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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.09 09:58:00 -
[241]
Nano-ships ARE too fast.
There are not enough counters. Interceptors often can't lock them at gates before they warp.
I do not want to HAVE to train Minmatar Cruiser 5 just to slow these imbalanced ships.
I have killed a lot of Vagabonds and other nanoships, but the fact that probably 75% of the ships I kill are nanofit suggests a problem. Most of my kills are by using a Domi with a MWD, A Large Neutralizer and fat tank and hoping/waiting for the nano-pilot to make a mistake.
Versus a 10+ nanogang which can damp friendly groups of minnie recons or easily kill any webber drones sent at them there is little counter which is exacxtly why they are so popular with Outbreak, Against All Authorities, Ushura'Khan, IRON and practically all other alliances that send roaming gangs out.
I'm not saying slow them all down, or even speed up missiles...
I'm just saying we need more counters than Minmatar Recon or a 10km range webber module.
I still dont get why you couldn't have smaller, faster (and much less effective) webber drones.
OP - you have my sympathies... Though I'm not surprised by the resistance considering how many people are using nano-ships.
- Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always skint!
Please read my ideas |
Iyanah
Minmatar
Mining Munitions and Mayhem
R i s e
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Posted - 2007.10.09 10:12:00 -
[242]
 Originally by: Kazuma Saruwatari
about damn time someone whined about the speed tanks
indeed. we've never had anyone bring this issue to light before
look. an interceptor is supposed to be hard t ocatch for your t1 battleship you muppets!
it's perfectly possible to catch them, and hey, they're also made fo paper, so a recon slapping a single webber on them makes them sniperfodder - they'll die in one volley. the same is true if you manage to get them moving directly towards or away from you, as their transversal will be almost zero and that whopping great speed does two things:
jack and s**t.
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Iy
please remember: I AM a sarcastic ******* and nothing i say has ever represented the thoughts or feelings of my corp, alliance, or anyone really. read |
Herring
Pimpology
Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2007.10.09 12:03:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Moridin920
It would be one thing if they changed it based on your argument, which is pretty good. The logical result of that would be just take off top speed, and when the missile runs out of fuel it explodes (or explodes when it hits if it hits before it runs out of fuel).
However, you are extrapolating that argument to say that we can just increase missile speeds. I don't see how you jump from the no top speed in space to making missiles faster, since the ships themselves will also have a relatively low drag coefficient, and will have much more fuel and thrust power in their larger engines than a tiny missile ever could.
In an atmosphere, tiny is great. In space, it doesn't matter as much except for the initial power of accelerating a larger object. If the ship is already going at insane speeds, a missile can't necessarily catch up before burning off all it's fuel just because it's smaller.
If they are going to change anything, I would say increase the top speeds on many ships but make them accelerate much slower based on their mass (and resulting inertia).
But that wouldn't really do much anyway, so I vote for keep it the same.
In space, fuel for missiles would only be used to get them up to speed, then it would only be used for course changes
TBH evelistically, Ishukone has probably already patented missiles with nanotechnology and microwarp drives. They should really make an expensive appearance quite soon. The OP is right about one thing....missiles shouldn't be made to go 4-8x slower than the fastest ships out there.
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Devious
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Posted - 2007.10.09 12:14:00 -
[244]
ok yeah speed tanks suck, but at teh same time as sucking fit a ceptor with speed rigs and sig rigs, modules a nice gistii A type A-burner and watch how many level 5 missions you can solo with one. need for speed? need for IQ!!!!!! CCP screwed this game since they aquired it so many years ago...whats another screw up?
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Raven DeBlade
Caldari
Bladerunners
Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.10.09 15:31:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
Nano-ships ARE too fast.
There are not enough counters. Interceptors often can't lock them at gates before they warp.
I do not want to HAVE to train Minmatar Cruiser 5 just to slow these imbalanced ships.
I have killed a lot of Vagabonds and other nanoships, but the fact that probably 75% of the ships I kill are nanofit suggests a problem. Most of my kills are by using a Domi with a MWD, A Large Neutralizer and fat tank and hoping/waiting for the nano-pilot to make a mistake.
Versus a 10+ nanogang which can damp friendly groups of minnie recons or easily kill any webber drones sent at them there is little counter which is exacxtly why they are so popular with Outbreak, Against All Authorities, Ushura'Khan, IRON and practically all other alliances that send roaming gangs out.
I'm not saying slow them all down, or even speed up missiles...
I'm just saying we need more counters than Minmatar Recon or a 10km range webber module.
I still dont get why you couldn't have smaller, faster (and much less effective) webber drones.
OP - you have my sympathies... Though I'm not surprised by the resistance considering how many people are using nano-ships.
Yes countermeasures are far to weak, they havnt kept up with the speed. Webbers have far to short range, Webber drones are totally useless. Neutralizers have far to much penalty for most ships etc etc.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees" |
Verone
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.10.09 16:03:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Splagada
tank... most nano ships do as much dps as my grandma on valium.
Hey... don't diss... she's bad ass.
>>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
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Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2007.10.09 16:27:00 -
[247]
The upside to a speed tank is almost no one can kill you.
The downside to a speed tank is almost no one can die to you.
Plus, keep in mind to reach those crazy speeds you're talking about, boosters, implants, hardwirings, faction MWDs, rigs, it all adds up. 250m+ on an interceptor that could die in one little lagging out is balance enough in my mind  .
Eve Golden Rules |
Damian Vilsalant
Minmatar
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Posted - 2007.10.09 16:36:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Damian Vilsalant on 09/10/2007 16:39:57
Only read first post (yeah sorry whatever) and I have to agree with the OP.
Speeds needs to be looked into by CCP (again). It's actually not as much the speed that disturbs me - it's more the combination of extreme speeds (like 15km/s) combined with the usual lag in EVE. So even if I instantly target that Vaga and click my Webber then I still will NEVER catch the Vaga simply because he'll be at 50km before the crappy server even registers my module activation.
You can't expect FPS-like action (where every millisecond counts) but at the same time expect the game to work if you have a default latency of 1000 milliseconds or above.
Of course lag can also screw up the speed fitted ships but on the other hand, as soon as they have their MWD on they are pretty much invul because you can't lock them fast enough simply due to lag.
A solution would be (especially fast) Webber Missiles that disrupt the targets MWD or engine for a few seconds (so you can stop a ship even if you only get a lock on him when he's already 20km off).
The combination of 15km/s and lag is simply what makes this whole thing a little broken. |
UmbralKnight
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Posted - 2007.10.09 17:02:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..
.......
CCP's need for speed has completely castrated any ability to effectively counter speed setups.
Discuss
I agree with you that its ridiculous and a big discrepancy that missiles are slower than a ship that is thousands of times heavier. Even in EVE "rules" that is not supposed to be. I also find it kind of funny. I think I'll try this "nano" setup one day.
But I have a question: Do you seriously expect your post to be taken seriously by a community who is for the most part just plain stupid?
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.09 17:37:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Splagada
repeat after me
h.u...g...g...i...n
c.e.r.b.e.r.u.s
also :
tank... most nano ships do as much dps as my grandma on valium.
smartbomb, bye drones. then what
oh a fly orbits around me.
Thread winner.
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Support fixing the EVE UI |
Varia Net
Caldari
KO Solutions
E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2007.10.09 17:41:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Illyria Ambri
Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..
Cloaks
Remote Sensor Damps
etc...
We need to add another meal to the nerfbats plate.
Speed mod.
Discuss
There was a nerf already
If whiners as you got things their way,
eve would be very boring.
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.09 17:41:00 -
[252]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa
tl;dr
Honestly, after reading the first page of replies and putting some serious thought in it, I have decided this:
Despite the "real life" connection, the OP has some very valid points about flight of missiles.
Regardless of where you are, missiles do consist of two things. A warhead which detonates upon a variety of possible achieved values AND a propulsion method of some sort.
If you take those that into account, and throw it into outer space into our EVE Galaxy, you get this:
Vacuum of space meets tiny missile. Tiny missile has enough thrust to make it accelerate indefinitely. Because in space, there is relatively no drag coefficient. Bearing that in mind, any missile should continuously accelerate SO LONG as it has fuel propelling it towards it's target. If you were in atmosphere of some sort, the missile would reach it's top speed eventually: where the drag is forumulated by taking the weight of the object against the contents and density of the atmosphere itself.
Because you are in space, the top speed of the missile would be reached when the engines shut off and the missile would then only be able to fly in the direction that it was last heading for, engines dead. However for EVE, we will just say the missile explodes at that point.
So, IN ORDER TO MAKE THIS ENTIRE POST HERE PLAUSIBLE, I will say that we do not need to nerf speed modules necessarily, but increase missile speeds to be a viable method of knocking down quick-moving ships.
Fair?
No, not fair. Turret ships are boned. And drone ships.
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Support fixing the EVE UI |
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
The Fifth Race
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Posted - 2007.10.09 21:34:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Xaen
No, not fair. Turret ships are boned. And drone ships.
Well, I know what you mean. I fly Gallente ships and have the heart of my skills in Drones. So I get slapped across the face too.
However, the OP was stating the issue about missiles, so I just rang in my opinion.
EVE has always been a game about who has the superior skills and makes the wisest decisions. If you encounter a fleet of people who are skilled and intelligent with nanoships and you have a fleet of bigger, slower maneuvering ships, you have an interesting fight. The nanofleet has smaller ships generally and if you approach the fight correctly, you have a decent chance to take them out. But that's only if you have enough tank to sustain damage long enough to pick off the hostile targets one at a time. Eventually, when the nanofleet's DPS is not sufficient enough to take out anyone in your fleet, they will leave.
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