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ElCoCo
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.10.06 20:15:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: LUKEC
Oh and i percieve lot of amarr pilots in ravens in few months when this "thing" loses 100% laser dmg bonus adn get 10% smartbomb activation bonus time 
Haha, exactly what I had inmind when I -almost- clicked to train amarr BS to lvl 5 
Imo, I realy like it as they have it on sisi and will train up amarr as well just cause it looks cool, same reason I trained minmatar stuff to lvl 5 to fly the mach 
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Elmicker
Black Sea Industries
Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.10.06 20:17:00 -
[32]
Originally by: LUKEC
That's like 30lvl4 missions with q20 agents that are plenty in stain.
Tell me, who lives in stain these days? 
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Elmicker
Originally by: LUKEC
That's like 30lvl4 missions with q20 agents that are plenty in stain.
Tell me, who lives in stain these days?
I have no clue, but I know where I can do anything without any problem whatsoever (q20 available)
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:08:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Xequecal on 06/10/2007 21:10:37
Originally by: LUKEC
400k lp and 100 mil and minerals of tier2 bs.
That's like 30lvl4 missions with q20 agents that are plenty in stain. (you can get 15k lp with proper skills for most of lvl4 missions) - this said, LP shop in 0.0 is pure isk sink as there's no way to ***** enough isk to spend it in lp store
Level fours in 0.0 have a huge cost to them, you WILL lose ships to gankers. I have 200k LP with Serpentis corporation, I used a Sacrilege to do the missions with a maximum paranoia fit (MWD in missions, cloak fitted) and I still hit six gate camps. I ran four of them and got blown up twice.
You will also hit storylines in 0.0 that are downright impossible, there's a 5-part one that Serps give you that has a 3000 DPS room, no joke.
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Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:29:00 -
[35]
Originally by: iiOs
and ppl complain about amarr not getting boosted, 1st khanid, then this!. lucky bastards
nightmare is not an amarr ship.
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Centurion1
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:31:00 -
[36]
Maybe they are using the nightmare as a sort of mule on SISI as the new palidin test mule, kinda like when a car company shoehorns a new drivetrain into new chassies for covert testing?
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Kayosoni
Caldari
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:32:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Kayosoni on 06/10/2007 21:32:18
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
Originally by: iiOs
and ppl complain about amarr not getting boosted, 1st khanid, then this!. lucky bastards
nightmare is not an amarr ship.
rpfag
but holy ****, guess that 450m for a nightmare a couple months ago WASN'T such a bad idea afterall.
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btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Udyr Vulpayne
Amarr
PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.10.06 21:45:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kayosoni
Originally by: Udyr Vulpayne
nightmare is not an amarr ship.
rpfag
arent you supposed to play lineage 2?
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Sanzorz
Amarr
EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:09:00 -
[39]
Aw man :(
I seriously don't hope this goes live. Why change the whole slot and weaponry layout on it, instead of just changing the skills?
I agree the bonusses are great, but Sansha always armor tank and makes to a close cousin to Amarr ships. Now you're forced to shield tank it, if you want some decent RoF on the guns in missions.
I like the current split system on it. Sure you'll have to focus on skills in both gunnery and missiles, but it's great when they start to raise. I used an Abaddon before and it was a hell in missions with Tracking Distruption. Going over to Nightmare allows to pop smaller targets fast with guns and pound on bigger targets with Siege.
No need to change this ship to look like the Marauder class :-/
Ofcourse the ship would be great for pvp, but buying and fitting a faction ship for pvp sounds expensive. I don't blame those who can field it and lose it, but I can't.
Leave the odd bonusses to Marauders and let factions ships be unique.
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:19:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Xequecal on 06/10/2007 22:20:37
Originally by: Sanzorz
Aw man :(
I seriously don't hope this goes live. Why change the whole slot and weaponry layout on it, instead of just changing the skills?
I agree the bonusses are great, but Sansha always armor tank and makes to a close cousin to Amarr ships. Now you're forced to shield tank it, if you want some decent RoF on the guns in missions.
I like the current split system on it. Sure you'll have to focus on skills in both gunnery and missiles, but it's great when they start to raise. I used an Abaddon before and it was a hell in missions with Tracking Distruption. Going over to Nightmare allows to pop smaller targets fast with guns and pound on bigger targets with Siege.
No need to change this ship to look like the Marauder class :-/
Ofcourse the ship would be great for pvp, but buying and fitting a faction ship for pvp sounds expensive. I don't blame those who can field it and lose it, but I can't.
Leave the odd bonusses to Marauders and let factions ships be unique.
The. Current. Nightmare. Only. Has. 500. CPU. You cannot fit anything remotely resembling quality on it. You can make a pretty good missioning fit by using True Sansha Cruise Launchers and 16 CPU faction hardeners, but that's IT. It's absolutely terrible in PvP, and at everything else.
Also, please explain how having to cross train shield tanking skills is somehow worse than having to cross train missile skills. I mean, honestly.
Split weapon systems are garbage and I'm glad they removed them. This new Nightmare absolutely blows away the old one. It does more damage than a magical fit of the old one with 4 MP II and 4 Siege II would, assuming you found the CPU to fit it. Oh, and torp launchers without a velocity bonus make me want to eject from the ship and help push, they're that bad.
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Sanzorz
Amarr
EVEfan.dk
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:36:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Xequecal
The. Current. Nightmare. Only. Has. 500. CPU. You cannot fit anything remotely resembling quality on it. You can make a pretty good missioning fit by using True Sansha Cruise Launchers and 16 CPU faction hardeners, but that's IT. It's absolutely terrible in PvP, and at everything else.
Also, please explain how having to cross train shield tanking skills is somehow worse than having to cross train missile skills. I mean, honestly.
Split weapon systems are garbage and I'm glad they removed them. This new Nightmare absolutely blows away the old one. It does more damage than a magical fit of the old one with 4 MP II and 4 Siege II would, assuming you found the CPU to fit it. Oh, and torp launchers without a velocity bonus make me want to eject from the ship and help push, they're that bad.
I don't have an issue with the CPU. LP store makes it easy for armor tanking due to Navy hardeners and such, which have less CPU cost than normal t2.
+5% CPU implant allows for Dread Guristas or Caldari Navy Siege Launchers.
Cross training to missiles in my case is easier, as Khanid don't have a high memory and intelligence, but rather WP and Perc. So missiles are much faster to train.
Besides I just find it awful to change a Sansha ship to shield tanking considering they always armor tanked, and the rest of the ships I use are also Amarr, which use armor tanking. Missile training also allows to use Khanid ships to a better level.
Split weapon system might annoy you, but I like it. I don't give a damn to what is better or what is not. Guns pick off small targets and torps punch down bigger targets in no time.
The damage bonusses on the future Nightmare are nice, but not really needed unless you're shooting on battleships and you don't see a goddamn horde of those in most lvl 4 missions.
They die fast enough with the Pulse/Torp combo. The current RoF bonus allows for faster target switching, as smaller targets die in one or two volleys and torps launch faster for more constant hitting.
You can punch up the rate of fire in the new Nightmare, but you'll need heatsinks or rigs. You can only install 2 rigs, as gun rigs require 200 cali points each. If you wanna use heatsinks, then you're forced to shield tank it...fine, but it just ends looking like another Caldari ship then.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.06 22:41:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Xequecal
Edited by: Xequecal on 06/10/2007 21:10:37
Originally by: LUKEC
400k lp and 100 mil and minerals of tier2 bs.
That's like 30lvl4 missions with q20 agents that are plenty in stain. (you can get 15k lp with proper skills for most of lvl4 missions) - this said, LP shop in 0.0 is pure isk sink as there's no way to ***** enough isk to spend it in lp store
Level fours in 0.0 have a huge cost to them, you WILL lose ships to gankers. I have 200k LP with Serpentis corporation, I used a Sacrilege to do the missions with a maximum paranoia fit (MWD in missions, cloak fitted) and I still hit six gate camps. I ran four of them and got blown up twice.
You will also hit storylines in 0.0 that are downright impossible, there's a 5-part one that Serps give you that has a 3000 DPS room, no joke.
I honestly never did lvl4 mission in 0.0
... with this char.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:11:00 -
[43]
3,000 dps is perfectly tankable if its only kinetic / thermal, a Drake could probably do it
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:17:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Xequecal on 06/10/2007 23:17:53
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
3,000 dps is perfectly tankable if its only kinetic / thermal, a Drake could probably do it
It's spread across all four damage types. Room has 5x Freedom Command Ship, 12x Freedom Liberty, and some large number of Minmatar Freedom Fighters. All ships are within 12km on warp in and all immediately aggro.
Feel free to look their DPS up on eveinfo, it's untankable. Remember this is 0.0 space, so no billion ISK faction crap allowed.
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:39:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 06/10/2007 23:39:13
Originally by: Xequecal
Edited by: Xequecal on 06/10/2007 23:17:53
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
3,000 dps is perfectly tankable if its only kinetic / thermal, a Drake could probably do it
It's spread across all four damage types. Room has 5x Freedom Command Ship, 12x Freedom Liberty, and some large number of Minmatar Freedom Fighters. All ships are within 12km on warp in and all immediately aggro.
Feel free to look their DPS up on eveinfo, it's untankable. Remember this is 0.0 space, so no billion ISK faction crap allowed.
oh, I thought you meant you were FIGHTING serps, my bad 
yup, Enemies Abound 5/5 used to give me that problem. I CAN solo it in my T2-only fit Drake, but it takes a VERY long time and usually at least 2 warp-outs. You have lots of Kinetic/Exp at first, then some Thermal when the Freedom things come in, then 6 Darkanas spamming EM torps at you every other second... basically untankable 
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Xequecal
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Posted - 2007.10.06 23:45:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 06/10/2007 23:39:13
Originally by: Xequecal
Edited by: Xequecal on 06/10/2007 23:17:53
Originally by: Rawr Cristina
3,000 dps is perfectly tankable if its only kinetic / thermal, a Drake could probably do it
It's spread across all four damage types. Room has 5x Freedom Command Ship, 12x Freedom Liberty, and some large number of Minmatar Freedom Fighters. All ships are within 12km on warp in and all immediately aggro.
Feel free to look their DPS up on eveinfo, it's untankable. Remember this is 0.0 space, so no billion ISK faction crap allowed.
oh, I thought you meant you were FIGHTING serps, my bad
yup, Enemies Abound 5/5 used to give me that problem. I CAN solo it in my T2-only fit Drake, but it takes a VERY long time and usually at least 2 warp-outs. You have lots of Kinetic/Exp at first, then some Thermal when the Freedom things come in, then 6 Darkanas spamming EM torps at you every other second... basically untankable
It's not Enemies Abound. It's some storyline that I forget the name of, a storyline I've NEVER gotten in empire space. The room is on mission 3 of 5, the second deadspace pocket. It's a huge trap because the first deadspace pocket is so easy, then you get dumped within 12km of all these ships that insta aggro and blast the crap out of you.
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ReePeR McAllem
The Carebear Stare
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Posted - 2007.10.07 00:36:00 -
[47]
/Win
Pretty exciting really. Since the nos nerf the Bhal doesnt seem so scary, so for amarr pilots to be able to pilot a faction bs (with a little extra caldari training) with decent bonus to amarr's choice of weaponary is much needed imho.
Please can anybody link the changes to the other sansha ships on test server. That would be GREAT!
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Brazero
Amarr
Noble House
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Posted - 2007.10.07 05:21:00 -
[48]
Nightmare on testserver sucks, and that's all there is to say about this lame change.
Why they change a superior armor tank to a shield tank with crap dmg is more than I can understand.
And I do have maxed skills for both armor and shields, that's not the problem. If this goes live on TQ, I think I might have a Nightmare for sale
Give it 6 turrets and it might work
Originally by: Rodj Blake
CCP are planning to give Amarrians some "oomph"
Unfortunately, "oomph" is the sound one makes when kicked repeatedly in the ribs.
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Alt 363
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Posted - 2007.10.07 06:08:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Brazero
Nightmare on testserver sucks, and that's all there is to say about this lame change.
Why they change a superior armor tank to a shield tank with crap dmg is more than I can understand.
And I do have maxed skills for both armor and shields, that's not the problem. If this goes live on TQ, I think I might have a Nightmare for sale
Give it 6 turrets and it might work
Are you ******* ********? It has the damage of an Abaddon. The cap use of an Apoc. A stronger tank than a Maelstrom, or an armor tank with an epic amount of dampening power. And its basically impossible to run out of CPU/power.
Sansha ships needed a boost, but this is pretty overpowered. None of the other faction ships come close to being this good. Currently they're just 1 extra slot with a bunch more hitpoints and maybe a cool bonus on the side. Not a ship far and away the best battleship in game...
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The ArchWarder
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.07 06:54:00 -
[50]
After testing the new nightmare on Sisi agaisnt most of the BS's I would have to say that the damage it deals is not actualy that scary.
This is with Mega Pulse II with conflag in perfect conditions, most Dual Rep injected tanks are easily able to take the damage and its only after Boosters Run out that the tank fails.
The Nightmare can still armour tank but with about the same ability as a geddon. I was using Centus X-Type LAR X1, Cormack's Adaptive nano plating X1 ( 30% ), and 2X TS EAN.
My tank cannot hold against a Blasterthron or Tempest due to the single fact that im missing an extra low slot and power for a second booster.
Faction Battleships are bought for their solo capabilities,( Vindicator, Mach ) With the Bhall lacking in the solo department atm the nightmare with the current stats is an ammarians last hope of aquiring such a ship.
To shield tank the nightmare means you say goodbye to any solo activities due to the fact you can no longer fit all 4 of the essential solo PVP mods ( MWD/AB, Web, Scram, Injector ) leaving you 3 mods to 'Shield tank'
Moving a Mid slot to a low slot and adding 3000Pg so it can dual rep with a decent resisted tank would fill the faction void that is present in amarr.
It would also mean less work for CCP... They woudl otherwise have to change all the sansha faction mods to Shield based items. and i suppose there will no longer be an implant that increaces armour anymore...
Do everyone a favour and keep sansha armour tankers.
Bonuses on the ship combined with lack of turrets is a (+) though.
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iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:05:00 -
[51]
Originally by: The ArchWarder
After testing the new nightmare on Sisi agaisnt most of the BS's I would have to say that the damage it deals is not actualy that scary.
This is with Mega Pulse II with conflag in perfect conditions, most Dual Rep injected tanks are easily able to take the damage and its only after Boosters Run out that the tank fails.
The Nightmare can still armour tank but with about the same ability as a geddon. I was using Centus X-Type LAR X1, Cormack's Adaptive nano plating X1 ( 30% ), and 2X TS EAN.
My tank cannot hold against a Blasterthron or Tempest due to the single fact that im missing an extra low slot and power for a second booster.
Faction Battleships are bought for their solo capabilities,( Vindicator, Mach ) With the Bhall lacking in the solo department atm the nightmare with the current stats is an ammarians last hope of aquiring such a ship.
To shield tank the nightmare means you say goodbye to any solo activities due to the fact you can no longer fit all 4 of the essential solo PVP mods ( MWD/AB, Web, Scram, Injector ) leaving you 3 mods to 'Shield tank'
Moving a Mid slot to a low slot and adding 3000Pg so it can dual rep with a decent resisted tank would fill the faction void that is present in amarr.
It would also mean less work for CCP... They woudl otherwise have to change all the sansha faction mods to Shield based items. and i suppose there will no longer be an implant that increaces armour anymore...
Do everyone a favour and keep sansha armour tankers.
Bonuses on the ship combined with lack of turrets is a (+) though.
if you are armor tanking it....how can your enemy even lock you?
or you stack meds with cap recharges?
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BB
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The ArchWarder
Dragons Of Redemption
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:12:00 -
[52]
2X damps and a tracking disrputor does help but you get locked under 20 km easy, ECM is to ineffective.
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twit brent
Dark Centuri Inc.
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:16:00 -
[53]
Anything happening with blood raider BS? they need this more than sansha.
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iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:20:00 -
[54]
Originally by: The ArchWarder
2X damps and a tracking disrputor does help but you get locked under 20 km easy, ECM is to ineffective.
7 meds= mwd, web, dist, injector and 3 damps, 3 damps and you can lock down any bs, plus you can fit NOs/neut also
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BB
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:42:00 -
[55]
People still fly bs solo? You can't break half decent tank before it unaggro and dock/jump.
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:45:00 -
[56]
Originally by: twit brent
Anything happening with blood raider BS? they need this more than sansha.
Yeh I want to know too. 5guns, 100% damage bonus flat, 25% armor resists and 50% web range sounds like decent and balanced idea... (while inheriting quite good cap from old bhaalgorn)
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iiOs
Blood Corsair's
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: LUKEC
People still fly bs solo? You can't break half decent tank before it unaggro and dock/jump.
yea,, but you can still pop nice and fat t2 ships:)
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BB
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Pharos Dei
Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2007.10.07 07:56:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Pharos Dei on 07/10/2007 07:57:01
eventhough i welcome this change im somewhat suprised to say atleast..
does this now mean that slave implants will be changed too... since not changing them would make them somehwat really messed up rp wise..
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Hango ([email protected]) |
Laci
Lethal Agentrunner Concord Incinerator
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Posted - 2007.10.07 08:11:00 -
[59]
Hi
When this picture "real" and they really make this changes on nm i will cry, its a well balanced ship atm, 4 lasers and 4 cruise makes u ideal in pve, and u can make "any" missions bcos u can VEEARY your damage type (with cruises) when they nerf to a laserboat u (we) lost that, what was good in this ship. i traned approx a 5m sp directly for this ship use...
Laci: The (ex?)Nightmare "specialist"
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LUKEC
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.07 08:25:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Laci
Hi
When this picture "real" and they really make this changes on nm i will cry, its a well balanced ship atm, 4 lasers and 4 cruise makes u ideal in pve, and u can make "any" missions bcos u can VEEARY your damage type (with cruises) when they nerf to a laserboat u (we) lost that, what was good in this ship. i traned approx a 5m sp directly for this ship use...
Laci: The (ex?)Nightmare "specialist"
Hey what about my suckgorn and few talisman clones ?
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