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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2004.02.10 01:48:00 -
[31]
Edited by: DigitalCommunist on 10/02/2004 01:49:15
bleh.. i'm not getting involved in this PR alliance neopolitical BS
_____________________________________
Perpetually driven, your end is our beginning.
"Can I be a consultant for EVE II?" - WhiteDwarf |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.10 01:49:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 10/02/2004 01:53:17
 Quote:
on a second glimpse a *Snip* some ppl try to apply to this situation.
Nice attempt to sow division btw. Bit blatant, but predictable at least.
Legal angle - thats been done also.
Next: (documentory proof you were lured into Delve by agent provocateurs? Or maybe its for "Regional stability".)
perlease.
- -
Quote:
bleh.. i'm not getting involved in this PR alliance neopolitical BS
Precisely their intent and how they historically deal with this sort of issue.
Its how they got their duplicitous reputation for colouring the turth in the first palce.
If they were upfront and honest they wouldn't have invaded CFS in the first place... kind of important to keep the series of events in perspective.
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Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.10 01:50:00 -
[33]
War is cool, ok.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.10 01:57:00 -
[34]
Quote:
If they were upfront and honest they wouldn't have invaded CFS in the first place... kind of important to keep the series of events in perspective.
Khanid seems pretty free of FA personnel?
Your spin might work Morkt if you added some finesse...
¼©¼
a history |
Darkrydar
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:00:00 -
[35]
Oh man, this is just rich. FA has shown their true colors. I bet this wasnt planned huh? I bet they with have some excuse. Perhaps, the ethnic Fountainians were being persecuted but the evil, had driving CFS. Or, perhaps they just needed breathing space. Whatever the case, congrates on the well deserved pr.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:03:00 -
[36]
Quote:
Quote:
If they were upfront and honest they wouldn't have invaded CFS in the first place... kind of important to keep the series of events in perspective.
Khanid seems pretty free of FA personnel?
Your spin might work Morkt if you added some finesse...
Your might work if had some relevance. 
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:11:00 -
[37]
Edited by: StoreSlem on 10/02/2004 02:21:31
Morkt Drak I will give you some hard and consise facts then, though they might not be my alliances official viewpoints.
I most certainly did not shoot at 'Tigriss' of GENCO by accident.
I shot at 'Tigriss' only after she had destroyed my scout corpmate.
I captured the station not by accident but by intent, after 'Tigriss' left the battlefield (without armour damage).
Quote:
Its not their space
They shouldnt have been there.
They said they would leave and they didnt.
They took all three stations now.
They are publically stting claim to them and control of access and security of the area.
1) We have not made any claims it is either. However it is closer to Fountain, if you measure ownership by proximity.
2) Obviously what FA or any member corps therein are self the ones to decide what they 'should' do or not. The addition of the new stargates mean new strategic / logistical problems for Fountain, as well as options and solutions. This has probably changed several corporations views on what they 'should' do, if not the entire alliance.
3) The fact that we lost several battleships today made many people resent the decision to evacuate Delve, however by far most of us did.
4) We took all three stations? We took only 3 stations out of all the 9 in the CFS protectorate. May I also remind you FA got no other stations than those 3.
5) No such thing. We have not even asked CFS or EF forces to leave the region or any system within.
edit: Copy and Paste smurfs 
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:14:00 -
[38]
Quote:
As to you latter point - I find it rther irrelevant. The order of event sis ismple and why was thee a FA invasion fleet inside Delve and why RIGHT NOW in this thread are Xanadu claiming THREE stations and the rights to open them as they see fit?
Try giving some explanations of factual things rather than sidetracking. - It mgiht help some.
Only one is and have ever been under Xanadu control.
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Amin
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:25:00 -
[39]
CFS have declared war on FA, apparently 
Drink StarsiÖ Relation Co-ordinator
Caldari State Citizen
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.10 02:26:00 -
[40]
Storeslem - this highlights the communication issues with the FA and the colourful and variable shape of "facts" you come out with.
You have a FA member here in this thread claiming all three stations - and yet at the time of your agreement to withdraw you had only captured 2.
So "during" your withdrawal you managed to capture another station that lay on a route in the opposite direction to your withdrawal?
But its ok - we know it was al an "accident" and the FA ships now operaitng back inside the Delve and from those stations are not actually there...indeed Xanadu is keeping their word to the letter.
...not...
Also bear in mind that it is YOUR own official representative who stated catagorically that "the station was captured by accident".
You state that is incorrect - i suggest you talk to your rep and not me and get your story straight - then come back.
Lets be clear about why FA lost ships today - because you entered the Delve in force and with intent to take stations in the full knowledge it was an act of oepn war and obvious hostility - to an alliance that not only presents no threat to you but have helped you out in the past.
Is this how Xanadu treat their friends then?
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Fallen SEAL
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:07:00 -
[41]
i think CCP knew this would happe and were all plying into their hands like little muppets.
Fallen SEAL
Worry Not For Whom The Bell Tolls...It Tolls For Thee
_________________________________________________________
...And There Will Come A Time Where The Sins Of Man Become Too Great To Be Ignored. |
Kurenin
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:16:00 -
[42]
Lalala Fallen SEAL whine whine lalala
*join channel* Kicked *join channel* Kicked.
Rinse, wash, repeat! (only fallen seal will know what i mean :))
-----
[22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas?
[22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:18:00 -
[43]
Morkt youre so eager for facts - So here goes :
CFS Free Space Bill as of Jan 16th 2004 (http://cfs-eve.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1788)
Quote:
Free Space Bill
This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilities and make reparations before they are destroyed.
The CFS exists to keep our space free safe and lawful for all, looking to the near future it will be possible to control space through deployables. It is nesisary to have a very clear idea about this, that we intend to keep space open for all. If someone wants to take over any portion of our space and not share its mining and traveling priviledges with all lawful players then they are an enemy of the CFS. This bill in no way addresses mulitiple station building in one system, and that issue can be addressed later. The main point is that no matter what everyone in our region remains free to travel, fight npcs and mine in peace anywhere CFS has influence.
This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting.
No FA corps has tried to prevent the free passage as described above in the Delve region in any way.
The CFS exists to keep our space free safe and lawful for all
The FA informed the CFS of our willingnes to even help with this task in the Delve region!
The FA has broken no 'CFS law' - twist and turn it as you like.
This is by the book - CFS's book mind you.
Granted conqurable stations are not addressed in the bill - only mulitiple station building in one system, and the CFS has not even decided what to rule about those, one way or the other.
The main point, which is how CFS themself puts it is
The main point is that no matter what everyone in our region remains free to travel, fight npcs and mine in peace anywhere CFS has influence.
The FA has in no way acted against this.
The FA hasnt asked anyone to leave Delve - CFS asked the FA to leave on the other hand...
BIG Lottery
[u |
Cymbeline
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:26:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Cymbeline on 10/02/2004 03:27:02
"Unfotunately Fargas is not on the EF council and does not represent eh EF.
He cannot overule anybody on the EF council as he is not a member of it.
Any deal you strike with him is entirely worthless - he ddid not and does not have the backing of the EF Council."
This is true, Fargas is no longer a member of the EF council for some time now and he does not represent us what so ever in ANY matter.
But Morkt, myself and a few others do, just to make things clear...
And who ever this "tiggr" is, it was a delibarate attempt of sabotage by someone towards The Empyrean Federation, and should be completely ignored. Any information coming from anybody exept EF council members should not be regarded has truhful.
By working together we can accomplish great things! |
Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:29:00 -
[45]
When did CFS space officially cease to be open to the general public?
Convert Stations
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:31:00 -
[46]
Erm - you already tried the "legal angle" in another post.
Try harder.
Or just admit there is no "justification", frankly Im amazes you are bothering to event ry. Why not just admit it? "Yeah we want Delve so stfu."
Simplest answer and the most truthful. People like FunGuy can then stop sending me evemails stating how honourable they are whilst lieing through their teeth.
You intended to take Delve from before you even crossed the border - why lie about something you have no need to hide?
Guilt trip maybe?
You see, the beauty of thei galaxy is there is only of it. And you now have to live by the reputation you set yourselves here and now.
Everybody "knows" this is a land grab by FA and the question is simple how much you are willing to lie and deceive others about it - from which we can all take your collective measure.
Are you to be trusted by anybody ever again?
Do Xanadu or BIG have reputations people can trust, should lawful people trade with them when its publically seen that they lie and conive?
Its your reputations you are throwing down the tube guys - feel free to keep on doing so. It does none of the Council any harm whatsoever and "FA" will become even more of a byword for "lies and cheats".
Eventually that will sink down to the corporations who back such actions within the FA as you are steadily exposed for your true intent.
Note - none of this is threat, its simply how the galaxy works.
BIG says "Play our lottery and win X" - History says "BIG lied openly and flagrently about their invasion into CFS and couldn't admit the real reaosns behind it (greed) - aka - dont play the BIG lottery.
Same for ship sales, same for future alliances and NAPS.
People simply stop trusting corporations and alliances that consistently lie and are aggressor on others... theres a LOT of customers in the CFS you just lost and will keep loosing.
Hope it was worth it...
and to think... if you'd asked you would have gotten open access, a military partner to help fight pirates and cheap-rate access to all the stations.
Oh my!
Time to 'fess up and act as you mean to be judged from now onwards:
Are you a lawul alliance or a bunch of pirates massquerading as sometime good-guys/
We will know the answer, not by your words, but by your deeds.
Enjoy your reputations, whatever they will become.
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Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:33:00 -
[47]
Quote:
When did CFS space officially cease to be open to the general public?
When did Regional Alliances be granted open access to CFS Space?
"General public" .. FA.... hmm.. yeah... right
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2004.02.10 03:59:00 -
[48]
So you're saying that if we were to take over a station in what's considered CFS space there would be no problem?
Convert Stations
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.02.10 04:01:00 -
[49]
Quote:
Why not just admit it? "Yeah we want Delve so stfu."
We want to be *in* Delve - not take it over.
We've even offered us self as military partners to the CFS in that area.
And you totally failed to adress my implied question.
We have played it by the book - and even offered assistence.
Which 'CFS law' has the FA broken?
BIG Lottery
[u |
Kurenin
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Posted - 2004.02.10 04:07:00 -
[50]
An offer you cannot refuse. (TornSoul's post)
-----
[22:02] <Kurenin> anyhow, on a more serious note, what did you think of those ideas?
[22:02] <Hammerhead> we can't do anything that requires programming
Inactivity wins you. |
Morkt Drakt
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Posted - 2004.02.10 05:02:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 10/02/2004 05:06:00
Quote:
Quote:
Why not just admit it? "Yeah we want Delve so stfu."
We want to be *in* Delve - not take it over.
We've even offered us self as military partners to the CFS in that area.
And you totally failed to adress my implied question.
We have played it by the book - and even offered assistence.
Which 'CFS law' has the FA broken?
Action, not words.
Leave Delve.
"Help" and "assistance" in the FA dictionary mean "lies" and "war" then I take it?
"Assitence" at the point of a gun? Oh yeah baby - thats a good one.
"We ahve played it by the book" - like you "Played it by the book" when you failed to withdraw forces from Delve?
Or when you invaded in the first place?
Or when you Xanadu masters were telling two different stories ("Yes it was an accident" "No it wasnt an accident")
"Played it by the book" = *sighs* yet more lies
Your not only invaded, you not only openly lied about why, you not only lied and broke, deliberately, another agreement to leave, but now you want to act as though you have a moral leg to stand on?
No offense Tornsoul, but you are utterly destroying your corp's reputation with this - and the FA and Xanadu's reputations are going with it (And it very sadly seems all those people who dissed you guys as liars and cheats and pirates were right).
NOTHING you can do , other than a complete withdrawal from CFS space, will make this any better for the FA or your corporations.
Every minute you perpetuate the lie is another customer lost another wound to the reputation you thought you were building.
Xanadu, BIG, FA = untrustworthy, liars, won't keep agreements, seek to deliberate break agreement, power-mad, lang-grabbers...
You see this? No?
Good - because it was about 3 months of hard work to establish BIG as an honest corp gone down the drain - tomorrow it goes further down the drain...and further and further , along with Xanadus, the more you all persist in this self-righteous and so obviously assinine claim to be "doing the right thing".
"You're fooling nobody."
Leave Delve.
You chose to take it by force. and you don't get to play the good-guy here.
Face the consequences of your greed and reap the whirlwind of mistrust you have created for yourselves, your corp members and your alliance.
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.10 05:10:00 -
[52]
Why should they leave ?
They owe you nothing.
They asked for your help few weeks ago, it never came.
They have the power to take over that portion of space and there is nothing it seems that CFS can do except tell them to leave.
Use your weapons and force them to leave, forum words have no meaning in EVE, only fire power in game.
You cant defend against small force from m0o, what in Gods name makes you think you can defend against another alliance?
Use fire power or you will be stepped on.
Spawn of the Devil
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Metal Dude
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Posted - 2004.02.10 05:32:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Metal Dude on 10/02/2004 05:48:15
People. I donÆt know about all this politics BS, but the only thing that Fountain members (Me and my friends last night) were attempting to do is to capture new stations in Fountain that popped up after downtime. Unfortunately NONE did. NO NEW STATIONS popped IN FOUNTAIN.
However, a new highway was formed that connected the two regions. So out of curiosity people went out to the stations that they could find, not thinking of whose space it was. By the way, where were all of CFS members when the stations were there for the taking? CFS should have been ready for that. They could have posted people around the area to lay their claims. This game is more like a wild west, so why are you surprised that someone came out and made a claim? But I guess there is some leadership questions there, and maybe this is a good time to address that.
I see Morkt saying that FA had this planed and call it an invasion. Please. People are trying to explore a new aspect of the game, thatÆs all. You should be too instead of thinking up conspiracy theories. And in a long run, M0o can come in and claim any station they want, so holding a station is like a having bulls eye on your chest.
It looks like GMÆs are having fun at our expanse, but thatÆs what makes this game fun. I have a lot of respect for people of CFS and I think that we can work this out in civilized manner. We are neighbors now and we can accomplish a lot more if we work together and work it out without farther hostilities. Save it for M0o and friends. They are licking their chops and killing you by the dozens. You donÆt want a war on 2 or 3 fronts that you canÆt win. Make a deal and prosper or die. ItÆs your choice CFS. People of FA do not want a war with you, but if you want one, I'm sure you will get one.
The truth will set you free
* Proud to be ATUK * |
Zagum Darkfin
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Posted - 2004.02.10 05:35:00 -
[54]
Quote:
Edited by: Morkt Drak on 10/02/2004 05:06:00
Blah blah Blah
Leave Delve.
blah blah blah
Does someone need a hug?? <<<<hugs>>> Now, is that better? Dude, you lost it. Step away from the keyboard. Breathe, deeper, deeper. Okay, think Happy thoughts, Happy thoughts.
If CFS believes in "free space", why did you guys fire on our stations and pod kill a FA pilot in Y-2ano?? Humm, thats bad, very bad.
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StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.10 05:48:00 -
[55]
Quote:
You have a FA member here in this thread claiming all three stations - and yet at the time of your agreement to withdraw you had only captured 2.
So "during" your withdrawal you managed to capture another station that lay on a route in the opposite direction to your withdrawal?
It is nice how almost all you say is, Xanadu have bad reputation and Xanadu lie, Xanadu WOULD if...
Yet you manage to post this, at best totally unconfirmed information on your part, at worst a blatent lie. The station was captured long before CFS declared war on us in an attempt to force diplomatic talks. [ 2004.02.09 13:45:34 ] (notify) The station 5-6QW7 VII - Moon 3 - Refining Outpost has been captured by Xanadu corporation!
Now, compare timestamps to Talon Silverhawks thread or the post from percy on CFS public forums.
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FZappa
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Posted - 2004.02.10 05:59:00 -
[56]
i look at the map , and i find myself
wondering what ticked cfs off . perior
to the last patch you could hardly find a
lone pilot in delve , it was and still is
far from CFS base of operations .
Now FA has fast access into Delve , while
CFS has to pass through querious to get there.
its not even a border system , CFS has to fly
through an additional region to get there.
imho , FA now has as much claim to delve
as CFS . ofc CFS "claimed" it before FA ,
but what exactly did they claim ? a deserted
part of eve with no stations ? with hardly
any pilots around but the occasional hunter .
well now
that there are stations around i think
we should expect a time of turmoil in eve.
i resent the fact that some factors are already
trying to present FA as a land grabbing monster
and a new incarnation in the image of the curse alliance ,
CFS should have it hands full with querious and
period basis and their stations there . i
estimate it will be hard enough to protect the
stations CFS already has there , to worry
about the ones FA corps took in Delve in a week
or two .
final note :
Great work CCP , thank you for not placing
ANY overtakable stations in fountain
disclaimer :
this post has nothing do to with FA stand on
the matter , not does it represent FA in any
way. me being just a pe0n , dont take any
conclusions about the FA stand or opinions
on the matter.
-------------------------
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Conrad
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Posted - 2004.02.10 06:18:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Morkt youre so eager for facts - So here goes :
CFS Free Space Bill as of Jan 16th 2004 (http://cfs-eve.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1788)
Quote:
Free Space Bill
This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting. Any entity that chooses to try to control and exclude others from any section of space in Khanid or the three regions to the south shall be given the opportunity to cease hostilities and make reparations before they are destroyed.
The CFS exists to keep our space free safe and lawful for all, looking to the near future it will be possible to control space through deployables. It is nesisary to have a very clear idea about this, that we intend to keep space open for all. If someone wants to take over any portion of our space and not share its mining and traveling priviledges with all lawful players then they are an enemy of the CFS. This bill in no way addresses mulitiple station building in one system, and that issue can be addressed later. The main point is that no matter what everyone in our region remains free to travel, fight npcs and mine in peace anywhere CFS has influence.
This bill proposes that no entity be allowed to close off any portion space under the CFS control to mining or travel or NPC hunting.
No FA corps has tried to prevent the free passage as described above in the Delve region in any way.
The CFS exists to keep our space free safe and lawful for all
The FA informed the CFS of our willingnes to even help with this task in the Delve region!
The FA has broken no 'CFS law' - twist and turn it as you like.
This is by the book - CFS's book mind you.
Granted conqurable stations are not addressed in the bill - only mulitiple station building in one system, and the CFS has not even decided what to rule about those, one way or the other.
The main point, which is how CFS themself puts it is
The main point is that no matter what everyone in our region remains free to travel, fight npcs and mine in peace anywhere CFS has influence.
The FA has in no way acted against this.
The FA hasnt asked anyone to leave Delve - CFS asked the FA to leave on the other hand...
Actually if you read about the Fix plan you have indeed not acted upon legal methods of these regions.
The fix plan was passed January 30, 2004, before player owned stations entered the game. If FA is really innocent you should read our policies and not skim through them. Until FA proceeds to respond correctly to these claims you are in no way acting within our legal system. I'll even link you:
[url=http://cfs-eve.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1940]The fix plan[/url]
Whether anyone belives we are controling the space or not is not my point at this time, my point is that FA is not as innocent as they hope to think they are. Please don't state we are angry for no reason when you failed to follow our guidelines. Other allainces do, what makes you different FA? Guns and battles not forum battles control space, don't get me wrong that is NOT my point because it is true. My point is that I'm trying to make everyone understand CFS alliance/friends hostility.
Don't attack what you don't fully understand.
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Primer Xenius
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Posted - 2004.02.10 06:18:00 -
[58]
Best put it in since I noted a mention...
XETIC/IF has no interest in CFS, FA or any other space outside our regions of Immensea and its protectorates, nor did we mount any operations in those regions yesterday, nor do we plan to 
"we all know CA planned to attack Xetic "when the time was right" from day1" - Lallante
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TornSoul
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Posted - 2004.02.10 06:37:00 -
[59]
Talks have broken down between the FA and the CFS.
11 hours of diplomatic talks was squashed in minutes.
Because of the stated intentions of the President of the CFS to hit the FA inside Fountain, the FA will no longer constrict it's forces to the Delve region.
Heres a sad wish for fair and good figths.
BIG Lottery
[u |
StoreSlem
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Posted - 2004.02.10 06:40:00 -
[60]
Edited by: StoreSlem on 10/02/2004 06:44:34
Quote:
Don't attack what you don't fully understand.
ooopseh...
Conrad: Unfortunately I have quite some problems understanding your bill, please rewrite any paragraphs we might have broken in plain english?
sidenote: oh, it is war. How many EF/CFS players will get podded because of Morkt Draks personal enmity towards fountain alliance ?
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