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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:47:00 - [1] DX9>Direct3D9 means Shadermodel 2.0,2.0a,2.0b too and not the Shadermodel 3.0 only @CCP thx for this hot Trailer but what i see on my Radeon X800XL (SM2.0b)(Dx9 Grafkcard)i nothing of your holy trinity rebirth dont call this upgrad DX9 upgrade call it DX9c only or DX9c-without-DX9,DX9a-and-DX9b-support-Upgrade all of this is yours...lol

CCP Wrangler	Posted - 2007.11.28 12:50:00 - [2] The Premium Graphics Content requires DX9c, yes. Wrangler Community Manager CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang "The trouble with having an open mind, of course, is that people will insist on coming along and trying to put things in it."

DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:05:00 - [3] may should delete the trininty Trailer from my desktop to stop thinking about and keep watching by the Revelation 2 Trailer or does CCP make an Trinity Classic Trailer for me and the other non-SM3 Dx9 Grafikcard users ?
Juha85 Beasts of Burden YouWhat	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:07:00 - [4] Originally by: DMF KingBob may should delete the trininty Trailer from my desktop to stop thinking about and keep watching by the Revelation 2 Trailer or does CCP make an Trinity Classic Trailer for me and the other non-SM3 Dx9 Grafikcard users ? So because your graphic card is from the stone age every other Eve-player should suffer from this and not get upgraded graphics? --------------------------------------- Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:11:00 - [5] Before CCP spoke of their new trinity engine, I never heard of a game company maintaining two 3d engines for the same game. Usually, it's no game if you have old computer and that's all. Here CCP is a step forward having now both a client for old computers and a client for shiny newer computers. Just be happy, you can play as before. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:28:00 - [6] Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 13:28:12 Bumpmapping is able on SM2 Dynamic Higher Resulution Shadows are able on SM2 Bloomeffect is able on SM2 Higher Polygon Models are able on SM2 Higher Resolution Texture is able on SM2 the only think is HDRR but it is able to use Bloom istead i do not understand this
Thuvia Carter	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Eleana Tomelac Before CCP spoke of their new trinity engine, I never heard of a game company maintaining two 3d engines for the same game. Usually, it's no game if you have old computer and that's all. Here CCP is a step forward having now both a client for old computers and a client for shiny newer computers. Just be happy, you can play as before. To clarify a little: There are not two 3d engines for the same game. Both 'versions' will use the same upgraded Trinity 2 engine. The only difference between Eve Classic and the 'upgraded' version is the textures and models used. And if you wan't to really get down to it, there won't be two different 'clients' either. Both start off with the Eve Classic client, and then have the option to download the additional textures and models. Do you remember back in the day of the original Half Life, when HL: Blue Shift was released it was included the 'High Definition Pack' with an update to the original HL and OpFor of new better models and textures? Think of it the same way.
Eleana Tomelac Gallente Through the Looking Glass	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:35:00 - [8] Do you know all the things the graphic engine can do? No, me neither. It may have yet unused features that they will use in the future but had already enough to do with the things they changed now. So, don't say 'it can work on SM2 fine', we don't know. They designed it like this, if you can do better, just show us the graphic engines you worked in. And... You can still play. -- Pocket drone carriers (tm) enthousiast ! Say hello to my tiny friends !
Hellcore Minmatar Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:48:00 - [9] The problem is more likely to be that using SM2.0 would require much more simplified shaders due to the 96 instruction limit? Yes this can be worked around by using multiple passes but what is the point if it makes it run like treacle?
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:54:00 - [10] You really have no idea what your talking about. DX9 and SM3.0 offer not only numerous additional rendering abilities but also greater efficiency. They are industry standard, and have been for the past two generations. EVE is joining modern times. Deal with it.
KingBobs Dawn	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:56:00 - [11] i know that it is easyer to program Shaders with SM3 but i hoped still that ccp not goes the easy way and think about grafikcards like my the step forwards seen like stupit ignoring a jump over the things between Dx8 and Dx9c and this is much much goodlooking things...
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.28 13:56:00 - [12] /not signed , don't see why 99% of EVE players should be held back by the few not willing to invest ú25 (yes, only ú25) in a new graphics card ? look here and buy , http://www.dabs.com/productlist.aspx?&CategorySelectedId=11137&NavigationKey=11137&PageMode=1&PageOffset=0&RecordOffset=0#Paging
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:05:00 - [13] I didn't know any gamers didn't have directx 9c yet. Get with the times! I think every game I've bought this year has required it, and video cards are cheaper and more powerful than ever.
Riho Northen Breeze	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:14:00 - [14] Originally by: DMF KingBob DX9>Direct3D9 means Shadermodel 2.0,2.0a,2.0b too and not the Shadermodel 3.0 only @CCP thx for this hot Trailer but what i see on my Radeon X800XL (SM2.0b)(Dx9 Grafkcard)i nothing of your holy trinity rebirth dont call this upgrad DX9 upgrade call it DX9c only or DX9c-without-DX9,DX9a-and-DX9b-support-Upgrade all of this is yours...lol there are some really cheap shader 3 cards out there.. unless your broke as hell or too young to make money for your self. i had x800pro before my new pc and card.. it ran everything fine... but i wanted shader 3 :) so got myself a 8800gts. not the cheapest of things.. but when i buy a pc i buy a pc that runs games maxed for years :D
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:25:00 - [15] no not every for bio shock exist a shader fix for SM2 Supreme Commander shows me a good Grafik Call of Duty 4 too Unreal Tournament 3 too TES4 Oblivion too Prey too Crysis too!!!(yes i know the framerate is not the best) failed SM2 support on a DX9 game seem for me as uncomplete or qualityfault my grafikcard supports Dx9b this is really near to Dx9c but for ccp ist this the same like DX8
Ichi Chirotha Stellar Convertors	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Juha85 Originally by: DMF KingBob may should delete the trininty Trailer from my desktop to stop thinking about and keep watching by the Revelation 2 Trailer or does CCP make an Trinity Classic Trailer for me and the other non-SM3 Dx9 Grafikcard users ? So because your graphic card is from the stone age every other Eve-player should suffer from this and not get upgraded graphics? halt die Fresse noob? O_o
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:31:00 - [17] Edited by: MalVortex on 28/11/2007 14:35:28 Edited, cause I'm tired: Ok, I lied. X800s cant run DX9.0C. This doesn't surprise me though, as old ATI cards always have had terrible PS support, why not throw on DX functionality as well? Also, most of the games you listed likley wont run on that card at all. They all will require DX9.0C. But seriously, stop whining. Even if the new engine with classic eve is no longer playable, a shiny new SM3.0 DX9C card can be had for dirt cheap prices.
Ulstan	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:33:00 - [18] Quote: no not every ...TES4 Oblivion too http://www.oblivionportal.com/info/systemreq.php Quote: DirectX 9.0c (included) Get a video card that supports 9.0c and stop whining. Oh and stop with the ridiculous 'grafik' nonsense.

CCP Explorer	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:37:00 - [19] There is a really good reason for requiring SM 3 for the new Premium Graphics Content in EVE Online: Trinity. We use very complicated shaders in the new art content with much more instructions than SM 2 supports. Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson Software Director EVE Online, CCP Games

dor amwar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:38:00 - [20] not really sure what is going on with my laptop (ya ya, i know) card. it's listed as mobility firegl v3200 and failed the test that was posted by the devs a bit ago. research and sure enough it only has sm 2.0. fine no prob. but when i start looking a little closer i notice a few things. - dxdiag is showing directx 9.0c. afaik (probably wrong though) that only works on cards that are capable of sm 3.0 - all the research that i did shows it as a 128 MB pci card but the stats on the card is 256 MB pci. not an agp mismatch then. - some of the bios and chip numbers look to be a revision higher as well. probably just a ibm oem thing but not sure. any pros out there can clarify?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Juha85 So because your graphic card is from the stone age every other Eve-player should suffer from this and not get upgraded graphics? Or maybe because many of us play on laptops? Even the embedded Intel graphics chips that are shipping TODAY do not meet shader 3.0 standards I know, discreet video cards. But I had to use what work gives me..... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Sleepkevert	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:44:00 - [22] Originally by: DMF KingBob no not every Originally by: DMF KingBob for bio shock exist a shader fix for SM2 Yeah, go and hack EVE while your at it. The SM2 engine isn't supported in bioshock, so why should CCP do it when they are even giveing you a DX8 engine to play with... Originally by: DMF KingBob Supreme Commander shows me a good Grafics =/ You'r telling me you can run supcom on high settings smoothly? No? Then stop whining about not being able to run EVE on high settings... Originally by: DMF KingBob Call of Duty 4 too Again, not on high settings, just put it on low, just like you will do with EVE Originally by: DMF KingBob Unreal Tournament 3 too Same as above... Originally by: DMF KingBob TES4 Oblivion too Low settings? amirite? Originally by: DMF KingBob Prey too Prey is old... Originally by: DMF KingBob Crysis too!!!(yes i know the framerate is not the best) Then be glad you get a decent framerate with EvE on low settings! Originally by: DMF KingBob failed SM2 support on a DX9 game seem for me as incomplete or (wierd spelled word) my graficscard supports Dx9b this is really near to Dx9c but for ccp this is the same like DX8 Failed SM2 support? There isn't any support from starters, it's a SM3 engine, and it will stay that way... Also, nearly isn't good enough. It's there or it isn't... _______ Sign my sig!
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:45:00 - [23] Edited by: Anaalys Fluuterby on 28/11/2007 14:45:25 Originally by: dor amwar - dxdiag is showing directx 9.0c. afaik (probably wrong though) that only works on cards that are capable of sm 3.0 DirectX 9.0c will run on a card like the Cirrus Logic 5446 that doesn't even have shader support. But you get no acceleration or the DirectX "features". Quote: - all the research that i did shows it as a 128 MB pci card but the stats on the card is 256 MB pci. not an agp mismatch then. The card probably has 128 built on, with the option to use 128 of system memory. Unless you are running really high resolutions you will probably get a little better performance out of it if you restrict it to its base 128. Quote: - some of the bios and chip numbers look to be a revision higher as well. probably just a ibm oem thing but not sure. any pros out there can clarify? Funny thing about Thinkpads is that each sub-model (the -UHVH etc after the model number) can have greatly differing specs. A T60 isn't a T60, isn't a T60... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Orivanna	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:45:00 - [24] Edited by: Orivanna on 28/11/2007 14:47:00 edit
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:46:00 - [25] My $350 HP laptop has an integrated 6200. It has SM3.0. Work laptops don't have dedicated GPUs... bites tounge you don't say? And for the other poster, DX9.0C and SM3.0 Are completely different standards and do different things. A card can support DX9.0 and not have SM3.0 support (many older ATI cards are notorious for this)
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:53:00 - [26] no i mean oblivion shows me DX9b content for DX9b Grafikcard (allready fine) or DX9c cantent for a DX9c Grafikcard EVE-Online Trinity shows me DX8 content for a Dx9-Dx9b Grafikcard the Dx9-Dx9b content still not exist(thats what i mean with the easy way)
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.11.28 14:55:00 - [27] . . . There is no such thing as DX9 or DX9B "content". There never was, there never will be. Go wikipedia Direct X. Or something. Just... stop.
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:14:00 - [28] just say what grafikcard did u use ?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:17:00 - [29] Originally by: MalVortex My $350 HP laptop has an integrated 6200. It has SM3.0. Work laptops don't have dedicated GPUs... bites tounge you don't say? No, read again. I said the laptop MY work provided me has the crappy Intel setup. You know, that one required for the "Centrino" buzz-word that everyone that doesn't know has bought into? My wife's cheapie has a 6200 also. Shader 3 is painfully slow on it though; I would stay with the legacy setup on it... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
MalVortex	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:18:00 - [30] Edited by: MalVortex on 28/11/2007 15:20:59 PS3.0 is included in DX9.0C. Direct X works in an "all of the above system". You can install DX 9.0C on anything. The card will simply execute the content up to its level. If the card can't support DX9.0C standard, it will execute all the content that it can. Presuming its not a drastic difference this means you'll get things like no HDR, no shaders, no texture filters, but a core game thats still operable. For large differences, the game will either refuse to run or crash rapidly. If MS wasnt trying to ***** out DX10 as a vista selling point, wed all be installing DX 10.1 right now. Of course, thats not the case, hence the reason why theres two currently supported DX versions for the first time. Edit: sorry, I reread your post and I still can't read it as anything but a whine against improved client with SM3.0 support. Your second post doesn't sound like a whine though, so I'm probably too tired to read it correctly. Yay insomnia?
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.28 15:47:00 - [31] I don't want fancier graphics. I want simpler graphics, less effects. DirectX 1 if you will. Solid gouraud under 20 polygon models. Seriously. And you know there's more people who would like to have this kind of graphics too.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:28:00 - [32] Originally by: Trishan I don't want fancier graphics. I want simpler graphics, less effects. DirectX 1 if you will. Solid gouraud under 20 polygon models. Seriously. And you know there's more people who would like to have this kind of graphics too. In short, you want old-school Elite? SM3 graphics cards aren't that hard to come across for desktops, any NVidia Series 6, 7 or 8 and any ATI Radeon X1 or X2 generation card will work. You can even find a few out there for AGP 8x slots, for those with older motherboards. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:37:00 - [33] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 28/11/2007 16:37:22 Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: MalVortex My $350 HP laptop has an integrated 6200. It has SM3.0. Work laptops don't have dedicated GPUs... bites tounge you don't say? No, read again. I said the laptop MY work provided me has the crappy Intel setup. You know, that one required for the "Centrino" buzz-word that everyone that doesn't know has bought into? My wife's cheapie has a 6200 also. Shader 3 is painfully slow on it though; I would stay with the legacy setup on it... My laptop is a centrino duo and it supports SM3.0. Anyway (to all whiners, not you personally), CCP are still supporting the old client, which is more than most companies would do, so STFU. - I wish I was a three foot female doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes.
Wolverine PL Gallente xtort Rare Faction	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:48:00 - [34] Good that trinity will req only dx9c, I dont need to install that sh*** Vista
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 16:58:00 - [35] yes nobody want support microsofts next-gen-grafik-only-at-our-new-expensiv-sennsless-operratingsystem-tactic
Grez Minmatar e X i l e Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:02:00 - [36] DX9.0c is not the same as SM3.0. Just because your card supports DX9.0c games, doesn't mean it supports SM3.0. Also, what's all this whining about not being able to play any more? The classic (old) engine is still being supported, so you can still run EVE as you can now. Want to play EVE on high settings? Get a computer setup that can support it. Just like every other game. ---
Scorp Gallente Bladerunners Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:05:00 - [37] I'm sorry if I am geting the wrong side of this moan and winge, but are you complaining about a supported feature that with your setup you wouldn't even be able to run any way? your kidding right? Try running your system spec with the premium engine with anything beyond a few things going on. Your system will die. Just as an example and its a very poor one at the moment. trinity is very 'unstable' at the moment. Yes it doesnt crash or die but due to the fact the optimizations aren't in place on the current engine it kills itself on frame rate. Ask any body with a high end system at the moment (something like a 8800 with at least a 2.7ghz core2 and at least 2gig of memory) the game kills itself if you zoom out (yes zoom out) on the station in FD, with around 40 people outside. This isn't a mock at your setup or anything its the fact you expect to run a high end client on a low end spec. You can hack all these great games you like. SupCom etc arent ment to be supported on your setup its as simple as that. Ever thought these standards are in place for these type of reasons? Linkeh Pooh
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:19:00 - [38] Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08 A64 x2 3800 3gb ram x800xl this is not low end dude ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware
Jakus Cemendur Caldari The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:22:00 - [39] It's low end if it doesn't have a shader model 3 GPU, especially given how long shader model 3 GPUs have been out.
Cardice Makar Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Scorp Just as an example and its a very poor one at the moment. trinity is very 'unstable' at the moment. Yes it doesnt crash or die but due to the fact the optimizations aren't in place on the current engine it kills itself on frame rate. Ask any body with a high end system at the moment (something like a 8800 with at least a 2.7ghz core2 and at least 2gig of memory) the game kills itself if you zoom out (yes zoom out) on the station in FD, with around 40 people outside. There's a certain amount of truth to this. I believe the rendering optimizations are in place, but there are still some issues. I have a feeling that the issues we're seeing here won't be fixed for a while, though they're certainly addressable in the long run. I get very acceptable framerates generally, on both the premium and classic clients. When I first loaded up the Premium client, I instinctively set all graphics settings to their max. I have to admit, it looked pretty, but the performance hit was significant. Upon further consideration, I dropped the shadow-level and my fps increased dramatically. Shadow calculations, especially with shadow-maps, is not an easy process in EVE... there are a large number of entities involved. As it stands, I've forced AA and AS in the driver settings and use HDR in game. With Normal shadows, in FD-, I see about 40-60 fps. This is respectable, no doubt about it. In a skirmish warfare with about 30-v-30 on the classic client, I would see about the same fps counts, and in FD- you can generally assume there's about 40-60 people outside station at any given time. I have to say I'm fairly impressed with the client as a whole. It's very pretty. But I know for a fact that architecturally the X800 series just isn't up to par. I owned one, afterall. Even with the Bioshock 'bastardization' it looks quite superior on a true SM3 card. The investment to buy a nv6X series card is not that high, and they come in AGP variations. SM3 is a great deal better than SM2. [Hardware, for your consideration: c2d - Q6600, 8800GT, 2gb of ram]
Hatch Minmatar Cloak and Daggers Knights Of Syndicate	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:28:00 - [41] ok, sm3 is a limitation based on your video card. DirectX has no bearing on wether or not your card is sm3 ready. To tell wether or not your card is sm3 ready, go read the technical specs of the card itself. Mine will handle up to sm4 :P
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:29:00 - [42] for you is it low for other is it a dream....or simple acceptable
achoura	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:39:00 - [43] Long version: I agree it isnt low end, but that card is, in fact its pretty crappy. I mean every game since bf2 installs dx9.c by default which is when i bought my 7800gt and it's running this stuff well at 1680x1050 but even i know it's needing upgraded in the next few months just to keep up with technology and on that note graphics cards really haven't been this cheap or powerful ever. I paid ú225 for this 7800gt, the dx10 equivalent the 8800gt is ú170 so i am not complaining. Least it's going to be even cheaper when i need it. Short version: Technological advancement is not going to stop today because you need to buy a new card to replace you old one to play a game which is actually only being upgraded to last generations technology. If it weren't for people like you with older cards we would be recieveing a dx10 upgrade instead.
Lulu Nakura Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 17:43:00 - [44] ehh... has anyone said not to feed the trolls yet? -Lulu
St'oto Yarrrateers	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:32:00 - [45] go buy a Nvidia Geforce 7900 GT it runs the new graphics engine + the models like a dream. Plus its not that expensive. I love this card even tho this christmas im upgrading to a 8800 GT
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:35:00 - [46] Originally by: Crumplecorn Anyway (to all whiners, not you personally), CCP are still supporting the old client, which is more than most companies would do, so STFU. I know, and am very happy they are. I was just responding to the comment of "There isn't any reason you can't run SM 3.0 blah blah blah"... There are situations that can prohibit it. My main machine has a higher-end x1950 and is fine. But I'm always in the living room with the family instead of hiding in the computer room..... Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:38:00 - [47] still waiting for Radeon HD3600xt or have my eyes of this http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a293843.html
Kyra Felann Gallente Red Eye .Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.28 18:49:00 - [48] Originally by: Juha85 Originally by: DMF KingBob may should delete the trininty Trailer from my desktop to stop thinking about and keep watching by the Revelation 2 Trailer or does CCP make an Trinity Classic Trailer for me and the other non-SM3 Dx9 Grafikcard users ? So because your graphic card is from the stone age every other Eve-player should suffer from this and not get upgraded graphics? +1
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Eve University	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:30:00 - [49] My integrated Quadro FX Go1400* (yes, gaming with a mobile NVIDIA Quadro card, LULZ) that is three-plus years old on my 2.6 year old laptop supports SM 3.0. I think it is perfectly reasonable for CCP to develop and optimize graphics content runnable on cards from multiple generations ago ... and as mentioned above, they still allow for the non SM3 graphics ... /not signed *IIRC it's based on the GeForce 6800, with alterations to run autocad/etc. software better at the expense of most games.
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:34:00 - [50] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Originally by: Trishan I don't want fancier graphics. I want simpler graphics, less effects. DirectX 1 if you will. Solid gouraud under 20 polygon models. Seriously. And you know there's more people who would like to have this kind of graphics too. In short, you want old-school Elite? SM3 graphics cards aren't that hard to come across for desktops, any NVidia Series 6, 7 or 8 and any ATI Radeon X1 or X2 generation card will work. You can even find a few out there for AGP 8x slots, for those with older motherboards. Well, if you put it that way... yes :) But then I still play angband... and omega...
Solbright altaltaltaltt	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:35:00 - [51] As long as the new classic client renderer is updated with more hardware rendering, and hopefully will be faster than premium client, I'll never want to change. Give me zero stuttering and I'll be happy with wire frames.
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:53:00 - [52] Originally by: CCP Explorer There is a really good reason for requiring SM 3 for the new Premium Graphics Content in EVE Online: Trinity. We use very complicated shaders in the new art content with much more instructions than SM 2 supports. Tongue-in-cheek , but... There's this thing called optimization, ever heard of it? --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
Gallatyn	Posted - 2007.11.28 19:58:00 - [53] we should be happy that the new trinity engine doesn¦t require dx10. it would be no fun to use this crap os called windows vista.
Eternal Hatred Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies BROTHER'S WORD	Posted - 2007.11.28 20:29:00 - [54] I demand CCP cancel this STUPID and rasist patch that will not tolerate SM 2.0 people and work with stoneage technology!!!!! __________________________________________ I'm a well known whorum warriors alt and my lucky number is 733113. It's great being an Amarr
M1AU The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.28 20:42:00 - [55] I'll vote for SM 2.0.
Alex75a	Posted - 2007.11.28 21:22:00 - [56] /signed vote for SM 2.0.
petergriffen Amarr Dufrene Holdings. INC	Posted - 2007.11.28 21:40:00 - [57] Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Originally by: CCP Explorer There is a really good reason for requiring SM 3 for the new Premium Graphics Content in EVE Online: Trinity. We use very complicated shaders in the new art content with much more instructions than SM 2 supports. Tongue-in-cheek , but... There's this thing called optimization, ever heard of it? Yes, optimization to SM2 is called SM3. They upgraded, you should too!
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:35:00 - [58] Sorry guys(the SM2 fanboys) but even though I am trying to be sympathetic I still don't get it ? CCP has stated they will maintain 2 versions for us, SM2 and SM3(and by next year we will have 3 versions if you include DX10) , this way no one will be inconvenienced, you can use SM2 so what's the problem ? [url=http://www.eve-online.com/patches/patches.asp?s=singularity]SiSi new graphics patch Manual download[/url]
Sleepkevert	Posted - 2007.11.29 08:52:00 - [59] Lets put it this way... SM2 is included in the classic engine! (no it isn't but you'll be able to run it anyway.) Now stop whining... _______ Sign my sig!
M1AU The X-Trading Company Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:21:00 - [60] Originally by: petergriffen Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08 A64 x2 3800 3gb ram x800xl this is not low end dude ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware That's pretty low end for a gaming machine, to be honest to the others wishing for SM2 - Upgrade your computer. If you don't want to, then use the classic graphics. If you don't want to... ...can I have your stuff? My computer is up to date and my graphics card supports SM 3.0. Unfortunately the "supported" wrapper client does not, well guess they already working on that... Even though SM 2.0 would reach much more customers ... in my opinion.
Vergil 577 Gallente MAIDS Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:27:00 - [61] For all those people complaining I'd just like to clarify the old graphics engine is still available the old graphics engine does not affect your game play (Other than fps differences). For those complaining about the Trinity graphics not being SM2.0 compatible it's because your graphics card is simply unable to process the data required it's a hardware limitation not the fault of CCP. And for an SM 3.0 graphics card you could try a 6600GT if you have DX 9.0 it has software support for SM 3.0 which just so happens to be what I'm using currently. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone but this is a physical limitation of your hardware. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ChimeraRouge Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:28:00 - [62] /signed SM2.0 only please
Dristra Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:38:00 - [63] Originally by: Juha85 Originally by: DMF KingBob may should delete the trininty Trailer from my desktop to stop thinking about and keep watching by the Revelation 2 Trailer or does CCP make an Trinity Classic Trailer for me and the other non-SM3 Dx9 Grafikcard users ? So because your graphic card is from the stone age every other Eve-player should suffer from this and not get upgraded graphics? Well said. It's great being Amarr isn't it. Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Matrix Aran Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:40:00 - [64] At this stage it's far to late to ask for SM2 support. The engine has been coded and in development for the past year, let alone the fact the moddels were designed to use SM3 (Normal Maping, Bloom, HDR, etc..). Anyone still using an AGP motherboard can visit thier local PC graveyard and easily salvage a 6800 series GeForce card which will allow you to experience SM3 at the lovely 10 frames a second you insist on enjoying. Should you feel this isn't fast enough for 350Ç you can build a new PC with a PCI-E slot and access to far better cards for the next three years. For anyone whom does not want to spend money on a new computer, trinity classic is still avalible and will probably be the client of choice for PVPers for years to come. ----
Vergil 577 Gallente MAIDS Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 09:43:00 - [65] Originally by: Matrix Aran Anyone still using an AGP motherboard can visit thier local PC graveyard and easily salvage a 6800 series GeForce card which will allow you to experience SM3 at the lovely 10 frames a second you insist on enjoying Actually my 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 AGP 8x doesn't seem to run that slow as long as I don't do something stupid like turn bloom rendering on, mind you this graphics card is an ancient build of graphics card with the 7 and 8 series already out. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nye Jaran	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:07:00 - [66] Originally by: ChimeraRouge /signed SM2.0 only please Blow that! There's no reason I should get nice shiny graphics because your graphics card can't support it. Just run low settings / don't snag the new textures and you'll be all good. I'll run max settings with every option turned on with the new textures and I'll be all good.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:57:00 - [67] CCP have every right (nay an obligation) to develop their graphics engine using industry standard technologies, and this means that the SM3 requirement for the new models is perfectly justifiable. For the record, I run on an old Radeon 9800. It would have been nice to see a hardware survey done to see how many of their customers really would benefit from this. Trinity has long been touted as the best thing to happen to eve in a long while, and I find the lack of an early announcement that those who have not yet switched onto a PCI-E based system with the relevant generation of graphics card would see no benefit of it. Hell, even using classic content I've lost a good 10-15 FPS on average and experience frequent loss of textures and slow texture loading times. I can only dread how this will affect combat... In short, I feel the release of this engine has been done in a disingenuous manner, but I will not sign for SM2 only. I'd love to see some graphical upgrades for us low end users (new textures please?) but CCP should use whatever technologies at their disposal they can to get the best performance and aesthetics out of their content. I digress though. I know I for one lost interest in eve a while back, and was holding off to see what Trinity would be like; too see if a graphical upgrade could pique my interest in the game again. From what I've seen, my subscription will not be renewed. For those of you who will doutbless ask, my stuff stays with me: I will be back when I can justify the outlay to replace my entire rig to play a single game. To summarise, the users should have been surveyed on their hardware to see just how much of the community would be left "hanging" with this change, and it would be nice to see some graphical update for lower end machines - even if it's just improved texturing, which certainly would not require SM3...
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 10:58:00 - [68] Originally by: St'oto go buy a Nvidia Geforce 7900 GT it runs the new graphics engine + the models like a dream. Plus its not that expensive. I love this card even tho this christmas im upgrading to a 8800 GT My advice is to get an x1900GT/x1950GT since they are faster/cheaper than the 7900GT --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:01:00 - [69] Originally by: Cedric Diggory CCP have every right (nay an obligation) to develop their graphics engine using industry standard technologies, and this means that the SM3 requirement for the new models is perfectly justifiable. For the record, I run on an old Radeon 9800. It would have been nice to see a hardware survey done to see how many of their customers really would benefit from this. Trinity has long been touted as the best thing to happen to eve in a long while, and I find the lack of an early announcement that those who have not yet switched onto a PCI-E based system with the relevant generation of graphics card would see no benefit of it. Hell, even using classic content I've lost a good 10-15 FPS on average and experience frequent loss of textures and slow texture loading times. I can only dread how this will affect combat... In short, I feel the release of this engine has been done in a disingenuous manner, but I will not sign for SM2 only. I'd love to see some graphical upgrades for us low end users (new textures please?) but CCP should use whatever technologies at their disposal they can to get the best performance and aesthetics out of their content. I digress though. I know I for one lost interest in eve a while back, and was holding off to see what Trinity would be like; too see if a graphical upgrade could pique my interest in the game again. From what I've seen, my subscription will not be renewed. For those of you who will doutbless ask, my stuff stays with me: I will be back when I can justify the outlay to replace my entire rig to play a single game. To summarise, the users should have been surveyed on their hardware to see just how much of the community would be left "hanging" with this change, and it would be nice to see some graphical update for lower end machines - even if it's just improved texturing, which certainly would not require SM3... The shaders are too long for SM2 so unless you want them to waste a couple of years of coding time on an obsolete set of graphics cards that in a year or two will hardly be around, well........ --------------------------------- Oh noes!
Maliber Art of War	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:13:00 - [70] Edited by: Maliber on 29/11/2007 11:15:03 pfff go buy a new card or go cry somewhere else. CCP has done a nice job with the new graphics and im sorry they didnt specificly tailer everything just for you. I mean if you can afford to play the game you can afford a older sm 3.0 compatible card. p.s. you can alway grind the isk for 2 gametimecards and save you subscibtion money and buy a card from that.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:14:00 - [71] Originally by: DMF KingBob no not every for bio shock exist a shader fix for SM2 Supreme Commander shows me a good Grafik Call of Duty 4 too Unreal Tournament 3 too TES4 Oblivion too Prey too Crysis too!!!(yes i know the framerate is not the best) yes, but eve doesn't :-P sux to be you, eh?
Jimbob McKracken Caldari The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:27:00 - [72] Edited by: Jimbob McKracken on 29/11/2007 11:30:39 EBAY is your friend, seriously guys. Maybe if you had gone for cards with decent SM support, all those years ago, instead of the highest numbers in 3D Mark you might be able to run the new Trinity client. One of my friends recently picked up a 7600GT for around ú40, sure its not cutting edge but you'd be able to run Trinity at 1024 x 768. If you want something more "high end" there are 7900GT from around ú50 - ú80. It's not a huge amount of money, especially with christmas near, and more to the point EvE is nearly 10 years old and its hardware requirements have hardly changed. CCP wanted something that would look good in 5 years time, supporting SM2 would be such a monumentally stupid move, how can an engine be futureproofed if its designed to run on cards from 5 years ago, cards like the ATI X8 series. At least if your running an Nvidia 6 series you can smile right now. I whole heartedly appove of the SM3 engine and would quit EvE if they spend development time on their "new" engine to incorporate support for computers too old to run the fancy graphics in the first place. PC's have never been cheaper - Upgrade or play classic. EDIT - At least CCP are maintaining the old client there are companies that would have just abandoned the old client.
Reiisha Splint Eye Probabilities Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:29:00 - [73] Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08 A64 x2 3800 3gb ram x800xl this is not low end dude ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware They have, and decided that people don't need new hardware to keep playing the game. You can still play the game, albeit at a dx8 level. First, your card is 3 years old now. Trinity has been made to be new, not old. Trinity are the high settings in the game, which require sm3.0. Your card is not compliant with dx9.0c, it is only compatible. Note the difference between those words. You cannot enable all effects in Crysis, you can't go beyond low settings in that game. It's the same in EVE, you can't go beyond low settings, ie the old engine. The new engine are the high settings, for newer cards. Your card isn't new. If you still aren't getting this, please kill yourself, as you are a danger to our evolution. EVE History Wiki
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:44:00 - [74] Quote: pfff go buy a new card or go cry somewhere else. CCP has done a nice job with the new graphics and im sorry they didnt specificly tailer everything just for you. I mean if you can afford to play the game you can afford a older sm 3.0 compatible card. I work as an IT admin, and as such can create a "hardware failure" at the office that will enable me to get an SM3 compatible AGP card for my home rig. However, to be able to do anything more than look at the new engine struggling away at 10-15fps, I will require to replace my entire rig - it's certainly getting a little long in the tooth now, but from a personal perspective I can't justify the outlay of a new PSU/Motherboard/CPU/Memory/Graphics for a single game. The simple fact is that with the introduction of the Premium content and no change to the Classic content, there now exists a bigger gulf between graphical quality in Eve than in any other game I know. It's for this reason alone that I post here. I simply wish that we users had been surveyed and/or been told in no uncertain terms that the time is now, start planning that new rig. It's not a whine, it's a lament!
Kina Putten Amarr Noble House	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:49:00 - [75] Just use the old gfx, it's faster and there are no bugs. All we got from this new gfx is louse performance and nothing else, alltho we were promised better performance with this new stuff. Fact is, they added new shiney stuff for kids to look at and yammer about, but none of this will change gameplay. And TBFH it's not all that great anyways.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 11:58:00 - [76] Originally by: Cedric Diggory I work as an IT admin, and as such can create a "hardware failure" at the office that will enable me to get an SM3 compatible AGP card for my home rig. However, to be able to do anything more than look at the new engine struggling away at 10-15fps, I will require to replace my entire rig - it's certainly getting a little long in the tooth now, but from a personal perspective I can't justify the outlay of a new PSU/Motherboard/CPU/Memory/Graphics for a single game. The simple fact is that with the introduction of the Premium content and no change to the Classic content, there now exists a bigger gulf between graphical quality in Eve than in any other game I know. It's for this reason alone that I post here. I simply wish that we users had been surveyed and/or been told in no uncertain terms that the time is now, start planning that new rig. It's not a whine, it's a lament! It does not in any way make sense for ccp to make a new engine if they base it on outdated technology. The old engine will still be supported so what is the problem? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Sleepkevert	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:00:00 - [77] Originally by: Kina Putten Just use the old gfx, it's faster and there are no bugs. All we got from this new gfx is louse performance and nothing else, alltho we were promised better performance with this new stuff. Fact is, they added new shiney stuff for kids to look at and yammer about, but none of this will change gameplay. And TBFH it's not all that great anyways. Try turning everything off (shadows to none, AA off, HDR off) And tell me again how the performance has decreased... Off course, running everything with the fancy stuff on high settings requires a hell of a machine (one that currently doesn't exist, even the latest 8xxx series from nVida get single digits FPS on extreme settings ) _______ Sign my sig!
Coeleth The Divine Comedy	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:06:00 - [78] The dx8 graphics work fine on SiSi right now :) Meanwhile, you can buy an agp SM3.0 nvidia or ati card for nothing. In fact, the absolute best agp nvidia card you can get, which is, I believe, the 7950GT, only costs about ú135 and I'm sure it'll run trinity just fine. My 6600LE just ran trinity just fine in a fleet fight on Sisi with HDR turned on, so what's the panic people?
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:18:00 - [79] Originally by: Reiisha Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08 A64 x2 3800 3gb ram x800xl this is not low end dude ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware They have, and decided that people don't need new hardware to keep playing the game. You can still play the game, albeit at a dx8 level. First, your card is 3 years old now. Trinity has been made to be new, not old. Trinity are the high settings in the game, which require sm3.0. Your card is not compliant with dx9.0c, it is only compatible. Note the difference between those words. You cannot enable all effects in Crysis, you can't go beyond low settings in that game. It's the same in EVE, you can't go beyond low settings, ie the old engine. The new engine are the high settings, for newer cards. Your card isn't new. If you still aren't getting this, please kill yourself, as you are a danger to our evolution. 1. i know what the Shadermodels from my gpu means 2. Crysis shows me Bumpmaping/Shadows/better Textures/Higher Polygonmodels or thinking about X3 Reunion that shows me the same good Grafik an thats all on my very very very old stone age low end Powerfull Dx9b Grafikcard 3.never say someone that he has to kill himself just while he has an other meaning like yours this is absolutly respectless then you can see in other parts of the world say the rich amarican-guy(maybe you) to the poor islam guy the same and the islam guy do this with fullness of his proud and then you can see bodyparts and blood in TV but maybe you like this it just TV and not for your house or in your town allright? but maybe are u not Intelligent enough or your brain is simply too small but Apes has small brains too and are Intelligent Animals.... and please dont post your omg-i-am-so-rich-other-meanings-dont-interest-me-you-can-kill-your-self-spam here k?
MOS DEF 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:19:00 - [80] This is an outrage! I want support for my 3dfx voodoo !!
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:23:00 - [81] Originally by: MOS DEF This is an outrage! I want support for my 3dfx voodoo !! lol then make your own thread call it "texture resolution over 64x64 sucks"
Sleepkevert	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:23:00 - [82] Edited by: Sleepkevert on 29/11/2007 12:24:37 First of all, generalization is bad mkay? And so is insulting other races... Forum ban might be appropriate here... Originally by: DMF KingBob Originally by: Reiisha Originally by: DMF KingBob Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08 A64 x2 3800 3gb ram x800xl this is not low end dude ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware They have, and decided that people don't need new hardware to keep playing the game. You can still play the game, albeit at a dx8 level. First, your card is 3 years old now. Trinity has been made to be new, not old. Trinity are the high settings in the game, which require sm3.0. Your card is not compliant with dx9.0c, it is only compatible. Note the difference between those words. You cannot enable all effects in Crysis, you can't go beyond low settings in that game. It's the same in EVE, you can't go beyond low settings, ie the old engine. The new engine are the high settings, for newer cards. Your card isn't new. If you still aren't getting this, please kill yourself, as you are a danger to our evolution. 2. Crysis shows me Bumpmaping/Shadows/better Textures/Higher Polygonmodels or thinking about X3 Reunion that shows me the same good Grafik an thats all on my very very very old stone age low end Powerfull Dx9b Grafikcard Then go back to playing crysis, no-one is forcing you to play EVE? Damn you still don't get this do you? Do you expect to be able to run EVE on HIGH settings or not? You won't be able to run it on HIGH with that card, just like you CAN'T run Crysis on HIGH with that card... Originally by: DMF KingBob and please dont post your omg-i-am-so-rich-other-meanings-dont-interest-me-you-can-kill-your-self-spam here k? He never said he had a graphics card that can run it? For all you know, he has the same graphics card you have, BUT atleast he understands that the new EVE engine is made for SM3, not 2.... Also, while you'r at it, learn how to spell "graphics card".... _______ Sign my sig!
DMF KingBob	Posted - 2007.11.29 12:45:00 - [83] back 2 topic please this means dont post if u have no problem with only SM3.0 too
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:10:00 - [84] Originally by: DMF KingBob this means dont post if u have no problem with only SM3.0 too 1. A petition only thread, without allowing debate is against forum rules 2. A petition where you ask those who are in disagreement with you to NOT post or contribute is also a no no and removes any credibility that your thread had. 3. SM2 will be in Trinity but you don't seem to want to understand that fact SM2 ONLY in Trinity /NOT signed SM3 ONLY in Trinity /NOT signed SM2 and SM3 in Trinity , no need to petition as that is how it will be
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:12:00 - [85] Edited by: Bimjo on 29/11/2007 13:12:46 And SM2 with new shiny graphics will NOT happen as they needed the extra instructions and features SM 3.0 gave CCP programmers check it out for yourself here
Tareen Kashaar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.11.29 13:33:00 - [86] Originally by: petergriffen Originally by: Tareen Kashaar Originally by: CCP Explorer There is a really good reason for requiring SM 3 for the new Premium Graphics Content in EVE Online: Trinity. We use very complicated shaders in the new art content with much more instructions than SM 2 supports. Tongue-in-cheek , but... There's this thing called optimization, ever heard of it? Yes, optimization to SM2 is called SM3. They upgraded, you should too! Sorry, but you missed the mark here. For one, my machine is sm3 capable. The entire point of my post was: SM3 allows the use of more instructions per shader than SM2. Does the achieved visual quality reflect this, or could the same look not be achieved within SM2's limits through the use of optimized code? Look at the PS2 - some of the constraints developers had to work with on that machine were outrageous, yet the visual quality achieved by some games was simply stunning. Either way, as I originally said, it was a tounge-in-cheek remark, nothing that I'm too concerned about. After all, setting the lower limit at DX9 SM3 creates a lot of space for future improvements. --- WTS: Forum Signatures, price negotiable. Evemail me!
nomis ekoobmah Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:18:00 - [87] Originally by: Arana Tellen The shaders are too long for SM2 so unless you want them to waste a couple of years of coding time on an obsolete set of graphics cards that in a year or two will hardly be around, well........ ... but they are not too long for DX9.0b compliant cards such as the Radeon X700, X800 and X850 which all support long shaders. True there are other limitations but the shaders should work OK.
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:34:00 - [88] Quote: It does not in any way make sense for ccp to make a new engine if they base it on outdated technology. The old engine will still be supported so what is the problem? To rehash, the new ENGINE is supported just fine on any DX9 (probably even DX8) card. It's the textures and models that are SM3 (DX9c) only, not the engine. The "Classic" content is still the new engine, it's just the original graphics running on aforementioned engine. What I'd like to see is a little bit of love for those of us who continue to pay our subs, but can't justify upgrading just quite yet. I don't think anyone running an older card would ever expect to get mind boggling graphics, but you seem to fail to comprehend that those of us with cards that are not SM3 compliant receive nothing from this update - save a degradation in client performance. Please correct me if I'm truly barking up a gum tree here, but it wouldn't take hundreds of man hours to get those of us stuck with lower end hardware some new textures to fill the gap between the incredibly dated looking "classic" content, and the new "premium" content that is at present out of our reach.
Esmenet Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.29 14:49:00 - [89] Originally by: Cedric Diggory Please correct me if I'm truly barking up a gum tree here You are. If you are that desperate for the new graphics, go to your local computershop and get a sm3 card from the bargain bin. If you can afford to pay for your sub, you can afford to buy a graphics card that can run trinity. Quote: What I'd like to see is a little bit of love for those of us who continue to pay our subs, but can't justify upgrading just quite yet. You mean like the new ships etc coming in the new free expansion? Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Kreul Intentions ([email protected])
Falkrich Swifthand Caldari eNinjas Incorporated	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:31:00 - [90] Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 29/11/2007 15:32:58 Originally by: nomis ekoobmah Originally by: Arana Tellen The shaders are too long for SM2 so unless you want them to waste a couple of years of coding time on an obsolete set of graphics cards that in a year or two will hardly be around, well........ ... but they are not too long for DX9.0b compliant cards such as the Radeon X700, X800 and X850 which all support long shaders. True there are other limitations but the shaders should work OK. There are OTHER differences between SM3 and SM2. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Level_Shader_Language e.g. While the total shader length is the same between SM2b and SM3 (512 instructions), an SM2b card will only execute up to 512 instructions and an SM3 card will execute up to 65536, screwing up long loops: Instruction slots: SM2: 32+64 SM2a/SM2b: 512 SM3: ≥512 Executed instructions: SM2: 32+64 SM2a/SM2b:512 SM3:65536 It's also worth noting that according to the most recent valve gamer hardware survey, 64% (and rising) of gamers have a SM3 card, and only 18% (and dropping) have a SM2 card. Roughly half of those 18% are Radeon 9000 series cards that are only pure SM2, and roughly another half are Radeon X000 series with SM2b. While converting SM3 shaders to SM2b is easier than SM2, is it really worth it for ~10% of players? Especially when they can still play the game, and could see the new graphics by getting a $50 graphics card upgrade? I imagine it would cost CCP more than that to do. nullnull
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:38:00 - [91] Edited by: Cedric Diggory on 29/11/2007 15:39:02 Originally by: Esmenet You are. If you are that desperate for the new graphics, go to your local computershop and get a sm3 card from the bargain bin. If you can afford to pay for your sub, you can afford to buy a graphics card that can run trinity. And experience framerates of 10-15 in combat? There are very few AGP setups that will cope with this, it's really pushing the bar up considerably and hence merit a full system upgrade. Don't get me wrong, this is still a necessity - it'd just be nice if there was something to bridge the gap between the classic and premium content Quote: You mean like the new ships etc coming in the new free expansion? That's a little love for us all! Quote: It's also worth noting that according to the most recent valve gamer hardware survey, 64% (and rising) of gamers have a SM3 card, and only 18% (and dropping) have a SM2 card. Roughly half of those 18% are Radeon 9000 series cards that are only pure SM2, and roughly another half are Radeon X000 series with SM2b. Which brings us nicely back to my point: why no survey of Eve users?
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:40:00 - [92] As has been pointed out if you want th nice new content get a newer card, personally i'm waiting on the DX10 SM4 client to play with thats going to be very nice ^^ --------- Liberty Rogues Website
Haldir Ravenclaw Ordo Occultus Deus Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.29 16:24:00 - [93] I love the fact most peoples reply in this is along the lines of "if you don't have a SM3 GPU, stfu and go buy one you cheap noob". Not exactly a well thought out answer, I must say. I for one run an old "dinosaur" of a computer by today's standards (ATi X800, 1GB RAM, P4 3.2GHz, nearing 4 years old, not even PCI-E!) and won't be able to run the shiny stuff when Trinity touches down. Sure, I find it slightly annoying that the best I can do is look at pictures for the time being, but I'm not going to simply purchase a SM3 GPU for this computer only for it to run at extremely bad FPS. But for now, even on the test server, I like the increased speed of the original graphics with the updated engine so I'm quite happy with that for now. In the new year I'll be upgrading to a completely new PC anyway, but I won't be complaining at the fact I want more stuff because it'll be Windows Vista and a DirectX 10 graphics card with SM4 on it (or whatever a 8800GT has). Be grateful we still get to play with the new content, even though it doesn't look as shiny, as this graphics upgrade doesn't affect your gameplay (other than the improved engine and fps etc, as already stated somewhere in a dev blog) and you can still go about your business as normal. Until the day I upgrade, I'll still be playing EVE as it is now, with the new content but without shiny stuff. Bring it on I say... EVE will still be around if, and when, people decide to upgrade their computers. All these low-end SM3 cards are dirt cheap now (even for AGP), and will be even cheaper later on if your not after a super-duper high-end computer. Hell, if you want to be even cheaper, check eBay! But good job to CCP for the graphics improvement, looks awesome! I'll be able to play with it as soon as I get my new PC!
Bonny Lou	Posted - 2007.11.29 17:13:00 - [94] So CCP should support DX8, DX9 SM2, DX9 SM3 and later DX10??? ok dude...
petergriffen Amarr Dufrene Holdings. INC	Posted - 2007.11.29 19:27:00 - [95] Edited by: petergriffen on 29/11/2007 19:27:39 Comments that the new engine will run "slower" on SM2 cards are unfounded. The new engine is based in DirectX 9... One of the HUGE ADVANTAGES to DX9 is that it offloads most of the graphics work from the CPU to the GPU, leaving your CPU available to handle whatever is left over. If you're running a DirectX 9 capable card, whether it's Shader Model 1, 2, 12 or -50, you WILL see a performance increase. It's when all the shiny new shaders, textures, lighting, shadows etc. are added in that the slowdown will occur. Despite what people seem to think, you ARE getting an engine upgrade, one that will, in all likeliness, perform a hell of a lot better than the old DX7/8 engine.
Cardice Makar Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:13:00 - [96] I would just like to point out that, in most games, 'trinity' would be a new game. You would get the honour of going out and buying a replacement game. Your old game and progress would be marked as obsolete. You would need to upgrade your machine to play it. And, at that point you've both bought a new game and a new graphics card anyway. The only difference is, now, that instead of being a whole new game, you can keep playing and infact switch back and forth between the two at will. I personally see this as a reasonable choice. CCP chose the shader path they wished to use. A great deal of people are dwelling on capabilities of the current engine, but aren't taking into account that they plan on releasing new effect packages and overhauling other systems. Perhaps this is why they chose SM3 support? Trinity1 stood up to nearly 7 years of abuse, [beta testing included], and still looks good. Trinity2 is supposed to stand up to a further 7 years. How many MMO's have survived 5-7 years and are expecting to have the SAME MMO survive another 7? Keeping your options open is a very wise move, I'm just sorry that you're unable to play with the new graphics settings. Perhaps in the coming months you will find the ability to make use of the new graphics content. The future is bright, just keep that in mind. We can all still play the same game
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:26:00 - [97] Points and laughs at the PS2 people Oh hi, some of us are running PS4 now... time to think about upgrading maby?
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.29 20:28:00 - [98] I have one thing to ask for: change paladin skin on old GFX. As i cant run new one (10 ships on screen = FPS drop to negative numbers) id like at least yto have decent (read: not pink) ships in amarr line... As for old gfx: at least i will have GOOD looking absolution.
Freyya Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:07:00 - [99] Edited by: Freyya on 29/11/2007 21:07:47 Originally by: Deva Blackfire (10 ships on screen = FPS drop to negative numbers) Cool!! so you can actually go back in frames and change a decision if it turns out to be a bad one? me wants Anyways for all ya'll; Go get a Ati HD3850 or HD3870 or nVidia GT8800...they're rather cheap for their good performance, SM4/dx10 compliant aswell + PCI-e 2.0... so actually pretty futureproof atm.. ___________ NOW COLLECTING ISD AND CCP AUTOGRAPHS It'll be worth something someday. -Rauth Tnhx Rauth, apparantly the rest feel to good for it already..free beer anyone?
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:32:00 - [100] Originally by: Freyya Edited by: Freyya on 29/11/2007 21:07:47 Originally by: Deva Blackfire (10 ships on screen = FPS drop to negative numbers) Cool!! so you can actually go back in frames and change a decision if it turns out to be a bad one? me wants Yep - there is a swithc in GFX options for old/new content. Only minus of having new content but using old is that 1gig tumor your EVE copy will carry ;p
Zekarus Caldari MAIDS Antesignani Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.29 21:43:00 - [101] Originally by: Mikelio Raijan Points and laughs at the PS2 people Oh hi, some of us are running PS4 now... time to think about upgrading maby? University student. Athlon XP 2800+, 1GB RAM, GF 7600GT AGP. So ** you. Not all of us have enough income to be able to afford a new computer, many of my friends can barely pay the rent. As for many people, surely if you have an old rig (like I do), you must be used to this kind of rejection by now? Every time someone talks about how they can run** CoD4 or Crysis, I die a bit inside. -------- You don't like me, and I don't like you. The difference is, I don't care as long as I have the maids.
Bimjo Caldari SKULLDOGS	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:05:00 - [102] Originally by: Zekarus Originally by: Mikelio Raijan Points and laughs at the PS2 people Oh hi, some of us are running PS4 now... time to think about upgrading maby? University student. Athlon XP 2800+, 1GB RAM, GF 7600GT AGP. So ** you. Not all of us have enough income to be able to afford a new computer, many of my friends can barely pay the rent. As for many people, surely if you have an old rig (like I do), you must be used to this kind of rejection by now? Every time someone talks about how they can run** CoD4 or Crysis, I die a bit inside. study, as you are , and soon you'll be able to buy a top notch PC chin up (no I won't tell you what I have in my rig as you will commit hara kiri)
Mikelio Raijan Sulithus	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:44:00 - [103] Originally by: Zekarus Originally by: Mikelio Raijan Points and laughs at the PS2 people Oh hi, some of us are running PS4 now... time to think about upgrading maby? University student. Athlon XP 2800+, 1GB RAM, GF 7600GT AGP. So ** you. Not all of us have enough income to be able to afford a new computer, many of my friends can barely pay the rent. As for many people, surely if you have an old rig (like I do), you must be used to this kind of rejection by now? Every time someone talks about how they can run CoD4 or Crysis, I die a bit inside. You have a SM3 card. So ** you too. It's the tarts that want to halt graphics progress altogether because they don't want to/can't upgrade... but somehow want better graphics (with no performance loss?) that are annoying me.
Draeca federation navy taskforce	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:54:00 - [104] Originally by: Bimjo study, as you are , and soon you'll be able to buy a top notch PC chin up (no I won't tell you what I have in my rig as you will commit hara kiri) Yeah, maybe I can buy a new top of the line PC too when I finish my studies and find a well paid job. The problem is that I still have 3 and a half years left, and I'm allready running almost 3 year old laptop with mob. radeon x600 (which actually runs crysis, I was quite surprised). I also happen to have a lovely hobby called music, which is all about getting new shiny and expensive instruments. And I can barely pay my rent right now so I'm really tight on cash for the next few years. This sucks, but whatever.. I just have to live with it.. I don't know how hard it might be to implement, but would be awesome if the people with "lesser" rigs could run the old graphics engine with new models and toned down textures without all the fancy shaders and stuff.

CCP Gangleri	Posted - 2007.11.29 22:55:00 - [105] There are two clients, if you can not run the new content then you have the option of running the classic client with the new and upgraded engine. If you want better graphics you need to buy better hardware. Locking this thread.


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