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Colonel Katsumoto
Jupiter Mining Corp. Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 03:50:00 -
[91]
Let me know when they change the stupid +5% kinetic missle damage bonus on caldari ships to a +5% all around damage bonus and ill be happy.
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Blutreiter
Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades
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Posted - 2008.02.02 04:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease.
I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em!
YESDFSAJKLFSJKLASFJKL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Tracking Disruptor love. my joy cannot be contained in text.
HALLELUJA! \o/ *cough* *wheeze*
Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sh*t up
Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.02 04:38:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Grimpak on 02/02/2008 04:39:31
Originally by: Xerpex Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:17:05 Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:13:52 Yah deimos haters shut up, it won't be a subpar hac anymore.
edit: the rep bonus is there because of the brutix.
Now it matches the brutix as a blastership (with a bit more agility). Before the brutix outclassed it in all except for agility, which after the bc agility boost wasn't worth the extra cost. Unless you're in a corp that "doesn't do t1" (whether implicit or explicit) but then you're a dummy haha lol.
ok let's put it this way:
a 6/4/5 deimos with rep bonus means that you lose the mwd bonus.
that means less cap.
to get over that loss of cap, you need to slap the injector. step 1 solved.
now that the ship has only 5 lows instead of 6, you need some sort of tank since you cannot go the "full-gank-no-tank" way (wich was perfectly fine btw), so you slap a med repper. step 2 solved.
now to deal with the inherent stupidly short range of the blasters, you need a mwd. step 3 solved.
after all these essential modules being fitted (because that's what CCP wants us to do anyways) we are left with just barely enough grid to slap electrons in the ship.
....and that's without slapping a plate and a med nos in that 6th high slot.
where does that leave us?
well, let's just say that the damage dealt by a tanked electron deimos (sans drones) is 300 dps.
sounds nice, but an ishtar will do far more damage than a deimos now, wich is supposed to be a purely gank ship.
tbh if they want to change slots, swap that useless 6th high slot and leave the low slots AND the mwd bonus alone.
...unless of course they want us to nano it, since it will have the same slot setup as the vagabond now and not so large difference in speed, mass and agility ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Kadoes Khan
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Posted - 2008.02.02 04:47:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease.
I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em!
...
Holy ****.
-=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity." |
Xequecal
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Posted - 2008.02.02 04:47:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 04:48:22
Originally by: Grimpak stuff
The Deimos on SiSi has 1625 base capacitor now. (up from 1375) It has more cap than the Amarr HACs. Stop whining about losing a bonus.
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Twilight Mourning
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Posted - 2008.02.02 04:53:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 04:48:22
Originally by: Grimpak stuff
The Deimos on SiSi has 1625 base capacitor now. (up from 1375) It has more cap than the Amarr HACs. Stop whining about losing a bonus.
Shhh you can't bring up the good stuff that they are doing! It will ruin the Gallente's arguments! Now we can't have that. Just ask them, only Amarr are allowed to be nerfed. Everyone else is supposed to be boosted!
pfft
Nerf > Gallente < CCP .... Or something.
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Grimpak
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2008.02.02 04:56:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 04:48:22
Originally by: Grimpak stuff
The Deimos on SiSi has 1625 base capacitor now. (up from 1375) It has more cap than the Amarr HACs. Stop whining about losing a bonus.
ok fine, they boosted the capacitor of the ship.
but the capacitor of the deimos is still bigger (1719) and it's still unstable.
yes fit an injector, wich leaves 0 space to fit neutrons, but that doesn't matter now since you can't gank fit the ship without any sort of buffer anyways.
point still stands. take that 6th high slot, but don't change the low-slot setup nor the mwd bonus. ---
planetary interaction idea! |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.02 05:13:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease.
I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em!
What higher teir frigates do a couple hundred dps at 20km?
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Julius Romanus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.02 05:52:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease.
I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em!
What higher teir frigates do a couple hundred dps at 20km?
Your math skills are a lot more sound than mine. But from what i'm seeing a well skilled vaga with 220's and 2x dmg mods puts out about 300 gun dps with barrage @ 2.6+21.
Using an unscripted TD(because i dont know how scripts affect the current TD on sisi for fallof) you're taking about 25% off optimal and falloff. Which gives something like 1.9+15.75. As I understand the tracking guide that would put the gun dps somewhere around 30% of listed or around 90 @ 20km.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.02 06:09:00 -
[100]
And drones. Also not figuring falloff rigs if there are any.
Figure 1/3 dps on the guns roughly and 100 DPS from drones. 200 DPS.
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Julius Romanus
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.02 06:24:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Goumindong And drones. Also not figuring falloff rigs if there are any.
Figure 1/3 dps on the guns roughly and 100 DPS from drones. 200 DPS.
Still, thats not half bad at all for a single unbonused unscripted TD(i used skills at 4). 3 of them on a curse would do quite nicely I should think.
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ThaMa Gebir
Gallente Raddick Explorations
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Posted - 2008.02.02 06:26:00 -
[102]
Well with regards to the deimos, I have decided to look at the description again;
Quote: Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts,
I have now figured it out, that's the tank they were on about.
Quote: the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat.
Oops, they missed it, it was supposed to be****abong.
Quote: Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee.
Surely that should be "if you venture too close IN this one...."
Silly changes. ----------------------------
Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........
Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
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goodby4u
Logistic Technologies Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.02.02 06:35:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Hannobaal These are actually good changes. I like.
Ive seen demios pilots thrilled about 4 mids on sisi. Im not sure if everyone is giving this a chance or just put their flame-hats on just for the heck of it.
Dont know,tbh even though i dont fly the ship this could be a good way to help its cap issues...I like it changed. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth |
Byzan Zwyth
Dark Centuri Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 06:44:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 01/02/2008 23:43:50
Originally by: Byzan Zwyth cyclone needs another one too
/signed
Cyclone is worthless compared to the Hurricane, and needs at least a 6th, if not 7th gun just as badly as the Ferox did.
Originally by: kessah The Apoc needs more CPU and a bigger drone bay. It needs these things because the reliance on drones for battleships "Especially ones without dmg bonuses" has become so much more.
Opt range bonus though is spot on.
No. This is utterly insane. The Apoc is now a top-tier fleet sniper, with strong arguments for being the best one. With that optimal range bonus, it completely obsoletes the Megathron (more DPS with more range and more tracking), almost does the same to the Minmatar ships with only alpha really keeping them useful, and obsoletes the Rokh in the majority of fleet engagements where the Rokh can't use its superior range.
Adding 50m3 of drones to the Apoc would create the most broken unbalanced battleship in the game.
Hate to QFT the person who used to take ore off me when I was a noob but it's true. With this change the Apoc will become arguably one of the top battleships in the game, I dont see why it needs to be upgraded from that to something without a weakness. Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint |
jeikam
VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 08:04:00 -
[105]
Originally by: N1fty Seriously guys, get real, its not that Gallente is overpowered, its that Omni tanks and stacking nerfs' broke Amarr damage while the HP boosts exposed the cap weaknesses.
This mostly bypassed Gallente who benefitted from the DCU's and the fact that most of their ships can afford to fit a cap booster with mwd and full tackle.
Amarr are being brought back to what they used to be. Damage and Armour.
Not that most of these whiners would know anything about what Amarr used to be.
ABSOLUTELY what this man says about the bigger picture.
I maxxed Amarr ships and lasers when I started playing the game only to be forced to cross train because my beloved Amarr got shafted. So then I just cross trained every races T2 ship (other than Marauders and Black-Ops, but meh) and its T2 weapon, nerfing problem solved!
Though I should be impartial I'm rather pleased at these Amarr changes... Eve just like life goes full circle...
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Ogdru Jahad
Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative
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Posted - 2008.02.02 08:11:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Riho ok.. been playing around whit some of the changes (zealot)
and no.. the 5th turret slot didnt make it OP... its even harder to fit this ship whit t2 now :P (decent fit)
but its ok... can be worked on :)
so far i aint impressed with the zealot.
my fitting for ****s and giggles was.
5x Heavy beams II AB10 II, Stasis II, Cap Recharger. 1x MAR II, 3 active hardeners, 1x HS II, 2x CPR II
well i only managed to fit it all with 4 pg to spare. no room for laser rigs AT ALL! more so if you do not have AWU V. also it now caps out very easyily where as before it did not.
as for the apoc? with one cap rig of any sort and 2 armour rigs it seems fine with 8x MP II. cap use was like 15 each. still wont fit 8 tachs. -
At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
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Akane Miyamoto
Paisti Paisti Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 08:29:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Erayo I just hope they don't mess up Ishtar.
I'd rather see them nerf the nanoishtar than this change ---------------
The Miyamotos, Chapter #1.5 |
Setana Manoro
Gallente Firefly Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 08:47:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Augeas
Quote: tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm?
It's a terrible ship, that's what its problem is. Against a tier 2 BC, it's just fancily packed loot and salvage. I love seeing Deimos on scan.
HACS are not meant to omgwtfpwn tier 2 bc's. Zealot with extra turret, if those are the only changes to the zealot, it's gonna be very very tough to fit, and it's cap is gonna be even more unstable. CCP, get this ... DRONE BAY, not extra turret. Similar dps increase, but flexibility and more cap stability, and you won't need to boost the CPU, again, just so that it can be fitted.
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Leandro Salazar
The Blackguard Wolves
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Posted - 2008.02.02 08:57:00 -
[109]
Just wondering, did the Navy Apoc get the same treatment?
There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones |
Liang Nuren
The Avalon Foundation
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:08:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Setana Manoro DRONE BAY, not extra turret.
I'd rather see an extra turret and fittings.
-Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt.
Update: I bought a Datahand for RSI, and I now suck at typing (so I don't post as much) |
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:12:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Setana Manoro DRONE BAY, not extra turret.
I'd rather see an extra turret and fittings.
-Liang
Goumindong disagrees in that it needs extra fittings, but since I don't like fitting webs to ships that can't really tank outside of webrange, I agree with you.
Not a whole crapload of extra fittings, but a decent amount more CPU, a little more PG, and especially a little bit more cap, *especially* because it has problems fitting an injector (strict fitting requirements, tiny cargohold). __________________________________
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Siona S'kar
Amarr Galactic Confederation ICARUS Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:27:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Xerpex Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:17:05 Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:13:52 Yah deimos haters shut up, it won't be a subpar hac anymore.
edit: the rep bonus is there because of the brutix.
Now it matches the brutix as a blastership (with a bit more agility). Before the brutix outclassed it in all except for agility, which after the bc agility boost wasn't worth the extra cost. Unless you're in a corp that "doesn't do t1" (whether implicit or explicit) but then you're a dummy haha lol.
Its ment to be like the Thorax you dipwad.
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Breed Love
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:28:00 -
[113]
Stop whining about the deimos changes ffs, for once they are about to make the ship usable for what it's supposed to do, and you want to ruin that. And yes, that 6th hi-slot is useful. -----
Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
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Johan Quinn
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:39:00 -
[114]
The change does make the Deimos a pointless ship. Want to tank? Get a Phobos, it can fit electrons and Booster and tank better. Want to Gank, might as well fly a Brutix, now, yeah the resists are not as good. but when you die you aint lost a load of cash. Is kind a pointless change, Deimos was fine as it was, if you wanted to fit a booster you just had to sacrifice some tackle. I dont really get were they are coming from tbh.
Ammar Changes are great although things will go round in circles. All the FOTM pilots will be training them like they did Vagas. TBH i was gonna train Amarr for the challenge of flying them but now im not to sure!!
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Breed Love
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.02 09:55:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Johan Quinn The change does make the Deimos a pointless ship. Want to tank? Get a Phobos, it can fit electrons and Booster and tank better. Want to Gank, might as well fly a Brutix, now, yeah the resists are not as good. but when you die you aint lost a load of cash. Is kind a pointless change, Deimos was fine as it was, if you wanted to fit a booster you just had to sacrifice some tackle. I dont really get were they are coming from tbh.
They were coming from some actual pvp knowledge (believe it or not, they know a thing or two about it), unlike most whiners here who have absolutely zero clue.
Deimos is mediocre at everything you try to do with it atm, on sisi however it is a great solo roaming ship. Hopefully it will stay that way and the changes will make it to tq. -----
Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
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Sennju Zensu
Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:24:00 -
[116]
i dont know if that's good or not for the deimos, with that repair bonus we will fitt a med repair on it, but less capacitor +1 med, so we will fitt one cap booster, so need some booster in cargo...
You should make the deimos cargo bigger then...
And what about grid? if we have one less Low slot can't fitt a RCU or PDS, but we need to fitt a Medium cap booster...or Battery....
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Breed Love
FinFleet Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:29:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Johan Quinn I PVP all the time, to the point were i sell GTC so i dont have to do anything else. Solo ship is great in Sisi (oh yeah sisi is real PVP) but as CCP are nerfing Solo PVP to hell it doesnt really work. ATM the Deimos is fine, its a upgunned thorax. When you get in a Deimos you accept your going to kill or be killed. It is easy to solo on sisi before the change with it. If you cant actually do anything with the deimos then your doing something wrong, it is a fine ship. The Ability to have a 4th mid is nice, but loosing a low slot is a stupid idea, loose the high instead.
Maybe the biggest problem with the current deimos is just that it is "an upgunned thorax"? Because a thorax is kinda suicidal with the standard fit, and while its fine for a 5 mil tech one cruiser, it doesnt really work well on a 100mil hac. Maybe some people don't like the idea of being killed and just want to kill?
Besides, I didnt say deimos can't do anything, I said it was mediocre at what it did. So-so in gangs, because of the need to fly your whole ship to the target with a blaster fit, so-so at solo roaming because of cap issues.
5/4/6 would be nice too, but I dont think its gonna happen. Besides, a 6th hi-slot is useful, so its pretty good either way. -----
Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
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Maleagent
Amarr Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:35:00 -
[118]
Its quite tight fitting for the Zealot but you can do something interesting
High Slot : 5*Heavy pulse TII
Medium 1 warp disruptor TII 1 cap recharge TII 1 MWD TII
Low slot: 1 small armor repair TII 1 800 plate rolled tungsten 1 EANM TII 1 ANP TII 1 DC tII 2 HEat sink TII
History is a bunch of lies that we all agree on. |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:42:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Leandro Salazar Just wondering, did the Navy Apoc get the same treatment?
Current showing on test server has the Navy and Imperial Apocs both unchanged, but I'd certainly hope they'd correct this before TQ patch. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot." |
James Draekn
X.E.N.O.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 10:52:00 -
[120]
I like the idea of the Deimos getting a 6 mid slot, but not at the expense of a low slot. The repper bonus is nice, although the problem with HACs is the lack of hit points to allow a repper to run long enough to make a difference in a fight. A battlecruiser has enough hit points to absorb damage and let the repper start to generate a defense (actively). A better change for the deimos, if you are looking to accomplish the following goals: More cap stable, More tank, injector fit
Highs - 5 (turrets) Mids - 4 (increase grid to allow fitting of IONs and injector) Lows - 6
Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level (increase base cap to compensate for the loss of MWD bonus)
Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level
The Deimos needs to have a passive armor bonus as that is more effective then a active one. When you start fitting a repper, MWD and blasters cap usuage is huge. A injector will help with the problem, but the capacitor quantity is to small to provide a buffer against all the mods operating and NOS/NUET warfare. The resistance bonus acknowledges that blaster boats are in NOS/NUET range running a MWD and using blaster which eat a ton of cap, so if your tank requires you to heavily use a repper you cap out. Not to mention the lack of a hit point buffer to let the repper make any kind of difference.
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