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So PVP is fun?

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Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:28:00 - [1] Alright, I've played other PVP games and it was fun to play mouse and cat, I still have a thrill when I go mine in low sec or 0.0 and it's fun also to escape when a pirate attacks you. I'm not good at fighting and don't intend to become that way anytime soon. However, what is the fun here? Quote: 2007.09.03 21:21 Victim: ---- Alliance: NONE Corp: Federal Navy Academy Destroyed: Capsule System: ---- Security: 0.0 and also : Quote: 2007.09.03 21:04 Victim: ---- Alliance: NONE Corp: Federal Navy Academy Destroyed: Capsule System: ---- Security: 0.0 and same here: Quote: 2007.09.01 18:36 2007.09.01 18:31 2007.09.01 18:26 2007.09.01 18:22 2007.09.01 18:17 2007.09.01 18:05 2007.09.01 17:56 What did they win? Nothing. What did I (my alt) lose? Nothing. Did that prevent my alt to go where I intended her to go? No. Just time and missiles wasted. This is what makes gate camping boooooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg. She takes Velator, jump to the gate, it's camped, she gets podkilled, returns into the velator, goes back to the gate and so on.... CCP needs to do something against this. Really. This is the bad side of PVP. Gates need to go AWAY.
tla gnillortmurof Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:32:00 - [2] Well, for one thing, it gets your scout alt out of the area. Not that any reason is really needed. NBSI (especially fun when you have no blues )
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:37:00 - [3] No. People podkill you because they can. There is no other reason. It's just stupid mindless PVP. A capsule doesn't go anywhere in a warp disruption field anyway.
Retribution01	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:45:00 - [4] First off it is not PvP!!! PvP assumes some ability to defend your self. GATE CAMPING is mugging just as if somebody hit you over the head as you walked out a door and then shot or knifed you so you die. So GATECAMPERS = Muggers = EVIL!!!
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:51:00 - [5] Kill her once I understand, she could have a BPO in her Velator after all, but repeteadly is what puzzles me. My point is when someone has decided to go somewhere it's impossible to prevent it unless you camp 24/7, and this is boring on both sides isn't it?
tla gnillortmurof Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:52:00 - [6] Originally by: Falbala No. People podkill you because they can. There is no other reason. It's just stupid mindless PVP. A capsule doesn't go anywhere in a warp disruption field anyway. It's a scout alt by your own admission, so how is that a harmless thing to have sitting around your gate camp for longer than is absolutely necessary? And in either case, yes it's because they can and no reason is necessary (NBSI). So what? You claim that you lost nothing from it. So, what's the problem?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:54:00 - [7] The sound.
Feirik	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:56:00 - [8] Say youre bored at a football field, someone shoots a ball near you. Of course you kick this ball off somewhere. Imagine your velator as the ball. Noobships are often annoying, as they sometimes tend to stalk you, like warp to some ongird but faraway spot of the gate youre camping.... and dont forget the 1 tritanium, just ask ginger how much it can add up if you catch em all...
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.05 13:59:00 - [9] Podkilling is innately satisfying to the pvper. Sort of a coup de grace. It costs the victim their implants. Their replacements can cost billions. It always costs the victim ISK when they need to buy a new clone. Firing weapons costs ammo (ISK). Pvp keeps the EVE economy stable. Even podkilling. Did I sufficiently answer your question or were you just whining? Gates need to go away? Why? So we can all float around in space without ever encountering anybody else? Do you realize how big space is? Without choke points, you'd never see anyone else. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Sonao	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:00:00 - [10] Edited by: Sonao on 05/09/2007 13:59:57 I know alot of people doing it for the killmail, not excluding myself. We have had alot of nice loot for newbships before, we killed a reaper in lowsec which held a full set of +5 implants. It`s not like we will sit on a gate and say "oh theres a velator, lets cargoscan him to check if its worth shooting", lowsec is a one way entry, anything dies. "Sorry for your loss"
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:03:00 - [11] Originally by: Falbala No. People podkill you because they can. There is no other reason. It's just stupid mindless PVP. A capsule doesn't go anywhere in a warp disruption field anyway. Let's look at pod killing a little closer shall we? First of all even in the case of an obvious alt with no implants on (scout alt that is), the pod killing puts him in his cloning station. Which most probably is far away from the system that the incident happened, thus the killer manages to blind you for a certain amount of time. Giving him the option to change a lot, and give you a surprise. Secondly this is EVE, where loss has impact. Pod Killing (while i am not that fond of it) has an economical impact on the victim via implants and clone cost. Also it has a fair chance that the victim will get frustrated and forget to upgrade the clone, resulting in a higher damage infliction on the next pod killing of him/her. All in all it's usually not because they can, but there are strategic reasons behind this act. Like it or not there are. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:03:00 - [12] The problem is it's boring. Popping a roid is slightly funnier because you don't know when it will pop.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Falbala Alright, I've played other PVP games Arguably you're not playing a serious pvp game if the death penalty doesn't force you to consider your actions carefully. I don't know of many games that really emphasize this in the same way Eve does. Maybe Lineage 2, but I haven't played it. Most "pvp" in other games is conflated PVE where the actual pvp content is quite slap-dash, wow's battlegrounds for example. Quote: However, what is the fun here? Fun is subjective, you're miserable and I'm thrilled. Subjective. Alternatively, that pod is transformed into a killmail that then is logged onto a board that I then bring up to defend my e-honor. Quote: What did they win? Nothing. What did I (my alt) lose? Nothing. Did that prevent my alt to go where I intended her to go? No. Just time and missiles wasted. Time is quite valuable actually. The key to success in Eve is not the size of the blob but the speed and intuition of the scout forecasting movements, it doesn't matter that you don't see yourself as a scout but your ability to use throwaway characters to track players is invaluable. It makes sense they ganked you, there is absolutely no way to know who is behind the alts and its better to dictor and pod them all then allow them to scout you. This ofcourse leads us into a discussion of alts, the utility of local and lack of combat sites at places other than gates. Quote: CCP needs to do something against this. Really. This is the bad side of PVP. Gates need to go AWAY. If you're worried about gate camps, use a covert scout, your pod scout, use the map for another entrance or simply get standings with the campers. Use your head rather than rant, in Eve laziness and sloppiness are punished mercilessly. Cynoing and jump bridges have their own complications if you haven't noticed, but in principle I agree, I'd love to see real incentive to move fights elsewhere. In practice you'll find the problem is not gatecamps, which are often loosely organized and breakable with less than half a dozen people, but with the benefits of focus fire and a lack of diminished returns. ___ Junkie Beverage: i use your tears to cyno in my laughter
tla gnillortmurof Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Falbala The problem is it's boring. Popping a roid is slightly funnier because you don't know when it will pop. It's not boring. It's not exciting (unless there is no bubble in which case it is). It's a one second thing and you're gone. It doesn't exactly inconvenience us.
Dez Affinity Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Falbala I'm not good at fighting and don't intend to become that way anytime soon. What did they win? Nothing. What did I (my alt) lose? Nothing. Did that prevent my alt to go where I intended her to go? No. Just time and missiles wasted. This is what makes gate camping boooooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnggggggggg. Just think that over real quick. You're not good at fighting, you don't want to be (you mean you don't enjoy it or it doesn't take priority in EVE) and you find gate camping boooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnggggg. Well no **zle, you're the one getting your alt popped over and over and not reaching your destination. What do you expect? You losing something means nothing. You're always losing something anyway and that is time. Originally by:** Retribution01 First off it is not PvP!!! PvP assumes some ability to defend your self. GATE CAMPING is mugging just as if somebody hit you over the head as you walked out a door and then shot or knifed you so you die. So GATECAMPERS = Muggers = EVIL!!! Player versus Player. I'll let you think that other for a little while. Right, player versus player occurs everywhere and at all times, just because it isn't even sided PvP or because it isn't 'fair' doesn't mean it isn't pvp, it just means it's 'easy pvp'. PvP does not assume the ability to defend yourself. PvP assumes that 2 Players are taking part against each other. _______________
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:17:00 - [16] Originally by: Erotic Irony [Arguably you're not playing a serious pvp game if the death penalty doesn't force you to consider your actions carefully. I don't know of many games that really emphasize this in the same way Eve does. Maybe Lineage 2, but I haven't played it. Most "pvp" in other games is conflated PVE where the actual pvp content is quite slap-dash, wow's battlegrounds for example. Acutally, I've played EQ1 and EQ2 PVP servers, UO Siege Perilous, PVP servers on NWN1, Shadowbane and Lineage 2, I've never played WOW. Only EQ1 PVP server could be more boring that EVE gate camps because of corpse camp. i've happened to be corpse camped 6 hours and it was surely very boring. In the end I got the corpse campers killed by luring them to the guards. But they wouldn't stop on their own, just like gate campers wouldn't stop killing an alt repeteadly just because they can. I admit that regular PVP in EVE is fun and interesting, I just say that this particular form which is mindless podkilling must stop. And if the strategy would be to scare them to keep them away, after the 10th time the victim comes back you could take into consideration that it doesn't work... And to those who try to explain this is a strategy please stop because you have no idea of what strategy is, if you want victims (and them to be profitable) the first thing to do is to make them feel saecure, not kill them already when they pop the head out.
Erotic Irony 0bsession	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:23:00 - [17] Originally by: Falbala And to those who try to explain this is a strategy please stop because you have no idea of what strategy is QFT ___ Junkie Beverage: i use your tears to cyno in my laughter
consider telos Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:30:00 - [18] Calling it boring is your point of view. It may not be an exhilirating aspect of pvp in eve, but it fills the time between a big target coming through a gate. Think, if it was so boring why would they do it? This thread is a whine about you being killed lots of times, thinly veiled as critique of eve's "boring" pvp gameplay. I see through your cheap veil!
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:39:00 - [19] Take it as a whine if you like, however doing this makes you predictable, and as such makes you vulnerable in PVP. Someone said we need choke points. This is wrong. EVE ancestor, Frontier Elite had jump clouds that you could analyze and you would jump after a big ship and still get to the destination before it. Removing gates would not end the gank it would end mindless killing.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra Gallente Ixion Defence Systems The Cyrene Initiative	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:44:00 - [20] So in fact you are not whining about pod killing (although you try to make it sound like that), but about gatecamps. Well there is a way to break gatecamps and that includes other players too, or a very fast aligning ship, or many warp stabs. I agree it's a lame tactic but sometimes it leads to nasty surprises for the campers. ------- Nobody can be exactly like me. Even I have trouble doing it.
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:47:00 - [21] Originally by: Falbala No. People podkill you because they can. There is no other reason. It's just stupid mindless PVP. A capsule doesn't go anywhere in a warp disruption field anyway. Or maybe its because Capsule Scouts are F'ng annoying Originally by: Retribution01 First off it is not PvP!!! PvP assumes some ability to defend your self. GATE CAMPING is mugging just as if somebody hit you over the head as you walked out a door and then shot or knifed you so you die. So GATECAMPERS = Muggers = EVIL!!! Its PvP as long as there are people involved idiot Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor penalties,Navigation Shortcuts
Reem Fairchild	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:49:00 - [22] Originally by: Mithrantir Ob'lontra Well there is a way to break gatecamps and that includes other players too, or a very fast aligning ship, or many warp stabs. Cloaking Ares. Nearly impossible to catch in all but a tiny few situations.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:51:00 - [23] Again take it as a whine if you want, it seems you are happy with it, so it's good to know that it makes at least one player happy. There are other ways to achieve the same results and are less boring, but you don't want to hear about it it's alright. As I said you should try popping roids it's about the same fun level.
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:59:00 - [24] Originally by: Falbala Again take it as a whine if you want, it seems you are happy with it, so it's good to know that it makes at least one player happy. There are other ways to achieve the same results and are less boring, but you don't want to hear about it it's alright. As I said you should try popping roids it's about the same fun level. Roids don't carry faction loot Or scout for other valuables Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor penalties,Navigation Shortcuts
Exlegion KnightRaven Research KnightRaven Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:03:00 - [25] Always keep your alt scout near the system your main is in. And always update your alt's clone station. That way if your alt gets pod-killed your clone will be nearby. Also, use a shuttle instead of a newbie frig for your alt. The shuttle is much quicker to warp. Updating your clone station and purchasing a shuttle will not cost your more than 20,000 isk everytime your alt gets popped. It isn't very honorable to use zero/low-risk alts. But gatecamping isn't exactly an honorable profession either. One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Guru
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:04:00 - [26] I said one time I understand, but after the 10th time I doubt you would find faction loot in cargo, and pods don't carry cargos anyway.
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Falbala I said one time I understand, but after the 10th time I doubt you would find faction loot in cargo, and pods don't carry cargos anyway. pods don't smack in local either Local Thread 107-b,War without a victor penalties,Navigation Shortcuts
consider telos Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:09:00 - [28] Originally by: Falbala Take it as a whine if you like, however doing this makes you predictable, and as such makes you vulnerable in PVP. Someone said we need choke points. This is wrong. EVE ancestor, Frontier Elite had jump clouds that you could analyze and you would jump after a big ship and still get to the destination before it. Removing gates would not end the gank it would end mindless killing. I'm not sure how this makes me predictable, and therefore vulnerable in pvp. There's a technical reason why there's jumpgates. Think how the server(s) would perform with all 34 thousand people on the same node! Jumpgates are a clever way of seperating nodes i.e. cutting the game into bite size portions for you, the end user, and ccps server cluster to process. Everyone knows how jita is and it's a super reinforced node. So, you can't just get rid of gates and make it a seamless universe like elite.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:14:00 - [29] How it makes you predictable? Very well. I go on TS with my team, send the fake alt scout, you lock the Velator you blast it, and when you are locking the pod I say to my team "JUMP" they go in lock you and kill you. Anything which is repeated gets you killed. Also you lose one target on your ship wich is a weakness. If you are not sure how this makes you vulnerable maybe you should not do pvp at all. I'm not very good at it but it seems you could use some advices.
consider telos Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:34:00 - [30] Edited by: consider telos on 05/09/2007 15:37:08 Originally by: Falbala How it makes you predictable? Very well. I go on TS with my team, send the fake alt scout, you lock the Velator you blast it, and when you are locking the pod I say to my team "JUMP" they go in lock you and kill you. Anything which is repeated gets you killed. Also you lose one target on your ship wich is a weakness. If you are not sure how this makes you vulnerable maybe you should not do pvp at all. I'm not very good at it but it seems you could use some advices. So, you'll catch me out while i'm locking down the pod and taking down it's armor. It'd be insta popped. If I was ignorant as yourself about pvp, you could get caught out. It's understandable that you came to that conclusion because of your lack of pvp experience. If I was in a gate camp I'd be sitting 180km off the gate in a sniping t2 bs or hac. The gate would be bubbled up and intys zooming about inside tackling. There would be a scout on the other side of the gate watching what is coming through. So, if you had overwhelming numbers in comparison to my gatecamp and was a no win situation our scout would tell us, and we'd warp off.

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