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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Tibullus	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:19:00 - [31] Edited by: Tibullus on 10/05/2007 14:15:42 Originally by: Mogrin One DDD firing per day. 100% capacitor usage on DDD firing, no minimum capacitor requirement just drains capacitor to 0. Minimum 70% capacitor needed to jump. Read his post before replying Titans can be fitted so that their base capacitor regen is approximately 10-20 seconds. Your idea solves nothing. [EDIT for spelling]
50freefly Caldari Purify	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:23:00 - [32] ...And we have a winner! Dude, I don't know whether to give you a standing ovation or counselling but nice thread! I'll read it tomorrow... Originally by: Eight Ace For reasons that have been lost in the mists of time all caldari ships are designed by two people. One does the left hand side and the other does the right. And they never meet.[/
Tibullus	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:23:00 - [33] Great thread. It must have taken you a very long time, but this is a valuable resource for the community, especially for those, like myself who aren't well-acquainted with the mechanics of 0.0 and the use of Titans. I'm about 90% through reading this stuff, and it looks like you've put a lot of thought into this and your ideas for solutions are reasonable and balanced. Your treatment of the issues seems airtight, and every possibility seems considered. I hope the developers take notice of this. Finally, thank you. This thread delivers. It does exactly what it says on the tin, and I do hope that it ends the slew of Titan rebalancing threads.
Rhaegor Stormborn Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:24:00 - [34] Holy long post. You make some good points, but I didn't read it all. I assume CCP already understands all these problems as they created them. Hopefully we will see some balance at some point in the near future.
Constable Detritus Katsu Corporation Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:26:00 - [35] reading that beast atm... will be back later ______________________________________ Repent, my sig is nigh!
Rashi Nerha Gallente The Devil's Rejects	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:31:00 - [36] Holy ----, how long did that take you to write?
Zirth Caldari Dragonian Freelancers CORE.	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:34:00 - [37] Amazing work, quality stuff here.
Marquis Dean Energy.	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:35:00 - [38] Wow, nice thread but none of your links work for me, and this thread doesn't have a title. Also, this needs a sticky in GD tbh. --- Originally by: korrey Marquis I have to admit, without you there wouldn't be much laughter in these forums.
Bein Glorious GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Rashi Nerha Holy ----, how long did that take you to write? About a week, I finished writing it a while ago and it's been through over a half a dozen drafts ever since. Originally by: Marquis Dean Wow, nice thread but none of your links work for me, and this thread doesn't have a title. Also, this needs a sticky in GD tbh. Yeah the title disappeared because the "Bein Glorious edited this post..." thing added to the edit pushed the character count over 4000, which nuked the title. Also, I ran out of characters making the URL links and there's no way to fix it because of the character limit so oh well vv
Donna Maria Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:39:00 - [40] This doesnt need a sticky. This is an opinion of someone that doesnt want Titans used on his alliance. Self-serving interest FTL... What is it thats always said to 'Miners/People that dont like Pirates/Caldari/' Adapt ! Im the girl momma warned you about..

Mogrin	Posted - 2007.05.10 14:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Donna Maria This doesnt need a sticky. This is an opinion of someone that doesnt want Titans used on his alliance. Self-serving interest FTL... What is it thats always said to 'Miners/People that dont like Pirates/Caldari/' Adapt ! If you had a first grade education you'd know that hes already pointed out that you can't adapt. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
Kramer Verone Amarr	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:19:00 - [42] Originally by: Donna Maria i'm a troll yes you are I intend on reading this thread right away, even though a goon wrote it. Just out of sheer respect to the OP for caring for eve this much to have written all this about one subject.
Meriatalantra TerraDyne Syndicate	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:33:00 - [43] Edited by: Meriatalantra on 10/05/2007 15:32:23 Originally by: Donna Maria This doesnt need a sticky. This is an opinion of someone that doesnt want Titans used on his alliance. Self-serving interest FTL... What is it thats always said to 'Miners/People that dont like Pirates/Caldari/' Adapt ! Seconded. I mean, it's a very nice post, well reasoned and all that, but it is obviously one sided and talks about a whole load of solutions that CCP will never implement. My biggest gripe is that the OP did several annoying things. First of all he talks of abuse of the Titan's abilities but in fact merely points out a number of legitimate tactics given the current game mechanics which he, personally is not happy about. Sure, he mentions exploitation as well (Capital bowling! Not heard of that one before but sounds like fun ) but on the whole he's just bealing about how he doesn't like capitals. And that's my second gripe. Under his Problems section he really should have included, as point #1, "We don't have one!". Don't get me wrong, I think it's a fine post, just horribly polarised. The first few thousand words are great reading for anyone who wants a single point of reference about Titan abilities and can't be arsed looking it up for themselves. But otherwise, there is nothing new here at all.
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:34:00 - [44] Whether I agree with you or not (and on some of it I certainly don't), this is exactly the classy way to discuss such issues. One correction: the build time is only 47 days if I remember rightly, not 3 months.
krystal eyes	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:40:00 - [45] Originally by: Meriatalantra Sure, he mentions exploitation as well (Capital bowling! Not heard of that one before but sounds like fun ) Capital bowling IS NOT (confirmed by multiple petitions, escalated to senior GMs) reapeat IS NOT an exploit. Supercapitals are free to bump ships out of POS with impunity. There is no defence (how could there be?) and the GMs have ruled it not an exploit. Again, any ship at a POS can be bumped outside the POS shields and doomsday'd by a supercapital with no defence, no warning and no method of retaliation. (supercap regains cap and jumps out of system in <10 seconds, before any tackler that was tanked enough to not be doomsday'd can reach it). No defence, no retaliation. None possible. Not an exploit. I believe the final confirmation that this was NOT an exploit came through after bane completed his last revision.
Macharial	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:57:00 - [46] Originally by: krystal eyes Originally by: Meriatalantra Sure, he mentions exploitation as well (Capital bowling! Not heard of that one before but sounds like fun ) Capital bowling IS NOT (confirmed by multiple petitions, escalated to senior GMs) reapeat IS NOT an exploit. Supercapitals are free to bump ships out of POS with impunity. There is no defence (how could there be?) and the GMs have ruled it not an exploit. Again, any ship at a POS can be bumped outside the POS shields and doomsday'd by a supercapital with no defence, no warning and no method of retaliation. (supercap regains cap and jumps out of system in <10 seconds, before any tackler that was tanked enough to not be doomsday'd can reach it). No defence, no retaliation. None possible. Not an exploit. I believe the final confirmation that this was NOT an exploit came through after bane completed his last revision. allow me to restate, titans are immune to scrambling, there is no "tackler" that can touch one.
Twilight Moon Minmatar Malicious Intentions Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.10 15:58:00 - [47] Originally by: Bein Glorious Allow me to throw out this little number that people (me) throw out on the forums from time to time. It assumes Energy Management V and Energy Systems Operation V: 027 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 4050.0 028 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 4050.0 => 3240.0 029 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3240.0 => 2073.6 030 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2073.6 => 1327.1 031 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1327.1 => 849.35 032 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 849.35 => 543.58 033 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 543.58 => 347.89 034 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 347.89 => 234.83 035 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 234.83 => 158.51 036 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 158.51 => 106.99 037 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 106.99 => 72.22 038 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 72.22 => 48.75 039 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 48.75 => 32.91 040 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 32.91 => 22.21 041 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 22.21 => 14.99 seconds Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf?
Xiao Up	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:00:00 - [48] Look, you're entitled to think whatever you want about Titan imbalances and nerfing needs, and other people are entitled to think that you're only posting this because Remedial wants all of you people to post nerf-titan threads because your alliance doesn't want Titans to be used against them. But, please for the love of god, since this is the most complete and longest and most involved and most thorough thread EVER EVER EVER EVER to have been posted on EVE-Online, can you get the rest of your alliances' alts to STOP POSTING TITAN NERF THREADS now, and rely on this one? ~X
Xiao Up	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:02:00 - [49] Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Bein Glorious Allow me to throw out this little number that people (me) throw out on the forums from time to time. It assumes Energy Management V and Energy Systems Operation V: 027 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 4050.0 028 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 4050.0 => 3240.0 029 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3240.0 => 2073.6 030 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2073.6 => 1327.1 031 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1327.1 => 849.35 032 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 849.35 => 543.58 033 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 543.58 => 347.89 034 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 347.89 => 234.83 035 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 234.83 => 158.51 036 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 158.51 => 106.99 037 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 106.99 => 72.22 038 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 72.22 => 48.75 039 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 48.75 => 32.91 040 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 32.91 => 22.21 041 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 22.21 => 14.99 seconds Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf? Eh, I think the stacking nerf might be applied there, as it looks like that came out of quickfit or something. But... You've just doubled the price of your titan by adding those mods. As if 50 billion wasn't enough, now somehow you need another 30 billion worth of cap mods?
Cartographer X	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:03:00 - [50] Reiterating the request to have this thread stickied. I think anyone who's had any dealings with titans knows that some serious discussion of how they stand to affect the game is overdue. Given the tremendous amount of empirical information presented here (Bein's opinions and recommendations notwithstanding) I don't think there will be a better place for that discussion. tl;dr - sticky this, get a dev to reply

Iraf Thaiberd GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:03:00 - [51] Originally by: Twilight Moon Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf? Stacking nerf in no way applies to capacitor regen modules or rigs. In fact, because they are not stacking nerfed and are multiplicative, each successive cap regen mod is actually better than the last.
Zeta Strike	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:03:00 - [52] Edited by: Zeta Strike on 10/05/2007 15:59:31 n/m
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:04:00 - [53] Bumping ships out of the shields by utilizing poorly implemented (buggy) collision detection algorithm is obviously a valid claim for reimbursement and should also be bug reported. However . The fact that Amarr weapons (lasers) do not pass the POS shield is a BUG. If you can see inside the shields without a scanner, obviously the laser weapons which are also of visible frequency since you can see them firing, should pass the shields with no problem. So once again, CCP has nerfed Amarr ships.
Xalorn Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Donna Maria Self-serving interest FTL... Last I checked, both sides in the current Eve War have titans. Lets look at the facts from the outside... -The red swarm alliance controls more stations than anyone else in the game. -The red swarm alliance have over 5000+ pilots, some of which have been around a very long time. Odds of at least one titan cooking in red swarm territory are high.
Olea Avenger Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:05:00 - [55] Edited by: Olea Avenger on 10/05/2007 16:04:14 Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Bein Glorious Allow me to throw out this little number that people (me) throw out on the forums from time to time. It assumes Energy Management V and Energy Systems Operation V: 027 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 4050.0 028 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 4050.0 => 3240.0 029 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3240.0 => 2073.6 030 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2073.6 => 1327.1 031 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1327.1 => 849.35 032 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 849.35 => 543.58 033 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 543.58 => 347.89 034 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 347.89 => 234.83 035 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 234.83 => 158.51 036 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 158.51 => 106.99 037 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 106.99 => 72.22 038 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 72.22 => 48.75 039 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 48.75 => 32.91 040 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 32.91 => 22.21 041 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 22.21 => 14.99 seconds Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf? There is no stacking nerf on capacitor recharge modifications currently. Edit: Beaten by Iraf. For the record I am not a fan of adding a stacking nerf to cap recharge mods. However, in the case of officer mods + titan, they do become quite overpowered. Sign up for the campaign against Angel ratts today.
Sally Slowboat	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:07:00 - [56] Edited by: Sally Slowboat on 10/05/2007 16:04:23 Originally by: Xiao Up Look, you're entitled to think whatever you want about Titan imbalances and nerfing needs, and other people are entitled to think that you're only posting this because Remedial wants all of you people to post nerf-titan threads because your alliance doesn't want Titans to be used against them. Uh, Remedial doesn't lead the goons any more. Additionally, the goons have multiple friendly alliances with titans so this would affect their allies as well. Bringing politics into this debate is completely irrelevant anyway as it is simply a matter of mechanics. With that in mind, it would be nice if the stupid political arguments were left at the door. I agree with a lot of this, but I'm no expert on the subject. The POS bowling with not defense seems pretty damn crazy though. I'd hope that would be a high priority fix, if there were any fixes incoming.
Lemen Meringue Cult of Lemen	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:07:00 - [57] Originally by: Twilight Moon Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf? Those numbers were confirmed by a BoB titan pilot some time ago actually.
Kerfira	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:07:00 - [58] A well-written post, but as so many have said, heavily colored by the writers point of view, and can thus not be seen as anything but, quite frankly, a selfish attempt at gaining back the abusive powers his alliance used to wield.... The poster is part of an alliance who's made Blob Node-Crash powers into their primary weapon (JV1 anyone?), so any kind of anti-blob weapon (and titans ARE a good one of these) are of.c. going to be attacked (verbally at least) heavily by them. I'll compare this to a small alliance who hasn't got capitals, complaining over having their POS' blown up by 20 dreads of another much stronger alliance. It's just on a bigger scale.... I too think there are things to adjust on Titan functionality, but while some of the OP's suggestions good, others are just as un-balanced as he claims Titans are. It's a good example of: Mix lies and truths in the right amount, and people will swallow the lies.... So, a good piece of propaganda, but hardly balanced or impartial... (Yes, I know Remedial ordered you all to whine on the forums... You get a cookie...) However, I do commend you on your writing skills.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Mogrin	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:08:00 - [59] Originally by: Meriatalantra First of all he talks of abuse of the Titan's abilities but in fact merely points out a number of legitimate tactics given the current game mechanics which he, personally is not happy about. The alternative would be.. what, being happy with the legitimate tactics given the current game mechanics and then talk about their abuse? Or better yet not playing eve at all to ensure to Meriatalantra that the thoughtful post came from a completely unbiased source? Its abuse the same way warp core stabilizers were consider an abuse by many until CCP put some huge debuffs on fitting WCS. One could fit a combat ship with a WCS and warp away from a fight while others may not have one fitted. That devolved combat in an uninteded way. The things you can do with a titan with impunity are abuses of it. HUGE HP and e-war immunity was meant to make a titan tough. Taking such an aspect of a ship and using it for stuff like bowling or POS ammo draining are abuses of an ability for which its not necessarily intended, just as warp core stabilizers on a gank ravens in a pirate gank squads was an abuse. One the one hand ravens are high dps and given a tackler can simply own stuff. But if they were to begin losing the fight those WCS make the difference from win/lose to win/run. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
deadEd	Posted - 2007.05.10 16:11:00 - [60] Originally by: Xiao Up But... You've just doubled the price of your titan by adding those mods. As if 50 billion wasn't enough, now somehow you need another 30 billion worth of cap mods? I think it stands to reason that any alliance that can afford a Titan (or multiple Titans as the case is proving to be) is going to outfit it as best as they can, and given they can afford multiple Titans, high end officer/deadspace/cosmos/whatever fittings aren't going to be a problem financially, especially considering they'll render the ship basically unkillable (well outside of ridiculous theorycrafted fleet compositions that could never actually work in any actual in-game situation).



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