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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Cardice Makar
Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:03:00 -
[61]
First: I'm a curse pilot, and I endorse these changes... It's really really easy to work around them. Just keep your cap injectors on hand and let them burn by nos, part of the way into the battle, make sure you switch on your neuts and injectors because your nos are going to start eating cap. Big deal.
If you can't come up with interesting solutions to these issues, you shouldn't fly recons. They're supposed to be combat support ships not cookie-cutter 'wtfpwn'-gang annihilators.
To the others... wow. Just... wow. And people laughed that I spec'd Amarr/Caldari. [wait... yes, laughing is still a viable option]
Also... how does this effect drones? They have 1 cap, and I assume it recharges fairly quick, so they should always be able to nos but if they didn't recharge normally, there'd be issues. Interesting indeed.
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Darcha
Republic University
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:07:00 -
[62]
I cannot believe u finally went ahead and changed it. NOS has been around a while and while I agree that there is very little disadvantage in using them, small highspeed orbitting ships will now definately kill a BS too easy. Sure it still takes long but I'm never gonna kill an inty attacking my bs if he keeps his range (outside webber) unless MAYBE with t2 warriors or so but he can still pop em and then I'm gone. with NOS I can at least slow em down. this new nos will be useless cross-class. for BS vs BS it sounds reasonable tho.
And I still think my original idea solves the NOS problem a hell of alot better.
______________________________________ "There are NO bugs in EVE, just oversights" ----- Oveur and TomB, EvE fanfest 2006 |
Miss CJB
Gallente In White Suits
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:11:00 -
[63]
i have to say, overall i like these changes
noss definatly needed a nerf, i would have prefered the sig radious one, but any nurf is good (yess i am a curse piolet).
still no love for the apoc though?
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Sakura Nihil
Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:12:00 -
[64]
I'm thinking this through a bit more, and to be honest I'm starting to think this form of nos nerf isn't the right way to go - either basing it on sig-radius or the target's capacitor levels is the correct choice in my view.
Let's look at the best uses of nos - it kills the cap of interceptors, breaks speed tanks and reduces the amount of time a shield or armor tank can run, and uses no cap in the process.
With it being sig-based, MWDing interceptors and nanoships would still be hurt hard by the nerf and be forced to use injectors or use afterburners (lol speed limit? ) to tackle, but without high speeds in play the smaller a ship is the better it will do against the heavy or medium nos.
The latter suggestion might mean that while each size nos sucks at a different rate and range, like a stacking penalty on the damage mods there's a maximum percentage you could reduce the capacitor of the ship to. Say, 1 nos stops sucking when it gets down to 25% of its target's max capacity, 2 nos would be 15%, 3 would be 10%, and so on down until an asymptote of say 5%. Get the idea?
The fact that I'm still trying to figure out if the announced nos nerf is a good thing or bad thing after an hour of thought is usually a bad sign.
50m Sig Contest! |
Vitrael
Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:13:00 -
[65]
Nos changes, for Amarr: Good! You guys never have enough cap anyway.
for Gallente: Ha! Now you're forced not to fly 6 nod Myrmidons / Dominixes. Are you going to whine or just fit neuts?
for Caldari: I guess this nerf doesn't really affect you guys all that much other than to help the friggies out.
for we Minmatar: \0/ Time to start fitting nos/neut and wtfpwning cap while continuing to rock socks with our projectiles.
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Gentlewind
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:14:00 -
[66]
Thank god you have finally nerfed the curse they were far too much fun I can now go back to fleet engagements where I pass the time wondering if I'll get my own km before or after everything loads. (sarcasm btw)
Just a quick suggestion, if your so determined too kill anything remotely fun about the game just have 1 ship with exactly the same modules I'm sure that would solve the server problems as well
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:14:00 -
[67]
Ok, on a more constructive note:
Fendahl, first of, if you decided that the nossed energy amount (40% of perfect BS cap regeneration, on an un-named module I'd like to add) is too much, why don't you just reduce it a bit as a first step? I mean, that would seem most logical and obvious to me.
Anyway, I'd like to offer an alternative, or at least a bit food for thought. Would it be possible to make Nos capacitor-relative based in a slightly different way? Say you have a base energy transfer amount, and the effective transfer amount is modified by the relation between your cap and the target's cap. But you can't go above 100%, of course.
Examples: Base transfer amount:100 Your cap: 2000 Target cap: 4000 Effective transfer amount: 100 (because 4000/2000=2, but capped at 1, so 100% of base amount)
Base transfer amount:100 Your cap: 4000 Target cap: 2000 Effective transfer amount: 50 (because 2000/4000=0,5 and 0,5*100=50)
Base transfer amount:100 Your cap: 4000 Target cap: 800 Effective transfer amount: 20
Base transfer amount:30 Your cap: 1200 Target cap: 150 Effective transfer amount: 3,75 (rounded up or down)
Effectively this wouldn't make Nos a simple ON/OFF mechanic like with the now implemented cap% comparison, it would include a diminishing returns mechanic and an effective size-relevant adaption.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
Skraeling Shortbus
Caldari Gallente Federal Bank
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:14:00 -
[68]
Could we get some more powergrid on the domi so i can actually fit bs sized weapons and some semblance of a tank now?
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General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:16:00 -
[69]
Why for the love of good you add 1 thing and open so many many cans of worms ?
Khanid MKII
Good changes overall even thou the Damanation whit HAMs is just not gonna cut it and the Nanosacri isn't the Tanked Missile aka more minmatar then Amarr
Nosferatu
Curse/Pilgrim nerfed but not 2 badly Nos Domi not that nerfed .
Interceptors : Hurray we are now total fuking invincibile . Now an skilled ceptor can render a BS imobile for hours whidout the BS being able do do anything , NOS was popular amonst BS pilots beacuse it gave them extra cap and the only whay to stop ceptors dead in their tracks now you need to be a special BS to do that
Supercapitals/Capitals : Hurray , small gangs boo you don't have dreads you can't kill a capital thank you . /irony off
Please for the love of god implement a staking nerf to NOS but NOT the change you are proposing . your change will only give us more serverside pain and lag and more whine topics then ever before . Test it a lot before you bring it to TQ .
And please answer this question :
How do you kill and interceptor whidout another interceptor or Neut
goon = A fool, or someone considered silly |
Zikka
The Establishment
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:18:00 -
[70]
The falcon got made useless with the ECM change, I think the pilgrim/curse is fairing better than it did.
Overall I like the new changes, a real choice between Nos and Neuts, less need to fit a cap injector on every ship just to fight Nos. Amarr finally get some flexibility and have the choice of training up an alternate weapon system. Caldari can cross train armour tanking and Amarr and have a solo pvp option that doesn't waste their missile SP.
One thing I will say though (and this is as a Caldari pilot) is that you don't need to make the bonus rocket/ham specific. With the restricted grid and cpu people will struggle to fit anything larger and will have to make compromises.
In hybrid guns Gallente get damage bonuses, caldari get range bonuses In missiles Amarr get damage bonuses, Caldari get range (flight time/velocity/etc) bonuses. This sounds pretty fair to me and tends to encourage one particular use without making it the only option.
Has anyone thought about switching one of the Ammarr battleships to match as well? They all seem to do the same thing at the moment so it might make sense for Khanid to refit one (perhaps the tier 2 one?) with their new ideas...It might need a change to torps and cruise though considering torps at the moment have higher fitting requirements than cruise despite being the short range weapon...
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Pepperami
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:20:00 -
[71]
Pretty poor nos changes. Dedicated nos ships should not suffer as greatly in the nerf as for ex. nos domi. I'm disappointed CCP did not realise this. Hopefully upon review they'll work on it - obviously it was notable curse was not listed in the khanid ship changes.
Khanid changes look good, not sure about cutting back the range, that seems pointless to me and a "omg what if it's as good as caldari" hack bolted on at the end of a meeting. Nothing wrong with the whole idea of giving amarr pilots something extra to train so I disagree with those whines.
A-WAR might be Recruiting!
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G Dabak
Magellanic Itg GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:23:00 -
[72]
If you do this, the curse and pilgrim at least need an energy neutralizer cap bonus so neuts sustain better. It's not just about some ideal of being able to drain while not running out of cap yourself, you need to actually hold cap at/near 0 and fight off cap boosting which is only made harder by the 12 sec ROF (twice that of nos).
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Exlegion
KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:26:00 -
[73]
This is a hell of a boost for gate camps .
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru |
Sucram
Amarr North Star Networks Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:27:00 -
[74]
Thank god i can fly other things then amarr. --------------------------------------------
"From pain comes truth, let me show you the truth" |
Dr Aryandi
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:28:00 -
[75]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
And please answer this question :
How do you kill and interceptor whidout another interceptor or Neut
Take off your Nos, replace it with a Neut...
That's what I'm planning to do...
Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:32:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Cypherous Damnation change = bad, it lacks the speed to get in range to make its HAM bonus even remotely worth while, as for boosting its already insane tank why?
TBH the DPS on the damnation with HAM's is so poor it makes the ship useless for anything, mines going to be going on the market before the nerf :(
No, its not. The change is good, with even only a modicum of skills the DPS on the hams will outstrip your previous DPS with pulse lasers.
And its not like the Damnation wasnt the lowest DPS of all the command ships ANYWAY.
All the changes are good, 100% good. Supercalifragalisticexpialidocious good.
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:32:00 -
[77]
Originally by: General Apocalypse How do you kill and interceptor whidout another interceptor or Neut [/b]
You answered it yourself. Fit a neutralizer. *Klick*, 500 energy gone, ceptor dead. Also: maybe don't fly alone in a BS if you're not fit for it?
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
Rooker
Lysian Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:35:00 -
[78]
First - You have got to exempt Amarr recons from the nos nerf. They were specifically designed to do what you're nerfing :\
Second - Reduce the PG use of neutralizers to bring them in line with nos. I always fit a heavy nos on my fleet megas to run off interceptors. I'd have fit neuts instead, since I was using it as a weapon, but their fitting reqs are insane.
Heavy Dim nos - 2000MW Heavy Unstable neut - 2500MW Med Dim nos - 175MW Med Unstable neut - 200MW
Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to go delete my "Pilgrim" skill plan from Evemon
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Dr Felonius
Caldari Civilian Purposes Limited
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:38:00 -
[79]
The NOS changes strike me as a massive overnerf. Making it harder to totally kill someone's cap with a NOS would be good. Making nosDoms a little less awesome would be good. But there's nothing fundamentally wrong with letting ships with superior NOS capability utterly wreck an enemy's capacitor over time. It's a high slot module that uses a lot of grid, it ought to be nasty. I'd rather see some sort of stacking nerf, or perhaps an effectiveness curve that lets them hack off huge chunks of a full cap but smaller amounts of cap when the target is nearly drained anyway.
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SirMolly
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:43:00 -
[80]
NOS change shouldn't affect curse/pilrim. Also neutrolizer PG requirement should be lowered to the level of NOS.
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Dash Ripcock
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:43:00 -
[81]
It's great seeing Khanid Mk II finally being implemented. The Damnation might need a little bit of a twist (since it's rather slow, making its use of close-range missiles a little limiting - nice tank mind). The other ships, at a glance, look good. Especially the Sacrilege which I suspect will rocket in price due to it now being a fantastic mission runner.
Nosferatu changes are interesting and I'll have to give them a go to see what they're like. I don't see it affecting the Curse or Pilgrim much, just carry a mixture of neutralisers and nosferatus. Kill their cap, leech it a little, kill it... rinse and repeat. Just takes a bit more thought than F1-F8.
Outbreak - The Movie
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Tarron Sarek
Gallente Endica Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:44:00 -
[82]
Well that would've been another alternative:
1. Swap Nos and Neut fitting costs (but make Neuts a bit harder to fit than current Nos) and reduce Nos transfer amount by 25%. Increased fitting and reduced amount gives the target more time to kill the Nos ship before it runs out of cap (i.e. Blasterthron vs. Nos-Domi)
2. Re-implement a very minimal cap usage for projectiles and missiles. This would end the balancing problems totally cap-less setups cause.
_________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well.. - |
Michayel Lyon
The Corporation Cruel Intentions
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:44:00 -
[83]
Here's for CCP making a hen out of a feather, and then coming up with the stupidest, most complicated way of killing the hen.
Seriously guys, what's wrong with tracking? Sig radius penalty? Diminishing returns? Percentage-based nossing? Nosferatu hardpoints? Seriously, just removing nos from the game would be a better solution...
--- Lasiverin Dark > Is everyone here allied? Red Knight > we are allied by our zombie like ability to ***** missions
GM Xamother: "Beeing online is not considered harassment or exploit." |
General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:46:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Dr Aryandi
Originally by: General Apocalypse
And please answer this question :
How do you kill and interceptor whidout another interceptor or Neut
Take off your Nos, replace it with a Neut...
That's what I'm planning to do...
You fail at reading 101
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Sammiel
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:47:00 -
[85]
Has there been any thought into extending the 'Khanid' changes to some of the T1 Amarr ships bereft of a role? Mainly talking about the inquisitor (a lot of T1 frigs could really use a revamp), maller, prophecy, apoc. I know it would break the canon surrounding Khanid ships a little bit, but overall I think it could be workable. Something like;
Inquisitor: 3 missile slots, 5% rocket bonus, 5% armor resists on a fairly speedy frame
Maller: 4 missile slots, 5% HAM damage bonus, 5% armor resists
Prophecy: 5 missile slots, 5% HAM damage bonus, 5% armor resists
Apoc: 6 missile slots, 5% Torpedo damage bonus, 5% armor resists
That would allow a stronger thread for the ship types as follows;
Inquisitor -> Purifier/Vengeance -> Maller -> Sacrilege -> Prophecy -> Damnation -> Apocalypse Punisher -> Retribution -> Omen -> Zealot -> Harbinger -> Absolution -> Geddon
I realize that some models would need to be reworked too, but overall I think it would help add diversity to Amarr T1 as well as T2 and provide two distinct design philosophies to Amarr, similiar to what the other races have (drones/blaster, speed/alpha, missiles/rails). DEATHLEY > why dont u remain silent like prominent alliances like our band of brothers do |
Shadow Dream
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:48:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Michayel Lyon Here's for CCP making a hen out of a feather, and then coming up with the stupidest, most complicated way of killing the hen.
Seriously guys, what's wrong with tracking? Sig radius penalty? Diminishing returns? Percentage-based nossing? Nosferatu hardpoints? Seriously, just removing nos from the game would be a better solution...
We just like to screw whit your mind and make you enjoy the game . We whant to reach 300k player soon .
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Almarez
Setenta Corp
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:51:00 -
[87]
Has anyone tested to see how this affects the Pilgrim and Curse? New outpost-30 bil isk, Items to save up for cap ships-700 mil isk, Going to bed early now that you don't have to work for that and realizing how much poontang you were missing-PRICELESS |
Dr Aryandi
Hematite Rose Bionic Dawn
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Dr Aryandi
Originally by: General Apocalypse
And please answer this question :
How do you kill and interceptor whidout another interceptor or Neut
Take off your Nos, replace it with a Neut...
That's what I'm planning to do...
You fail at reading 101
Not at all. I was pointing out that you listed your solution in with your complaint...
Blueprint Research Service Available See thread for details.
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General Apocalypse
Amarr The Merchant Marines
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:54:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Dr Aryandi
Originally by: General Apocalypse
Originally by: Dr Aryandi
Originally by: General Apocalypse
And please answer this question :
How do you kill and interceptor whidout another interceptor or Neut
Take off your Nos, replace it with a Neut...
That's what I'm planning to do...
You fail at reading 101
Not at all. I was pointing out that you listed your solution in with your complaint...
Are you gonna fit a neut on your mega or do you like to have any 2 cents ceptor rendering you imobile forever
Say NO to the NOS nerf |
Mack Dorgeans
Camelot Innovations
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Posted - 2007.07.30 16:55:00 -
[90]
Doesn't anyone use nos to maintain cap, not just drain it? Certainly in PvE, it's nice to have a module that helps maintain your cap without blowing a medium slot on an injector. You don't get as much of a boost, but it does give a little extra and make spare high slots useful on some ships that would otherwise have nothing viable to put there.
With this change, does the nos stop running when it detects the target has less cap than the attacker? If not, does it just keep cycling, and you never really know if it's having any effect?
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