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The 'Great War' - The perspectives of an 'Outsider'

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Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:27:00 - [1] Foreword I have written this account primarily to interest people who do not play EVE in the rich politics and history of the game. I also want to make it clear that I am to some extent an 'Outsider'. I am not a regular correspondent with Mittani, nor is SirMolle someone with whom I have talked to more than a couple of times in my four years in EVE. I do not have (nor have ever had) an alt in Goons/RA/AAA or any other Coalition alliance and similarly I do not have any alts in BoB, MC, FIX or any other 'Alliance' corporation. Therefore there will undoubtedly be mistakes in this account and timelines may not be exactly perfect. Of course if anyone wishes they could stick this on a Wiki then everyone can tear it apart... As an 'Outsider' on the 'Great War' with a real life interest in politics and a career in PR I am going to try and make this portrayal as balanced as possible based upon the 'information' which I, as an avid reader or CAOD/SHC, have gleaned over the years. As such there will be mistakes and it will no doubt ** off pedants on both sides of the conflict (which really isn't my intent). All I can say to any critics is that I have written it from my own perspective based upon my own perceptions (and memories) and if they are wrong well then clearly someone has done a better job persuading me how to think than someone else. I honestly have no axe to grind for or against either side - My heart lies with Amarr :-) Finally as this 'history' covers a large period of time I have in the interests of brevity kept it focused on the main players and incidents, so if you feel that you have been unfairly excluded or that your role has not been given the credit it deserves then please feel free to write your own 'history'. Similarly I have to say that my EVE experience has almost completely been confined to Empire and the South so I probably have not given the 'Northern' elements of the war enough focus. In the beginning...** When EVE first started 0.0 was a wild and exciting place. Out if the initial chaos a number of strong unified alliances emerged which dominated large chunks of EVE real estate. Alliances such as Curse, Stain, Venal and Fountain will go down in EVE folklore. The wars amongst these alliances were monumental in scale but all were to be eventually eclipsed by the war which would become known as the 'Great War'. As time passed these big alliances started to splinter as competition for territory heated up. As CCP introduced new tools for the development of 0.0 insfrastructure (such as POSes and Outposts) it became clear that logistics would play an increasingly large part in the development of successful 0.0 alliances and the days of claiming large swathes of territory with limited numbers of players were coming to an end. ------------------------------
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:29:00 - [2] The roots of the conflict... Out of the gradual breakup of the original large alliances a number of new alliances emerged and foremost amongst these was Band of Brothers (BoB). BoB was made up of some of the best PvPers, tacticians and industrialists in the Universe and were seen by many as unstoppable. As BoB grew in power success bred success as it is a natural human instinct to gravitate towards perceived 'winners'. Despite this BoB was still limited in one respect - numbers. There is only so much space any alliance can take and hold successfully and that is limited by the amount of people they can field. There really is no point in holding space if you cannot police and utilise that space effectively. BoB cleverly and successfully got around this hurdle with the introduction of 'renters' or as some may term them 'pet' alliances. As BoB captured 0.0 real estate they 'rented' their newly captured territory out to other friendly alliances. These 'pets' were able to exploit the natural resources of these regions and in return had a guarantee that BoB would protect them in the event of a major attack. This system was extremely beneficial for BoB as it meant others would manage the day to day policing of their territory whilst simultaneously providing funds to finance further conquests. It was virtuous cycle which allowed BoB to grow in territory, strength and power. In addition, BoB were very cleverly recruiting and integrating many of the more capable enemies they had conquered into their own ranks, once again increasing the power of the alliance. Of course while success breeds success it also breeds resentment and jealousy. Those disposssessd in BoB conflicts (and not invited to join the party) grew increasingly bitter about BoB's success and spread resentment wherever they went. Alliances - even those friendly to BoB - were always looking over their shoulders, worried that they would be the next victims. BoB themselves added to the fear. As is natural their pilots and public statements took upon an arrogant tone. Statements that they intended to conquer the entire galaxy surely did not help their public image. Nevertheless there was a widespread belief that the alliance was untouchable - an image that BoB themselves fostered - and this certainly dissuaded many from even trying. Around two and a half years ago a new alliance was formed - Goonswarm. Goonswarm was an alliance created by members of the 'Something Awful' forums who joined EVE in massive numbers. While Goons had a large playerbase they lacked in skills, money and experience. They were also highly disrespectful of the 'established order' in EVE - something that did not endear them to the rest of the galaxy. Many viewed them as nothing more than a humourous diversion that would never amount to anything substantial. The 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude changed when it was discovered that a number of Goon members had been making fun of the real life death of another EVE player. This incident was widely condemned by the majority of the EVE community but it particularly incensed the BoB membership. Coincidentally this incident happened around the time Goons took their first tentative steps in 0.0. BoB in conjunction with a number of alliances including ASCN (at that time EVE's largest alliance) vowed to remove Goons from 0.0. The assault was a huge success. Goons pilots died in massive numbers and they were effectively destroyed as space holding alliance. The BoB leadership declared themselves pleased with the outcome of the campaign and insisted that Goons would never be allowed to set foot in 0.0 again. ------------------------------
Astasia Orian Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:30:00 - [3] I'm calling HR if you don't do some work soon
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:32:00 - [4] Meanwhile in another part of the galaxy... As mentioned above ASCN were at this stage the most sizeable alliance in EVE. The ASCN alliance had been formed in the aftermath of a previous war and many of its members had joined EVE from the game Earth & Beyond when it had collapsed. While its PvP capabilities were questioned there was no question that its industrial capacity was immense and it took full advantage of a substantial network of Non Aggression Pacts (NAPs) to put gigantic investments into the infrastructure of its regions. Indeed so wealthy did this alliance become that it became the first alliance in game to construct and unveil a Titan class ship - a massive achievement. BoB at this stage had a firm grip on its home regions of Delve and Period Basis and had friendly alliances installed in Fountain and Querious protecting its borders. It was looking for a new challenge. It had two main options: D2 was a major alliance that occupied a number of regions north of Fountain. It was in theory a major rival and enemy of BoB but BoB did not 'appear' to deem them a significant threat. The other option was ASCN - who were in theory a friendly ally - but nonetheless an increasingly serious economic threat. The full scale attack that took place on ASCN astounded most neutral commmentators who had assumed that the natural target would have been D2 in the North. Nevertheless the attack was hugely successful. BoB swiftly destroyed ASCN morale - a particular turning point was the destruction of the ASCN leader's Titan - the first ship of this type to be destroyed - and BoB 'relatively' swiftly mopped up all resistance claiming three new regions in the process. These were subsequently let out to 'renter' allies such as RISE. This conquest meant that BoB now controlled much of the South of the EVE galaxy. Their border now reached right across the south coming to rest against the domain of Loktra Volterra. Loktra Volterra (LV) was another alliance friendly to BoB. While it had stayed out of the war against ASCN it had certainly not provided their former neighbours with any help against BoB. LV had been formed in the aftermath of the collapse of the old Curse Alliance and its main corporation - Shinra - certainly comprised some of the best PvPers in EVE at the time.LV (along with a number of other alliances) had been involved in a long drawn out war versus the Red Alliance (an alliance made up completely of Russians). The Red Alliance had at one stage held onto three regions in the East of EVE but gradually had been worn down by a mass of enemies to one solitary solar system. Nevertheless in a siege reminiscent of the siege of Stalingrad the Russians held on and gradually started to win back their territory, primarily from LV's allies who started to disintegrate in the face of the Red onslaught. As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) - an alliance made up of French players - and the Goons who now entered 0.0 again following their initial setback. The Goons now numbering several thousand members were by now much more skilled, much more experienced and much more wealthy. Their numbers combined with the tactical expertise of Red Alliance and TCF really started to swing the tide against the LV. While LV was probably one of EVE's better alliances in a straight fight, it found itself hopelessly outmatched by what had started to be called the RedswarmFederation 'RSF Coalition'. LV had also gotten itself involved in another war further elsewhere in the South... ------------------------------

ISD BH Kreul Intentions ISD BH	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:32:00 - [5] FYI - Once everything is posted I'll remove posts that are in between, those who post will be able to repost what they said. Just going to go for flow factor. Thank you. forum rules \| [email protected]

Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:34:00 - [6] Catch 22... The Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate (IAC) - led by the eccentric warlord Tyraxx Thoryk - had gradually taken control of the region called Catch. What was interesting about Catch was that it was also home to several Outposts constructed by the supoosedely neutral alliance called Interstellar Starbase Syndicate (ISS). Tensions gradually rose between IAC and ISS and also between IAC and their neighbours Firmus Ixion (FIX) who were occupying the neighbouring region of Querious and enjoyed BoB's protection. The first war in this area broke out when FIX, supported by the Mercenary Coalition alliance, launched an assault on an IAC Outpost close to the Querious border. IAC with the assistance of the Axiom Empire (AXE) alliance and their neighbours the Curatores Veritatis Alliance (CVA) had successfully ended the attack and peace broke out temporarily. However IAC had been upset that ISS had allowed the FIX/MC coalition to use their Outposts for the assault and as tension grew launched an assault on an ISS Outpost. ISS immediately called in help including FIX, Mercenary Coalition and LV (mentioned above) - successfully turning the tables on IAC. Instead of taking the ISS Outpost IAC lost one of their own and were on the point of losing another when the Russian Against All Authorities (AAA) alliance entered the battle on IAC's side. The AAA alliance - an early breakaway of some of the best PvPers of Red Alliance - had a substantial capital ship fleet and the Mercenary Coalition appeared unwilling to put their ships on the line against them without guarantees of adequate recompense from ISS. When these assurances were not forthcoming MC withdrew from the fight. The start of the 'Great War'... With LV involved in defending ISS the RSF Coalition saw this at the perfect opportunity to attack LV holdings and made rapid gains. As their own territory was under threat LV also withdrew from the war in Catch leaving ISS to its fate. ISS without adequate combat support rapidly folded. IAC retook its station and also siezed other ISS stations in the Catch region. While LV were heavily fortified in their own space they were now facing a mass of enemies in the shape of the RSF coalition who were determined to destroy them. Slowly but surely they were being forced back to the point where even there own capital system was being sieged. BoB now decided to take a hand and joined in the fight on the side of LV but it was too little too late and LV collapsed with the better elements being incorporated into BoB. Despite this the intervention of BoB and allies succeeded in slowing the RSF assault and indeed quickly began to retake former LV systems in Detorid. This front temporarily devolved into a bloody stalemate ------------------------------
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:36:00 - [7] The Mongol Horde... Earlier I mentioned the Mercenary Coalition (MC) alliance. As a mercenary group MC were in theory neutral with respect to the 'Great War'. However, they owned a number of systems located in BoB space which BoB had given them many years before in return for services rendered. According to their proclomations MC would not get involved in the'Great War' unless either side coughed up enough cash. Following their withdrawal from the ISS fight MC had indeed stepped back from direct involvement in the 'Great War'. However with their intervention on the side of ISS against IAC and AAA - who were now self declared members of the anti-BoB Coaltion - many felt that their neutrality was in question. In a move which many neutrals likened to poking a beehive with a stick, AAA with some Goon support launched an attack on one of the MC's home systems while they were busy on an unrelated contract in the North. MC rushed home and succeeded in defending their systems but not before they lost a super-capital which had been under construction in one of their shipyards. ****ed off by this attack MC offered their services to BoB. This was by no means an insignificant development. MC had over the years developed one of the most impressive capital fleets in the game, piloted by many of the galaxy's best pilots. As outlined above, BoB were by now tied up in the South East fighting the RSF Coalition in Detorid. However a new front had already opened up as D2, along with a group of other Northern alliances had formed a 'Northern Coalition' which took the opportunity to take the offense against BoB (and allies) in the Fountain region. MC were directed to assist on this front. What followed was pure carnage. In a display of absolute effectiveness MC routed the Northern Coalition again and again in a example of ruthless pure power which amazed all who witnessed it. In the comparitively short timeframe of four weeks MC destroyed D2 (who were considered by to be one of the main rivals to BoB), Razor and several other members of the 'Northern Coalition' who stood in their way - in the process siezing control of numerous Outposts and systems enroute to the farthest Northern reaches of the map. Many smaller alliances with an eye to an easy gain joined MC on this campaign and were rewarded by being given these territories when MC finally withdrew. With this campaign resolved MC wound down its operations in the North and returned home. ------------------------------
Hungo Minmatar Nightfallz	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:36:00 - [8] again hardin bores eve with his long winded crap
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:38:00 - [9] The pressure mounts on The Alliance... In contrast to MC's whirlwind success in their North Western campaign BoB were slowly giving ground in the South East to the RSF Coalition. The Southern Coalition also now included alliances such as United Legion (UNL) and Knights of the Southerncross (KOS). The huge numbers of Goons, supported by the battlehardened Red Alliance and TCF had pushed BoB out of Detorid and were putting BoB and their allies under pressure in Omist. Elsewhere IAC and AAA had not sat on their hands either and had opened up another front by launching an assault on FIX alliance in Querious. BoB could not afford for FIX Alliance to fail as Querious sits like a dagger pointed at its home regions of Delve and Period Basis. Mercenary Coalition were once again called into action on 'The Alliance' side as were Axiom Empire (AXE) who also joined in the fight. The involvement of MC and AXE stopped the IAC/AAA assault and started pushing them out of Querious but unlike their previous campaign this was a heavy duty and protracted slugging match for MC and co. By now BoB had almost given over control of Omist to Coalition Forces and probing attacks were already starting to be made on BoB renter allies in Feythabolis who were getting a bit twitchy at suddenly being on the frontline of the greatest war EVE has ever seen. Playing a game of Catch... With the war teetering in an apparent knife edge BoB took one of the most controversial decision of the war. In information leaked by Goon spies it became apparent that BoB was going to leave the defence of Feythabolis to its renter allies whilst it joined FIX and MC in an assault on AAA and IAC in Catch. The consequences of this decision was two fold. Without BoB support The Alliance forces in Omist and Feythabolis started to ***** allowing the RSF Coalition to start making swift gains across the South. By now not only had they recaptured the territory that they had originally taken off LV but they were also making inroads into the territory BoB had conquered from ASCN. However as RSF started trying to consolidate and incorporate their gains into their growing Empire BoB/MC/Fix and friends launched a full scale inavsion of Catch. Despite help from AAA and some assistance from neighbours CVA, IAC simply could not defend their space against the combined forces of BoB/MC and started to buckle. After a protracted struggle over their first Outpost IAC lost four more in quick succession before the campaign against IAC subsided. Despite the IAC losses in Outposts and territory The Alliance did not push this victory through to its potentially fatal conclusion, leaving IAC with control of five Outposts Eastern Catch. ------------------------------
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:38:00 - [10] Edited by: The Mittani on 30/11/2007 16:39:21 wow thats a lot of words :o technically im not sure how 'outside' cva is since you're allied with IAC who are our brosefs, and that paxton fed vs bob thing was pretty lawl

Jeremy Paxman Special Doc	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:39:00 - [11] Originally by: Hungo again hardin bores eve with his long winded crap lol I just wet my pants
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:39:00 - [12] The 'suicide pact'... Despite their success in Catch BoB had in the process pretty much ceded everything they had gained from ASCN. This action was confirmed when BoB made a public announcement that they were pulling their remaining forces back to their home regions of Delve and Period Basis and asking all of their 'renter' alliances to do the same. This move was termed by many as a 'galactic suicide pact'. Of course this decision has had consequences. Some of BoB's allies such as Interstellar Starbase Syndicate (ISS) chose instead to withdraw to Empire rather than relocate to BoB stations and potentially have all their assets frozen at the whim of the BoB leadership. Neverthless many view BoB's move as a clever gamble designed to shorten their lines of supply and logistics whilst giving their enemies increased supply problems. It is clear that BoB will enjoy many advantages fighting on their own turf in Delve and Period Basis and no one with any sense would ever bet against BoB. Similarly the Coalition appears to have gathered a significant amount of momentum. AAA and IAC are starting to claim back space in Catch whilst the Northern Coalition has rebuilt itself following the MC blitzkreig and is once again contributing to the assault on BoB. Are we drawing to an end of this Great War which has gripped EVE for the last two years or is this merely the start of a new chapter! We shall have to wait and see :) The position as it stands now: http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Verite/newblocmap.png ------------------------------
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:41:00 - [13] ok since my other post will be nuked for being between all the words: the thing about the suicide pact is that it wasn't only ISS who said 'screw this' and left aftermath never moved into delve like they were supposed to, they left for curse likewise digital renegades isn't in the theatre anymore iirc youwhat is in syndicate or at least some of them
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:42:00 - [14] To the whiners - you are not obliged to read it. If you don't like it fine. I am sure to many it is probably all old news but I thought some of you may be interested. If you're not then it's no skin off my nose ------------------------------
Shadoo North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:42:00 - [15] That's a lot of text... on a quick glance seems accurate from my point of view at least, thou a lot of credit is given to certain organizations where perhaps credit is not deserved. But that's neither here or there, it's all PR after all.
JeanPaul Sartre 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:43:00 - [16] I read "Career in PR" and "portrayal as balanced as possible" and couldn't help but laugh. Thanks for the post! -- Quote: If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.
Aggape Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Aggape on 30/11/2007 16:45:59 It started good, but became worse with every poast. 4/10
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:48:00 - [18] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/11/2007 16:54:47 Originally by: Hardin BoB in conjunction with a number of alliances including ASCN (at that time EVE's largest alliance) vowed to remove Goons from 0.0. At a ASCN director at the time, I can tell you a bit more about this. ASCN had Goons as positive, then were made neutral due to the bob v goon conflict. With the hostiles at the time being anyone red on a Standings chart ASCN had. At the time, BoB themselves were put as negative. Some more hints were passed to shoot any hostiles in Goon area, and even more indirect hints being not to attack bob, but present yourself as a target and retaliate if need be. Eventually, towards the end of the Bob v Goon war, CYVOK made a Alliance mail saying that goons will be hostile due to doing something they should not have. Even then, other than some unorganised, bored pvper making lone ranger charges, ASCN as a alliance was not involved in removing Goons. Towards the end of the BoB v ASCN war, goons were set positive again, not that it mattered as most corps had/were leaving ASCN by then. Again this is coming from memory so correct me if I missed anything out. ASCN never vowed to remove goons, however, given that the Alliance leader at the time used to say a ...... lot of things.... I think it was the politics game that gave you that perception. -- Billion Isk Mission
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:54:00 - [19] Edited by: Hardin on 30/11/2007 16:54:42 As I said at the start (for those who could be bothered to actually read before they started criticising) this is a 'personal' view of the events from an OUTSIDER. Are there mistakes and errors - no doubt - This is just my own take on the events of the past couple of years right or wrong! If people do want to pull it to pieces then by all means go right ahead. As stated this is simply my own perspective (and I honestly have no axe to grind) with either the Coalition or the Alliance... I suppose I should expect a bit of abuse - after all it is a pretty sensitive subject! ------------------------------
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:55:00 - [20] tl;dr

Emo Thug Rage And Tantrums	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:55:00 - [21] Edited by: Emo Thug on 30/11/2007 16:56:02 Its even roleplayed for you
Martin Mckenna D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.30 16:58:00 - [22] Very good post. ---------------------------------------------
TeufelsBeitrag Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Hardin In the comparitively short timeframe of four weeks MC destroyed D2 (who were considered by to be one of the main rivals to BoB), Razor and several other members of the 'Northern Coalition' who stood in their way - in the process siezing control of numerous Outposts and systems enroute to the farthest Northern reaches of the map. Razor were never destroyed.
Black Torment Caldari Black Omega Security	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:00:00 - [24] Edited by: Black Torment on 30/11/2007 17:00:36 Read 1/2 so far, you got most of the facts straight, but.. Quote: Of course while success breeds success it also breeds resentment and jealousy. Those disposssessd in BoB conflicts (and not invited to join the party) grew increasingly bitter about BoB's success and spread resentment wherever they went. Doesn't seem entirely unbiased to me.. Also reference to stalingrad? You just broke CAOD's #1 unwritten rule, don't compare stuff to RL wars or someone's gonna get upset. Other than that its passable I guess.. continues reading
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:01:00 - [25] Originally by: TeufelsBeitrag Originally by: Hardin In the comparitively short timeframe of four weeks MC destroyed D2 (who were considered by to be one of the main rivals to BoB), Razor and several other members of the 'Northern Coalition' who stood in their way - in the process siezing control of numerous Outposts and systems enroute to the farthest Northern reaches of the map. Razor were never destroyed. Good point - I should have said evicted... ------------------------------
hangnoose Caldari The Illuminati. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:05:00 - [26] Edited by: hangnoose on 30/11/2007 17:06:20 Originally by: TeufelsBeitrag Originally by: Hardin In the comparitively short timeframe of four weeks MC destroyed D2 (who were considered by to be one of the main rivals to BoB), Razor and several other members of the 'Northern Coalition' who stood in their way - in the process siezing control of numerous Outposts and systems enroute to the farthest Northern reaches of the map. Razor were never destroyed. Indeed, if I remember right d2 were the only ones in the north to completely disband, everyone else either switched sides or dropped out of the war. You also don't mention razor/mm/pure/hydra re took branch and tenal from the alliances mc installed there and Tri took deklein from the alliances that took control of that space. If I was an outsider reading this it would seem to me bob friendly alliances still hold the north >_>
Goberth Ludwig eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:06:00 - [27] Originally by: Hungo again hardin bores eve with his long winded crap Next time he'll insert some pictures for the less gifted people like you. - Gob IXC Recruitment
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:10:00 - [28] for one of the better 'on its face' histories of the great war i strongly recommend Yalson's posts from the FIX board and now the MC boards, they are pretty awesome he misses a lot of the behind the scenes politics (becuase that doesn't get posted on forums of course) but he's excellent with citing and referencing stuff i think he fell for our 'resetting stain' troll though sorry brosef
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:14:00 - [29] Originally by: hangnoose If I was an outsider reading this it would seem to me bob friendly alliances still hold the north >_> I did kinda rush the end as it was long enough. The last post contains this paragraph: ...whilst the Northern Coalition has rebuilt itself following the MC blitzkreig and is once again contributing to the assault on BoB. As I said at start my 'Northern' knowledge is sketchy whereas 'down South' I was always much more of an interested observer. Similarly in relation to some of Mittani's comments above when Goons arrived on the scene I wasn't really paying that much attention (similar to most people there) and as a result that section is very general and no doubt could be filled in much better by people who were there. What I was trying to get across here was more of a 'flavour' of the ebb and flow of the conflict rather than a 100% accurate account... ------------------------------
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Seleene Awesome stuff, Hardin; about as good a summary as can be expected from an 'outsider' point of view. I really should poke Yalson about consolidating all of his posts into one location for reference. we should have archives of the fix ones somewhere, he was actually one of the first people to realize i had anything to do with stuff, and he called it right from the very start though actually he said that maybe it was Xirtram behind things too so welp, maybe its just my internet space tyrant ego talkin

Cippalippus Primus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:27:00 - [31] Edited by: Cippalippus Primus on 30/11/2007 17:27:11 From an outsider's point of view this is pretty accurate, and even if very long, an extremely interesting read.
Ramlir 0.0 Corp	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:34:00 - [32] Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre I read "Career in PR" and "portrayal as balanced as possible" and couldn't help but laugh. Thanks for the post! Agreed lol
Maxima Maxi Pink Bunnies C0VEN	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:36:00 - [33] [/URL]
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:36:00 - [34] Nice read, but you got a major timeline error: D2 entered the fray only days after Bob declared it's assault on RSF. You make it sound like it was much later... ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Scarcus Caldari Stain of Mind	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:37:00 - [35] Thanks for the historical write-up, Hardin. It is much appreciated. Once NOL has been purged with cleansing fire, and all the vassals are put to the sword, I'm sure we'll have a lovely little cold war, your bloc and ours. Originally by: KIATolon Chowdown, if you use your t
Helen coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:42:00 - [36] A few errors need pointing out. ASCN didn't vow to kill off Goons it was mostly AXE alliance that went for the ride with just a few ASCN pvpers deciding to blob up on the Goons. RA has never completely consisted of Russians, I know because I'm not Russian and have been part of RA there is plenty of Americans/Europeans in RA. Otherwise a very nice broad overview of 0.0 history. First pod pilot to lose a Mothership in EvE... err woo
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:42:00 - [37] nice looks like you did about as much 'work' at work today as me :D ----------
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:43:00 - [38] Originally by: Ramlir Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre I read "Career in PR" and "portrayal as balanced as possible" and couldn't help but laugh. Thanks for the post! Agreed lol There is a common misperception that PR is all about spin and lies when it is a tried and tested truth that the best PR is often generated by being as honest and straightforward as possible. Of course no one will ever believe a PR person who says that but heh what can you do ------------------------------
Cassiuss Minmatar Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 17:54:00 - [39] Originally by: Helen A few errors need pointing out. ASCN didn't vow to kill off Goons...rabble... It was to ASCN!!! I know I was there!!! It was Gilbert and Cyvok!! Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Silvestri Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:01:00 - [40] Edited by: Silvestri on 30/11/2007 18:01:37 Wow...very nice read Hardin. It even made me reactivate my acct. I pray as I get back into the swing of things they fixed lag...or will in Trinity. The Fix post almost brought me out of retirement as I also have huge respect to FIX... MC actually had 2 major assaults on IAC. As tensions grew between IAC and ISS we really didn't know who hired MC on us for prohibtion 2....But we suspected ISS. They put up a bunch of POS's...We noticed bigger patrols as well when we were invading whoever used to live in Immensea. -V- rings a bell but not sure. But after the second invasion IAC members were really just out for ISS blood. But our president's (we cycled a few) and executive's held the reigns on us. But after peer pressure most of us convinced the exec's to let go of the reigns and we went all out on ISS. So...was it truly ISS that hired MC the second time? So many rumors went around. Come on Seleene...it's all water under the bridge now.... Edit...after posting I realize I got the boot from IAC. Goes to show the kick inactive members...lol

fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:05:00 - [41] Nice read http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Salastil Rens 911	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:05:00 - [42] When did BoB ever contest Detorid? It's not possible to contest Detorid without passing through Immensea, which also was never contested. Also Red Alliance controlled Detorid, Immensea, Wicked Creek, Scalding Pass, Insmother, and Cache after booting the Five out which caused Lotka Volterra to be formed. LV wasn't formed when Curse Alliance broke up.
Exaali Vendraxxil REUNI0N Red Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:38:00 - [43] Edited by: Exaali Vendraxxil on 30/11/2007 18:39:22 Originally by: Helen RA has never completely consisted of Russians, I know because I'm not Russian and have been part of RA there is plenty of Americans/Europeans in RA. Very true. Also, TCF aren't new friends of RA - many of the corps that make it up used to be in RA proper but broke off to form their own separate alliance. Also, ATUK/5 had renter alliances in their space long before BoB existed as in IGA.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:40:00 - [44] The topic is interesting but it's a wall of text. I'll read that. Wall of text... :( 2isk
Awox Advanced Logistics	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:43:00 - [45] I can say that the OP is mostly correct. I was planted into Veritas Immortalis by MACTEP to spy on Light Darkness. When Veritas Immortalis fell I was retired by MACTEP and went off doing my own thing, mostly pirating in low-sec. Pirating in low-sec became a bit boring, so now I run top-secret courier missions for MACTEP and other high-ranking Red Alliance captains, occasionally I have been known to move the odd package for GoonSwarm aswell. Funny how things work out. -- ADVL CEO. LootTrack Sales KB
Jehle Minmatar Black Watch Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:47:00 - [46] Damn you Hardin! Damn you to hell!! You make territorial warfare sound so fun and exciting. Thanks for taking the time to write this up. Was a great read, and well written. Many thanks Jehle
Gnarrkilly Damned Legion Mournival Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:49:00 - [47] A good read, I enjoyed it. I'm sure theres a few people on either side with sore pride that would dispute some facts but I didn't read anything that made me scoff. I hope your attempt to seduce more people to come to eve works out well. This would look good in a certain magazine ;) Also plenty mentions of me aswell as a few closeups would be nice ;) Seriously, gj though mate. ------------- Gnarrkilly - Ceo Damned Legion - Recruitment Open "Reasonably priced brutality"
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:55:00 - [48] Originally by: Hardin The 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude changed when it was discovered that a number of Goon members had been making fun of the real life death of another EVE player. This incident was widely condemned by the majority of the EVE community but it particularly incensed the BoB membership. Coincidentally this incident happened around the time Goons took their first tentative steps in 0.0. On this particular story, and with a better knowledge of the Goon spirit than when it was flamed everywhere, what can I say is : what the **. This story again ? One post decided the fate of this war ? I think it's not true. I am not fighting for one post. If I mock someone like "oh your mama died, cool because you suck" today, I'll be probably expelled from my alliance, and be podkilled in cycles until I quit the game. But my alliance wouldn't start a war vs an alliance for this. Bob fight us for, at first, a view of the game that RSF don't have. We fight for another view. RL issues have nothing to do about it. And if I told somebody died in my corp to any Goon, they'll be the first to flame it. That is their spirit. My alliance is allied with iconoclasts. My alliance point of vue is that they don't care. My personal motivation is fighting with the original guys vs the uncreative-conservative people. I like creativity. Too much is a flaw. But I personally don't care this flaw. The conservative mind, to me, is a greater flaw than the "OMG I'm Alice in Wonderland" flaw because Eve is a game. I want each day to be full of surprises. This "omg this guys died truck" bull** is the only excuse of a war Bob have against Goons. Some people would say too late in the Coalition. I'd say too bad you've though of nothing else. I continue to read the thread now :) 2isk
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 18:59:00 - [49] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:00:11 Originally by: Hardin As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) (...) You need intel. :) I'd say RA are one of our uncle (who was born before you per say). -edit- Also, the RaGoons defeated LV. RSF was after their fall. 2isk
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:09:00 - [50] I'm not sure I really like these "bloc maps". They're misleading at best -- we have nearly half the entities neutral in our "bloc". Hardin, I also think you forgot to mention CHIMP alliance and their fall to United Legion.

YouShallKnowFear Fourty-Two	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:11:00 - [51] CVA has a vested interest in the success and survival of IAC. You aided them in catch conflicts, and attempted to disrupt a bob cyno chain in Providence. You are not neutral, and you are not an "outsider".
Haargoth Agamar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:15:00 - [52] Originally by: BlackHorizon I'm not sure I really like these "bloc maps". They're misleading at best -- we have nearly half the entities neutral in our "bloc". Hardin, I also think you forgot to mention CHIMP alliance and their fall to United Legion. I think thats a bit irrelevant because by the time CHIMP died most of the better corporations had moved on and they really were a shadow of what they were before. This is a broad overview, not a specific detailed one.
Hardin Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:15:00 - [53] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:00:11 Originally by: Hardin As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) (...) You need intel. :) I'd say RA are one of our uncle (who was born before you per say). -edit- Also, the RaGoons defeated LV. RSF was after their fall. Yeah as I said at start its not perfect and there are errors - for example as someone pointed out I got the Detorid thing wrong - and yes I have overlooked some things completely... Maybe I will go back and revise it with the more constructive criticisms at another stage... As I said before my point was really go give a 'feeling' to the war as it went back and forth not to be 100% accurate as I think that is impossible for any 'outsider' to be fully accurate at least not without spending several weeks/months reviewing old threads and interviewing the participants personally - which is a job I will leave to someone else (as I really don't have that much time ) - despite how it may appear... Finally to the TCF guy ranting on about the whole 'death' thing of course it is not the only reason for the whole war and many other factors are now involved but it was certainly an important part in creating bad blood between Goons and BoB and that does have an influence on how things played out... Of course we could all get in our time machines and speculate on potential outcomes in parallel universe ------------------------------
Haargoth Agamar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:17:00 - [54] Originally by: YouShallKnowFear CVA has a vested interest in the success and survival of IAC. You aided them in catch conflicts, and attempted to disrupt a bob cyno chain in Providence. You are not neutral, and you are not an "outsider". Well maybe they did not appreciate us going around killing them and their friends in Providence and wanted to annoy us back? I don`t really see how CVA has a vested interest in the war, just to help IAC when they need help. But what do I know.
Skool Daze	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:22:00 - [55] This is bull.****. This is the real history: End of BOB started when Sirmolle started "tick tock" topics. Annoying all eve community and not only their enemies. Now do you see that tick tock topics anymore? BOB attacked ASCN because CYVOK thought he become GOD after having the first titan and told something stupid on the forums like "we'll let you keep fountain if you surrender now." BOB killed ASCN with the help of Developers and titan overpower. They couldn't do this today at this new game mechanics. Nevertheless since titans been nerfed BOB is losing space and will lose more and more. GOON will kill BOB because Sirmolle said "there are no goons." not thinking that one day all that low skilled pilots become high skilled. So all this wars are because of forum smacktalk and ego war, it all starts here and ends in game.
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:22:00 - [56] The early section regarding BoB uses a lot more subjectivity than many of the other sections with comments like "of course they..." and stuff like that. You could easily prune the more blatant examples and have a truer piece through there. Goon's initial defeat wasn't actually at the hands of BoB at all. They fought a hard struggle against D2 and eventually lost. Only after this did BoB show up, declare death to all goons, shoot their remnants a bit and declare that they had conquered the evil goons. Lots of loud posturing, very little actual work. I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres.
Kortalis Hellion Gallente The Taining corp Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:34:00 - [57] Amazing read, thanks
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:34:00 - [58] Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. I'd fully agree with that comment, but also point out that it was coupled with a change in perception of Goons. They went from being a carefree, innovative alliance that posted some hilarious stuff (remember the 'little bee' animation to request larger alliances?) to storming the forums with Threadnoughts, RL abuse and borderline illegal spam. Whereas most felt goodwill to them in the 'old days' (myself included, belive it or not) they've squandered that goodwill and turned it to disgust.
Gnome Chomsky 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:34:00 - [59] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: Hardin The 'ignore them and they will go away' attitude changed when it was discovered that a number of Goon members had been making fun of the real life death of another EVE player. This incident was widely condemned by the majority of the EVE community but it particularly incensed the BoB membership. Coincidentally this incident happened around the time Goons took their first tentative steps in 0.0. On this particular story, and with a better knowledge of the Goon spirit than when it was flamed everywhere, what can I say is : what the **. This story again ? One post decided the fate of this war ? I think it's not true. I am not fighting for one post. If I mock someone like "oh your mama died, cool because you suck" today, I'll be probably expelled from my alliance, and be podkilled in cycles until I quit the game. But my alliance wouldn't start a war vs an alliance for this. Bob fight us for, at first, a view of the game that RSF don't have. We fight for another view. RL issues have nothing to do about it. And if I told somebody died in my corp to any Goon, they'll be the first to flame it. That is their spirit. My alliance is allied with iconoclasts. My alliance point of vue is that they don't care. My personal motivation is fighting with the original guys vs the uncreative-conservative people. I like creativity. Too much is a flaw. But I personally don't care this flaw. The conservative mind, to me, is a greater flaw than the "OMG I'm Alice in Wonderland" flaw because Eve is a game. I want each day to be full of surprises. This "omg this guys died truck" bull** is the only excuse of a war Bob have against Goons. Some people would say too late in the Coalition. I'd say too bad you've though of nothing else. I continue to read the thread now :) Both you and I know how to behave, even on this anonymous internet. For those that do not, you should not overlook moral flaws so easily. </serious_post>
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:35:00 - [60] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:35:22 Originally by: Hardin Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 30/11/2007 19:00:11 Originally by: Hardin As Red Alliance began to win back territory they made new friends. These included the Tau Ceti Federation (TCF) (...) You need intel. :) I'd say RA are one of our uncle (who was born before you per say). -edit- Also, the RaGoons defeated LV. RSF was after their fall. Yeah as I said at start its not perfect and there are errors - for example as someone pointed out I got the Detorid thing wrong - and yes I have overlooked some things completely... Maybe I will go back and revise it with the more constructive criticisms at another stage... As I said before my point was really go give a 'feeling' to the war as it went back and forth not to be 100% accurate as I think that is impossible for any 'outsider' to be fully accurate at least not without spending several weeks/months reviewing old threads and interviewing the participants personally - which is a job I will leave to someone else (as I really don't have that much time ) - despite how it may appear... Finally to the TCF guy ranting on about the whole 'death' thing of course it is not the only reason for the whole war and many other factors are now involved but it was certainly an important part in creating bad blood between Goons and BoB and that does have an influence on how things played out... Of course we could all get in our time machines and speculate on potential outcomes in parallel universe I edited my post to be more precise. I'm also just slightly drunk :) Anyway. Bob dislike goons about this. Goons disliked Bob about the arrogancy they showed to any lossing alliance after they won. It's like being bullied and bullied and bullied. They though they had something more to say than "yes Band of Brothers, you're right we shall not doing something in 0.0 without asking first". They were victims after the Goon/Bob war. And they were spitted on. They had numbers for them. and now they have the experience of lossing in the game. It is strange because "Bob loose" is two words completly new to anyone who played the game more than 1 year and a half. This sould like "the **** smells good" or any oxymoron you could learn, something like "Goons win". -...edited here 5 lines that would be flamed so much :)...- Guess what : RA, Goons, TCF all experienced the failure. And we all don't like people who win all the time. Bob, loosers are your doom. People that were spitted upon when they lost the ability. People they wish they could. People that can now. And I hope for your gaming experience that we'll not haunt you. We never lost the faith. 2isk

Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:39:00 - [61] Haha! Doomed to flames from the start, Hardin; a story so vast and involving so many conflicts and organizations...one miswording on each account and you'll have all the haters from each organization setting the record straight in their own colorful way. But that's really what makes territorial warfare so exciting; the mechanics in Eve that we all hate so much (particularly as relates to seige warfare) are the mechanics that shape epic conflicts and force the involvement of so many people. Even if the details are wrong (I wouldn't know, I have a hard time keeping up with it all) this accounting very nicely captures the scope and scale of Eve and 0.0 life. It's a big story writing itself as we play...flames and trolling be damned. As for "disrupting cyno chains;" stations in Providence that are placed without permission get knocked down (or at least futilely attacked ) particularly if they belong to an organization who regularly shoots at CVA pilots and neutrals in Providence. We shoot at Red Alliance, Goons, and -A- as well...any implication that we have a "vested interest" in this war simply based on who we shoot at would imply our vested interest is to be at war with nearly every organization involved on either side of this war. That's quite obviously not in the interests of a 600 member alliance with space to defend
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:41:00 - [62] Originally by: Mistress Suffering The early section regarding BoB uses a lot more subjectivity than many of the other sections with comments like "of course they..." and stuff like that. You could easily prune the more blatant examples and have a truer piece through there. Bob's command new PR make people think this. They STFU when they asked themselves if they could defend LV. Though I don't know how many time they said to LV this was a safe fight. 2isk
Mynas Atoch Eternity INC. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:42:00 - [63] Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 30/11/2007 19:43:38 Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. The M.Pire turning point and the rift with MC also came with the realization that BOB can't possibly win. Now they are just living on borrowed time while the coalitions and other former friends jockey for control over strategy and the disposal of their space. Speculation has moved on, to whether the BOB plan to cut its losses and static assets, and go mobile will keep the resulting smaller 700/800 man PvP alliance together, and how many of their 23 stations need to be succesfully sieged before they run. Myn --- Sir Molle says : Mynas is Dead!
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:44:00 - [64] Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. I'd fully agree with that comment, but also point out that it was coupled with a change in perception of Goons. They went from being a carefree, innovative alliance that posted some hilarious stuff (remember the 'little bee' animation to request larger alliances?) to storming the forums with Threadnoughts, RL abuse and borderline illegal spam. Whereas most felt goodwill to them in the 'old days' (myself included, belive it or not) they've squandered that goodwill and turned it to disgust. Nobody can controm 4000 creative minds. In your RL work, are you the exact replica of what wants your CEO to be ? Most of people are not. 2isk
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:45:00 - [65] Good reading, Hardin. However, as you yourself pointed out, not historically precise or complete in all accounts. I think the main drawback of your post is that you seem to have relatively little insight of the current and past developments in the North. The Northern Coalition played a not to be underestimated role in the fall of LV in the beginning of the war. Their attack in Fountain, which happened simultaniously to the Southern Coalition attack on LV, caused BoB to cease most military support they would have otherwise given to LV. If Fountain would not have been attacked by the Northern Coalition, BoB could and would have given LV fullscale support, and it is questionable if LV would have fallen so quick. Without the intervention from MC and the sideswitching from YouWhat, the North would have played a large part in the following months of the war, mainly involving the Fountain region of the BoB territory. But this is hypothetical, since MC did intervene, and effectively bound Northern forces in their home territory. It is not unlikely that the Northern bloc will play a part in the war again in the future. Many in the North continue to look unfavourably upon the BoB control of Fountain. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:46:00 - [66] This is fairly accurate except for the stuff Mittani pointed out. Good read.
Haniblecter Teg F.R.E.E. Explorer Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:54:00 - [67] I like how the OP skipped 3 years of history and got straight to bob 'pets', a fairly new--relative to EVE's age--term. ----------------- Friends Forever
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:56:00 - [68] Originally by: Garreck Haha! Doomed to flames from the start, Hardin; a story so vast and involving so many conflicts and organizations...one miswording on each account and you'll have all the haters from each organization setting the record straight in their own colorful way. Clever post. Some might flame my point of vue if they understand my english, I know that. I'd want to say... Oh whatever. Pewpew ! :) 2isk
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:58:00 - [69] Originally by: Mynas Atoch Edited by: Mynas Atoch on 30/11/2007 19:43:38 Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. The M.Pire turning point and the rift with MC also came with the realization that BOB can't possibly win. Now they are just living on borrowed time while the coalitions and other former friends jockey for control over strategy and the disposal of their space. Speculation has moved on, to whether the BOB plan to cut its losses and static assets, and go mobile will keep the resulting smaller 700/800 man PvP alliance together, and how many of their 23 stations need to be succesfully sieged before they run. Myn --- I think we can wait for another two year to see this. Less is speculation. Newbies can wait long, the game is great. 2isk
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 19:59:00 - [70] Originally by: Awox I can say that the OP is mostly correct. I was planted into Veritas Immortalis by MACTEP to spy on Light Darkness. When Veritas Immortalis fell I was retired by MACTEP and went off doing my own thing, mostly pirating in low-sec. Pirating in low-sec became a bit boring, so now I run top-secret courier missions for MACTEP and other high-ranking Red Alliance captains, occasionally I have been known to move the odd package for GoonSwarm aswell. Funny how things work out. guys my gimmick

FOFOFOF CRAPSTORM	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:05:00 - [71] you forgot: fade to black, credits...
Gnome Chomsky 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:10:00 - [72] Originally by: Mynas Atoch The M.Pire turning point and the rift with MC also came with the realization that BOB can't possibly win. Now they are just living on borrowed time while the coalitions and other former friends jockey for control over strategy and the disposal of their space. Speculation has moved on, to whether the BOB plan to cut its losses and static assets, and go mobile will keep the resulting smaller 700/800 man PvP alliance together, and how many of their 23 stations need to be succesfully sieged before they run. Myn --- So.. what your saying is: There are no BoB?
Gnome Chomsky 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:11:00 - [73] Originally by: Berrik Radhok This is fairly accurate except for the stuff Mittani pointed out. Good read. srsly.. we need a :suckcock: emote. Amirite?
Dungar Loghoth Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:13:00 - [74] A few factual errors: Red Alliance held a lot more than three territories at it's peak. If you look on the political maps, it's probably closer to 6-7. Red Alliance didn't seriously start taking territory back until after Goonswarm moved south. I don't want to diminish what RA did - they did have the vast majority of the capitals at the time. I think the only places they actually controlled was Cache and C-J in Insmother; it was only after Goonswarm moved down that they began evicting KOS. TCF joined in about the same time, though after Goonswarm I believe. I just don't want it sounding like either Goonswarm or TCF are band-wagoners. RA probably could have killed off KOS by themselves, but their biggest problem was timezone coverage, not numbers. They could field a very battleship heavy, very skilled fleet, but only during their primetime. TCF gave them European coverage and Goonswarm gave them American coverage. The Smoske/Goonfleet's first steps into 0.0 thing weren't even close to one another. D2 tower-spammed XZH before that, and after a solid month of what is still the toughest fighting I've seen, Goonfleet withdrew. It was only after Goonfleet left Cloudring and was regoruping it's assets in Empire/Syndicate that BoB came down for two weeks (10 days , but I'm feeling generous) and blew up a few unrelated towers. I can honestly say after the Cloudring campaign, the vast majority of people took a break from EVE, and those that didn't ****** around with BoB on their VCBee alts. The claim that they kicked Goonswarm out of Syndicate is not only insane but unsupportable. The part about RFS attacking LV while they were helping ISS is also wrong. Goonswarm and LV had a POS NAP going so they could go and fight in Catch instead; I think everyone at that point wanted to play a little bit where the stakes weren't personally so high. After MC pulled out of Catch, Goonfleet knew IAC and AAA would be able to kick out ISS by themselves, and LV knew it was hopeless as well, as they were not willing to come with capitals. So we went back to fighting in Detorid, where Goonswarm put up three large POSs in DG-, which I assume LV figured was for carriers to assign fighters from, store ammo, and refit/repair ships; a violation of the POS nap in the strictest of senses, but not anything near enough to pose a threat to LV's 20-some large POS majority. The POS nap was only broken when LV tried to kill the last tower in DG- (I think they killed the other two or Goonswarm pulled them down, I don't remember). I'm sure most people remember (or have seen the video) that morning when the tower came out of reinforced and LV lost 15+ capitals to RA/Goonswarm. Shortly after the POS nap was really broken and like 2 weeks later LV was dead booya
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:20:00 - [75] Originally by: Gnome Chomsky Originally by: Berrik Radhok This is fairly accurate except for the stuff Mittani pointed out. Good read. srsly.. we need a :suckcock: emote. Amirite? sartre has been doing pretty good but you're terrible at trolling
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:46:00 - [76] Some interesting history revision from our foes on the other side of the fence. Whatever http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Arbitrus Caldari SPARTAN Peacekeeping Force DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.11.30 20:54:00 - [77] wow, with all those posts, so full of info, some of it true, some of it not, where the **** did you get the time to do all that? like, you must have just disappeared for a bit huh? ----------------------------------------------- Come Home with your shield, or come home on it. Signature dimensions exceeds max 400x120 dimensions allowed. Mail us if you have any questions -Targoviste
FOFOFOF CRAPSTORM	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:04:00 - [78] Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. To me, the turning point was the first form of the coalition back to LV war, including D2. At that time most of the game became bob or no-bob, the rest is just consequence...
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:10:00 - [79] Originally by: Gnome Chomsky Originally by: Berrik Radhok This is fairly accurate except for the stuff Mittani pointed out. Good read. srsly.. we need a :suckcock: emote. Amirite? shut up RadioWombat
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:19:00 - [80] Originally by: fire 59 LIES! if you think they're wrong, why don't you post your version of events instead of just yelling LIES! (). please point out the inaccuracies itt. --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2

General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:21:00 - [81] Originally by: Kweel Nakashyn Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Mistress Suffering I think the key turning point is entirely in the change in perception of BoB, but that's hard to claim from a truly fact-based objective. How do you truly prove perception changes. BoB was viewed as an unstoppable force for a long time, the moment people (both inside and outside of BoB) started to realize that no, BoB might actually lose, there were huge ripples throughout many political spheres. I'd fully agree with that comment, but also point out that it was coupled with a change in perception of Goons. They went from being a carefree, innovative alliance that posted some hilarious stuff (remember the 'little bee' animation to request larger alliances?) to storming the forums with Threadnoughts, RL abuse and borderline illegal spam. Whereas most felt goodwill to them in the 'old days' (myself included, belive it or not) they've squandered that goodwill and turned it to disgust. Nobody can controm 4000 creative minds. In your RL work, are you the exact replica of what wants your CEO to be ? Most of people are not. Creative minds? Don't make me laugh, Goons have been churning out the same, stale spin for months if not years. Their jokes are increasingly repetitive and they seem to have lost the originality that once made them different. As for your paper-thin analogy about 'being the carbon copy of my CEO'... that's got to be one of the lamest defence of Goon hysteria I've ever head. I may not be a carbon copy of my CEO, but if I did something that well beyond any kind of moral standards, and consistently acted in a destructive way that bordered on illegality he's sure as hell kick me out. Sadly, Goon command doesn't have enough control over its pilots to do that. Either that, or it implicitly supports that kind of behaviour. What a weak argument you make.
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:23:00 - [82] Edited by: General Windypops on 30/11/2007 21:23:23 Originally by: Berrik Radhok This is fairly accurate except for the stuff Mittani pointed out. Good read. Translation: "I wish I was more like you, Mittani - please respond to my evemails some time - I really think we could be friends". I knew Goons were desperate for each others approval, but that post made me want to vomit into my Guinness glass :(
Torshin Prophets Of a Damned Universe	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:31:00 - [83] Originally by: Skool Daze This is bull.****. This is the real history: End of BOB started when Sirmolle started "tick tock" topics. Annoying all eve community and not only their enemies. Now do you see that tick tock topics anymore? BOB attacked ASCN because CYVOK thought he become GOD after having the first titan and told something stupid on the forums like "we'll let you keep fountain if you surrender now." BOB killed ASCN with the help of Developers and titan overpower. They couldn't do this today at this new game mechanics. Nevertheless since titans been nerfed BOB is losing space and will lose more and more. GOON will kill BOB because Sirmolle said "there are no goons." not thinking that one day all that low skilled pilots become high skilled. So all this wars are because of forum smacktalk and ego war, it all starts here and ends in game. bob attacked ASCN before the We will let you keep fountain line. DBP said there are no goons
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:32:00 - [84] Originally by: Torshin bob attacked ASCN before the We will let you keep fountain line. DBP said there are no goons nope "there are no goons this is as personal as it will ever get goodbye" that's a molle line. well, one of his many ghostwriters
JeanPaul Sartre 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:38:00 - [85] Originally by: General Windypops Translation: "I wish I was more like you, Mittani - please respond to my evemails some time - I really think we could be friends". I knew Goons were desperate for each others approval, but that post made me want to vomit into my Guinness glass :( I thought the Gnome guys troll was better than yours, but Muttons shot it down in flames -- Quote: If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 21:56:00 - [86] Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre I thought the Gnome guys troll was better than yours, but Muttons shot it down in flames the current ranking is: sartre > alice (but pretty far behind) > ReeRee > (way far behind) Gnome > (absolutely the worst) Windypops the problem is that you dont really even troll much anymore sartre you just chill which is cool reeree quit alice is going through a rocky period and i think we should band together with her (like brothers) to help her get back on track gnome is terrible and thank god he almost never tries, but windypops is the worst troll
Kyguard Fire Mandrill	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:00:00 - [87] Most of the mistakes have already been pointed out, apart from the MC North Campaign - of the major entities it was really only D2 has completely collapsed, RZR just lost their space and regrouped while MM didn't lose any space at all. Interesting read nonetheless. - Latest Video
Alz Shado Ever Flow DeStInY.	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:01:00 - [88] You left out FREGE's sieges on the station services in NOL and surrounding systems, and even the temporary capture of one of their stations.
Sith8 The Collective Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:05:00 - [89] Thanx for a good post Hardin, it¦s good to see that someone bothers to put something meaningful here for a change. -A- was formed by RAT, some former SE corps such as XB, VVS,PPN and COL, a former SA corp. Strangely enough it was the fight for the 10/10 in E3- that made those 3 cooperate in the first place, when AXE wanted in on the centus goodness. So thanx SteelRat
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:07:00 - [90] Just a minor point; IAC and LV had a NAP just prior to the time of cough issues cough between IAC and ISS. That NAP got broken after a er... certain 'incident' whilst an IAC fleet was enroute to help out Huzzah from an AAA siege... ("Gadzooks! these blues be shootin' us! Kill them!!111 ) ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'

General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:11:00 - [91] Originally by: The Mittani Originally by: JeanPaul Sartre I thought the Gnome guys troll was better than yours, but Muttons shot it down in flames the current ranking is: sartre > alice (but pretty far behind) > ReeRee > (way far behind) Gnome > (absolutely the worst) Windypops the problem is that you dont really even troll much anymore sartre you just chill which is cool reeree quit alice is going through a rocky period and i think we should band together with her (like brothers) to help her get back on track gnome is terrible and thank god he almost never tries, but windypops is the worst troll Good god, Mittani, I knew Goons were taking the game far too seriously these days, but you're even ranking 'trolls' now. Seriously, chill out, and play the game. Being ranked 'worst poster' by someone who embodies all you loathe in Eve is kind of like being considered too damn sexy in an ugly parade.
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:26:00 - [92] Windy****s you claim to be a "main" yet you're in a one-man corp, which was founded by you on your first day in the game. You sound more like an "alt" to me. How do you respond, sir? --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
JeanPaul Sartre 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:29:00 - [93] Originally by: Marko Zhang Windy**s you claim to be a "main" yet you're in a one-man corp, which was founded by you on your first day in the game. You sound more like an "alt" to me. How do you respond, sir? HE'S A WITCH, BURN HER! -- Quote:** If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:39:00 - [94] Edited by: fire 59 on 30/11/2007 22:41:50 Originally by: Marko Zhang Originally by: fire 59 LIES! if you think they're wrong, why don't you post your version of events instead of just yelling LIES! (). please point out the inaccuracies itt. Well one example of history revision is that snigg guy saying we were down there for 10 days. Interesting,ahem,tale seeing as i was with the fleet for around a month down there so know first hand that it's utter plop. Edit - theres a tonne more especially from that drunk tcf guy but, seeing as i'm quite drunk myself now. We would be in for a long night of arguing which is why i simply pointed out that porkies were being told. Nothing new with the coalition http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:45:00 - [95] Originally by: Marko Zhang Windy****s you claim to be a "main" yet you're in a one-man corp, which was founded by you on your first day in the game. You sound more like an "alt" to me. How do you respond, sir? So, erm, one man corps are alts? Let's have a look here... Marko Zhang: Member of Destructive Flatulence Member count: 1 Previously member of Chargin Mah Lazors: Member count - 0 Wow, you fly with the best, sir. On a serious note, never heard of solo players? In case you hadn't noticed, you can't war dec if you're in a noob corp. So far, to date, I've had wars with about 25 corps, and about 3 alliances. I consider that fun. You'll find out soon enough, as my war with your corp starts in 48 hrs :)
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:50:00 - [96] Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Marko Zhang Windy****s you claim to be a "main" yet you're in a one-man corp, which was founded by you on your first day in the game. You sound more like an "alt" to me. How do you respond, sir? So, erm, one man corps are alts? Let's have a look here... Marko Zhang: Member of Destructive Flatulence Member count: 1 Previously member of Chargin Mah Lazors: Member count - 0 Wow, you fly with the best, sir. On a serious note, never heard of solo players? In case you hadn't noticed, you can't war dec if you're in a noob corp. So far, to date, I've had wars with about 25 corps, and about 3 alliances. I consider that fun. You'll find out soon enough, as my war with your corp starts in 48 hrs :) Destructive Flatulence Corporation flies with honor. We will meet your pathetic one-man army on the field of battle and I will auction your putrid corpse on the forums for a starting bid of 1 isk. --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
Lord WarATron Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:51:00 - [97] Edited by: Lord WarATron on 30/11/2007 22:52:08 Originally by: Skool Daze BOB killed ASCN with the help of Developers and titan overpower. They couldn't do this today at this new game mechanics. Nevertheless since titans been nerfed BOB is losing space and will lose more and more. As someone who was in ASCN at the time, this was not the case. ASCN had the first titan, however CYVOK had said titan's were useless, and virtually never used his. What bob did do, and you can ask any ex-ASCN pvp pilots, was that they actually used their titans, motherships etc etc to full effect. Titans back then had only 50k armour if I remember correctly, so it was even risker to use one, and Shrike had many a time attempted to solo fleets without remote doomsday The fact that bob was using their titan and ASCN was not had drove moral down among the great unwashed, who could not understand why belt ratting t1 raven setups or a "fleet of dominix's" could not beat t2 fitted snipers. The reason why Bob bet ASCN were not developer related, it was in fact, related to tactics, skill and empire warfare. On the ASCN side, lack of any form of leadership, and lack of acceptence of those wanting to do more, meant that nobody would polish their boots until the Seargent Major told them to. Even on a basic level, something simple like aligning was considered some kind of cheat that bob was using to warp out when under fire, as some people who shall remain nameless but were in a position of power, could not understand this concept and ASCN forums/Alliance came up with intresting conclusions from Dev H4x, to teamspeak spies to cargo expander fitted battleships. Anyhow thats all in the past, and I am trying to remain neutral in both my posts in this thread, but it looks like nobody who reads COAD is really that intrested in the truth anymore. -- Billion Isk Mission
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:55:00 - [98] Originally by: Marko Zhang Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Marko Zhang Windy****s you claim to be a "main" yet you're in a one-man corp, which was founded by you on your first day in the game. You sound more like an "alt" to me. How do you respond, sir? So, erm, one man corps are alts? Let's have a look here... Marko Zhang: Member of Destructive Flatulence Member count: 1 Previously member of Chargin Mah Lazors: Member count - 0 Wow, you fly with the best, sir. On a serious note, never heard of solo players? In case you hadn't noticed, you can't war dec if you're in a noob corp. So far, to date, I've had wars with about 25 corps, and about 3 alliances. I consider that fun. You'll find out soon enough, as my war with your corp starts in 48 hrs :) Destructive Flatulence Corporation flies with honor. We will meet your pathetic one-man army on the field of battle and I will auction your putrid corpse on the forums for a starting bid of 1 isk. Yeah, but my dad could beat up your dad.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 22:59:00 - [99] My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Funny thing is, I never hesitated to team up with old enemies from the game Mankind, even after years of fighting and some very bitter experiences. I dont hesitate to respect current enemies, regardless of how bitter the fights are. After all, its all a pew pew space game, except when some filthy punk drags a RL tragedy in so he can mock it. Strangely, I have absolutely no hate for Red alliance, nor for Razor, nor for IAC, etc. Maybe its because they never pulled that crap. My contempt will disappear the same day I see a "real" mea culpa. And if someone else in game does the same thing tomorrow, I'll treat them the same, with pretty much the same options for a mea culpa. (I know some goons dream of the day they can try and claim some BoB member did something similar, but BoB's responce would be a tad different, and that makes all the difference for me.....) In fact, there is one incident from the game Mankind that is vaguely similar, and my response was similar. A player by the name of "Severed Wind" was threatening to commit real life suicide unless folks gave him game money, and doing so in such a way that some folks were wondering if he was serious. I was called to the scene by a friend. I pulled out the suicide prevention material from some of the NCO training material I have laying about and used it. I also dialed 911 and reported the incident at the same time I was in game chatting with him. I spent the next 3 weeks trying to get the game company (VIBES) to contact French law enforcement and report the issue. I made formal reports to my local law enforcement and tried to find hints to Severed Wind's RL identity in game, but never did. Severed Wind heard what I was doing and contacting me with threats to himself to make me stop (text logs of the threats were turned over to my local police the next day). As I told my local police, it was probably a stunt for free stuff by a kid, but all training says "treat it as a real", which the police agreed with. If real, the kid needed help. If fake, it would do him good to be "talked to" by his local police for pulling the stunt. Sadly, VIBES did not care, and went bankrupt not long afterwards. Thats the only other incident where someone dragged such RL stuff into a game, and my responce to it. Play nice while you butcher each other.
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:02:00 - [100] I have to say, I entirely agree. I feel no anger towards RA, or any of the other people who defend Goons. It's purely and simply Goons that make me feel sick. It's their contempt for real life tragedy, and their willingness to try to destroy this game for all players just to further their own in-game desires.

Shoukei Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:05:00 - [101] i liked james more. mittani should stick with just one alt for these posts here be signatures!
CrispyKritters Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:06:00 - [102] Originally by: General Windypops I have to say, I entirely agree. I feel no anger towards RA, or any of the other people who defend Goons. It's purely and simply Goons that make me feel sick. It's their contempt for real life tragedy, and their willingness to try to destroy this game for all players just to further their own in-game desires. Would you like some t2 bpos with that post?
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:06:00 - [103] Originally by: Sergeant Spot My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Funny thing is, I never hesitated to team up with old enemies from the game Mankind, even after years of fighting and some very bitter experiences. I dont hesitate to respect current enemies, regardless of how bitter the fights are. After all, its all a pew pew space game, except when some filthy punk drags a RL tragedy in so he can mock it. Strangely, I have absolutely no hate for Red alliance, nor for Razor, nor for IAC, etc. Maybe its because they never pulled that crap. My contempt will disappear the same day I see a "real" mea culpa. And if someone else in game does the same thing tomorrow, I'll treat them the same, with pretty much the same options for a mea culpa. (I know some goons dream of the day they can try and claim some BoB member did something similar, but BoB's responce would be a tad different, and that makes all the difference for me.....) In fact, there is one incident from the game Mankind that is vaguely similar, and my response was similar. A player by the name of "Severed Wind" was threatening to commit real life suicide unless folks gave him game money, and doing so in such a way that some folks were wondering if he was serious. I was called to the scene by a friend. I pulled out the suicide prevention material from some of the NCO training material I have laying about and used it. I also dialed 911 and reported the incident at the same time I was in game chatting with him. I spent the next 3 weeks trying to get the game company (VIBES) to contact French law enforcement and report the issue. I made formal reports to my local law enforcement and tried to find hints to Severed Wind's RL identity in game, but never did. Severed Wind heard what I was doing and contacting me with threats to himself to make me stop (text logs of the threats were turned over to my local police the next day). As I told my local police, it was probably a stunt for free stuff by a kid, but all training says "treat it as a real", which the police agreed with. If real, the kid needed help. If fake, it would do him good to be "talked to" by his local police for pulling the stunt. Sadly, VIBES did not care, and went bankrupt not long afterwards. Thats the only other incident where someone dragged such RL stuff into a game, and my responce to it. keep digging
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:09:00 - [104] Edited by: Berrik Radhok on 30/11/2007 23:09:08 Originally by: Sergeant Spot My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Funny thing is, I never hesitated to team up with old enemies from the game Mankind, even after years of fighting and some very bitter experiences. I dont hesitate to respect current enemies, regardless of how bitter the fights are. After all, its all a pew pew space game, except when some filthy punk drags a RL tragedy in so he can mock it. Strangely, I have absolutely no hate for Red alliance, nor for Razor, nor for IAC, etc. Maybe its because they never pulled that crap. My contempt will disappear the same day I see a "real" mea culpa. And if someone else in game does the same thing tomorrow, I'll treat them the same, with pretty much the same options for a mea culpa. (I know some goons dream of the day they can try and claim some BoB member did something similar, but BoB's responce would be a tad different, and that makes all the difference for me.....) In fact, there is one incident from the game Mankind that is vaguely similar, and my response was similar. A player by the name of "Severed Wind" was threatening to commit real life suicide unless folks gave him game money, and doing so in such a way that some folks were wondering if he was serious. I was called to the scene by a friend. I pulled out the suicide prevention material from some of the NCO training material I have laying about and used it. I also dialed 911 and reported the incident at the same time I was in game chatting with him. I spent the next 3 weeks trying to get the game company (VIBES) to contact French law enforcement and report the issue. I made formal reports to my local law enforcement and tried to find hints to Severed Wind's RL identity in game, but never did. Severed Wind heard what I was doing and contacting me with threats to himself to make me stop (text logs of the threats were turned over to my local police the next day). As I told my local police, it was probably a stunt for free stuff by a kid, but all training says "treat it as a real", which the police agreed with. If real, the kid needed help. If fake, it would do him good to be "talked to" by his local police for pulling the stunt. Sadly, VIBES did not care, and went bankrupt not long afterwards. Thats the only other incident where someone dragged such RL stuff into a game, and my responce to it. why don't you go headbutt a lorry about it
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:11:00 - [105] Originally by: General Windypops Yeah, but my dad could beat up your dad welp that rules out your being fire59's alt --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:12:00 - [106] Originally by: CrispyKritters Originally by: General Windypops I have to say, I entirely agree. I feel no anger towards RA, or any of the other people who defend Goons. It's purely and simply Goons that make me feel sick. It's their contempt for real life tragedy, and their willingness to try to destroy this game for all players just to further their own in-game desires. Would you like some t2 bpos with that post? First up, I have nothing whatsoever to do with BoB. However are you seriously comparing mocking the real life death of a player of this game by creating 'humorous' forum signatures to 'celebrate' it with the fact that one alliance got a minor tech 2 bpos in an internet spaceship game thanks to the foolish actions of one guy? If you seriously consider the two to be equal then it just goes to show that you SERIOUSLY need to chill out and remember that this is a game. I just wish some of the Goon members would have the balls to stand up to scum like you. Yeah, a minor T2 BPO is WAY worse than a real life death...
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:14:00 - [107] Originally by: General Windypops First up, I have nothing whatsoever to do with BoB. However are you seriously comparing mocking the real life death of a player of this game by creating 'humorous' forum signatures to 'celebrate' it with the fact that one alliance got a minor tech 2 bpos in an internet spaceship game thanks to the foolish actions of one guy? If you seriously consider the two to be equal then it just goes to show that you SERIOUSLY need to chill out and remember that this is a game. I just wish some of the Goon members would have the balls to stand up to scum like you. Yeah, a minor T2 BPO is WAY worse than a real life death... youre trying too hard, you should probably calm down
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:14:00 - [108] Originally by: Berrik Radhok why don't you go headbutt a lorry about it I can't believe you seriously posted that. I also hope that none of your loved ones ever suffer from an accident, and you remember posting a sick comment like that.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:17:00 - [109] woah man goons are offending you dont say
FOFOFOF CRAPSTORM	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:19:00 - [110] Originally by: Sergeant Spot My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Funny thing is, I never hesitated to team up with old enemies from the game Mankind, even after years of fighting and some very bitter experiences. I dont hesitate to respect current enemies, regardless of how bitter the fights are. After all, its all a pew pew space game, except when some filthy punk drags a RL tragedy in so he can mock it. Strangely, I have absolutely no hate for Red alliance, nor for Razor, nor for IAC, etc. Maybe its because they never pulled that crap. My contempt will disappear the same day I see a "real" mea culpa. And if someone else in game does the same thing tomorrow, I'll treat them the same, with pretty much the same options for a mea culpa. (I know some goons dream of the day they can try and claim some BoB member did something similar, but BoB's responce would be a tad different, and that makes all the difference for me.....) In fact, there is one incident from the game Mankind that is vaguely similar, and my response was similar. A player by the name of "Severed Wind" was threatening to commit real life suicide unless folks gave him game money, and doing so in such a way that some folks were wondering if he was serious. I was called to the scene by a friend. I pulled out the suicide prevention material from some of the NCO training material I have laying about and used it. I also dialed 911 and reported the incident at the same time I was in game chatting with him. I spent the next 3 weeks trying to get the game company (VIBES) to contact French law enforcement and report the issue. I made formal reports to my local law enforcement and tried to find hints to Severed Wind's RL identity in game, but never did. Severed Wind heard what I was doing and contacting me with threats to himself to make me stop (text logs of the threats were turned over to my local police the next day). As I told my local police, it was probably a stunt for free stuff by a kid, but all training says "treat it as a real", which the police agreed with. If real, the kid needed help. If fake, it would do him good to be "talked to" by his local police for pulling the stunt. Sadly, VIBES did not care, and went bankrupt not long afterwards. Thats the only other incident where someone dragged such RL stuff into a game, and my responce to it. Gimme 1 bil isk or i will suicide General Windypops

snerdly snerd LTD	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:20:00 - [111] srsly windypops, if you're getting trolled this hard on a troll acct, you should probably just give up. friendly advice from a fellow alt.
ElanMorin6 Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:22:00 - [112] Originally by: Lord WarATron Even on a basic level, something simple like aligning was considered some kind of cheat that bob was using to warp out when under fire, as some people who shall remain nameless but were in a position of power, could not understand this concept and ASCN forums/Alliance came up with intresting conclusions from Dev H4x, to teamspeak spies to cargo expander fitted battleships. Oh god, I remember that post. Compared to that expanded BS post even goon theorycrafting seems intelligent and well thought out. And if you'd read any of the theorycrafting posts on the goon forums lately (and who doesn't read the goon forums these days?) you'd know just how sad that is.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:22:00 - [113] gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:35:00 - [114] Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I don't care what rubbish you post on your own forums - go wild, and try as hard as you can to 'out shock' the previous Goon post. But these are public forums, in a game that many of us share. If your 'underlying motivation' for this war is purely to make yourself look as ridiculous and ignorant as possible in front of as many people as you can then you're welcome to that victory. The rest of us get our pleasure from achieving something real, and through our families, children and friends. If this is what you do for pleasure, then it says a lot more about you than it does about me.
Pesadel0 Vagabundos	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:40:00 - [115] You can all say what you want but IF BoB die it will, be with 70% of eve 0.0 against them ,if that isnt going with a bang i don¦t know what is.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:42:00 - [116] Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. As for your dream of being able to shout "hypocracy!!" (its pretty clear you are copying all this stuff for later quoting), I've no doubt that sooner or later some idiot will give you the excuse. But thats only because you confuse "principals" with "the appearance of principals". So yeah, I'll keep digging. My self image is not centered in your "something awful" site. Play nice while you butcher each other.
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:51:00 - [117] Originally by: snerdly srsly windypops, if you're getting trolled this hard on a troll acct, you should probably just give up. friendly advice from a fellow alt. Eh? Let me get your argument straight here. I post something about my contempt for Goons and get 3 goon/goon alt posts disagreeing with me. That's getting 'trolled so hard'? Get a sense of perspective, little chap.
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:54:00 - [118] * cough, cough * I do not want to interrupt this entertaining flame war, but I have the remote feeling we are drifting off the threads original content and intent just a tiny bit. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Pnuka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:54:00 - [119] I'm in awe. Nice write up Hardon.
snerdly snerd LTD	Posted - 2007.11.30 23:54:00 - [120] No, I'm pretty sure what's happening here is a bunch of laughing goons are egging you into making post after rage filled post, much to their amusement. I'd say it's you who needs perspective.

General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:00:00 - [121] Originally by: snerdly No, I'm pretty sure what's happening here is a bunch of laughing goons are egging you into making post after rage filled post, much to their amusement. I'd say it's you who needs perspective. And a bunch of other people marvelling at just how low you'll stop. You go, Goons. If you can't achieve fame in Eve through your achievements, then I guess you've got to switch to easy mode.
Darkstar BP Caldari eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:09:00 - [122] Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining.
Impretinent GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:12:00 - [123] Originally by: Sergeant Spot My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Funny thing is, I never hesitated to team up with old enemies from the game Mankind, even after years of fighting and some very bitter experiences. I dont hesitate to respect current enemies, regardless of how bitter the fights are. After all, its all a pew pew space game, except when some filthy punk drags a RL tragedy in so he can mock it. Strangely, I have absolutely no hate for Red alliance, nor for Razor, nor for IAC, etc. Maybe its because they never pulled that crap. My contempt will disappear the same day I see a "real" mea culpa. And if someone else in game does the same thing tomorrow, I'll treat them the same, with pretty much the same options for a mea culpa. (I know some goons dream of the day they can try and claim some BoB member did something similar, but BoB's responce would be a tad different, and that makes all the difference for me.....) In fact, there is one incident from the game Mankind that is vaguely similar, and my response was similar. A player by the name of "Severed Wind" was threatening to commit real life suicide unless folks gave him game money, and doing so in such a way that some folks were wondering if he was serious. I was called to the scene by a friend. I pulled out the suicide prevention material from some of the NCO training material I have laying about and used it. I also dialed 911 and reported the incident at the same time I was in game chatting with him. I spent the next 3 weeks trying to get the game company (VIBES) to contact French law enforcement and report the issue. I made formal reports to my local law enforcement and tried to find hints to Severed Wind's RL identity in game, but never did. Severed Wind heard what I was doing and contacting me with threats to himself to make me stop (text logs of the threats were turned over to my local police the next day). As I told my local police, it was probably a stunt for free stuff by a kid, but all training says "treat it as a real", which the police agreed with. If real, the kid needed help. If fake, it would do him good to be "talked to" by his local police for pulling the stunt. Sadly, VIBES did not care, and went bankrupt not long afterwards. Thats the only other incident where someone dragged such RL stuff into a game, and my responce to it. Do you remember when we blew up two BoB towers on 9/11 and then made a post about it in the form of a bunch of Islamist propaganda parodies. And then a goon replied to a Torshin post about losing friends on 9/11 with (from memory) "I lost friends on 9/11, they were flying the plane loooooll." Do you remember that, because I do. So I guess there's another RL tragedy we dragged into the game. XD
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:15:00 - [124] Originally by: Impretinent Originally by: Sergeant Spot My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Funny thing is, I never hesitated to team up with old enemies from the game Mankind, even after years of fighting and some very bitter experiences. I dont hesitate to respect current enemies, regardless of how bitter the fights are. After all, its all a pew pew space game, except when some filthy punk drags a RL tragedy in so he can mock it. Strangely, I have absolutely no hate for Red alliance, nor for Razor, nor for IAC, etc. Maybe its because they never pulled that crap. My contempt will disappear the same day I see a "real" mea culpa. And if someone else in game does the same thing tomorrow, I'll treat them the same, with pretty much the same options for a mea culpa. (I know some goons dream of the day they can try and claim some BoB member did something similar, but BoB's responce would be a tad different, and that makes all the difference for me.....) In fact, there is one incident from the game Mankind that is vaguely similar, and my response was similar. A player by the name of "Severed Wind" was threatening to commit real life suicide unless folks gave him game money, and doing so in such a way that some folks were wondering if he was serious. I was called to the scene by a friend. I pulled out the suicide prevention material from some of the NCO training material I have laying about and used it. I also dialed 911 and reported the incident at the same time I was in game chatting with him. I spent the next 3 weeks trying to get the game company (VIBES) to contact French law enforcement and report the issue. I made formal reports to my local law enforcement and tried to find hints to Severed Wind's RL identity in game, but never did. Severed Wind heard what I was doing and contacting me with threats to himself to make me stop (text logs of the threats were turned over to my local police the next day). As I told my local police, it was probably a stunt for free stuff by a kid, but all training says "treat it as a real", which the police agreed with. If real, the kid needed help. If fake, it would do him good to be "talked to" by his local police for pulling the stunt. Sadly, VIBES did not care, and went bankrupt not long afterwards. Thats the only other incident where someone dragged such RL stuff into a game, and my responce to it. Do you remember when we blew up two BoB towers on 9/11 and then made a post about it in the form of a bunch of Islamist propaganda parodies. And then a goon replied to a Torshin post about losing friends on 9/11 with (from memory) "I lost friends on 9/11, they were flying the plane loooooll." Do you remember that, because I do. So I guess there's another RL tragedy we dragged into the game. XD Well I guess if mummy and daddy don't let you out much you have to chase whatever excitement you can get from the confines of your bedroom. The rest of us have slightly broader horizons.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:24:00 - [125] Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining. Um, talking obout dancing on an enemy's corpse is "IN GAME" in Eve. Its why dead players leave a corpse. "In game" Learn what it means. Show me where any BoB ever threatened to dance on someone's RL corpse, and THEN (and only then) does your argument make sense. And you'd also have evidence of a RL crime, which you should report to CCP and depending on the details, maybe to your local RL police (no joke). Play nice while you butcher each other.
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:31:00 - [126] Edited by: General Windypops on 01/12/2007 00:34:12 Edited by: General Windypops on 01/12/2007 00:32:04 Originally by: Marko Zhang Originally by: General Windypops The rest of us have slightly broader horizons like railing against goons on interweb spaceship forums? You're right. As we now know from the NY Times article, there are more Devs in Goonswarm than in any other alliance, and since (and I'm sure it's just a coincidence...) the powers that be have been blackmailed into letting Goons post what they want, and disbanded their moderation team (how strange - just after Goons launched their blackmail Threadnought...) we should all just give up, eh?
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:41:00 - [127] windy****s, tell us more about your anti-goon philosophy. --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
General Windypops Gallente Skullduggery Inc	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:49:00 - [128] Originally by: Marko Zhang windy****s, tell us more about your anti-goon philosophy. That's the best flame you can come up with? Like I said originally, Goons have seriously run out of originality.
Volir Deep Space HVAC	Posted - 2007.12.01 00:55:00 - [129] Originally by: General Windypops Well I guess if mummy and daddy don't let you out much you have to chase whatever excitement you can get from the confines of your bedroom. The rest of us have slightly broader horizons. Don't drag lady Scarlet into this.
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:15:00 - [130] Well well Bobbits, what u deserve is what u get harr harr please keep on bringing it for a while, its entertaining, please

Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:34:00 - [131] Another interesting thread ruined. Good job Hardin, I enjoyed your write-up. Hopefully catch you on the 8th in the big smoke and we can have a drink and a chat. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
IlIlIlIlI IlIlIlIlI Hos B4 Bros	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:45:00 - [132] Originally by: General Windypops Originally by: Marko Zhang windy**s, tell us more about your anti-goon philosophy. That's the best flame you can come up with? Like I said originally, Goons have seriously run out of originality. Hey Windypops, 90% of flames are unoriginal anyway, I highly doubt there are very many insults that haven't been said at least once before... Its all in timing and presentation, neither of which goons feel are worth the effort, especially with a lame like yourself. Stupid, , ugly, your mom, your dad, trying to hard, too worked up, internet spaceships, fat, small ****, somebodies death, and ummm sex with animals... I think that pretty much covers any flame ever written on this board, not exactly a gigantic list of interesting topics.
torN Deception GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:46:00 - [133] Originally by: Volir Don't drag lady Scarlet into this. You'd need like a dozen tow trucks
Montasque GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 01:47:00 - [134] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining. Um, talking obout dancing on an enemy's corpse is "IN GAME" in Eve. Its why dead players leave a corpse. "In game" Learn what it means. Show me where any BoB ever threatened to dance on someone's RL corpse, and THEN (and only then) does your argument make sense. And you'd also have evidence of a RL crime, which you should report to CCP and depending on the details, maybe to your local RL police (no joke). Are you for real man? I'm not even kidding, I am so taken aback by your posting, I can feel the hate and insanity coming off my monitor like heat off of asphalt. If you are æfor realÆ seek mental health now before you hurt someone. If you are just troll'n, you are using a really intense ævoiceÆ for these posts, I like your style keep it up. As far as the op, good work, some factual errors but those have been cleared up in this thread.
snerdly snerd LTD	Posted - 2007.12.01 02:32:00 - [135] To be clear, windypops, I'm not a goon. I do, however, like goons. Mainly because they seem to **** off people like you.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 02:57:00 - [136] Originally by: Montasque Are you for real man? I'm not even kidding, I am so taken aback by your posting, I can feel the hate and insanity coming off my monitor like heat off of asphalt. If you are æfor realÆ seek mental health now before you hurt someone. If you are just troll'n, you are using a really intense ævoiceÆ for these posts, I like your style keep it up. As far as the op, good work, some factual errors but those have been cleared up in this thread. Actually, the OP covers the incident I reference. Sense no one has contested that part of his post, I guess that means you agree with my main points? I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? (Pretty sure you are going to tell me I'm the bad guy for refusing to let folks forget WHY BoB decided to "remove" the goons. Probably gonna tell me I should "let it rest", and at the same time say all of BoB is horrible because of T20....) Play nice while you butcher each other.
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:01:00 - [137] Edited by: Martin VanBuren on 01/12/2007 03:05:46 Edited by: Martin VanBuren on 01/12/2007 03:01:18 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Montasque Are you for real man? I'm not even kidding, I am so taken aback by your posting, I can feel the hate and insanity coming off my monitor like heat off of asphalt. If you are æfor realÆ seek mental health now before you hurt someone. If you are just troll'n, you are using a really intense ævoiceÆ for these posts, I like your style keep it up. As far as the op, good work, some factual errors but those have been cleared up in this thread. Actually, the OP covers the incident I reference. Sense no one has contested that part of his post, I guess that means you agree with my main points? I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? (Pretty sure you are going to tell me I'm the bad guy for refusing to let folks forget WHY BoB decided to "remove" the goons. Probably gonna tell me I should "let it rest", and at the same time say all of BoB is horrible because of T20....) Hey guys Im morally indignant lets ruin an otherwise decent thread. It's like you're a goon except instead of a ******** catchphrase you hurf blur over three paragraphs about how ethically superior you are.
JeanPaul Sartre 26th of July Movement	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:10:00 - [138] Originally by: Montasque ....like heat off of asphalt. WTF .. OFF OF... DOES NOT COMPUTE. -- Quote: If a victory is told in detail, one can no longer distinguish it from a defeat.
patteSatan Feudal Unintelligible Swedish Knights	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:35:00 - [139] Originally by: Gabriel Karade Just a minor point; IAC and LV had a NAP just prior to the time of cough issues cough between IAC and ISS. That NAP got broken after a er... certain 'incident' whilst an IAC fleet was enroute to help out Huzzah from an AAA siege... ("Gadzooks! these blues be shootin' us! Kill them!!111 ) I remember that... Hi Gabe!!!!! ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell. 404 - Sense of humour not found. <===hUssmann VETO. made that
patteSatan Feudal Unintelligible Swedish Knights	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:52:00 - [140] Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining. its true, ccp ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell. 404 - Sense of humour not found. <===hUssmann VETO. made that

The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 03:59:00 - [141] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. As for your dream of being able to shout "hypocracy!!" (its pretty clear you are copying all this stuff for later quoting), I've no doubt that sooner or later some idiot will give you the excuse. But thats only because you confuse "principals" with "the appearance of principals". So yeah, I'll keep digging. My self image is not centered in your "something awful" site. keep digging
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:01:00 - [142] most of the sergeant spots and windypops itt just want the precious moral high ground to chestbeat some and they are arguing desperately to seize it yet we never wanted that moral high ground anyway
Factor Benz GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:04:00 - [143] Edited by: Factor Benz on 01/12/2007 04:05:20 Edited by: Factor Benz on 01/12/2007 04:04:41 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining. Um, talking obout dancing on an enemy's corpse is "IN GAME" in Eve. Its why dead players leave a corpse. "In game" Learn what it means. Show me where any BoB ever threatened to dance on someone's RL corpse, and THEN (and only then) does your argument make sense. And you'd also have evidence of a RL crime, which you should report to CCP and depending on the details, maybe to your local RL police (no joke). Die plz so I can dance on your rl corpse. TIA. keep digging (no joke) word
Amerame Section XIII	Posted - 2007.12.01 04:18:00 - [144] Edited by: Amerame on 01/12/2007 04:18:51 Originally by: Sergeant Spot I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? You are, unfortunately, a whole lot less tolerant than any GS member. Your attitude of going ballistic and calling for Jihad over a poor joke can be compared to the ones of religious fanatics reactions over unfunny caricatures. I might not find every jokes gs members make funny, nor would I be making that kind of jokes but I will certainly not take seriously something that is not supposed to be taken seriously, especialy in a video game. It is unfortunate that you fail to aknowledge people with different backgrounds, coming from different communities can look at things and think differently than you do. Worse than that, you decided to take action in-game for a completely out of game reason. You decided to change the course of New Eden for real world reasons, more than anything this has destroyed the image of the "roleplaying BoB leadership". Do not come and whine when game players just want to get rid of you and forget the whole thing ever happened.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:04:00 - [145] remember that thread on the bob director forums where they all talked about how terrible spot was and how maybe they should restrain him, because he was such an embrassement on eveo? yeah, good times then blacklight was all 'i will stick up for spot even though he is a terrible poster over a goon any day' and hey check it, he's in the same hall of history as molle, dbp and digitalcommunist (ie: the reason we're killing bob)
Jadzia Blue Department of Truth Enhancement	Posted - 2007.12.01 06:54:00 - [146] Originally by: General Windypops I don't care what rubbish you post on your own forums - go wild, and try as hard as you can to 'out shock' the previous Goon post. But these are public forums, in a game that many of us share. If your 'underlying motivation' for this war is purely to make yourself look as ridiculous and ignorant as possible in front of as many people as you can then you're welcome to that victory. You win.
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 07:23:00 - [147] Originally by: Pesadel0 You can all say what you want but IF BoB die it will, be with 70% of eve 0.0 against them ,if that isnt going with a bang i don¦t know what is. And it begins...

ISD Santiago Cortes Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents	Posted - 2007.12.01 07:44:00 - [148] Cleaned Try not to sidetrack something that had been interesting up until the personal battles started. forum rules \| mailto:[email protected]

Jotan Veer HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded	Posted - 2007.12.01 07:47:00 - [149] Quote: BoB in conjunction with a number of alliances including ASCN (at that time EVE's largest alliance) vowed to remove Goons from 0.0. The assault was a huge success. Goons pilots died in massive numbers and they were effectively destroyed as space holding alliance. The BoB leadership declared themselves pleased with the outcome of the campaign and insisted that Goons would never be allowed to set foot in 0.0 again. Really? I could have sworn ASCN reset goons to neutral (they were blue) after the public crapstorm on EVE-O between BOB and the Goons in order to stay out of BOB's way. There were even diplomatic talks between the ASCN leadership and Goonfleet in which they asked the Goons to stay out of ASCN space "and all will be fine". Could be wrong though! HUN Corp. recruitment info (Hungarian players only)
Plutoinum German Cyberdome Corp Cult of War	Posted - 2007.12.01 08:08:00 - [150] Originally by: The Mittani RSF and LV intervened in the ISS/IAC conflict to have a 'proxy war', decided behind the scenes between the leaders of both blocs, during our 'pos nap' period. then we backstabbed them because LV was terrible and we're naughty Yes, I've heard of that one and it irritated me a bit that RSF and LV had a pos nap right after my former alliance -V- went down in Scalding Pass against RSF. So I think I'm quite happy that that one didn't last. There were a lot of LVs, who helped us, but also some, who didn't want to and something in me wanted that those that thought helping V is not their buisiness get their fair share of pos war against RSF, too, after we were down. ( Still much <3 to those LV, who came helping again and again ofc. )

Montasque GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 08:42:00 - [151] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Actually, the OP covers the incident I reference. Sense no one has contested that part of his post, I guess that means you agree with my main points? I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? (Pretty sure you are going to tell me I'm the bad guy for refusing to let folks forget WHY BoB decided to "remove" the goons. Probably gonna tell me I should "let it rest", and at the same time say all of BoB is horrible because of T20....) YouÆre not unstable because you donÆt laugh at tasteless humour. What makes you unstable is the fact that you are droning on like a fanatic. Step away from the keyboard and go outside, have a beer with some of your m8Æs. Life is too short to be so angry.
Desiderata Fabian GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 09:20:00 - [152] http://www.eve-search.com/index.dxd?thread=377429 Originally by: Sergeant Spot on the 14th of August 2006 Goons will exist in 6 months. Goons will operate here and there in 6 months. Goons will NOT be permitted to be a sigificant force in 6 months. If they start becoming significant, they will be crushed again when boB feels like it. Thus, BoB's objective will be met. Sergeant Spot broke his promise.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 09:41:00 - [153] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 30/11/2007 23:17:13 Originally by: Berrik Radhok why don't you go headbutt a lorry about it I can't believe you seriously posted that. I also hope that none of your loved ones ever suffer from an accident, and you remember posting a sick comment like that. And @ Mittani - do you seriously believe that posts like this are just 'amusing' and that people should 'calm down' about these kind of comments? You're some guy. Seriously. Wow. speak up boy I'm having a hard time hearing you past that hood ornament embedded in your skull

ISD Valorem Amarr ISD STAR	Posted - 2007.12.01 10:55:00 - [154] Thread cleaned again. Troll, flame and spam posts removed. Also note that conversations between alts trying to derail the thread have been deleted. Consequently all replies have also been removed. forum rules \| CAOD Rules \| [email protected] \| Our Website

Ramlir 0.0 Corp	Posted - 2007.12.01 11:37:00 - [155] Originally by: Sergeant Spot on the 14th of August 2006 Goons will exist in 6 months. Goons will operate here and there in 6 months. Goons will NOT be permitted to be a sigificant force in 6 months. If they start becoming significant, they will be crushed again when boB feels like it. Thus, BoB's objective will be met. This is it. The final nail in the Goon coffin. Fived.
FOFOFOF CRAPSTORM	Posted - 2007.12.01 11:41:00 - [156] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Propaganda You eat too much of your own propaganda... Keep bashing that point, it will take you places...
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 12:00:00 - [157] Originally by: Amerame Edited by: Amerame on 01/12/2007 04:18:51 Originally by: Sergeant Spot I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? You are, unfortunately, a whole lot less tolerant than any GS member. Your attitude of going ballistic and calling for Jihad over a poor joke can be compared to the ones of religious fanatics reactions over unfunny caricatures. I might not find every jokes gs members make funny, nor would I be making that kind of jokes but I will certainly not take seriously something that is not supposed to be taken seriously, especialy in a video game. It is unfortunate that you fail to aknowledge people with different backgrounds, coming from different communities can look at things and think differently than you do. Worse than that, you decided to take action in-game for a completely out of game reason. You decided to change the course of New Eden for real world reasons, more than anything this has destroyed the image of the "roleplaying BoB leadership". Do not come and whine when game players just want to get rid of you and forget the whole thing ever happened. I know you guys are allies but trying to justify mocking rl death is clutching rather desperately at some rather short straws. They took the mick , it was brought onto eve o, entire community was disgusted ( look up the thread if you doubt) and we went to war. Goons said sorry for a few seconds and that they were going to throw the guy out, and then backtracked and spammed the forums massively and took the mick out of it even more because it is 'funny', apparently. They do it in local still and i have the pleasure of there, ahem, humour in local mocking rl death and it's puzzling as to what is so funny about it tbh. Comparing it to those idiots who blow stuff up in rl over a cartton picture of a make believe deity (my opinion) is over the top, locking up someone for naming a teddybear is nuts, getting angry because someone constantly takes the mick out of rl death...... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2007.12.01 12:03:00 - [158] My compliments on an Excellent and succinct summary of the Events of the last 2 years. It's always hard to strike a balance between broad strokes and detail in history of this style, and I really like how you managed it. Having intimate knowledge in every event you mention, you've covered it all. A few minor inaccuracies due to the summary level at which it's written, but this could only be corrected by writing in-depth, which as I see it wasn't the intent. Bravo Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
Ramlir 0.0 Corp	Posted - 2007.12.01 12:13:00 - [159] Originally by: fire 59 I know you guys are allies but trying to justify mocking rl death is clutching rather desperately at some rather short straws. They took the mick , it was brought onto eve o, entire community was disgusted ( look up the thread if you doubt) and we went to war. Goons said sorry for a few seconds and that they were going to throw the guy out, and then backtracked and spammed the forums massively and took the mick out of it even more because it is 'funny', apparently. They do it in local still and i have the pleasure of there, ahem, humour in local mocking rl death and it's puzzling as to what is so funny about it tbh. Comparing it to those idiots who blow stuff up in rl over a cartton picture of a make believe deity (my opinion) is over the top, locking up someone for naming a teddybear is nuts, getting angry because someone constantly takes the mick out of rl death...... It's funny when it incites posts like these. You are so laughably slow, ask Dafuzz.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.01 12:14:00 - [160] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 01/12/2007 12:16:25 Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Amerame Edited by: Amerame on 01/12/2007 04:18:51 Originally by: Sergeant Spot I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? You are, unfortunately, a whole lot less tolerant than any GS member. Your attitude of going ballistic and calling for Jihad over a poor joke can be compared to the ones of religious fanatics reactions over unfunny caricatures. I might not find every jokes gs members make funny, nor would I be making that kind of jokes but I will certainly not take seriously something that is not supposed to be taken seriously, especialy in a video game. It is unfortunate that you fail to aknowledge people with different backgrounds, coming from different communities can look at things and think differently than you do. Worse than that, you decided to take action in-game for a completely out of game reason. You decided to change the course of New Eden for real world reasons, more than anything this has destroyed the image of the "roleplaying BoB leadership". Do not come and whine when game players just want to get rid of you and forget the whole thing ever happened. I know you guys are allies but trying to justify mocking rl death is clutching rather desperately at some rather short straws. They took the mick , it was brought onto eve o, entire community was disgusted ( look up the thread if you doubt) and we went to war. Goons said sorry for a few seconds and that they were going to throw the guy out, and then backtracked and spammed the forums massively and took the mick out of it even more because it is 'funny', apparently. They do it in local still and i have the pleasure of there, ahem, humour in local mocking rl death and it's puzzling as to what is so funny about it tbh. Comparing it to those idiots who blow stuff up in rl over a cartton picture of a make believe deity (my opinion) is over the top, locking up someone for naming a teddybear is nuts, getting angry because someone constantly takes the mick out of rl death...... Muhammad cartoons should be forbidden. And JC ones too, of course. 2isk

fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 12:20:00 - [161] Originally by: Ramlir Originally by: fire 59 I know you guys are allies but trying to justify mocking rl death is clutching rather desperately at some rather short straws. They took the mick , it was brought onto eve o, entire community was disgusted ( look up the thread if you doubt) and we went to war. Goons said sorry for a few seconds and that they were going to throw the guy out, and then backtracked and spammed the forums massively and took the mick out of it even more because it is 'funny', apparently. They do it in local still and i have the pleasure of there, ahem, humour in local mocking rl death and it's puzzling as to what is so funny about it tbh. Comparing it to those idiots who blow stuff up in rl over a cartton picture of a make believe deity (my opinion) is over the top, locking up someone for naming a teddybear is nuts, getting angry because someone constantly takes the mick out of rl death...... It's funny when it incites posts like these. You are so laughably slow, ask Dafuzz. I was going to do a long flame post pointing out how (insert some fotm insult here) you are but instead i'll just fill my troll reply quota by saying hi http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Scavok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:14:00 - [162] Edited by: Scavok on 01/12/2007 13:15:07 Originally by: fire 59 Originally by: Amerame Edited by: Amerame on 01/12/2007 04:18:51 Originally by: Sergeant Spot I must be such a horrible and mentally unstable person for refusing to EVER laugh off such things like you wonderfully stable goons do. You must be wonderfully entertained by all this. After all, you tell us all so often how you find these replys to be wonderfully funny. Serious question: How SHOULD I be responding to someone dragging such crap into the game? You are, unfortunately, a whole lot less tolerant than any GS member. Your attitude of going ballistic and calling for Jihad over a poor joke can be compared to the ones of religious fanatics reactions over unfunny caricatures. I might not find every jokes gs members make funny, nor would I be making that kind of jokes but I will certainly not take seriously something that is not supposed to be taken seriously, especialy in a video game. It is unfortunate that you fail to aknowledge people with different backgrounds, coming from different communities can look at things and think differently than you do. Worse than that, you decided to take action in-game for a completely out of game reason. You decided to change the course of New Eden for real world reasons, more than anything this has destroyed the image of the "roleplaying BoB leadership". Do not come and whine when game players just want to get rid of you and forget the whole thing ever happened. I know you guys are allies but trying to justify mocking rl death is clutching rather desperately at some rather short straws. They took the mick , it was brought onto eve o, entire community was disgusted ( look up the thread if you doubt) and we went to war. Goons said sorry for a few seconds and that they were going to throw the guy out, and then backtracked and spammed the forums massively and took the mick out of it even more because it is 'funny', apparently. They do it in local still and i have the pleasure of there, ahem, humour in local mocking rl death and it's puzzling as to what is so funny about it tbh. Comparing it to those idiots who blow stuff up in rl over a cartton picture of a make believe deity (my opinion) is over the top, locking up someone for naming a teddybear is nuts, getting angry because someone constantly takes the mick out of rl death...... It's usually not the original comment that's funny, it's the response. Internet spaceship moral warriors is a pretty funny concept if you ask me, and nearly all of eve hopped on this bandwagon. Getting the most powerful alliance in the game to camp empty NPC stations 23 hours a day for a month, buy any random **** you put on the market, and brag about shuttle kills on the forum is a pretty good too. Then there were the DBP and molle posts that only got more funny with time.
Nuyan Zahedi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:23:00 - [163] Thanks for the history lesson.
fire 59 Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:26:00 - [164] The area only became empty after the super hard near invincible internet hardmen who fear no loss, um, died and ran off. You had plenty of ships but chose to remain docked and most simply ran into empire, and they got war decced there as well for laughs. Although the internet means people can do whatever they want without repurcussions (upto a point, hello officer etc) , there are human beings behind the avatars who act and respond in human ways.Well, most anyway, goonswarm don't really fall into that category . I wonder if the ones who find it hilarious would be the first to laugh about it to a family member of someone who passed, or pointed and laughed about it to someone down the pub. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bdd74kLxgGo
Muro Deez GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:50:00 - [165] Edited by: Muro Deez on 01/12/2007 13:51:31 Edited by: Muro Deez on 01/12/2007 13:50:23 Originally by: fire 59 The area only became empty after the super hard near invincible internet hardmen who fear no loss, um, died and ran off. You had plenty of ships but chose to remain docked and most simply ran into empire, and they got war decced there as well for laughs. Although the internet means people can do whatever they want without repurcussions (upto a point, hello officer etc) , there are human beings behind the avatars who act and respond in human ways.Well, most anyway, goonswarm don't really fall into that category . I wonder if the ones who find it hilarious would be the first to laugh about it to a family member of someone who passed, or pointed and laughed about it to someone down the pub. I give you permission to make jokes when I die. Honestly, I'd rather people laugh about death than get all depressed about it, and I bet I'm not the only one. e; moral highground e;e; i just asked my sister if i could make jokes at her funeral and she was like yeah sure it's not like i'll be able to care kablammo
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.12.01 13:53:00 - [166] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 01/12/2007 13:53:49 Originally by: fire 59 The area only became empty after the super hard near invincible internet hardmen who fear no loss, um, died and ran off. You had plenty of ships but chose to remain docked and most simply ran into empire, and they got war decced there as well for laughs. Although the internet means people can do whatever they want without repurcussions (upto a point, hello officer etc) , there are human beings behind the avatars who act and respond in human ways.Well, most anyway, goonswarm don't really fall into that category . I wonder if the ones who find it hilarious would be the first to laugh about it to a family member of someone who passed, or pointed and laughed about it to someone down the pub. Bob was the first to smack anything they cross. It's a clumsy backfire. It's been two years now. Maybe there is some guys that don't know your friend who passed that might have sometimes joked about it. Well. Impossible. Not your ennemies. 2isk
enjoi Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 14:08:00 - [167] Really nice write up Hardin, thanks. Real men Structure tank.
Scavok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 14:12:00 - [168] Edited by: Scavok on 01/12/2007 14:14:11 Originally by: fire 59 The area only became empty after the super hard near invincible internet hardmen who fear no loss, um, died and ran off. You had plenty of ships but chose to remain docked and most simply ran into empire, and they got war decced there as well for laughs. Although the internet means people can do whatever they want without repurcussions (upto a point, hello officer etc) , there are human beings behind the avatars who act and respond in human ways.Well, most anyway, goonswarm don't really fall into that category . I wonder if the ones who find it hilarious would be the first to laugh about it to a family member of someone who passed, or pointed and laughed about it to someone down the pub. Most members had only minor assets left in S-U since we burned through everything while fighting for cloud ring, and when we pulled out of XZH BoB was already camping S-U so aside from the carebears who never left in the first place, there was never much time for anyone to rebuild any significant amount of assets there. Within a few days each squad in goonswarm relocated to a different area of syndicate or nearby lowsec and we were nearly completely undisturbed. When BoB declared victory and pulled out we had already moved back in within a day. We also wardecced every major alliance that didn't wardec us first, so it's not like BoB's made any difference.
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 15:26:00 - [169] Originally by: Sergeant Spot My own hatred of goons is based on one, and only one incident: They dragged a RL tragedy into the game, refused to face the issue beyond a few weak excuse attempts, and then proceeded to try and shift blame to the folks that called them on it for the crime of calling them on it. Actually goons "dragged" it onto their personal private forums, bob dragged it into the game.
Sergeant Spot Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 15:29:00 - [170] To all the Goons and Goon friends: It seems I am mentally unstable because of my fixation on the incident that enraged BoB against Goons in the first place. It seems that my refusal to let it go is a mark of an unbalanced mind. What about T20 fixations? Play nice while you butcher each other.

Hitman396 Caldari Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.01 15:38:00 - [171] Nice read, and considering it's from an outsider pretty accurate too :)
Ramlir 0.0 Corp	Posted - 2007.12.01 16:48:00 - [172] Originally by: Sergeant Spot To all the Goons and Goon friends: It seems I am mentally unstable because of my fixation on the incident that enraged BoB against Goons in the first place. It seems that my refusal to let it go is a mark of an unbalanced mind. What about T20 fixations? Look at this ownage right here. 'I'm a fgt? Hmm, maybe it is you who is a fgt?' smug grin, knowing nod, leans back, dons shades
Poolpy dev zero	Posted - 2007.12.01 17:39:00 - [173] Originally by: Sergeant Spot What about T20 fixations? Actually, you are the only one in this thread that mentioned t20 :V
Howling Jinn Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.	Posted - 2007.12.01 18:17:00 - [174] nice writeup to mr spot. dear god man..
Urrorur Eternum Guild Transportation Group	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:06:00 - [175] I don't think you 'get' Urrorur.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:12:00 - [176] Originally by: KIATolon Actually goons "dragged" it onto their personal private forums, bob dragged it into the game. This is pretty key right here.
TWD Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:42:00 - [177] Originally by: Vile rat Originally by: KIATolon Actually goons "dragged" it onto their personal private forums, bob dragged it into the game. This is pretty key right here. I see two groups of people on your side replying to this argument. The first group tries to justify it and the second tries to deny or downplay it. I believe that its important to have respect for human life. We did not want to see an internet culture that does not have these values 'contaminate' the community we value, in the game we love to play. That was all there was to it. Obviously now, that did not work out the way we wanted.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:45:00 - [178] Originally by: TWD I see two groups of people on your side replying to this argument. The first group tries to justify it and the second tries to deny or downplay it. I believe that its important to have respect for human life. We did not want to see an internet culture that does not have these values 'contaminate' the community we value, in the game we love to play. That was all there was to it. Obviously now, that did not work out the way we wanted. seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated please post more and get spot back to posting tia and see about getting galavet in on this, you gal and spot are on about the same level of incoherent moral outrage
TWD Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:51:00 - [179] Originally by: Mittani seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated please post more and get spot back to posting tia and see about getting galavet in on this, you gal and spot are on about the same level of incoherent moral outrage What is your obsession with the word "fail" by the way? Are you a person who is afraid of failing?
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:56:00 - [180] Originally by: The Mittani seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated The only thing that BoB appears to fail in this is, seeing where we have lost, failed, or have been publicly humiliated. Or do any of these even matter? We have constantly invited people to come kill us, gangbang us, invade us, throw fruit at us, and sling crap at us on the forums. We have people posting that invite that, you goon folks just beat each other to the punch. You are basically better organized at forums. Did you ever stop to think, that while it appears we have lost, failed, and been humiliated, that we have in fact won? -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..

Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 19:58:00 - [181] Edited by: Dafuzz on 01/12/2007 20:00:14 Originally by: TWD Originally by: Mittani seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated please post more and get spot back to posting tia and see about getting galavet in on this, you gal and spot are on about the same level of incoherent moral outrage What is your obsession with the word "fail" by the way? Are you a person who is afraid of failing? I don't think he "gets" BoB Edit: By the way, saw your sup fuzz too late Mittens, sup with you. Homemade bacon and shroom omelet for breakfast this morning rocked. With a Bran muffin -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:03:00 - [182] Originally by: Dafuzz Edited by: Dafuzz on 01/12/2007 20:00:14 Originally by: TWD Originally by: Mittani seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated please post more and get spot back to posting tia and see about getting galavet in on this, you gal and spot are on about the same level of incoherent moral outrage What is your obsession with the word "fail" by the way? Are you a person who is afraid of failing? I don't think he "gets" BoB Edit: By the way, saw your sup fuzz too late Mittens, sup with you. Homemade bacon and shroom omelet for breakfast this morning rocked. With a Bran muffin Dafuzz comes to save the day. Thanks dude, this thread started to have a dark gothic feel to it. I had no breakfast. EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:04:00 - [183] Edited by: The Mittani on 01/12/2007 20:04:21 Originally by: TWD Originally by: Mittani seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated please post more and get spot back to posting tia and see about getting galavet in on this, you gal and spot are on about the same level of incoherent moral outrage What is your obsession with the word "fail" by the way? Are you a person who is afraid of failing? well you're certainly not edit: dafuzz: reheated pasta ceprese from the other day and a buttload of lawyer coffee, pretty chill morning
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:11:00 - [184] Originally by: The Mittani a buttload of lawyer coffee what kind of whiskey you like to use? i prefer a snort of jameson in mine. --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:13:00 - [185] bailey's irish cream because im a metrosexual with chrome glasses, sometimes jack, but mostly i just make espresso-strength drip coffee
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:16:00 - [186] cool, cool --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:17:00 - [187] Originally by: Marko Zhang Originally by: The Mittani a buttload of lawyer coffee what kind of whiskey you like to use? i prefer a snort of jameson in mine. I use Jameson's as a critical component in my ICB's at the Fuzz plantation. I read the whole original topic, and liked it. It was a good read. I too could make many additions, and I would have focused more on the formation of BoB, rather than current events, as these are fresh in everyone's mind. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:24:00 - [188] Originally by: Dafuzz I use Jameson's as a critical component in my ICB's at the Fuzz plantation. sup fellow jameson-in-the-coffee buddy --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:30:00 - [189] Originally by: Marko Zhang Originally by: Dafuzz I use Jameson's as a critical component in my ICB's at the Fuzz plantation. sup fellow jameson-in-the-coffee buddy Sup, also take the Bailey's that Mittens has, grab some Guiness, y'all come to Florida, we party. TWD can come too, and take all our money playing cards. ICB = Irish Car Bomb And, I hate Mittani for having pasta in the morning. Srsly, beats my Omelet. Goons own me in game and on forums and for breakfast BTW, Hardin, you should convo SirMolle. I hear he may have something to do with the Emperor's seat, mayhap you could work a deal. Amarr Victor and all that. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:35:00 - [190] Edited by: Marko Zhang on 01/12/2007 20:35:38 Originally by: Dafuzz y'all come to Florida already there, brosef. already there. Originally by: Dafuzz ICB = Irish Car Bomb best drink ever --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2

Euxinus DAB RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:36:00 - [191] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: The Mittani seeing replies like this is awesome, it's like august 06 all over again but with a surprise twist where bob loses, fails, and is publicly humiliated The only thing that BoB appears to fail in this is, seeing where we have lost, failed, or have been publicly humiliated. Did you ever stop to think, that while it appears we have lost, failed, and been humiliated, that we have in fact won? Yes yes yes! This attitude! i was kinda missing the feeling. Thanks for reminding me what BoB is Dafuzz. Now i "get" BoB once again ______________________________________ Nice read and it seems all the wrong parts are corrected. Maybe we should do some threads like this where some objective guy posts a report and only involved parties diplos can comment under it to achive %99 accurate reports. Like this; objective narrator Alliance X then kicked alliance Y with 300 dreads popping 10 towers.. Alliance Y Diplo Enters It was 3 small mining towerz stfu! ------------------------------------- I am asking for too much i know hehe!
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.01 20:52:00 - [192] Originally by: Marko Zhang already there, brosef. already there. Bring it -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Victor Vision Central Intelligence Service	Posted - 2007.12.02 03:23:00 - [193] Here some interesting, never before seen historic footage of some Goon vs BoB battles: War footage EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood Divine Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 03:27:00 - [194] Originally by: Dafuzz y'all come to Florida Noooo. Keep the snowbirds away. People already suck at driving here, don't need to add more to the mess. Also: Nice read, Hardin. IOI - Earned In Blood
Monarch Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.02 04:26:00 - [195] Originally by: Idaeus Originally by: Dafuzz y'all come to Florida Noooo. Keep the snowbirds away. People already suck at driving here, don't need to add more to the mess. Also: Nice read, Hardin. QFT Road rage is the Miami's fav pastime :\
Pilk Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.12.02 05:12:00 - [196] Originally by: Hardin IAC with the assistance of the Axiom Empire (AXE) alliance and their neighbours the Curatores Veritatis Alliance (CVA) had successfully ended the attack and peace broke out temporarily. You may wish to make it clear the CVA was a next-door neighbor of IAC, not of AXE. Originally by: Hardin Slowly but surely they were being forced back to the point where even there own capital system was being sieged. Please fix the "there" there. Nice writeup. Not perfect--as no reasonable-length description of a multiyear war ever could be--but a thousand times better than those produced by the self-serving pundits on either side. --P Kosh: The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
Idaeus Gallente Earned In Blood Divine Retribution Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.02 05:15:00 - [197] Originally by: Monarch QFT Road rage is the Miami's fav pastime :\ Alas, I live in the Tampa Bay area, which is infested with seniors. So come this time of the year... I get senior snowbirds. GAH. I would have liked to add to this (as my own perspective is almost entirely northern based) but my corp and I (given the dubious title of 'lowsec pirate pussies' as we hammered a TRI gatecamp in Aunenen some time ago) had too narrow a field of view. We had fun blowing people up as they retreated out of the North trough "our" pipe, and bore witness to many of the "new North" alliances more concerned with hotdropping capitals on a 4 man battleship gang in lowsec instead of defending their territory in 0.0. IOI - Earned In Blood
Marko Zhang Destructive Flatulence	Posted - 2007.12.02 06:17:00 - [198] Originally by: Idaeus Alas, I live in the Tampa Bay area, which is infested with seniors. So come this time of the year... I get senior snowbirds. GAH. QFT. Combine the 90 year old ladies driving the Cadillacs with the steroid-crazed white supremacists driving Bigfoot sized pickup trucks at 400MPH and its a recipe for disaster. Somebody do something. --- [18:47:59] CCP Admiral Chamrajnagar > be safe.. enjoy killing some D2

ISD Santiago Cortes Caldari ISD Interstellar Correspondents	Posted - 2007.12.02 07:21:00 - [199] Cleaned Again. Not that it'll make much difference. At least attempt to stay on-topic. forum rules \| mailto:[email protected]

TheDevilsJury GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.02 12:38:00 - [200] That's a pretty good summary. You've kind of glossed over the back-and-forth conflict in the south since the fall of LV, got a few region names wrong (BoB never took any of Detorid, it was Omist and Tenerifis). The Fall of LV - The RSF is holding Omist, Tenerifis, Detorid and certain intrepid allies have made headway into BoB-held Feythabolis. End of March - BoB assault against C3-, a KOS station in Tenerifis. C3 fell, but was regained some weeks later. Early April - MC contract against the North - RSF stonewalled by BoB in Feyth and Querious End of April - BoB takes all of Omist and 9-9 in Tenerifis June - BoB is stonewalled in JV1V and XGH in Tenerifis. The farthest they pushed was shooting station services in 77S in Detorid. Quote: BoB now decided to take a hand and joined in the fight on the side of LV but it was too little too late and LV collapsed with the better elements being incorporated into BoB. Despite this the intervention of BoB and allies succeeded in slowing the RSF assault and indeed quickly began to retake former LV systems in Detorid. This front temporarily devolved into a bloody stalemate I would harldy have called it a stalemate as BoB rolled through Omist and Tenerifis quite quickly. Had they managed to contest Detorid and had they not lost their titan at this time, the state of this war would look dramatically different. July - Tenerifis and Omist recaptured, UNL enters the war in force. August to Present - slow capturing of the deep south by the RSF - Deep Catch falls to BoB, FIX, and MC The rest is pretty accurate apart from what other people have already pointed out.

General Tsao GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.02 21:15:00 - [201] Nice post. The only thing I found particularly lacking (probably because I was personally involved in it) was the BoB invasion of omist and other regions. This was an extremely solid attack by BoB forces that very nearly drove RSF to the brink. The subsequent destruction of Shrike's titan provided the RSF with a tremendous morale boost and invigorated much of our forces. After that engagement the outcome of the war began to go in RSF's favor.
KeratinBoy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.03 02:20:00 - [202] Nice write-up. It'd be good if various members of involved parties could, maybe, write up your views of the events covered and pass them along to Hardin, for a more detailed 2.0 version of this thread. Thumbs up all around. Now, TO THE QUOTEMOBILE!!! Originally by: fire 59 I know you guys are allies but trying to justify mocking rl death is clutching rather desperately at some rather short straws. They took the mick , it was brought onto eve o, entire community was disgusted ( look up the thread if you doubt) and we went to war. Goons said sorry for a few seconds and that they were going to throw the guy out, and then backtracked and spammed the forums massively and took the mick out of it even more because it is 'funny', apparently. They do it in local still and i have the pleasure of there, ahem, humour in local mocking rl death and it's puzzling as to what is so funny about it tbh. Comparing it to those idiots who blow stuff up in rl over a cartton picture of a make believe deity (my opinion) is over the top, locking up someone for naming a teddybear is nuts, getting angry because someone constantly takes the mick out of rl death...... A person and a person walk into a place. That's humour with the tragedy removed. While idiocy is endemic the world over, working yourself into a frenzy because people laugh at death of all flavours is truly incomprehensible to me. There is nothing in the world that people can't make fun of. There is nothing in the world that people won't make fun of. Personally, I think there is nothing in the world that people shouldn't make fun of. Complaining about it achieves nothing more than those people grabbing a stick to poke you with. Life can be sucky, deal with it, go live in a cave or kill yourself.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.03 02:57:00 - [203] Originally by: TheDevilsJury That's a pretty good summary. You've kind of glossed over the back-and-forth conflict in the south since the fall of LV, got a few region names wrong (BoB never took any of Detorid, it was Omist and Tenerifis). The Fall of LV - The RSF is holding Omist, Tenerifis, Detorid and certain intrepid allies have made headway into BoB-held Feythabolis. End of March - BoB assault against C3-, a KOS station in Tenerifis. C3 fell, but was regained some weeks later. Early April - MC contract against the North - RSF stonewalled by BoB in Feyth and Querious End of April - BoB takes all of Omist and 9-9 in Tenerifis June - BoB is stonewalled in JV1V and XGH in Tenerifis. The farthest they pushed was shooting station services in 77S in Detorid. Quote: BoB now decided to take a hand and joined in the fight on the side of LV but it was too little too late and LV collapsed with the better elements being incorporated into BoB. Despite this the intervention of BoB and allies succeeded in slowing the RSF assault and indeed quickly began to retake former LV systems in Detorid. This front temporarily devolved into a bloody stalemate I would harldy have called it a stalemate as BoB rolled through Omist and Tenerifis quite quickly. Had they managed to contest Detorid and had they not lost their titan at this time, the state of this war would look dramatically different. July - Tenerifis and Omist recaptured, UNL enters the war in force. August to Present - slow capturing of the deep south by the RSF - Deep Catch falls to BoB, FIX, and MC The rest is pretty accurate apart from what other people have already pointed out. With this change, it fits my (even more outside than Hardin's) read of the war quite well. Though I would suggest that the Great Northern War deserves a paragraph in the introduction of the piece. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
General Tsao GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.03 03:20:00 - [204] Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining. Um, talking obout dancing on an enemy's corpse is "IN GAME" in Eve. Its why dead players leave a corpse. "In game" Learn what it means. Show me where any BoB ever threatened to dance on someone's RL corpse, and THEN (and only then) does your argument make sense. And you'd also have evidence of a RL crime, which you should report to CCP and depending on the details, maybe to your local RL police (no joke). Interesting, why was there no outrage when people that mocked the death of the player joined your alliance?
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.03 07:17:00 - [205] good question lagadu is a very important member of finfleet and a proud bob member yet he's made some threads in market orders that by all rights should have spot hiring mercenaries on him in real life this is why it is so fun to troll bob about their faux moral outrage, because the hypocrisy is comedy its almost like when they complain about 'their alliance being painted in broad brushstrokes due to the actions of one person' that one is almost as good as the lagadu one
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:30:00 - [206] Originally by: Darkstar BP Edited by: Darkstar BP on 01/12/2007 00:09:42 Originally by: Sergeant Spot Originally by: The Mittani gotta say that the underlying motivation for a lot of our side of the war is a desire to extract posts like the one we just got out of people like sergeant spot and windypops some people fight for territory or isk or pride or honor, we're pretty much here to extract suffering and misery from bob and anyone on their side, to ruin their identity, ruin their fun, and all those other happy fun feelings good times, good times sips mojito I believe you. Its how low you sink to do achieve that which gives me problems. If you'd kept it IN GAME, I'd have only "in game" problems with you. Call it digging if you will. I call it principals. It's called metagaming; they are making involuntary love to your mind. Your team was once good at it, now gets outclassed big time. Please read back the comments the likes of DBP, Avon back in 2006. Maybe read back Molle's "I will dance on your dead corpse" post. BoB has been built on griefing, you get outgriefed now. Stop whining. I have no love for how BoB conducted politics in Eve, but quite frankly goons just annoy me to such a level on these forums that I wouldn't mind them being banned from the forums. Sure BoB was arrogant in the past, but I prefer arrogant over ****** and downright rude (ie. posting gore pron and actually having the mayority of your alliance like that you did that). Quite frankly the phrase never argue with a ** on the internet, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience is quite a decent description of Goonswarm forum behaviour. But if you call that metagaming then I guess you are part of the ****s. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Mark Galean Ooops Inc. Infinite Innovation	Posted - 2007.12.03 11:43:00 - [207] I find the post quite 'nicely written' - it's not too shabby for the newcomers of the game that wants a "quick review" of what has been going on. Ofcourse, there will always be "errors" in such a post, but it's a decent read for newcomers, that is what counts imho. A suggestion might be to have the same information on the Eve-Online wiki, and for those interested write/edit the snippets that are wrong/needs additional information (and without destroying the "outside view" perspective?)... I was quite content with reading it at least - informative with some "bugs".
Artean Minmatar North Star Networks Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.12.03 12:40:00 - [208] Very good write-up! There is history created in EVE and it is a good thing that there are historians documenting it. Place it on the Wiki for further fine tuning! ........ When ever in doubt; troll.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:14:00 - [209] Originally by: The Mittani good question lagadu is a very important member of finfleet and a proud bob member yet he's made some threads in market orders that by all rights should have spot hiring mercenaries on him in real life this is why it is so fun to troll bob about their faux moral outrage, because the hypocrisy is comedy its almost like when they complain about 'their alliance being painted in broad brushstrokes due to the actions of one person' that one is almost as good as the lagadu one Id like to add a comment in regards to this line of discussion (though I freely admit from this point that it serves no purpose, and that I enjoy such fruitless endevors) (Also this post is from a bob grunt at the time) I was part of Sgt Spots. corp during the beginning of the Goon vs Bob conflict in syndicate. The funny thing is that before any of that happened I can remember much discussion on how goons would affect the game. For all most of bob cared (again from a grunt perspective) it seemed like you guys would have been a strong allaince to ally with and would one day (pending more sp) become a great allaince. Then the "joke" happened. While I dont pretend to know anything about leadership, or their plans for your allaince, from a grunt perspective ALOT of us were **ed off about the incident. Had not Bob declared War on you, a crap load of the pvpers would have just done the same thing none officially. The hate and anger was very much real on the Bob and internal forums... that much is clear since you would have db dumps of those forums from that time. The "moral highground" as you so like to put it was very real to pretty much all bob members (that I had contact with of course) at that time. As for the present, I am sure many Bob still hang on to that hate and anger from that incident, even despite the fact that they know you only do things just to make them angry. I know I still remember incidents from when I was a little kid that **ed me off that I would love to get revenge for. I dont see how that makes anyone deranged as everyone thats honest with themselves would be willing to admit that they harbor some of those old feelings as well. In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) I dont think you could say the same thing about Bob of then, nor could you say it of now. The only people you could accuse of that would be Bob leadership, and some of the vets that frequent these forums. Your allaince has some weird hive mind thing going on... Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen.
Future Thing Ninja Warriors of the Round Table	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:23:00 - [210] Originally by: The Mittani good question lagadu is a very important member of finfleet and a proud bob member yet he's made some threads in market orders that by all rights should have spot hiring mercenaries on him in real life this is why it is so fun to troll bob about their faux moral outrage, because the hypocrisy is comedy its almost like when they complain about 'their alliance being painted in broad brushstrokes due to the actions of one person' that one is almost as good as the lagadu one Legadu is an important member of finfleet? When did this happen? (Read: He's barely member of finfl let alone an important one) But yeh his market orders discussion was pretty pathetic. As for the 'brushstrokes' everyone is guilty of that, but thats life :)

The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.03 19:55:00 - [211] Originally by: Riley Craven Originally by: The Mittani good question lagadu is a very important member of finfleet and a proud bob member yet he's made some threads in market orders that by all rights should have spot hiring mercenaries on him in real life this is why it is so fun to troll bob about their faux moral outrage, because the hypocrisy is comedy its almost like when they complain about 'their alliance being painted in broad brushstrokes due to the actions of one person' that one is almost as good as the lagadu one Id like to add a comment in regards to this line of discussion (though I freely admit from this point that it serves no purpose, and that I enjoy such fruitless endevors) (Also this post is from a bob grunt at the time) I was part of Sgt Spots. corp during the beginning of the Goon vs Bob conflict in syndicate. The funny thing is that before any of that happened I can remember much discussion on how goons would affect the game. For all most of bob cared (again from a grunt perspective) it seemed like you guys would have been a strong allaince to ally with and would one day (pending more sp) become a great allaince. Then the "joke" happened. While I dont pretend to know anything about leadership, or their plans for your allaince, from a grunt perspective ALOT of us were **ed off about the incident. Had not Bob declared War on you, a crap load of the pvpers would have just done the same thing none officially. The hate and anger was very much real on the Bob and internal forums... that much is clear since you would have db dumps of those forums from that time. The "moral highground" as you so like to put it was very real to pretty much all bob members (that I had contact with of course) at that time. As for the present, I am sure many Bob still hang on to that hate and anger from that incident, even despite the fact that they know you only do things just to make them angry. I know I still remember incidents from when I was a little kid that ed me off that I would love to get revenge for. I dont see how that makes anyone deranged as everyone thats honest with themselves would be willing to admit that they harbor some of those old feelings as well. In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) I dont think you could say the same thing about Bob of then, nor could you say it of now. The only people you could accuse of that would be Bob leadership, and some of the vets that frequent these forums. Your allaince has some weird hive mind thing going on... Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen. its pretty awesome to know that you really ** off people you can't stand, thanks for this imma lean back here and imagine all the angry bobbits aahhhh thats a good feeling sips mojito
Angelus Damelon Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:14:00 - [212] Originally by: Riley Craven In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) what
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:36:00 - [213] It doesn't matter what happens in the end, we have infected all of EVE, just look around the forums, we've already won. Now we just have to continue our campaign of brutal revenge. Hurray for revenge!
General Tsao GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 00:49:00 - [214] Originally by: Riley Craven I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them Thanks for this.
Marodex Gallente Illuminati Revitalization Society Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:00:00 - [215] Certainly a great read. To be honest I wouldn't have minded if it were 20 posts long. The length of it, if you could keep it this exciting over the whole lot of it, doesn't really matter as it shows how much politics and intrigues in Eve Online are.
Viktor Konstantine GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:30:00 - [216] "Stupid goonie children, grow up!!1" loses another region
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:37:00 - [217] Originally by: Riley Craven As for the present, I am sure many Bob still hang on to that hate and anger from that incident, even despite the fact that they know you only do things just to make them angry. They need to get over it. Having goons urinate in your cheerios first thing in the morning and taking a dump on your hamburger bun at lunch ain't a great way to live. This is why I don't eat cheerios I do the bran or eggs thing in the mornin and go with a nice chef salad for lunch. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Koala Bare eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:39:00 - [218] Originally by: Lord WarATron trauma The indoctrination is strong in you, my young, err, wannabee director.
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:41:00 - [219] Originally by: Riley Craven Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen. Riley, with all due respect, (of which I had some) you have already lost to the goons. You are actually saying you left 0.0 to live in empire, because of their posting? Puhleese. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..
Dafuzz Gallente Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:43:00 - [220] Originally by: The Mittani its pretty awesome to know that you really **** off people you can't stand, thanks for this imma lean back here and imagine all the angry bobbits aahhhh thats a good feeling sips mojito Do you feel me patting you on the head? Martinis > Mojitos Too much sugar. -- -If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, riddle them with bullets..

Koala Bare eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.04 01:47:00 - [221] Originally by: Shevar I have no love for how BoB conducted politics in Eve, but quite frankly goons just annoy me to such a level on these forums that I wouldn't mind them being banned from the forums. Sure BoB was arrogant in the past, but I prefer arrogant over ****** and downright rude (ie. posting gore pron and actually having the mayority of your alliance like that you did that). Quite frankly the phrase never argue with a ** on the internet, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience is quite a decent description of Goonswarm forum behaviour. But if you call that metagaming then I guess you are part of the **s. Dig deep enough. Nothing's changed, only the tag of the metagaming. BOB invented it, failed to perfect it. They tried to take over a game, and got stumped by their own methods. I don't like the ** that goes on here as much as the next guy. But I just can't see the difference, not even on a scale, of what BOB came up with, and now has backfiring. Goons, Bob, CA Part Deux, SA, everyone's done it, everybody will do it again, and the scale of the Goon focus is no bigger then the scale of the Bob focus at its time. As for Hardin, there is no outsider perspective. There is only the perspective of the last man or team standing. They write history, prerogative of the victors. It's something BOB attempted, but failed at, but in contrast to what many think, not because of bumping into their own limitations or someone else, but sheer simple entropy. The longer the war goes on, the deeper the trenches, but as Barbara Tuchmann already demonstrated it's not a war of attrition in such a case, nor of economy, simply one of control of the minds of the masses.
Apophis Omega Amarr STK Scientific Black-Out	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:07:00 - [222] Originally by: The Mittani the most cogent turning point in the war is something which you missed: when people look back on things to find the 'tipping point' after which things really went to hell for bob, it will be a self-inflicted wound: asking mpire to pay rent You mean to say bob asking M. Pire to pay rent was the final nail in the coffin? Funny I said that and bobs said I was wrong. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.12.04 02:18:00 - [223] Originally by: Apophis Omega Originally by: The Mittani the most cogent turning point in the war is something which you missed: when people look back on things to find the 'tipping point' after which things really went to hell for bob, it will be a self-inflicted wound: asking mpire to pay rent You mean to say bob asking M. Pire to pay rent was the final nail in the coffin? Funny I said that and bobs said I was wrong. they also say pendulums work in space so iuno
Pwnomus Maximus Caldari Rakasha Legion	Posted - 2007.12.04 05:57:00 - [224] Originally by: The Mittani when people look back on things to find the 'tipping point' after which things really went to hell for bob, it will be a self-inflicted wound: asking mpire to pay rent From a general perspective i think this is correct, but not entirely accurate. First rent demanding contact was made by Tholarim (DICE) to Tomcatt (STK-S). THAT tipped the scale. Had the demand been made of another M. Pire corp, negotiation would most likely have taken place, with the result being M.Pire remaining by BoB's side. STK have a very bad history with BoB and that out right disrespect from someone they'd risked losing a lot members to come help just lit the fuse. From then on standing with the GBC was never an option to STK, and that was made quite clear to the rest of M. Pire. I know Tomcatt from his days in low sec and then ASCN. BoB could not have made a more stupid demand to more wrong a person than Tom. I don't think the reaction would have been that strong even if fiery Helen had still been CEO of STK. From talks i've had with parties involved, STK led the way for M. Pire out of the GBC. This take charge no BS attitude unfortunately stepped on too many M. Corp leadership toes leading to a lack of communication between the two and the collapse of M. Pire. BoB demands rent from M. Pire via STK, STK flips the double bird and drags M. Pire out with them, the GBC starts to crumble. BoB is a very very long way from dead, let's make that very clear, but they've lost territory, they've lost pets (props to the pets!) and deserve to lose everything. BoB has no friends, only slaves, eventually you will all realize this, and the sooner you do, the better you will end up. Moved by will alone.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:46:00 - [225] Originally by: Dafuzz Originally by: Riley Craven Personally, I will never like the goons not because of that incident, but because of the insane amount of stupidity you guys continue to post. I guess the difference between myself and how other people choose to deal with you is that I just went to live in empire doing my own thing solo while watching events play out on the forums. Personally, I think if people just ignored you, the world would be a better place. Course considering this post from myself I dont think that will ever happen. Riley, with all due respect, (of which I had some) you have already lost to the goons. You are actually saying you left 0.0 to live in empire, because of their posting? Puhleese. Well, to be honest this isnt the whole truth. I left for empire with the hope of a bright future with another corp that ended with me getting off the failure train. I left because I got tired of being "middle management". What I said is correct though, because of that failure I have been living in empire doing my own thing solo, though that is about to change shortly. This of course had the nice side of affect of not having to really deal with goons anymore. So while my present situation is correct, I seem to implied the reason for it was reason different than what they actually are. To be honest I'd be surprised if anyone in Bob had any respect for me besides a select few that I knew well. In any case those days are behind me.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:54:00 - [226] Originally by: Angelus Damelon Originally by: Riley Craven In any case, from my standpoint its very easy to judge your allaince as a whole because of you pretty much all act the same, which is insanely deranged little children. I've seen maybe a couple goons that have actually plied some thought to their actions (Hydrosan being one of them) what To clarify, of what I have seen of the man (poster) he seems to actually think about things (most of the posts I have seen from him have been in the Game Dev forum) The primary difference being that he's not saying something is broken just because it **es him off and makes him loose battle, but because he actually offers sounds reasoning as to why it **es him off. Granted those posts are only a small subsection of his character I am sure, but from what I have seen he is one of the feew (that I could prob count on my hand) of the goons that I actually dont mind seeing on the forums. His choice of friends... well thats another matter entirely.
Riley Craven Caldari Sunshine Carebear Crew	Posted - 2007.12.04 18:59:00 - [227] Originally by: The Mittani its pretty awesome to know that you really **** off people you can't stand, thanks for this imma lean back here and imagine all the angry bobbits aahhhh thats a good feeling sips mojito You say that like you actually needed someone to validate that. I am sure you are quite capable of doing that on your own. Its not as if Bob has tried to hide the fact that they hate you, nor is it like you dont have db dumps of their forums... That being said... cheers
Mei Feh	Posted - 2007.12.04 19:41:00 - [228] Nice retrospective. It would be an interesting project for some history student to actually interview as many of the players are still in game on these events and prepare a treatment of events. The peer review would be brutal... .MF Midshipman Mei Feh - Logistics Division - Hadean Drive Yards What do you want to fly today?


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