Welcome to supercaps online.

The little Drakes that couldn't?

Nice job !

1. PVE fit, ******* awesome cause you can't PVP with cap rigs

2. Titan lock time

3. AFK much?

4. How the **** did it point you? See above, cause no ??? needed and PROFIT! ain't telling why he couldn't just warp away.

5. lulz WTF you doing ? Bait? AFK terrible rating fit? Alliance kill for lulz ? Seems so, cause the second one is the same 3 titan pilots and 4 SC setting of remote ECM to get on the killmail, more then enough time to warp out if you are quick on the draw while they are locking (even with sensor boosters, unless you were running a MWD = almost instant while aligning ship could get popped while spaming that WTZ).

So basically the complaint is three titans on a killmail in a big fleetfight? Color me unimpressed.

But hey, at least you give the Goon infowar campaign against "stuff that need a nerf so Goons can win EVE" a new thread to post in.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12435592 The rest of it.

I do not think that is the complaint just the solo example.

I think it is the fact that pretty much every one of the 54 Drake kills has just Supers on it.

Ah yes. The perma MWD Drake doctrine with dual cap rigs I see. You know, a perma MWDing drake with 2 LSE II and a CDFE I rig has a signature radius of 2097 metres, which by comparison is over 5 times bigger than a Megathron and only slightly less than a dreadnought.

XL guns have a signature resolution of 1000 metres. This means the titans will track these Drakes approximately twice as good as EFT tells you.

You can still color me unimpressed.

Ah yes. The perma MWD Drake doctrine with dual cap rigs I see. You know, a perma MWDing drake with 2 LSE II and a CDFE I rig has a signature radius of 2097 metres, which by comparison is over 5 times bigger than a Megathron and only slightly less than a dreadnought.

XL guns have a signature resolution of 1000 metres. This means the titans will track these Drakes approximately twice as good as EFT tells you.

You can still color me unimpressed.

What about this "Einstein" ? :D

You think too big

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12435783

You think too big

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12435783

You think too big

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12435783

Yeah. XL guns hitting a target which is about 50% bigger than a mega is clearly broken. With its tank I suspect all it needed to to was sneeze at it.

Yeah. XL guns hitting a target which is about 50% bigger than a mega is clearly broken. With its tank I suspect all it needed to to was sneeze at it.

Dreadnaught class guns hitting a ship a battleship cannot is fine

Its perfectly reasonable for XL Blasters to hit a Light Dictor though...

ROFL. Baltec, are you trying to convince me to believe that a battelship will have a harder time than a titan hitting a MWDing interdictor?

How is this info war campaign of yours working out for you?

Ever tried to knock one out of the sky with Large blasters?

Actually the EVE physics engine doesnt really care what you call the target. Every ship is just a sphere with a certain radius as far as it is concerned. And yes, a 1000m sigres gun hitting a 600+ m sigrad target is indeed working as intended.

So again, the only ships that wont get alpha'ed by titans are frigates. So the titan blob is invincible.


This is good for EVE how?

Using a MWD in the vincinity of big stuff that will instapop you if they can hit you is not very smart. Are you advocating we reduce battle parametres in EVE to tank and dps only perhaps? So you dont have to think and you know - fly smartly? I'm sure that would suit the Goon blob perfectly.

Using a MWD in the vincinity of big stuff that will instapop you if they can hit you is not very smart. Are you advocating we reduce battle parametres in EVE to tank and dps only perhaps? So you dont have to think and you know - fly smartly? I'm sure that would suit the Goon blob perfectly.

dictors always get locked up immediately upon arrival. The order probably went out to lock up all dictors, and one titan just got a lucky shot on the eris. It doesn't matter how fast or slow he was going if he is moving directly toward or away, it's gonna hit no matter how big the gun. With 20 titans there trying to shoot it, one is bound to hit. Also, that person is on his own KM because he launched a bubble and then tried to warp out. Obviously he was tackling them and then got locked and poofed. what cap pilot doesn't try to kill the dictors? KM's only tell half the story, and the rest nobody can confirm.

As opposed to;

dump titans, everything dies?

Tactics and fleet comp are useless vs such things. There are no ships with enough firepower to confront them without getting alphaed at such a rate that the DPS will become meaningless very quickly. It doesnt matter if you are MWDing or not, titans will apha battleships and battlescruisers, while the ships that cant get alpha'ed will get torn apart by enemy subcaps and lack the firepower required to bring down a titan anyway.

The only counter to titans are more titans and because of the speed at which they are being built and the lack of deaths the titan blob will only get bigger with time. We are now playing titans online.

I've flown enough light dictors to know I'll probably die in fights like these. Its just the way it is. Drop bubble, mwd out to get free of the bubble so u can at least save your pod. Happned more than once.

But the point to threads like these is: No amount of killmails will prove that I, You, Baltec or anyone else are right or wrong objectively, because there are multiple possible explanations as to why stuff happens in EVE. The EVE combat system have so many parametres and factors that affect the end result, that killmails are virtually unable to prove anything.

Only way to do it is to jump on SISI and conduct carefully controlled experiments in multiple iterations.

As opposed to;

dump titans, everything dies?

Tactics and fleet comp are useless vs such things. There are no ships with enough firepower to confront them without getting alphaed at such a rate that the DPS will become meaningless very quickly. It doesnt matter if you are MWDing or not, titans will apha battleships and battlescruisers, while the ships that cant get alpha'ed will get torn apart by enemy subcaps and lack the firepower required to bring down a titan anyway.

The only counter to titans are more titans and because of the speed at which they are being built and the lack of deaths the titan blob will only get bigger with time. We are now playing titans online.

[quote=Reilly Duvolle]
Excellent Backpedal Space Friend. Great use of the 'Religion Cop Out' (Prove there isn't, and until you do, I obviously must be right).

introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.

Titans are not OP unless used en-masse. So the question is right, but the prefferred Goon solution (death to all supercaps) is wrong. Its not the ships that are the problem, its how they are used. Besides, in a mature game like EVE, you you have to evolve with the players, adding stuff, not taking stuff away. So, instead of getting rid of the supers, introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.

Which creates unnecessary complexity and allows problems to crop up in billions of other places.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say the whole game would be better off without the massive ships, or if the ships were in a supportive role, and not the front-line role.

Or nerf titans so that they cannot kill subcaps while making them fantastic cap killers and fleet boosters. They dont have to be deathstars to be useful to a fleet.

Its gone too far for that. That could have been an option in 2008 when dominion came along. Now, there are just to many of them.

In that case, you are ALSO saying that this games would be better without its veterans. Personally I disagree. Leaving people with nothing to train for would see an exodus of the very same people which this game relies on to produce its signature content.

Titans are not OP unless used en-masse. So the question is right, but the prefferred Goon solution (death to all supercaps) is wrong. Its not the ships that are the problem, its how they are used. Besides, in a mature game like EVE, you you have to evolve with the players, adding stuff, not taking stuff away. So, instead of getting rid of the supers, introduce new capital ships that can create a truly rock-paper-scissors environment for capital ships.

Who cares what kind of numbers there are if they fall into a more balanced roll of fleet support and become vulnerable to subcaps?

More of them will die for a start.

You are a Goon lobbyist, which by definition means that you will hold the point of view most beneficial to the in-game Goon interests. And presently my friend, those interests include a game preferably without titans at all, but secondary titans that have been nerfed into oblivion.

Who cares? I guess most titan owners care? And titan heavy alliances? I mean how many fleetboosters would a fleet need exactly?

Its just too many of them, and they want to play too.

Now I dont think you are ever going to agree with me on this Baltec, because we are not discussing the same thing.

I am discussing game design. You are not. You are a Goon lobbyist, which by definition means that you will hold the point of view most beneficial to the in-game Goon interests. And presently my friend, those interests include a game preferably without titans at all, but secondary titans that have been nerfed into oblivion.

I want fights that dont require the most titans to win. I want new aliances taking 0.0 on and winning which they currently cant do. I want the 99% of pilots who are out in 0.0 to matter not the 1% in god ships.

Even if I was not in goons I would be saying this because this hurts the game. The overpowered supercaps resulted in a stagnation of 0.0 for a year and a half untill they got nerfed. The exact same is going to happen if titans are not delt with as the 0.0 powerblocks hide behind their cynojammers and new alliances are faced with an impossible task.

The titan pilots trained for a FOTM and like all the FOTM before they will get nerfed and only they will cry about it. Perhaps the funds used on titan construction can be used to fund ships that everyone can use and we will get real fights based on clever tactics and fleet setups again.

If this was the case, I wonder why any solution to add to the game rather that detract from it is the wrong solution?

Well you dont need to answer that, because I know

Killmails dont prove anything. EVER.

The new battlecruisers have been embraced by all and are a fantastic addition to the game as they are balanced. Adding new things should not stop, but sometimes things do need to be taken away to improve the game. We do not want titans removed from the game just their ability to wipe out everything before them.

I would be more inclined to trust your sincerity if you or any other goon/test member talking in these threads werent ONLY talking about changes that would be a massive benefit to your alliances in-game.

Personally I dont think that is a coincidence. So forgive me when I call bullshit

I would be more inclined to trust your sincerity if you or any other goon/test member talking in these threads werent ONLY talking about changes that would be a massive benefit to your alliances in-game.

Personally I dont think that is a coincidence. So forgive me when I call bullshit

I would be more inclined to trust your sincerity if you or any other goon/test member talking in these threads werent ONLY talking about changes that would be a massive benefit to your alliances in-game.

Personally I dont think that is a coincidence. So forgive me when I call bullshit

Its not backpedaling. You can take virtually any killmail in EVE, think abouth it for about 30 seconds and be able to come up with 5 diffrent scenarios for what happend exactly. Killmails dont prove anything. EVER.

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12435592

hue hue hue :)

So after nerf you need 3 not one titan to kill poor drake :) ? Nice job !

This benefits everyone.

I dont care if this ends up resulting in the destruction of our space and us getting turfed into lowsec by some scrub alliance.

venal was a thorn in their side they could never conquor.

The current titan war waggons would make all of what we managed in the past impossible if they were around back then. We would not have held the space and the fantasticly talented FCs I flew with over the years would not have had their legondary victories.

Your lack of common sense makes me want to drown kittens

LOL. No Baltec it doesnt. Specifically it doesn't benefit your old arch enemies Raiden, it doesnt benefit most drone russian alliances and it certainly does not benefit PL. What does these alliances have in common? Oh yes. They are your enemies in-game right now.

If the alliances you listed should fall because titans got their god mode removed then it would be because they were not worthy of holding their space and out manovered by smarter people using better tactics.

Or - in your case - a bigger blob

That worked well for BoB, MC, ASCN, TRI, RA, RA again and the NC.. ..oh wai...

Well it has worked out for You hasnt it? That is, if it wasnt for those pesky titans ofc.

The image in my signature is /thread for this topic.

http://i.imgur.com/CY6x4.jpg

Because goons started out with everything you see today...

Using blob tactics has been a Goon signature tactic for as long as it has existed. You are not alone in this ofc, but this is your main modus operandi and has always been. Right now titans > blob, and you dont like it, which is fine.

What I dont like is a solution that will just remove titan and free the goon blob. I'd like to see a more balanced way forward. And introducing a true rock-paper-scissors capital game available as low entry (like dreads/carriers) for everybody I think is much better than just freeing the blob.

Using blob tactics has been a Goon signature tactic for as long as it has existed. You are not alone in this ofc, but this is your main modus operandi and has always been. Right now titans > blob, and you dont like it, which is fine.

What I dont like is a solution that will just remove titan and free the goon blob. I'd like to see a more balanced way forward. And introducing a true rock-paper-scissors capital game available as low entry (like dreads/carriers) for everybody I think is much better than just freeing the blob.

You do realise that all of the powers you listed are fully capable of just as large a blob and have been doing so for a few months now right?

Using blob tactics has been a Goon signature tactic for as long as it has existed. You are not alone in this ofc, but this is your main modus operandi and has always been. Right now titans > blob, and you dont like it, which is fine.

What I dont like is a solution that will just remove titan and free the goon blob. I'd like to see a more balanced way forward. And introducing a true rock-paper-scissors capital game available as low entry (like dreads/carriers) for everybody I think is much better than just freeing the blob.

Plain and simple, SuperCaps shouldn't be able to hit Sub-Capitals, with any success.

No baltec. Because if the last few months had been blob vs blob, we wouldnt have this dicsussion would we?

After the internal civil war within DRF and WN essentially knocked out of the game at least for the time beeing, Deklein enjoys numerical superiority. The key to maintaining this superiority is however to maintain pilot morale which essentially means maintaining some sense of progress. And right now, you meet titans at an increasing rate. Which is precisely why these threads pops up on the foums at an equally increasing rate.

I know this guy that loves to roam in lowsec in his HAC, but he is ******* annoyed when ge get dropped by multiple battlehsips. He once told me that a big ass gun on a battleship shouldnt be able to hit a lowly cruiser.

Basically, This game has only 4 gun classes. XL for capitals (including titans), L for battleships, M for BC/Cruisers and S for destroyers and frigates.

So, if we take this proposal and implement it in the physics engine, there should really be no downward efficiency between classes. Or do you mean it should only affect XL guns because you happen to not fly a capital?

Yeah thats a retorical question.

I have seen it. They are all capable of such fleets, we fought one for 3 hours on friday before they dumped the titan blob on us when we started to win which endend the fight almost instantly.

20 HAC would kill those battleships, the same cannot be said of titans

Now Now. You cant really blame the game for the goon FC not having the balls to respond in kind. Because he could have, the blob wasnt that large. Or perhaps the tech moon wasnt deemed strategically important enough to risk your titans? Whic of course is fair enough.

Thats not a design problem though.

Yes, lets jump our titan fleet into the single largest collection of titans over a tech moon and get them all killed

Exactly. There is a strategic imbalance between you and your enemies. You percive that you cannot do something about it directly, so you resort to the indirect approach and lobby for their removal or gutting as combat ships on the forums. This will of course also affect your own titans, but since you have less of them, it will hit your enemies harder.

Any proposal that adress the problem of titan blob in any other way that removal or nerfing of titans gets rejected, because your true agenda isnt really game design after all, its in-game power.

Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?

So, if we take this proposal and implement it in the physics engine, there should really be no downward efficiency between classes. Or do you mean it should only affect XL guns because you happen to not fly a capital?

Yeah thats a retorical question.

I'm not against Titans being the be-all-end-all answer to Capital Ship destruction, but if you honestly think 20 battleships can pose a threat to a Titan by themselves before the Titan can kill them, your ******* ******** (neccessary emphasis applied).

You are avoiding the question again. Why do you reject any other solution to the problem of the titan blob than nerfing/gutting of titans as combat ships?

Tell that to PL

Shock horror, the biggest abusers of the curret problem who utterly rely upon them would suffer the most. God forbid they have to actually use their heads and come up with a better tactic than "dump the titans on them".

If the alliances you listed should fall because titans got their god mode removed then it would be because they were not worthy of holding their space and out manovered by smarter people using better tactics.

Tell that to PL

A few dozen battleships will absolutely wipe the floor with a single titan, full stop. Try doing that with 20 other titans on the field and the situation suddenly changes.

Tell me, how would anyone else with even fewer resources than goons fight them?

Lol, or something awful would just dump more people into a system than they have in a single fight. Not using tatics at all.

No it is you.

I have given ample reasons as to why titans raping everything is bad for EVE. New capitals are not the answer because smaller alliances would still be at an impassable barrier to 0.0. The only answer is to nerf the titans themselves and chane their roll into a fleet flagship roll. As was intended.

Now answer me, how does a body with fewer resources than goons combat titan blobs?

The NC had much larger fleets and still the fell.

Nobody. I think I have said 2 or 3 times in this thread allready that the titans used en-mass is a problem. What we disagree on is the solution.

Your "enable small alliances to conquer nullsec" argument is pretty cute comming from a goon. The goons have played this power game with skill for the last 6 years. Im sure you havent suddenly developed an acute considreation for the small unproven highsec alliance wanting to conquer null on its own lol. So forgive me once more when I call bullshit.

Titans aren't the problem, blobs of titans are. One titans can do much thats why they use them as blob and eventualy one of them has to hit.

Now answer my question.

maybe if i smash my teeth out i'll get a hamster.

Tracking fit titans have significantly better tracking than Alphafleet Maelstroms.

I did, actually. You need to actually read answers before hitting the reply button.

So there we have it. The only acceptable solution (because it will help the little guy wink wink) is incidentally the same solution that will strip the Goons enemies of their power to stop the goon blob advancing.

I think that sums it up.

Lies dont get true even if they get repeated you know.

For your benefit, i link you the EVE tracking formula so you can have a look yourself. Enjoy.

I see you have no answer to counter titans then. Therefore I must assume you are either clueless or an alt of one of the titan heavy blocks.

I have the solution. I have told you twice. That you refuse to acknowledge the wisdom of actually building on the game instead of retracting from it just proves what you really are. You see what you want to see. And right now, the only solution you see is the one that will benefit Goonswarm the most.

Coinicidence? I dont think so. Throughout this thread you have acted exactly lke I said you would in the beginning, refusing to see any other solution that the one that would benefit Goons. Which is the very definition of a lobbyist.

Sorry fellas, but discussing game design with lobbyist for interest groups is pretty moot anyways. So I'll call it a day. Have fun.