Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: [one page] |
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:32:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:34:19 This was taken from the public section of the Sturmgrenadier website and reposted on our forums, but I thought the rest of the community would enjoy this well-written and (relatively) accurate account of what happened.
Quote: This is from my perspective as a member of the RISE alliance. I started as just a grunt, rose to a small fleet FC and then during the height of the invasion as a member of the 'homeguard' committee... I was, however, never on the 'ruling council' of RISE so take this information as that from someone who was there but not FULLY aware of all the political ins-and-outs of the situation.
I write this because a few members of our community have asked about it at one point or another. No, I don't intend to cross-post it to CAOD as that forum is a cesspool and not worth bothering with other than to read for a laugh or two now and then.
I joined RISE in June of '07 having recently left TSO when they decided to return to empire space. I joined the Sturmgrenadier corporation as I had previously been a member of Sturm in Planetside and knew many of it's members and had a lot of respect for how the syndicate does things.
My arrival in the RHG cluster was uneventful... I joined the corp, liquidated a few assets and set my clone to RIT station and podded myself to 0.0. Bought a new ship for ratting/pvp (hurricane) in and waited for my T2 gear, etc, to be carrier jumped out to RIT for me by Sturm's awesome logistics team. Within a week I had all of my T2 ships and gear in station and was fully up to speed. Things were good now. RA was still a harassing presence but things were otherwise fairly quiet. Shortly after I joined sturm we destroyed the last RA POS in the constellation and had established over 20 POS in KW-OAM (KOS space).
For about 2 weeks we put tremendous pressure on KOS and intel reports as well as our leaderships estimates put it at about 2, maybe 3 weeks until we had full control of KW-OAM and could move our offensive further into Teneferis. At this point KOS hired KIA to rescue them and KIA fulfilled that contract in spades. RISE was quickly pushed back onto the defensive as KIA fleets came into system during our EU timezones relentlessly forcing us to largely abandon our offensive. KOS failed to fully capitalize on this and remove our towers but our offensive was effectively stalled during the 3 weeks they held KIA under contract against us. At the end of this many of our pilots, especially in the EU timezone, were incapable of continuing a PVP offensive until they'd rebuilt isk reserves to support extended PVP ops so a lot of carebearing went on. Finally the orders went out to resume offensives and for about a week we really put the pressure back on KOS. Unfortunately they had help on the way...
Within about a week to a week and a half somewhere in the neighborhood of 9-10 alliances started knocking on RISE's front door daily. TCF, RA, Goons, CA, Frege, Freelancers, Invictus, KOS, AAA, IAC and a few other fleets I can't remember the alliances they were for would show up. This again put a halt to our offensive as we were unable to maintain steady pressure in KW. We would put a pos into reinforced at night (US TZ) only to have it come out during EU TZ while KOS's friends kept our EU players tied up defending RIT. This continued for about a month until RA/AAA/TCF pushed hard enough for several days to allow KOS to come into our space and spam towers in GHZ and 5P. Unfortunately for them this didn't last long as we rallied and eventually destroyed all 45 towers KOS had established.
Sturmgrenadier tried to go back on the offensive but at this point leadership at the alliance level must have been pretty divided as none of the other corps put any significant presence into the KW theatre. Eventually sturmgrenadier had to recall troops home to help defend against renewed pressure from PL & Goonswarm.
---
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:33:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:33:30
Quote: None of this would have caused the downfall of RISE if not for some catastrophic failures on the part of RISE logistics team. During the various conflicts some serious errors were made.
* P8 (our front door) had only 8 moons. For some unknown reason the RISE council never saw fit to anchor more than 1 tower in P8 which allowed goonswarm, during the initial KOS invasion with RA/TCF/AAA to anchor 5 towers and seize sov in P8. * Not once, but THREE times towers were taken down in systems that evidently had no other towers claiming sovereignty. Breaking sov3 in 3 key systems, 2 of which were in our home cluster, allowing PL and others to ninja-anchor towers unbeknownst to our command, giving their camping forces easy access to resupply and a safe haven to run to whenever we would form a big enough gang to challenge them. * Home Guard command had little to no authority to issue orders. We would make plans only to have them scrapped by FC's who weren't even privvy to them. There was no central leader in RISE at all and the 'council' members pretty much couldn't agree on anything. * PL established an ongoing cloaked nano-gang in system, preventing RISE members from being able to easily make isk to replace ship losses with. Also brought a halt to most ratting/mining in the area severely hampering RISE's ability to generate positive cashflow. This caused an elimination of the 'ship reimbursement' program that had previously allowed RISE to quickly replace lost ships for it's pilots. While this didn't really affect the more hard-core pvp pilots in the alliance it did put an almost immediate stop to the more care-bear oriented pilots dotting up, thus severely depleting fleet sizes when called. * RISE council CONTINUED to insist that we send the vast majority of our pilots off to BOB fleets to assist with bob offensives/defenses even though we had a serious threat at home. PL's gangs were deemed 'no threat' to sovereignty by the council completely ignoring the fact that they were completely eliminating the manufacturing teams from doing their jobs. T2 and T1 equipment began to get harder and harder to obtain in RHG. Some corporations, like Sturmgrenadier, had good enough empire logistics in place to continue easy access to T2 and T1 gear but most of the other corporations really started to be affected like this and we started to slowly lose smaller corporations members as they became frustrated with the situation. * ISS abandoned a station system without notifying anyone in the GBC, thus allowing TCF to gain a station system within capital jump range of RHG
After a couple weeks homeguard council managed to get some key fleet battles with PL showing members that PL could be beaten (or at least chased off) if people would "just x up and get in gang". On two occasions we were able to bloody their noses and drive them out of the constellation long enough to allow folks to get out and make isk and mine much needed minerals. This began a brief resurgence in activity amongst members, etc. Fleet sizes grew and, while we couldn't keep RHG clear 23/7 we did manage to get some timezones clear of hostiles so that mining operations and other isk making could go on so pilots could rebuild PVP ship stocks.
---
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:34:00 -
[3]
Quote: Then came the 'great backstabbing speach of '07' from our trusted friend and 'ally' BoB... Yaay, one of BoB's fleet commanders had asked RISE to muster a fleet for an undisclosed op. We gathered our forces and had 70 ships waiting for BOB in system when Yaay arrived. A huge feat for us considering all that had gone on previously and among the largest of the fleets assembled by RISE, all eager and ready to go out and wreck some havok upon our, and bob's, enemies. Instead of a combat operation, however... we got a speech... a speech which singlehandedly completely undid all the morale work that the HG command had done over the past weeks to recoup our fleet strengths. After that speech we never mustered more than 45 pilots in fleet again. Thanks Yaay! Big help you were. Single-handedly killed our rebound.
After that things just kind of slowly went downhill. I resigned from homeguard after several more fleet ops that we scheduled and planned never happened because BoB never showed up to fill their role in the plan. There were several plans to knock out the P8 Goonswarm pos's that required bob capital assistance, which was promised, then when the time came they were 'otherwise busy elsewhere and unavailable'. Meanwhile goonswarm was slowly ticking down to sov3 in P8... at which time we knew the end would be close as goons would be able to jump-bridge tremendous fleets right to our doorsteps....
Once P8 ticked to Sov3 Goons had anywhere between 100 and 200 pilots in the RHG cluster and P8 system. Posts on CAOD were comical at this point with Goons claiming that only 25 PL had locked down the RHG cluster entirely when it was, in fact, 25 PL/goons in RIT and approximately 25-30 more throughout the rest of the RIT cluster with an additional 25 or so sitting in P8 ready to come assist. Anytime we mustered enough pilots to chase PL out of our core regions several hundred enemy ships would show up in P8 via jump bridge to shut us back down again. No help was provided by BoB and no help was ever sent by ISS (who we had repeatedly assisted against FREGE and CA and Goons previously). Only DR, of all our 'allies' in the GBC ever showed up to assist but, unfortunately, they didn't have the numbers to truely be effective at the times we needed it.
About this time the leadership in RISE council became totaly divided issuing conflicting orders on a daily basis. One day the order went out to 'go make isk outside of RHG'. The next day orders were given to some corps to 'go back to empire to make isk' and on another day we were told to form up in AZN then 25s then DR space... at this point our PVP forces were so split up, and out of RHG that we actually had a hard time getting back to RHG to defend. Getting pilots to rally up at any one location became a logistical nightmare due to this and things just went south fast from there. Eventually TCF started anchoring POS in 5p. RA/Goons/whomever started anchoring pos in GHZ and once Sov4 was threatened the orders came down to begin evacuation of the systems. BoB did FINALLY come through at this point and helped us clear the systems. At this point we actually had an opportunity. We had secured RHG again briefly and could have counterspammed towers and quickly reset the sov counters back to full keeping sov4 intact and holding RHG even longer. BoB and RISE council chose not to and the evacuation continued.
I stayed with RISE long enough to help evacuate everyone to the Aridia region where PL persued and continued to harass pilots. Pilots continued to be blockheaded and lose ships for no damn good reason by flying alone in battleships/battlecruisers/haulers through lowsec space where PL could get easy kills. Finally everyone was moved and staging in aridia for a move into fountain began. PVP operations began again but numbers were still dismal with many pilots refusing to x up because they needed to make isk to replace losses.
---
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:36:00 -
[4]
reserved for actual content ---
|

Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:45:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Graalum on 01/02/2008 04:46:08 so the eye orf terror or whatever that **** was went into an 8 moon system? that sucks. * small pos and you might have had a chance.
Oh and lol at the 75 man fleet only to get a speech.
|

Miss Domination
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:46:00 -
[6]
Hi Dungar.
PEOPLE OF RISE.....
bwahahaha _________________
Eagerly awaiting the phoenix called String of Sisters |

Re Mi
Caldari Funshine Unlimited
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Miss Domination Hi Dungar.
PEOPLE OF RISE.....
bwahahaha
Impressive response. Your wit shines like the noon day sun and the verve and humor is cathartic. I long for the day when all posts can be filled with such lovely prose and prophetic wisdom.
Funshine Unlimited - An Industrial Services Corporation |

Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:55:00 -
[8]
I locked down aridia solo, ask dungar he know's he'll back me up
|

Value Added
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:55:00 -
[9]
They didn't listen!
|

Ackaroth
D00M. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 04:58:00 -
[10]
Interesting read. ___________________
Add total value of open buy and sell orders to "Orders" tab of wallet.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=626498 |

Firkragg
Blue Labs Knights Of the Southerncross
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:00:00 -
[11]
I love the fact that they forgot to mention they gained a foothold in kw via bob help and that when bob was busy in omist thier assault entirely stopped.
Same way they claim that they cleared all the towers in RIT when in fact it was bob prescence that caused the main problems there (not to mention rit was hosted on a toaster that lagged with 3 guys in the constellation)
Im not trying to smack RISE though. I had a great time when they were around. It was fighting them which first got me into small gang and solo pvp. I also fet sorry for them when the back stabbing speech came out.
I wish any of the rise members who i encountered good luck on future endeavours.
p.s If anyone here knows Magic Crisp tell him he was our favourite rise member 
|

Narciss Sevar
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Graalum Edited by: Graalum on 01/02/2008 04:46:08 so the eye orf terror or whatever that **** was went into an 8 moon system? that sucks. * small pos and you might have had a chance.
Oh and lol at the 75 man fleet only to get a speech.
More like 45 man fleet, but whatever.
|

BoB sucks
Burning Bush Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:03:00 -
[13]
yep
|

Aeryn Davenport
Claflin Industries
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:30:00 -
[14]
Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
Why exactly should we care about an extensive diatribe about RISE's failures? Have other alliances not made mistakes, been defeated, and eventually disbanded as a result?
Will we get a similar post on KOS when their destruction at the hands of AAA is complete? How about the fact that KW was primarily defended by coalition forces OTHER than KOS? Ultimately the fight for KW was like the war in Korea or Afghanistan. Two major powers, BoB & the Coalition, using two insignificant powers, RISE & KOS, as fronts for their conflict.
Is it surprising that RISE could not take KW alone with 10+ alliances defending it? Is KOS pretending they were the main defenders? Conveniently forgetting the regular fleets of Goonswarm and AAA, as well as many other alliances, that came in to defend their territory? Let's not forget they also had to hire KIA.
|

The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:40:00 -
[15]
Quote: Then came the 'great backstabbing speach of '07' from our trusted friend and 'ally' BoB... Yaay, one of BoB's fleet commanders had asked RISE to muster a fleet for an undisclosed op. We gathered our forces and had 70 ships waiting for BOB in system when Yaay arrived. A huge feat for us considering all that had gone on previously and among the largest of the fleets assembled by RISE, all eager and ready to go out and wreck some havok upon our, and bob's, enemies. Instead of a combat operation, however... we got a speech... a speech which singlehandedly completely undid all the morale work that the HG command had done over the past weeks to recoup our fleet strengths. After that speech we never mustered more than 45 pilots in fleet again. Thanks Yaay! Big help you were. Single-handedly killed our rebound.
well worth 6b a month in rent good sir you simply fail to appreciate bobs munificence
|

Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:51:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned, and then had a thread on their forums congratulating each other about it, funny thing was, we were kinda running out of steam at that point, half of us had wandered off to low sec to pirate or empire to suicide gank, after they done what they did, we had the entire alliance back on their doorstep, bubbled every station and gate in RHG, and locked them into their tomb for about 5 weeks until RSF capitals came along several weeks later to do their thing.
that being said, personally i think most of the RISE guys were really nice people, its just their rotten apples annoyed us to the point where we were going to kill them no matter what the cost was.
ps: most of those annoying RISE clowns are now in BNC or DICE :V
|

Lazuran
Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 05:55:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
While the logistics team gets a lot of the blame, I kind of wonder how much of the failure was their fault - not putting up enough POSs along with their other problems sound more like a lack of leadership than someone not doing enough hauling. Can any former RISE members comment on this?
That's almost funny, since RISE once lost XZH to YouWhat despite a huge effort at maintaining POSes. They were outspammed 42-39 or something crazy like that when YouWhat anchored 10+ POSes overnight.
POS spamming is more boring than POS warfare is more boring than fleet fights, but in the end people prefer taking systems with POS spamming, because it's way too cheap.
|

Narciss Sevar
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:00:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
Why exactly should we care about an extensive diatribe about RISE's failures? Have other alliances not made mistakes, been defeated, and eventually disbanded as a result?
Will we get a similar post on KOS when their destruction at the hands of AAA is complete? How about the fact that KW was primarily defended by coalition forces OTHER than KOS? Ultimately the fight for KW was like the war in Korea or Afghanistan. Two major powers, BoB & the Coalition, using two insignificant powers, RISE & KOS, as fronts for their conflict.
Is it surprising that RISE could not take KW alone with 10+ alliances defending it? Is KOS pretending they were the main defenders? Conveniently forgetting the regular fleets of Goonswarm and AAA, as well as many other alliances, that came in to defend their territory? Let's not forget they also had to hire KIA.
ahaha look at that dillusional ex rise guy
|

Onchas Erivvia
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:02:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
--- "LOG OFF, LOG OFF, EVERYONE LOG THE F--- OFF NOW" - Suas, GoonSwarm Fleet Commander Sunday January 27, 2008 during a fleet fight with BoB in system QY8, approximately 21:55 EVT |

TrevorReznik
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:03:00 -
[20]
who was RISE?
|

Attak
Trioptimum The Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:24:00 -
[21]
Sturmgrenadier is awesome because they played Planetside, and Planetside was awesome. Mad props for that.
That being said, the guy who wrote that post joined them after RISE had become BoB pets, so really the point of view is a little off. Ask most people who were playing before RISE existed, and they'll tell you what went wrong was them moving to Feyth in the first place.
|

Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:28:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
Because RISE smacked up a storm, then did almost nothing to stop their slow death by mass starvation.
|

Straife
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Straife on 01/02/2008 06:42:35 Actually as a member of KOS defending KW- against Rise during this "fun" time in my eve career, there were actually only 3 ppl that defended KW- against Rise/ISS (along with the random drunk goons). The main defense was their failure to be able to take down posses out of their main TZ.
Oh and had -A- ever entered KW- it was to kill off KOS, not defend it, as -A- was never blue to KOS for more than about 6 hours during a fight in C3 against bob caps.
|

Hubris
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 06:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
proof or STFU. list anything broken on the EULA. Oh sorry you can't, funny little bobbit. -
|

Brmble
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 07:17:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
actually: if they hadn't petitioned PL would have lost interest (or so they want to make you believe :tinfoil:)
I bolded the relevant part in Gneeznow's post ~ no not believin in urself ~ |

CobraBytez
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 07:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
If you count RISE as NORAD's successor, they were one of GoonSwarm's oldest (and least competent) enemy. It felt good to finally send them back to empire (where they belonged).
|

Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 07:18:00 -
[27]
Wow, things so boring in delve you have to make a rise post?
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |

Scavok
UA Industry Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 07:22:00 -
[28]
Claiming credit for P8- awesomeness ITT. I tried to get it done for awhile and I was excited as hell when Sesfan hopped on board. It kind of ****ed me off when just the pressure from PL and the psychological effect of what was inevitably coming killed them before we could get any decent fights.
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport
Is it surprising that RISE could not take KW alone with 10+ alliances defending it? Is KOS pretending they were the main defenders? Conveniently forgetting the regular fleets of Goonswarm and AAA, as well as many other alliances, that came in to defend their territory? Let's not forget they also had to hire KIA.
Goonswarm only came by for fun when you had an active fleet or vulnerable capitals. There was nothing else to kill in our primetime. We never repped a POS, it wasn't because we didn't care about KW, it was just never in danger and had no reason to burn our players out while busy in our own POS war with BoB.
Considering AAA has never had KOS positive, it's pretty safe to assume the same.
|

Onchas Erivvia
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 07:46:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Hubris Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
proof or STFU. list anything broken on the EULA. Oh sorry you can't, funny little bobbit.
You are the most tragically accurate named individual in the history of eve.
--- "LOG OFF, LOG OFF, EVERYONE LOG THE F--- OFF NOW" - Suas, GoonSwarm Fleet Commander Sunday January 27, 2008 during a fleet fight with BoB in system QY8, approximately 21:55 EVT |

Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 07:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Kylegar on 01/02/2008 07:50:51
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:40:24 I cut off the last paragraph of his post where he eventually leaves, but that is unimportant to the main story. The only inaccuracy I'd like to point out is
Quote: Posts on CAOD were comical at this point with Goons claiming that only 25 PL had locked down the RHG cluster entirely when it was, in fact, 25 PL/goons in RIT and approximately 25-30 more throughout the rest of the RIT cluster with an additional 25 or so sitting in P8 ready to come assist.
Those people were AFK at POSs - almost the entire time, everyone we had active was camping gates, stations, or doing trips around the constellation. But that is minor.
While the logistics team gets a lot of the blame, I kind of wonder how much of the failure was their fault - not putting up enough POSs along with their other problems sound more like a lack of leadership than someone not doing enough hauling. Can any former RISE members comment on this?
In my opinion, and as a former RISE member, I think the whole seige of RIT/GHZ/and 5p just went to show how a democratic system doesnt work in a time of extream pressure. We just didnt have a leader who made decisions during Augest/September. The council, like that was pointed out by the wall of text, Issued conflicting orders every day. It was to the point where I would log on, see 4 different things to do, say "Screw It" and log off.
IMO, A single leader would have saved RISE, just noone stepped up to tell the council to shut up and get along. There was alot of good people in RISE, and ALOT of people that were totally ****ed at the council.
Oh, and I can tell you of atleast 20 people in RISE that mass petitioned spammed to get Farscape Unbanned. There was more support (not on our forums) to get him unbanned than there was to get him banned. --
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
|

Flow Befort
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 08:16:00 -
[31]
what was the reason farscape got banned again?
|

arghy steelwill
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 08:24:00 -
[32]
I know why i was so ****ed at RISE, they were dead before they ever came to RIT. I remember slugging it day in and day out with BoB after LV collapsed, i remember finally pushing them back and looking up to see all you useless pets smacking like you've actually accomplished something to deserve the best space in EVE. Without BoBs supercap umbrella you fell, mittani always brings up RISE because you were the most textbook intel fight hes ever fought.
You sat in space you dident deserve while constantly smacking even when PL constantly slaughtered you- you suffered the fate that all pets eventually feel, you dident take the space you cant defend it. I remember you ****ed me off so badly i had stock piled over 20 fleet ships in o-g waiting for the eye of terror so i could always have a ship to smash you back into empire. The great part was i got there only to shoot your POS's and hear mittani read your forums to us over TS while we completely pillaged your space and even stole from your refugee convoys. It seems while the foot sloggers were fighting the great war in 9-9 blackops/PL had all the fun smashing your insides so when we finally found you we found nothing but a brittle shell with rotten insides.
I have no history with RISE but for some reason i hated you the most out of all the pets, the thought of crushing you kept me going through the super cap bowling of 9-9.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |

Sultry Black
Minmatar Black Hearts
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 08:32:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Sultry Black on 01/02/2008 08:33:28
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned, and then had a thread on their forums congratulating each other about it, funny thing was, we were kinda running out of steam at that point, half of us had wandered off to low sec to pirate or empire to suicide gank, after they done what they did, we had the entire alliance back on their doorstep, bubbled every station and gate in RHG, and locked them into their tomb for about 5 weeks until RSF capitals came along several weeks later to do their thing.
that being said, personally i think most of the RISE guys were really nice people, its just their rotten apples annoyed us to the point where we were going to kill them no matter what the cost was.
ps: most of those annoying RISE clowns are now in BNC or DICE :V
I heard your animosity not only stemmed from the fact that RISE fought back, but stayed in RIT and forced your poor selves to stay there too. You wanted to do something else because it was BORING to have to sit around in nanophoons cloaked all the time so you didn't get popped before you could run away. The antics you are now up to in Pr- Additionally RISE laughed in your face the day you tried to cut a deal with them to leave RIT if they paid you 1 Billion isk. They had no respect for you. Nothing like scorn..hell hath no fury, eh?
Beneficium accipere libertatem est vendere.
|

duckmonster
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 08:54:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Sultry Black Edited by: Sultry Black on 01/02/2008 08:33:28
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned, and then had a thread on their forums congratulating each other about it, funny thing was, we were kinda running out of steam at that point, half of us had wandered off to low sec to pirate or empire to suicide gank, after they done what they did, we had the entire alliance back on their doorstep, bubbled every station and gate in RHG, and locked them into their tomb for about 5 weeks until RSF capitals came along several weeks later to do their thing.
that being said, personally i think most of the RISE guys were really nice people, its just their rotten apples annoyed us to the point where we were going to kill them no matter what the cost was.
ps: most of those annoying RISE clowns are now in BNC or DICE :V
I heard your animosity not only stemmed from the fact that RISE fought back, but stayed in RIT and forced your poor selves to stay there too. You wanted to do something else because it was BORING to have to sit around in nanophoons cloaked all the time so you didn't get popped before you could run away. The antics you are now up to in Pr- Additionally RISE laughed in your face the day you tried to cut a deal with them to leave RIT if they paid you 1 Billion isk. They had no respect for you. Nothing like scorn..hell hath no fury, eh?
Beneficium accipere libertatem est vendere.
How on earth does cowering in a station for a month with between 10-25 active PL/Goons in the entire region constitute "fighting back".
Remember , unlike most of CAOD, I was there, so you can't lie to me, and you definately can't lie to yourself.
And for the record, the petition was a PL member who got banned for bumping someone who WASNT in a bubble with a nano-mach. If I recall correctly the ban was promptly reversed but I may be wrong. If Im wrong there is no justice in this game. -----------
|

Machine HD
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 09:07:00 -
[35]
I was in Rise during the goon war.The only the majority of the smack talk was from the goons.Sturmgrenadier's policy was no talking in local.No exceptions. I dont think any alliance our size could have held the RIT cluster against the numbers that where put against us. I was always treated with respect by BoB. I'll close my account before I fly with goonswarm.
|

Ituralde
The Illuminati. Triumvirate.
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 09:24:00 -
[36]
Goes to show really what happens when an alliance relies too much on a big brother. It's great to have allies, it's cool to rent space, but even if you are doing both of the above you need to be strong as an individual alliance as well.
Granted, RISE was going to die most likely. Against the RSF an alliance the size of RISE really didn't have much of a chance.
Reading that testimony though really does imply to me they could have - and should have - held out much longer and put up a much better fight. If this testimony is accurate then the alliance was dead long before they evacuated. Long before the BOB FC gave his speech. If anyone from an another alliance making a speech can essentially ruin you then something is seriously wrong with your organization.
Anyhow, RISE is hardly the first and certainly won't be the last alliance that has let things slide due to relying on big-name allies at the expense of their own development. _____________________________ Fear is the mind-killer.
|

Desiderata Fabian
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 09:37:00 -
[37]
Here is that BoB pep-talk.
http://gs.girsbrain.org/bob_peptalk_rise.html
|

Junkie Beverage
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 09:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Machine HD I was always treated with respect by BoB.
they have nothing but scorn for you or you would be under the bob ticker right now
you paid them 6b per month for the privilege of living in the rit cluster and for their protection which you never got
you should have listened to roy of ca
|

oniplE
Blue.
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 10:00:00 -
[39]
I was in rise and they died because the leadership was absolutely horrible. They gave conflicting "orders", the orders themselfs were horrible. When you confronted them with these conflicting and horrible orders, they would blame someone else.
And unlike popular belief, rise wasnt killed by 25 PL, they did lock down the system though. The few times there was a counter op, due to the spy infestation a blob twice the size of our gang would drop into the system and the op was canceled before it even began. When that happened a few times, a part of the leadership ordered us out of core, another part said return to empire. Ofcourse the huge amount of carebears in rise didnt think twice and returned to empire, its pretty frustrating when people dont sign up for a gang due to "I want to fight, but im in empire doing missions right now", it doesnt get more demoralizing than that. x |

Flow Befort
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 10:23:00 -
[40]
Does FNLN own the RISE alliance name yet?
|

Himo Amasacia
Minmatar Fade to Black Inc Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 10:23:00 -
[41]
It wasn't Yaay that did that peptalk, it was Luckyduck.. unless there was another pep talk that BOB gave then that was even worse than that one. Is that even possible?
"Constant practice devoted to one subject often outdoes both intelligence and skill." -Cicero |

Le Cardinal
ECP Rogues The Reckoning.
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:06:00 -
[42]
Interesting read for one who hasnt been involved in this part. Remember that this story is written by someone who werent involved in the decision making process and only write this from his pov. Maybe this was the general understanding of the situation from most of Rise members.
Smacking this is low, it provided an interesting read on caod for once. Instead of a smackfest it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story in a respectfull manner. Everyone has their pov, from the position they are in a conflict, and usually the winner is the gloating part. Its been proven in the past, and its being proven on caod every single day.
|

Cippalippus Primus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:18:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Cippalippus Primus on 01/02/2008 11:20:11
Originally by: Le Cardinal Interesting read for one who hasnt been involved in this part. Remember that this story is written by someone who werent involved in the decision making process and only write this from his pov. Maybe this was the general understanding of the situation from most of Rise members.
Smacking this is low, it provided an interesting read on caod for once. Instead of a smackfest it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story in a respectfull manner. Everyone has their pov, from the position they are in a conflict, and usually the winner is the gloating part. Its been proven in the past, and its being proven on caod every single day.
I will try to tell the story from a Goon point of view. RISE was attacked for several reasons; their support to BoB was the main reason, and their position of buffer alliance between us and Delve. One thing that however upped the hostility towards RISE was their status of paying renters coupled with their perceived feeling of self entitlement for the space they were holding. In other words, their side of the story simply had no factual basis.
It only became worse when RISE lost what will of fight they had, and when they began talking about "10 months of heroic resistance in the RIT triangle". They did indeed hold the RIT triangle for 10 months, but lost it as soon as the POS warfare began.
In the end, they became just another name in the list of alliances that didn't fight to conquer their space and didn't fight to hold it. -clp
|

Shadoo
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:29:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Le Cardinal Instead of a smackfest it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story in a respectfull manner.
I'll resist the urge to say "this is COAD and thus it's useless to do what you suggest", but hell... It's DT so I'll give it a go.
I can't say anything to the events before Pandemic's arrival, I don't know anything about the RISE attack on KW- and so forth. But I'll cover our side once we did arrive on the theatre.
PL had been situated in the North with a main objective to fight the BoB friendly alliances in the region in an effort to help MM/RZR/etc to secure the region. Things started to look good in the North, thus we were requested to redeploy to the South to help demoralize the enemy in the region (all our little alliance can really do tbh besides to be a pain in the rear end).
We chose to base out of south-eastern Stain as access to Feyth was easy and we could do roaming gangs all the way up to Delve if needed. First week or so was mainly dominated by small-scale fighting with Stain Empire and mainly shooting at the Stain Officers in belts (record was 3 officers in one day I believe).
Once logistics were complete, our orders were to start roaming into Feyth with ISS and RISE as specific targets. We mainly roamed in the US TZ as at the time RISE could easily have a camp of 40+ with multiple capitals at gate in RIT. Busting through those camps in Command Ships was always interesting and we took some losses usually.
Given the difficulty of busting through RISE camps, which they would get up by the time our gang was 13j out (their scout network was impressive) -- we decided to try a different strategy. Long range, speed fitted HACs like Muninn's now got a cloak as part of the standard fit and Recons was the most requested ship type in our gangs.
Thou people nowadays associate PL with "cloaking nanogang" -- up to this point in time, we had actually never done cloaked ship ops. We did use speed to our advantage however, thou not sure how fast you can call an Astarte no matter how many polys you got on it. The first few days of deploying and remaining in the RHG proved interesting as RISE had obviously had practice before with cloaked gangs (RA+GF).
We established connections with the GoonFleet BlackOps counterparts quickly and becan to work together really well. GF BO was used to recon warfare targeting ratters and straglers. We took a slightly more aggressive approach since we had HACs in our gang and started to take on small to medium gangs with recons and cloaking HACs using bait and range to our advantage.
The attack on sov KOS tried couldn't have come at a worse time for PL. We were starting to spin up heavily with the Alliance Tournament, with at least one 2h practice session planned each evening during all of this on the test server. We tried our best to be there to support the attack, but resuplying after losses became difficult and people were starting to be a bit burned out with both sitting on test server for hours and shooting POSes with fleet BSes.
Then of course, BoB came with a fleet and GoonFleet SpecOps came down as well. Laggy fights have never been our thing and few 200+ laggy fights in fleet ships pushed peoples will to fight in RHG further, instead going back to some low sec relaxation instead. BoB+RISE did push the offensive back at the time, GF was not ready to take a serious attempt at RHG yet. KOS posses being badly timed was an additional blow to the rushed attack on RHG and as tournament kicked off -- Pandemic withdrew from the theathre leaving only our small POS behind with an SMA full of ships.
During the tournament, there were hardly any PL in the triangle. Not sure if RISE realized, but we simply did not have enough people while everyone in the tourney team was in empire with their pirate implant clones. PL concentrated on ratting, high sec piracy and tournament practice + actual matches for the week of the tournament.
(continued shortly)
|

Ohne
Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:42:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Onchas Erivvia
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned
Yeeess...it was the petitioners who were to blame. Damn petitioners. Damn damn damn petitioners. If only they hadn't petitioned, your players would never have violated the EULA.
<shakes fist at petitioners>
You have no idea what the whole fuzz was about do you ?
|

Necro EvilZombie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:46:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 01/02/2008 11:47:26 Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 01/02/2008 11:47:15 Edited by: Necro EvilZombie on 01/02/2008 11:47:03 I remember people making cap stable Geddons and going afk for 2hours while their ship sat outside of the station hitting the services. Funny stuff. As for PLs fascination with killing RISE was the fact that we griefed an alliance out of their space without putting up POSs to over take them, that was all goon. --------------------------------------------------------------
. |

Shadoo
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:48:00 -
[47]
After tourney nonsense and few days to recover, we were asked to redeploy to the area for a new offensive.
RISE had bounced back obviously during our time away. They managed to gather larger fleets again on short notice on every TZ, while before the BoB intervention their numbers were starting to go down.
This obviously encouraged PL people to quickly come back from where ever they were at the time. Good medium scale fights with targets roaming on every TZ was enough to get bigger than ever participation from PL to the RHG const. Our SMA tower had never been hit during our time away and had now been stocked full of fleet BS + HACs and obviously allowed people to refit easily and stage carriers for ammo/loot drops.
There were few key battles I recall during the time we returned where we managed to win the engagements outnumbered, sometimes thanks to luck and usually thanks to spy network. On every major engagement our FCs had a direct convo with a person in RISE fleets. We knew when they were active, where they were going to hit and what range from the fleet they were going to come out to. I do believe on some occasion the Cov Ops they were warping to was in fact, our spy. We knew who had been called primary and thus once their fleet warped in, the primary warped off and a dictor bubbled their fleet while we caught straglers.
We were ready to move to the next stage, which was to hit station services in order to force carriers out to rep them and thus give us a chance to use our Machariels to bump stuff off. I can't recall exactly where Farscape Hw's banning goes into in the timeline.
I was the cov ops and FC in charge at the time. RISE was using logistics drones to rep their cynojammer POS modules by going out of the shields, assigning rep drones and going back into shields. Everytime we showed up to kill the drones, they creeped few guys out of shields to shoot cruise missiles/heavy missiles and quickly go back inside the shields while missiles were still in flight.
This particular Raven pilot was being pretty careless with how he did this to the point of being predictable. We got the Mach in, it cloaked 70km off where the Raven used to pop his head out of. The one time he did this, Farscape decloaked, accelerated to about 10km/s and hit the raven just as it was 90% inside the shields. The read-end of the raven got hit, and he quickly became the Raven that did 6000m/s promptly flying from one side of Large Tower shields all the way to the other side and out where 2 rapiers decloaked to web him. He was quickly roasted and about 20 minutes after Farscape was banned due to exploiting POS shield mechanics and "POS Bowling".
This event gave us a quick boost indeed, since our spy network copy&pasted EXACTLY what was said on RISE forums AND the corporation forums. It was disgusting read, I can understand people get upset by bumping, but it is a game after all and the objective of the game should not be "to get him banned whatever way you can". Luckily senior GMs rightly reversed the decision the next working day (after weekend).
After that event, we went all out and started to deploy large bubbles on every gate and every station undock. We must have lost in the region on 20-30 Large Bubbles, since they kept dying everytime RISE drew enough people into gang to push us off and before we got enough people back from AFK to stop them. But for every bubble -- they lost ships. And that kept us going.
With RISE numbers severely dwindling, we becan to hit station services repeatedly until eventually -- they were never repaired. At that time, it was not uncommon to see maybe 10 RISE pilots in the whole RHG constellation.
The end was rather uneventful, the moment Goonfleet deployed to the area (besides BlackOps who we had now grown to work very closely with <3) -- Pandemic pulled out. GF+TCF+RA took the constellation in short order, with no real fights as far as I can recall.
So there...
|

Necro EvilZombie
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 11:54:00 -
[48]
remember when the FCs told RISE not to engage with you in local Shadoo? that was gold --------------------------------------------------------------
. |

Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 12:51:00 -
[49]
Having only played the game for a few months when I joined RISE I was obviously not involved with any of the decision making. Interesting read and filled in some things I wasn't aware of.
I can tell you for sure that towards the end the market had almost nothing to fit ships out with. I remember taking out my crappy Caracal sometimes without even all 5 launcher slots filled. Considering the fact I was mainly flying t1 Cruisers and BC with low skills for them, my inability to properly fit my ships didn't affect the war much, but I'm sure many other pilots had similar issues.
Towards the end we had a few fights where 5-15 of us would group up and engage (usually PL) the enemy in mostly well fit nano or t2 ships. Most of our ships were poorly fit and couldn't do much to hurt or slow the enemy down. They'd hit us in strafing runs picking us off 1 at a time.
Before X ing up we knew we would likely lose dozens of ships for every kill, but the general attitude I saw was "**** it, it's just a game, let's have fun going down shooting". We weren't going to win at that point and some already left to save what assets they still had, but I had a good time until the evac into Fountain.
From my point of view there was some smack in local (most from goons) but really not much overall on either side.
The best part about RISE was that I rarely heard any disrespect coming from fellow corp/alliance members even when the ship was clearly going down. Most of the pilots remained really cool about things and this made RISE the most enjoyable alliance I've flown with yet. Some play just to win. If I like the people I'm playing the game with and feel like I'm getting my money worths out of EVE each month, I'm happy.
PL didn't take RISE out with 25 man gangs. They held the field after we we're broke, split up and disorganized. PL was very effective though and had a lot of competent pilots. Most of us remember the good fights we had and look forward to more in the future.
Whether or not we "deserved" the space we had seems like a strange concept to me. EVE is not about entitlement, some small low "skill" alliances have friends and are in a position where they hold space. Other alliances have greater numbers, each with much more "skill" and can be in a position where they lose space. RISE held space and then lost it because they didn't have enough members, "skill", and friends in the area to help, just like every other alliance that has also lost space (including the Goons, BoB, RA and just about everyone else).
We rented the space, couldn't hold it, and lost it. That's how EVE works, we could have been a much smaller alliance with worse skilled members and held the space in different circumstances. Chest beating over a numbers game is laughable, but I guess it's what makes people feel good inside, so go for it.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |

HatfulOfHollow
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 12:54:00 -
[50]
GF Black Ops <3 PL
Together forever             
|

The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 13:34:00 -
[51]
rise is fascinating because:
1. cascades are fascinating 2. they really thought they were amazing elite pvp'ers holding off the hordes, rather than renters imported from outer ring who paid 6b a month to bob, so when the time came we had been watching them chestbeat for long time and obliterating them was all the more interesting 3. council governments give the best chatlogs, the infighting at the council level was amazing to watch and offered a lot of entertainment for goons 4. all that misery trapped in a one-exit constellation its like a m&m with suffering on the inside instead of chocolate :3
|

Antipathy
GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 13:37:00 -
[52]
Sturmgrenadier picked the wrong side of the coin and it's a real shame. :( I am the prettiest girl in the world - Cortes
/me flutters eyelashes
|

Factor Benz
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 13:39:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Machine HD I was in Rise during the goon war.The only the majority of the smack talk was from the goons.Sturmgrenadier's policy was no talking in local.No exceptions. I dont think any alliance our size could have held the RIT cluster against the numbers that where put against us. I was always treated with respect by BoB. I'll close my account before I fly with goonswarm.
You wouldn't be asked to nor welcome. You continue to exhibit the self entitlement which contributed greatly to the crushing of RISE and it's hilarious.
|

Deros
Minmatar Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 13:54:00 -
[54]
Shadoo's summary covers it all to be honest, not much more to add.
D
|

Divus
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 13:57:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Divus on 01/02/2008 13:57:46
do any former-rise-now-bob pilots have RIT-DTja-vus in Pr- these days? 
-------------------------------------------------
|

SunglassesInSpace
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 14:45:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sultry Black Edited by: Sultry Black on 01/02/2008 08:33:28
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Aeryn Davenport Never really understood the bizarre fascination PL and Goonswarm had (and apparently still have) with RISE.
our fascination with RISE stems from the the fact that they petitioned us for absolutely everything they could, to the point where they got a PL member perma-banned, and then had a thread on their forums congratulating each other about it, funny thing was, we were kinda running out of steam at that point, half of us had wandered off to low sec to pirate or empire to suicide gank, after they done what they did, we had the entire alliance back on their doorstep, bubbled every station and gate in RHG, and locked them into their tomb for about 5 weeks until RSF capitals came along several weeks later to do their thing.
that being said, personally i think most of the RISE guys were really nice people, its just their rotten apples annoyed us to the point where we were going to kill them no matter what the cost was.
ps: most of those annoying RISE clowns are now in BNC or DICE :V
I heard your animosity not only stemmed from the fact that RISE fought back, but stayed in RIT and forced your poor selves to stay there too. You wanted to do something else because it was BORING to have to sit around in nanophoons cloaked all the time so you didn't get popped before you could run away. The antics you are now up to in Pr- Additionally RISE laughed in your face the day you tried to cut a deal with them to leave RIT if they paid you 1 Billion isk. They had no respect for you. Nothing like scorn..hell hath no fury, eh?
Beneficium accipere libertatem est vendere.
Are you really that stupid or just trolling?
|

Onchas Erivvia
Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 14:55:00 -
[57]
Originally by: SunglassesInSpace Are you really that stupid or just trolling?
I have a copyright on that line --- "LOG OFF, LOG OFF, EVERYONE LOG THE F--- OFF NOW" - Suas, GoonSwarm Fleet Commander Sunday January 27, 2008 during a fleet fight with BoB in system QY6-RK, approximately 21:55 EVT |

Machine HD
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:05:00 -
[58]
I meant no disrespect to Goonswarm or PL. PL was very effective and we didn't have taticts to deal with them.The spying part was demoralizing more than anything.I had ships stolen out of poses in KW by "corp members".Any other game I have played this would be concidered cheating.In Eve its part of the game.What are Goonswarm going to do though once BOB is crushed.One must have a enemy to fight.
|

K'reemy G'udness
The Greater Goon GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Machine HD I meant no disrespect to Goonswarm or PL. PL was very effective and we didn't have taticts to deal with them.The spying part was demoralizing more than anything.I had ships stolen out of poses in KW by "corp members".Any other game I have played this would be concidered cheating.In Eve its part of the game.What are Goonswarm going to do though once BOB is crushed.One must have a enemy to fight.
Angels!
---
|

Value Added
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Machine HD What are Goonswarm going to do though once BOB is crushed.One must have a enemy to fight.
Reset Groon.
|

Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: The Mittani rise is fascinating because:
1. cascades are fascinating 2. they really thought they were amazing elite pvp'ers holding off the hordes, rather than renters imported from outer ring who paid 6b a month to bob, so when the time came we had been watching them chestbeat for long time and obliterating them was all the more interesting 3. council governments give the best chatlogs, the infighting at the council level was amazing to watch and offered a lot of entertainment for goons 4. all that misery trapped in a one-exit constellation its like a m&m with suffering on the inside instead of chocolate :3
<3
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |

Jaffur
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 15:56:00 -
[62]
Dungar is the worst poaster
|

Fafer
Most Wanted INC G00DFELLAS
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:12:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Shadoo
There were few key battles I recall during the time we returned where we managed to win the engagements outnumbered, sometimes thanks to luck and usually thanks to spy network. On every major engagement our FCs had a direct convo with a person in RISE fleets. We knew when they were active, where they were going to hit and what range from the fleet they were going to come out to.
I was member of Rise from start and in whole its lifetime PL spies were worst thing for me. Everything we've done, you reacted immediately, thus giving us no chance whatsoever. This in-gang/teamspeak spy was so obvious to us that many people just gave up on fighting you (at least i did). It really was no fun for us.
and btw, if you are interested, every member of my ex-corp was paying 13M isk per month for rent.
|

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:34:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Talon Scorpio on 01/02/2008 16:45:22
Originally by: Shadoo After tourney nonsense and few days to recover, we were asked to redeploy to the area for a new offensive.
RISE had bounced back obviously during our time away. They managed to gather larger fleets again on short notice on every TZ, while before the BoB intervention their numbers were starting to go down. After that event, we went all out and started to deploy large bubbles on every gate and every station undock. We must have lost in the region on 20-30 Large Bubbles, since they kept dying everytime RISE drew enough people into gang to push us off and before we got enough people back from AFK to stop them. But for every bubble -- they lost ships. And that kept us going.
With RISE numbers severely dwindling, we becan to hit station services repeatedly until eventually -- they were never repaired. At that time, it was not uncommon to see maybe 10 RISE pilots in the whole RHG constellation.
The end was rather uneventful, the moment Goonfleet deployed to the area (besides BlackOps who we had now grown to work very closely with <3) -- Pandemic pulled out. GF+TCF+RA took the constellation in short order, with no real fights as far as I can recall.
So there...
Shadoo, Interesting read, appreciate that you are simply relaying fact from your side without smack. Fair man, it seems.
There were conflicting orders at that time. Most RISE pilots left Core due to being told to LEAVE. Leadership was diffuse, nearly non-existent. Attempts to engage leadership in anything in terms of concrete plans were met with silence and waffling. Most FCs had bolted or were apathetic, one or two further derailed alliance moral by their attitudes and outspoken cries of doom. In retrospect, and I think a lot of RISE knew it at the time, we simply could not have held the space due to the strategic location of the constellation and the strong animosity many alliances held for BoB. We held out as long as we could as a barrier to hostile enroachment for a time, we knew we could not succeed, but the idea was to buy some time. 6 Billion a month was frequently waived. We held out as long as we could, a few of us were there on the day RISE informally drew it's last breath. There were good people in the alliance, and yes, some of us have moved on to further bump heads with you. I am resigned to being the focus of a great deal of spite. I rarely answer back to it in a public way. RISE had a policy of no smack in local. I didn't see a lot of RISE smacking back goons or PL. Sorry some of you are so bitter. Generosity is the luxury of the victor and the silent acknowledgement of failure with dignity is the option of the loser.
|

Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:37:00 -
[65]
The quoted post has many inaccuracies - which were part of the general delusions of the RISE membership.
The member in question joined a month after RISE began their "invasion" of Tenef. I was in the allied fleet the responded to RISE's call for help to begin this invasion. RISE's leadership asked their allies to muster all the help that they could to help lock down KW- at 0300. BoB had a 100+ BS gang clear the system. D-R, CoRM, EXE and a couple of the smaller local allies locked the system down with another 100+ ships. And then we waited 4 hours for RISE to actually log on and say "oops, we told our members 0700". The freighters that were supposed help them spam towers never did log on and they only ended up dropping 2 or 3 towers that night. An 8-hour op with 200 allied pilots was wasted by RISE's leadership.
Unfortunately, intra-alliance politics shortly after this led my corp to join RISE instead of leaving 0.0.
Quote: Unfortunately for them this didn't last long as we rallied and eventually destroyed all 45 towers KOS had established.
Again, as with nearly all of RISE leadership and membership, they seem to have overlooked the daily BoB capfleets that came in and knocked down the hostile towers. RISE was too scared to undock a cap ship in any system - even WITH a cynojammer.
The only dread op initiated by RISE in this entire time was when our CEO logged on drunk, said "screw this" and rolled our corp dreads out. RISE FC's spent the entire night yelling at him for doing it. They spent their time chasing ghosts around the constellation while the RISE grunts laughed at them and listened to our CEO's drunk lecture on cap op proceedures. We knocked down two towers in 2 hours - 2 more than RISE had managed on their own in the previous 2 days. The next day one of the FC's started a thread on RISE's boards criticising our CEO and immediately had responses from the RISE grunts saying how good it was to see RISE caps in action and wondering why the other FC's were to gutless to try it.
Quote: Sturmgrenadier tried to go back on the offensive but at this point leadership at the alliance level must have been pretty divided as none of the other corps put any significant presence into the KW theatre. Eventually sturmgrenadier had to recall troops home to help defend against renewed pressure from PL & Goonswarm.
While Sturm was off in KW- (mostly sitting in POSes) the rest of RISE was sitting in RIT staring at cloaked goons and PL and trying to figure out how to handle the threat to our home systems instead of wasting time and ISK in KW-. Nevermind the number of RISE FC's who seemed to think that hari-kari charges were a great way of fighting and that a BC was a "heavy" combatant. Even when a fleet did form, there were rarely any BS's and most of those were not fitted properly.
Quote: * Home Guard command had little to no authority to issue orders.
What Home Guard Command? Never heard of it (and I was a corp director).
Quote: ...because BoB never showed up to fill their role in the plan.
This is blatantly false. BoB responded to every request for help, even after a TS spy (that RISE did nothing to try to catch) led the combined fleet into a trap. BoB stopped showing up when RISE stopped showing up. RISE called for help and 20 pilots joined gang to meet 100 BoB pilots ... if RISE wasn't going to fight for its space why should BoB? CoRM, DFC and EXE continued flying into RISE space alongside BoB even when they had hostiles in their own systems because RISE was an ally but RISE couldn't be bothered to fight for it's own space and spent more time moaning about how bad their allies were than they did fighting.
[cont]
|

Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:42:00 -
[66]
I don't know the history behind Yaay's speach. Our corp had already decided that RISE was too flawed to live - even without the external pressure - and had moved out.
About the time that we were going to advise RISE that we were leaving, they remembered that they'd forgotten to vote on our permanent membership (14-day trial period) - but this was 3 months after joined and that they'd forgotten to give our directors access to the alliance council discussions. One of them came and asked me why we never participated in the discussions and seemed embarrassed when I told him we didn't know anything about them and had no access to that part of their forum.
In the closing, we met many good people in RISE and still speak with many of them. We met many very bad FC's and we refused to fly with them. There were many people who were working hard to support the alliance but without any central direction.
In the end, RISE can't blame anybody but their own leadership for what happened to them.
Eph.
|

Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:50:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Those people were AFK at POSs - almost the entire time, everyone we had active was camping gates, stations, or doing trips around the constellation. But that is minor.
This is s spurious argument that all proponents of AFK cloakers make. It doesn't matter if the cloaker is afk or not. 30 afk cloaked hostiles in system is still 30 hostiles. 60 hostiles across the constellation, most cloaked, is till 60 hostiles. You can't assume that they are AFK. You have to assume that they are active.
So it wasn't "20" PL pilots shutting down the constellation. It was 40-60 on-line goons (and friends) and at least another 30-80 logged off goons with 2-3 MS's in p8- (and RISE leaderships's inability to muster any response to them).
Prime example: we baited a disco-domi in a belt one night and 15 "AFK" goons warped into the belt to get on the kill. Unfortunately, we didn't have enough points to hold them all through the stabs and only got 1 kill while saving the bait.
Eph.
|

Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:56:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Flow Befort what was the reason farscape got banned again?
POS bowling.
|

Lina Jakiri
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 16:59:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
Originally by: Flow Befort what was the reason farscape got banned again?
POS bowling.
No, he wasn't pos bowling. As it's pretty hard to do that in a Machariel.
Bumping is what he was doing.
|

Doal
Caldari Carbide Industries
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:25:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Doal on 01/02/2008 17:26:34
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
The only dread op initiated by RISE in this entire time was when our CEO logged on drunk, said "screw this" and rolled our corp dreads out. RISE FC's spent the entire night yelling at him for doing it. They spent their time chasing ghosts around the constellation while the RISE grunts laughed at them and listened to our CEO's drunk lecture on cap op proceedures. We knocked down two towers in 2 hours - 2 more than RISE had managed on their own in the previous 2 days. The next day one of the FC's started a thread on RISE's boards criticising our CEO and immediately had responses from the RISE grunts saying how good it was to see RISE caps in action and wondering why the other FC's were to gutless to try it.
As POS bashing ops go, that was the highlight of the RISE efforts in the RIT triangle. 
Anyone who showed any sort of initiative was berated for risking too much. It happened time and again. We had fleet ops where the 'FC' had to consult with 5-10 other shadow FCs before making a decision. In some of those ops, there were more red lights on TS than green ones. Most of us who quit dotting up every time the call came out did it because we knew we'd be sitting at the same POS for 1-2 hours, then stand down when the FC council decided it was too risky to actually do anything.
RISE leadership was too weak and vascillating to accomplish anything. The council could never agree on much of anything, and different factions within RISE would go off and issue conflicting orders. RISE was to base out of allies' stations in Fountain and get back to fun PvP ops (large and small) and avoid POS warfare and sovereignty. No sooner had that decision been announced to the rank and file, than RISE decided to take a station in Fountain for it's very own. Of course, we all know what happened. RISE took the station, put up towers, then lost it to BRUCE almost immediately. That was the end. RISE disbanded.
--- Doal |

Virgil Aquilis
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:29:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio Edited by: Talon Scorpio on 01/02/2008 16:46:41 Shadoo, Interesting read. There were conflicting orders at that time. Most RISE pilots left Core due to being told to LEAVE. Leadership was diffuse, nearly non-existent. Attempts to engage leadership in anything in terms of concrete plans were met with silence and waffling. Most FCs had bolted or were apathetic, one or two further derailed alliance moral by their attitudes and outspoken cries of doom. In retrospect, and I think a lot of RISE knew it at the time, we simply could not have held the space due to the strategic location of the constellation and the strong animosity many alliances held for BoB. We held out as long as we could as a barrier to hostile enroachment for a time, we knew we could not succeed, but the idea was to buy some time. 6 Billion a month was frequently waived. We held out as long as we could, a few of us were there on the day RISE informally drew it's last breath. There were good people in the alliance, and yes, some of us have moved on to further bump heads with you. I am resigned to being the focus of a great deal of spite. I rarely answer back to it in a public way. RISE had a policy of no smack in local. I didn't see a lot of RISE smacking back goons or PL. Sorry some of you are so bitter. Generosity is the luxury of the victor and the silent acknowledgement of failure with dignity is the option of the loser.
Well will you look at that, an ex-RISE person in BoB

Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
|

Victor Vision
Central Intelligence Service
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:47:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio Shadoo, Interesting read. There were conflicting orders at that time. Most RISE pilots left Core due to being told to LEAVE. Leadership was diffuse, nearly non-existent. Attempts to engage leadership in anything in terms of concrete plans were met with silence and waffling. Most FCs had bolted or were apathetic, one or two further derailed alliance moral by their attitudes and outspoken cries of doom. In retrospect, and I think a lot of RISE knew it at the time, we simply could not have held the space due to the strategic location of the constellation and the strong animosity many alliances held for BoB. We held out as long as we could as a barrier to hostile enroachment for a time, we knew we could not succeed, but the idea was to buy some time. 6 Billion a month was frequently waived. We held out as long as we could, a few of us were there on the day RISE informally drew it's last breath. There were good people in the alliance, and yes, some of us have moved on to further bump heads with you. I am resigned to being the focus of a great deal of spite. I rarely answer back to it in a public way. RISE had a policy of no smack in local. I didn't see a lot of RISE smacking back goons or PL. Sorry some of you are so bitter. Generosity is the luxury of the victor and the silent acknowledgement of failure with dignity is the option of the loser.
To me the failure of the Rise leadership was way before any of the final battles happened.
Rise moved to RIT with the intention of living there, not with the intention of being a meatshield for BoB.
As soon as Rise was in danger of becoming a disposeable meatshield for BoB, the leadership should have made plans for an emergency bail. Not out of cowardice, but out of self interest. And at very latest when it became completely clear that Rise was nothing but a meatshield anymore, the bail should have been executed.
IMHO it is pretty unwise to protect your landlord till your own death, especially if you moved to the land to gain benefit from it, and not to die there miserably.
EVE War I-The Beginning - EVE History Wiki |

Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 17:56:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Doal We had fleet ops where the 'FC' had to consult with 5-10 other shadow FCs before making a decision. In some of those ops, there were more red lights on TS than green ones.
I'd forgotten that part. Must have been a repressed memory. 
a 30-man gang with 11 command lights on. FC-by-committee we called it. Guaranteed to lead to disaster. And so many times the FC's forgot that they were chatting on command links and warped off without saying anything to the rest of the fleet.
There were a few FC's that told the rest to stfu and lead their gangs and lead them well. They tended not to be "official" RISE FC's or were low-ranking RISE FC's but they did more, fought harder and fought smarter than the "official", high-ranked, ones.
Eph.
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:32:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 18:34:08 wow you sound really angry eph
The reason there needs to be a distinction between "60 PL and goons and eighty motherships and five titans" and "20 PL and 20 afk sitting in a POS a few systems over" is because the way you phrase it, RISE was always fighting outnumbered, against the odds, holding out like some kind of martyr, when in actuality there were very few times we (we, PL, I'm not talking about blackops, Goonfleet, specops, UNL, TCF, etc) engaged with anywhere near the same numbers. Of course there was the occasional Goonfleet, UNL, TCF, or other gang that stopped by, but by and large, it was just us and a few Goonfleet members who locked your system down for months.
In fact, often when we tried to engage you, despite outnumbering us substancially, you ran, so we had to resort to baiting you. One memorable example was Farscape going "afk" in a safespot, and you guys warping your gang of 20 in to try and gank him. We had TWELVE in gang, including Farscape, and as soon as we got on grid you guys bailed.
You can wave your arms in the air and scream "this isn't true, it's not true promise!" all you want, but I still have videos of our engagements laying around. Don't pretend that the baiting was a tactic we started on our own - it was in response to your inability (or refusal) to commit to a fight. ---
|

The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio
6 Billion a month was frequently waived.
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
ps update your myspace please!
|

The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:46:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
This is blatantly false. BoB responded to every request for help, even after a TS spy (that RISE did nothing to try to catch) led the combined fleet into a trap. BoB stopped showing up when RISE stopped showing up. RISE called for help and 20 pilots joined gang to meet 100 BoB pilots ... if RISE wasn't going to fight for its space why should BoB? CoRM, DFC and EXE continued flying into RISE space alongside BoB even when they had hostiles in their own systems because RISE was an ally but RISE couldn't be bothered to fight for it's own space and spent more time moaning about how bad their allies were than they did fighting.
yeah all the threads in the council discussing withholding rent from bob because bob wasn't responding to rise at all until the final evac op (itself delayed 4 times) showed that bob was ready and willing to help rise at the drop of a hat
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:48:00 -
[77]
should have stayed with exe
or
should have listened to royofca ---
|

TWD
Evolution Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:55:00 -
[78]
This opening post of the thread posted by a coalition member looks trustworthy and not like an attempt to discredit BoB at all! |

KeratinBoy
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 18:56:00 -
[79]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Talon Scorpio
6 Billion a month was frequently waived.
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
Did you post all that chat****? I don't remember reading it. Also, any current BoB stuff you can whet our appetites with?
|

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 19:05:00 -
[80]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Talon Scorpio
6 Billion a month was frequently waived.
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
ps update your myspace please!
The whole time? Factual error. Some might call your claim an outright lie. Good day, sir.
|

Scavok
UA Industry Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 19:08:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Ephemeral Waves
This is blatantly false. BoB responded to every request for help, even after a TS spy (that RISE did nothing to try to catch) led the combined fleet into a trap.
If this was that fight in P8- on the RIT gate we did in fact have a spy, but he had nothing to do with killing your fleet. I just happened to have a covops next to where the BoB gang warped in at, I don't understand how a spy could have helped with that. But it was pretty damn funny when BoB kicked all the RISE out of their teamspeak because their egos couldn't handle the fact that they legitimately lost some ships.
|

Ephemeral Waves
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 19:24:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Ephemeral Waves on 01/02/2008 19:25:47
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth ...is because the way you phrase it, RISE was always fighting outnumbered...
Actually, if you read it again, the way I phrased it was "RISE didn't fight". 
But you're confusing two different points that I was making. PL likes to claim that they shut down the constellation with 20 ships; while there were usually over 40 cloaked hostiles in the constellation. Don't get me wrong - there were often 40+ RISE hanger queens in the constellation at the same time.
I won't deny that the RISE FC's refused to engage, even when they had superior numbers. That was yet another problem with that alliance's leadership.
Eph.
|

Ario
Caldari Pelennor Swarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 19:56:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Kylegar
IMO, A single leader would have saved RISE, just noone stepped up to tell the council to shut up and get along. There was alot of good people in RISE, and ALOT of people that were totally ****ed at the council.
I believe this is what killed RISE in the end. A democracy just doesn't work as well as a dictator does, but many of the members were against changing the fundamentals of the alliance.
RIP RISE
|

Ario
Caldari Pelennor Swarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:12:00 -
[84]
Originally by: The Mittani
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
At the end i was 90% sure there was still a spy with full access on the RISE forums.
So if anyone has anyone has any ex RISE CEO's or directors, I would be starting to do some very good background checks.
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:33:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ario
Originally by: The Mittani
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
At the end i was 90% sure there was still a spy with full access on the RISE forums.
So if anyone has anyone has any ex RISE CEO's or directors, I would be starting to do some very good background checks.
There were so many spies in RISE at the end that people stopped even caring about who knew they had characters in RISE.
It's like KOS now, I know half a dozenn people with alts in KOS and they're so heavily infiltrated KOS isn't going to have a single asset by the time they get reset. ---
|

Hrin
Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:36:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Ario
Originally by: The Mittani
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
At the end i was 90% sure there was still a spy with full access on the RISE forums.
So if anyone has anyone has any ex RISE CEO's or directors, I would be starting to do some very good background checks.
only 90%?
|

Kraven Kor
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:50:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Antipathy Sturmgrenadier picked the wrong side of the coin and it's a real shame. :(
This.
I'd still be with them. And damn, I miss them.
Lots of fine folks left SG when the move to Feyth was announced, a total flip from the then long-standing guerilla war with BoB in Aridia / Fountain. Even more left once the hammer came down from the Coalition. ----- You're not what you are, you're just what you do! So it ends with their butts and it starts with your shoe! - Awesome Car Fun Maker |

Kriger
x13 When Fat Kids Attack
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 20:51:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 01/02/2008 04:40:24 I cut off the last paragraph of his post where he eventually leaves, but that is unimportant to the main story. The only inaccuracy I'd like to point out is
Quote: Posts on CAOD were comical at this point with Goons claiming that only 25 PL had locked down the RHG cluster entirely when it was, in fact, 25 PL/goons in RIT and approximately 25-30 more throughout the rest of the RIT cluster with an additional 25 or so sitting in P8 ready to come assist.
Those people were AFK at POSs - almost the entire time, everyone we had active was camping gates, stations, or doing trips around the constellation. But that is minor.
While the logistics team gets a lot of the blame, I kind of wonder how much of the failure was their fault - not putting up enough POSs along with their other problems sound more like a lack of leadership than someone not doing enough hauling. Can any former RISE members comment on this?
lol omg what a 'look at me/PL' thread. you post this, and in the only section that somehow makes you look bad, you feel the need to comment/reply? omg fail - i though BOS were better than stunts like this. I was wrong.
.: Kriger's gfx Factory :: x13 :. |

Carin K
Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 21:31:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Carin K on 01/02/2008 21:31:58
Originally by: Kriger omg fail - i though BOS were better than stunts like this. I was wrong.
Dungar and BOS should never be put in the same sentence, goddamn goon through and through.
Dungar was never actually recruited, the GMs moved him, its true.
PS: much love dungar 
____-____
|

Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 22:00:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: Ario
At the end i was 90% sure there was still a spy with full access on the RISE forums.
So if anyone has anyone has any ex RISE CEO's or directors, I would be starting to do some very good background checks.
There were so many spies in RISE at the end that people stopped even caring about who knew they had characters in RISE.
It's like KOS now, I know half a dozenn people with alts in KOS and they're so heavily infiltrated KOS isn't going to have a single asset by the time they get reset.
Anyone with eyes knew who were the spies in the alliance, but noone with actual power did anything about it because they had given up on RISE, or they were too busy arguing with other council members to pay attention.
In the end, RISE was proof that a democratic style of leadership has a very hard time coping with the ammount of pressure that was put on by PL and Goon BO. The entire structure just broke down, and the alliance collapsed.
Oh, and noticed when PL backed off from RISE during the tournament. Infact, that was the only time I tried to get the alliance to do anything. I made many posts on the RISE forums for hitting KW- with all we have, but were constantly struck down with "We need to make ISK", and "They will be back, we need to prepair". Looking back, there was really nothing to save RISE (I know how horrible that sounds to former RISE members), and it was just a waste of text. Hopefully it gave the PL and Goon spies something to read. --
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
|

Psorion
The Nine Gates
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 22:17:00 -
[91]
So much bitterness. Hey it was fun, we all got to PewPew - Although I believe the bragging on the forums about 'Being the first to Gain Sov IV' (which was probably not accurate) seemed to **** a lot of proud people off, and caused the 'eye' to focus on RISE and RIT. Pretty nice ratting there but its all ok. They say you cant learn to win until you learn to lose.
~To all my allies - May your targets always have low traversal and may you lock first
~To my enemies - Well. Nothing to say but Praise the Lord and Pass the Ammo (Faction please)
|

Shadoo
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 22:39:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Kylegar Hopefully it gave the PL and Goon spies something to read.
To be quite honest, without the constant flow of posts leaked from Director boards + elsewhere -- most of us in PL at least (and GF BO probably too, thou they're more used to this) would have NOT had the stamina to persist in attacking the RHG constellation after engagements became infrequent.
I know it sucked for RISE to be stuck in stations/POSes, but boy did it suck for us too going 24h sometimes without any fights at all.
RE: Talon -- I recall RISE being a very respectable enemy in local. Local was 95% friendly banter apart from 3 indivituals I recall who kept on with an attitute in local as well as internal TS/boards. We certainly had no bad feelings towards any of you and enjoy running into familiar faces now in Delve .
When it was boring late at night, I actually used to come idle on RISE TS op channel listening to folks talk about old times when you first moved to RHG constellation. I knew some of you from before (Bigeasy <3) so was nice to hear about mining and Typhoons while ratting or doing complexes in RHG (all of the Angel towers + mods today anchored in Delve came from RHG).
|

Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 23:01:00 -
[93]
I still remember the op that you guys ran in the lobby of our TS...While annoying, that was comedy gold.
I have alot of respect for PL, the morale war you guys raged did more damage to RISE than anything the RSF could have done. By the time Goons were ready to take control of core, RISE was done, and had no fight left.
Oh, and one more thing. Teach your spies not to use your guyses terminology when talking about the area. I found out more spies by them saying "The Triangle" in the fleets and alliance mails/chat than anything else.  --
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
|

umizawa
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 23:06:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Kylegar I still remember the op that you guys ran in the lobby of our TS...While annoying, that was comedy gold.
I have alot of respect for PL, the morale war you guys raged did more damage to RISE than anything the RSF could have done. By the time Goons were ready to take control of core, RISE was done, and had no fight left.
Oh, and one more thing. Teach your spies not to use your guyses terminology when talking about the area. I found out more spies by them saying "The Triangle" in the fleets and alliance mails/chat than anything else. 
RISE terminology was pretty terrible.
|

Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 23:11:00 -
[95]
Originally by: umizawa
Originally by: Kylegar I still remember the op that you guys ran in the lobby of our TS...While annoying, that was comedy gold.
I have alot of respect for PL, the morale war you guys raged did more damage to RISE than anything the RSF could have done. By the time Goons were ready to take control of core, RISE was done, and had no fight left.
Oh, and one more thing. Teach your spies not to use your guyses terminology when talking about the area. I found out more spies by them saying "The Triangle" in the fleets and alliance mails/chat than anything else. 
Yea, but atleast it made sense. Core was our home systems, not "The Triangle". We dotted for ops, rather than put an x (didnt understand that, but w/e). etc.
whatever floats your boat I guess. One could say Goon terminology is terrible too.
RISE terminology was pretty terrible.
--
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
|

dan 1
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 23:22:00 -
[96]
I'm the recon in da op.
The best was seeing 15 PL\goon recons+hacs chasing down and picking off 35 RISE BS\command\hacs. Instead of stopping and defending themselves, RISE would just run and leave behind whoever got warp scrambled. gg RISE. You truly were victims.
|

WhatIsItGoodFor
Absolutely Nothin
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 23:39:00 -
[97]
Edited by: WhatIsItGoodFor on 01/02/2008 23:41:11 .
|

Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.01 23:50:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Kylegar I still remember the op that you guys ran in the lobby of our TS...While annoying, that was comedy gold.
I missed that OP coz lucious ventrue had IP banned me off rise ts, probably because i kept connecting as BNC - Coranor and giving speeches in the lobby >:-|
|

Berrik Radhok
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 00:52:00 -
[99]
I'm still banned from the FinFleet TS for spamming scatman.mp3 in the lobby :<
|

Mai Phan
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 00:58:00 -
[100]
Being one of the CEO's who's corp was with rise from Syndicate till they left Feythabolis the real reason is simple.
Any "Group" leadership will always fail in eve.
The reason? Every decision had to be debated.
Do we raise fees/taxes so we can afford more towers? 5 CEO's say yes, 6 CEO's say no.
Do we use alliance funds to get cap ships in the hands of our Cap ship pilots? 6 CEO's say yes, 7 Say No.
That's the way it went for the whole time RISE was in the south.
Every decision was a mockery of democracy. Every time isk was needed for defence, the carebears/producers in the alliance said no. Every time isk was needed to up grade station services, the pvpers said no. Every time isk was needed for anything, and there was always too many saying no.
Why did RISE fall.
Too many chiefs, not enough followers. |

Bunny Catch3r
Amarr
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 01:48:00 -
[101]
For its historical value this one's a keeper. It's unfortunate that so many colossal events are a foot but there are so few historians. Eve's Alexander may be among us even now.
|

Tobruk
Black Omega Security
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 04:04:00 -
[102]
I remember points during the tournament when PL activity was down to maybe one or two of us. RISE morale was so low that i could go afk on a station with no other PL in system and keep RISE members docked and Inactive.
Another feature that was part of our cloakingnano gangs was heavy recon presence, especially Falcons and rooks. this enabled us to jam most of the gunships in their gangs and for our fcs to pick targets with very little pressure. Throughout that time there was very little RISE did to counter our EWAR capacity. at best they could stalemate with us, grouped in a large ball and completely jammed while we waited for a straggler to pick off.
On the whole I would say their leaders just failed to conceptualize the problem for the common member. I can imagine them logging on and saying lets go and getting enough people to drive us away so to rise leadership it was probably hard to imagine what it was like for the average rise member trying to sneak out alone and inevitably getting ganked. Their humiliation often compounded their frustration. On one occasion a gang of 30 or so Rise placed a large bubble on a gate and then with about 10 pl members we came and wrecked them; we then used their bubble to kill many rise members. ----------------------------------------------
Sig removed. Elmo Pug removed my sig because he hates me
|

Aleric Vikyz
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 04:44:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Aleric Vikyz on 02/02/2008 04:44:24 One thing that had a major effect on the outcome was that by the time PL rolled in most of RISE's PvPers were just, simply, burnt out. I was and everyone I flew with was, by around August. The KW debacle wore us out, our leadership sucked and that was our wake-up call. So by the time PL rolled in, I just didn't care about RISE anymore, and basically only logged in to change skills.
When myself and others had to rescue a carrier RATTING with PL in system that was the final straw, I figured the masses of idiots could go screw themselves I wasn't going to waste my time with them anymore.
On a side note, Sturm was the only people left in KW because it was a waste of time and resources, nobody was getting any kills there, and nothing was getting accomplished. I and others went on roaming ops nightly, mostly up to C3, and we got quite a few kills (Nev, his alts, and I were regularly on the top of the killboard).
RISE was a lot of fun, but eventually all the bullcrap just pilled up until I stopped caring. I'm sure a lot of others feel similarly.
|

arghy steelwill
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 05:06:00 -
[104]
Originally by: The Mittani
Originally by: Talon Scorpio
6 Billion a month was frequently waived.
i was in rise's council forums the whole time, this didn't happen
ps update your myspace please!
Hahahah oh man this is pretty funny- why cant you guys just admit you paided 6b in rent to distract RSF while BoB ran with its tail between its legs?
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Navigator ([email protected]) |

Darc Kaahar
Boob Heads Haud Terminus
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 05:07:00 -
[105]
LETS RUN THIS **** INTO THE GROUND.
|

Darc Kaahar
Boob Heads Haud Terminus
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 05:09:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Gneeznow
Originally by: Kylegar I still remember the op that you guys ran in the lobby of our TS...While annoying, that was comedy gold.
I missed that OP coz lucious ventrue had IP banned me off rise ts, probably because i kept connecting as BNC - Coranor and giving speeches in the lobby >:-|
thats funny hahahahaha
|

Snowden Vel
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 05:26:00 -
[107]
RISE made a lot of mistakes but one of the biggest had to be the "RISE Celebrates Sov 4" thread on CAOD.
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Did BoB "plan" to lose all its space? ...if it does, its still just a detail within a successful plan
|

Kylegar
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 05:40:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Snowden Vel RISE made a lot of mistakes but one of the biggest had to be the "RISE Celebrates Sov 4" thread on CAOD.
I honestly have never thought I would agree with a goon so totally. You sir, are right. Quoted for the purest Truth. --
Originally by: CCP Ginger No sex changes.
|

Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 06:20:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Kylegar
Originally by: Snowden Vel RISE made a lot of mistakes but one of the biggest had to be the "RISE Celebrates Sov 4" thread on CAOD.
I honestly have never thought I would agree with a goon so totally. You sir, are right. Quoted for the purest Truth.
Funny how hindsight is always 20/20
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |

Rumorsky
Gallente Leet Fleet Shadows Of Supremacy
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 10:10:00 -
[110]
<3 RISE I miss it.. Great read for sure.
|

Is forporn
THE INTERNET.
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 12:45:00 -
[111]
You expect me to read that?
* smacks rise * K/D ratio
|

Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.02.02 13:06:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Setana Manoro on 02/02/2008 13:06:54
Originally by: TWD This opening post of the thread posted by a coalition member looks trustworthy and not like an attempt to discredit BoB at all!
How can you discredit BoB. To discredit, you need to be able to destroy their reputation, on which they rely. Really ? They got a meatshield, and cannon fodder for ops, and for this they didn't even have to pay a dime; they actually took 6b / month. Win-win situation either way you look at it. You guys had t20, you had the exploits used during ASCN war, you had idiotic directors diplomats that made statements such as "off-c we have them on MSN, we made the game with them" in the light of a very low scandal, that simply put gas on the fire.
Really, how can you discredit bob now ? And why do you whine about it TWD ? For the last month or so i've seen nothing but posts from BoB that seem to indicate the "we're gonna lose and we don't care / at least it's gonna be lots of pew-pew and epic", really what is a rep good for now ?
See how stupid you look ?
|

Karl Halyard
Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 00:42:00 -
[113]
I enjoyed my time in RISE, but their security was really poor. I was still moderator of the military forum for weeks after I left.
I have to admit it was fun altering Hoap's posts.
|

Sultry Black
Minmatar Black Hearts
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 00:55:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Rumorsky <3 RISE I miss it.. Great read for sure.
Yes. You missed RISE so much that a few days after you left you helped kill a RISE dread as it came out of production and then attempted to return to the alliance a few weeks later. Your answer was having your shuttle blown out from under you as you tried to flee RIT. Concise and to the point.
|

Rhamnousia
Caldari Pelennor Swarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 03:47:00 -
[115]
As a former RISE member, dont have much to say, maybe i'll do it with a quote.
"Here then let me slow it down for you so you can understand if I say it slower: Let it go dawg, it's over."
Hollaz go out to all ex-RISE. We had a good run. PL, move the frak on, i think even ppl in WoW know what you "locked down RIT" with a 25 man gang. ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor.
Forever Pelennor |

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 05:29:00 -
[116]
The absolute WORST part of being finance minister last summer was having to cut the reimbursements or not shell out ISK for supplies because a couple CEOs got sick of paying into the common wallet. I think my blood pressure used to rise more during forum posting than it did at work, especially when the rank-and-file became upset over the fallout from the alliance money issues, but did not pressure their own CEOs into doing something about the situation. The CEOs were the "Council," and some of them screwed us mightily.
There was a huge lack of leadership without a central figure to make decisions. What we had was a confederation of individual corps, some of whose CEOs decided to support the alliance when it suited them, and do their own thing when it didn't. I remember during the last weeks in Feyth, jumping out to rep station services or trying to bait a cloaker while a dozen other guys were AFK in station. Six of us outside, twice as many inside, ****ing away. And no one with the authority to say "do this or GTFO." Same thing with ops and logistics, and the interminable hour-long rallies at POSes before watching people trickle out in disgust over the inaction.
WRT smack, most of us followed the policy against talking in local. We did have a few PROFOUND a$$holes who always thought they could play by their own rules -- one of whom I will shoot any time I get the chance, for as long as I play this game -- but the smack generally came from the Goonies. The rest of the RSF bunch tended to be pretty decent. And, as much as I hated the cloaking PL dudes, I'd love to go shoot up some stuff with you. 
Kyle is right: The op in the lobby was funny as hell -- not least because it showed how sorry our opsec was. Dunno who Mitani's alt was, but half the spies I had pegged were in the same corp that recruited guys straight out of KOS. And, yeah, our corp had one, too. 
Even without the internal problems, RISE could never have stood against the wave that eventually drowned us; there were just too many. But, it is only a game, and sometimes being the underdog is more fun than being the big dog.
|

Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 09:24:00 -
[117]
Lack of leadership and communication, from the way their story goes.
|

Dalen III
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 09:31:00 -
[118]
Alot of good guys had a fake Bob hope going on. If you look back you know better. Salute Rise salute RSF, its all but a EvE lesson. Don't blame me, blame the main I'm supporting. |

coolhand
Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation
|
Posted - 2008.02.03 11:36:00 -
[119]
I think you did one of your worst mistake this night:
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/ArtCor/ritualite.avi (click right and save as)
Gate camping with a MOROS against a small TCF HAS / Pandemic legion cloaked ships is dansgerous. Your FC said we did the unthinkable. I think your mistake was to underestimate us. The second one was to rewarp your 7 carriers to save your Moros tackled.
Many of Rise pilots lost 4 ships in this fight and some of them, their NPC' ship. After a night like thath, i can undesrtand why it was difficult to fight more.
One think i learned after this battle (my first like a fleet captain) is: Confidence. If you have this from your pilots, tou can ask them everything and they'll obey. But if you chain big mistakes like your FC, in only one single fight, outch..... When confidence is lost, everything's will go down until the disaster.
Underestimate an alliance is dangerous when you don't know really its capabilitys. Remember taht for the next time. Keep the confidence. Never underestimate a guy or an alliance.
CH.
Big up to my friend, Farscape and excuse my loosy english, i am french so i cant roxx in  Bouh, powned
|

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 20:42:00 -
[120]
Hi Flax, its nice to see you about.  Just wanted to briefly comment on the whole "bob pet and 6 billion isk a month rent" diatribe. What some of you may not know, have forgotton, or decided it suits you to overlook, at the time the deal was made with BoB, there was a 10/10 Angel complex in the RIT Triangle. This complex could be run twice a day, if not three times if one was on the ball. We ran it as often as we could, tho there was a bit of competition from other alliances that came in for that purpose.
*waves to Komolov and Papa Digger
To give a realistic view, we often pulled 2-3 billion isk a day from that complex until complexes were nerfed. This isk went to the alliance and to pay Bob the agreed upon rent. I don't know exact figures in isk the complex gave to the alliance. 6 Billion isk a month for a possible return of 50-100 billion isk a month.
|

Dungar Loghoth
Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 21:34:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio Hi Flax, its nice to see you about.  Just wanted to briefly comment on the whole "bob pet and 6 billion isk a month rent" diatribe. What some of you may not know, have forgotton, or decided it suits you to overlook, at the time the deal was made with BoB, there was a 10/10 Angel complex in the RIT Triangle. This complex could be run twice a day, if not three times if one was on the ball. We ran it as often as we could, tho there was a bit of competition from other alliances that came in for that purpose.
*waves to Komolov and Papa Digger
To give a realistic view, we often pulled 2-3 billion isk a day from that complex until complexes were nerfed. This isk went to the alliance and to pay Bob the agreed upon rent. I don't know exact figures in isk the complex gave to the alliance. 6 Billion isk a month for a possible return of 50-100 billion isk a month.
Yet you still expected them to pay long after they removed static complexes. ---
|

Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 21:45:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Yet you still expected them to pay long after they removed static complexes.
Talon is ex-rise.
0/ Talon :)
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 22:14:00 -
[123]
o/ Big 
I think one needs to keep this in persepctive. RIT is rich in mineral resources and the security status allows it to produce some decent faction rats. I don't think it is unsurprising RA, in addition to other reasons, wanted the constellation even after the complex was gone. Someone else would have to give exact figures and dates, but, yes, it is my understanding that rent was paid for 3 more months and waived the last two months RISE was in RIT.
|

General Windypops
Skullduggery Inc
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 22:18:00 -
[124]
Originally by: The Mittani
well worth 6b a month in rent good sir you simply fail to appreciate bobs munificence
Are RA letting you run the 10/10s yet?
~-= Winner of the COAD Buns of Steel award, 2006 and 2007 =-~
|

The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 22:21:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Flax Volcanus The absolute WORST part of being finance minister last summer was having to cut the reimbursements or not shell out ISK for supplies because a couple CEOs got sick of paying into the common wallet. I think my blood pressure used to rise more during forum posting than it did at work, especially when the rank-and-file became upset over the fallout from the alliance money issues, but did not pressure their own CEOs into doing something about the situation. The CEOs were the "Council," and some of them screwed us mightily.
There was a huge lack of leadership without a central figure to make decisions. What we had was a confederation of individual corps, some of whose CEOs decided to support the alliance when it suited them, and do their own thing when it didn't. I remember during the last weeks in Feyth, jumping out to rep station services or trying to bait a cloaker while a dozen other guys were AFK in station. Six of us outside, twice as many inside, ****ing away. And no one with the authority to say "do this or GTFO." Same thing with ops and logistics, and the interminable hour-long rallies at POSes before watching people trickle out in disgust over the inaction.
WRT smack, most of us followed the policy against talking in local. We did have a few PROFOUND a$$holes who always thought they could play by their own rules -- one of whom I will shoot any time I get the chance, for as long as I play this game -- but the smack generally came from the Goonies. The rest of the RSF bunch tended to be pretty decent. And, as much as I hated the cloaking PL dudes, I'd love to go shoot up some stuff with you. 
Kyle is right: The op in the lobby was funny as hell -- not least because it showed how sorry our opsec was. Dunno who Mitani's alt was, but half the spies I had pegged were in the same corp that recruited guys straight out of KOS. And, yeah, our corp had one, too. 
Even without the internal problems, RISE could never have stood against the wave that eventually drowned us; there were just too many. But, it is only a game, and sometimes being the underdog is more fun than being the big dog.
flax to his credit repeatedly said that they shouldn't pay bob their rent as bob wasn't defending rise as per their contract but the rest of the council were too afraid to do anything one way or another
i'd say he was about the only smart guy on the council, that lokesh guy was completely in bobs pocket and i laughed everytime i read a council post of his white knighting for them
|

dastommy79
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.08 23:15:00 -
[126]
Rise gang killed me once. decent dudes. Dont know why goons be hatting them so much
I driks lots [/URL] |

enderzone
Lai Dai Applied Technology
|
Posted - 2008.02.09 01:34:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Gneeznow I locked down aridia solo, ask dungar he know's he'll back me up
uber, shame you are now goon
|

Papa Digger
OEG Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.09 03:07:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio o/ Big 
I think one needs to keep this in persepctive. RIT is rich in mineral resources and the security status allows it to produce some decent faction rats. I don't think it is unsurprising RA, in addition to other reasons, wanted the constellation even after the complex was gone.
o/ Talon.  Main reason for Reunion to take RIT was nostalgia about "good old times" when we fought RISE. :)
PS. Talon, how you can prefer BOB to us? It will be hard to kill you again
---- ex-CEO. |

Zorlag
Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.09 03:12:00 -
[129]
Originally by: The Mittani
i'd say he was about the only smart guy on the council, that lokesh guy was completely in bobs pocket and i laughed everytime i read a council post of his white knighting for them
Surprisingly, despite bob's usual policy of letting in all the morons in the galaxy they did NOT allow LoKesh to join XD
|

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.09 04:50:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Papa Digger
Originally by: Talon Scorpio o/ Big 
I think one needs to keep this in persepctive. RIT is rich in mineral resources and the security status allows it to produce some decent faction rats. I don't think it is unsurprising RA, in addition to other reasons, wanted the constellation even after the complex was gone.
o/ Talon.  Main reason for Reunion to take RIT was nostalgia about "good old times" when we fought RISE. :)
PS. Talon, how you can prefer BOB to us? It will be hard to kill you again
Why Papa, that implies you invited..ahem..a "moron" to Reunion.
I don't recall you killing me, you just ripped off my..interceptor ..and sent me on my way. Neverminds.
|

Elizabeth Fallbrook
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.09 05:45:00 -
[131]
Hey Talon, when are you going to update your myspace page? :)
|

Lunas Feelgood
S.A.S
|
Posted - 2008.02.09 09:31:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Zorlag
Originally by: The Mittani
i'd say he was about the only smart guy on the council, that lokesh guy was completely in bobs pocket and i laughed everytime i read a council post of his white knighting for them
Surprisingly, despite bob's usual policy of letting in all the morons in the galaxy they did NOT allow LoKesh to join XD
LoKesh is a bob spy Signature
Bob Highcommand:
We planned it all
BOB: Hey its unfair Goons killed all our pets and we are now outnumbe |

Lucius Ventrue
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.10 04:37:00 -
[133]
No mention of my ball of death :( ghey
Shadoo, always fun fighting you, but could never get you guys to play when i was FC'in; well a few times ...
Black Friday was a tough one to swallow though, nothing like the first experience commanding in 200+ lagfest, learned a lot that night. Running the numbers of spidertanking with Carriers and that Moros on the gate, we woulda held out a long time.
We actually did, i think it took 2+ hours to kill those 7 carriers, 1 moros and about 200 rise ships. Big arse expensive in my pocket mistake that night. Think i ended up shelling out 7billion isk to all the rise players from my wallet in total, plus the alliance droppin about 3b in compensation.
Good times, rought times for RISE during that time. Regardless of all of the BS smack from folks that dont know, but love to bandwagon, pre-9+ alliances pounding down RISE doors, folks knew, if you came for a fight, you got one in the RHG Constellation.
UL, KOS, PL, KIA, AAA, RA, GOON, SA, Intrepid C... all could attest to that, if/when they came singly for random ops.
Once the preverbial hammer came though, left with not much of a fight.
|

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.11 22:32:00 -
[134]
Hi to Talon and Lucius. 
Mitts, you GOTTA tell me who the spy was. It's killing me. I am unable to perform marital duties until this burden is lifted from my mind.
WRT the rent amount, until plexes were nerfed (APR 07?), the deal was a no-brainer. ISK in far exceeded rent out. It was losing the plexes that put pressure on the alliance wallet -- that and the certain CEOs not wanting to pay taxes. Also, I can verify that (a) rent was waived three times that I know of, and (b) IMO there was no reason for us to pay AUG, SEP, and OCT rent, since we received nothing of value from the arrangement.
(IIRC there was 13B in the alliance wallet when I turned over the checkbook. Dunno what ever became of that.)
P.S. I sure would like to shoot Lucky Dork or whatever his name is if I ever see him. |

Coolgamer
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 08:14:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Aleric Vikyz Edited by: Aleric Vikyz on 02/02/2008 04:44:24 One thing that had a major effect on the outcome was that by the time PL rolled in most of RISE's PvPers were just, simply, burnt out. I was and everyone I flew with was, by around August. The KW debacle wore us out, our leadership sucked and that was our wake-up call. So by the time PL rolled in, I just didn't care about RISE anymore, and basically only logged in to change skills.
(...)
RISE was a lot of fun, but eventually all the bullcrap just pilled up until I stopped caring. I'm sure a lot of others feel similarly.
this is also my feeling here.
some story,
Back to early june when the KW- op was decided, there were a bunch of military ppl behind it (Terracian, warsyn...) and logistic ppl like myself. But not even 2 days after the spamming started all military was on "vacation" for almost the next 2 months, leaving only logistic. That's what hollidays are for but :) So to please certain people that were only for immediate actions like KW, it was done, but those same ppl suddently left others with the job to do, something that was not even realistic on the paper with the wallet we had back then. (On a side note, the wallet was always a problem, so many times we were almost close to not have fuel to run all our pos because it was spent in useless pvp funds or other stuff like that ^^, 0.0 is for self sufficient ppl not for beggars)
This is one thing, the other thing was about the total lack of goal in fact for long term on KW. We were told, get some towers, put them, but after the initial spamming nothing was done to spam more (i mean Council didnot gave us any cash to do the job) so only roamming gangs were done. This last for all summer, so we paid fuel for dozen of pos that were eventually lost in the end (and even better approx 9 towers were even unanchored and put in a corp hangar that was killed, noobish). This is prolly the only thing RISE achieved (beside the IXC and IAC push early 2007), spamming pos, and doing roams, but it was a major failure in fact since KW was left by KOS (as we left RIT to PL because of orders to get out, stupid ones^^).
Why this? just to tell you with facts that leadership was in fact not united, we had many times different orders for goal to achieve. And as other said here already, leadership was too spread to be really efficient. Leadership was basically Council, consisting of ceos+directors+some ministers (more as advisers for those last), but the problem that all decision were 99% of the time made at corp level, or some decision voted by council only reflected one corp point of view. Some other like logistic people were so fed up with that that they were doing everything on their own.
So in end august, just before the KOS spamming, most of RISE ppl were just left alone, and many lost the faith :) Apathy is before KOS and PL and Goon responsible for the death of rise. Secondly a totally ridiculous management of Rise strategy is also responsible (like not spamming p8, though isk asked for to no end as always)
I read a post here form a rise stating PL and goons gangs were huge, well think back mate, they were camping us ridiculously with what 10-15 ships not even? because most pvpers were told to get out? and even when our ****tty FCs realized that with our 3 stations incap it was maybe time to come back, it was too late. Above all, the trust in a BoB help response was very naive from leadersip.
so hehe first Dictator ship ftw, Rise is the example of what not to do secondly, kick those carebears corps, dont need them in an alliance, then, as CEO think alliance and corp not corp only
this is what i learnt from Rise :) beside the very good friendship i found there 
---
|

Coolgamer
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 08:25:00 -
[136]
Originally by: The Mittani
flax to his credit repeatedly said that they shouldn't pay bob their rent as bob wasn't defending rise as per their contract but the rest of the council were too afraid to do anything one way or another
i'd say he was about the only smart guy on the council, that lokesh guy was completely in bobs pocket and i laughed everytime i read a council post of his white knighting for them
unless i'm wrong the tax havent been paid since RA towers back in late april or may, and it was paid once only after i did the mistake to tell TWD we had the cash :p i was killed after by Colwolfe that was Isk Minister then ^^
It wasnt paid for sure after the 10/10 was removed of GHZ
I dont think Flax did even paid the tax to Bob ---
|

PhatfarmUK
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 09:54:00 -
[137]
The spammin of KOS towers in RIT was a Coaltion stalling procedure to gain valuable time....RISE wasted alot of time knocking them down and so the tatics worked...
KOS like RISE are/were only pawns in the War but Unlike RISE our friends and Allies Helped when Help was needed..after all thats what freinds/allies are/were for.
Many a time we held KOS space without help from our friends but we didnt feel the need to spam the forums 
|

Rhaegor Stormborn
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 14:55:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Rhaegor Stormborn on 13/02/2008 15:05:54
Getthepodgetthepodgetthepodgetthepod!
Lot of the "good" RISE membership posting in this thread. If the alliance had been made up and ran by the pilots posting here things may have ended differently, but alas it was run by people who wanted to who never logged in, tried to lead from forums, worried about e-honour and who posted what on Eve-O rather than about fighting a war against determined enemies.
We won a lot of big ass fights and every member that fought on a daily basis gained valuable combat experience which tyey will take with them wherever they are now. I think a majority of us had a lot of fun and that is really what matters in the end.
Volition Cult Recruitment Post |

Duun Suhuy
Incognito Inc
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 15:45:00 -
[139]
In my opinion, what it really came down to was the fact that in times of strife and war, we still had to follow the rules of that idiotic council. No offense to the 2 or 3 good members of that crew. The things the final directors are complaining of is the reason that the previous batch of directors left. And we even put a post up about why the council sucked and should really put some thought into it's purpose.
I can't say for sure whether RISE would have done better if we hadn't left, but I know they'd have done better if the directors ran the show instead of the CEOs.
|

Cliff Floyd
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 15:50:00 -
[140]
Sorry to see you fall the way you did. You were some of the best pilots around and you will be missed.
Just kidding.
|

Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 21:54:00 -
[141]
you know, it was a pretty good read ------
Tides of Silence |

Shinori
GoonFleet
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 22:14:00 -
[142]
What it really comes down to is that Rise were terrible pets and lost.
End of story.
|

GeMiPaT
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 22:47:00 -
[143]
|

LoKesh
Amarr InQuest Ascension
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 22:48:00 -
[144]
Wow... dead and still being beat upon. :)
I admit I haven't read the five pages of responses - but let me throw in the leadership perspective on the OP.
The biggest turning point, imo - was our failure to take KW away from KOS. When we started the offensive we realized that very few alliances had the ability to project force into a hostile region and actually take space. We wanted to prove that we could this -- We underestimated the logistics and committment needed. We made alot of mistakes and didn't follow through on the right opportunities. If we had taken KW, perhaps things would have been different.
P8 - Letting P8 be taken from us was the biggest mistake we made in terms of defense of the home front. The entire Council had a list of where our sov holding POSs were, and no one (myself included) bothered to say, "We really should fill all 8 moons in P8." Blaming that on the logistics department is unfair -- Let me say publicly that if not for Coolgamer, Cytosine and the rest of our logistics gurus, we would have been removed from Feythabolis months earlier. Those guys were great. The loss of sov in outlying systems was trivial - holding P8, RIT, GHZ and 5P would have ensured constellation sov.
Homeguard - Heh... the fact that this is the first mention of anything internal to RISE homeguard on the forums tells me I did a good job with security there. I assembled HG because RISE was being plagued by constant turnover in terms of a 'lead' FC. At the time, I believe our current front-runner commander was on extended sick leave. The purpose of the thing was to provide some clear cut military command under a small group of people. We were hampered by the fact that yes, I was acting outside the Council (and my duties as diplomat) in establishing this. Again - big thanks to the folks who served in HG. Alot of sleep was lost, but these are the folks that saw to it that the 40+ towers KOS threw at the triangle were destroyed. Perhaps a wiser/stronger man than myself would have pushed HG further after that and taken over the whole military. I'm to much an idealist to have engineered a coup.
PL Cloaker gangs - Aye, yeah the nano/cloaker gangs were a serious problem. The biggest problem being morale. Our home systems were unsafe. If everyone had realize that it was just a morale issue, it wouldn't have been quite such a big deal. However - this lead FCs and the Council to issue orders like "Get out of the triangle and go to the front" - the downfall being that we didn't go out as an alliance. Once an alliance is fighting as individual pilots alongside an ally they start to lose their individual nature. A lesson I learned (to late) from watching MC and BoB is that an alliance fleet should arrive to an allied op as a group and depart as such. The loss to organization and self image is immense otherwise.
I will admit that the constant references to the ineffectual nature of the Council is, perhaps, warranted. Every leader in RISE was great - good ideas, good character, just good. But, together as a democratic Council it was apparent that there were a disagreements on the individual level about how we should function. The biggest point of disagreement was probably federal versus state power (That is -- when could the alliance tell individual corps what to do)
Other little known facts (or well known facts never mentioned in propaganda):
Of the 9-10 months RISE lived in Feythabolis, we only payed rent 3 or 4 times. Each time we had invaders or POSs being dropped, or other circumstances limiting our cash we talked with BoB and the rent was waived.
The reimbursement policy was stopped because we were spending our isk on defensive POSs. There was a vote proposed to raise taxes to cover the program... it failed.
Any other questions you want answered by a guy who saw it all??
xFoundation, xVC, xRISE Still GBC |

GeMiPaT
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 22:50:00 -
[145]
Hi here, to ex-rise and others.
The initial post is rather good and accurate on what happened except for bob. There is probably more to be said though as the ones writing here are not talking from the beginning when we joined RHG and BOB blue list. I also agree with coolgamer and not because we are in the same corp ;)
For the records, our corp was in RISE since the time we were still in the West (when we merged our little alliance GA to them) until the end of RHG. so a little more than a year probably.
When we went there, the GBC was attacked in that region in the week or two that followed. We resisted to that and all the attacks were repelled with or without the help of BOB (without on P8 gate camping or with like the RA MS killed), people coming to RHG were going back in pod at best. At that time we had less corporations, lots of good fighters and some good FCs. Then BOB took back the south and started to threaten the north. We had some time then to imagine we could take part of the KOS space as it could help bob and help us gain some free ground. I was not really happy with that and would have preferred that our combat pilots followed the bob fleets rather than go for that but a council decision is a council decision so they started that madness. At that time we should have invested a lot more money into our own defenses like P8 and other home systems as well as in the systems that linked us to our allies towards AZN. We didn't. all budget money from RISE was used to start to plant POs in KOS space and reimburse individual PVP losses, taking the same timing to what BOB was doing in some other systems up north at the same time. Things were going well up to the point when we started to feel some pressure back on us, more and more pressure and then BOB starting to retreat again. Instead of taking back those towers and retreat as well (like bob did) and hopefully have those POSes defending our systems, the council decided for a long while to continue that plan even when it started to look completely irrealistic and that almost no people were showing up to follow the fleet to KW, I remember like Flax some days when I went completely mad about what was written on commands, council and other secrets rooms. I was really sick about it but once again, the council decides by number of votes and lots of people in the council had big teeths growing not knowing or ignoring our real internal weak situation and "international or intersollars as you wish" situation. A very few people saw it coming, but nobody listened to us (I'm proud to say RES saw it coming for a long time even if it doesn't help today), we (RES) were even told that we were spending too much money in POS Fuel while we were struggling to have it on time and didn't had enough to cover what should have been covered. But well, things were still ok for RISE back then, it was just an expansive battle that we were slowly loosing with KOS, nothing too big. But at the same time we started to have some more small corps not yet ready for full ops and old corps started to loose members, often the good ones.
Then bob started to retreat further south and even further west. And then comes the PL (I won't say it again, what says Shadoo and Coolgamer is the truth), we had some good fights in the very beginning with them (PL were good pilots really), then we started to lack pilots to defend (classic to any alliance going slowly down), people being sacked because they did a wrong op as a commander, some other being sacked because they wanted to shout at the council, etc... (some traitors too) AND also what others are saying... the order from the military and council to go out of RHG and raid either with bob or in KOS or... I don't know where... this completely killed our defenses. At that time our corp alone had to maintain alive more than 20 POS, ------ to be followed in next post. |

GeMiPaT
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 22:51:00 -
[146]
so RES stayed in RHG mostly to refuel and take part of the logistics with some other very dedicated pilots to POS counterspam, fuel pos (and that has been some real sport at some times), pos defense gunners (lots of ennemy ships went down because of this but we lacked our own fleet (gone away to raid...) to help us keep the POSes and be 100% efficient in defense. Sometimes we simply lacked people to armor or hull rep... at that time, we saw BOB coming some times and it was a real relief for us. We could have liked to see them more on some occasions but I still believe that the communication between RISE and BOB was probably not enough to clearly say when it was vital to see them and when it was not. I cannot say for sure, I wasn't part of those discussions. Neither was I part of rent discussion but from what I remember, Coolgamer is right, we didn't pay all the time, bob was not asking anything back at the time that we were so smacked up in local. Also not to forget the final decision to save some assets from KW, but it was way too late to save anything significant that could have helped us in defense at that point.
I have to say that there was a lot of good pilots in RISE at the beginning, that the number started to fade away at some point and that the reasons are multiple and not only the fact that we were often attacked or camped. The logistic department done by a few corps and individuals including RES pilots has been incredible. Like saving POS at the very last hour of fuel everyday for so many weeks. I am really proud to say hi to all those people that went to empire to bring the fuel, broke the camps to bring the fuel in some other systems, doing diversions to get others where they had to and so many unbelievable stories I don't have time to relate here. The real asset of RISE at the end remained in that topic, an extraordinary logistic, some good fighters but not enough to make a difference and some good people completely lost in what their leaders told them to do. Beside that we had probably too many people wandering somewhere (god knows where), crazy decision made at a majority that I'm still wondering today how can it be that there are so many blind people......... So like coolgamer says, I would prefer an alliance that is less democratic. That democracy process really killed the determination of the pilots, killed the defense build up of RHG, the rapidity to take actions, the independance to rapidly decide something. All that has been a big mess and I'm not willing to enter an alliance that would be proud of such a democracy mechanism. It's good to ask to corp leaders where they want the alliance to be headed to but it's not good to ask them on every decision to be made even if it concerns a big part of the budget the alliance has. The utopia behind that was way too big, we needed a leader instead of council decisions. We also needed some Commanders for the fights but we lost them alsmot all before the end and the remaining ones were scared (and I understand them) of asking too big sacrifices to the troops. Something coming again from alliance policy and council watching over commanders shoulders, something I never admitted as a good way of managing the military wing of an alliance that wanted to fight originally while moving to RHG.
For BOB, I will never say something bad about them because the renting of RHG was part of the deal, we came there for that and we knew that there was a war going on. The kind of war that divides the map in 2 big coalitions. We played the south, we lost but we were happy to fight on that side because we choosed it. Fighting with some of the alliance of the North-West or the east would have been a very bad pick for me, I would probably have left my corp if we did it. I know bob was probably not always taking care of the renters but their goal was much bigger than defending the renters. --- to be followed --- |

GeMiPaT
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 22:52:00 -
[147]
a 6b bill for RHG certainly didn't include anything else than being able to enrich ourselves in that very rich region. I never understood ppl smacking at us "hey bob is not coming to defend you", well no, that was not part of the contract but we are glad they did it on occasions. Now if you want to criticize bob attitude on that subject, I would say they did really good, their only mistake has probably been not to enroll the renters with them in real operations and real integration into a coalition of alliances to fight efficiently against high numbers. If we take RISE as an example, we could probably have lasted and helped them much longer if we had some commanders (I know they have tons of good commanders) taking our fleets with them and defend our territory as well as more advices on defences, links with other renters and all that... Bob has probably not believed enough in other small and medium alliances being able to help them at one point, that's my only regret but surely not something bad about them, big alliances like that have their own goals. RISE was ready to help on many occasions and often we stayed waiting for nothing or the action happened before we know there was something to happen. I believe now that what remains from the south defences are more playing like '1' but that was not the case at that time, that's probably a mistake that has been done back then, time will tell.
For RISE. It has been good, I took a lot of fun in fights during the 6-8 first months then became a monk in logistic/pos warfare for the remaining, spending incredible nights that I enjoyed a lot. I regret that we lost so many good FCs for silly reasons and that we lost no long teeths council members, that should have been the opposite. Good peoples, good fights, good memories, bad administration and decision making process. I was happy the day I requested my accesses to be revoked so that I would only see the 'little guy' sections only. It was really bad for my health to read all that.... b****s***t and following that, also a relief to leave the alliance when it relocated to the west. We did our job until the end (the end of RHG at least, nothing was really important after that)
For RES, well I'm still impressed we were able to do all that with a mid size corp, although we lost the territory, it is a kind of victory for the individuals of our corp, we were able to see our potential.
For the ennemies, good fights to PL well present in this thread, almost the only ones that really did the difference down there as they didn't need the numbers to achieve something very significant against RISE like others had to. (shadoo we know it was annoying not to fight, that was part of the strategy but I'm sure you had good laughing times too).
For the others that believe they know but were not there. pleaaaase stop smacking
|

LoKesh
Amarr InQuest Ascension
|
Posted - 2008.02.13 23:13:00 -
[148]
+++ to Gemipat's words. He's one of the guys who kept us alive for so long.
Things I forgot/didn't have room for:
Yaay's speech... The guy was trying to help, but that whole thing made me FURIOUS (and several of the BoB leadership heard all about it from me the day after). Two gatherings were intended that day - One Eurpo and one US. Both were to be brief talks followed by an op. I used my position to ensure people would be there and promised the fights were important (we were supposed to go fight RA in CoRM space). The Euro one is cancelled. The US one is a bad speech. I wasn't there, and had to hear it from the Goon's spy recording. I'd like to think if I was there that the speech would have been shorter and we would have shot something. Anyone talking to my guys (people who had fought tooth and nail to defend the flank) like that was way out of line. I had hoped the pilots would hear from a BoB FC what the RISE leadership usually passed on from BoB. Unfortunately, Yaay took it upon himself to do this without talking to the rest of his alliance.
Alliances are hard to kill. Eve is a game. People don't die. The average Goon thinks, "RISE was a weak alliance that didn't deserve space, PL attacked them, then we finished them in a week." Not true. The Goons had a lot to do with our downfall, but it was through constant pressure for 6-8 months, combined with increasing espionage. I don't know if that was the intention of the Goon leadership, but it was that constant erroding of RISE that made the final push as quick as it was. The average Goon needs to know that.
xFoundation, xVC, xRISE Still GBC |

Yaay
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 00:23:00 -
[149]
Leading up to:
Rise at their prime was an alliance that could field 70-100 man fleets. They showed potential, something that could be molded into a strong alliance. But they made quite a few mistakes that most alliances in game make. They weren't strict. They allowed pilots to do things out of check, the promoted for no real reason, and they had no clear voice.
By the time KOS spammed Rise regions, they were done. Truth of the matter was, BoB put tons of assests and tons of time into Rise held regions that was really unwarranted. KOS POS removal was not really the work of Rise, It was BOB lead and prompted a slight morale boost within Rise.
The weeks leading up to the speech, BoB took 30-50 man US TZ fleets up to Rise territory to help out only to Witness Rise dedicating maybe 15 pilots to defend their own territory, most in tech 1 cruisers. Was that the result of lost ships, sure, partly no doubt.
It's been so long I forget, but on the night before, there was a specific objective to meet, maybe save a POS or who knows... Rise turnout was about 10 or less.
It was then that I talked to one of RISE top 3 guys, and layed out frustrations. I offered a kick in the pants sorta talk and it was more than gladly accepted. In the following weeks, this same leader was suspected of being either a turncoat or an infiltrator, and quite honestly, knowing RISE record on spies, I don't doubt it 1 bit.
The speech itself was really expected to be more controlled, but real life adventures during the day lead to a bit more EMO than I really planned for. Was it a Kick in the Pants speech, hell yes. Would I do it again, probably not. Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
Truth be told, too much was expected of Rise on my part. Such is life in 0.0 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID |

Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 00:27:00 -
[150]
The fact that everytime things went half bbad and the fighting was intense the top level FCs and leadership disappeared, or the fact that certain FCs were allowed to lead gangs to their guarenteed destruction time and time again, or maybe that BoB and Goons both had spies in RISE's top level leadership preventing the council from taking action on anything.
|

Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 03:11:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 14/02/2008 00:28:48
Truth be told, too much was expected of Rise on my part. Such is life in 0.0
...
Awful big talk there...
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 03:39:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 14/02/2008 03:39:57
Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 14/02/2008 00:28:48 Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
Truth be told, too much was expected of Rise on my part. Such is life in 0.0
What a self-righteous, ego-inflated ******* you are. No wonder more than half the game hates BloB. Guys like you screw it up for the good ones.
|

LoKesh
Amarr InQuest Ascension
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 03:44:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Yaay
Rise at their prime was an alliance that could field 70-100 man fleets. They showed potential, something that could be molded into a strong alliance. But they made quite a few mistakes that most alliances in game make. They weren't strict. They allowed pilots to do things out of check, they promoted for no real reason, and they had no clear voice.
Not so sure about the promotion bit, but otherwise that is truth.
Originally by: Yaay By the time KOS spammed Rise regions, they were done. Truth of the matter was, BoB put tons of assests and tons of time into Rise held regions that was really unwarranted. KOS POS removal was not really the work of Rise, It was BOB lead and prompted a slight morale boost within Rise.
Yaay, we're on the same side, so I don't really want to start the hair pulling... RISE knew it's position. We held out against everything that was thrown at us while the allies ground their way through Querious. When we got help it was fantastic, but I don't think anything was ever sacrificed to provide that help.
BoB lead started the turn around on the KOS towers, but it was RISE sweat and effort that kept up with the spam and RISE fleets that cleared the POSs after the first two days of assault.
Originally by: Yaay It was then that I talked to one of RISE top 3 guys, and layed out frustrations. I offered a kick in the pants sorta talk and it was more than gladly accepted. In the following weeks, this same leader was suspected of being either a turncoat or an infiltrator, and quite honestly, knowing RISE record on spies, I don't doubt it 1 bit.
lol - Me. All me. :) I do seem to have brought the grim reaper to several alliances, but not through spying (Anyone in Goon need a diplomat?) I appreciate that you didn't call me out. I wish I could have done the same, but everyone on CAOD knows who gave that speech. Let's compromise. I think going into that we both had different visions of how it would have played out. We should have talked through that rather than assuming. Things were going badly long before the speech, it was just another symptom of where we were.
xFoundation, xVC, xRISE Still GBC |

Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 03:50:00 -
[154]
x up in this thread if you think Yaay should continue providing motivational speeches.
Originally by: Darkrydar Oh and killboard loss arguments are so 2005.
|

LoKesh
Amarr InQuest Ascension
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 04:12:00 -
[155]
Originally by: The Mittani ...that lokesh guy was completely in bobs pocket and i laughed everytime i read a council post of his white knighting for them
Yet I'm not in BoB, know am I? Everything you read from me in Council about our relationship with BoB was the honest truth. BoB gave us alot of respect in their dealings with us (respect that I'm not sure we deserved). I recognized that as an asset and tried not to let people jeopardize it.
I was also willing to think on the large scale - we could have done a million things to save our own butts... it would have just accelerated the assault on our allies. Many of your compatriots fault us for the 'high and mighty attitude' but that's what made us RISE. We weren't going to sell out our friends.
xFoundation, xVC, xRISE Still GBC |

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 04:16:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 14/02/2008 04:19:13
Originally by: Devian 666 x up in this thread if you think Yaay should continue providing motivational speeches.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
LOL -- maybe volunteering at a suicide hotline, too?
Absolute truth is that RISE had rent waived twice during the APR-OCT time that I had access to the alliance wallet. (If I still had the wallet dumps on my machine, I'd post the whole thing.) Apparently, OCT rent was supposed to be waived as well, but no one actually told us that. And, even after Dian said the OCT payment would be refunded, that still had not been done more than a month later, when I finally removed myself from RISE Holdings wallet access.
If you don't believe me, ask Mittani. He apparently had access to all my *****ing in the council forums. 
To Yaay's post, let me remind him that the caretaking agreement included assurances that BloB would aid us in the case of major hostile assaults. A few times, they did. But many more times, they did not. End of story.
Certainly, RISE was messed up by the end of JUL. No argument there. But BloB made several commitments to RISE -- promises of defensive assists, of titan-based logistics help -- that it did not keep. Anyone who asserts otherwise is either a liar or an amnesiac.
As Lok said, "we weren't going to sell out our friends." To bad BloB didn't share our commitment. |

Bigeasy
Caldari Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 04:27:00 -
[157]
Originally by: LoKesh
BoB gave us alot of respect in their dealings with us (respect that I'm not sure we deserved). I recognized that as an asset and tried not to let people jeopardize it.
Funny Lokesh
Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 14/02/2008 00:28:48 Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
Truth be told, too much was expected of Rise on my part. Such is life in 0.0
I dont know how they see respect where you live, but i know in Texas ide say he just insulted an alliance that fought tooth and nail and was bled dry on their behalf.
You can kiss the fattest part of my ass yaay.
Its no wonder your fighting this war by yourselves.
Let them hate, so long as they fear-Caligula |

Coolgamer
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 06:44:00 -
[158]
Originally by: LoKesh I will admit that the constant references to the ineffectual nature of the Council is, perhaps, warranted. Every leader in RISE was great - good ideas, good character, just good. But, together as a democratic Council it was apparent that there were a disagreements on the individual level about how we should function. The biggest point of disagreement was probably federal versus state power (That is -- when could the alliance tell individual corps what to do)
You sum up what was my thoughts on this too, very good guys, but an ineffective system ---
|

Geressia
Starship Direct
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 07:08:00 -
[159]
Originally by: LoKesh we could have done a million things to save our own butts... it would have just accelerated the assault on our allies.
Since Rise gave way under the pressure, obviously it wouldn't have hurt to try shifting some of the pressure from Rise onto other pets. When you're designing a bridge, you don't make each strut bear the whole load until it gives way and passes the whole load onto the next strut, you design the bridge to spread the load so that no part of the bridge bears more than it can handle.
In letting your allies die one by one you guys really didn't do your hegemonic best.
|

Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 11:44:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Yaay
Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
It's a game, not a way of life. RISE didn't appreciate the speech because most of us didn't like being disrespected by our allies, if what you say is true and BoB pilots are conditioned to accept that kind of behavior then I'd say it all worked out for the best for both parties.
Your post is the clearest example of what Goons claim to hate about BoB on these forums. Before I'd only seen mostly jokes about "BoB is better than you", you actually sound like you believe what you type here though.
As an individual you did more to hurt RISE than help, and somehow RISE failed you.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |

Flashh Gorden
Trinity Nova
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 13:31:00 -
[161]
I worked on the Rise contract,TNT was part of the KIA aliance at that time, and we were employed by KOS. What I cant work out is. That after KIA pulled out,Rise came under the cosh from PL/Goon recon gangs. Why didnt Rise themselves hire some mercs to counter this small but very damaging menace in there home systems? I think this would of raised the moral of the members and given them a much needed boost at time when they needed it most.
|

Karl Halyard
Tea And Sympathy Ltd. Liability
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 14:28:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Karl Halyard on 14/02/2008 14:29:41 From Despair.com
"Committees- none of us are as dumb as all of us."
I thought the downfall started when RA started camping the angel complex and running it before us after DT. The european members really were getting frustrated at not being able to make any isk and we lost a lot of good people.
|

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 14:59:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Flashh Gorden Edited by: Flashh Gorden on 14/02/2008 13:38:11 Edited by: Flashh Gorden on 14/02/2008 13:37:13 I worked on the Rise contract,TNT was part of the KIA aliance at that time, and we were employed by KOS. What I cant work out is. That after KIA pulled out,Rise came under the cosh from PL/Goon recon gangs. Why didnt Rise themselves hire some mercs to counter this small but very damaging menace in there home systems? I think this would of raised the moral of the members and given them a much needed boost at time when they needed it most.
I would like to add that during the entire contract Rise gave us some very good fights and local chat was non existant apart from the odd GF after battle.
We were impressed with KIA. In October Lucius Ventrue had some negotiations with KIA to come in, however by then it was really too late and you guys apparantly were finishing up a contract elsewhere. We had suffered a lack of a strong leader for several months prior to that. Certain FC's had either disappeared, become frustrated and left the alliance, or simply didn't log in. There was a telling silence from the Council, I do not recall any concisive plans being relayed or any strong directives designed to hold the alliance together. While we lost RIT, et al, I do believe that strong alliance leadership would have kept RISE itself from falling apart... spies, a tendency to think in ways that were pro individual rather than supportive of the alliance, and inclusion of care bear corps who cleaned up in terms of isks but offered little value in terms of military support ( and who fled with their assets upon the realization we had a big fight on our hands, dam you all for the cowards you were)
As can be seen with what is happening in NOL currently, even if RISE had been organized under strong leadership and bringing good sized fleets, it would had put off the inevitable perhaps a few weeks. By the time October came round, we had ticked off the Coalition enough by our resistence that they would simply have brought it greater numbers to take RIT regardless of what we could have mustered. We knew that and once p8 acquired the Eye of Whatsit, moral within RISE dropped through the floor. It is my personal belief that p8 should have had RISE towers and logistics should have been adequetly funded, however in the end I don't think it would have actually mattered, except to delay the inevitable. Flat out, I do not like Goonfleet for a variety of reasons. They are, however, a clear example of what it is possible to achieve and what can be achieved by any alliance that puts it's mind to something. The worm in the apple of course being the maintanance of the space afterwards, wether focus to hold the territory will continue, and what new powers will arise to challenge the Coalition...and what old powers will raise it's head to take back what has been lost.
|

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 18:15:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 14/02/2008 18:19:18 Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 14/02/2008 18:16:43 Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 14/02/2008 18:15:46
Originally by: Flashh Gorden Edited by: Flashh Gorden on 14/02/2008 13:38:11 Edited by: Flashh Gorden on 14/02/2008 13:37:13 I worked on the Rise contract,TNT was part of the KIA aliance at that time, and we were employed by KOS. What I cant work out is. That after KIA pulled out,Rise came under the cosh from PL/Goon recon gangs. Why didnt Rise themselves hire some mercs to counter this small but very damaging menace in there home systems? I think this would of raised the moral of the members and given them a much needed boost at time when they needed it most.
I would like to add that during the entire contract Rise gave us some very good fights and local chat was non existant apart from the odd GF after battle.
Although the possibility of hiring mercs was discussed, it was never considered seriously. Even if we'd had people agree on hiring mercs, we could not have afforded payment; at least not from alliance funds. Thanks mainly to the efforts of two CEOs which killed temporary funding levies -- yes, the dreaded corp taxes -- we were running in the red by the middle of AUG. Hell, they even had me badgering Coolgamer and his crew for itemized tallies of all the Logistics expenditures.
Since no one offered merc services with interest-free payment plans, we really had no alternative. 
R.I.P. Rise. We had fun for a while, fought some good fights and lost others. And, we're now free to shoot the few *******s who used to be blue! |

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 18:29:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Talon Scorpio ...
As can be seen with what is happening in NOL currently, even if RISE had been organized under strong leadership and bringing good sized fleets, it would had put off the inevitable perhaps a few weeks. By the time October came round, we had ticked off the Coalition enough by our resistence that they would simply have brought it greater numbers to take RIT regardless of what we could have mustered. We knew that and once p8 acquired the Eye of Whatsit, moral within RISE dropped through the floor.
Eye of Whatsit?
|

The Mittani
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 18:44:00 -
[166]
Edited by: The Mittani on 14/02/2008 18:44:56
Originally by: Yaay
The speech itself was really expected to be more controlled, but real life adventures during the day lead to a bit more EMO than I really planned for. Was it a Kick in the Pants speech, hell yes. Would I do it again, probably not. Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
i personally thought the bit when your voice broke when you started talking about how long you had been fighting against us and how rise hadn't been doing so for very long by comparison was really touching, it was like this deep vein of misery and hopelessness that broke through the thin layer of bravado and came out for just an instant before you got it back under control and then you took it out on rise even more
your brittleness in that speech and the fix director begging for god himself to save fix from goons, those are two of our finest moments as far as the harvesting of suffering goes
especially because your speech then caused all the rise people to be unhappy and rage against you in their director forums, and then you yourself now get laughed at when you try to smack in local (and you are a famous smacktalker which is v. funny given the speech now rendering this an act of comedy for all)
anyway just a little reminiscing here good times good times happy valentines day all!
|

Talon Scorpio
Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 19:32:00 -
[167]
Edited by: Talon Scorpio on 14/02/2008 19:34:32
Originally by: Flax Volcanus
Originally by: Talon Scorpio ...
As can be seen with what is happening in NOL currently, even if RISE had been organized under strong leadership and bringing good sized fleets, it would had put off the inevitable perhaps a few weeks. By the time October came round, we had ticked off the Coalition enough by our resistence that they would simply have brought it greater numbers to take RIT regardless of what we could have mustered. We knew that and once p8 acquired the Eye of Whatsit, moral within RISE dropped through the floor.
Eye of Whatsit?
Ok.. Eye of Terror. C'mon Flax, you remember. 
|

Yaay
Reikoku Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.02.14 23:54:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Gorefacer
Originally by: Yaay
Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
It's a game, not a way of life. RISE didn't appreciate the speech because most of us didn't like being disrespected by our allies, if what you say is true and BoB pilots are conditioned to accept that kind of behavior then I'd say it all worked out for the best for both parties.
Your post is the clearest example of what Goons claim to hate about BoB on these forums. Before I'd only seen mostly jokes about "BoB is better than you", you actually sound like you believe what you type here though.
As an individual you did more to hurt RISE than help, and somehow RISE failed you.
It has nothing to do with one alliance being better than another, don't misconstrue the words. It has to do with drawing the potential of an alliance out to it's fullest.
You have 2 choices when facing criticism, hate the person who says it, or learn from what is being told in an effort to improve.
You do not push people to preform at the level you know they're capable of, you push them to exceed their own beliefs. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=619019IT'S THE ECONOMY STUPID |

Devian 666
Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 00:15:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Yaay The problem with the Rise guys who are bitter about some speech that was made is that that they don't want to think for 2 seconds that it was done with any good intentions.
So what you're saying is that the effect of the speech was different from the intention.
Originally by: Darkrydar Oh and killboard loss arguments are so 2005.
|

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 03:06:00 -
[170]
Edited by: Flax Volcanus on 15/02/2008 03:20:23
Originally by: Yaay The problem with the Rise guys who are bitter about some speech that was made is that that they don't want to think for 2 seconds that it was done with any good intentions. If you stopped to think for 2 seconds, maybe you'd realize that my "disresepect" was maybe just an outsiders opinion of where to improve. But instead, it's far to easy to just scapegoat.
Ah, ofc! We're the ones who are mistaken! How could we be so foolish? Wow, good thing we didn't give a rat's ass about what your "outsider's opinion" was.  |

Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 08:06:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Yaay Edited by: Yaay on 14/02/2008 23:56:47
Originally by: Gorefacer
Originally by: Yaay
Rise and most alliances aren't used to the hardcore life that Bobbits have. Criticisms that BOB pilots get are expected because they are expected to be the best. Smaller less organized alliances are not as adept at this life.
It's a game, not a way of life. RISE didn't appreciate the speech because most of us didn't like being disrespected by our allies, if what you say is true and BoB pilots are conditioned to accept that kind of behavior then I'd say it all worked out for the best for both parties.
Your post is the clearest example of what Goons claim to hate about BoB on these forums. Before I'd only seen mostly jokes about "BoB is better than you", you actually sound like you believe what you type here though.
As an individual you did more to hurt RISE than help, and somehow RISE failed you.
It has nothing to do with one alliance being better than another, don't misconstrue the words. It has to do with drawing the potential of an alliance out to it's fullest.
You have 2 choices when facing criticism, hate the person who says it, or learn from what is being told in an effort to improve.
You do not push people to preform at the level you know they're capable of, you push them to exceed their own beliefs.
The problem with the Rise guys who are bitter about some speech that was made is that that they don't want to think for 2 seconds that it was done with any good intentions. If you stopped to think for 2 seconds, maybe you'd realize that my "disresepect" was maybe just an outsiders opinion of where to improve. But instead, it's far to easy to just scapegoat.
Whether it's in a game or not, "speeches" like the one you made will never motivate me, just **** me off. The same type of leadership doesn't work for everyone. I believe you had good intentions when making the speech. I'm not claiming that RISE would have survived if it wasn't for your speech, so don't think I'm tossing that blame on your shoulders.
You messed up, trying to twist that fact into a RISE failure is ridiculous (we had plenty not involving you already). You had good intentions at heart, had a bad day, messed up, and said the wrong **** to the wrong group of people. No big deal, Yaay: "sorry I messed up" Ex-RISE "NP, we moved on" Hi-Fives all around.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |

Rhamnousia
Caldari Pelennor Swarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 10:13:00 -
[172]
Lots of good members I'm seeing in this here thread, heh. Glad to see y'all still alive and kicking.
Being a FC of Rise, low rank, but who gives a frak, eh? I got a bit of a story to tell myself.
To be perfectly honest, there wasn't much communication going around regarding military movement. Leaders, military wise, were constantly absent, mostly due to RL issues, which i can't and won't blame. This, after all, is still a game. But for the fights that I, myself, part-took. RISE, itself, performed quite extraordinary. We were outnumbered the majority of the time, if not all. But that's an already-well-known fact.
I didn't give a rat's ass about what's going on Council, I didn't have access to council till very late into the demise of RISE itself. I was one of the last to leave RIT triangle when everything had lost. I was the one still screaming for gang and such when morale of the troop dropped through the floor. I was trying to bring that morale up by trying to retaliate PL's nano/ECM tactic that plaguing the game atm, and RIT triangle at the time. I was still trying to get gangs going even after the call to leave Feyth was rung. I was trying to secure alliance mates' assets before my own. And even at this point, when most of our PvPers are simply burnt out, when our morale was lower than what i thought possible, we still have people joining gangs and help where they can.
My point being, RISE was a good alliance, what went wrong was the lack of proper communication, no real strategy to counter spies with counterintelligence, no real rules, more of guidelines. Yaay was certainly, but only partially, right in his post, and his speech. It's been too damn long now that i dont even remember half of what being said. But what does it matter?
Lokesh made a few good points about what really happened and overlooked by the spies because it'd make us look good and not them. That's the thing about this forum anyway, making the other guy look bad.
Leadership of RISE, i dont even want to beat on that dead horse myself, i've been told it suck by its own member, who am i to try and differ that?
what more important, to me, is the pilots that made of the RISE i knew, not some picture painted up by certain overly-pride individuals about what they have and have not accomplished in the demise of RISE, I don't have to elaborate this for you to know who I'm talking about.
The PvPers of RISE were great pilots, you should try flying with them sometimes. Ok, maybe not the goons, we dont dislike you, we hate you, period. (yes, mittani, that came from the bottom of my heart. :))
It's been long, so maybe i'll cut this post short with a few final words to an alliance once kwown as RISE, and perhaps, to this thread as well, but that's only wishful thinking, now isn't it?
Rise was a good alliance. There were certainly, without a shadow of a doubt, a lot of mistakes made. During its prime AND during its darkest hours, which ultimately, and inevitably, led to its demise. The leadership structure was loose and had no real anchor. The guys left in charge, Lokesh, Flax, Coolgamer to name a few, did what they could. They couldn't take the blame for letting the alliance die even if they wanted to. RISE as an alliance met its inevitable end simply by doing its best against the overwhelming odds that is the Coalition itself. RISE is dead. And may CAOD be your final resting place. (Maybe.) ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor.
Forever Pelennor |

GeMiPaT
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 21:18:00 -
[173]
Edited by: GeMiPaT on 15/02/2008 21:22:32 CCP... instead of asking ppl to add corp tags in forum, why don't you do that automatically upon saving of the posts in this part of the forum... hopefully I saved my post in a text file. ------------ restart of what has been deleted ------
Hi here, to ex-rise and others.
The initial post is rather good and accurate on what happened except for bob. There is probably more to be said though as the ones writing here are not talking from the beginning when we joined RHG and BOB blue list. I also agree with coolgamer and not because we are in the same corp ;)
For the records, our corp was in RISE since the time we were still in the West (when we merged our little alliance GA to them) until the end of RHG. so a little more than a year probably.
When we went there, the GBC was attacked in that region in the week or two that followed. We resisted to that and all the attacks were repelled with or without the help of BOB (without on P8 gate camping or with like the RA MS killed), people coming to RHG were going back in pod at best. At that time we had less corporations, lots of good fighters and some good FCs. Then BOB took back the south and started to threaten the north. We had some time then to imagine we could take part of the KOS space as it could help bob and help us gain some free ground. I was not really happy with that and would have preferred that our combat pilots followed the bob fleets rather than go for that but a council decision is a council decision so they started that madness. At that time we should have invested a lot more money into our own defenses like P8 and other home systems as well as in the systems that linked us to our allies towards AZN. We didn't. all budget money from RISE was used to start to plant POs in KOS space and reimburse individual PVP losses, taking the same timing to what BOB was doing in some other systems up north at the same time. Things were going well up to the point when we started to feel some pressure back on us, more and more pressure and then BOB starting to retreat again. Instead of taking back those towers and retreat as well (like bob did) and hopefully have those POSes defending our systems, the council decided for a long while to continue that plan even when it started to look completely irrealistic and that almost no people were showing up to follow the fleet to KW, I remember like Flax some days when I went completely mad about what was written on commands, council and other secrets rooms. I was really sick about it but once again, the council decides by number of votes and lots of people in the council had big teeths growing not knowing or ignoring our real internal weak situation and "international or intersollars as you wish" situation. A very few people saw it coming, but nobody listened to us (I'm proud to say RES saw it coming for a long time even if it doesn't help today), we (RES) were even told that we were spending too much money in POS Fuel while we were struggling to have it on time and didn't had enough to cover what should have been covered. But well, things were still ok for RISE back then, it was just an expansive battle that we were slowly loosing with KOS, nothing too big. But at the same time we started to have some more small corps not yet ready for full ops and old corps started to loose members, often the good ones.
Then bob started to retreat further south and even further west. And then comes the PL (I won't say it again, what says Shadoo and Coolgamer is the truth), we had some good fights in the very beginning with them (PL were good pilots really), then we started to lack pilots to defend (classic to any alliance going slowly down), people being sacked because they did a wrong op as a commander, some other being sacked because they wanted to shout at the council, etc... (some traitors too) AND also what others are saying... --- to be followed in next post --- RES PUBLICA Ticker: RES |

GeMiPaT
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 21:19:00 -
[174]
AND also what others are saying... the order from the military and council to go out of RHG and raid either with bob or in KOS or... I don't know where... this completely killed our defenses. At that time our corp alone had to maintain alive more than 20 POS, so RES stayed in RHG mostly to refuel and take part of the logistics with some other very dedicated pilots to POS counterspam, fuel pos (and that has been some real sport at some times), pos defense gunners (lots of ennemy ships went down because of this but we lacked our own fleet (gone away to raid...) to help us keep the POSes and be 100% efficient in defense. Sometimes we simply lacked people to armor or hull rep... at that time, we saw BOB coming some times and it was a real relief for us. We could have liked to see them more on some occasions but I still believe that the communication between RISE and BOB was probably not enough to clearly say when it was vital to see them and when it was not. I cannot say for sure, I wasn't part of those discussions. Neither was I part of rent discussion but from what I remember, Coolgamer is right, we didn't pay all the time, bob was not asking anything back at the time that we were so smacked up in local. Also not to forget the final decision to save some assets from KW, but it was way too late to save anything significant that could have helped us in defense at that point.
I have to say that there was a lot of good pilots in RISE at the beginning, that the number started to fade away at some point and that the reasons are multiple and not only the fact that we were often attacked or camped. The logistic department done by a few corps and individuals including RES pilots has been incredible. Like saving POS at the very last hour of fuel everyday for so many weeks. I am really proud to say hi to all those people that went to empire to bring the fuel, broke the camps to bring the fuel in some other systems, doing diversions to get others where they had to and so many unbelievable stories I don't have time to relate here. The real asset of RISE at the end remained in that topic, an extraordinary logistic, some good fighters but not enough to make a difference and some good people completely lost in what their leaders told them to do. Beside that we had probably too many people wandering somewhere (god knows where), crazy decision made at a majority that I'm still wondering today how can it be that there are so many blind people......... So like coolgamer says, I would prefer an alliance that is less democratic. That democracy process really killed the determination of the pilots, killed the defense build up of RHG, the rapidity to take actions, the independance to rapidly decide something. All that has been a big mess and I'm not willing to enter an alliance that would be proud of such a democracy mechanism. It's good to ask to corp leaders where they want the alliance to be headed to but it's not good to ask them on every decision to be made even if it concerns a big part of the budget the alliance has. The utopia behind that was way too big, we needed a leader instead of council decisions. We also needed some Commanders for the fights but we lost them alsmot all before the end and the remaining ones were scared (and I understand them) of asking too big sacrifices to the troops. Something coming again from alliance policy and council watching over commanders shoulders, something I never admitted as a good way of managing the military wing of an alliance that wanted to fight originally while moving to RHG.
--- to be followed --- RES PUBLICA Ticker: RES |

GeMiPaT
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.15 21:22:00 -
[175]
For BOB, I will never say something bad about them because the renting of RHG was part of the deal, we came there for that and we knew that there was a war going on. The kind of war that divides the map in 2 big coalitions. We played the south, we lost but we were happy to fight on that side because we choosed it. Fighting with some of the alliance of the North-West or the east would have been a very bad pick for me, I would probably have left my corp if we did it. I know bob was probably not always taking care of the renters but their goal was much bigger than defending the renters. a 6b bill for RHG certainly didn't include anything else than being able to enrich ourselves in that very rich region. I never understood ppl smacking at us "hey bob is not coming to defend you", well no, that was not part of the contract but we are glad they did it on occasions. Now if you want to criticize bob attitude on that subject, I would say they did really good, their only mistake has probably been not to enroll the renters with them in real operations and real integration into a coalition of alliances to fight efficiently against high numbers. If we take RISE as an example, we could probably have lasted and helped them much longer if we had some commanders (I know they have tons of good commanders) taking our fleets with them and defend our territory as well as more advices on defences, links with other renters and all that... Bob has probably not believed enough in other small and medium alliances being able to help them at one point, that's my only regret but surely not something bad about them, big alliances like that have their own goals. RISE was ready to help on many occasions and often we stayed waiting for nothing or the action happened before we know there was something to happen. I believe now that what remains from the south defences are more playing like '1' but that was not the case at that time, that's probably a mistake that has been done back then, time will tell.
For RISE. It has been good, I took a lot of fun in fights during the 6-8 first months then became a monk in logistic/pos warfare for the remaining, spending incredible nights that I enjoyed a lot. I regret that we lost so many good FCs for silly reasons and that we lost no long teeths council members, that should have been the opposite. Good peoples, good fights, good memories, bad administration and decision making process. I was happy the day I requested my accesses to be revoked so that I would only see the 'little guy' sections only. It was really bad for my health to read all that.... b****s***t and following that, also a relief to leave the alliance when it relocated to the west. We did our job until the end (the end of RHG at least, nothing was really important after that)
For RES, well I'm still impressed we were able to do all that with a mid size corp, although we lost the territory, it is a kind of victory for the individuals of our corp, we were able to see our potential.
For the ennemies, good fights to PL well present in this thread, almost the only ones that really did the difference down there as they didn't need the numbers to achieve something very significant against RISE like others had to. (shadoo we know it was annoying not to fight, that was part of the strategy but I'm sure you had good laughing times too).
For the others that believe they know but were not there. pleaaaase stop smacking and dreaming about what it could have been or not.
RES PUBLICA Ticker: RES |

Rhamnousia
Caldari Pelennor Swarm
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 05:15:00 -
[176]
Originally by: GeMiPaT
For the others that believe they know but were not there. pleaaaase stop smacking and dreaming about what it could have been or not.
that.
Gemipat, howdy mate? :)
Gem summed it up pretty neatly. really. and that's as short as it ever gonna get.
+1 for an old mate. what these RES guys did in RIT triangle was the impossible itself. ---------------------- What happens in Pelennor stays in Pelennor.
Forever Pelennor |

yar'gdargen
Dawn of Fire Ka-Tet
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 07:09:00 -
[177]
Edited by: yar''gdargen on 16/02/2008 07:11:09 I give lokesh a good amount of credit. Seemed to me, as one of the fighters, that he was really trying to get us back up to strength. The forums being only a part of his contribution, but the most easily seen by spies and third parties (GOONS).
RISE was fun, except towards the end being at times one of the few integrating with bob gangs and seeing first hand that the alliance was far from what it used to be.
edit: i saw res put in a strong effort to the end +++++++++++==========+++++++++++ I haven't found many ways to win but a crap-ton of ways not to.
|

Coolgamer
Minmatar Res Publica
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 08:01:00 -
[178]
Originally by: GeMiPaT For BOB, I will never say something bad about them because the renting of RHG was part of the deal, we came there for that and we knew that there was a war going on. The kind of war that divides the map in 2 big coalitions. We played the south, we lost but we were happy to fight on that side because we choosed it.
This is a typical example of eve politics since almost 2 years, show how the system worked for bob pets. Many people were given, like us, the ability to hold space, while we would have probably - even certainly^^- not been able to get it ourselves.
This obviously also apply for all RSF little alliances or corps that circle around RA-Goon-TCF.
There is no bads and goods nor evil in this war (outgame forum war is another subject i wont discuss^^), just people who want to have fun and you cant blame them if they fail at what they do ingame or not, because honestly i *beeeep* dont care about what you think, we had fun killing and loosing stuff and this will always be the only purpose of this game for 99% ppl here ^^
Rise is dead like so many before, but not the friendship that was in there, blue one day red the other one, and many friends over the galaxies  ---
|

KardonHarman
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 09:41:00 -
[179]
Edited by: KardonHarman on 16/02/2008 09:42:29
Quote: For the ennemies, good fights to PL well present in this thread, almost the only ones that really did the difference down there as they didn't need the numbers to achieve something very significant against RISE like others had to. (shadoo we know it was annoying not to fight, that was part of the strategy but I'm sure you had good laughing times too).
I tend to stay out of CAOD nowadays, but wanted to post to this to clear up some half truths from some posters.
I lived in RIT area for a mumber of weeks in my Falcon, during that time RISE did put up some great fights, It was noticable to me that it was the same pilots almost everytime that came out to try to fight or rep their station services, while others we never ever saw undocked.
A lot of the time it was quite boring in RIT, us cloaked watching and RISE docked up, at those times we had some good chats and laughs, there was very little nastiness that I saw. It is a shame that those from RISE who did fight were not joined by their greater number of fellow alliance members who stayed docked, if they had the job we were doing would have been much harder and taken much longer.
PL didnt kill RISE, nor Goons, We just heped it on its way,a few active members tried to save it but it was defeated by its own members not willing to risk all.
To all those from RISE who did all you could, fly safe wherever you are and GF, to those who sat in station and let their alliance die, shame on you
|

Antfred von'Ricktofen
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 11:47:00 -
[180]
This was taken from the public section of the Sturmgrenadier website and reposted on our forums, but I thought the rest of the community would enjoy this well-written and (relatively) accurate account of what happened.
Quote: RISE's fall when they became BOB's pets
..simple story... i dont hve to read 3/4 of a page to know how/why they fall.
|

Flax Volcanus
Shadow Of The Light Scorched Earth Directive
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 16:43:00 -
[181]
Originally by: KardonHarman PL didnt kill RISE, nor Goons, We just heped it on its way,a few active members tried to save it but it was defeated by its own members not willing to risk all.
To all those from RISE who did all you could, fly safe wherever you are and GF, to those who sat in station and let their alliance die, shame on you
+1, and thanks. 
|

Director Stoned
Band of Developers
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 17:35:00 -
[182]
please can we just let this thread die now Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |

YouShallKnowFear
Fourty-Two
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 19:00:00 -
[183]
Originally by: arghy steelwill I remember slugging it day in and day out with BoB after LV collapsed, i remember finally pushing them back and looking up to see all you useless pets smacking like you've actually accomplished something to deserve the best space in EVE.
http://www.killboard.net/player/arghy%20steelwill/
"Slugging it"? I really hope this isn't your main.
|

amagonsan
Minmatar Perpetual Reality Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 22:21:00 -
[184]
I still think disbanding R I S E was a bad idea, but as my previous corp was just a trail-member we had no say in it.. whats done is done. People should have looked to the future to what possiability's where still there. As a human spiecies we learn from our mistakes, improve on them, and overcome them. This was what Rise was all about, but people lost track of that. Even trough Rise lost everything that they had, they could have still continued on, they had alot of friends eager to welcome them, eager to help them in time of need, but the leaders of Rise chose to abbandon those friends.
BoB where not the only friends Rise had, but most have forgotten that...
Some are still fighting, in delve, most are scattered across eve, waiting for a new alliance to bring them glory and to rise above....
|

Father Dibbles
Self Aggrandisement Society
|
Posted - 2008.02.16 22:58:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Rumorsky <3 RISE I miss it.. Great read for sure.
Its amazing digging up the past, you find all sorts of wriggly little things.
Nice read though.... Although imo RISE failed for 5 completely valid and politically correct reasons:
1. Leadership was found wanting 2. RISE were paupered by BoB 3. Flashies came and RISE starved 4. In the darkest hour, hopes were raised and dashed, BoB didn't come 5. EnJe wasn't running the alliance
|

sableye
principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2008.02.17 07:21:00 -
[186]
to behonest rise should have gone back to outer ring :) well I can dream
Join The Fight With Promo Today View The North Star! |
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 :: [one page] |