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Some new ship changes on SISI: Apoc, Zealot, Deimos, Omen

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Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:40:00 - [1] just hopped on SISI, thought Id post here since not many people go to the game dev forum. Apoc gets its 5% cap bonus built in for 25% more cap. +1000 pg. The cap bonus is changed to a 7.5% optimal range bonus. Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. Zealot and Omen both get 5 turrets, but no extra fittings at this time. Discuss and post any other changes you find. Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:47:00 - [2] Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 21:48:10 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. WHAT??????????? dude, the deimos is FINE as it is. what the hell am I supposed to fit in that med slot now that I've lost tank (wich was crap anyways..)? a cap charger? at most is the useless 6th high slot that should be moved and not a low slot. --- planetary interaction idea!
Emperor D'Hoffryn No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:51:00 - [3] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 21:48:10 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. WHAT??????????? dude, the deimos is FINE as it is. what the hell am I supposed to fit in that med slot now that I've lost tank (wich was crap anyways..)? a cap charger? at most is the useless 6th high slot that should be moved and not a low slot. Im thinking that the idea was your meds would be: mwd, web, scram, cap injector. Not sure how much you need a cap injector with a tank what has to compete with damage mods all within 5 slots.... shield extended nano deimoses? Originally by: Meridius Dex I could actually fit a Thorax WITH LASERS and get better DPS, better speed, better tank and - wait for it - better cap stability
Erayo	Posted - 2008.02.01 21:52:00 - [4] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 21:48:10 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. WHAT??????????? dude, the deimos is FINE as it is. what the hell am I supposed to fit in that med slot now that I've lost tank (wich was crap anyways..)? a cap charger? at most is the useless 6th high slot that should be moved and not a low slot. I wonder what the reasons for the change was. There was no complaints about the deimos in the amarr whine forums - has there?
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:00:00 - [5] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 21:48:10 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. WHAT??????????? dude, the deimos is FINE as it is. what the hell am I supposed to fit in that med slot now that I've lost tank (wich was crap anyways..)? a cap charger? at most is the useless 6th high slot that should be moved and not a low slot. Im thinking that the idea was your meds would be: mwd, web, scram, cap injector. Not sure how much you need a cap injector with a tank what has to compete with damage mods all within 5 slots.... shield extended nano deimoses? good luck fitting an injector with a gank fit, wich has no cap problems unless you want to have all modules working --- planetary interaction idea!
Willy Joe	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:00:00 - [6] I guess they were just trying to balance out the damage on gank HACs or something like that .
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:02:00 - [7] The Eagle, Moa and Ferox now also have another turret. Eagle is now the undisputed king of anti-support. Apoc is now the undisupted king of sniping.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:08:00 - [8] Originally by: Willy Joe I guess they were just trying to balance out the damage on gank HACs or something like that . the deimos in gank fit is a freakin' glass cannon. I see no reasoning of why the ship needs a low slot traded for a med slot. --- planetary interaction idea!
Telonia Reis	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:09:00 - [9] Hmmm, the apoc has changed into perhaps a descent sniper platform. I don't know if the 1000 PG will be enough, but it sounds pretty good so far. Anybody out there who has the time to dissect this want to pipe in? Xeq or Gou? I am a closet amarr fan, but I don't know enough about the race to make much of an opinion beyond the khanid ships. The deimos is shifting too much into vaga territory imo, I liked the unique style of the deimos. The omen/zealot getting a 5th slot could get dangerous, but the fitting will probably be ugly. AWU 5 seems to be almost required to make these ships perform, but I might be wrong there.
Riho Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:13:00 - [10] ok.. been playing around whit some of the changes (zealot) and no.. the 5th turret slot didnt make it OP... its even harder to fit this ship whit t2 now :P (decent fit) but its ok... can be worked on :) ---------------------------------- This is Me
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Telonia Reis The deimos is shifting too much into vaga territory imo, I liked the unique style of the deimos. nope it's not. they are making it into a mini-brutix Originally by: Pociomundo Edited by: Pociomundo on 01/02/2008 22:05:27 Lost one low slow and gained a mid slot. MWD Bonus is GONE (Capacitor is now 1523 as opposed to 1718 on TQ with an MWD), replaced bonus with 7.5% to effectiveness of armour repairer. from the development part. --- planetary interaction idea!
Erayo	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:19:00 - [12] Originally by: Grimpak they are making it into a mini-brutix. The Ishtar is a mini-Dominix. Somethings not right
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:21:00 - [13] Originally by: Erayo Originally by: Grimpak they are making it into a mini-brutix. The Ishtar is a mini-Dominix. Somethings not right so they kill the ultimate short range gank cruised just to give it a bit more tank and less damage? tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? --- planetary interaction idea!
Deva Blackfire D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:22:00 - [14] Originally by: Grimpak so they kill the ultimate short range gank cruised just to give it a bit more tank and less damage? tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? Looks almost like sacri before khanid mk2 :D
Pans Exual	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:24:00 - [15] Deimos was a glass cannon... the deimos' tank was its damage. Now they reduced it to 5 slots in lows, added a worthless mid, and gave it a stupid tanking bonus. Now it's like every other cruiser out there. I liked the glass cannon.
Erayo	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:26:00 - [16] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Erayo Originally by: Grimpak they are making it into a mini-brutix. The Ishtar is a mini-Dominix. Somethings not right so they kill the ultimate short range gank cruised just to give it a bit more tank and less damage? tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's still the ultimate short range gank cruise with more ewar and tank Though I agree it might have troubles getting into short range.
Pans Exual	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:27:00 - [17] More tank? How so? If you figure 2-3 mag stabs, it still tanks like garbage. Should leave it as a gank cruiser. This is NOT a boost.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:30:00 - [18] Originally by: Erayo Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Erayo Originally by: Grimpak they are making it into a mini-brutix. The Ishtar is a mini-Dominix. Somethings not right so they kill the ultimate short range gank cruised just to give it a bit more tank and less damage? tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's still the ultimate short range gank cruise with more ewar and tank Though I agree it might have troubles getting into short range. if fittings are not changed, you need to downgrade to electrons to fit mwd, MAR and injector. --- planetary interaction idea!
Erayo	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:32:00 - [19] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Erayo Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Erayo Originally by: Grimpak they are making it into a mini-brutix. The Ishtar is a mini-Dominix. Somethings not right so they kill the ultimate short range gank cruised just to give it a bit more tank and less damage? tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's still the ultimate short range gank cruise with more ewar and tank Though I agree it might have troubles getting into short range. if fittings are not changed, you need to downgrade to electrons to fit mwd, MAR and injector. Oh sorry, didn't take fitting restrictions into account
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:35:00 - [20] deimos with a 4th mid slot would definitly make it overpowered. I fly mainly a deimos and I know its main weakness is its cap, now with an injector it is perfect. who cares if it has to lose a hardener or an eanm if it could now zoom around and whack everyone up while repping non stop.
Anjar Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:37:00 - [21] Every time i fly my deimos in pvp, the repper gets maybe 1 cycle before either I die or my target dies. The cap is horribly unstable as it is. now my beloved deimos uses more cap than it did before(mwd bonus gone) and its new bonus is only useful for 1 cycle. The only way to set it up now is with a cap injector which is a problem because it doesnt have enough grid or cpu. my favorite ship in the game which was already very difficult to fly is now completely useless. it will either pop before it gets in gun range or it will be cap dead. who wants my stuff
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 21:48:10 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. WHAT??????????? dude, the deimos is FINE as it is. what the hell am I supposed to fit in that med slot now that I've lost tank (wich was crap anyways..)? a cap charger? at most is the useless 6th high slot that should be moved and not a low slot. But there arent that many flying deimoses. I see them rarely. I think ccp is trying to do something good. Maybe a pg tweak for fitting might do the trick? Or something else. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:38:00 - [23] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko deimos with a 4th mid slot would definitly make it overpowered. I fly mainly a deimos and I know its main weakness is its cap, now with an injector it is perfect. who cares if it has to lose a hardener or an eanm if it could now zoom around and whack everyone up while repping non stop. I think this is what ccp had in mind because deimos isnt really that popular afaik. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
Pans Exual	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:39:00 - [24] If you give a fourth mid and reduce cap, youre forcing deimos pilots to fit an injector. If you fit an injector, you're going to have to fit less grid use elsewhere. This is garbage.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:42:00 - [25] Ow, there goes my favorite ship. _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 01/02/2008 21:48:10 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. WHAT??????????? dude, the deimos is FINE as it is. what the hell am I supposed to fit in that med slot now that I've lost tank (wich was crap anyways..)? a cap charger? at most is the useless 6th high slot that should be moved and not a low slot. But there arent that many flying deimoses. I see them rarely. I think ccp is trying to do something good. Maybe a pg tweak for fitting might do the trick? Or something else. really? my corp fields them with frequency because they are the only viable boat to dish this ungodly ammout of dps in short ammount of time (wich is, supposedly, their role), by trading off their measly tank for even less tank. the reason why many people don't fly deimoses now is because they prefer to nano the ishtar, wich is more brainless and ballness than fly a gank deimos. that's why I say that blaster ships are man's things: you need balls to fly a freakin' glass cannon to the point where you can see the enemy eye in the eye. --- planetary interaction idea!
Erayo	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:48:00 - [27] I just hope they don't mess up Ishtar.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:52:00 - [28] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko deimos with a 4th mid slot would definitly make it overpowered. I fly mainly a deimos and I know its main weakness is its cap, now with an injector it is perfect. who cares if it has to lose a hardener or an eanm if it could now zoom around and whack everyone up while repping non stop. I think this is what ccp had in mind because deimos isnt really that popular afaik. You're both wrong. If they're going through with this, its to remove some of the tanking potential of Gallente ships. One less low slot translates into one less EANM or Damage Control. That translates into less armor EM resists. It also means I can't use two relays and two CCC's for self-sustaining setup, which ****es me off because I hate how inconvenient and stupid injectors are. The Zealot damage boost is also completely unnecessary, and I bet it hurts the popularity of the Absolution pretty good _______________________________ http://epicwords.net/
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.02.01 22:53:00 - [29] Lol, CCP is in da house... again. What is wrong with guys, why chage the deimos? Change the stupid ishtar if want to change something that doesn't need to be changed. Is there even one of these guyse who make such rediculous changes, who plays this game? And what's with the deimos's DPS? Ishtar has more DPS and more free slots.
Weeka Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:02:00 - [30] Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Apoc gets its 5% cap bonus built in for 25% more cap. +1000 pg. The cap bonus is changed to a 7.5% optimal range bonus. Someone pinch me.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:13:00 - [31] Originally by: Goumindong The Eagle, Moa and Ferox now also have another turret. Eagle is now the undisputed king of anti-support. Apoc is now the undisupted king of sniping. Oh, how I wish I had been there to see your reaction to this change... guess the 5-gun Eagle isn't so insane, huh? And guess what: Caldari are the sniper race. The fact that it's taken until now for the Eagle to become the undisputed king of anti-support sniping is a pretty big problem.
NateX THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:17:00 - [32] 7 turrets on tempest plix! R0ADKILL-killboard \|
Augeas	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:26:00 - [33] Quote: tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's a terrible ship, that's what its problem is. Against a tier 2 BC, it's just fancily packed loot and salvage. I love seeing Deimos on scan.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:27:00 - [34] Edited by: Kadoes Khan on 01/02/2008 23:27:09 Quote: Zealot and Omen both get 5 turrets, but no extra fittings at this time. \o/ HOORAY! -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:28:00 - [35] cyclone needs another one too Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:29:00 - [36] Originally by: Augeas Quote: tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's a terrible ship, that's what its problem is. Against a tier 2 BC, it's just fancily packed loot and salvage. I love seeing Deimos on scan. yeah it's a fancily packed loot and salvage untill you noticed that a falcon is jamming you. then you won't like to get hurt by a neutron gank deimos. --- planetary interaction idea!
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:32:00 - [37] The Apoc needs more CPU and a bigger drone bay. It needs these things because the reliance on drones for battleships "Especially ones without dmg bonuses" has become so much more. Opt range bonus though is spot on.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:34:00 - [38] Moronic deimos change. It needed to have a highslot removed and a mid added, not a lowslot. I don't like the repper addition either.
Erayo Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:38:00 - [39] Originally by: kessah The Apoc needs more CPU and a bigger drone bay. It needs these things because the reliance on drones for battleships "Especially ones without dmg bonuses" has become so much more. Opt range bonus though is spot on. Didn't we K/O you in the other thread? Apocs already got 5 bonuses.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:38:00 - [40] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 01/02/2008 23:43:50 Originally by: Byzan Zwyth cyclone needs another one too /signed Cyclone is worthless compared to the Hurricane, and needs at least a 6th, if not 7th gun just as badly as the Ferox did. Originally by: kessah The Apoc needs more CPU and a bigger drone bay. It needs these things because the reliance on drones for battleships "Especially ones without dmg bonuses" has become so much more. Opt range bonus though is spot on. No. This is utterly insane. The Apoc is now a top-tier fleet sniper, with strong arguments for being the best one. With that optimal range bonus, it completely obsoletes the Megathron (more DPS with more range and more tracking), almost does the same to the Minmatar ships with only alpha really keeping them useful, and obsoletes the Rokh in the majority of fleet engagements where the Rokh can't use its superior range. Adding 50m3 of drones to the Apoc would create the most broken unbalanced battleship in the game.
Anjar Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Kai Lae Moronic deimos change. It needed to have a highslot removed and a mid added, not a lowslot. I don't like the repper addition either. qft
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:42:00 - [42] Edited by: kessah on 01/02/2008 23:42:17 +25 base CPU at least imho to the Apoc that is. BTW this is 4 changes in one post, ffs forum devs can we not have a separate thread for each ******* change?
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:42:00 - [43] Heh, not sure what's more stupid, the slot change, or the bonus change. Its rediculous... This will make the ship useless. Get real, please!
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:47:00 - [44] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko deimos with a 4th mid slot would definitly make it overpowered. I fly mainly a deimos and I know its main weakness is its cap, now with an injector it is perfect. who cares if it has to lose a hardener or an eanm if it could now zoom around and whack everyone up while repping non stop. I think this is what ccp had in mind because deimos isnt really that popular afaik. they changed the bonus? ****!! this is so lame CCP!!!
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:50:00 - [45] Edited by: Taguchi Hiroko on 01/02/2008 23:50:13 Originally by: DigitalCommunist Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko deimos with a 4th mid slot would definitly make it overpowered. I fly mainly a deimos and I know its main weakness is its cap, now with an injector it is perfect. who cares if it has to lose a hardener or an eanm if it could now zoom around and whack everyone up while repping non stop. I think this is what ccp had in mind because deimos isnt really that popular afaik. You're both wrong. If they're going through with this, its to remove some of the tanking potential of Gallente ships. One less low slot translates into one less EANM or Damage Control. That translates into less armor EM resists. It also means I can't use two relays and two CCC's for self-sustaining setup, which ****es me off because I hate how inconvenient and stupid injectors are. The Zealot damage boost is also completely unnecessary, and I bet it hurts the popularity of the Absolution pretty good yep, I didnt see they changed the bonus of deimos too. wtf is the point of an armor rep bonus anyways?! It looks like a thorax and should fly like one!
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:52:00 - [46] wtf. this deimos change has to be some sort of sick joke. there is nothing wrong with the deimos as it is now, it fills its role perfectly. nobody has even complained about it and they still go and change it
marie claude Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:56:00 - [47] jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? first the eos the ishtar and myrm get nerfed to thier knees now this and the armor nerf too? wtf ??? (facepalms) trinity = EPIC FAIL
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.01 23:59:00 - [48] Edited by: Phrixus Zephyr on 02/02/2008 00:02:55 Originally by: Augeas Quote: tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's a terrible ship, that's what its problem is. Against a tier 2 BC, it's just fancily packed loot and salvage. I love seeing Deimos on scan. ...and now its a **tier Brutix, how is that an improvement? . Less cap, one less low, not enough fitting to use the 4th mid and a useless 6th high. How the ** is it supposed to mwd into range when it'll use more than half its cap getting there, then it'll use the rest trying to shoot. Even with the injector, which will be a pain to fit unless you rig or drop to electrons. You still wont have enough cap for the a repper that tries to deal with your already crap armor HP because you wont be able to fit a plate either. Unbelivable.
Perfect Diamond	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:03:00 - [49] Doesn anyone know if anything else about the apoc has change. Like the base locking range shortened?
MITSUK0	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:03:00 - [50] Edited by: MITSUK0 on 02/02/2008 00:04:31 weeeeee MMO's are great huh? Spend ages perfecting your skills in <INSERT OVERPOWERED ASPECT OF THE GAME HERE> just to have the rug swept from under your feet. Gonna train up amarr now? Suck it up guys Amarr now have a good HAC and a kick ass sniper BS while been a little bit less gimped in damage type. They even made the amarr EW vaguely usefull, enjoy that falloff while you can**abonds! Edit: they filter now :(:(:(:( **abond = vagabond
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:05:00 - [51] Originally by: marie claude jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? the ishtar Stop giving Gal pilots a bad name. The Eos was overpowered, even if the nerf was little heavy handed, it still needed a nerf. The Ishtar is exactly the same.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:10:00 - [52] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: marie claude jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? the ishtar Stop giving Gal pilots a bad name. The Eos was overpowered, even if the nerf was little heavy handed, it still needed a nerf. The Ishtar is exactly the same. but the gal recons got ****** in the ass.
Phrixus Zephyr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:11:00 - [53] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: marie claude jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? the ishtar Stop giving Gal pilots a bad name. The Eos was overpowered, even if the nerf was little heavy handed, it still needed a nerf. The Ishtar is exactly the same. but the gal recons got ****** in the ass. Damp nerf made Gall recons useless yes, doesn't make your original post any less wrong.
Taguchi Hiroko Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: marie claude jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? the ishtar Stop giving Gal pilots a bad name. The Eos was overpowered, even if the nerf was little heavy handed, it still needed a nerf. The Ishtar is exactly the same. but the gal recons got ****** in the ass. Damp nerf made Gall recons useless yes, doesn't make your original post any less wrong. my original post?
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:20:00 - [55] Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: marie claude jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? the ishtar Stop giving Gal pilots a bad name. The Eos was overpowered, even if the nerf was little heavy handed, it still needed a nerf. The Ishtar is exactly the same. but the gal recons got **** in the ass. The amarr recons got **** in the ass more.
Cadiz Caldari No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:20:00 - [56] If they're going to do any slot changes to the Deimos, it should be to gut that utility high and give it a mid from that. Also, MWD cap usage bonus > armor rep effectiveness, because nobody in their right mind actively tanks a Deimos. Rest looks pretty cool, but Deimos changes are not the happytime, plzkthx. ------ Director, No Quarter "There is no problem that cannot be solved by the judicious application of violence."
Erayo Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:26:00 - [57] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Originally by: Phrixus Zephyr Originally by: marie claude jesus why dose ccp have it in for us gall pilots? the ishtar Stop giving Gal pilots a bad name. The Eos was overpowered, even if the nerf was little heavy handed, it still needed a nerf. The Ishtar is exactly the same. but the gal recons got **** in the ass. The amarr recons got **** in the ass more. The infamous answer: "The Amarr are the tanking and ganking floating rods of gold. While the Minmatar are versatile and the Caldari do electronic warfare the Amarr simply sit there and charge their lasers, secure in their knowledge that God is on their side."
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:26:00 - [58] Originally by: Cadiz If they're going to do any slot changes to the Deimos, it should be to gut that utility high and give it a mid from that. Also, MWD cap usage bonus > armor rep effectiveness, because nobody in their right mind actively tanks a Deimos. Rest looks pretty cool, but Deimos changes are not the happytime, plzkthx. my rep is most for show and fixing after fights then anything else, just like it should be. deimos is a kill or be killed kinda ship and thats why i love it so much
hellsknights RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:30:00 - [59] Im at work here, so i can't log to see changes...... They added a rep bonus to the Deimos and cahnged a low slot for a mid. Did they remove any bonuses? or just add?
Erayo Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:34:00 - [60] Originally by: hellsknights Im at work here, so i can't log to see changes...... They added a rep bonus to the Deimos and cahnged a low slot for a mid. Did they remove any bonuses? or just add? Since your at work, I guess you can't read everything(puzzles me as its stated on the first page). MWD bonus removed and Armour rep bonus added -1 Lowslot +1 midslot
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:47:00 - [61] Seriously guys, get real, its not that Gallente is overpowered, its that Omni tanks and stacking nerfs' broke Amarr damage while the HP boosts exposed the cap weaknesses. This mostly bypassed Gallente who benefitted from the DCU's and the fact that most of their ships can afford to fit a cap booster with mwd and full tackle. Amarr are being brought back to what they used to be. Damage and Armour. Not that most of these whiners would know anything about what Amarr used to be. --
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:47:00 - [62] ahahahaha eat **** gallente also where are the changes to our frigates and to the prophecy?
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:52:00 - [63] Originally by: N1fty Seriously guys, get real, its not that Gallente is overpowered, its that Omni tanks and stacking nerfs' broke Amarr damage while the HP boosts exposed the cap weaknesses. This mostly bypassed Gallente who benefitted from the DCU's and the fact that most of their ships can afford to fit a cap booster with mwd and full tackle. Amarr are being brought back to what they used to be. Damage and Armour. Not that most of these whiners would know anything about what Amarr used to be. I can agree on you in most ships. such thing however it's not true in the deimos. the deimos is a gank ship with little to no tank. hell you can even say that it's DPS is in fact it's tank, and the rest is just secondary. this change removes the deimos from that role and tries to marginally boost the already mediocre tank that the ship has. sure ok, now I have an armor rep bonus and a 4th slot to slap that cap injector. but to do that I need to downgrade to electrons. not the middle tier guns (ions) but electrons. honestly, I like the changes to the amarr ships. I really do, but they are ******* up the deimos, wich was boosted to relatively usefulness just a while ago. --- planetary interaction idea!
Dragos Mrs Royal Hiigaran Navy	Posted - 2008.02.02 00:55:00 - [64] Originally by: Grimpak I can agree on you in most ships. such thing however it's not true in the deimos. the deimos is a gank ship with little to no tank. hell you can even say that it's DPS is in fact it's tank, and the rest is just secondary. this change removes the deimos from that role and tries to marginally boost the already mediocre tank that the ship has. sure ok, now I have an armor rep bonus and a 4th slot to slap that cap injector. but to do that I need to downgrade to electrons. not the middle tier guns (ions) but electrons. honestly, I like the changes to the amarr ships. I really do, but they are ******* up the deimos, wich was boosted to relatively usefulness just a while ago. if they were going to add a rep bonus, wouldn't it logically go to the ishtar? afterall the thorax is the gank and the vexor the tank. stupid change. mediocre tank with a rep bonus is still a mediocre tank.
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Dragos Mrs if they were going to add a rep bonus, wouldn't it logically go to the ishtar? afterall the thorax is the gank and the vexor the tank. stupid change. mediocre tank with a rep bonus is still a mediocre tank. if that would stop ppl from using them as nano ships then for the love of god do it, just dont touch my deimos
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:05:00 - [66] Originally by: Dragos Mrs Originally by: Grimpak I can agree on you in most ships. such thing however it's not true in the deimos. the deimos is a gank ship with little to no tank. hell you can even say that it's DPS is in fact it's tank, and the rest is just secondary. this change removes the deimos from that role and tries to marginally boost the already mediocre tank that the ship has. sure ok, now I have an armor rep bonus and a 4th slot to slap that cap injector. but to do that I need to downgrade to electrons. not the middle tier guns (ions) but electrons. honestly, I like the changes to the amarr ships. I really do, but they are ******* up the deimos, wich was boosted to relatively usefulness just a while ago. if they were going to add a rep bonus, wouldn't it logically go to the ishtar? afterall the thorax is the gank and the vexor the tank. stupid change. mediocre tank with a rep bonus is still a mediocre tank. well I did meant that the rep bonus is useless in the deimos --- planetary interaction idea!
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:08:00 - [67] Originally by: Grimpak well I did meant that the rep bonus is useless in the deimos i think everyone agree on that, other then the guy in ccp that came up with this brilliant idea
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:10:00 - [68] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Grimpak well I did meant that the rep bonus is useless in the deimos i think everyone agree on that, other then the guy in ccp that came up with this brilliant idea actually JoJo says that the deimos is omfgwtfbbq with those stats and bonuses. yeah right --- planetary interaction idea!
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: Grimpak well I did meant that the rep bonus is useless in the deimos i think everyone agree on that, other then the guy in ccp that came up with this brilliant idea actually JoJo says that the deimos is omfgwtfbbq with those stats and bonuses. yeah right yeah well you know, if everyone listend to jojo we would flying around with pulsedeimos or something
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:19:00 - [70] Whoa,didnt expect this....Awesome boosts. thanks ccp! This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Erayo Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:20:00 - [71] Only if the other races had someone like JoJo, everyone would have 8/8/8 jove ships by now.
Dangerously Cheesey GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:36:00 - [72] lol at the eagle's 5th turret. The only thing keeping it balanced was its relatively low dps/alpha compared to the Muninn. Time to put the muninn away and start on caldari cruiser V?
Dawn Crystal	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:39:00 - [73] Originally by: Dangerously Cheesey lol at the eagle's 5th turret. The only thing keeping it balanced was its relatively low dps/alpha compared to the Muninn. Time to put the muninn away and start on caldari cruiser V? Another boost to Caldari? OK, that's it. I am switching to Caldari.
hellsknights RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:52:00 - [74] Edited by: hellsknights on 02/02/2008 01:55:55 Originally by: Erayo Originally by: hellsknights Im at work here, so i can't log to see changes...... They added a rep bonus to the Deimos and cahnged a low slot for a mid. Did they remove any bonuses? or just add? Since your at work, I guess you can't read everything(puzzles me as its stated on the first page). MWD bonus removed and Armour rep bonus added -1 Lowslot +1 midslot Hey wang, when i read the first post the Deimos bonuses were not stated. As you can tell the OP was edited, so it was added later. Does that solve your puzzle? If not anything else i can do to help? Thanks for the answer anyhow.
Hannobaal Gallente Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:54:00 - [75] These are actually good changes. I like.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:56:00 - [76] Originally by: Hannobaal These are actually good changes. I like. Ive seen demios pilots thrilled about 4 mids on sisi. Im not sure if everyone is giving this a chance or just put their flame-hats on just for the heck of it. Amarr pvp Vids: Inq - I Inq - II
hellsknights RennTech SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 01:59:00 - [77] Edited by: hellsknights on 02/02/2008 01:59:45 Cool for the fourth mid, but crappy for the loss of the MWD bonus. I never even fit a armor rep on my Deimos, so the new bonus does not even help me out. Back to the drawing board for me then and plenty others im sure. PS. congrats to the Amarrians
Drummle	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:06:00 - [78] Originally by: N1fty Seriously guys, get real, its not that Gallente is overpowered, its that Omni tanks and stacking nerfs' broke Amarr damage while the HP boosts exposed the cap weaknesses. This mostly bypassed Gallente who benefitted from the DCU's and the fact that most of their ships can afford to fit a cap booster with mwd and full tackle. Amarr are being brought back to what they used to be. Damage and Armour. Not that most of these whiners would know anything about what Amarr used to be. Sweet does this mean that we get the stacking penalty removed from heat sinks on geddons
xHalcyonx Amarr Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:06:00 - [79] Originally by: hellsknights Edited by: hellsknights on 02/02/2008 01:59:45 Cool for the fourth mid, but crappy for the loss of the MWD bonus. I never even fit a armor rep on my Deimos, so the new bonus does not even help me out. Back to the drawing board for me then and plenty others im sure. PS. congrats to the Amarrians Grid, CPU, and cap need to be adjusted for the 5th turret on the Zealot and Omen. With my current fit I am CPU maxed (400/400) and very close to PG limit. (10mn MWD II, Fleeting 20km disruptor, medium electrochem cap booster, Mar II, 4x HPL II) ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Xerpex Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:08:00 - [80] Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:13:52 Yah deimos haters shut up, it won't be a subpar hac anymore. edit: the rep bonus is there because of the brutix.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:21:00 - [81] I love what they have done to the apoc, they have made it into one sexy ass boat, now if they would just spread that natural cap reduction bonus to the other amarr ships.
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:21:00 - [82] Originally by: xHalcyonx Edited by: xHalcyonx on 02/02/2008 02:10:24 Originally by: hellsknights Edited by: hellsknights on 02/02/2008 01:59:45 Cool for the fourth mid, but crappy for the loss of the MWD bonus. I never even fit a armor rep on my Deimos, so the new bonus does not even help me out. Back to the drawing board for me then and plenty others im sure. PS. congrats to the Amarrians Grid, CPU, and cap need to be adjusted for the 5th turret on the Zealot and Omen. With my current fit I am CPU maxed (400/400) and very close to PG limit. -=Zealot=- 4x HPL II 1x 10mn MWD II 1x Fleeting 20km Disruptor 1x Medium Electrochem Cap booster w/ cap 800s 1x MAR II 1x ANP II 1x Therm Hardener II 1x DCU II 3x HS II 2x ANP I rigs It _barely_ fits as I said. More CPU, Grid, and Cap plz CCP. Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Capacitor Power Relay II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Faint Warp Prohibitor I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency M [empty high slot] Anti-Thermic Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I Fits with enough room to add the 5th HPL II. I think your problem comes in trying to tank it, gank it and make it go fast. The zealot really doesn't have fitting problems, the omen is a different story though. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Kon sama	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:23:00 - [83] Originally by: Goumindong The Eagle, Moa and Ferox now also have another turret. Eagle is now the undisputed king of anti-support. Apoc is now the undisupted king of sniping. what about the vulture? did it get an extra turret too?
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:26:00 - [84] Originally by: Kon sama Originally by: Goumindong The Eagle, Moa and Ferox now also have another turret. Eagle is now the undisputed king of anti-support. Apoc is now the undisupted king of sniping. what about the vulture? did it get an extra turret too? I dont' know if that would be a good idea. Vulture is a gang support ship more then a strait up fighting ship. ___________ Desolacer> Who the heck gives YOU the right to ruin it for others buy blowing them up. Zaqar> CCP
Cmndr Griff Opinicus Operations Twilight Trade Cartel	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:26:00 - [85] 5th turret for my Zealot? Just what the doctor ordered "Your ego's writing cheques your body can't cash."
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.02 02:34:00 - [86] ZOMG... Zealot and Apoc might actually be good again??? And TBH, I like the Deimos change as well. Just fit it for tank now instead of gank.
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 03:20:00 - [87] 5th turret's are cool. I dont know that the eagle needed one, but whatever. Can the omen please have some fitting though.
Fifi LeFume Griefers Inc. Notoriety Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 03:27:00 - [88] Originally by: Kruel And TBH, I like the Deimos change as well. Just fit it for tank now instead of gank. What? the deimos is a GANK ship, it has dual damage bonii, if you wanted to fly tanked use a brutix. The deimos is all about mobility and damage, you kill it before it kill you. Not happy with the changes tbh. It used to be good gank, now its meh tank, and meh gank due to pg use of an injector
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.02 03:37:00 - [89] Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease. I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em!
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 03:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease. I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em! YESDFSAJKLFSJKLASFJKL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Tracking Disruptor love. my joy cannot be contained in text.
Colonel Katsumoto Jupiter Mining Corp. Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 03:50:00 - [91] Let me know when they change the stupid +5% kinetic missle damage bonus on caldari ships to a +5% all around damage bonus and ill be happy.
Blutreiter Amarr Digital Fury Corporation Digital Renegades	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:07:00 - [92] Originally by: Julius Romanus Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease. I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em! YESDFSAJKLFSJKLASFJKL YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS Tracking Disruptor love. my joy cannot be contained in text. HALLELUJA! \o/ cough wheeze Cogito ergo boom - I think i'll blow sht up* Originally by: CCP Explorer I know we have said this before, but this time we really mean itÖ
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:38:00 - [93] Edited by: Grimpak on 02/02/2008 04:39:31 Originally by: Xerpex Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:17:05 Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:13:52 Yah deimos haters shut up, it won't be a subpar hac anymore. edit: the rep bonus is there because of the brutix. Now it matches the brutix as a blastership (with a bit more agility). Before the brutix outclassed it in all except for agility, which after the bc agility boost wasn't worth the extra cost. Unless you're in a corp that "doesn't do t1" (whether implicit or explicit) but then you're a dummy haha lol. ok let's put it this way: a 6/4/5 deimos with rep bonus means that you lose the mwd bonus. that means less cap. to get over that loss of cap, you need to slap the injector. step 1 solved. now that the ship has only 5 lows instead of 6, you need some sort of tank since you cannot go the "full-gank-no-tank" way (wich was perfectly fine btw), so you slap a med repper. step 2 solved. now to deal with the inherent stupidly short range of the blasters, you need a mwd. step 3 solved. after all these essential modules being fitted (because that's what CCP wants us to do anyways) we are left with just barely enough grid to slap electrons in the ship. ....and that's without slapping a plate and a med nos in that 6th high slot. where does that leave us? well, let's just say that the damage dealt by a tanked electron deimos (sans drones) is 300 dps. sounds nice, but an ishtar will do far more damage than a deimos now, wich is supposed to be a purely gank ship. tbh if they want to change slots, swap that useless 6th high slot and leave the low slots AND the mwd bonus alone. ...unless of course they want us to nano it, since it will have the same slot setup as the vagabond now and not so large difference in speed, mass and agility --- planetary interaction idea!
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:47:00 - [94] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease. I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em! ... Holy ****. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:47:00 - [95] Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 04:48:22 Originally by: Grimpak stuff The Deimos on SiSi has 1625 base capacitor now. (up from 1375) It has more cap than the Amarr HACs. Stop whining about losing a bonus.
Twilight Mourning	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:53:00 - [96] Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 04:48:22 Originally by: Grimpak stuff The Deimos on SiSi has 1625 base capacitor now. (up from 1375) It has more cap than the Amarr HACs. Stop whining about losing a bonus. Shhh you can't bring up the good stuff that they are doing! It will ruin the Gallente's arguments! Now we can't have that. Just ask them, only Amarr are allowed to be nerfed. Everyone else is supposed to be boosted! pfft Nerf > Gallente < CCP .... Or something.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 04:56:00 - [97] Originally by: Xequecal Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 04:48:22 Originally by: Grimpak stuff The Deimos on SiSi has 1625 base capacitor now. (up from 1375) It has more cap than the Amarr HACs. Stop whining about losing a bonus. ok fine, they boosted the capacitor of the ship. but the capacitor of the deimos is still bigger (1719) and it's still unstable. yes fit an injector, wich leaves 0 space to fit neutrons, but that doesn't matter now since you can't gank fit the ship without any sort of buffer anyways. point still stands. take that 6th high slot, but don't change the low-slot setup nor the mwd bonus. --- planetary interaction idea!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 05:13:00 - [98] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease. I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em! What higher teir frigates do a couple hundred dps at 20km?
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 05:52:00 - [99] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Ariel Dawn Tracking Disruptors reduce falloff now as well on SiSi. A single TD used vs a Vagabond will cut it's DPS when its at around 18-20km to less than that of the higher tier T1 frigates (disregarding drones). Whining about this particular ship should now immediately cease. I wonder what race will become the next 'Amarr Problem' candidate once CCP finishes over-boosting their ships. Meanwhile, time to start training 'em! What higher teir frigates do a couple hundred dps at 20km? Your math skills are a lot more sound than mine. But from what i'm seeing a well skilled vaga with 220's and 2x dmg mods puts out about 300 gun dps with barrage @ 2.6+21. Using an unscripted TD(because i dont know how scripts affect the current TD on sisi for fallof) you're taking about 25% off optimal and falloff. Which gives something like 1.9+15.75. As I understand the tracking guide that would put the gun dps somewhere around 30% of listed or around 90 @ 20km.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:09:00 - [100] And drones. Also not figuring falloff rigs if there are any. Figure 1/3 dps on the guns roughly and 100 DPS from drones. 200 DPS.
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:24:00 - [101] Originally by: Goumindong And drones. Also not figuring falloff rigs if there are any. Figure 1/3 dps on the guns roughly and 100 DPS from drones. 200 DPS. Still, thats not half bad at all for a single unbonused unscripted TD(i used skills at 4). 3 of them on a curse would do quite nicely I should think.
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:26:00 - [102] Well with regards to the deimos, I have decided to look at the description again; Quote: Sharing more tactical elements with smaller vessels than with its size-class counterparts, I have now figured it out, that's the tank they were on about. Quote: the Deimos represents the final word in up-close-and-personal cruiser combat. Oops, they missed it, it was supposed to be**abong. Quote:** Venture too close to this one, and swift death is your only guarantee. Surely that should be "if you venture too close IN this one...." Silly changes. ---------------------------- Confirmed heaviest member of RDEX........ Hah, no more hijacks here!!!!
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:35:00 - [103] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Hannobaal These are actually good changes. I like. Ive seen demios pilots thrilled about 4 mids on sisi. Im not sure if everyone is giving this a chance or just put their flame-hats on just for the heck of it. Dont know,tbh even though i dont fly the ship this could be a good way to help its cap issues...I like it changed. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Byzan Zwyth Dark Centuri Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.02 06:44:00 - [104] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 01/02/2008 23:43:50 Originally by: Byzan Zwyth cyclone needs another one too /signed Cyclone is worthless compared to the Hurricane, and needs at least a 6th, if not 7th gun just as badly as the Ferox did. Originally by: kessah The Apoc needs more CPU and a bigger drone bay. It needs these things because the reliance on drones for battleships "Especially ones without dmg bonuses" has become so much more. Opt range bonus though is spot on. No. This is utterly insane. The Apoc is now a top-tier fleet sniper, with strong arguments for being the best one. With that optimal range bonus, it completely obsoletes the Megathron (more DPS with more range and more tracking), almost does the same to the Minmatar ships with only alpha really keeping them useful, and obsoletes the Rokh in the majority of fleet engagements where the Rokh can't use its superior range. Adding 50m3 of drones to the Apoc would create the most broken unbalanced battleship in the game. Hate to QFT the person who used to take ore off me when I was a noob but it's true. With this change the Apoc will become arguably one of the top battleships in the game, I dont see why it needs to be upgraded from that to something without a weakness. Sig removed. Lacks EVE related content. For more information feel free to contact [email protected]. ~Saint
jeikam VersaTech Interstellar Ltd. SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 08:04:00 - [105] Originally by: N1fty Seriously guys, get real, its not that Gallente is overpowered, its that Omni tanks and stacking nerfs' broke Amarr damage while the HP boosts exposed the cap weaknesses. This mostly bypassed Gallente who benefitted from the DCU's and the fact that most of their ships can afford to fit a cap booster with mwd and full tackle. Amarr are being brought back to what they used to be. Damage and Armour. Not that most of these whiners would know anything about what Amarr used to be. ABSOLUTELY what this man says about the bigger picture. I maxxed Amarr ships and lasers when I started playing the game only to be forced to cross train because my beloved Amarr got shafted. So then I just cross trained every races T2 ship (other than Marauders and Black-Ops, but meh) and its T2 weapon, nerfing problem solved! Though I should be impartial I'm rather pleased at these Amarr changes... Eve just like life goes full circle...
Ogdru Jahad Amarr Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.02.02 08:11:00 - [106] Originally by: Riho ok.. been playing around whit some of the changes (zealot) and no.. the 5th turret slot didnt make it OP... its even harder to fit this ship whit t2 now :P (decent fit) but its ok... can be worked on :) so far i aint impressed with the zealot. my fitting for ****s and giggles was. 5x Heavy beams II AB10 II, Stasis II, Cap Recharger. 1x MAR II, 3 active hardeners, 1x HS II, 2x CPR II well i only managed to fit it all with 4 pg to spare. no room for laser rigs AT ALL! more so if you do not have AWU V. also it now caps out very easyily where as before it did not. as for the apoc? with one cap rig of any sort and 2 armour rigs it seems fine with 8x MP II. cap use was like 15 each. still wont fit 8 tachs. - At last the Gallente can finally lay claim to saying... "my DICtor" is bigger than yours.
Akane Miyamoto Paisti Paisti Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.02 08:29:00 - [107] Originally by: Erayo I just hope they don't mess up Ishtar. I'd rather see them nerf the nanoishtar than this change --------------- The Miyamotos, Chapter #1.5
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2008.02.02 08:47:00 - [108] Originally by: Augeas Quote: tell me wtf is wrong with the deimos atm? It's a terrible ship, that's what its problem is. Against a tier 2 BC, it's just fancily packed loot and salvage. I love seeing Deimos on scan. HACS are not meant to omgwtfpwn tier 2 bc's. Zealot with extra turret, if those are the only changes to the zealot, it's gonna be very very tough to fit, and it's cap is gonna be even more unstable. CCP, get this ... DRONE BAY, not extra turret. Similar dps increase, but flexibility and more cap stability, and you won't need to boost the CPU, again, just so that it can be fitted.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.02 08:57:00 - [109] Just wondering, did the Navy Apoc get the same treatment? There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Liang Nuren The Avalon Foundation	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:08:00 - [110] Originally by: Setana Manoro DRONE BAY, not extra turret. I'd rather see an extra turret and fittings. -Liang -- If it appears that my typing is lazy, I apologize. My hands/wrists hurt. Update: I bought a Datahand for RSI, and I now suck at typing (so I don't post as much)
Terianna Eri Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:12:00 - [111] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Setana Manoro DRONE BAY, not extra turret. I'd rather see an extra turret and fittings. -Liang Goumindong disagrees in that it needs extra fittings, but since I don't like fitting webs to ships that can't really tank outside of webrange, I agree with you. Not a whole crapload of extra fittings, but a decent amount more CPU, a little more PG, and especially a little bit more cap, especially because it has problems fitting an injector (strict fitting requirements, tiny cargohold). __________________________________
Siona S'kar Amarr Galactic Confederation ICARUS Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:27:00 - [112] Originally by: Xerpex Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:17:05 Edited by: Xerpex on 02/02/2008 02:13:52 Yah deimos haters shut up, it won't be a subpar hac anymore. edit: the rep bonus is there because of the brutix. Now it matches the brutix as a blastership (with a bit more agility). Before the brutix outclassed it in all except for agility, which after the bc agility boost wasn't worth the extra cost. Unless you're in a corp that "doesn't do t1" (whether implicit or explicit) but then you're a dummy haha lol. Its ment to be like the Thorax you dipwad.
Breed Love FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:28:00 - [113] Stop whining about the deimos changes ffs, for once they are about to make the ship usable for what it's supposed to do, and you want to ruin that. And yes, that 6th hi-slot is useful. ----- Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
Johan Quinn	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:39:00 - [114] The change does make the Deimos a pointless ship. Want to tank? Get a Phobos, it can fit electrons and Booster and tank better. Want to Gank, might as well fly a Brutix, now, yeah the resists are not as good. but when you die you aint lost a load of cash. Is kind a pointless change, Deimos was fine as it was, if you wanted to fit a booster you just had to sacrifice some tackle. I dont really get were they are coming from tbh. Ammar Changes are great although things will go round in circles. All the FOTM pilots will be training them like they did Vagas. TBH i was gonna train Amarr for the challenge of flying them but now im not to sure!!
Breed Love FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 09:55:00 - [115] Originally by: Johan Quinn The change does make the Deimos a pointless ship. Want to tank? Get a Phobos, it can fit electrons and Booster and tank better. Want to Gank, might as well fly a Brutix, now, yeah the resists are not as good. but when you die you aint lost a load of cash. Is kind a pointless change, Deimos was fine as it was, if you wanted to fit a booster you just had to sacrifice some tackle. I dont really get were they are coming from tbh. They were coming from some actual pvp knowledge (believe it or not, they know a thing or two about it), unlike most whiners here who have absolutely zero clue. Deimos is mediocre at everything you try to do with it atm, on sisi however it is a great solo roaming ship. Hopefully it will stay that way and the changes will make it to tq. ----- Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
Sennju Zensu Gallente Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:24:00 - [116] i dont know if that's good or not for the deimos, with that repair bonus we will fitt a med repair on it, but less capacitor +1 med, so we will fitt one cap booster, so need some booster in cargo... You should make the deimos cargo bigger then... And what about grid? if we have one less Low slot can't fitt a RCU or PDS, but we need to fitt a Medium cap booster...or Battery....
Breed Love FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:29:00 - [117] Originally by: Johan Quinn I PVP all the time, to the point were i sell GTC so i dont have to do anything else. Solo ship is great in Sisi (oh yeah sisi is real PVP) but as CCP are nerfing Solo PVP to hell it doesnt really work. ATM the Deimos is fine, its a upgunned thorax. When you get in a Deimos you accept your going to kill or be killed. It is easy to solo on sisi before the change with it. If you cant actually do anything with the deimos then your doing something wrong, it is a fine ship. The Ability to have a 4th mid is nice, but loosing a low slot is a stupid idea, loose the high instead. Maybe the biggest problem with the current deimos is just that it is "an upgunned thorax"? Because a thorax is kinda suicidal with the standard fit, and while its fine for a 5 mil tech one cruiser, it doesnt really work well on a 100mil hac. Maybe some people don't like the idea of being killed and just want to kill? Besides, I didnt say deimos can't do anything, I said it was mediocre at what it did. So-so in gangs, because of the need to fly your whole ship to the target with a blaster fit, so-so at solo roaming because of cap issues. 5/4/6 would be nice too, but I dont think its gonna happen. Besides, a 6th hi-slot is useful, so its pretty good either way. ----- Originally by: Zhulik I thought Premium graphics were supposed to fix that bug where people were trying to salvage Minmatar ships.
Maleagent Amarr Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:35:00 - [118] Its quite tight fitting for the Zealot but you can do something interesting High Slot : 5*Heavy pulse TII Medium 1 warp disruptor TII 1 cap recharge TII 1 MWD TII Low slot: 1 small armor repair TII 1 800 plate rolled tungsten 1 EANM TII 1 ANP TII 1 DC tII 2 HEat sink TII History is a bunch of lies that we all agree on.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:42:00 - [119] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Just wondering, did the Navy Apoc get the same treatment? Current showing on test server has the Navy and Imperial Apocs both unchanged, but I'd certainly hope they'd correct this before TQ patch. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
James Draekn X.E.N.O.	Posted - 2008.02.02 10:52:00 - [120] I like the idea of the Deimos getting a 6 mid slot, but not at the expense of a low slot. The repper bonus is nice, although the problem with HACs is the lack of hit points to allow a repper to run long enough to make a difference in a fight. A battlecruiser has enough hit points to absorb damage and let the repper start to generate a defense (actively). A better change for the deimos, if you are looking to accomplish the following goals: More cap stable, More tank, injector fit Highs - 5 (turrets) Mids - 4 (increase grid to allow fitting of IONs and injector) Lows - 6 Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level (increase base cap to compensate for the loss of MWD bonus) Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level The Deimos needs to have a passive armor bonus as that is more effective then a active one. When you start fitting a repper, MWD and blasters cap usuage is huge. A injector will help with the problem, but the capacitor quantity is to small to provide a buffer against all the mods operating and NOS/NUET warfare. The resistance bonus acknowledges that blaster boats are in NOS/NUET range running a MWD and using blaster which eat a ton of cap, so if your tank requires you to heavily use a repper you cap out. Not to mention the lack of a hit point buffer to let the repper make any kind of difference.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:01:00 - [121] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 02/02/2008 11:02:16 Originally by: James Draekn I like the idea of the Deimos getting a 6 mid slot, but not at the expense of a low slot. The repper bonus is nice, although the problem with HACs is the lack of hit points to allow a repper to run long enough to make a difference in a fight. A battlecruiser has enough hit points to absorb damage and let the repper start to generate a defense (actively). A better change for the deimos, if you are looking to accomplish the following goals: More cap stable, More tank, injector fit Highs - 5 (turrets) Mids - 4 (increase grid to allow fitting of IONs and injector) Lows - 6 Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 5% bonus to Armor Resistances per level (increase base cap to compensate for the loss of MWD bonus) Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level The Deimos needs to have a passive armor bonus as that is more effective then a active one. When you start fitting a repper, MWD and blasters cap usuage is huge. A injector will help with the problem, but the capacitor quantity is to small to provide a buffer against all the mods operating and NOS/NUET warfare. The resistance bonus acknowledges that blaster boats are in NOS/NUET range running a MWD and using blaster which eat a ton of cap, so if your tank requires you to heavily use a repper you cap out. Not to mention the lack of a hit point buffer to let the repper make any kind of difference. While i don't really disagree with what you're saying, you do realise that the passive armor bonusses are more or less Amarr exclusive. (Caldari have the shield version) The active repair boost is in line with the other Gallente ships. Base cap was increased i might add (+250 base cap), since i don't fly a Deimos i can't comment on its performance with these changes, but loosing a low on an armor tanked vessel is going to hurt its tank, unless people usually fit 3 Mag.Stabs and 3 slot tank, then you might aswell fit 2 Mag.Stabs and that same 3 slot tank. Lower DPS yes, but same tank. Although i imagine you'll run into grid issues with MWD, Booster, Guns and a medium repper. Especially if you fit a plate aswell.
James Draekn X.E.N.O.	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:15:00 - [122] While i don't really disagree with what you're saying, you do realise that the passive armor bonusses are more or less Amarr exclusive. (Caldari have the shield version) The active repair boost is in line with the other Gallente ships. Base cap was increased i might add (+250 base cap), since i don't fly a Deimos i can't comment on its performance with these changes, but loosing a low on an armor tanked vessel is going to hurt its tank, unless people usually fit 3 Mag.Stabs and 3 slot tank, then you might aswell fit 2 Mag.Stabs and that same 3 slot tank. Lower DPS yes, but same tank. Although i imagine you'll run into grid issues with MWD, Booster, Guns and a medium repper. Especially if you fit a plate aswell. The current 6 high is a utility slot (those who like NOS/NUET use it) and depending on fit you usually don't have the grid for it. This will be even more true if you have to fit a cap booster. If you keep with the bonuses on other thorax hulls (ie. Phobos) the resistance bonus fits. Losing that low hurts versus losing that 6th high.
joshmorris Silver Snake Enterprise SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:15:00 - [123] Edited by: joshmorris on 02/02/2008 11:19:25 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Deimos has a low moved to a med, for 6 hi, 4 med, 5 low. Deimos's bonii are now: Gallente Cruiser Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage and 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level Heavy Assault Ship Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret falloff and 5% bonus to Medium Hybrid Turret damage per level This is absolute bull. Deimos is FINE now u changed it to give us more pg and it worked ! why screw this ship up. By changing this people wont tank the deimos they will NANO it and make it a small shield tank with nano in lows which would totally ignore the bonus. Or they will passive SHIELD tank as it is way better. If people dont nano they will die (unless passive shield for low sec) as the rep bonus is pointless and only really works well if u have 6 lows and 2 reps or near enough anything can break it. If u fit 2 reps to a deimos u need cap booster, and u need mwd to use blasters. It DOESNTwork and any sort of rails that do decent damage take way to much pg so thats not an option. So all your doing CCP is adding a **** bonus which no1 will use as they will just nano the deimos from now on. If you do anything to the deimos take the high and put it into the mid ... dont change the whole damn ship as its perfectly fine atm. Uber idea solves all !!
Athryn	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:16:00 - [124] Regarding the upcoming Deimos changes if it does go live I just want to say that I'm tired of people whining about how they wont be able to fit their ships blah, blah, blah... this and that well guess what? work on your skills some more mmmkay? dont *** that you cant fit the ship just because you have ty skills and have absolutely no brains to see that it still does a load of dps to fit a med. injector you need AWU 5 and 2 Ancillary Current Router okay losers you want a glass cannon use this set up 5 T2 Neuts, no you wont be able to fit anything here so shut it Y-T8 MWD, Fleeting Web, 24km Scram, Med. Electrochemical Injector MAR T2, Internal Forcefield DCU, EANM T2,2 T2 Mag Stabs you' ll have like 1 or 2 free cpu and like 50 more grid so you losers that go on EFT all day say this and that will fit blah blah blah then when ccp posts a change you say it wont fit because you havent opened your beloved EFT to see if it will work you should quit eve and go play wow cuz you are just brainless ppl. work on your level 5 skills with HAC 5 I get 12.4 damage mod my glass cannon set up right now had a med. dim. nos in the 6th turret slot 175pg 20cpu, swap it for the injector 150pg 25 cpu 3 T2 mag stabs in the low for a 13. x something dmg dont **in whine to me about having exp. resists the ship was NOT meant to tank never was and never will be even with the upcoming changes its strongest point is the utterly sheer damage it can do, and personally I think you have a better chance to kill a curse with the med. injector in the mid in a 1 v 1 if you can catch him in a web range because the injector will keep you going.
joshmorris Silver Snake Enterprise SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:24:00 - [125] Originally by: Athryn Regarding the upcoming Deimos changes if it does go live I just want to say that I'm tired of people whining about how they wont be able to fit their ships blah, blah, blah... this and that well guess what? work on your skills some more mmmkay? dont *** that you cant fit the ship just because you have ty skills and have absolutely no brains to see that it still does a load of dps to fit a med. injector you need AWU 5 and 2 Ancillary Current Router okay losers you want a glass cannon use this set up 5 T2 Neuts, no you wont be able to fit anything here so shut it Y-T8 MWD, Fleeting Web, 24km Scram, Med. Electrochemical Injector MAR T2, Internal Forcefield DCU, EANM T2,2 T2 Mag Stabs you' ll have like 1 or 2 free cpu and like 50 more grid so you losers that go on EFT all day say this and that will fit blah blah blah then when ccp posts a change you say it wont fit because you havent opened your beloved EFT to see if it will work you should quit eve and go play wow cuz you are just brainless ppl. work on your level 5 skills with HAC 5 I get 12.4 damage mod my glass cannon set up right now had a med. dim. nos in the 6th turret slot 175pg 20cpu, swap it for the injector 150pg 25 cpu 3 T2 mag stabs in the low for a 13. x something dmg dont **in whine to me about having exp. resists the ship was NOT meant to tank never was and never will be even with the upcoming changes its strongest point is the utterly sheer damage it can do, and personally I think you have a better chance to kill a curse with the med. injector in the mid in a 1 v 1 if you can catch him in a web range because the injector will keep you going. So do u agree or not ? CCP is adding a pointless bonus that no1 will use (tank bonus). And its fine atm why change a ship that has no problem. Uber idea solves all !!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:33:00 - [126] Originally by: Athryn dont *** that you cant fit the ship just because you have ty skills and have absolutely no brains to see that it still does a **load of dps to fit a med. injector you need AWU 5 and 2 Ancillary Current Router so you say that I need to slap 2 ACR's just to be able to fit the ship in a semi-gank way? hmm-hmm, nice balancing there. oh and btw, I can get the same damage and enough buffer tank now with lvl4 skills and no fitting mods 5 neutrons mwd, web scrammer 3 MFS, expl hardener, DCU and SAR. 2 trimarks same damage mod as you say above. the SAR is there to patch up between fights because if any ship decides as much to SNEEZE at you you'll die. that's why I play smart when in gank setup. that's why I engage the target a few seconds AFTER everyone engage it because I'll be less conspicuous. still I don't get your post. is it saying the changes are good or the changes are bad? because the simple fact of slapping fitting mods on a ship means that there's something wrong, and you say that the ship was not meant to tank, so why the need of the repping bonus anyway? --- planetary interaction idea!
Srdjan Vulic	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:35:00 - [127] Seriously, When is this anti-Gallente campaign going to stop??? I have seen nerf after nerf and this is the first time i'm complaining, Ishtar,nos-Dominix,Myrmidon,Eos and now Deimos... Sure 4th med. slot whould be nice, but if that means losing current bonus on MWD and low slot then NO THANKS just leave it as it is. 7.5% bonus to Armor Repairer effectiveness per level on Deimos is just stupid since this ship is not ment to be tanker and Brutix or Myrmidon can do better jobe at it for much cheaper price. For all thos who say "this is not nerf it's a good change" i say get fu***d, eather you dont fly Deimos or you dont know what this ship is all about(which is minimal tank with lots of damage) Deimos kills fast and gets killed even faster but thats the way we like it, if u need tanker use Brutix,Dominix or what ever else u want just dont mess with Deimos!!!
Athryn	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:37:00 - [128] Originally by: joshmorris Originally by: Athryn Regarding the upcoming Deimos changes if it does go live I just want to say that I'm tired of people whining about how they wont be able to fit their ships blah, blah, blah... this and that well guess what? work on your skills some more mmmkay? dont *** that you cant fit the ship just because you have ty skills and have absolutely no brains to see that it still does a load of dps to fit a med. injector you need AWU 5 and 2 Ancillary Current Router okay losers you want a glass cannon use this set up 5 T2 Neuts, no you wont be able to fit anything here so shut it Y-T8 MWD, Fleeting Web, 24km Scram, Med. Electrochemical Injector MAR T2, Internal Forcefield DCU, EANM T2,2 T2 Mag Stabs you' ll have like 1 or 2 free cpu and like 50 more grid so you losers that go on EFT all day say this and that will fit blah blah blah then when ccp posts a change you say it wont fit because you havent opened your beloved EFT to see if it will work you should quit eve and go play wow cuz you are just brainless ppl. work on your level 5 skills with HAC 5 I get 12.4 damage mod my glass cannon set up right now had a med. dim. nos in the 6th turret slot 175pg 20cpu, swap it for the injector 150pg 25 cpu 3 T2 mag stabs in the low for a 13. x something dmg dont **in whine to me about having exp. resists the ship was NOT meant to tank never was and never will be even with the upcoming changes its strongest point is the utterly sheer damage it can do, and personally I think you have a better chance to kill a curse with the med. injector in the mid in a 1 v 1 if you can catch him in a web range because the injector will keep you going. So do u agree or not ? CCP is adding a pointless bonus that no1 will use (tank bonus). And its fine atm why change a ship that has no problem. yes imho the ship was never meant to have the armor repair bonus even though you can set it up to tank with only 5 lows anything is possible but the ships bonus is to gank if you want to tank go amarr thats what the bonuses on their ships are for, but what are you gonna do its on test if it goes live just adapt to the changes or fly a different ship
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:37:00 - [129] I'm please for the apoc, no joke. It was definitely the bs that needed the help more than any other but this seems a little overboard tbh. The Rokh costs 50-60 million isk more than apoc and does significantly less damage at pretty much the same range. In addition its capacitor endurance is eclipsed by the Apocs and they have very similar workable tanks with the apoc probably better with its 8 lows. Thats just the Rokh, the Megathron is also getting the shaft. Tachyons being more painful than rails this isn't just another Rokh. This apoc is actually going to hurt at 200km. I'd rather buff the other two than revise the Apoc changes tbh but then the Pest needs buffing too and it just gets more complicated... --------------- you all smell!
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 11:42:00 - [130] Originally by: Athryn yes imho the ship was never meant to have the armor repair bonus even though you can set it up to tank with only 5 lows anything is possible but the ships bonus is to gank if you want to tank go amarr thats what the bonuses on their ships are for, but what are you gonna do its on test if it goes live just adapt to the changes or fly a different ship if these changes go live, I'll adapt in the same way I did when they nerfed the gallente recons, by going for falcons and rooks instead. in the deimos case, here's how I'm adapting: Quote: Amarr Cruiser / Rank 5 / SP: 443953 of 1280000 +Currently training to: level 5 +Time left: 10 days, 6 hours, 35 minutes, 5 seconds +SP done: 355947 of 836047 --- planetary interaction idea!
Cornette Gallente Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:30:00 - [131] Originally by: Breed Love Originally by: Johan Quinn The change does make the Deimos a pointless ship. Want to tank? Get a Phobos, it can fit electrons and Booster and tank better. Want to Gank, might as well fly a Brutix, now, yeah the resists are not as good. but when you die you aint lost a load of cash. Is kind a pointless change, Deimos was fine as it was, if you wanted to fit a booster you just had to sacrifice some tackle. I dont really get were they are coming from tbh. They were coming from some actual pvp knowledge (believe it or not, they know a thing or two about it), unlike most whiners here who have absolutely zero clue. Deimos is mediocre at everything you try to do with it atm, on sisi however it is a great solo roaming ship. Hopefully it will stay that way and the changes will make it to tq. Let me guess your favourd playstyle involves a lot of nanofagotry and for that this change suits you perfect? Tell me the value of your speed implants please.
HEINZ ZERO PsyCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:41:00 - [132] Originally by: welsh wizard I'm please for the apoc, no joke. It was definitely the bs that needed the help more than any other but this seems a little overboard tbh. The Rokh costs 50-60 million isk more than apoc and does significantly less damage at pretty much the same range. In addition its capacitor endurance is eclipsed by the Apocs and they have very similar workable tanks with the apoc probably better with its 8 lows. Thats just the Rokh, the Megathron is also getting the shaft. Tachyons being more painful than rails this isn't just another Rokh. This apoc is actually going to hurt at 200km. I'd rather buff the other two than revise the Apoc changes tbh but then the Pest needs buffing too and it just gets more complicated... I don¦t think the apoc will be overpowert but it will get a role... while the megathron is a close range DPS Boat the Apoc is now a real sniper (close range it still sucks) and even with the fitting boost it is still very difficult to fit highest tier weapons compared to other races ps Apoc has only 7 lows
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:44:00 - [133] Aye it does, oops. What about the rokh? --------------- you all smell!
HEINZ ZERO PsyCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.02.02 12:56:00 - [134] Originally by: welsh wizard Aye it does, oops. What about the rokh? I think the rokh¦s only problem is the 250km lock range limit but compared to the (new)apoc - fitting is much easier (tons of CPU and nice PG)
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:04:00 - [135] Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 13:05:10 nm --------------- you all smell!
TheEndofTheWorld	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:07:00 - [136] Edited by: TheEndofTheWorld on 02/02/2008 13:08:03 Originally by: welsh wizard Aye it does, oops. What about the rokh? Well, try to fit 8 tachs, mwd, DD tank... you average standard alliance 0.0 blob-warfare BS setup. You will fail, even with the +1000 grid. Realistic setup will be something like 7 mega beams + 1-2 heat sinks.
Keisern	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:16:00 - [137] Sigh These deimos changes does not make any sense. As so many others have said, the DPS was the deimos' tank, it doesn't need some mediocre repping fit =( I was actually in the process of training up for a deimos, but I'd rather train amarr instead. You can get 3 harbingers for the price of a deimos, and they'll last helluva much longer.
Sir Dancealot	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:31:00 - [138] Hmm, but how about if we change one of the damage bonuses to the repping bonus so we keep the MWD bonues? Originally by: Incantare Thread does not deliver. I was expecting a story, funny, surprising or otherwise interesting. Instead I got to read Kehmor's smacking. Awesome.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:40:00 - [139] Originally by: Sir Dancealot Hmm, but how about if we change one of the damage bonuses to the repping bonus so we keep the MWD bonues? and that way it would really be just a glorified thorax. --- planetary interaction idea!
The Djego Minmatar FORTES FORTUNA ADIUVAT CORP. The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:54:00 - [140] Well Deimos -> CCP Simply don¦t fix things that ain¦t brocken and push Ships into rolles where other Ships allready be far better in it. Apoc -> the changes are nice but i realy think 7.5% is to mutch 5% would be better compared to other Sniping BS(especialy the Rohk) because it allready got way better with the Grid and Cap improvements, I realy like to see the Apoc with a role as a substainable Long Range BS now Omen -> well 5 Turrets are nice but even 4 Turrets with more Powergrid to fit serious Gank or middleground DPS with a aceptalbe Tank would done the Job(better i my Opinion). What the Omen realy needs is Powergrid(and mayby a range Bonus) to become a deacend Laser Ship. Even with 4 Guns it can hurt but it has to sacrifice to mutch slots for Fitting Mods and bare no tank if doing so. Zealot -> I realy like to see the Ship finaly becomming a true Laser Plattfrom with good DPS in medium Ranges. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Jonny JoJo 425 II In PVE? Surely hybrid users use Blaster in PvE.
Sir Dancealot	Posted - 2008.02.02 13:59:00 - [141] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Sir Dancealot Hmm, but how about if we change one of the damage bonuses to the repping bonus so we keep the MWD bonues? and that way it would really be just a glorified thorax. That was the point, yes. Originally by: Incantare Thread does not deliver. I was expecting a story, funny, surprising or otherwise interesting. Instead I got to read Kehmor's smacking. Awesome.
Meridius Dex Amarr Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:01:00 - [142] I heard about the changes last night in corp chat. God, I can't believe it! Now I can finally fit a decent Amarr fleet sniper for alliance ops. These changes are all wonderful and I commend CCP for finally taking action on so many pressing fronts. Every change so far to the Amarr line has been very smartly done - and I encourage them to continue. -- Meridius Dex -- Amarr = EVE on Hard setting
kessah Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:17:00 - [143] From the new updated changes i still think the Apoc deserves a 125m3 drone bay / bandwidth... kinda annoyed that a ship that lacks in the dps department should get something from the drones.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.02 15:27:00 - [144] Originally by: kessah From the new updated changes i still think the Apoc deserves a 125m3 drone bay / bandwidth... kinda annoyed that a ship that lacks in the dps department should get something from the drones. Apoc is good now, if anything it just need a tiny bit of cpu. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Doomed Predator The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.02 16:34:00 - [145] I'm just happy they're making a change to the caldari rail boats. Now, make the missile boats our closerange ships(eg. cut down missile combat range and increase speed and agility and i'll be happy) and introduce low/hi slot tackling modules and i'll be in heaven. The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 17:39:00 - [146] Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 17:40:29 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 12:37:05 I'm pleased for the apoc, no joke. It was definitely the bs that needed the help more than any other but this seems a little overboard tbh. The Rokh costs 40-50 million isk more than apoc and does significantly less damage at pretty much the same range. In addition its capacitor endurance is eclipsed by the Apocs and they have very similar workable tanks with the apoc probably better with its 8 lows. Thats just the Rokh, the Megathron is also getting the shaft. Tachyons are more painful than rails so this isn't just another Rokh. This apoc is actually going to hurt at 200km. I'd rather buff the other two than revise the Apoc changes tbh but then the Pest needs buffing too and it just gets more complicated... Please... 1st: Apoc has 7 lows not 8. Secodn Rokh has far better tank (As sniper ship), both more HP and resist bonuses. Also Rokh has greater range and greater locking range. Also APOC stil needs some acrobatics to fit. So apoc will be great but won't be anew rokh. Its a middle groud ship, between the rokh and the conventional snipers. Yeah the Rokhs tank is ace with an MWD, 2 TC II's & 2 sensor boosters fitted! You can fit a hardener! I made a mistake with the apocs low-slots, you clearly don't know anything about fitting shield tanking snipers. 1st rule: Shield tanking snipers can't shield tank.. --------------- you all smell!
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 17:50:00 - [147] Originally by: welsh wizard 1st rule: Shield tanking snipers can't shield tank.. Not entirely true, especially for rokh(although you can even "shield tank" tempest with fleet setup) Maybe they changed rokh in some way in last 3 months, but you really really don't need 2 sb and especially you don't need 2 tc. How exactly can you tank tempest or arma or even maelstrom for that matter? You just don't. Sticking 2 LSE and 2 invul and few shield rigs you can still get some kind of "tanked" fleet setup, though I admit I never liked rokh, all that range is not good trade for lack of damage.
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 17:54:00 - [148] Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 17:54:58 Well i guess if you want to struggle hitting BS at 160km and lock the secondary just as it pops then 1 sensor booster with a lock range script is fine. Of course no-one expects the rokhs to do any damage anyway so what does it matter? edit: Anyway my oroginal point still stands, the Apoc with its 3 or 4 slots for tanking is a better fleet tank than the Rokh. --------------- you all smell!
Xerpex Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:10:00 - [149] Originally by: Grimpak Edited by: Grimpak on 02/02/2008 04:47:48 ok let's put it this way: a 6/4/5 deimos with rep bonus means that you lose the mwd bonus. that means less cap. to get over that loss of cap, you need to slap the injector. step 1 solved. now that the ship has only 5 lows instead of 6, you need some sort of tank since you cannot go the "full-gank-no-tank" way (wich was perfectly fine btw), so you slap a med repper. step 2 solved. now to deal with the inherent stupidly short range of the blasters, you need a mwd. step 3 solved. after all these essential modules being fitted (because that's what CCP wants us to do anyways) we are left with just barely enough grid to slap electrons in the ship if we want to slap a plate to help out in the "supposed" role of blaster ship ....and that's without slapping a plate and a med nos in that 6th high slot. where does that leave us? well, let's just say that the damage dealt by a tanked electron deimos (sans drones) is 300 dps. sounds nice, but an ishtar will do far more damage than a deimos now, wich is supposed to be a purely gank ship. tbh if they want to change slots, swap that useless 6th high slot and leave the low slots AND the mwd bonus alone. ...unless of course they want us to nano it, since it will have the same slot setup as the vagabond now and not so large difference in speed, mass and agility You really don't know how to fit blaster ships. Of course, switching the highslot would be better... But why are you trying to fit a plate if you want to fit a repper? Why can't you go full gank (if you really want to) (but then buy a mega or a brutix it's cheaper). Full gank dps doesn't change, you just finally have no cap problems... Deimos' biggest weakness was that it had sucky cap. It's dps hasnt changed, it just lost a bit of tank it couldn't use anyway because it was always capped out, or if gankfitted it lost err dunno very little. In any case, deimos is still kinda crap and expensive, if you want to gank the hell out of stuff, whether with passive or active tanking, buy a brutix or a megathron or a hyperion. If you want a cruiser class high dps ship, buy an ishtar. I do agree with you on that. Also, stop saying "supposed supposed supposed supposed supposed" and look at how a ship IS and instead of how you want it to be in your perfect world. You'll find if you don't try to shoehorn ship fittings into your ideal for it, and instead fit along their strengths you might be more effective. p.s. deimos still sucks, just less than before. In case you didn't get that.
Takeshi Yamato	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:12:00 - [150] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 17:54:58 Well i guess if you want to struggle hitting BS at 160km and lock the secondary just as it pops then 1 sensor booster with a lock range script is fine. Of course no-one expects the rokhs to do any damage anyway so what does it matter? edit: Anyway my oroginal point still stands, the Apoc with its 3 or 4 slots for tanking is a better fleet tank than the Rokh. Have you tried to fit a fleet Apoc and tank it? At least with a damage control or a plate? It's not possible without making sacrifices in either dps or range. Well, you clearly didn't since you're speaking of a fleet Apoc with 3-4 slots dedicated to tanking
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:21:00 - [151] Edited by: Grimpak on 02/02/2008 18:22:13 Originally by: Xerpex You really don't know how to fit blaster ships. Of course, switching the highslot would be better... But why are you trying to fit a plate if you want to fit a repper? Why can't you go full gank (if you really want to) (but then buy a mega or a brutix it's cheaper). Full gank dps doesn't change, you just finally have no cap problems... Deimos' biggest weakness was that it had sucky cap. It's dps hasnt changed, it just lost a bit of tank it couldn't use anyway because it was always capped out, or if gankfitted it lost err dunno very little. In any case, deimos is still kinda crap and expensive, if you want to gank the hell out of stuff, whether with passive or active tanking, buy a brutix or a megathron or a hyperion. If you want a cruiser class high dps ship, buy an ishtar. I do agree with you on that. Also, stop saying "supposed supposed supposed supposed supposed" and look at how a ship IS and instead of how you want it to be in your perfect world. You'll find if you don't try to shoehorn ship fittings into your ideal for it, and instead fit along their strengths you might be more effective. p.s. deimos still sucks, just less than before. In case you didn't get that. try to survive while you whitstand punishment in a 20km strech till you reach optimal range of your guns. by punishment I mean: drones, weapons, web, and so on and so on. the deimos is a short range slugger. by short I mean 1km range. and that means that you have to deal with everything that comes at that range. an active tank in an anemic cap doesn't fair because you'll end up capless and armorless when you reach 5km, with your mwd burning trying to reach optimal range and repping your weak armor. thus the reason of buffer tanks. thus the reason why many people either fit an 800mm plate or a couple of trimarks. thus the reason why an active tank in the cruiser that is the point blank damage dealer by excellence, that took nearly 3 years to fine tune and finally improve the little bit that it needed to be improved and become the one ship that you should never let into 1km away from you, because if you do, you're dead. atm the deimos is a do-or-die ship, and I, like many others, find that ok, because it's the role of the ship. you don't boost a ship by watering down their role. oh and I don't have cap problems in full gank mode, unless I active tank it, but then, I don't have fittings to make the ship go gank anymore. ...and where the hell did I say "supposed" in that post? edit: oh and deimos doesn't suck, you just don't have balls to go inside blaster range with only a DCU and an explosive hardener as a tank. --- planetary interaction idea!
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.02.02 18:53:00 - [152] The Deimos received more cap to compensate for its lost bonus. Not 25% more cap, but closer to 19%.
Khorian Gallente Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:01:00 - [153] Neutron Deimos can reach out to 15km+ It will start doing effective DPS much farther off than 1km. For that Medium Injector you would have to sacrifice Gun size, Damage mod, Range... all things crucial for the Deimos. Please don't do this. ---
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:01:00 - [154] Originally by: J Valkor The Deimos received more cap to compensate for its lost bonus. Not 25% more cap, but closer to 19%. wich means that you'll end up with less cap if you fit a mwd. --- planetary interaction idea!
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:06:00 - [155] Bleh, just give it another 150 grid, problem solved.
Julius Romanus Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:08:00 - [156] Originally by: Gamesguy Bleh, just give it another 150 grid, problem solved. Thank you.
J Valkor Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:16:00 - [157] Originally by: Gamesguy Bleh, just give it another 150 grid, problem solved. Indeed.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.02 19:49:00 - [158] Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 17:40:29 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 12:37:05 I'm pleased for the apoc, no joke. It was definitely the bs that needed the help more than any other but this seems a little overboard tbh. The Rokh costs 40-50 million isk more than apoc and does significantly less damage at pretty much the same range. In addition its capacitor endurance is eclipsed by the Apocs and they have very similar workable tanks with the apoc probably better with its 8 lows. Thats just the Rokh, the Megathron is also getting the shaft. Tachyons are more painful than rails so this isn't just another Rokh. This apoc is actually going to hurt at 200km. I'd rather buff the other two than revise the Apoc changes tbh but then the Pest needs buffing too and it just gets more complicated... Please... 1st: Apoc has 7 lows not 8. Secodn Rokh has far better tank (As sniper ship), both more HP and resist bonuses. Also Rokh has greater range and greater locking range. Also APOC stil needs some acrobatics to fit. So apoc will be great but won't be anew rokh. Its a middle groud ship, between the rokh and the conventional snipers. Yeah the Rokhs tank is ace with an MWD, 2 TC II's & 2 sensor boosters fitted! You can fit a hardener! I made a mistake with the apocs low-slots, you clearly don't know anything about fitting shield tanking snipers. 1st rule: Shield tanking snipers can't shield tank.. Why in any hell woudl a Rokh fit 2 TC? Only a dumb pilot woudl do it. It can !! 8 T2 Rails 2 LSE 1 Invul Field II 1 MWD 2 SB II 1 Track enhancer II 3 DAmage mods, 1 DC 1 AuxCurrent rig. 224 Km range. Capable of tanking ANY DD. Fit 2 extra Shield rigs and you can tank 2 Ragnarok DD!!! Now go learn to fit properly a ship please. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Volzir Amarr	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:17:00 - [159] Edited by: Volzir on 02/02/2008 20:24:15 Originally by: Emperor D'Hoffryn Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 01/02/2008 23:14:33 Edited by: Emperor D''Hoffryn on 01/02/2008 23:13:32 just hopped on SISI, thought Id post here since not many people go to the game dev forum. Zealot and Omen both get 5 turrets, but no extra fittings at this time. So...They get a pointless and mostly useless 5th turret slot why? Right now it requires Eng V, WU V, AWU V to fit 3 Heavy Modal Pulses a Nos and a Rep. I assume we get the fifth turret slot so that we can run 5 small lasers on our cruisers? Drop this extra turret crap, give us a BASE 5% PG increase and a 5% Cap increase. This is not extreme, this is not absurd, this is not incomprehensible. The problem with the omen is it's idiotic fitting. Actually it must obviously be to fit 5 small lasers. The fitting is better, the tracking is better, and if you don't have to stuff a RCU or PDU into the low slots you can fit a Heatsink and 4 guns (5 guns soon, YAY!) and get MORE damage than with the 3 cruiser sized weapons you can barely stuff on there. Soon we'll start mounting Smalls to BS's too. Member of the second best race in the galaxy.
Altaica Amur	Posted - 2008.02.02 20:36:00 - [160] Just as a change of pace I'm going to mention what CCP seemed to have done quite right with the Apoc. Apoc: 400dps/2763 alpha @ 210km with 55k effective hp Rokh: 321dps/1688 alpha @ 224km with 97k effective hp Mega: 351dps/1847 alpha @ 183km with 72k effective hp Tempest: 356dps/3475 alpha @ 152km with 62k effective hp Fitting issues meant that it payed for those highly ganky tachyons with a drop to effective HP. For closer range work the range bonus seems to put it in a similar damage and tanking catagory to the megathron doing 950 to it's 1130 but being able to do such without mwding right up close and instead being able to hang back at 23km or so and pound away on a target. Also as a proud Rokh-flier I love to hear that the other Caldari rail boats are being given a validity upgrade with the extra turrets. All in all I think there are quite a few nice changes being proposed here as well as some less popular ones with the Deimos.
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.02.02 21:12:00 - [161] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 17:40:29 Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: welsh wizard Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 12:37:05 I'm pleased for the apoc, no joke. It was definitely the bs that needed the help more than any other but this seems a little overboard tbh. The Rokh costs 40-50 million isk more than apoc and does significantly less damage at pretty much the same range. In addition its capacitor endurance is eclipsed by the Apocs and they have very similar workable tanks with the apoc probably better with its 8 lows. Thats just the Rokh, the Megathron is also getting the shaft. Tachyons are more painful than rails so this isn't just another Rokh. This apoc is actually going to hurt at 200km. I'd rather buff the other two than revise the Apoc changes tbh but then the Pest needs buffing too and it just gets more complicated... Please... 1st: Apoc has 7 lows not 8. Secodn Rokh has far better tank (As sniper ship), both more HP and resist bonuses. Also Rokh has greater range and greater locking range. Also APOC stil needs some acrobatics to fit. So apoc will be great but won't be anew rokh. Its a middle groud ship, between the rokh and the conventional snipers. Yeah the Rokhs tank is ace with an MWD, 2 TC II's & 2 sensor boosters fitted! You can fit a hardener! I made a mistake with the apocs low-slots, you clearly don't know anything about fitting shield tanking snipers. 1st rule: Shield tanking snipers can't shield tank.. Why in any hell woudl a Rokh fit 2 TC? Only a dumb pilot woudl do it. It can !! 8 T2 Rails 2 LSE 1 Invul Field II 1 MWD 2 SB II 1 Track enhancer II 3 DAmage mods, 1 DC 1 AuxCurrent rig. 224 Km range. Capable of tanking ANY DD. Fit 2 extra Shield rigs and you can tank 2 Ragnarok DD!!! Now go learn to fit properly a ship please. Oh yeah, I can tank 2 DD, I have uber fleet setup Fleet fights aren't exactly fought in EFT/Quickfit and rokh is pretty crappy fleet ship compared to mega(which is better ship if you have gall. bs 4 and some armor skills). Though about tanking amarr fleet ships, I wonder if WW has amarr alt(seems he doesn't:P). It's like tanking fleet mega, only keep in mind you need 2 lows for rcus/pdus or fat wallet for ancillary c. routers...
welsh wizard Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.02 21:17:00 - [162] Edited by: welsh wizard on 02/02/2008 21:23:06 Welsh flies amarr but not the BS admittedly. I am pretty clueless about Apocalypse' tbh but it doesn't take a genius to see that paying more for a rokh when you could fly an apoc is a silly decision. Same goes for the Mega I guess (which I do fly), damage is king in fleet and that never changes. --------------- you all smell!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 21:55:00 - [163] Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 21:55:43 You dont need ACRs or lots of slots for RCU IIs to fleet tank an Apoc. You just have to be content with not shooting 230km and doing 400 DPS. Since no other snipers can do that anyway, its not like its losing anything when its only doing 370 DPS at 190/170km with the best tracking in the game and 87k EHP before rigs.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:23:00 - [164] Can sombody try this on Sisi (I have no skills for Deimos): highs: all neut/ion blasters (best mix you can fit med: mwd, web, 2x LSE II lows: DC II, 2-3 MFS, PDS/RCU as needed to fit guns ? I guess that's the new face of the ship ... Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:24:00 - [165] Originally by: LUKEC Oh yeah, I can tank 2 DD, I have uber fleet setup Fleet fights aren't exactly fought in EFT/Quickfit and rokh is pretty crappy fleet ship compared to mega(which is better ship if you have gall. bs 4 and some armor skills). Though about tanking amarr fleet ships, I wonder if WW has amarr alt(seems he doesn't:P). It's like tanking fleet mega, only keep in mind you need 2 lows for rcus/pdus or fat wallet for ancillary c. routers... Ooo yeahh i am soo EFT warrior. That explain why your fleet (bob) has never been able to insta kill my sniper ship, neither your Titans killed me with its doomsdays, in this whole war, and I have been on almost all major engagements where IAC fleet was present. pffff yeahh I am sooo noob having survived all times I was primaried by snipers or hit by a Doomsday makes me so inferior to pilots that loose their ships just to get 5-10% more DPS. YEahh right. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Jonny JoJo Amarr The Imperial Guards	Posted - 2008.02.02 22:55:00 - [166] you guys are aware the new apoc runs out of cap after a minute or so? 2 x rcu if you want fleet fit still :( Sig locked, lack of Eve content
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:30:00 - [167] Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 23:30:50 Originally by: Hugh Ruka Can sombody try this on Sisi (I have no skills for Deimos): highs: all neut/ion blasters (best mix you can fit med: mwd, web, 2x LSE II lows: DC II, 2-3 MFS, PDS/RCU as needed to fit guns ? I guess that's the new face of the ship ... No scram? Kill them by bumping them and stopping them from alligning and using your buffer to keep you alive? Originally by: Jonny JoJo you guys are aware the new apoc runs out of cap after a minute or so? 2 x rcu if you want fleet fit still :( No, it doesnt, and no, it doesnt.
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:31:00 - [168] Edited by: Xequecal on 02/02/2008 23:31:11 Originally by: Jonny JoJo you guys are aware the new apoc runs out of cap after a minute or so? 2 x rcu if you want fleet fit still :( No, no it doesn't. >5 minutes with 8 Tachyons. It has better cap stability than the Hyperion. The main issue is the complete lack of any kind of passive tank, which all the other snipers can fit.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.02 23:32:00 - [169] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Jonny JoJo you guys are aware the new apoc runs out of cap after a minute or so? 2 x rcu if you want fleet fit still :( No, no it doesn't. >5 minutes with 8 Tachyons. The main issue is the complete lack of any kind of passive tank, which all the other snipers can fit. it can still fit that tank if it doesnt mind not hitting 230km. Drop 2 tracking mods for a DC and EANM and its about as good as everything else and still shooting to ~190km.
Captain Batou Deathwatch Inc. Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.02.03 00:51:00 - [170] You know,I just started playing this game less than a year ago. I think im gonna quit. Not cause the game isn't fun, it is but every time i take the time to train into a new fangled ships they get nerfed. First it was the Manticore, thanks for the damp nerf. Second, the T2 torp raven. The h#ll is that good for when the ship does 130kms? Then I trained millions of points into gunnery and armor,ect, to gallente... Now its the Deimos? I just bought that ship last week!! You guys s#ck, plain and simple. What is it with you guys (GM's, dev's, ect) that you have to kill a good thing? Is it some sort of uncontrollable reflex? The deimos has a so-so tank. Which i think is its offset for so much dps, an inherent trade off for a 100mil isk ship, before fittings. Now you go and do this. What the heck am i supposed to do with another mid and no PG boost? If you guys nerf the deimos I'm telling all my geek friends how great this game is but how the management is running into the ground. You know why it's not as popular as those other MMO's? Cause you keep changing sh$t. leave it alone. ffs.... BURN AND DIE Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.03 01:03:00 - [171] wait, something is wrong with the t2 torp raven? Are you insane?
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.02.03 01:15:00 - [172] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 21:55:43 You dont need ACRs or lots of slots for RCU IIs to fleet tank an Apoc. You just have to be content with not shooting 230km and doing 400 DPS. Since no other snipers can do that anyway, its not like its losing anything when its only doing 370 DPS at 190/170km with the best tracking in the game and 87k EHP before rigs. 190km optimal, 370 DPS and 87K EHP is a rather large claim for an Apoc, what kind of fitting are you using to get that? -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.02.03 02:09:00 - [173] Originally by: Kadoes Khan Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 21:55:43 You dont need ACRs or lots of slots for RCU IIs to fleet tank an Apoc. You just have to be content with not shooting 230km and doing 400 DPS. Since no other snipers can do that anyway, its not like its losing anything when its only doing 370 DPS at 190/170km with the best tracking in the game and 87k EHP before rigs. 190km optimal, 370 DPS and 87K EHP is a rather large claim for an Apoc, what kind of fitting are you using to get that? Its a double plated Megabeam Apoc with no MWD.
Akiman Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.02.03 04:42:00 - [174] why noone wants to use reactor control unit II for deimos? cant u fit 5 neutrons and injector with RCU II? fk hardeners.if this not solves boost grid! :D dont make every ship HAVE TO use rigs to come up with a reasonable fitting. they should buff not for making the base fitting.** btw welcome to amarr hegemony :)
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.03 05:12:00 - [175] I can fly the apoc and rohk equally well. And I do not feel the apoc is stepping on the toes of Rohk. The rohk may not be able to put out the same DPS as a Apoc, but it can take alot more. The Apoc may be better than the gallente and minmatar Sniper BS's. But if you fit an apoc up for close range and put it up against those BS's it will get chew up and spat out. I think that it is balanced and diverse. Look at the bonuses the ships get, do you see a range bonus on the minmatar or gallente BS? The 7.5% is a nice range bonus. This has got to be one of CCP's best changes. Giving amarr a great fleet ship.
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.02.03 09:51:00 - [176] Originally by: Akiman why noone wants to use reactor control unit II for deimos? cant u fit 5 neutrons and injector with RCU II? f**k hardeners.if this not solves boost grid! :D btw welcome to amarr hegemony :) Get real, please. It loses onew low, how are you gonan fit RCU, tank and at least one MFS? The proposed changes are just wrong, there's no logic in them. Is there anyone who likes these changes? Gellente were nerfed enough, why are you turning our only real HAC into a battlecruiser?
Hugh Ruka Caldari Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:00:00 - [177] Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 23:30:50 Originally by: Hugh Ruka Can sombody try this on Sisi (I have no skills for Deimos): highs: all neut/ion blasters (best mix you can fit med: mwd, web, 2x LSE II lows: DC II, 2-3 MFS, PDS/RCU as needed to fit guns ? I guess that's the new face of the ship ... No scram? Kill them by bumping them and stopping them from alligning and using your buffer to keep you alive? Originally by: Jonny JoJo you guys are aware the new apoc runs out of cap after a minute or so? 2 x rcu if you want fleet fit still :( No, it doesnt, and no, it doesnt. I did not state it was a solo ship :-) Just that small HAC gang damage dealer ... Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:05:00 - [178] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Kadoes Khan Originally by: Goumindong Edited by: Goumindong on 02/02/2008 21:55:43 You dont need ACRs or lots of slots for RCU IIs to fleet tank an Apoc. You just have to be content with not shooting 230km and doing 400 DPS. Since no other snipers can do that anyway, its not like its losing anything when its only doing 370 DPS at 190/170km with the best tracking in the game and 87k EHP before rigs. 190km optimal, 370 DPS and 87K EHP is a rather large claim for an Apoc, what kind of fitting are you using to get that? Its a double plated Megabeam Apoc with no MWD. So in other words a terrible setup.
Kay Han Caldari Nothing Remains.	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:20:00 - [179] didn¦t crawl throught teh 7 pages. But... yes... the new deimos stuff is kinda sucky. I always hoped for a 4th med slot. but without boosting teh grid abit it will be very very very diffucult to fit somethign else then electrons, when using a Cap injector... also the repiar bonus amount sucks. even with teh 250 more cap, we will lose cap after all. so a cap injector is more or less mandatory then. well guess there will be much work finding new setups.... kay Originally by: CCP Atropos Personally I think Amarr ships should consume slaves in a similar way that other ships consume ammunition.
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.02.03 10:46:00 - [180] Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 03/02/2008 10:46:05 Just a weird thought, since they essentially eliminated the utility slot on the Zealot (by adding another turret) why not do the same for the Deimos? That 6th high-slot is probably not used very often since you lack the grid to drop a nos in there when fitted with the biggest cannons you can cram on. Move that to a low-slot, giving it 5 highs (all turrets), 4 mids and 6 lows. Keeps what tank it has, add more utility with that extra mid and drops a high-slot you could rarely use to begin with. The bonus changes aren't bad, the repair bonus should give it a little more staying power although the removal of the MWD cap-bonus hurts its sustainability.
Sergo Mor'Zert	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:10:00 - [181] well im wondering if paladin will inherit this new bonuses (more cap and range on ship bonus) from apoc hull... it will be so sweet
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:19:00 - [182] Originally by: Sergo Mor'Zert well im wondering if paladin will inherit this new bonuses (more cap and range on ship bonus) from apoc hull... it will be so sweet The Paladin is anything but a bad ship as it stands, i doubt they'll change it.
Edriahn Gallente Bulgarian Mafia Squad Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2008.02.03 11:35:00 - [183] Deimos is just fine now. Adding one more med slot will not really make much difference, cuz the ship doesn't need it. But taking one of the lows and changing the bonus means less speed, worse cap, less gank. I'm struggling to find a reason for the changes, but there isn't one...
Jasper Mieville	Posted - 2008.02.04 12:17:00 - [184] Please, please don¦t spoil the Deimos like this. Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away.
XrayZ Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.04 14:38:00 - [185] AARRRRRGH!!!!! man **** that, CCP I WARN YE, dont mess with the blaster boats. ENOUGH ALREADY! players train for ships, train for months and are slaving to get isk for the ship/equip, and u guys come and change it?! wtf?! decide and let it be, enough i say. --------------------------------------
Herschel Yamamoto	Posted - 2008.02.04 17:03:00 - [186] I like all of these changes, even if 3/4 of them are boosting a race I don't fly. The Apoc has desperately needed something fixed ever since its mining niche was taken over by barges, and sniping is a good one. The Omen, similarly, needed something done to actually make it better than a Maller, and an extra turret is just the ticket. And the Deimos changes are just awesome - repper bonus > EANM, cap boost = cap penalty bonus, and cap injector >> no cap injector. I've been avoiding buying one before now, because I didn't think they're worth the money, but I'll definitely be picking one up as soon as the changes are confirmed and I need a PvP pwnmobile.
Shintoko Akahoshi Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.05 04:24:00 - [187] /signed on the "Deimos pilots opposed to this change" I fly a Deimos. I'm unusual, in that I use an active rep. I don't run it continuously, I just pulse it to keep the armor up. My Deimos is otherwise a fairly standard fast (non-nano'd) split resist/gank neutron Deimos. You know: Death and/or glory, run in fast into a tight orbit and blow the crap out of your target. In order to get this pulsed armor rep, I have nearly perfect cap skills, and have a CCC rig fitted. My lows typically contain the MAR II, a DCU II, an EANM II, a T2 explosive hardener, and 2 mag stab IIs. Now, make the change. Drop a low. What is it going to be? Will I drop a mag stab, and have a low damage gank HAC? Doubtful, it is a gank ship, after all. Drop the DCU, and lose the structure buffer? Naw. I need that, and the DCU gives me a nice non-stacking armor resist bonus, as well. Lose the EANM II, and lose the benefit of my armor compensation skills? Not likely. Drop the explosive hardener, and have a huge hole in my resists? What's it going to be? I'll either have to have a low damage Deimos, or one with a reduced ability to tank. In return, I get better efficiency on the MAR II. Which I'll need, because 3 of my 4 options for changing to the 5 slot Deimos hurt my resists. Whoop-de-doo. Of course, since I have to fit a power-hungry cap booster, I'll probably drop a mag stab, and reduce to ion blasters, or something. Nothing like the pinnacle of Gallente high-damage blaster cruisers fitting sub-standard blasters to go with it's now sub-standard gank fitting. What's that? The Deimos loses armor resists in the change, too? Well, I'm sure glad it get's the rep bonus... So, now I've got a Deimos with crappier damage, and a shorter weapons range, since I had to downgrade the blasters. Well, good thing it has the MWD cap bonus. Oh, wait. That's gone, too. At least they increased the cap by 250... Oh, wait. That's still a net loss of cap over the old Deimos. So, in the end, it's a good thing it now has a fourth mid slot, to run the rep, which will have to run constantly to ward off the increased damage to the crappier tank, and for a longer time, since the ship won't kill things as fast. And I can still sit there and stare at the empty sixth high slot, just like today! Good thing I can fly Zealots... Shin's writings
Megan Maynard Minmatar Clearspace Operations Carpe Diem.	Posted - 2008.02.05 05:49:00 - [188] Apoc is one scary ship now. 8 tach 2's with that kind of range...................... Miz Stelth Bomerz iz the ****nit.
Camulos Redne Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.05 07:21:00 - [189] having problems fitting the zealot with a non-nano 0.0 setup. (ie. mwd and cap booster) I either run out of cap or cpu or both pretty quickly. Yes I've tried using FMP, both active and passive tanks. If I had to choose between PG and CPU I'd choose more CPU. Apoc seems like a good sniper boat now, had no fitting problems. I use to have an uba sig. Then it got wtfpwned!
Twilight Mourning	Posted - 2008.02.05 08:33:00 - [190] Originally by: Megan Maynard Apoc is one scary ship now. 8 tach 2's with that kind of range...................... Have you SEEN what happens when you try to fit 8 Tach II on an Apoc? shiver It's not pretty. Half your lows go to just fitting the damn things.
Julius Romanus Amarr Blood Corsair's Blood Blind	Posted - 2008.02.05 08:36:00 - [191] Originally by: Twilight Mourning Originally by: Megan Maynard Apoc is one scary ship now. 8 tach 2's with that kind of range...................... Have you SEEN what happens when you try to fit 8 Tach II on an Apoc? shiver It's not pretty. Half your lows go to just fitting the damn things. Apoc +1k base powergrid on sisi. The devs saw.
Astria Tiphareth Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.05 08:55:00 - [192] Originally by: Captain Batou You know,I just started playing this game less than a year ago. I think im gonna quit. Not cause the game isn't fun, it is but every time i take the time to train into a new fangled ships they get nerfed. First it was the Manticore, thanks for the damp nerf. Second, the T2 torp raven. The h#ll is that good for when the ship does 130kms? Then I trained millions of points into gunnery and armor,ect, to gallente... Now its the Deimos? I just bought that ship last week!! You guys s#ck, plain and simple. What is it with you guys (GM's, dev's, ect) that you have to kill a good thing? Is it some sort of uncontrollable reflex? The deimos has a so-so tank. Which i think is its offset for so much dps, an inherent trade off for a 100mil isk ship, before fittings. Now you go and do this. What the heck am i supposed to do with another mid and no PG boost? If you guys nerf the deimos I'm telling all my geek friends how great this game is but how the management is running into the ground. You know why it's not as popular as those other MMO's? Cause you keep changing sh$t. leave it alone. ffs.... Originally by: XrayZ AARRRRRGH!!!!! man **** that, CCP I WARN YE, dont mess with the blaster boats. ENOUGH ALREADY! players train for ships, train for months and are slaving to get isk for the ship/equip, and u guys come and change it?! wtf?! decide and let it be, enough i say. Astria tries hard to avoid laughing uncontrollably, and fails. I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh, it's clear you're upset, but really, you do know how MMOs work, right? PvP in every MMO I've ever played, and that's quite a few now, goes something like this: The devs come up with what seems like a reasonably balanced set of builds, ships, modules, powers, whatever is appropriate for the game genre. Human ingenuity, being that pesky thing it is, goes and finds something they didn't think of, and creates something that is too powerful, unbalanced, etc. Unsurprisingly, a lot of players who get stomped on by this new approach either complain or use it themselves, and the devs think, hmm, this isn't really what we had in mind, one ship build being more powerful than anything else, or a set of ships becoming unused because there are just plain better alternatives. A dev then applies a giant nerfbat to the given problem area, which may not be directly the one that everyone expects, because they think, well if we change that, then that other thing gets screwed up, so what can we change that doesn't break loads and loads of things... A series of unexpected side-effects crop up and both cause new builds to be found, and new problems. Human ingenuity goes at it again, from both players and devs, and rinse and repeat. Welcome to the world of development. As a software engineer myself, I can safely say that devs never have time for perfect fixes, every possibility analysed, and it's extremely hard to get accurate customer feedback because half or more of the people whining are doing it out of self-interest (i.e. my given approach is now sucking, I want you to make it better rather than me use any effort to adapt). It's not easy, it's not simple, so cut them a little slack. (I hasten to add for disclaimer's sake that I do not work at CCP). You may have a point that the Deimos changes are perhaps excessive, but ranting and raving and giving yourself high blood pressure isn't going to change anything, beyond possibly damaging your own health. Recognise that the ship you fly today may not be the ship you fly tomorrow, that times change, and that changes that deemed by the devs to be for the greater good might well be to your personal detriment. That, sadly, is life. It's annoying to be on the receiving end, but it does and will continue to happen, in every MMO. To quote a famous saying, you can't please everyone all of the time. ___ "If you can't debate using logic & fact, and at least recognise other people's point of view, don't waste time posting on forums. It only makes you look like a teenage idiot."
XrayZ Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.05 09:50:00 - [193] i understand what u mean... but changing ships that are already good is a bit.. well, "meh" tbh. zealot change is good, im glad for amarr hac pilots. but changing a ship that 80% of the pilots thinks is good, will just make angry pod pilots. as i see it now, we are going to have 3 similar ships in game, phobos, deimos and vigilant. --------------------------------------
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.02.05 10:12:00 - [194] Originally by: Gamesguy So in other words a terrible setup. I managed to get pretty close to that with a MWD fitted: 8x Tachyon Beam Laser II MWD II 2x Sensor Booster II Tracking Computer II 2x Heat Sink II 2x RCU II 2x Plate IFFA I Algid Energy Administrations Unit I 2x Trimark I 79k EHP, 357 DPS, 188km optimal range. Of course, this is a pretty theoretical setup, as nobody actually has Energy Weapon Rigging V which is required to fit it. AWU V is also needed. That leaves you at 631.2/631.25 CPU and 33566/33899 PG.
mama guru Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.05 12:35:00 - [195] One thing is for sure the nano ishtar got itself a new rival http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/Midgerto/LOLZEALOT.jpg EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:19:00 - [196] Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Gamesguy So in other words a terrible setup. I managed to get pretty close to that with a MWD fitted: 8x Tachyon Beam Laser II MWD II 2x Sensor Booster II Tracking Computer II 2x Heat Sink II 2x RCU II 2x Plate IFFA I Algid Energy Administrations Unit I 2x Trimark I 79k EHP, 357 DPS, 188km optimal range. Of course, this is a pretty theoretical setup, as nobody actually has Energy Weapon Rigging V which is required to fit it. AWU V is also needed. That leaves you at 631.2/631.25 CPU and 33566/33899 PG. Not to mention its rigged, not exactly fair to compare it to unrigged setups.
Aurora Tagan Viziam	Posted - 2008.02.05 13:38:00 - [197] waheeey! Another reason for me to get back into this wounderful game . Changes are good, they just don't happen enough!
Gorebane Gallente Venom.	Posted - 2008.02.05 14:44:00 - [198] Oh my lord, the loldeimos changes can't possibly make it to Tranquility.... I think they must have expected this outrage given their comment in the dev blog stating they'll be keeping an eye on the deimos change. Seriously, a ship that was a pain to fit without a repper will now be a nightmare to fit with a repper and a cap injector! \o/ The universally frowned upon 6th high slot remains and the ship loses a low slot...k. And a rep bonus? Ok. That's like changing the drone bonuses on the Dominix to a cargo space bonus.
Xequecal	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:07:00 - [199] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Xequecal Originally by: Gamesguy So in other words a terrible setup. I managed to get pretty close to that with a MWD fitted: 8x Tachyon Beam Laser II MWD II 2x Sensor Booster II Tracking Computer II 2x Heat Sink II 2x RCU II 2x Plate IFFA I Algid Energy Administrations Unit I 2x Trimark I 79k EHP, 357 DPS, 188km optimal range. Of course, this is a pretty theoretical setup, as nobody actually has Energy Weapon Rigging V which is required to fit it. AWU V is also needed. That leaves you at 631.2/631.25 CPU and 33566/33899 PG. Not to mention its rigged, not exactly fair to compare it to unrigged setups. I don't see how you hit anywhere near his stats without rigs. If you want a cheaper setup, just take off the two trimarks. The CPU rig costs like 4m.
Formulka	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:40:00 - [200] Originally by: mama guru One thing is for sure the nano ishtar got itself a new rival http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/Midgerto/LOLZEALOT.jpg fail, one more turret needs at least 247.5 grid and you have 151.4 left ... Zealot is not getting grid buff imho
Camulos Redne Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:42:00 - [201] Originally by: Formulka Originally by: mama guru One thing is for sure the nano ishtar got itself a new rival http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/Midgerto/LOLZEALOT.jpg fail, one more turret needs at least 247.5 grid and you have 151.4 left ... Zealot is not getting grid buff imho beat me to it. I was also going to say swap the named MWD for a MWDII and make the booster named. I use to have an uba sig. Then it got wtfpwned!
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.05 18:48:00 - [202] Originally by: mama guru One thing is for sure the nano ishtar got itself a new rival http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc59/Midgerto/LOLZEALOT.jpg Nanoishtar can easily fit a cap battery, Zealot can't. Not with the rep or any buffer to speak of. Note the 123m3 of cargo space in your screen shot. Not very good for cap injectors. The Sacrilege is still a better nanoship, but Zealot did just get a lot better with this change. I'm already getting evil ideas. And for those of you complaining about Zealot being better than a Deimos... did you forget about the 5x med ecm drones the Deimos can carry? Plus, with a little creativity the Deimos is now a more feasible nanoship. I'll definitely be picking one up after this change.
Msobe	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:18:00 - [203] Really, CCP said the new zealot is better than the old deimos. Thats why they changed it. On their internal test servers, they weren't able to come up with any set up that gave the deimos a chance against the new zealot. So they tried changing the deimos before all the gallente started screaming "OMG WTF you stealth nerfed us AGAIN!!!!" . . . but in the end, just got "WTF OMG why did you do that and nobody even asked for that?!?" Really with that, they were damned if they do and damned if they don't. I bet next time they just don't make proactive changes, and let people whine for ages before doing anything. I don't fly the ship, so have no opinion on the change. I do catch the irony of it though - hmmm, we'll help the ship tank, lets take a low slot from it!" Reminds me of the eanm nerf that was supposed to buff amarr. Yep, beat on armor tanks to help a race that, well, armor tanks. Here again we drop armor resists, but its all to help amarr! They made it pretty clear in teh dev blog that they would keep an eye on the deimos changes, so from the reaction, I think its a safe bet they don't go ahead with what they had planned. ;-)
Yuki Li Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:53:00 - [204] Deimos changes are pretty funny. What's the point in having a Myrmidon, Brutix & Deimos all with the same bonus? Where's the benefit in flying the Deimos over the others? Speed doesn't mean a damn thing when you spend your entire fight in web range. I don't fly a Deimos, but now it's just an expensive Brutix with less hp and more resists. What's the point? Website Recruiting
Wee Gallente	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:32:00 - [205] While 80% of Amarr ships all have the same bonus. And at least a repair bonus is a bonus, and not simply permission to shoot at things a bit longer. Changes are surely moving us in the right direction. But the deimos is just weird, man.
Angelic Eviaran	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:36:00 - [206] Originally by: Msobe Really, CCP said the new zealot is better than the old deimos. Thats why they changed it. On their internal test servers, they weren't able to come up with any set up that gave the deimos a chance against the new zealot. So they tried changing the deimos before all the gallente started screaming "OMG WTF you stealth nerfed us AGAIN!!!!" . . . but in the end, just got "WTF OMG why did you do that and nobody even asked for that?!?" Really with that, they were damned if they do and damned if they don't. I bet next time they just don't make proactive changes, and let people whine for ages before doing anything. I don't fly the ship, so have no opinion on the change. I do catch the irony of it though - hmmm, we'll help the ship tank, lets take a low slot from it!" Reminds me of the eanm nerf that was supposed to buff amarr. Yep, beat on armor tanks to help a race that, well, armor tanks. Here again we drop armor resists, but its all to help amarr! They made it pretty clear in teh dev blog that they would keep an eye on the deimos changes, so from the reaction, I think its a safe bet they don't go ahead with what they had planned. ;-) Haha, deimos no change against new zealot? Dont make me laugh. Stick 5xmedium ecm drones in it and zealot cant to anything at all. Deimos is fine, stop whine.

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