting is way to safe!
And yet we have deflation in game. Just having more ISK entering the game does not mean that it has to result in inflation. See you are looking at the gross money supply--i.e. counting up all the ISK in game. But, you also need to factor in what CCP Quant calls the Active ISK delta. See here. That is ISK that is effectively sunk out of game by players leaving and GM actions.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
134
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 21:00:24 -
[338] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Zarek Kree wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Don't you have a ceterius paribus assumption there? All other things equal, dividend split = stock split. Well, in theory it doesn't have to. If a company has, let's say, 1,000,000 shares outstanding and is paying a cash dividend of $1.00 per share (or an equivalent stock dividend), that's $1m in dividends. If they announce a 2:1 stock split that increases available shares to 2m, they CAN continue the same $1 dividend policy, but that then costs them a total of $2m in dividend payments. So the reality is that they always split the dividend yield at the same rate as the stock split to maintain a level payout (in this example the yield would drop to $0.50). But splitting the stock shares and splitting the dividend yield are still two independent actions. In many cases, company bylaws even require the board to vote on them separately even though they're linked. No I get that, but the dividend is not solely a function of the number of shares. So the question is, are stock splits correlated with things that tend to increase dividends.
I suppose there is some correlation over an investment horizon of several years. Stocks split because their share prices have gone up substantially over time - typically due to good performance. Companies also frequently increase dividends due to good performance as well. But the causal factor for both is still rooted in good performance. And good performance is reflected in fundamentals long before it reveals itself in a split or yield. |
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
134
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 21:04:25 -
[339] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:So yeah, this whole argument is poor. Salvos I'd think even your normal trollish behavior was more intelligent than this crap. Comments like this just encourage me even more that Im following the smoke to the fire. Ill respond to the rest tomorrow.
That smoke you think you see is your own cloudy vision. |
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
230
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 21:26:51 -
[340] - Quote
Well, the results of the CSM 12 election is in and it appears not much is going to change. Large Null sec groups will still get their inside intelligence about CCP plans way before the general public and SOME,despite NDA contracts, will take advantage of it. High -sec appears to be once again orphaned in representation and with few in the new CSM who will champion their concerns. Heck, the organized groups even re-elected someone who had a 14% attendance record for CSM 11 meetings.
The CSM, in it's current election process incarnation, is a joke that doesn't benefit the majority of the players and, instead, is merely a method where Null and Lo -sec alliances get to epeen and gather/exploit intel for their own benefit. To those CSM members past and present who actually did make the meetings and worked for the benefit of all EVE players, you have my gratitude and thanks....I just wish there were more of you.
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
|
|
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6368
|
Posted - 2017.04.06 23:13:16 -
[341] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:This is the graph that produced.Note how the Average Price goes up and down more or less inversely with the number of orders and the volume of PLEX being bought and sold on the market. This shows that Supply and Demand are working normally, this whole wonky theory that Supply hasn't changed is bunk, and a drop in supply is *very clearly* driving the spike in prices. This is why we graph things and check our assumptions instead of just eyeballing some tiny little volume lines and deciding they look about the same.
Interesting. When the price is higher the volume is lower. In fact, it looks as if the price movements are primarily supply driven unless I'm mistaken. For there to be an increase in price and a decrease in volume traded, suggests an inward shift of the supply function. Looks like there might be a lag effect as well.
If my conjecture is right, then I am having an even harder time fitting this into any sort of conspiracy to make ISK out of this.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
135
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 00:26:54 -
[342] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:This is the graph that produced.Note how the Average Price goes up and down more or less inversely with the number of orders and the volume of PLEX being bought and sold on the market. This shows that Supply and Demand are working normally, this whole wonky theory that Supply hasn't changed is bunk, and a drop in supply is *very clearly* driving the spike in prices. This is why we graph things and check our assumptions instead of just eyeballing some tiny little volume lines and deciding they look about the same. Interesting. When the price is higher the volume is lower. In fact, it looks as if the price movements are primarily supply driven unless I'm mistaken. For there to be an increase in price and a decrease in volume traded, suggests an inward shift of the supply function. Looks like there might be a lag effect as well. If my conjecture is right, then I am having an even harder time fitting this into any sort of conspiracy to make ISK out of this.
Yeah, the inverse relationship between price and volume is really interesting because it's so consistent over time. I couldn't quite connect the dots on why that would be. If the price is generally a reflection of supply, then it makes some degree of sense to me. I've been assuming that it had something to do with the total amount of PLEX on the market being player driven (through real money purchases). But this is an area that I don't have the economic chops to properly visualize. |
Teckos Pech
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6368
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 00:35:20 -
[343] - Quote
Zarek Kree wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:This is the graph that produced.Note how the Average Price goes up and down more or less inversely with the number of orders and the volume of PLEX being bought and sold on the market. This shows that Supply and Demand are working normally, this whole wonky theory that Supply hasn't changed is bunk, and a drop in supply is *very clearly* driving the spike in prices. This is why we graph things and check our assumptions instead of just eyeballing some tiny little volume lines and deciding they look about the same. Interesting. When the price is higher the volume is lower. In fact, it looks as if the price movements are primarily supply driven unless I'm mistaken. For there to be an increase in price and a decrease in volume traded, suggests an inward shift of the supply function. Looks like there might be a lag effect as well. If my conjecture is right, then I am having an even harder time fitting this into any sort of conspiracy to make ISK out of this. Yeah, the inverse relationship between price and volume is really interesting because it's so consistent over time. I couldn't quite connect the dots on why that would be. If the price is generally a reflection of supply, then it makes some degree of sense to me. I've been assuming that it had something to do with the total amount of PLEX on the market being player driven (through real money purchases). But this is an area that I don't have the economic chops to properly visualize.
The supply curve for PLEX with RL money is the price. So PLEX quantity "out of game" is demand driven. Which would then translate into the in game market being largely supply driven. I linked two graphs here. Let me know if I messed up the links.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
|
Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
548
|
Posted - 2017.04.07 01:09:39 -
[344] - Quote
It is quite interesting and in a way obvious that plex price would be linked to supply considering the in game demand for plex would be fairly stable. Most will only buy their one plex a month to keep their sub rolling over month to month. If you look at the whole plex chain player A will buy a plex with out of game money based on their desire for quick isk, player B will buy that plex with isk, based on their desire to play for free.
My theory is players have less need to buy plex for isk injections as their wallets are pretty fat anyway, leaving less supply of plex and more carebears clamouring over the plex that remain. The relative quiet in null may also contribute to the low plex supply.
A case for more AoE in EvE
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 .. 12 :: [one page] |