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Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:03:00 - [271] Originally by: WhitePhantom Quote: 1) Why do we have a log of a dev logging on to the ISD chat a VERY short time after the incident in the battle? I think we all know that petitions do NOT make it to senior GM's in just a couple minutes. I question if these logs are even real. Quote: 2) Why have the statements by Dianabolic, which were never contradicted by BoB itself, regarding having preferential access to CCP personnel for in-game issues been ignored? That, to myself and many others, is the single biggest issue involved in these allegations. Please address this issue, even if its Dianabolic reporting and communicating in valid ways. Quote: 3) Will there ever be any action taken to counteract the common impression that "CCP = BoB"? Whether it is true or not, the impression is common and widespread. Only a certain group of people think this, and those people spammed the forums, so I question their integrty. By Bobsters own world they are fighting 20000 players. I saw people from all the alliances who add to this number in these threads, as well as people not related to them, like me. So by a very timit figure I would say that at least 20-30K players are very dissatisfied with CCPs position in these matters. Considering these people are active I would say they are about 50% of the long term players of this game, again being very generous with the opposition, I would also say that the Bobsters, alts and their allies who are posting that they are content with the situation in these forums represent less than half of this amount. What remains is either uninformed, unaffected or too new to care about the subject. Those that are discontent tend to talk to people, to post in other places and spread their positions to the potential client base of this company, most of whom will be turned away from the game. All that remains for CCP to finish this suicide is to start the mass banns. That will be interesting to watch... ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
dynamic lady	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:10:00 - [272] Originally by: Malloc Memrel Wow. I think I'll post this until I can find words. I cannot fathom how the above paragraphs ever made it out under an official capacity. Your response to the spamming of allegations of misconduct, brought about by your censoring of the initial complaint, brought about by your own poor customer service, is to accuse 4000 of your own players of sabotage? And furthermore, that your legal team will be looking into it? Kieron asked for constructive dialogue, so here's my advice: Threatening legal action against your own players would be the single most damaging thing you could do to your company at this juncture. Sure, the current allegations might have gotten you on Slashdot, Kotaku, and other "entertainment" news sites, but if you actually bring legal resources to bear on your playerbase, it will be everywhere. Gamasutra, GamePolitics, GameDev.net, basically anywhere and everywhere game developers hang out in cyberspace. At that point, win or lose, CCP will be an island, no one else will want to even touch you for fear of the stink of corruption rubbing off on them. It won't matter if said stink was real or fabricated, it will be there and it will linger. To my friends who work in the US branch of CCP: Get out NOW. I don't want your careers stunted by CCP's actions giving your future resume's an express route to the dustbin. I know some of you have worked hard to get here, and I know you're not involved with this mess, but the stink of corruption will permeate the entire company, soaking into you whether justified or not. As for CCP as a whole, well, I'll say you've earned a customer for life. Far from inspiring disgust and a desire to leave, as apparently many others have felt, I am instead filled with a sense of awe and see an educational opportunity here. If ever I want to know how not to handle a customer service issue, I can always log on to eve, see how CCP handles it, and do the opposite, confident that I will at least be doing something right by not handling things the way CCP is. Finally, to anyone leaving EVE- Might I reccomend WoW? another great post i'm gonna quote, obviously because it will get burried soon and whether or not that happened, I doubt CCP will take note of it anyways..
Darth Cornhole Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:10:00 - [273] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Those that are discontent tend to talk to people, to post in other places and spread their positions to the potential client base of this company, most of whom will be turned away from the game. All that remains for CCP to finish this suicide is to start the mass banns. That will be interesting to watch... Hmm mass bans. . . Will they pull a SWG and teleport us into space. . . Oh. . nvm. . .
Shar'Tuk TheHated	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:12:00 - [274] Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 30/05/2007 03:57:39 CCP owes us an apology. For them to criticize us for jumping to conclusions and getting all tinfoil and then doing the exact same thing themselves is pretty much the pinnacle of irony. This information was broken by a non-goon affiliated website first. Did you read the bolded part CCP guys? Other alliances were already posting threads on these forums about the incident BEFORE WE DID ANYTHING. All we did was force CCP to stop covering up the allegations (what did you have to hide anyway?). I guess we could have been nice and waited till the end of the weekend but this information was kinda sprung on us and we forgot to check our icelandic calenders before getting outraged. All I have to say is wow.. CCP didnt name names but you guys sure do sound like they are saying it was you. Getting kinda Defensive dont you think? If you guys are feeling so guilty maybe you should start with an apology to CCP and the EVE community. But I wont hold my breathe.
Nighlighted Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:14:00 - [275] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 30/05/2007 03:57:39 CCP owes us an apology. For them to criticize us for jumping to conclusions and getting all tinfoil and then doing the exact same thing themselves is pretty much the pinnacle of irony. This information was broken by a non-goon affiliated website first. Did you read the bolded part CCP guys? Other alliances were already posting threads on these forums about the incident BEFORE WE DID ANYTHING. All we did was force CCP to stop covering up the allegations (what did you have to hide anyway?). I guess we could have been nice and waited till the end of the weekend but this information was kinda sprung on us and we forgot to check our icelandic calenders before getting outraged. All I have to say is wow.. CCP didnt name names but you guys sure do sound like they are saying it was you. Getting kinda Defensive dont you think? If you guys are feeling so guilty maybe you should start with an apology to CCP and the EVE community. But I wont hold my breathe. Good, because anything short of a Litigation through either the US or EU courts will not bring any closer to this issue.
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:15:00 - [276] Originally by: Etho Demerzel Originally by: WhitePhantom Quote: 1) Why do we have a log of a dev logging on to the ISD chat a VERY short time after the incident in the battle? I think we all know that petitions do NOT make it to senior GM's in just a couple minutes. I question if these logs are even real. Quote: 2) Why have the statements by Dianabolic, which were never contradicted by BoB itself, regarding having preferential access to CCP personnel for in-game issues been ignored? That, to myself and many others, is the single biggest issue involved in these allegations. Please address this issue, even if its Dianabolic reporting and communicating in valid ways. Quote: 3) Will there ever be any action taken to counteract the common impression that "CCP = BoB"? Whether it is true or not, the impression is common and widespread. Only a certain group of people think this, and those people spammed the forums, so I question their integrty. By Bobsters own world they are fighting 20000 players. I saw people from all the alliances who add to this number in these threads, as well as people not related to them, like me. So by a very timit figure I would say that at least 20-30K players are very dissatisfied with CCPs position in these matters. Considering these people are active I would say they are about 50% of the long term players of this game, again being very generous with the opposition, I would also say that the Bobsters, alts and their allies who are posting that they are content with the situation in these forums represent less than half of this amount. What remains is either uninformed, unaffected or too new to care about the subject. Those that are discontent tend to talk to people, to post in other places and spread their positions to the potential client base of this company, most of whom will be turned away from the game. All that remains for CCP to finish this suicide is to start the mass banns. That will be interesting to watch... Wait, don't tell me you're the mittani's alt. lol.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:17:00 - [277] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley What do you have a 10 post per thread page minimum or something? Trying to compensate for hardly anyone buying in to this bs?
Laephis Brinn Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:17:00 - [278] So now it's stooping to thinly veiled threats against your players? Honestly, I thought CCP's "PR" department couldn't get any worse, but it seems every month you find new ways to drag it down even more. If you'd like to become the SCO of the MMORPG world, be my guest, we all know how much their business improved once they started the threats. Looking forward to finding a respectable company on which to spend my disposable income, college dropouts just don't cut it.
Etho Demerzel Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:17:00 - [279] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Originally by: Etho Demerzel They will never, ever, ever, sue anyone. By doing that they would invite the opposite too, and CCP is the wroger part here. A fraud case is not very difficult to be made against them. And if this happens, and a true auditing company starts to go through their files, what we had here would be peanuts... Your continuing threats make you look even funnier then before. Firstly if you feel threatened by me I should say that I am not scary. I am a nice guy, really. We can even discuss it over dinner if you are not a guy who likes to dress like female characters. Secondly, do you only know how to write ad hominem arguments and things like "good answer", "that is it." and similar very well thought comments? Differently from you I am not laughing you know. You are not amusing enough to be funny. And last, these are not threats. Threats would mean I have some power of making them true. For all that matters I am nothing. I can't change anything here. I can't make CCP do the right thing. And I certainyl can't bankrupt them. I am merely pointing that they are on a suicide path. A path that damages them and their player base. And this path is not only stupid as it is easily avoidable. Why do I care? Because I like the game and I still believe they can fix it. But I have many reasons to believe they won't unless they realize how stupidly they are acting. What unfiortunately seems to be well outside of their current capacity to understand. ===== "If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron...
Endarri al'Malik	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:17:00 - [280] Edited by: Endarri al''Malik on 30/05/2007 06:20:37 Well it sounds like no one at CCP was having a good time this weekend, and that's unfortunate - holidays are holidays, after all... Just to add my own two cents worth: I'm forced to agree with several of the other respondents in this thread on the nature of the tone and implications present in the official CCP response. There really wasn't any need for mudslinging back at the author(s) of the original 'open letter' or the 'Threadnought'. As has been stated earlier, doing so simply serves to cement in the minds of many that CCP isn't as unbiased as they claim. The primary point that I wish to address however, is once again, the notion of a 'conflict of interest' inherent within the very architecture of EVE. While I can appreciate, and to some degree, agree with the idea that one must play the game in order to understand it, and am less swayed by the conclusion that seems to be implied; playing the game necessarily means involvement in Player-based corporations. Why should that be the case? This issue becomes especially true within the context of the current 'Galactic War', within which virtually all of the major alliances are embroiled. Within such an openly polarized environment, with it's winner-take-all seriousness, the temptation to become swayed by one side or another becomes increasingly strong - and so does the temptation to assist in any way possible. If one within a corp posesses the power to swing the balance of power in some subtle - or overt - way, the result is a justifiable sense of outrage amongst the player community. CCP has stated that they are adamantly opposed to such favoratism within the game they've created, but can they say the same for each and every one of their employees? Clearly not. Volunteers, GMs, and yes, even devs can become entangled in the fates of the corps to which their characters are a part of - to deny otherwise is to cling to an unrealistic view of the world. The problem isn't how to punish those who are caught - or even how to ensure that CCP employees are being effectively monitored; the problem is systemic. The very act of allowing the kind of familiar interactions between players and CCP personel is the direct cause of so much of what is coming to pass on the forums and in-game. It is true that it is virtually impossible to stop CCP personel and EVE players from ever meeting or becoming friends, the whole 'msn issue' proves that beyond a doubt. What is possible however is to limit the kind of circumstances in which such a relationship can be used to the advantage of any player or group within EVE. The simplest way to accomplish this is to make it a matter of policy that CCP personel are fobidden - on pain of immediate termination - from ever joining in a player-controlled corp. The game is still perfectly playable from within NPC corporations, and all bugs associated with gameplay can be ironed out from there, but the opportunity to interact with large alliances - and the accompanying temptation to aid them, is minimized. The best way to ensure that problems developing from the conflicting Corporation/Employer loyalties present in such an immersive game as EVE, is to ensure that they don't arise in the first place. Endarri al'Malik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys

Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:21:00 - [281] Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley What do you have a 10 post per thread page minimum or something? Trying to compensate for hardly anyone buying in to this bs? Not really but it seems the goons have a 15 post minimum, so i would not be able to squeeze ten in at any rate anyway. I know it's hard to grasp that someone saw through your little plans and that you are the ones being held responsible for it. You should have thought of that before.
Biosman ClanKillers Dusk and Dawn	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:22:00 - [282] Quote: While itÆs somewhat understandable that the participation of CCP staff in EVE is being questioned once again, our answer must once more be that our involvement is vital to the development of EVE. Barring CCP employees from the game would effectively stop EVE in its tracks. EVE is such a complex application that it is impossible to understand it without participating, playing on the test server is not the full EVE experience, nor is it possible to replicate issues involving our server structure or large amounts of players using it. There is simply no way to develop a world as complex as this without experiencing it firsthand. You cannot develop it by proxy, evaluate fun through statistics, or make judgments without fully understanding how it grows and evolves, especially when nearly everything we create and place in EVE can be used by players in ways that were never anticipated. In order to do justice to our game and to meet your expectations, we must share your frustrations, joys, successes and failures. One cannot fully appreciate the investment of time and effort that players make without trying it one's self. Every employee at CCP should know what it is like to work themselves to exhaustion for something you, the EVE community, believe in and love, in game and out. At the same time, each and every CCP employee is expected to exercise their judgment while doing so and treat EVE, CCP and our customers with the respect they deserve. Nothing else is acceptable, not to you and certainly not to us. Complete and utter rubbish,you have a RESPONSIBILITY to us to remain the referee and police force of this wonderful game you have developed,and your job is to remain neutral while overlooking the Eve universe in an impartial way. It is because of this internal policy all the troubles that has happened,happened in the first place,such as the T20 incident,alleged favoritism and the hotline to God controversy. You owe the community an apology for bringing Eve to its present state and have no-one to blame but yourselves. Ask yourselves this,why has Eve dropped so low to the level of smack,namecalling,distrust,alleged misconduct? Because you have been caught out giving backhanders and leading capfleets and God knows what else.All in CCP name.The sad thing here is you havent learned a damn thing from it,you still maintain the "It's my game I'll do what I want if you don't like it leave" approach.We are not talking about 4 years ago,Eve has grown to multi alliance warfare where the stakes are high,and your infiltrations into the playerbase make it very unstable and lead to all sorts of "what if's" which have occured already. People every day from all sides,have hate filled scorn poured on them,and CCP is directly to blame for letting this "conflict of interests" continue to the detriment of all that has come to pass. The truth is truth,my gut feeling says it's not right,and you should reconsider your policy and work out other ways to integrate with the playerbase.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:24:00 - [283] I expected no more and no less. CCP can't afford to admit wrongdoing. Doing so could open themselves up to class action lawsuits both in the European Union and the United States. They simply could not survive if either of the trade commissions in those entities decided that fraud had been committed and thus revoked their ability to operate within their domains. As far as reading over the last blog, I notice several things. First in the Sharkbait issue. There seems to be dates missing from those petitions, why? The issue wasn't that he had entered and left, he's done that before to other corporations which I had found earlier after some research. What the accusation was is that the petition asking why he had by the CEO was closed without response, and removed apparently. Why wasn't this addressed? Another issue was that after having their petition closed they opened up a thread and it to was closed and removed. Now certainly the denial of service attack was not warranted, and was a bad decision. However they had attempted all other normal means of communication. The response by Eldo and others has been to mail us. Well as I pointed out in the other thread, you don't always mail us back. Roughly half of all mails reporting threads or issues that I've made, I have never received any communication back on. People are reaching the boiling point. I would not consider suing any member of Goonswarm for the 'threadnought'. I don't believe CCP would for the simple fact that doing so might air a lot of stuff they don't want to get out. This brings us to the other issues. Event Team Rigging and the firing of the ISD volunteer. The issues in both cases was not so much about the particular events themselves. It was about the underlying information that came out. The fact that certain members of BoB has had a special communication link with the development staff. This is a communication link that has been taunted by high level BoB diplomats and leaders. It has never been denied by BoB or CCP. The blog does not deny the existance of such. Therefore the conclusion is either Arkanon did not understand the real issue involved in these instances or he is fully aware and the lawyers have made sure he crafted a response which attempted to deflect but not answer the real issue. If you want to get into the meat of these two incidents. It is likely that at the time of the events misdoings that CCP did not have adequate controls in place and as such no real evidence exists. That's not the same as that it didn't occur. I do not believe that CCP management if it did occur where aware of the occurance, it is more likely it was done by other staff members without managements knowledge. In the incident of the bumping of the dread. I have seen no evidence supplied that actually supports that the dread was ever actually bumped. No screenshot has materialized. If the bumping was a major issue you would have expected a screenshot taken by someone to prove the bumping in case a petition was later raised if said dread was lost as a result. I do not believe that the dread was bumped due to the lack of evidence. As such I do believe the dismissal was probably wrong and should have been more carefully investigated before it occured. The volunteers actions since that time in violating NDAs of course makes it impossible that they should be employed in such a manner in the future by CCP. While the result is similar to what I expected after all even Ralp Koster said they couldn't admit fault and he's not involved in any way due to legal ramifications, I am hopeful that CCP will turn their eyes inward and will take the steps that are finally needed to clean up these situations and prevent future incidents. Cut any special links to any player alliances, not just BoB. If it is a link that is not available to all players, then it should not exist. Since you have not in any way published your irc chat channels, msn ids, etc, they should not be known to any. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Mister Spanky Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:26:00 - [284] Originally by: Shar'Tuk TheHated Originally by: Toffles Edited by: Toffles on 30/05/2007 03:57:39 CCP owes us an apology. For them to criticize us for jumping to conclusions and getting all tinfoil and then doing the exact same thing themselves is pretty much the pinnacle of irony. This information was broken by a non-goon affiliated website first. Did you read the bolded part CCP guys? Other alliances were already posting threads on these forums about the incident BEFORE WE DID ANYTHING. All we did was force CCP to stop covering up the allegations (what did you have to hide anyway?). I guess we could have been nice and waited till the end of the weekend but this information was kinda sprung on us and we forgot to check our icelandic calenders before getting outraged. All I have to say is wow.. CCP didnt name names but you guys sure do sound like they are saying it was you. Getting kinda Defensive dont you think? If you guys are feeling so guilty maybe you should start with an apology to CCP and the EVE community. But I wont hold my breathe. Who else do you suggest they could be talking about?
Master OlavPancrazio Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:27:00 - [285] Bienurdau Hywoaf Let's face it, you wouldn't be happy unless a fraps was given of the dreadnaught being bumped. If someone says a GM that has a history of being dumb, and or making bad decisions gets a petition about them bumping a dread, who are you to tell CCP they can't fire them.
Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:34:00 - [286] Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf I expected no more and no less. CCP can't afford to admit wrongdoing. Doing so could open themselves up to class action lawsuits both in the European Union and the United States. They simply could not survive if either of the trade commissions in those entities decided that fraud had been committed and thus revoked their ability to operate within their domains. This is something I've been wondering about. Maybe CCP sat down and weighed the options and decided they couldn't survive another t20. Perhaps this blog represents a business making the best decision for it's shareholders and not an impartial IA department revealing their findings. Then again maybe that's not the case and they just did an absolute crap job of investigation and PR.
Bienurdau Hywoaf Minmatar Matari Holo News Network	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:35:00 - [287] Originally by: Master OlavPancrazio Bienurdau Hywoaf Let's face it, you wouldn't be happy unless a fraps was given of the dreadnaught being bumped. If someone says a GM that has a history of being dumb, and or making bad decisions gets a petition about them bumping a dread, who are you to tell CCP they can't fire them. I'm just pointing out what is missing. It is possible he made other mistakes, but there is no evidence that he actually bumped the dreadnought. None has been produced by CCP, none has been produced by BoB. A petition is just that its a petition. However I surely hope they don't grant all petitions without some sort of investigation, a review of the facts involved. If they do grant all petitions without investigation then there is something far more wrong with the system than anyone suspects because I suspect there are fraudulent petitions filed probably daily. Idea: Treaties Idea: Jump Rigs
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:36:00 - [288] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 30/05/2007 06:37:49 Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf I expected no more and no less. CCP can't afford to admit wrongdoing. Doing so could open themselves up to class action lawsuits both in the European Union and the United States. They simply could not survive if either of the trade commissions in those entities decided that fraud had been committed and thus revoked their ability to operate within their domains. This is something I've been wondering about. Maybe CCP sat down and weighed the options and decided they couldn't survive another t20. Perhaps this blog represents a business making the best decision for it's shareholders and not an impartial IA department revealing their findings. Then again maybe that's not the case and they just did an absolute crap job of investigation and PR. Ever come to think of it that maby YOU are in the wrong? Always so sure the other is the one misbehaving, it's always someone else that's wrong, that is the goon problem. I'm sorry to say you are not always right, nor will you ever always be right. I hope you can live with that notion.
dynamic lady	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:41:00 - [289] Originally by: Zeoliter It is funny that all teh Goons and their supporters are doing right now is screaming about the "real" or "big" issue - the MSN thing. So are you now stating that the whole Sharkbait thing wasn't a big deal and not worth an orchestrated campaign to slur CCP's name across the internet? Of course now that it has been proven to be false it is now of no importance. Nice tactic. It's time for GoonSwarm members to look inwards and examine what went wrong and see how it came to pass that many excellent players in your alliance were misled, manipulated and duped into such a malicious chain of events. It's good to see that Mittani has taken responsibilty in some form and resigned his position as CEO of GoonSwarm. I'm hoping that Remedial is in a real-life position where he can once again lead GoonSwarm into honourable battle and out of the snake pit that Mittani took them. Can we get back to killing each other in Detorid and Tenerifis now. Cheers, see you on the battlefield. Not any coordinated action or similar behaviour a group of people has - especially when its a reaction toward an important matter such as the integrity of a service providing corp (CCP)- can be considered propaganda. However, a good example of a propaganda machine at work is what you are doing now; trying to point out how ur enemy has been decieved by their leaders and betrayed and lied to, to weaken their ranks and self confidence. Germany in WWII anyone? but you when you mentioned 'goons and their SUPPORTERS' the only thing that comes to mind is how really amazing and just superbly shocking it is for the corps and alliances on BOB's side (mind u I dont care about the war as i'm not on either side) are ignoring the core of the issue and concentrating on the fact that it is an 'enemy and goon made issue therefore its baseless and wrong'. what about the whole MSN and special lines of communications problem? personally I always (and i'm sure alot alot of other players) felt that this is the roots of the issue at hand. Doesnt that concern you AS A PLAYER and a PAYING CUSTOMER at all? chearing blindly for the clearing of BOB your ally without referring to your logic and your 'honesty', that kind of attitudes strike me as extremely shallow... just forget politics for a minute, the idea of such issues simply mentioned disgusts me and a big part of the comunity, let alone the possibility of them being real.
Virtuoso DeToure Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:43:00 - [290] Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 30/05/2007 06:37:49 Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf I expected no more and no less. CCP can't afford to admit wrongdoing. Doing so could open themselves up to class action lawsuits both in the European Union and the United States. They simply could not survive if either of the trade commissions in those entities decided that fraud had been committed and thus revoked their ability to operate within their domains. This is something I've been wondering about. Maybe CCP sat down and weighed the options and decided they couldn't survive another t20. Perhaps this blog represents a business making the best decision for it's shareholders and not an impartial IA department revealing their findings. Then again maybe that's not the case and they just did an absolute crap job of investigation and PR. Ever come to think of it that maby YOU are in the wrong? Always so sure the other is the one misbehaving, it's always someone else that's wrong, that is the goon problem. I'm sorry to say you are not always right, nor will you ever always be right. I hope you can live with that notion. If you've ever read our forums you'll know that Toffles hates Goons more than anyone in Eve and there is no way in hell he thinks we're ever in the right. Jesus, the guy never shuts up with his anti-Goon rhetoric. You'd think he was a BoB plant. Or maybe just a CCP employee?

Toffles GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:47:00 - [291] Originally by: Virtuoso DeToure Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 30/05/2007 06:37:49 Originally by: Toffles Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf I expected no more and no less. CCP can't afford to admit wrongdoing. Doing so could open themselves up to class action lawsuits both in the European Union and the United States. They simply could not survive if either of the trade commissions in those entities decided that fraud had been committed and thus revoked their ability to operate within their domains. This is something I've been wondering about. Maybe CCP sat down and weighed the options and decided they couldn't survive another t20. Perhaps this blog represents a business making the best decision for it's shareholders and not an impartial IA department revealing their findings. Then again maybe that's not the case and they just did an absolute crap job of investigation and PR. Ever come to think of it that maby YOU are in the wrong? Always so sure the other is the one misbehaving, it's always someone else that's wrong, that is the goon problem. I'm sorry to say you are not always right, nor will you ever always be right. I hope you can live with that notion. If you've ever read our forums you'll know that Toffles hates Goons more than anyone in Eve and there is no way in hell he thinks we're ever in the right. Jesus, the guy never shuts up with his anti-Goon rhetoric. You'd think he was a BoB plant. Or maybe just a CCP employee? Just fess up about "OPERATION DESTROY CCP CUZ WE LOST SOME SPACE SOMEWHERE" and I'll stop with it.
Mestoth Minmatar Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:48:00 - [292] Im willing to accept what has been "proven". however, like many people before me: 1) Why is MSN acceptable to contact Devs. I dont have any Devs MSN details. Yes Devs etc DO need to be able to play the game...but WITHIN the game. Petitions and Evemail...fine. MSN not so fine! 2)You ask why people went crazy and posted like mad: its because EVERYTIME someone asks the question...one of your CM's comes and closes or deletes the thread in 60 seconds. To anyone that DOESNT believe it, TRY it..next time there is a forum drama...TRY posting on the forums. Threads just disapear....with the t20 scandal ANY thread that was posted about it or in was deleted, posts edited..AND YES I DID EMAIL...I got told that it was CM's ability and right.. Seriously: Threadnaughting is the ONLY way that will get a response, because everything else just gets carpet swept...If you responded to issues that CLEARLY were agrivating people BEFORE threadnaughting is required then i might be sympathetic. whilst the timing is...odd...ill leave that bit alone. but having faced the annoyance of having my posts deleted or edited because they say things that wasnt wanted to be asked or said...my sympathy for it is minimal.... but: ++ to eve, bring on some developements!
Angus McDorble Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:51:00 - [293] It is very sad that this had to happen to such a wonderful game. Well, it was fun while it lasted...let's see what's left when the dust settles. ------------------------------- Sorry I stunk up the factory. snip That signature is inappropriate and trolling. Email [email protected] with a link to your signature if you have questions. -Rauth
DB Preacher Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:51:00 - [294] Good stuffs, now let's get back to the game chaps. Cheers, dbp Caldari Alliance PVP Championship Winner Current RKK Ranking: (PSCAL6) Proficient Short Tanto
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb	Posted - 2007.05.30 06:54:00 - [295] CCP, I have no comment on merit or truthfulness of the allegations themselves, but one thing is very clear to me. Kieron has utterly failed as community manager - and you know this is not the first time.
Radar Rat SPECTRE Ops	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:00:00 - [296] Whats interesting is that CCP have completely ignored the allegation about MSN, they've either decided that they aren't going to investigate it or they've decided that to tell the truth about it would be so damaging that they can't afford to. How long does it take for internal affairs to walk around the office and say "hey has anyone got MSN, or used it to contact BoB", or for that matter to look at peoples terminals and check ?... I think it is safe to assume that CCP already know the answer, which begs the question, why aren't they anouncing the results ?.... I think its more a case of how do they admit to their links with BoB without causing even more bad publicity. ---------------------------------------------- The early bird may catch the worm, but its the second rat that gets the cheese !!!
Captain Thunk Omniscient Order	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:02:00 - [297] Excellent, that's perfect. The situation is precisely how BoB have been saying it has been for the past few days. Including the holiday weekend conspiracy (insert tinfoil hat joke here). Glad that's all wrapped up neatly. Captain Thunk See this hook? variable speed and five alternate attatchments baby.
Alias11 Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:03:00 - [298] Fanfest is gonna be awesome
Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:15:00 - [299] CCP should stay away from corperations or Alliances .. If you want to test things go make your own corperation on the live server.. make your own alliance on the server to test things.. Even with this so called proof it proofs nothing.. Admins should not be able to use there stuff when there playing on a normal char. Only with special acounts.. anyway where smoke is is fire.. i dont like ccp.. ->My Vids<-
Alice Cholmondeley Christine.	Posted - 2007.05.30 07:15:00 - [300] Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 30/05/2007 07:15:02 Originally by: Angus McDorble It is very sad that this had to happen to such a wonderful game. Well, it was fun while it lasted...let's see what's left when the dust settles. Maby the good goons will remain, hopefully alot of them will realise how much the bad goons are ruining it for them and lay the blame where it's supposed to be.



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