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SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Deathwatch Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 08:55:00 -
[61]
bump
SoulOfAnnihilation
D3ATHWATCH INC.
American Timezone PvP Director
"ċill D3ATH Do Us Parċ" |
Killerhound
Caldari
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:56:00 -
[62]
/signed
I have to agree with the idea making this ship at all "usefull" as it is the "Big Mama" of the stealth ships.
Give him the ability to use a covert ops cloaking.
Or give him a much stronger tank.
Remove the delays.
I use one of them, but never in PVP only for reconaissance and sneak attack with bombers.
Has anybody got a kill with one of those beasts so far?
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yupyupyup
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:03:00 -
[63]
They're fine as they are. The Black Ops can relatively safely pass through bubbled camps while still able to take on commander spawns. The perfect ratter. :)
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Killerhound
Caldari
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:08:00 -
[64]
Well if you want to rat where your enemies are, then this ship works fine.
But this is not the reason why I should spend 600 mio bucks for a ship to rat.
Why should it then be able to have a covert cyno jump portal generator?
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Killerhound
Caldari
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.02.03 13:20:00 -
[65]
Daily Bump
This ship needs to get buffed. Take a look at the market in Jita. There is no ship sold so badly. It makes no sense in introducing a ship that no one wants to fly.
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Andreya
Direct Intent
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Posted - 2008.02.03 18:40:00 -
[66]
not signed.
remove all damage from these ships, then maybe, or make it no more than 200 dps or so.
i dont care what anyone says, a battleship that can warp cloaked is a little uber,
maybe a 'warp while cloaked timer' for example. im in space. i hit my cloak, i stay cloak for 60 seconds... and cools down for 60 seconds, allowing me to warp around while cloaked. or get into position somewhere... but also to be scan probed for 60 seconds too
_________________________________________________________
Only once you've lost everything, are you free to do anything.
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Brother Welcome
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Posted - 2008.02.06 19:14:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Brother Welcome on 06/02/2008 19:15:58
 Originally by: SoulOfAnnihilation
Purpose: get into hostile territory, move around stealthfully.
Scenario: reach hostile territory, (possibly jump friendly recons in to help out), warp around, collect intel, if found can use EW to get away, cloak, and resume. make BM's for future fleet battles, gather more intel, get active and inactive times, and them have a friendly black ops pilot open a cyno near by. jump out and give the intel out to FCs, commence attack at leasure.
I like your ideas for a longer jump range and covert ops cloak, but I strongly feel you have taken their purpose awry. You have described the purpose of covert ops and recon, not black ops. Covert and recon already do the job you describe.
The principle of black ops is to cause trouble behind the lines. That is precisely what black ops warfare is about. And it is why these are fighting ships! They need to keep their damage bonuses, and they need space in cargo for PvP stuff like booster charges and missiles.
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Viral Effect
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Posted - 2008.02.07 01:57:00 -
[68]
Black ops ships arent too overpowered and they desperately need the ability to warp whilst cloaked. They were born for that role.
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Zurtan Bayle
Minmatar
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.02.07 08:36:00 -
[69]
/signed
Totally agree with your purpose.
Btw it's another strange things, about Cover Jump Portal and skills. The Covert Jump Portal Generator item don't have any bonus related to skil. The skill Jump Portal Generation is need to use it, what give 10% reduced material cost for jump portal activation per level. But a Covert jump portal don't need material for activation (not like Titan jump portal), so the skill is totally useless (at least to train more up than lvl 1).
A bonus on the item by skill level for reduce the isotope need for ship using the portal would be logic IMO. |
SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.09 08:24:00 -
[70]
Bump
SoulOfAnnihilation
Four Rings
PvP Wing
PA FC |
Zurtan Bayle
Minmatar
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2008.02.12 08:41:00 -
[71]
bump
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2008.02.13 13:44:00 -
[72]
So you want to jump into system at a covert cyno completely unseen ?
Then warp to your target completely unseen ?
Then decloak 5 v 1 etc and pwn your opponent ?
Only problem is gonna be anyone with the skills is also gonna be warping around completelly unseen :)
So nuubs get consta ganked and no-one else ever see's anyone else to shoot at
This idea = Death of EVE.
Total Uber overpowered ship.
Unless of course ccp gimp the firepower like in force recons when they grant covert cloak.
Then you wont be happy and will moan about 600M warships having no firepower.
Only change needed to black ops is a removal of the sensor resolution penalty for fitting cloaks.
Apart from that try using skill to engage your opponents rather than forum winge granted superpowers.
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Grapillon
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Posted - 2008.02.14 09:53:00 -
[73]
/signed (to give him the ability to warp cloaked)
This ship has either low fighting abilities and is VERY slow. Why is this a problem?
Well imagine it takes you to turn your ship about 8-9 Seconds. Well if you ever warped into a gate camp cloaked you know that his is a HELL of time.
The Widow really needs a boost. This ship has no defencive capabilities if you try to use it as intended with the ECM Jammers. That ship would be able to jam one ship ok but are you sure you want to fly a ship that is instantly primary everywhere you go that costs you 550 Mio and you dont even have the time to align before one of the gate camp flies closer then 2km next to you?
Those ship have missed there purpose. The jump portal uses far too much Fuel to be usefull at all. You can't fit a full tank and then jump in and think you will have enough fuel to get back. To correct this give those ship a cargo about 1000m3.
While flying this ship you cannot kill anything. Any tanked BS is outgunning you by far. They need far too much to fit in Powergrid /Cpu with the portal.
Something must be done as they are not worth their money at all.
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SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.19 19:05:00 -
[74]
bump
SoulOfAnnihilation
Four Rings
PvP Wing
PA FC |
SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.23 18:24:00 -
[75]
bump
SoulOfAnnihilation
Four Rings
PvP Wing
PA FC |
SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.28 08:07:00 -
[76]
bump
SoulOfAnnihilation
Four Rings
PvP Wing
PA FC |
Zarch AlDain
The Establishment
Establishment
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Posted - 2008.02.28 11:22:00 -
[77]
Admittedly I've not flown a widow yet but I've trained for it and I do like the look of the ship as it stands.
As you say they are a little gimped though - TBH I think the mistake was only bringing out one black ops ship. They should have done what was done with recon ships and bring out a combat black ops and a force black ops.
The combat black ops would have the extra weapon slot back, but lose the cloaking bonus.
The recon black ops would be able to use a covops cloak but lose its weapon damage bonuses instead so it loses yet more DPS.
Zarch AlDain
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Cailais
Amarr
VITOC
Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.02.28 11:45:00 -
[78]
/Signed. In triplicate with extra sugar on top.
The lack of warp while cloaked is a real kick in the teeth with these ships.
C.
Improved Low Sec Idea!! |
SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.01 14:39:00 -
[79]
i think that they could at least extend the range of the jump portals, imo, they are too short.
SoulOfAnnihilation
Four Rings
PvP Wing
PA FC |
Robert Ger
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.01 14:44:00 -
[80]
pls enable covert ops cloak on BOps
and the portal range improve thx
600 mil usefull then
***************
Vote for buidable structures on Planets!
*************** |
Dr 0wnage
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Posted - 2008.03.01 16:20:00 -
[81]
I myself was very disappointed when i found the black ops was not going to sport a covert cloak. I mean whats the point? Why not just fly a domi and save myself half a billion isk?
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Pimp Mustafa
Minmatar
Wreckless Abandon
Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.03.01 20:59:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Pimp Mustafa on 01/03/2008 20:59:37
Signed 
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.01 22:07:00 -
[83]
Give it a black ops cloak, all the penalties of a normal non-warp cloak, but allows you to cloak while warped, maybe give it another penalty of reducing your WARP speed aswell, i don't know. Maybe a 0.75 tracking penalty / missile speed penalty or something along those lines...
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San Rintu
Asshats and Alcoholics
Minuit.
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Posted - 2008.03.02 01:33:00 -
[84]
Further addressing the 'Back Ops' Cloak Idea:
Make it so you can warp cloaked as we all want the Black Ops to be a Black Ops and not a seriously expensive lol target.
Ensure that the base PG/Tf use of the Black Ops cloak is a great deal higher than the Covops Cloak, so that the fitting bonus when utilised upon a Black Ops mean that if you fit the Black Ops cloak, you will not have sufficient space for a full rack of Neuts/BS Weapons.
This would give the individual Black Ops pilot the choice of either warping around cloaked or fitting more offensive modules; hence balancing the ship.
Other than that /signed
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Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.02 02:22:00 -
[85]
Originally by: San Rintu
Further addressing the 'Back Ops' Cloak Idea:
Make it so you can warp cloaked as we all want the Black Ops to be a Black Ops and not a seriously expensive lol target.
Ensure that the base PG/Tf use of the Black Ops cloak is a great deal higher than the Covops Cloak, so that the fitting bonus when utilised upon a Black Ops mean that if you fit the Black Ops cloak, you will not have sufficient space for a full rack of Neuts/BS Weapons.
This would give the individual Black Ops pilot the choice of either warping around cloaked or fitting more offensive modules; hence balancing the ship.
Other than that /signed
Already mentioned the warping while cloaked bit  but otherwise yeah, make it have a penalty covops cloak doesn't with the only bonus of a covops cloak - warp while cloaked.
Maybe even a 15-sec no lock timer you can bring down by 1 second per level of "Black ops cloaking device" or whatever you wanna call the skill for it.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.03.03 13:46:00 -
[86]
It does seem weird in terms of progression that you have the covert ops frigate, recon cruiser, and then the black ops battleship, and only the latter can't use the covert ops cloak. I'd point out I can't fly one, but looking at the role doesn't require you actually fly it.
Given that in terms of stealth & role we have two different roles for the stealth/recon-type ships (covert ops vs stealth bomber, force recon vs combat recon), perhaps what we need is black ops vs... something else, and balance the roles appropriately. The Marauder class would seem to be this counterpart, though perhaps needing some benefit to cloaking, so to make Black Ops genuinely about stealth and not about combat would seem reasonable.
Some seem to have a weird idea of what reconnaissance is about. In an ideal world, the enemy never knows you're there, else they know what you're reconning. If on the other hand, Black Ops is a souped up stealth bomber, then it can match the stealth bomber in role, but frankly, are you going to do that with a cloaking ship that takes a week to turn around? SBs are limited enough in role without spending 500 million on a larger equivalent. Ambushes already occur in EVE, they're called gatecamps; I don't really see the Black Ops adding to this.
I think the big thing that is missing on this ship is a well defined role or purpose. It can't fly with and manage force recon ships, and it's a poor choice for fighting other battleships. Given the lack of interest shown in terms of purchases, it implies no-one has thought of a suitable use for them yet?
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"If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
Killerhound
Caldari
Stardust Heavy Industries
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.03.05 12:27:00 -
[87]
sounds good Soul.
Has anybody ever tried to fit a Widow ... Do I need to say something else? ...
Well the role of this ship is somekind of "Heavy Bomber" while you can fit large weapons and cloak similar to a stealth bomber. But stop wait you need a lot of time to lock small things. So are you going to shoot on a BS?
only way I see this ship to be usefull: Kill people ratting in there raven around the belts hidden in 0.0 deep in own country.
Once hostile killed, go hunt on you own :)
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SoulOfAnnihilation
Amarr
Four Rings
Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.09 18:35:00 -
[88]
bump
SoulOfAnnihilation
Four Rings
PvP Wing
PA FC |
Damien Arcuri
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:06:00 -
[89]
Someone on the interviews for this tourney said they were looking at making a battleship-hull flagship. I think the blackops BS might be modified to fill that role:
1. Change the name to something like "covert fleet command."
2. Reduce turret/missile slots by 1, and take away turret/launcher/drone related bonuses, to nerf damage output.
3. Give them command bonuses, and let them use 3 warfare links by default.
... and the main suggestions in this thread...
4. Let them use covops cloaks.
5. Give them a large fuel bay or a fuel reduction bonus, and a jump range boost.
I think with changes like that, people would give up on gank-fitting them, and fit them more like command ships. They'd be somewhere between a command ship and a carrier, except focusing on stealth and logistics rather than having BS-class damage.
If blackops ships could fight effectively, jump small gangs, and use covops cloaks, they might be overpowered no matter how much effort is put into balancing them. Nerfing their damage while providing real stealth and allowing them to effectively jump and command a small gang might be a good niche for them to fill.
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MurderousPsychoBitch
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Posted - 2008.03.10 08:59:00 -
[90]
With cov ops cloak: fit some hybrids, move into range (noone can see you), pwn everybody, when somebody gets close, warp and cloak. Impossible to catch solo pwn mobile.
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