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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Silver Shine
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:34:00 -
[571]
GREAT the nos changes are a VERY good idea ! Finaly ! no more gallente overpower .. thx dev's
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar
Guardians of the Dawn
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:35:00 -
[572]
How can anyone say that now curse and pilgrim will be the worst form its class? Are you drunk?
Which of the other recons can kill a BS? NONE only curse was able to and will coontinue to be able to, just a take a bit longer!!! For god sake, just turn your MWD on and you will be able to NOS the other guy to almost dead dry!!
All the negative response is comming in sucha childishway that i am starting to think CCP is grabbing too many players form WOW.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
Holy Cheater
Red Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:41:00 -
[573]
 Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Originally by: Holy Cheater
Nos-nerf means you kill 4 ships at a time (dominix, myrmidon, curse, pilgrim). Congratulations, CCP. It is a sad tendency to kill solo ships one by one.
In a half of year PvP will turn into F1-F8 with a latency of 10 min in a lagged-fleet fights, I think.
You better point your destructive energy into fixing the lags than implementing some insane ideas.
Excuse me if it sounds too offensive, but I'm being killed by EVE's "evolution" for over half of year..
PS: Damnation now have no free pg and you adding it a launcher slot and removing 210pg..
Hi, let me introduce you to a module you may not be aware of...
Hi, thanks for the link, but I have a bunch of blasterthron-like (big and small) ships, so I'm a bit tired of them.
These two (dominix and myrm) were some kind of unique ships, and now we're going back to blasters..
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LiBraga
Project Gemini
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:45:00 -
[574]
Wow....
nerfing nos to nerf nos-domis etc = good.
But it's nerfs amars nos ships = bad.
Reminds me of ECM.. and the Rook still is nowhere as good as it used to be.
I feel for the curse pilots.
However... HAMs were made to allow predominantly the caldari pilots to get close and have some dps. Ideally the cerb.
Lets compare the Cerb with the Sacrilage... what a surprise the missile specialist has been outdone and the sacrilage has a better tank aswell.
It seems that all these nerfs and buffs are sending Caldari pilots out of pvp.
Instead of nerfing things how about looking at the ships and setups which are unbalanced and fixing them without affecting those which are fine.
Every action causes a reaction. Knock on effects.
I sometimes wonder if your balancing team actually know about balancing... if not send them to uni, part time on a BSc Games Programming or Development course. Because its proven that they lack the fundimentals which are taught in year 1.
I'll stop ranting now.
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What! Caldari have dps now... noooo
Aye, T2 HAMs FTW!!!!! |
Dixon
Caldari
Thundercats
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:47:00 -
[575]
I'm loving this. Nos nerf, Khanid mk II and some guy with 50 alts trying to convince CCP nobody wants this.
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:50:00 -
[576]
I very much like the changes, especially as they complement each other. Giving Khanid Innovations technology a close-range active-tank missile flavour would have ruined the line had nos remained unchanged. The marginally useful ships in particular would have been forced into an evolutionary dead end overnight (eg AF forced into rocket range with even T1 cruisers packing multiple nos).
The nos change removes the no-brainer anti-(everything smaller than you) fitting option. Aside from giving the Khanid ships a fighting chance on their own strengths, it increases the survivability of smaller ships vs larger ones in general, which for a while has been sadly lacking. It's good news for all small ship pilots.
People can still rob the enemy of cap to an extent, but fully draining a target's capacitor now involves a fitting and performance compromise in the form of neuts which do not pay off 100% of the time, as nos did by design. For a long time I was a nos supporter, it seemed reasonable enough, but player behaviour broke it.
The nos bonus ships will adapt, remember the bonus applies to neuts. The rest, maybe people should use the weapon bonuses now like they are supposed to. Everyone who hates this change simply hates having to spend the time changing their setups and methods, nothing more. This does actually make things a lot better because everyone will be spending less time twiddling their thumbs waiting for their hitpoints to ablate before they can warp their pod. Now that is boring gameplay.
If you think the Khanid ships are overpowered, you will just have to use webs, drones and guns without nos prepping the victim. And in fact all ships which use cap for damage just got a little survivability boost.
I am very happy with these changes and can't wait to see them put into practice in their current form.
Logoffs
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Commander Spectre
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:55:00 -
[577]
Edited by: Commander Spectre on 31/07/2007 16:56:54
Edited by: Commander Spectre on 31/07/2007 16:55:18
Well I think this change sucks. The only difference is I'm not a CCP puppet that is afraid to say so. This was obviously done to further boost Amarr ships while leaving the rest of the races behind. Of course it doesn't affect minmtar much which is another requirement of a patch. The NOS domi is now going to be a thing of the past making it a totally usless ship. It doesn't have the firepower to take on any of the other tier 1 BS so it is just a plain drone boat. Might get some use outta it by sticking some miner IIs and mining drones on it.
So if you make a new character make sure you train up Amarr or Minmtar. CCP is out to ruin the other races with thier "Patches". Another stupid idea from CCP. What is the deal anyways? Do you only listen to Amarr whiners before you make a patch?
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:57:00 -
[578]
One (similarly made up) scenario for fighting a cap-independent ship equipped with NEUT with an Amarr laser boat...
As the CIN (cap-independent NEUT) ship NEUTs your energy away, you NOS him down as well... the CIN is paying to kill your cap (and his cap from your NOS drain), too. Once you both get to zero cap, pop a cap booster charge, CIN doesn't have the cap to use the NEUT and your NOS cost you nothing to use (still). If the CIN pops a cap booster, you'll get energy from it. Your lasers keep running somewhat, CIN can't NEUT you and if it pops a cap booster charge, you'll NOS it down to equal anyway. So... even though you both death-spiral down to zero, the ship with NEUT will be at a disadvantage since it can no longer NEUT but the NOS ship can cap boost after that point all it wants. Put a NEUT on the NOS ship in addition and once you hit zero, the CIN will never regain cap. It's kind of like the Amarr and CIN death spiral down to 0 but then the Amarr ship bounces back up while the CIN just sits flat on the ground.
This is much better than today when everybody equips NOS and once you hit 0, you don't have any options because active NOS sucks it away (even on the CIN above).
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:59:00 -
[579]
Quote:
The only real non cap dependent ships are passive tanked shielders, which weren't affected by NOS anyway.
Which means that any NOS ship is free to suck their cap down just as before. You may have to engage your armor rep a cycle or two even if you don't need it to keep your cap lower than your target, but you'll be able to drain the target the whole while.
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Hellspawn01
Amarr
Falcon Advanced Industries
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Posted - 2007.07.31 16:59:00 -
[580]
You can stop posting here. Its useless. The changes are already coming if we like it or not. Talking about it wont change anything.
Devs, you suck.
Ship lovers click here |
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:01:00 -
[581]
Originally by: Commander Spectre
Edited by: Commander Spectre on 31/07/2007 16:56:54
Edited by: Commander Spectre on 31/07/2007 16:55:18
Well I think this change sucks. The only difference is I'm not a CCP puppet that is afraid to say so. This was obviously done to further boost Amarr ships while leaving the rest of the races behind. Of course it doesn't affect minmtar much which is another requirement of a patch. The NOS domi is now going to be a thing of the past making it a totally usless ship. It doesn't have the firepower to take on any of the other tier 1 BS so it is just a plain drone boat. Might get some use outta it by sticking some miner IIs and mining drones on it.
So if you make a new character make sure you train up Amarr or Minmtar. CCP is out to ruin the other races with thier "Patches". Another stupid idea from CCP. What is the deal anyways? Do you only listen to Amarr whiners before you make a patch?
Ok, let me reply to your post by saying: 
"Oh noes, the nos-domi now actually requires some thought and isn't an I-Win boat vs almost everyother ship out there!"
Again:
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Fozters
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:03:00 -
[582]
Chance HAM's to heavy missiles insted 
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Fallorn
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:06:00 -
[583]
Edited by: Fallorn on 31/07/2007 17:06:13
The Khanid MK II is wonderful because it makes for something new and fun looking. The nos change is something that is in the process of killing all the blood raider ships along with the Curse, and changes many other fittings. One other thing is the fact the Curse is developed by Khanid Innovation but it is not receiving a change. If you are going to neuter it you might as well just scrap it and give it a completely new look like the damnation and others.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
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Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:07:00 -
[584]
The one thing i dont like about the khanid changes is that it leaves all amarr pilots, who specialized in lasers, with 1 AF that can't properly tackle on its own.
This was the vengance niche so far, since the retribution cant do it with just one med slot. So if the vengance is changed so drastically the retribution needs at least one more med slot, preferrably by sacrificing one low slot.
In general i dont like missile ships since they are not very useful in PVP (why isnt that fixed? there are multiple proposals on that..!).
Another thing is that few people fly amarr because amarr ships are very predictable, especially in this case. seriously, would you fly a sacrilege, if a caracal pilot can kill you, while you dont stand a chance to hit him, because he has a longer range and more med slots to dampen you?
if you really wanna boost khanid ships, give em a bonus on missiles in general, not just close range, because thats a nerf in (a bad) disguise, and people dont like that...
_________________________________________________
For more players and action in lowsec
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:14:00 -
[585]
Originally by: Duhmad IbnRa
The one thing i dont like about the khanid changes is that it leaves all amarr pilots, who specialized in lasers, with 1 AF that can't properly tackle on its own.
This was the vengance niche so far, since the retribution cant do it with just one med slot. So if the vengance is changed so drastically the retribution needs at least one more med slot, preferrably by sacrificing one low slot.
In general i dont like missile ships since they are not very useful in PVP (why isnt that fixed? there are multiple proposals on that..!).
Another thing is that few people fly amarr because amarr ships are very predictable, especially in this case. seriously, would you fly a sacrilege, if a caracal pilot can kill you, while you dont stand a chance to hit him, because he has a longer range and more med slots to dampen you?
if you really wanna boost khanid ships, give em a bonus on missiles in general, not just close range, because thats a nerf in (a bad) disguise, and people dont like that...
WHAT?!?!
"In general i dont like missile ships since they are not very useful in PVP" - Do you know ANYTHING about this game?!?! The reason "missile ships" aren't regarded as very usefull in PVP is because they where all Caldari, i.e. shield tankers, and so had to sacrifice their tank to tackle, use speed mods, EW, etc.
Guess what the Khanid ships are? Armour tankers, so this isn't an issue anymore.
And a Sacriledge can't kill a Caracal because the Caracal has more mids and a bigger range?!?! WTF are you smoking! I can kill non-AM Caracals in my Punisher! With 2 midslots and a range of 2km on my guns!
Please, please, please, for the guys arguing against these changes, at least find some arguments that aren't actually absurd and some people qho actually know anything about PVP in this game!
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Cmdr Sy
Appetite 4 Destruction
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:15:00 -
[586]
I have flown with blasters, so I don't have a problem with close range.
Hardly anyone used the Vengeance before, hardly anyone used the Damnation. The proof will be when you start seeing them in PVP. If you see them in PVP, it means the patch was good.
And Amarr being boosted with other races being left behind?
Give me a break, the Devs admitted Amarr had serious problems months ago. This isn't the last boost you will see before they are brought back up to scratch.
The Dominix can be used with hybrids by the way. I have my skills maxed in that thing on two characters, I am not complaining about it either.
Logoffs
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JCache
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:20:00 -
[587]
Originally by: Hellspawn01
You can stop posting here. Its useless. The changes are already coming if we like it or not. Talking about it wont change anything.
Devs, you suck.
You're probably right, but at least we should let them know how ****ty they are.
They will definitely lose some customers because of this crap. Let's see if they can adapt or will die...
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PhantomVyper
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:21:00 -
[588]
Originally by: JCache
Originally by: Hellspawn01
You can stop posting here. Its useless. The changes are already coming if we like it or not. Talking about it wont change anything.
Devs, you suck.
You're probably right, but at least we should let them know how ****ty they are.
They will definitely lose some customers because of this crap. Let's see if they can adapt or will die...
Can I have your stuff?
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Phyridean
Lionsgate Ionic Dispersion
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:29:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Tao Han
Dont forget to update the descriptions on the Khanid ships, bragging about strong shields on armor tankers doesnt look good 
You mean like they did on the Manticore? Originally by: Manticore Description
The Manticore differs from other stealth bombers by virtue of its additional launcher hardpoint.
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Gentlewind
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:37:00 -
[590]
Eve online-mediocrity in space.
I love all the pro-nos change monkeys, yet another shining star of a ship the Curse is dragged back down into the general mire that eve is becoming.
God forbid that there should actually be a ship thats exciting to fly, what people really want is every ship to be exactly the same.
Maybe I'll go back to fleet engagements where I can play the exciting game of 'will my km arrive before the grid loads'.
Oh by the way ccp I'm sure all the 0.0 23/7 raven farmers that you seem to turn a blind eye to, which the curse was so good at killing, will reward you by bringing lots of their friends to the game. 
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Vorketh Mordanil
Amarr
Brotherhood of Acquisitions
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:39:00 -
[591]
I don't have time to read all 22 pages to see if it's been added, so I'll keep this brief:
BHAALGORN NEEDS TO HAVE A NEUTRALIZER BONUS ALONG WITH ITS NOS BONUS!
That's it. Done and done.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Borasao
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:40:00 -
[592]
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Can I have your stuff?
You can't have all the quitters' stuff... where would you put it? At least let me have some of the Sacs/Vengences they think are somehow worthless now! 
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:58:00 -
[593]
Originally by: Zerv
MAKE NOS TRANSFER AMOUNT DEPENDENT ON SIG RADIUS.
The reason this didn't happen is that it doesn't solve all the imbalance issues with NOS (among other reasons).
Current NOS fix is good.
PS Just think of it as a modification to all ships' grid systems to make them NOS resistant.
...
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Feng Schui
Minmatar
The Ninja Coalition
New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:58:00 -
[594]
ok dev's.. tell us how you want us to set up our Pilgrim's, please?
Here is my loadout, please.. tell me how I'm to fit a cap injector (I'm leaving out 1 mid slot for the cap injector).
Highs:
2x TS (true sansha) Medium Nosferatu
1x TS medium energy neutralizer
1x Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Mids:
1x Y-T8 Microwarpdrive
1x Warp Disruptor II
1x Domination Stasis Webifier
1x Balmer Tracking Disruptor (I normally fit 2 of these)
Lows:
1x Co-processor II
2x Energized Adaptive Nano-membrane II
1x 800mm Rolled Tungstun Plate
1x Medium Armor Repairer II
Rigs:
Ancillary Current Router (Powergrid Rig)
Auxiliary Nano Pump (Armor rep rig)
This leaves me with 86.75 powergrid, and 56.25 CPU left. A Medium Cap Booster II uses 165MW Powergrid.
Exactly what are your intended roles for these ships? I am using True Sansha NOS / Energy Neuts so I can operate in the 13,500km range, which leaves me vulnerable to getting webbed (by faction webbers).. NOS'd / Energy Neutered by Battleship sized modules, smartbombs, not too mention scoop / re-deployed drones.
What, are you telling us you WANT us to go on "suicide runs" just to neutralize someone's capacitor? Well.. guess what, a battleship can do the job better (running 2x neuts).. AND have left over capacitor to run his tank.
How EXACTLY do you want us to play the game? You are obviously FORCING people to play one exact way (called pigeonholing).
As it is now, with my current build, I go in, run the NOS and 2 cycles of the energy neut. Guess what? This leaves me at 1/2 capacitor. Yes.. I have MAXED skills. Are you telling us you want us to run the energy neut indefinately? WTF?
If this change goes through, I want the following changes, because they are overpowered too:
1) Stasis Webifiers (The enemy can hold me still / can go faster than me)
2) Warp Scramblers / Disruptors (Its not fair that I can't warp when he can)
3) All weapons (Again, not fair that he can get my shields / armor / hull down before he can)
4) Probes (Not fair that an enemy can probe me out and I can't do the same to him)
5) Drones (Its not fair that my T1 small drones can't outdamage Fighter Drones)
6) Warp Bubbles (Why can't I warp away when in a warp bubble? Not fair)
7) Asteroid belts (Why do I have to spend all day mining for ore?)
8) Missions (Its not fair that I have to do missions to earn ISK)
9) The Market (Why do I have to pay for something, and someone else gets my ISK? WTF?)
10) Ships (Why do these ships have faster speed / lock range / Shield / Armor / Hull HP that I do? Not FAIR!!)
And for **** sakes... where the **** is the god damn response to these concerns? Jesus Christ.. This is getting VERY sloppy.
(sorry about this rant.. my coffee tastes like **** this morning.. I'm still no less upset  )
The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :( |
Shadowsword
COLSUP
Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.07.31 17:59:00 -
[595]
Originally by: Borasao
Originally by: PhantomVyper
Can I have your stuff?
You can't have all the quitters' stuff... where would you put it? At least let me have some of the Sacs/Vengences they think are somehow worthless now!
That would be too much, each time you'd open your assets you'd crash the node.
I support the nos change, and the new cald...errr, I mean Khanid design, appart for the half-bonus thingy. Either you give a real missile bonus, or you don't, but those half-bonuses are bad in themselfes, and set a bad precedent, on top of it.
And I'd like to hear something from CCP, there's nothing worse than dropping discutables changes and then refusing to discuss them with those they will affect...
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What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs. |
Borasao
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:05:00 -
[596]
Yup... I think the Sacrilege and Vengence will be really good ships as they are. If CCP "opens up" the bonus to include all launchers for each class (mediums for the Sac and lights for the Vengence), they'll just be even better... I imagine the Caldari Cerberus pilots will complain a lot and get the damage bonus nerfed to just EM, if that happens though. The Hawk pilots will just lay eggs over the Vengence.
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Ta chaina
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:10:00 -
[597]
I see that if you train Amarr you get the short end of the stick again 
Well maybe someday someone will make a new space game.
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Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:13:00 -
[598]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Holy Cheater
Nos-nerf means you kill 4 ships at a time (dominix, myrmidon, curse, pilgrim). Congratulations, CCP. It is a sad tendency to kill solo ships one by one.
In a half of year PvP will turn into F1-F8 with a latency of 10 min in a lagged-fleet fights, I think.
Stop crying.
You know how "solo pvp curse combat" looks like now?
Set orbit 18-20km, f1-f8 (1-4 launcher+nosf, 5-7 3x damps, 8- scrambler), send drones, go afk, collect loot. If your cap is getting low nosf sth else (can be NPC). If you cant kill target, recall drones warp away (not like you were hit thx to damps anyways).
I gladly welcome back old f1-f8 ganks vs tank slugfests rather than f1-f8 "cant touch me i kill you" ganks. At least when you commit to combat "old style" you risk your ship.
Well put.
...
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Mr Breakfast
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:15:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Holy Cheater
Nos-nerf means you kill 4 ships at a time (dominix, myrmidon, curse, pilgrim). Congratulations, CCP. It is a sad tendency to kill solo ships one by one.
In a half of year PvP will turn into F1-F8 with a latency of 10 min in a lagged-fleet fights, I think.
Stop crying.
You know how "solo pvp curse combat" looks like now?
Set orbit 18-20km, f1-f8 (1-4 launcher+nosf, 5-7 3x damps, 8- scrambler), send drones, go afk, collect loot. If your cap is getting low nosf sth else (can be NPC). If you cant kill target, recall drones warp away (not like you were hit thx to damps anyways).
I gladly welcome back old f1-f8 ganks vs tank slugfests rather than f1-f8 "cant touch me i kill you" ganks. At least when you commit to combat "old style" you risk your ship.
Well put.
Agreed.
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Agent Li
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Posted - 2007.07.31 18:20:00 -
[600]
I love it. Can't wait for it to be deployed.
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"Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all." |
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