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Petition to remove WTZ to stations.

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LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.17 22:59:00 - [1] I'm sick and tierd of people just docking when they see a threat in local, either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. Gates I can understand but insta docking is just stupid stupid stupid... Its not gonna happen, you warp and instantly dock at a large structure is it?
jimmyjam Turbulent	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:02:00 - [2] Not going to happend,but then again i just wait for the target to undock or i just move on.
Petrothian Tong Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:13:00 - [3] I would say nerf local... much more fun... =P -Siggi- ""PvP" isn't only direct person to person combat, it can be very indirect. Selling an item on the market which somebody buys from you is resulting in another guy not getting a sale." Oveur
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Petrothian Tong I would say nerf local... much more fun... =P It could be nasty also but yeah I'd love it but would result in to much whining like in the past when they tryed it
Leikeze Mrotserif coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.05.17 23:38:00 - [5] DONT NERF LOCAL!! The pirats will kill my barge and take my t2 crystals!
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Vaapad Shinobis Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:10:00 - [6] Originally by: LittleTerror I'm sick and tierd of people just docking when they see a threat in local, either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. Gates I can understand but insta docking is just stupid stupid stupid... Its not gonna happen, you warp and instantly dock at a large structure is it? I almost killed myself laughing when I remebered a certain person and his then corpmates sitting within dock range of station in Aedald..and him in a cap ship too..
jilahed	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:14:00 - [7] Originally by: LittleTerror Originally by: Petrothian Tong I would say nerf local... much more fun... =P It could be nasty also but yeah I'd love it but would result in to much whining like in the past when they tryed it Yeah, umm like the whining of "pirates" like you after the wtz patch? Don't get me wrong wtz is totally annoying and it caters to the carebear, but its done and won't be undone again. But how can you throw the good old adapt or die at a carebear-whiner when you make such posts? It's just not healthy for you little epeen, you know?
Mr Jay Armoured Assassins	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Leikeze Mrotserif DONT NERF LOCAL!! The pirats will kill my barge and take my t2 crystals! What he said This thread is now about cake.
Ja'kar Templar Securities and Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:19:00 - [9] Edited by: Ja''kar on 18/05/2007 00:18:47 I almost killed myself laughing when I remebered a certain person and his then corpmates sitting within dock range of station in Aedald..and him in a cap ship too.. and ur point is.... What has sitting on a station got to do with wto and insta dock, and before u shout lag, there was better ways to deal with lag, removing Bm's from game was a start, but wto was yet another blow to the 'hardcore' and 'player driven' enviorment that was eve online, into this wow in space clone... OK carbears, trolls and arsekissers ur time to shine is here Ur just falling into eve the online corporation, eve the game as I know is long goneà Yes gets my vote...
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.18 00:49:00 - [10] Edited by: LittleTerror on 18/05/2007 00:47:55 Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Originally by: LittleTerror I'm sick and tierd of people just docking when they see a threat in local, either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. Gates I can understand but insta docking is just stupid stupid stupid... Its not gonna happen, you warp and instantly dock at a large structure is it? I almost killed myself laughing when I remebered a certain person and his then corpmates sitting within dock range of station in Aedald..and him in a cap ship too.. I almost needed a doctor when I saw your corp/ALLIANCE name. hahahah.......
Jacob Castillo Caldari Copperhead Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:11:00 - [11] People would just make Instadock bookmarks like before. It wouldn't help much to remove WTZ.
Ja'kar Templar Securities and Holdings	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:27:00 - [12] People would just make Instadock bookmarks like before. It wouldn't help much to remove WTZ. Just simply not let BM's be used around gates/stations
Raelosk Minmatar Continuum Rift	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:34:00 - [13] What's the point in putting a BM on a station anyway? They show up on over view no matter how far away you are from them. Unless you take stations off overview . . . that just seems silly to me. I just think every one needs to stop whining...period. Carebear and pirate alike. WTZ is here to stay, I'm afraid. Maybe the OP needs to move on to a new system/tactic if her potential marks are anticipating her appearance in Local? If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo. -- Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune
Khel'tar	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:40:00 - [14] Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's change eve because you don't like something. -- Acura, the best stats. Pity it had to be caldari. Gallente 4tw.
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.18 01:56:00 - [15] Edited by: LittleTerror on 18/05/2007 01:57:11 Originally by: Khel'tar Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's change eve because you don't like something. The point is simple, gates are for traveling, but it use to be 15km unless you had a bookmark and if you did you contributed to the destruction of the server, So it got changed into warp to 0, it use to be random, but i donno i guess carebears always get there way and stamp their feet the hardest. Now its warp to 0 to every object yay !!! listen, we have adapted and we are sick of adapting, maybe you should not be so dumb, we don't just camp gates we try, oh god we TRY to belt hunt but it always ends in failure 90% of the time. I don't have time to fly 60 jumps to get one frigate kill these days, I'm fast as hell in finding people and I know instantly where they went, they goto the station or ***** log off and I'm sick of it. So just shut you trap and learn how to pvp and see how * it is /edit its so stupid arguing with people, I guess we will now put not 2 but 4 smartbombing ships on a gate and more frieghters will get ganked in high sec and more people cry and we are now WoW GG maybe you should go play that game then?
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:02:00 - [16] Adapt. Sanctions, embargoes and blockades- discuss PVP with ISK!
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Vaapad Shinobis Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:04:00 - [17] Originally by: LittleTerror Edited by: LittleTerror on 18/05/2007 00:55:45[/edit /edit oh btw I have never flow a cap ship, I don't even have the skills in cap ships, so what are you talking about? Are you talking about how your entire alliance was totaly ripped apart by INFOD? Are you still so bitter... Just drop it, you were 100% face raped, now go back and hide in your station the pirates might find you. Face-raped by INFOD..hmm..let me see...Pirate Coalition..no longer around MH...INFOD war..they moved out whereas we are still there...and must admit..yep..compared to your guys efficiency against us...around the quarter mark..Infod was just below the half..
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:04:00 - [18] Originally by: Jimer Lins Adapt. Have done, next?
Raelosk Minmatar Continuum Rift	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:07:00 - [19] Edited by: Raelosk on 18/05/2007 02:10:00 Even if there was no WTZ, what would keep them from warping to a station and docking as soon as you entered local? I don't think there would be that huge of a difference, unless you were able to get to the station before them perhaps. The thing is people docking and logging off as soon as a threat enters local, and WTZ is not the cause or reason they do it. So, the main topic of the thread is to remove WTZ, and my point is: It wouldn't make a difference. People would still log out or dock as soon as you entered the system anyway. Edit for grammar issues If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo. -- Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:14:00 - [20] Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Originally by: LittleTerror Edited by: LittleTerror on 18/05/2007 00:55:45[/edit /edit oh btw I have never flow a cap ship, I don't even have the skills in cap ships, so what are you talking about? Are you talking about how your entire alliance was totaly ripped apart by INFOD? Are you still so bitter... Just drop it, you were 100% face raped, now go back and hide in your station the pirates might find you. Face-raped by INFOD..hmm..let me see...Pirate Coalition..no longer around MH...INFOD war..they moved out whereas we are still there...and must admit..yep..compared to your guys efficiency against us...around the quarter mark..Infod was just below the half.. Pirate coalition never entered your stinking space for any serious ammount of time. We just camped a few gates and killed a few of you maybe? I don't know tbh or care, we had a good time in our final days toying with you!! You should pop around some time, I know its far but safe instant passage back home for free you can't go wrong.
doctorstupid2 Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:42:00 - [21] Warp to zero was a bad fix to the problem (bookmarks) in my opinion. They should have made 'warp to within 15km' mean WITHIN 15km, i.e. you land somewhere at random inside a 15km sphere of your target. Makes bookmarks useless and keeps travels times for fast and slow ships in check in one move. Moving freighters around 0.0 becomes a little extra tedious and dangerous, but hey, keeps everyone on their toes.
JoeT Amarr Short Attention Span Nex Eternus	Posted - 2007.05.18 02:57:00 - [22] Originally by: Mr Jay Originally by: Leikeze Mrotserif DONT NERF LOCAL!! The pirats will kill my barge and take my t2 crystals! What he said i agree
Zedrik Cayne Gallente Vendetta Incorporated	Posted - 2007.05.18 04:03:00 - [23] Warp to zero was a good solution for us being clever monkeys. Killing the server with bookmarks. Now that everyone has a good insta set (its not perfect, plenty of gall stations you don't actually end up in instadock range, but darn close) so you can setup a bump right there (i've got most of the warp-to points into my local haunts bookmarked for this purpose). Now if we made warp to 0 a little looser, muahhhahaha. I remember back when one of the revelations patches went out, local wasn't working at all. that was some exciting/terrifying time. Who was in local? Wartargets? Regular Targets? It was a scan fest filled with death as folks sneaked around trying to rat and mine and playing hide and seek. (did he just leave the system..he's not on scans..someone look next door...OMGWTF where did that blob pop Its a frigate swarm!) Then they fixed it and it was back to same old same old. It will make teamwork absolutely imperative if you don't plan on getting ganked. Which may or may not be a good thing. It will certainly make for some hell rides in low-sec for a few hours. Nerf Local..Kill a carebear :) -- A legitimate businessman interested in unilateral re-appropriation of goods and salvage.
Lead Pipe Gallente	Posted - 2007.05.18 04:28:00 - [24] I personally like wtz. I always found it odd how we had mastered the art of light-speed travel, but couldn't get any closer than 15km! If my spaceship is so pathetic that its margin of error is 15 KM, then I think it would be time to get a new ship or go to work for NASA. _________________________________________ Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a little while. Set a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life!
murder one Gallente Death of Virtue Vigilance Infinitas	Posted - 2007.05.18 04:38:00 - [25] Nerfing local would be huge. For both Pirate and non-Pirate alike. Because I said so...
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Veto. Academy Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.18 06:27:00 - [26] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 18/05/2007 06:26:03 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 18/05/2007 06:24:59 Originally by: Lead Pipe I personally like wtz. I always found it odd how we had mastered the art of light-speed travel, but couldn't get any closer than 15km! If my spaceship is so pathetic that its margin of error is 15 KM, then I think it would be time to get a new ship or go to work for NASA. What he said. Leave it be. "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Johnny Gurkha Infestation.	Posted - 2007.05.18 06:52:00 - [27] Originally by: murder one Nerfing local would be huge. For both Pirate and non-Pirate alike. ....and for the short amount of time it didn't work it was sooooooooooo much fun. Then they fixed it. Bastards.
Khel'tar	Posted - 2007.05.18 07:28:00 - [28] Edited by: Khel''tar on 18/05/2007 07:27:11 Originally by: LittleTerror So just shut you trap and learn how to pvp and see how *** it is /edit its so stupid arguing with people Yeah, I have no idea about pvping. I don't do that at all. I just hide in high sec and don't leave ever. Hang on, I actually pvp quite a bit. Yeah, I have trouble finding people to kill. Unlike you however I don't feel the need to WHINE about it. One thing I'm sick of is people that feel that eve needs to change to suit their failings. -- Acura, the best stats. Pity it had to be caldari. Gallente 4tw.
Gojyu	Posted - 2007.05.18 07:40:00 - [29] Because ccp probably don't want every single station in a system completely camped by pirates. Just a thought. Now, I might be a noob, but as far as I can tell if they made you warp 15km out from a station, 4 pirates could just sit there all day ganking anything and everything that warped in without a care in the world. Have I made a mistake somewhere or is that pretty much the scenario you're trying to get?
Atlanton Marcus Caldari Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.18 08:13:00 - [30] As a previous poster stated, disabling the warp to zero ability would just make stations a pirate camp fest. Kills would really be too easy. However, nerfing the local pilot list would have a huge impact on the game. If all we had was a pilot in system number, then recon would become even more important and exciting. Detecting gate camps would require careful route planning, watching the number of pod kills, and directional scanning. While anti-pirate players may say this will defeat the fun for non-pvp players, people who say this are completely missing the point of EVE and low security space. If people want to play against NPC pirates, mine, and trade all without other player interference, then they can stay in high security status and not join any player corporations. In my opinion, Eve was created with the adrenaline rush from possible loss in mind. The combat system is interesting, of course, but I would say that the major draw of pvp is from the excitement of knowing that you have a large portion of your game time spent depending on your tank holding up. Therefore, I think bringing more of the risk into the game through a anonymous local list will make flying through low security space just a little more intense and fun, of course.
IHurricane Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.05.18 08:31:00 - [31] The day where one of the rev patches came out and the local did not work for a couple of hours, was the best time I have ever had in EVE. I was in 0.0 around one of bob's major hub systems and it was terrifying not to know how many people there where in local and yet it was extremly exiting. So nerf local! --------------------------------------------- There was never a genius, without a tincture of madness - Aristotle
Calarn Infinitus Odium	Posted - 2007.05.18 10:35:00 - [32] Quote: Face-raped by INFOD..hmm..let me see...Pirate Coalition..no longer around MH...INFOD war..they moved out whereas we are still there...and must admit..yep..compared to your guys efficiency against us...around the quarter mark..Infod was just below the half..
Celestal	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:38:00 - [33] just teach the ratters to use ravens , 6 launchers , 1 tractor beam , 1 cloak when nasty boys enter system , if not under rat attack simply cloak ( of course you didnt stay exactly on warp in spot ) , if under rat attack then warp to ss and cloak . wait for nasty boy to leave system then continue ratting
Kasshim Omega Strike Force	Posted - 2007.05.18 11:40:00 - [34] Like what other peeps have said, it's either adapt or leave. WTZ was put in place to lessen the lag caused by billions of bookmarks first and carebear requests second. PvP'ers can't have their way all the time. The game must have some balance.
MiliasColds	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:23:00 - [35] Ok i see huge amounts of people proclaiming the power of local, and delaring that something needs to be done about it. Then there is an equally large group clammoring for nothing to be done, for that would surely lead to their death. so here is a simple and easy to employ solution that should make everyone happier: When you jump into a system you do not actually appear in the local channel until you come off of the gatecloak. this will either happen in 30 seconds, or whenever you move. a perfectly good reason for this is that you have not come fully into phase withthe new system yet, and therefor your shortrange comm systems are not functioning properly. this should give the pirats enough time to find targets. it should also allow the miners and such a chance to escape, given that the pirate can't get an exact location before he comes off gatecloak. as well you still know if there are war targets in system and so on and so forth.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.18 12:50:00 - [36] do you know the reason that WTZ came in in the first place? only part of the reason was to silence whining carebears. the main reason was lag. have u any idea how much lag BM's caused? if they remove WTZ to stations then ppl will just make insta BM's again and bring back the lag. not that the lag ever went but it did improve a little DE
Dr Slice kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:02:00 - [37] Edited by: Dr Slice on 18/05/2007 13:00:47 Single shard server (such as tranq.) will always have lag issues. The more players that subscribe to it, the bigger the hole you dig. If CCP truly wanted to fix lag issues, they would stop digging, if you know what I mean. Edit: Also, if you have to start changing game mechanics to fix lag, because hardware changes is not enough, you know you've got problems.
Azirapheal Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.05.18 13:22:00 - [38] Originally by: Lead Pipe I personally like wtz. I always found it odd how we had mastered the art of light-speed travel, but couldn't get any closer than 15km! If my spaceship is so pathetic that its margin of error is 15 KM, then I think it would be time to get a new ship or go to work for NASA. i have to disagree vehemently. you are stopping an insane mass that WAS travelling beyond the speed of light. within 15km is a blessing. WE couldnt do it within .5AU Yarrr sig nerf - that picture was way too big. Please keep it under 24000 bytes. Thanks, Hango Hango touched me in the night
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.05.18 14:09:00 - [39] I support nerfing local. I think that there should not even be an indication of the number of pilots in system. If you want to know the number of pilots in system, you should have to use a scanner. There should be active and passive scanners. Active scanners give your position away to any passive scanners. Passive scanners are more vague in terms of their results. Probes should also be divided into active and passive. Anytime you chat in local should give away your position. If you fire weapons, it gives away your position. It would turn the game into the equivalent of submarine warfare. It might be VERY possible for you to get a first shot on someone (passive scan, passive targeting) before they even know you're there. This would make stealth bombers very, very dangerous. At a default, anyone within 200km (visual range) should show up (look, a star destroyer!). Past that, you should have to use scanners and probes. This would also put limits on large blobs - because it would be difficult to keep the presence of a large force of ships secret. A couple of ships may have an advantage over a larger force, because they have a better chance of remaining undetected, and getting in a first shot. This would also give a lot of value to the alpha strike. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Aille Pluthrak Caldari Booze and Hookers	Posted - 2007.05.18 15:42:00 - [40] Originally by: Khel'tar Yeah, that's a great idea. Let's change eve because you don't like something. Why not. If enough people ***** about it CCP will change it. ---------------------- Boom goes the ship! Squish goes the pilot!
SirDregann IV Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2007.05.18 16:53:00 - [41] Originally by: Petrothian Tong I would say nerf local... much more fun... =P Convert Local Chat into Constellation chat, noones safe!
Vladimir Norkoff The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.18 17:31:00 - [42] Nerfing local would definitely be a great choice.. As far as WTZ, a possible solution to fix both it AND bookmarks is simply make all stations and gates have a big 15km warp bubble around them that forces you to stop at the edge (rather than the center)..
Xori Ruscuv Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.18 18:44:00 - [43] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/05/2007 18:42:25 Originally by: Petrothian Tong I would say nerf local... much more fun... =P QF mofoin' T! A mod hijacked my sig, but I ruined it :( /wrists
Belenkas	Posted - 2007.05.18 20:24:00 - [44] To the OP: stop whining and go find somebody who wants to fight, instead of killing those haulers. Stop being a carebear yourself and go have PvP instead of PvE(easy kill). lowsec is empty already, remove wtz or local without giving some major boost to lowsec and you leave only strong corps/alliances who have interest in the area to stay there. Meaning you would basically whine why lowsec is empty then. Why there are no easy kills anymore, except those battleships flying around who can gather another 10 corp/alliance mates in seconds. I am bored of flying around searching for any fight but most(respect to those who dont) of piwats really run away as soon as any ship equal to their class shows up in overview.
xbreaka Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.18 20:47:00 - [45] Originally by: DarkElf do you know the reason that WTZ came in in the first place? only part of the reason was to silence whining carebears. the main reason was lag. have u any idea how much lag BM's caused? if they remove WTZ to stations then ppl will just make insta BM's again and bring back the lag. not that the lag ever went but it did improve a little DE Ill have to disagree with my corp mate on this one, 2 years ago when there was still bookmarks, still belts in jita, and all the agents in rens it was alot less laggy than it is now.
Father Weebles North Face Force Anarchy Empire	Posted - 2007.05.18 20:53:00 - [46] Boohoo, I could say the same thing about 0.0 POS's. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=465085
Southern Kros LOW SEC MINING	Posted - 2007.05.18 21:05:00 - [47] Another pirate who wants nice easy kills. Go back and join Ginger he gets lots of easy kills. NOT SIGNED. ----------------------------------------- Just a forum alt for a 58mil SP carebear character. Hey, its safer this way.
Xori Ruscuv Veto.	Posted - 2007.05.18 22:57:00 - [48] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/05/2007 23:00:22 Originally by: xbreaka Ill have to disagree with my corp mate on this one, 2 years ago when there was still bookmarks, still belts in jita, and all the agents in rens it was alot less laggy than it is now. There was around 1/3 the people online, too... at most. Warp to zero was implemented to allow the devs to get rid of the tens of thousands of bookmark copies that were clogging their databases. They did it for that reason - they talked about this publicly. Quote: Another pirate who wants nice easy kills. Go back and join Ginger he gets lots of easy kills. NOT SIGNED. Sure, brother. Why not? You want easy money without risk. We want to create that risk without having to chase you across the galaxy. WE ALL want what we want. CCP puts the game somewhere in the middle. Carebears don't realise how hard it can be to be a pirate. And truly, some pirates don't realise how un-profitable carebearing can really be. The grass is always greener, man! It's all good! A mod hijacked my sig, but I ruined it :( /wrists
Tellenta White-Noise	Posted - 2007.05.19 00:51:00 - [49] havent read the rest of the replies, but... ahem, remember bookmarks? station bookmarks were the easiest to make, and not an exploit. also more lag will follow from the massive accumilation of bookmarks once again. But i do agree station huging is truely annoying, especially when they have equal numbers and could put up a good fight... but they wont. I accept it as one of the annoying parts of eve. Much less annoying when i find myself in need of performing the task though.
Arii Smith Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.05.19 00:57:00 - [50] People seem to think the game was different before WTZ, it was functionally exactly the same except you had to waste a LOT of time making or getting BM's. I mean, now we have a button for warp to zero. Before we had a bookmark.
Jane Vladmir Gallente The Prancing Unicorn Club Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2007.05.19 06:44:00 - [51] I'm with you on this one. Please boost solo piracy, it's hard enough winning a 1v1 fight, why should it be near impossilbe to find victims without gate camping?
Arekhon Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2007.05.19 10:04:00 - [52] I'm for nerfing local proud member of [BEES] my thoughts and ideas represent your corp
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.19 11:03:00 - [53] Originally by: Arii Smith People seem to think the game was different before WTZ, it was functionally exactly the same except you had to waste a LOT of time making or getting BM's. I mean, now we have a button for warp to zero. Before we had a bookmark. lol so true. soooo many ppl had instas anyway before from gates to gates. i could agree with removing WTZ to station if they said BM's couldn't be created there in a way. But, what about ppl who want to make sniper spots etc it's not really right to stop them just so ppl can get a kill on the station. i do miss following targets to stations tho and popping them while they were on the chase for the docking ring. DE
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2007.05.19 11:04:00 - [54] Originally by: Raelosk What's the point in putting a BM on a station anyway? They show up on over view no matter how far away you are from them. Unless you take stations off overview . . . that just seems silly to me. he meant making instas, rather than just bookmarking the location. getting rid of em was teh reson WTZ was implemented in the first place.
ry ry StateCorp	Posted - 2007.05.19 11:08:00 - [55] Originally by: DarkElf lol so true. soooo many ppl had instas anyway before from gates to gates. you pretty much had to. although now i don't need instas i find myself making a whole lot less bookmarks in general anyway. long gone are the days when i had a massive collection of BMS - scanspots for every single gate, mid safes, deep safes and slightly dodgy pre-patch off grid super safes. the game is actually a whole lot better for it too.
Natalia Trade Amarr Trading Company Inc	Posted - 2007.05.19 11:15:00 - [56] ROFLMFAO Awwe the poor Pirates are mad because smart people wont let them blow them up, how sad.
Segmentor Hunters Agency Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.05.19 12:01:00 - [57] Daamn, i was away at the time local didn't work... Judging by other ppl's impreesions of it, it must have been great... I say make local work like every other chat. Show the number of ppl in channel only when something is said in local, and never disclose who actually is in system unless they have said something. Maang that would be fun...
Antraxx Caldari Deviance Inc	Posted - 2007.05.19 13:15:00 - [58] Think the best suggestion so far has been to convert Local into Constellation. Was a lot of fun when local dissapeared for a while thats for sure.. But at least using Constellation would let people see who was in the area,and would if anything give Alliances a greater warning of hostiles entering the area.. Would keep everyone on their toes a little more.And for those saying "Oooh look-Pirates want their way",It goes both ways...Those hunting us have an equal footing..There's very little difference between piracy and any corp//alliance operating NBSI-Just a different reason given for blowing the crap out of ppl-The end result for the target is the same. Hell-At least if the pirate ransoms you have a chance at life. Meh...Getting kinda off track now... I'll just STFU .. But yeah-Change Local! ---------- ---------- Deviance Inc. is recruiting!-Eve mail me :) Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.19 14:14:00 - [59] Originally by: LittleTerror I'm sick and tierd of people just docking when they see a threat in local, either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. Gates I can understand but insta docking is just stupid stupid stupid... Its not gonna happen, you warp and instantly dock at a large structure is it? I think local should be alterd, however, remove warp to 0 for stations? Aweful idea. That would just lead to a whole new bookmark problem, and signal the return of instas. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.19 16:12:00 - [60] I don't mind that people can get away from me but I don't like being seen as soon as I enter the system. Its frustrating as hell, its too damn easy for people to run, I know a change to local would make gate camping extremly dangerous but then I wouldn't be gate camping as much. I really miss flying around belts etc in a ship capable of tanking sentrys and chasing people, now they can get away 98% of the time by instant docking as soon as they see me.
ZuN3 kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.19 23:09:00 - [61] Edited by: ZuN3 on 20/05/2007 12:23:08 Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: LittleTerror I'm sick and tierd of people just docking when they see a threat in local, either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. Gates I can understand but insta docking is just stupid stupid stupid... Its not gonna happen, you warp and instantly dock at a large structure is it? I think local should be alterd, however, remove warp to 0 for stations? Aweful idea. That would just lead to a whole new bookmark problem, and signal the return of instas. -Karl Except, it wouldn't, if you'd read the suggestions.
Requiescat	Posted - 2007.05.20 14:25:00 - [62] Edited by: Requiescat on 20/05/2007 14:24:39 Originally by: LittleTerror either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. ORRRR... let us use dictors in low sec. Oh please. Oh please. Oh please, let me have my l33t bubble in .4! Edit: Dictoring in low sec would have a lot of additional benefits too, like putting a damper on the invulnerability of pirate moms in low sec, etc. Maybe it's worth looking into? Just make it a criminally flagging activity, or something. --=-- I turned off "show corp/alliance" because, to be frank, I'm ashamed of them. They'll be turned back on when I'm somewhere more suitable for someone of my talents.
Ja'kar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.05.20 23:34:00 - [63] ORRRR... let us use dictors in low sec. What he said
Ginger Magician Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2007.05.21 01:30:00 - [64] There are systems around with no stations. Some are even busy traffic routes. Maybe try those. At the end of the day all combat comes down to gates.Belt fights are becoming rarer and rarer these days. Snowy are recruiting.Join channel '0CTOBERSNOW' ingame (zero not letter) Buying a NYX-mail me inga
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.21 04:55:00 - [65] Originally by: Ginger Magician There are systems around with no stations. Some are even busy traffic routes. Maybe try those. At the end of the day all combat comes down to gates.Belt fights are becoming rarer and rarer these days. How would you know? Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
DarkElf Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.05.21 12:38:00 - [66] Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Ginger Magician There are systems around with no stations. Some are even busy traffic routes. Maybe try those. At the end of the day all combat comes down to gates.Belt fights are becoming rarer and rarer these days. How would you know? i knew you wouldn't be able to resist. DE
Vladimir Norkoff The Black Rabbits	Posted - 2007.05.21 22:06:00 - [67] It's almost like all Ginger has to do is snap his fingers and he can make Karl bark..
Nox Solaris	Posted - 2007.05.22 07:17:00 - [68] IMO... ships should not be able to target anything while they're within station radius. There's nothing more annoying that seeing a carrier/MS sitting an inch outside the undock port assigning fighters to some inty or other ship. Yes, killing the fighters gets expensive, but completely hollow victories. You should be able to freely shoot at anything that's inside station radius (since they'll just dock again anyway), but they should not have any ability to respond unless they move outside of docking radius.
qantua gnartians Gallente Phoenix Wing The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.22 10:21:00 - [69] Originally by: Atlanton Marcus As a previous poster stated, disabling the warp to zero ability would just make stations a pirate camp fest. Kills would really be too easy. However, nerfing the local pilot list would have a huge impact on the game. If all we had was a pilot in system number, then recon would become even more important and exciting. Detecting gate camps would require careful route planning, watching the number of pod kills, and directional scanning. No Local would only serve the gank everything segment of Eve, and be a nuisance to anyone with a huge list of blues or a policy of hunting specific targets instead of just drooling over killboard stats. Replacing local with a number of pilots in system is going to hurt the social/political side of eve pretty much turning eve into something more like counter strike in space. Seriously just stop hugging the same entry point from high to low sec, and sit in jump range of a gate between 2 low sec system and you wonÆt ever have to see another unstabbed hauler escape because of warp to zero, eve PvP in eve tend to be more about outsmarting your opponent, more then anything else. And no removing local wont give you easy solo kills in order to do that Low Sec needs to be populated and if death is certain the targets wont have isk to go into low sec after a few weeks time, thatÆs the main problem with solo piracy is that the only thing you meet in low sec belts are other pirates, because every true carebear either safely in high sec, or hiding behind a gatecamp in a 0.0 constellation they rent from someone who do know how to fight. I hereby represents myself and noone but myself, please dont make my corp or aliance responsible for my foolish ramblings.
Eben Rochelle Gallente The Plebians	Posted - 2007.05.22 10:39:00 - [70] C.I.H.Y.S? ------------------------------------------------
Trishan Minmatar Green Men Incorporated The Threshold	Posted - 2007.05.22 10:54:00 - [71] Originally by: Dr Slice Edited by: Dr Slice on 18/05/2007 13:00:47 Single shard server (such as tranq.) will always have lag issues. The more players that subscribe to it, the bigger the hole you dig. If CCP truly wanted to fix lag issues, they would stop digging, if you know what I mean. If you had another shard with 100 systems, will their Jita equivalent lag be solved? No. Will TQ Jita lag be solved? No. Will 700 players per system be solved? No. The real problem is that they have an architecture that is past it's scaling limits. The question is whether they consider that the player limit won't hurt its subscriber number, whether they think they can outpace node load with hardware improvements in a cost effective way, or whether they are working on a fully distributed infiniband cluster. Now, if that ambulatory projecty thing manages to take people walking into stations onto a different node, that has the potential to alleviate the lag that docked people produce (if any..) So just fix the architecture and all our lag problems are gone :)
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.22 19:21:00 - [72] Edited by: Karlemgne on 22/05/2007 19:19:33 Originally by: qantua gnartians No Local would only serve the gank everything segment of Eve, and be a nuisance to anyone with a huge list of blues or a policy of hunting specific targets instead of just drooling over killboard stats. Replacing local with a number of pilots in system is going to hurt the social/political side of eve pretty much turning eve into something more like counter strike in space. Seriously just stop hugging the same entry point from high to low sec, and sit in jump range of a gate between 2 low sec system and you wonÆt ever have to see another unstabbed hauler escape because of warp to zero, eve PvP in eve tend to be more about outsmarting your opponent, more then anything else. And no removing local wont give you easy solo kills in order to do that Low Sec needs to be populated and if death is certain the targets wont have isk to go into low sec after a few weeks time, thatÆs the main problem with solo piracy is that the only thing you meet in low sec belts are other pirates, because every true carebear either safely in high sec, or hiding behind a gatecamp in a 0.0 constellation they rent from someone who do know how to fight. I disagree with you completely. If they turned local into something like alliance chat, where the particular player didn't show up unless they spoke, it would go a long way towards "fixing" low security space. Its by know means a perfect solution, to be sure. I like seeing who is local from time to time, because it allows me to socialize with people I know, but who are no longer (or never were) in my corp or alliance. That being said, I think removing the names of the pilots/number of pilots in local has a number of strong pluses. First, it makes recons and covert ops important. Currently, these ships really only have a niche role to play, and they don't even do it well (considering everyone not outlawed, or not friendly to the pilot flees low-sec local when you jump in.) It also means that the number of opportunistic pirate kills will go down. You know the type? You're traveling 40 jumps, oh look 6 people in local, lets see if I can find them real quick. This makes the carebears life easier, actually, which in turn, means that if a pirate is patient enough, and uses his scanner, he will once again find a good number of targets at belts. Then consider CCP's plan to remove belts from the overview, and making people use probes, just to find belts. Great idea, imo, ONLY if you nerf local. Otherwise the people in belts get even more time to recognize a non-friendly in local is there, and leave. Further reducing piracy to simple gate camps ::boring::. You seem to complain that already pirates really only find other pirates in belts these days, but go on to advocate a system that assures that only pirates will be in low-sec belts. I am not, under any circumstances, telling you that the "nerf local" solution is sufficient enough to "fix" the low sec problem. Essentially, you need to "nerf" local and then do a number of other things that increases the rewards of low-sec empire. For instance, put ALL level 3 and 4 agents in low sec. Put all stations with manufacturing/research slots in low-sec. And increase the value of belt rats (I've always been perplexed how someone ratting in a .4 takes 10x the risk of a mission runner but receives 1/100th the reward.) Alternatively, you just leave eve like it is and don't try to fix it. Most of us will still play, but I'm alway a proponent of MMOs getting better as they age, not stagnating. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:22:00 - [73] Originally by: Requiescat Edited by: Requiescat on 20/05/2007 14:24:39 Originally by: LittleTerror either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. ORRRR... let us use dictors in low sec. Oh please. Oh please. Oh please, let me have my l33t bubble in .4! Edit: Dictoring in low sec would have a lot of additional benefits too, like putting a damper on the invulnerability of pirate moms in low sec, etc. Maybe it's worth looking into? Just make it a criminally flagging activity, or something. It rears it's ugly head again....and again and again.. WT0 = Lag reduction measure. Dictors /bubbles in LowSec = 2 of 3 things probably: 1. The few who come stops coming. 2. All LowSec adjacent to 0.0 has Alliance move in and wtpwn everyone. You come to the boards and complain about blobbing, and how piracy is dead. 3. You come back to the boards and complain that LowSec has even LESS people than before. Gee, I wonder why...nErF EmPiRe!!1'
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.22 20:30:00 - [74] Originally by: DarkElf Originally by: Karlemgne Originally by: Ginger Magician There are systems around with no stations. Some are even busy traffic routes. Maybe try those. At the end of the day all combat comes down to gates.Belt fights are becoming rarer and rarer these days. How would you know? i knew you wouldn't be able to resist. DE Haha... sorry, I had too. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.22 22:11:00 - [75] Originally by: Soporo Remove local favors the agressor. Period. Local as it is now favors the anti-pirate, the blobber, and the carebear. It would seem that we have a bit of an antinomy on our hands then. Both ways of constructing local chat in low-sec empire break the game. What to do? Honestly, you'll probably foam at the mouth and call me a self-interested bastard, but I'll speak my mind anyway. Pirate already have a terrible burdon on them. To pirate sucessfully, you have to have a lot of skill points, be able to fly a ship capable of tanking sentry gun, and aren't allowed to bring friends when you get blobed at a gate. I think it would benefit everyone to "nerf" local (perhaps just replace it with constillation chat.) Combine that with other insentives to come to low sec, such as increased value on belt rats, level 3-4 agents soley existing in low sec, and relocation of all stations with manufacturing/research slots you'll make low sec an incredibly viberant and exciting place to be. Quote: Someone whos mining or ratting cant be(and wont be) hitting the scanner every 20 seconds for 4 hours. "Can't?" I beg to differ. When I'm sitting in a safespot in low-sec, sometimes for hours waiting for a juicy target, I use the scanner every 30 seconds or so, just to be sure nobody is trying to probe me. If you want to mine where it's a-okay to sit afk at a belt, blast veld in high-sec. Otherwise, to quote the bears at the pirates "adapt or die." Quote: You however, as the agressor can choose when to go to a system and spend a whole 30-60 seconds seconds looking around and scanning then bam hit the guy mining or whatever. It's glaringly obvious. I know a guy who can scan you out with a probe in less than 24 seconds. We definately should nerf cov-ops and recons too. Seriously, low-sec isn't meant to be without appreciable risk. USE YOUR SCANNER and you'll be out of the belt in the 30-60 seconds (only someone very good with the scanner can do this by-the-by) you have before the pirate gets you. Quote: The end result would be there will be NO PVE activity in any LowSec system that has no Local. You are absolutely 100% wrong, seeing as how I catch people from time to time who are completely oblivious to me in local. Further, if you up the bounties/drops in low-sec plenty of people will rat there. Quote: I dont see how people can call for dictors and remove Local and not see 2 inches past their nose to what the EFFECT will be. Actually, I think these people are capable of projecting into the future and seeing what they believe the effect will be--a more fun and exciting low sec. After all, that's why they are suggesting what they suggest, just like you are suggesting what you think will happen if low-sec empire is changed. Quote: It would mean the gdamn DEATH of any potential LowSec might ever have. More and more you seem like a carebear who is railing at the thought of a little bit more challenging enviornment for you to make your isk. Quote: I dont mean to sound inflamatory here, but you have to realize, if you make it even more dangerous PEOPLE WILL SAY SCREW IT and Empire hug or 0.0. I dont know how to make it any clearer. I guess we just disagree completely. In many ways I think what's been suggested will make life in some systems much safer. But, hey, you are entitled to your opinion too. -Karlemgne Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
LittleTerror Caldari kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.05.22 22:35:00 - [76] Originally by: qantua gnartians Originally by: Atlanton Marcus As a previous poster stated, disabling the warp to zero ability would just make stations a pirate camp fest. Kills would really be too easy. However, nerfing the local pilot list would have a huge impact on the game. If all we had was a pilot in system number, then recon would become even more important and exciting. Detecting gate camps would require careful route planning, watching the number of pod kills, and directional scanning. No Local would only serve the gank everything segment of Eve, and be a nuisance to anyone with a huge list of blues or a policy of hunting specific targets instead of just drooling over killboard stats. Replacing local with a number of pilots in system is going to hurt the social/political side of eve pretty much turning eve into something more like counter strike in space. Seriously just stop hugging the same entry point from high to low sec, and sit in jump range of a gate between 2 low sec system and you wonÆt ever have to see another unstabbed hauler escape because of warp to zero, eve PvP in eve tend to be more about outsmarting your opponent, more then anything else. And no removing local wont give you easy solo kills in order to do that Low Sec needs to be populated and if death is certain the targets wont have isk to go into low sec after a few weeks time, thatÆs the main problem with solo piracy is that the only thing you meet in low sec belts are other pirates, because every true carebear either safely in high sec, or hiding behind a gatecamp in a 0.0 constellation they rent from someone who do know how to fight. oh god boohoo, will people like ever get it? Its just a game its not real lol... your poor internet space ships went boom sorry if I'm talking like a tit but too many people seem to be totaly out there like eve is all there is, get a life.
Peim Ei ASSASSIN SYNDICATE Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2007.05.23 00:40:00 - [77] I like the idea of passive and active... it could be implemented thus: THere is a toggle in you HUD for active and passive comms mode. When active... you receive immediate local updates. However, it also makes your icon right-clickable with a "warp to nearest celestial beacon' option. i.e. anyone in local could right click your icon and warp to the belt, moon, planet etc that was closest to you at whatever range they chose. It would also make you appear in local with immediate effect to anybody regardless of whether they were in active or passive mode. Also, when in active mode, ship agility would be reduced. When passive... you can see all people in local who are in active mode (and thus can also find them fast), however other passive pilots are hidden. Now before people say this nerfs cov ops think again. Cov ops would still be required to confirm ship types and genearal system status before warping the gang into a trap. A smart carebear would have a non carebear in active mode to call out local changes. The local window could then get an options menu (similar to the overview) for allowing certain ppl, corps, alliances etc..to always see you in local. This would greatly reduce the ease at which ppl can solo mine/rat in low sec and 0.0. It would require a team effort to do it succesfully, which as we know ..would lead to more combat due to team mechanics not always being tip top.
Apollyon X FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.23 00:43:00 - [78] Hmmm, no. If you are that desperate for kills that you have to change the game so you can score millions of easy kills on non combatants maybe you should change your strategies up or shoot something that will shoot back. Eve is damn near perfect the way it is so just deal with it and stop whining im tired of millions of whiners complaining about every little thing. CCP just has to get rid of the lag otherwise they are doing a damn good job. Goodbye.
Peim Ei ASSASSIN SYNDICATE Strength in Numbers.	Posted - 2007.05.23 01:01:00 - [79] Edited by: Peim Ei on 23/05/2007 01:00:30 Originally by: Apollyon X Hmmm, no. If you are that desperate for kills that you have to change the game so you can score millions of easy kills on non combatants maybe you should change your strategies up or shoot something that will shoot back. Eve is damn near perfect the way it is so just deal with it and stop whining im tired of millions of whiners complaining about every little thing. CCP just has to get rid of the lag otherwise they are doing a damn good job. Goodbye. First of all, I am in no way desparate for kills. I get plenty. Secondly, in order for something like eve to succeed it needs to evolve. Believing that complicated systems are near perfect leads to their obsolescence. Thirdly, the system I proposed is far from some 'win button' against carebears. In fact it really has very little to do with defenceless targets. Any carebear could still operate quite efficiently with it in place. What it would allow is for an increased sense of tension and an interesting game mechanic. Akin to submarine combat as said the former poster who mentioned active/passive tactics. Lastly, I didnt notice any whining in my post, though some have before me. Regardless, if you are so tired of it, why are you reading this thread. I was reading it because I believe in constructive debate about the game, not just a "CCP knows all" attitude.
Celestal	Posted - 2007.05.23 02:34:00 - [80] You will never see bubbles in lo sec. that statement will be true to supercaps in the not too distant future.
Sasha Saucer	Posted - 2007.05.23 03:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Ginger Magician There are systems around with no stations. Some are even busy traffic routes. Maybe try those. At the end of the day all combat comes down to gates.Belt fights are becoming rarer and rarer these days. orly?
Dakath	Posted - 2007.05.23 04:02:00 - [82] Petition DENIED! NOT SIGNED!
Apollyon X FIRMA	Posted - 2007.05.23 04:07:00 - [83] Originally by: Peim Ei Edited by: Peim Ei on 23/05/2007 01:00:30 Originally by: Apollyon X Hmmm, no. If you are that desperate for kills that you have to change the game so you can score millions of easy kills on non combatants maybe you should change your strategies up or shoot something that will shoot back. Eve is damn near perfect the way it is so just deal with it and stop whining im tired of millions of whiners complaining about every little thing. CCP just has to get rid of the lag otherwise they are doing a damn good job. Goodbye. First of all, I am in no way desparate for kills. I get plenty. Secondly, in order for something like eve to succeed it needs to evolve. Believing that complicated systems are near perfect leads to their obsolescence. Thirdly, the system I proposed is far from some 'win button' against carebears. In fact it really has very little to do with defenceless targets. Any carebear could still operate quite efficiently with it in place. What it would allow is for an increased sense of tension and an interesting game mechanic. Akin to submarine combat as said the former poster who mentioned active/passive tactics. Lastly, I didnt notice any whining in my post, though some have before me. Regardless, if you are so tired of it, why are you reading this thread. I was reading it because I believe in constructive debate about the game, not just a "CCP knows all" attitude. I was talkin to the OP not you. Hes just mad cause he cant sit on the stations anymore and instapop badgers and shuttles all day long like he used to do in the old days so he thinks its time for the game to change to fit his playstyle so he comes and complains and doesnt give any real solutions hence 'whining'.
Jeronica Minmatar Incarnation of Evil	Posted - 2007.05.23 06:02:00 - [84] Have an option to join local chat or not. If your a paranoid freak, or just like to chat join it. Pirates who like to fly recon can remain off local chat, and no one will even know they were there. Or pirates can leave it too, giving them and the others another edge. (Are there any people not in local? Im not sure, there are 20 ships on scan but might be at POS) Recons ftw :D
qantua gnartians Gallente Phoenix Wing The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.23 15:40:00 - [85] Edited by: qantua gnartians on 23/05/2007 15:38:40 Originally by: Karlemgne I disagree with you completely. If they turned local into something like alliance chat, where the particular player didn't show up unless they spoke, it would go a long way towards "fixing" low security space. You know the type? You're traveling 40 jumps, oh look 6 people in local, lets see if I can find them real quick. This makes the carebears life easier, actually, which in turn, means that if a pirate is patient enough, and uses his scanner, he will once again find a good number of targets at belts. And that will cause a killing spree chasing the carebears back out of the belts. Originally by: Karlemgne Then consider CCP's plan to remove belts from the overview, and making people use probes, just to find belts. Great idea, imo, ONLY if you nerf local. Otherwise the people in belts get even more time to recognize a non-friendly in local is there, and leave. Further reducing piracy to simple gate camps ::boring::. You seem to complain that already pirates really only find other pirates in belts these days, but go on to advocate a system that assures that only pirates will be in low-sec belts. Alternatively, you just leave eve like it is and don't try to fix it. Most of us will still play, but I'm alway a proponent of MMOs getting better as they age, not stagnating. -Karl But changing a social tool that does intel to something really complicated that only does intel wry? Theres noone in the god forsaken belts at the moment because it's just dont make any sort of sense to be there profit wise, noobs tend to learn that fast, everyone in low sec is in some form of deadspace people even mine inside mission deadspaces, as it is, you said it yourself it will nerf the pirates the same as the carebears doing nothing to change the balance, and that goes for all the messing with local in the end it will acomplish nothing but removing a social part of eve. I cant see wry people want local nerfed if they think it wont tip the balance of things, so in the case that it benefits both pirates and carebears and thus reinstating status que within short time, i dont see removing the only true intercorp/aliance chat system in eve, as a real improvement. Low sec need fixing and that means reevaluating the balance right now the carebears have no real reason to take low sec seriously it's more dangerous then 0.0 and only slightly more profitable then empire, and that not local or the whole run and hide mentality of eve is the problem with low sec in my opinion. I hereby represents myself and noone but myself, please dont make my corp or aliance responsible for my foolish ramblings.
Soporo Caldari	Posted - 2007.05.23 19:26:00 - [86] Edited by: Soporo on 23/05/2007 19:39:07 [quote]Honestly, you'll probably foam at the mouth and call me a self-interested bastard, but I'll speak my mind anyway. Pirate already have a terrible burdon on them. Lol, I'll have you know, I never foamed (in public) before in my life. I never said pirating was easy. You want hard though? Try LowSec mining or 0.0 ninja mining. Quote: I think it would benefit everyone to "nerf" local (perhaps just replace it with constillation chat.) Combine that with other insentives to come to low sec, such as increased value on belt rats, level 3-4 agents soley existing in low sec, and relocation of all stations with manufacturing/research slots you'll make low sec an incredibly viberant and exciting place to be. Look man, the point I am trying to make is if you made these changes, all that would happen is people would quit in DROVES. Your smart enough to see what THAT would end up meaning. You can't force people to utterly change their playstyle and expect them to hang around. I'm telling you, removing Local would make people like me never step foot in there no matter what the rewards, unless of couse I just wanted to screw around with my Punisher alt or something. Forcing will not work. Quote: Quote: Someone whos mining or ratting cant be(and wont be) hitting the scanner every 20 seconds for 4 hours. Quote: "Can't?" I beg to differ. When I'm sitting in a safespot in low-sec, sometimes for hours waiting for a juicy target, I use the scanner every 30 seconds or so, just to be sure nobody is trying to probe me. If you want to mine where it's a-okay to sit afk at a belt, blast veld in high-sec. Otherwise, to quote the bears at the pirates "adapt or die." We did adapt, we said it wasnt worth it and its not, so we dont bother. This means we stopped thrwoing ISK down the drain in LowSec. If you FORCED lvl 3-4's and removed Local, people would adapt by cancelling accounts. What you WANT is a vibrant/active LowSec, as do we all. This measure wouldnt achieve that. It would run people off, at BEST it would create more Empire hugging. Quote: railing at the thought of a little bit more challenging enviornment for you Listen, I'm no pirate, but I pvp with Alliance some or with Corp as needed. I also mine, rat, and market whoor in Emp and 0.0. I even messed around with Exploration. I do almost everything EVE offers, but I still consider myself a... moderate carebear. No I dont need more challenege, as I said before, I've been there done that. I get my alt and trash around LowSec from time to time, sometimes I will fit up a Scorp with my main when my wallet is right, or armor tank my Raven for kicks and go look for trouble. I put a volley into Selene fr chrissakes, risked about 200 mil in ship and mods to stay a tad longer just because... I could. I bet I have been in more and larger fights as a casual Alliance soldier than some prats. None of that crap scares me, bores me maybe. I'm not boasting here, I dont even consider myself a pvp'er. The biggest reason I want LowSec to become better is it's the LAST bastion of small gang warfare, barring some 0.0 suicide ops. (I know guys who get a bunch of AF's and go deep as they can raising hell, expecting to die) You guys got to get it through your skulls that a lot of people who disagree with popular LowSec idea like dictors and bubbles and no Local have been around and seen as much as yall have. The termS carebear (and griefer) are used wayy to commonly to mean a damn thing anymore. Let me put it to you like this, (try to be as objective as you can) Would YOU or your friends in an industrial corp mine in a Low system with no Local, that is probably gate camped and dictored? Or a better Q would be: How did you feel when CCP nerfed the WarDec thing? What would you do if they boosted gate guns and Concord in Low? A lot would quit...
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.24 05:06:00 - [87] Originally by: qantua gnartians Edited by: qantua gnartians on 23/05/2007 15:38:40 Originally by: Karlemgne I disagree with you completely. If they turned local into something like alliance chat, where the particular player didn't show up unless they spoke, it would go a long way towards "fixing" low security space. You know the type? You're traveling 40 jumps, oh look 6 people in local, lets see if I can find them real quick. This makes the carebears life easier, actually, which in turn, means that if a pirate is patient enough, and uses his scanner, he will once again find a good number of targets at belts. And that will cause a killing spree chasing the carebears back out of the belts. Originally by: Karlemgne Then consider CCP's plan to remove belts from the overview, and making people use probes, just to find belts. Great idea, imo, ONLY if you nerf local. Otherwise the people in belts get even more time to recognize a non-friendly in local is there, and leave. Further reducing piracy to simple gate camps ::boring::. You seem to complain that already pirates really only find other pirates in belts these days, but go on to advocate a system that assures that only pirates will be in low-sec belts. Alternatively, you just leave eve like it is and don't try to fix it. Most of us will still play, but I'm alway a proponent of MMOs getting better as they age, not stagnating. -Karl But changing a social tool that does intel to something really complicated that only does intel wry? Theres noone in the god forsaken belts at the moment because it's just dont make any sort of sense to be there profit wise, noobs tend to learn that fast, everyone in low sec is in some form of deadspace people even mine inside mission deadspaces, as it is, you said it yourself it will nerf the pirates the same as the carebears doing nothing to change the balance, and that goes for all the messing with local in the end it will acomplish nothing but removing a social part of eve. I cant see wry people want local nerfed if they think it wont tip the balance of things, so in the case that it benefits both pirates and carebears and thus reinstating status que within short time, i dont see removing the only true intercorp/aliance chat system in eve, as a real improvement. Low sec need fixing and that means reevaluating the balance right now the carebears have no real reason to take low sec seriously it's more dangerous then 0.0 and only slightly more profitable then empire, and that not local or the whole run and hide mentality of eve is the problem with low sec in my opinion. Meh, a couple things I'll say here. Again, if the constitution of solar systems is changed in such a way, as the game developers have expressed interest in doing, where you actually have to use probes to find belts, and nothing is done about local, belt piracy is more than gimped. It becomes comepletely non-existent. So, either the new change can't happen, some hitherto un-thought of balancing mechanism has to be implimented, local must be changed, or we can just say goodbye to the unrestricted pvp that makes this game great. Having said that, I'm very sympathetic to the loss of the ability to socialize. Its a fracking MMO at the end of the day... I'm leaning more towards a re-orginization of the chat system. Perhaps constillation chat, perhaps something more confined, but more ambiguous than local. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Krysta Swap	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:44:00 - [88] To be honest, I'm new to the game... and even I can see that Local is kind of dumb. Without a scanner, without any knowledge of who these people are... I can see everyone on a local channel. It's kind of a farce. I mean, most PVP games do not allow you to see unaffiliated players within a zone, whether by channel list, /who command, "where" commands... hell, whatever. Yet through local I can see all. Even if they are cloaked??!?!?!?! Makes no sense to me. The Warp to Zero, I have to admit, I find convenient. However I also see how it would kill PvP. I'm only a few days old... and I've broken through many pirate blockades already. Unless lag is on their side... I'm unstoppable at a gate or dock. It's sad, but I don't know how solo pirates will do it. The only way I see for real PvP in this game is Alliance Wars and the occasional gank. And if a new player can tell this is the way it is... I feel bad for the veterans. It's a pity CCP hasn't listened to you... but with WoW what it is, and everyone wanting to be WoW (SWG anyone?), not much we can do.
Krysta Gemme	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:44:00 - [89] Edited by: Krysta Gemme on 24/05/2007 10:43:17 doublepost
aquontium Gallente Fourth Circle	Posted - 2007.05.24 10:55:00 - [90] LittleTerror, thought you left SNOWY because you wanted 'real piracy'. Go back to snowy and get back on the gates, there seems to be an offer from Ginger . Then again, all Ginger is doing lately is dock/undock in his Moros.
Caleb Ayrania Gallente TarNec	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:13:00 - [91] Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Sure, brother. Why not? You want easy money without risk. We want to create that risk without having to chase you across the galaxy. WE ALL want what we want. CCP puts the game somewhere in the middle. Carebears don't realise how hard it can be to be a pirate. And truly, some pirates don't realise how un-profitable carebearing can really be. But hey, sometimes its the difficulty and the pressures that make it fun. But the grass is always greener, man! It's all good! Now here XORI totally nails the problem.. The core problem in EVE is the dif between pirates and carebears. There is really ONE BIG SIMPLE SOLUTION to all these issues. BALANCE the game to make it more worth carebearing economically, and more FUN to be a pirate. As things are now you can easily have better earnings as a pirate.. This is just plain WRONG. Pirating and warring should be done for FUN and politics, not because its a great income. If you changed these things you would see happy players everywhere. Carebears would work their assets and take part in the secure political gaming, and pirates and fighters in general would be the agents to redistribute this wealth. This is the way things work in RL and it should be exactly the same in EVE. But then pirates and fighters would become "poor".. Hell yeah do you think soldiers pay for their own missiles in the real world? Fighting motivation should not be money, thats should be up to a political situation.. So corps would go to war over real issues, like assets and territoty, not because they just feel like it. The price of war should not be some concord payment, but an actual loss of assets. Thus you would have to make sure your war will result in some REAL victory, by damaging the opponents assets or granting you control of wealth generating territories.. FIX ECONOMY FIXES THE GAMEPLAY..
schmarty pants	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:38:00 - [92] Originally by: LittleTerror I'm sick and just stupid stupid stupid... Sux to be you This game isn't for you now, time to move on!
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.24 11:51:00 - [93] Originally by: LittleTerror I'm sick and tierd of people just docking when they see a threat in local, either nerf local or stop people from warping to 0 meters with stations and then at the same time stop people making bookmarks near stations. Gates I can understand but insta docking is just stupid stupid stupid... Its not gonna happen, you warp and instantly dock at a large structure is it? Someone couldnt think about any other way of preventing people from docking? Since apparently name of system is no-sec one, the hint is quite easy, interdictor? To extend the hint, baits? Cov ops to jump right on them in belt? They see your corp, and dock. Well, if they see your neutral friend that wont even show on scanner they wont insta-dock, im sure noone would leave npc spawn/roid or anything because of one un-affilated pilot in local. Moreover, if you notice, station docking radius is about 20% wider then station radius itself. Thus its techically possible to warp within 'Towing Mechanism' range since its wider then stn radius, and then it gets your ship into stn. ---
Acrea	Posted - 2007.05.24 12:31:00 - [94] Not the real topic, but I am all for changing local to be less.. revealing as well, it would add considerable depth to low sec space. It might also lessen lag.. Imagine 200 people in system, 20 new people jump into the system... suddenly a load of local channel lists have to be updated with memember names for all the relevant new people. Fear is the mind-killer.
Soulweaver	Posted - 2007.05.24 14:30:00 - [95] Edited by: Soulweaver on 24/05/2007 14:35:41 NO,Leave the Jump to 0 alone,Leave the insta docking alone,And leave Local alone also. its my Second account's only defense against these Ticks called Pirates ,my second account is a miner only so no combat skills at all. To behonest the only soulution to the Pirate carebear problem is have 2 servers,1 for No PvP and one for all out PVP only, I bet they would get more subscribers if they had 2 types of servers. If this isnt really possable why not keep pvp at the lowest sec areas only. Not sure what the lowest is to behonest. I really would love to bring my hauler and my miner to 0.0 and below systems but because of these ticks called pirates im stuck in 0.5 and above.Plus i cant enjoy the systems below 0.5 and the other cool stuff i hear about cause of these pirates. I love this game alot its just these pathetic creatures called pirates that are keeping me and i bet alot of others from enjoying the full game. If it was up to me but ofcourse it isnt but if it was anytime a pirate attacked a unarmed ship like a freighter,barge,hauler or transport a pirate would get a visit from concord plus there pod killed and the sec. rateing lowerd to -10.0 each time. (can ya tell i extreamely despise pirates yet?) There is much more i want to say but the stuff i want to say would get me banned from the forums plus maybe even from the game. BTW,NOT SIGNED
Dotard	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:07:00 - [96] Originally by: Agent Li I support nerfing local. I think that there should not even be an indication of the number of pilots in system. If you want to know the number of pilots in system, you should have to use a scanner. There should be active and passive scanners. Active scanners give your position away to any passive scanners. Passive scanners are more vague in terms of their results. Probes should also be divided into active and passive. Anytime you chat in local should give away your position. If you fire weapons, it gives away your position. It would turn the game into the equivalent of submarine warfare. It might be VERY possible for you to get a first shot on someone (passive scan, passive targeting) before they even know you're there. This would make stealth bombers very, very dangerous. At a default, anyone within 200km (visual range) should show up (look, a star destroyer!). Past that, you should have to use scanners and probes. This would also put limits on large blobs - because it would be difficult to keep the presence of a large force of ships secret. A couple of ships may have an advantage over a larger force, because they have a better chance of remaining undetected, and getting in a first shot. This would also give a lot of value to the alpha strike. This is the answer!!! Ok, CCP, how much of a bribe do you need to implement this? I'm a rich person in RL, so name your price and let's negotiate. Seriously, does anyone see any problems with this suggestion?
Soulweaver	Posted - 2007.05.24 15:20:00 - [97] Edited by: Soulweaver on 24/05/2007 15:20:20 Like i said its fine just the way it is. This isnt a submarine game its a "Space" game. BTW,NOT SIGNED
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.24 18:17:00 - [98] Whoever says that removing local will decrease blobs is terribly wrong. - No local, means no ability to count enemy forces. Results in? 'Bring more ppl!!', results in even bigger formations that will sit even longer on each others gate/safespots/stations till their cov ops fleet will count each and every capital in system. Wont take very long with one 20 AU system, what about group of them with 4 gates in system and the system itself being 80 AU? - You cant see enemy count, go there solo? Who wants to get trapped into 'surprise camp'? Will vastly increase number of cloakers in 0.0. More of less any T2 capable pilot will fly recons 90% of the time, just to avoid gank squards and blobs that will grow even bigger since you cant predict whos in next system. - Camping, oh, since you cant see how much hostiles in the system, why not blob/camp/bubble it to no end. I wont even mention the amount of problems it will cause to industrial players that will rather mine safely in hi-sec then sit in Hulk with 2-3 defenders and guess when the 10 man BS squard will jump em. Such move can be only done if they gonna put constellation chat active, so you at least know whos in 2-4 jump radius from you. Apart from that, removing local will make people stay off low-sec for sure. And promote blobs to a new level in no-sec. And btw, if local isnt a tool, why then we have +/-/* indications in local? It was alot better when you needed to actually check the pilot`s info, now you can even scroll down and see. ---
Pierre Dumonte Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:05:00 - [99] simple solution to the kill/dont kill local question: stealth fitting probably a mid slot should work, and should use some cap when it's turned on, but then you dont show up in local, but you cant chat either. or maybe a rig ie 'rigged for silent running' warp to 0 on stations can be blocked with well placed bubbles, so i dont see the point in messing with that. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- He who shoots first gets to ask the questions
Raelosk Minmatar Continuum Rift	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:12:00 - [100] Some very good points have been made on both sides. I think the most important thing is: It is stupid that as soon as you enter a system, with no scanning, you can see EVERY person in the system. You can even look at their portraits and read their bios. Hell even in WoW, you had to actually SEE the person to know they were in the area ... either see them say something in the local chat channels, or see their avatar. So, it makes perfect sense to do just one thing to local: Remove the list of who's in the system. Leave it like it is otherwise. That way you'll only know they're there if they say something. Seems like a pretty easy and simple solution, I think. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo. -- Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune Do
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:19:00 - [101] Originally by: Soulweaver Edited by: Soulweaver on 24/05/2007 14:46:34 NO,Leave the Jump to 0 alone,Leave the insta docking alone,And leave Local alone also. its my Second account's only defense against these Ticks called Pirates ,my second account is a miner only so no combat skills at all. To behonest the only soulution to the Pirate carebear problem is have 2 servers,1 for No PvP and one for all out PVP only, I bet they would get more subscribers if they had 2 types of servers. If this isnt really possable why not keep pvp at the lowest sec areas only. Not sure what the lowest is to behonest. I really would love to bring my hauler and my miner to 0.4 and below systems but because of these ticks called pirates im stuck in 0.5 and above.Plus i cant enjoy the systems below 0.5 and the other cool stuff i hear about cause of these pirates. I love this game alot its just these pathetic creatures called pirates that are keeping me and i bet alot of others from enjoying the full game. If it was up to me but ofcourse it isnt but if it was anytime a pirate attacked a unarmed ship like a freighter,barge,Indy or transport a pirate would get a visit from concord plus there pod killed and the sec. rateing lowerd to -10.0 each time. (can ya tell i extreamely despise pirates yet?) There is much more i want to say but the stuff i want to say would get me banned from the forums plus maybe even from the game. BTW,NOT SIGNED Oh, I see. Yes, we need low-sec to be just as safe as empire for people who choose to not train any combat skills. Give me a break. Learn to use a scanner, train some basic tanking skills, and stop complaining that you have no combat skills, that's what YOU chose to do. That'd be like me complaining that there should be a station where I can refine at 100% efficency, because, after all, I've trained no refining skills. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:33:00 - [102] Originally by: Raelosk Some very good points have been made on both sides. I think the most important thing is: It is stupid that as soon as you enter a system, with no scanning, you can see EVERY person in the system. You can even look at their portraits and read their bios. Hell even in WoW, you had to actually SEE the person to know they were in the area ... either see them say something in the local chat channels, or see their avatar. So, it makes perfect sense to do just one thing to local: Remove the list of who's in the system. Leave it like it is otherwise. That way you'll only know they're there if they say something. Seems like a pretty easy and simple solution, I think. Please dont compare EVE and WoW, way too different. EVE is alot different. You can easily order 60 man blob to keep silent in local, if you notice, most of fights go in complete silence apart from gf/gg at the end. ---
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.24 19:33:00 - [103] Originally by: Caleb Ayrania Originally by: Xori Ruscuv Sure, brother. Why not? You want easy money without risk. We want to create that risk without having to chase you across the galaxy. WE ALL want what we want. CCP puts the game somewhere in the middle. Carebears don't realise how hard it can be to be a pirate. And truly, some pirates don't realise how un-profitable carebearing can really be. But hey, sometimes its the difficulty and the pressures that make it fun. But the grass is always greener, man! It's all good! Now here XORI totally nails the problem.. The core problem in EVE is the dif between pirates and carebears. There is really ONE BIG SIMPLE SOLUTION to all these issues. BALANCE the game to make it more worth carebearing economically, and more FUN to be a pirate. As things are now you can easily have better earnings as a pirate.. This is just plain WRONG. Pirating and warring should be done for FUN and politics, not because its a great income. If you changed these things you would see happy players everywhere. Carebears would work their assets and take part in the secure political gaming, and pirates and fighters in general would be the agents to redistribute this wealth. This is the way things work in RL and it should be exactly the same in EVE. But then pirates and fighters would become "poor".. Hell yeah do you think soldiers pay for their own missiles in the real world? Fighting motivation should not be money, thats should be up to a political situation.. So corps would go to war over real issues, like assets and territoty, not because they just feel like it. The price of war should not be some concord payment, but an actual loss of assets. Thus you would have to make sure your war will result in some REAL victory, by damaging the opponents assets or granting you control of wealth generating territories.. FIX ECONOMY FIXES THE GAMEPLAY.. Who are you to tell those of us whose sole income is from pvp, that we shouldn't make our money pvping. That's what is fun about being a pirate, I never have to mine, shoot belt rats, build stuff, whatever. -Karl Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Raelosk Minmatar Continuum Rift	Posted - 2007.05.24 20:05:00 - [104] Originally by: n0thing Originally by: Raelosk Some very good points have been made on both sides. I think the most important thing is: It is stupid that as soon as you enter a system, with no scanning, you can see EVERY person in the system. You can even look at their portraits and read their bios. Hell even in WoW, you had to actually SEE the person to know they were in the area ... either see them say something in the local chat channels, or see their avatar. So, it makes perfect sense to do just one thing to local: Remove the list of who's in the system. Leave it like it is otherwise. That way you'll only know they're there if they say something. Seems like a pretty easy and simple solution, I think. Please dont compare EVE and WoW, way too different. EVE is alot different. You can easily order 60 man blob to keep silent in local, if you notice, most of fights go in complete silence apart from gf/gg at the end. Please don't quote me, unless you're gonna bother reading what I wrote. I know the 2 games are way different, I've played both. The point of my whole post wasn't to express similarities between the 2 games, but to emphasize my point. The point is not whether or not they're talking, but if you take the list of people in the system out, then you won't know who's there unless they talk. As it stands, whether they talk or not, you can still see who's in the system. so, the blob of 60 doesn't speak, but I can still scroll through the list and see all 60 of them in local. Take the list out, and I wouldn't know they were there. If nothing within you stays rigid, outward things will disclose themselves. Moving, be like water. Still, be like a mirror. Respond like an echo. -- Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune Do
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.24 22:29:00 - [105] Yep, and thats where problem is, if you cant know how much enemys you got, you will only try and bring max amount of your forces possible, resulting in blobs. And yes, I read both of your posts fully. ---
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.05.25 00:35:00 - [106] they will get rid of local (or at least immediate mode local) when they get rid of static belts, and on that day scanning will be king for pirate and bear alike. Looking forward to it tbh
Soulweaver	Posted - 2007.05.25 01:23:00 - [107] Originally by: Doddy they will get rid of local (or at least immediate mode local) when they get rid of static belts, and on that day scanning will be king for pirate and bear alike. Looking forward to it tbh Hopefully it wont happen at all. If it does keep it in very low sec.
Soulweaver	Posted - 2007.05.25 03:58:00 - [108] I take it all back. Sorry Now that i had more time to think about this; Hmm would haveing no local make it a little more safe? i mean would it make it harder for people to find you? If so then maybe this could work. Just hope it dont require major scanner skills though.
n0thing Northern Intelligence Artificial Intelligence.	Posted - 2007.05.25 12:16:00 - [109] Originally by: Doddy they will get rid of local (or at least immediate mode local) when they get rid of static belts, and on that day scanning will be king for pirate and bear alike. Looking forward to it tbh Means starting players will have to work even more for the funds to get any competition with existing pvp pilots. Right now, NPCing, only needs combat skills, if it will need any kind of other exploration skills that are taking your character skill tree into other directions it will only slow down the combat skill catch-up since for newer players each day counts. ---
Karlemgne The Black Fleet Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:33:00 - [110] Originally by: n0thing Originally by: Doddy they will get rid of local (or at least immediate mode local) when they get rid of static belts, and on that day scanning will be king for pirate and bear alike. Looking forward to it tbh Means starting players will have to work even more for the funds to get any competition with existing pvp pilots. Right now, NPCing, only needs combat skills, if it will need any kind of other exploration skills that are taking your character skill tree into other directions it will only slow down the combat skill catch-up since for newer players each day counts. That's how MMOs work. Tbh, EVE is actually better than a whole lot of games because of the parity between high skill point and newer characters. What do I mean? Say 4 2 month olds catch a 2003 player in a frigate. Properly fitted, those 4 two month old players are going to pown' the 2003 player. Now imagine we're playing WoW or EQ2. Four level 20's go to take on a level 70... and then the level 70 wipes the entire group of 4, often without ever even being hit. -Scott Edited by: Ginger Magician on 16/03/2007 14:07:36 whereas those who constantly and deilberately exploit every possible aspect of the game mechanics get away scott free.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.05.25 14:41:00 - [111] In addition to my previous suggestion: Leave warp to zero - but make collision with a gate or a station cause damage. In fact, all bumping, collisions, should cause damage. You would have kamikaze intys... ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
qantua gnartians Gallente Phoenix Wing The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:29:00 - [112] Edited by: qantua gnartians on 25/05/2007 15:30:46 Originally by: Karlemgne Who are you to tell those of us whose sole income is from pvp, that we shouldn't make our money pvping. That's what is fun about being a pirate, I never have to mine, shoot belt rats, build stuff, whatever. -Karl The amoung of damage you have to deal in order to make enugh profit is probably 5:1 ie for every one isk you someone else looses 5 isk , that means that there needs to be a 5:1 carebear/pirate ratio in the belts, and they need to make good profits. you need the carebears, just like the industry needs you to create a demand. I still cant se wry removing would solve the problem of everyone running from a fight they arent likely to win, removing local and people would have to adapt to new ways of not dying. A lot of things in eve dont make sense if you look at it as a coherent space simulator in a certain way. Local is a pretty visble part of the eve gameplay experience, and have been for a werry long time, and it's far easyer to explain RP wise then the whole Sov warfare rules. thats really two different things, some whants to try complete stealth, and some just hate the fact that they cant get the kills they want, lets treat then differently. Eve is in its base a highly political multiplayer game not campain based or pure combat oriented, and complete stealth would take that away, i mean standings does matter in eve, but if we cant get charecter or corp names, but only a list of ships in space that would nerf war, where only selected pilots/corps are legit targets, if local goes, thats going to harm that playstyle severely. Edit damn forums keep eating my text. I hereby represents myself and noone but myself, please dont make my corp or aliance responsible for my foolish ramblings.
Rook Medina Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.05.25 15:50:00 - [113] Originally by: Agent Li I support nerfing local. I think that there should not even be an indication of the number of pilots in system. If you want to know the number of pilots in system, you should have to use a scanner. There should be active and passive scanners. Active scanners give your position away to any passive scanners. Passive scanners are more vague in terms of their results. Probes should also be divided into active and passive. Anytime you chat in local should give away your position. If you fire weapons, it gives away your position. It would turn the game into the equivalent of submarine warfare. It might be VERY possible for you to get a first shot on someone (passive scan, passive targeting) before they even know you're there. This would make stealth bombers very, very dangerous. At a default, anyone within 200km (visual range) should show up (look, a star destroyer!). Past that, you should have to use scanners and probes. This would also put limits on large blobs - because it would be difficult to keep the presence of a large force of ships secret. A couple of ships may have an advantage over a larger force, because they have a better chance of remaining undetected, and getting in a first shot. This would also give a lot of value to the alpha strike. I approve of this message. I would instantly turn for this set up. Hell, I'd go anti- for this. Signed. To the OP, not signed. Sorry.
Illsauros	Posted - 2007.05.25 18:41:00 - [114] I'm not a pirate, and I don't much like them, however I do see their side of the issue. On the other hand it's extremely annoying that gank fleets tend to flee as soon as you get together enough people to actually give them a fight. I propose that Local be completely removed, in addition there shouldn't even be a pilot count. You should get absolutely no information as to how many are in system. Want to find out what's there? Use some scanners and probes. This makes the pirates happy since they get to try and attack targets without people insta-leaving. At the same time it gives pirate hunters a chance since the pirates have less ways to realized they're in for a serious fight. In addition, an attack on a corp/alliance mate should allow you to fire on anyone in the aggressor corp/alliance within the same system without a security hit for the duration of the aggression timer.
Soulweaver	Posted - 2007.05.25 20:16:00 - [115] Edited by: Soulweaver on 25/05/2007 20:17:49 Edited by: Soulweaver on 25/05/2007 20:16:07 Originally by: Agent Li In addition to my previous suggestion: Leave warp to zero - but make collision with a gate or a station cause damage. In fact, all bumping, collisions, should cause damage. You would have kamikaze intys... Ahh i dont think so,if this was implmented,imagine warping,sometimes ya go straight thru Planets.this wold not be pretty. Plus this would be abused,people ramming etc. Another thing,ya know when ya undock and there is someone sitting there right in the path when ya undock? BAM! no thanks. No this wouldnt work. Please devs dont do this one. The collisions i mean.
T'ni Iommi	Posted - 2007.05.25 21:46:00 - [116] http://goonfleet.com/open_letter_to_CCP.html
Pierre Dumonte Mithril Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.05.28 15:46:00 - [117] Originally by: Illsauros I'm not a pirate, and I don't much like them, however I do see their side of the issue. On the other hand it's extremely annoying that gank fleets tend to flee as soon as you get together enough people to actually give them a fight. I propose that Local be completely removed, in addition there shouldn't even be a pilot count. You should get absolutely no information as to how many are in system. Want to find out what's there? Use some scanners and probes. This makes the pirates happy since they get to try and attack targets without people insta-leaving. At the same time it gives pirate hunters a chance since the pirates have less ways to realized they're in for a serious fight. In addition, an attack on a corp/alliance mate should allow you to fire on anyone in the aggressor corp/alliance within the same system without a security hit for the duration of the aggression timer. this would help all aspects of pvp imo. proper recon is the only way to be truly safe, and promotes teamwork. full 'fog of war' should only be used in 0.0 high sec should have full disclosure in local, as concord monitors all pilots entering or leaving. low sec should have pilot count, and names in local if they speak 0.0 no local info unless someone speaks. intel is gathered by scanning and exploring. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_- He who shoots first gets to ask the questions

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