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Kokob	Posted - 2007.10.29 03:36:00 - [1] Ok having become rather interested in the new T2 jump frieghters I thought I'd put the information from the various threads into one nice spot. ok first what do we know about them? Skills wise, the following currently what it comes down to: Originally by: Serajaya What I saw on SiSi: Primary Skill Required Racial Freighter Level V\|- some more prerequisites Secondary Skill Required Jump Freighter Level I\|- Industry Level V\|+ Advanced Spaceship command Level III_\|- Speceship Command Level V What will it take to build these behemoths: http://www.torm.it/rheabpo.jpg -Thanx to Imperator Jora'h for the link. What kind of stats do they have? after checking SISI myself, I have found the following: Cargo space: Currently shows as 30% of the t1 freighters we currently have on TQ. Shields, Armor, Hull have been increased by several thousand each though resists appeared to be the same. Jump range: 5 ly (same base range as a dreadnaught) Should be noted that as of this writing there were no bonuses showing on the bpo's. * How do you know they are gonna be Tech 2 and not tier 2? As of this writing, Show info on the tech 1 freighters shows these ships as the tech 2 varient of said ship. Now as Imperator Jora'h pointed out, that bp screenie was at me 0. Factor in negative ME lvls and one could probably expect about 3 to 4.5 bil in build costs never mind the invention costs. Now the question is will anyone fly it? I think they will. Primarily as currently on the server, carriers have been nerfed and you can no longer put a loaded hauler inside the carriers ship maintenance bay. This seriously makes the carrier an ineffective hauler and gives the role to the jump freighter. Personally I'm excited for these ships. I'll try to keep the info on this updated, if anyone see's other information as things changes, post here and I"ll amend the main post to reflect their current status.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.10.29 06:14:00 - [2] Fixed the link for the lazy. http://www.torm.it/rheabpo.jpg Yours currently points towards a null page. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.29 07:31:00 - [3] Edited by: Qual on 29/10/2007 07:32:08 Originally by: Kokob -Thanx to Imperator Jora'h for the link. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Benn Helmsman Caldari Dark Prophecy Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.29 12:58:00 - [4] with the changes on the Rorqual on SiSi it can get like 120k m¦ cargo. Maybe it will be the new jump freighter.
Jita TradeAlt	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:08:00 - [5] If those build reqs and specs are final then people will just cargo rig some revelations and use them for logistics. No one will get a 5-7bn isk freighter with that little cargo space, poor range and high isotope cost. Big alliances will just use titans or static jump bridges if they have to instead and small alliances or corporations will just be outright screwed. Keeps the 0.0 population down I guess, which seems to be CCPs objective these days.

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:09:00 - [6] Another indication that the ship is T2 is the building reqs use T2 components and the original freighter itself - at least I am unaware of any T1/TierX version having build specs like that. As for Rorqual iirc I maxed out mine around 137k-ish with rigs and expanders, if the 40k cargo change is to stay. Secure 3rd party service .

Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:13:00 - [7] Originally by: Chribba Another indication that the ship is T2 is the building reqs use T2 components and the original freighter itself - at least I am unaware of any T1/TierX version having build specs like that. As for Rorqual iirc I maxed out mine around 137k-ish with rigs and expanders, if the 40k cargo change is to stay. Another "indication" would be that it is listed under "Tech 2" on the variations tab... "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2007.10.29 13:31:00 - [8] Originally by: Qual Originally by: Chribba Another indication that the ship is T2 is the building reqs use T2 components and the original freighter itself - at least I am unaware of any T1/TierX version having build specs like that. As for Rorqual iirc I maxed out mine around 137k-ish with rigs and expanders, if the 40k cargo change is to stay. Another "indication" would be that it is listed under "Tech 2" on the variations tab... Yeah but that has already been mentioned in the thread, this was just to add additionally to the "is T2" talks. Variations could be lack of other groups to put it in as well. But indeed most likely correct Secure 3rd party service .

Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.29 15:50:00 - [9] WTB max run Obelisk BPC I really hope they tweak the copy times for capital BPCs or invention will be really painful Jita fix: The distributed market hub
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:04:00 - [10] Given the ratio between component costs (at low MEs) and the assumed invention cost, the MOST cost-effective solution would be to use 1-run T1 BPCs with +2 runs decryptors (no extra ME penality, huge PE bonus : you get -4 ME, +1 PE, 2-runs T2 BPC). _ 1\|2\|3
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Hooligans Of War Insurgency	Posted - 2007.10.29 16:42:00 - [11] Has anyone seen how many datacores that are needed for this? Akita T, too bad it still will be 50% material wastage though even in the best case scenario. At least for once the cost of the decryptor will be the smallest problem... Jita fix: The distributed market hub
Salia Deluri Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.10.29 17:51:00 - [12] Did you say that on sissi you cannot put a ship with anything in the ship maint bay? Or were you refering to the container nerf? -Deluri Code of Deluri Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today.
Lord DarkStar Gallente Mobile Alcohol Processing Units United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.29 18:15:00 - [13] from what ive heard you cannot put a loaded ship into a carriers maint bay,aka cannot put haulers into it to do normal 0.0 transport ... We of the Unicorn clan are the best horsemen in the land,our horses are our lives and brothers,we fight as one,we live as one,we die as one.
Thorbjorn Brundtland PezCo - Ice Services Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:08:00 - [14] Originally by: Lord DarkStar from what ive heard you cannot put a loaded ship into a carriers maint bay,aka cannot put haulers into it to do normal 0.0 transport ... Does this also count for Rorquals Ship Maintenance Bays?
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.29 20:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Thorbjorn Brundtland Originally by: Lord DarkStar from what ive heard you cannot put a loaded ship into a carriers maint bay,aka cannot put haulers into it to do normal 0.0 transport ... Does this also count for Rorquals Ship Maintenance Bays? Yes. On SiSi. On TQ you still can currently, but if those changes go live then ....
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.29 22:50:00 - [16] And back on topic: There is now an invention tab on freighters on sisi. 64x mech cores + 64 race starship cores. Welcome to the world of T2 capital ships. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Verite Rendition Caldari AUS Corporation CORE.	Posted - 2007.10.29 23:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Qual And back on topic: There is now an invention tab on freighters on sisi. 64x mech cores + 64 race starship cores. Welcome to the world of T2 capital ships. A good ME agent can push out what, 2 cores a day? So someone completely loaded up on ME agents will be able to supply enough cores for less than 5 invention attempts a month, and this is not including all the other uses for ME cores. The price on those things is going to be insane. ---- AUS Corp Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.30 05:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Verite Rendition Originally by: Qual And back on topic: There is now an invention tab on freighters on sisi. 64x mech cores + 64 race starship cores. Welcome to the world of T2 capital ships. A good ME agent can push out what, 2 cores a day? So someone completely loaded up on ME agents will be able to supply enough cores for less than 5 invention attempts a month, and this is not including all the other uses for ME cores. The price on those things is going to be insane. It takes anyway approx month to copy the print for single attempt (or approx 3 per 2 months if you are using POS) so for that ship cores and other materials are not the bottleneck. BPC's are.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.10.30 05:40:00 - [19] to use a term stolen from another thread.. it certainly seems we are looking at a Monet of failure. Every facet carefully balanced to glitter with madness, while in fact being good for nothing. Or Devs are trying to push home the Crystal Ball I idea and this all a hoax.. yeah.. a hoax.. tech2 capitals.. unthinkable.
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.10.30 07:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Tek'a Rain to use a term stolen from another thread.. it certainly seems we are looking at a Monet of failure. Every facet carefully balanced to glitter with madness, while in fact being good for nothing. Or Devs are trying to push home the Crystal Ball I idea and this all a hoax.. yeah.. a hoax.. tech2 capitals.. unthinkable. I still prefer my own quote that they're "made of fail." At least they've bumped up the jump range to 5LY. Still, a Rhea will only have 282K M3 at best. 110 Jump engines? That's 11 carriers worth...and the BP was listing ME 0. These things will be damn near mothership levels of material to build, esp once you factor in the negative ME. All I can say is if you're a 0.0 alliance, get your POS jump bridges to empire set up now. Otherwise you're gonna be left high and dry, come the mega-nerf. Right now, the rorqual, of all things, is the best hope for 0.0 resupply. Costing a fraction of a jump freighter, its low skills and ability to carry fully half the cargo of a jump freighter will make it the Dreamliner to the jump freighter's A380. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.30 11:30:00 - [21] Hey, on freighters, 1-run copy IS maxruns, right ? So, that means you already get your +1 run bonus on T2 BPCs when you use decryptors, no matter what. A 1-run copy takes 64000 minutes in a NPC station, or 48000 minutes in a POS lab... that's 33 1/3 days. So, you can value your 1-run blueprint copy at around 150 mil ISK or so, the very least. An invention run (minus the copy) will cost you at least 150 mil in datacores, plus the decryptor. If you go with the "material effective" decryptor, you get 3 runs at -4 ME, +1 PE (around 2 weeks manufacture time) about 1/5 of the tries... so the "cost" per run of invention is AT LEAST 500 mil per run. Add to that the freighter itself, plus the materials at 50% waste (ME -4, remember?) and you get your T2 freighter price. _ 1\|2\|3
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.30 12:29:00 - [22] Well if 1-run is max run, then it really depends on how high max run is on the T2 BP. If its 10 then yes, you sould get your one free copy for max run T1 bpc, if its lower you get the "Large Mobile Warp Disrupter"-effect, that is, no bonus run. I cant get on Sisi right now to check the info myself... "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:01:00 - [23] All T2 ships are 10 limit, I don't see why freighters would have to be an exception... _ 1\|2\|3
Lord DarkStar Gallente Mobile Alcohol Processing Units United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.30 15:17:00 - [24] I have not bin playing eve for very long,getting close to 2 years,so i havent seen all the patches and the effects of said patches,but out of everything ive bin through in eve for the last year and a half i have to say rev 3 will shake things up more then anything else i think, We of the Unicorn clan are the best horsemen in the land,our horses are our lives and brothers,we fight as one,we live as one,we die as one.
Tunak	Posted - 2007.10.30 16:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Akita T A 1-run copy takes 64000 minutes in a NPC station, or 48000 minutes in a POS lab... that's 33 1/3 days. Dude you're using the wrong lab. It's only 41600 minutes. Which is just shy of 29 days.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.30 17:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Lord DarkStar I have not bin playing eve for very long,getting close to 2 years,so i havent seen all the patches and the effects of said patches,but out of everything ive bin through in eve for the last year and a half i have to say rev 3 will shake things up more then anything else i think, Nah, its not that bad really. Red Moon Rising was the big one: Production queues (the biggest game mechanic change for industrialists ever), Super Capital ships and Carriers, Jump Clones, Interdictors, Command Ships, many unused modules revised to be useable, and last but not least many T1 ships revised for roles. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Mechanikus Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:09:00 - [27] Edited by: Mechanikus on 30/10/2007 20:09:26 I can't really see anyone wanting to use this thing. In the grand scheme of things the time it will take to get it, plus a lot of money to get a BPC, it will take the cost of a freighter + T2 components costs to build the thing, it only has a 5 ly range, and it doesn't hold as much as a freighter. Pathetic really, I don't even know why the devs would waste their time on such a contraption. Give it the same space as a freighter and people would use them, but otherwise their are other ways to travel to move stuff around.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Mechanikus Give it the same space as a freighter and people would use them, but otherwise their are other ways to travel to move stuff around. Yes, for example I can as easily jump 4 battleships out in my carrier... Oh, wait, Mothership.. Doh, no, titan I mean, which only cost 10 times as much... It has its uses, ok? "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Quutar Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.10.30 20:51:00 - [29] I did some calculations on the fuel costs assuming jump freighter 4 and jump fuel conservation 0 (this is just a comparison) the following is how many m3 worth of material each can ship per isotope per light year Minmatar - 125 m3 Amarr - 118.8 m3 Gallente - 113.4 m3 Caldari 111.51 m3 the caldari one is the largest... but the least efficient... Quutar Research Services Selling Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10
Vanye Inovske Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2007.10.30 22:12:00 - [30] Nomad, the GREEN jump freighter, using fewer of our precious ice resources! It has the best cap recharge, too. To be honest, though, the Rorqual looks superior to me for logistics uses. Less cargo space, but 126k with t1 rigs and t2 expanders is a significant fraction of the jump freighters, plus that can probably be expanded with GSCs, plus you've got the 1M m3 maintenance bay to move some ships at the same time. Cheaper, lower skill reqs, doesn't have to be invented, same jump range, one third the jump fuel consumption, has 7 mids and 6 highs for shield tanking, cap regen, smartbombs, neuts, or whatever else you want to put onto it. 15x the shield hp, comparable armor, and more hull hp (though the latter two will take a hit from the rigs and expanders)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.10.31 02:22:00 - [31] And probably cheaper to build too _ 1\|2\|3
Heraku Visiontek Heavy Research	Posted - 2007.10.31 08:43:00 - [32] Originally by: Vanye Inovske To be honest, though, the Rorqual looks superior to me for logistics uses. Less cargo space, but 126k with t1 rigs and t2 expanders is a significant fraction of the jump freighters I really wonder how you get 126k out of a ship with 20k basecargo and only 3 low and 2 rig slots.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.31 08:44:00 - [33] Originally by: Heraku Originally by: Vanye Inovske To be honest, though, the Rorqual looks superior to me for logistics uses. Less cargo space, but 126k with t1 rigs and t2 expanders is a significant fraction of the jump freighters I really wonder how you get 126k out of a ship with 20k basecargo and only 3 low and 2 rig slots. Base cargo was increased to 40k in SiSi
Khan Dhu Khan Dhu Research and Cloning	Posted - 2007.10.31 10:14:00 - [34] No one has posted a picture showing build time yet. Considering a T1 freighter takes about 6-7 days to build (w/ or w/o a Beancounter), I'd expect a T2 freighter to take far longer. Not to mention people are trying to build the case in the Game Development Forum that killing carrier logistics only to have them picked up by these things is a bit stupid since it's going to be 4-6 weeks before the first one is even close to being built.
Tunak	Posted - 2007.10.31 10:39:00 - [35] Originally by: Khan Dhu No one has posted a picture showing build time yet. Considering a T1 freighter takes about 6-7 days to build (w/ or w/o a Beancounter), I'd expect a T2 freighter to take far longer. It's 15 days and change on Sisi.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.10.31 10:44:00 - [36] Originally by: Khan Dhu Not to mention people are trying to build the case in the Game Development Forum that killing carrier logistics only to have them picked up by these things is a bit stupid since it's going to be 4-6 weeks before the first one is even close to being built. They can cry me a river. Its called planning. If they know they are going to have though logistics for a while they better plan ahead then. Its not a reason for CCP to not make the change. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Kokob	Posted - 2007.10.31 10:58:00 - [37] CCP needs to grow some kahones and make sure the rorqual doesn't cheat the jump freighters out of a job.
CaptianBlack Minmatar R'n'D.	Posted - 2007.10.31 12:01:00 - [38] freighter 64 mech. eng. cores per invention = 120m ish per invention... BS using 32 per invention = 60m ish.... i have a feeling there is gonna be a shortage of ME cores.. i wonder how stocks will be controlled / replenished Use quotes ("") in URL tags or it breaks the layout.-Rauth
Vanye Inovske Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2007.10.31 18:13:00 - [39] Originally by: Qual Originally by: Khan Dhu Not to mention people are trying to build the case in the Game Development Forum that killing carrier logistics only to have them picked up by these things is a bit stupid since it's going to be 4-6 weeks before the first one is even close to being built. They can cry me a river. Its called planning. If they know they are going to have though logistics for a while they better plan ahead then. Its not a reason for CCP to not make the change. Planning? People have been planning their logistics. They've been planning based on the state of the game over the past 18 months or so, where carriers have been the best solution to POS fueling. They've trained alts on carriers, they've spent money on second accounts, they've built up corporate capital ship assets, all based on this. Now CCP is yanking the rug out from under over a year's worth of planning. Since I'm not a logistics guy it won't affect my personal gameplay much, but I don't blame those people who do work on the logistics end of things for being upset at this.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.10.31 23:10:00 - [40] Originally by: Kokob CCP needs to grow some kahones and make sure the rorqual doesn't cheat the jump freighters out of a job. yeah man, totally! cant have people USING THE BEST TOOL FOR THE JOB. I mean, when I want to do something, I make sure to do it in the slowest and least effective way, because I'm sure thats what CCP wants. be right back, gotta get some ice for a drink. yes, I know I have a freezer full right here, but I think flying to the north pole with a spoon and a measuring cup is a Much better way to get what I need.
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.01 00:00:00 - [41] Originally by: Tek'a Rain Originally by: Kokob CCP needs to grow some kahones and make sure the rorqual doesn't cheat the jump freighters out of a job. yeah man, totally! cant have people USING THE BEST TOOL FOR THE JOB. I mean, when I want to do something, I make sure to do it in the slowest and least effective way, because I'm sure thats what CCP wants. be right back, gotta get some ice for a drink. yes, I know I have a freezer full right here, but I think flying to the north pole with a spoon and a measuring cup is a Much better way to get what I need. Exactly. If ccp is gonna spend valuable programing and content creation time to make t2 jump freighters, they darn well be the best tool for the job. Otherwise, they are a waste of code and the resources would have been better spent in doing something else. I'm soo glad you agree with me.
Vladimir Tinakin Caldari Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.11.01 03:24:00 - [42] Edited by: Vladimir Tinakin on 01/11/2007 03:24:49 Originally by: Kokob Exactly. If ccp is gonna spend valuable programing and content creation time to make t2 jump freighters, they had better darn well be the best tool for the job. Otherwise, they would be a waste of code and the resources would have been better spent in doing something else. I'm soo glad you agree with me. Fixt! At the moment, as they are, they suck ass and are ludicrous for day-to-day 0.0 logistics. "want to operate a pos in deep 0.0? You need a 9 billion isk ship and 50 days of training first." Granted, a rorqual isn't exactly cheap either, but its much more affordable, easier to train for, and far more readily available. Jump freighters will never be the latter, unless invention gets a huge overhaul or the copy process is accelerated. They are a good option for bulk moves: masses of minerals, repackaged ships, etc--a 'luxury' option, as it were. Still, I think CCP should give them another 100k cargohold to be truly worthwhile, otherwise there really isn't much point to them. They're a great idea, they've been long asked for. Their current implementation sucks, but can yet be improved to "serviceable" levels. ----------------------------------------------- Adm Vladimir Tinakin CFO Hadean Drive Yards
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.11.01 04:09:00 - [43] Wow. I've seen alot of changes, but these soul destroying changes to logistics have me seriously thinking about throwing it in :( . I already spend 95% of my time moving things around this would mean that just to spend 99% of the time moving things around I'd have to spend billions and months training for something that's not as good and riskier. There is no upside to this. - Less Space - Less Range - Less defence - More cost for the equipment - More cost for the movement - More difficult to produce
Roger Douglas Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.01 04:19:00 - [44] Edited by: Roger Douglas on 01/11/2007 04:20:08 After reading all of the posts (and agreeing with them), it appears that in the end there is only one superior logistics ship: The Titan. You can buy a titan's worth of materials for what it would cost to build and invent maybe 5 of these jump freighters. And if you had a titan you could jump an endless supply of freighters into and out of 0.0 when the mood struck you, and you'll need a cap building POS anyway. So, I believe the t2 jump freighter wimpiness is simply to keep the Titan from becoming obsolete as the king of logistics.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.01 04:39:00 - [45] Just wait until they change the titan jumpbridge so that it no longer allows jumping freighters _ 1\|2\|3
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.01 07:06:00 - [46] Lol @ the whines Most importantly they are not THAT expensive if you build them yourself. What will make them expensive is the margin that builders will be chargeing on them. Base cost including invention is about 3B tops for one. Titan is still at least 40B+ in materials alone and requires 0.0 building where as Jump Freighters can be build in empire, thus giving just about no construction overhead.) About the HIGH skill reqs compared to rorqual. Lol. It doesnt even require Capital ships skill. Jump frighter takes 5 more lvl V ranks of training to fly from scratch than the Roroqual, and its a bloddy T2 ship. More funny it takes 3 ranks less than a Carrier. (This is NOT counting the skill to actually beeing able to fit a Rorqual and carrier for optimal hauling. You get that on the Jump Freighter right out of the box.) "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Jahya Massai	Posted - 2007.11.01 08:07:00 - [47] From what I'm seeing on SiSi they lowered the building requirements a bit compared to the screenshot on the first post (which I'm assuming was a waste 10% bpo). The biggest reduction is in tech 2 armor plates, 25K (lol) on the first screenie vs 5K now. At 90% waste it looks like near 2B build cost + invention cost which I'm guesstimating at 400-500m per run (IF the tech 2 output bpcs follow the general rule of 0 + decryptor modifier for 1-run input bpc). So, taking into consideration effort, risk, investment etc, I'm expecting them to cost 4-5B on the open market. At a hauling capacity of roughly twice that of the Rorqual.. I'm not convinced. Hopefully the devs will boost that cargo bay a bit. Otherwise it looks promising.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.01 12:06:00 - [48] I am still wary of the thing to be honest. Going to save up some more, if the Rhea is around 4 Billion then I will go for that over the Rorqual, as all that isk spent on the Capital ship skill and Capital industrial plus T2 cargo rigs will be about the same as the Rhea, training time is scheduled for completion around late December so I don't mind on that count Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Mean Molly	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:23:00 - [49] Edited by: Mean Molly on 01/11/2007 13:23:26 Production cost of jumpfreighters is currently at 2.4 bill In addition there will be BPC cost and invention cost. Lets say bcp cost you 200mill, and every attempt at inventing is 140mill / 2 run. Total cost will then be: PLS do math before *****ing.... --- Live and learn, die and learn more! http://www.dukefoss.com/eve/
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:51:00 - [50] huh @ molly I dont get that list... Anyways, doing the numbers it looks to me like the cost pr. run will be about 200M (over time), so if your base price for materials are right thats still way below to 3B I put as max. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Vanye Inovske Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2007.11.01 13:59:00 - [51] Originally by: Qual Lol @ the whines Most importantly they are not THAT expensive if you build them yourself. What will make them expensive is the margin that builders will be chargeing on them. Base cost including invention is about 3B tops for one. In which case you could be without necessary deep space logistics capability till next Christmas if you have even a moderately unlucky run of invention attempts. I thought you said people were supposed to plan. Doesn't seem like very smart planning for a space-holding alliance to rely on a role of the dice. Are all these invention cost estimates including the opportunity cost of a freighter bpo not being in production for months on end?
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.01 14:04:00 - [52] As to the comments on preparedness, thats a bunch of hog swallop. Alliances have 3 more weeks of the status quo.. they should use the time to prepare for a few months of fuel so they can await their shiny new jump freighters. That would be all too easy though.. better to cry the sky is falling and curse CCP.
Salia Deluri Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.11.01 17:01:00 - [53] ouch! OK so this thing does not need jump drive skill? cool Does jump fuel conservation and jump drive calibration affect the jump range like other capitals still? I am not cool with the BS on not being able to put loaded ships in my carrier. F the logistics what if I just want to move my own stuff or have loaded cruisers? sigh CCP WTF are you doing? I want a ship that can carry anything in the game not some crippled version of a dumpster. I should be able to move a capital ship assembly array in this thing. but on witht he fight. With friends like I have who the hell needs enimies so I pray.. Code of Deluri Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:17:00 - [54] Originally by: Vanye Inovske Are all these invention cost estimates including the opportunity cost of a freighter bpo not being in production for months on end? No they are based on the fact that I can pick up BPC's at 200M each on the market. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Vanye Inovske Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2007.11.01 19:48:00 - [55] Originally by: Qual Originally by: Vanye Inovske Are all these invention cost estimates including the opportunity cost of a freighter bpo not being in production for months on end? No they are based on the fact that I can pick up BPC's at 200M each on the market. And do you honestly believe that price will remain 200M once people are after freighter bpcs for invention? Eventually it may re-stabilize there after people buy bpos for copying purposes, but in the short term there won't be anywhere near enough bpcs on the market for you to use for invention, not at that price.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.01 20:39:00 - [56] Originally by: Akita T Just wait until they change the titan jumpbridge so that it no longer allows jumping freighters Cassandra
Reapeat Offender DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.01 21:34:00 - [57] Edited by: Reapeat Offender on 01/11/2007 21:44:56 Lets pretend that all of what we are seeing on Sisi is currently planned to go live. There a 2 different forces at play that are going to have far reaching negative impacts on deep 0.0 logistics. The first is the removal of cargo from ships being transported in carrier ship hangar arrays. Carriers are currently relied upon quite heavily for logistics. Alliances will be scrambling for a replacement on relatively short notice. Looking to the past as a guide, it is likely there will be just a few weeks time(tops) before CCP announces this and it goes live. Not a lot of time for "planning", as some have liked to point out in this thread earlier. So that now leads us to the second issue. What we believe to be CCP's solution to the problem they are creating with the carrier cargo nerf: the t2 jump freighter. The fact that it is t2 and not tier 2 will be the problem. A tier 2 ship being built from a NPC seeded BPO is predictable. Just like the launch of the Rorq last patch. Completed ships were being shipped out right on schedule upon the release of the BPO. That will not be the case for invented ones. The biggest issue is the availability of BPC's. There are only a relative handful of them on the market at any one time. That supply will draw to near 0 once even a hint of this hits the general Eve population. With the cost of the t1 freighter BPO's and the long copy time as hurdles, the BPC supply issue is not likely to be resolved for many many months. They will be trickling onto the market at highly inflated prices. Also keep in mind, not everyone is going to be able to switch their BPO use to copying as t1 production will need to continue since its needed to build the t2. With the long copy times, some BPO's needing to stay in production, huge price hurdle for the average pubbie to get into the BPC making business, the supply of BPC's for the budding inventor is going to be a real challenge and a bottleneck. Assuming normal invention sucess rates along with the number of chances the motivated inventor is going to even get to try due to bpc availability, it is quite a possible normal outcome that it could take months to actually obtain the invented BPC one needs to build the t2 version. We won't even discuss the build costs, time, need for t1 version that will all be astronomical compared to other invented t2 ships. So, the situation we have is that a key componet of many logistics chains may be removed without its intended replacement being available for months potentially. Perhaps not available at all for some due to the costs involved. I will leave the discussion of the validity of both the carrier cargo nerf and its intended replacement being t2 to others. I would just appeal to CCP to not do both of these at the same time. If CCP feels the need to nerf Carrier cargo hauling ability to the point of making it impractical, then at least gives those who currently rely upon it heavily a reasonable amount of time to find alternatives while keeping in mind that obtaining a t2 jump freighter for even the most motivated amongst us could take several months at a minimum.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:26:00 - [58] Edited by: Qual on 01/11/2007 22:37:03 Dont tell me you cant get enough Ragoons together to protect a freighter convoy... Yes, freighters are still in the game. They are still the ultimate hauler, though very slow, and for the really large empires the Titan jump bridge will still solve the problem of gettin past low sec space in one piece. Am i saying it is as easy as now? No not by a long shot. But those big blue, red and yellow patches in southern space tells me its way to easy now. Unlike what Sir Molle has told you, eve is NOT about concoring the whole universe. CCP putting an extra hindrence up for wild space grabbing gets my seal of approval. Edited for spelling "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Vanye Inovske Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:38:00 - [59] Originally by: Qual You freighter are still in the game. They are still the ultimate hauler, though very slow, and for the really large empires the Titan jump bridge will still solve the problem of gettin past low sec space in piece. Or maybe not.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.11.01 22:43:00 - [60] Yeah, but see the thing with freighters, and I've done MANY freighter convoys: is that what takes 1 hour with carriers takes 6-8 hours of highly organized, large-scale, I-wannna-go-home, gate jumping. No need to attack his politics, what he said is absolutely right. And believe you me, you do this week in and week out, you will see a large collapse of the EVE economy as people simply stop buying and losing their moms and caps because it will become too much of a hassle to replace them. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Reapeat Offender DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:08:00 - [61] Edited by: Reapeat Offender on 01/11/2007 23:09:53 Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 01/11/2007 22:37:03 Dont tell me you cant get enough Ragoons together to protect a freighter convoy... Yes, freighters are still in the game. They are still the ultimate hauler, though very slow, and for the really large empires the Titan jump bridge will still solve the problem of gettin past low sec space in one piece. Am i saying it is as easy as now? No not by a long shot. But those big blue, red and yellow patches in southern space tells me its way to easy now. Unlike what Sir Molle has told you, eve is NOT about concoring the whole universe. CCP putting an extra hindrence up for wild space grabbing gets my seal of approval. Edited for spelling Making major changes to existing mechanics without providing a reasonable amount of time to plan for it and adjust is poor game management in my opinion. We goons already have a jumpbridge network that stretches from the lowsec/0.0 border all the way down to into the heart of our space. T1 freighters already play an important logistics role for us in moving bulk items from empire down our jump bridge highway into our hub systems. As I'm sure I don't have to tell you, the logistics of running an alliance in the middle of a war in 0.0 involves more than just running huge amounts of bulk items in t1 freighters to hub systems. There is also a need to move smaller amounts of materials to many different locations through hostile space located some distance away from the central hubs. A role currently filled perfectly by carriers. One now that may need to be replaced with something else. And no..that something else isn't a heavily guarded convoy taking a t1 freighter through 20 hostile jumps to fuel 6 POS's in a system that happens not to be along the jump bridge route. I am not disputing CCP's right to make massive changes with huge impacts. I am not taking a position one way or other as to how I feel about these changes. The point of my post was to simply say I think it only fair that they give those negatively impacted a reasonable amount of time to adjust first before implementing the changes. Not an unreasonable request really. Also one not without precedent. CCP was going to introduce a huge nerf to mineral compression in the last patch cycle with almost no advance warning to those who would have been negatively impacted. After listening to player feedback, they decided to delay their planned nerf. I only hope they listen this time as well and act accordingly. Oh..and by the way...this isn't CAOD. Save the goon bashing for posts in the appropriate forum.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:21:00 - [62] It was not meant as bashing. It was actually just a hint to the fact that you are the largest alliance in the game. I will admit I dont understand the need to nerf the old freighters ability to use jump bridges. Seems a bit odd. But then again. This will make POS logistics hard. This will a good counter for POS warfare. But at a way to high cost for the rest of the economy. I agree that if ALL the changes currently there makes it to release, the T2 market will collapse. FOr while at least. Taking a longer view, it might actually ahve the effect of reducing the territory sizes keep by single alliances and giving smaller alliances chances to get a spot in 0.0. The relative value of a small spot will rise if logistcs get harder as that will raise the price of 0.0 materials all over the board. But id that is CCP's gamble, well, than thats some gamble. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Quutar Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:27:00 - [63] it also means that many spots in 0.0 that were previously profitable will become more costly than they are worth so while some think that by forcing the large alliances to consolidate their empire will free up space for smaller alliances... these spaces that are abandoned won't be profitable for them either. There is an economy of scale in running things in 0.0. Quutar Research Services Selling Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10
ardik TunkbwahCorp	Posted - 2007.11.01 23:36:00 - [64] Originally by: Qual This will make POS logistics hard. This will a good counter for POS warfare. I'll start off diplomatically by calling you a complete ******* moron, since i feel that's the only reasonable response to something as offensively stupid as your statement. No, it is not a counter for POS warfare. A counter for POS warfare would be limiting the amoung of sov claming towers in a system to like 3 so anchoring more would be of no point and people would be actually forced to fight over towers to take a system instead of just anchoring a few more. Or something like that. Making the logistics take a couple hours more will not counter this, it'll only make the lives of the logistics people more miserable for no good reason, because in a large alliance someone WILL anchor and fuel those extra towers even if it means a couple more hours of mind-numbingly boring hauling. Why? For the same reason we have POS spamming now; it's easier than the alternative. If CCP actually wanted to fight POS spamming they'd just remove POS spamming as an alternative to winning a system altogheter.
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.02 01:14:00 - [65] I would hope we can keep the partisan bull **** out of this thread. As well, this is about information for t2 freighters not a discussion about the mechanics of Sovereignty. Start another thread for that if you wish to discuss the mechanics of Sov.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2007.11.02 04:59:00 - [66] so whats the point of having a carrier that holds assembled ships that cant have ammo in their cargo holds!?!?!??!?! jump freighters seem cool and all, except for the problems pointed out by everyone else, namely the long ass bpc copy time, and crazy cost of build.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:23:00 - [67] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Akita T Just wait until they change the titan jumpbridge so that it no longer allows jumping freighters Cassandra Guess what ? T1 freighters on SiSi *have 10 mass and /10 agility now** This effectively means that you can NO LONGER titan-jumpbridge them NOR POS-jumpbridge them in any affordable way. This is one big "told you so" _ 1\|2\|3
Kayl Breinhar Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.02 09:50:00 - [68] Edited by: Kayl Breinhar on 02/11/2007 09:51:06 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton so whats the point of having a carrier that holds assembled ships that cant have ammo in their cargo holds!?!?!??!?! jump freighters seem cool and all, except for the problems pointed out by everyone else, namely the long ass bpc copy time, and crazy cost of build. I believe they said they can carry ammo but that's all. Hopefully where applicable cap boosters and (soon) scripts, probes (scanning and warp disruption) apply as well.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.02 10:08:00 - [69] Originally by: ardik Originally by: Qual This will make POS logistics hard. This will a good counter for POS warfare. I'll start off diplomatically by calling you a complete ***** moron, since i feel that's the only reasonable response to something as offensively stupid as your statement. Lets just say I happen to know quite a bit on the topic. What I say was founded in actual events, not speculation. But: Originally by:** Kokob I would hope we can keep the partisan bull **** out of this thread. As well, this is about information for t2 freighters not a discussion about the mechanics of Sovereignty. Start another thread for that if you wish to discuss the mechanics of Sov. I assume that was meant for me as well. I was trying to present possible CCP motives for doing this, not start a discussion on the topic of POS warfare as such. "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.11.02 12:12:00 - [70] Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 29/10/2007 07:32:08 Originally by: Kokob -Thanx to Imperator Jora'h for the link. I just noticed this thread and saw the attribution to me. I had gotten the link from someone else with no clue who had originally put that up and then used that link in another thread around here somewhere. I never tried to pass it off as my link...just a link. Had I known who it came from originally I would have given credit. Sorry for the confusion. Just some honest mistakes.
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:26:00 - [71] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Akita T Just wait until they change the titan jumpbridge so that it no longer allows jumping freighters Cassandra Guess what ? T1 freighters on SiSi *have 10 mass and /10 agility now** This effectively means that you can NO LONGER titan-jumpbridge them NOR POS-jumpbridge them in any affordable way. This is one big "told you so" I'm admittedly a dummy about these things. The upshot of that is freighters will handle the same (as in aligning and time to jump) but cost MUCH more to Jump Bridge? (Just want to be clear) Also, can Jump Freighters drive around Empire? That is can they use gates like normal freighters?
maarud Knight of Anubis	Posted - 2007.11.02 13:40:00 - [72] Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Also, can Jump Freighters drive around Empire? That is can they use gates like normal freighters? Yes, same as black ops BS's. They have jump drives but can still use gates. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member <t20> i'd rather have a python in my pants than a sleipnir
Vanye Inovske Two Brothers Mining Corp. Friend or Enemy	Posted - 2007.11.02 17:51:00 - [73] Originally by: maarud Originally by: Imperator Jora'h Also, can Jump Freighters drive around Empire? That is can they use gates like normal freighters? Yes, same as black ops BS's. They have jump drives but can still use gates. Have the devs said that anywhere? I haven't seen anything. And I don't believe the ships are available on Sisi yet to check.
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:14:00 - [74] Edited by: Qual on 02/11/2007 19:19:31 He, he. CCP are full of tricks on these ships: Tech 2 style Captital Construction Components are on Sisi now. (Like Capital Titanium Diborate Armor Plate). And they are of course need on the Jump Frieghter instead of the usual T2 contruction compnonets. We need new price estimates... They seem to have a price factor of x50 pr unit over the usual components, but thats a very rough early estimate. (Fewer unit s are of course needed to though.) "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.11.02 19:45:00 - [75] So is it still a tech 2 bpc, or a t1 bpo that uses t2 construction parts? :-p _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:07:00 - [76] Originally by: Pwett So is it still a tech 2 bpc, or a t1 bpo that uses t2 construction parts? :-p Well, whatever would make you the happiest, thats the one it isnt. -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Jahya Massai	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:27:00 - [77] Originally by: Qual Edited by: Qual on 02/11/2007 19:19:31 He, he. CCP are full of tricks on these ships: Tech 2 style Captital Construction Components are on Sisi now. (Like Capital Titanium Diborate Armor Plate). And they are of course need on the Jump Frieghter instead of the usual T2 contruction compnonets. We need new price estimates... They seem to have a price factor of x50 pr unit over the usual components, but thats a very rough early estimate. (Fewer unit s are of course needed to though.) Technically speaking, I think they're Capital T2 Ship Components and not T2 Capital Ship Components. Or as CCP calls them "Advanced Capital Ship Components". The BPOs are not yet seeded, but I hope they'll be below 45m a piece. As for price estimates, running the numbers through a spreadsheet (Anshar in this particular case), multiplying everything by 1.9 to simulate an invented bpc with 90% waste... Moon materials Jita cost is.... drumroll 2,550,000,000 ISK, most of it in low-ends though (crystalline carbonide, sylramic fibers, fullerides). They did reduce the need for actual capital components from the earlier versions, but they added capital cargo bays too to the requirements. In any case, the total cost for the (t1) capital comps would be 500m according to eve-meep. To that add the tech 1 hull and the invention cost, and you've got 4.5b easy for a jump-freighter off the assembly line. Before people start whining, they should remember that this ISN'T live, it's on the test server, and as such it's subject to frequent change and tweaking. Whether they tweak the numbers or not, I do believe the requirement types will stay pretty much the same (advanced capital components + capital components).
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:34:00 - [78] BPOs seeded ? ROFL. You're joking, right ? Invention only ! _ 1\|2\|3
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:36:00 - [79] Originally by: Akita T BPOs seeded ? ROFL. You're joking, right ? Invention only ! Ehm, I think he meant the component BPOs? -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Jahya Massai	Posted - 2007.11.02 20:44:00 - [80] Originally by: Akita T BPOs seeded ? ROFL. You're joking, right ? Invention only ! I meant the new component BPOs.. Which are not inventable by the looks of it! (whew)
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:09:00 - [81] Edited by: Akita T on 02/11/2007 22:14:42 Originally by: Reverend Revelator Ehm, I think he meant the component BPOs? That's what I meant too Originally by: Jahya Massai I meant the new component BPOs.. Which are not inventable by the looks of it! (whew) Not yet... P.S. Ok, ok, I was just being evil here... I hope they don't actually DO it _ 1\|2\|3
Jahya Massai	Posted - 2007.11.02 22:50:00 - [82] Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 02/11/2007 22:14:42 Originally by: Reverend Revelator Ehm, I think he meant the component BPOs? That's what I meant too Originally by: Jahya Massai I meant the new component BPOs.. Which are not inventable by the looks of it! (whew) Not yet... P.S. Ok, ok, I was just being evil here... I hope they don't actually DO it Hey it could be worse.. like tech 2 capital comps (t2 capital cargo bay, t2 capital propulsion engines etc). And they'd only be inventable from the tech 1 blueprints.. the ones that cost 1B+ each. We better shut up before we give them any ideas. I've been considering the "ME decryptors" lately(ie. Engagement Plan). I've used them with some success, mostly for gallente jobs - they were saving me 10m or so per HAC, at least in theory. On the other hand would I waste a freighter BPC on anything else than the best chance decryptor? I guess it all depends on the BPC availability. Which at 1 month copy time, is not going to be that great.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.02 23:37:00 - [83] I've got almost 2k of those +2 runs, no ME penality, +5 PE decryptors lying around just for this _ 1\|2\|3
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:10:00 - [84] Why would you think that capital tech 2 components would need to be invented? Regular tech 2 component bpos are bought from NPC corps.................
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.03 00:17:00 - [85] Shh, go with the flow, we're on a roll here _ 1\|2\|3
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.11.05 04:41:00 - [86] I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions. First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec. The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention. They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market. The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5. I think that cover most about the T2 freighters. Signature approved by Eldo
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.11.05 05:05:00 - [87] Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions. First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec. The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention. They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market. The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5. I think that cover most about the T2 freighters. SON OF A FIN BIATCH! Curses the heavens. I was praying with every fiber in my body that CCP was not going to be stupid enough to release t2 Capital. Considering all of their recent ideas to "fix" Eve its no fracking wonder they are going to keep an idea as stupid as t2 cap ships. Trinity = NGE of SWG no qualms about it.
Khan Dhu Khan Dhu Research and Cloning	Posted - 2007.11.05 09:37:00 - [88] Edited by: Khan Dhu on 05/11/2007 09:37:58 Nice, let's just hope now that they heard us asking for a 7.5% per level jump range boost over a 10% per level Hull HP boost. (and that you're not talking out your ass and getting us all riled up with good yet false news)
Gorfob	Posted - 2007.11.05 09:38:00 - [89] Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions. First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec. The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention. They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market. The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5. I think that cover most about the T2 freighters. If your lying you might possibly be a dead man. -dbp

CCP Chronotis	Posted - 2007.11.05 09:52:00 - [90] Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5. Nice to meet you, hope you enjoyed it :) I would just like to add an addendum, that we have not set that in stone yet, so it may change but we are currently thinking the skill time is a little harsh, there is blogs due out, on their production and use which we should hopefully get out in the next few days.

Khan Dhu Khan Dhu Research and Cloning	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:04:00 - [91] Edited by: Khan Dhu on 05/11/2007 10:12:04 Didn't go to Fanfest, Chron, but in addition to the ideas revealed here, might I suggest a few others to keep these in the "semi-affordable" bracket: 1. Add decryptors to Racial R&D corp LP stores at 12,500LP and 12.5m isk apiece. This way the farmers might either desert the COSMOS complexes, or be forced to actually undercut the LP buyers. Cheaper invention. 2. PLEASE consider the jump range skill bonus. Hell, keep it at 5ly base with a 5% bonus to jump range per level of Racial Freighter. This'll give it a base of 6ly at IV while you can still train Freighter V for a 6.25ly base before JDC. I think this'd make a whole lot of people forget about the carrier nerf. Or just please give it carrier range base (it'd stand to reason T2 jump-capable ships would have more efficient JDs :) ). 3. Consider reducing the time to make freighter BPCs so existing freighter producers are motivated to actually pump out BPCs over just building the ship itself. Even bringing copy time somehat in line with production time might make some producers go with a 1-to-1 approach.
Braaage eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.05 10:24:00 - [92] Freighters are funny on Sisi atm.... They NEVER align to warp point - agility is so bad i warped sideways the whole trip and when came out of warp was still sideways. At least the old figures you actually aligned, They take forever to line up to warp point - empire gankage will be increased so much. It's just not realistic atm in any way shape of form to fly a ship sideways -- eve-guides.com Includes all about POSs, outposts, tech II production, item database and much much more.
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.05 11:04:00 - [93] Sorry i've not updated some things yet. had to reformat my pc again... vista and old bios were not liking each other. I will update info asap.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.05 14:17:00 - [94] Originally by: Khan Dhu Add decryptors to Racial R&D corp LP stores at 12,500LP and 12.5m isk apiece. This way the farmers might either desert the COSMOS complexes, or be forced to actually undercut the LP buyers. Cheaper invention. In case you missed it, all decryptors are being moved OUT of COSMOS complexes and into exploration only. _ 1\|2\|3
Dominique Vasilkovsky Techmart Industries	Posted - 2007.11.05 15:51:00 - [95] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Nice to meet you, hope you enjoyed it :) I had a great time so will hopefully see you again next year. Signature approved by Eldo
Khan Dhu Khan Dhu Research and Cloning	Posted - 2007.11.05 17:20:00 - [96] Originally by: Akita T Originally by: Khan Dhu Add decryptors to Racial R&D corp LP stores at 12,500LP and 12.5m isk apiece. This way the farmers might either desert the COSMOS complexes, or be forced to actually undercut the LP buyers. Cheaper invention. In case you missed it, all decryptors are being moved OUT of COSMOS complexes and into exploration only. Great...at least with the farmers, they gouged, but there was a steady stream entering the marketplace...
Salia Deluri Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.11.05 20:13:00 - [97] CCP, Thank you for considering the level requirements for this thing. Also what is your opinion about capital ship assembly arrays? It has become painfully obvious that now only the people who have these in place will be able to use them. Will you be lowering the size of these things or creating a bigger jump freighter? -Deluri Code of Deluri Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today.
Quutar Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.11.05 21:30:00 - [98] if capital ship assembly arrays fit into jump freighters then what is the use/need of a normal tech 1 freighter. A capital ship assembly array is used to build a mothership or a titan, and has no use other than that. Any alliance that is building those two, should be able to handle a one time freighter op to anchor it. At 900,000 m3 it requires a caldari or gallente pilot at 4, or one of the other races at a 5, so it is not a minor issue to be dealt with. if there were to add slots to the jump freighters, or somehow allow their sizes to be increased, they should always be below 750,000 m3 maxed out. A freighter should be required to deploy an outpost. Quutar Research Services Selling Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10
Aykido Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.11.06 18:16:00 - [99] Originally by: AMD383 Edited by: AMD383 on 05/11/2007 23:08:09 look at this and then at this and then you see it it's more then 2.4b isk i understand this whats Anathema post abaut 9b isk .... Capital Comonents have 100x for low end and 10x for high end components. Anyone seen any other new material bill screenies for the JFs where Advanced Capital Ship Components have been added? Or alternatively have a pile of Freighter BPCs that I could invent from in the current Sisi mirror? Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPO: modules, rigs, drones, ammo and ships (2 ships missing), and most capital modules too! Also any INVENTED T2 BPC and max run invention prints in bulk!
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.07 16:42:00 - [100] ok updated the links with new screenies of things that changed. Props to my Corp mate Rawne Karrde / Jalen Rose who can't login to TQ atm but has been on SiSi for me.
Chomp Rock	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:27:00 - [101] so, can a builder give us a rough idea of the price of one of these things, considering just materials involved without too much invention markup and lab time?
SpaceSlag Dragons Of Redemption Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:56:00 - [102] Originally by: Braaage Freighters are funny on Sisi atm.... They NEVER align to warp point - agility is so bad i warped sideways the whole trip and when came out of warp was still sideways. At least the old figures you actually aligned, They take forever to line up to warp point - empire gankage will be increased so much. It's just not realistic atm in any way shape of form to fly a ship sideways The freighter model doesn't need to be aligned to anything for it to warp. The only thing that matters in this game is your velocity vector. If that vector is the same direction, or very close to the same, then you will warp off given that you've reached 75% of max speed. Fly a freighter for a living and figure out how to warp off just as fast or faster than a battleship. -Yes, I've warped off faster in a freighter than in an inty before. Originally by: Chomp Rock so, can a builder give us a rough idea of the price of one of these things, considering just materials involved without too much invention markup and lab time? As BPO's for the capitolship components have not come out on TQ yet, and thus no price tag on them, it's impossible to accurately tell. Whats hawt about these is that I can make them right now on TQ. Thats hawt! Additionally, I guess I'm crying to baby jebus about this, but: If this ships is going to be T2 for crying out loud and require T2 components, and a whole LOT of capitolship and T2 capitolship varient components, then PLEASE for the love of baby jebus, let it have a fitting of the suggested following: 1 high (No turrets or missile launchers) 0-2 mid slots 4-6 low slots 2 rig slots w/ 400 calibration like every other T2 ship in the game keep current attributes Become a pirate without fear of death!
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:17:00 - [103] Saw todays update.. Am I to understand these are now NOT invention items? Ie BPOs on market?? /emote grins widely at Akitias stack of mech eng cores According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Kokob	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:40:00 - [104] Um nope they are still invention. What may I ask has changed that made you think that?
Molly Neuro	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:21:00 - [105] Originally by: CCP Chronotis Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5. Nice to meet you, hope you enjoyed it :) I would just like to add an addendum, that we have not set that in stone yet, so it may change but we are currently thinking the skill time is a little harsh, there is blogs due out, on their production and use which we should hopefully get out in the next few days. Will the carrier hauling nerf be mentioned in the blog or will you continue to ignore it?
Reapeat Offender DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:53:00 - [106] Edited by: Reapeat Offender on 07/11/2007 23:55:28 Originally by: Kokob Um nope they are still invention. What may I ask has changed that made you think that? It still seems to me like conflicting data is being provided. One one hand, we have invention tabs and t2 variants and t2 components. All things that would seem to indicate that these will enter the game through invention. On the other hand, we have actual ship BPO's on Sisi that have copy, ME, and PE research tabs. Those are not something you'd expect see for a print that would only be entering the game via invention limited run bpc's. Also, the need to use t2 componets does not automatically exclude a NPC seeded bpo as there are already prints in game that are NPC seeded that use t2 components.(Prototype cloaking device..etc) I really wish CCP would step up and clarify this. A lot of preperation and planning is going to be required that will depend upon how this is implemented. Seeing as how logistic and supply chains are impacted, the more time we are given to plan and prepare in advance, the better.
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:06:00 - [107] Originally by: Reapeat Offender Edited by: Reapeat Offender on 07/11/2007 23:55:28 Originally by: Kokob Um nope they are still invention. What may I ask has changed that made you think that? It still seems to me like conflicting data is being provided. One one hand, we have invention tabs and t2 variants and t2 components. All things that would seem to indicate that these will enter the game through invention. On the other hand, we have actual ship BPO's on Sisi that have copy, ME, and PE research tabs. Those are not something you'd expect see for a print that would only be entering the game via invention limited run bpc's. Also, the need to use t2 componets does not automatically exclude a NPC seeded bpo as there are already prints in game that are NPC seeded that use t2 components.(Prototype cloaking device..etc) I really wish CCP would step up and clarify this. A lot of preperation and planning is going to be required that will depend upon how this is implemented. Seeing as how logistic and supply chains are impacted, the more time we are given to plan and prepare in advance, the better. That was a very succinct, eloquent, well thought out poast on the logistical concerns of these ships.... so.. WTF are you doing in GS.....? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:09:00 - [108] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 08/11/2007 02:11:43 All I gotta say is: T2 Capship components. <3! Oh, and meh. trains lvl 5 freighters It's only 45 days! Improve Market Competition!
Burchov Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2007.11.08 08:43:00 - [109] Originally by: Reapeat Offender On the other hand, we have actual ship BPO's on Sisi that have copy, ME, and PE research tabs. Those are not something you'd expect see for a print that would only be entering the game via invention limited run bpc's. So do for example Overdrive II or Mining Laser Upgrade II blueprints, yet those are also invention only items. Originally by: Reapeat Offender Also, the need to use t2 componets does not automatically exclude a NPC seeded bpo as there are already prints in game that are NPC seeded that use t2 components.(Prototype cloaking device..etc) That is because the cloak BPO was originally handed out via some sort of lottery (I don't know the exact details, I do know that it wasn't until one of the revelations patches that that they got seeded on the market). Same goes for the deployable warp bubble blueprints. Originally by: Reapeat Offender I really wish CCP would step up and clarify this. A lot of preperation and planning is going to be required that will depend upon how this is implemented. Seeing as how logistic and supply chains are impacted, the more time we are given to plan and prepare in advance, the better. Indeed, I would really like to know how CCP expects us to invent these in any decent numbers when a copy takes almost a month to create in a POS...
Qual Gallente Cornexant Research	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:13:00 - [110] Originally by: Reapeat Offender On the other hand, we have actual ship BPO's on Sisi that have copy, ME, and PE research tabs. Those are not something you'd expect see for a print that would only be entering the game via invention limited run bpc's. Actully, you are both right and wrong. Yes, there are BPO's in the database. But: This is to be able to handle BPC's! You see BPC's are not an item in the eve item list as such. They are a variation instance of the BPO item in the database. So you cant find BPC item types in the item database only BPO's. So to create the possibility of inventing T2 freighter BPC's the BPO's of those have to be in the item database. Get it? "The short version: Qual is right." -Papa Smurf
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.09 14:56:00 - [111] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 09/11/2007 14:56:16 My latest estimate of the production cost for one of these behemoths is approximately 9bn isk, based on the Nomad, falling to 8bn isk if the chance to invent them is set much higher than normal, closer to 90%. The 0.8 chance, +2 runs decryptor gives the best results due to the phenomenal build requirements (they give no further penalty to ME), but there may be revisions that could change this and possibly knock the cost down to 7.3bn in the best case scenario. I've made the following assumptions (all reasonably sound): Input BPC costs about 200m isk T1 freighter costs about 800m Extra T1 components + T2 components total approx. 5bn isk (if you buy the advanced materials off the market and produce the components yourself). 1 T2 Capital ship component = 10 normal T2 ship components' worth of materials Putting all this together would be a lot of work - I wouldn't be surprised if the first few sold for as much as 10bn isk, perhaps more if they can only be produced in low sec or 0.0. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.11.09 23:13:00 - [112] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 09/11/2007 14:56:16 My latest estimate of the production cost for one of these behemoths is approximately 9bn isk, based on the Nomad, falling to 8bn isk if the chance to invent them is set much higher than normal, closer to 90%. The 0.8 chance, +2 runs decryptor gives the best results due to the phenomenal build requirements (they give no further penalty to ME), but there may be revisions that could change this and possibly knock the cost down to 7.3bn in the best case scenario. I've made the following assumptions (all reasonably sound): Input BPC costs about 200m isk T1 freighter costs about 800m Extra T1 components + T2 components total approx. 5bn isk (if you buy the advanced materials off the market and produce the components yourself). 1 T2 Capital ship component = 10 normal T2 ship components' worth of materials Putting all this together would be a lot of work - I wouldn't be surprised if the first few sold for as much as 10bn isk, perhaps more if they can only be produced in low sec or 0.0. More proof that CCP are colossel Idiots... because a t2 freighter makes alot of sense when you can just build a fracking MOM and be able to haul more stuff, especially at that build cost... best guess puts the sale price for that ship at min 15mil starting out if the build costs are that high. The work factored in with their rarity is going to be stupidly expensive.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Phoenix Logistics Industries	Posted - 2007.11.10 01:28:00 - [113] have not seen this part pointed out, but what about manufacturers being forced to re buy important capship material BPOs? if the t1 versions are expensive, the t2 will be nutty, and this is just another barrier of entry into the market. already too many of these, making the JF an even worse prospect for anyone outside a mega-alliance to consider. or, I'm thinking about it wrong and its a none-issue.
All Clear	Posted - 2007.11.10 22:16:00 - [114] so, jump freighters are to be allowed in hi-sec space using normal gates and whatnot... has anyone considered the risks of actually taking one of these through hi-sec?? regular freighters diddling their way through empire get ganked with as little as 500m in their cargoholds - isn't a jump freighter, itself worth 4-5 billion+, going to be a far better target, especially for griefers? as currently planned, the rhea only has 4k more armor than the charon and only 1200 more shield hp -- is anyone else seeing a potential problem with this? ccp seem to be off their meds
Ms Vanity Caldari Hulk Industries	Posted - 2007.11.11 11:14:00 - [115] The good thing about jump freighters being able to use gates is that you can jump direct from jita (or wherever) to low sec :P no need to slow boat through empire full of expensive goodies. Teh only time u will need to slow boat with through empire is on the way in, when your cargo is empty. Unless ofcourse you are bring stuff into empire, then you are subject to gankage. Its going to make logistics of getting stuff from empire into low sec/0.0 easier. but no change on getting it back
Ms Vanity Caldari Hulk Industries	Posted - 2007.11.11 11:18:00 - [116] Originally by: Tek'a Rain have not seen this part pointed out, but what about manufacturers being forced to re buy important capship material BPOs? if the t1 versions are expensive, the t2 will be nutty, and this is just another barrier of entry into the market. already too many of these, making the JF an even worse prospect for anyone outside a mega-alliance to consider. or, I'm thinking about it wrong and its a none-issue. Yes teh T1 Capital component bpos are expensive, but the jump freighters use these same bpos. There is no T2 capital componets needed. The T2 materials are Capital T2 components such as Capital Ion thrusters. Teh non capital version of these bpos are cheap. Id expect teh capital versions to be more expensive, but hopefully not insanely so.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.11 11:21:00 - [117] Just because you CAN use a jumpfreighter in highsec doesn't mean you should use it more than one jump. If you do have a jumpfreighter, you should have the skills to run the corresponding T1 freighter. So, use a T1 for the empire run section (since you also get a much larger carry capacity), and the jumpfreighter for the rest of the way in lowsec/0.0. Or, if you come in empty, go all the way in the jumpfreighter, and you might be able to jump out to lowsec directly if you want to, as the above poster said... _ New character creation guide \| [CNVTF] corp recruiting \| Stacknerfs explained
Verite Rendition Caldari F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.11 11:41:00 - [118] Originally by: Akita T Just because you CAN use a jumpfreighter in highsec doesn't mean you should use it more than one jump. If you do have a jumpfreighter, you should have the skills to run the corresponding T1 freighter. So, use a T1 for the empire run section (since you also get a much larger carry capacity), and the jumpfreighter for the rest of the way in lowsec/0.0. Or, if you come in empty, go all the way in the jumpfreighter, and you might be able to jump out to lowsec directly if you want to, as the above poster said... Indeed. Given the price of a jump freighter, there are going to be at least a few people more than willing to gank it just to blow up such a valuable ship. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Automated Influence Map
Torsadeu GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.11 16:37:00 - [119] The attribute screen shot cuts off how many isotopes are needed for a jump. Does anyone know if it uses the same amount of isotopes per jump as other capitals or is it increased? Coming soon to a ~~RISE~~ near you Signature removed - please resize it to be less than 120pixels in height - Jacques([email protected])
Rawne Karrde An Tir Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2007.11.12 00:49:00 - [120] I don't remember the amount precisely but i do remember it was 3000 units and change. 3100 seems to ring a bell, which is just over 3 times the fuel to jump a dread.
Adm Tecumseh Caldari Lumatron Productions	Posted - 2007.11.12 06:38:00 - [121] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Thorbjorn Brundtland Originally by: Lord DarkStar from what ive heard you cannot put a loaded ship into a carriers maint bay,aka cannot put haulers into it to do normal 0.0 transport ... Does this also count for Rorquals Ship Maintenance Bays? Yes. On SiSi. On TQ you still can currently, but if those changes go live then .... IS ccp ********? The purpose of the rorqual is to bring in mining equipment and take out ore? HTF will you take out ore if you can't put loaded ships into the maintence bays?? god they are making this game more and more unplayable. Chribba, how you mean you get a 130ishk m3 cargo bay? I have 3 t2 cargo rigs and (I am oog so based on memory) 3 t2 cargo expanders and I get a 63.2 km3 cargo bay and a 10k corporate hanger. What are you doing different????
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.11.12 06:41:00 - [122] Originally by: Adm Tecumseh Chribba, how you mean you get a 130ishk m3 cargo bay? I have 3 t2 cargo rigs and (I am oog so based on memory) 3 t2 cargo expanders and I get a 63.2 km3 cargo bay and a 10k corporate hanger. What are you doing different???? Roq. base cargo bay has been increased from 20 k base to 40k base on SiSi.
Adm Tecumseh Caldari Lumatron Productions	Posted - 2007.11.12 07:42:00 - [123] Originally by: Carniflex Roq. base cargo bay has been increased from 20 k base to 40k base on SiSi. Very nice. Still concerned that the no cargo in haulers thing will make this more or less useless as per it's original use intent. Perhaps they could consider an code modification that would allow for ore compressed and/or uncompressed to be in the haulers in the rorqual.
El'essar Viocragh Minmatar FSK23	Posted - 2007.11.12 10:22:00 - [124] The Rorqual base cargo size was increased because it is no longer possible to store ore inside the barges. -- [17:47] <Mephysto> its dead, jim
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.11.13 13:10:00 - [125] Any indication on the capital T2 component BPO cost yet ? If they're particularly expensive these are going to be rather exclusive for quite a while.
Quutar Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.11.13 15:51:00 - [126] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=635285 I did some math, comparing the hauling cost of the different jump freighters, figured I would post the summary here since not everybody checks out the game development forum (with perfect skills) Rorqual /w t2 rigs... 7.02 m3 per isotope Rorqual 6.48 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Fenrir 6.34 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Providence 6.02 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Obelisk 5.74 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Charon 5.64 m3 per isotope the only advantage that the jump freighters have is a single large bay (multiple trips with the Rorqual, which might save LO for your cyno pilot), and the ability to use jump bridges when needed. Also possibly the ability to jump out of high-sec directly to 0.0, bypassing the choke-point systems and, the charon is the SUV of jump ships. Quutar Research Services Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10
maarud Knight of Anubis	Posted - 2007.11.13 23:35:00 - [127] Originally by: Quutar Edited by: Quutar on 13/11/2007 16:34:55 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=635285 I did some math, comparing the hauling cost of the different jump freighters, figured I would post the summary here since not everybody checks out the game development forum (with perfect freighter/jump freighter skills and 4 in jump fuel conservation) Rorqual /w t2 rigs... 7.02 m3 per isotope Rorqual 6.48 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Fenrir 6.34 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Providence 6.02 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Obelisk 5.74 m3 per isotope Tech 2 Charon 5.64 m3 per isotope the only advantage that the jump freighters have is a single large bay (multiple trips with the Rorqual, which might save LO for your cyno pilot), and the ability to use jump bridges when needed. Also possibly the ability to jump out of high-sec directly to 0.0, bypassing the choke-point systems and, the charon is the SUV of jump ships. You can't jump in ot out of hi-sec, you have to enter low sec to jump. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member <t20> i'd rather have a python in my pants than a sleipnir
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony	Posted - 2007.11.13 23:38:00 - [128] Need... more... freighter... bpos... _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
Trader Sandy	Posted - 2007.11.14 12:10:00 - [129] Originally by: maarud You can't jump in ot out of hi-sec, you have to enter low sec to jump. Actually, you CAN jump FROM high-sec INTO 0.0 sec with a jump ship / carrier.. The trick is, you CAN'T jump from low-sec into High-sec as you can't open a cyno in high-sec.. Remember, a LOT of people were building capitals in high-sec POS's before CCP offlined them with the Rorqual.
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.16 06:09:00 - [130] well what i have seen til now about the jump freighters and the discussion about the costs show one thing very drastic, if you are not in an big alliances that is wealthy and sitting on hundreds of billions isk then you can forget the jump freighter, every other capital is nerfed and smaller alliances and corps can only tear down their pos, is that what ccp wants ? are the smaller groups in eve the rebalancing collaterals as always ? that cant be... i want to tell ccp this, reduce the building costs down to 1,5-2 billion isk, raise the cargo space at least about 100 k m¦ up to 350 k m¦ , i can live with it if that goes over jump freighter skill. that freighter level 4 should be enough to skill jump freighter is already great and please dont raise it again on freighter level 5. those incredible requirements of components that are worth several billion isk, and quite more than a smaller player group can afford are taking away the option for them to run pos in 0.0 space as they do now, that cant be what you ccp guys want, there is no talk about claiming sov and such things, i talk about brave players running pos to do business and sell moon minerals, those guys who help to keep the eve industry running. and dont think pos business is a isk printing buisness, that time is over, we have to struggle for survive then everyone else. but the upcoming nerf for carriers and rorqual and the fact that a jump freighter will be hellish expensive for months will kick many of pos owners out of business, who have worked hard and spend time of their limited lifetime sitting at pc, bringing up the isk to put their pos up to work and sustain them with fuel. if you ccp guys really respect us and dont only want our $$ then you will overwork the jump freighter that even smaller player groups can afford them or a single player after a while. to say it once again and short : 1,5-2 mrd isk, the cargo space should be around 350 k m¦, same jump range as carrier, i can live with freighter level 4, jump freighter and jump drive op, adv spaceship command level 3 as required skills as example. the additional cargo space can go over freighter and jump freighter skill, so that it will be 350 k m¦ with both on level 5. i can only ask and demand one more time to reduce the costs for the jump freighter, or you will have only the big alliances left and the other one have to give up, if you want the opposite then make the jump freighter cheaper. if you think making jump freighter making expensive do the right thing, then you hit only the wrong ppl again, and that makes bad atmosphere and make ccp loosing $$. so would be a win for ccp and for us to overlook jump freighter again and make the changes needed. MfG ottman
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.11.16 07:21:00 - [131] Originally by: Ottman smaller alliances and corps can only tear down their pos, is that what ccp wants ? Riiiight... because fuel for a single large POS for an entire week CAN'T be squeezed into a single rigged Iteron V, huh ? Or, you know, two-three unrigged Bestowers ? The changes to "0.0 POS logistics" were made the way they were so that they encourage the SMALL guys and the VERY LARGE guys, and shaft the MEDIUM-sized ones. Why shaft meds and promote smalls and huge, you ask ? Simple... because the huge ones have the needed sov.lev. for jump portals (so they can easily move a smallish fleet of industrials around their territory, but ONLY in their well-established territory, which means they will shrink a bit and try to get a "jumpline" to as close to empire as possible, so that they don't need to use jumpfreighters TOO much), while the small ones can occupy more easily territory abandoned by the huge ones, and especially the medium ones (which will have the most problems overall). It promotes territory shrinkage (occupy only what you can afford to maintain, as opposed to the "spread everywhere" approach until now), it makes POS-spam warfare into enemy territory a LOT LESS feasable (which is also arguably a good thing), it promotes med-sized group mergers (either between themselves, or with larger entities, for logistics assistance) and frees up space for the really small enterprises who wouldn't even have dreamed of being able to plant a med POS (for instance) into a barely-half-decent 0.0 system (because it would have been mega-spammed by some mid/large sized group who barely ever gets there once in a while to refuel and carry moonmining stuff out). The jumpfreighters are actually concesions for the med-sized guys, since you can still fit multiple industrial's worth of cargo, and STILL be able to cyno around (instead of having to use gates and avoid gatecamps like the small guys will have to). So, I'm still waiting for any REAL downsides to this change. And no, I don't count "omg they nerfed this and that" as an actual downside... it's just a small change in status quo. As they say, adapt or die. _ Char creation \| Stacknerfs \| Invention \|CNVTF
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.16 12:22:00 - [132] well the jump freighter planned as t2 freighter is a bit to much, the costs are in no relation to the use, even a blind man would "see" that, there is a thing that is planned not well enough by ccp and i have every right to post and show that up, this will be my only answer about my posting, any further talk i will only do with someone of ccp to cut off any flaming that is not useful. MfG ottman
Darth Felin	Posted - 2007.11.16 15:02:00 - [133] Originally by: Ottman well the jump freighter planned as t2 freighter is a bit to much, the costs are in no relation to the use, even a blind man would "see" that, there is a thing that is planned not well enough by ccp and i have every right to post and show that up, this will be my only answer about my posting, any further talk i will only do with someone of ccp to cut off any flaming that is not useful. MfG ottman Then I am blind, because I do not "see" Jump freighter's price around 3 bills as too much?
Artmedis Valben Gallente Lobster of Babel	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:16:00 - [134] With the beefing up of decryptors as they are on sisi atm, cost of inventing and building a jump freighter is around 3 billion. Sure the first ones will cost twice as much, and if demand is high enough they will continue to sell for 5-6 billion for quite some time. I plan to offer an upgrade service, i.e, bring materials and pay for upgrade of BSs or Freighters. :) ___________________________________________ Selling PERFECT PRINTS of all seeded T1 BPOs. Complete T1 BPC set
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.16 16:37:00 - [135] we all know what happens with price when the need will be high, and the argument its build with t2 components will raise the price too, we know how mad the market can be about that, that wont be stay low about 3-6 billion isk, i simply cant believe that after more than 2 years playing eve, have seen too much horses puking... all the signs til now show that those jump freighters will be awesome expensive because ccp inflict a need like never done before. i dont wonder if i see 12-15 billion isk or more in the first months if that jump freighter comes like the last screenshots have shown it. MfG ottman
Stirling Finloth Minmatar Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.17 12:25:00 - [136] What interests me is how much the Capital T2 Component BPO's and how much they will cost.... If I go in for it then that will be a major factor, the ISK sink from the component BPO's could be massivse
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.17 15:22:00 - [137] well if the jump freighter design will not changed then just give us a jump drive modul that can be fitted on industrials and transport ships, just handle it like cloak, giving a jump drive modul 10 k cpu requirements and industrial and transport ships a role bonus that reduce the requirement about 95-99% then to ensure only these ships can use them. call it industrial jump drive or something like that, just give those the ability to do their stuff who will not be able to afford the huge amount of isk that will be needed to buy a t2 freighter called jump freighter MfG ottman
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition Drunken N Disorderly	Posted - 2007.11.17 22:06:00 - [138] Originally by: Stirling Finloth What interests me is how much the Capital T2 Component BPO's and how much they will cost.... If I go in for it then that will be a major factor, the ISK sink from the component BPO's could be massivse invention only, so no bpo's. yes, its going to cost a fortune.
Tek'a Rain Gallente Isis Technologies	Posted - 2007.11.18 03:58:00 - [139] Originally by: Feng Schui Originally by: Stirling Finloth What interests me is how much the Capital T2 Component BPO's and how much they will cost.... If I go in for it then that will be a major factor, the ISK sink from the component BPO's could be massivse invention only, so no bpo's. yes, its going to cost a fortune. no. Originally by: Benvie Why would you think that capital tech 2 components would need to be invented? Regular tech 2 component bpos are bought from NPC corps................. Originally by: Dominique Vasilkovsky I'm just back from Fanfest and got some news about the jump freighters after attending the roundtables discussions. First of all, the jump freighters will be able to use stargates so they can enter highsec. The target construction cost is 3.6bill + invention. They will need T2 capital components for construction and those will be released as BPOs and use the current lowend/unused reactions from moon mining to balance up that part of the market. The skill requirement will be freighter 4 not freighter 5. I think that cover most about the T2 freighters.
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.18 09:05:00 - [140] 3,6 billion isk plus invention costs are too expensive, if ccp has planned to use that design to reduce the space the alliances have under control, that will not work, they have sov, can use jump bridges and that means it only hit those who try to work their way up, and as i found out there are interests that ccp will stay on these changes so ccp do exactly what they want, elimating every concurrents of the big alliances, thats not a simple nerf anymore. its a wardec to those players who want to play eve the way they want it. and those 3,6 billion isk are the pure production costs, plus those of invention. you know as good as i that you can multiply that with 5 or 6 if it comes worse. that will make it far from affordable and ppl having pos in the npc regions of 0.0 cant suystain them anymore. though it affect "only" those who are not in big alliances dont think that are only few, that will have its impact on market, you have the chance to help to change that or you will scream, whine and go havoc in forums later because the prices for stuff you need will go havoc too. capital freight logistics is essential for eve economy, and to keep things running there is a affordable solution needed, the current t2 freighter design called jump freighter is definetly far from affordable. MfG ottman
MercedesBenz House Of Cards	Posted - 2007.11.18 09:40:00 - [141] OMG people, quit your *****ing already! Yeah the t2 freighter is going to be expensive to invent, but ship invention was never meant to be always 'affordable' and cheap, getting into cruiser invention itself takes at least 900m just to get into and even then you're not guaranteed any profit, invention is high risk game, same will go for jump freighter invention. And for all those that are whining about how the actual freighter is going to cost to much, just stop it, this is a TECH TWO SHIP, the price WILL be insane when they are initially released, but as more and more start being invented and supply exceeds demand, which is will, the prices will fall, and soon they will be as common as dreads and carriers. And just an FYI to those who are complaining that only BIG alliance can buy these things, keep in mind that it's not just alliances that have tens of billions of isk ready to go. And if you still feel CCP is just making the game 'unplayable' you can go ahead and start contracting all your stuff to me now and just quit eve.
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.18 13:13:00 - [142] Originally by: MercedesBenz OMG people, quit your *****ing already! Yeah the t2 freighter is going to be expensive to invent, but ship invention was never meant to be always 'affordable' and cheap, getting into cruiser invention itself takes at least 900m just to get into and even then you're not guaranteed any profit, invention is high risk game, same will go for jump freighter invention. And for all those that are whining about how the actual freighter is going to cost to much, just stop it, this is a TECH TWO SHIP, the price WILL be insane when they are initially released, but as more and more start being invented and supply exceeds demand, which is will, the prices will fall, and soon they will be as common as dreads and carriers. And just an FYI to those who are complaining that only BIG alliance can buy these things, keep in mind that it's not just alliances that have tens of billions of isk ready to go. And if you still feel CCP is just making the game 'unplayable' you can go ahead and start contracting all your stuff to me now and just quit eve. what have we here ? a ganker ? a griefer ? i dont know and i dont care, you will cry and whine like everyone else if t2 stuff will get more and more expensive because of the domino effect a t2 ship like the jump freighter will have. well i will just make more profit than before , but i am not only a selfish one, i think about other ppl too, normally i dont touch the forums because i know too well from other forums that there are always flamer who try to prevent any discussion about things. and we talk about a t2 ship that replace a t1 ship in the same role, i know life is not fair why should it in a game different, but that kind of thinking you have can you bite in your back, dont forget that MfG ottman
MercedesBenz House Of Cards	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:14:00 - [143] Edited by: MercedesBenz on 18/11/2007 20:14:56 Originally by: Ottman Originally by: MercedesBenz OMG people, quit your *****ing already! Yeah the t2 freighter is going to be expensive to invent, but ship invention was never meant to be always 'affordable' and cheap, getting into cruiser invention itself takes at least 900m just to get into and even then you're not guaranteed any profit, invention is high risk game, same will go for jump freighter invention. And for all those that are whining about how the actual freighter is going to cost to much, just stop it, this is a TECH TWO SHIP, the price WILL be insane when they are initially released, but as more and more start being invented and supply exceeds demand, which is will, the prices will fall, and soon they will be as common as dreads and carriers. And just an FYI to those who are complaining that only BIG alliance can buy these things, keep in mind that it's not just alliances that have tens of billions of isk ready to go. And if you still feel CCP is just making the game 'unplayable' you can go ahead and start contracting all your stuff to me now and just quit eve. what have we here ? a ganker ? a griefer ? i dont know and i dont care, you will cry and whine like everyone else if t2 stuff will get more and more expensive because of the domino effect a t2 ship like the jump freighter will have. well i will just make more profit than before , but i am not only a selfish one, i think about other ppl too, normally i dont touch the forums because i know too well from other forums that there are always flamer who try to prevent any discussion about things. and we talk about a t2 ship that replace a t1 ship in the same role, i know life is not fair why should it in a game different, but that kind of thinking you have can you bite in your back, dont forget that MfG ottman Why would I whine if t2 stuff got more expensive, you totaly missed the point of the post, t2 stuff is SUPPOST to be expensive, I have no problem with that, especially considering I own a few t2 bpo's of myself. And if the jump freighter caused other t2 products to increase in price, I'll be laughing all the way to the bank becuae it when increase my own profit margin.
Forge Seer	Posted - 2007.11.18 20:21:00 - [144] Originally by: Ottman Originally by: MercedesBenz OMG people, quit your *****ing already! Yeah the t2 freighter is going to be expensive to invent, but ship invention was never meant to be always 'affordable' and cheap, getting into cruiser invention itself takes at least 900m just to get into and even then you're not guaranteed any profit, invention is high risk game, same will go for jump freighter invention. And for all those that are whining about how the actual freighter is going to cost to much, just stop it, this is a TECH TWO SHIP, the price WILL be insane when they are initially released, but as more and more start being invented and supply exceeds demand, which is will, the prices will fall, and soon they will be as common as dreads and carriers. And just an FYI to those who are complaining that only BIG alliance can buy these things, keep in mind that it's not just alliances that have tens of billions of isk ready to go. And if you still feel CCP is just making the game 'unplayable' you can go ahead and start contracting all your stuff to me now and just quit eve. what have we here ? a ganker ? a griefer ? i dont know and i dont care, you will cry and whine like everyone else if t2 stuff will get more and more expensive because of the domino effect a t2 ship like the jump freighter will have. well i will just make more profit than before , but i am not only a selfish one, i think about other ppl too, normally i dont touch the forums because i know too well from other forums that there are always flamer who try to prevent any discussion about things. and we talk about a t2 ship that replace a t1 ship in the same role, i know life is not fair why should it in a game different, but that kind of thinking you have can you bite in your back, dont forget that MfG ottman ACtually I think it was you that was cying about invention costs in your previous post dude.
Quutar Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2007.11.19 00:36:00 - [145] I was wrong on my fuel numbers... forgot that JFC is a flat value, not a percent. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=635285 Rorqual /w t2 rigs 7.02 m3 per isotope (with out GSC) Tech 2 Fenrir 4.70 per isotope (perfect skills) Tech 2 Providence 4.39 per isotope (perfect skills) Tech 2 Obelisk 4.12 per isotope (perfect skills) Tech 2 Charon 4.00 per isotope (perfect skills) Quutar Research Services Amarr Outpost BPCs ME:10
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.19 12:41:00 - [146] well to make situation crappy for all not only implent a t2 freighter/jump freighter, just remove jump bridge and every thing is shiny because all ppl have the same trouble and not only a few... hehe MfG ottman
gordon861 Minmatar Head Insurance Services	Posted - 2007.11.19 16:52:00 - [147] Instead of basing the Tech 2 Freighter on the existing T1 version. Why don't CCP bring out a teir 2 freighter for each race which is smaller than the current ones but with better resists or a couple of slots for hardeners and a little faster. They could then base the Tech 2 Freighter on these ships which would allow them to bring in a new BPO with copy times that will allow you to try and invent more than one a month. It would also fill the role that a lot of people ask for which is a mid-sized freighter for general use. Originally by: CCP Arkanon I frown on employees being power players to the extent that their gameplay results in any sort of domination over others. I donÆt believe CCP employees should run the EVE universe.
maarud Knight of Anubis	Posted - 2007.11.19 18:06:00 - [148] Originally by: MercedesBenz Edited by: MercedesBenz on 18/11/2007 20:14:56 Originally by: Ottman Originally by: MercedesBenz OMG people, quit your ***ing already! Yeah the t2 freighter is going to be expensive to invent, but ship invention was never meant to be always 'affordable' and cheap, getting into cruiser invention itself takes at least 900m just to get into and even then you're not guaranteed any profit, invention is high risk game, same will go for jump freighter invention. And for all those that are whining about how the actual freighter is going to cost to much, just stop it, this is a TECH TWO SHIP, the price WILL be insane when they are initially released, but as more and more start being invented and supply exceeds demand, which is will, the prices will fall, and soon they will be as common as dreads and carriers. And just an FYI to those who are complaining that only BIG alliance can buy these things, keep in mind that it's not just alliances that have tens of billions of isk ready to go. And if you still feel CCP is just making the game 'unplayable' you can go ahead and start contracting all your stuff to me now and just quit eve. what have we here ? a ganker ? a griefer ? i dont know and i dont care, you will cry and whine like everyone else if t2 stuff will get more and more expensive because of the domino effect a t2 ship like the jump freighter will have. well i will just make more profit than before , but i am not only a selfish one, i think about other ppl too, normally i dont touch the forums because i know too well from other forums that there are always flamer who try to prevent any discussion about things. and we talk about a t2 ship that replace a t1 ship in the same role, i know life is not fair why should it in a game different, but that kind of thinking you have can you bite in your back, dont forget that MfG ottman Why would I whine if t2 stuff got more expensive, you totaly missed the point of the post, t2 stuff is SUPPOST to be expensive, I have no problem with that, especially considering I own a few t2 bpo's of myself. And if the jump freighter caused other t2 products to increase in price, I'll be laughing all the way to the bank becuae it when increase my own profit margin. The majority of people here aren't ***ing that its expensive to make a hauler. Its just that anybody with 1/2 a brain will just use a rorq to jump to 0.0 At the moment theres no real choice to choose taking a T2 jump frieghter over a rorq. Maarud. Proudly a Ex-BYDI member <t20> i'd rather have a python in my pants than a sleipnir
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.20 07:50:00 - [149] well going for rorqual is one thing, but must no mean not to discuss a better solution about the t2 freighter/jump freighter problem. the problem is, the t2 design of the jump freighter hits only a few ppl, and not all. there are two ways to solve it, one is making jump freighter a t1 design, an own ship class or implent another t1 ship class usable and affordable. or the other way, if t2 freighter/jump freighter design will not change then remove jump bridge out of eve to make the rebalance that way complete. when nerf, then hit all, and not only those who live in npc 0.0 regions, thats it. MfG ottman
Forge Seer	Posted - 2007.11.20 18:38:00 - [150] Edited by: Forge Seer on 20/11/2007 18:39:06 Originally by: Ottman well going for rorqual is one thing, but must no mean not to discuss a better solution about the t2 freighter/jump freighter problem. the problem is, the t2 design of the jump freighter hits only a few ppl, and not all. there are two ways to solve it, one is making jump freighter a t1 design, an own ship class or implent another t1 ship class usable and affordable. or the other way, if t2 freighter/jump freighter design will not change then remove jump bridge out of eve to make the rebalance that way complete. when nerf, then hit all, and not only those who live in npc 0.0 regions, thats it. MfG ottman affordability is for the weak, I say make the jump freighter cost 5b
Rawne Karrde An Tir Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2007.11.20 20:55:00 - [151] Seriously Ottman you gotta stop whining. At this point there is something you just have to accept. Jump freighters ARE T2. Being t2 you should then stop whining since CCP has targeted a 3.6 bil build cost. Other t2 ships are 10x's or higher the cost than their t1 ship, so just be glad the build cost isn't 10 bil or 15 bil. These days even 5 bil isn't much. Those players who already fly capital ships can easily afford a jump freighter. So please, stop your whining, accept that the jump freighters are going to be t2 and start planning for it. If you can't afford it, well thats the way it goes, not everyone is meant to be able to have this ships without putting out some effort first.
MercedesBenz House Of Cards	Posted - 2007.11.21 07:27:00 - [152] Originally by: Rawne Karrde Seriously Ottman you gotta stop whining. At this point there is something you just have to accept. Jump freighters ARE T2. Being t2 you should then stop whining since CCP has targeted a 3.6 bil build cost. Other t2 ships are 10x's or higher the cost than their t1 ship, so just be glad the build cost isn't 10 bil or 15 bil. These days even 5 bil isn't much. Those players who already fly capital ships can easily afford a jump freighter. So please, stop your whining, accept that the jump freighters are going to be t2 and start planning for it. If you can't afford it, well thats the way it goes, not everyone is meant to be able to have this ships without putting out some effort first. OMG /SIGNED!!!!
Ottman	Posted - 2007.11.22 11:54:00 - [153] Edited by: Ottman on 22/11/2007 11:54:36 yeah of course, and that this change is unbalanced like anything i have never seen one before i shall ignore yes ? if the t2 freighter or jump freighter is coming, it hit only those settled in npc regions in 0.0 space. ccp has done the half job, not the complete. okay i have nothing against it if t2 freighter/jump freighter remains as its designed now, but then please should ccp remove the jump bridges. then the nerf hits all and not only a few. then everyone has to spend the isk for the jump freighter not only those who cant bypass it over sov and jump bridge . then i will stop "whining" as you called it. MfG ottman
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.22 12:15:00 - [154] Originally by: Artmedis Valben With the beefing up of decryptors as they are on sisi atm, cost of inventing and building a jump freighter is around 3 billion. Sure the first ones will cost twice as much, and if demand is high enough they will continue to sell for 5-6 billion for quite some time. I plan to offer an upgrade service, i.e, bring materials and pay for upgrade of BSs or Freighters. :) Confirming this figure - most of the variation in price stems from the racial carbide needed to build them; some could be build for as little as 2.8bn. I predict prices around the 4bn mark in the long term, though. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Casca Volaire Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:09:00 - [155] Anyone know what the final skill tree to get to Jump Freighters looks like? Or at least what the latest is on test server?
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:41:00 - [156] Originally by: Patch notes Jump Freighters Jump freighters are the latest generation of freighter... ... These ships still retain the ability to use normal stargates, and can be constructed in high security space. It's nice of the devs to confirm this, as no-one has managed to invent one on the test server yet afaik, what with the new mirrors and the fact that it takes about a month to produce a BPC... My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Valia Deluri Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:08:00 - [157] so Jump Drive Cal will affect this ship.. nice. Code of Deluri Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I cannot accept, and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those people I had to kill today.
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:51:00 - [158] So, we still don't know what it will take to actually build it tho right? Cap ship const, lvl...3,4? Industrial(?) const lvl? Racial Starship const...3/4? Im sure the cap racials will have there own set as well..3/4? Anyone? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:13:00 - [159] Capital Ship Construction IV Industry V Racial Starship Engineering IV Mechanical Engineering IV My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.11.29 23:12:00 - [160] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Capital Ship Construction IV Industry V Racial Starship Engineering IV Mechanical Engineering IV thank you... Im surprised there's no industrial const req, but..whatever, im all set... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Casca Volaire Gallente Galactic Extensive Enterprises	Posted - 2007.11.30 04:14:00 - [161] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 29/11/2007 20:47:12 Originally by: Patch notes Jump Freighters Jump freighters are the latest generation of freighter... ... These ships still retain the ability to use normal stargates, and can be constructed in high security space. It's nice of the devs to confirm this, as no-one has managed to invent one on the test server yet afaik, what with the new mirrors and the fact that it takes about a month to produce a BPC... Also, skills: Freighter IV Jump Freighters I (needs Industry V and Advanced Spaceship Command IV) Jump Drive Calibration I Is it Jump Drive CALIBRATION or OPERATION???
Fatsam Madhatters Inc. Enuma Elish.	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:55:00 - [162] How much are the T2 capital component BPOs? Anyone know?
Andrus Delai e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:49:00 - [163] Originally by: Casca Volaire Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 29/11/2007 20:47:12 Originally by: Patch notes Jump Freighters Jump freighters are the latest generation of freighter... ... These ships still retain the ability to use normal stargates, and can be constructed in high security space. It's nice of the devs to confirm this, as no-one has managed to invent one on the test server yet afaik, what with the new mirrors and the fact that it takes about a month to produce a BPC... Also, skills: Freighter IV Jump Freighters I (needs Industry V and Advanced Spaceship Command IV) Jump Drive Calibration I Is it Jump Drive CALIBRATION or OPERATION??? It's Calibration. Apparently it's harder to jump a Freighter than a Dread or Carrier.
Ms Vanity Caldari Hulk Industries	Posted - 2007.12.03 09:41:00 - [164] The build requirements for Jump Freighters have changed on Sisi. Basically there is about 20% more Capital T2 components (eg Capital Antimater Reactor unit) and less Capital Components - only Capital Jump Drive is needed now, no more Armor, Propulsion, Construction Parts or cargo bay.
Gal'tashec Gallente Raptus Regaliter Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.03 10:16:00 - [165] Yes, that was a pleasant surprise, wasn't it --- Vice CEO of Raptus Regaliter Always in the lookout for good pilots and corporations.
Excora Harkonnen Occam's Razor Combine Insurgency	Posted - 2007.12.04 03:15:00 - [166] Originally by: Ms Vanity The build requirements for Jump Freighters have changed on Sisi. Basically there is about 20% more Capital T2 components (eg Capital Antimater Reactor unit) and less Capital Components - only Capital Jump Drive is needed now, no more Armor, Propulsion, Construction Parts or cargo bay. Very good news

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