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Natas Dog Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:46:00 - [91] Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 10/05/2007 16:06:26 The poster is part of an alliance who's made Blob Node-Crash powers into their primary weapon (JV1 anyone?), so any kind of anti-blob weapon (and titans ARE a good one of these) are of.c. going to be attacked (verbally at least) heavily by them. I'll entertain you on this one. Why did over 1000 people show up to that engagement in JV1V in the first place? Because there was not only a Titan on the other side of that gate waiting to stop us, but a multitude of large warp bubbles and a 300+ man enemy gang on the other side with an insane amount of fighter support. To try and accuse one side of blobbing without taking the other side's blobbing transgressions into account isn't very smart. If you take the entire campaign against LV into account, you'll find that JV1V was about the only scenario where we brought overwhelming force into play, and it was as a counter to the enemy's overwhelming defense. Regardless, this topic is about Titan balance and I shouldn't be feeding the trolls. Great OP, I agree that some if not all of the suggested balancing changes should be implemented. Being DDed with no chance of retaliation gets old after the 4th or 5th time. I got DDed sitting at a 20 man gate camp while waiting for a POS to online last week; anti-blob weapon my ass. The real kicker is that there was an enemy gang of sufficient force to put up a real toe to toe fight nearby when the cyno ship came in and dropped the titan on us. If I was on the other side of the fence, I'd get real tired of sacrificing good fights just to allow some guy with a titan to up his killboard stats. _______________________________________________________________ He who laughs last... is usually the one the joke was about.
Forsch Auctoritan Syndicate Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:46:00 - [92] Good post. Hopefully CCP will at least take the time to honor this effort with a comment. Forsch Defender of the empire
Xiao Up	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:50:00 - [93] Originally by: Engel Atomic [...] Don't say 'he's a Goon, this post must be wrong' in a flat blanket statement. I myself am skipping over these without supporting evidence. I'm not saying he's right myself; I am also not saying he's necessarily wrong. I'm not saying he's right, and I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm saying I genuinely don't care if he's right or wrong. All I care about is that at some point, the goons started posting at least 3 "OMFG TITANS ARE BROKEN NERF PLS KTHXBAI" threads per day. If everyone is in agreement that this thread is the be-all-end-all of all the "Titans are overpowered" threads, then all I want is: PLEASE STOP POSTING THE OTHER ONES. Let's keep all discussion about the brokenness of Titans in THIS thread, and please tell the other people in your alliance to stop spamming the rest of the forums with new threads. That is all.
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:52:00 - [94] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here: Linkage You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left... DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view. Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse) Why don't you go dis-honour some more 1v1s Busy getting mails you never will. Or rephrased: I had 1vs1 with d2, junior. Only people who THINK they are superior to me may use that phrase. You have a serious self-denial problem if you think that is the case.
Genevieve Mitsuda Meridian Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:52:00 - [95] To the OP: Excellent post. You bring up some really good points. To the dissenters: People who say that GS is simply "hating" on Titans because they don't have one, well, two things. 1)I believe GS is building one (heard through the grapevine that they are at least raising funds. So why would they bash/try to get nerfed a ship they intend to use in the future? 2)Partially you are right. At the moment, the Titans are probably making GS life difficult. Do you honestly expect all arguments to have 0 bias or reason for even existing? Someone truly unbiased and uncaring would never argue anything; they'd have no cause. Don't act pious and innocent -- if the situation were reversed, you'd do the same. =) To the hurfdurf people who want to get all "double the price of the ship in officer mods", way to miss the point. Can anyone run QuickFit on an Avatar, with say, the 2nd or 3rd best-in-game cap mods to show the difference? I doubt it's alot. And please, please for the love of god don't go all naive on me and pretend the people flying Titans can't afford what was in that quickfit. Even if they don't use all of it, it's a POTENTIAL. The point is that the mechanics in the game that create weak spots for Titans (and Motherships even) are easily snubbed out. I thought Titans were supposed to be the be-all end-all of warfare, the ultimate. Now, when BoB or someone else announces a new Titan, I just yawn and go, "Oh well, there goes another one." To the (mostly BoB/BoB allied) people who point their nose to the sky and say, "Titans are weak, mmkay?" -- when was the last time a Titan was actually killed in combat. Not bumped, not stupidly logged off with aggro timer, not "Suspicious circumstances" but like, a fleet engaged a Titan because the Titan was in active combat, and that fleet won? I don't know of any. So really, produce this "Titans are the Weakest Ship Evar, might as well fly an Ibis" proof.
Jane Spondogolo NoobWaffe	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:56:00 - [96] Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 10/05/2007 17:53:57 Originally by: Xiao Up Originally by: Engel Atomic [...] Don't say 'he's a Goon, this post must be wrong' in a flat blanket statement. I myself am skipping over these without supporting evidence. I'm not saying he's right myself; I am also not saying he's necessarily wrong. I'm not saying he's right, and I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm saying I genuinely don't care if he's right or wrong. All I care about is that at some point, the goons started posting at least 3 "OMFG TITANS ARE BROKEN NERF PLS KTHXBAI" threads per day. If everyone is in agreement that this thread is the be-all-end-all of all the "Titans are overpowered" threads, then all I want is: PLEASE STOP POSTING THE OTHER ONES. Let's keep all discussion about the brokenness of Titans in THIS thread, and please tell the other people in your alliance to stop spamming the rest of the forums with new threads. That is all. This is the only one I've seen by them actually. They have a forum ban I think and need permission from a director to post. I know other non goons have posted quite a few however. Its a problem thats really ruining the game for pretty much the majority of the 0.0 community. edit: I believe the stats atm on the mods are based on scans done on the ships currently flying. So yes. Thats whats floating about. ______ Unrepentant Southern Federation Cheerleader.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.10 17:59:00 - [97] Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 17:59:46 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 17:58:40 Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here: Linkage You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left... DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view. Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse) Why don't you go dis-honour some more 1v1s Busy getting mails you never will. Or rephrased: I had 1vs1 with d2, junior. Only people who THINK they are superior to me may use that phrase. You have a serious self-denial problem if you think that is the case. Just for you: suggested literature Back on topic, titans are perfectly fine. Try building or buying (hi RA/smash incident) supercapital and come back. I'm sure 90% of people whining here didn't get dded yet and just doing the preemptive whine about toy that they won't get. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Janu Hull Caldari Order of Z Industries	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:03:00 - [98] Nicely put together. I think the ultimate distillation of the OPs analysis points at three major flaws in Titans. 1) Remote Doomsday use. 2) Unparallelled capacitor recharge. 3) E-war immunity. The first point is obvious. Absolutely poor consideration for consequences. Sure, it requires two people, but demonstrate a circumstance where a Titan will ever fight solo... The second point is a matter of design. Its a monster of a ship, sure, but as any electrical engineer will tell you, capacity is easy, load gets complicated. The fact that it has such amazing capacity for energy storage should not immediately imply that it has the technology to regenerate it at such an astonishing level. No other ship in the game could accomplish such an amazing level of capacitor regeneration on their capacitor batteries, even with a full rack of capacitor regen modules. That problem can be mitigated in one of two ways. Either the base capacitor regeneration level can be reduced, or the number of slots available for components can come down. E-war immunity strikes me as a very odd ability in supercapital starships. Ok, so you're saying that the machine has so much power that it can blow through anything that's thrown at it. Sensors too powerful to jam, even by a fleet of ECM ships. Warp cores so stable that a wormhole opening in the engine room wouldn't tweak it. Propulsion systems so powerful nothing can rob it of interial thrust. All that, and not a single negative side effect to boot. WCS, Sensor boosters, ECCM, all completely obsolete at the supercapital level. And PvP players say they don't metagame... This is my sig, there are many others just like it. With me, my sig is worthless. Without (or with even) my sig, I am worthless...
Genevieve Mitsuda Meridian Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:07:00 - [99] First.... Originally by: LUKEC Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. Then... Originally by: LUKEC Back on topic, titans are perfectly fine. Wait.......what So, do Titans have a problem, or not?
Zeta Strike	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:07:00 - [100] Originally by: LUKEC Back on topic, titans are perfectly fine. Try building or buying (hi RA/smash incident) supercapital and come back. I'm sure 90% of people whining here didn't get dded yet and just doing the preemptive whine about toy that they won't get. You sure present a compelling counter-argument to the op's well written and well researched post. How about you try citing reasons and evidence as to why they're "perfectly fine"? Or are we supposed to just take your word as gospel?
Cur Minmatar Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:11:00 - [101] Good ideas Bein and I agree with your suggested changes. I also think all capital ships need to be reviewed. "What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Shin Ra BURN EDEN	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:13:00 - [102] Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 17:59:46 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 17:58:40 Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here: Linkage You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left... DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view. Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse) Why don't you go dis-honour some more 1v1s Busy getting mails you never will. Or rephrased: I had 1vs1 with d2, junior. Only people who THINK they are superior to me may use that phrase. You have a serious self-denial problem if you think that is the case. Just for you: suggested literature Back on topic, titans are perfectly fine. Try building or buying (hi RA/smash incident) supercapital and come back. I'm sure 90% of people whining here didn't get dded yet and just doing the preemptive whine about toy that they won't get. Thanks, I already have that book. I used it to create this for you: Linkage
Nyxus GALAXIAN Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:17:00 - [103] Well thought out, well written post. I wish we had more posts with as much thought put into them as this one. It's long, but honestly it had to be because of all that is just completely broken on the Titan. Half of the Titan abilities are stupidly overpowered (EW immunity, OMGCAP=Invicibility), the other half either broken or so poorly implemented they might as well be (clone vat, jump portal). I have to agree with your assessment and conclusion. Ironically, the Titans were orginally supposed to be mobile stations and logistics ships. Now they are just I-Win buttons where the isk/reward ratio is skewed so far that it has broken the meter. It's this bad now with less than 10 Titans in game. As Bein adroitely points out, how bad will it be when there are 20+? Nyxus The Gallente ideals of Freedom, Liberty and Equality will be met by the Amarr realities of Lasers, Armor and Battleships.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:20:00 - [104] Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 17:59:46 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 17:58:40 Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Shin Ra Originally by: LUKEC Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:37:37 Edited by: LUKEC on 10/05/2007 16:32:49 Full whinatorium can be found here: Linkage You really want to nerf the ship that remedial comissioned in building... oh wait he left... DOH wrong link, but you get the point, deluded, misguided and very entertaining from our point of view. Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse) Why don't you go dis-honour some more 1v1s Busy getting mails you never will. Or rephrased: I had 1vs1 with d2, junior. Only people who THINK they are superior to me may use that phrase. You have a serious self-denial problem if you think that is the case. Just for you: suggested literature Back on topic, titans are perfectly fine. Try building or buying (hi RA/smash incident) supercapital and come back. I'm sure 90% of people whining here didn't get dded yet and just doing the preemptive whine about toy that they won't get. Thanks, I already have that book. I used it to create this for you: Linkage Already have it, but commie version, same as ET have. But is it just me, or are you bitter about something? -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
The MapMaker	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:23:00 - [105] Originally by: Genevieve Mitsuda To the OP: Excellent post. You bring up some really good points. 1)I believe GS is building one (heard through the grapevine that they are at least raising funds. So why would they bash/try to get nerfed a ship they intend to use in the future? Yeah I'm sure everyone has faith in CCP's competency to trust they'll make a balancing change The Titan problem surpasses petty politics and alliance/coalition forum trolling; it is an issue with the fundamental mechanics of EVE and unbalances the entire game- regardless of what corporation you fly for.
Ren Hanxue Gallente Duragon Pioneer Group GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:33:00 - [106] Some people seem to have missed this part of the OP: Quote: On a Titan, having essentially infinite capacitor guarantees survival, but recharging a few thousand cap/s on a thorax isnÆt going to make you invincible. The point is, on any other ship than a titan, it would make no sense whatsoever to fit 50 billion's worth of officer cap rechargers/cap power relays. Sure, you can do it on pretty much any battleship and it'll get an insane cap recharge, too, but what would you use that for? On a titan, though, you're pretty much guaranteed survival with that kind of cap recharge, since the only thing that can stop you from just cyno'ing out or doomsdaying is a lack of capacitor. You've already made a 60? 80? 100? billion investment in your titan, and that makes investing another 20-50 billion in modules that makes it virtually indestructible a rather sensible prospect from a purely economical standpoint.
Xiao Up	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:35:00 - [107] Originally by: Jane Spondogolo Edited by: Jane Spondogolo on 10/05/2007 17:53:57 Originally by: Xiao Up Originally by: Engel Atomic [...] Don't say 'he's a Goon, this post must be wrong' in a flat blanket statement. I myself am skipping over these without supporting evidence. I'm not saying he's right myself; I am also not saying he's necessarily wrong. I'm not saying he's right, and I'm not saying he's wrong. I'm saying I genuinely don't care if he's right or wrong. All I care about is that at some point, the goons started posting at least 3 "OMFG TITANS ARE BROKEN NERF PLS KTHXBAI" threads per day. If everyone is in agreement that this thread is the be-all-end-all of all the "Titans are overpowered" threads, then all I want is: PLEASE STOP POSTING THE OTHER ONES. Let's keep all discussion about the brokenness of Titans in THIS thread, and please tell the other people in your alliance to stop spamming the rest of the forums with new threads. That is all. This is the only one I've seen by them actually. They have a forum ban I think and need permission from a director to post. I know other non goons have posted quite a few however. Its a problem thats really ruining the game for pretty much the majority of the 0.0 community. edit: I believe the stats atm on the mods are based on scans done on the ships currently flying. So yes. Thats whats floating about. You're kidding, right? http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=517891 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518057 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=518179 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=515093 (not goon, but another titan whine) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516967 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=517993 (coalition post, but he doesn't take orders from goons, so wha'eva) http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516163 (ditto) There's a good number of Titan nerf threads. While it's impossible to prove that they're all at the behest of goonswarm... Can we just request that this be the end of 'em? Ask nicely. (And also on topic, the OP has a few good points, but don't make the mistake of assuming because his post is long and well formatted that the content is as good. There are some bad points in there, too). ~X
Popoi GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:37:00 - [108] Originally by: LUKEC Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse) A sample size of under a dozen (not sure of the exact number) isn't enough to make any kind of decent conclusion about a ship's survivability, even before you take the bias of that sample (i.e. all the kills were unpiloted ships) into account.
Carsidava Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:39:00 - [109] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Twilight Moon Originally by: Bein Glorious Allow me to throw out this little number that people (me) throw out on the forums from time to time. It assumes Energy Management V and Energy Systems Operation V: 027 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 4050.0 028 - Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 4050.0 => 3240.0 029 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3240.0 => 2073.6 030 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2073.6 => 1327.1 031 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1327.1 => 849.35 032 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 849.35 => 543.58 033 - Draclira's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 543.58 => 347.89 034 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 347.89 => 234.83 035 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 234.83 => 158.51 036 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 158.51 => 106.99 037 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 106.99 => 72.22 038 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 72.22 => 48.75 039 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 48.75 => 32.91 040 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 32.91 => 22.21 041 - Draclira's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 22.21 => 14.99 seconds Did you happen to forget about a little thing called the Stacking Nerf? Look at the decressing totals per module. It does show stacking nerf. Think first. Actually, it doesn't show a stacking nerf. A stacking nerf means that the first module you fit provides 100% of its total benefit. The second module provides 86.9% of its total benefit. The third provides 57%. The fourth provides 28.3%. The fifth provides 10.6%. The sixth provides 3%. The seventh provides 0.6%. The eighth provides 0.1%. Draclira's Modified CPR reduces the recharge rate by 32.5%. If you fit two of them, then your new recharge rate would be ( 1 - 0.325 ) * ( 1 - ( 0.87 * 0.325 ) ) or 48.4% of the original recharge rate, which in this case would take the recharge rate from 347.89 to 168.50. If you go through the math, if CPRs were stacking nerfed and you fit eight of them on this Titan, then your recharge rate would be 118.92 seconds instead of 14.99 seconds. So no, it doesn't show the stacking nerf.
Phelan Driscoll GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:51:00 - [110] Edited by: Phelan Driscoll on 10/05/2007 18:47:57 Originally by: Xiao Up (And also on topic, the OP has a few good points, but don't make the mistake of assuming because his post is long and well formatted that the content is as good. There are some bad points in there, too). If the content is bad and there are bad points, perhaps you would care to point out what those points are and why they are bad. It's obvious Bane put in a lot of work to this post. If you're going to be a critic, making some constructive points would be nice.
prak Iscariot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:52:00 - [111] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr What surprises me more is that there is never any BoB publicly saying how broken a concept they are, regardless of how many fights Titans take away from your average BoB grunt. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516869&page=1#27 Originally by: Shrike As a now professional bowler, i will say this. Gangwarping 20 capitals into a POS and do starbursts is, rather nice to look at. However, this is broken, totally and utterly borked. It should not be possible, but, people should also be forced to use Ship Maint arrays to park a ship. So, find us a solution where people have to use the ship array, and where we professional bowlers gets the finger. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=516869&page=2#60 Originally by: Chowdown Bumpy bumpy, Nerf Titans!
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:56:00 - [112] Originally by: Popoi Edited by: Popoi on 10/05/2007 18:35:30 Originally by: LUKEC Titans are probably ships with worst survivability ratio ever. (I think only special gaming commissioned ships have worse) A sample size of under a dozen (not sure of the exact number) isn't enough to make any kind of decent conclusion about a ship's general survivability, even before you take the bias of that sample (i.e. all the kills were unpiloted ships) into account. You just proved that this thread is unnecessary. IF there is not enough titans to make decent conclussions about survivabiltiy when nearly 1/3 of titans died, how can you claim that they are overpowered, imba, and need changing? -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Haio	Posted - 2007.05.10 18:56:00 - [113] Edited by: Haio on 10/05/2007 18:53:38 nvm not going to support the Troll. Lukec go to CAOD and troll with your alts there instead.
Garna Devka	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:00:00 - [114] Originally by: LUKEC Originally by: Popoi IF there is not enough titans to make decent conclussions about survivabiltiy when nearly 1/3 of titans died, how can you claim that they are overpowered, imba, and need changing? They all died due to out of game reasons. And you know that.
0mega	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:07:00 - [115] Originally by: Carsidava ...So no, it doesn't show the stacking nerf ... Just to end this debate, here is an IRC log of a chat with Amithranus/Orange Species, Dice CEO and Ragnarok pilot. This was in a public channel so I'm sure old Daz doesn't mind :) Quote: <@Dread\|out> i get rigs next patch \o/ <@Dread\|out> under 2 min recharge time ftw ... <@Dread\|out> 125k cap with 117 sec recharge :) <@TheRat> Got a full rack of chelm's ? <@Dread\|out> chelm/drac <@TheRat> how's shrikes cap? <@TheRat> better right? <@Dread\|out> fitting costs more than the ship ... <@Dread\|out> if i were to fit cap relays as well <@Dread\|out> my recharge time would be under 20 seconds <@TheRat> heh <@TheRat> who needs a tank when they cant be locked down <@Dread\|out> 16.5 seconds to be exact <@Dread\|out> or in gang with shrike <@Dread\|out> 11 seconds <@TheRat> You have to admit, that's pretty stupid and game breaking <@Dread\|out> 20k cap/sec at optimal <@Dread\|out> not really <@Dread\|out> when you consider the isk
Mogrin	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:12:00 - [116] Originally by: 0mega Originally by: Carsidava ...So no, it doesn't show the stacking nerf ... Just to end this debate, here is an IRC log of a chat with Amithranus/Orange Species, Dice CEO and Ragnarok pilot. This was in a public channel so I'm sure old Daz doesn't mind :) Quote: <@Dread\|out> i get rigs next patch \o/ <@Dread\|out> under 2 min recharge time ftw ... <@Dread\|out> 125k cap with 117 sec recharge :) <@TheRat> Got a full rack of chelm's ? <@Dread\|out> chelm/drac <@TheRat> how's shrikes cap? <@TheRat> better right? <@Dread\|out> fitting costs more than the ship ... <@Dread\|out> if i were to fit cap relays as well <@Dread\|out> my recharge time would be under 20 seconds <@TheRat> heh <@TheRat> who needs a tank when they cant be locked down <@Dread\|out> 16.5 seconds to be exact <@Dread\|out> or in gang with shrike <@Dread\|out> 11 seconds <@TheRat> You have to admit, that's pretty stupid and game breaking <@Dread\|out> 20k cap/sec at optimal <@Dread\|out> not really <@Dread\|out> when you consider the isk Thread Completed. _______________ Rokh vs. Hyperion
Mont Claran	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:29:00 - [117] Edited by: Mont Claran on 10/05/2007 19:26:59 Originally by: Carsidava So no, it doesn't show the stacking nerf. That's because there isn't a stacking nerf on Cap Recharge modules. Here it is with second-best named, Vizan's, at 32% Vizan's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 3442.5 Vizan's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3442.5 => 2340.9 Vizan's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2340.9 => 1591.81 Vizan's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1591.81 => 1082.43 Vizan's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1082.43 => 736.05 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 736.05 => 510.64 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 510.64 => 354.25 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 354.25 => 245.76 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 245.76 => 170.5 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 170.5 => 118.28 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 118.28 => 82.06 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 82.06 => 56.93 Vizan's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 56.93 => 39.49 Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 39.49 => 31.6 Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 31.6 => 25.28 And for kicks, 3rd best, Raysere's: Raysere's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 5062.5 => 3645.0 Raysere's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 3645.0 => 2624.4 Raysere's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 2624.4 => 1889.57 Raysere's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1889.57 => 1360.49 Raysere's Modified Cap Recharger -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 1360.49 => 979.55 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 979.55 => 697.93 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 697.93 => 497.28 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 497.28 => 354.31 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 354.31 => 252.45 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 252.45 => 179.87 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 179.87 => 128.16 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 128.16 => 91.31 Raysere's Modified Capacitor Power Relay -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 91.31 => 65.06 Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 65.06 => 52.05 Capacitor Control Circuit II -> Avatar.rechargeRate : 52.05 => 41.64 That means that even with third best named capacitor equipment, you have 41 seconds to go from 0% capacitor to full, and only needing 95% of that to jump, you need (41.64*5%) 39.5 seconds from 0% to the required capacitor to jump out. And that's just the Titan's recharge. It's not including Mindflood Boosters, which effects capacitor as well. Or other capital ships with capital energy transfers, especially a mothership with energy transfers, which get a large optimal range bonus and are also immune to ewar, putting the mothership in little-to-no harm itself to save a temporarily immobile Titan with it's cap drained.

Kreul Intentions Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:33:00 - [118] Thread cleaned of trolling. If you can not post something constructive and stay on topic, do not post. Should you wish to discuss alliances that have or do not have a Titan, CAOD is just a few forums down. Thank you. forum rules \| [email protected]

LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:33:00 - [119] What we have here is bunch of armchair generals. Get hit by 20 cap neut. carriers and your cap will stay at 0. -------- I tanked D2 capital fleet and all I got was truncated Erebus mail.
Alesia Sonata Amarr Yakuza Corp THE R0NIN	Posted - 2007.05.10 19:35:00 - [120] Edited by: Alesia Sonata on 10/05/2007 19:36:03 Brilliant post. I can see a lot of effort has gone in to this, and I'm impressed. He's spot on too, they are overpowered. Just because something is ludicrously expensive (which it isn't, if you consider the fact they're built by the huge alliances) does not mean it should be nigh unstoppable and deal insane damage too. Personally I think the concept of the Titan as a whole should be changed. It should be a massive, powerful support ship. Which it is. It shouldn't also have the ability to wipe out a fleet. I didn't even know about that remote doomsday thing; that is utterly stupid. I can't even believe the developers would be insane enough to think that's balanced. Edit: And in response to the post above: Sure, that's technically possible. It's not going to happen. That's now 20 carriers not supporting the fleet, and 20 ships all in range of your fleet and your Titan. In fleet conditions, such as slideshow mode, the attacking fleet will have trouble even responding in time. It also provides a great opportunity for the owners of said Titan to remotely detonate another few, or jump in a dread fleet to destroy 20 carriers.

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