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The 'Great War' - The perspectives of an 'Outsider'

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:27:00 - [31] Edited by: Cippalippus Primus on 30/11/2007 17:27:11 From an outsider's point of view this is pretty accurate, and even if very long, an extremely interesting read.
Ramlir 0.0 Corp	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:34:00 - [32] Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre I read "Career in PR" and "portrayal as balanced as possible" and couldn't help but laugh. Thanks for the post! Agreed lol
Maxima Maxi Pink Bunnies C0VEN	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:36:00 - [33] [/URL]
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:36:00 - [34] Nice read, but you got a major timeline error: D2 entered the fray only days after Bob declared it's assault on RSF. You make it sound like it was much later... ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Scarcus Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:37:00 - [35] Thanks for the historical write-up, Hardin. It is much appreciated. Once NOL has been purged with cleansing fire, and all the vassals are put to the sword, I'm sure we'll have a lovely little cold war, your bloc and ours. Originally by: KIATolon Chowdown, if you use your t
Helen coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:42:00 - [36] A few errors need pointing out. ASCN didn't vow to kill off Goons it was mostly AXE alliance that went for the ride with just a few ASCN pvpers deciding to blob up on the Goons. RA has never completely consisted of Russians, I know because I'm not Russian and have been part of RA there is plenty of Americans/Europeans in RA. Otherwise a very nice broad overview of 0.0 history. First pod pilot to lose a Mothership in EvE... err woo
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:42:00 - [37] nice looks like you did about as much 'work' at work today as me :D ----------
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:43:00 - [38] Originally by: Ramlir Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre I read "Career in PR" and "portrayal as balanced as possible" and couldn't help but laugh. Thanks for the post! Agreed lol There is a common misperception that PR is all about spin and lies when it is a tried and tested truth that the best PR is often generated by being as honest and straightforward as possible. Of course no one will ever believe a PR person who says that but heh what can you do ------------------------------
Cassiuss Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Helen A few errors need pointing out. ASCN didn't vow to kill off Goons...rabble... It was to ASCN!!! I know I was there!!! It was Gilbert and Cyvok!! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Silvestri Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:01:00 - [40] Edited by: Silvestri on 30/11/2007 18:01:37 Wow...very nice read Hardin. It even made me reactivate my acct. I pray as I get back into the swing of things they fixed lag...or will in Trinity. The Fix post almost brought me out of retirement as I also have huge respect to FIX... MC actually had 2 major assaults on IAC. As tensions grew between IAC and ISS we really didn't know who hired MC on us for prohibtion 2....But we suspected ISS. They put up a bunch of POS's...We noticed bigger patrols as well when we were invading whoever used to live in Immensea. -V- rings a bell but not sure. But after the second invasion IAC members were really just out for ISS blood. But our president's (we cycled a few) and executive's held the reigns on us. But after peer pressure most of us convinced the exec's to let go of the reigns and we went all out on ISS. So...was it truly ISS that hired MC the second time? So many rumors went around. Come on Seleene...it's all water under the bridge now.... Edit...after posting I realize I got the boot from IAC. Goes to show the kick inactive members...lol

fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:05:00 - [41] Nice read http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Salastil Rens 911	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:05:00 - [42] When did BoB ever contest Detorid? It's not possible to contest Detorid without passing through Immensea, which also was never contested. Also Red Alliance controlled Detorid, Immensea, Wicked Creek, Scalding Pass, Insmother, and Cache after booting the Five out which caused Lotka Volterra to be formed. LV wasn't formed when Curse Alliance broke up.
Exaali Vendraxxil REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:38:00 - [43] Edited by: Exaali Vendraxxil on 30/11/2007 18:39:22 Originally by: Helen RA has never completely consisted of Russians, I know because I'm not Russian and have been part of RA there is plenty of Americans/Europeans in RA. Very true. Also, TCF aren't new friends of RA - many of the corps that make it up used to be in RA proper but broke off to form their own separate alliance. Also, ATUK/5 had renter alliances in their space long before BoB existed as in IGA.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:40:00 - [44] The topic is interesting but it's a wall of text. I'll read that. Wall of text... :( 2isk
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:43:00 - [45] I can say that the OP is mostly correct. I was planted into Veritas Immortalis by MACTEP to spy on Light Darkness. When Veritas Immortalis fell I was retired by MACTEP and went off doing my own thing, mostly pirating in low-sec. Pirating in low-sec became a bit boring, so now I run top-secret courier missions for MACTEP and other high-ranking Red Alliance captains, occasionally I have been known to move the odd package for GoonSwarm aswell. Funny how things work out. -- ADVL CEO. LootTrack Sales KB
Jehle Minmatar Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:47:00 - [46] Damn you Hardin! Damn you to hell!! You make territorial warfare sound so fun and exciting. Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Was a great read, and well written. Many thanks Jehle
Gnarrkilly Damned Legion Mournival Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:49:00 - [47] A good read, I enjoyed it. I'm sure theres a few people on either side with sore pride that would dispute some facts but I didn't read anything that made me scoff. I hope your attempt to seduce more people to come to eve works out well. This would look good in a certain magazine ;) Also plenty mentions of me aswell as a few closeups would be nice ;) Seriously, gj though mate. ------------- Gnarrkilly - Ceo Damned Legion - Recruitment Open "Reasonably priced brutality"
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Hardin The 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude changed when it was discovered that a number of Goon members had been making fun of the real life death of another EVE player. This incident was widely condemned by the majority of the EVE community but it particularly incensed the BoB membership. Coincidentally this incident happened around the time Goons took their first tentative steps in 0.0. On this particular story, and with a better knowledge of the Goon spirit than when it was flamed everywhere, what can I say is : what the **. This story again ? One post decided the fate of this war ? I think it's not true. I am not fighting for one post. If I mock someone like "oh your mama died, cool because you suck" today, I'll be probably expelled from my alliance, and be podkilled in cycles until I quit the game. But my alliance wouldn't start a war vs an alliance for this. Bob fight us for, at first, a view of the game that RSF don't have. We fight for another view. RL issues have nothing to do about it. And if I told somebody died in my corp to any Goon, they'll be the first to flame it. That is their spirit. My alliance is allied with iconoclasts. My alliance point of vue is that they don't care. My personal motivation is fighting with the original guys vs the uncreative-conservative people. I like creativity. Too much is a flaw. But I personally don't care this flaw. The conservative mind, to me, is a greater flaw than the "OMG I'm Alice in Wonderland" flaw because Eve is a game. I want each day to be full of surprises. This "omg this guys died truck" bull** is the only excuse of a war Bob have against Goons. Some people would say too late in the Coalition. I'd say too bad you've though of nothing else. I continue to read the thread now :) 2isk
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:59:00 - [49] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:00:11 Originally by: Hardin As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) (...) You need intel. :) I'd say RA are one of our uncle (who was born before you per say). -edit- Also, the RaGoons defeated LV. RSF was after their fall. 2isk
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:09:00 - [50] I'm not sure I really like these "bloc maps". They're misleading at best -- we have nearly half the entities neutral in our "bloc". Hardin, I also think you forgot to mention CHIMP alliance and their fall to United Legion.

YouShallKnowFear Fourty-Two	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:11:00 - [51] CVA has a vested interest in the success and survival of IAC. You aided them in catch conflicts, and attempted to disrupt a bob cyno chain in Providence. You are not neutral, and you are not an "outsider".
Haargoth Agamar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:15:00 - [52] Originally by: BlackHorizon I'm not sure I really like these "bloc maps". They're misleading at best -- we have nearly half the entities neutral in our "bloc". Hardin, I also think you forgot to mention CHIMP alliance and their fall to United Legion. I think thats a bit irrelevant because by the time CHIMP died most of the better corporations had moved on and they really were a shadow of what they were before. This is a broad overview, not a specific detailed one.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:15:00 - [53] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:00:11 Originally by: Hardin As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) (...) You need intel. :) I'd say RA are one of our uncle (who was born before you per say). -edit- Also, the RaGoons defeated LV. RSF was after their fall. Yeah as I said at start its not perfect and there are errors - for example as someone pointed out I got the Detorid thing wrong - and yes I have overlooked some things completely... Maybe I will go back and revise it with the more constructive criticisms at another stage... As I said before my point was really go give a 'feeling' to the war as it went back and forth not to be 100% accurate as I think that is impossible for any 'outsider' to be fully accurate at least not without spending several weeks/months reviewing old threads and interviewing the participants personally - which is a job I will leave to someone else (as I really don't have that much time ) - despite how it may appear... Finally to the TCF guy ranting on about the whole 'death' thing of course it is not the only reason for the whole war and many other factors are now involved but it was certainly an important part in creating bad blood between Goons and BoB and that does have an influence on how things played out... Of course we could all get in our time machines and speculate on potential outcomes in parallel universe ------------------------------
Haargoth Agamar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:17:00 - [54] Originally by: YouShallKnowFear CVA has a vested interest in the success and survival of IAC. You aided them in catch conflicts, and attempted to disrupt a bob cyno chain in Providence. You are not neutral, and you are not an "outsider". Well maybe they did not appreciate us going around killing them and their friends in Providence and wanted to annoy us back? I don`t really see how CVA has a vested interest in the war, just to help IAC when they need help. But what do I know.
Skool Daze	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:22:00 - [55] This is bull.****. This is the real history: End of BOB started when Sirmolle started "tick tock" topics. Annoying all eve community and not only their enemies. Now do you see that tick tock topics anymore? BOB attacked ASCN because CYVOK thought he become GOD after having the first titan and told something stupid on the forums like "we'll let you keep fountain if you surrender now." BOB killed ASCN with the help of Developers and titan overpower. They couldn't do this today at this new game mechanics. Nevertheless since titans been nerfed BOB is losing space and will lose more and more. GOON will kill BOB because Sirmolle said "there are no goons." not thinking that one day all that low skilled pilots become high skilled. So all this wars are because of forum smacktalk and ego war, it all starts here and ends in game.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:22:00 - [56] The early section regarding BoB uses a lot more subjectivity than many of the other sections with comments like "of course they..." and stuff like that. You could easily prune the more blatant examples and have a truer piece through there. Goon's initial defeat wasn't actually at the hands of BoB at all. They fought a hard struggle against D2 and eventually lost. Only after this did BoB show up, declare death to all goons, shoot their remnants a bit and declare that they had conquered the evil goons. Lots of loud posturing, very little actual work. I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres.
Kortalis Hellion Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:34:00 - [57] Amazing read, thanks
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. I'd fully agree with that comment, but also point out that it was coupled with a change in perception of Goons. They went from being a carefree, innovative alliance that posted some hilarious stuff (remember the 'little bee' animation to request larger alliances?) to storming the forums with Threadnoughts, RL abuse and borderline illegal spam. Whereas most felt goodwill to them in the 'old days' (myself included, belive it or not) they've squandered that goodwill and turned it to disgust.
Gnome Chomsky 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Hardin The 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude changed when it was discovered that a number of Goon members had been making fun of the real life death of another EVE player. This incident was widely condemned by the majority of the EVE community but it particularly incensed the BoB membership. Coincidentally this incident happened around the time Goons took their first tentative steps in 0.0. On this particular story, and with a better knowledge of the Goon spirit than when it was flamed everywhere, what can I say is : what the **. This story again ? One post decided the fate of this war ? I think it's not true. I am not fighting for one post. If I mock someone like "oh your mama died, cool because you suck" today, I'll be probably expelled from my alliance, and be podkilled in cycles until I quit the game. But my alliance wouldn't start a war vs an alliance for this. Bob fight us for, at first, a view of the game that RSF don't have. We fight for another view. RL issues have nothing to do about it. And if I told somebody died in my corp to any Goon, they'll be the first to flame it. That is their spirit. My alliance is allied with iconoclasts. My alliance point of vue is that they don't care. My personal motivation is fighting with the original guys vs the uncreative-conservative people. I like creativity. Too much is a flaw. But I personally don't care this flaw. The conservative mind, to me, is a greater flaw than the "OMG I'm Alice in Wonderland" flaw because Eve is a game. I want each day to be full of surprises. This "omg this guys died truck" bull** is the only excuse of a war Bob have against Goons. Some people would say too late in the Coalition. I'd say too bad you've though of nothing else. I continue to read the thread now :) Both you and I know how to behave, even on this anonymous internet. For those that do not, you should not overlook moral flaws so easily. </serious_post>
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:35:00 - [60] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:35:22 Originally by: Hardin Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:00:11 Originally by: Hardin As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) (...) You need intel. :) I'd say RA are one of our uncle (who was born before you per say). -edit- Also, the RaGoons defeated LV. RSF was after their fall. Yeah as I said at start its not perfect and there are errors - for example as someone pointed out I got the Detorid thing wrong - and yes I have overlooked some things completely... Maybe I will go back and revise it with the more constructive criticisms at another stage... As I said before my point was really go give a 'feeling' to the war as it went back and forth not to be 100% accurate as I think that is impossible for any 'outsider' to be fully accurate at least not without spending several weeks/months reviewing old threads and interviewing the participants personally - which is a job I will leave to someone else (as I really don't have that much time ) - despite how it may appear... Finally to the TCF guy ranting on about the whole 'death' thing of course it is not the only reason for the whole war and many other factors are now involved but it was certainly an important part in creating bad blood between Goons and BoB and that does have an influence on how things played out... Of course we could all get in our time machines and speculate on potential outcomes in parallel universe I edited my post to be more precise. I'm also just slightly drunk :) Anyway. Bob dislike goons about this. Goons disliked Bob about the arrogancy they showed to any lossing alliance after they won. It's like being bullied and bullied and bullied. They though they had something more to say than "yes Band of Brothers, you're right we shall not doing something in 0.0 without asking first". They were victims after the Goon/Bob war. And they were spitted on. They had numbers for them. and now they have the experience of lossing in the game. It is strange because "Bob loose" is two words completly new to anyone who played the game more than 1 year and a half. This sould like "the **** smells good" or any oxymoron you could learn, something like "Goons win". -...edited here 5 lines that would be flamed so much :)...- Guess what : RA, Goons, TCF all experienced the failure. And we all don't like people who win all the time. Bob, loosers are your doom. People that were spitted upon when they lost the ability. People they wish they could. People that can now. And I hope for your gaming experience that we'll not haunt you. We never lost the faith. 2isk



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