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The 'Great War' - The perspectives of an 'Outsider'

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The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:55:00 - [211] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: The Mittani good question lagadu is a very important member of finfleet and a proud bob member yet he's made some threads in market orders that by all rights should have spot hiring mercenaries on him in real life this is why it is so fun to troll bob about their faux moral outrage, because the hypocrisy is comedy its almost like when they complain about 'their alliance being painted in broad brushstrokes due to the actions of one person' that one is almost as good as the lagadu one Id like to add a comment in regards to this line of discussion (though I freely admit from this point that it serves no purpose, and that I enjoy such fruitless endevors) (Also this post is from a bob grunt at the time) I was part of Sgt Spots. corp during the beginning of the Goon vs Bob conflict in syndicate. The funny thing is that before any of that happened I can remember much discussion on how goons would affect the game. For all most of bob cared (again from a grunt perspective) it seemed like you guys would have been a strong allaince to ally with and would one day (pending more sp) become a great allaince. Then the "joke" happened. While I dont pretend to know anything about leadership, or their plans for your allaince, from a grunt perspective ALOT of us were **ed off about the incident. Had not Bob declared War on you, a crap load of the pvpers would have just done the same thing none officially. The hate and anger was very much real on the Bob and internal forums... that much is clear since you would have db dumps of those forums from that time. The "moral highground" as you so like to put it was very real to pretty much all bob members (that I had contact with of course) at that time. As for the present, I am sure many Bob still hang on to that hate and anger from that incident, even despite the fact that they know you only do things just to make them angry. I know I still remember incidents from when I was a little kid that ed me off that I would love to get revenge for. I dont see how that makes anyone deranged as everyone thats honest with themselves would be willing to admit that they harbor some of those old feelings as well. In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) I dont think you could say the same thing about Bob of then, nor could you say it of now. The only people you could accuse of that would be Bob leadership, and some of the vets that frequent these forums. Your allaince has some weird hive mind thing going on... Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen. its pretty awesome to know that you really ** off people you can't stand, thanks for this imma lean back here and imagine all the angry bobbits aahhhh thats a good feeling sips mojito
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:14:00 - [212] Originally by: Riley Craven In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) what
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:36:00 - [213] It doesn't matter what happens in the end, we have infected all of EVE, just look around the forums, we've already won. Now we just have to continue our campaign of brutal revenge. Hurray for revenge!
General Tsao GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:49:00 - [214] Originally by: Riley Craven I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them Thanks for this.
Marodex Gallente Illuminati Revitalization Society Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:00:00 - [215] Certainly a great read. To be honest I wouldn't have minded if it were 20 posts long. The length of it, if you could keep it this exciting over the whole lot of it, doesn't really matter as it shows how much politics and intrigues in Eve Online are.
Viktor Konstantine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:30:00 - [216] "Stupid goonie children, grow up!!1" loses another region
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:37:00 - [217] Originally by: Riley Craven As for the present, I am sure many Bob still hang on to that hate and anger from that incident, even despite the fact that they know you only do things just to make them angry. They need to get over it. Having goons urinate in your cheerios first thing in the morning and taking a dump on your hamburger bun at lunch ain't a great way to live. This is why I don't eat cheerios I do the bran or eggs thing in the mornin and go with a nice chef salad for lunch. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Koala Bare eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:39:00 - [218] Originally by: Lord WarATron trauma The indoctrination is strong in you, my young, err, wannabee director.
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:41:00 - [219] Originally by: Riley Craven Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen. Riley, with all due respect, (of which I had some) you have already lost to the goons. You are actually saying you left 0.0 to live in empire, because of their posting? Puhleese. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:43:00 - [220] Originally by: The Mittani its pretty awesome to know that you really **** off people you can't stand, thanks for this imma lean back here and imagine all the angry bobbits aahhhh thats a good feeling sips mojito Do you feel me patting you on the head? Martinis > Mojitos Too much sugar. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Koala Bare eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:47:00 - [221] Originally by: Shevar I have no love for how BoB conducted politics in Eve, but quite frankly goons just annoy me to such a level on these forums that I wouldn't mind them being banned from the forums. Sure BoB was arrogant in the past, but I prefer arrogant over ****** and downright rude (ie. posting gore pron and actually having the mayority of your alliance like that you did that). Quite frankly the phrase never argue with a ** on the internet, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience is quite a decent description of Goonswarm forum behaviour. But if you call that metagaming then I guess you are part of the **s. Dig deep enough. Nothing's changed, only the tag of the metagaming. BOB invented it, failed to perfect it. They tried to take over a game, and got stumped by their own methods. I don't like the ** that goes on here as much as the next guy. But I just can't see the difference, not even on a scale, of what BOB came up with, and now has backfiring. Goons, Bob, CA Part Deux, SA, everyone's done it, everybody will do it again, and the scale of the Goon focus is no bigger then the scale of the Bob focus at its time. As for Hardin, there is no outsider perspective. There is only the perspective of the last man or team standing. They write history, prerogative of the victors. It's something BOB attempted, but failed at, but in contrast to what many think, not because of bumping into their own limitations or someone else, but sheer simple entropy. The longer the war goes on, the deeper the trenches, but as Barbara Tuchmann already demonstrated it's not a war of attrition in such a case, nor of economy, simply one of control of the minds of the masses.
Apophis Omega Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:07:00 - [222] Originally by: The Mittani the most cogent turning point in the war is something which you missed: when people look back on things to find the 'tipping point' after which things really went to hell for bob, it will be a self-inflicted wound: asking mpire to pay rent You mean to say bob asking M. Pire to pay rent was the final nail in the coffin? Funny I said that and bobs said I was wrong. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:18:00 - [223] Originally by: Apophis Omega Originally by: The Mittani the most cogent turning point in the war is something which you missed: when people look back on things to find the 'tipping point' after which things really went to hell for bob, it will be a self-inflicted wound: asking mpire to pay rent You mean to say bob asking M. Pire to pay rent was the final nail in the coffin? Funny I said that and bobs said I was wrong. they also say pendulums work in space so iuno
Pwnomus Maximus Caldari Rakasha Legion	Posted - 2007.12.04 05:57:00 - [224] Originally by: The Mittani when people look back on things to find the 'tipping point' after which things really went to hell for bob, it will be a self-inflicted wound: asking mpire to pay rent From a general perspective i think this is correct, but not entirely accurate. First rent demanding contact was made by Tholarim (DICE) to Tomcatt (STK-S). THAT tipped the scale. Had the demand been made of another M. Pire corp, negotiation would most likely have taken place, with the result being M.Pire remaining by BoB's side. STK have a very bad history with BoB and that out right disrespect from someone they'd risked losing a lot members to come help just lit the fuse. From then on standing with the GBC was never an option to STK, and that was made quite clear to the rest of M. Pire. I know Tomcatt from his days in low sec and then ASCN. BoB could not have made a more stupid demand to more wrong a person than Tom. I don't think the reaction would have been that strong even if fiery Helen had still been CEO of STK. From talks i've had with parties involved, STK led the way for M. Pire out of the GBC. This take charge no BS attitude unfortunately stepped on too many M. Corp leadership toes leading to a lack of communication between the two and the collapse of M. Pire. BoB demands rent from M. Pire via STK, STK flips the double bird and drags M. Pire out with them, the GBC starts to crumble. BoB is a very very long way from dead, let's make that very clear, but they've lost territory, they've lost pets (props to the pets!) and deserve to lose everything. BoB has no friends, only slaves, eventually you will all realize this, and the sooner you do, the better you will end up. Moved by will alone.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:46:00 - [225] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Riley Craven Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen. Riley, with all due respect, (of which I had some) you have already lost to the goons. You are actually saying you left 0.0 to live in empire, because of their posting? Puhleese. Well, to be honest this isnt the whole truth. I left for empire with the hope of a bright future with another corp that ended with me getting off the failure train. I left because I got tired of being "middle management". What I said is correct though, because of that failure I have been living in empire doing my own thing solo, though that is about to change shortly. This of course had the nice side of affect of not having to really deal with goons anymore. So while my present situation is correct, I seem to implied the reason for it was reason different than what they actually are. To be honest I'd be surprised if anyone in Bob had any respect for me besides a select few that I knew well. In any case those days are behind me.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:54:00 - [226] Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: Riley Craven In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) what To clarify, of what I have seen of the man (poster) he seems to actually think about things (most of the posts I have seen from him have been in the Game Dev forum) The primary difference being that he's not saying something is broken just because it **es him off and makes him loose battle, but because he actually offers sounds reasoning as to why it **es him off. Granted those posts are only a small subsection of his character I am sure, but from what I have seen he is one of the feew (that I could prob count on my hand) of the goons that I actually dont mind seeing on the forums. His choice of friends... well thats another matter entirely.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:59:00 - [227] Originally by: The Mittani its pretty awesome to know that you really **** off people you can't stand, thanks for this imma lean back here and imagine all the angry bobbits aahhhh thats a good feeling sips mojito You say that like you actually needed someone to validate that. I am sure you are quite capable of doing that on your own. Its not as if Bob has tried to hide the fact that they hate you, nor is it like you dont have db dumps of their forums... That being said... cheers
Mei Feh	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:41:00 - [228] Nice retrospective. It would be an interesting project for some history student to actually interview as many of the players are still in game on these events and prepare a treatment of events. The peer review would be brutal... .MF Midshipman Mei Feh - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards What do you want to fly today?

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