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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Valadeya uthanaras
Killjoy.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 15:55:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Valadeya uthanaras on 02/02/2008 15:57:47
LOTS of <3 again CCP
zealot/omen: A great change, shows that you listened to the player based, tried IT , and IT work, amd its balanced(no drone, 3 mid)
apocalypse:
On that one goes most of my capacitors issuwa while sniping, and I will finally have a good range, also, its finally give a reason to amarr to fly one but , dont forget to change the navy issue too :)
Really happy that you also listened to the player base about the Tracking disruptor
they where underpowered, moslty because they were just inneffective agaisnt most turret.....except laser... now they will also break down the falloff like they should have for a while, Barrage and ammo of the kind where overpowered with their massive falloff bonus, this put a counter to them
lots of <3
deimos: It was playing into the amarr bondaries with 3 med and 6 low, now its perfect, still have the highest damage , and for roaming gang that ship is great, and like many pointed out, finnaly it will be cap stable
LOTS of <3
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Waxau
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:07:00 -
[122]
Vulture needs +1 Turret in all honesty. All is being discussed in detail down in the Eve Development section if folks want to query/back up/argue etc.
Also, i honestly donyt see why Explosive resists are being lowered on shield tanks. Theyre not our highest resist, nor are Amarr affected. It only boosts minmatar even more, which lets face it - Dont need to be boosted anymore.
Deimos change is uncalled for, unneeded, and so on.
So im afraid, bar from the upgraded turret slots, the rest is a waste of time.
Apoc change makes it useful, but outclasses many other ships - Balanced ships.
Deimos change is pointless
Ferox change without a vulture change? Hah...Ferox now outdamages my vulture. Cool eh? 
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Ariel Dawn
Beets and Gravy Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:10:00 -
[123]
Falloff on Tracking Disruptors is perhaps the largest single Minmatar nerf in EVE. Gallente Blasterships fight under TD range usually, Amarrian Pulses have almost no falloff, but Minmatar completely rely on staying out of range in falloff.
A single TD will cut their DPS by approximately 40-70% (depending on large or medium ACs). The solution people are probably going to say is 'get closer'; but Minmatar ships having the lowest DPS and worst tanks really do not have that option.
Please re-think falloff reductions on TDs or introduce new ways to increase falloff and counter the effect they will have on ACs.
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Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:11:00 -
[124]
 Originally by: Aslann
Originally by: Ogul
But let's just all pretend that this HAM Cerberus simultaneously outdamaging, outtanking and outranging a Deimos is actually possible.
I wonder how much DPS a blaster deimos does at 100km, ow thats right, 0. Might not outtank the deimos (with its 'wonderfull' new bonus), but 2 out of 3 isnt bad tbh :P
And what does that have to do with anything?
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This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:12:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Falloff on Tracking Disruptors is perhaps the largest single Minmatar nerf in EVE. Gallente Blasterships fight under TD range usually, Amarrian Pulses have almost no falloff, but Minmatar completely rely on staying out of range in falloff.
A single TD will cut their DPS by approximately 40-70% (depending on large or medium ACs). The solution people are probably going to say is 'get closer'; but Minmatar ships having the lowest DPS and worst tanks really do not have that option.
Please re-think falloff reductions on TDs or introduce new ways to increase falloff and counter the effect they will have on ACs.
And how can amarr defend themselves from 40km web kiting? They cant. TDs are fine.
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The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Darpz
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:14:00 -
[126]
waying in here as well,
all the changes seem ok in theory.
eagle, I see some fitting issues here, hard to fit 250s + a tank without fititng mods, maybe this should be looked into.
deimos, this is a nerf not a boost. I agree it needs the midslot but not at the expence of a now with scripts more valuable lowslot. take its extra high and give it another mid. the rep bonus is fine as long as you change the cap you give the rax to be the same as it was before with the cap bonus at 5 like you did the apoc.
apoc change looks solid, and if you do lower the fitting on tachs (please do) it could be a force to be recconed with.
tracking disrupters, ok cool, but still won't be used alot because missles can't be combated. give them a script to combat missles in some way, (possibly a script that reduces the explosion velocty or flight time)
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Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:15:00 -
[127]
Hm.
I can't comment much on those ships, as I don't fly any of them. So just a quick question: Isn't the Zealot the anti-support HAC, not the close-range HAC? If it is, you need to make it better at sniping, not at brawling. If it isn't, you need to change the Sacrilege drastically.
As a Minmatar pilot, I'm somewhat sad to see our ships not getting any love at all. There is quite a bunch of them that needs it (especially with the TD change, see below). But I will just assume that will be done in a upcoming devblog.
There's one change here that I can comment on, and that's the TD change. Uhm. I would suggest re-thinking that. TDs right now are the only ewar that is effective as a single module on an unbonused ship.
Minmatar AC boats rely on range to fight.
As pulses have larger range, it is currently possible (almost required!) to fit a single TD on Minmatar ships to fight Pulse laser users. No other ship is currently massively negatively affected by the optimal range disruption of TDs. That means right now that TDs give Minmatar AC boats a small advantage against Pulse boats at the expensve of one mid slot.
This change will now make it possible for everyone to fit a TD and make about every AC boat basically useless. I'm sure everyone is getting wet dreams thinking about forcing every vagabond out there to fight in web range, but I'm not too sure this is really the best approach in game balance. (Actually, as a Deimos user, i'd fit a TD and passive tank with the new Deimos, but that might be me)
Please reconsider the tracking disruptors. I'm not saying to not affect falloff (though I would like that :-)), but maybe make it so that you need 2-3 modules to achieve the 50% range reduction it currently has as a single module on an unbonused ship.
Also, please consider boosting TP and defender missiles :-(
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Minessis
Strife Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:16:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Minessis on 02/02/2008 16:19:42
The deimos was a fine ship. These new changes make no sense at all. With any intelligent pilot the ship was able to push its resists quite high and ultimately had no cap problems unless you were trying to tank an entire fleet at a gate camp or something like that - anyone can tell you that in those odds any ship should fail.
As to the total loss of its T1 predecessor's mwd bonus; you just totally destroyed the deimos - tell me, are we supposed to now fill our cargo hold with 7 cap booster 400s and perma inject our cap just to mwd up to someone, let alone, activate our guns and other mods... heaven forbid we actually need to use the repper because by that time, we'll have probably 3 boosters left!! Not to mention that the cap injector will nerf the guns you can fit down to electrons making the ship's dps goto the toilet.
Now onto the loss of a low slot; now that the capacitor is inherently ruined you think it's a going to help our tank by removing our ability to fit that extra energized membrane? No, this instead ultimately hurts the tank and coupled with the 10% loss to em armor resist coming shortly, that's a low slot we will surely be needing.
The armor repair bonus is a joke, as I stated before, by the time you will be activating your repper, you will be almost out of cap boosters and totally f*ckt at the loss of the resist the 6th low slot used to provide.
Finally, the +250 cap energy... what's that for? The mwd will destroy that with its penalty...
If this patch includes the deimos changes, the deimos will be ruined. There was nothing wrong with the deimos. I fly it alot and had quite a lot of fun in it. I don't recall anyone complaining about it and if they did it was because they had no idea how to fit it or fly a blaster boat.
To go through with these changes will be the death of a very good HAC. I urge you to rethink these changes.
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Paulo Banderez
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:25:00 -
[129]
I'm not convinced the Deimos needs modifying. If you really have to fiddle, then please move the 6th high to become a 4th mid.
Cheers
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Enbenzylmene
The Fated
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:31:00 -
[130]
Deimos - if it ain't broke don't fix it.
The deimos is great the way it is. If CCP have a twisted desire to meddle with it just because they can, then remove the extra high slot and add a med.
I hope the devs will listen to the sentiments in this thread regarding the deimos and you can't tell me to quit my whining becuase i don't fly the deimos, but i know there is nothing wrong with it.
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:35:00 -
[131]
Im guessing the reason why Zealot is called short ranged is because the other sniper hacs outrange it and zealot kinda shines with pulses more then beams as anti support. So its kinda short range but its good now :-)
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The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Salvis Tallan
Gallente
The Shadow Order
SMASH Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:37:00 -
[132]
Sorry, I fly a deimos and I really do not like these changes. Adding an extra midslot is a good move, but removing a low slot AND expecting people to fit an armor rep is not good. Remove the extra high slot that no one ever uses and let it keep the low slot (I would ask for another lowslot but that might be pushing it). It also needs its cap bonus back. If you do not fit an MWD its just about useless, and now we have to give up 25% cap? 5 heavy neutrons + microwarp + armor repper with less cap means that the ship will run on nothing but cap boosters, and then die very quickly. Even faster if fighting a ship with neutralizers (since the deimos fights at close range).
Keep the ship focused purely on raw damage and close-in combat, with the ability to survive Just long enough for the other guy to blow up.
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Minessis
Strife Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:39:00 -
[133]
other hacs out range the zealot? last i checked my deimos' optimal was 2.5km...
also, last evening, a corp mate and myself we're testing out his new zealot and he was doing impressive dmg from 35-30km...
other hacs out range the zealot? come again?
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:41:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Minessis
other hacs out range the zealot? last i checked my deimos' optimal was 2.5km...
also, last evening, a corp mate and myself we're testing out his new zealot and he was doing impressive dmg from 35-30km...
other hacs out range the zealot? come again?
Ok gallente doesnt have a sniper hac like the other 3 races. You have a unique drone hac instead.
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The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation |
Minessis
Strife Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:41:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Salvis Tallan
Sorry, I fly a deimos and I really do not like these changes. Adding an extra midslot is a good move, but removing a low slot AND expecting people to fit an armor rep is not good. Remove the extra high slot that no one ever uses and let it keep the low slot (I would ask for another lowslot but that might be pushing it). It also needs its cap bonus back. If you do not fit an MWD its just about useless, and now we have to give up 25% cap? 5 heavy neutrons + microwarp + armor repper with less cap means that the ship will run on nothing but cap boosters, and then die very quickly. Even faster if fighting a ship with neutralizers (since the deimos fights at close range).
Keep the ship focused purely on raw damage and close-in combat, with the ability to survive Just long enough for the other guy to blow up.
except that with the medium cap injector the 5 heavy neutrons won't fit and neither will 5 heavy ions... hello low dps electrons and no cap
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Terraisa Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:43:00 -
[136]
I am anxiously awaiting some sort of explanation of the Deimos changes from CCP.
It kinda looks like they want to slow it down and make it tank.
If this is true, the Deimos would be much better served by moving a high to a low (instead of low to mid) and introducing a resist bonus instead of a repping bonus.
High damage, heavy tank; sounds like Gallente to me.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari
VentureCorp
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:46:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Karina Sasieko
Edited by: Karina Sasieko on 02/02/2008 11:49:47
Edited by: Karina Sasieko on 02/02/2008 11:48:46
DEIMOS CHANGE - just don't!!!!
Just after a months when you did boosted the ship and nerfed the nos and made it an attractive platform you are planing to change it's roles totaly?!?!?!?!
DON'T - ship is fine as it is now!!!!!
Removing the low-slot is a madness; now it becomes more agile more expensive version of brutix with lower dps output and lower tank.
What the hell are you guys thinking? Increasing it's defence by dropping the lowslot?
Honestly now a HAM Cerberus will outperform the Deimos in terms of dps and tank (even when dual rep deimos - profanity) - and it can dish the damage out from 130km safe from web, nos, etc.
What do you mean by the current setup needs more defence:
ion rack setup with 1 mar and 800mm plate and CCC rig (with faction gear you can put 2x CCC rigs) is totally cap stable for 3 minutes (with point, web, guns, mar, hardeners on).
You don't need a stupid cap booster on this ship - just the fight span isn't long enough to use it anyway!
Any neutralizing ship will empty the cap anyway, after 3 minutes of 1v1 you kill, die or bail; on bigger fights you have time to regenerate your cap.
Not really a ship to sit under the sentries and burn cap boosters either.
Honestly, either leave it alone or move the useless 6th hi-slot to the med slot.
I really don't like the way those changes are going.
I did not know that a Cerb could launch Hams out to 130km... are these Jav Hams with max skills/implants?
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
Abyss Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 16:47:00 -
[138]
Regarding the Deimos change.
Why on earth are you tinkering with this ship again so soon after the last changes?!?!
I fly it regularly for PVE and PVP with various set ups and configurations.
It is working well and has a very nice cap recharge rate allowing decent pilots to MWD up to their target with plenty of cap remaining to rep well unless under neuts.
SHOCK HORROR - In which case you can always fit a cap booster in one of the 3 mid slots or fit a couple of NOS modules.
It is currently a nice design since it isn't 100% predictable for an enemy to know what setup they will be fighting.
NOT EVERY SHIP NEEDS MID SLOTS FOR MWD, WEB, SCRAM AND CAP BOOSTER. Especially if this costs damage or tanking options.
By changing the bonus you'll also be making it damn annoyingly obvious to the world exactly how this ship will be fit. The mids as above with either 1 or probably 2 reppers.
The optional passive tank is daft now as it wastes the bonus. The damage fit is compromised hard due to the loss of a slot.
All in all, your changes will make a perfectly servicable and adaptable killing machine into a predictable, grinder-style HAC that will be annoying to fly since after every minor engagement you'll be flying home for more bloody charges.
Some things NEED changing - some do not. So why are you frustrating Gallente players AGAIN by tinkering with their ships for no REAL reason?!?!
Thanks to your 'Balancing' changes this game is fast losing its unique PVP OPTIONS and fast becoming a very BORING battle of the tanks.
You might like to fly only one fit of a ship but not everyone else wants to fly that damn cookie-cutter just coz you Dev's like it that way. Think more - change less. Thanks.
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Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:01:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
I did not know that a Cerb could launch Hams out to 130km... are these Jav Hams with max skills/implants?
The funny thing about that is that heavy missile launchers with faction ammo will 1) do more damage, 2) are easier to fit, 3) have more range and 4) allow you to use FOF missiles.
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This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:02:00 -
[140]
I agree the deimos isn't bad at all in it's current TQ version... chosing between web and cap booster seems like a good part of the gameplay (even for a HAC)
Im suddenly starting to really want to ask about more medslots for caldari ships...
-
I'm a nice guy!!
But hook me up with some pew pew, because I'm really bored... |
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Jacob Holland
Gallente
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:06:00 -
[141]
The Apoc changes are something I can definitely get behind, The longer range role means that there is at last a reason to use the Apoc in combat over the cheaper and more effective 'geddon or the more effective and more survivable Abaddon.
I'm glad that there's now a reason to buy one.
The Omen and Zealot changes I can't comment on, but the changes to the Moa (and Eagle) and the Ferox are certainly valuable.
The changes to the Deimos however are counterintuitive, if it's suffering in comparison to other short range HACs then improve it, gimping its ability to tank by removing a lowslot, gimping its ability to tank by reducing its capacitor and then forcing it to fit fitting hungry modules to compensate is not improving it. Either leave it as it is or, if it simply must have that additional midslot then either move the utility highslot (which normally loads at best a small Nos) or simply give it an additional midslot (Minmatar Battlecruisers have an additional highslot in order to make them competative, why not do the same here if it's really needed?).
Personally I'd rather see Dronebay (not bandwidth) changes, Increase the Dronebay on both the Thorax and the Deimos to allow it to carry a flight of ECM and a flight of Damage drones rather than choosing between the two.
--
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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DiaBlo UK
North Siders
Fang Alliance
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:16:00 -
[142]
deimos, losing its cap bonus to mwd and also a lowslot in place of mid...
the changes to the deimos are the beginning of speed nerfs...
you'll see more to come i think...
---sig---nerf---starts---here--- |
Minessis
Strife Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:19:00 -
[143]
noone nanos the deimos
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Oedus Caro
Caldari
Cross Roads
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:19:00 -
[144]
Hey CCP,
First off, most of the changes you have so far are fantastic! My pants seriously cannot wait for the new Zealot to hit Tranquility. However, there are a few things I'd like to suggest:
1. The Omen really does need a bit more fitting if it is to make use of the 5th turret hard-point. Without any cap injectors or armor plates, my existing, focused pulse setup already fits like a glove, and my fitting skills are maxed. The Zealot's grid and CPU output, on the other hand, are fine as they are. The situation is roughly the same for the Moa and the Eagle.
2. The Paladin should, in my view, have its capacitor capacity bonus replaced. Leaving the 5% cap/level bonus in place when the Apocalypse gets that bonus built-in would be exceptionally lame. In effect, the Paladin would be left with only one bonus more than its tech one variant, even though the other Marauders, and indeed all other tech two ships, get two. However, the optimal range bonus on the Apocalypse might be a bit overpowering on the Paladin, so I can't really say what the replacement bonus should be.
3. If the point of changing the Deimos is to make it more durable, I would suggest removing its 6th high-slot instead of a low to compensate for the additional mid.
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Minessis
Strife Mercenaries Inc.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:31:00 -
[145]
why is ccp even fiddling with an unbroken ship?
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Vlip
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:36:00 -
[146]
I'm just going to voice two concerns here for our fellow devs to think about.
With the new apoc bonus artillery's engagement range gets completely disconnected from what the other races can do.
150km optimal is a bit short now compared to what the amars, gallentes and caldaris can do. Maybe a small optimal boost needs to be introduced, nothing drastic. Or you could put the 100% optimal bonus back on tremor...
I'm also worried at the double kick in the nuts the Muninn got recently. The scripts hurt the poor thing a lot and now that the Zealot gets 5 turrets I'm a bit puzzled. The Zealot will outdps, outtank, outspeed and outtrack the Muninn at all engagement ranges...
The Eagle still has the saving grace of being able to engage at twice the range, but the Muninn doesn't have that luxury either.
Just some food for thought.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:52:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Meiyang Lee on 02/02/2008 17:51:50
Originally by: Vlip
I'm also worried at the double kick in the nuts the Muninn got recently. The scripts hurt the poor thing a lot and now that the Zealot gets 5 turrets I'm a bit puzzled. The Zealot will outdps, outtank, outspeed and outtrack the Muninn at all engagement ranges...
The Eagle still has the saving grace of being able to engage at twice the range, but the Muninn doesn't have that luxury either.
Just some food for thought.
May i ask how the Munnin was kicked in the nuts by the introduction of scripts?
The only thing i can think of are those of the tracking computers, but wouldn't you go for tracking over more range anyway if you're fitting artillery?
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Keiko Kobayashi
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:52:00 -
[148]
ô7.5% bonus to armor repair amount per Gallente Cruiser level (replaces the MWD capacitor penalty reduction)ö
I think with that, youĈre hurting the typical role of the Deimos as a member of the Thorax-class cruisers, which is closing in fast with the MWD and hitting Ĉem hard. Without the MWD cap penalty reduction, an MWD is no longer an obvious fitting for the Deimos. IĈm not really happy with that change.
By the way, for my Deimos, cap isnĈt really a problem anymore because I focused on several cap skills and rigs. Instead of the low/mid slot changes, IĈd rather have the 7.5% repper bonus, possibly in exchange for a low slot.
And one thing that IĈd really really like is for the inability to use MWDs in deadspace to be removed. I basically canĈt use my Deimos (and Thorax previously) in the way that is it supposed to be used in PvE at all. Not only does that put my ship in more risk, but it also means having less practice for PvP situations where I should be familiarised with the ship enough to use the MWD to my advantage. Also, I really donĈt like having to switch out my MWD for an AB all the time, and often when I can use an MWD, I forgot to fit it so IĈm still not using it.
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.02.02 17:55:00 -
[149]
Remember that all electronic warfare at present can be countered. For ECM, we have ECCM and projected ECCM. For sensor dampeners, we have sensor boosters and remote sensor boosters. For tracking speed and optimal range disruption, we have tracking computers and tracking enhancers. If you add a falloff modifier to tracking disruption, there will be absolutely no counter to the tracking disruptor for any short-range turret ship.
Furthermore, did we not just "nerf" all EW and active mods that had multiple modifier effects (EG. targeting range + scan resolution, tracking range + tracking speed) by the implementation of scripts? Giving the Amarr a script that would lower both optimal AND falloff would run counter to this trend. Rather than forcing all EW to be situationally useful, you would make the tracking disruptor ultra effective against all snipers and all short range turret boats with the same script.
Zulupark, there is NO compromise in this idea. The only foreseeable thing I can imagine that would make such an incredibly powerful tracking disruption counterable would be a falloff buffing module, but that in and of its own would become a "must-fit" module for every gunship player in Eve, and that's not the kind of module Eve should have.
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Mag's
MASS
Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:01:00 -
[150]
All in all, I rather like the changes.
But the Deimos...... omg what are you guys smoking 
You should leave the MWD bonus as is and remove a top slot, not a low.
All that you've succeeded in doing, is gimping an otherwise good ship.
Now all you need to do, is do away with the ridiculous EM and EXP changes to armour and shields respectively.
Mag's
Originally by: Avernus
One of these days, the realization that MASS is no longer significant will catch up with you. |
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