Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

Originally by: Splagada

---

repeat after me

h.u...g...g...i...n

c.e.r.b.e.r.u.s

also :

tank... most nano ships do as much dps as my grandma on valium.

smartbomb, bye drones. then what

oh a fly orbits around me.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

No

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You obviously missed the part about using an nano inty to counter their nano.

Smartbomb.. we aren't talking about defending against drones.. we are talking about drones at max skills still being unable to catch nano's

Try reading the post first.

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

LoL.. now this is damn funny.. me.. in a solo pwnmobile.. that will be the day.

Yes my ratting raven is pure pwnage as is my tissue paper stealth bomber.

---

Originally by: oDDiTy V2

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

No

---

Hi, welcome to EVE-Online, a make-believe universe set thousands of years in the future, where your real-life comparisons hold no water due to the fact that are, in the world of EVE, an ancient forgotten technology many millenia outdated.

---

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

---

Second, a gentile is a non jewish person

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

LoL.. now this is damn funny.. me.. in a solo pwnmobile.. that will be the day.

Yes my ratting raven is pure pwnage as is my tissue paper stealth bomber.

---

Ok you want to be able to shoot everything in your raven then. Point remains valid.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: oDDiTy V2

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

No

---

Hi, welcome to EVE-Online, a make-believe universe set thousands of years in the future, where your real-life comparisons hold no water due to the fact that are, in the world of EVE, an ancient forgotten technology many millenia outdated.

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

LOL...that's right man, anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a terrorist nanotard. Keep spouting that, it will aid your argument.

---

Originally by: oDDiTy V2

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

LOL...that's right man, anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a terrorist nanotard. Keep spouting that, it will aid your argument.

---

The best part is that he's completely wrong

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

The lighter the warhead and supporting electronics, the faster the missile will be if all other things are taken into consideration. This would mean that unguided an unguided missile or rocket, with the same thruster, will be faster than a guided missile or rocket.

It's completely reversed and fubar'd beyond sci-fi, or sci-real. I find it completely distracting to the point of silliness when I feel I should be impressed with the thought of futuristic technologies.

This is a failing point in game immersion, grade - F

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

You thinking that mass has an effect on acceleration in zero gravity space is a failing point.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

/real life example


Discuss

---

Originally by: Asmosis

---

Bah I can't kill a POS in my ratting ship, nerf POS >.>

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

No

---

Originally by: Boomershoot

---

speed is fine
nerf players

lol, no really, why would they nerf something like speed? they already made the game unreal giving stargates 10 or more times the mass of a solar system (compare this to RL :|)

no really, how can u compare EVE to RL knowning we have faster-than-light travel, quantum physics paradoxes to communicate with eachother in-game and ammo fired at over 350km/s? (just because over that distance, you are out of a grid)

RL Physics =/= EVE Physics

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Looks like the OP realized what an epic failure of a thread he created and went into hiding.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Originally by: Boomershoot

---

speed is fine
nerf players

lol, no really, why would they nerf something like speed? they already made the game unreal giving stargates 10 or more times the mass of a solar system (compare this to RL :|)

no really, how can u compare EVE to RL knowning we have faster-than-light travel, quantum physics paradoxes to communicate with eachother in-game and ammo fired at over 350km/s? (just because over that distance, you are out of a grid)

RL Physics =/= EVE Physics

---

All of these points you must believe there's technology in the future to compensate, or advances that are beyond our comprehension - but missile and rockets being slower if they used the same thruster technology is completely ridiculous.

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

No

---

Ok have it your way.

In real life there is no top spead in space. Therefore all ships should be able to move as fast as they want.

See what comes of RL examples?

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

LOL...that's right man, anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a terrorist nanotard. Keep spouting that, it will aid your argument.

---

Originally by: oDDiTy V2

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

No

---

Hi, welcome to EVE-Online, a make-believe universe set thousands of years in the future, where your real-life comparisons hold no water due to the fact that are, in the world of EVE, an ancient forgotten technology many millenia outdated.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

LOL...that's right man, anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a terrorist nanotard. Keep spouting that, it will aid your argument.

---

Trying to put words in my mouth eh.. good argument...
You fail.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Originally by: Boomershoot

---

speed is fine
nerf players

lol, no really, why would they nerf something like speed? they already made the game unreal giving stargates 10 or more times the mass of a solar system (compare this to RL :|)

no really, how can u compare EVE to RL knowning we have faster-than-light travel, quantum physics paradoxes to communicate with eachother in-game and ammo fired at over 350km/s? (just because over that distance, you are out of a grid)

RL Physics =/= EVE Physics

---

All of these points you must believe there's technology in the future to compensate, or advances that are beyond our comprehension - but missile and rockets being slower if they used the same thruster technology is completely ridiculous.

---

Ok, let's use this simplified example (with eve physics):
Missile thrust / Missile mass = missile speed
Ship thrust / ship mass = ship speed
If you increase the ship's thrust (overdrives) or decrease it's mass (nanofibers) shouldn't the ship's speed increase?
Concrete example:
Missile: 1000 units of thrust / 100 units of mass = 10 units of speed
Nanoship: 140000 units of thrust / 7000 units of mass = 20 units of speed
ZOMG HOW CAN THE SHIP BE FASTER?! THEY HAX PHYSICS!

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Your formula's attempt to describe acceleration, not top speed, and their incorrect.

BUT

If you were to try and compare acceleration, which a missile or rocket should completely pwn a ship in sublight travel, you'd need to be more accurate in your thrust to mass scenario.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You dont seem to be able to comprehend the inconsistency of having thousands of tons of mass being able to out accelerate and outrun a mechanism that should be designed to catch most anything.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

How does a company stay in business when its products cannot accomplish what they are designed to do... simple.. they dont stay in business.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Oh.. so you support the fact that any nano ship can completly neuter the effect of any missile as the missile (which are designed to go faster then the ships they are shot at) goes many times slower then any nano ship.

Thank you for expressing your desire for lack of balance.
You must fly a nano

---

LOL...that's right man, anyone who disagrees with you is obviously a terrorist nanotard. Keep spouting that, it will aid your argument.

---

Trying to put words in my mouth eh.. good argument...
You fail.

---

Because he disagreed with you, you claimed that he was both a nano ship pilot and someone who actively does not want the game to be balanced. Makes perfect sense to me.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Your formula's attempt to describe acceleration, not top speed, and their incorrect.

BUT

If you were to try and compare acceleration, which a missile or rocket should completely pwn a ship in sublight travel, you'd need to be more accurate in your thrust to mass scenario.

---

True, but technically speaking there should be no top speed on any ship in space until it starts getting close to the speed of light. But the general argument I'm making is that ships may have additional thrust added or mass removed to increase their top speed, while missiles do not have this option. The additional thrust can compensate for the additional mass.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Because he disagreed with you, you claimed that he was both a nano ship pilot and someone who actively does not want the game to be balanced. Makes perfect sense to me.

---

Hey.. it seems to work for everyone crying to nerf remote sensor damps and cloaks.. like I said.. if you cannot beat them.. join them.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Exactly... so if we were to say that all entities have a top speed, and all entities have comparable forms of acceleration but different masses (i.e. Intie speed vs. BS) then it stands to argue that missile and rocket speeds are FAR from even being stupidly inaccurate, they've 'gone to plaid' in ignorance...

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You dont seem to be able to comprehend the inconsistency of having thousands of tons of mass being able to out accelerate and outrun a mechanism that should be designed to catch most anything.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

RL examples (fighter, missile ...)

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You dont seem to be able to comprehend the inconsistency of having thousands of tons of mass being able to out accelerate and outrun a mechanism that should be designed to catch most anything.

*straw man cut*

---

Quote:

---

If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.

---

Originally by: Bizz Lizz

---

Edited by: Bizz Lizz on 27/09/2007 16:22:40

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Caldari Navy Cruise missile at 1.25 tons and flys at 3750 m/s or 3.7km/s.

---

Taken from a wiki:

Saturn 5, 3.000 tons, 110m high, had a velocity of 8600m/s, when the 1st stage was burnt out and had still a mass of about 1.000 tons at that point right before the 1st stage was cut off.

Of course, physical circumstances are not comparable between the two examples, but same with EVE and RL.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 27/09/2007 16:20:24

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Because he disagreed with you, you claimed that he was both a nano ship pilot and someone who actively does not want the game to be balanced. Makes perfect sense to me.

---

Hey.. it seems to work for everyone crying to nerf remote sensor damps and cloaks.. like I said.. if you cannot beat them.. join them.

---

It's still an ad hominum attack and does not lend credibility to your argument.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Exactly... so if we were to say that all entities have a top speed, and all entities have comparable forms of acceleration but different masses (i.e. Intie speed vs. BS) then it stands to argue that missile and rocket speeds are FAR from even being stupidly inaccurate, they've 'gone to plaid' in ignorance...

---

It all depends on the numbers though - if a ship's thrust/mass ratio is greater than a missile's, why shouldn't it accelerate faster?

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..

Cloaks
Remote Sensor Damps
etc...

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

The game stats for speed lack credibility.. so much so they are ludicrous.

---

Quote:

---

Thats just it.. a ship with a mass of 10k tons shouldn't have a higher thrust/mass ratio then a 1.25 ton missile designed to run it down and pop it.

*awaits the "Well this isn't real life retort"*

---

Originally by: 343conspiracy43345

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..

Cloaks
Remote Sensor Damps
etc...

---

For remote sensor damns proof or STFU.

For cloaks, they are only nerfing those who dont use cloak specialized ships. So STFU.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Thats just it.. a ship with a mass of 10k tons shouldn't have a higher thrust/mass ratio then a 1.25 ton missile designed to run it down and pop it.

*awaits the "Well this isn't real life retort"*

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You dont seem to be able to comprehend the inconsistency of having thousands of tons of mass being able to out accelerate and outrun a mechanism that should be designed to catch most anything.

*straw man cut*

---

No I understand it perfectly. What you don't seem to understand is that by arguing for real physics you're arguing for no top speed. That would be the opposite of a nano nerf.

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

At least I understand the absurdity of arguing RL physics in a game. Do you want chat removed too? That's the single most physics breaking aspect of Eve.

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

You've already admitted that you're a raven and sb pilot. You've failed to address the counter arguments with anything more eloquent than "Un Ah".

Your whole position can be summed up as follows:
I fly rock. Nerf paper.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

But if you purchase a small ship designed to be light and fast, and then spent lots of money to weld additional engines to it and remove as much mass from the hull and armor as possible, who's to say it isn't possible?
Either way EVE's goal isn't to be realistic, so your argument against the realism is a moot point. If it was I could make all sorts of arguments about how you instantly hit something 250KM away, which would require shells to be traveling faster than any energy source could ever propel them. Just because it's unrealistic doesn't give me the right to demand railguns be nerfed.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

A ship designed to be light and fast such as intys are 1 thing.
Heavy Assult Nano ships are another.
Intys go fast.. thats fine.. they are designed to do so. Heavy assult cruisers like the vagabond are not designed for extreme speeds.

---

Originally by: Item Database

---

The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat.

...

Improving on the original Stabber design, Thukker Mix created the Vagabond as a cruiser-sized skirmish vessel equally suited to defending mobile installations and executing lightning strikes at their enemies. Honoring their tradition of building the fastest vessels to ply the spacelanes, they count the Vagabond as one of their crowning achievements.

---

Originally by: KoolKrewl

---

Originally by: 343conspiracy43345

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..

Cloaks
Remote Sensor Damps
etc...

---

For remote sensor damns proof or STFU.


For cloaks, they are only nerfing those who dont use cloak specialized ships. So STFU.

---

link

---

Originally by: Trishan

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Guns.. cannot track something so fast.. completely ineffective vs speed.
<SNIPPAGE>
Vagabond which weighs in at 10 thousand metric tons and can reach speeds in excess of 6km/s or more(Could a nano vaga pilot verify this speed)

---

A nano vaga pilot?
So you saying you cannot track something so fast, yet misteriously the vaga can track you? Without any kind of tracking computers or enhancers? Riiiiiiiiight.

Quit the trolling.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

A ship designed to be light and fast such as intys are 1 thing.
Heavy Assult Nano ships are another.
Intys go fast.. thats fine.. they are designed to do so. Heavy assult cruisers like the vagabond are not designed for extreme speeds.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

A ship designed to be light and fast such as intys are 1 thing.
Heavy Assult Nano ships are another.
Intys go fast.. thats fine.. they are designed to do so. Heavy assult cruisers like the vagabond are not designed for extreme speeds.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You do know that when you orbit something.. their transversal is ALOT bigger then yours is.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

A ship designed to be light and fast such as intys are 1 thing.
Heavy Assult Nano ships are another.
Intys go fast.. thats fine.. they are designed to do so. Heavy assult cruisers like the vagabond are not designed for extreme speeds.

---

Er...

Originally by: Item Database

---

The fastest cruiser invented to date, this vessel is ideal for hit-and-run ops where both speed and firepower are required. Its on-board power core may not be strong enough to handle some of the larger weapons out there, but when it comes to guerilla work, the Vagabond can't be beat.

...

Improving on the original Stabber design, Thukker Mix created the Vagabond as a cruiser-sized skirmish vessel equally suited to defending mobile installations and executing lightning strikes at their enemies. Honoring their tradition of building the fastest vessels to ply the spacelanes, they count the Vagabond as one of their crowning achievements.

---

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

And when you pack it full of nano's its much faster then intended.
Nano's being the new standard fitting.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

There is a difference between arguing rl physics and pointing our a glaring inconsistancy in speed differences.
Missiles go less then 4km per second.
Ships can fly up to 12km per second

This is what we call a glaring inconsistency whether you want to acknowledge it or not..

---

Quote:

---

This has nothing to do with Local..

---

Quote:

---

Just because you don't understand the argument dosen't mean its any less valid.
I have yet to see any counter argument from you other then
RL is not EvE

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Trishan

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Guns.. cannot track something so fast.. completely ineffective vs speed.
<SNIPPAGE>
Vagabond which weighs in at 10 thousand metric tons and can reach speeds in excess of 6km/s or more(Could a nano vaga pilot verify this speed)

---

A nano vaga pilot?
So you saying you cannot track something so fast, yet misteriously the vaga can track you? Without any kind of tracking computers or enhancers? Riiiiiiiiight.

Quit the trolling.

---

You do know that when you orbit something.. their transversal is ALOT bigger then yours is.

Its much easier to keep guns on a target when you are orbiting it at high speeds then when its orbiting you.

When the speed difference is enough that the target ship is essentially standing still such as any battleship. Its easy to target the battleship.. its geometrically more difficult to target the fast moving ship orbiting you. Thats the whole point of orbiting a target.. it makes it hard for them to shoot you but much easier for you to shoot them.

I'd use a real world example but noone seems to want to acknowledge that the real world does have some bearings on things.

---

Originally by: Tamia Clant

---

So you claim that missiles should be going faster than ships. They're lighter, therefore should get higher speeds than a bulky ship. So far i even agree with you.

But what is it that makes nanoships go so fast? Microwarpdrives. These ships aren't following the laws of physics you're trying to apply with your argument, they're doing extremely short warps that allows them to go at speeds that outrun missiles. Unless you're going to argument fitting a warp drive to a tiny missile, it makes perfect sense (within the world of EVE) that ships should be able to reach those speeds.

Second, missile stats need to stay as they are. Balance comes before realism, and if missiles were able to reach those speeds, they wouldn't be balanced in comparison to turrets.

If you wanna whine about nanoships being too fast, fine, i won't enter that argument. But making missiles faster is NOT the solution.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

So make MWD missiles / rockets, but small warheads on them.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

Originally by: Alatari

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

Velocity of the Earth (5.9742 + 10^24 kilograms) = 30 km/s

Nerf planets!

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 27/09/2007 15:47:54
Yuppers...

When you consider that the same technology would be applied to missiles as ships for thrust, it doesn't make sense that a vessel that contains equipment that a missile doesn't need (life support, a crew, shields, armor plating, faster than light drive, and ammunition) and the missile is slower?

Makes no sense at all.

The lighter the warhead and supporting electronics, the faster the missile will be if all other things are taken into consideration. This would means that an unguided missile or rocket, with the same thruster, will be faster than a guided missile or rocket.

It's completely reversed and fubar'd beyond sci-fi, or sci-real. I find it completely distracting to the point of silliness when I feel I should be impressed with the thought of futuristic technologies.

This is a failing point in game immersion, grade - F

---

Originally by: Tortun Nahme

---

I have to believe Illyria is just pulling all our legs

or I will lose all faith in her

---

Quote:

---

An ultra-heavy unguided nuclear missile. Slow and dumb but its sheer damage potential is simply staggering.

---

Quote:

---

Light assault missile. An advanced missile with a volatile payload of magnetized plasma, the Sabretooth is a multi-purpose missile specifically engineered to take down shield systems.

---

Originally by: Admiral Annihilation

---

Edited by: Admiral Annihilation on 27/09/2007 17:51:25
OH NO MY TORPS CANT HIT SOMETHING ORBITING WHAAAAAA WHAAAA
check the description of the missiles itself!

Bane Torpedo

Quote:

---

An ultra-heavy unguided nuclear missile. Slow and dumb but its sheer damage potential is simply staggering.

---

Its a TORPEDO, not a mach 30 super missile with a warhead the size of a walnut.

sabretooth light missile

Quote:

---

Light assault missile. An advanced missile with a volatile payload of magnetized plasma, the Sabretooth is a multi-purpose missile specifically engineered to take down shield systems.

---

Top speed 3750m/s
3,750m/s = 12,303f/s = = 8,388mph = about mach 13(at 250,000miles alt).

My point is, light missiles should and sometimes do hit you with the right skills, and thats a-ok. But don't start whining that your cruise missile and torpedo the size of a school bus cannot catch an interceptor or vagabond.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Quote:

---

My point is, light missiles should and sometimes do hit you with the right skills, and thats a-ok. But don't start whining that your cruise missile and torpedo the size of a school bus cannot catch an interceptor or vagabond.

---

Ppl Ppl.. I'm not "complaining" about interceptors.. they go fast.. thats their job.. I'm totally cool with that and do not have a problem with them in any way, nor do I have a problem with the fact that missiles cannot hit them due to their speed.
I pointed out before I wasn't referring to Inty's but i guess everyone just glossed over that part.

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

So make MWD missiles / rockets, but small warheads on them.

---

Kind of like T2 precisions?

As for the graviton beam poster. That's been in the database for a while. We've been through many patches without seeing it.

---

Originally by: Splagada

---

repeat after me

h.u...g...g...i...n

c.e.r.b.e.r.u.s

also :

tank... most nano ships do as much dps as my grandma on valium.

smartbomb, bye drones. then what

oh a fly orbits around me.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Your formula's attempt to describe acceleration, not top speed, and their incorrect.

BUT

If you were to try and compare acceleration, which a missile or rocket should completely pwn a ship in sublight travel, you'd need to be more accurate in your thrust to mass scenario.

---

True, but technically speaking there should be no top speed on any ship in space until it starts getting close to the speed of light.

---

Originally by: Splagada

---

repeat after me

h.u...g...g...i...n

c.e.r.b.e.r.u.s

also :

tank... most nano ships do as much dps as my grandma on valium.

smartbomb, bye drones. then what

oh a fly orbits around me.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

So make MWD missiles / rockets, but small warheads on them.

---

Kind of like T2 precisions?

As for the graviton beam poster. That's been in the database for a while. We've been through many patches without seeing it.

---

I don't remember the precision missiles stats off the top of my head, but if I recall they go the same speed as a light missile - the explosives in the warhead however have a different explosion radius to have a greater effectiveness vs. a smaller ship resolution. Precision missiles ARE the missile to use vs. smaller ships, but ship speeds have gone to the point of outrunning missiles completely, which makes precisions useless.

Which brings us back to the first point. All things being equal, mass vs. mass, a missile or rocket should out accelerate a ship and run it down at full velocity. The lightest of missiles should be the fastest thing in the game, even faster than the lightest of ships. Parity, or game balance, obviously would have to be kept in mind, but under no circumstance should a missile at close range not hit a ship - that is in a game where missiles never miss.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

You were whining about nano-vagabonds, specifically. Which the individual you quoted mentioned.

Do you have any logical arguments that haven't been refuted yet?

---

The vaga was used as an example of a heavy ship with a massive speed imbalance.

Its hard to argue against "Well this is EvE"

---

Originally by: Ki Tarra

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You do know that when you orbit something.. their transversal is ALOT bigger then yours is.

---

You do know that with the way that Eve calculates transversal, that it doesn't matter who is orbiting who, the angular velocity is exactly the same?

You don't help your creditability with missile mechanics when you mess up with other mechanics.

Maybe you are not aware of the fact that you can still hit ships that are moving faster than your missiles?

---

Originally by: Saladel Grunthor

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Your formula's attempt to describe acceleration, not top speed, and their incorrect.

BUT

If you were to try and compare acceleration, which a missile or rocket should completely pwn a ship in sublight travel, you'd need to be more accurate in your thrust to mass scenario.

---

True, but technically speaking there should be no top speed on any ship in space until it starts getting close to the speed of light.

---

qft

He's right... the flaw isn't in that there is a top speed difference the flaw is that there is a top speed. A better system would be a geometric/exponential decrease in acceleration and thrust capability as one gets faster. Also the ability to coast. You know the whole "an object in motion stays in motion until.." law.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

You were whining about nano-vagabonds, specifically. Which the individual you quoted mentioned.

Do you have any logical arguments that haven't been refuted yet?

---

The vaga was used as an example of a heavy ship with a massive speed imbalance.

Its hard to argue against "Well this is EvE"

---

But why is it imbalanced? Just because it can outrun missiles doesn't make it imbalanced, because in exchange for the ability to outrun and outtrack it's opponents it can't effectively prevent a target from escaping or deal a whole lot of damage to it. Just because your particular setup wasn't capable of defeating it doesn't make it unbalanced in general.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Its a fast ship, yes.
But with all the speed mods that EVERYONE and their ^#^%#$^ sister is slapping on, its obvious that the huge speeds that can be acheived by ships still needs balancing.
Don't just focus on this 1 single example of a nano ship. I'm sure plenty of people can relate their tales of nano gang encounters that would have turned out differently if speeds wern't as extreme as they can be.

I've never been killed by a nano so don't go assuming that I'm complaining cause I got popped by 1. I have yet to loose a ship to a nano gang. But most normal people can see that the missiles are entirely too slow compared to the speeds that can now be achieved by ships nowadays.

Now if you can show me a blog or a screenshot showing that CCP slowed missiles down because they were too fast, that would be something else to consider. But as a previous poster pointed out.. MWD's were not in the game when the speed of missiles was set. Its 1 thing (that I do NOT have a problem with) being able to outrun the explosion velocity.. its a completely different issue the fact that missile speeds are so pathetically slow compared to the ships in space nowadays.
But we are not talking about missile damage to ships or explosion velocity..
This is all about the raw missile speed when compared to the current ship speeds that is out of whack.

---

Quote:

---

Pretty much all you have to do nowadays is slap on 2-3 speed mods and/or a MWD and you become immune to missles and pretty effectively defeat gunners.
Nor is this about how much damage the speed tank can or cannot do as that is not the issue.
The problem is.. everyone is fitting speed setups just as everyone is fitting RSD's.
Why? cause its pretty much an "I win" button and everyone knows it.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

MWD's were not in the game when the speed of missiles was set.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

With the advent of the MWD.. we need a skill or mod that actually increases missile speeds to todays lvls.

---

Originally by: Saladel Grunthor

---

I can't agree with this. I know that when I'm being orbited at high velocity if I turn the ship in the direction of the orbit I have a greater propensity to hit the orbiting vessel. This actual tactic seems to indicate that the game mechanics work differently then you believe. I would love to see an official dev post or linkage to something from eve to confirm the actual mechanics and not our collective differing beliefs.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

etc...

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

etc...

---

Someday you will have to accept the fact that, as I have stated twice now, I'm not talking about the damn interceptors.

Until then, I'm not gonna bother with you

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

I am also well aware that EVE missiles have a computer targeting system with the IQ of a cabbage..

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

etc...

---

Someday you will have to accept the fact that, as I have stated twice now, I'm not talking about the damn interceptors.

Until then, I'm not gonna bother with you

---

What ships other than interceptors and vagabonds are you referring to? They are the only ones I've seen you mention.

---

Originally by: Achuramale

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

etc...

---

Someday you will have to accept the fact that, as I have stated twice now, I'm not talking about the damn interceptors.

Until then, I'm not gonna bother with you

---

What ships other than interceptors and vagabonds are you referring to? They are the only ones I've seen you mention.

---

Yeah would be interesting to know what you trying to get nerfed. Eg. regular nanohac¦s speed is between 3-4k/s I guess and if you feel that is overpowered I don¦t know what to say. You do realize that cruisers are the second smallest ships in game right ? They are not heavy ships as you keep referring them as. HAC = Heavy Assault Cruiser so it¦s heavy ship in the cruiser class...

I hated it when you go get bs¦es easily go over 10k/s that was ridiculous and unbalanced but getting cruisers to go few k per sec ain¦t definetly that.

And sure you can get ships to go lot faster than that but then you need faction, the most expensive rigs, implants, etc. and tbh I don¦t really mind if stuff like polycarbs or snake bonuses are altered just keep your hands of the basic t2 **** and rigs like auxiliary thrusters which aint unbalanced.

This game needs more ways to fit your ship than just tank or gank and speed is the only other option atm.

---

Originally by: Gamesguy

---

I can't help but notice that the OP has a very expensive faction fitted vaga with polys and snakes and compared it to a cruise missile...without skill or ship modifiers.

In reality, a 3750m/s missile will go 3750*1.5(skill bonus)*1.5(ship bonus)*1.15(rig bonus)*1.15(rig bonus)*1.15(rig bonus)=12800m/s.

That fast enough for you?

---

Originally by: P'uck

---

I know somebody who heard somebody say that an Osprey defeated Chuck Norris. Twice. Need I say more?

---

Originally by: Splagada

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

You thinking that mass has an effect on acceleration in zero gravity space is a failing point.

---

actually it does ! F=ma works anywhere

---

Originally by: Nicho Void

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

---

I'd like to slap you.

Stop with the real life comparisons and nerf nerfs.

---

Originally by: CCP Chronotis

---

Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Edited by: Christari Zuborov on 27/09/2007 15:47:54
Yuppers...

When you consider that the same technology would be applied to missiles as ships for thrust, it doesn't make sense that a vessel that contains equipment that a missile doesn't need (life support, a crew, shields, armor plating, faster than light drive, and ammunition) and the missile is slower?

Makes no sense at all.

The lighter the warhead and supporting electronics, the faster the missile will be if all other things are taken into consideration. This would means that an unguided missile or rocket, with the same thruster, will be faster than a guided missile or rocket.

It's completely reversed and fubar'd beyond sci-fi, or sci-real. I find it completely distracting to the point of silliness when I feel I should be impressed with the thought of futuristic technologies.

This is a failing point in game immersion, grade - F

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..

Cloaks
Remote Sensor Damps
etc...

We need to add another meal to the nerfbats plate.
Speed mod.

IN short.. they are simply way too fast or overpowered if you prefer that term.
When you can nano/speed mod a ship to the point its flying 12000km per second.. thats over overpowered. There is no way to stop such ships much less gangs of them.

Webs you say? They are going so fast that inertia alone takes them out of webrange at which point they speed up again.

Guns.. cannot track something so fast.. completely ineffective vs speed.
Missiles.. The fact that so many ships can easily outrun missiles is laughable. You have a ship weighing thousands of kilograms (or multiple tons) able to outrun ANY missle (consisting of an engine and a warhead)fired at it.
HELLO!! McFly!!!.. Missiles are designed to go very fast.

When you have say..
Vagabond which weighs in at 10 thousand metric tons and can reach speeds in excess of 6km/s or more(Could a nano vaga pilot verify this speed)
vs.
Caldari Navy Cruise missile at 1.25 tons and flys at 3750 m/s or 3.7km/s.

Missiles are designed to go faster then the ships they are being shot at.

Does noone at CCP have the IQ to understand this massive inconsistency with speeds or has all the beer severely effected your ability to compute?

To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)

/real life example

Missiles are not supposed to be 4 or more times slower then the ships they are trying to kill.

The speed of EVE missiles is a pathetic disgrace to all the weapons companies that manufacture them and all missile speeds NEED to be increased, or the speeds that ships can reach needs to be massively nerfed.


PPl whine when 1 mod gets so used by the community that its pretty much a standard fitting. If you want to even compete near the same lvl you must also use the same mod. (If you cannot beat them... join them)
Well the speed mods are a prime example of this. How many times has your fleet been completly neutered or found to be totally ineffective against nano gangs?

You all want to cry that sensor damps are overpowered and are whining to get them nerfed cause "everyone fits them now" and there is no effective counter supposedly.

Well other then nanoing it up yourself (this includes using nano intys) you are pretty much helpless to a speed tanker.
Guns cannot track them
Missiles cannot catch them
Drones cannot catch them.
Webs will slow them down till they coast out of range and speed up again.

CCP's need for speed has completely castrated any ability to effectively counter speed setups.

Discuss

---

Quote:

---

i agree with u mate nano gangs r stupid a ship should not be able to go that fast. also there boring there is no real battle when ya in or fighting nano gangs all it leads to is blobing them so they cant get any kills. i want the days back when peeps came roaming with bs's bc's and normal speed hac's were u accualy fight not blob and chase.

ps HAHAHA use a huginn or rapier i dear u to bring one out i do and get called primary everytime. there is no counter but a blob for nano gangs

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Quote:

---

i agree with u mate nano gangs r stupid a ship should not be able to go that fast. also there boring there is no real battle when ya in or fighting nano gangs all it leads to is blobing them so they cant get any kills. i want the days back when peeps came roaming with bs's bc's and normal speed hac's were u accualy fight not blob and chase.

ps HAHAHA use a huginn or rapier i dear u to bring one out i do and get called primary everytime. there is no counter but a blob for nano gangs

---

Er...the nano ship has to actually break your tank after your ship gets called primary...

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Quote:

---

HAHAHA use a huginn or rapier i dear u to bring one out i do and get called primary everytime. there is no counter but a blob for nano gangs

---

Er...the nano ship has to actually break your tank after your ship gets called primary...

---

solo nano yes hes usless if u hav a good tank and friend near by to scare him off. but a gang will drop u fast

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Quote:

---

HAHAHA use a huginn or rapier i dear u to bring one out i do and get called primary everytime. there is no counter but a blob for nano gangs

---

Er...the nano ship has to actually break your tank after your ship gets called primary...

---

solo nano yes hes usless if u hav a good tank and friend near by to scare him off. but a gang will drop u fast

---

So how would that be different if you were fighting a standard blob gang?

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

peeps r saying the a huginn or rapier is a conter to nano gangs im say sure if u wanna die first

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

u can catch a normal hac gang

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

peeps r saying the a huginn or rapier is a conter to nano gangs im say sure if u wanna die first

---

Originally by: fire 59

---

Also if i recall, there introducing a graviton beam or something that wroks like a target painter and increases the mass of the target sooooooo, it will go slower and you can catch it.

---

Originally by: Thanos Draicon

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

u can catch a normal hac gang

---

And would a gang of huginns not be able to catch a gang of nano-vagabonds?

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

When you can nano/speed mod a ship to the point its flying 12000km per second.. thats over overpowered.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Vagabond which weighs in at 10 thousand metric tons and can reach speeds in excess of 6km/s or more(Could a nano vaga pilot verify this speed)

---

Originally by: Drizit

---

Edited by: Drizit on 27/09/2007 19:25:53

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

With the advent of the MWD.. we need a skill or mod that actually increases missile speeds to todays lvls.

---

No we don't need a skill. There are enough missile skills as it is. One corpmate has over 1.5 SP in missiles and still only has most of them trained to lvl4. Missiles are very skill intensive as it is.

---

Originally by: Captain Sonata

---

Awesome Post!

There should be a hard cap of 4km/s.

Problem solved.

---

Originally by: tartrus

---

edit : gamesguy not everyone is as organised as tri mate, getting a gang with a recon in it is hard enough and then getting a log ships would be even harder

---

Originally by: Lisento Slaven

---

How long do Huginn's and Rapier's last when they're called primary by a nano gang anyways

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

LoL.. now this is damn funny.. me.. in a solo pwnmobile.. that will be the day.

Yes my ratting raven is pure pwnage as is my tissue paper stealth bomber.

---

Originally by: Polinus

---

Originally by: Lisento Slaven

---

How long do Huginn's and Rapier's last when they're called primary by a nano gang anyways

---

Abot forever if you have a good gang and fields remote repairing.

---

Originally by: Sm0kE

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

LoL.. now this is damn funny.. me.. in a solo pwnmobile.. that will be the day.

Yes my ratting raven is pure pwnage as is my tissue paper stealth bomber.

---

A RATTING raven is not supposed to be able to beat a PVP fit HAC. Try fitting a dual web, sensor damp, armor tank Raven with cruise missiles. You'll own a nano ship. If they don't come within web range they'll never do enough dmg to kill you (everything but nano-ishtar). Cruise missiles will own a nano-ish though. Unless it's snakes + faction fit in which case he SHOULD own you on pure fact that he spent so goddamn much on the ship.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

You do know that when you orbit something.. their transversal is ALOT bigger then yours is.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Sarcasm is lost on you.

So by your reasoning.. wallet size makes you a winner. If you can spend more on your ship then the next guy, you deserve the instant win.
Damn I should go buy a few scammer frigates for a few hundred million.. surely if I spend 500mill on a kestral, by your reasoning, I should be able to own anyone cause I spent so much on it.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Polinus

---

Originally by: Lisento Slaven

---

How long do Huginn's and Rapier's last when they're called primary by a nano gang anyways

---

Abot forever if you have a good gang and fields remote repairing.

---

Don't they have to slow down to be repped?

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

With a 100km+ webbing range? No.

---

Originally by: Xanstin

---

...between the OPs complete lack of knowledge about speed setups, the way turret nanoships fly, the way turrets work, the way physics works whilst whining about innacurate physics, and a general cluelessness regarding game balance, we can safely call this another day in general discussion.

---

Originally by: Sm0kE

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

LoL.. now this is damn funny.. me.. in a solo pwnmobile.. that will be the day.

Yes my ratting raven is pure pwnage as is my tissue paper stealth bomber.

---

A RATTING raven is not supposed to be able to beat a PVP fit HAC. Try fitting a dual web, sensor damp, armor tank Raven with cruise missiles. You'll own a nano ship. If they don't come within web range they'll never do enough dmg to kill you (everything but nano-ishtar). Cruise missiles will own a nano-ish though. Unless it's snakes + faction fit in which case he SHOULD own you on pure fact that he spent so goddamn much on the ship.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Originally by: Sm0kE

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Originally by: Fswd

---

Yeah sure, you should be able to counter everything in your solopwnmobile. How about countering your solopwnmobile then?

---

LoL.. now this is damn funny.. me.. in a solo pwnmobile.. that will be the day.

Yes my ratting raven is pure pwnage as is my tissue paper stealth bomber.

---

A RATTING raven is not supposed to be able to beat a PVP fit HAC. Try fitting a dual web, sensor damp, armor tank Raven with cruise missiles. You'll own a nano ship. If they don't come within web range they'll never do enough dmg to kill you (everything but nano-ishtar). Cruise missiles will own a nano-ish though. Unless it's snakes + faction fit in which case he SHOULD own you on pure fact that he spent so goddamn much on the ship.

---

The amount of money spent should never be the measuring stick of how deadly a PvP ship is. It should be player experience, either in skill points or in skill at the keyboard.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

[
If one ship is sitting still while the other orbits, the orbiting ships transversal is 0 deg/s, while the ship being orbited transversal rate depends on how quickly the orbiting ship orbits.

---

Originally by: Marcathonas

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

[
If one ship is sitting still while the other orbits, the orbiting ships transversal is 0 deg/s, while the ship being orbited transversal rate depends on how quickly the orbiting ship orbits.

---

In reality, yes.
In eve, no.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

If one ship is sitting still while the other orbits, the orbiting ships transversal is 0 deg/s, while the ship being orbited transversal rate depends on how quickly the orbiting ship orbits.

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

Originally by: Marcathonas

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

[
If one ship is sitting still while the other orbits, the orbiting ships transversal is 0 deg/s, while the ship being orbited transversal rate depends on how quickly the orbiting ship orbits.

---

In reality, yes.
In eve, no.

---

I don't understand... If this is true this is a monumental bug. Is there proof of this?

---

Originally by: Christari Zuborov

---

I don't understand... If this is true this is a monumental bug. Is there proof of this?

---

Originally by: Slaatibartfast

---

---

Originally by: Dreadpilot Roberts

---

Originally by: Slaatibartfast

---

---

zomg this is the best reply anyone could post :))

To the OP - stop whining and start playing EVE. U know that game in which u must actually use ur brain sometimes to win a fight, not go wtfpwn everyone in ur two bit t1 fitted caracal.

---

Originally by: Xanstin

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

With a 100km+ webbing range? No.

---

Wtb the multiple officer RCUs and officer web required in order to make a single web reach over 100km.

Having said that, between the OPs complete lack of knowledge about speed setups, the way turret nanoships fly, the way turrets work, the way physics works whilst whining about innacurate physics, and a general cluelessness regarding game balance, we can safely call this another day in general discussion.

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..


To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)


Discuss

---

Originally by: Tunak

---

This puts a smile on my face. Here we have clueless monkey ripping on someone for being a clueless monkey. You're a prime example of just another day in general disc.

Go read the ship description. 100km+ is with a standard run of the mill t1 webber.

---

Originally by: caladron prime

---

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

---

Well as we all know the nerfbat has a few mods in its sights..


To use the dreaded real life example..
MiG-25 Foxbat 2,115 mph. The fastest jet fighter in the world.
F-15 Eagle 1,875 mph. Fastest United States jet fighter.
VS.
Russian Topol SS-27 (the worlds fastest missile) 10,800mph
US AIM-54 Phoenix missile In excess of 3,000 mph (4,800 kmph)


Discuss

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neither of these RL missiles would be able to catch a RL space shuttle at escape velocity.

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Originally by: Tunak

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Go read the ship description. 100km+ is with a standard run of the mill t1 webber.

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Originally by: Tunak

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Go read the ship description. 100km+ is with a standard run of the mill t1 webber.

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Originally by: CCP Prism X

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Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"

Enjoy your time away from our forums.

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Originally by: Marcathonas

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Originally by: Tunak

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Go read the ship description. 100km+ is with a standard run of the mill t1 webber.

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I fly huginns

You're an idiot. Xanstin's maths is correct, it's 40km with recon 5, 34 with recon 4, 83km with mindlinked maxed out claymore and a domi web.

Unless this is a metapost!

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Originally by: Xanstin

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Originally by: Tunak

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This puts a smile on my face. Here we have clueless monkey ripping on someone for being a clueless monkey. You're a prime example of just another day in general disc.

Go read the ship description. 100km+ is with a standard run of the mill t1 webber.

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Fly the damn ship. 40km web range with max skills, t1 web.

Here, I will poast maths.

60% x 5 = 300%
10km + 300% = 40km. GG. Domination with gang links gets to around 90.

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Originally by: Christari Zuborov

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Originally by: Marcathonas

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Originally by: Christari Zuborov

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I don't understand... If this is true this is a monumental bug. Is there proof of this?

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It's not a bug, it's
a) game balance. Unless you want nanoships to be able to track
b) much, much, much less stressful on the server.

It's always been this way and there's no reason for it to change.

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I don't mean this as an insult, but you don't have a clue.

Floating point calculations are floating point calculations - we've already breached the no-no's in CPU conservation, so it makes no difference whether the transversal rate is calculated correctly or incorrectly - they are still floating point calculations. Bad joo-joo in comparison to integers.

What is screwed here is that transversal rate calculation is crippled. If what you say is true, then transversal rate is calculated from a single point in space compared to another single point in space, not the difference of facing.

That's a pretty major bug and I'll be looking at this tonight to verify.

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Originally by: Tunak

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Yup. I did my math wrong. Clueless money comment retracted.

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Originally by: caladron prime

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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Discuss

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neither of these RL missiles would be able to catch a RL space shuttle at escape velocity.

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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kk you go ahead and get right on that..

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Originally by: Christari Zuborov

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What is screwed here is that transversal rate calculation is crippled. If what you say is true, then transversal rate is calculated from a single point in space compared to another single point in space, not the difference of facing.

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Originally by: CCP Prism X

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Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"

Enjoy your time away from our forums.

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Originally by: Thanos Draicon

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Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 28/09/2007 20:09:26

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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kk you go ahead and get right on that..

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I notice you've stopped trying to address the arguments presented against your case and are just flaming people now...

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Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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Originally by: Thanos Draicon

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Edited by: Thanos Draicon on 28/09/2007 20:09:26

Originally by: Illyria Ambri

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kk you go ahead and get right on that..

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I notice you've stopped trying to address the arguments presented against your case and are just flaming people now...

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As I said before.. I stopped arguing with "because this is eve"

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Originally by: CCP Prism X

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Hey I have an idea:
"Let's not endure any more of your spam for the weekend!"

Enjoy your time away from our forums.

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Originally by: Marcathonas

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Fair enough. I assume since it'd be making the calculations based on actual transversal, it'd be pretty much a PITA for the server.

Oh, and it's fact. It's point to point. Direction of facing doesn't make jack difference, angle of travel towards the other ship does. It is NOT a bug.

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Originally by: CCP Chronotis

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Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...

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Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

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It isn't a bug, true. It is a design decision. But it is still "wrong" which is what he was getting at. Let's try this visual:

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Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

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Originally by: Marcathonas

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Fair enough. I assume since it'd be making the calculations based on actual transversal, it'd be pretty much a PITA for the server.

Oh, and it's fact. It's point to point. Direction of facing doesn't make jack difference, angle of travel towards the other ship does. It is NOT a bug.

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It isn't a bug, true. It is a design decision. But it is still "wrong" which is what he was getting at. Let's try this visual:

Take a model ship. Tie strings to both front and back that are the same length. Train its guns pointed at the joint of the strings.

Now take that ship and spin it around in a circle on the strings. Take high-speed pictures of it at various points in the arc and compare the facing of the turrets. Behold: Even with an effective tracking of .00000000000000 the guns still face their target Even try walking around doing it (simulating a webbed BS traveling at 10 m/sec), the guns still face the their target.

It is better for game balance the way CCP implemented it though.

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