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ILikeMarkets
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2012.01.30 17:01:00 -
[211] - Quote
I figure CCP never intended EVE to break 50,000 concurrent users. Can you imagine the nightmare if there were 100,000 players on at once?
That's the hell we'd have to deal with if can flipping wasn't possible. Luckily, it is. The flippers help keep the population numbers at a respectable amount. Leave them to their work, please.
Protect highsec.-áWe are the 66%.
https://p.twimg.com/Ajc6KNBCQAAT9my.png (Source: https://twitter.com/ccp_diagoras ) |
arcca jeth
Dark Alliance
Dark Empire Alliance
60
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:03:00 -
[212] - Quote
I remember when I 1st got into mining, but it wasnt until I could fly an Osprey. Then I mined with a Rokh, jetcan mining.
But in all honesty, when I look back. I would have been better off running missions while training to fly the Hulk. I would have made a lot more isk while training up. Best advice I could give a prospective new player interested in mining would be just that. Run missions while training. and that's if you REALLY want to mine. Because after awhile, once that player gets to level 4's they may completely lose interest in mining.
if someone is being pestered by can flippers and bumpers/gankers. the best option is to move. there is nothing in highsec that you cannot find in another system that has less than 20 people online in it at any given time. |
Shazzam Vokanavom
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2012.01.30 17:03:00 -
[213] - Quote
Liam Mirren wrote:Here's a tip; if you WOULD put in effort to learn how gankers make profit or how can flipping works or anything else that affects you.... you might figure out how to counter it. And that really is the crux; if you're too lazy to learn how to avoid becoming a victim (by putting in effort to learn how and why things happen) then you only have yourself to blame.
I'll state it again, it's SUPER EASY to avoid being ganked or can flipped, like seriously easy. It doesn't involve massive, high SP ships, it doesn't involve fighting back and it doesn't involve 17 alts. All it requires is some effort and a bit of knowledge. So, why should we care for people who choose to not put in that effort? Why should a miner who puts in ZERO effort into securing his assets be just as safe as a miner who DOES put in that effort and time?
Yawn. Repeat ad infinitum. Must be an echo. How many times has this irrefutable point of view be forced down my throat as something I have to swallow.
Short of saying a big expletive: Old ground, read above.
But just to demonstrate your bias, how much SP does it take to fit a destroyer. Then compare that to the SP to be an effective miner, an effective refiner and an effect industrialist to make best economical oppurtunities and make a profit from the role to actually make any reasonable income. You'd be surprised how much is the answer. Its not just jump into a mining frigate and suddenly its all mai tais at 11 o'clock.
Someone find me a reasonable person who doesnt want to just get paid by Goonies in Hulkageddon, plz, I'm praying, no begging, WHERE IS THE SANITY ........... fizz, whip, bang, poof !!!
Tired now, having been overwhelmed by so many, and not being able to actually play internet spaceships. Play nice kiddies, know you wont. Some other babysitter will be by soon to infuriate you with reason shortly I'm sure. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4664
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:16:00 -
[214] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:As to Tippia, she is a pain and she jolly well knows it. Yes, I know that trolls get infuriated by me asking them to provide data or reasons or arguments to support their assertions. I also know that someone who has an actual point to make will have no problems doing the same.
Quote:She wont be happy until she has disected every last minute aspect of detail and then will deconstruct the scalpel, her facemask, gloves, the operating table then the theatre until she finds the answer to why the patient wasn't on the table to begin with.  Fun fact: deconstruction is a very useful technique for determining what the actual issue is.
Quote:I really don't mind reminding her how obtuse he/she is. The problem is that you should probably spend that energy on trying to explain the issue instead, since the supposed obtuseness is merely a tool to highlight the unfounded nature of the claims being made.
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:But just to demonstrate your bias, how much SP does it take to fit a destroyer. Then compare that to the SP to be an effective miner, an effective refiner and an effect industrialist to make best economical oppurtunities and make a profit from the role to actually make any reasonable income. You'd be surprised how much is the answer. No-one is surprised by the answer. What's surprising is that you think it's even remotely relevant to anything. In your own words: old ground, read above. EVE is not like any other game, where bigger is better, where higher price buys absolute or even proportionally higher effectiveness, and it most certainly isn't a game where GÇ£higher levelGÇ¥ is a ticket to success.
It's not a bias GÇö it's intentional game design. The ability for a low-SP destroyer to completely ruin a high-SP Hulk's day is proof positive that the game is working as intended. It most certainly isn't a problem in any shape or form.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Liam Mirren
207
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:23:00 -
[215] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:Yawn. Repeat ad infinitum. Must be an echo. How many times has this irrefutable point of view be forced down my throat as something I have to swallow.
Short of saying a big expletive: Old ground, read above.
I gets repeated because it's truth.
If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
My guides: http://mirren.freeforums.org |
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
146
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:30:00 -
[216] - Quote
Funny to watch you talk down to people who know far more about this game than you do.
How long to fly a dessie? About as long as it takes to train into DC II - which by itself, makes you invulnerable to most destroyers, as well as many Tornados. Oh, wait, but using a DCII would slightly slow down your mining efficiency, so thats right out, huh?
The amount of SP it takes to train the proper mods for tanking a Hulk are trivial compared to the length of time it takes to train the Large Projectile skills it takes to instapop even a badly tanked Hulk with a Tornado.
My point had little to do with epeen and more to do with:
I know a lot about Hulk tanks - and that make me a better ganker.
What little you did say shows you know jackshit about ganking - and, thus, you have no idea how to effectively counter it. Thus the whining to have 'mommy and daddy' change the conditions of the game because its 'so unfair'.
This game rewards knowledge and adaptability. It punishes stupidity and arrogance.
And thats why you mine and get ganked, while I do the ganking and make far more ISK doing it.
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Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
1318
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:38:00 -
[217] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Fun fact: deconstruction is a very useful technique for determining what the actual issue is.
Yep.
The reason why this is needed lies within those who don't use the proper words to describe the issues they have.
Wow, what a sentence. ^^
Don't blame Tippia for having to deconstruct most of the stuff that's written on the forum ... blame people for not
being exact and detailed about their thoughts and feelings.
TL;DR: Confirming Tippia. Wow, i really must be sick ... lol
Edit: I have experience in ganking and ganking gankers. I love them for being part of the game and for the ability to shoot
them just so (GCC) and i would never want them to get removed, simply because they are a valid part of the game and i
can blow their pods up when they are -5 or suicide their pods if they have bounty, but aren't criminals. ^^
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Argyle Jones
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
2
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Posted - 2012.01.30 17:41:00 -
[218] - Quote
Ludi Burek wrote:Shazzam Vokanavom, you seem to state yourself that eve shouldn't cater to the lowest common denominator. Who do you think is the victim in almost all gank cases? The lazy, ignorant people. Is that who you're defending?
I'm kinda split on the whole issue, but what you're saying here is a bit of a stretch. The ganker can fall on his prey at any time, in any place, meaning the prey has to be alert at all times. Just cause you fail to d-scan every 5 seconds for the whole time you're mining doesn't necessarily mean you're lazy or ignorant. Maybe you had to check the market, or someone sent you a convo or whatever...
I suppose it's not unfair to say that mining in an exhumer in empire space has essentially become just as dangerous than ratting in a battleship in 0.0, in the sense that a miner now has to check his d-scan constantly for catalysts and tornados and watch local for known gankers. Whether that is what CCP intends with high-security space or not I have no idea.
I just don't think it's a fair argument to say anyone who falls prey to a gank is lazy and stupid.
/Yargle
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Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos
55
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:46:00 -
[219] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Valentyn3 wrote:Don't use jet cans for mining? So old that forgot when you was new and flew ships that could not hold more then tiny amounts of ore?
I'm building an Industry alt. I know exactly how annoying it is. I have to either mine in a frig or destroyer and can mine...or mine in a cheap hauler with 5k storage.
Guess which I choose. I AFK mine and either play my main, another alt, read, or watch TV. Some day I make get ganked but I'm pulling a profit none the less.
Guess what I do when I see someone jet can mining. That's right, I wait for a while, meander on over, and take their ore.
Results in some serious lols actually. People get all kinds of passive aggressive. "Can't wait to catch you out in lowsec!"
I especially like when they put out secure containers in .9 systems and mine into them. I just cruise over and take the can, I don't even have to wait out an aggression timer in the station. Then I repackage, get the ore, and sell the can on the market. Guess who buys it...
What you never see me doing, is dropping a can...unless of course I'm trying to trick you into bending over.
What I am doing, which newbs probably don't know much about (which is why you should join a *good* corp), is setting up for the future. I'm training in skills I need to build stuff, training and occasionally grinding for standing so I get perfect refinement...tossing blueprints into labs that won't be finished for a very long time...In a few months my toon will actually be able to make ISK rather than suck it up.
The problem with a lot of newbs though is that they want to start out easy and be able to make piles and piles of ISK without working for it. I'm not making much of anything right now. I occasionally do a contract run that looks good but you can bet I'm working from the assumption that it's a scam every time. I play smart and take only those risks I'm willing to suffer. Instead of changing the game to be something else, this is what newbs need to be learning to do. Don't turn Chess into Sorry just because you can't figure it out immediately. |
Marduk Nibiru
Physical Chaos
56
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 17:56:00 -
[220] - Quote
Argyle Jones wrote:
I just don't think it's a fair argument to say anyone who falls prey to a gank is lazy and stupid.
/Yargle
I'd agree with this. If you're going to be a miner you need to work from the assumption that you're going to get ganked sometime. You need to learn how to mitigate the issue. Consider your ship cost as part of the operating cost of your ISK making scheme. Don't fly it if you can't afford to lose it. Get out of the pipelines. Consider some tank and/or warp stabs instead of those cargo extenders. Make it cost to kill you. Make it difficult to find you; most gankers are lazy, which is why they're after the lazy kills. I should know, I've done it many times.
For example, mine in some deep hole in some backwater system nobody goes to. Someday you'll get ganked there, but shouldn't be every day like all these newbs cry about. You'll need to do some hauling of course, which makes you vulnerable, but you should still be able to pull a profit.
I don't think that all those that get ganked are lazy or stupid. It's a part of eve. Even PvP players get ganked (anyone saying otherwise hasn't done real PvP yet because there's no way to avoid the surprise butt sex that's out there waiting). The people that are always bitching about it though....I think it IS fair to say they're lazy and/or stupid. |
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Grimpak
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
375
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 18:04:00 -
[221] - Quote
somebody tell this guy that hisec is supposed to be safer, not safe.
..or is he trollin'?
[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]
[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote]
ain't that right |
Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici
63
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 18:06:00 -
[222] - Quote
It happens. The first mistake is expecting completely 'safe' anything in a game that is obsessive about it's unrestricted PvP. The problem is that mindset, not that people actually will agress you in a space war game.
But newbies aren't really worth bothering with, and Eve is gigantic. Just move a couple jumps away and **** roids in peace. People that grief newbs are usually little more than that themselves.
Actual players have better things to do with their game time. It's actually fairly rare too in my experience- again, you're just not worth it.
Stop trying to mine in the market hub system, jump 2-3 away to some .5 high sec in a dead area and you can continue wasting your time mining all alone.
Pretty much anyone still playing after six months has gone thru the same thing in some capacity. I've been kept from mission running for paltry isk that I made at it, due to a war dec before I ever really understood the rules for it. I simply learned them.
It's also an MMO. If you want to do things in safety, then try numbers. Join a corp, or just one of the free boost fleets always offered in market hub/newbie systems.
The ability to steal or agress you unwillingly isn't a 'broken' mechanic- it's that any resource needs protecting, so you should be thinking of adding armed escort to mining operations, not simply letting you generate reward for no risk.
The can flipper risks little from provoking a newb, but also stands to gain little. The miner gains little solo mining in high sec, but also loses little when said flipper griefs them. That is a balanced system.
The higher end of this risk/reward scenario is null sec mining, which pays well but is wide open to attack. Likewise these miners don't just sit in barges watching television, they recognize increased risk for that reward and use armed escort. The people that look to attack these miners risk a great deal more, but of course the reward is substantially higher.
It's not broken. It's you.
And we all deal with the same thing, no matter what level we do it at. From newb mining to WH farming- someone will always be there to kill you and steal your stuff.
THAT IS EVE.
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Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
29
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 21:20:00 -
[223] - Quote
Shazzam Vokanavom wrote:Also show me the stats for the ones who got away? Where are they recorded, whats supporting those claims?
Well, now you're just being thick headed. You seriously think that everything has a 100% record on the other side of the fence?
Also, multiple times you state you aren't aware of any mechanics and "you don't need to be aware" to have your opinions. And you talk down to people with that attitude? The guy earlier asked you to describe how you could achieve the same thing he does and you just dismiss it but continue to hammer down you views.
Just come out already and admit you want full immunity. It's clear from your posts you're a opinionated scrub with extremely limited experience.
Also post with your main if you believe in what you're saying so much. I am. And yes, I would add you to the watch list, just like you suspect. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
285
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 21:22:00 -
[224] - Quote
he fears for his pixels, he can't post with his main
cuz i drop what i'm doing and move to highsec to terrorize everyone in GD that makes bad posts |
YUMAD BRO
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 21:47:00 -
[225] - Quote
Fnkn OP Tard
....I WAN NO GET SHOOTS
.......I NO LIKEY PEWPEW, LEAVE ME LONE!!
.......... I AM A FUKN NUB BOY THAT HAS NO CLUE WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT.
STFU and live with it or go back to Hello Kitty Island Adveture you TARD.
NUB |
J Kunjeh
357
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 21:56:00 -
[226] - Quote
YUMAD BRO wrote:Fnkn OP Tard
....I WAN NO GET SHOOTS
.......I NO LIKEY PEWPEW, LEAVE ME LONE!!
.......... I AM A FUKN NUB BOY THAT HAS NO CLUE WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT.
STFU and live with it or go back to Hello Kitty Island Adveture you TARD.
NUB
Wow...you're so coooo...and so hardkore.....can I be just like you? Puweeese?
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)"
(The Gospel of Philip, 1-5)-á |
Ehn Roh
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.01.30 22:01:00 -
[227] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:So, CCP wants to bring in more players in but on the other side does everything possible to keep them out.
Just a short story:
A relatively new player with a few months in EVE with not a bad ship and few totally fresh players all in High sec. A can flipper shows up and starts flying around bumping the newbies (5th or 7th flipper for the day for them). The one with not bad ship comes in so flipper warps out. Newbie picks up ore from the can (stupid move but hey, its a newbie and he have tons of things to learn so he forgets some) and moments later a nice fleet of can flipper with a much better ship and friends arrive. Of course all get owned. And all quit the game because they are sick and tired of can flippers, gankers and other sh*t.
CCP you want more players? Well may be instead of spending tons of money on useless advertisements you think about changing some mechanics of your own game so that people wont quit because your mechanics so flawed for new players and allow the exploits by some terribly bored vets who sit in their Titans and create alts out of boredom to go get their kicks on new players and then complain that there's not enough influx of players in the game.
I do understand an attempt to push players to other then High sectors. But with recent "buff to gankers" strategy all you do is pushing them out of the game.
You can't take the actions you described without getting a warning window or disabling the warning windows. They got what was coming to them.
I'm ok with a better explanation for noobs on what will get them in trouble, but the can mechanics should remain as they are. Either find a more secure way/location to mine or deal with the consequences.
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Tian Nu
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
44
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Posted - 2012.01.30 22:06:00 -
[228] - Quote
if you quit eve cos you lose one nice ship you are not suited to play eve so quiting well is quiter dream.
Father O'Malley about Darius III begging for whelp:
GÇ£Hows that working out for ya ? I make it 02:21 and all I see is you begging Riverini to get numbers and trying to recruit from the incursion public channel.GÇ¥ |
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1808
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Posted - 2012.01.30 22:08:00 -
[229] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:he fears for his pixels, he can't post with his main
cuz i drop what i'm doing and move to highsec to terrorize everyone in GD that makes bad posts
You don't?
andski for csm7~ |
Tarryn Nightstorm
Hellstar Towing and Recovery
208
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Posted - 2012.01.30 23:24:00 -
[230] - Quote
Alex Sinai wrote:Tarryn Nightstorm wrote:So, OP...How's all that GTC-financed ISK working out for you? /Me giggles....Locator agent running  Is urp-splosion tyme naow? Don't **** your pants when your locator finds. You funding your pvps with gtcs? Very bad habit. You know how to scan at all? Or farm sites.
Ah, no, that seems to be you. Most characters your age can't afford all those shinies, but I've noticed that, invariably, all that do,
A) Finance them through GTCs or illegally bought ISK from a illegitimate seller
B) Don't have the faintest clue what to do with/when to use them. (I mean, really: A CONCORD Smokescreen CovOps? On a wet paper aeroplane of a ship? That shows great insight )
C) Also invariably, they end up losing them in quite hilarious manners.
Yes, I know quite well how to farm wormhole sites (if that's the type to which you refer), and even better how to scan--If I know more or less where you are from d-scan, then you will be a warpable hit in less than 30 seconds, maximum. Same is true of any decent prober who knows what they're about and has the right ship and equipment.
I also know better than to waste faction missile-launchers on a Tier 1 battlecruiser that is nominally a gun-boat.
At least, I hope that you're using GTCs from an authorised seller, as that's a legit way to "buy ISK" quickly (if, in my view, a bit lame)...I do hope you didn't buy that ISK from...elsewhere.
I are kyute kitten!
I are in ur mishun!
Redoosin' teh lag by ninja'ing ur wrekz!
(CCP: Make wrecks probable, and after 30min., tractorable.) |
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
286
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:33:00 -
[231] - Quote
the above post is why npc forum alts exist |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
547
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:40:00 -
[232] - Quote
OMG, some of those fits make me want to punch myself... |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
286
|
Posted - 2012.01.30 23:41:00 -
[233] - Quote
Andski wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:he fears for his pixels, he can't post with his main
cuz i drop what i'm doing and move to highsec to terrorize everyone in GD that makes bad posts You don't?
http://dthi.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12276599
no need to move |
Serge Bastana
GWA Corp
72
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Posted - 2012.01.31 00:00:00 -
[234] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:OMG, some of those fits make me want to punch myself...
I just did as a warning to myself not to ever fit ships like that.
in other MMO's stupid people are annoying. In EVE they are a valuable resource
/facebrick for those times when /facepalm just isn't enough
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Borun Tal
Cubicle Warriors from 'merica
40
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Posted - 2012.01.31 00:51:00 -
[235] - Quote
tl;dr
Christ, can this thread be full of more fail than (notice i said THAN, and not "THEN") it already does?
OP, I'm sure someone here will tell you where to go for WoW or Hello Kitty Online. |
baltec1
518
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 00:53:00 -
[236] - Quote
I see my fittings advice was quickly forgotten. |
Superterrier
State War Academy
Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:18:00 -
[237] - Quote
Quick! Firesale your Anathemas! A goon was killed with a ship - nerf incoming! |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
282
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:21:00 -
[238] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:he fears for his pixels, he can't post with his main
cuz i drop what i'm doing and move to highsec to terrorize everyone in GD that makes bad posts
I just so happen to already be in highsec and happen to be looking for work in the space terrorism sector. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
109
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 01:30:00 -
[239] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mars Theran wrote:
I beg to differ. We had a 20 million Sp requirement on our Wormhole Corp for a reason. Take a Newb into an environment like that, and the best they can hope for is waiting until they can train up Gas-mining, mining, or scanning effectively enough to do something with it. Even then, it's not going to happen overnight, and they are still going to be sitting on their arses for the most part.
This
It's a wormhole Baltec. You get podded it's a one-way trip back to highsec, and you're probably not going to find a way back for a week or two. Do you honestly think one 4-5 minute fight resulting in two weeks seperated from your Corpmates in Highsec is fun?
TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |
MadMuppet
Kerguelen Station
108
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 02:35:00 -
[240] - Quote
If you jet can you are asking to get messed with. It you must jet can make a nearby safespot and do short jumps to jet can there. If you get flipped you NEED TO MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE! When I have jet canned I have never been flipped. Why? Because I moved away from starter systems. Get away from starter systems, get away from trade hubs and you can mine in 'relative' peace.
And if you have come to the forums crying about getting can flipped, pick a new profession, because you are now a tear magnet.
I know I left a battleship in this station. Wait, you can put ships in Station Containers? ****! I just trashed them. |
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