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Murtific Caldari Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.15 12:37:00 - [61] Originally by: Lady Khanid Long Range (180km) Signal Amplifier II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Sensor Booster II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Heavy Missile Launcher II Short range Sub 70km Reactor Control Unit II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Reactor Control Unit II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Anti Frig Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Photon Scattering Field II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II Assault Missile Launcher II The above works for me...I especially like the issle spamage Anti Frig setup in Gangs and defence for Sniper fleets, or gate camps. However i admit i have every missle skill maxed at level 5 except HAM spec 5 (4) and Heavy missle Spec 5 (Also 4). Also i have Level 5 Hac so i do get almost 100% out of the performance of the Cerb. I've got to add my 0.0 Setup for roaming..... =] High: 5 x HAM II's (faction ammo) 1 x Med Dim Nos Med: 1 x Warp Disruptor II 4 x Phased Muon Sensor Dampers Lows: 3 x BCU II 1 x CPR Love this, great for catching frege cloaking ravens =]
Captain Schmungles Caldari Freelancing Corp Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.08.15 15:15:00 - [62] 1. Neither a Drake nor a Nighthawk will have the same range as a Cerberus. Check the ship bonuses. The Cerberus gets a bonus to missile velocity and missile flight time. The Drake does not get any range bonus, and the Nighthawk does not get a bonus to flight time. 2. Drakes and Nighthawks are battlecruisers, and have a large enough sig radius that they can be hit by cruise missiles for full damage. Depending on how you passive tank a Drake, all those shield extenders might make your sig radius large enough that you can be hit by torpedoes for full damage. Cerbs are cruisers, hence they cannot be hit by battleship-class missiles for full damage. 3. With their velocity and flight time bonuses, Cerbs make fantastic HAM boats. 4. If you are concerned about people warping to you when engaging at max range in a Cerb, try not engaging at max range. As long as you are not 150km or more away from someone, they cannot warp to you. I would be interested to see a Sacrilege vs. a Cerb when the patch is released, under the following conditions: Start at 100km, Sacrilege pilot must fly to the Cerb to get in range, Cerb pilot can move to stay at range. Oh, and with respect to point 2, the simple solution is to active tank your Drake. I have an active setup on mine, and it rocks.
Agent Li	Posted - 2007.08.15 15:22:00 - [63] Originally by: Delnas Why do you need speed when you have really long range & high speed missiles? So someone with rails doesn't blow you away. ------------------ "Don't be afraid to take advantage of your enemy's weaknesses. Becasuse winning is everything after all."
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.08.15 15:29:00 - [64] Cerbie has a smaller sig radius than any of the bigger ships (obviously) This means that it recieves significantly less dps from missile spamming. Like in missions, or guristas ratting. Just an example. (From the player guide missiles section) Damage reduction from torps: Drake: 29% Cerbie: 66% Cruise: Drake: 6% Cerbie: 54% Prcision cruise: Drake: 0% Cerbie: 33% Even though damage by guns is not quite so predictable, the speed and small sig radius of the cerbie also reduce the dps it would recieve from guns. The drake might be bigger, better and meaner, but it also takes more damage, that the cerbie can avoid by being smaller. This means it doesn't need to tank quite as much and enables it to solo lvl 4 missions. My corp mate used to solo 8/10 plexes in a cerbie back in the day, don't know if is still possible, though... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
John McCreedy Caldari Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2007.08.15 15:49:00 - [65] Originally by: Laboratus The drake might be bigger, better and meaner, but it also takes more damage, that the cerbie can avoid by being smaller. This means it doesn't need to tank quite as much and enables it to solo lvl 4 missions. My corp mate used to solo 8/10 plexes in a cerbie back in the day, don't know if is still possible, though... I tested a passive tanked Drake last night against a Dominix and a Raven and it easily tanked their damage output. Even with their reduced Sig radius a Cerb could not tank that level of damage. Make a Difference
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.08.15 15:56:00 - [66] Originally by: John McCreedy Originally by: Laboratus The drake might be bigger, better and meaner, but it also takes more damage, that the cerbie can avoid by being smaller. This means it doesn't need to tank quite as much and enables it to solo lvl 4 missions. My corp mate used to solo 8/10 plexes in a cerbie back in the day, don't know if is still possible, though... I tested a passive tanked Drake last night against a Dominix and a Raven and it easily tanked their damage output. Even with their reduced Sig radius a Cerb could not tank that level of damage. What drones did the domi use? Heavy drones are cruiser sized weapons (sig res 125m) and as such suffer no penalty when shooting cruiser sized targets (sig rad 125m). And what were the fits? A neut gank domi should do enough dps to punch through passive tanks. ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:05:00 - [67] 's pretty good at mullering frigates with assault launchers. I mean, that's clearly a critical ship niche.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:24:00 - [68] What's the stats on a cerberus with HAM's using t1 and t2 ammo (range and damage if anyone knows them)? What are the stats on the Sacrilege with HAM's using t1 and t2 ammo (range and damage)? I've seen some people say the cerb gets 30km range with HAM's but not sure what ammo type and what the dps of the cerb will be compared to the Sacrilege using ham's of different types. --- Put in space whales!
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:33:00 - [69] Originally by: Lisento Slaven What's the stats on a cerberus with HAM's using t1 and t2 ammo (range and damage if anyone knows them)? What are the stats on the Sacrilege with HAM's using t1 and t2 ammo (range and damage)? I've seen some people say the cerb gets 30km range with HAM's but not sure what ammo type and what the dps of the cerb will be compared to the Sacrilege using ham's of different types. I get 23km out of a HAM cerb, with HAC 4, and 'missile range' skills at 4. Both Cerb and Sac get ROF and Damage - although the Sac gets it on all missile types, the cerb gets it on kinetic HAMS _and_ Heavy missiles.
Mercurye Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.15 18:48:00 - [70] The Cerberus would be great with a 6th launcher.. :) --~--~--~--~ ~NOTE: Freak~
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.08.15 19:12:00 - [71] Originally by: John McCreedy Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Long range missile spam. Which a Drake or Nighthawk does better and where a Drake does it not only better but for less training time and less money. Very wrong. The Cerb has much better range. The problem is that missle boats aren't really good for sniping. Unless there are a bunch of tacklers holding down the target and if that's the case there really is no need to stay out at 150km. What playing Amarr feels like.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.15 19:21:00 - [72] Originally by: Almarez Originally by: John McCreedy Originally by: Wayward Hooligan Long range missile spam. Which a Drake or Nighthawk does better and where a Drake does it not only better but for less training time and less money. Very wrong. The Cerb has much better range. The problem is that missle boats aren't really good for sniping. Unless there are a bunch of tacklers holding down the target and if that's the case there really is no need to stay out at 150km. Bingo! We have a winner. 1. If you use the Cerb's bonuses you are flying a long-range range missile boat. Missiles will have to fly a significant distance to reach their target... and will do less DPS than other dedicated snipers using turrets that have instantaneous damage. 2. Throw the Cerb's bonuses away and fly it as a short-range ship and it will still do less DPS than other dedicated short-range combat ships... while being slow, less, agile, and more massive. The Cerb does nothing that other ships can't do as well. The problem is that missile velocity is simply too low for the concept of a long-range missile boat to be effective. All life is sacred... until the client says otherwise.
BinaryFinary Crilly Shipments Unlimited	Posted - 2007.08.15 19:48:00 - [73] I believe the point of the Cerberus is this: There didnt uset to be Battle Cruisers and Command Ships, therefore if you wanted better than a Caracal but not up to BS you had to have Creb/Eagle, thats it, no week old charachters in drakes, no supertanking Command ships just people in Cruisers and BS and if you trained long enough Hacs. KTHXBYE
Ryysa Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.15 20:11:00 - [74] No idea if anyone mentioned this, but. Nanoed up cerb with ham's is fairly scary. EW Guide - KB Tool - PVP Event
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.15 22:02:00 - [75] Originally by: James Lyrus Both Cerb and Sac get ROF and Damage - although the Sac gets it on all missile types, the cerb gets it on kinetic HAMS _and_ Heavy missiles. Sac gets its damage bonus only on HAMs.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.15 22:03:00 - [76] Originally by: Ryysa No idea if anyone mentioned this, but. Nanoed up cerb with ham's is fairly scary. I'm still waiting to see the math of anyone who knows the damage and range a cerb can do with a full rack of HAM's using both forms of T2 and the T1. and all skills to 5. --- Put in space whales!
Aramendel Amarr Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.15 22:16:00 - [77] The problem is? The dps is (vs a 125 sig or bigger target) 25% more than with heavies and the range is HAM base speed * flight time * 1.5^4 (remove around 2-3 km from that to get the actual max range since it takes a bit for the missile to accellerate to max speed).
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.15 22:42:00 - [78] Edited by: d026 on 15/08/2007 22:47:05 Edited by: d026 on 15/08/2007 22:45:22 Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: Ryysa No idea if anyone mentioned this, but. Nanoed up cerb with ham's is fairly scary. I'm still waiting to see the math of anyone who knows the damage and range a cerb can do with a full rack of HAM's using both forms of T2 and the T1. and all skills to 5. 546 dps up to 20k with TII rage 387 dps up to 95k with TII javelin 546 dps up to 23k with dread guristas 523 dps up to 23k with cn 455 dps up to 23k with t1 setup is with 3 x bcu, tp, bayloading and warhead rigs. all skills lvl 6. just as a comparison.. deimos can dish out 658dps @ 18k or 812 dps at 12k + is faster than you and probably doesent have much weaker tank:)
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.15 23:14:00 - [79] Originally by: d026 Edited by: d026 on 15/08/2007 22:56:53 Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: Ryysa No idea if anyone mentioned this, but. Nanoed up cerb with ham's is fairly scary. I'm still waiting to see the math of anyone who knows the damage and range a cerb can do with a full rack of HAM's using both forms of T2 and the T1. and all skills to 5. 546 dps up to 20k with TII rage 387 dps up to 95k with TII javelin 546 dps up to 23k with dread guristas 523 dps up to 23k with cn 455 dps up to 23k with t1 setup is with 3 x bcu, tp, bayloading and warhead rigs. all skills lvl V. just as a comparison.. deimos can dish out 658dps @ 18k or 812 dps at 12k + is faster than you and probably doesent have much weaker tank:) Also, keep in mind, that calculated DPS is assuming no flight time on the missiles... which is, as we all know, not the case. My crusade for faster missiles.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.15 23:27:00 - [80] Originally by: Tovarishch Also, keep in mind, that calculated DPS is assuming no flight time on the missiles... which is, as we all know, not the case. There's no other way to calculate DPS because not all shots with guns hit in the game either and yada yada all other crap that is involved. The ship looks fine as a close up HAM ship fitted to do damage. Not to mention it's awesome at long range missile fights. If I had caldari cruiser 5 I would fly a HAM cerb. This is also considering that I have amarr cruiser 5, minmatar cruiser 5, and BC 5. Last argument I saw was that the Cerberus' role is pointless (long range missile spam). In my opinion its role as long range missile spam in the form of either T2 heavy or HAM's is both fine. Bringing other ships into the argument doesn't help anyones side because you can say "Well why not use X instead of Y" in almost every argument like that. Cerberus looks like a preference ship...if you like missiles and like shooting them far, fast, and with a good amount of explosions, it's cool. --- Put in space whales!
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.15 23:32:00 - [81] Edited by: Tovarishch on 15/08/2007 23:34:09 Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: Tovarishch Also, keep in mind, that calculated DPS is assuming no flight time on the missiles... which is, as we all know, not the case. There's no other way to calculate DPS because not all shots with guns hit in the game either and yada yada all other crap that is involved. The ship looks fine as a close up HAM ship fitted to do damage. Not to mention it's awesome at long range missile fights. If I had caldari cruiser 5 I would fly a HAM cerb. This is also considering that I have amarr cruiser 5, minmatar cruiser 5, and BC 5. Last argument I saw was that the Cerberus' role is pointless (long range missile spam). In my opinion its role as long range missile spam in the form of either T2 heavy or HAM's is both fine. Bringing other ships into the argument doesn't help anyones side because you can say "Well why not use X instead of Y" in almost every argument like that. Cerberus looks like a preference ship...if you like missiles and like shooting them far, fast, and with a good amount of explosions, it's cool. 1. Explain how long-range missile spam is in any way preferable to a sniping turret ship of equivalent class that provides superior DPS that is instantaneous? 2. If #1 is true why not use a Caracal when it has two more turret hardpoints and a drone bay... and costs magnitudes less? 3. Explain how the Cerberus is preferable up close to a ship built for close-range combat (less massive, faster, more agile, more DPS, more flexibility in roles)? Edit - these are not rhetorical questions. I'm Caldari specialized since my first day in the game, have flown the Cerb for ages, and would love to find some answers to these questions. My crusade for faster missiles.
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.15 23:56:00 - [82] Originally by: Tovarishch 1. Explain how long-range missile spam is in any way preferable to a sniping turret ship of equivalent class that provides superior DPS that is instantaneous? 2. If #1 is true why not use a Caracal when it has two more turret hardpoints and a drone bay... and costs magnitudes less? 3. Explain how the Cerberus is preferable up close to a ship built for close-range combat (less massive, faster, more agile, more DPS, more flexibility in roles)? Edit - these are not rhetorical questions. I'm Caldari specialized since my first day in the game, have flown the Cerb for ages, and would love to find some answers to these questions. Keep in mind that I do not fly in 20+ man gangs regularly. Most of my combat comes from low-sec pirating in groups of 2 - 6 people. Rarely roaming. The cerberus is fun to fly and we don't always have a sniping battleship available. If we wanted to go for an "Uber gate setup" we would put 1 or 2 sacrilege's on the gate with super tanks to tank the sentries and scramble/web incomings, and then put 4 - 5 other people in sniping battleships, but we don't do that. When the changes come in I plan on using the sacrilege as a tackler on the gate with HAM's. I would be using the cerberus on the gate with HAM's right now if I had caldari cruiser 5 but I don't. If you're looking for absolute damage you will never want any missile ship in your question. There is no point in having ANY missile ship at all in the gang with your question, ever. The only way a missile ship could pop up as an answer would be if CCP boosted missile damage. So yes I agree long range missile spam, or ANY KIND OF MISSILE SPAM, would NEVER be "preferable" to a sniping battleship with more DPS if you're looking for DPS. I agree entirely. If number 1 is true, why not use the caracal? Can't tank the sentries long enough in a caracal. Not to mention it does get another damage bonus over the caracal. For number 3 the cerberus strikes me as a ship that fights at 15km - 23km with a gang. If you're going for DPS then there would be no point in taking the cerberus since there are plenty of other ships in EVE that do more damage with guns...like all the gallente blaster ships. IN fact we should just all use gallente blaster ships like the myrmidon and brutix or a megathron for everything we do because they do more DPS. I don't play the game for enormous amounts of DPS nor do I play in huge ops all the time where I have to worry about insta-popping a ship with the 20 - 60 other people in my "small gang." I fly ships that I get fun out of flying, like a HAM sacrilege....ham...sandwich...sounds kine of like it. It's not even in the game yet and I'm lookin forward to it. I see people around me who fly armageddon's and other stuff with crazy amounts of damage but I don't think they're fun to fly. Simple as that. Not to mention missiles don't use cap which is what will make a sacrilege much more fun to fly with a cap injector tank. Not sure what else to say about it because I already know and you already know when it comes to DPS in PVP it's not the ship to use. --- Put in space whales!
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.15 23:59:00 - [83] Double post but regardless - now that I think about it I think the cerb needs more speed boosts etc. I would love to see this as the "vagabond" for the Caldari. The next step up from the rocket crow. --- Put in space whales!
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.16 00:40:00 - [84] Edited by: d026 on 16/08/2007 00:42:22 Originally by: Tovarishch Edited by: Tovarishch on 15/08/2007 23:46:55 Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: Tovarishch Also, keep in mind, that calculated DPS is assuming no flight time on the missiles... which is, as we all know, not the case. There's no other way to calculate DPS because not all shots with guns hit in the game either and yada yada all other crap that is involved. The ship looks fine as a close up HAM ship fitted to do damage. Not to mention it's awesome at long range missile fights. If I had caldari cruiser 5 I would fly a HAM cerb. This is also considering that I have amarr cruiser 5, minmatar cruiser 5, and BC 5. Last argument I saw was that the Cerberus' role is pointless (long range missile spam). In my opinion its role as long range missile spam in the form of either T2 heavy or HAM's is both fine. Bringing other ships into the argument doesn't help anyones side because you can say "Well why not use X instead of Y" in almost every argument like that. Cerberus looks like a preference ship...if you like missiles and like shooting them far, fast, and with a good amount of explosions, it's cool. 1. Explain how long-range missile spam is in any way preferable to a sniping turret ship of equivalent class that provides superior DPS that is instantaneous? 2. If #1 is true why not use a Caracal when it has two more turret hardpoints and a drone bay... and costs magnitudes less? 3. Explain how the Cerberus is preferable up close to a ship built for close-range combat (less massive, faster, more agile, more DPS, more flexibility in roles)? --- Edit - these are not rhetorical questions. I'm Caldari specialized since my first day in the game, have flown the Cerb for ages, and would love to find some answers to these questions. Also, just because it's difficult (not impossible) to calculate the general effect of missile flight time on DPS does not mean it's irrelevant. Long-range missile sniping gets its DPS utterly castrated by flight time. Assuming you even manage to land one missile... which is rare. imho its quite simple.. after 25 seconds when my missile hit all other hips have already dealt damage. assume a rokh @ 200k, it would have done 8k damage before my first volley hits the target for 3,7k damage... it will take me another couple of seconds to catch up with my superior raven dps from 200k to reach the rokhs 25 sec damage advantage. but by then the target will be death probably... so if the fight lasts only a couple of seconds i lose an enormeous ammount of dps but it evens out after arround 1 minute. anyway fights just dont usualy last long enough to get to the point where my raven dps starts to count.. - sniping in a missile boat is pointles - fighting closerange in a missile boat is pointless due to lack of dps.. so is the cerbs only purpose killing frigs/ceptors? if so my catalyst does that to and much cheaper..
welsh wizard 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.08.16 00:43:00 - [85] Edited by: welsh wizard on 16/08/2007 00:43:46 It could do with equalised speed & mass to the new deimos. You can't have missile ships going too fast though because the launchers don't have to track. Imagine a Crow that actually does enough damage to kill something... Right now all the missile/ecm ships (bar the crow of course) are too slow and heavy, they need Gallente/Amarr speed equivalency. This way the other races actually have to bring more than 1 ship to kill a Caldari ship. Missile speed should be doubled and flight time halved also.
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.08.16 01:36:00 - [86] People who think cerb is pointless: people who rarely fight in small squads (MC, SMASH, RK) People who think cerb has a role: people who fight in small squads Reasons a Cerb is better than a Drake for PvP: + you don't look like a cheap git + your missiles go fast enough to hit nanoboats + you can provide anti-tackler support for a sniper group, and still deal damage at the same range they do + it has a nice skin + it aligns much faster When you fly in an organization that doesn't just outnumber 4:1 to defeat targets these things are important. To the MC guy that complained his missiles never hit primaries: perhaps you should have fired at support or 1-2 targets down the list instead. - ccp <3 ISK sellers boost dictors (a bit!) remotely destroy JCs
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 01:44:00 - [87] Originally by: Awox People who think cerb is pointless: people who rarely fight in small squads (MC, SMASH, RK) People who think cerb has a role: people who fight in small squads Reasons a Cerb is better than a Drake for PvP: + you don't look like a cheap git + your missiles go fast enough to hit nanoboats + you can provide anti-tackler support for a sniper group, and still deal damage at the same range they do + it has a nice skin + it aligns much faster When you fly in an organization that doesn't just outnumber 4:1 to defeat targets these things are important. To the MC guy that complained his missiles never hit primaries: perhaps you should have fired at support or 1-2 targets down the list instead. Please answer the three questions that I presented in post #81. Thanks. PS. Not looking cheap and the Cerb having a 'nice skin' aren't high on my list. My crusade for faster missiles.
Katashi Ishizuka	Posted - 2007.08.16 02:14:00 - [88] Why does Burn Eden use Ravens instead of railthrons? Because Caldari ships have the mids for EWAR, and when stuff is tackled 150km away it doesn't matter that there is lag in flight With that said, here's a Cerb fit. Highs 5x Heavy Assault Missile Launcher 1x Faction NOS, the better the range the further out you can orbit. Mids 1x 10mn MWD II 1x WD II 1x Small Electrochemical Cap Booster (200 charges) 2x RSD II Lows 2x Inertia Stab 1x Overdrive Injector 1x DB RCU Rigs 2x Polycarbon With the NOS on you can orbit at 2400 m/s forever at your NOS range. Does 260 dps and aligns in 5.7s.
Tovarishch Caldari Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.08.16 02:30:00 - [89] Originally by: Katashi I**uka Why does Burn Eden use Ravens instead of railthrons? What, precisely, do Ravens running sensor damps in their mids using precision torps have to do with balancing the Cerb as a long-range missile platform? I'll also direct you to my post #81 in this thread... as I'm curious as to how others will answer those questions. My crusade for faster missiles.
Kyguard Fire Mandrill	Posted - 2007.08.16 03:05:00 - [90] All HACs took a back seat when command ships and specifically tier 3 BC came out. All apart from the ishtar (nano'd) and the vagabond, HACs have a reduced difference in use from the tier 3 bc. I don't see why the cerb is kid SPECIAL - Latest Video

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