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Mah Kraah Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.09 01:24:00 - [121] quote hardin: ...Oracle came and went, the People's Front of Minmatar came and went... Will UK go? Who knows!... id like to correct that: oracle and tpfm didnt went, they merged together and founded the UK together with other militant antyslavers, together they are now called Masuataa Matari.
Cassandra Bontecou Celestial Janissaries Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.09 01:51:00 - [122] Originally by: GoGo Yubari Edited by: GoGo Yubari on 08/05/2007 00:57:19 Yeah, having a slight case of deja vu here. I think any RP entity thinking that the pirates next door who are ganking their haulers somehow exist in a different world or operate under different rules is simply deluding themselves. The same works in the converse - 0.0 entities should expect to deal with RP groups in the same manner as with anyone else. The difference is in issues relating to immersion (RPers generally try to appreciate the game-world for what it is) and motivations (RPers usually operate through additional self-imposed IC filters). In a way, everyone ends up doing that to some degree. The pirate ganker saying "Hey, I'm not a bad guy in real life!" is doing a form of that very thing. As it has been alluded in this thread: even the most vehemently anti-RP alliance that has sovereignty is creating IC content, and to a greater or lesser degree interacts with it as such. CVA just, as you said immerses itself further. We don't take pirating personally OOC, but IC... Well to paraphrase Jules in Pulp Fiction - They are tyranny, and we the Shepards. Quote: "The pirate ganker saying "Hey, I'm not a bad guy in real life!" is doing a form of that very thing" This is one of the more salient, and interesting points raised here. For my money it doesn't matter if that "not a bad guy irl" pirate saves baby seals, or is designing a machine that turn gashouse gases into endangered animals. It simply doesn't matter to me since all I see -both IC and OOC- is a ganking pirate (though I prefer SMACKFREEtm brand pirate if I had choose ) Quote: Anyway, back on topic, from my limited interactions with U'K and CVA, I've always considered them to "keep it real" and it's cool to see RP entities also active in 0.0, because often it is too easy for them to simply cluster inside empire. IMHO, without FW here to give further depth to empire based game-play, things really starts working only in 0.0 where players get to take control of their fates. I agree: the limitations of empire wars are such that even with a mutual war dec the constraints are stifling. But further then that 0.0 space is not wholely mapped out in terms of backstory and current plotline. Both CVA and U'K are therefore freed to create not just cute little storylines or preach fiery rhetoric, but actually develop our own sovereign "content". And this, brothers and sisters is the real genius of EVE. AMARR VICTORY!
Halafian Amarr Friendship Society	Posted - 2007.05.09 03:19:00 - [123] We here at the Amarr Friendship Society know nothing about the particulars of the Providence conflict. Nevertheless, we endorse without reservation the actions of the CVA in suppressing the violent terrorists in the U'K and their assorted allies. In order for the universe to advance and for good of peace and justice-loving people everywhere, including the majority of the Minmatar, order and the rule of law must be restored in Providence. The Amarr Friendship Society can't actually do anything now, lacking any means to project power (or even interest in doing so). But we affirm our support for the CVA nonetheless, no matter how empty the gesture.
Kovid Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.09 03:31:00 - [124] Edited by: Kovid on 09/05/2007 03:31:42 To all those involving themselves in the Providence conflict I want to say it's great to see the stuff going on. Personally I think it has brought a vitality to the area. And this vitality has come from non-RP groups, not to say previous residents didn't do squat. But yet the IGS board has really surprised me with some people like Outbreak and others putting their two cents in. U'K seems to be refreshed, if not in capital ships at least in will and .. I don't know exactly. It just seems refreshing from my point of view. The sandboxes have been broken! Have fun all. ---------------------------------- An informal Star Fraction FAQ \| ----------------------------------
Tar Kovsky Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.09 04:33:00 - [125] Originally by: Hardin Originally by: Eddie Gordo I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space. Which therefore gives them carte blanche to operate NBSI in the rest of Providence using 9UY as a safe base of operations It would be awfully imperial of us to dictate others' behavior outside of our own home.
40 Cent	Posted - 2007.05.09 05:33:00 - [126] Let me give you some very detailed information about what happened from my point of view: 40 ? ... huh ? - 9UY ! - Pew pew ? - Pew pew ! - YARR ! ...PEW PEW - yay ! GF !!
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.09 05:53:00 - [127] Quote: I understand what you're saying - but you still appear at least to me to be talking in sandbox terms, what if an influence from outside the traditional IC conflict were to intervene in a big way? Every action in EVE is RP. The (barbarian/pirate/whatever applies) (satrapy/horde/coalition) would have come to invade the bastion of civilization that is Amarrian Providence and help the evil terrorists/would have shown their loyalty to the Glorious Empire of God/would be attempting to set the entire region aflame, ect. It would all be IC and would be perfectly cool IMO. There is not, and never has been a "protection" for any 0.0 entity because it is RP. That line of thinking has been misguided every time it has been produced. There also has never been an RoE stating that we would not engage in PoS warfare. The simple fact is that its not likely that anyone will intervene in a big way with lasting effect, because providence is such a worthless region relatively. The people who actually need a 0.0 region on par with provi tend to be the ones who are not capable of taking a region with more value. And the CVA or U'K is entirely capable of fending off the likes of those. If a bigger entity comes in, they could push the U'K or CVA out of providence, but, to be blunt, would it be worth it? The casualties that would be taken by the aggressor would likely be roughly equal in the short run to those they would take in a campaign against any other region, and the long term losses for anyone trying to secure providence against the CVA or U'K would be effectively unrelenting compared to just about any other region. Now I don't question that a big power could pull it off, but it pulling it off and maintaining a hold on the region would be an effective permanent sap on their resources for the worst 0.0 region. This would be true even if CVA and U'K weren't RP alliances fully capable of surviving as combat capable entities from Empire, there is a reason that Provi was ignored by the 0.0 empires before CVA came in. Its just got too many high sec accesses and too little reward to be worth the effort of trying to hold in the long run. That said: Much respect to those new allies of U'K who have tried role playing in this conflict. I already knew The Establishment was a class act, and it looks to me like Evoke and Outbreak are as well from what I have seen in space and in this thread. Still filthy barbarians and pirates IC, but thats perfectly cool with me. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Peri Helion Amarr Omega Whiskey Tango Foxtrot Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.09 14:37:00 - [128] Originally by: Eddie Gordo Who was invited/who offered Prior Residents BUM - already residents of 9uy (long history with them through ISS) ENH - already basing out of 9uy (a long history of fighting them in a passed, but after repeated diplomacy efforts on their part and an additional roleplayed letter we set them blue prior to the 9uy attack)[no dreads] Ev0ke - Recently departed from D2 & without a home, we were already in talks with them before the assult.[no dreads] EST - Were already in talks about the possibility of a nap & docking rights prior to 9uy attack.[no dreads] Invited Themselfs Outbreak - Contacted us and offered help, who were we to refuse!? [no dreads] Invited by Ushra'khan Chaos Encarnate - Helped us in QR, friends of imperial order. Only ally to be deploying large numbers of dreads. I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space. None of them are "pirates" in the stricted sense of the word. All of them are pretty nasty :) What exactly do you mean when you say no Dreads? And why are you pointing this out?
Amith Silvermoon The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.09 14:51:00 - [129] Originally by: Algey I don't think that local has been too smacky, however I do think I haven't been offered enough salvation by all these religious fanatics. We tried to break the RPing up with some Adult Entertainment didnt go to plan :( ---------- Everyday Combat - A Littlest Hobos Movie
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.09 17:54:00 - [130] Originally by: Peri Helion Originally by: Eddie Gordo Who was invited/who offered Prior Residents BUM - already residents of 9uy (long history with them through ISS) ENH - already basing out of 9uy (a long history of fighting them in a passed, but after repeated diplomacy efforts on their part and an additional roleplayed letter we set them blue prior to the 9uy attack)[no dreads] Ev0ke - Recently departed from D2 & without a home, we were already in talks with them before the assult.[no dreads] EST - Were already in talks about the possibility of a nap & docking rights prior to 9uy attack.[no dreads] Invited Themselfs Outbreak - Contacted us and offered help, who were we to refuse!? [no dreads] Invited by Ushra'khan Chaos Encarnate - Helped us in QR, friends of imperial order. Only ally to be deploying large numbers of dreads. I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space. None of them are "pirates" in the stricted sense of the word. All of them are pretty nasty :) What exactly do you mean when you say no Dreads? And why are you pointing this out? He means they have not committed dreads to the fight. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
SwindonBadger 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.05.09 18:25:00 - [131] 0utbreak did not take capitols to this fight, a few suport ships (belive I was on my third dictor when the dreds went down yarghh ) and fleet bs where brought in to do add some dps on the dreds but focusing on reducing cva's bs suport. This was acomplished and the dreda that did not warp out at this point where delt with acordingly. CVA fought well and there was quite a few warp in- outs of both bs fleets and Im pritty sure our guys enjoyed that since they have been itching for a fleet engagement,. Whats really nice for me was the RP in local, then checking KBs and looking at the relative mimi v armar ship types..:) seems we like the mimi ships alot and very few armar... I wonder how both parites feel about the use of so many gallent throns in the mixer.
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.09 21:25:00 - [132] There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict. I (and several others of my small corp) have been in Providence for over a year now and consider it my home... CVA's message was clear to me when I landed in their space - Dont shoot neutrals or anyone in CVA space unless they are confirmed as hostile (which normally means they have agressed CVA/neutrals in CVA space). I myself have had 'pirates' added to their KOS list - people who agressed me unprovoked - and appreciate an entity such as CVA committed to protecting all upstanding, honest pilots living in their space. I was declared 'Red' by UK sometime well after UK first podded me in CVA space - something that further pushed me to be friendly to CVA and helping the anti-pirate movement in Providence...To me UK are no different to any of the other gank squads out to inflict as much damage as possible while flying through Providence (To date I've seen Star Fraction, Tau Ceti, AAA (Outbreak, SAS) & countless more). Now I help CVA when they allow me to counter these threats (they often dont want help!) since they have been good to their word, and I'm sure there are more folks like me doing the same - fighting for their homes... It seems to me that CVA are winning more friends in Providence (such as Sylph) by their consistent message to neutrals, and U'K are making friends by play acting the wounded underdog on the forums and calling on old friends and ex-members help. They may have their own group of 'neutrals turned friends' by CVA too...Who knows!?! However it is my firm hope that CVA whip U'K's ass and send them whimpering out of Providence for good. Roleplay? No its just gameplay. Cheers. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
Jonny Damordred Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.09 22:58:00 - [133] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict. Hrmm, ok sir, I'll buy that for now... Originally by: Vyktor Abyss CVA's message was clear to me when I landed in their space - Dont shoot neutrals or anyone in CVA space unless they are confirmed as hostile (which normally means they have agressed CVA/neutrals in CVA space). I myself have had 'pirates' added to their KOS list - people who agressed me unprovoked - and appreciate an entity such as CVA committed to protecting all upstanding, honest pilots living in their space. Ah yes: Standard, Northerner-Style Standings Enclosurism. We've been fighting against this tendancy for years, and we will continue to do so. Originally by: Vyktor Abyss I was declared 'Red' by UK sometime well after UK first podded me in CVA space - something that further pushed me to be friendly to CVA and helping the anti-pirate movement in Providence...To me UK are no different to any of the other gank squads out to inflict as much damage as possible while flying through Providence (To date I've seen Star Fraction, Tau Ceti, AAA (Outbreak, SAS) & countless more). Star Fraction only shoots at people who have decided to be hostile to us (usually by shooting at us). If you have -ve standings to us, its your corp/alliance's own damn fault. If you do not want to be a target of SF, just ring up one of our diplomats and I bet they can sort something out. Otherwise, please get a clue before bringing our name up. Kthx. Love and Ganking, Jonny D. -----
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.09 23:12:00 - [134] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict. I'll be even blunter than Jonny. We were asked a question in the op chum. Whats your excuse? Star Fraction is recruiting
Mortim Minmatar Madison Industrial Co. Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.09 23:51:00 - [135] Originally by: Vyktor Abyss It seems to me that CVA are winning more friends in Providence (such as Sylph) by their consistent message to neutrals Disclaimer: Prior to this recent occurence, we worked with both UK and CVA where possible to eliminate known pirates. We still aid CVA against piracy, but do not currently hold a position in the UK-CVA war, despite having set UK red. Complicated? Yes. But it has to be said Im afraid, we've stuck religiously (no, that isn't admitting anything) to our neutral position, and will "join a side" when there is no other course of action. Once Sylph makes a change to it's policy, either regarding piracy, or local wars, our actions will be revealed publically. Any queries, myself and Drakmor are available diplomats. If Sylph actions are likely to effect you, your corporation or alliance, don't hesitate to contact us so that we can offer the help you require. Mort
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.10 00:04:00 - [136] Originally by: Marko Debreault a CVA ally who operates NBSI (kill neutrals and hostiles) is IAC, which is a bit misleading, because IAC usually operates NRDS (only kill hostiles), except when they are under a lot of hostile pressure, which they currently are. Quoted for truth. CVA are not hypocrites for being friends with IAC. We are not NBSI in Providence, we are in several other regions at the moment, but only while we feel we have no choice, NRDS will be restored everywhere ASAP. Regarding CVA not firing upon S******dly when we had hired them as merceneries during MC's contract against us, their only alternative was to refuse us assistance when we needed their help, which is the more honorable decision ? Briefly setting aside ones personal standings for the greater good is not hypocritical or unethical, the terrorist sympathizer's propaganda is rather severely lacking if these are the best examples they can think of for propaganda purposes. http://eve.klaki.net/
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.10 00:28:00 - [137] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 10/05/2007 00:26:55 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk We are not NBSI in Providence, we are in several other regions at the moment, but only while we feel we have no choice, we will return to NRDS as soon as we can. What makes you better than any other NBSI/Pirate group that shoot all neutrals because "they feel they have no choice"? Basically you are coming up with silly excuses for why the exact same thing your allies condemn is "not as bad" when you do it. You shoot neutrals, they shoot neutrals. This is not a war of anti pirate vs pirate its a war of two power blocs contesting control of a region. Everything I've said here is just to pour a little bucket of cold water on the self righteous propaganda Hardin likes to indulge in. Star Fraction is recruiting
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 00:42:00 - [138] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Everything I've said here is just to pour a little bucket of cold water on the self righteous propaganda Hardin likes to indulge in. How amusing! You will never admit when you are wrong will you? ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation	Posted - 2007.05.10 01:00:00 - [139] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Vyktor Abyss There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict. I'll be even blunter than Jonny. We were asked a question in the op chum. Whats your excuse? My 'excuse' is your downright slander of CVA by calling them hypocrites regarding their very reasonable KOS/standings policy. They aren't your usual trigger-happy 0.0 alliance in that they actually think and use discretion before killing someone. I felt it my duty to tell people the facts about 'neutral' life in CVA space to counter your rhetoric that would have people believe CVA shoot who they please on a whim. I also wanted to point out that neutral people in the U'K v CVA war were often forced to side with CVA by U'K attacking 'neutrals' (though I know U'K have some fancy explanation for why a ratter in CVA space is not neutral but 'aiding CVA'...). I've said how it is right now in Providence based on a year knowing and operating in CVA space. You've yet to say something honest regarding CVA in as much as I've read, which is why Hardin who's one of the most patient and honest posters in COAD appears to have lost patience with you. Says it all to me tbh. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint! Please read my ideas
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.10 01:07:00 - [140] Originally by: Hardin How amusing! You will never admit when you are wrong will you? Lets see you justify an allied NSBI "when it suits them" and then explain to me the difference between that and your idea of "piracy" for a little additional "amusement" Hardin. You are the person caught with your pants around your ankles here - me, I'm just pointing it out Star Fraction is recruiting
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 01:36:00 - [141] No - you are the one making a fool of yourself. It is blantantly obvious that your allegations are incorrect and that has not just come from CVA but from various neutral observers. But by all means continue to slander us if you feel it will forward the Star Fraction cause... ------------------------------ CVA - Kicking Arse For The Empire - http://eve-files.com/dl/83607 AMARR VICTOR
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 01:40:00 - [142] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine Originally by: Hardin How amusing! You will never admit when you are wrong will you? Lets see you justify an allied NSBI "when it suits them" and then explain to me the difference between that and your idea of "piracy" for a little additional "amusement" Hardin. You are the person caught with your pants around your ankles here - me, I'm just pointing it out I've tried explaining this before, and I suppose I'll try again. It really is pretty simple: the act of NBSI itself, while very much counter to the way CVA prefers to operate, does not inherently make one evil or bad in CVA's eyes. Operating NBSI in CVA space (and, in general in Providence where we have interests) is, however, a fast-track to our KOS list. IAC operate NBSI in their space. That's none of our business. They respect our rules in Providence. That is our business. And so far between IAC and CVA, business is just fine. That's not hypocrisy. That's sovereign alliances respecting each-others sovereignty.
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 01:51:00 - [143] Far more accurate my friends, see Jasmine come here and try to make this about Star Fraction agenda. The war proceeds Amarr Victor
DeltaH NOBODY Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.10 01:54:00 - [144] I have a hard time beleiving you can't see a difference between IAC being NBSI and most NBSI corps. If IAC could wave a wand and remove all hostiles from their space they would willingly share their resources with third parties. NBSI is being employed to keep members safe. If a standard NBSI alliance could wave a wand and remove all hostiles from their space they would not share their resources with third parties. NBSI is being employed to keep the resources safe. IAC being NBSI right now makes the difference in motive moot when it comes to the practicalities, but it doesn't erase that there is a difference in motive. I think the difference matters.
Alois Hammer	Posted - 2007.05.10 02:21:00 - [145] funny............ this thread has been brought to my attention by my diplomatic/intel corp.... i must say , i have never seen so much bovine excrement in one place..... up till recently , i WAS a staunch suporter of UK . so were many others. the fact that UK has decided to rally nothing but pirates and griefers saddens me. recently i was approached by one of them about paying rent for my system.....(in your dreams). my alliance are industrial/ratting mix . we are not pvp"ers. but it will be a cold days in hell if these groups think they will own providence. lol , yeah we are weak , not ready , and terrible at pvp.but my guys come out in noobships just to prove the point. pirates will not own providence . we want to see them start placing pos"s. grin
Lilan Kahn Amarr The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.05.10 04:48:00 - [146] Originally by: Alois Hammer funny............ this thread has been brought to my attention by my diplomatic/intel corp.... i must say , i have never seen so much bovine excrement in one place..... up till recently , i WAS a staunch suporter of UK . so were many others. the fact that UK has decided to rally nothing but pirates and griefers saddens me. recently i was approached by one of them about paying rent for my system.....(in your dreams). my alliance are industrial/ratting mix . we are not pvp"ers. but it will be a cold days in hell if these groups think they will own providence. lol , yeah we are weak , not ready , and terrible at pvp.but my guys come out in noobships just to prove the point. pirates will not own providence . we want to see them start placing pos"s. grin bye bye no corp tag = nerfed Originally by: Eris Discordia We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.
Dreamy Nights	Posted - 2007.05.10 07:01:00 - [147] Time to kick some ass i think
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.10 09:32:00 - [148] Originally by: Jasmine Constantine What makes you better than any other NBSI/Pirate group that shoot all neutrals because "they feel they have no choice"? Basically you are coming up with silly excuses for why the exact same thing your allies condemn is "not as bad" when you do it. You shoot neutrals, they shoot neutrals. This is not a war of anti pirate vs pirate its a war of two power blocs contesting control of a region. Everything I've said here is just to pour a little bucket of cold water on the self righteous propaganda Hardin likes to indulge in. It's quite simple and you obviously don't need it explained. You simply choose not to understand it because it doesn't suit your purposes, everything you said here was simply to get a little more attention for yourself and your little band of blowhards. Much like everything else you say and do.. http://eve.klaki.net/
Karn Mithralia Minmatar Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2007.05.10 10:28:00 - [149] Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 10/05/2007 10:27:24 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk CVA are not hypocrites for being friends with IAC. We are not NBSI in Providence, we are in several other regions at the moment, but only while we feel we have no choice, we will return to NRDS as soon as we can. Ahh this assertion again. I let it die and ignored your IC (I assume) insult last time as it was on IGS, but its worth addressing here. I can accept IAC aren't 'pirates' as its normally understood and are aware you do operate NRDS at times, so can see how Hardin can spin things to make the light shine from his nether regions. However its clear to me that IAC do operate NBSI in Providence. You wrote off the major period of piracy .. er sorry NBSI ... on the Assah - 9uy pipe as being the results of 'confused' commanders. OK, so your a big alliance and have internal comms issues - it happens to us all. Yet the same day you posted that explanation I watched your guys help rob a neutral corp mining POS in DNR. How do I know it was neutral - I asked your guys and those being robbed who had never heard of IAC. You then spoke down to me in IGS when I pointed this out and didn't take me up on my offer to provide details in private. Sure maybe everyone lied to me and I'm being played for a fool, but a quick comparison of facts would sort that out. I don't really care that much so let it drop. A few days later I sat cloaked watching the Dital/KBP gate upon which sat a matari recon ship piloted by an IAC pilot. In jumps a neutral who is promptly webbed and scrambled by your man. I watch with interest - the pause before he opened fire had me thinking he was asking what to do with his superiors. After perhaps 30 secs or so he apologised to the neutral and opened up on him. I chuckled in local and all friendly like asked if that was a neutral he shot, he said it was 'but orders were orders'. Maybe I missed something here too, maybe again your commanders were confused, maybe a standing hadn't been set and needed setting. But from where I sat, and where many others sit it sure looks like IAC NBSI in Providence. Your right, I can't know whats going on internally for IAC, but you are no simple NRDS alliance like CVA or UK. Hardin can spin it any way he wants and you can assert your NRDS behaviour as much as you like but the observable actions of your pilots remain. I may not say much on these forums, and I tend to lead quietly in our alliance so you won't see much of me, but ask around and you'll find my word is good and my grasp of what goes on solid. I spend nearly all my time in providence so have a very clear picture on what goes on down there. I wouldn't post here if I was guessing, I have no interest in slandering anyone for the sake of it. ----------------------------------------- Now recruiting.
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.05.10 11:28:00 - [150] Edited by: Jasmine Constantine on 10/05/2007 11:25:12 Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk It's quite simple and you obviously don't need it explained. You simply choose not to understand it because it doesn't suit your purposes, everything you said here was simply to get a little more attention for yourself and your little band of blowhards. This is not about me Tyrrax. This is about your organisation choosing when it gets to be NBSI/Pirate and when it doesn't and swapping that status around wherever it suits you. Its ridiculous really - its like some lowsec gate-ganking crew murdering people all day and claiming "NBSI by neccessity mate!" then expecting to be treated like NRDS people when "its no longer neccessary" and they seek to put on the respective evening clothes again. You simply aren't listening to the essential point here. This is not about SF's political associations or our campaign in empire against PIE. We came here to answer a question raised in the OP of this thread where a guy asked why we weren't fighting on the "terrorist/pirate" side and manners raising from that assessment. I've simply pointed out in polite language that its not such an easy division to draw and since the CVA itself has allies who do at times engage in open NBSI/Piracy its neither reasonable nor accurate for Hardin to depict himself and his organisation as the "white-hats" here. I'd welcome debate on that subject of course. But I have precisely no interest in listening to you and hardin insulting me or my alliance because we bring this unfortunate truth to light and ask for your explanation on the matter. Discuss the matter at hand and leave the personal attacks at the door please. Star Fraction is recruiting

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