Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Shaala
Caldari Singularity Services
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 20:56:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 25/10/2007 20:41:36 1.And because in the ship hull world, at least until now, T2 was always better as faction if you had maxskills.
2.Right now, faction BSs are almost as good for missions (or in the case of the CNR, slightly better) compared to the upcoming T2s in the hands of an experienced mission-running pilot.
3.When you ALREADY are "unkillable" in missions, what's there left to do but decrease the missionrunning time ? The Golem in particular isn't a step forward for such mission runners, it's a step back in this particular aspect.
1. Until now, yes. Like you say, that fact might change any time. 2. So you state that faction BS are inferior to the upcoming t2 BS, but only "almost as good" as t2BS when pilot is experienced? 3. In that one particular aspect that is true, I totaly agree with you. Perhaps CCP should really redirect their attention to people, who do not want to simply do the repeatative missions faster, but collect loot and try different kinds of approach to missions.
|
Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 21:00:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 25/10/2007 20:41:36
Originally by: Sharupak It looks to me by your own post that the will be much superior to their T-1 counterparts. I didnt get your arguement as to why they should equal or exceed the mission running capabilities of Faction ships...Howcome they should even be compared? It seems apples and oranges to me.
Because on one hand, they were touted as missionpwnmobiles-but-not-so-bad-at-PvP-either ever since "a few days ago" when the bonuses were published, while on the other hand it's DAMAGE OUTPUT AT RANGE what a missionrunner makes (while fielding a merely "adequate" tank, because damage=tank, at least to some degree, in PvE) when it's obvious most of the Marauders aren't much better at it compared to just the T1 variants, let alone the faction variants. And because in the ship hull world, at least until now, T2 was always better as faction if you had maxskills.
Right now, faction BSs are almost as good for missions (or in the case of the CNR, slightly better) compared to the upcoming T2s in the hands of an experienced mission-running pilot. When you ALREADY are "unkillable" in missions, what's there left to do but decrease the missionrunning time ? The Golem in particular isn't a step forward for such mission runners, it's a step back in this particular aspect.
I see what you are saying, but soley on the basis of experienced pilots running missions in faction ships. For me 9mil sp, the Vargur would basically get me into viably soloing lvl4s. I can do some on my own in a typhoon but need help on most. Perhaps I shouldnt be able to solo lvl4s but for quasi noobs like me at 30k lp and whatnot these are going to be fantastic ships. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
Klytior Am'jarhs
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 21:17:00 -
[123]
The real problem with marauders is that they have high tracking.. high tracking is nice.. but bigger guns als always better .. as show in the next clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIIlF3zrf0k
|
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 21:22:00 -
[124]
I've got pilots in my corp that already solo L4s succesfully in a Drake with much, MUCH less than 9 mil SP total. Except the "Enemies Abound" set, of course. That's too much incoming damage if you can't kill fast enough. And even that is doable by a duo of "the better" of them, and is trivial in group of three that have less than 9 mil SP between all of them. _
1|2|3 |
Sharupak
Minmatar Knights Of the Black Sun Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 21:27:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Sharupak on 25/10/2007 21:27:39
Originally by: Akita T I've got pilots in my corp that already solo L4s succesfully in a Drake with much, MUCH less than 9 mil SP total. Except the "Enemies Abound" set, of course. That's too much incoming damage if you can't kill fast enough. And even that is doable by a duo of "the better" of them, and is trivial in group of three that have less than 9 mil SP between all of them.
Yeah, I cant do that one. and the...mordus headhunter one.
Then again, I havent run a lvl4 mission since about 2mill sp ago. _______________________________________________ RuntimeError: ChainEvent is blocking by design, but you're block trapped. You have'll have to find some alternative means to do Your Thing, dude. |
MysteriousJade
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:15:00 -
[126]
fact: abaddon >>>(way more)>> paladin at lvl 4+
the prob wasnt tanking, the prob IS the dmg.
sansha? no deal / blood? no deal / merc? no deal / drone? no deal / guri? ecm but tank? no deal / angel? .. absurd resits.. silly dmg but no deal / enemy 1-4 no deal - 5 dont tested cause timd respawn and SEE ANGEL
paladin? noone who reallly "use" use amarrships would bye this crap bull**** of refind and invented materials...
|
Daelin Blackleaf
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:52:00 -
[127]
Since missiles and drones are the primary tools for PvE for many reasons, and since the Golem is the only ship in the supposed "mission runner" class to use a mission runner weapons system this simply pushes Caldari ships further to the top.
Or it would if the ship is fixed to have bonuses that make it useful in PvE rather than over-powered (imo) in PvP.
I've already trained Caldari BS V for my CNR, but I was really, really hoping to see a selection of ships that equaled the the CNR's mission running ability.
More sensible would have been Gallente and Amarr drone boats with Minmatar and Caldari missile boats.
Instead we have one ship that is possibly marginally better than it's forebears at mission running, and three that will remain relatively useless to those of us who enjoy the advantage of damage selection, non-tracking/range influenced weapons, and generally being able to run missions efficiently and with minimal effort (because NPCing with these systems is like mining rocks that shoot back).
I'm guessing for the most part the Gallente will stick with their Dominix and everyone else will stick with their CNR.
|
Julius Romanus
Amarr Bloodmoney Incorporated
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 22:58:00 -
[128]
I'm not making any comments towards the ships or the class, but aren't they changing missions also in rev3? This may change the state of mission runner top tiers. Maybe not, since it comes down to range/dammage type selection for the most part. But maybe. -- All these graphs show is how bad the apocalypse is with different kinds of weapons. -Dr Jigglez |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.25 23:00:00 -
[129]
Unless suddendly most missions ALLOW MWDs, no other changes they could possibly make will influence that in favor of the Marauders... in case they decide to spam us full of frigates in L4s, guess what, it's Drake/NH then. _
1|2|3 |
FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 02:43:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Akita T Unless suddendly most missions ALLOW MWDs, no other changes they could possibly make will influence that in favor of the Marauders... in case they decide to spam us full of frigates in L4s, guess what, it's Drake/NH then.
The trend in recent mission changes has been to have fewer ships, with higher bounties - as in Recon Part 1. ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
|
Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 05:16:00 -
[131]
Originally by: FT Diomedes
Originally by: Akita T Unless suddendly most missions ALLOW MWDs, no other changes they could possibly make will influence that in favor of the Marauders... in case they decide to spam us full of frigates in L4s, guess what, it's Drake/NH then.
The trend in recent mission changes has been to have fewer ships, with higher bounties - as in Recon Part 1.
Well one thing they can do to make marauders more attractive is smaller waves with longer pauses between then, but it's rather lame. Almost as lame as 80 km between gates and nothing to kill while you wade last 50 km. Another possibility would be if they would change NPC's in missions so that they will like to get close and personal, but it would kinda shaft turret battleships without tracking or web bonuses for missions.
I personally just hate wave based missions without triggers. It's just so damn boring twiddle my thumbs for something like 3 .. 4 minutes waiting the next wave to spawn. Like Tech secrets on lev 3 and to smaller extent new recon 1 of 3 on lev 4 (if I want to kill them all).
Those are rather unlikely tho as under the need for speed iniative it was announced that CCP is trying to replace small ship swarm (like massive attack) with fewer bigger guys.
|
Fehnrail
Caldari Colossus Technologies
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 05:32:00 -
[132]
Edited by: Fehnrail on 26/10/2007 05:33:54
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss
If I've read you right - I envisage the twin Kronos gang (one probing?) becomming the pvp/merc elite standard for massacring solo mission running faction BS! Do missions in groups!!!
Until, y'know, they run into a single Kitsune accompanying any gank-fitted BS that blows them out of the sky.
...I am a part of all that I have met, Yet all experience is an arch wherethro' Shines that untravell'd world, whose margin fades For ever and for ever as I move... |
Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 06:15:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 26/10/2007 06:24:02
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Akita T LAR+plate or 2xLAR, 3 resist mods = 5 slots. So yeah, you usually fit just 2 damage mods, but 3 on the faction.
Uh.. why on earth would you fit a plate on a PvE setup? That is high stupidity. And you can tank most missions with a single LAR.
Standard fit for LAR mission tanks I used are LAR, 3-4 hards, 0-1 CPRs. This leaves room for 2 damage mods. Navy ships allow a 3rd. Only exception are missions against EM-heavy enemies, which you can tank with just two hards and thus always fit 3 HS. One reason why the Navy Poc really has nothing on the Abaddon. As for the Marauders, the Kronos should work nicely against Serps, Angels, Mercs and their derivates, and maybe even against Guristas. It should become one of the top dogs for missions in its current state. The others are disappointing though, mostly because they all have one issue that makes them impractical for missioning. (Web bonus on Pally and Exp velo on Golly are worthless for PvE, and the Vargurs PG forces it to use ACs which even with Falloff bonus are still impractical for PvE against most NPCs.)
This could be easily fixed by changing those bonuses to something useful (mainly damage) and boosting the Vargur PG to make it use arties, but whether that will happen...
Guess CCP just loves Gallente too much.
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
El'essar Viocragh
Minmatar FSK23
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 10:12:00 -
[134]
Can someone explain to me why everyone translates "Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles. This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship" as "has to be the best lvl4 missionship ever"?
Looking at them, I see versatile ships that are excellent for belt ratting, longer exploration expeditions, encounter sites while still being pvp'ish enough to be able to fend off unwelcome visitors or survive the journey to the next expedition bookmark.
They are not the be-all-end-all of hisec lvl4 running. But where did I miss them being advertised as that? Or "pve in eve" being defined as "caldari navy lvl 4 in 1.0 space"? -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim |
Ath Amon
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 10:53:00 -
[135]
just to point out that minnie marauder is not a good mission runner too... it can be a bit better than a pest but... the minmatar mission runner is the phoon not the pest...
the marauder is basically a maelstrom with higher price and less tankage so a minnie mission runner will be still go for the phoon (in most situations) or eventually (very eventually) arty maelstrom (to not speak about faction)
also even with just 4 guns the ammo usage of ACs is extremely high...
in general i really dislike these ships, they are average mission runners and seem mostly useless in other situations, the only ones that can maybe be usefull elsewhere are amarr (reduced energy usage) and caldari (that can use torps better than a CNR) but the price make them not really worth
Originally by: Diana Merris
Unfortunately, rather than address the slot layout/tanking issues for Minmatar the Devs have simple declared that it makes us "versitile".
|
Mrrzah
Amarr Ordo Drakonis
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 11:27:00 -
[136]
Surprise, surprise, the Amarr ship looks like total rubish! Contrary to the Kronos it doesn't actually benefit CAP-wise from only having 4 turrets, damage isn't anything to write home about... and web-bonus?! double-you-tee-eff?! Anything that comes within 10k range is a frig and with the amount of SP those ships require to fly you better got T2 drones to take care of those... jesus christ. I think I'll stick to the Abaddon for missions, tyvm.
The Kronos and especially the Vargur actually look quite good at first glance (if they can fit 4 long range turrets that is, which I'm not sure about).
The Golem on the other hand... a missile boat that's not even good for PvE who'd have thought it possible.
|
Alyxa Mahan
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:09:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Qui Shon In reference to Black Ops, it also said this is not the Tech 2 battleship you are looking for.
Oh come on! Thats a play with words, that really that hard to grasp? "These are not the droids you are looking for." Get it now? Its a Tech 2 battleship you don't see, cause its cloaked!
|
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:19:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Akita T But they were designed with "missionrunning" in mind.
No they weren't. They were designed for 0.0 ratting, and they're going to be awesome at it.
Do you use a framing hammer to break up cinder blocks and then complain to Sears when the design is not ideal for breaking cinder blocks? Especially when you've got all these sledgehammers sitting right in the store... --
Support fixing the EVE UI
|
d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 13:53:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Akita T
The Golem in particular isn't a step forward for such mission runners, it's a step back in this particular aspect.
And i'd like to add that probably exactely those mission runners are those who gonna be able to fly and afford the marauders..
|
Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:37:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Shevar on 26/10/2007 14:38:13
Originally by: d026
Originally by: Qui Shon
Originally by: d026
In another dev blog the marauders were appraised as "the-missionrunners-wet-dream". so.. why not expect a mission ship?:)
Quote? Link? I skimmed the headlines back to June, didn't see the one you refer to? Which one was it?
My quotes are from the September 10th DevBlog by Oveur.
i couldnt find it either -.- so probably the changed marauders purpose in the last 2 dev blogs.. you could be right..
The following interview is where the word mission ship came up; http://eve.warcry.com/news/view/76434
Quote:
Noah Ward: The other type of Tech 2 ship we haven't come up with a name yet, but it's going to be like a mission runner battleship. A huge number of our player base are not these big PvPers, they are mission runners for their empire, and you know doing their thing. While the ships will be really good at PvP, they will have things like bigger cargo bays for loot. They will have better locking times, better tracking, a lot of utility slots. Things that if you are a mission runner, what would be your ideal battle ship.
And this weblog explained the interview a bit;
http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=501
Quote: The home-away-from-home-tech-2-battleship
The long-range and high-versatility Battleship nicknamed the "Violators". Their versatility will work for many play styles but we also wanted something which would work for PvE play styles. This doesn't mean they will work well for only mission runners, so there is no need to brand them with the misnomer of the "mission ship".
Edit note: Long-range is not a reference to weapons range but the ships ability to go deep into enemy territory and stay there for extended periods. It is not a HAC either :)
Anyways what CCP failed to realize in my opinion is that NPC'ers only care about DeeePeeeSsssz. Basicly if a ship can't deal more DPS and kill stuff faster it isn't more efficient.
---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
|
Liisa
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 14:54:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Shevar
Anyways what CCP failed to realize in my opinion is that NPC'ers only care about DeeePeeeSsssz. Basicly if a ship can't deal more DPS and kill stuff faster it isn't more efficient.
This isn't quite true. What we do not want is to have to trade away something we really need for something that is simply nice to have.
Now for me as a minmatar specced pilot who uses a maelstrom with a tech 2 fitting, this means that I do not want to give up my artilleries for the ability to salvage. I don't want to have to chase after battleships in order to get them into range just for the ability to salvage at the same time.
What the minmatar got in the Vargur is a maelstrom with a macharials tracking bonus, a falloff bonus and only enough powergrid to fit autocannons. As the falloff bonus is tied to the marauder skill, this ship only starts to become useful when you have that skill at level 4 and you probably need to have it at level 5 if you really want to spend less time in the missions than you do now. On top of this we are forced to take our ship close to the enemy and so have to tank more damage than we have to now. Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches |
Soltueur
Gallente Joint Strike Squad
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 15:05:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Liisa
Originally by: Soltueur Edited by: Soltueur on 25/10/2007 18:59:55 What I was wondering, will the kronos and paladin keep the 2% bonus to the webber strenght???? Cause I mean it kinda sucks...a whoopty 10% more webber strenght for bs lvl 5
Either think before posting or do some basic math.
Lets take a basic tech 2 webifier. Velocity bonus of -90%. Now we increase this by 10%. We are now at -99% velocity bonus. Lets try an example because I think the dimwitted might not have understood just yet.
I'm sorry can you try explaining it again? Didnt que With bonus: 100m/s with one t2 web = 1m/s without bonus: 100m/s with two t2 web = 1m/s
I hope this has gotten the point across. At level 5 it doubles the effectiveness of a a standard tech 2 web.
So 1 web gets the strenght of 2 webs, great. Then what? You dont use webs because you are mostlikly gonne use longranged guns. But Solteuer!!! Why dont you use shortranged guns then?? Well these ships were designed to compleet missions faster...when you have to travel 5min to get to every freaking rat out there it wont help now will it???
Web might be nice if the odd frigate gets close to you but then you can just let you drones have a go at it.
So now you know why I was wondering about the web strenght bonus. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected]) |
Liisa
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 15:09:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Soltueur
So 1 web gets the strenght of 2 webs, great. Then what? You dont use webs because you are mostlikly gonne use longranged guns. But Solteuer!!! Why dont you use shortranged guns then?? Well these ships were designed to compleet missions faster...when you have to travel 5min to get to every freaking rat out there it wont help now will it???
Web might be nice if the odd frigate gets close to you but then you can just let you drones have a go at it.
So now you know why I was wondering about the web strenght bonus.
Well, I am wondering about the Vargur only being able to use autocannons, so....
Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches |
Vitrael
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 15:10:00 -
[144]
The Marauders have no problems. If you want a mission solopwnmobile you just got it and its time to STOP WHINING.
___________ I learned to accept ship changes months ago. Suddenly I enjoy Eve. You should try it some time. |
Liisa
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 15:14:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Vitrael The Marauders have no problems. If you want a mission solopwnmobile you just got it and its time to STOP WHINING.
Which of the Marauders are you talking about? Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 21:08:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Xaen
Originally by: Akita T But they were designed with "missionrunning" in mind.
No they weren't. They were designed for 0.0 ratting, and they're going to be awesome at it.
Like several posters already explained so far, no they weren't.
A vast majority of actual players ARE highsec missionrunners, as much as you hate it or not. And even 0.0 hardcore PvPers happend to have a highsec missionrunning alt. Highsec missionrunning is the safest, fastest, surest way to MAKE ISK, and that's why a lot of people do it. These ships were supposed to be MAINLY missionrunner ships AND also be useful for most other PvE (including ratting) and PvP too (but only to a degree, hence the ECM vulnerability).
The only reason to have an ECM vulnerability would be if the DPS output was TOO HIGH, so that current ships would have an "exit strategy" in case they get caught. But, as their DPS (all except Kronos) is nothing to write home about, that's a redundant an annoying drawback. _
1|2|3 |
Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 21:25:00 -
[147]
They do seem more designed to be uber-ratters rather than mission ships, intentionally or no. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Liisa
Absolutely No Retreat
|
Posted - 2007.10.26 22:43:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske They do seem more designed to be uber-ratters rather than mission ships, intentionally or no.
For some, certainly, others are still viable in missions.
Problem is that the devs don't post their design philosophy behind the ships. If they flat out said what their vision for the ships were we'd be able to offer constructive criticism instead of each people venting their spleen because the ship(s) don't conform to their idea of what a pve/mission ship should be. Signature Your signature exceeds the 24000 byte limit allowed on the forums. -Darth Patches |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 01:53:00 -
[149]
Oh, and the yucky part about the new Marauders ? They don't get the CorrectRacialBonuses™.
Namely, yes, Minmatar SHOULD get +7.5% shield boost, Gallente should get +7.5% armor repair amount... but Amarr one should get -5% armor resists, and Caldari should get -5% shield resists. _
1|2|3 |
Red Harvest
|
Posted - 2007.10.27 02:03:00 -
[150]
I would be happy if the Paladin (amarr marauder) would get the armor rep bonus + a 5% resistance bonus instead of the web bonus. At least this would make the amarr one the master of tanking if nothing else.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |