Originally by: "FD-MLJ local"

---

[11:31:09] cuncannon > ccp minderstar can u explain how new dictors ment to work
[11:33:26] CCP Mindstar > they are like a regular dictor bubble ariound your own ship
[11:33:31] CCP Mindstar > anything inside gets warp jammed
[11:33:47] CCP Mindstar > or, you can put the focusing script into the module, and use it like a targeted warp disruptor
[11:34:58] CCP Mindstar > good thing about the focusing script is that it can scramble motherships too ;)
[11:35:01] CCP Mindstar > and works in lowsec

---

Originally by: CCP Zulupark

---

Yes, that is indeed how it works.

With the focusing script in it, the Heavy Interdictor can scramble any ship and it works in low-security space.

---

Originally by: Nyack

---

i wonder how many will fly titans after this..

---

Originally by: Shadowsword

---

I've got a few questions about scripts (I'll try to log on Sisi to test them, if they're seeded, but I'm at work now).


- Does it takes time to change from a script to another? (I hope it takes 10 seconds to reload, or else sensor damps are virtually untouched by the nerf the deserve)

---

Originally by: Shadowsword

---

- Do they have a limited lifespan, like ammos? Do you have to have XX quantity of the same scripts in your cargo?

---

Originally by: CCP Zulupark

---

Yes, that is indeed how it works.

With the focusing script in it, the Heavy Interdictor can scramble any ship and it works in low-security space.

---

Originally by: Madscience

---

so the new dictor will bubble any ship in low sec too?

---

Originally by: Will Stronghold

---

I do hope they will be limited in low-sec to be only usable with the focusing script. I would hate to start seeing bubbles in low-sec.

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 13:37:12
While i do agree this is awesome anti mothership in lowsec and was needed for a long time i think it brings up issues.
A speedtanking broadsword can solo tackle a mothership in 0.0. Not much point in the EW immunity of a 40 bill isk ship if it can be effectively tackled by one single ship until the fleet arrives. Basically a mothership is just a carrier with a few more fighters now.

Edit: @Barthezz from what i know it's not. You're looking at 3k/sec+ fast orbiting broadswords tackling the so called EW immune supercapitals.

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 13:37:12
While i do agree this is awesome anti mothership in lowsec and was needed for a long time i think it brings up issues.
A speedtanking broadsword can solo tackle a mothership in 0.0. Not much point in the EW immunity of a 40 bill isk ship if it can be effectively tackled by one single ship until the fleet arrives. Basically a mothership is just a carrier with a few more fighters now.

Edit: @Barthezz from what i know it's not. You're looking at 3k/sec+ fast orbiting broadswords tackling the so called EW immune supercapitals.

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

Originally by: Barthezz

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

Which is my question, do the limitations (that apply to the warp bubble from heavy interdictors) also apply to the focused scrambler.

The answer is a simple yes/no, and if that answer is no then you will indeed have a heavy interdictor going +3k/sec solo-tackling super capitals without a care in the world.

If the answer is yes (e.g. his speed gets limited, cant be remote repaired, etc), then its a good change (even though I really feel that super capitals dont need even more ways of being tackled without getting anything for it in return).

---

Originally by: Krazy Bitsch

---

Originally by: Virtuality

---

In before the first troll.

---

i do believe you are too late for this....

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 13:37:12
While i do agree this is awesome anti mothership in lowsec and was needed for a long time i think it brings up issues.
A speedtanking broadsword can solo tackle a mothership in 0.0. Not much point in the EW immunity of a 40 bill isk ship if it can be effectively tackled by one single ship until the fleet arrives. Basically a mothership is just a carrier with a few more fighters now.

Edit: @Barthezz from what i know it's not. You're looking at 3k/sec+ fast orbiting broadswords tackling the so called EW immune supercapitals.

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 13:37:12
While i do agree this is awesome anti mothership in lowsec and was needed for a long time i think it brings up issues.
A speedtanking broadsword can solo tackle a mothership in 0.0. Not much point in the EW immunity of a 40 bill isk ship if it can be effectively tackled by one single ship until the fleet arrives. Basically a mothership is just a carrier with a few more fighters now.

Edit: @Barthezz from what i know it's not. You're looking at 3k/sec+ fast orbiting broadswords tackling the so called EW immune supercapitals.

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 15:23:20

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 13:37:12
While i do agree this is awesome anti mothership in lowsec and was needed for a long time i think it brings up issues.
A speedtanking broadsword can solo tackle a mothership in 0.0. Not much point in the EW immunity of a 40 bill isk ship if it can be effectively tackled by one single ship until the fleet arrives. Basically a mothership is just a carrier with a few more fighters now.

Edit: @Barthezz from what i know it's not. You're looking at 3k/sec+ fast orbiting broadswords tackling the so called EW immune supercapitals.

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

It's quite alarming that you ask me this question. You should bloody know! You're a DEV and this change might make paper toys out of the second expensive ship in game and you don't even know.

Personally i have not tested it. I've been on sisi and had someone report this and he had a broadsword.

Who said they should be flown solo? Don't wwist my posts!
I said a boradsword will tackle a mothership speedtankign at zero risk. That is an issue. Last thing this game needs is even more oeverpowered speedtanks.
I fly vagabond and huginns myself - i know what they can do.

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 15:23:20

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 13:37:12
While i do agree this is awesome anti mothership in lowsec and was needed for a long time i think it brings up issues.
A speedtanking broadsword can solo tackle a mothership in 0.0. Not much point in the EW immunity of a 40 bill isk ship if it can be effectively tackled by one single ship until the fleet arrives. Basically a mothership is just a carrier with a few more fighters now.

Edit: @Barthezz from what i know it's not. You're looking at 3k/sec+ fast orbiting broadswords tackling the so called EW immune supercapitals.

---

Did you test this 'speed fit' with the scrambler active?

---

It's quite alarming that you ask me this question. You should bloody know! You're a DEV and this change might make paper toys out of the second expensive ship in game and you don't even know.

Personally i have not tested it. I've been on sisi and had someone report this and he had a broadsword.

Who said they should be flown solo? Don't wwist my posts!
I said a boradsword will tackle a mothership speedtankign at zero risk. That is an issue. Last thing this game needs is even more oeverpowered speedtanks.
I fly vagabond and huginns myself - i know what they can do.

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

If it helps, I'm getting clarification on the matter from the Game Design team.

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Currently the Focused scripts nullify the negative side effects of the Heavy Interdictors, which does indeed allow you to speed tank the Broadsword.

However, as with everything on Sisi, it may change.

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Edited by: MOS DEF on 07/11/2007 15:46:39

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

If it helps, I'm getting clarification on the matter from the Game Design team.

---

It would help. I would test it if i coudl use the ship myself. I therefor had to rely on the info of a pilot that can use it.

If the HIC cannot do 3k+ there is no issue. Reports from sisi say they can though. If that is true that is quite game breaking.
I wouldn't be surprised after waht you guys pulled off lately.

You must excuse me but your latest changes to the game were radical and the trust of the community in the DEVS is lower then ever.

Edit: At the poster above: There is nothign easy in catching a vagabond or huginn. It is possible by using rapiers and that's pretty much it.
If you use your brains you are very hard to catch.
Also i would not compare a 10 mill ceptro tackling a battleship with a 100 mill HIC tacklign a 40 billion mothership or 100+ bill titan. Don't go there.
Isk shpould not make you invulnerable. But there should be SOME reason to fly this ships. Right now i cannot see one anymore.

---

Originally by: Cythrawl

---

Does this work on ships that have warp core stab/multiple stabs fitted?

---

Originally by: Dr Aryandi

---

The focused script and the ability to warp scramble super caps and the overly-stabbed is great...however I do think that if it also removes the penalties of the module then it is way too strong. There needs to be some drawback to using it or people will just set up a remote repping tank and/or a speed fit and it will be impossible to break free of the tackle.

With the penalties applying at least people will need multiple heavy interdictors or some very good (player) skilled pilots flying them.

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Currently the Focused scripts nullify the negative side effects of the Heavy Interdictors, which does indeed allow you to speed tank the Broadsword.

However, as with everything on Sisi, it may change.

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Currently the Focused scripts nullify the negative side effects of the Heavy Interdictors, which does indeed allow you to speed tank the Broadsword.

However, as with everything on Sisi, it may change.

---

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

---

Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?

---

Originally by: CCP Tuxford

---

I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.

---

Originally by: Andreya

---

how about we unnerf my destroyer interdictors, and just remove polycarbs from eve... this way everyones happy .
or, nerf the HIC's for all i care, just dont make the interdictors rubbish with the speed nerf... seeing as a t1 thorax can outrun them

---

Originally by: CCP Tuxford

---

I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.

---

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

---

Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?

---

Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

---

A Broadsword dedicated to tanking (something like 17k shields with resists in the 80's for a T2 fit) plus a Scimitar will be able to hold down a mom quite nicely I think. Scimitar can just stand off at 60 or so km and warp out as needed if the mom's heavies get to him, then as the heavies trundle back to the Broadsword, the scimitar comes back and resumes repping. Sounds doable to me but it's definately not a guaranteed sustained tackle especially if the mom has a support gang like it should.

---

Originally by: Fenderson

---

i feel its worth mentioning that any supercap that gets caught with its pants down and scrambled by a solo HIC with no support to deal with a minor threat like that deserves to die.

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

But there should be SOME reason to fly this ships. Right now i cannot see one anymore.

---

Originally by: Mr Broker

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

But there should be SOME reason to fly this ships. Right now i cannot see one anymore.

---

think outside solo or small gang ganking

they are very usefull in fleets and to large alliances

---

Originally by: Mr Broker

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

But there should be SOME reason to fly this ships. Right now i cannot see one anymore.

---

think outside solo or small gang ganking

they are very usefull in fleets and to large alliances

---

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

---

This is all great news, especially for shield tanking gangs and those tired of lo-sec MS

However there is one problem.

/me walks over and hammers the last nail in the Blockade Runners coffin.

---

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

---

This is all great news, especially for shield tanking gangs and those tired of lo-sec MS

However there is one problem.

/me walks over and hammers the last nail in the Blockade Runners coffin.

---

Originally by: Lachesis Moirae

---

Unless the script makes it so the hactor can be remote repped, it doesn't nullify all the downsides of the bubble, and as such is fine.

---

Originally by: Barthezz

---

if not then what exactly is the point of a super capital again?

---

Originally by: Natalie Jax

---

In order for this change to be effective at all the HIC would need the ability to lock down the MoM in lowsec space. To do so it needs the ability to survive the DPS that a MoM is still capable of in lowsec, namely the Heavy Drones it can dump into space.

So it either needs to be able to tank the damage of those Heavy Drones, or outrun them. Otherwise the MoM just waits for the inevitable lock and kills the HIC. And we're back to invulnerability.

Just something to keep in mind.

---

Originally by: Orar Ironfist

---

Edited by: Orar Ironfist on 07/11/2007 20:47:13
Im sorry if this sounds like flaming cause i really dont want it to be but lets envision the scimitar HIC scenario you just painted(low sec style):
MOM pilot: OOO broadsword seems to have tackled me and there seems to be a scimitar remote repping him.....mmmmm two easy kills time. Support engage the HIC while i deal with this scimitar.....
HIC: Hehehehe this is gonna be so easy alls i gotta do is hold down this mom till my mini cap fleet lands right on top of him and we go home with a fat mom kill.....ohh support is engaging....Lol a rapier hes gonna get so popped if he does any....crap im dual webbed and painted and the mom is repping him so he wont die.....No matter my tank can hold with my supp....crap he popped 20 t2 sentries.....my support is warpin off......oh crap almighty he just sicked 20 t2 heavies on me and now support is engagin EEe******k!!!! crap im going down annddd.......Got my pod out wewt!
LOGISTICS PILOT: You wha..?? But im already coming back in!!! crap well i can just warp out atleast...nvm sentries again and im going down too.....damn...

Creativity + support + well formed mom pilot= wont have to worry bout setups like that

---

Originally by: Krazy Bitsch

---

Originally by: Virtuality

---

In before the first troll.

---

i do believe you are too late for this....

Originally by: Chomapuraku

---

does it matter if a solo broadsword can tackle a solo mothership? no. why?

because you're not supposed to be able to do ANYTHING with a solo mothership. the rich boys think that 20 billion isk should buy them an IWIN button, but tough ****. you're not supposed to do anything with a solo capital, period. capitals are designed to survive by gang support and gang support alone.

what's that? you're just moving it along a cyno highway with your one b-bird alt? what are you doing outside a dead-end system or without alt scouts in all adjacent systems? hell, even if the broadsword does manage to tackle your mom, you still have a lag time in which their support has to travel to that system, and your support should sure as hell be a lot closer than theirs.

---

Originally by: Orar Ironfist

---

Edited by: Orar Ironfist on 07/11/2007 20:08:14

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

---

This is all great news, especially for shield tanking gangs and those tired of lo-sec MS

However there is one problem.

/me walks over and hammers the last nail in the Blockade Runners coffin.

---

You do realize that makes no sense yes? If your speaking low-sec then that doesnt matter good nav skills+blockade runner+ a t2 i-stab or two and you align faster then anyone besides a double sensor-boosting bs could lock(and with the built in wcs you still get away) And if your talkin about 0.0 throw an mwd on it and you can get back to the gate and jump/warp fatser then the dictor/ gang with anchored bubble could kill you. Every ship in this game is designed for a purpose,(this is not really directed at you but at the people whining about the hic)Just because your too blinded by your own argument and cant see said purpose doesnt make the devs wrong and untrustworthy.

EDIT: ignore my bad sp3llin

---

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

---

Originally by: Orar Ironfist

---

Edited by: Orar Ironfist on 07/11/2007 20:08:14

Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

---

This is all great news, especially for shield tanking gangs and those tired of lo-sec MS

However there is one problem.

/me walks over and hammers the last nail in the Blockade Runners coffin.

---

You do realize that makes no sense yes? If your speaking low-sec then that doesnt matter good nav skills+blockade runner+ a t2 i-stab or two and you align faster then anyone besides a double sensor-boosting bs could lock(and with the built in wcs you still get away) And if your talkin about 0.0 throw an mwd on it and you can get back to the gate and jump/warp fatser then the dictor/ gang with anchored bubble could kill you. Every ship in this game is designed for a purpose,(this is not really directed at you but at the people whining about the hic)Just because your too blinded by your own argument and cant see said purpose doesnt make the devs wrong and untrustworthy.

EDIT: ignore my bad sp3llin

---

Glad it's not directed at me, I like the HIC in it's current iteration. However by your logic any cruiser with a pair of i-stabs in immune to gate-camps since they share similar mass and agility stats with blockade runners. I think you'll find that isn't the case.

Anyway, it's a side-issue and I don't expect it to affect the HiC, more that the blockade runner should perhaps be looked at again since it is barely used as it is and the last scrap of usefulness it had (being able to run very small camps) just got taken away.

---

Originally by: Samurai XII

---

Ok, so uber nerf for MS again. CCP fix MS so they only cost 4-5 billion isk. No point in them costing a **** LOAD OF *****NG ISk AND THEN SOME if any f*cktard in a interdictor or heavy interdictor be able to perma scramble one.

Seriously, didn't people slap the sh*t out of you guys enough at fanfest? I sure hope i did.

EPIC FAIL. All three accounts staying canceled. No you can't have my stuff sh*tbags, you probably can't even use it. Come back in 3-4 years.

---

Originally by: Fenderson

---

Originally by: CCP Atropos

---

Currently the Focused scripts nullify the negative side effects of the Heavy Interdictors, which does indeed allow you to speed tank the Broadsword.

However, as with everything on Sisi, it may change.

---

What about remote reps? can heavy dictors be remore repped with the focus script in use?

---

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

---

Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

I'm hoping teh HIC will be the only Dictor that can hold down a Mothership - even in 0.0. If you think about it logically, if an unscripted HIC can't hold down a SuperCap then a normal Dictor shouldn't be able to. Otherwise we now have 2 classes of ship that can hold down a SuperCap and that would be ridiculous.

But having the HIC as teh only ship that can hold one down but only when scripted brings some kind of balance to the game. And make teh Warp Field Generator use Graviton Physics 4 but the script should have Graviton Physics 5 as a requirement making it the only super skilled that can hold down a SuperCap in a pretty rare ship.

That would balance things further and make perfect sense.

---

Originally by: Varrakk

---

If the E-war immunity on supercapitals is no longer a immunity. Shouldnt they be compensated? More in the line of buffed tank, a significant increase to repping ability.

---

Originally by: Krazy Bitsch

---

Originally by: Virtuality

---

In before the first troll.

---

i do believe you are too late for this....

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

The cake is a lie!

---

Originally by: Krazy Bitsch

---

Originally by: Virtuality

---

In before the first troll.

---

i do believe you are too late for this....

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded.

I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module.

---

Originally by: Reatu Krentor

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded.

I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module.

---

Does it also remove the "immunity" to logistics? I don't see any mention of that in the script.

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

If the new fangled HIC needs a script to make it scramble SuperCaps, are we going to see SuperCaps invulnerable to standard dictor bubbles again with the HIC assuming this role?

Any chance a dev wants to comment on that and my other points a few posts up cos it's a damn good idea.

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Originally by: Reatu Krentor

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded.

I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module.

---

Does it also remove the "immunity" to logistics? I don't see any mention of that in the script.

---

I have confirmed now that it removes all agility and speed related penalties, but the ship will still be unable to receive remote assistance if the focusing script is loaded and module active.

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded.

I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module.

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

If the new fangled HIC needs a script to make it scramble SuperCaps, are we going to see SuperCaps invulnerable to standard dictor bubbles again with the HIC assuming this role?

Any chance a dev wants to comment on that and my other points a few posts up cos it's a damn good idea.

---

sup

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Thats a fairly narrow view of the role Interdictors play in EVE. While totally valid, it discounts the fact that there are many more scenarios in which such ships will be useful, and not all of them involve tackling supercapitals or fleet fighting.

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

And it still makes no sense that the more powerful warp field generator can't tackle Supercaps (only with a script) but the lesser warp disruption probe cam.

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

As far as I am aware they should be able to tackle supercaps with or without the script.

---

Originally by: Rexxar Civire

---

Two things i would like to add to my previous post.

One, as an idea to give them an inline boost, make them immune to any form of energy neutralizing or nosterafu.

And second, on the part about helping us not be stuck in them - Allow a password to be set to capital/ship maintenence arrays so they can be used out of corp.

Thank you for reading my comments.

Rex

---

Originally by: Varrakk

---

Takes 2-4 months to build these Supercapitals, draining the wallets of corporations and alliances. Where is the balance?

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

And it still makes no sense that the more powerful warp field generator can't tackle Supercaps (only with a script) but the lesser warp disruption probe cam.

---

As far as I am aware they should be able to tackle supercaps with or without the script.

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities.

All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers.

Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm.

---

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

---

Originally by: Varrakk

---

Takes 2-4 months to build these Supercapitals, draining the wallets of corporations and alliances. Where is the balance?

---

Yeh... thats why there are craploads of "personal supercaps" in game now.

And why the nerf? Ask lowsec mothership lamers. They know the answer well enough.

---

Originally by: Miz Cenuij

---

Failing that iam selling my MS and buying a normal carrier, filling the lows with WCS, med with tank and highs with smartbombs and carrying on as normal, only 25b richer, LOOL.

---

Originally by: CCP Tuxford

---

I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.

---

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

---

Yep it was needed for players without both lobes of their brains functioning.

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

---

Yep it was needed for players without both lobes of their brains functioning.

---

Fixed it for ya m8. No thank you needed :p

---

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Deva Blackfire

---

Yep it was needed for players without both lobes of their brains functioning.

---

Fixed it for ya m8. No thank you needed :p

---

Your try at humour is flawed tbh.

And if you dont know why lowsec moms get shafted its your loss.

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

And it still makes no sense that the more powerful warp field generator can't tackle Supercaps (only with a script) but the lesser warp disruption probe cam.

---

As far as I am aware they should be able to tackle supercaps with or without the script.

---

Originally by: CCP Wrangler

---

Oh dear, how about we all calm down a bit instead?

---

Originally by: Aeon Yakati

---

Lovely.

More POS hugging ships that only come out when you have a blob. Just what we need.

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Aeon Yakati

---

Lovely.

More POS hugging ships that only come out when you have a blob. Just what we need.

---

Exactly. That's why my last 6 accounts are canceled.

I think the devs do not understand that there are players that are not at all stimulated by battleships, AFs, inties, newly concocted jump freighters, or what not. Effectively we are being told to ditch caps and saddle up with ships that have been around for four years. BORING. Unimaginative. ect etc etc. I've done everything that can be done in a BS on down. Two hundred times more than the new player whose whines are guiding things. There's nothing more left for me to do in those ships.

Most successful, long term MMO's, understand the idea of "natural progression." CCP does not.

---

Originally by: CCP Tuxford

---

I prefer dew over pepsi. I prefer beer over most things. Damn now I want beer.

---

Originally by: Vicious Phoenix

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Aeon Yakati

---

Lovely.

More POS hugging ships that only come out when you have a blob. Just what we need.

---

Exactly. That's why my last 6 accounts are canceled.

I think the devs do not understand that there are players that are not at all stimulated by battleships, AFs, inties, newly concocted jump freighters, or what not. Effectively we are being told to ditch caps and saddle up with ships that have been around for four years. BORING. Unimaginative. ect etc etc. I've done everything that can be done in a BS on down. Two hundred times more than the new player whose whines are guiding things. There's nothing more left for me to do in those ships.

Most successful, long term MMO's, understand the idea of "natural progression." CCP does not.

---

Can I have your stuff?

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Originally by: Ivor Gunn

---

Originally by: CCP Mindstar

---

Just to confirm - The focused warp disruption script does indeed remove all of the drawbacks of the warp disruption field generator when it is loaded.

I have spoken with the balancing guys about this, and it is the intended functionality of the module.

---

That makes no sense whatsoever. If anything it should increase the penalties so that supercap tackling doesnt degenerate into a 1 click i win button.

---

Why would it - the support fleet can easily kill a cruiser.

---

Originally by: Silvero

---

Edited by: Silvero on 08/11/2007 22:53:30
Lissen to the man ^

And while we are on the Titan page, which are the actual slot it's gonna fill nowdays.

With jump freighters and jump bridge arrays and the "new" freighter mass the last practical use of a Titan are getting taken away.

[x] Invulnerbility
[x] Offensive capabilities
[x] Logistics

Yeah i think you got them all....

I have to say that the long waiting for the legendary Titan has reached a nice anticlimax.
After waiting for more then 3 years this ship, proclaimed to be the king of all ships turns out to be nothing.

---

Originally by: Valharu

---

Or is it that people forget they should never be alone and be protected by a swarm of defenders.

Realisticly there is nothing wrong with locking down a cap ship, even a Titan. What is wrong is if they are out alone without a host of protectors.

There really is not much of a half way point. You either go on the side of caution and make them vulnerable and have to be protected by a host of defenders. Or you make them pawnmobiles which is unrealistic.

Some people will use ISK as a reason for the later, but even today our Carriers are Heavily protected and that is still not a garentee that they won't be blown up one day.

---

Originally by: Valharu

---

Or is it that people forget they should never be alone and be protected by a swarm of defenders.

Realisticly there is nothing wrong with locking down a cap ship, even a Titan. What is wrong is if they are out alone without a host of protectors.

There really is not much of a half way point. You either go on the side of caution and make them vulnerable and have to be protected by a host of defenders. Or you make them pawnmobiles which is unrealistic.

Some people will use ISK as a reason for the later, but even today our Carriers are Heavily protected and that is still not a garentee that they won't be blown up one day.

---

Originally by: Valharu

---

Or is it that people forget they should never be alone and be protected by a swarm of defenders.

Realisticly there is nothing wrong with locking down a cap ship, even a Titan. What is wrong is if they are out alone without a host of protectors.

There really is not much of a half way point. You either go on the side of caution and make them vulnerable and have to be protected by a host of defenders. Or you make them pawnmobiles which is unrealistic.

Some people will use ISK as a reason for the later, but even today our Carriers are Heavily protected and that is still not a garentee that they won't be blown up one day.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

I understand that there needs to be a way of holding these things down to kill them, but these ways should not be introduced until "bumping" has been fixed.

I think if these 2 changes are introduced, Titans can be used once again:

1) Allow Titans to use any DDD, no racial specific crap. This prevents the enemy fleet from knowing what to tank for. Titans are the only ships limited to 1 damage type!! Stop this & change it asap, its probably only a few lines of code anyways.

2) Remove the delay to set off the Doomsday Device. Once they fire this, they are sitting ducks. A 50 billion isk ship that has next to zero firepower to protect itself and fleets aren't always the solution. Honestly, this arguement is always given by devs but I believe it is incorrect. If it was only about relying on your fleet to rescue you, then you're promoting blobbing, not reducing it. The biggest blob wins. If you allow the Titan to redeploy the DDD once it recharges its cap sufficiently it can properly defend itself. Again, this is cap dependent, so its not like it can run around using this thing like a smartbomb. Or, at the very least reduce the cooldown to no more than 10 minutes.

Yes, the Remote detonation was overpowered, its good its removed. Yes, bubbles not working on supercaps was overpowered, its also good it was changed. These 2 items need to be changed, also I hope the Titan gets a boost to its ship array as the Carriers & Motherships are.

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities.

All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers.

Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm.

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities.

All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers.

Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm.

---

Originally by: Samurai XII

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities.

All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers.

Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm.

---

^^that

---

Originally by: Visakoth

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities.

All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers.

Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm.

---

Tears ITT

This game is made for bob amirite, devs better listen else bob and mc will quit.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Originally by: Visakoth

---

Originally by: Zeoliter

---

So now we have 8 ships that can tackle supercaps. You wanted to take away the Mom's drones. You want to nerf a Carrier's hauling capabilities.

All your changes affect your longest and most loyal customers.

Seriously, it's quite amusing checking out the business face palm.

---

Tears ITT

This game is made for bob amirite, devs better listen else bob and mc will quit.

---

Funny how all these nerfs to caps make blobbing (a goon thing) the most powerful thing.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Funny how all these nerfs to caps make blobbing (a goon thing) the most powerful thing.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Funny how all these nerfs to caps make blobbing (a goon thing) the most powerful thing.

---

Originally by: Lianlan Lou

---

Edited by: Lianlan Lou on 09/11/2007 05:11:48

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Funny how all these nerfs to caps make blobbing (a goon thing) the most powerful thing.

---

You seem to have a short memory. BoB was not referred to as BloB for nothing. Blobbing isn't solely the providence of goons, every large alliance has done it. Goons have just had more success at it recently than you have.

as a side note, i'm sure that the 100+ carriers/dreads/motherships i saw outside of an IAC pos a few months ago wasn't a blob, was it?

for gods sake, just stop posting.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

mad guy

---

Originally by: magnus amadeus

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

mad guy

---

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean to single out you alone, but all three in that quote pyramid.

Care to address the problem of escalation though? Also, I mean just look at what those guys did with the smartbombing gate-camp trap, that was risky but at the same time great. That alone just goes to prove that you can have all the players and SP in the world, but smart thinking and sound strategy will produce results.

Really... in a MMO having OMGWTF ships that run around killing noobs by the thousands is not a good idea. *may be exaggerated just a tiny bit =P*

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Originally by: magnus amadeus

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

mad guy

---

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean to single out you alone, but all three in that quote pyramid.

Care to address the problem of escalation though? Also, I mean just look at what those guys did with the smartbombing gate-camp trap, that was risky but at the same time great. That alone just goes to prove that you can have all the players and SP in the world, but smart thinking and sound strategy will produce results.

Really... in a MMO having OMGWTF ships that run around killing noobs by the thousands is not a good idea. *may be exaggerated just a tiny bit =P*

---

Its just funny, I remember no more than 6 months ago, owning a Titan was amazing, cool and useful. Now its a laugh. It was the ultimate goal of eve, now its how an eccentric rich weirdo spends his money. All it would take to fix that are a few simple changes, not overpowering ones and it keeps them vulnerable too. Is that really too much to ask? Let Evil Thug use his Titan the way he wishes he could, I want to hear about how someone accidentally doomsdays 1/2 of their fleet as we used to. These things were never overpowered, they were interesting. Now its no different than owning a silver magnate.

---

Originally by: magnus amadeus

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Originally by: magnus amadeus

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

mad guy

---

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean to single out you alone, but all three in that quote pyramid.

Care to address the problem of escalation though? Also, I mean just look at what those guys did with the smartbombing gate-camp trap, that was risky but at the same time great. That alone just goes to prove that you can have all the players and SP in the world, but smart thinking and sound strategy will produce results.

Really... in a MMO having OMGWTF ships that run around killing noobs by the thousands is not a good idea. *may be exaggerated just a tiny bit =P*

---

Its just funny, I remember no more than 6 months ago, owning a Titan was amazing, cool and useful. Now its a laugh. It was the ultimate goal of eve, now its how an eccentric rich weirdo spends his money. All it would take to fix that are a few simple changes, not overpowering ones and it keeps them vulnerable too. Is that really too much to ask? Let Evil Thug use his Titan the way he wishes he could, I want to hear about how someone accidentally doomsdays 1/2 of their fleet as we used to. These things were never overpowered, they were interesting. Now its no different than owning a silver magnate.

---

I don't agree with you. Too me, ever since I moved back to empire (about a year ago now) I have still desired to see a titan in action. I kinda saw one once when a dev was "cleaning up drones" in an FFA around the time of the DDD buff, or maybe that was when they were first coming out...

Anyway, titans are still plenty useful imho. The bonuses they provide a gang are amazing, the jump bridge is quite nice (yeah, black-ops is stealing a little bit of that thunder) and the DDD can still be used to dominate a field of battle when you least expect it.

I think the whole thing is you really have to be alot smarter than the other guy when you use it. Part of the problem was that DDDs were going off every five minutes, so everyone knew if you are fighting X tank Y damage, increasing survivability of the entire fleet.

Now I am not trying to be very insulting, but you are not addressing the issues here. You are saying the same thing people said when dreads became common, or carriers, motherships, even battleship once upon a time. I remember when seeing T2 stuff impressed me. Titans were found to be overpowering, invulnerable, solo-pwnmachines a while ago. Remeber when the only way to kill one was to get lucky (log-offski) or use infiltration and questionable means (micro-SB)?

Now for some COAD badness: BoB has what, 4 titans? My god, what can possibly survive that sub-capital? You sound afraid to use it because of the cost involved. Its akin to people not wanting to PvP in +5 implants.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Truncation

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Originally by: magnus amadeus

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

mad guy

---

I'm sorry, I should have clarified. I didn't mean to single out you alone, but all three in that quote pyramid.

Care to address the problem of escalation though? Also, I mean just look at what those guys did with the smartbombing gate-camp trap, that was risky but at the same time great. That alone just goes to prove that you can have all the players and SP in the world, but smart thinking and sound strategy will produce results.

Really... in a MMO having OMGWTF ships that run around killing noobs by the thousands is not a good idea. *may be exaggerated just a tiny bit =P*

---

Its just funny, I remember no more than 6 months ago, owning a Titan was amazing, cool and useful. Now its a laugh. It was the ultimate goal of eve, now its how an eccentric rich weirdo spends his money. All it would take to fix that are a few simple changes, not overpowering ones and it keeps them vulnerable too. Is that really too much to ask? Let Evil Thug use his Titan the way he wishes he could, I want to hear about how someone accidentally doomsdays 1/2 of their fleet as we used to. These things were never overpowered, they were interesting. Now its no different than owning a silver magnate.

---

Originally by: Torment

---

I just cant see where the Devs are taking this game anymore
I hardly ever post on these forums as im too busy playing but without being rude some of the devs ideas and changes to makeing super caps more easily killable are bordering on incompetant.

It does seem that some of the new devs who come up with these ideas have maybe logged into the game once or twice at most.

The fallout you guys are going to get after these new Heavy dictors are released will be more than amusing,the reason being is because you just relase stuff now without really testing what it can do and run with the idea that if it dont workout you will just nerf it in a few months.

Super caps will die to easy now,be held down by a 100mill ship or a 30 mill one and will just fade out from being used(but that is probably your aim isnt it)

Ive played since early beta and its sad to think i will be closing my accounts after all this time(not just because of the nerf to supercaps and stuff,but because sadly i feel the direction ccp are going with the game and the devs who hold positions to change that is wrong from the start)

And yes you can have my stuff

---

Originally by: MOS DEF

---

Guess what: If you have enough support to keep the titan or mom alive safely thee is no need to use the titan or mothership in the first place because you allready won the bloody fight.

---

Originally by: Aeon Yakati

---

excellent argument

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Edited by: Davlin Lotze on 09/11/2007 18:38:48

Originally by: Aeon Yakati

---

excellent argument

---

What's really depressing here is that people won't read your argument. They will pass judgement on it because you are BoB. Or you are a supercap pilot as I am.

So arguements and discussion are useless now because the people that fly the ships, that know the most about them in terms of their real and actual roles\limitations, are effectively "silenced."

What we have now or are left with I should say, is a one sided political motivated debate with a sprinkle of whine and "gimme gimme for nothing" from new players or people trying to pass themselves off as "new player friendly."

And CCP is...

...falling
...for
...it

lock, stock, and barrel.

What CCP cannot understand it seems, is they are accomplices to the removal of anything resembling a "natural progression" of power that any MMO player expects as they put time and effort into any MMO and parlay their igenuity, hard work, and skills to actually possess something "distintively powerful" in whatever persistent world they are a part of.

We are left to ask, "how long would any MMO hold the attention of it's long time subscribers("power players") if there is "nothing to work for" or nothing to look forward to that is distinctive and worth aquiring????

---

Originally by: CCP Zulupark

---

That's the rough idea, yes. We still have in no way started thinking about what modules to introduce, what they would do or anything of the likes, but the idea is that.

---

Originally by: Ztrain

---

Edited by: Ztrain on 09/11/2007 18:57:43
I'd just like to know what the new end game is supposed to be. What's the goal to work twards. If your a newer player seeing how caps are now gonna suck I wouldn't train for them. Hell I'm wondering if I should continue to fly them.

So what is the new end game because at this point the rest sort of bores me. Doh 1 day left on this account from the first batch of cancellation.

Z

P.S. Nearly a month ago and CCP still hasn't given a reason for reactivating lol

---

Originally by: Ztrain

---

Edited by: Ztrain on 09/11/2007 18:57:43
I'd just like to know what the new end game is supposed to be. What's the goal to work twards. If your a newer player seeing how caps are now gonna suck I wouldn't train for them. Hell I'm wondering if I should continue to fly them.

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

And please just trust me on this: You dont want to be a part of any MMO that "has no end game" because without something to "look forward to" what is the point? What motivational synergy is present?

New content in the form of stuff that is largely an insignificant degree different from existing content is like having no new content at all. How long do MMO's without truly new and vibrant content last?

The dev team(or CCP upper management) needs to "pull their heads from the sand" soonish on this issue. Because players will quickly see through the facade of their "new stuff" and see its really nothing more than tweaked old stuff that isn't a step upward in any form or fashion.

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

And please just trust me on this: You dont want to be a part of any MMO that "has no end game" because without something to "look forward to" what is the point? What motivational synergy is present?

New content in the form of stuff that is largely an insignificant degree different from existing content is like having no new content at all. How long do MMO's without truly new and vibrant content last?

The dev team(or CCP upper management) needs to "pull their heads from the sand" soonish on this issue. Because players will quickly see through the facade of their "new stuff" and see its really nothing more than tweaked old stuff that isn't a step upward in any form or fashion.

---

Originally by: Aryth

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

And please just trust me on this: You dont want to be a part of any MMO that "has no end game" because without something to "look forward to" what is the point? What motivational synergy is present?

New content in the form of stuff that is largely an insignificant degree different from existing content is like having no new content at all. How long do MMO's without truly new and vibrant content last?

The dev team(or CCP upper management) needs to "pull their heads from the sand" soonish on this issue. Because players will quickly see through the facade of their "new stuff" and see its really nothing more than tweaked old stuff that isn't a step upward in any form or fashion.

---

Wait, so you believe everyone just wants to fly MS's and Titans because it is their Epic mount?

Lollerskates.

---

Originally by: Quutar

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

And please just trust me on this: You dont want to be a part of any MMO that "has no end game" because without something to "look forward to" what is the point? What motivational synergy is present?

New content in the form of stuff that is largely an insignificant degree different from existing content is like having no new content at all. How long do MMO's without truly new and vibrant content last?

The dev team(or CCP upper management) needs to "pull their heads from the sand" soonish on this issue. Because players will quickly see through the facade of their "new stuff" and see its really nothing more than tweaked old stuff that isn't a step upward in any form or fashion.

---

the end game of eve is 0.0 territory control

not a ship you fly... ships are rock-paper-scissors and should remain that way. there is nothing that is "the best"... there is roles to play, and countless variations such that there is never something unbeatable. In fact it should be such that when you become predictable you die, since the enemy can bring in the counter.

the end game is each other... no a ship to get into

---

Originally by: CCP Zulupark

---

Yes, that is indeed how it works.

With the focusing script in it, the Heavy Interdictor can scramble any ship and it works in low-security space.

---

Originally by: Cosmo Raata

---

Its just funny, I remember no more than 6 months ago, owning a Titan was amazing, cool and useful. Now its a laugh. It was the ultimate goal of eve, now its how an eccentric rich weirdo spends his money. All it would take to fix that are a few simple changes, not overpowering ones and it keeps them vulnerable too. Is that really too much to ask? Let Evil Thug use his Titan the way he wishes he could, I want to hear about how someone accidentally doomsdays 1/2 of their fleet as we used to. These things were never overpowered, they were interesting. Now its no different than owning a silver magnate.

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Are you suggesting that you have played Eve for however long that you have without a set of goals to pursue???? Why even bother accumulating isk\skills\etc???? What's the point w/o goals?

Common sense dictates that there HAS to be goals for people to pursue in any game.

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

blubbering

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Quutar

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

And please just trust me on this: You dont want to be a part of any MMO that "has no end game" because without something to "look forward to" what is the point? What motivational synergy is present?

New content in the form of stuff that is largely an insignificant degree different from existing content is like having no new content at all. How long do MMO's without truly new and vibrant content last?

The dev team(or CCP upper management) needs to "pull their heads from the sand" soonish on this issue. Because players will quickly see through the facade of their "new stuff" and see its really nothing more than tweaked old stuff that isn't a step upward in any form or fashion.

---

the end game of eve is 0.0 territory control

not a ship you fly... ships are rock-paper-scissors and should remain that way. there is nothing that is "the best"... there is roles to play, and countless variations such that there is never something unbeatable. In fact it should be such that when you become predictable you die, since the enemy can bring in the counter.

the end game is each other... no a ship to get into

---

Saying that 0,0 control and life is the End game and a ship type or class is not is simply confusing ends and means as somehow being separate. One is a means to an end. One pursues carriers, dreads, mothership, etc to enhance the power of the group they belong to and to forward their goal of 0,0 control\conquest.

The ship classes are goals. Don't be mistaken into thinking they are not. Some groups just want to pull the wool over the eyes of players and suggest that pursuing a "mastery of tech 2 ibises" is enough to maintain player interest. It's not.

---

Originally by: PauZotoh Zhaan

---

Originally by: CCP Zulupark

---

Yes, that is indeed how it works.

With the focusing script in it, the Heavy Interdictor can scramble any ship and it works in low-security space.

---

Then pls remove info in mothership ship that they are Immune to all forms of Electronic Warfare becouse its not true anymore. and what will happen if heavy dictor starts scrambling ANY ship at gate? will sentry shoot him??

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

---

Originally by: rodgerd

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Originally by: Andre Ricard

---

There is no end game to EVE. .

---

You're joking right? Tell me you don't really believe what you just said.

---

Funny, I was thinking the same thing about you. Eve's always been sold as a sandbox. For some people the end game is a navy Raven with a faction tank. For others it's controlling a region. For at least one player it's owning one of every item in Eve. For still more people it's making small ship combat viable when pussies in solopwnmobile capitals gatecamp.

Perhaps you need your hands held and to be gently pulled, like a toddler learning to walk, toward a goal, but quite a few players seem to be able to decide on their own goals and go from there.

---

Originally by: Davlin Lotze

---

Is it beyond your intellect to consider that there might be some who have done everything there is to do in a BS and smaller and bigger ships are vital parts of their goal structure?

---

Originally by: Digital Anarchist

---

How does the focus script work? Is it an extra setting on the bubble generator? Does focusing make the bubble work like a warp disruptor?

---