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Heavy dictors can scramble motherships in low sec

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 9 post(s)
Elliott Manchild omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:09:00 - [61] Edited by: Elliott Manchild on 07/11/2007 22:15:41 MS in low sec needed to be nerfed. I know that EVERY one knows that. Just make the HIC disruptor thing work in low sec only. If it works in 0,0 as well your making a ship thats worth alot of ISK that can ALREADY be tackled easily even easier to catch. People will just totaly stop using them. I have a MS because I want to use it on frontlines. These ships have aways been impossible to scramble why make them so now. Of course i do agree the HIC should be able to tackle MoM's in low sec. (Not so sure about titans as titans cant defend them selfs in low sec) But no way should a HIC be able to speed tank while running this mod.
Cythrawl Caldari Central Defiance	Posted - 2007.11.07 22:13:00 - [62] Originally by: Orar Ironfist Edited by: Orar Ironfist on 07/11/2007 20:47:13 Im sorry if this sounds like flaming cause i really dont want it to be but lets envision the scimitar HIC scenario you just painted(low sec style): MOM pilot: OOO broadsword seems to have tackled me and there seems to be a scimitar remote repping him.....mmmmm two easy kills time. Support engage the HIC while i deal with this scimitar..... HIC: Hehehehe this is gonna be so easy alls i gotta do is hold down this mom till my mini cap fleet lands right on top of him and we go home with a fat mom kill.....ohh support is engaging....Lol a rapier hes gonna get so popped if he does any....crap im dual webbed and painted and the mom is repping him so he wont die.....No matter my tank can hold with my supp....crap he popped 20 t2 sentries.....my support is warpin off......oh crap almighty he just sicked 20 t2 heavies on me and now support is engagin EEe****k!!!! crap im going down annddd.......Got my pod out wewt! LOGISTICS PILOT: You wha..?? But im already coming back in!!! crap well i can just warp out atleast...nvm sentries again and im going down too.....damn... Creativity + support + well formed mom pilot= wont have to worry bout setups like that You seriously need to spread your text out a bit more... But that's the exact truth. ALSO: A passively tanked broadsword/onyx will have almost no cap regen so trick then is to send a fleet of neut drones at the broadsword/onyx pilot and watch his cap go away, or alternately, his speed tank. Even 20 light neut drones takes 100 cap every 6 seconds and go 3.2km/s. Those would keep up with the normal, non-stupidly expensive speed tanks. 2 officer neuts would do the trick of wrecking a speed tank pretty fast in conjunction. A couple web drones in with those neut drones, catch the broadsword when he makes a mistake and looses mwd for a second or two. No cap = no scramb = warp away/kill them .:. Originally by:** Krazy Bitsch Originally by: Virtuality In before the first troll. i do believe you are too late for this....
Ipod Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:47:00 - [63] So wait, its been said that a mothership can be scrammed, a Titan can be too?
Hopeless EQUILIBRIUM Caldari W33D Corp.	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:38:00 - [64] Edited by: Hopeless EQUILIBRIUM on 08/11/2007 00:38:22 The dark will fall upon the MS pirates muwhahahaha
Cur Dawn of a new Empire Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:17:00 - [65] Edited by: Cur on 08/11/2007 01:17:10 What happens to a carrier that is sensor dampened? What happens to a mothership that is sensor dampened? Probably not worth the price tag, but that's what you get with diminishing returns. I'd give both super capitals a tank boost to compensate for the nerfs, but nothing else. "What is best in life?" "To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."
Camael Kuro Lillyfields	Posted - 2007.11.08 01:35:00 - [66] Edited by: Camael Kuro on 08/11/2007 01:37:14 Originally by: Chomapuraku does it matter if a solo broadsword can tackle a solo mothership? no. why? because you're not supposed to be able to do ANYTHING with a solo mothership. the rich boys think that 20 billion isk should buy them an IWIN button, but tough ****. you're not supposed to do anything with a solo capital, period. capitals are designed to survive by gang support and gang support alone. what's that? you're just moving it along a cyno highway with your one b-bird alt? what are you doing outside a dead-end system or without alt scouts in all adjacent systems? hell, even if the broadsword does manage to tackle your mom, you still have a lag time in which their support has to travel to that system, and your support should sure as hell be a lot closer than theirs. How does a HIC have any more of a right than MS to be largely invincible solo in this situation by using a speed-tank? Sure, they should be able to tackle super-caps in some way, that is their role.. but there should definitely be some kind of risk involved unless you have some support to protect the HIC while doing that... Unless of course you're just looking for the next FOTM win-button.
Daelin Blackleaf Aliastra	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:25:00 - [67] Originally by: Orar Ironfist Edited by: Orar Ironfist on 07/11/2007 20:08:14 Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf This is all great news, especially for shield tanking gangs and those tired of lo-sec MS However there is one problem. /me walks over and hammers the last nail in the Blockade Runners coffin. You do realize that makes no sense yes? If your speaking low-sec then that doesnt matter good nav skills+blockade runner+ a t2 i-stab or two and you align faster then anyone besides a double sensor-boosting bs could lock(and with the built in wcs you still get away) And if your talkin about 0.0 throw an mwd on it and you can get back to the gate and jump/warp fatser then the dictor/ gang with anchored bubble could kill you. Every ship in this game is designed for a purpose,(this is not really directed at you but at the people whining about the hic)Just because your too blinded by your own argument and cant see said purpose doesnt make the devs wrong and untrustworthy. EDIT: ignore my bad sp3llin Glad it's not directed at me, I like the HIC in it's current iteration. However by your logic any cruiser with a pair of i-stabs in immune to gate-camps since they share similar mass and agility stats with blockade runners. I think you'll find that isn't the case. Anyway, it's a side-issue and I don't expect it to affect the HiC, more that the blockade runner should perhaps be looked at again since it is barely used as it is and the last scrap of usefulness it had (being able to run very small camps) just got taken away.
Samurai XII	Posted - 2007.11.08 07:22:00 - [68] Ok, so uber nerf for MS again. CCP fix MS so they only cost 4-5 billion isk. No point in them costing a ** LOAD OF **NG ISk AND THEN SOME if any fcktard in a interdictor or heavy interdictor be able to perma scramble one. Seriously, didn't people slap the sht out of you guys enough at fanfest? I sure hope i did. EPIC FAIL. All three accounts staying canceled. No you can't have my stuff shtbags, you probably can't even use it. Come back in 3-4 years. ______________________ Just another cool alt.
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.08 09:59:00 - [69] Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf Originally by: Orar Ironfist Edited by: Orar Ironfist on 07/11/2007 20:08:14 Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf This is all great news, especially for shield tanking gangs and those tired of lo-sec MS However there is one problem. /me walks over and hammers the last nail in the Blockade Runners coffin. You do realize that makes no sense yes? If your speaking low-sec then that doesnt matter good nav skills+blockade runner+ a t2 i-stab or two and you align faster then anyone besides a double sensor-boosting bs could lock(and with the built in wcs you still get away) And if your talkin about 0.0 throw an mwd on it and you can get back to the gate and jump/warp fatser then the dictor/ gang with anchored bubble could kill you. Every ship in this game is designed for a purpose,(this is not really directed at you but at the people whining about the hic)Just because your too blinded by your own argument and cant see said purpose doesnt make the devs wrong and untrustworthy. EDIT: ignore my bad sp3llin Glad it's not directed at me, I like the HIC in it's current iteration. However by your logic any cruiser with a pair of i-stabs in immune to gate-camps since they share similar mass and agility stats with blockade runners. I think you'll find that isn't the case. Anyway, it's a side-issue and I don't expect it to affect the HiC, more that the blockade runner should perhaps be looked at again since it is barely used as it is and the last scrap of usefulness it had (being able to run very small camps) just got taken away. Did you ever fly a blokade runner? I can get my prorator below 0.2 agility. Even a polycarbon i-stabbed vagabond is not even close to that. A blokaderunner warps the same time he decloaks. There is only one way to catch one in lowsec. An instalocking HIC. This would need very heavy remote sensor boosting to be possible. Now you jump into this camp and see that it is boosted. You simply reaproach. Nothing can stop you unless they have another bunch of remote boosters on a huginn. If they got a remote boosted broadsword and aremote boosted huginn they prolly just deserve the kill.
LordPhoenix Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:33:00 - [70] Originally by: Samurai XII Ok, so uber nerf for MS again. CCP fix MS so they only cost 4-5 billion isk. No point in them costing a ** LOAD OF **NG ISk AND THEN SOME if any fcktard in a interdictor or heavy interdictor be able to perma scramble one. Seriously, didn't people slap the sht out of you guys enough at fanfest? I sure hope i did. EPIC FAIL. All three accounts staying canceled. No you can't have my stuff shtbags, you probably can't even use it. Come back in 3-4 years. QFT. Seriously! All I hear in this thread is whine whine whine! Adapt and move on ffs! This game is definately going downhill!
Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 11:46:00 - [71] I'm hoping teh HIC will be the only Dictor that can hold down a Mothership - even in 0.0. If you think about it logically, if an unscripted HIC can't hold down a SuperCap then a normal Dictor shouldn't be able to. Otherwise we now have 2 classes of ship that can hold down a SuperCap and that would be ridiculous. But having the HIC as teh only ship that can hold one down but only when scripted brings some kind of balance to the game. And make teh Warp Field Generator use Graviton Physics 4 but the script should have Graviton Physics 5 as a requirement making it the only super skilled that can hold down a SuperCap in a pretty rare ship. That would balance things further and make perfect sense. I really don't have anything better than nerf signatures (like moderating CAOD but I'm scared of Goons) - Valorem
Fenderson Finite Horizon Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2007.11.08 13:47:00 - [72] Originally by: Fenderson Originally by: CCP Atropos Currently the Focused scripts nullify the negative side effects of the Heavy Interdictors, which does indeed allow you to speed tank the Broadsword. However, as with everything on Sisi, it may change. What about remote reps? can heavy dictors be remore repped with the focus script in use? o gawd i dont feel like wading thru all the whines... someone please tell me if the above question has been answered. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?
Helevorn Feanaro	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:05:00 - [73] I think the blockade runner issue is actually quite general. At the moment a fully stabbed Itty 5 has a very good chance of evading 1 or 2 person gatecamps. If a HIC can lock down any hauler other than a fully rigged blockade runner, guaranteed, then no hauler will venture into lo-sec again. I am all for risk vs. reward. I also believe that if you fit your ship to withstand warp scramblers, and thereby giving up cargo space/agility, you should have a better chance of withstanding warp scramplers. The HIC is effectively an infinite-value warp scrambler. No counter to this is available. Use a scout/alt? I do. But why should I need to meta-game to counter a game mechanic?
Azuse The Brotherhood Of The Blade Pure.	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:28:00 - [74] Originally by: Zeoliter I'm hoping teh HIC will be the only Dictor that can hold down a Mothership - even in 0.0. If you think about it logically, if an unscripted HIC can't hold down a SuperCap then a normal Dictor shouldn't be able to. Otherwise we now have 2 classes of ship that can hold down a SuperCap and that would be ridiculous. But having the HIC as teh only ship that can hold one down but only when scripted brings some kind of balance to the game. And make teh Warp Field Generator use Graviton Physics 4 but the script should have Graviton Physics 5 as a requirement making it the only super skilled that can hold down a SuperCap in a pretty rare ship. That would balance things further and make perfect sense. This. --------------------------
Varrakk Chosen Path	Posted - 2007.11.08 14:43:00 - [75] If the E-war immunity on supercapitals is no longer a immunity. Shouldnt they be compensated? More in the line of buffed tank, a significant increase to repping ability.
Cythrawl Caldari Central Defiance	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:07:00 - [76] Originally by: Varrakk If the E-war immunity on supercapitals is no longer a immunity. Shouldnt they be compensated? More in the line of buffed tank, a significant increase to repping ability. Nyx on test: Gallente Carrier Skill Bonuses: 50% bonus to Capital Shield and Armor transfer range per level 5% bonus to deployed FightersÆ damage per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Projected Electronic Counter Measures modules 99% reduction in CPU need for Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration modules Can deploy 3 additional Fighters per level Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level 200% bonus to Fighter control range Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare Erebus: Gallente Titan Skill Bonuses: 10% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage per level 7.5% bonus to gang membersÆ maximum armor HP per level 99% reduction in CPU need for Jump Portal Generators 99% reduction in CPU need for Aurora Ominae 99% reduction in CPU need for Clone Vat Bay 99% reduction in CPU need for Warfare Link modules Can fit 1 additional Warfare Link module per level Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare So no changes to anti-e-war on those ships. It's just now there are only 8 ships in the entire game who can and will be able to lock them down, and only 4 of those in low sec. You people here cry like that's the end of the world. And for the one guy who said titan's are at risk in low sec.... Tell me, how many titans have you seen in low sec recently? BTw, all the titans can use ecm drones. ECM jam a heavy dictor with drones and how useful is that scramb mod? Get caught by multiple? Sucks to be you. A mom can launch anywhere from 20-25 depending on fit. That means in theory since you can use about 5 heavy drones to perma-jam a ship, you could jam 5 heavy dictors with proper drone management. People... there are ways. Figure 'em out and stop making excuses for not adapting. .:. Originally by: Krazy Bitsch Originally by: Virtuality In before the first troll. i do believe you are too late for this....

CCP Mindstar	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:08:00 - [77] Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded. I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module. -- The cake is a lie!

Cythrawl Caldari Central Defiance	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:16:00 - [78] Originally by: CCP Mindstar The cake is a lie! I prefer the first version myself. Also, I don't see why you guys haven't started complaining about how stupidly nice the Malediction is with the ability to scramb at 30k at inty 5 with a t2 disrupt and use light missiles. Malediction > Crow .:. Originally by: Krazy Bitsch Originally by: Virtuality In before the first troll. i do believe you are too late for this....
Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 15:54:00 - [79] If the new fangled HIC needs a script to make it scramble SuperCaps, are we going to see SuperCaps invulnerable to standard dictor bubbles again with the HIC assuming this role? Any chance a dev wants to comment on that and my other points a few posts up cos it's a damn good idea. I really don't have anything better than nerf signatures (like moderating CAOD but I'm scared of Goons) - Valorem
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:05:00 - [80] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded. I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module. Does it also remove the "immunity" to logistics? I don't see any mention of that in the script. -- stuff --

CCP Mindstar	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:15:00 - [81] Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: CCP Mindstar Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded. I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module. Does it also remove the "immunity" to logistics? I don't see any mention of that in the script. I have confirmed now that it removes all agility and speed related penalties, but the ship will still be unable to receive remote assistance if the focusing script is loaded and module active. -- The cake is a lie!

Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:19:00 - [82] Originally by: Zeoliter If the new fangled HIC needs a script to make it scramble SuperCaps, are we going to see SuperCaps invulnerable to standard dictor bubbles again with the HIC assuming this role? Any chance a dev wants to comment on that and my other points a few posts up cos it's a damn good idea. sup Zeo is God's gift to women - Valorem
Reatu Krentor Minmatar Void Spiders Fate Weavers	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:23:00 - [83] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Originally by: Reatu Krentor Originally by: CCP Mindstar Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded. I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module. Does it also remove the "immunity" to logistics? I don't see any mention of that in the script. I have confirmed now that it removes all agility and speed related penalties, but the ship will still be unable to receive remote assistance if the focusing script is loaded and module active. Thank you -- stuff --
Ivor Gunn No One Expects The Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:26:00 - [84] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded. I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module. That makes no sense whatsoever. If anything it should increase the penalties so that supercap tackling doesnt degenerate into a 1 click i win button.

CCP Atropos	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:26:00 - [85] Ha! Beaten to it by Mindstar. Remote logistics are indeed disabled when the warp scrambler is active, regardless of script. Originally by: Zeoliter Originally by: Zeoliter If the new fangled HIC needs a script to make it scramble SuperCaps, are we going to see SuperCaps invulnerable to standard dictor bubbles again with the HIC assuming this role? Any chance a dev wants to comment on that and my other points a few posts up cos it's a damn good idea. sup Why would Supercaps become immune once more, to standard Interdiction spheres? The Heavy variants are in addition to the Destroyer based Interdictors

Elmicker Black Sea Industries Cult of War	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:40:00 - [86] Originally by: CCP Mindstar Thats a fairly narrow view of the role Interdictors play in EVE. While totally valid, it discounts the fact that there are many more scenarios in which such ships will be useful, and not all of them involve tackling supercapitals or fleet fighting. I disagree. So far, the HICs, with their temporary bubble and massive drawbacks are massively inferior to normal dictors (even post-speed nerf) at all small gang roaming and fleet fight jobs, simply by virtue of their bubble being deployed. The only job they excel in so far is tackling supercaps with the focused script, and even that will only be useful in lowsec or in tandem with normal dictors.
Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:45:00 - [87] Just think about it. It takes years of skilling to sit in a Mothership or Titan. I can be in a dictor in a few months. The noob can tackle the most expensive ships in the game - and they can now even tank a DD. It's only comman sense that it takes a pilot with some invested skill time to pilot a ship that can tackle a Supercap. It's not all about teamwork and this Suppercap shouldn't be there with its support fleet etc. If that was the case then you'd never see a Supercap kill. Yet you have to take into account things like lag that have been a factor in quite a few supercapital kills. There just should be some kind of skill ratio between the Supercap tackler and the Supercap and this HIC was a great opportunity. Throw in Graviton Physics 5 for the script and you have a pilot needing 5 level 5 skills to tackle a Supercap(frig 5, destroyer 5, cruiser 5, prop jam 5 and grav physics 5). And it still makes no sense that the more powerful warp field generator can't tackle Supercaps (only with a script) but the lesser warp disruption probe cam. Zeo The True Balancer. Zeo is God's gift to women - Valorem

CCP Mindstar	Posted - 2007.11.08 16:53:00 - [88] Originally by: Zeoliter And it still makes no sense that the more powerful warp field generator can't tackle Supercaps (only with a script) but the lesser warp disruption probe cam. As far as I am aware they should be able to tackle supercaps with or without the script. -- The cake is a lie!

Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:05:00 - [89] So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities. All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers. Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm. Zeo is God's gift to women - Valorem
Rexxar Civire Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.11.08 17:08:00 - [90] If you could , just give me one reason why someone would fly a 30 billion isk ship into frontline fleet combat in this new build instead of a 1 billion isk carrier? - There are none What you have effectively done is made the ship completely undesireable other than to be a overpriced battleship hauler( if in fact the cargo nerf goes through ), and a great model to look at ( kudos to the design team \o/ ) What you fail to understand is supercapitals are 'raid' targets. People will prepare and plan to destroy them, unlike thier carrier and dreadnaught counterparts. This alone makes them more vulnerable. I completely agree with what is done to keep them from invulnerability in low sec, however the simple fact remains that it takes no more to kill them than a carrier. This is unbalanced. If you wish to refer to triage, yes this is a very valid function in 'non lagged' fleet combat to backup a weak tank. However again , ... why would you fly a 30 billion isk ship , when you can do the exact same function in a 1 billion isk carrier. This is unbalanced. The new HiDs will be able to tank DD'd, and you will never see a titan in use again. No one will spend 100 billion isk per DD. The changes that are being made are only step one of what needs to change, and I do completely agree with the new ships and thier function. However in turn there needs to be a boost made to supercapitals. As it is , ... they are no longer super anymore. There have been many suggestions to boost supercapitals, to list a few: - Increase thier tanking capability in one form or another. - Allow motherships to still use drones/fighters and/or be able to move/warp while in triage. - Give them a new ability/function in or out of combat that makes them worthwhile and desireable. In the end there needs to be a viable variant as to give reason to want and use these very expensive ships. I have faith in Eve online and the development team to keep our game on the cutting edge, I will certainly keep paying for my three accounts reguardless. Eve is by far in my opnion the best mmorpg the world has to offer. On a side note and in the meatime, can something be done so that we can get out of our unbalanced ships for now? A couple suggestions i have are: - allow supercapitals the ability to dock when they have no pvp timer, obviously with this no interface with the station other than the use of the clone bay would be permitted. IE no fitting , no ability to access the ship maintenence array/cargo/corporate hanger ( this would probably be entirely difficult to code in ). - Allow anchoring of a capital ship maintence array without soverignty. These arrays are 900million isk, and in no way would cause any form of unbalance to be able to use them in low sec or unsoverign 0.0 . Please help us enjoy Eve as you would like us too, out of these ships. Rex

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