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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Father Muslum	Posted - 2007.08.08 20:57:00 - [1501] With this patch "NOS AMOUNT BONUS" means nothing. So all curse, pilgrim, ashimmu, bhaalgorn bonuses must be changed if this is coming.
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:14:00 - [1502] Originally by: Father Muslum With this patch "NOS AMOUNT BONUS" means nothing. So all curse, pilgrim, ashimmu, bhaalgorn bonuses must be changed if this is coming. It means a NOS Killsmore CAP and drains more CAP. It means a NEUT Killsmore CAP at the same cap cost. Right? Oh and the Bloodraider ships are getting their NOS bonus changed to NOS+NEUT bonus. Devs confirmed this in their posts some pages back in this thread. "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Tidas Andrommeda	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:18:00 - [1503] Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 21:21:07 Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 21:20:13 Originally by: zero2espect Quote: In this situation...nos is BETTER than before cause you cant be nossed back Think before posting kthx ;D simply not true because a minmatar or caldari pilot doesn't need cap and can zero it (either through neuts or just dumping it into the mwd). meanwhile i'll be using booster charges like crazy as i try to keep firing and repping and forever boosting myself out of the ability to nos back even a little bit of extra cap. i can't fit a neut to a zealot can i - how can i afford the neut cap cost on any amarr ship and still shoot and rep? again - this nerf is designed to stop nosdomis or nosmyrmies fitting full banks of nos and relying on drones to do the damage. amarr can't fit this way because we don't have the drone bays. amarr copping the nerf to fix the gallante problem. some1 needs to think before posting, and it aint me - i've done more than think - i've tried exploring the differences and what they mean plus i actually fly amarr and know what i'm talking about. Sorry but you DO need to think more than, well, you think you need to think. Fagar has a point, sure we can shoot our weapons, but out tank (whether it is speed or otherwise) is completely gone, just like yours. In order to sustain our tanks, we may use cap boosters which would put our cap above yours anyway in which case your nos would work again and ours wouldn't. Pretty much the only time I could see a ship purposefully grounding its cap to 0 and not boosting it back above yours is a passive shield tanker, and a damn good one (drake + myrmi). If they ground their cap its 0 anyway so NO nos/neut system will work so you're boned with either system. STOP THE STEREOTYPES! MINNIE AND CALDARI LOVE US OUR CAP TOO! :D btw...I do fly all four races and am quite familiar with your capacitor troubles (I don't fly any other t2 ships other than minnie which is why I haven't commented on the khanid changes) Summary: 1. Target cap = 0 means you can't use either nos 2. Passive Shield tankers are perhaps the only ones to ground their cap intentionally in order to gain a tactical advantage (this may change as new fits come out after the patch but for now this is fairly true.) 3. Nos is better for Amarr now because when their cap is above yours you no longer get Your nos amount - their nos amount, resulting in better cap recharge. 4. As you've pointed out and I have noticed through my usage of Amarr, alot of fits balance out at 40%-50% which is worse than any other race. Therefore, you're more likely to get any use out of the new nos system. Sorry for destroying your argument :( I'll be back if you wish to try one that makes sense Edit: Spelling mistakes
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:53:00 - [1504] Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 21:21:07 Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 21:20:13 Originally by: zero2espect Quote: In this situation...nos is BETTER than before cause you cant be nossed back Think before posting kthx ;D simply not true because a minmatar or caldari pilot doesn't need cap and can zero it (either through neuts or just dumping it into the mwd). meanwhile i'll be using booster charges like crazy as i try to keep firing and repping and forever boosting myself out of the ability to nos back even a little bit of extra cap. i can't fit a neut to a zealot can i - how can i afford the neut cap cost on any amarr ship and still shoot and rep? again - this nerf is designed to stop nosdomis or nosmyrmies fitting full banks of nos and relying on drones to do the damage. amarr can't fit this way because we don't have the drone bays. amarr copping the nerf to fix the gallante problem. some1 needs to think before posting, and it aint me - i've done more than think - i've tried exploring the differences and what they mean plus i actually fly amarr and know what i'm talking about. Sorry but you DO need to think more than, well, you think you need to think. Fagar has a point, sure we can shoot our weapons, but out tank (whether it is speed or otherwise) is completely gone, just like yours. In order to sustain our tanks, we may use cap boosters which would put our cap above yours anyway in which case your nos would work again and ours wouldn't. Pretty much the only time I could see a ship purposefully grounding its cap to 0 and not boosting it back above yours is a passive shield tanker, and a damn good one (drake + myrmi). If they ground their cap its 0 anyway so NO nos/neut system will work so you're boned with either system. STOP THE STEREOTYPES! MINNIE AND CALDARI LOVE US OUR CAP TOO! :D btw...I do fly all four races and am quite familiar with your capacitor troubles (I don't fly any other t2 ships other than minnie which is why I haven't commented on the khanid changes) Summary: 1. Target cap = 0 means you can't use either nos 2. Passive Shield tankers are perhaps the only ones to ground their cap intentionally in order to gain a tactical advantage (this may change as new fits come out after the patch but for now this is fairly true.) 3. Nos is better for Amarr now because when their cap is above yours you no longer get Your nos amount - their nos amount, resulting in better cap recharge. 4. As you've pointed out and I have noticed through my usage of Amarr, alot of fits balance out at 40%-50% which is worse than any other race. Therefore, you're more likely to get any use out of the new nos system. Sorry for destroying your argument :( I'll be back if you wish to try one that makes sense Edit: Spelling mistakes Also please note the disadvantages Passive Tanks will have using Neutz that i pointed out before. (Powergrid, Low Cap, low DPS, Mediocre Passive tank) All that to be able to take out 1-2 NOS on a enemy ship? Id say its better of improving the Tank and DPS and have a greater chance against the NOS ship and also stand greater chances vs non NOS ships. "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Tidas Andrommeda	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:55:00 - [1505] Originally by: Fager Also please note the disadvantages Passive Tanks will have using Neutz that i pointed out before. (Powergrid, Low Cap, low DPS, Mediocre Passive tank) All that to be able to take out 1-2 NOS on a enemy ship? Id say its better of improving the Tank and DPS and have a greater chance against the NOS ship and also stand greater chances vs non NOS ships. Thanks I like people on the forums backing me up for a change :D
Cyan Nuevo The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:03:00 - [1506] Originally by: zero2espect simply not true because a minmatar or caldari pilot doesn't need cap and can zero it (either through neuts or just dumping it into the mwd). As Tidas and Faager (stupid word filter) already mentioned, the only ships that can safely ground their cap are passive shield tankers. However, the insane advantages that passive shield tanking will give you after the patch is not a problem with the nos nerf but with passive shield tanking itself. (I'll probably create a separate thread on the issue.) Originally by: zero2espect meanwhile i'll be using booster charges like crazy as i try to keep firing and repping and forever boosting myself out of the ability to nos back even a little bit of extra cap. i can't fit a neut to a zealot can i - how can i afford the neut cap cost on any amarr ship and still shoot and rep? What's the problem? A nos will help you keep your cap up. If you want to kill the other person's cap, it's not going to come for free. The fact that you could do it for free is the whole point of this nerf in the first place! --- Proud Amarr pilot.
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:44:00 - [1507] Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Originally by: zero2espect simply not true because a minmatar or caldari pilot doesn't need cap and can zero it (either through neuts or just dumping it into the mwd). As Tidas and Faager (stupid word filter) already mentioned, the only ships that can safely ground their cap are passive shield tankers. However, the insane advantages that passive shield tanking will give you after the patch is not a problem with the nos nerf but with passive shield tanking itself. (I'll probably create a separate thread on the issue.) Again the Passive Tanker would SACRIFICE alot, to much to make it doable with Neutralizers compared to what it would gain. However Passivetanks have already been nerfed once, and will still be the only tank type that are not effected by Neutralizers. Passivetankers give up alot to get those strong passive tanks thou. Like speed/Tackle/DPS. Another way you could see it is; today a passive tank works against NOS and neutralizers, after the patch theyll counter the Neutralizer. Do you really believe theyll be a problem? "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Tidas Andrommeda	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:52:00 - [1508] Originally by: Fager Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Originally by: zero2espect simply not true because a minmatar or caldari pilot doesn't need cap and can zero it (either through neuts or just dumping it into the mwd). As Tidas and Faager (stupid word filter) already mentioned, the only ships that can safely ground their cap are passive shield tankers. However, the insane advantages that passive shield tanking will give you after the patch is not a problem with the nos nerf but with passive shield tanking itself. (I'll probably create a separate thread on the issue.) Again the Passive Tanker would SACRIFICE alot, to much to make it doable with Neutralizers compared to what it would gain. However Passivetanks have already been nerfed once, and will still be the only tank type that are not effected by Neutralizers. Passivetankers give up alot to get those strong passive tanks thou. Like speed/Tackle/DPS. Another way you could see it is; today a passive tank works against NOS and neutralizers, after the patch theyll counter the Neutralizer. Do you really believe theyll be a problem? The problem isn't with the drake so much as it is with the myrmidon. I can get a cap stable fit to work using 2 neuts and still have about 250+ hp/s regen with decent resists which is more than a T2 extra large shield booster, a BS module. Unlike the module, if cap hits 0 you will still get the 250+ hp/s 5 Ogre IIs are uneffected by cap recharge and will output same dps regardless of fit. (unless you fit drone specific mods/rigs) NOTE: The figures quoted are at peak recharge which is at about 30-35% shield capacity
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.08 23:13:00 - [1509] Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda Originally by: Fager Originally by: Cyan Nuevo Originally by: zero2espect simply not true because a minmatar or caldari pilot doesn't need cap and can zero it (either through neuts or just dumping it into the mwd). As Tidas and Faager (stupid word filter) already mentioned, the only ships that can safely ground their cap are passive shield tankers. However, the insane advantages that passive shield tanking will give you after the patch is not a problem with the nos nerf but with passive shield tanking itself. (I'll probably create a separate thread on the issue.) Again the Passive Tanker would SACRIFICE alot, to much to make it doable with Neutralizers compared to what it would gain. However Passivetanks have already been nerfed once, and will still be the only tank type that are not effected by Neutralizers. Passivetankers give up alot to get those strong passive tanks thou. Like speed/Tackle/DPS. Another way you could see it is; today a passive tank works against NOS and neutralizers, after the patch theyll counter the Neutralizer. Do you really believe theyll be a problem? The problem isn't with the drake so much as it is with the myrmidon. I can get a cap stable fit to work using 2 neuts and still have about 250+ hp/s regen with decent resists which is more than a T2 extra large shield booster, a BS module. Unlike the module, if cap hits 0 you will still get the 250+ hp/s 5 Ogre IIs are uneffected by cap recharge and will output same dps regardless of fit. (unless you fit drone specific mods/rigs) NOTE: The figures quoted are at peak recharge which is at about 30-35% shield capacity Hmm im no Myrmi expert but, is it capstable with2 neuts and 3-4guns? Can it tackle or did you use all mids and lows for Tank+Cap. 5 unbonused heavy drone as only dps... and no backupdrones... Im not saying it would suck but it seems it is sacrificng alot... I cant see it as a new NOSdomi.. not by miles. "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Tidas Andrommeda	Posted - 2007.08.08 23:55:00 - [1510] Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 23:59:33 REPLY TO FAAGER MOVED TO RELEVENT THREAD LINK COMING SOON
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.09 00:31:00 - [1511] Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 23:59:33 REPLY TO FAAGER MOVED TO RELEVENT THREAD LINK COMING SOON /beer "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
Tidas Andrommeda	Posted - 2007.08.09 00:45:00 - [1512] Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 09/08/2007 00:47:16 Originally by: Fager Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 08/08/2007 23:59:33 REPLY TO FAAGER MOVED TO RELEVENT THREAD LINK COMING SOON /beer OK OK put the beer away Heres your thread http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=572140&page=1#3 Edit: This is a thread that calls for the nerf of passive tanking.
zero2espect Amarr Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.09 09:21:00 - [1513] /sigh. has the world gone topsy turvy. a passive shield tanker only needs to keep enuff cap to keep me scrammed and they are immune. currently the zealot has 5 hi slots. 4 turrets. no missiles. the only mod u can fit is a neut or a nos. period. i've discussed previously how insanely stupid it would be to fit a neut to the zealot so lets forget that and say a nos is fitted. passive shield tanked drake (hello, a caldari pvp ship) or basically any minmatar passive tanker needs only to hit the scrammer, close the range and the zealot is dead. it's useless. the shield tanker either fits a neut or dumps the cap into the mwd - just making sure there is enough cap every once and a while to keep the scrammer going. this guarantees the zealot (or any other amarr ship) can't nos even the tiniest little bit of cap (it all makes a difference). add to this the fact that even if i can nos to break the scram that's good enough for me. also add to this my maxxed cap skills actually disadvantage me even worse under this scenario. the alternatives: * don't deploy this stoopid patch -> we all know ccp's history with accepting feedback so let's forget this hey? * just try to fit a meaner passive tank than anybody else -> and get absolutely creamed at every gatecamp in the universe because we'll take half an hour to align (because unlike a passive shield tanker we sacrifice agility and speed for tank) * train a third weapon spec into projectiles -> and forgo all the now even more uselss amarr ship bonuses (cap usage) * fit a cap booster to every amarr ship -> and lose the most precious amarr commodity, a mid slot. this only delays the inevitable the sad fact is that this patch does nothing to stop the domi and myrmy energy ganking setups. because either ship with a cap booster can just swap out to a passive tank, neuts and drones and basically do exactly what they do today - little to no impact. hell, if i was a myrmy/domi pilot i'd start training projectiles right now: half neuts, massive drone bay, passive tank, cap booster and the rest autocannons would be actually pretty awesome. timecapsule this statement "This is the single best change for myrmy and domi pilots that there has ever been - and you will all be complaining about it on the forums 6 weeks after the patch goes in". this is not to mention the shield tanking pilots who whould be wetting their pants and urging ccp to hurry up. as stated amarr simple cannot fit this way, with the only solution re-catogorising neuts/nos as "launchers" and adjusting hi-slots accordingly. sheesh, at this stage i'd be happy to suggest that 50% of the amarr fleet lose its useless ship bonuses and made into nos bonus making amarr really the only nos race (which it is supposed to be). the real reason that the curse is so loved by amarr pilots is becuase of 5 things. 1. for amarr it has a huge drone bay. 2. it has more than 3 mid slots. 3. it has a bonus that is actually useful (unlike 99% of amarr ships). 4. it isn't (although it is) gimped by having a useless utility slot. 5. it looks good. now it's just another useless ship and all the others suck even harder than they used to. anyway. the more responses i write in here, the more i realise i'm wasting my time... 99% of amarr pilots should think this is a horrible idea... but the hordes of fanboy minmatar pilots and caldari pilots looking for some1 else to cop a nerfing mixed in with the domi and myrmy pilots who should be trying to hide their smiles as they switch training to projectiles will have their way. the carebears couldn't care less, ccp aint nerfing torps or fiddling with bpos are they? no dev plays as amarr. so it's all upside really. the only downside is amarr pilots whinging the forums and wishing things could just once, turn the right way for them. ppl can't read these forums unless they've already subscribed anyway, so what do ccp care? zero signing out from this thread and thinks about how to consolidate accounts //sometimes less is more...zero
Areolas	Posted - 2007.08.09 11:28:00 - [1514] Heretic (Interdictor) * Hardpoints: 6 launchers (+1), 2 turrets (-2) * Fitting: 230tf (+19tf), 57mw (-9mw) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per DD level * 10% bonus to explosion velocity per DD level * 10% bonus to missile velocity per Interdictor level * 10% Interdiction Sphere Launcher ROF per Interdictor level (no change) The Heretic has similar bonuses to the Flycatcher, but the rockets only damage bonus and the low CPU makes rockets more suitable than standard missiles. The Explosion velocity bonus makes the Heretic better for taking down high speed targets vs. low speed, low signature radius targets for the Flycatcher. my heretic is too slow for close range and the fitting is too tight for tanking and tackle. so i don't see this helping!!!!!
Nipplator Amarr Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.09 11:43:00 - [1515] Heretic (Interdictor) * Hardpoints: 6 launchers (+1), 2 turrets (-2) * Fitting: 230tf (+19tf), 57mw (-9mw) Bonuses * 5% bonus to rocket damage per DD level * 10% bonus to explosion velocity per DD level * 10% bonus to missile velocity per Interdictor level * 10% Interdiction Sphere Launcher ROF per Interdictor level (no change) The Heretic has similar bonuses to the Flycatcher, but the rockets only damage bonus and the low CPU makes rockets more suitable than standard missiles. The Explosion velocity bonus makes the Heretic better for taking down high speed targets vs. low speed, low signature radius targets for the Flycatcher. my heretic is too slow for close range and the fitting is too tight for tanking and tackle. so i don't see this helping!!!!!
Banker Bilo	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:17:00 - [1516] Originally by: Fager Originally by: Father Muslum With this patch "NOS AMOUNT BONUS" means nothing. So all curse, pilgrim, ashimmu, bhaalgorn bonuses must be changed if this is coming. It means a NOS Killsmore CAP and drains more CAP. It means a NEUT Killsmore CAP at the same cap cost. Right? Oh and the Bloodraider ships are getting their NOS bonus changed to NOS+NEUT bonus. Devs confirmed this in their posts some pages back in this thread. You have absolutely no idea about nos ships. It won't matter if you take 30 or 60 , after a while you can't take anymore cap from enemy so nos amount bonuses are useless. This is a NOS patch not "use neutralizer instead" patch. Among many good changes, devs selected the most crap one. Not to mention that you can't kill capital ships now.
Moon Beans	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:08:00 - [1517] The way i see it is what this all comes down to is not the ship thats being nerfed its the SP's wasted training something like the pilgrim that is now useless, IMHO nos was too good it shouldnt have been that good to start with then people wouldnt have wasted time training for the ships that are designed to use it or would have done so with the knowledge of what they would end up with. This is not the fault of the player but rather the shortcomings of the developers, the ones that thought NOS was a good idea to start with and waisted so many peoples time and money. What I say is go ahead with the NOS nerf it will make the gameplay better that i dont disagree with, but give the people back their SP's wasted on amarr recons let them put it somewhere else or give them back their money for the gametime spent training these now useless skills for something that is your fault CCP your poor design that you can only fix with a nerf.
Moon Beans	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:27:00 - [1518] first day of the patch i suggest all amarr pilots petition continusly for weeks on end until ccp give us our SP's back so we can be a race that aint nerfed... petition petition petition petition petition petition petition petition petition petition petition
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.09 14:44:00 - [1519] Edited by: Aramendel on 09/08/2007 14:45:20 Originally by: Banker Bilo Not to mention that you can't kill capital ships now. While there are some problems with cap warfare specialized ships draining carriers isn't that much of a problem. You can use nosses to power neuts till a very low cap level of the carrier. Like drain yourself with neuts till 0-5%, then use noses to get yourself up enough to use a neut, use the neut again, etc.
Lee KyongAh	Posted - 2007.08.09 15:11:00 - [1520] wow this is a long thread. Main issues with nos: A battleship can't instadrain an interceptor anymore, and some say neut will do the job and some say it won't. If the neut will do the job then I don't see this as a problem if it dosn't then..... :( Nos Domi is worthless now and neut domi just don't work. Well I can't say how worthless the nos domi will be or if a neut domi will work or not since I don't fly gallente. However in my mind then there is something wrong with the very concept of a nos domi as one of the most respected/feared ships in the game. The ship has no bonuses to nos and yet to fit as many nos as possible seems to be a setup that is vastly superior to rails/blasters that actually benefit from the ships bonuses. Some say that giving up a gun is a tradeoff for the nos. Yes it is a tradeoff but the thing is that a domi with it's drones alone has a dps that is good enough to kill every other battleship once it's cap is gone, passive shield tanks excluded(or so I am told, I don't fly caldari). This makes the nos domi into an "I win" ship in most cases. So yes you give up a gun and get something much better instead. Some have said that the Nos can be used by every race and we should just learn to fit our ships to counter it, and that it creates a ballance between new and old players. Well the Gallente droneboats are the only ships with an unaffected dps that is large enough to effectively be able to sacrifice their weapons in favor of a nos, fit nos on a maelstrom or whatever and it's drones will kill you sometime next year, unless you mannage to kill them first, and if you do then it has no replacements (assuming heavy drones) Well the domi is a blaster/rail boat as well as a drone carrier don't see why a neut domi should work any better than say a heavily shield tanked neut scorpion. Another issue that has been brought up is that making "nos worhless" removes choices and ccp could just as well build the mods into the ships. Well choices are still there, but now the ship might actually have it's best performance with using modules that are associated with it's bonuses. In fact I believe there is more of a choice now than before, since nos was THE domi setup. As for ballance between old and new players well personally I would see it as utterly unfair if I could consistently win against a 30 mil sp pure pvp pilot, or if a lvl 10 fighter could win against a lvl 60-70 fighter in wow, but well guess that is just me... The amarr recons are ships that actually get a bonus to nos/neut so that is something entirely different. These ships are kind of worthless in large gangs so in my mind they should be very strong solo. I don't favor any kind of "I Win" setups so if they are as unstopable as they seem to be in here (I can't fly them so can't tell) then yes I agree that they need a nerf. As for the Khanid changes well wonder why caldari don't use these missiles ??? Just a guess they are inferrior to standard missiles ... Well I am gona try them out anyway
Tidas Andrommeda	Posted - 2007.08.09 18:38:00 - [1521] Edited by: Tidas Andrommeda on 09/08/2007 18:38:44 @Zero: You won't be missed. If you haven't noticed many pilots that fly Amarr (me included) don't mind this nos change as much as you do and yes, I fly Amarr in PvE and PvP so stow that argument where I'll never see it again. As to purposefully dumping cap, the ONLY ships that could do what you suggest are passively tanked ships (which, unless I'm missing something, include the Myrmi and the Drake exclusively. You could passive tank other ships but I'm not sure they would even come close to the effectiveness of the Drake or Myrmi). And unlike an armor tanker, passive tankers get locked in 3 seconds cause of their gigantic sig radius thanks to our LSE IIs. Open your eyes...it stops the nosdomi cause now it can't drain your cap AND run a dual rep setup into infinity. Now it has to fit neuts to completely destroy your cap. Check your facts...I don't have to sign in to get to these forums, I just have to sign in to reply. The forums are completely public as far as reading goes. It just seems the public dismisses your weak arguments and takes it like a normal adult would. This doesn't destroy anything more than what it was meant to. The myrmi will still be fairly effective but thats an issue with passive tanking and not nos. @Banker: It is a "use neuts instead patch" Originally by: CCP Fendahl Migration to Neutralizers With the changes it is in general necessary to rely more on neutralizers than before. Note this is from a dev post in this very thread. Also you only need to keep a cappie under 70% cap since it takes that much to jump out. Keeping your own cap under 70% to ensure this seems...well...too easy. @Moon: Ever play a game before in your life? There is never a perfect initial release and there are almost always balance issues. This is how it works and this is what patches are for. Edit
LvxOccvlta	Posted - 2007.08.09 19:47:00 - [1522] Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda Ok. I'll take it seriously now. The problem with the curse, and really nos in general, was that you could completely kill someones cap with little to no effect on yourself (sacrificing DPS is a BS excuse especially since the main problems are with drone boats where the majority of DPS comes from drones) The pilgrim is a recon ship and still does that well, with the cyno bonus etc. As for solo pvp etc. Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser imo (unless the BC+ has terrible fittings) and were meant to play more of a support role. This is less true for the Curse, but taking on well fit BSs is, well, BS. I'm sorry all your time and money was spent training for something that will now be nerfed, but honestly now you're more in line with the other races and no longer a solo pwnmobile. Any other points you'd like to bring up? I'll be happy to reasonably respond to them without sarcasm etc. cheers +1 intelligence Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS? Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that?
Julius Romanus Free Space Development Cartel	Posted - 2007.08.09 21:36:00 - [1523] Originally by: LvxOccvlta Originally by: Tidas Andrommeda Ok. I'll take it seriously now. The problem with the curse, and really nos in general, was that you could completely kill someones cap with little to no effect on yourself (sacrificing DPS is a BS excuse especially since the main problems are with drone boats where the majority of DPS comes from drones) The pilgrim is a recon ship and still does that well, with the cyno bonus etc. As for solo pvp etc. Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser imo (unless the BC+ has terrible fittings) and were meant to play more of a support role. This is less true for the Curse, but taking on well fit BSs is, well, BS. I'm sorry all your time and money was spent training for something that will now be nerfed, but honestly now you're more in line with the other races and no longer a solo pwnmobile. Any other points you'd like to bring up? I'll be happy to reasonably respond to them without sarcasm etc. cheers +1 intelligence Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS? Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that? You can properly fly a bs in 4 weeks on a noob account? Tell me how, I've got 4 weeks to spare.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:23:00 - [1524] Originally by: LvxOccvlta Recon ships weren't meant to solo anything bigger than a cruiser? They're not supposed to take on a BC or BS? Well crap man, why even train them at all? I can spend 4 weeks on a noob account to train a BS, but 8 months training to properly use a Curse. Where's the balance in that? 8 months? What did you spend the time on? This "nerf" effected ONE module of which its largest size you could use your SECOND day of life in EvE. So the ship is worthless because of a module that took 2 days of training? Kindof screams the module was over-powered if it takes 2 days to train yet its alteration completely destroys a command ship. Maybe it should have taken 100+ days to use Large NOS, since it takes that long to use BS-sized T2 weapons.... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:20:00 - [1525] Just popping in to say that if the NOS nerf goes through, ... it won't go through without serious Pilgrim boost. (or a lot of whine)
Pinpisa Jormao	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:24:00 - [1526] Also The more missile ships and less turret ships is a tracking disruptor nerf. So it's a Curse/Pilgrim nerf. This needs to be compensated by giving Amarr point laser defense which destroys all Caldari missiles.
WhiteTigerGod	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:55:00 - [1527] OK this idea for NOS is total trash. It completely nurfs all ships that sue NOS and ust makes ships like NOS Domis and Curses total crap. No1 know who has read it has found any way to make the new NOS work with these ships and isnt worth it. I know at least 5 ppl right now who are going to sell their char if this patch goes through due to the fact their ship is pointless to fly now, and one of them is me. I implore you DONT DO IT PLZ!!!
wicker man	Posted - 2007.08.10 01:03:00 - [1528] PLZ PLZ DONT KILL the Curse that ive worked so hard for, dont kill my myr, domi, or how bout my WHOLE AMARR RACE! I do agree that nos might be a bit overpowered but this patch would make some ships total trash, can i get these SP points for amarr ships back somehow in minmatar ships now? just plz take some other way to go about nerfing the nos.
Fager Thunderstruck.	Posted - 2007.08.10 01:53:00 - [1529] Originally by: Lee KyongAh As for the Khanid changes well wonder why caldari don't use these missiles ??? Just a guess they are inferrior to standard missiles ... Well I am gona try them out anyway Once upon a time there where Ravens using 2x MWDs. CCP realised this must not be, so they nerfed Caldaris Mass and Agility. Then they Nerfed the 2x MWD. Today Caldari are a slow race, often compared to station batteries. With no speed there is no running away, and low speed with shield tank means no close combat becouse of Bad tackling and being kited. Therefor HAMs are not used much by Caldari Pilots. Also HAMs with high PG usage doesnt fit well on Caldari Missile Boats with low PG. "I can predict the movement of stars, but not the madness of men"
RisenPhoenix Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.10 02:17:00 - [1530] Khanid ships needed to be changed they never made alot of sense to me, kind of caught in a limbo but forcing amarr to use the missiles no one else uses and they don't have the skills for is laaaame. Also to fix nos give ships nos slots, 1 for most ships, 2 for battleships, and 4 or 5 for the ships with a nos speciality, would solve 99% of the problems people have with nos and wouldn't ruin it.

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