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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jakiri
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.22 10:08:00 -
[151]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Kaldaine
Neither of the titans killed pre-nerf would have been killed in the present game.
Why not considering everybody says its a lot easier to kill titans now?.
They both died by logging off with aggression. As it's now absolutely safe to log off inside a POS (at least until you log back on), the kills could not have happened the way they did.
If there had been other opportunities to kill them, ala the Shrike death, then maybe we would have still seen some deaths - but debating what would have happened when the game environment was very different gets us into trouble, especially given that, at the time, titans weren't used as floating gun platforms to the same extent as BoB used them prior to Rev II.
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Peoke
Caldari Unknown Shoe Corp. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.22 16:03:00 -
[152]
to find when blobbing started is easy. When ccp introduced dictors and removed cores it made every pvp fight kill or die. no more chance of living. now people dont want to die so they bring numbers to win. nanos even it up and the nerfed that and were here today. even the nano nerf didnt fix the only way to have a escap and every raiding ship has nanos instead of cores. at least with cores jammers stopped it. now you need a few huggins which are speced and faction fitted to deal with nanos.
Wasnt the titan or mothership. was the core nerf and ccp making it a loss every time you pvp.
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killerco
Gallente Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.08.22 16:12:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Bein Glorious
I am pretty sure there was crippling lag before goonfleet was created, though I was not playing back then.
Lag has been part off this game(espacially when too large groups wanna fight) since the early days off eve(at least as long as i remember i've heard peeps complaining about it). Somehow lag seems too go with eve from time too time
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insolace
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:36:00 -
[154]
Originally by: marakor The newest patches have even allowed the ultimate anti-blob ship the titan..
So lets review:
1) Titans require large alliances to build due to resources and sov requirements
2) Titans take 60 days to build and require a large defensive force during that time
3) Because of 1 and 2, the only way to abort a titan is to meet that large defensive force with an equal or larger offensive force
4) once a titan is built it can only be destroyed by a large capital fleet with an equally large support fleet. The only piloted titan ever destroyed was destroyed by a fleet of over 200 ships.
5) the doomsday can destroy all non-tanked battleships or lower class ships on grid, meaning any support fleet that is fighting one must stockpile ships and be prepared to swarm the titan after being destroyed.
How exactly does this discourage blobbing?
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:43:00 -
[155]
Edited by: marakor on 22/08/2007 17:44:56
Originally by: insolace
Originally by: marakor The newest patches have even allowed the ultimate anti-blob ship the titan..
So lets review:
1) Titans require large alliances to build due to resources and sov requirements
2) Titans take 60 days to build and require a large defensive force during that time
3) Because of 1 and 2, the only way to abort a titan is to meet that large defensive force with an equal or larger offensive force
4) once a titan is built it can only be destroyed by a large capital fleet with an equally large support fleet. The only piloted titan ever destroyed was destroyed by a fleet of over 200 ships.
5) the doomsday can destroy all non-tanked battleships or lower class ships on grid, meaning any support fleet that is fighting one must stockpile ships and be prepared to swarm the titan after being destroyed.
How exactly does this discourage blobbing?
You tell me it was your blob and alliance that was getting killed before the patch and now they are nerfed you seem to be doing rather better in the war.
Or are you going to call it a coincidence lol.
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Pirokobo
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:56:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/08/2007 18:02:32 Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/08/2007 17:55:56
Originally by: marakor You tell me it was your blob and alliance that was getting killed before the patch and now they are nerfed you seem to be doing rather better in the war.
Or are you going to call it a coincidence lol.
Goon operates on a sound tactical principle of strength through numbers. It's a simple, proven tactic that achieves results without extraordinary requirements other then the general need for lots of players and lots of ships.
Simply because you disapprove of that tactic does not make it unfair. Sure, there may be a story about 300 Spartans facing off against most of Persia.
But don't forget that for every "King Leonidas" in history there are a thousand "General Custer" characters; and just because they had the bigger guns didn't make it any harder for them to be encircled and taken apart by their numerically superior foes.
If Titans are broken it's because the balance errs on making it dangerous to risk a capship. You can't solo a fleet of hundreds with a lone Titan. Doesn't work that way. Surprise can let you take out that many but surprise is a force multiplier in real life. If RA appeared in the middle of BoB space, blasting everything in sight and then leaving, they'd be quite successful... because of surprise. Because it takes time to communicate news of an attack and formulate a response.
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Havoc GunStar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:58:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Angor
I remember a time where you could have 300vs300, with lag yes, but it was playable. Today you can hardly have 50vs50 without some major issues (at least in the north). One battle i remember more than most was the battle for Maelstrom Prime down in Immensea, that POS war was around 400-600 people in local during prime hours, but the fights were still playable.
I dont really know what CCP have done to totally screw up this game but i'd guess it has to do with new POS and Gang stuff adding extra processing load to the servers. I'd give up so much of the new additions of this game just to have decent sized playable fleet battles back, bring back RMR for instance.
As for Titans, they were introduced as a way to combat blobs, but titan pilots started blowing their load even just for 10 ships sat on a gate. Now that they have to be used more responsibly, suddenly nobody wants to use them. The titan deterant seems to have all but gone these days.
I wasn't part of that particular battle, and am not sure when it occurred, but I've been playing since early '04, and the largest battles I ever saw before joining Goonfleet were about 300 total in local, the first time FIX got crunched, etc. The lag was pretty much unplayable, just like it is today. It comes and goes a bit with certain patches, but the game has never really supported 300 versus 300.
Originally by: Peoke to find when blobbing started is easy. When ccp introduced dictors and removed cores it made every pvp fight kill or die. no more chance of living. now people dont want to die so they bring numbers to win. nanos even it up and the nerfed that and were here today. even the nano nerf didnt fix the only way to have a escap and every raiding ship has nanos instead of cores. at least with cores jammers stopped it. now you need a few huggins which are speced and faction fitted to deal with nanos.
Wasnt the titan or mothership. was the core nerf and ccp making it a loss every time you pvp.
This is completely inaccurate. 'Blobs' have always existed in this game since the first large corporations and small alliances. You can see the *****ing about it on eve-search and this site as well, from very early on.
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 17:59:00 -
[158]
Edited by: marakor on 22/08/2007 18:02:47 Edited by: marakor on 22/08/2007 18:01:29
Originally by: Pirokobo Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/08/2007 17:55:56
Originally by: marakor You tell me it was your blob and alliance that was getting killed before the patch and now they are nerfed you seem to be doing rather better in the war.
Or are you going to call it a coincidence lol.
Goon operates on a sound tactical principle of strength through numbers. It's a simple, proven tactic that achieves results without extraordinary requirements other then the general need for lots of players and lots of ships.
Simply because you disapprove of that tactic does not make it unfair. Sure, there may be a story about 300 Spartans facing off against most of Persia.
But don't forget that for every "King Leonidas" in history there are a thousand "General Custer" characters; and just because they had the bigger guns didn't make it any harder for them to be encircled and taken apart by their numerically superior foes.
Where do i say its not fair? lol.
LOL another spartan referance ffs omg look at Insolace's point 5 to see how the remote nerf has encouraged the blob.
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Pirokobo
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:06:00 -
[159]
Originally by: marakor LOL another spartan referance ffs omg look at Insolace's point 5 to see how the remote nerf has encouraged the blob.
My point being that the Titan isn't a ****ing Spartan. Never will be. It's more like Katsumoto in Last Samurai. Try to run into a ****ing wall of bullets and it WILL die.
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:13:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Pirokobo Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/08/2007 18:06:28
Originally by: marakor LOL another spartan referance ffs omg look at Insolace's point 5 to see how the remote nerf has encouraged the blob.
My point being that the Titan isn't a ****ing Spartan. Never will be. It's more like Katsumoto in Last Samurai. Try to run into a ****ing wall of bullets and it WILL die. Eventually.
Your referance is totaly wrong considering the titan is the most advanced ship in eve and you are trying to compare it to a guy who brings old fashoned armour and a sword to fight a modern army with gattling guns. If any thing your the low tec guys because of your lemming like tactics.
If your gonna compare a titan to anything it should be like having a atomic arsenal and theres no country out there with no nukes that can beat by sheer numbers a nuke capable power.
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Bein Glorious
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:27:00 -
[161]
Originally by: marakor
You tell me it was your blob and alliance that was getting killed before the patch and now they are nerfed you seem to be doing rather better in the war.
Or are you going to call it a coincidence lol.
edit fir a PS. Your point 5 covers what the remote DDD nerf has done to encourage blobing thanks for the confirmation.
Titans are/were immensely expensive, incredibly skill-intensive, and required huge amounts of capital ships to counter, which are also very expensive and require years of skill training. Meanwhile, Goonswarm is an alliance mostly made up of players with very little wealth who have been playing for less than a year.
So yes, the fact that supercapitals no longer invalidate battleships and below has given people who don't want to or simply cannot spam capships a bit more of a fighting chance.
If you think that titans should be buffed again and subcapitals should be used only in empire war, then good luck on your long road towards persuading people that it is necessary. |
WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:30:00 -
[162]
A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:35:00 -
[163]
Originally by: WT Snacks A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
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WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:38:00 -
[164]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
No, we'd still blob it because there is no other way to kill it. Find the titan, drop a bubble, warp in 500 dudes and hope he desyncs. All a remote DD does is ensure we lose a few dozen to a hundred more ships in the process.
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Pinnk Floyd
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:48:00 -
[165]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
So what happens if the Titan has a 200 man support fleet on its side?
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:49:00 -
[166]
Originally by: WT Snacks
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
No, we'd still blob it because there is no other way to kill it. Find the titan, drop a bubble, warp in 500 dudes and hope he desyncs. All a remote DD does is ensure we lose a few dozen to a hundred more ships in the process.
And how many times pre nerf did you do this cos id like to see the fraps pls?.
Id like to see you get to it while its back inside a pos lol. And hoping to break the game just to kill a ship because you do not have the know how or abilty of others who did is why they should be fixed.
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Pinnk Floyd
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:52:00 -
[167]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
No, we'd still blob it because there is no other way to kill it. Find the titan, drop a bubble, warp in 500 dudes and hope he desyncs. All a remote DD does is ensure we lose a few dozen to a hundred more ships in the process.
And how many times pre nerf did you do this cos id like to see the fraps pls?.
Id like to see you get to it while its back inside a pos lol. And hoping to break the game just to kill a ship because you do not have the know how or abilty of others who did is why they should be fixed.
You're dumb. A Titan isn't a blob breaker, a Titan is a fleet breaker. You can drop a doomsday on a 20 man fleet as well as a 200 man fleet. And that was done on every occassion. If an enemy was shooting a station with 50 battleships, you could have one guy in an Avatar stay up and camp the station with a Titan and there'd be absolutely nothing you can do to stop him.
In conclusion, you're dumb stop talking
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:54:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Pinnk Floyd
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks A titan encourages blobbing more than any other feature in the game. Yes, a remote DD can break up a blob, but it will not stop people from making a bigger one and swarming your titan.
TL;DR, stop trying to make up weapons that would kill a blob and start thinking of a reason why I would want to take 20 BS instead of 400 BS to a fight.
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
So what happens if the Titan has a 200 man support fleet on its side?
One way is to actualy train up and actualy build a few of these ships so you are a nuke capable power and have the abilty to fight at there level. Instead of breaking the game .
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Pirokobo
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:54:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Pirokobo on 22/08/2007 18:55:13
Originally by: marakor
If its a remote DDD then the titan cannot be blobbed therefore ppl would have to find ways other than the blob to kill them.
Originally by: marakor
One way is to actualy train up and actualy build a few of these ships so you are a nuke capable power and have the abilty to fight at there level. Instead of breaking the game .
Leave it to a FATAL-BoB lapdog to think like that.
You know, it's spending on superweapons instead of developing strength in numbers that will ultimately run BoB and their underlings into the ground.
At some level I think the people who cling to BoB do so out of some pathetic WoW notion that eventually BoB will help them build their own capship. As if. BoB will be retreating to Empire by the end of '08 if South has anything to say about it.
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WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:57:00 -
[170]
Originally by: marakor And how many times pre nerf did you do this cos id like to see the fraps pls?.
Id like to see you get to it while its back inside a pos lol. And hoping to break the game just to kill a ship because you do not have the know how or abilty of others who did is why they should be fixed.
Good sir imbecile, pre-nerf titans were untouchable. No matter what you did, you would not be able to kill a titan. I do wish remote DDs would return, I'd love to hot drop a double DD on a BoB fleet in my cov ops at least once. Not that it would stop blobbing, causing a thousand greasy nerds cry out in anguish upon pressing the I WIN button is a dream every goon has.
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 18:59:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Pinnk Floyd You're dumb. A Titan isn't a blob breaker, a Titan is a fleet breaker. You can drop a doomsday on a 20 man fleet as well as a 200 man fleet. And that was done on every occassion. If an enemy was shooting a station with 50 battleships, you could have one guy in an Avatar stay up and camp the station with a Titan and there'd be absolutely nothing you can do to stop him.
In conclusion, you're dumb stop talking
So?
They can do that now you moron the nerf did'nt change it he can warp to a ongrid point 4-500km away and DDD them.
PS. your a ****** and need to learn some manners.
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:01:00 -
[172]
Originally by: WT Snacks
Originally by: marakor And how many times pre nerf did you do this cos id like to see the fraps pls?.
Id like to see you get to it while its back inside a pos lol. And hoping to break the game just to kill a ship because you do not have the know how or abilty of others who did is why they should be fixed.
Good sir imbecile, pre-nerf titans were untouchable. No matter what you did, you would not be able to kill a titan. I do wish remote DDs would return, I'd love to hot drop a double DD on a BoB fleet in my cov ops at least once. Not that it would stop blobbing, causing a thousand greasy nerds cry out in anguish upon pressing the I WIN button is a dream every goon has.
dear mr sh*g whit i seem to remember a couple of titans being killed before the nerf i suggest you check your history before you make comments on there invulnerability.
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WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:01:00 -
[173]
Originally by: marakor So?
They can do that now you moron the nerf did'nt change it he can warp to a ongrid point 4-500km away and DDD them.
PS. your a ****** and need to learn some manners.
Stop posting forever.
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WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:03:00 -
[174]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks
Originally by: marakor And how many times pre nerf did you do this cos id like to see the fraps pls?.
Id like to see you get to it while its back inside a pos lol. And hoping to break the game just to kill a ship because you do not have the know how or abilty of others who did is why they should be fixed.
Good sir imbecile, pre-nerf titans were untouchable. No matter what you did, you would not be able to kill a titan. I do wish remote DDs would return, I'd love to hot drop a double DD on a BoB fleet in my cov ops at least once. Not that it would stop blobbing, causing a thousand greasy nerds cry out in anguish upon pressing the I WIN button is a dream every goon has.
dear mr sh*g whit i seem to remember a couple of titans being killed before the nerf i suggest you check your history before you make comments on there invulnerability.
They were killed through mechanics that have been fixed. A titan now has to simply log out in a POS and he cannot be killed like the first two.
Your idiocy only fuels the brakeless train.
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Pinnk Floyd
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:04:00 -
[175]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Pinnk Floyd You're dumb. A Titan isn't a blob breaker, a Titan is a fleet breaker. You can drop a doomsday on a 20 man fleet as well as a 200 man fleet. And that was done on every occassion. If an enemy was shooting a station with 50 battleships, you could have one guy in an Avatar stay up and camp the station with a Titan and there'd be absolutely nothing you can do to stop him.
In conclusion, you're dumb stop talking
So?
They can do that now you moron the nerf did'nt change it he can warp to a ongrid point 4-500km away and DDD them.
PS. your a ****** and need to learn some manners.
1. A DD doesn't have a 450km range. 2. That's exactly what killed Shrike. If a dictor survives, you can be bubbled before you warp out.
You are really dumb. Think about a game where each side has 20 Titans. There isn't any fleet combat. No small gangs, no big gangs. Everything under sup-capital is useless. That was what we were heading to before the nerf.
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WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:04:00 -
[176]
Also, stop posting.
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marakor
Gallente Anti Lag Forum Smackers
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:08:00 -
[177]
Originally by: WT Snacks Also, stop posting.
no problem ive even renamed it for you as you seem to blob threads as much as you blob eve.
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Pinnk Floyd
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:09:00 -
[178]
nice thread title dude, sorry this thread didn't go the direction you wanted
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WT Snacks
Anonymous Legionnaires
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:09:00 -
[179]
Originally by: marakor
Originally by: WT Snacks Also, stop posting.
no problem ive even renamed it for you as you seem to blob threads as much as you blob eve.
Would you like some ice for that sore behind of yours?
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Subira
Amarr Subira Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.22 19:25:00 -
[180]
This thread just turned bitter.
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