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GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:59:00 - [1] Fourth Alliance Tournament The tournament rules are finally ready. These rules allow for a wide range of viable setups and encourage total PWNage. This time around, the more ships you blow up, the more are your chances of advancing from the group stage. Also the alliance behind the team will benefit directly from their team winning, so we want to encourage alliance members to support their teams wholeheartedly. We are introducing a trophy to the winners of the tourney. The name of the winners will be etched on the trophy (in the description) and the trophy will be handed to the winners of the next tourney who will have their name etched on it, and so on and so forth. This tournament will exciting and fun to watch. The signup page is being created and will be up later this week. Some alliances have already announced their participation. We are doing away with the non-refundable signup fee, which was supposed to be used for the prize money, and replaced it with something more exciting. The signup fee will now be refunded. More on that later. Alliances now have the option of championing or representing a faction. The faction they champion will reward the alliance handsomely. The following Factions can be represented: Amarr Caldari Gallente Minmatar Angel Cartel Blood Raiders Guristas Sansha Serpentis


GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:59:00 - [2] Rules 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 32 teams. 2. Two teams with the highest points scored in each bracket advance to the elimination rounds. 3. Alliances can field up to ten pilots on the battlefield. The team captain has to be announced beforehand. Any alliance member can fight at any time. 4. Alliances will be allowed entry on a first-come first-serve basis. 5. A pilot cannot compete on behalf of more than one alliance at a time. 6. All competing pilots must be members of the alliance they are competing at the time they fight. 7. Fights are limited to 15 minutes in the first round. After that the fight will be stopped and whichever alliance has destroyed ships with a higher number of total point worth will be declared winner. See "Winning a match in the group stage" for more details. 8. In the elimination rounds, fights will be stopped after 20 minutes if both teams still have ships on the battlefield. The winners will be declared based on the following: 8.1. The team with the higher number of total point worth of opponents ships destroyed, wins. 8.2. If both teams have destroyed equal amounts total point worth, the team which advanced from the brackets with a higher total score will advance. 9. Intentional podkilling is NOT allowed. Accidental podkills will be reimbursed and no penalties incurred. Entry fee Entry fee is one billion ISK. The fee is returned once the group stage is finished and the team has participated in all of its scheduled fights. Place and Tactics 1. Teams are brought to a star system in uncharted space and designated as Team 1 and Team 2. 2. There are eight beacons in the system which serve as start off points. Four beacons are marked for Team 1 and four marked for Team 2. The teams must assemble at any of the four beacons designated for their team. 3. Once the word is given, teams warp in to the arena from whichever beacon they assembled, at a range they prefer, up to a maximum of 70 km. Team members are allowed to warp in at different ranges. 4. The arena will measure a 125 km radius, 250km diameter. 5. After the teams have warped in to the arena, they will wait for EVETV clearance to begin the fight. This is to allow time to set up the cameras. 6. When EVETV is ready, the host sets of a powerful ECM burst and warps off. This signals the start of the fight. 7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her ship will be destroyed. 8. Warping within the arena is not allowed. 9. Dropping secure or insecure cargo containers is not allowed. Dropping regular jettison containers is allowed. 10. Locking the enemy team before the match starts is NOT allowed. 11. Moving ships to improve positions before the match starts is NOT allowed. Ships 1. Each team has 100 points to select their ships. Teams must use a minimum of 75 points. 2. Each team may have up to 10 ships on the battlefield. 3. Unused points will be added to the opponents score. 4. The ship points table is as follows, shiptypes not listed in the table are not allowed: 37 - Battleship, Faction 27 - Battleship 27 - Battlecruiser, Tech2 18 - Battlecruiser 19 - Cruiser, Logistics / Recon 17 - Cruiser, Heavy assault 13 - Cruiser, Faction 10 - Cruiser 8 -- Destroyer, Tech2 5 -- Destroyer 6 -- Frigate, Tech2 4 -- Frigate, Faction 3 -- Frigate Fitting 1. All T1 and T2 drones and modules are allowed. 2. All implants are allowed. 3. Boosters and rigs are not allowed. 4. T2 ammunition and missiles are allowed. 5. Cloaking is not allowed. 6. Target jamming modules and drones are allowed. Sensor dampening and tracking disrupting modules/drones are allowed 7. Cap Boosters are allowed 8. Faction, COSMOS, dead space and officer modules are not allowed 9. Logistics drones are allowed. Winning a match in the group stage 1. In each match, teams get points for killing ships, based on their value in the rules. 2. The more ships you kill, the more points you get, with winner of a fight decided by who kills the most points. 3. For winning a fight, an team will receive a 25% bonus to the points they score. 4. If you kill the entire opposing team, it is considered ôT+TALHELLDEATHö. You get 150 points total (a 50% bonus). 5. At the end of the group stage, the top 2 teams in each group by points scored will go through to the finals. Penalties 1. A player found breaking any of the above rules can be penalized in several ways, depending on the severity of their offence. 2. A player or team can be banned from competing for one or more matches. 3. A player or alliance can be banned from competing for the remainder of the tournament, and/or any future tournaments.


GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.17 10:59:00 - [3] Tournament Prizes This subject has been the cause of a lot of debate, but we feel that after much discussion we have a winner. You have called for something special for the pilots, the alliances want something cool for everyone, and the bragging rights are not to be passed up either. The bragging rights Pilots will be awarded medals û Bronze, Silver and Gold. For now, these medals are unique items that can sit in your hangar. When the medal system is brought into the game, pilots will have the opportunity to exchange these for a badge that will appear on your ôshow infoö page. For the alliances, a tournament is not complete without a Cup! This tournament will see the first round of a perpetual trophy. Far into the future, every tournament will see the previous champion handing it back û for safekeeping by the next champions and a new name etched on the side for all time. For the Alliance Each alliance gets the opportunity to champion a faction just as knights of old championed fair maidens. The bravest and most daring knight won favour and so will the winning alliance - 1st place a 30% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 2nd place a 20% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 3rd place a 10% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. For the best of the best, the few, the elite We have saved the best till last for the winning pilots. Just as the faction will give standings to the member pilots, so too will there be a special bonus for the elite winning team. First prize. 20 million loyalty points split equally among the members of the winning team. Second prize. 12 million loyalty points split equally among the members of the winning team. Third prize. 6 million loyalty points split equally among the members of the winning team. The loyalty points are towards the militant corporation of each faction, and can be used in their LP store.

Sivona Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.18 12:40:00 - [4] To clarrify: If a team comes 1st, 2nd or 3rd will their standing bonus potentially have a negative impact upon their standings or is it just a straight increase? For example MC pick say gallente to champion if they come 3rd (hopeful i know) will the increased gallente standings affect their caldari standings or will it just be a straight increase with no adverse affects?

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.18 12:59:00 - [5] Originally by: Sivona To clarrify: If a team comes 1st, 2nd or 3rd will their standing bonus potentially have a negative impact upon their standings or is it just a straight increase? For example MC pick say gallente to champion if they come 3rd (hopeful i know) will the increased gallente standings affect their caldari standings or will it just be a straight increase with no adverse affects? No derived standing increase or loss toward other factions.

Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.18 12:59:00 - [6] Since we will not be championing any faction - it's listed as an "option" to champion for a faction after all, and championing for them is absolutely against our ingame ideology - that means that apart from the trophy, we get screwed out of any potential rewards, right? Either way, cool. Driving the ideological message home is more important than any prizes :P --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Devilish Ledoux Caldari Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.18 13:09:00 - [7] If you're not sucking up to one faction or another, you're left out in the cold. Nothing new to see here. _ Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.18 13:19:00 - [8] shrug SF will still enter, supporting no faction, prizes or no prizes. Cosmo The Star Fraction Communications Portal
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.18 13:29:00 - [9] If you champion the Amarr, you are not limited to solely Amarrian ships. I'm poking Nova to elaborate on what happens if you choose to champion none of the factions (ie; prizes) You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
El Yatta Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.07.18 13:35:00 - [10] Well done Nova! I'm VERY happy to see 1) Warping out makes boomboom (so no saving your shiny ships, hopefully a state raven or tribal pest will go boom like the impoc last time!) 2) Scraping through on points WONT help your cause, because instead of getting 3 poiints out of 3 for a win, even if you onjly killed 1 frigate and held the enemy down to the end, if you do that this time you'll get about 4 points out of a maximum 150. I know we won a game doing that in the last tournament, and indeed qualified from the group stage with it, but its just not as good for the viewers! This way, teams are encouraged to go all out and we'll hopefully see max explosions! Woot! 3) Only 32 teams so no non-televised prelims! 4) LP isn't too bad a prize. I hate standings and LP, in all honesty, because the mission-running side of the game is a waste of time populated by ******s, but LP is such a versatile prize, as they'll be able to choose from a vast range of interesting and valuable items. I like the trophy too. However, it really does leave Star Fraction out in the cold, and they put on such a good showing last time! One of your two rotating signatures exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes - Devil ([email protected])
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.18 13:56:00 - [11] thanks for reading thru our feedback finally, I quite like the changes :)
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:03:00 - [12] So many changes, yet almost none of the big issues have been addressed? Were you listening in the other thread? Still no faction ships as prizes, just lame medals and a trophy, which last I checked can't be sold for anything, thus the focus still seems to be on the alliance, rather than the team. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Raem Civrie Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:04:00 - [13] Will pirate LP store offers be increased any time soon? If not, it'll be all HG pirate implant offers taken out by the winnars. ;( ---- All you do is bark, you never meow
jamesw Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:25:00 - [14] Originally by: QwaarJet So many changes, yet almost none of the big issues have been addressed? Were you listening in the other thread? Still no faction ships as prizes, just lame medals and a trophy, which last I checked can't be sold for anything, thus the focus still seems to be on the alliance, rather than the team. Er.. You failed to mention The 20 million LP's for the team... I hear those can be turned into faction ships, among other things... -- Latest Vid: Domination!
nickycakes Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.18 14:42:00 - [15] Are you seriously getting paid money IRL to do this? ---
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:08:00 - [16] Originally by: jamesw Originally by: QwaarJet So many changes, yet almost none of the big issues have been addressed? Were you listening in the other thread? Still no faction ships as prizes, just lame medals and a trophy, which last I checked can't be sold for anything, thus the focus still seems to be on the alliance, rather than the team. Er.. You failed to mention The 20 million LP's for the team... I hear those can be turned into faction ships, among other things... I'm talking about something unique, if they gave out more Corvuses and Storms then the price they would cost would lower, thus being less insane than what they went for before. Apart from the prizes and lame faction representation crap, the points system still hasn't been modified enough. The majority of people are screaming for changes in Battleships and Command ship costs. My main gripe about the new rules is now that winning basically means nothing unless you trash your opponent. Effectively, close fought, entertaining battles will end with both teams losing out. Winning is winning, regardless of how much you win by. It should stay that way. There's no way this tournament will match the excitement of the last one. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:10:00 - [17] no more isk... :( that would been great to keep the fights interesting for corporations like ours... now only 3 teams get prizes? maybe our alliance should back out... we have skill but only the backing for one round of ships and entry fee. the idea of getting paid per round meant we could compete with bob and supper alliances. but now it's all for not :/ Also where do these Lp points go? right my point again, why did it go form everyone that makes it to round 2 wins something! to F all of you unless your the top 3? I mean we aim to win but we know with super teams out there that would be near impossible, but it would fun to see how high we got and still won something. I really don't get it. but it wil be fun none the less! ----------------------------------- I'm working my way through college target CCP
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:14:00 - [18] You can probably knock this out in one weekend with the amount of teams that will participate only for the glory of it. The tangible prizes are a drop in the bucket for any group that could field a team capable of winning. Great job ruining this fine tradition. we ran outta cowbell.
Kayosoni Caldari Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:24:00 - [19] Ok I got a few questions Quote: Pilots will be awarded medals û Bronze, Silver and Gold. For now, these medals are unique items that can sit in your hangar. When the medal system is brought into the game, pilots will have the opportunity to exchange these for a badge that will appear on your ôshow infoö page. For the alliances, a tournament is not complete without a Cup! This tournament will see the first round of a perpetual trophy. Far into the future, every tournament will see the previous champion handing it back û for safekeeping by the next champions and a new name etched on the side for all time. Will these be backdated to previous tournaments? Quote: 1st place a 30% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 2nd place a 20% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 3rd place a 10% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. is this PERCENT increase so like, if you have no standing to a faction, you get none? ----------------------------------- btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:28:00 - [20] Edited by: Cividari on 18/07/2007 15:28:23 Quote: Quote: 1st place a 30% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 2nd place a 20% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 3rd place a 10% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. is this PERCENT increase so like, if you have no standing to a faction, you get none? I would assume it works the same way as standings with concord is awarded in %.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:30:00 - [21] Those prizes are abysmal. Truly, and UTTERLY abysmal. So all you get for winning is some LPs (huh?) and a medal (shoop da woop). And IF your alliance goes for the (OPTIONAL) "championing a faction", you get a standings bonus. A standings bonus. You've got to be freaking kidding me. I honestly couldn't care less about a single one of those awards. If you offered them to me right now, I wouldn't get excited in the least. Also; still can't fathom the bizarre choice to ALLOW implants, DISALLOW podding, and BAN rigs. What? So only advantages that carry absolutely zero risk are allowed, then. Absolutely bizarre. --------
Raem Civrie Sons of Enelaise Enelaise	Posted - 2007.07.18 15:33:00 - [22] Originally by: Kayosoni Quote: 1st place a 30% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 2nd place a 20% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 3rd place a 10% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. is this PERCENT increase so like, if you have no standing to a faction, you get none? More importantly, can you champion a faction most team members are hostile to, and how will that work? Reset to zero before applying 30%, or just increase from the negative value (which in some cases would still be low enough for you to even do base lvl 1 agents)? ---- All you do is bark, you never meow

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.07.18 16:23:00 - [23] Originally by: Raem Civrie Originally by: Kayosoni is this PERCENT increase so like, if you have no standing to a faction, you get none? More importantly, can you champion a faction most team members are hostile to, and how will that work? Reset to zero before applying 30%, or just increase from the negative value (which in some cases would still be low enough for you to even do base lvl 1 agents)? Works like normal standing increase. You can champion a faction you have negative standings towards. Your standings will be increased from where they currently are.

Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:13:00 - [24] Having never participated in a tournament play in eve before, a few questions spring to mind... 1) The people are fixed for the tournament for each team, correct? Can't add or substitute anyone per match (keeping in mind the 100 pt hull limit) 2) Say you win the first round, and two of your team got popped in it. Ship replacements are allowed? 3) This probably renders #2 moot, but can you rekit/retool your team's ship makeup in between rounds? So one round you pop out in a pair of bhaalgorns and the next all rifters (for example)? ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.18 18:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Having never participated in a tournament play in eve before, a few questions spring to mind... 1) The people are fixed for the tournament for each team, correct? Can't add or substitute anyone per match (keeping in mind the 100 pt hull limit) Once the match starts those on the field are the team for that fight. Under the new rules, you can swap out any member or members of your team for another alliance pilot, as long as the pilot was a member of the alliance at the time your alliance signed up to the tournament. Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin 2) Say you win the first round, and two of your team got popped in it. Ship replacements are allowed? Yes, you can replace ships, after the fight. Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin 3) This probably renders #2 moot, but can you rekit/retool your team's ship makeup in between rounds? So one round you pop out in a pair of bhaalgorns and the next all rifters (for example)? Again, yes. In the time between the fights, you can radically change your line up. For example, you could field a Snake implant assisted team in one fight, and in the next switch out for a full Slave implant crew. It's up to you. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
The Cosmopolite Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.18 19:21:00 - [26] The irony of all this is that we would probably regard negative standings from the core empire factions on an alliance basis* as quite a reward for winning... Cosmo * ie. negative standings shown on the alliance standing tab The Star Fraction Communications Portal
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.07.18 21:54:00 - [27] Qwaar I think its time we gave up. It is extremely obvious that this tournament is to benefit the ISK sellers and mission runners of the larger alliances. This is an insult to pvp'ers everywhere. I think you should have a mining tournament with prizes such as these, and have a seperate one for pvp. The rules are fine Ive never had a problem with them, as no matter the rules one cant argue with them. Everyone is on the same filed using the same items. The point system I see hasnt changed. This proves that the ones running this do not realize just how much different Tier 1 is from Tier 2 and 3, especially in battlecruisers. Not to mention that HAC's one of the most useless ship in the game (except vaga) are almost as much as some very overpowered recons. Anyways my alliance is still in it, but I would be surprized if you see many Battleships in this thing, as most wont want to spend ISK, to lose ISK. WildCat
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.18 22:46:00 - [28] Probably agree with you Wildcat. Hope we fight each other in the tourney at some stage :) "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2007.07.18 23:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Devilish Ledoux If you're not sucking up to one faction or another, you're left out in the cold. Nothing new to see here. RP your way out of it, assume a Federation based political platform and refute any claims that you're championing the current political system. It's time to break out Jade and the paragraphs of doom and roleplay your asses off to spin this.
Tyrrax Thorrk Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.19 00:07:00 - [30] Good job locking the other thread without responding to any of the constructive criticism. Horrible job on everything else. http://eve.klaki.net/
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.19 00:43:00 - [31] Originally by: Wendat Huron Originally by: Devilish Ledoux If you're not sucking up to one faction or another, you're left out in the cold. Nothing new to see here. RP your way out of it, assume a Federation based political platform and refute any claims that you're championing the current political system. It's time to break out Jade and the paragraphs of doom and roleplay your asses off to spin this. Which is what we do by not championing any of the factions. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.19 01:10:00 - [32] Ive got a couple of simple yes/no questions. Is faction ammo allowed? If TeamA starts with 99 points used and TeamB starts with 100 points used, does that mean TeamB has allready "killed" ships worth 1 point? Lets say TeamA kills half of TeamB for 50 points but TeamB kills all of TeamA for a full 150 points. Even though TeamB wins does TeamA still get 50 points?
Wigglytuff Vale Heavy Industries Molotov Coalition	Posted - 2007.07.19 02:03:00 - [33] It makes absolutely zero sense whatsoever to allow implants, and not allow podding, or rigs. This is not a PvP championship imo. PvPers would fight for the glory and bragging rights, not for an empire mission-runner's wet dream. People want prizes that mean something, the trophy and medals are cool, but the LP and standings are stupid. honestly, why would a pirate faction give a damn about some random capsuleer group 'championing' them? Besides, if said 'champions' lost, they'd make the faction look bad, and thus, would get a standings hit. The prize should be something impressive but meaningful to pvpers. Sure LP to cash in for billions worth of implants/whatever is nice, but why not just give them ISK then? No, give the winners a Station, in Empire (high or low sec, doesn't matter to me). And when the next tourney comes around, the new winners get said station. Belt piracy isnt what it used to be.
Eytre	Posted - 2007.07.19 06:52:00 - [34] Originally by: GM Nova The following Factions can be represented: Amarr Caldari Gallente Minmatar Angel Cartel Blood Raiders Guristas Sansha Serpentis Damn, no interbus, there goes our prize...
Linavin Mercurialis Inc. Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.07.19 08:09:00 - [35] I still haven't the slighest idea why rigs are disallowed. All the teams have acess to them, and they're very cheap considering whats being fielded in the tournement. To be honest if a team wants to go and blow several billion isk on tech II rigs for marginal benifit thats fine by me. Tech II rigs don't have nearly the effect that pirate implants do. Rigs are now part of eve pvp as anything, they're wonderful for making out of the box setups workable and would add more flavor to the tourney. ---
Shin Ra Origin Unknown.	Posted - 2007.07.19 08:27:00 - [36] Question: Suppose a team represent Caldari, and one member has 0.0 standings with caldari navy. If the said team wins, what does that make his standings? Does it take connections skill into account? Are these standings with every Caldari corp, or just with the Caldari State itself. What good are caldari State standings?
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.19 11:26:00 - [37] Edited by: R3dSh1ft on 19/07/2007 11:27:09 Good luck getting people to stay up until 4am local time to participate in the tourney now. Don't you remember the debarcle with teams just not turning up at the last one? This is going to be doubly so now, after all, if the only benefit one would get is going from -10 with a pirate faction to -7, wtf is the point anyway? DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.19 14:37:00 - [38] Originally by: Shin Ra Question: Suppose a team represent Caldari, and one member has 0.0 standings with caldari navy. If the said team wins, what does that make his standings? Does it take connections skill into account? Are these standings with every Caldari corp, or just with the Caldari State itself. What good are caldari State standings? It would work same way as any other standings does. To make it possible to calc we need to change the value of max and lowest standing. Max (+10) is 0 and lowest possible (-10) is 20. Lets say your standings with caldari are -10 (easy to calc) and you win the tourny, then your standings increase with 30% out of 20. So you go from -10 to -4. Or lets say your standings are 0.0, you change it the same way as above. 0.0 is 10, 30% out of 10 is 3 so your standings are now 0+3=3. Hope this makes atleast some sense, I havent got much sleep today.
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:06:00 - [39] Actually, like GM Nova stated, it's the same as with regular standings increases. 1% equals 0.1 standing points. so 30% would be 3 points of standing. Example: You have a standing of 4.15 to the Caldari State faction, and as their champion, you win the tournament. You would end up with 7.15 faction standings. Easy enough, huh? --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:11:00 - [40] I havent done missions in awhile so I might very well be wrong, but when you rat (gain sec status with concord in %) or when you do missions your standings increase much faster when your Standings are low which supports what I wrote (if anyone was able to understand it )
Shadow Serpent Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:35:00 - [41] Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk Good job locking the other thread without responding to any of the constructive criticism. Horrible job on everything else. QFT. I think everyone should just boycot the tournament. The prizes are a joke and as Wildcat stated, the prizes are geared toward rewarding mission runners and not PvPers. Seriously, who put GM Nova in charge? This tournament is a complete joke. No one had any complaints with the prizes that were awarded last year, why not just issue the same prizes? Ever heard the term "...Don't fix it if it ain't broken..."?
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:36:00 - [42] Originally by: Cividari I havent done missions in awhile so I might very well be wrong, but when you rat (gain sec status with concord in %) or when you do missions your standings increase much faster when your Standings are low which supports what I wrote (if anyone was able to understand it ) What you wrote is correct. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:43:00 - [43] just a quick question... will NONE of the qualifier matches be shown on EVE TV like you said earlier?
Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.19 15:46:00 - [44] All matches will be shown on eveTV. They will only allow 32 teams to sign up so they can show all fights.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.07.19 22:10:00 - [45] Originally by: R3dSh1ft Edited by: R3dSh1ft on 19/07/2007 11:36:55 Good luck getting people to stay up until 4am local time to participate in the tourney now. Don't you remember the debarcle with teams just not turning up at the last one? This is going to be doubly so now, after all, if the only benefit one would get is going from -10 with a pirate faction to -7, wtf is the point anyway? ok enough whinging How about.. 5 Million skillpoints, 5Bn ISK to each team member on the first place team. 3 Million skillpoints, 3Bn ISK to each member of the second place team. 1 Million skillpoints, 1Bn ISK to each member of the third place team. Skillpoints would be given to the skills of the pilot's choosing (of course confined to in-game mechanics - no dread 5 without bs 5 for example). The skillpoints are a prize that can't be gained any other way (and it can even be roleplayed as some kind of memetic transfer or whatever). The ISK is there to appeal to those who like it, and who aren't the richest bears in the forest - but not an unbelievable (or game changing) amount. And of course the medal/cup are there for the glory hungry. Giving skill points is a horrible idea. Besides, not all skillpoints are equal.
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.19 22:44:00 - [46] In the spirit of a level playing field, I really can't help but wonder why the relatively cheap rigs which would be at risk are disallowed, and horribly expensive implants which have the same effect as what was stated as reason for disallowing rigs - prolonged tanking = boring matches - are allowed, and not even put at risk. That is kind of puzzling. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.20 03:34:00 - [47] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar In the spirit of a level playing field, I really can't help but wonder why the relatively cheap rigs which would be at risk are disallowed, and horribly expensive implants which have the same effect as what was stated as reason for disallowing rigs - prolonged tanking = boring matches - are allowed, and not even put at risk. That is kind of puzzling. While I don't agree with the decision, the logic is fairly plain. A set of implants is a one-time investment in a pilot that, win or lose, that pilot gets to keep. A rig for a ship is a one-time investment that lasts as long as the ship lasts, and doesn't scale with your ship--that is, you'll spend just as much rigging ten Silver Magnates as ten Punishers. Drawing a line between the two, while incorrect in my opinion, is not entirely unreasonable. At the end of the day, the cost of a set of implants is zero--you can't lose them during the tournament, and you have them when the tournament is over. Rigs, OTOH, are a large cost that simply explodes. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Eytre	Posted - 2007.07.20 07:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Tareen Kashaar In the spirit of a level playing field, I really can't help but wonder why the relatively cheap rigs which would be at risk are disallowed, and horribly expensive implants which have the same effect as what was stated as reason for disallowing rigs - prolonged tanking = boring matches - are allowed, and not even put at risk. That is kind of puzzling. While I don't agree with the decision, the logic is fairly plain. A set of implants is a one-time investment in a pilot that, win or lose, that pilot gets to keep. A rig for a ship is a one-time investment that lasts as long as the ship lasts, and doesn't scale with your ship--that is, you'll spend just as much rigging ten Silver Magnates as ten Punishers. Drawing a line between the two, while incorrect in my opinion, is not entirely unreasonable. At the end of the day, the cost of a set of implants is zero--you can't lose them during the tournament, and you have them when the tournament is over. Rigs, OTOH, are a large cost that simply explodes. --P I was under the impression that rigs were banned because they promote turtle tanks (think myr with 3 armor rigs) and while some pirate implants do the same (Crystal, and to a lesser degree Slave) I bet the organizers were praying for talisman implants to be used alot as to totally destroy people's tanks. However I forsee either Snaked out teams with low dps or Crystaled our CNRs tanking as long to kill, if not longer to kill than a simple rigged myr. I say either allow both, or ban both, but who am I to judge. /shrug
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.07.20 11:35:00 - [49] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Actually, like GM Nova stated, it's the same as with regular standings increases. 1% equals 0.1 standing points. so 30% would be 3 points of standing. Example: You have a standing of 4.15 to the Caldari State faction, and as their champion, you win the tournament. You would end up with 7.15 faction standings. Easy enough, huh? Too easy. It is a bit more complicated. The general principle is that it takes as much effort to raise your standing from 0 to 5 as it does raising from 5 to 7.5. If you picture your standing as a certain amount of "standing points" you would have 5.0 standing with 20 standing points, 7.5 with 40, 8.75 with 60,.... (the numbers are not accurate, they are just an example how the game mechanic works) The connections (and diplomancy and the relatively useless cirminal connections) modify that "standing point" number, they do not give you a 4% bonus to your standing, but increase your standing points. So with lvl 5 (= 20% bonus) you'll start instead with 0 points with 20 (if 100 points = max standing). If you have 40 points without the skill you'll have 60 with the skill. A 30% bonus is quite strong actually if you have negative standing. I think it should be enough to make you able to run missions for a faction you have -10.0 with before skills. The tournament bonus should push you if you train diplomacy 4 or 5 below -2.0 effective standings. If you have high standings it's not that much though. It would get you from 4.15 to something around 5.5 or 6.0. Or from 9.0 to something in the area of 9.2. So the boost for an empire faction is rather pointless IMO. However, for an alliance which lives in curse, delve, fountain, stain or venal that boost could be very useful indeed if they pick the faction they champion for wisely. It also can boost your LP reward considerably. Pirate faction implants have currently LP-isk exchange ratios between 2-4 millions per 1000 LPs. 20 mil LP can be worth 40-80 bil in faction implants.
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.20 17:39:00 - [50] Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis Giving skill points is a horrible idea. Besides, not all skillpoints are equal. Whats horrible about it, you just don't like the idea or you think something better is needed as a prize? When you say not all skillpoints are equal, I assume you mean a character with 6 charisma could put 5m skillpoints in a set of leadership skills rather than spacecommand with a perception level of 26? Well like I said the pilots get to choose, so its up to them how to spend it. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:05:00 - [51] TBH, I really like the idea of skillpoints as prizes. Dunno if they'd fly as the only prize, but definitely a good one. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Mjojjnir Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:29:00 - [52] We'll be there hopefully as long as we are able to sign-up.
Hohne Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.20 19:32:00 - [53] Amazing though, I wonder if any of the alliances that don't like the prizes ever go PvPing for fun and glory rather than the loot..... The fact that it's a gamble with no big payoff may help prevent alliances effectively 'buying' victory. Instead we may see some interesting strategies to get bang for buck wins. Mind you the no podding kind of ruins that to an extent. We get more players in each team, and so more variety, but then if each player gets an advantage with a pirate implant set, you will only have so many players with that ability. Maybe the next tournament the rules can be more desirable. I really would have like some sort of offical response on why no rigs. I thought the no boosters was to prevent there from being a huge element of luck in it. But now I see that it's to prevent the guy with the expensive implants from losing to someone with the same effect from a booster. (and who'd risk their guys with the expensive implants coming down with a bad case of booster side effects).
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.20 20:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Hohne I thought the no boosters was to prevent there from being a huge element of luck in it. But now I see that it's to prevent the guy with the expensive implants from losing to someone with the same effect from a booster. (and who'd risk their guys with the expensive implants coming down with a bad case of booster side effects). No. Originally by: Hohne Instead we may see some interesting strategies to get bang for buck wins. Mind you the no podding kind of ruins that to an extent. We get more players in each team, and so more variety, but then if each player gets an advantage with a pirate implant set, you will only have so many players with that ability. That's an interesting take on implants. I hadn't thought about it that way before. Not sure I agree, mind you, but certainly a fresh way to view the issue. Originally by: Hohne Amazing though, I wonder if any of the alliances that don't like the prizes ever go PvPing for fun and glory rather than the loot..... The fact that it's a gamble with no big payoff may help prevent alliances effectively 'buying' victory. Not really. The top contenders will spend, quite frankly, any amount to win. Prizes that aren't an insult to our level of investment are considered a bonus, not a requirement. The issue is this: Point #1: "Last tournament, we gave too much isk away in the form of unique ships." Point #2: "This tournament, we won't give away those same sorts of ships." Point #2 exacerbates the issue identified in point #1. Let me put it another way. The prizes for this tournament, as they currently stand, increase BoB's net worth by a minimum of 100 billion isk, even if BoB does not participate in the tournament. That's pretty *****-up for a tournament director who claims that the prizes from last tournament were already* worth too much. And THAT's why I'm angry about the prizes. Either the prizes from the last tournament were too low, or you're going about this all wrong. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Quintus Sertorius Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.20 22:16:00 - [55] Edited by: Quintus Sertorius on 20/07/2007 22:16:29 This also brings into play a real fun strategy. Say alliance A is paired against alliance B. Lets say A can't make the finals anymore. So now A can turtle run etc. They don't win, but all B gets is like 7-8 points, which should knock B out of making the finals as well. Halfway tempted to run an alt alliance team or something and rent results. P.S. The fun was sarcastic.
illusionary beauty Raid Industries	Posted - 2007.07.21 03:05:00 - [56] Anyone say when the tournament is for sure and what times the tournament will take place. i want to know whether or not i need to take off work or switch times or what not. I know eve tv said this, but it doesnt mention relative times. "Aug 31st to September 2nd, then September 7th to 9th. Yes, there will be a free stream to view."
Ghost Reaper Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.07.21 15:48:00 - [57] well to start with you should remove jamming, cause it will just turn into a ew logistic fight, which is boring, and not very tactical i.e (dump as much ew on them while we rep eachother) You also need to completly reconcider your prizes. If you want this to be more of a allaince effect rather then the rich people in the allaince, you need to offer more combat boosts. You have to remember one thing, most of the teams that get top (or even enter) are pvp orrientated, not ur mission whre. Giving them 20mil LP is a mission whres wet dream, but for pvpers its like WTF (same with ur POS idea) You gace motherships in the last one, this is a much bigger tourney, 10pilots, anyone in allaince can participate, offer a titan with pimped fittings (even though there crap now) Keep the idea about giving % boost to standings, it gives the whole allaince a reason to help. If you wont offer a titan, then give sumthing instead of LP points. Something that effects the whole allaince, and not a carebear thing, something that the whole allaince can use for PVP (maybe some kind of bonus or something) Stoping thinking of this tourney for the people who ***** missions in empore, becuase they wont be the ones winning or even getting close, its the pvp entitys. Gr Latest Vid: Blood Shock
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.21 17:28:00 - [58] Edited by: Ifni on 21/07/2007 17:28:17 Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Hohne Amazing though, I wonder if any of the alliances that don't like the prizes ever go PvPing for fun and glory rather than the loot..... The fact that it's a gamble with no big payoff may help prevent alliances effectively 'buying' victory. Not really. The top contenders will spend, quite frankly, any amount to win. Prizes that aren't an insult to our level of investment are considered a bonus, not a requirement. The issue is this: Point #1: "Last tournament, we gave too much isk away in the form of unique ships." Point #2: "This tournament, we won't give away those same sorts of ships." Point #2 exacerbates the issue identified in point #1. Let me put it another way. The prizes for this tournament, as they currently stand, increase BoB's net worth by a minimum of 100 billion isk, even if BoB does not participate in the tournament. That's pretty *****-up for a tournament director who claims that the prizes from last tournament were already* worth too much. And THAT's why I'm angry about the prizes. Either the prizes from the last tournament were too low, or you're going about this all wrong. Did you pull that value from thin air? Or have you done a poll on each and every potential buyer for the Corvus/Storm? You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.21 20:27:00 - [59] Originally by: Ifni Edited by: Ifni on 21/07/2007 17:28:17 Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Hohne Amazing though, I wonder if any of the alliances that don't like the prizes ever go PvPing for fun and glory rather than the loot..... The fact that it's a gamble with no big payoff may help prevent alliances effectively 'buying' victory. Not really. The top contenders will spend, quite frankly, any amount to win. Prizes that aren't an insult to our level of investment are considered a bonus, not a requirement. The issue is this: Point #1: "Last tournament, we gave too much isk away in the form of unique ships." Point #2: "This tournament, we won't give away those same sorts of ships." Point #2 exacerbates the issue identified in point #1. Let me put it another way. The prizes for this tournament, as they currently stand, increase BoB's net worth by a minimum of 100 billion isk, even if BoB does not participate in the tournament. That's pretty *****-up for a tournament director who claims that the prizes from last tournament were already* worth too much. And THAT's why I'm angry about the prizes. Either the prizes from the last tournament were too low, or you're going about this all wrong. Did you pull that value from thin air? Or have you done a poll on each and every potential buyer for the Corvus/Storm? Number of Corvuses in game = 4. Number of Storms in game = 4. 3 of each left on the market, since Entity snagged both a Corvus and a Storm and there's pretty much zero chance he'll ever sell them. Rumors of their sale price puts them at about 75b apiece, and that was before we knew they wouldn't be re-issued for this tournament. As such, BoB, with 5 ships remaining, currently holds 375b in ships and 150b in isk as a result of the last tournament, based on old numbers. You don't think the fact that these ships won't be given out again would effect at least a 25% increase in their per-unit value? Still, you're missing the point. Let's say that it makes the old ships worth 5,000 isk more, apiece. Isn't that still the exact opposite of what they'd want to do? --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.07.22 01:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Pilk Number of Corvuses in game = 4. Number of Storms in game = 4. 3 of each left on the market, since Entity snagged both a Corvus and a Storm and there's pretty much zero chance he'll ever sell them. Rumors of their sale price puts them at about 75b apiece, and that was before we knew they wouldn't be re-issued for this tournament. As such, BoB, with 5 ships remaining, currently holds 375b in ships and 150b in isk as a result of the last tournament, based on old numbers. You don't think the fact that these ships won't be given out again would effect at least a 25% increase in their per-unit value? Still, you're missing the point. Let's say that it makes the old ships worth 5,000 isk more, apiece. Isn't that still the exact opposite of what they'd want to do? --P While I do agree with you on principle, short of taking them away from BoB there isn't much that CCP can do that is "right." Right now, BoB theoretically has six 75B ships in their hangars (not counting the titans, natch!). Who will pay that much for a ship that will, for all intents and purposes, collect dust in a hangar? Not many. Entity is sort of an oddball in that regards, though I think its cool what he's doing. So the likelihood of them ever liquidating those ships is very miniscule...the only real possibility of them doing so is to hold a lottery with a 2-3 billion isk ticket price for each ship--and even that isn't terribly likely to fully succeed. That being said, if more ships were handed out for this tournament and future ones, then the ships become less "unique" or "irreplaceable" and while the value goes down some, the likelihood of being able to move them on the market goes up--so in effect BoB wins that way too, since they now have liquid isk (or T2 BPOs, or whatever more fluid commodity is used) instead of the value locked up in that ship. Most likely, the ships will NOT see the market, but be used in tournament play (Impoc-style) when a prize warrants their use. At this point, it would be a big surprise if they whip out their epeens for this low-prize tournament. Bhaalgorns (that they've farmed for basically free from their plexes), sure. State/Tribal issues? Not so much. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.07.22 12:34:00 - [61] Edited by: Ifni on 22/07/2007 12:34:24 Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Ifni Did you pull that value from thin air? Or have you done a poll on each and every potential buyer for the Corvus/Storm? Rumors of their sale price puts them at about 75b apiece, and that was before we knew they wouldn't be re-issued for this tournament. As such, BoB, with 5 ships remaining, currently holds 375b in ships and 150b in isk as a result of the last tournament, based on old numbers. You don't think the fact that these ships won't be given out again would effect at least a 25% increase in their per-unit value? So that's a yes then; you have pulled the number from thin air. You're sensationalising for the sake of your argument. Sure, their value stands a good chance of increasing, but then with a larger player base and thus increased demand, that would have happened anyway. By insinuating that the choice of prizes is deliberately set to increase the value of BOB's prizes is pretty underhand. I would go as far to say you're playing on peoples irrational fear of the BOB/CCP relationship through such high profile events as the T20 bpo fiasco. So, for the sake of argument, forget the increased value of the Corvus and Storm. CCP has said that they made a mistake allowing ships of such rarity into the game in such a quantity to one ingame entity. It started a flow of isk from Entity's wallet, to the tune of 150b, straight into BOB's allowing for what? 3 titans? 4 titans? to be built. Thats a pretty hefty game altering amount of isk. And so they have taken the current stance. It is obviously not what people want, since almost everyone, including yourself, appears to want their bit of the pimp pie. Hence the rage about the prizes. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 14:13:00 - [62] There is a difference between "half a trillion isk prize money" (rough estimate of last tourney's total) and "almost nothing" (with the exception of the LP, which has a sudo cash value, the rest has no appreciable in-game value to me personally). A zero value prize does nothing but increase the gap between the big alliances and the small ones. BoB and similar sized alliances can still throw massive billions at the tournament, seeing as it's still only a fraction of their total wealth. A small alliance, on the other hand, has very limited assets. How much do you think they're going to throw in to the tournament if they know there isn't ever a possibility of it being paid back? It'll just mean that smaller entities will be much less able or likely to attempt to compete with BoB and the other super alliances. And lets face it- they were struggling to keep up with them already... --------
DJTheBaron Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.07.22 17:17:00 - [63] Ladies, Gentlemen, and the children among you. This tournament is not about isk, those of you who participated in last yearÆs tournament in cruisers just to get the prize at the end, wasted all of our time. This tournament is about alliance pride, in defeating your opposition and carving out a reputation for your alliance as a formidable force, or the alliance that no other alliance could defeat. It is purely about respect, and having fun by gaining or loosing it. Yes we play a game where risking assets should always involve reward, but at the end of the day, we play a game, if your style of gameplay does not confirm with using assets, human resources, cunning and skill to defeat your opponents, why do you play online? Get back to the topic at hand, the alliance tournament, with more focus on tournament than alliance, as alliances already have their own forums for you to soil with your bitterness. FATAL Alliance looks forward to meeting you on in the arena. ___________________ "The Views & Opinions Expressed In This Post Represent Those of My Corporation & Alliance. So Go ** Yourself" DJTheBaron: FATAL Alliance Diplomat**
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.22 18:05:00 - [64] Originally by: Ifni Edited by: Ifni on 22/07/2007 12:34:24 Originally by: Pilk Originally by: Ifni Did you pull that value from thin air? Or have you done a poll on each and every potential buyer for the Corvus/Storm? Rumors of their sale price puts them at about 75b apiece, and that was before we knew they wouldn't be re-issued for this tournament. As such, BoB, with 5 ships remaining, currently holds 375b in ships and 150b in isk as a result of the last tournament, based on old numbers. You don't think the fact that these ships won't be given out again would effect at least a 25% increase in their per-unit value? So that's a yes then; you have pulled the number from thin air. You're sensationalising for the sake of your argument. Sure, their value stands a good chance of increasing, but then with a larger player base and thus increased demand, that would have happened anyway. By insinuating that the choice of prizes is deliberately set to increase the value of BOB's prizes is pretty underhand. I would go as far to say you're playing on peoples irrational fear of the BOB/CCP relationship through such high profile events as the T20 bpo fiasco. So, for the sake of argument, forget the increased value of the Corvus and Storm. CCP has said that they made a mistake allowing ships of such rarity into the game in such a quantity to one ingame entity. It started a flow of isk from Entity's wallet, to the tune of 150b, straight into BOB's allowing for what? 3 titans? 4 titans? to be built. Thats a pretty hefty game altering amount of isk. And so they have taken the current stance. It is obviously not what people want, since almost everyone, including yourself, appears to want their bit of the pimp pie. Hence the rage about the prizes. Well, of course. Anybody claiming pure altruism in this game--or, at the very least, on these forums--clearly has deeper motives. I want a shot at a Corvus, too, damn it. I've been forsaking much-more-important training for well over half a year now in preparation for this event. But I've been saying ever since the original prizes were announced--in Eris' devblog, you can go look there, if you like--that an isk prize is bull***, and that the right answer was to release more Corvuses, Storms, etc. If you look through my history on this and other matters, I think you'll recognize that I've been pretty level-headed all along. I didn't even resort to big, bold text now that it's been, what, three months?, and still no response from Nova or Eris on the fact that these prizes serve only to inflate the previous winners' wallets. And then I saw Nova say that the reason the prizes for this tournament sucked were because the last tournament's prizes were too good. Then, yes, I lost it and wrote in big, bold text. And emailed a link to Kieron. Because, dammit, someone* needs to step in and realize what's going on here. At the end of the day, any reward you give is going to be worth isk, even if it's as abstract as drawing recruits and thus increasing your corporation's tax base. So rather than make me sit in the LP store for five hours banging the "faction battleship BPC" button after the tournament, why not give me what I really want? If you do it right, it's worth about the same as the LP's, and it also doubles as a solution to the problem of the magnitude of the prizes given out last year. Nitpick my motives or my numbers all you want, at the end of the day, even the second place winner from last tournament walked away with almost 100b isk (remember, those ships were fully-fitted with Empire faction gear, too). I present a solution to both problems--having given away too much at the last tournament, and giving a prize that excites nobody in this one. Do with it what you will. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.22 19:57:00 - [65] I am still among the crowd that says that it isn't ISK or prized that draws us to the tourney. It's a shot to kick some ass publicly and get people to think of your name with a bit of "Huh, I remember ________ Alliance, they kicked some serious ass in that last alliance tourney". I can think of many names in that tourney that fit this ticket. Nebula Rasa Ronin Cult of War Omniscient Order Tyrrax, for having the stones to deploy the Impoc. The list does go on. When push comes to shove in EVE, that is where the real gain is. Think about it, I bet most of you had not heard of at least one of the teams that did well in the previous tourney until that point where on EVE-TV they made a name for themselves. Oh, and one question - is EVE-TV going to be free for the tourney or are we going to have to spend money on that, too? _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.22 20:03:00 - [66] EveTV is free for the tournament. And it's fine to say, "Fight for the honor, not for the prizes." But it's not okay to put that alongside the statement, "The last tournament's prizes were too large," when this tournament provides a concrete, reasonable, and RP-fulfilling way to counteract the stated problem. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.07.23 02:56:00 - [67] Originally by: Ituralde I am still among the crowd that says that it isn't ISK or prized that draws us to the tourney. It's a shot to kick some ass publicly and get people to think of your name with a bit of "Huh, I remember ________ Alliance, they kicked some serious ass in that last alliance tourney". I can think of many names in that tourney that fit this ticket. Nebula Rasa Ronin Cult of War Omniscient Order Tyrrax, for having the stones to deploy the Impoc. The list does go on. When push comes to shove in EVE, that is where the real gain is. Think about it, I bet most of you had not heard of at least one of the teams that did well in the previous tourney until that point where on EVE-TV they made a name for themselves. Oh, and one question - is EVE-TV going to be free for the tourney or are we going to have to spend money on that, too? We kicked Nebula Rasa's behind in the alst tourney, but that's another story. I know the rep gain is the most important thing. Hell, most of rep is built off the last 2 tournaments i've been in, but the Prizes need to be good enough so that the big alliances have something worthwhile to fight over, so we really get the BEST fighters in the tourney. As many alliances have withdrawn already, i'm not sure how much rep you'll gain for winning a tournament that no one of worth took part in. "Hobbes, she stepped into the Perimeter Of Wisdom.Run!"
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:01:00 - [68] so u are goign to reward a PVP-TOURNAMENT with mission rewards... yes i bet the thousands and thousands of 1337 pvp:ers really really want standing and LP... i mean pvp:ers loves to hear that they are mission *****s.. why not implement state of the art DNA modification so the champions gets their character permantly altered.. maybe something like a permanent hardwiring or attribute enhancement. or a combo of RL and ingame rewards i mean sports stars and E-sport stars gets RL rewards and cash for their achievements why shouldnt EVE stars be treated the same way after all CCP makes tons of cash why shouldnt our stars get soem piece of it?.. maybe a VIP trip to Iceland to see the ccp studio. these things wont alter the ingame balance.. sure it might hit the ccp wallet harder but damn in teh long run inbalance in teh game hits your wallets aswell..
Nyack GREY COUNCIL Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:19:00 - [69] another idea that is in teh glory and fame category.. why not make a new faction item or ship named after the team leader in the winning team. for example last tourny. TWD's modified skirmish warfare mindlink then give the winning alliance for example 40 of these or somethign then added that item to the LP store of the faction they compete for.. that way the whole alliance will benefit from it, if it is a gang module or implant. it doesnt need to be an uber mod it is more the naming of teh mod thats the point. and everyone will be able to get the item from lp store so no inbalance just thinking out loud..
R3dSh1ft Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.07.23 09:47:00 - [70] Yes its about glory and such - but what gave the last tournament its drama and appeal (when teams turned up at least) ? The fact that so many people were willing to put so much on the line and invest so much time and effort to win the tourney. Now why do you suppose that was? Why do you suppose anybody would care about a 'synthetic' event occuring in Polaris space that has absolutely no effect on the rest of the game whatsoever? Oh wait - because it DID... Can't have it both ways - huge prizes gives a great show, drama, tension, surprises. Crappy prize = crappy show. DKOD - an awesome synchronised killing machine
Neo Providence	Posted - 2007.07.23 14:37:00 - [71] well, i guess this is the downfall of eve. CCp can't think of anything else that would be worth while as prizes for the tourney. But i guess the LP would be worth it if it is given to any corp we wanted. I mean i wouldn't mind having them transfer to my minny corp. I would get my fraction bs so fast i would just die. lol
Ituralde Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.07.23 17:18:00 - [72] Originally by: Pilk EveTV is free for the tournament. And it's fine to say, "Fight for the honor, not for the prizes." But it's not okay to put that alongside the statement, "The last tournament's prizes were too large," when this tournament provides a concrete, reasonable, and RP-fulfilling way to counteract the stated problem. --P Valid point, though if you think about it for those who are interested in prizes, at the very least: ~500k lp for a 500-1bil ISK faction BS. Say 500 mil to be VERY conservative - there are implant offers that give more ISK/LP than this anyhow. That means at the very least 20bil worth of rewards to the top team. More likely, you are looking at 40-60 billion if using the right offers. Granted, it's still not as much as what the battleships went for, but it's still nothing to sneeze at. I honestly don't see what the issue is. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.07.23 19:08:00 - [73] Originally by: Ituralde Originally by: Pilk EveTV is free for the tournament. And it's fine to say, "Fight for the honor, not for the prizes." But it's not okay to put that alongside the statement, "The last tournament's prizes were too large," when this tournament provides a concrete, reasonable, and RP-fulfilling way to counteract the stated problem. --P Valid point, though if you think about it for those who are interested in prizes, at the very least: ~500k lp for a 500-1bil ISK faction BS. Say 500 mil to be VERY conservative - there are implant offers that give more ISK/LP than this anyhow. That means at the very least 20bil worth of rewards to the top team. More likely, you are looking at 40-60 billion if using the right offers. Granted, it's still not as much as what the battleships went for, but it's still nothing to sneeze at. I honestly don't see what the issue is. 40 of one faction BS appearing on the market would drive the price down considerably. Regardless, though, the point is that they've got a perfectly good market-centric approach to correcting their past mistake AND making a large number of tournament participants very happy, and instead they're giving us... LP's. Which, at the end of the day, most teams view as little more than a first-order derivative of isk (albeit, economically-speaking, more stable than simply injecting a bunch of isk into the game). --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Mitchman Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.07.24 06:01:00 - [74] It seems to me that the way points will get you the top 2 spots, we will see teams that have no chance to go on to the next round simply fold (like come in frigates or something) and be slaughtered, where the winners then get a 50% bonus and have an extra advantage. I'm pretty sure this will actually change the outcome of some groups, and it doesn't seem right. New video: Pride, Honor & Retribution
ookke Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.07.24 10:27:00 - [75] Originally by: Mitchman It seems to me that the way points will get you the top 2 spots, we will see teams that have no chance to go on to the next round simply fold (like come in frigates or something) and be slaughtered, where the winners then get a 50% bonus and have an extra advantage. I'm pretty sure this will actually change the outcome of some groups, and it doesn't seem right. There is a rule that says you have to field a minimum of 75 points anyway, and without rigs and cosmos I don't see a reason why people wouldn't put up a proper fight till the bitter end :) If people want to be lame or just manipulate brackets there isn't much you can do about it anyway, even with 3p/1p/0p scoring a 6-0 intentionally forfeited match can change it(see IAC @ second tourney, even tho it kind of failed :p)
Xaeon Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.26 15:36:00 - [76] Should be interesting Chapter VII 23/06/07
BluOrange Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.07.27 11:37:00 - [77] Originally by: Pilk And it's fine to say, "Fight for the honor, not for the prizes." But it's not okay to put that alongside the statement, "The last tournament's prizes were too large," when this tournament provides a concrete, reasonable, and RP-fulfilling way to counteract the stated problem. --P /signed. However, the rules are final now, and as much as I would like them to be different, the only thing we can do now is to sign up, or not sign up. Personally, the process of watching the communications from players and the lack of response from organizers has been extremely frustrating, and has drained most of my motivation. Recruitment FAQ
Bruno Bonner Gallente Lutin Group	Posted - 2007.07.27 17:10:00 - [78] You know, being a RPer myself and seeing how the tournament rules changed to provide variation and crazy tactics i can say only one thing. Each of the factions should give regular faction ships if you champion for them rather than just LP. A set (3 of each?) of Navy Mega, Navy Vexor and Navy Comet for gallente A set of Hobkill, Navy Caracal and Navy Raven... and so on. At least those ships are valuable, can be used in PvP and constitute an acceptable reward for both PvPers and PvErs....however the very Unique ships that everyone wishes to have could be awarded to MVPs of each faction, someone who did the most points while championing for their empires. So CCP don't give away 400 gazillion and make it unbalanced. One silver magnate? One Guardian-Vexor? One Imperial Apoc? just three categories and elected by point system (most damage done, most assists, etc, etc). regards Bruno ------ aka BinderAJ
Zaethiel Murder-Death-Kill Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.07.27 20:09:00 - [79] Originally by: Bruno Bonner You know, being a RPer myself and seeing how the tournament rules changed to provide variation and crazy tactics i can say only one thing. Each of the factions should give regular faction ships if you champion for them rather than just LP. A set (3 of each?) of Navy Mega, Navy Vexor and Navy Comet for gallente A set of Hobkill, Navy Caracal and Navy Raven... and so on. At least those ships are valuable, can be used in PvP and constitute an acceptable reward for both PvPers and PvErs....however the very Unique ships that everyone wishes to have could be awarded to MVPs of each faction, someone who did the most points while championing for their empires. So CCP don't give away 400 gazillion and make it unbalanced. One silver magnate? One Guardian-Vexor? One Imperial Apoc? just three categories and elected by point system (most damage done, most assists, etc, etc). regards Bruno I kinda like the idea of getting LP + a Faction BS, Cruiser, and frig for First followed by Second getting a Faction BS + LP and Third getting LP and a faction Frig _________________________________________
Vek Sleqis	Posted - 2007.07.27 20:10:00 - [80] Overall good job but.... Change the damn prizes for christs sake The proposed prizes are totally uninspiring and bear no resembalance to last years in monetary (isk) terms. It would be such a shame to see 'THE' main in game event in Eve be spoilt by crappy prizes that are inappropriate for PvP tournament, Listen to the people CCP...
illusionary beauty Raid Industries	Posted - 2007.07.28 12:52:00 - [81] Edited by: illusionary beauty on 28/07/2007 12:52:56 Originally by: Vek Sleqis Overall good job but.... Change the damn prizes for christs sake The proposed prizes are totally uninspiring and bear no resembalance to last years in monetary (isk) terms. It would be such a shame to see 'THE' main in game event in Eve be spoilt by crappy prizes that are inappropriate for PvP tournament, Listen to the people CCP... They could always give out real prizes too. Years Subscription to Eve RL Money?
Anator Namon	Posted - 2007.07.31 20:36:00 - [82] Edited by: Anator Namon on 31/07/2007 20:39:01 Since they are focusing on the effect of alliances, why not this: Can choose to champion a faction (the standings reward for the alliance). Can choose (a possibly seperate faction) to construct faction capital ships (mothership worth 3 points, carrier and dread each other 1 point) (first place gets 3 points, second gets 2 points, third gets 1 point). These will be standard faction ships... not super ships (think navyapoc or the like, not the corvus). Also, just having 1-3 ships means that the alliance won't be likely to sell them, for one case players wouldn't be able to afford them! Also, this will add faction capitals to the game, which would be cool.
Weeka Amarr Krieger des Lichts	Posted - 2007.08.01 12:50:00 - [83] Originally by: Anator Namon Also, this will add faction capitals to the game, which would be cool. Quite as cool as training amarr dreadnought as well as minmatar dreadnought, along with amarr BS V and minmatar BS V Next.
Anator Namon	Posted - 2007.08.01 16:26:00 - [84] Edited by: Anator Namon on 01/08/2007 16:34:27 You know that someone does.. and that people dream of such a ship. Also, there will be a much much more limited subset of people who can afford the price and have the skills, so the ships will be less like money and more like a status symbol. Actually, might as well leave the LP reward in, but add faction capital BPCs in to the LP rewards store. I mean, a dread is like 10x the cost of a BS, so make it so that the BPC for a dread is 8m LP + 1b ISK. I mean, in Battleship, Cruiser, and Frigate combat there is the allowance for style. Capital combat is well developed (with blobs of capitals being seen), yet no style is allowed. I mean, who wouldn't want a Navy Revelation?
ElCoCo KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.01 20:26:00 - [85] Originally by: Weeka Originally by: Anator Namon Also, this will add faction capitals to the game, which would be cool. Quite as cool as training amarr dreadnought as well as minmatar dreadnought, along with amarr BS V and minmatar BS V Next. You'd be surprised
Trevedian Amarr KR0M The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.08.02 14:53:00 - [86] Why was this thread unstickied? The Rules should be easily accessible if you want people to participate. Sex0r > you're bounty turns me on.. you seem like the kind of amarrian to dominate me

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.03 13:30:00 - [87] Originally by: Trevedian Why was this thread unstickied? The Rules should be easily accessible if you want people to participate. Stickied again.

Peri Stark Gallente Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.08.05 09:54:00 - [88] I liked the idea that if you stuck it out and fought all your fights you got some prize or recognition. With the event set up this way unless you think you have a shot at being in the top 3 then why bother? ================================================ Just because your paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!
Nubiam Caldari Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:59:00 - [89] Will the changes for Nos and Khanid be in place for the tournament or is this being fought under "current" build? N-

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.05 21:01:00 - [90] Originally by: Nubiam Will the changes for Nos and Khanid be in place for the tournament or is this being fought under "current" build? N- Revelations 2.2 will be deployed a few days before the event so yes, the nos changes and Khanid will be in place.

DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.08.06 01:51:00 - [91] I have noticed that faction mods are not allowed, however I cannot find anything about faction ammo, seeing as how ammo is not a mod, what is the rule on this? Or if I have missed it somewhere someone please update me

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.06 03:19:00 - [92] Originally by: DHB WildCat I have noticed that faction mods are not allowed, however I cannot find anything about faction ammo, seeing as how ammo is not a mod, what is the rule on this? Or if I have missed it somewhere someone please update me Faction ammo is allowed.

Cividari Caldari Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.07 15:26:00 - [93] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: DHB WildCat I have noticed that faction mods are not allowed, however I cannot find anything about faction ammo, seeing as how ammo is not a mod, what is the rule on this? Or if I have missed it somewhere someone please update me Faction ammo is allowed. Any special reason why you couldnt have answered that about one month ago when I asked the exact same question in this thread? Quoting myself since I still want to know about my other questions. Originally by: Cividari Ive got a couple of simple yes/no questions. Is faction ammo allowed? If TeamA starts with 99 points used and TeamB starts with 100 points used, does that mean TeamB has allready "killed" ships worth 1 point? Lets say TeamA kills half of TeamB for 50 points but TeamB kills all of TeamA for a full 150 points. Even though TeamB wins does TeamA still get 50 points?
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.08.07 16:40:00 - [94] lol, civi because every time I post something on EVE -O a red flag gets sent to someone and they have to check it out ASAP 8)

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.07 19:51:00 - [95] Originally by: DHB WildCat Edited by: DHB WildCat on 07/08/2007 17:06:24 lol, civi because every time I post something on EVE -O a red flag gets sent to someone and they have to check it out ASAP 8) and yes could you please answer Civi's questions? Ive got a couple of simple yes/no questions. Is faction ammo allowed? If TeamA starts with 99 points used and TeamB starts with 100 points used, does that mean TeamB has allready "killed" ships worth 1 point? Lets say TeamA kills half of TeamB for 50 points but TeamB kills all of TeamA for a full 150 points. Even though TeamB wins does TeamA still get 50 points? I just received the red flag telling me that DHB WildCat posted on EVE -O!!! Here are the answers. 1. Yes, faction ammo is allowed. 2. Yes, TeamB will begin with 1 point scored in this example. 3. Yes, TeamA still gets to keep the 50 points they scored in the fight.

Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.08 06:56:00 - [96] Why isn't pod killing allowed? Full pirate slaves only widen the gap between big alliances and small alliances and base the tourney more on isk invested then skill. Combine that with the rewards and we should just rename it to "The PvP Stock Market". ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
ookke	Posted - 2007.08.08 09:53:00 - [97] Originally by: Popsikle Why isn't pod killing allowed? Full pirate slaves only widen the gap between big alliances and small alliances and base the tourney more on isk invested then skill. Combine that with the rewards and we should just rename it to "The PvP Stock Market". Your logic is flawed, and this argument has been had many times over previously in the thread, no need to bring it up again.
ookke	Posted - 2007.08.08 09:54:00 - [98] Edited by: ookke on 08/08/2007 09:56:05 hell, I'll even try to explain it to you. a) podding allowed BOB/any other serious alliance: all HG sets, because they can afford to replace them till the end of time if needed. random crappy RP alliance: lg sets, scared ****less of getting podded. b) podding not allowed BOB/any other serious alliance: all HG sets, alliance sponsored. random crappy RP alliance: lg/hg sets, according to what people can afford. No risk to get podded so bring the best you can get. How exactly did dis-allowing podding make it worse for the random crappy rp alliance?
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.08 13:35:00 - [99] Originally by: ookke Edited by: ookke on 08/08/2007 09:56:05 hell, I'll even try to explain it to you. a) podding allowed BOB/any other serious alliance: all HG sets, because they can afford to replace them till the end of time if needed. random crappy RP alliance: lg sets, scared ****less of getting podded. b) podding not allowed BOB/any other serious alliance: all HG sets, alliance sponsored. random crappy RP alliance: lg/hg sets, according to what people can afford. No risk to get podded so bring the best you can get. How exactly did dis-allowing podding make it worse for the random crappy rp alliance? Its PVP. Only undock with what you can afford to lose, and take your "crappy rp alliance" smack elsewhere, alt. ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
ookke	Posted - 2007.08.08 14:52:00 - [100] Originally by: Popsikle Its PVP. Only undock with what you can afford to lose, and take your "crappy rp alliance" smack elsewhere, alt. You must be horribly mistaken, the alliance tournament has always been far far away from actual tranquility PVP, and I don't see a need for this to change this year either. "Bring only what you can afford to lose" doesn't make sense when the big boys will all be able to lose hg sets while our "crappy random rp alliance" example probably can't, especially not when they get podded many times over. PS. You really hurt my feelings by calling me an alt :(
Templayer Amarr Monks of War United Legion	Posted - 2007.08.08 15:27:00 - [101] Edited by: Templayer on 08/08/2007 15:27:40 Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: DHB WildCat Edited by: DHB WildCat on 07/08/2007 17:06:24 lol, civi because every time I post something on EVE -O a red flag gets sent to someone and they have to check it out ASAP 8) and yes could you please answer Civi's questions? Ive got a couple of simple yes/no questions. Is faction ammo allowed? If TeamA starts with 99 points used and TeamB starts with 100 points used, does that mean TeamB has allready "killed" ships worth 1 point? Lets say TeamA kills half of TeamB for 50 points but TeamB kills all of TeamA for a full 150 points. Even though TeamB wins does TeamA still get 50 points? I just received the red flag telling me that DHB WildCat posted on EVE -O!!! Here are the answers. 1. Yes, faction ammo is allowed. 2. Yes, TeamB will begin with 1 point scored in this example. 3. Yes, TeamA still gets to keep the 50 points they scored in the fight. How do you pay entrance fee? I've singed,what next? Any guide for NoobieS? :D
jamesw Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.08.08 17:43:00 - [102] Originally by: Popsikle Originally by: ookke Edited by: ookke on 08/08/2007 09:56:05 hell, I'll even try to explain it to you. a) podding allowed BOB/any other serious alliance: all HG sets, because they can afford to replace them till the end of time if needed. random crappy RP alliance: lg sets, scared **less of getting podded. b) podding not allowed BOB/any other serious alliance: all HG sets, alliance sponsored. random crappy RP alliance: lg/hg sets, according to what people can afford. No risk to get podded so bring the best you can get. How exactly did dis-allowing podding make it worse for the random crappy rp alliance? Its PVP. Only undock with what you can afford to lose, and take your "crappy rp alliance" smack elsewhere, alt. Read this. Then call him an alt again. -- Latest** Vid: Domination!
Masu'di Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.08 18:22:00 - [103] call me Mr Cynical, but not having the Thukker Tribe, Khanid, Syndicate etc to champion was a forgone conclusion. Es and Whizz is recruiting
Popsikle Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.08.09 00:28:00 - [104] Originally by: ookke Originally by: Popsikle Its PVP. Only undock with what you can afford to lose, and take your "crappy rp alliance" smack elsewhere, alt. You must be horribly mistaken, the alliance tournament has always been far far away from actual tranquility PVP, and I don't see a need for this to change this year either. "Bring only what you can afford to lose" doesn't make sense when the big boys will all be able to lose hg sets while our "crappy random rp alliance" example probably can't, especially not when they get podded many times over. PS. You really hurt my feelings by calling me an alt :( This thread is in "EveTV and the PvP Championships" section however, so I kinda figured the Championships would be based on real PvP ;p Sorry about the alt thing, im used to CAOD/IGS where people need their tickers! ____ <t20> i want to be in a manager potition at Hooters <SaraDawn> Garthagk, do you have it up ? <Garthagk> I can get it up anytime.
Stoned Badger	Posted - 2007.08.09 01:06:00 - [105] sorry my maths/ brain power isnt great.. if somone has say.. 7.0 standing to caldai.. and they set their chosen faction to caldari and get the "30%" standing boost. Will this boost put them to 10.0 or will it give them "30% of the difference between 7.0 and 10.0" ?
Kunming The Coalition Of Buccaneers Mercenary Services	Posted - 2007.08.09 01:20:00 - [106] You dont need trillions of ISK like BoB to achieve something in this tournament, as far as I can see almost everything is allowed so just use your brain, btw the only difference from real pvp is that you dont fit a warp scrambler... FYI, me and my alliance is poor as hell before u ask. But we will beat everyone out there if we can gather up the 1bil entry fee Quote: READ THIS NEXT PART CAREFULLY AS IT IS VERY IMPORTANT AND POSTING A REPLY WITHOUT READING IT MAY RESULT IN YOU LOOKING STUPID.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.09 03:00:00 - [107] Originally by: Kunming btw the only difference from real pvp is that you dont fit a warp scrambler... Or rigs. But you are allowed to spend billions on HG pirate sets that aren't available to every team involved.. Logic's great, isn't it?
StarLite Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.09 08:57:00 - [108] I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc. What reason is there to disallow them? _______________________________________________________________________ This sig is guarded by SigGuard(c)
Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.08.09 18:12:00 - [109] Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc. What reason is there to disallow them? GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer.

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.09 20:19:00 - [110] Originally by: Sli'co Scoser Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc. What reason is there to disallow them? GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer. Here is the main reason for allowing implants: Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney. I hope you understand this from our perspective.


GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.09 20:20:00 - [111] Originally by: Kunming You dont need trillions of ISK like BoB to achieve something in this tournament, as far as I can see almost everything is allowed so just use your brain, btw the only difference from real pvp is that you dont fit a warp scrambler... FYI, me and my alliance is poor as hell before u ask. But we will beat everyone out there if we can gather up the 1bil entry fee Come on guys, help them out.

Sli'co Scoser Gallente World Order The Imperial Order	Posted - 2007.08.09 20:54:00 - [112] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Sli'co Scoser Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc. What reason is there to disallow them? GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer. Here is the main reason for allowing implants: Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney. I hope you understand this from our perspective. But from that perspective as well, what if you want to bring a faction battleship that currently has expensive (T2) rigs on it? Now you would have to either destroy the rigs or go out and buy an identical ship without rigs to use instead of the one with rigs on it.

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:11:00 - [113] Originally by: Sli'co Scoser But from that perspective as well, what if you want to bring a faction battleship that currently has expensive (T2) rigs on it? Now you would have to either destroy the rigs or go out and buy an identical ship without rigs to use instead of the one with rigs on it. You know these are not remotely identical situations. You don't HAVE to bring that ship. On the other hand, with only one clone, you HAVE to bring your current body.

Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:17:00 - [114] Originally by: GM Nova I hope you understand this from our perspective. No, actually, I don't. Jump clones are incredibly easy to get. To say that the majority of pilots have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, while the majority of pilots don't have jumpclones is nothing short of moronic.

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:54:00 - [115] Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: GM Nova I hope you understand this from our perspective. No, actually, I don't. Jump clones are incredibly easy to get. To say that the majority of pilots have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, while the majority of pilots don't have jumpclones is nothing short of moronic. There is no need to be rude. I never said that majority of players have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, you did. You say that jump clones are incredibly easy to get but that may apply to you but not to some. Since this tournament is not about you my argument stands.

Hukiraman	Posted - 2007.08.09 23:11:00 - [116] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Elmicker Originally by: GM Nova I hope you understand this from our perspective. No, actually, I don't. Jump clones are incredibly easy to get. To say that the majority of pilots have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, while the majority of pilots don't have jumpclones is nothing short of moronic. There is no need to be rude. I never said that majority of players have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, you did. You say that jump clones are incredibly easy to get but that may apply to you but not to some. Since this tournament is not about you my argument stands.
Big Al The Aftermath	Posted - 2007.08.09 23:17:00 - [117] Originally by: GM Nova There is no need to be rude. I never said that majority of players have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, you did. You say that jump clones are incredibly easy to get but that may apply to you but not to some. Since this tournament is not about you my argument stands. WTB someone who actually plays the game to make up the rules next time Anyone that rolls with pirate implants either has jump clones, or is already too rich for their own good. Only these 2 categories can afford to engage in any sort of fleet engagement (this is the ALLIANCE tournament afterall) with the current state of your servers.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.09 23:27:00 - [118] Edited by: Elmicker on 09/08/2007 23:28:55 Originally by: GM Nova There is no need to be rude. I never said that majority of players have access to pirate implants worth 10s of billions, you did. You said that most of the pilots will have implants. Since the discussion was in specific reference to the pirate implant sets it was logical to assume that was what you were talking about. And trust me, calling your comments moronic was far from rude. If you think that my comments on the situation were "rude", you seriously need to venture out into the greater eve community some time and see what others have written about this farce. Quote: You say that jump clones are incredibly easy to get but that may apply to you but not to some. This is an alliance tournament. All but one or two of those alliances will own their own outposts, thus have access to free and plentiful jump clones (limited only by the skill). Those alliances who do not own outposts are more than likely resourceful enough to gain standings with an entity for long enough to make sure their implant sets are safe. Or, you know, CCP could provide temporary jump clones in jove space. God forbid you actually help the competitors to make this a more entertaining and fun tournament . Quote: Since this tournament is not about you my argument stands. I'm sorry? What has that got to do with anything? Your logic is flawed, and mine is correct. The fact that FreeFall does not (currently)have a team entered into the contest should have no bearing whatsoever on the issue. You claim that JCs are unavailable to certain pilots, and you are wrong.
QwaarJet Gallente hirr Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.10 05:16:00 - [119] Once again we bare witness to Nova's crazy man logic. How in the hell is it easier to get implants than jump clones? You say this is about the alliances, but if your an alliance without a station, then you aren't much of Alliance. Jump clones are cheap to get, easy to train for and should be accessible for most alliances. Implants on the other hand, cost a large sum of money, and i'm willing to bet more alliances can use jump clones than buy sets of expensive implants. Frankly though, i'm sick or arguing about every point of this tournament, because obviously you think you know better than everyone else here, and thus are ignoring pilot's views on this. So essentially it is a waste of my time telling you what's wrong with this tournament, since you'll ignore it anyway.
Zuquar Bonaparte	Posted - 2007.08.10 15:44:00 - [120] Originally by: Ifni Originally by: Vladimir Tinakin Having never participated in a tournament play in eve before, a few questions spring to mind... 1) The people are fixed for the tournament for each team, correct? Can't add or substitute anyone per match (keeping in mind the 100 pt hull limit) Once the match starts those on the field are the team for that fight. Under the new rules, you can swap out any member or members of your team for another alliance pilot, as long as the pilot was a member of the alliance at the time your alliance signed up to the tournament. hi i just need clarification pls. does the pilot need to be member when we signed up or as the rules state , when the fight takes place?
DamienUPB Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.10 18:00:00 - [121] This is funny. Attacking ccp over rewards for the tourney. Take them out completely if you want. We'd like a reward but we want to do this more for PR for the alliance and to do it for fun. If your in it for the isk value of the reward it's rather sad. Do it to do it and be able to say that was me or my alliance. As for the rules we all have to abide by them. Some have more money to blow then others but such is life. Be the underdog and beat them with less and have pride. Our alliance deals in boosters and you don't see us complaining about the choice on that rule.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.10 22:55:00 - [122] You know I pointed out how stupid and abusable these rules were at least four times already and I'm not going to bother with it again.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.11 01:03:00 - [123] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Sli'co Scoser Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc. What reason is there to disallow them? GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer. Here is the main reason for allowing implants: Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney. I hope you understand this from our perspective. no?
Ophichius Es and Whizz	Posted - 2007.08.11 06:52:00 - [124] Will there be post-combat looting of wreckage allowed? In addition, about the tournament prize, I have only this to say: Needs more exotic dancers. (T2 exotic dancers anyone?) -O
Zuquar Bonaparte	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:27:00 - [125] Originally by: d026 Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Sli'co Scoser Originally by: StarLite I think it's a bit strange rigs are not allowed, their widely available, quote affordable, can fit on every ship, are not imbalanced etc. What reason is there to disallow them? GM Nova stated that "it would make tanking too effective" which of course makes perfect sense when they allow pirate implants that provide supertanking beyond what most rig combinations can offer. Here is the main reason for allowing implants: Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney. I hope you understand this from our perspective. no? cant understand that part either, seing that about every alliance probable has a char in there alliance that could make a corp for the day and have standings to make j/c . it favours lrg alliances that has the funds to outfit there teams with the best and most expencive implants. j/c,s are cheap , easy to get and is not the trouble to achieve as u make it. also if ccp can move us the day the matches takes place, then im sure it cant be such a big problem for ccp to ask ppl to have the skills for a j/c to enter the tournament, and then give them 1 for the day? apart from that id like to say , its so sad to see how ppl are *****ing about the prizes, this is for hounor and glory, then again maybe these ppl need it to pay for those expencive implants. if u dont like it then dont play, u read the rules b4 signing up. zuq
Jasmine Constantine Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:54:00 - [126] 1. I can't believe there are more than a tiny majority of people entering characters into this tournament who don't have access to jump clones. 2. I simply don't believe there are ANY pilots with Pirate Implant sets entering this tournament who don't have access to jump clones. Hence the argument that banning implants would force people to damage their normal manner of gameplay is somewhat void. (and it in no-way explains why we aren't allowed to use rigs) Star Fraction is recruiting
Ladel Teravada Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:08:00 - [127] Here's a first. I agree with Jasmine. Commodore Ladel Teravada Executive Officer, Fleet Operations
DHB WildCat BURN EDEN Terra Incognita.	Posted - 2007.08.11 15:14:00 - [128] Edited by: DHB WildCat on 11/08/2007 15:15:19 Guys in all seriousness stop. Im sorry but I've been fighting to get changes and have offered good alternatives and reasons to why they need to be made. However no matter how much you will argue or explain your reasoning you will not get them to alter thier point of view. They believe they know everything there is to know about every single alliance and how the game is in general. You cannot hope to change thier POV. My suggestion is to just do the thing, then when its over pray they get a committee of players to set the rules for the next one. Oh and to Jame's reply since he cant help but smack my every post.... stfu. Edit for spelling
Twisted Joe	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:44:00 - [129] Edited by: Twisted Joe on 12/08/2007 19:46:13 Edited by: Twisted Joe on 12/08/2007 19:44:57 Here is my tuppence worth. Hold the tourney on the test server. That way all rather than a few have access to all implants. No Alliance has any advantage over the others, except in terms of the relevant skill base - if u can't USE a Snake Omega then the point is moot anyway. The Alliance's playing the tournament have to supply a set of roster of say 10 pilots and 10 reserves, who's toons are updated at midnight evetime on the SiSi server - so special factional ships not necessarily available on SiSi in the market that pilots wish to fly are imported, and as well as faction ammo supplies, so they are on the test server at the beginning of that day and can be set up accordingly. Rather than overpowering a limited few who can afford complete HG implant sets, this balances everybody on the same playing field, due the low cost of all items on SiSi. It also potentially makes the playing arena more stable due to it running on a much smaller server and a lot fewer pilots. Rewards are given out on the normal server and the 'copy' of a pilot that is on the test server is updated when needed - and left to be copied over on the future after the tourney is over Rigs are another issue to implants altogether, and personally feel that as long as there is a rule that everybody is capable of following then it does not matter a great deal.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:48:00 - [130] Originally by: DHB WildCat Edited by: DHB WildCat on 11/08/2007 17:39:25 Edited by: DHB WildCat on 11/08/2007 15:15:19 Guys in all seriousness stop. Im sorry but I've been fighting to get changes and have offered good alternatives and reasons to why they need to be made. However no matter how much you will argue or explain your reasoning you will not get them to alter thier point of view. They believe they know everything there is to know about every single alliance and how the game is in general. You cannot hope to change thier POV. My suggestion is to just do the thing, then when its over pray they get a committee of players to set the rules for the next one. 8) Edit for spelling The already-existing committee says hi, and asks if anyone can please send a liferaft, or at least some food, to the island on which we've been marooned for half a year. We're starving. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.13 02:15:00 - [131] So i take it we're getting no further explanation/admissal/apology/refutation of the useless logic used to set out this year's rules? I'll be totally honest here. I can see a widespread boycott happening next time if it carries on then in the same way it has here. I wouldn't be surprised if the only reason many teams are competing this time is simply because they've invested 6 months of training and preparation that they don't want to be a total waste.
Aurious	Posted - 2007.08.13 23:49:00 - [132] Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Sli'co Scoser But from that perspective as well, what if you want to bring a faction battleship that currently has expensive (T2) rigs on it? Now you would have to either destroy the rigs or go out and buy an identical ship without rigs to use instead of the one with rigs on it. You know these are not remotely identical situations. You don't HAVE to bring that ship. On the other hand, with only one clone, you HAVE to bring your current body. Your reasoning fails tbh. You dont HAVE to you use that pilot. You dont HAVE to enter at all.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.14 03:50:00 - [133] Originally by: Aurious Originally by: GM Nova Originally by: Sli'co Scoser But from that perspective as well, what if you want to bring a faction battleship that currently has expensive (T2) rigs on it? Now you would have to either destroy the rigs or go out and buy an identical ship without rigs to use instead of the one with rigs on it. You know these are not remotely identical situations. You don't HAVE to bring that ship. On the other hand, with only one clone, you HAVE to bring your current body. Your reasoning fails tbh. You dont HAVE to you use that pilot. You dont HAVE to enter at all. Okay, this seems to have generated some controversy, considering it was the topic of a conversation in Jita Local, of all places, earlier today. There are two statements involved: 1) All pilots have the FUNDAMENTAL ability to change ships at will, and lose nothing by doing so (even true for mothership/titan pilots, if considered in a vacuum, but that's a bit of a corner case, anyway). 2) All pilots have the innate ability to change implant sets around (or to forgo implants entirely) by destroying their old implants. 2a) Jumpclones (largely) negate this, but pilots do not INHERENTLY possess the capability to create jumpclones. 2aa) Even if they did, or if you argue it's sufficiently cheap to get jumpclones that it shouldn't matter, pilots cannot necessarily have an implant-free jumpclone available for the tournament without destroying existing implants. CCP is working off of the goal that pilots should not lose anything other than what they choose to undock* in. As soon as you force someone to destroy implants in order to participate in the tournament, you've failed this requirement. And, before someone says it couldn't happen, I know of one tournament participant whose jump clones consist of two +5 sets (one in his active clone), a Slave set, a Snake set, a Crystal set, and a +4 "suicide ops" set (with 5% hardwirings). Yes, I hate him too. Now, do I agree with this ruling? I'd have to think about it some more. For the time being, it exists by fiat, and I'm planning my tournament strategy accordingly. But those attacking it as illogical need to try to see it from Nova's perspective. --P : Slight lie; you don't undock in the ship, you get /tr'd straight from the station to space. Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.*
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.14 03:53:00 - [134] Originally by: Ophichius Will there be post-combat looting of wreckage allowed? Last tournament, you could loot as long as the match was still ongoing. This led to some boring matches on EveTV where the team left a single enemy ship alive (often even remote-repping it!) long enough to loot all the other wrecks. I'd strongly suggest a rules change allowing a few minutes after the match to loot cans (first come, first served) to forestall this unappetizing display. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.15 02:44:00 - [135] Ok I have a question for GM Nova so we have our brackets of four teams. Lets call them alliances A, B, C, and D. Now lets say that alliances A, B, and C are all real buddy buddy and hate Alliance D, and that Alliance D stands a real good chance on winning the whole thing on their own. So lets say alliances A, B, and C are all talking and stuff comes up and everyone agrees on it. So lets call the first matchup A versus B. Lets say both of them bring eight caracals each with identical characters that were all started at the same time explicitly for this tournament a week or so prior. So we have sixteen identical ships and pilots on the field. Now lets say they go fight and seven people on each team get killed. And then the last two are exchanging missiles at standoff range and both die simultaneously. In this case both teams would be awarded 150 points, yes? Well then we move to Teams C and D fighting and Team C just brought a pile of remote repping ships that really can't be stopped but have laughably little in the way of firepower and are only there to keep team D from blowing up ships and scoring points. around this time Alliances A and B send a couple billion isk to alliance C and they all kinda laugh for a bit. At the end of C and D's fight very little has been accomplished so alliance C has 20 points and alliance D has 35 points. So alliances A and B advance to the next round. \ I guess my question is how could you people be so incompetent as to leave this loophole in the rules despite the fact that I pointed it out several times, at least once specifically to you, GM Nova

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:15:00 - [136] Originally by: Alias11 Ok I have a question for GM Nova so we have our brackets of four teams. Lets call them alliances A, B, C, and D. Now lets say that alliances A, B, and C are all real buddy buddy and hate Alliance D, and that Alliance D stands a real good chance on winning the whole thing on their own. So lets say alliances A, B, and C are all talking and stuff comes up and everyone agrees on it. So lets call the first matchup A versus B. Lets say both of them bring eight caracals each with identical characters that were all started at the same time explicitly for this tournament a week or so prior. So we have sixteen identical ships and pilots on the field. Now lets say they go fight and seven people on each team get killed. And then the last two are exchanging missiles at standoff range and both die simultaneously. In this case both teams would be awarded 150 points, yes? Well then we move to Teams C and D fighting and Team C just brought a pile of remote repping ships that really can't be stopped but have laughably little in the way of firepower and are only there to keep team D from blowing up ships and scoring points. around this time Alliances A and B send a couple billion isk to alliance C and they all kinda laugh for a bit. At the end of C and D's fight very little has been accomplished so alliance C has 20 points and alliance D has 35 points. So alliances A and B advance to the next round. \ I guess my question is how could you people be so incompetent as to leave this loophole in the rules despite the fact that I pointed it out several times, at least once specifically to you, GM Nova Wow, that's quite a loophole. Let's see... There will actually be five teams in each bracket, not four. For a draw, you will not receive the win bonus. Does the "loophole" still apply? If so, how likely is this? Seriously. Anyone care to calculate the odds? Would you care to tell me how exactly we could prevent anyone from taking a fall for money? Is Pro Wrestling real?

Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.15 23:15:00 - [137] Edited by: Alias11 on 15/08/2007 23:20:29 Originally by: GM Nova Wow, that's quite a loophole. Let's see... (a)There will actually be five teams in each bracket, not four. (b)For a draw, you will not receive the win bonus. Does the "loophole" still apply? (c)If so, how likely is this? Seriously. Anyone care to calculate the odds? Would you care to tell me how exactly we could prevent anyone from taking a fall for money? Is Pro Wrestling real? (a) Originally by: GM Nova Rules 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 32 teams. (b) Add a throwaway frigate to team A in the match, it is the last one standing, Team A gets 150 points, Team B, having destroyed everything but the frigate, gets 97 points. You know what, lets simplify it, lets take out team C from the equation, so A and B are buddies who both want to go ahead, and C and D are completely unrelated to the event, they're just here for pew pew. So because A and B have collaborated together, we now have team A automatically going ahead and team C or D must destroy the entirety of the enemy team to advance. (c) As for the odds, I'd say the odds of this sort of thing happening are right about the odds of two teams who are friends going up against eachother in the first round.
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.16 03:57:00 - [138] Originally by: Alias11 (a) Originally by: GM Nova Rules 1. This is a bracket tournament with eight brackets, four teams in each bracket, for a total number of 32 teams. That rule has been changed. There are 40 teams in the tournament now. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Alias11 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.16 05:14:00 - [139] you know I can't help but think that's be a good thing to update the stickied thread posted by the organizer called "Alliance Tournament Rules - Final" about. That really does nothing to my point. The fact remains that two teams can collaborate to severely hamper a third teams chances of winning by rigging a match that has nothing to do with the third team whatsoever
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.16 13:23:00 - [140] Since you asked for odds, the odds, in a 40-team tournament with 5-team brackets, that your buddy will share your bracket are simply 4 (the number of slots remaining in your bracket, after you're assigned to it)/39 (the number of slots remaining, period), or 10.26%. Obviously, the more buddies you have, the higher the odds. That said, I'm of the opinion that, given that Eve allows ultra-capitalist competition in many other areas of the game, if I want to spend 40b (+alliance reg fees, if needed) to win this tournament (which, let's face it, is the final tally for a guaranteed win), I should be allowed to do so. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
ookke	Posted - 2007.08.16 15:45:00 - [141] Originally by: Alias11 you know I can't help but think that's be a good thing to update the stickied thread posted by the organizer called "Alliance Tournament Rules - Final" about. That really does nothing to my point. The fact remains that two teams can collaborate to severely hamper a third teams chances of winning by rigging a match that has nothing to do with the third team whatsoever It has always been like this, nothing in particular to do with these rules.
NereSky Gallente Domination. KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.24 07:08:00 - [142] I think the prizes are great tbh , mirrored to the game design well with a lot of time and thought put into them, After all this is a tourney to promote interaction between players and Alliances not to appease greed, to have a medal pinned to your Char' in the future is a fantastic idea :) N1
Yokan Daifuku Gallente The Flaming Sideburn's Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.24 21:03:00 - [143] Will there be a visible timer to the combatants? ---- Yo-con Die-foo-koo

EVETV spiralJunkie	Posted - 2007.08.24 22:28:00 - [144] Originally by: Alias11 you know I can't help but think that's be a good thing to update the stickied thread posted by the organizer called "Alliance Tournament Rules - Final" about. That really does nothing to my point. The fact remains that two teams can collaborate to severely hamper a third teams chances of winning by rigging a match that has nothing to do with the third team whatsoever such is life. People throw matches (hi Tyrrax) and people get upset. _

Yorick Downe	Posted - 2007.08.26 03:32:00 - [145] Trying to wrap my head around one of the rules: "7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her ship will be destroyed." -- Is that to be taken literally? A ship that tries to snipe at range and ABs away from others and gets to 125.1km off the beacon and thus "leaves the arena", as the arena is 125km radius around the beacon, will go up in flames? That'd lead to some interesting accidental deaths, potentially. I personally wouldn't have issue with that literal an interpretation, nor with a less literal interpretation. I'd like to know, though. It's good to be alive. As for the JC discussion - it is what it is, maybe it'll be different next year. JCs are, however, currently available to all for a 100k fee in EC-P8R, courtesy of the alliance holding the outpost there. So, they are potentially available to any pilot, though, this being EC-P8R, having a scout before jumping into system is advised.
ookke	Posted - 2007.08.26 14:47:00 - [146] Originally by: Yorick Downe Trying to wrap my head around one of the rules: "7. If a player warps out/leaves the arena, His/her ship will be destroyed." -- Is that to be taken literally? A ship that tries to snipe at range and ABs away from others and gets to 125.1km off the beacon and thus "leaves the arena", as the arena is 125km radius around the beacon, will go up in flames? That'd lead to some interesting accidental deaths, potentially.[/br] You obviously didn't watch EVE TV last tournament :P One match was down to Ishkur vs. Megathron. Thron was capped out and in structure and then the ishkur drifted a bit outside the arena and got heal zeroed, thron wins.
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 00:07:00 - [147] Originally by: Pilk Since you asked for odds, the odds, in a 40-team tournament with 5-team brackets, that your buddy will share your bracket are simply 4 (the number of slots remaining in your bracket, after you're assigned to it)/39 (the number of slots remaining, period), or 10.26%. Obviously, the more buddies you have, the higher the odds. Since the draws have been done now, it's worth pointing out, at first glance: Group A: Afermath Alliance and IAC are allies. Group F: MC and AXE are allies (I think). Group G: Atlas and R0ADKILL are friends. Could be more, but I'm too tired to call up every alliances political situation from my memory right now Not that I'm saying any of the above would ever dream of doing any such thing, just that the loophole would apply. And I'm of the opinion that, despite what the competitors would like to be able to do in this ultra-capitalistic world, it should be the Competition Organiser's job to make the rules as fool-proof as possible. And personally, I think the points-for-kills system is ridiculous. A win should be whoever holds the field at the end of the match, not who managed to grind enough kills. It's highly un-EVE-y. And it'll lead to some occasions where the team that it looks and feels like lost is walking away the winner- and thats never a good thing in a budding sport. I sincerely hope it does lead to some stupid results or trickery, since at least that way the next tournament might be arranged a little more sensibly... --------
JaegerX Quam Singulari M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.27 00:35:00 - [148] Originally by: Patch86 I sincerely hope it does lead to some stupid results or trickery, since at least that way the next tournament might be arranged a little more sensibly... ... or, at least that way, we won't think of you as a paranoid schizophrenic. Yay...
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 01:19:00 - [149] Originally by: JaegerX Originally by: Patch86 I sincerely hope it does lead to some stupid results or trickery, since at least that way the next tournament might be arranged a little more sensibly... ... or, at least that way, we won't think of you as a paranoid schizophrenic. Yay... This is also true, and a happy bonus. --------
Ladel Teravada Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.08.27 05:42:00 - [150] Originally by: Patch86 Since the draws have been done now, it's worth pointing out, at first glance: Group A: Aftermath Alliance and IAC are allies. Saaaaay what, what (in the butt)? Commodore Ladel Teravada Executive Officer, Fleet Operations
Abel Dusten Gallente Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 15:52:00 - [151] Edited by: Abel Dusten on 27/08/2007 15:53:01 Originally by: Patch86 Group A: Afermath Alliance and IAC are allies. Allies? pretty sure we'r not at least i din't get the memo. ----------
Interghast	Posted - 2007.08.27 16:57:00 - [152] The convoluted reasoning behind allowing any implants while banning rigs is hilarious Lets look at some of the + and - points Rigs - Allow uber tanks and potentially create boring matches + cheap to buy / make - Lost with the ship - need to train a rank 2 skill and then rank 3 skills depending on rig type Implants - Allow uber tanks and potentially create boring matches - expensive to buy - lost when podded (irrelevent in this tournie, I know :P) - Is a rank 3 skill so to use the HG sets takes weeks of training Jumpclones + Allow you to have multiple clones with different implants + cheap to get (100k isk or so from a friendly station) + Easy to train due to being a rank 1 skill (under 15 mins for level 1) - Need NPC standing if you can't use one of the public outpost services So Quote: Here is the main reason for allowing implants: Majoroty of pilots have implants, while only a portion of those that do have jumpclones. If we were to prohibit implants we would be forcing players to either get a jumpclone or in cases where that is not possible, destroy their implants. We do not want to force players to take actions which will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney. I hope you understand this from our perspective. I would agree the majority of pilots have implants (up to +3 is bound to be common), however I would strongly disagree that the majority of pilots without jumpclones have expensive pirate implant sets. I would also disagree that "forcing" a pilot to get a jumpclone is any worse than "forcing" a pilot to remove the rigs from their ship. Quote: Okay, this seems to have generated some controversy, considering it was the topic of a conversation in Jita Local, of all places, earlier today. There are two statements involved: 1) All pilots have the FUNDAMENTAL ability to change ships at will, and lose nothing by doing so True, but there is no guarantee that there is more than one ship to change into Quote: 2) All pilots have the innate ability to change implant sets around (or to forgo implants entirely) by destroying their old implants. Not all pilots start with cybernetics and so therefore it is not an innate ability Quote: 2a) Jumpclones (largely) negate this, but pilots do not INHERENTLY possess the capability to create jumpclones. 2aa) Even if they did, or if you argue it's sufficiently cheap to get jumpclones that it shouldn't matter, pilots cannot necessarily have an implant-free jumpclone availale for the tournament without destroying existing implants. Jumpclones require a rank 1 skill with no pre-reqs to be trained 1 level and then for the pilot to either have standing or go to a public outpost for something which can never be lost! Cybernetics is a rank 3 skill with a requirement to also have science 3 first and then to spend isk on something that can be taken away. Quote: CCP is working off of the goal that pilots should not lose anything other than what they choose to undock* in. As soon as you force someone to destroy implants in order to participate in the tournament, you've failed this requirement. And, before someone says it couldn't happen, I know of one tournament participant whose jump clones consist of two +5 sets (one in his active clone), a Slave set, a Snake set, a Crystal set, and a +4 "suicide ops" set (with 5% hardwirings). Yes, I hate him too. Good for him. If he can't afford to undock in those sets then why does he have them in all his clones? Why should the rules be set such that the other people participating have to spend silly money on implants or training to use them that "will disrupt their normal gameplay or limit their ability to participate in the tourney" when simply removing the implants from the allowed list would stop that. For the smaller alliances just the ship costs are bad enough I'm sure most of the views are interested in seeing everybody fighting on a mostly level playing field
11of7	Posted - 2007.08.28 08:29:00 - [153] what about this rule: 9. Dropping secure or insecure cargo containers is not allowed. Dropping regular jettison containers is allowed. So is it allowed to keep a cargo container in your cargo bay when you not drop it?
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.28 11:36:00 - [154] Edited by: Patch86 on 28/08/2007 11:36:54 Originally by: Abel Dusten Edited by: Abel Dusten on 27/08/2007 15:53:01 Originally by: Patch86 Group A: Afermath Alliance and IAC are allies. Allies? pretty sure we'r not at least i din't get the memo. Fine fine, I did say I was doing it in a rush --------
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.29 03:46:00 - [155] Originally by: 11of7 what about this rule: 9. Dropping secure or insecure cargo containers is not allowed. Dropping regular jettison containers is allowed. So is it allowed to keep a cargo container in your cargo bay when you not drop it? Yes, you may have (in/)secure cargo containers in your hold; the only restriction is that you cannot resupply teammates by dropping them. If it's REALLY important to you, however, you may of course field an Exequror with a full set of cargo expanders and allow the enemy team to pop it, though if they see you doing this, they'll likely call the Exeq's wreck primary. If you use secure cans in the Exeq's hold, they'll pop out into space alongside the wreck, rather than inside it. This is the only legal way I can think of to get a secure can on the field. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Potiphar	Posted - 2007.08.29 19:22:00 - [156] When does our team have to be ready? like 10 mins before our match? a half hour? an hour? Also, do we have to be in the same system when we get picked up by the gm? or can we be spread out?
Ladel Teravada Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.30 06:05:00 - [157] Your tourney captain will have received a mail from GM Nova pointing out that the gang should be assembled 30minutes before the match. Commodore Ladel Teravada Executive Officer, Fleet Operations
Owi Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.31 08:33:00 - [158] Hi everyone.. got question, i heard different answers .. are faction ammo allowed ? it says no faction modules but ammo isnt a module for me ;-) does faction ammo count into t1 ammo ? regards Owi ..and good hunting My EvE-Files.com folder !
Owi Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.08.31 08:42:00 - [159] Quote: GM Nova Game Master Game Masters Posted - 2007.08.07 19:51:00 - [95] - Quote Here are the answers. 1. Yes, faction ammo is allowed. never mind ... =) My EvE-Files.com folder !
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.09.01 15:41:00 - [160] Originally by: GM Nova 1. In each match, teams get points for killing ships, based on their value in the rules. 2. The more ships you kill, the more points you get, with winner of a fight decided by who kills the most points. 3. For winning a fight, an team will receive a 25% bonus to the points they score. 4. If you kill the entire opposing team, it is considered ôT+TALHELLDEATHö. You get 150 points total (a 50% bonus). 5. At the end of the group stage, the top 2 teams in each group by points scored will go through to the finals. So if I get this right, 3 smartbombing phoons, approaching the other team, popping some frigates and selfdestructing would generate 3* 27 + x*3 points, rendering the opponent no way of scoring a single point? Ie a flaw in the idea of points per kill and the fact that you may pop yourself. =) Postcount: 602645
Tyrrhena Maxus Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.01 16:34:00 - [161] So if a team accidentally brings in too many points they forfeit? Even when they offer to drop a player? I don't see anything in the rules about that one. Lame move guys
Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.09.01 16:37:00 - [162] Time to fire up the Threadnaught GS! Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Papa Ina GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:08:00 - [163] Originally by: Shari Vegas Time to fire up the Threadnaught GS! Not really, no. Would be nice to get a GM response on it though.
Lyn Z Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.09.02 15:55:00 - [164] Originally by: Papa Ina Originally by: Shari Vegas Time to fire up the Threadnaught GS! Not really, no. Would be nice to get a GM response on it though. If it makes you feel any better GM Xhagen was rootin' for you guys in today's tournament.
SexxxSlave	Posted - 2007.09.04 06:41:00 - [165] Originally by: Tyrrhena Maxus So if a team accidentally brings in too many points they forfeit? Even when they offer to drop a player? I don't see anything in the rules about that one. Lame move guys 98,99,109 errrr you had a half hour (maybe more) to prep....and you realized at the last minute that you were over? get a grip. Them's the rules, get over it.
Rudedog Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.09.06 09:54:00 - [166] GM Nova, Help!!! I have filed a petition for a pod death during the tournament. However, it appears the the current Gm dealing with my petition is slightly clueless about the tournament and the rules. Can you please look into it for me. Thanks. ----------------------- Once Rude, Always Rude

GM Nova Game Masters	Posted - 2007.09.07 00:15:00 - [167] Originally by: Rudedog GM Nova, Help!!! I have filed a petition for a pod death during the tournament. However, it appears the the current Gm dealing with my petition is slightly clueless about the tournament and the rules. Can you please look into it for me. Thanks. Here I come to save the daaaayyyyyy. Sorted.

noitulos Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:25:00 - [168] Originally by: GM Nova Tournament Prizes This subject has been the cause of a lot of debate, but we feel that after much discussion we have a winner. You have called for something special for the pilots, the alliances want something cool for everyone, and the bragging rights are not to be passed up either. The bragging rights Pilots will be awarded medals û Bronze, Silver and Gold. For now, these medals are unique items that can sit in your hangar. When the medal system is brought into the game, pilots will have the opportunity to exchange these for a badge that will appear on your ôshow infoö page. For the alliances, a tournament is not complete without a Cup! This tournament will see the first round of a perpetual trophy. Far into the future, every tournament will see the previous champion handing it back û for safekeeping by the next champions and a new name etched on the side for all time. For the Alliance Each alliance gets the opportunity to champion a faction just as knights of old championed fair maidens. The bravest and most daring knight won favour and so will the winning alliance - 1st place a 30% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 2nd place a 20% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. 3rd place a 10% standing bonus for each and every pilot in the alliance. For the best of the best, the few, the elite We have saved the best till last for the winning pilots. Just as the faction will give standings to the member pilots, so too will there be a special bonus for the elite winning team. First prize. 20 million loyalty points split equally among the members of the winning team. Second prize. 12 million loyalty points split equally among the members of the winning team. Third prize. 6 million loyalty points split equally among the members of the winning team. The loyalty points are towards the militant corporation of each faction, and can be used in their LP store. 2 questions: 1) What is the 'Militant Corporation of each faction'? For example, if I wanted my LP reward to go toward an agent/faction I'm running currently, can I use the LP there? 2) When will the LP be given to the pilots? ______________________________________________ "Every battle is won or lost before it is ever fought." -Sun Tsu
Wardeneo	Posted - 2007.09.12 00:01:00 - [169] where does the tournament take place? is it on the test server, or real TQ server, and where abouts on the map is it? wardeneo

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Fourth Alliance Tournament

Rules

Tournament Prizes

The prizes for this tournament, as they currently stand, increase BoB's net worth by a minimum of 100 billion isk, even if BoB does not participate in the tournament.

The prizes for this tournament, as they currently stand, increase BoB's net worth by a minimum of 100 billion isk, even if BoB does not participate in the tournament.

The prizes for this tournament, as they currently stand, increase BoB's net worth by a minimum of 100 billion isk, even if BoB does not participate in the tournament.

Rules

Rules

Tournament Prizes