you mean, make them easy gank sites. a falcon or 2 jamming out logi's at a oportune time could cost someone billions of isk. -1 V.Bad idea!

Eve as it currently stands needs to make itself easily affordable to more gamers. As time goes by more and more games are getting releassed/becoming F2P and eve certainly is falling behind

Would this be a registering to enter the fun kind of thing or a temporary 0.0 in high sec? I'd hate to be the person who's home turf got turned into a lawless war zone overnight.

Eve as it currently stands needs to make itself easily affordable to more gamers. As time goes by more and more games are getting releassed/becoming F2P and eve certainly is falling behind

you mean, make them easy gank sites. a falcon or 2 jamming out logi's at a oportune time could cost someone billions of isk.

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

Not only does this make sense in an immersive way but it also places high sec incursion income in line with that of low sec (and null to a lesser extent) but it also provides opt-in PvP for high sec dwellers in lieu of the Dec shield mechanics that nullify a lot of high sec PVP opportunity.

For those that don't like the inherent risk of PvP there are still decent income sources available in safer empire.

Edit: This provides a suitable risk versus reward considering L4 missions earn a conservative 20m per hour but incursions give a conservative 60-70m per hour.

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

.

Thinly veiled attempt to bypass CONCORD. -1. Incursions need to be fixed, I agree, but this isn't a good way to do it. Oh and um...WoW...thataway >. You're basically just trying to create Wintergrasp in Eve. For shame Spank, I've always held you in such high regard too.

If you want to compete with people in highsec incursions, get a fleet together and outgun them.

Simple.

you are missing the point of the OP.

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

Not only does this make sense in an immersive way but it also places high sec incursion income in line with that of low sec (and null to a lesser extent) but it also provides opt-in PvP for high sec dwellers in lieu of the Dec shield mechanics that nullify a lot of high sec PVP opportunity.

For those that don't like the inherent risk of PvP there are still decent income sources available in safer empire.

Edit: This provides a suitable risk versus reward considering L4 missions earn a conservative 20m per hour but incursions give a conservative 60-70m per hour.

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

Not only does this make sense in an immersive way but it also places high sec incursion income in line with that of low sec (and null to a lesser extent) but it also provides opt-in PvP for high sec dwellers in lieu of the Dec shield mechanics that nullify a lot of high sec PVP opportunity.

For those that don't like the inherent risk of PvP there are still decent income sources available in safer empire.

Edit: This provides a suitable risk versus reward considering L4 missions earn a conservative 20m per hour but incursions give a conservative 60-70m per hour.

I completely agree with your idea.
I think CCP should institute it as soon as they make tech moons only spawn in 0.8 space or higher, so you can't anchor a POS at one.

Not only does this make sense in an immersive way but it also places high sec incursion income in line with that of low sec (and null to a lesser extent) but it also provides opt-in PvP for high sec dwellers in lieu of the Dec shield mechanics that nullify a lot of high sec PVP opportunity.

I appreciate what you are saying but this is hardly a 'thinly veiled' effort, I thought it was rather transparent. It doesnt make the entirety of high sec a 'gank zone' but rather turns the currently contested high-income zero risk incursions into something more akin to low sec combat, but with equal inherent rewards. I dont think you need to be so paranoid as what I propose only affects those seeking high reward PVE... but with a risk of PVP, and as for making incursions impossible, you only have to look at the success some people have with low sec incursions to understand that this isnt simply making incursions gank-zones but rather areas of opportunity in high sec.

EDIT: I might look into what Wintergrasp is but I doubt it's relevant to Eve,

Edit: This provides a suitable risk versus reward considering L4 missions earn a conservative 20m per hour but incursions give a conservative 60-70m per hour.

If you want to compete with people in highsec incursions, get a fleet together and outgun them.

Simple.

"Hello, you have reached CONCORD Constellation Command. Due to Sansha activity in your area, we regret that our response time may be longer than normal. Para saber c+¦mo te van a ganked en espa+¦ol, pulse dos."

TLDR: Start it as PVE, but as CONCORD has to deal with the 'damage' from the invasion they are less likely to respond to the attacks and it can become more of a PVP event.

I like the idea of greater risk for incursions. My opinion though is that it should be a reduced response time based on the state of the Incursion. Initially CONCORD will cover the assault runners while they begin breaking it down (full protection). However, after the mother ship appears they become more involved with local affairs as the capsuleers are in a position to deal with the remaining problem. CONCORDS reaction time to a hostile event would be longer and longer after the spawn of the mothership. Maybe 1 second delay for every 4 minutes that the mother ship is up.

So an hour after the mother ship spawns CONCORD reaction time would be 15 seconds. After 2 hours it would be 30 seconds. There would also need to be a modification to the GMs rules that escaping from CONCORD in an Incursion system is NOT an exploit. Sec status hits for killing people in Incursion zones is lower than normal.

Incursion players still get to blast it out with CONCORD support (team work)
Gank crews can help summon the mother ship if they want (team work)
Once the mother ship appears, an organised group has to move quick as the clock ticks up on CONCORD's response time.
Gankers can try to delay the mother ship kill fleet to improve the delay on the CONCORD response.
If the mother ship is not defeated within 24 hours of spawning it will disband and not respawn for a few days (encourage players to do them or the reward goes away).
CONCORD's use of warp scramblers and webs would be more limited, but would gradually stack (Give PVP players, or angry PVE players, a chance to do hit and run raids).

I guess I am trying to find a middle ground here. I think PVE incusions should be permitted, but they should not be farmable. In this situation, if they move fast enough (and the spawn timer might need to be adjusted for various timezones to get a chance at them) they can get another one, but if they try and farm them there is not only a risk to the PVE players (PVP), but also a spawning penalty for not doing them.

No one would be in the zone except for 600 pirates hoping to catch noobs who wondered through, and while waiting massive pirate battles would break out and the zone would turn into........


0.0



I understand you're desire to gank people, but the noob target utopia you forsee wouldn't happen.

nerf all highsec income

i doubt you understand how moons work but incursion farming (70M ISK/hour average) and a tech moon (less than 10m isk/hour, with the added effort of having to fuel the tower, empty the silos and haul the moon minerals to Jita for sale) are two very different things

the more you know

Maybe if you guys actually paid your rank and file members a bit more of the raw income from 0.0 spoils, you would have more available for ops, instead of seeing them running high sec incursions.

last month we poured 18 tech moons worth of income into subcapital reimbursements alone, tell me more about how we don't give enough ISK to our members

and wow one tech moon, i am impressed, we have to fuel/empty/time 60+

If you can't get your members into CTAs it means you aren't giving them enough. Tho something tells me that figure isn't accurate anyway.

And even if it is. Then you are just as mad anyway because poor wittle nullsec moon empires might/are having to pour tech moon income into real SRP programs that are more than T1 frigs.

So the solution to the lords is kill hisec and see how many come to your empire instead of leaving the game. Start with random people grouping for fun in hisec. Then kill mining (O wait that was first) Then kill any mission running.

That should get them "members" to shut up about SRPs so we can enjoy our moon goo.

Incursion sites become non-CONCORD spawn zones, including the acc. gate. Players still get a global that they have to wait out in the site or any other site in the same system. Sec status drops still happen but with less droppage. As a result one can't PvP in an Incursion site without having to fix sec status or has to take the hassle of -10 in highsec.

Sounds good. Now, you face the massive Blobs taking over the incursions or you get popped for being in their territory and the focus is then taken away from incursions and more to 0.0 PVP.
Why not limit daily incursion runs per char? say 5 per day, which level you choose is up to you but only 5 then no more. That way you stifle the "farming" so people aren't pulling in ridiculous amounts of isk. IDK... Just a thought.

No I'm not. I know exactly what the OP is wanting here, I'm just telling them that they should probably try the current game mechanics to put risk in before poking and whining and demanding that someone else's game is broken.

that'd be unfair to incursions. I can run anoms all day if I want, if someone is bored enough to run incursion sites for 8 hours straight, fine by me. the issue is blitzing.

There is no risk under the current mechanics...

Drunk logi, Fake Logi, Crap FC, Network issues, Mass DCs, Module misclicks, on and on.

Compared to easy mode Anoms and Tech moons Incursions are downright risky. Especially with a pimped ship.

Please do not troll this thread. No one is this thick.

Drunk logi, Fake Logi, Crap FC, Network issues, Mass DCs, Module misclicks, on and on.

Compared to easy mode Anoms and Tech moons Incursions are downright risky. Especially with a pimped ship.

My AFK bomber causes more risk than you will ever face in a high sec incursion

Ah you saw my topic about adding balance to AFK cloaking I see. Just in case any fool still thinks I have not had serious experience with the various imbalances in nullsec such as AFK cloaking being +1 Advantage for large alliances.

So that is a very poor comparison for you to make because an AFKer with no indication he has returned is a serious risk. Tho that is another argument altogether.

I have stated just some of the reasons why Incursions are risky. Ignoring them in my opinion just shows willful ignorance on how they operate.

How do you think this will work?

Should the whole constellation should be like 0.0? No regulare citizen nor any "incursioner" will undock/come to said constellation as there would be millions of gankers, camping the gates and the stations, looking for easy kills.

No.

Your idea is to spread this "plague" in to high sec, do you really believe pve pilots will risk flying there with ships worth billions? What will be a risk for pvp pilots? loosing a 50mil ship?

INCURSION SHOULD RESULT IN SYSTEM SEC STATUS DROP

Common CONCORD, you set the security status for a system dont you? You have a full scale invasion and you don't drop the sec status?

All incursion systems should have their sec status drop to low security [with 24hours notice]. Why should people be able to do PI and feel 100% moving thier cargo around in a system where an incursion is taking place? [without risk[

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

Not only does this make sense in an immersive way but it also places high sec incursion income in line with that of low sec (and null to a lesser extent) but it also provides opt-in PvP for high sec dwellers in lieu of the Dec shield mechanics that nullify a lot of high sec PVP opportunity.

For those that don't like the inherent risk of PvP there are still decent income sources available in safer empire.

Edit: This provides a suitable risk versus reward considering L4 missions earn a conservative 20m per hour but incursions give a conservative 60-70m per hour.

nerf all highsec income

You realize that doing so would nerf null income as well right? I mean who else is going to by those X-type modules for fat iskies but high sec bears with more isk than sense?

To the OP, you know if you want to hunt Incursion runners you could always find some in Low or Null right?

Of course that would mean you'd be facing people who would be prepared to fight back.

Seriously bad idea, if the isk is really a problem (I don't think it is) then lower the payouts. This is just another low sec gank bear "I can't find easy targets so force people to feed me killmails" whine.

Just like all the "move L4s to low sec" it's predicated on the fallacious idea that the bears will just continue along their normal behavior rather than adapting (moving to more secure income streams or use less costly ships).

I say leave the high sec bears their safe income stream, I need a market for my wares so I can afford expensive non-doctrine ships to get blown up (we don't share the Goonies wonderfully liberal reimbursement plan ).

last month we poured 18 tech moons worth of income into subcapital reimbursements alone, tell me more about how we don't give enough ISK to our members

and wow one tech moon, i am impressed by your tenacity, we only have to fuel/empty/time 60+ along with 150+ other towers across 6-7 regions

then the pirates do the incursion and get the isk cause carebear fleet is too scared

What game mechanic stops people in high sec from protecting themselves like those in low sec?

That would force Incursion groups to hire mercs or others to defend them while running the sites as well, cutting in their excessive individual incomes... Great idea.

What a stupid idea! I could see within a week of this nonsense happening Incursions becoming a ghost town. Ever look at low sec/null incursions? Rarely done and most just left to withdraw. OP is simply looking for a easy gank plain and simple may I suggest Jita with your sensor boosted neutral RR friends? I agree Incursions (mostly Vanguard sites) need a changed but not everything should be PVP some people just like PVE and Empire is the place for it. Besides if you want to gank the sorry sods there are ways to do it now Wardecs,griefing or RR aggresion to name a few.

All rats use the same magic/tech to escape concord. All you are doing is trying to make hi sec into NULL sec. Just as stupid an idea as having all empires borders being lo sec.

Drunk logi, Fake Logi, Crap FC, Network issues, Mass DCs, Module misclicks, on and on.

Compared to easy mode Anoms and Tech moons Incursions are downright risky. Especially with a pimped ship.

Would this be a registering to enter the fun kind of thing or a temporary 0.0 in high sec? I'd hate to be the person who's home turf got turned into a lawless war zone overnight.

Please explain how it would make incursions no-risk duckshoots. 'pirates' could be shot at just as easily as 'carebears'.

Please explain the 'risk' involved in high sec incursions, and don't make me laugh.

In this thread people defend the right to be incompetent while having access to high levels of income.

How is it no risk PVP when everyone can be shot.

You can scan and have a support fleet too. Non issue. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.

You can scan and have a support fleet too. Non issue. You just want to have your cake and eat it too.

Question, sorry if already answered. Would this be for the entire constellation or just the sites?

I believe the proposal is to have slower CONCORD response to the actual Incursion site. The system itself remains normal.

No CONCORD, sites not systems.

No CONCORD, sites not systems.

Sounds good to me. If you aren't prepared to earn your high income you can go back to mission running.

It would become lower income than mission running, eventually no one will run the sites and you'll be finding something else to complain about. Sorry, but the game doesn't cater to just you and your buddies.

That works the other way around as well.

What would be your propositions to "fix" incursions ?

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

That works the other way around as well.

What would be your propositions to "fix" incursions ?

Translation: Mommy!, mommy! I'm so terrible at PVP I can't kill anything without CCP making the game easy for me.

Quit whining. HTFU or GTFO

Whatever tech Sansha are using to circumvent CONCORD and Navy effectiveness should extend to capsuleers.

this is the type of idea only an idiotic cowardly sociopath could support

pirate tears are so sweet

%^$gankers!!1!*%#

etc

this is the type of idea only an idiotic cowardly sociopath could support

pirate tears are so sweet

%^$gankers!!1!*%#

etc

I appreciate what you are saying but this is hardly a 'thinly veiled' effort, I thought it was rather transparent. It doesnt make the entirety of high sec a 'gank zone' but rather turns the currently contested high-income zero risk incursions into something more akin to low sec combat, but with equal inherent rewards. I dont think you need to be so paranoid as what I propose only affects those seeking high reward PVE... but with a risk of PVP, and as for making incursions impossible, you only have to look at the success some people have with low sec incursions to understand that this isnt simply making incursions gank-zones but rather areas of opportunity in high sec.

EDIT: I might look into what Wintergrasp is but I doubt it's relevant to Eve,

Competent people will run them, incompetents can stick to lower income activities.

Competent people will run them, incompetents can stick to lower income activities.

Again, if people can run incursions in low sec, there's nothing stopping people doing the same in high-sec. No one is suggesting fish in a barrel, that would be ridiculous. Please try and remain at least partially subjective in your counter arguments. Not posting on troll alts might also help your stance hold merit.

[quote=Lady Spank]...if people can run incursions in low sec, there's nothing stopping people doing the same in high-sec.../quote]

Except the people who run losec incursions aren't the people who run hisec incursion. Look, if you want to club baby seals just say it already and stop trying to present this idea as anything but.

+1 risk free PvP how Leet. lol On a more serious note i like jayems idea/ solution.

Explain how it is risk free considering the same conditions apply for both sides.

do you really believe pve pilots will risk flying there with ships worth billions? What will be a risk for pvp pilots? loosing a 50mil ship?

Op has a really good idea here Ccp!

This would stop all the whining, and let people settle this in proper eve fashion by blowing each other up

this is the type of idea only an idiotic cowardly sociopath could support

pirate tears are so sweet

%^$gankers!!1!*%#

etc

The thought is nice, but I'm convinced all it would be is gank squads on standby to warp on top of any group who dares to try and do any Incursion sites. Thus, kill the entire concept of Incursions in high sec.

Unless of course that was your entire goal?

No CONCORD, sites not systems.