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What point a Cerberus?

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John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:11:00 - [1] First this isn't a moan because I don't even fly them these days. With the onset of Battlecruisers, Command Ships and now Khanid MK. 2, what is the point of a Cerberus these days? A Drake and a Nighthawk have a superior tank and greater DPS potential than a Cerberus. Sure they're slow but with the size of some of these ships tanks, who cares? A Sacrilege, once the changes go through, will have superior speed, lower mass therefore greater manuverability and potentially a greater tank and with Assualt Missiles it will definately have better DPS. One might argue that the changes will allow a Cerberus to outrange a Sacrelige but a Drake and Nighthawk will have the same range and a Drake is easier to train for since you don't need Caldari Cruiser V (only III) like you do for a Cerberus. I don't think the same argument can be applied to the Nighthawk because a Damnation will have one less Launcher slot so at least on paper, the Nighthawk should still do greater DPS. Unfortunately, a Cerberus won't due to the aforementioned reasons. So my question is, why would anyone want to use a Ceberus these days? Make a Difference
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:13:00 - [2] Long range missile spam.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:40:00 - [3] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Long range missile spam. Which a Drake or Nighthawk does better and where a Drake does it not only better but for less training time and less money. Make a Difference
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:49:00 - [4] Cerberus is a bit more mobile than the others. Erm. That's about it actually. Actually, it's not a bad HAM platform, where the Drake and Nighthawk can't really, because of their abysmal range. But otherwise, it falls into the faction ship category of 'vaguely nice, but other ships do it better'.
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:53:00 - [5] drake doesn't have bonus to velocity so can't shoot as far as a cerb Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Sobic Kurophsky Incognito Inc	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:58:00 - [6] Its not a brick like the BC's It has the highest speed msls in game.(Anti-nano Anti-inti ftw) It can passive tank very well. Just like some other ships, just because it doesn't "Do it all" doesnt make it useless and the longer people think that the more fun it is when my Cerberas owns someone. Just having msls that can run down many Inties is priceless enough.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.12 18:59:00 - [7] Originally by: James Lyrus Cerberus is a bit more mobile than the others. Erm. That's about it actually. Actually, it's not a bad HAM platform, where the Drake and Nighthawk can't really, because of their abysmal range. But otherwise, it falls into the faction ship category of 'vaguely nice, but other ships do it better'. Aye at the moment but check the dev blog. A Sacrliege will have less mass. Less mass on top of better tank and better DPS. Originally by: Darpz drake doesn't have bonus to velocity so can't shoot as far as a cerb Who cares when you've the shield to get in range or can warp on top of them? My point here is that the Cerb does nothing the other ships can do better. Therefore, what's the point in training/using a Cerb? Make a Difference
Delnas White-Noise Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:05:00 - [8] Why do you need speed when you have really long range & high speed missiles? Sure, a Sac will tank slight better, and do slightly more DPS (about 5-8 more DPS in fact), but a Cerb's missiles, as previously stated, are better for gunning down Cepters/Nanos. Plus, because of the missile range instead of ship speed, its a better ratting ship (or at least better for lazy people). The Cerb is still useful. Even though I can fly both a Sac & Cerb I just bought a Cerb yesterday. I don't believe I am a fool for doing so, I love the ship for what I want it to do. **** White-Noise Nuff said.
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:07:00 - [9] Originally by: John McCreedy My point here is that the Cerb does nothing the other ships can do better. Therefore, what's the point in training Prerequisites for HACs help with all other ships. Only kill you might not find worthy is caldari cruiser lvl5 - but it also unlocks eagle, is prereq for commands, unlocks logistic ships. Originally by: John McCreedy /using a Cerb? Roaming gangs. Fleet anti support (if your gunnery sucks and you cant use eagle, cerb is much better than drake thx to way longer missile range/speed). Otherwise you could also say, whats the point of: 1. ishtar (domi does it better) 2. zealot (harbinger? geddon?) 3. vaga (snake machariels are insanely good, for less iskies you can het hurricane). etc.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:20:00 - [10] Originally by: John McCreedy Originally by: James Lyrus Cerberus is a bit more mobile than the others. Erm. That's about it actually. Actually, it's not a bad HAM platform, where the Drake and Nighthawk can't really, because of their abysmal range. But otherwise, it falls into the faction ship category of 'vaguely nice, but other ships do it better'. Aye at the moment but check the dev blog. A Sacrliege will have less mass. Less mass on top of better tank and better DPS. Originally by: Darpz drake doesn't have bonus to velocity so can't shoot as far as a cerb Who cares when you've the shield to get in range or can warp on top of them? My point here is that the Cerb does nothing the other ships can do better. Therefore, what's the point in training/using a Cerb? Over the Sac, it'll have about 10km more range. And the same damage, provided it sticks to kinetic. Shields vs. mobility, well that's a different matter - I dread has shields to get in range, but you'd still use an inty when you actually want to do it this week. I mostly agree though - for most of the roles of the cerb, it's outclassed by the Drake, Nighthawk, and soon the Sacrilege.
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:33:00 - [11] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: John McCreedy My point here is that the Cerb does nothing the other ships can do better. Therefore, what's the point in training Prerequisites for HACs help with all other ships. Only kill you might not find worthy is caldari cruiser lvl5 - but it also unlocks eagle, is prereq for commands, unlocks logistic ships. Originally by: John McCreedy /using a Cerb? Roaming gangs. Fleet anti support (if your gunnery sucks and you cant use eagle, cerb is much better than drake thx to way longer missile range/speed). Otherwise you could also say, whats the point of: 1. ishtar (domi does it better) 2. zealot (harbinger? geddon?) 3. vaga (snake machariels are insanely good, for less iskies you can het hurricane). etc. Someone who's going to train Missiles isn't going to be interested in an Eagle. Therefore they're going to train for a Drake then eventually a Nighthawk. Sure training for a Nighthawk unlocks an Eagle but with no Rail skills, they won't be using one and since the Drake out damages and out tanks a Cerb, they won't use a Cerb, they'll use a Drake until they can use a Nighthawk. As for the second part of your reply, again I'll say it. The Drake, Nighthawk and (post-changes) Sacrelige out tanks and out damages a Cerb and whilst it can't missile spam from as far, if you're attacking then you're going to warp in at your optimal therefore the range advantage is nullified and if defending, due to the superior tank, you have the ability to shrug off a Cerb's damage to get within your range. Similary, turret ships generally have better DPS so will warp out if you warp in outside your range or MWD into their range. Make a Difference
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:41:00 - [12] Edited by: Lisento Slaven on 12/08/2007 19:43:37 It's still the best long range missile spammer for heavy missiles. Is it not? Rate of fire, Damage (kinetic), velocity, and flight time bonus. That screams best long range missile spammer. I don't see how a drake can be better at it as a long range missile spammer. Someone implied earlier in the thread that a drake and nighthawk "do it better." I don't think so... --- Put in space whales!
Justice Bringer Minmatar Combined Technologies	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:46:00 - [13] Simple answer, because I can and it's fun to fly. The Drake is esier to train for and that's just going to be the downfall for many pilots who simply won't have the patience to train the necessary skills to use the more specialised ships or even benefit from having those skills. Trust me when I say that all the skills required for the Cerberus (Mechanic lvl 5, Engineering, Spaceship Command etc) are necessary/relevant for most if not all ships. You cannot even pilot a Nighthawk unless you have HAS lvl 4 so your point really doesn't hold much weight at all. Sure you can stick to tech 1 ships, but the tech II ships still shine in their own right and that's why I still use my Cerberus. Justice
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:51:00 - [14] cerberus really doesnt have much point at all. Sell it and start training gunnery skills
Morn Judith Caldari Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:07:00 - [15] I completely agree with John. I had left the game for a bit, and sold my character. When I came back, after about 4 months and trained up a new Caldari char (Caldari 4TW!), it obviously took a bit to get back to HACS. Well, the first obvious stepping stone is the Drake. So I run my lvl 3 missions in my Drake for however long, and it does a superb job. THen the day comes that I can get into a Cerebus. Finally! I spend the money, which, by the way, I was EXTREMELY happy to see them around 80 million! When I used to fly them, they were around 250 mil, I'm sure we all remember those days. Anyways, so I pimp it out with the best rigs, T2 launchers, and faction mods. Then I take it on my lvl 3s to get a new feel for it, and it's not outperforming the Drake, at all! Then I went over the stats in my head and on paper. I was very depressed when I realized how obsolete the Cerebus is now. For the money that I spend on the Cerebus alone, I can buy a Drake, and fit some very nice hardware on it. Not only will it be way cheaper, but the DPS is much better. The tank on the Drake is only a little less than the Cerebus, but thats only because the Cerebus does have better starting resists. But with more mid slots on the Drake, and an extra rig hardpoint, you end up with more shield, and almost better, if not actually higher, resists. I understand the Cerebus' role is to spam long range missiles, but as John has pointed out the Drake does that also. The Cerebus needs a little more oompf. It needs a new bonus that will set it apart from it's peers. Or at least something that will get it's DPS up there so that a T1 ship won't have better DPS that it. If we spend all that time to get a HAC, we need to know that the training wasn't worthless. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:10:00 - [16] The drake does not outperform the Cerberus as a long range missile spammer. --- Put in space whales!
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Long range missile spam. a. Long range missile spam is useless in PVP... as the target will be vaportized or gone by the time the missiles hit... b. ...therefore the Cerb is best used in PVE (as are missiles in general.) c. However, the Raven does a better job at PVE than the Cerb. d. The Cerberus is novelty ship in PVP, and is a subpar choice (as are missiles in general.) This thread has been my crusade on the topic. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:43:00 - [18] The Cerb beats the NH and Drake hands down at taking out ceptors and dictors due to it's missile velocity bonus. Assault Launcher IIs are simply lethal with precision missiles loaded. It's also a decent HAM platform, but it has to sacrifice tank to run it. - -
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:14:00 - [19] Long range missile spam is not useless in PVP because targets are not vaporized before the missiles get there. Fleet fight does not equal the only kind of fighting in EVE. Frig/Interceptor + Cerb can be fun. --- Put in space whales!
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:21:00 - [20] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Long range missile spam is not useless in PVP because targets are not vaporized before the missiles get there. Fleet fight does not equal the only kind of fighting in EVE. Frig/Interceptor + Cerb can be fun. Fleet engagements have quickly become the status quo of PVP in EVE... life in 0.0 demands it. If you think I'm out of touch with current PVP dynamics... you'd be wrong. Yes, small wandering gangs still exist... and small scale PVP still happens. However, please explain why you'd prefer to have a Cerb with a small wandering gang versus an Ishtar, Vagabond, or a handful of other cruiser sized ships? Once again, the Cerb is a novelty ship that serves a very, very small niche that most any other ship can do twice as well. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:33:00 - [21] The cerb is kinda gimp for pvp,i must agree...Although it does have its niche(aka launching missiles at longrange distances but at the same time be able to hit at closerange). Its too versatile to beat specialised ships in gangs,whilst at the same time isnt the best ship to solo with. __________________________________________ Yes it is great being amarr. I am minmatar,fly amarr,use gellente drones and am in caldari space.
Guillame Herschel Gallente Cheers Restaurant and Bar Coalition Of Empires	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:40:00 - [22] Cerberus gets its missile velocity bonus from the Caracal. So if you want fast missiles, Caracal is a cheaper means to the same bonus. Plus it has 3 rig slots like any other T1 ship, and can fit 3 Hydraulic Bay Thruster rigs, whereas the T2 Cerberus can only fit 2 of them. Caracal missiles are therefore potentially faster than the Cerberus in all cases, and a Caracal is a better risk financially versus low-cost small ships anyway. -- Guile can always trump hardware --
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:54:00 - [23] Originally by: Tovarishch Originally by: Lisento Slaven Long range missile spam is not useless in PVP because targets are not vaporized before the missiles get there. Fleet fight does not equal the only kind of fighting in EVE. Frig/Interceptor + Cerb can be fun. Fleet engagements have quickly become the status quo of PVP in EVE... life in 0.0 demands it. If you think I'm out of touch with current PVP dynamics... you'd be wrong. Yes, small wandering gangs still exist... and small scale PVP still happens. However, please explain why you'd prefer to have a Cerb with a small wandering gang versus an Ishtar, Vagabond, or a handful of other cruiser sized ships? Once again, the Cerb is a novelty ship that serves a very, very small niche that most any other ship can do twice as well. If you want to use the "prefer" argument to say the cerb is pointless then you can use that against any ship in EVE...there's always a reason to prefer something else over the other. Why would you prefer an Ishtar over a Rook when you want ECM? Why would you prefer a Rook over an Armageddon when you want pwn lasers of death? --- Put in space whales!
KD.Fluffy The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:57:00 - [24] Quote: Originally by: Tovarishch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Lisento Slaven -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Long range missile spam is not useless in PVP because targets are not vaporized before the missiles get there. Fleet fight does not equal the only kind of fighting in EVE. Frig/Interceptor + Cerb can be fun. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fleet engagements have quickly become the status quo of PVP in EVE... life in 0.0 demands it. If you think I'm out of touch with current PVP dynamics... you'd be wrong. Yes, small wandering gangs still exist... and small scale PVP still happens. However, please explain why you'd prefer to have a Cerb with a small wandering gang versus an Ishtar, Vagabond, or a handful of other cruiser sized ships? Once again, the Cerb is a novelty ship that serves a very, very small niche that most any other ship can do twice as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to use the "prefer" argument to say the cerb is pointless then you can use that against any ship in EVE...there's always a reason to prefer something else over the other. Why would you prefer an Ishtar over a Rook when you want ECM? Why would you prefer a Rook over an Armageddon when you want pwn lasers of death? I would prefer a t1 frigat in my gang that can tackle to a cerb... Cerb is a piece of crap, it has no place in pvp. Damage sucks, mobility sucks, ewar sucks, tank sucks. What the hell is the point of it?
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.08.12 21:59:00 - [25] Originally by: KD.Fluffy Quote: Originally by: Tovarishch -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Lisento Slaven -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Long range missile spam is not useless in PVP because targets are not vaporized before the missiles get there. Fleet fight does not equal the only kind of fighting in EVE. Frig/Interceptor + Cerb can be fun. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fleet engagements have quickly become the status quo of PVP in EVE... life in 0.0 demands it. If you think I'm out of touch with current PVP dynamics... you'd be wrong. Yes, small wandering gangs still exist... and small scale PVP still happens. However, please explain why you'd prefer to have a Cerb with a small wandering gang versus an Ishtar, Vagabond, or a handful of other cruiser sized ships? Once again, the Cerb is a novelty ship that serves a very, very small niche that most any other ship can do twice as well. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you want to use the "prefer" argument to say the cerb is pointless then you can use that against any ship in EVE...there's always a reason to prefer something else over the other. Why would you prefer an Ishtar over a Rook when you want ECM? Why would you prefer a Rook over an Armageddon when you want pwn lasers of death? I would prefer a t1 frigat in my gang that can tackle to a cerb... Cerb is a piece of crap, it has no place in pvp. Damage sucks, mobility sucks, ewar sucks, tank sucks. What the hell is the point of it? Fluffy, the point of the Cerb is to drop Gistii boosters for us. Don't be a dolt. Liang Originally by: "QproQ" When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
Hannobaal Gallente Dragonfire Intergalactic Crusaders of Krom Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.12 22:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Tovarishch Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Long range missile spam. a. Long range missile spam is useless in PVP... as the target will be vaportized or gone by the time the missiles hit... Yes, provided the missile ships are firing at the primary along with the rest of them, but there's nothing that says they have to. ------------------
Lady Khanid Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.12 22:10:00 - [27] Long Range (180km) Signal Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Short range Sub 70km Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Anti Frig Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Photon Scattering Field II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II The above works for me...I especially like the issle spamage Anti Frig setup in Gangs and defence for Sniper fleets, or gate camps. However i admit i have every missle skill maxed at level 5 except HAM spec 5 (4) and Heavy missle Spec 5 (Also 4). Also i have Level 5 Hac so i do get almost 100% out of the performance of the Cerb.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations	Posted - 2007.08.12 22:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Lisento Slaven The drake does not outperform the Cerberus as a long range missile spammer. Yes, we have a ship that can spam heavy missiles from 180km away. The question at hand is: do we need that? Or wouldn't that dual range bonus be better applied to HAMs, bringing them into medium range (a bit more than 30km)? --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Lydia Browm Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.12 22:43:00 - [29] Someone correct me if im wrong but with missile skills V does a HAM (the long range version ) go like 60km so won't it go like 120 km on the cerb ??? and the fact it doesn't have to gain as much ground as a sac and a sac is getting a buff after al; this time , and the sac can't fit tanks that rep themselves if u run out of cap can they, well nto aswell as the cerb anyway ___________________________________________ Cookies if you hijack or sign my sig. There tasty...
nakKEDK Gallente North Face Force	Posted - 2007.08.13 00:12:00 - [30] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: John McCreedy My point here is that the Cerb does nothing the other ships can do better. Therefore, what's the point in training Prerequisites for HACs help with all other ships. Only kill you might not find worthy is caldari cruiser lvl5 - but it also unlocks eagle, is prereq for commands, unlocks logistic ships. 1 Originally by: John McCreedy /using a Cerb? Roaming gangs. Fleet anti support (if your gunnery sucks and you cant use eagle, cerb is much better than drake thx to way longer missile range/speed). Otherwise you could also say, whats the point of: 1. ishtar (domi does it better) 2. zealot (harbinger? geddon?) 3. vaga (snake machariels are insanely good, for less iskies you can het hurricane). etc. 1. ishtar is better than dominix because you can nano it. 2. you're right 3.vaga is faster has better tank, get 10% turret falloff per lvl, vaga is so much better than hurricane. dont bother arguing with me, cause im allways right. Well at least sometimes.

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