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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1121
   |
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
Slower CONCORD does not allow for equal fights or contesting incursions since you start a fight, get scenes then inevitably down. pointless
And I'm the OP
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:25:00 -
[122] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Ai Shun wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Question, sorry if already answered. Would this be for the entire constellation or just the sites? I believe the proposal is to have slower CONCORD response to the actual Incursion site. The system itself remains normal. No CONCORD, sites not systems.
Hmmm... Personally not liking the idea. Reasons:
Allows greater safety in transit for pvp focused groups than other security ranges making things much easier for hunters and no benefit for prey.
Locations of sites are broadcast making finding prey effortless; this could potentially be fun for pvp'er looking to create traps, but this holds no direct benefit or specific counter for pve focused persons
Suggested counters involving numbers of support pilots lower rewards per person severely.
Fleet compositions and fitting would be adjusted to mitigate risk and would decrease earning potential (I've never run a fleet with T1 logi, can they keep fleets alive in higher level sites?).
People running incursions in low/null would be better off there as risk is LESS and payout is higher and so wouldn't come to do them in high, and I imagine the reduced rewards along with ease of interference would cause most highsec dwellers to just do something else more profitable and less dangerous, which would probably be easy if this change were made. If you are trying to stop Incursions from being run in highsec at all then sure, this should do it, but at that point why not take the easier route and suggest that they be removed from highsec altogether? |
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:26:00 -
[123] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running.
It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies. |
Zag'mar Jurkar
QC Steel Industries
8
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
Caellach Marellus wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running. It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies.
That works the other way around as well.
What would be your propositions to "fix" incursions ? |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:49:00 -
[125] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running. It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies. That works the other way around as well. What would be your propositions to "fix" incursions ?
Reduce payouts (possibly tune more towards LP?)
Rebalance vanguards
Retune influence so incursions don't dissapear in less than 5 hours outside of farming agreements
Add elements of randomness to reduce predictability and as a result the amount of min/max fitting going on
Edit:
Make it so scramblers don't just warp off when objectives are killed (to stop blitzing) |
Haulerboi
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:58:00 -
[126] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.
Translation: Mommy!, mommy! I'm so terrible at PVP I can't kill anything without CCP making the game easy for me. 
Quit whining. HTFU or GTFO
|
Caellach Marellus
Nephtys Ventures inc
396
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 02:59:00 -
[127] - Quote
Zag'mar Jurkar wrote:Caellach Marellus wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running. It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies. That works the other way around as well.
Sure if I was advocating for ridiculous ways to break other people's gameplay and activities.
Quote:What would be your propositions to "fix" incursions ?
Vanguards need to be adjusted so they can't be blitzed.
For example in an OTA you need to simply shoot the Deltoles for completion (and subsequent site despawn) This requires a shiny fleet to achieve as the rat DPS after the second Deltole goes does down starts to actually hurt.
NCO's need a complete rework, as it stands Legion or Slepnier fleets can fast lock and instapop the frigate swarms in "blink and miss it" speeds.
NMC's need a timer that won't spawn the objective can before a set period.
This will nerf the organised fleets rolling sites every 4 minutes for 10 mil payouts, without affecting the pug casuals. Lazy shiny fleets will find their isk drop and the maximum potential income for Vanguards has a more reasonable cap for the absolute bleeding edge groups. If you nerf the isk payout there's zero reason for casuals to run Incursion fleets with potentially dumb pilots when they can make as much isk running L4's and be safe in the knowledge their ship isn't going to asplode because some idiot couldn't pay attention.
Secondly HQ and Assault sites need their pay restructuring so that they are appealing in isk/hour to the more organised fleets rather than rolling the more casually tuned Vanguards. Restructure the difficulty of the sites so that waves are a possible combination of several different ship types so that you can't rinse/repeat on every scenario, don't increase the volley damage however. I'm very much with the CSM on this one, instagibbing is not a mechanic that puts in difficulty, it's a pointless cockblock and lazy. Remove specific triggers and require full wave clears before progressing on (exclusion to mothership sites, where the waves spawn due to a different style of event, do keep the variation of shiptypes though)
Essentially make HQ/Assault sites more challenging, but make them financially more appealing than Vanguards. PvE in EVE at it's highest level should not be a memorised playbook that you found on a website. There should be a need for the FC to actually FC, there should be more potential for things to go wrong, player error should be more forced. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1121
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 03:02:00 -
[128] - Quote
Haulerboi wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.
Translation: Mommy!, mommy! I'm so terrible at PVP I can't kill anything without CCP making the game easy for me. Quit whining. HTFU or GTFO
Confirming you really have me figured out.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
360
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 04:00:00 -
[129] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.
Why? So you can club baby seals?
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Chief Cheeba
The Janjaweed
6
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 04:57:00 -
[130] - Quote
this is the type of idea only an idiotic cowardly sociopath could support
pirate tears are so sweet
%^$gankers!!1!*%#
etc |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1127
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 05:01:00 -
[131] - Quote
Chief Cheeba wrote:this is the type of idea only an idiotic cowardly sociopath could support
pirate tears are so sweet
%^$gankers!!1!*%#
etc
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Kazacy
BACKFIRE Squad
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 06:37:00 -
[132] - Quote
Chief Cheeba wrote:this is the type of idea only an idiotic cowardly sociopath could support
pirate tears are so sweet
%^$gankers!!1!*%#
etc
tbh i really love the op's idea; this makes me a cowardly sociopath? or you are just mad?
for the op:
awesome idea +1
|
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
335
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 07:23:00 -
[133] - Quote
then people wont do them unless you raise the reward for them even more. wont work, derp. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1128
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 07:42:00 -
[134] - Quote
Competent people will run them, incompetents can stick to lower income activities.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
knobber Jobbler
United Highsec Front
The 99 Percent
26
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 10:57:00 -
[135] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Vigrioth Stoneclaw wrote:Lady Spank wrote:Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.
Not only does this make sense in an immersive way but it also places high sec incursion income in line with that of low sec (and null to a lesser extent) but it also provides opt-in PvP for high sec dwellers in lieu of the Dec shield mechanics that nullify a lot of high sec PVP opportunity.
For those that don't like the inherent risk of PvP there are still decent income sources available in safer empire.
Edit: This provides a suitable risk versus reward considering L4 missions earn a conservative 20m per hour but incursions give a conservative 60-70m per hour. Thinly veiled attempt to bypass CONCORD. -1. Incursions need to be fixed, I agree, but this isn't a good way to do it. Oh and um...WoW...thataway >. You're basically just trying to create Wintergrasp in Eve. For shame Spank, I've always held you in such high regard too. I appreciate what you are saying but this is hardly a 'thinly veiled' effort, I thought it was rather transparent. It doesnt make the entirety of high sec a 'gank zone' but rather turns the currently contested high-income zero risk incursions into something more akin to low sec combat, but with equal inherent rewards. I dont think you need to be so paranoid as what I propose only affects those seeking high reward PVE... but with a risk of PVP, and as for making incursions impossible, you only have to look at the success some people have with low sec incursions to understand that this isnt simply making incursions gank-zones but rather areas of opportunity in high sec. EDIT: I might look into what Wintergrasp is but I doubt it's relevant to Eve,
Maybe instead ccp need to review why they included incursions. I thought it was to give better pve content and give people the opportunity to take part in events with other people.
If people farm them then just change the rules and payout. It's better than breaking the whole concept by making all incursion areas Concorde free. It would completely defeat the whole idea of what the high.sec incursion experience is meant to be. |
Aramatheia
Traveler 52
D-Collective
14
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 16:40:00 -
[136] - Quote
nice to see some people cant read, even ccp knows that incursions especially vanguards are pretty much broke. Sure you can get 60m an hour doing hq's but thats 2 sites theyre long and people constantly drop out and new members need to be found. VG's have the best isk per hour and even ccp knows that the isk per hour a shiney fleet brings in is too much. They want to change it i guess they'll either nerf the payout or try to make them harder.
Also i would love to know where the numbers come from saying that its soley incursion runners that are inflating prices on everything. I guess it cant be the mining bot fleets. Of course not how silly of me, it has to be the 1000ish incursioners that are breaking the economy........
Lady Spank wrote:Competent people will run them, incompetents can stick to lower income activities.
Since when did you become CEO of CCP? never? thats what i thought. You dont have the right to dictate game policies on anyone sorry. Leave that to the people who's name starts with CCP lol
PS i am all for making incursions harder. I fly a logi ship lately and most the time it is pretty mind numbing. Hopefully CCP and CSM can find a way to make them more engaging for all ships on the field for the entire duration. Im looking at you stupid hq sites where logis go afk while fleet beats away on a stupid tower. Any ganker can still wapr into a site and cause trouble and they dont need a billion isk ship to do it anyone knows that - even me and i have ganked nothing, ever. Making incursion sites raw pvp ie low sec isnt going to make them more challenging merely dead content |
Nephilius
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
292
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 17:34:00 -
[137] - Quote
Ow....
I facepalmed so hard i think my nose might be broken...
If you bring down a giant, you're a hero. If you kill something weak-even if it has to die-then you will endure contempt. |
Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
75
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 17:44:00 -
[138] - Quote
Forcing players to do something they don't want is a bad business practice... they learned that with WiS.
The fact of the matter is that in 0.0's opinion if your having fun in high sec than either your a ******** monkey that enjoys mining or other activity that mind numbingly boring and makes very little income or CCP needs to fix the "broken" game.
The null bloc is the only unified voting bloc in this game and thus will be the only people CCP will really ever at least act like they are listening to.
I've sold off all my shiny incursion ships cause i dont want to mess with the whole war of crap thats going on around it and i'm back to doing lvl 4s ... when i get bored of missions I'll probably just quit for awhile.
I'm hoping they come to some agreement on how to make incursions ok to have in highsec and stay up longer than an hour so I can go back to enjoying playing an MMO instead of a single-player game with an erratic market. |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
361
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 18:50:00 -
[139] - Quote
Lady Spank wrote:Competent people will run them, incompetents can stick to lower income activities.
Competent people will avoid running them since the time required to do so in PVE fitted ships will undoubtedly attract those only interested in griefing fleets that can't adequately sustain a fight. The fact that these fleets have logistics is of little consequence since a well coordinated cov-ops fleet strike will take them down quickly which will, of course, be followed by the rest of the incursion fleet being wiped out in quick order. Even still, the spontaneous nature of many of these fleets and their unfamiliar compositions will result in the fleet disbanding at the first sign of trouble. Because Incursions are advertised and their sites readily available to anyone at any time, there is no warning to be had that trouble is brewing, hence no time to order a strategic retreat before the shithits the fan.
I wouldn't mind so much the suggestion of Incursions being pvp sites as long as you put a bit more thought into it than "make it happen so I can kill people who haven't the slightest clue". Seriously, there are places to do that. They're called noob systems. But, then you'd have to contend with the wrath of CCP for griefing noob. Yet the principle is the same in the concept that you've put forward here.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1141
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 20:20:00 -
[140] - Quote
Again, if people can run incursions in low sec, there's nothing stopping people doing the same in high-sec. No one is suggesting fish in a barrel, that would be ridiculous. Please try and remain at least partially subjective in your counter arguments. Not posting on troll alts might also help your stance hold merit.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Aqriue
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
450
|
Posted - 2012.01.21 20:48:00 -
[141] - Quote
Let me point you in the direction of the suggestion features and ideas
<---
or is it
---->
Maybe it was
/.\
.I
.I
No, I am positive its
.I
.I
\./
****, its any direction but here
Oh, and here is an amazing fact.
EVE isn't a FPS. You don't have to shoot everyone to
*Mortal Kombat Voice*
PLAYER vs PLAYER, Start!!!!
*UP, UP, DOWN, DOWN, LEFT, RIGHT, LEFT, RIGHT, B, A*
*Mortal Kombat Voice*
KA-KA-KA-COMBO BREAKER!!!! FINISH HIM!!!!
You can....compete?!?!? for the incursion sites by running them faster??!?! *GASP!* OMFG What the hell? Who f*cking said that? *squints eyes* I see what you made me say there. You just might have to suck it up/off like you expect carebears to suck it up/off when they undock that they are fair game and shoot red crossess. You don't need to shoot every ******* thing on site to interact with people (cause next thing you know, we should have stabby animations and cartoon explosions when marketing or talking in local!!!), Medal of Duty: HaloStrike514 is comming soon and its nothing like EVE the MMO (514 is a shooter like 007 for the Super NES/CoD/MoH/you name it, think CCP is a bit late to the party  )
FFS, think you can PVE while PVP for ship combat? Doesn't work, why do you think everyone stays in highsec for level 4...cause its to much of a hassle maybe?
And going to throw in....buff vanguard sites to be 1 billion per hour. I like your whine with my cheddar, it tastes more salty + bitter the more you complain  . |
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
363
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 04:24:00 -
[142] - Quote
[quote=Lady Spank]...if people can run incursions in low sec, there's nothing stopping people doing the same in high-sec.../quote]
Except the people who run losec incursions aren't the people who run hisec incursion. Look, if you want to club baby seals just say it already and stop trying to present this idea as anything but.
We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
696
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 04:33:00 -
[143] - Quote
+1
Rated ARG for Pirates. **** you. |
Jayem See
Drama Llamas
Phobia.
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 05:32:00 -
[144] - Quote
-1 for the idea
+1 for implementing WH style bonuses and penalties, at random, in each site.
Each site provides a different challenge such as tracking penalties, shield penalties, armour penalties, logistics penalties.
Make it so that fleets have to be more balanced - you might be getting close to something.
Instanced PvP in incursions? No thanks. More complicated and player led solutions yes. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
1157
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 05:39:00 -
[145] - Quote
Interesting ideas, thank you for your contribution. Randomised effects could go some way to combating cookie cutter fleets and reward the organised.
(a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Jayem See
Drama Llamas
Phobia.
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 05:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
It would seem a logical progression to me. The coding is in place already - it functions in WH.
Also - by forcing a more varied fleet we may get away from the awful "11" player per site limit.
11 players may not be enough - that way fleets will have to be larger and although the isk introduced may be the same, it is spread across more players. The overall influx of cash would be reduced - hopefully getting rid of some of the (possibly/probably justified) whining threads that keep popping up.
I am also for the ratio of "effects" being made more in favour of the Sansha. They drop too fast atm. |
Rocky Deadshot
In The Goo
EVE Trade Alliance
76
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 05:50:00 -
[147] - Quote
Look some players want a Raid like PVE experience in eve that doesn't require some sort of high risk pvp possibilities (there are some risks of ganking every time you undock i know, but that aside). If that means CCP has to nerf the income from them, so be it, make them more on par with lvl4s, idc... i just want something to do in a group setting where I dont have to deal with cry babies and sociopaths on an hourly basis. |
Jayem See
Drama Llamas
Phobia.
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 05:55:00 -
[148] - Quote
Uh - I didn't suggest anything to deny you that.
I like incursions. I just want them to be more challenging in order to balance them slightly.
Nothing I suggested involved PvP. |
Selinate
597
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 06:45:00 -
[149] - Quote
I wouldn't mind it.
I'm sure the masses of people unsubbing over the fact that major highsec "shipping lanes" or "pipes" or whatever you want to call them, between the hubs and other areas would rage, as this could potentially have the effect of locking those who hate going into low/nullsec into an area and keeping them out of the area they want to go to. |
Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric
The Polaris Syndicate
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 06:56:00 -
[150] - Quote
Why dont you do it yourself?
You dont need ask CCP to do it for you. Just gather up your friends and shoot the highsec Kundalini. This will result the only available Incursions to be pvp-zones.
Btw, despite their buffer omnitanks, its pretty standard for VG bs have around 80-120k ehp, which is less than normal freighter |
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