Originally by: Spoon Thumb

---

Finally, Ev0ke are former D2 members? Why would they have an interest in Providence enough to get so seriously involved

---

Originally by: Eris Discordia

---

We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.

---

Originally by: Joshua Foiritain

---

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

---

Finally, Ev0ke are former D2 members? Why would they have an interest in Providence enough to get so seriously involved

---

They like killing things.

---

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

---

We'd been lead to believe we were fighting Star Fraction and U'K. We saw neither. Any reason why?

---

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

---

My alliance recently sent a small force to help CVA in their taking of unity station in Providence. But I have a number of unanswered questions about what followed that friday evening:

We'd been lead to believe we were fighting Star Fraction and U'K. We saw neither. Any reason why?

Sylph alliance seemed to switch onto CVA's side on the day. This right?

NOS alliance seem pretty friendly with CVA, so where were they?

Finally, Ev0ke are former D2 members? Why would they have an interest in Providence enough to get so seriously involved

---

Quote:

---

We'd been lead to believe we were fighting Star Fraction and U'K. We saw neither. Any reason why?

---

Originally by: AonChilo

---

Sylph Alliance is not aiding CVA against U'K.

---

Originally by: AonChilo

---

U'K is being helped by various allies including; Establishment, Evoke, Outbreak, Betrayal Under Mayhem, Einherjar Rising. These mentioned U'K friends are all killing Sylph for many weeks now.

---

Originally by: AonChilo

---

I'm not an official representative of my alliance, but I think it would be fair to say one of our "core principles" is Antipiracy.

---

Originally by: Tar Kovsky

---

Originally by: AonChilo

---

Sylph Alliance is not aiding CVA against U'K.

---

Which we can confirm.

Originally by: AonChilo

---

U'K is being helped by various allies including; Establishment, Evoke, Outbreak, Betrayal Under Mayhem, Einherjar Rising. These mentioned U'K friends are all killing Sylph for many weeks now.

---

In the interest of completeness, I should add that The Establishment and 0utbreak were also red to U'K until Friday, that ENH was red to U'K until about 10 days ago, and that Ev0ke hasn't been in the area in months (at which point they were -surprise- also red to U'K).

Adaptibility is a virtue as long as it doesn't compromise your core principles. Ours are: an end to slavery, support for our friends, and respect to our foes. We supported Sylph for a long time despite repeated requests to abandon them, and even now would not have set them to red if they had not done the same to us first.

---

Originally by: Mortim

---

I can officially confirm this, Sylph has yet to play a part in the CVA-UK war, our current standings with UK are in reflection to their recent actions, something that is now being discussed between leaderships.

---

Originally by: Jonny Damordred

---

Originally by: AonChilo

---

I'm not an official representative of my alliance, but I think it would be fair to say one of our "core principles" is Antipiracy.

---

Anti-piracy is so 2005... There are no good guys; no bad guys; just friends, neutrals, or targets.

Cheers,
Jonny D.

---

Originally by: Jonny Damordred

---

Originally by: AonChilo

---

I'm not an official representative of my alliance, but I think it would be fair to say one of our "core principles" is Antipiracy.

---

Anti-piracy is so 2005... There are no good guys; no bad guys; just friends, neutrals, or targets.

Cheers,
Jonny D.

---

Originally by: Koronos

---

It surprises and saddens me that a member of your idealist alliance would parrot the blue-grey-red iconography of the State.

---

Originally by: dralid

---

Did you all forget that CVA was fighting along side S******dly during the first IAC/MC war?
CVA siding with real pirates was that, so I do not think you can hold UK in a bad light of their choice of friends while CVA is trying to get them out of Providence.
CVA then had apparently no moral issues or anti-pirate feelings.

---

Originally by: Miss Lear

---

from now on until CVA have cleaned up this mess, all of northern Providence is more un-free then it ever has been.

---

Originally by: Miss Lear

---

Originally by: dralid

---

Did you all forget that CVA was fighting along side S******dly during the first IAC/MC war?
CVA siding with real pirates was that, so I do not think you can hold UK in a bad light of their choice of friends while CVA is trying to get them out of Providence.
CVA then had apparently no moral issues or anti-pirate feelings.

---

IAC requested the aid of the questionable corps as well as CVA. CVA only hold ties to aiding IAC. While in IAC space we had a cease fire with these questionable corps, but while we were out side of IAC space they were still KOS as ever. You can not hold us accountable for what IAC did

UK on the other hand have brought in every pirate organization on this half of the galaxy to aid them, this gives them direct ties to aiding and supporting terrorist threats and 9uy is now the camping ground for all these threats.

On a OOC side note, IAC are not in a RP conflict at all, so them calling in help from where ever is totally up to them, but UK calling in the help of so many pirate organizations goes against their ôlet freedom ringö mentality as from now on until CVA have cleaned up this mess, all of northern Providence is more un-free then it ever has been. Each Pirate origination is probably following a NBSI mentality and no one is welcome in the section of space any more.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

CVA abandoned the traditional RPing rules of engagement when they decided they wanted to 'win'. So they brought a blob of 150 including many non-RPers to 9UY to attempt to take the station.

I think it's fair to say that it is now a free-for-all.

---

Originally by: dralid

---

Did you all forget that CVA was fighting along side S******dly during the first IAC/MC war?
CVA siding with real pirates was that, so I do not think you can hold UK in a bad light of their choice of friends while CVA is trying to get them out of Providence.
CVA then had apparently no moral issues or anti-pirate feelings.

---

Originally by: NATMav

---

I've never been into the roleplaying scene but...

Am I reading correctly that someone has been holding 0.0 space merely due to roleplaying?

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

---

Originally by: NATMav

---

I've never been into the roleplaying scene but...

Am I reading correctly that someone has been holding 0.0 space merely due to roleplaying?

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

From the Star Fraction perspective we're committed to empire war with PIE in the Throne Worlds. Its our plan to keep turning the screw on their pride and honour in Amarr (since they are empire loyalists pledged to defend it) - and have no interest in territorial POS wars in 0.0 at the present time.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Originally by: Ramireza

---

Originally by: Joshua Foiritain

---

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

---

Finally, Ev0ke are former D2 members? Why would they have an interest in Providence enough to get so seriously involved

---

They like killing things.

---

exactly.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Koronos

---

It surprises and saddens me that a member of your idealist alliance would parrot the blue-grey-red iconography of the State.

---

Not sure what you mean here. Jonny's point is that self proclaimed "anti pirates" are generally utter hypocrits. And lets face it "anti pirates" operating in slaver-dominated lower providence? There are worse things than "piracy" - selling other human lives for profit and crazy religious mumbo-jumbo for one.

---

Originally by: Spoon Thumb

---

Finally, Ev0ke are former D2 members? Why would they have an interest in Providence enough to get so seriously involved

---

Originally by: Kovid

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Ginger has said before everyone in Eve RPs (whether they realize it or not.)

This is a single server, we all interact with each other whether we like to or not. There are no sandboxes, only RP systems, or half-RP.

As for Providence, it has been mixed RP and non-RP for who knows how long.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

We're RPing space mercenaries, we just for the most part don't wear the hat as well as the silly outfit*.


*with the possible exception of Waagaa

---

Originally by: Solusar

---

So how do you explain the large numbers of corps and alliances that over the last two years have been fighting us for Providence?

---

Originally by: Sae Marr

---

Originally by: Solusar

---

So how do you explain the large numbers of corps and alliances that over the last two years have been fighting us for Providence?

---

I realize you're not really asking, but you do make for such an attractive target for pvp oriented entities only because you usually put up a fight .
-

---

Quote:

---

Marko Debreault > I WILL MAKE BROTH FROM YOUR BLOOD AND DRINK IT FROM YOUR SKULL

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

My bet would be that CVA is stepping things up and getting ready for Factional Warfare (whenever that happens) so that they can say:

"Lookie!! Prov belongs to the Empire!! Navy Apocs for all KTHX?!"

UK looked upon this idea and declared it rubbish. Looks like a fun fight shaping up.

---

Originally by: Murukan

---

In the end though it will always come down to U'k and CVA for prov. The alliances helping out either side won't be there in the long run as there really isn't any reward for living in prov really.

If U'K does amass enough allies to take over CVA's stations it won't be that way in the long term as CVA has shown themselves superior to U'K in pvp prowess over and over again. When it settles back down and it's CVA vs U'K and ex-iss rabble CVA will regain their dominance over the area.

Although it would make me happy to see CVA thoroughly spanked, from engaging them quite a few times during the Priory's war against them, and random encounters with U'K, CVA does have the edge. U'K are a scrappy bunch though so don't give up!

---

Originally by: Tar Kovsky

---

As for me, I'm a firm convert to the "Garreck Doctrine" as described by Ginger in his recent devblog: everything we do in EVE is RP.

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

This is largely true, and CVA at this moment are stronger than U'K alone.

But U'K have never displayed any interest in a territorial POS war with CVA. The fights that have been roleplayed over the past 4 years between CVA/UK have been just that - stand up fights, not protracted seiges (and we all know how much 'fun' they are).

I personally find it strange that CVA are looking to get rid of their playmate. If CVA do take the last U'K station, who are they going to have fun with on a day-by-day basis? QR is already empty 95% of the time, CVA simply don't have the numbers to support 5 outposts. Its a curious move.

---

Originally by: Ma Raia'l

---

The CVA and UK will never destroy each other, because their conflict is purely an in character affair. We (the loyalists) have good OOC friendships with a lot of the minnie rabble, and that's not going to change any time soon. U'K losing Unity Station won't be the death of them, and if you believe that then I think you completely misunderstand the situation, and the history between the CVA and U'K (not a flame, just saying).

After Unity is clad in the banners of the CVA, U'K will engage in the thing they excel at: guerrilla warfare. They aren't going to roll over and die without an outpost, they'll go back to being the scrappers they are, and the conflict will never end, because neither side want it to end.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Edited by: Grimster on 08/05/2007 10:35:01

Originally by: Ma Raia'l

---

The CVA and UK will never destroy each other, because their conflict is purely an in character affair. We (the loyalists) have good OOC friendships with a lot of the minnie rabble, and that's not going to change any time soon. U'K losing Unity Station won't be the death of them, and if you believe that then I think you completely misunderstand the situation, and the history between the CVA and U'K (not a flame, just saying).

After Unity is clad in the banners of the CVA, U'K will engage in the thing they excel at: guerrilla warfare. They aren't going to roll over and die without an outpost, they'll go back to being the scrappers they are, and the conflict will never end, because neither side want it to end.

---

I understand what you're saying - but you still appear at least to me to be talking in sandbox terms, what if an influence from outside the traditional IC conflict were to intervene in a big way?

We fairly often see in this game 0.0 entities supressed to such an extent they eventually roll over and croak, the ability to carry a war isn't always in the hands of the alliances in question. Would we then see a situation where one or other of the IC alliances propping up their foes just to keep the full-on RP element going ingame?

I know it's all a bit pie-in-the-sky (please excuse the pun) but this whole situation has piqued my interest.

Feel free to correct any mistakes or assumptions I'm making as I'm quite the virgin to this area.

Thanks.

edit for my damned scissor hands.

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Originally by: Mangold

---

Providence is utter ****e for being a 0.0 region.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Littlest Hobos - renegade ISS Navy officers and reservists - have a grudge against CVA dating back to when we stopped ISS building an Outpost in our space

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

What I will however point out is that Ushra'khan can never again claim to be an 'anti-pirate' alliance with bedfellows like those...

---

Originally by: Mynas Atoch

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Littlest Hobos - renegade ISS Navy officers and reservists - have a grudge against CVA dating back to when we stopped ISS building an Outpost in our space

---

Fixed it for you. ISS would never have sanctioned this sort of intervention, unless it was to defend an investment in 9UY, or supress piracy. The disagreement and brief war with CVA over the siting of the ISS Consido outpost was 'just business'.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

What I will however point out is that Ushra'khan can never again claim to be an 'anti-pirate' alliance with bedfellows like those...

---

Stones in glass houses Hardin. CVA has allies who shoot neutrals, U'K have allies who shoot neutrals. Claiming your enemy is "pirate" because it has friends who practise NBSI is the height of hypocrisy for you guys.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

What I will however point out is that Ushra'khan can never again claim to be an 'anti-pirate' alliance with bedfellows like those...

---

Stones in glass houses Hardin. CVA has allies who shoot neutrals, U'K have allies who shoot neutrals. Claiming your enemy is "pirate" because it has friends who practise NBSI is the height of hypocrisy for you guys.

---

Oh shut up...

---

Originally by: mamolian

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Personally I hope the 2 alliances can return to their ROE agreements and stop bringing in outside help.. unless a force other than CVA/UK threatens to take their space..

Its something Ive not seen in any other game, and to destroy it in eve.. would be a major blow not only to providence.. but to the RP community in eve.. Would be a terrible shame in my opinion..

Maelstrom has never been in much of a position to help out UK after we had left the providence area.. And Im ashamed often by being unable to help with that first big 9uy siege.. I'll help UK out in what ever way I can, overtly.. If CVA continue with this foolishness..

---

Originally by: Kovid

---

Edited by: Kovid on 08/05/2007 14:31:31
Edited by: Kovid on 08/05/2007 14:29:48

Originally by: mamolian

---

Originally by: Grimster

---

Question.

Now that the RP cat is essentially out of the bag, with both the CVA and UK sides requesting "outside" assistance, can we assume that both these alliances are now fair game as 0.0 entities?

I know that others have already stated that this should be the case, but there are always a hard-core that state RP should be left to RP.

Just interested.

---

Personally I hope the 2 alliances can return to their ROE agreements and stop bringing in outside help.. unless a force other than CVA/UK threatens to take their space..

Its something Ive not seen in any other game, and to destroy it in eve.. would be a major blow not only to providence.. but to the RP community in eve.. Would be a terrible shame in my opinion..

Maelstrom has never been in much of a position to help out UK after we had left the providence area.. And Im ashamed often by being unable to help with that first big 9uy siege.. I'll help UK out in what ever way I can, overtly.. If CVA continue with this foolishness..

---

BS. Everyone RPs. If you come upon a RPer in some other place prime for the picking are you going to not shoot them? Will the next person do so? Should they do the same for you if the roles were reversed?

There are no special rules that apply to one group or another. And the devs who support everyone RPing wouldn't want to treat people differently either.

You say it would ruin the core struggle. How do you know if that destabilized something else wouldn't happen elsewhere, with either the same people or another faction. The fact you are limiting RP groups to RP groups are ... are limiting. NonRp groups can provide epic stories to the the game fighting say an Amarr empire just as they do fighting each other. The stories of multi faction capsuleer orginaztions of grand proportions are their OWN grand empires with rich histories as well. They deserve as much respect towards the game as the smaller RP groups who create their own stories in smaller ways. Both you see in news reports.

Both groups pay for the whole game. Why limit them to a subsection of people. And interacting with smaller groups becomes the same repeated cycle. They even suffer at times because the limited amounts.

0.0 is not for the meek. CVA has been the big dog in the region and got spanked by a resugance of their enemies to come back to the area. Until then they had the area to themselves because no one had the power to take them. .... No one non-RP. It's 0.0. It's null security. And it's not just 0.0 for RPers, but anyone. If they can't hold space as a group, they don't deserve it.

The fun is in the whole game, not just a section. People paid for the whole game, not just the percentage of it (the RPers.)

---

Originally by: Mynas Atoch

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Littlest Hobos - renegade ISS Navy officers and reservists - have a grudge against CVA dating back to when we stopped ISS building an Outpost in our space

---

Fixed it for you. ISS would never have sanctioned this sort of intervention, unless it was to defend an investment in 9UY, or supress piracy. The disagreement and brief war with CVA over the siting of the ISS Consido outpost was 'just business'.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

No just fed up with SF sniping - especially when it's illinformed sniping - I just can't be arsed to derail this thread to start another discussion with you about it...

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

No just fed up with SF sniping - especially when it's illinformed sniping - I just can't be arsed to derail this thread to start another discussion with you about it...

---

Then accept I'm calling it like it is Hardin. You count IAC amongst your allies, IAC practise NBSI - NBSI = "piracy". Hence there is no sensible way you can make propaganda mileage over Ushra'khan for having parotty allies themselves. Call it "sniping" if you like, but maybe I'm a little tired seeing the CVA pretend to be holier-than-thou on the piracy issue while having very off-colour friends yourselves.

Sauce for the goose Hardin.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

This statement clearly shows you have no understanding of how IAC operates and nor do you have any clear understanding of the IAC/CVA relationship. Suffice to say calling us 'allies' is grossly inaccurate - after all do you see CVA ships on the frontline of the war with BoB or indeed IAC ships helping us in 9UY?

---

Quote:

---

The CVA has a long and proud history of anti-piracy action indeed we are acknowledged as one of the formost anti-pirate organisations in EVE.

---

Quote:

---

By all means continue trying to smear our name with clever rhetoric when our actions demonstrate the idiocy of your words on a daily basis...

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

I don't see there is any call for personal insults in this discussion Hardin.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Littlest Hobos - former ISS PvPers - have a grudge against CVA dating back to when we stopped ISS building an Outpost in our space

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

If you thought that was a personal insult then you are more sensitive than I thought. As for the rest of your linguistic flatulence, it is absolute crap and you know it Jasmine.

---

Quote:

---

If anyone is spinning here it is you. People can judge CVA on it's actions over three years and decide whether they want to believe us or a Star Fraction PR lackey.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Jasmine, what you have done is accuse the CVA of something which we wholeheartedely detest with little or no evidence purely it seems out of a desire to sully our name for SF's own arcane political ends. The CVA has never supported or promoted piracy in any shape or form and never will.

---

Originally by: Witch Doctor

---

As for their new allies, it is actually quite a good match across the board. There are shades of "piracy", and their new friends (EST, ENH, 0utbreak) are more on the "bloodthirsty PVPers who might chat you up afterwards" end vs. the "anklebiting script kiddies who smack in local and can't spell or punctuate" end.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

The attack on QR was carried out by a collection of pro-Amarr corporations and alliances. The only one that the Minmatar's had any quibble about was 's3verance' - presumably because they hadn't seen them before - however, the CVA and s3verance had been working together for quite a while to protect a low-sec area of Amarr space from pirates.

---

Originally by: Lowanaera

---

Originally by: Witch Doctor

---

As for their new allies, it is actually quite a good match across the board. There are shades of "piracy", and their new friends (EST, ENH, 0utbreak) are more on the "bloodthirsty PVPers who might chat you up afterwards" end vs. the "anklebiting script kiddies who smack in local and can't spell or punctuate" end.

---

You obviously haven't been in 9UY this week

CVA and U'K have a tradition of Local debates, preaching from our end, derision (and some hilarious *****s) from theirs. Can't get an word in edgewise now with all the smack, mostly from BUM and ENH. Not that some of our people haven't smacked right back despite orders otherwise, but it's sad and annoying how some of them never shut up, ever.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

What I will however point out is that Ushra'khan can never again claim to be an 'anti-pirate' alliance with bedfellows like those...

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

What I will however point out is that Ushra'khan can never again claim to be an 'anti-pirate' alliance with bedfellows like those...

---

Stones in glass houses Hardin. CVA has allies who shoot neutrals, U'K have allies who shoot neutrals. Claiming your enemy is "pirate" because it has friends who practise NBSI is the height of hypocrisy for you guys.

---

Oh shut up...

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

lets reserve that for x-r :)

---

Originally by: Shaikar

---

It's not all that bad on sunday (or was it monday?) there was a hobo singing 99 green bottles hanging on the wall. Ok, still couldn't get a word in edgeways, but hey.

---

Quote:

---

Can't get an word in edgewise now with all the smack, mostly from BUM and ENH. Not that some of our people haven't smacked right back despite orders otherwise, but it's sad and annoying how some of them never shut up, ever.

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

lets reserve that for x-r :)

---

Quote:

---

lastly ... I just like to pew pew and cva is a treath to my pew pew ... so i pew pew them with uk.

---

Originally by: Ikoma Sunblazer

---

Quote:

---

lastly ... I just like to pew pew and cva is a treath to my pew pew ... so i pew pew them with uk.

---

This man is a winnar

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

Ev0ke - Recently departed from D2 & without a home, we were already in talks with them before the assult.[no dreads]

---

Originally by: Witch Doctor

---

Personally, I think where the conflict is headed is a good thing. U'K have tried to be "nice guys" for too long and ended up being walked over by their ersatz allies and CVA for a long time. The new power bloc takes them more in the direction where they should head - bad guys with a certain sense of honor. It fits how you would expect spitting-mad Minmatar to behave while invading Amarrian space.

---

Originally by: Kovid

---

Some good points made.

---

Originally by: Marko Debreault

---

So this time when I approached the UK about aiding them I rp'ed. I pretended to be a pirate! It was a stretch for me and I got a little confused at times.

It went something like this...
Maggot > Alright, I will evemail you with specifics tomorrow.
Marko > Scurvy, and fair be the tailwinds that blow on the looty outcome of the netherboard plank!

---

Originally by: Maggot

---

Seleene, for you..nothing. Enjoy and Yarr Harr Fiddle De Dee

Marko Debreault > arrrr, fighter
Maggot > Greetings
Marko Debreault > I hear ye be havin an eventful weekend
Maggot > yes, just a little
Marko Debreault > the scurvy barnacle shaggin self righteous CVA scum have blobbed me an me boys a few times too many
Marko Debreault > we be bearin them no love
Maggot > is that so....well I think we should do some business together
Marko Debreault > arrr
Marko Debreault > so if'n ye're having POS's leaving reinforced sometime soon its possible the lads would be interested in some fightin
Maggot > most excellent, I will mail you details when the sun comes up
Maggot > we are still battling the scum now
Marko Debreault > scurvy, be that the way the wind blows, and a most excellent tailwind fer plunder!
Maggot > o>
Marko Debreault > arrr o7

---

Originally by: Butter Dog

---

Edited by: Butter Dog on 08/05/2007 17:44:51

Originally by: Hardin

---

The attack on QR was carried out by a collection of pro-Amarr corporations and alliances. The only one that the Minmatar's had any quibble about was 's3verance' - presumably because they hadn't seen them before - however, the CVA and s3verance had been working together for quite a while to protect a low-sec area of Amarr space from pirates.

---

Just a point of fact, s3verance are not Ammarian roleplayers in any sense of the word. They are anti-pirate, but then so are many entities in EVE. In truth, we in the Hobos roleplay more against Amarr slavers than they ever have done against the Minmatar. And I don't consider us to be an RP corp by any stretch of the imagination (though some of us dabble).

I know s3verance well because I spent the best part of a year shooting the member corps prior to them forming an alliance. Participants in the roleplay community they are not.

That said, nearly all members of BUM fought for UK the last time their station was under serious threat. We have a history with them. There are clear and legitimate reasons why we would seek to offer them help once more.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

However I do think you need to rename your 9UY station:

TORTUGA - http://www.thepiratesrealm.com/Isle%20of%20Tortuga.html



We look forward to cleaning out this den of 'evil'

---

Originally by: GoGo Yubari

---

Edited by: GoGo Yubari on 08/05/2007 00:57:19
Yeah, having a slight case of deja vu here.

I think any RP entity thinking that the pirates next door who are ganking their haulers somehow exist in a different world or operate under different rules is simply deluding themselves. The same works in the converse - 0.0 entities should expect to deal with RP groups in the same manner as with anyone else. The difference is in issues relating to immersion (RPers generally try to appreciate the game-world for what it is) and motivations (RPers usually operate through additional self-imposed IC filters). In a way, everyone ends up doing that to some degree. The pirate ganker saying "Hey, I'm not a bad guy in real life!" is doing a form of that very thing.

---

Quote:

---

"The pirate ganker saying "Hey, I'm not a bad guy in real life!" is doing a form of that very thing"

---

Quote:

---

Anyway, back on topic, from my limited interactions with U'K and CVA, I've always considered them to "keep it real" and it's cool to see RP entities also active in 0.0, because often it is too easy for them to simply cluster inside empire. IMHO, without FW here to give further depth to empire based game-play, things really starts working only in 0.0 where players get to take control of their fates.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space.

---

Which therefore gives them carte blanche to operate NBSI in the rest of Providence using 9UY as a safe base of operations

---

Quote:

---

I understand what you're saying - but you still appear at least to me to be talking in sandbox terms, what if an influence from outside the traditional IC conflict were to intervene in a big way?

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

Who was invited/who offered

Prior Residents
BUM - already residents of 9uy (long history with them through ISS)
ENH - already basing out of 9uy (a long history of fighting them in a passed, but after repeated diplomacy efforts on their part and an additional roleplayed letter we set them blue prior to the 9uy attack)[no dreads]
Ev0ke - Recently departed from D2 & without a home, we were already in talks with them before the assult.[no dreads]
EST - Were already in talks about the possibility of a nap & docking rights prior to 9uy attack.[no dreads]

Invited Themselfs
Outbreak - Contacted us and offered help, who were we to refuse!? [no dreads]

Invited by Ushra'khan
Chaos Encarnate - Helped us in QR, friends of imperial order. Only ally to be deploying large numbers of dreads.

I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space. None of them are "pirates" in the stricted sense of the word. All of them are pretty nasty :)

---

Originally by: Algey

---

I don't think that local has been too smacky, however I do think I haven't been offered enough salvation by all these religious fanatics.

---

Originally by: Peri Helion

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

Who was invited/who offered

Prior Residents
BUM - already residents of 9uy (long history with them through ISS)
ENH - already basing out of 9uy (a long history of fighting them in a passed, but after repeated diplomacy efforts on their part and an additional roleplayed letter we set them blue prior to the 9uy attack)[no dreads]
Ev0ke - Recently departed from D2 & without a home, we were already in talks with them before the assult.[no dreads]
EST - Were already in talks about the possibility of a nap & docking rights prior to 9uy attack.[no dreads]

Invited Themselfs
Outbreak - Contacted us and offered help, who were we to refuse!? [no dreads]

Invited by Ushra'khan
Chaos Encarnate - Helped us in QR, friends of imperial order. Only ally to be deploying large numbers of dreads.

I must make it clear, that ALL of the people listed as prior residents agreed to a NDRS policy in Ushra'khan Sov space. None of them are "pirates" in the stricted sense of the word. All of them are pretty nasty :)

---

What exactly do you mean when you say no Dreads? And why are you pointing this out?

---

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

---

There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict.

---

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

---

CVA's message was clear to me when I landed in their space - Dont shoot neutrals or anyone in CVA space unless they are confirmed as hostile (which normally means they have agressed CVA/neutrals in CVA space). I myself have had 'pirates' added to their KOS list - people who agressed me unprovoked - and appreciate an entity such as CVA committed to protecting all upstanding, honest pilots living in their space.

---

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

---

I was declared 'Red' by UK sometime well after UK first podded me in CVA space - something that further pushed me to be friendly to CVA and helping the anti-pirate movement in Providence...To me UK are no different to any of the other gank squads out to inflict as much damage as possible while flying through Providence (To date I've seen Star Fraction, Tau Ceti, AAA (Outbreak, SAS) & countless more).

---

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

---

There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict.

---

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

---

It seems to me that CVA are winning more friends in Providence (such as Sylph) by their consistent message to neutrals

---

Originally by: Marko Debreault

---

a CVA ally who operates NBSI (kill neutrals and hostiles) is IAC, which is a bit misleading, because IAC usually operates NRDS (only kill hostiles), except when they are under a lot of hostile pressure, which they currently are.

---

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

---

We are not NBSI in Providence, we are in several other regions at the moment, but only while we feel we have no choice, we will return to NRDS as soon as we can.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Everything I've said here is just to pour a little bucket of cold water on the self righteous propaganda Hardin likes to indulge in.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Vyktor Abyss

---

There's a lot of nonsense on here from Star Fraction and others who dont even live in Providence or understand the conflict.

---

I'll be even blunter than Jonny. We were asked a question in the op chum. Whats your excuse?

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

How amusing! You will never admit when you are wrong will you?

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

How amusing! You will never admit when you are wrong will you?

---

Lets see you justify an allied NSBI "when it suits them" and then explain to me the difference between that and your idea of "piracy" for a little additional "amusement" Hardin. You are the person caught with your pants around your ankles here - me, I'm just pointing it out

---

Originally by: Alois Hammer

---

funny............
this thread has been brought to my attention by my diplomatic/intel corp....
i must say , i have never seen so much bovine excrement in one place.....
up till recently , i WAS a staunch suporter of UK . so were many others. the fact that UK has decided to rally nothing but pirates and griefers saddens me. recently i was approached by one of them about paying rent for my system.....(in your dreams).
my alliance are industrial/ratting mix . we are not pvp"ers. but it will be a cold days in hell if these groups think they will own providence.
lol , yeah we are weak , not ready , and terrible at pvp.but my guys come out in noobships just to prove the point.
pirates will not own providence .
we want to see them start placing pos"s.
grin

---

Originally by: Eris Discordia

---

We break after X amount of threads, then we go wild and then we get our medication.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

What makes you better than any other NBSI/Pirate group that shoot all neutrals because "they feel they have no choice"? Basically you are coming up with silly excuses for why the exact same thing your allies condemn is "not as bad" when you do it. You shoot neutrals, they shoot neutrals. This is not a war of anti pirate vs pirate its a war of two power blocs contesting control of a region. Everything I've said here is just to pour a little bucket of cold water on the self righteous propaganda Hardin likes to indulge in.

---

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

---

CVA are not hypocrites for being friends with IAC.

We are not NBSI in Providence, we are in several other regions at the moment, but only while we feel we have no choice, we will return to NRDS as soon as we can.

---

Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk

---

It's quite simple and you obviously don't need it explained.
You simply choose not to understand it because it doesn't suit your purposes, everything you said here was simply to get a little more attention for yourself and your little band of blowhards.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

So we are persecuting you now simply because we point out that you are wrong? You may not accept that you are wrong - that's your perogative, but don't expect me to roll over when you decide to slander us to forward your (or SFs) own objectives.

---

Quote:

---

You seem to have a need to 'demonise' your enemies for whatever reason and yet cannot accept any criticism in return - indeed you characterise all criticism as a personal attack upon yourself even when it is simply an attack on your arguements. So be it.

---

Quote:

---

The CVA has an established reputation based upon its in game actions and its INTEGRITY - not least the fact that our objectives have been made blatantly clear from the start and we have never wavered in them. Unlike most alliances we are not into subterfuge and dirty dealing - we are the ultimate 'Does what it says on the tin' alliance... We kill terorists and we kill pirates - we always have and we always will. You may seek to tarnish our reputation for your own reasons but I think the majority here have enough wisdom can see through that simple ploy.

---

Originally by: Garreck

---

I've tried explaining this before, and I suppose I'll try again. It really is pretty simple: the act of NBSI itself, while very much counter to the way CVA prefers to operate, does not inherently make one evil or bad in CVA's eyes. Operating NBSI in CVA space (and, in general in Providence where we have interests) is, however, a fast-track to our KOS list.

IAC operate NBSI in their space. That's none of our business. They respect our rules in Providence. That is our business. And so far between IAC and CVA, business is just fine.

That's not hypocrisy. That's sovereign alliances respecting each-others sovereignty.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

I can see this discussion is upsetting you Hardin

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

You condemn the practise of NBSI in allies of your enemies while turning a blind eye to this practise in YOUR allies. This is hypocrisy - this is single objection I have made to your rhetoric on the subject.

---

Originally by: Seleene

---

Edited by: Seleene on 10/05/2007 15:17:25

Reading Jasmine and Hardin is like watching an excellent tennis match! Do continue!!

---

Originally by: Karn Mithralia

---

Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 10/05/2007 10:27:24



Yet the same day you posted that explanation I watched your guys help rob a neutral corp mining POS in DNR. How do I know it was neutral - I asked your guys and those being robbed who had never heard of IAC.

---

Originally by: Kharass Al'Quam

---

Thank god for the Minnies. At least they uphold the tradition of murder death to the dog race.

While the Gallente and Amarrian sit in Ivory towers beeing penpals.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

1. We disapprove of the use of NBSI by everyone - friendly or not. That includes IAC. If you dig around on these forums you will even find some posts by me congratulating IAC when they resumed NRDS after one of their previous NBSI periods and expressing a desire that they stuck to it. Not only that but we have worked with other neighbours such as Huzzah in the past and NOS more recently to ensure that they also adopt NRDS strategies across the bulk of their territories in Providence - and as a result the region has been one of the few areas in EVE where neutrals could pretty much venture where they liked provided they respected our no-piracy rules.

---

Quote:

---

2. At the same time IAC and every other alliance in this game is sovereign in their territory. While we may disapprove of their system it is not within our power to make them change - all we can do is continue to advocate the benefits of NRDS and demonstrate by example of how it can actually be made to work. Again, if you can be bothered to do some research you will find a number of posts by me outlining the benefits of NRDS and highlighting some of the challenges and rewards in instituting such a system.

---

Quote:

---

3. You also insist on lumping us together with IAC.

---

Quote:

---

4) You say that we only criticise NBSI in our enemies - as I have pointed out that is not true and have worked with all parties (friendly or not) with an interest in Providence to get them to adopt and NRDS policies. However, most normal people would probably understand those kind of discussions are not going to be publicly broadcast on these forums. Yes we will criticise our enemies publicly for adopting NBSI policies in Providence - they are after all our enemies and open to criticism and cooercion, but what is the point of alienating potential allies and friends publicly when a quiet word in the ear works much more effectively and achieves the same objective.

---

Quote:

---

I do not see any hypocrisy here. Providence has and will continue to be (once we have defeated the terrorist/pirate menace) a haven for neutral pilots interested in visiting 0.0 without having to pay taxes/rent/tribute to distant overlords.

---

Originally by: Jasmine Constantine

---

Thats irrelevant. The question here (and I'll keep dragging you back to it) is that you cannot justifiably condemn the Ushra'khan for benefiting from NBSI-class "pirate" allies

---

(Saying that they (Establishment/ENH/Bum/Evoke etc) are actually good foes and great to fight. I am certainly sure they are not taking great offense at being labelled 'ebil pirates' in the same way that UK isn't really upset about being called 'terrorists'. They probably understand it in the spirit that it is meant - something which you quite clearly don't! Who knows they may even enjoy it

Originally by: Hardin

---

(Saying that they (Establishment/ENH/Bum/Evoke etc) are actually good foes and great to fight. I am certainly sure they are not taking great offense at being labelled 'ebil pirates' in the same way that UK isn't really upset about being called 'terrorists'. They probably understand it in the spirit that it is meant - something which you quite clearly don't! Who knows they may even enjoy it

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

To call us pirates over and over on OOC channels is a slap in the face. To not recognise us as a regional power is a slap in the face. Your basicly saying that our history counts for nothing. our roleplay counts for nothing and you are lumping us in with commen low sec gankers.

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

I knew I shouldn't have bothered responding

---

Quote:

---

Yes we can because none of our friends have an NBSI policy in Providence and UK's do (outside UK sov systems). Neutrals in Providence have nothing to fear from CVA's friends but they do have to worry about Outbreak / Establishment / Evoke et al - as has been proved over the last week.

---

Quote:

---

The only reason you keep 'dragging' this topic up is because you have a political axe to grind against CVA and seem to be taking this way to seriously.

---

Quote:

---

I am afraid I am no longer going to bother playing along with you especially when it is clear that you will endlessly repeat the SAME arguements over and over again. I have made the necessary points that needed to be made.

---

Quote:

---

People can make up their own minds now. They can chose who they want to believe, either CVA or an individual in a corporation which prides itself on its forum warfare capabilities.

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

Edited by: Eddie Gordo on 10/05/2007 18:40:27
Maybe I got confused with a thread on eve-chatsubo or whatever that site is.

If you could clarify that you dont consider us pirates OOC i'll be happy

answer me first, I have a guest arriving soon and I dont want to look like a geek infront of female company!

---

Quote:

---

"What I will however point out is that Ushra'khan can never again claim to be an 'anti-pirate' alliance with bedfellows like those..." - Hardin

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

Originally by: Kharass Al'Quam

---

Thank god for the Minnies. At least they uphold the tradition of murder death to the dog race.

While the Gallente and Amarrian sit in Ivory towers beeing penpals.

---

Oh rest assured that us Amarrian do our fair share of shooting.

Why else would the brave Minmatar terrorists called in the nefarious foreign legion to save their arses?

Not that I am complaining as I, like the whole CVA and our loyalist friends, are enjoying the new challenge

However, it is amusing to waste working hours (when I cannot be logged in) exchanging missives with the misguided Gallente wench...

---

Quote:

---

nefarious foreign legion

---

Originally by: Eddie Gordo

---

Maybe I got confused with a thread on eve-chatsubo or whatever that site is.

If you could clarify that you dont consider us pirates OOC i'll be happy

answer me first, I have a guest arriving soon and I dont want to look like a geek infront of female company!

---

Originally by: Hardin

---

you no longer have credibility as an anti-pirate force

---

Originally by: Aindrias

---

Further, IMHO, this war was escalated not do to naked acts of aggression by CVA, but when U'K and IO were actively trying to gain sovereignty in the QBL Pocket of Providence by POS Spamming after they supposedly thought NOS was building a station there. CVA and NOS, for apparent reasons, did NOT want that to happen. This proved to CVA and NOS that U'K/IO at the time were escalating the conflict beyond the fun skirmishes prior. Right after that happened, IO stepped out of the picture leaving U'K by itself and op for attack... So I personally blame this whole thing on IO.

---

Originally by: Maggot

---

Originally by: Aindrias

---

Further, IMHO, this war was escalated not do to naked acts of aggression by CVA, but when U'K and IO were actively trying to gain sovereignty in the QBL Pocket of Providence by POS Spamming after they supposedly thought NOS was building a station there. CVA and NOS, for apparent reasons, did NOT want that to happen. This proved to CVA and NOS that U'K/IO at the time were escalating the conflict beyond the fun skirmishes prior. Right after that happened, IO stepped out of the picture leaving U'K by itself and op for attack... So I personally blame this whole thing on IO.



Nah, thats not quite true. Drop Hardin a line as I dont want to speak on his behalf.

---

The blaming IO thing is just an Opinion... but.. um...

check it

U'K Release


See what you can do with Paintbrush?

Originally by: Aindrias

---

I wouldn't normally jump in on a debate such as this but...

CVA says NBSI in Providence/Lowsec leading to Providence is Piracy, that's there stance.

They don't say 'NBSI everywhere is Piracy" even if they believe it, they don't say it because they couldn't enforce it anyways. So IAC being NBSI for the time being due to their current issues in their own space outside of Providence is "OK" and being friends/neutral with CVA is fine.

CVA is staying all those corps/allliance helping U'K atm, Establishment, Outbreak, Evoke, BUMs, etc are shooting neutrals IN PROVIDENCE/CVA space who are not involved with the U'K/friends vs CVA/friends War (which I love it btw, it's fun! )

So lets put this together in very simple terms.

NBSI in Prov/surrounding lowsec = Piracy to CVA

The Estab, Outbreak, Evoke, BUMs, etc are NBSI'ing in Prov so they = Pirates

(even though by definition... they're privateers (no, not the Alliance) because a sovereign alliance is enlisting them against another sovereign alliance... re: Sir Francis Drake).

The difference I see here is simply:

U'K is enlisting the help of corps/alliance who practice NBSI or other forms of random shooting/piracy e.g. Outbreak, Evoke, The Estab, BUMs in other areas of space.

CVA is enlisting the help of those around them that practice NRDS, Sylph, NOS, and other corps like PIE, Aegis Militia, Etc... who all reside near and in Providence.

Further, IMHO, this war was escalated not do to naked acts of aggression by CVA, but when U'K and IO were actively trying to gain sovereignty in the QBL Pocket of Providence by POS Spamming after they supposedly thought NOS was building a station there. CVA and NOS, for apparent reasons, did NOT want that to happen. This proved to CVA and NOS that U'K/IO at the time were escalating the conflict beyond the fun skirmishes prior. Right after that happened, IO stepped out of the picture leaving U'K by itself and op for attack... So I personally blame this whole thing on IO.

Yay for a history lesson.

All fine and good, but to those who didn't know that, NOW YOU DO

If you're KOS in Prov, expect to be attacked by all alliances/corps until your get yourself off that list.

MAYBE that clears things up. I for one don't see U'K as pirates, but enemies of war.

Further, NOS has always come with what they can when asked by CVA, but I think it's a bigger TIME ZONE thing with that.

Aindrias

---

Originally by: Caillech

---

Unless, of course, CVA continues its policy of NRDS and ends up with the same problem U'K faced, namely neutrals earning isk under their protection but adding no value to defense. In which case, they will probably get shot up by Hardin's pirates along with CVA.

---

Originally by: Vampire Lord

---

Originally by: Aindrias

---

I wouldn't normally jump in on a debate such as this but...

CVA says NBSI in Providence/Lowsec leading to Providence is Piracy, that's there stance.

They don't say 'NBSI everywhere is Piracy" even if they believe it, they don't say it because they couldn't enforce it anyways. So IAC being NBSI for the time being due to their current issues in their own space outside of Providence is "OK" and being friends/neutral with CVA is fine.

CVA is staying all those corps/allliance helping U'K atm, Establishment, Outbreak, Evoke, BUMs, etc are shooting neutrals IN PROVIDENCE/CVA space who are not involved with the U'K/friends vs CVA/friends War (which I love it btw, it's fun! )

So lets put this together in very simple terms.

NBSI in Prov/surrounding lowsec = Piracy to CVA

The Estab, Outbreak, Evoke, BUMs, etc are NBSI'ing in Prov so they = Pirates

(even though by definition... they're privateers (no, not the Alliance) because a sovereign alliance is enlisting them against another sovereign alliance... re: Sir Francis Drake).

The difference I see here is simply:

U'K is enlisting the help of corps/alliance who practice NBSI or other forms of random shooting/piracy e.g. Outbreak, Evoke, The Estab, BUMs in other areas of space.

CVA is enlisting the help of those around them that practice NRDS, Sylph, NOS, and other corps like PIE, Aegis Militia, Etc... who all reside near and in Providence.

Further, IMHO, this war was escalated not do to naked acts of aggression by CVA, but when U'K and IO were actively trying to gain sovereignty in the QBL Pocket of Providence by POS Spamming after they supposedly thought NOS was building a station there. CVA and NOS, for apparent reasons, did NOT want that to happen. This proved to CVA and NOS that U'K/IO at the time were escalating the conflict beyond the fun skirmishes prior. Right after that happened, IO stepped out of the picture leaving U'K by itself and op for attack... So I personally blame this whole thing on IO.

Yay for a history lesson.

All fine and good, but to those who didn't know that, NOW YOU DO

If you're KOS in Prov, expect to be attacked by all alliances/corps until your get yourself off that list.

MAYBE that clears things up. I for one don't see U'K as pirates, but enemies of war.

Further, NOS has always come with what they can when asked by CVA, but I think it's a bigger TIME ZONE thing with that.

Aindrias

---

You've just made a mistake sir. Would you like IO to come back to NOS space an finish pounding your crippled alliance back to empire were you belong. Do you really think a bunch of care bears should be pointing fingers at anyone politically knowing they can't defend themselves? Now were likely to come back an start blowing up you & your assets while your big sister is busy. Don't think because we've been away we've not been watching you. Your little history lesson should also reflect that fact that your alliance lost pretty much all there fighters due to the empire & 0.0 space beating it was taking. Note that IO numbers changed because we gave people a choice join one of the two corps or leave. Note that most of the hard core Killers/Capital pilots are still in IO. You have just become a target because of your stupidity

---

Originally by: Vampire Lord

---

You've just made a mistake sir. Would you like IO to come back to NOS space an finish pounding your crippled alliance back to empire were you belong. Do you really think a bunch of care bears should be pointing fingers at anyone politically knowing they can't defend themselves? Now were likely to come back an start blowing up you & your assets while your big sister is busy. Don't think because we've been away we've not been watching you. Your little history lesson should also reflect that fact that your alliance lost pretty much all there fighters due to the empire & 0.0 space beating it was taking. Note that IO numbers changed because we gave people a choice join one of the two corps or leave. Note that most of the hard core Killers/Capital pilots are still in IO. You have just become a target because of your stupidity

---