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Ghoest 244	Posted - 2012.02.04 17:51:00 - [1] - Quote Everyone loves to talk about how EVE drives away noobs because its too hard core. Thats not why most people leave after they try it. The main reason is one that no one will admit. EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. EVE has many great things. The intensity of risking your ship, the economy, the vast scale, the complexity, the politics and resources, and the wars. All awesome stuff. But the actual game play sucks. 1 You fight by clicking on targets then turning on and off you modules. 2 90% of combat is related to attacking people as they come through gates. Most people who try EVE realize the details of the combat and leave because its lame - not because its so hardcore. Sitting by a gate(or more likey for a noob, coming through the gate), followed a 30 second battle that is usually just a short pre-planed cycle of modules - the actual game play is boring. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Honnete Du Decimer 27	Posted - 2012.02.04 17:56:00 - [2] - Quote Ghoest wrote: 2) 90 percent of combat is related to attacking people as they come through gates. ... is boring. This but more advance. I am talk many newbie and try help. Rush Tier 3, rush battleship, buy expensive thing and more - then lose and cry. They think EVE is "gear" grind only. They have other frustrate. I am happy for say - Darwin works with EVE. PMS
baltec1 539	Posted - 2012.02.04 17:56:00 - [3] - Quote Your way of pvp is the best way to get yourself killed and 90% of bitching about eve is about it being too complaex and the fact you can lose stuff. I disagree with everything you just put down.
Steve Celeste Wolfsbrigade 17	Posted - 2012.02.04 17:58:00 - [4] - Quote It's not the game's fault that you get bored with gatecamping. Maybe you should grow some balls and actually move around for a change.
Solstice Project I'm So Meta Even This Acronym 1335	Posted - 2012.02.04 17:58:00 - [5] - Quote I was just in a (edit: small) fleet with some guys and ... ... i can't confirm what you're saying. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet 1780	Posted - 2012.02.04 18:25:00 - [6] - Quote The thing is that's not what people who leave/play other MMOs complain about when they talk about EVE. I'm not saying CCP couldn't improve things on those fronts, but they aren't the major obstacles. You're also intentionally misrepresenting the gameplay to make your point. Most MMOs are about targeting someone and pushing a button to fire off your ability or macro. In some cases they have autoface for ranged classes without the EVE mechanics, so it literally can be choose target and push button to play that class. The thing is that view isn't the entire reality of how things work in EVE or in other games. If you only do that, you'll end up dead in almost every engagement and it only highlights your lack of skill as a player. The thing you're really complaining about is that once you've chosen your ship and fit, you have limited options available in the actual combat. You know beforehand how you must fly against various targets and when you can't win. Outside overheating your modules there is little you can do to change how the fight will go assuming both players know what they are doing. I think it's reasonable to ask additonal mechanics to be implemented to spice up the combat and bring new options to the fight and the proper use of them can influence how the fight will go. The gate issue, ignoring the hyperbole again, is somewhat pointing out the obvious fact, that most of the fighting happens around choke points. I do think the game would be better by making gates harder areas to camp and creating additional paths between areas. So I don't think fighting around gates is an issue, but the tunnel nature of the gate system in some areas is an issue. When you have the choice of going through the obvious permacamped gate or take the side path that goes around large parts of the EVE universe, I think it's safe to say things could be designed in a way that is more friendly to gate travel. So while I think you've got legitimate complaints buried under your hyperbole, they aren't significant things keeping players away. Something to improve upon sure, but there isn't going to be a rush of players to EVE, if CCP announced new active combat abilities or a new travel system. Considering the activities of most new players actually do, revamping mining and making missioning more interesting and challenging would propably be better at retaining players.
Alpheias Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 445	Posted - 2012.02.04 18:28:00 - [7] - Quote Perhaps Ghoest want a game in which his hand is held, being guided around in a theme park, stopping by all the fish ponds where he can hope to catches the biggest candy bag? Plenty of them out there. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
Valei Khurelem 257	Posted - 2012.02.04 18:39:00 - [8] - Quote Steve Celeste wrote: It's not the game's fault that you get bored with gatecamping. Maybe you should grow some balls and actually move around for a change. Make it so Smartbombs can be easily produced or you have something that can break warp disruption easily and you'll fix that issue with no problem, the only people who complain about these ideas are those who want to keep things the same. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
KrakizBad Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension 332	Posted - 2012.02.04 18:41:00 - [9] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Steve Celeste wrote: It's not the game's fault that you get bored with gatecamping. Maybe you should grow some balls and actually move around for a change. Make it so Smartbombs can be easily produced or you have something that can break warp disruption easily and you'll fix that issue with no problem, the only people who complain about these ideas are those who want to keep things the same. Smartbombs are trivially easily produced so . And good luck holding down nullified t3's. http://i.imgur.com/cOmMP.gif
Bumblefck Kerensky Initiatives 2778	Posted - 2012.02.04 18:58:00 - [10] - Quote If you want people to take you and what you say seriously, at least have the common decency to spell 'emperor' correctly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki

Ghoest 247	Posted - 2012.02.04 20:07:00 - [11] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Perhaps Ghoest want a game in which his hand is held, being guided around in a theme park, stopping by all the fish ponds where he can hope to catches the biggest candy bag? Plenty of them out there. Are you unable to read or do you just choose not to? Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Alpheias Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 445	Posted - 2012.02.04 20:40:00 - [12] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Alpheias wrote: Perhaps Ghoest want a game in which his hand is held, being guided around in a theme park, stopping by all the fish ponds where he can hope to catches the biggest candy bag? Plenty of them out there. Are you unable to read or do you just choose not to? Oh? Was I supposed to read anything else than the asinine spluttering of words from someone like you that can't even make a coherent argument? Quoted for comedy: Ghoest wrote: 1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind. 2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage. In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance. Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO. Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO. Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO. All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance. THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances. The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
Lady Spank Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 1439	Posted - 2012.02.04 20:45:00 - [13] - Quote Thats what eve is like if you are a scrub. Put more effort in and you will be rewarded. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Ghoest 247	Posted - 2012.02.04 22:07:00 - [14] - Quote Alpheias wrote: Ghoest wrote: Alpheias wrote: Perhaps Ghoest want a game in which his hand is held, being guided around in a theme park, stopping by all the fish ponds where he can hope to catches the biggest candy bag? Plenty of them out there. Are you unable to read or do you just choose not to? Oh? Was I supposed to read anything else than the asinine spluttering of words from someone like you that can't even make a coherent argument? Quoted for comedy: Ghoest wrote: 1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind. 2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage. In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance. Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO. Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO. Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO. All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance. THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances. The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare. Are simply intent on proving that you didnt or couldnt read the post you responded too? Yes. Yes you are. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Ghoest 247	Posted - 2012.02.04 22:08:00 - [15] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Thats what eve is like if you are a scrub. Put more effort in and you will be rewarded. Umm what does my post have to do with the effort I put in? My post is about people trying the game then leaving quickly. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Alpheias Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 445	Posted - 2012.02.04 22:11:00 - [16] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Alpheias wrote: Ghoest wrote: Alpheias wrote: Perhaps Ghoest want a game in which his hand is held, being guided around in a theme park, stopping by all the fish ponds where he can hope to catches the biggest candy bag? Plenty of them out there. Are you unable to read or do you just choose not to? Oh? Was I supposed to read anything else than the asinine spluttering of words from someone like you that can't even make a coherent argument? Quoted for comedy: Ghoest wrote: 1 As with all elections - the electorate votes with their own interests in mind. 2 From a players perspective their is no logical difference between interests with with respect to how the game works and interests with with respect to inter-player advantage. In a large multi-server game the tendency towards advocating with an eye towards selfish advantage would be neutralized largely and input common to all servers would be recognized as legitimate. Where as in EVE nearly all players on the council have a vested interest with in every issue in a manner particular to EVEs in hgame political balance. Did it make any sense for CCP to solicit CSM input on changes to the Drone regions - NO. Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on re-balancing moon goo - NO. Does it make any sense to solicit CSM input on changes to super caps - NO. All these issues(which do need to be addressed by CCP ) have large ramifications on the in game political balance. THe CSM is basically a tool for in game polotical units to lobby CCP on issues that will help or hurt their alliances. The CSM should not exist in a game like EVE. Its just another meta level of alliance warfare. Are simply intent on proving that you didnt or couldnt read the post you responded too? Yes. Yes you are. Again, you struggle with the coherency. Perhaps you should read before you press 'post'? I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
The Apostle The Black Knights of Destiny 27	Posted - 2012.02.04 22:46:00 - [17] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Most people who try EVE realize the details of the combat and leave because its lame - not because its so hardcore. Sitting by a gate(or more likey for a noob, coming through the gate), followed a 30 second battle that is usually just a short pre-planed cycle of modules - the actual game play is boring. I've likened Eve fleet combat to teaching a class of oldies how to use the internets. Teacher> Click your mouse on the little square while holding the Ctrl-key. Teacher> Now take your cursor to the bottom of the screen and click the little circle, that's it, the one with the picture on it. Teacher> Very good. Now click another little square and repeat the process. Student> That little square dissappeared - where did it go? Teacher> So click a different square. The one flashing. Student> I don't understand Teacher> Click the ***** SQUARE YOU *** MORON STUPID DUMB ! Nullsec democracy is an oxymoron. Bloc voting for-áalliance candidates is Democracy for Morons 101. Let them perish in their self-interest. Bring back Eve. OUR Eve.**
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 305	Posted - 2012.02.04 22:55:00 - [18] - Quote It's not that...it's just even after you are SKILLED UP, people invade Missions...pop you when trying to do Industry so you can build ships...and just "CHILDREN" (even though they are all over 35 years old) want to pWN SOMEthing...I'm not sure what.... It all becomes pointless unless you cave into yourself and let the chaos blow over...something new introductory players are NOT even going to give a second chance. THIS GAME KILLS ITSELF. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 305	Posted - 2012.02.04 22:56:00 - [19] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Thats what eve is like if you are a scrub. Put more effort in and you will be rewarded. Very true...but then an a$$ Noob 2 weeks old starts stealing your mission by invading it and F--ing it up in HUGE ways. It's sad. Had to spend an hour of my LIFE and Game Time fitting a new Gank-boat to pop that a$$ next time I see him. The TWERP. Waste of time and not really worth it. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"
Krixtal Icefluxor Bison - Ammatar Thunder Thundering Herd 305	Posted - 2012.02.04 23:02:00 - [20] - Quote Ghoest wrote: EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. BUT...the mechanic behind it is BRILLIANT. I will stand behind that despite all. OMG He Spent His Free-áAURUM ! God is simply-áthe very extraordinary power of the Universe to organize Itself as percieved. -á-á- Lee Smolin "Three Roads to Quantum Gravity"

Ai Shun 246	Posted - 2012.02.04 23:17:00 - [21] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: THIS GAME KILLS ITSELF. Except for those that embrace the concept. Remember, this is a boutique MMO. It is not meant to be mainstream and it will never aspire to be that. This game has a specific focus and will attract a specific type of gamer. The faster a player trying the game out learns what EVE is like, the better for them and for the EVE community as a whole.
Corina Jarr Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built 563	Posted - 2012.02.05 01:16:00 - [22] - Quote OP... 1) almost every game that isn't an FPS is the same way if you break it down to its simplest form. 2) that is the nature of people... though for the record I've only once been attacked on gates and many times everywhere else. So for me, only about 2% of combat has occurred on gates.
Nex apparatu5 Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 162	Posted - 2012.02.05 01:49:00 - [23] - Quote Eve is a terrible game. It's the stuff you can do despite the gameplay, not the gameplay, that makes Eve awesome.
Paeniteo D.I.R.T 0	Posted - 2012.02.05 02:05:00 - [24] - Quote We've created our own savage little island and we are its cannibal inhabitants. We relish the drama, escalate the wars and drink down the tears. Our self destructive nature is precisely what keeps EVE alive. It is the only thing that is truly exciting about New Eden. The idea that this needs to be changed because it pushes a lot of people away is MMO suicide.
Humidor Cigarillo 0	Posted - 2012.02.05 02:34:00 - [25] - Quote IDGI. You're asserting that gameplay is bad because it involves mouse clicks and relatively few hotkeys? Remind me again of the wildly successful mmo where that wasn't the case. I'll wait. In case this is just a veiled whine about being forced to camp gates or people camping said gates, you can always go to nullsec like a big boy and anchor some not-on-gate-pvp-inducing bubbles or proactively scan for your targets anywhere you want. Sounds to me like you thirst for twitch gameplay that rewards reaction time and having loads of key binds. Might I recommend some FPS titles to you?
Umega Solis Mensa 99	Posted - 2012.02.05 03:29:00 - [26] - Quote Got to love how people speak for a sigment of society, using their own personal experinces as justification in being aloud to claim a 'majority of :insert stereotype here:' and speak for others without permission.. I can do it too I suppose.. The majority of EVE posters don't like it when Ghoest makes yet another attempt at trying to be controversial on a subject that's already got threads of its own, and the majority of EVE readers wishes he was banned from being aloud to create anymore threads on the forums so that we are not subjected to his meager attempts at being witty. Oh and in Ghoest form.. I'm right cause I wrote it down and said so. Na-na Na-na Boo-boo And before you try, Ghoest.. :Insert one sentence reply that has no substance other than the belief I can read minds and dictate people's intentions with my jedi mind trick response: Beat ya too it!
ASadOldGit School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 119	Posted - 2012.02.05 04:03:00 - [27] - Quote The Apostle wrote: I've likened Eve fleet combat to teaching a class of oldies how to use the internets. Teacher> Click your mouse on the little square while holding the Ctrl-key. Teacher> Now take your cursor to the bottom of the screen and click the little circle, that's it, the one with the picture on it. Teacher> Very good. Now click another little square and repeat the process. Student> That little square dissappeared - where did it go? Teacher> So click a different square. The one flashing. Student> I don't understand Teacher> Click the ***** SQUARE YOU *** MORON STUPID DUMB **! So, did you pass your internet class? My container is NOT imploding! It's just a bit upset that it only sees cheap crap.
Amon Tyr Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2012.02.05 04:32:00 - [28] - Quote I do wish Eve had more engaging combat mechanics, or at least the option for being able to manually cruise your ship and shoot stuff FPS style.
Ghoest 251	Posted - 2012.02.05 13:05:00 - [29] - Quote Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: Ghoest wrote: EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. BUT...the mechanic behind it is BRILLIANT. I will stand behind that despite all. If you are referring to the sandbox and loss elements then yes I agree. Nex apparatu5 wrote: It's the stuff you can do despite the gameplay, not the gameplay, that makes Eve awesome. I think I would change that from "awesome" to "the best game available." Wherever You Went - Here You Are

CCP Nullarbor C C P C C P Alliance 297	Posted - 2012.02.05 13:43:00 - [30] - Quote Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) CCP Nullarbor \| Exotic Dancer


Willl Adama Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 128	Posted - 2012.02.05 13:48:00 - [31] - Quote mby u should stop gatecamping m8 Latest Video:-á-á Kill Will: Volume 4
Andrea Griffin 102	Posted - 2012.02.05 13:54:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) Hot! Single? : > It's not you guys who need to repair what has been broken, it's us. CCP Wrangler
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront 274	Posted - 2012.02.05 14:04:00 - [33] - Quote What you say is accurate as long as you differentiate between 'ganks' and 'fights'. The more people you have in a gang the more dumbed down the gameplay for the individual .. CCPs challenge is to make changes that discourage "oversize everything!" (ships/buffers/gangs/epeens) to ensure success in any venture. The pre-planned module sequence you mention is barely noticeable in the small gang/solo fights as cap/ammo/vectors/heat/etc. all have to be adjusted on the fly to ensure success .. I say barely noticeable as it is still there, you generally want point before web (too many accidental insta-warps ), guns need priming etcetera but it is what people do after that first "cycle" that wins/loses fights. That difference is why we in FW raged when CCPCSM said they want FW to be null-liteGäó, as it is currently the only place in Eve where the small is encouraged and thus the only place where one can consistently get to experience a less dumbed down version of Eve gameplay.
Ottersmacker Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 48	Posted - 2012.02.05 14:25:00 - [34] - Quote i came expecting empress jamyl with the intention to just write "i came", left disappointed -.- The Order of the Falcon or Hin +¡slenska f+ílkaor+¦a is a national Order of Iceland
LifeLines Caldari Provisions Caldari State 0	Posted - 2012.02.05 14:42:00 - [35] - Quote I love it how all the fanbois mindlessly jump on OP and not even try to refute what he said. Activating modules and orbiting a target is what you call pvp? xD You guys are in denial. Yes, 90% of EVE's PvP is gatecamping. This system is boring and poorly thought out and I dont know why my sub is still active.. oh yes the industry part of the game. Thats the only thing I enjoy in EVE. EVE is not a PvP game. Its a game designed by carebears for carebears(like me so i cant complain too much i guess). I brought 3 irl friends to EVE and they all quit when they realized that EVE's pvp that looks so great in CCP's movies is simply : 1. press button (F1-F8) 2. wait for outcome. A complete overhaul to EVE's PVP system is long overdue. Its simplicity of "press button; wait for outcome" might have been okay when it was in development 10 years ago, but not anymore.
Mara Tessidar Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 466	Posted - 2012.02.05 15:05:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) He's the King of Space [echoing] space space space (space space space space.....) http://goo.gl/uX5vk
Valei Khurelem 265	Posted - 2012.02.05 15:16:00 - [37] - Quote Nex apparatu5 wrote: Eve is a terrible game. It's the stuff you can do despite the gameplay, not the gameplay, that makes Eve awesome. That's pretty much it, what makes it interesting is the suicide ganking, can flipping, scams, espionage, politics and losses, if EVE just reverted to what every other MMORPG did and CCP cracked down on all this type of thing everyone would be yelling about how much it sucks even more. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Adunh Slavy Ammatar Trade Syndicate 310	Posted - 2012.02.05 15:38:00 - [38] - Quote Gates are lame and lead to horribly repetitive game play. it's 2012, it's time to get over these 1990s mechanics. The most wide open and most dynamic battle field that man could ever imagine, and what do we do in Eve? Sit in a parking lot and wait for a mouse to poke it's head out of a hole so we can whack it. LAME! There is plenty of chance for large battles (blobs) on Eve, battles at POSes, all the Dominion Sov pieces, stations - The game does not also need a mechanic to force players to the same location, it already has plenty with out gates. Much of the Null Sec stagnation comes about because of gates. The potential granularity of risk aversion and reward is damaged because of gates and the stark contrast they present to the majority of players. Game play options for smaller groups is reduced.
Asuri Kinnes Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy 165	Posted - 2012.02.05 16:43:00 - [39] - Quote LifeLines wrote: Yes, 90% of EVE's PvP is gatecamping. Dam - no gates in Wormholes... No wonder it's so empty out here... and cold... and lonley... /scared... Wormholes: The NEW end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs. NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Dinsdale Pirannha Pirannha Corp 144	Posted - 2012.02.05 17:10:00 - [40] - Quote Asuri Kinnes wrote: LifeLines wrote: Yes, 90% of EVE's PvP is gatecamping. Dam - no gates in Wormholes... No wonder it's so empty out here... and cold... and lonley... /scared... No doubt wh pockets are what all of Eve true 0.0 space should be like. No local, no Concord, no NPC stations, nothing. You live by your guts and wits.

gfldex 314	Posted - 2012.02.05 17:44:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) You sure it's not the nakit empress he is talking about? The game has a tutorial that gives you a mining laser and a railgun and tells you to go shoot rocks and red crosses. It teaches you nothing else. It's been that way for 8 years, so are you really surprised that there are people who aren't aware that this is a pvp game? --Jafit McJafitson
Dr Silkworth Two Geezers in Space 0	Posted - 2012.02.05 17:59:00 - [42] - Quote As a financial business model game. Eve is pretty darn good. The corp interface and mechanics need work to allow more flexibility in business models and internal security. If you had this, I think talent could be managed better, medals were nice, adjustable automatic pay options could be a source of motivation. At its core Eve was designed while Iceland ramped up its financial models and I think that is its strength that they have abandoned. The game when I came in was corp against corp, not rogue band of drunks against noobs with tinfoil armor. Ships turn out to be huge motivators for noobs but I agree that gameplay where the loss is only about 30 seconds. The large alliance battles look fun but there is too much time investment to become part of them so the noob is left with the task of either starting his own corp with zero experience or trying to pvp solo in a moa or some other dream ship. I hang with ordinary people, none of them do financial modeling, a few still like to hang at the Starbucks doing calc for fun. Those guys won't even get on the internet let alone associate with rogues like us. everybody I know trys to stay as far away as they can from people like us. Actually I'm the same way, when the sign on number are to high, I go to the coffee shop. Any sane business man know, risk does not equal reward. Managing risk, making it as low as possible is one of the keys to higher profits. Flying ships in heavy traffic is a drag.
YuuKnow The Scope Gallente Federation 41	Posted - 2012.02.05 18:59:00 - [43] - Quote Adunh Slavy wrote: Gates are lame and lead to horribly repetitive game play. it's 2012, it's time to get over these 1990s mechanics. The most wide open and most dynamic battle field that man could ever imagine, and what do we do in Eve? Sit in a parking lot and wait for a mouse to poke it's head out of a hole so we can whack it. LAME! There is plenty of chance for large battles (blobs) on Eve, battles at POSes, all the Dominion Sov pieces, stations - The game does not also need a mechanic to force players to the same location, it already has plenty with out gates. Much of the Null Sec stagnation comes about because of gates. The potential granularity of risk aversion and reward is damaged because of gates and the stark contrast they present to the majority of players. Game play options for smaller groups is reduced. I agree. But its too easy tatically to take advantage of. It would be like an admiral not taking advantage of a chokepoint... wouldn't make much since not since its the easiest and most productive approach. CCP would have to do something to get players off the gates if they want to change this. In low sec they could make the turrets uber (say that they are fed by the gate energy and give them megauberwthbbqpawnage dps or mega cap neutralization, or mega ECM scramming or somethin), but in null sec it will still be a reality. I say its time for CCP to try some different changes in various parts of the Galaxy to see if they improve the gameplay. 1) Make a some sections of null sec at the tips of the galaxy without local and see how its goes. Call it the -10 sec status. 2) Make 0.4 sec system gates uncampable (with the above turret changes), so we can see what pvp becomes without gate camps (leave the other low sec gates unchanged) 3) Give some systems gates a manditory 15km warp range like old times (a permanent warp bubble) to see what the gameplay will become without warp to 0 or instajump bookmarks. Make some tech **** to justify why.... and then see if the gameplay is funner or more interesting. Given that there are 5000 systems in eve, there's plenty of systems that can be used for trial and error. The things that work and make the game more fun keep and expand. The things that don't work change back. Such a massive sandbox needs experimentation. yk
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions 420	Posted - 2012.02.05 19:35:00 - [44] - Quote @ CCP DEV - Mittani is not the Emperor of EVE. John Turbefield is. And Eh gahds, my eyes burn... Although I appreciate your sentiment - I think you have to get off the gate, so to speak. Fights can happen at Stations, Outposts, POCOs, Ihubs, POS', etc. Interdiction at the Gate is common in those situations, but that's just a natural consequence of a choke point. People move around, they tend to find each other at positions that are the most common points of interaction - the gates. You interact with the most people on the road or on the sidewalk in real life. And really, what makes a gate any less interesting than fighting at any other object. Other objects... well.. just sit there. Also, the important part is the other side of a gate is concealed, so people can ambush unsuspecting ships the easiest - directional scan makes most ambushes challenging without a cov ops because they can see you on scan - and it's pretty hard to catch an unwilling target in EVE already. You can dock, you can warp, you can safe spot, you can do a lot of things to get away if you're a smart pilot. So not only is it a choke point, it's a chokepoint with immediate tactical advantage to negate the nature of easy escape in EVE. Not fighting at a stargate just doesn't make sense, tactically. Excluding null sec sov structures since they're not omnipresent across all EVE landscapes, Belts and Planets are rarely used "celestials". Belts only have rats and are generally not visited by PVP groups unnecessarily (or meet at top belt for a fight) - and Planets (without POCOS) have no interest to PVP groups either. So, in EVE, you're either hunting the unwilling - (mission runners, explorers, etc) - fighting over "something valuable" - or just "looking for a fight". If you're just "looking for a fight" - you're probably going to fight on a gate the most often - because other people "looking for a fight" are going to be on that gate. If you're hunting for mission runners and explorers, you're most likely to find them on the site, or perhaps on a gate moving to that site. If you're fighting over something valuable, you're going to fight on the way to that "valuable", aka the gate, or at that "valuable" thing. So, how do you propose attracting people "looking for a fight" off of gates, if they need to go through gates to "look for a fight"? Well, again, system population is very low on average in low and null - and because you can see everyone in local it makes it easy to just scratch off and say "I'm going to the next system" and then that leaves the system empty for the next person coming up behind saying "this system is empty, I'm going to the next system", etc. The only thing that will fix this is, ironically, removal of local channel as we know it today - increasing local population so people looking for a fight and people not looking for a fight can co-habitate in a 2 fold manner : #1 The people not looking for a fight don't know that they're being hunted just by glancing at local #2 The people looking for a fight can't know that they have to move to the next system so quickly - meaning that they linger longer for the next person looking for a fight to come along. I've seen this happen with some guilds - where people log on, check the ventrilo and guild chat, and then say "Noone is playing, I'm going to log off and play another game" Their total time in game is 2 minutes. And immediately RIGHT AFTER another person logs on and does the same thing. 5-10 people will log on and log off never stopping to stay long enough to meet up with their friend. 20 people aren't going to automagically appear in a system. They need to gather, sometimes slowly. And the same thing needs to happen if you want to get PVP off the gates. Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting
IGNATIUS HOOD Zephyr Corp 281	Posted - 2012.02.05 21:39:00 - [45] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Everyone loves to talk about how EVE drives away noobs because its too hard core. Thats not why most people leave after they try it. The main reason is one that no one will admit. EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. EVE has many great things. The intensity of risking your ship, the economy, the vast scale, the complexity, the politics and resources, and the wars. All awesome stuff. But the actual game play sucks. 1 You fight by clicking on targets then turning on and off you modules. 2 90% of combat is related to attacking people as they come through gates. Most people who try EVE realize the details of the combat and leave because its lame - not because its so hardcore. Sitting by a gate(or more likey for a noob, coming through the gate), followed a 30 second battle that is usually just a short pre-planed cycle of modules - the actual game play is boring. You're doing it wrong. Troll is trolling 1/10. 'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim' Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you.
Valei Khurelem 268	Posted - 2012.02.05 21:46:00 - [46] - Quote This is why so many people prefer playing singleplayer games or multiplayer games where you just hop in and can immediately do stuff that you've paid for, why should paying customers have to wait several days sometimes weeks just to gain access to the content? All this is designed to do is to force players who want to progress within the game to pay more money, the wise ones either hook up with some trustworthy people and gather ISK for the next PLEX or they quit. MMORPGs are a dying business model and it shows more and more with each new one that comes out, no ones going to pay subscription fees for a game that not only isn't balanced, but also forces them to subscribe a month before they can do anything useful. I really do think that EVE's only saving grace for the most part has been the fact that PLEX can be bought with ISK so it means people don't necessarily have to pay with real money anymore though the downside is now you have people who just spend real money on ISK to win through the use of these ISK bought PLEX. If CCP want this business model to continue, they have to show they're genuinely willing to use the subscription fees that players give them for creating great gameplay content and fixing problems, they really showed how their money was being used when one of the devs was trying to make a metaphor about buying $1000 pants and thinking it was applicable as a game metaphor. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Leah Solo State War Academy Caldari State 29	Posted - 2012.02.05 23:13:00 - [47] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Everyone loves to talk about how EVE drives away noobs because its too hard core. Thats not why most people leave after they try it. The main reason is one that no one will admit. EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. EVE has many great things. The intensity of risking your ship, the economy, the vast scale, the complexity, the politics and resources, and the wars. All awesome stuff. But the actual game play sucks. 1 You fight by clicking on targets then turning on and off you modules. 2 90% of combat is related to attacking people as they come through gates. Most people who try EVE realize the details of the combat and leave because its lame - not because its so hardcore. Sitting by a gate(or more likey for a noob, coming through the gate), followed a 30 second battle that is usually just a short pre-planed cycle of modules - the actual game play is boring. As someone already stated, you're doing it wrong. Gate camping is just one instance of pvp. How about roaming? Maybe small fleet or solo? Using d-scan to find your victims, gathering intel from local, outsmarting your opponent? No? You can roam same systems every day, and each day you'll find yourself in different situations. Can't see how that's boring. More like dynamic and exciting. So you propose EVE mechanics should change cause you're uncreative and suck at pvp?
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1192	Posted - 2012.02.06 06:45:00 - [48] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) Why, God, why did I click on that? EvE is what you make it. If all you want is instant gratification it's not the game for you. Sadly a lot of people come in with the wrong idea. Let's do it this way: People who watched Baywatch, SNG, and "Dancing", tend to be wow players. The people who watched Firefly and Stargate (but not that Atlantis spinoff, I mean, c'mon) are SWTOR and LOTR players. The guys watching Lexx, Red Dwarf, Doctor Who, and MST3K are the ones playing eve. Generalizations yes - but I refer to things where everything is up front, simple to comprehend, easy for reward (entertainment in this case) versus having to figure things out for yourself and get the fat end of a baseball bat up yours without loob in the meantime.
Valei Khurelem 269	Posted - 2012.02.06 09:09:00 - [49] - Quote Quote: EvE is what you make it. If all you want is instant gratification it's not the game for you. Sadly a lot of people come in with the wrong idea. hi, this is a game, we paid real money for it, why do you deserve to have the content and not us? You aren't special in any way. "don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium
Ocih Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums 73	Posted - 2012.02.06 09:58:00 - [50] - Quote Came expecting neked pics of Jamyl 1 To the OP's point though, this games combat is tied to its nav system and the Nav system here is like 2 other games I can remember playing. Lineage 2 and Runescape. Click a spot, move to it. In EVE we have limited clickable points known in other games as hooks but you Nav to the hook by clicking it and confirming or warping. In combat it's all orbit at optimal or run to optimal in an attempt to orbital at Optimal. Unless combat is taken off the nav build it can't be made "better". I don't see how CCP can do that without pulling the proverbial NGE and gutting its vet base. It is not in CCP's intrest to revamp EVE to bring in new subs. The game is too old. EVE 2? I dont know why they never. It's the logical step.

Lady Spank Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 1465	Posted - 2012.02.06 10:55:00 - [51] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Quote: EvE is what you make it. If all you want is instant gratification it's not the game for you. Sadly a lot of people come in with the wrong idea. hi, this is a game, we paid real money for it, why do you deserve to have the content and not us? You aren't special in any way. You are just as entitled as anyone else. Unless you are expecting to be jumping in titans on day two or something equally unrealustic. Even then, is you insist on instant gratification you can buy a character, although that misses the key point that everyone is equal in this game. The only barrier to 'content' is your unwillingness, lack or imagination or social skills. You want instant gratification, pay for it. You will quickly discover that all the skillpoints and ISK in the world aren't worth a thing without experience. It's like skipping to the last chapter of a book in order to compete with those that began reading it last week. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Real Poison Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda 87	Posted - 2012.02.06 12:30:00 - [52] - Quote i'd suggest then that CCP should change the gameplay in such a way that those ppl that are frustratedly leaving will only speak highly about eve and how awesome the game is/was. That could end in a WIN:WIN situation.
Honnete Du Decimer 40	Posted - 2012.02.06 12:42:00 - [53] - Quote F1-F8 on / off are best. Game for mashing of the buttons and reason I no like is WoW. Best macro win! PMS
Alpheias Euphoria Released 0ccupational Hazzard 446	Posted - 2012.02.06 12:44:00 - [54] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Valei Khurelem wrote: Quote: EvE is what you make it. If all you want is instant gratification it's not the game for you. Sadly a lot of people come in with the wrong idea. hi, this is a game, we paid real money for it, why do you deserve to have the content and not us? You aren't special in any way. You are just as entitled as anyone else. Unless you are expecting to be jumping in titans on day two or something equally unrealustic. Even then, is you insist on instant gratification you can buy a character, although that misses the key point that everyone is equal in this game. The only barrier to 'content' is your unwillingness, lack or imagination or social skills. You want instant gratification, pay for it. You will quickly discover that all the skillpoints and ISK in the world aren't worth a thing without experience. It's like skipping to the last chapter of a book in order to compete with those that began reading it last week. Quoted for truth. I'd kill kittens and puppies and bunnies I'd maim toddlers and teens and then more
Inir Ishtori Perkone Caldari State 28	Posted - 2012.02.06 13:38:00 - [55] - Quote Herzog Wolfhammer wrote: Let's do it this way: People who watched Baywatch, SNG, and "Dancing", tend to be wow players. The people who watched Firefly and Stargate (but not that Atlantis spinoff, I mean, c'mon) are SWTOR and LOTR players. The guys watching Lexx, Red Dwarf, Doctor Who, and MST3K are the ones playing eve. Generalizations yes - but I refer to things where everything is up front, simple to comprehend, easy for reward (entertainment in this case) versus having to figure things out for yourself and get the fat end of a baseball bat up yours without loob in the meantime. This is where i remember the saying "Eve players are to nerds what nerds are to normal people". Also, imo, Ghoest is spot on in his OP.
Fidelium Mortis Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords 53	Posted - 2012.02.06 14:37:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) Mittens proving that there is something whiter than snow. @OP - If you're looking for something different in combat, try small skirmish or solo fights. Just turning on your mods and orbiting is a quick recipe for getting blown up, especially in even or "under shipped" fights. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon
Jenn aSide Smokin Aces. 35	Posted - 2012.02.06 15:15:00 - [57] - Quote Paeniteo wrote: We've created our own savage little island and we are its cannibal inhabitants. We relish the drama, escalate the wars and drink down the tears. Our self destructive nature is precisely what keeps EVE alive. It is the only thing that is truly exciting about New Eden. The idea that this needs to be changed because it pushes a lot of people away is MMO suicide. +1 The saying I like the best is "when you start out in eve, you are a child in a park full of pedophiles. If you are lucky and smart, you become one of the pedophiles" :). When EVE stops driving away the twitch happy, theme park loving, "omg the death penalty is too harsh, I just lost all my gear on the one ship I owned", "wyhy can't i level up by shooting forest pigs" types (I call these people "MMO players"), well that's when I stop playing EVE. You can have a good, intense, solid, original somewhat profitable niche/boutique game (EVE) OR you can have a crappy mass appeal game that makes boatload of money where everyone is coddled and made to feel "special". Screw that, give me EVE.
Ghoest 259	Posted - 2012.02.06 15:26:00 - [58] - Quote Leah Solo wrote: Ghoest wrote: Everyone loves to talk about how EVE drives away noobs because its too hard core. Thats not why most people leave after they try it. The main reason is one that no one will admit. EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. EVE has many great things. The intensity of risking your ship, the economy, the vast scale, the complexity, the politics and resources, and the wars. All awesome stuff. But the actual game play sucks. 1 You fight by clicking on targets then turning on and off you modules. 2 90% of combat is related to attacking people as they come through gates. Most people who try EVE realize the details of the combat and leave because its lame - not because its so hardcore. Sitting by a gate(or more likey for a noob, coming through the gate), followed a 30 second battle that is usually just a short pre-planed cycle of modules - the actual game play is boring. As someone already stated, you're doing it wrong. Gate camping is just one instance of pvp. How about roaming? Maybe small fleet or solo? Using d-scan to find your victims, gathering intel from local, outsmarting your opponent? No? You can roam same systems every day, and each day you'll find yourself in different situations. Can't see how that's boring. More like dynamic and exciting. So you propose EVE mechanics should change cause you're uncreative and suck at pvp? Are you [insert any intelligence pejorative]? Where did I even suggest that I gate camp? I hate to be rude but you are making false comments about me, so you dont get the benefit of the doubt. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 218	Posted - 2012.02.06 15:29:00 - [59] - Quote Ummm...what do you expect to accomplish by telling the truth here? You must know the ones who find EVE's "dynamics" suited to their attention spans and arrested emotional development will only flame you and claim how right they are and how cowardly you just have to be. My son used to play EVE with me...since '07. But, he quit. Why? "There's no game there." Strange, eh? (Leave it to a Dev to chime in on this one...with a stupified "Yuk yuk.") Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
Angsty Teenager Sinister Elite 38	Posted - 2012.02.06 15:56:00 - [60] - Quote ITT: People who complain about PVP being boring because they are blobbing. Here's a wake up call people, PVP in eve is extremely boring in fleets larger than 5 people, because guess what? There is no strategy involved at all, all you do is press F1 and hope your buffer holds long enough to win you the fight. You have two options, 1: Fly bloody logi in your fleets because guess what? That actually requires thinking and while maybe not fun (imo) it sure is not boring. 2: Stop being a scrub coward and go solo or duo pvp. Becuase guess what? It's fun. Solo pvp is not just press a couple buttons and win or lose while spending 90% of your time on the gate. If you pick your ship correctly it's not at all a terrible situation where you can't engage 70% of what you come across and the other 30% runs from you. Half the game is fitting your ship in a novel way to surprise your opponent, as well as being able to bait him into a fight. If you don't like mind games, and you don't like following orders in a fleet, well then I don't really know what the hell you'll like. If you want to be successful in solo pvp, you have to be able to manual pilot, manage your modules effectively, make appropriate decisions in fights depending on who you're fighting, and this is fun because you're in control. In my opinion the best part is the satisfaction you get out of killing somebody and both of you knowing that you are the better player and they are trash, but that's just me. However, I think that a large number of people play this game for that sort of opportunity and some don't understand that the way to achieve that is not by playing in groups but by going out on your own. I really think the big issue here is that CCP along with the general playerbase seems to tout the idea that everybody has to join a corp/alliance and play in groups to be successful (this is well shown in most of their PVE content, WH's, Incursions, 0.0 Plexes...). But while I agree that having people to play with and socialize with is one of the big draws to MMO's, I think most of what makes eve fun is wasted this why by completeing avoiding the possibility of playing alone. (Of course I don't mean playing alone 100% of the time, but I think that it's an avenue that is very fun and one that most people don't explore because they either haven't even considered it, or they are too fearful of losing their ****, even if the loss is miniscule). And to this end I think that the second big issue outside of CCP promoting team gameplay over solo gameplay, is that the general vet playerbase has turned the game into one where the only viable option if you're not a great player or particularly enterprising is to join a large corp or alliance. The reason I say this is because solo pvp is very dead currently (dead in comparison to what it could be, I mean), and largely I would say this is because of blobs/large gangs being ratio-wise more common to encounter than somebody else that you can actually engage and have a semi-fair fight with. The attitude that so many people have that losing your ship is so much of an issue that you can't ever take it out without backup is killing this game on more levels than simply plain solo pvp. I think this is a tragedy and honestly I don't really think it can be fixed without a dramatic playerbase attitude change (which won't happen), or significant gameplay changes to severely limited the benefits of being in a group as opposed to being solo (which again won't happen). A step in the right direction might be to make solo pvp much more accessible for lower level players, and although I'm on the whole against contrived mechanics like this, I think it would be a good idea to have a section of space where new players are forced to be sent into at the end of their tutorial (or as part of a PVP tutorial) that is a 0.0 section of space, but where only players under 15 days can go. Or something else along these lines--but an area where only low-skilled players are allowed who have no affiliation with a corp or alliance yet, simply to introduce them to honest solo pvp in an environment where they're not immediately put at a severe disadvantage due to a lack of SP, ISK, and friends to back them up.

Mr Epeen It's All About Me 726	Posted - 2012.02.06 16:51:00 - [61] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Everyone loves to talk about how EVE drives away noobs because its too hard core. Thats not why most people leave after they try it. The main reason is one that no one will admit. EVES GAME PLAY IS HORRIBLE. EVE has many great things. The intensity of risking your ship, the economy, the vast scale, the complexity, the politics and resources, and the wars. All awesome stuff. But the actual game play sucks. 1 You fight by clicking on targets then turning on and off you modules. 2 90% of combat is related to attacking people as they come through gates. Most people who try EVE realize the details of the combat and leave because its lame - not because its so hardcore. Sitting by a gate(or more likey for a noob, coming through the gate), followed a 30 second battle that is usually just a short pre-planed cycle of modules - the actual game play is boring. If ever a space MMO with the fight mechanics of Freelancer comes into existence, I will be first in line. But until that day, EVE is pretty much it. And while chess in space (Rifter to logistic 4) has it's boring side, it's the way it is and so ingrained into the basic game that it would be impossible to change without recoding from scratch. Mr Epeen Me too!-á I ate one sour, too!
MisterNick The Sagan Clan Pax Romana Alliance 31	Posted - 2012.02.06 17:22:00 - [62] - Quote Sounds like the OP needs to spend more time in Wormholes. Actually scratch that, Moar wormholes for all! "Fools! I'll show them all!" What do you mean that one's already taken?
Gogela Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance 321	Posted - 2012.02.06 17:48:00 - [63] - Quote CCP Nullarbor wrote: Actually EVEs Naked Emperor http://gd.klaki.net/0aa3f4446edc1d98ef6caf50ff12719a/DSCN0205.jpg (sorry, good discussion here, please continue) Damn. I'm in Colorado... that still looks frakin' cold. EvE gameplay isn't horrible. It's just getting into a rut. The blinders are on. I think we should get some smaller ships in there mixing it up stick and rudder or atmospheric flight style. I know there's not atmosphere in space. I realize that. ...but this "orbiting" bulls* we do now is no more realistic. We could have freelancer style combat... maybe something sub-frigate class? Dust is putting boots on the ground. Large fleet combat (and small) getting looked at for summer. I would say we are on the right track and gameplay is set to diversify more as it is. I think the existing mechanics for larger ships is ideal and makes sense. Things can get pretty complex with fleets... Gê¦Gê¦-áEvery Ship in GëíGêçGëí-áGê¦Gê¦** GëíGêçGëí-+ odd items
Vaerah Vahrokha Vahrokh Consulting 250	Posted - 2012.02.06 18:05:00 - [64] - Quote EvE Online is quite bad at fight micro-management controls, some won't even bother and just orbit and open fire and let the ship stats play. EvE Online is not a FPS nor XWing but it's an higher level multi-layer Risk where you could be a Queen manouvering pawns while being the pawn of an higher level Queen yourself. Now, while some like to be The Mastermind and macro manage others, the majority are and prefer simpler, immediate things. Where a big disconnect happened between developers and such playerbase is that: - developers wanted to bring EvE to the next level by implementing Incarna (also, as free beta test bench for Emo Vampires MMO). - such players wanted to play a MMO, galaxy wide version of Freelancer. Imagine being free to be the macro-director behind production, trading, PI etc but also to jump in first person and toast faces in the ship, each with cockpit, buttons, displays. That's the "Incarna" where people would want to see their avatars inside, not in some Aurum shop. Imagine playing an Incursion or even a menial L4 mission where instead of some clicks you are immersed in a dynamic video featuring yourself being briefed about what to do a la Tie Figther, while seeing the enemies leaders (in another video segment) talking about their plans and stuff. Sure this kind of content would get old but it'd be technically easy to make (heck they did it in the 90's on DOS computers) and would give the thin feeling of immersion many gamers would be happy to enjoy. Auditing \| Collateral holding and insurance \| Consulting \| PLEX for Good Charity Twitter channel
Lady Spank Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 1472	Posted - 2012.02.06 20:10:00 - [65] - Quote Angry Teenager is the most intelligent poster in this thread and totally gets eve pew pew. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Serene Repose Perkone Caldari State 219	Posted - 2012.02.06 21:31:00 - [66] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Angry Teenager is the most intelligent poster in this thread and totally gets eve pew pew. What would we do without your omniscient proclamations and mighty judgement from your ivory tower. Supercilious? YOU? Naw....you're just GOD. They have pills for that, you know. Super silly US for reading it. Smokestack lightnin' shinin' just like gold.
Denuo Secus 37	Posted - 2012.02.06 23:31:00 - [67] - Quote Angsty Teenager's post is spot-on. I can confirm what he wrote. I never had much fun participating in blobs. Instead I really enjoy the "underdog role" in PvP. Fighting when outnumbered, solo or only with a few mates on my side. I had fights lasting 10+ minutes. I need to outsmart and surprise my opponents. Thinking outside the box is helpful. The everlasting challenge to earn enough ISK to afford this (sometimes expensive) style of PvP. For me all this is maximum fun. At the end I often receive much more than a "gf" in local. Some even thanked me for the fight!
Lady Spank Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED 1475	Posted - 2012.02.06 23:57:00 - [68] - Quote Serene Repose wrote: Lady Spank wrote: Angry Teenager is the most intelligent poster in this thread and totally gets eve pew pew. What would we do without your omniscient proclamations and mighty judgement from your ivory tower. Supercilious? YOU? Naw....you're just GOD. They have pills for that, you know. Super silly US for reading it. Are you suggesting what he wrote is wrong? (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1195	Posted - 2012.02.07 00:43:00 - [69] - Quote Valei Khurelem wrote: Quote: EvE is what you make it. If all you want is instant gratification it's not the game for you. Sadly a lot of people come in with the wrong idea. hi, this is a game, we paid real money for it, why do you deserve to have the content and not us? You aren't special in any way. You miss my point and prove it at the same time. Of the overall game content, since starting in 2006, I have yet to see every mission, storyline, epic arc, and have so far seen only roughly 40 percent of the content that is out there. And this is because there is no "quest line" that can be done for "leveling up". Much of the content, because of the way I play, will not be experienced either. If an opportunity comes up, that's great. But I pay the same amount for a sub that anyone else pays, and someone else paying the same amount might have, in the same amount of time, done every mission, flown every ship, engaged in every profession, and hit every constellation at least once. To say that I, because I pay to be here, should have that kind of experience, when it was entirely up to me to take the time to do it, would be absurd. One area where time = success is in the "levelling up/power grinding for purps" thing that we see in other MMOs. This results in a "he who is most neckbearded wins" scenario. EvE is not as harsh. Being able to run a Skill Queue while away is one of the huge selling points of this game and were it really required to have a thick layer of beard on my neck (read: have no life and play this game all of the time doing nothing else) to have any kind of status other than FAIL, I would have left years ago. Instead, at times logging in only to patch or update the client and keep the skill queue going for months, there are these "incidents" that are memorable or epic and I was able to have some level of survival (just a little beyond SUCK) because I am not being punished for having a life and a full time job. This is well worth it, and worth the money I spent. But I am in no way entitled to anything. Neither are you.
Taedrin Kushan Industrial 331	Posted - 2012.02.07 01:47:00 - [70] - Quote I half agree with the OP. There is a LARGE amount of content in EVE which is just plain boring. Virtually EVERY mission in EVE is the same: Warp in, kill everything, rinse and repeat. SOMETIMES CCP likes to mix it up a bit, and make you warp in, kill everything and then loot a mission objective. Mining is also relatively simple: warp in, target a rock activate miners and empty your cargo every time it fills up. Or protecting your borders in null sec: Drop a bubble on a gate, sit there and shoot everything that isn't blue. The thing is that people don't play EVE because they WANT to do these things. People play EVE in SPITE of these things. You do these things so you can get to the fun part: small gang PvP, experience the drama, the intrigue, etc etc... This is one of the major reasons (IMO) why CCP needs to go back and reiterate on existing content. The old content is, frankly, BORING. It needs to be made interesting and engaging.

Krios Ahzek GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 464	Posted - 2012.02.07 04:39:00 - [71] - Quote Ocih wrote: Came expecting neked pics of Jamyl 1 Search on the Gallente holonet, you crossdressing, ignorantly spelling harlot. I am quite certain that there are at least 10 purported Jamyl Sarum holoreels. Most of them must be impostors, something which is quite easy to find in a Empire with a trillion citizens, but it is said that her youth as a frivolous noble socialite may have left a few... traces on her otherwise spotless record.
Ciar Meara Virtus Vindice 514	Posted - 2012.02.07 09:25:00 - [72] - Quote Friends of mine joined the game on the first month they got killed by low sec pirates doing a mission, probably exactly as the OP said, on a gate, station etc. We got together with some high level characters and the noobs, laid a trap and proceded to hunt the pirate's down. The guys who got killed got payback and the most exciting fight in their lives. So I don't think eve is broken, I think that many of the "papercuts" that are going to be solved in the coming months in addition with a better new player tutorial will help in making a more noob friendly area. I think the overview for instance needs a lot of work in conjunction with a progressive more visually pleasing UI and some eyecandy like the noob frigs update. - [img]http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/janus/ceosig.jpg[/img] [yellow]English only please. Zymurgist[/yellow]
Ione Hawke Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2012.02.07 09:45:00 - [73] - Quote tbh, I think making spaceship control more intuitive and direct would go a long way towards new player retention. Possibly more so then this whole Incarna thing. (Please add it as an addition option tho, and do not remove current way of controlling spaceships)
Spady Lank Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 4	Posted - 2012.02.07 18:52:00 - [74] - Quote Lady Spank wrote: Serene Repose wrote: Lady Spank wrote: Angry Teenager is the most intelligent poster in this thread and totally gets eve pew pew. What would we do without your omniscient proclamations and mighty judgement from your ivory tower. Supercilious? YOU? Naw....you're just GOD. They have pills for that, you know. Super silly US for reading it. Are you suggesting what he wrote is wrong? Are you suggesting you made a new irrelevant remark? (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â)
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 32	Posted - 2012.02.07 19:13:00 - [75] - Quote Amon Tyr wrote: I do wish Eve had more engaging combat mechanics, or at least the option for being able to manually cruise your ship and shoot stuff FPS style. You can fly your ship manually ... so its 1 of 2 at least. ;-)
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 48	Posted - 2012.02.07 19:39:00 - [76] - Quote Denuo Secus wrote: I had fights lasting 10+ minutes. The everlasting challenge to earn enough ISK to afford this (sometimes expensive) style of PvP. Oh we have way too many fights lasting 10+ minutes, granted, these usually shooting POS or repping pos, but they definitely drag on and on. Just yesterday, a drake fleet spent like 1 hour shooting POS, and it isn't as though you can just afk because some people defend against every little thing by hotdropping titans. And just before that, an hour repping POS and expecting them to come shoot it with their titans (they didn't show up either). Supercaps these days... I don't know too much about the challenge of ratting to afford ships. I suppose shooting red crosses can be considered an engaging form of gameplay for some.
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 61	Posted - 2012.02.07 20:28:00 - [77] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Denuo Secus wrote: I had fights lasting 10+ minutes. The everlasting challenge to earn enough ISK to afford this (sometimes expensive) style of PvP. Oh we have way too many fights lasting 10+ minutes, granted, these usually shooting POS or repping pos, but they definitely drag on and on. Just yesterday, a drake fleet spent like 1 hour shooting POS, and it isn't as though you can just afk because some people defend against every little thing by hotdropping titans. And just before that, an hour repping POS and expecting them to come shoot it with their titans (they didn't show up either). Supercaps these days... I don't know too much about the challenge of ratting to afford ships. I suppose shooting red crosses can be considered an engaging form of gameplay for some. aren't you in an alliance that hot drops everything? I mean, if you know your history, it would be pretty clear that goonSWARM got their start when they were a pre-sov holding alliance giant SWARMING in massive blobs of frigates and other ridiculous ship fits. They proved that a bunch of goons with fail fits and numbers can take down and overwhelm pretty much any target. I could be wrong but I doubt that they have swayed from this kind of mentality now that they are capable of hot dropping titans on laughable fleets. you sound like a hypocrite here lol back on topic though. If they added WASD for stick/rudder and mouse wheel for throttle or something on sisi for frigate class ships and maybe cruisers, i'd go check it out. small ship fights should be a bit more engaging and action packed. larger ships are just too big and clunky to justify those kinds of maneuvers and their flight controls should remain as is.
Tenris Anis Schattenengel Clan 32	Posted - 2012.02.07 20:45:00 - [78] - Quote arcca jeth wrote: small ship fights should be a bit more engaging and action packed. larger ships are just too big and clunky to justify those kinds of maneuvers and their flight controls should remain as is. "A Microwarpdrive? On a battleship? Are you insane?" Or machariel anyone? Big ships are often much more useful if carefully maneuvered. Nothing wrong with direct controls, their inertia will not change just because you use a different control scheme.
arcca jeth Dark Alliance Dark Empire Alliance 61	Posted - 2012.02.07 20:51:00 - [79] - Quote i'd like to also confirm that i have invited many real life friends who left quickly because they couldn't rip their mindset away from traditional fantasy MMOs where the game is engaging because right away you are running quests and collecting loots and building up your class and character. not a single one remains and even funnier, not even the guy who introduced me to this game still plays....but i stayed for several reasons. in most MMO games i have played, i have always enjoyed the idea of creating/crafting items and building businesses. and EVE offers the best around in this regard. the industry and trade model is unmatched by anything out there. I also remember how much time it took to, aside from skillpoints, to actually learn how industry works. there should be a constellation system that is large enough to progress from 1.0 to -1.0 or 0.0 that is like a "trial island" for new players only, like someone earlier suggested. where new players can play with only trial accounts and are allowed to leave if they choose but cannot return once they leave (would prevent any unfair advantages). also, no player to player isk giving in these systems and other restrictions that would give them an advantage during trial "much like the model used in EQII or Vanguard". I'd even suggest that there be 4 constellations for the 4 factions, that all tie in together at the 0.0 epicenter of this trial space area. then have these noob missions/quests send them to the same area of space so they can learn to pvp quickly, on a somewhat even playing field. if someone is making an alt, they just simply take the gate that puts them in "our space" and never look back. some ideas for missions in this area would be introduction to PvE for a few combat missions or so then send them progressively to the 0.0 epicenter. heres what i had in mind if it makes sense: could be seen as introductory FW minmatar pilot takes mission to trial 0.0 space on one side of the constellation and so does a caldari pilot on the other side. make the mission system offer these at the same time so that both pilots are using 2 different activation gates landing them on 2 different sides of the "battlefield". their mission could be to eliminate npc's of the opposing factions ships and/or fight to grab some loot from a warehouse or something. have the activation gates operate much like a "warfront" (as much as i hate the term) where players from both sides have to wait until the battlefield teams are full and have them activate the gates once both sides fleets have reached maximum capacity. anyways just some ideas that i'm sure no one will read, or like lol
FloppieTheBanjoClown The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard 829	Posted - 2012.02.07 21:35:00 - [80] - Quote Eve does need something to draw battles off the jumpgates and stations and into areas where aggression mechanics aren't as likely to become a significant factor in the fight. That said, I can't imagine what that would be. Eve's gameplay isn't boring though. If you're bored, either the game just isn't for you, or you're doing it wrong. I find it far more exciting than any other game I've played in recent years.



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