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Urgent game changes required concerning the so called suicide ganking

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Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2007.12.04 14:55:00 - [91] Originally by: Xaen That's a contradiction. You exploded = he succeeded. He had another opinion. It's like invention: Twice a failure, three times success. Noone is happy about the two failures. On the long run of course suicide ganking must be quite profitable, considering what deal on a daily delivery volume of battleships we were talking about. Hm, I don't seem to be the only afk smoker in the game. Originally by: Xaen Looks fine to me. Let me guess, T1 hauler with minimal tanking modules fitted. Active shield tanking. I heard, the safest way when afk playing.
Commander Prishe Caldari The LoneStar Corp Edge Of Sanity	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:27:00 - [92] 0.0 should remain lawless, no rules, anything goes - thats perfectly fine. Gank those lone ships with your 10 man gangs and gate camp those shuttles as much as you like if thats where you get your kicks. 0.4 - 0.1 needs to change however with a more gradual progession of whats allowed and whats not. As for suicide ganking in any high sec thats fine lol I think its quite funny actualy. As long as the attackers lose there ships to concord its fair game.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:32:00 - [93] Quote: So first of all it MUST be possible to afk smoke at the window without risk while flying through high sec. Don't smoke? Or better yet. Carry around your stuff in something better than a 1 mil hauler. C'mon, there's heaps in game already to prevent what happened to you, you just fail to take advantage of it. Improve Market Competition!
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.12.04 15:37:00 - [94] Originally by: Kolmogorow Active shield tanking. I heard, the safest way when afk playing. You are so right. Support fixing the EVE UI \| Suggest Jita fixes If you'd suicide gank yourself for what you're hauling, don't.
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:48:00 - [95] Originally by: Malcanis http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=341 I really don't know why at first my post is quoted and then a link to this chapter about "Kamikaze attacks" ("This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.") follows. It is as if I tell you I want to eat beef next Sunday and you reply: "On Friday we eat fish." This chapter talks only about the current state of the art. And it doesn't prove that suicide ganking is NOT a hole in the game mechanics. From a developer and legal point of view a software does not need to do what it SHOULD do applying a few atoms of common sense but only what the documentation tells about the software. Or from another direction: If the software has a bug - and who could disagree that suicide ganking is not only a bug but a heavy design failure - you can either remove the bug or write down in the documentation that it is intended and only looking like a bug. It can only be a temporary state. Flying around in high sec, sitting in front of the screen, not smoking at the window, pleaaaaase..., an impossible and only transitional situation, you know it! OK, Trinity deployment wasn't postponed so I expect the implementation of the necessary changes will follow very soon after. So, dear high sec gankers: adapt in advance and quit your business before you tumble in a deep hole of a futile ingame-life and end as a shattered nervous wreck scrunching sandcastles in the marvellous world of Hello-Kitty Online.
Sister Libertina	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:58:00 - [96] This has been the most entertaining topic I can remember. Can I have everyones stuff?
Kaaii Caldari Kaaii-Net Research Labs	Posted - 2007.12.04 20:59:00 - [97] Edited by: Kaaii on 04/12/2007 21:02:20 Has anyone ever survived a gank attempt, using the ingame tools avialable? I'm not talking scouting, nor gank avoidance,or logging the freighter, but pure planning v the gank squad? Ie You trip the gankers up with commands, logs and implants? Ive never read of any account, so i ask. A lot of ha ha we ganked a freighter. So I'm wondering if really the only way to not loose a freighter is just to scout? Don't jump a gate with more than 5 BS on other side? Is that the vaunted tools spoken of here? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Malcanis High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:01:00 - [98] Originally by: Kolmogorow Originally by: Malcanis http://support.eve-online.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=341 I really don't know why at first my post is quoted and then a link to this chapter about "Kamikaze attacks" ("This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space.") follows. It is as if I tell you I want to eat beef next Sunday and you reply: "On Friday we eat fish." This chapter talks only about the current state of the art. And it doesn't prove that suicide ganking is NOT a hole in the game mechanics. From a developer and legal point of view a software does not need to do what it SHOULD do applying a few atoms of common sense but only what the documentation tells about the software. Or from another direction: If the software has a bug - and who could disagree that suicide ganking is not only a bug but a heavy design failure - you can either remove the bug or write down in the documentation that it is intended and only looking like a bug. It can only be a temporary state. Flying around in high sec, sitting in front of the screen, not smoking at the window, pleaaaaase..., an impossible and only transitional situation, you know it! OK, Trinity deployment wasn't postponed so I expect the implementation of the necessary changes will follow very soon after. So, dear high sec gankers: adapt in advance and quit your business before you tumble in a deep hole of a futile ingame-life and end as a shattered nervous wreck scrunching sandcastles in the marvellous world of Hello-Kitty Online. That link EXPLICITLY states that suicide ganking is allowed, expected and NOT considered an exploit. "This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space." CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Kirmok	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:05:00 - [99] EVE isn't for non pvpers...I don't like that, but thats just how it is. If you don't want to get ganked or pvp, or both...then don't play eve, cancel your account. Seriously, I don't like it either, but thats how it is. The guys mate was probably an alt of his, you only need 2 account minimum to suicide gank. Best advice is to load your haulers with defenses so if you toss plates and or extenders on it, and maybe even use a t2 hauler, or a freighter! You can almost survive long enough for concord to get there and rescue you. Then you can lolz at the suicide ganker and feel good about yourself! :)
Kirmok	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:14:00 - [100] Originally by: Hermosa Diosas Edited by: Hermosa Diosas on 04/12/2007 13:30:22 I agree that suicide ganking needs to be addressed, especially if done in groups? How not sure? CONCORD yes a i agree should hit harder and alot faster But as i ive said in another post, fit WCS lots of them, fit hardeners to limit the damage given so you can warp away. and most of all if your hauling lots of crap FIT A CLOAK!! So empire space is not 100% safe whoever thought it was then now realise it isnt. Quote: Kamikaze attacks Despite the lack of absolute safety, empire space is still relatively safe. The biggest threat to the average player in Empire space is the risk of ôkamikazeö attacks when carrying a cargo of noteworthy value. Just like on modern day earth, the risk of attack rises with the amount of money sticking out of your pockets. If attacking you becomes a lucrative enough option, the best of neighbourhoods may become unsafe for you to walk around in. Some players are willing to lose ships and their good standing with Concord for the hope of quick profit from a juicy loot drop. The ôkamikazeö attackers usually work in pairs or groups. They scan the cargo holds of bypassing pilots flying easily destructable ships until they see something worthy of a ship loss. They then blow up the ship and and while Concord do what they do best, a second character picks up the loot from the shipÆs wreck. This is not seen as an exploit of the intended game mechanics and there is no compensation or reimbursement to be had for losses caused by attacks in secure space. Yeah...but in real life, people can't scan your wallet from across the room and see how much cash you have. They also get tossed in jail for weeks or months, or years depending on the crime. Don't compare eve to real life, if you want that, then all the suicide pirates characters should be put in jail for a month after suicide ganking. Just like real life! That keeps concord providing consequences, not preventing the crimes! Right?!
brinelan Caldari Victory Not Vengeance Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:21:00 - [101] Edited by: brinelan on 04/12/2007 21:22:04 I don't see the problem. Nothing is safe.. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. But seriously, the tools (ships and mods) to combat this are in game and freely availiable to everyone. Use the right tool for the job. Hauling valuable cargo requires a ship that will protect it. There are many threads on the topic, and in them are suggestions of out-of-the-box thinking and setups for even combat ships to use for transporting high value cargo. Check out eve-search.com to find them. (To use a RL analogy) you wouldn't transport large sums of cash in a small car, you use a vehicle more suited to securing it. -------------------------- Some days you're the bug, some days you're the windshield
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:30:00 - [102] Originally by: brinelan I don't see the problem. Nothing is safe.. You see the problem.
Sorted Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:35:00 - [103] Originally by: Kolmogorow Originally by: brinelan I don't see the problem. Nothing is safe.. You see the problem. Your the problem? I'll ilberate "WHAAA WHHAAAAA WHAAAAA" NEXT!
Kyusoath Orillian Northern Intelligence Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:39:00 - [104] Quote: INACCEPTABLE LOL SET SAIL FOR FAIL.
JamnOne Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:44:00 - [105] Originally by: Adamas Skysail Over a day old and 3 pages later and people still don't get it... Glorious! Yeah - now I don't feel so stoopid ________________________ Originally by: CCP Prism X Hah! Vengeance is sweet!
NenMaster	Posted - 2007.12.04 21:48:00 - [106] Originally by: Tarminic FAIL There is nothing wrong with suicide ganking, carrying around 400 million ISK in a 1 million ISK hauler is absolutely idiotic. hahahahahahaha thats the funniest thing i have seen today, i read a rant about some fool, then i see fail, i like it. thanks! still laughing as i type
Arathon Theimies Mobile Alcohol Processing Units United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:26:00 - [107] Hello Kitty online is that way. (I heard the pvp is brutal) Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Bigeasy Caldari Shadow Of The Light	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:32:00 - [108] I forget who's sig it is, but it sums up my thoughts nicely. Concord provides consequences, not protection. If you live by that mantra, and train for t2 haulers, you will go far. If not, i hear this wow game is awfully popular. Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula
slag Taramen	Posted - 2007.12.04 22:57:00 - [109] Originally by: Kolmogorow Originally by: Kessiaan There was a post a few days back that proposed that cargo / ship scanning someone not in your gang or corp would flag you for kill rights for 15 minutes (like stealing a can or wreck does now). I have even kill rights over one month against the pirate. But I won't make use of them I think. He seems to be a friendly guy, we almost had a deal selling him a new battleship but his sec status dropped and he can't enter my manufacturing system anymore after attacking me. CONCORD should allow that after a personal invitation. So you want to waive away one of the few clamps the game has to attempt to restrict the behavior you find so unconscionable? That pirate murdered my wife, but I should be able to invite him out of prison to come over for cupcakes if I want.
Rufus MacMaranth Shadow Front Lost Children of Eve	Posted - 2007.12.04 23:11:00 - [110] Originally by: Kolmogorow Yesterday I was shot .... <stuff> .... As far as both options allow me to afk smoke at the window it doesn't matter for me which one is choosen.... <more stuff> Excellent post. I have to agree that there should be a mechanism for popping out for a smoke, pouring your next drinkie, etc while still flying through space and not dying. Maybe an 'away for a smoke, or a drink' icon can be applied that lasts for 5 minutes and renders you invulnerable and can be used once every 30mins or so. Apologies to chain smokers or drinkers, but more than once in 30 mins is too exploitable. Cheers, Ruf.
Karrade Krise	Posted - 2007.12.04 23:17:00 - [111] Originally by: Kolmogorow (pirates could still hunt in the middle between two gates waiting for ships with low capacitor capacity coming out of warp directly in front of them - with a little luck), Sure......that makes perfect sense. Since a ship can only see ships warping into their grid for about 400 km....why not make a huge chain gang of ships, one every 400 km, from one gate to another...Because obviously you're not going to be able to probe them within 30 seconds before they warp away... Sig locked, I will not make fun of the forum mods
Lt Angus Caldari the united	Posted - 2007.12.05 00:31:00 - [112] Should make a list of everyone that fell for this Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Max Nero	Posted - 2007.12.05 00:55:00 - [113] Originally by: Lt Angus Should make a list of everyone that fell for this Shhhhh... Don't ruin it...
Dubious Drewski	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:08:00 - [114] Originally by: Kolmogorow Yesterday I was shot down approaching a gate with a hauler in an empire high-sec system while I was afk smoking at the window. The hauler wasn't worth anything but the cargohold contained stuff worth around 300-400 Mil ISK. He knows very well how this sounds. C'mon guys, the OP obviously is just yanking our chains here. Originally by: Slayton Ford a Drake is normally primaried last And that's why I love that homely boat!
Jormungand Altruis Amarr	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:33:00 - [115] Originally by: Crumplecorn Yes, ironic. That goes well with the /thread sig...do you control which sig shows up with which post?
Rameus Luxmaar Immortalis Inc.	Posted - 2007.12.05 01:41:00 - [116] Edited by: Rameus Luxmaar on 05/12/2007 01:42:16 For the love of all thats holy, ROFL!!! edit: removed about 20 rofl's IMMORTALIS INC. is recruiting new members!
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:12:00 - [117] Originally by: Rufus MacMaranth ...Maybe an 'away for a smoke, or a drink' icon can be applied that lasts for 5 minutes and renders you invulnerable and can be used once every 30mins or so... This is a really constructive post and a great proposal! I have updated my opening post and included the INVULNERABILITY BUTTON as Option 3 (while I removed the time restriction which seems to be only the half of the way to the optimal solution).
Reoohki	Posted - 2007.12.06 16:22:00 - [118] Im want to lvl afk cancer to 5
Kolmogorow Freedom Resources	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:48:00 - [119] Originally by: Karrade Krise Originally by: Kolmogorow (pirates could still hunt in the middle between two gates waiting for ships with low capacitor capacity coming out of warp directly in front of them - with a little luck), Sure......that makes perfect sense. Since a ship can only see ships warping into their grid for about 400 km....why not make a huge chain gang of ships, one every 400 km, from one gate to another...Because obviously you're not going to be able to probe them within 30 seconds before they warp away... Well, suicide ganking is a lottery anyway. I only want to move this lottery away from the gates to somewhere else in space. It might reduce the chance of winning a little bit but ... we have to sacrifice something for the serious improvements I proposed.
Chaplain Veritas Amarr The Aduro Protocol The Fifth Race	Posted - 2007.12.07 16:58:00 - [120] can someone please tell me this is a joke. even if it's not. someone just say it. i truly think it is simply by virtue of his suggestions, ie the uber godbomb from CONCORD. he's either 11 or he's joking. ____________________________ the eyes are the groin of the face - dwight shrute

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