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DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:00:00 - [61] The fact is that nano ships remove fun from the game. The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs: Oh 20 nano hacs in system X ??? who cares... I will just use a JB to move my ship .... Actually during the last days, we have been fighting on a daily basis other alliances and we are all having FUN. The fact is that they dont use nano stuff, and we dont use them also so, every day several times per day you see fights reaching from 7 vs 7 to 20 vs 20 where you actually fight for long periods of time. Fight nano gangs ???? I dont bother really ... ________________ God is my Wingman
Hardtail Red Dawn Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:10:00 - [62] I just you know, kill em : / a nanos worst enemy is himself. and you really dont need to go out of your way with 10 huggins to kill a gang of them. overheated webs, try em now try em with a ganglinked BC theres all sorts of fun things you can do in this game that arent simply " Wah wah he's moving so quick i cant catch him " god forbid something actually make you think once in a while
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Eclip Originally by: xHalcyonx Originally by: Eclip Its not that a single nanoed ship ie ishtar, cerb, sac, zealot or vaga is speed fit. and by yes they are viable speed fits. It becomes a problem when there are 10 of them. uginn pilots normally arnt scred of a single or even 2 speed fit ships but 10 or so scares then and they become insta primary and no amount of shieled repping can help you when 2500dps comes at you from 10 nano HACS and thats being conservative its more then this in reality. SO if ur counter is bring a huginn or shut up then that doesnt really fix anything since its dead as soon as it decloaks. The best outcome is you pop all their drones and they get all huffy that you arnt trying to kill them and run away. The speeds some speed HACS are reaching speeds intys cannot. Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That makes you a gankbear Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. Thats very true but at the same time CCP would be hessitant to remove or alter snakes since they are so expensive and alot of ppl own then and they would get the "if you do we all quit" threat. I dont know a solution but packs of them are neigh invincible and ahve good damage as well. Since killing 30-50 drones is hard to do b4 a BS pops even with smartbombs from that amount of damage. The solution is simple - stop them from dropping. I don't believe they can be manufactured so that pretty much only leaves what people have plugged into their heads and those will mostly be filtered out over time thanks to pod kills.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:18:00 - [64] I already tried to suggest, but no one payed attention If ccp would change the neutralizer overload form 20% rof bonus to 20% extra range. Then done, no more any fricking reason why anyone should complain about nanoships. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Danari Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:55:00 - [65] When will whiners be gone? Because pvpers will always have that winning edge against you no matter what the current mechanics are The only immutable is that the darwin award candidates will still be crying.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:11:00 - [66] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs OOHHHH NOOOOS.... 40 MACHS ON THE GATE, 100 MACH's in HED-GP, 200 MACH'S SIEGING POS'S in FOUNTAIN. OUR TOWERS CAN'T HANDLE IT!!!!! this guy is hilarious... The only thing "skill" players talk about is how ridiculous you are and your whole LE WHINE BRIGADE of idiots... you can't play, you can't just F1,F2,F3, you get PWND, WTFBBQ'd, have crap FC's, nobody to teach you, nobody to listen to your garbage in game, so you come on here and get like 40 people to back you up because YOU are ALL stuck right now in jita buying the cheapest stuff to fit out your next failwhale BS, which YOU ALL believe should pwn anything smaller than it. Got popped in your raven by a flycatcher and 2 raniss huh? Who's got the km, for that, someone has to have that EF mail showing this guy getting blown up by FRIGATES!!! and now he cries his long sad tears here. PATHETIC!
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:21:00 - [67] I think you upset some TRI pilots. Nano argument in three words: Eve Easy Mode. Next...
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:23:00 - [68] Actually, now that I think about it, I do have a better opinion on the subject. Nano ships strength is two fold - the ability to move fast enough to negate almost all damage, making it the most effective tank in the game (99% resist all is pretty sweet after all) and the ability to disengage the minute things go against them. To attain these two simple yet incredibly powerful goals, they have to give up a few things - DPS and legitimate tank to be specific. The problems I see for this are two fold - first it shows a relative imbalance in game mechanic that attempting to attain excellence in a single field allows you to become exceptional in two. A Drake may have a stupidly powerful tank, but it lacks firepower, tackle, and maneuverability to get it - it is in essence a brick with a bite. There are ships that can be pretty good at both tank and gank but there are few that can tank, gank and tackle and be more than passable at any two of the three goals. The second problem is simply that a non nano ship does not have much of a probability of "winning" the battle. In fact, a non nano-ship that has neither web nor a heavy neut is doomed to at best slowly and painfully lose the battle, unless it has an epic tank (because keep in mind, few ships can perma tank more than a few hundred DPS once cap boosters and whatnot run out). Should a non nano ship have one of these items they have a pretty good chance at surviving, so long as they have the long range versions. If they have both they even have a chance to win the day, but the instant you negate the speed tank of a nano ship they run off (unless they're dumb but let's not count idiocy into the argument just yet). Nano gangs are not the most dangerous fleet that can fly through your space - just the hardest one to counter. The "get a minnie recon" friend line only carries you so far. Every nano ship in the world knows minnie recons are THE single best counter to their speed and thus said nano gang will either run the moment one takes the field or primary it and watch it melt. Sure, other ships can potentially stop a nano gang but let's face it - a nano gang is like a 50's biker gang - they show up, gank the first unsuspecting person they find and are gone 5 minutes later - hardly time to form a defense. While Nano-Gangs can only cause limited damage, it is their ability to dictate the terms of the fight that make them imbalanced in my view. The fact that my choices are to equip specifically FOR nano ships or die to the first one that comes along is irritating to me since equipping for that one potentiality lowers my effectivness at just about everything else. Are Nano Gangs the most pressing problem to be addressed in Eve? Probably not. Most nano ships don't get to invulnerable speeds anyway since the average pilot cannot expend the billions of ISK that it takes to achieve. But Nano Gangs do represent the ability to dictate the time, place and duration of any fight, which is perhaps to great of an edge for a single ship. On the other side of the argument, nano gangs are important in eve to an extent though - they have shanken the mold of 0.0 warfare from the blob based russian roulette into something that gives a small attack force a fighting chance at doing some good. Do nano gangs need to get 10km/s to achieve this? Not really - but in a game where even most battleships can go nearly 1km/s, you have to achieve a truly absurd speed for speed to become an actual advantage. Eve has long been am imbalanced game, and is perhaps the powergamer's single best friend. I don't think it was ever intended for certain ships (such as the sacrilige) to EVER be considered fast, but thanks to plentiful low slots and rigs it can be one of the deadliest nano ships in the game. For all my irritation with nano gangs however, I am working towards my own because I recognize that nano ships are excellent counters for nano ships.
Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:25:00 - [69] The time has come to nerf speed. This is how it begins, and honestly, I can't say I mind. It is a shame that every ship is fit with a nano setup these days.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Hardtail I just you know, kill em : / a nanos worst enemy is himself. and you really dont need to go out of your way with 10 huggins to kill a gang of them. overheated webs, try em now try em with a ganglinked BC theres all sorts of fun things you can do in this game that arent simply " Wah wah he's moving so quick i cant catch him " god forbid something actually make you think once in a while Legitimate argument, but let's face it - when you're being gang raped by 4 nano ships there isn't much "time to think" about a better course of action or to change your fittings or to get a gang linked BC. Of course, that being said 4:1 odds should net you a win even without the speed :P Secondly, the argument that "speed tanking requries more skill and throught that f1-f8" line is getting old. For starters, speed tankers get guns too, just less of them so I'm sure it's F1 - f5 for them, plus the MWD button and then they orbit at just outside web range. Sometime's it looks like the vagas MIGHT be flying manually (you'll see them stop with a zig zag and do a straight approach for a volly then go back to the zig zag) but sacs and cerbs certainly don't seem to be. The "everyone else is using canned fitting lines" is also one of epic failure as well - since the "go really fast" fitting idea has existed for a very long time before it became possible to make larger ships go faster than damage. Everyone else is expected to react to the canned vaga/mach/sac/ishtar fittings (because they don't really vary on anything but how much you spend on mods these days do they?) with crazy ideas and fittings, but let's face it - most people don't fit to fight a nano by default (because it makes them less good at just about everything else in most cases). By the time you get a gang together to respond the threat as come, ganked and moved on. So cut it with the high and mighty attitude that nano fits are somehow "hard" and are somehow "weak" and that everyone else is "stupid". Nano ships let you dictate the terms of the battle. Period. That means that the only way to kill you is for you to be dumb about when, where and how a fight takes place. And that gives you an immense edge over ANYTHING else no matter what you choose to think.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:38:00 - [71] Originally by: Derek Sigres On the other side of the argument, nano gangs are important in eve to an extent though - they have shanken the mold of 0.0 warfare from the blob based russian roulette into something that gives a small attack force a fighting chance at doing some good. Do nano gangs need to get 10km/s to achieve this? Not really - but in a game where even most battleships can go nearly 1km/s, you have to achieve a truly absurd speed for speed to become an actual advantage. Eve has long been am imbalanced game, and is perhaps the powergamer's single best friend. I don't think it was ever intended for certain ships (such as the sacrilige) to EVER be considered fast, but thanks to plentiful low slots and rigs it can be one of the deadliest nano ships in the game. For all my irritation with nano gangs however, I am working towards my own because I recognize that nano ships are excellent counters for nano ships. The magic number is about 3.5-4km/sec, which is easy to attain with quite a few ships without any factions mods or faction implants. While you're not saying it, a lot of times the argument from nano pilots is that nano's cost a lot to setup, which is a myth. They just cost a lot if taken to the extreme.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:46:00 - [72] wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:52:00 - [73] Originally by: Matrixcvd [text vomit] Yeah, you're right. Nano pilots are the elite of the elite. We should all be bowing down to your seperior kill/death ratio's and immensely superior tactical situation awareness... ...And your ability to run away.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:04:00 - [74] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 06/02/2008 15:59:30 Originally by: Matrixcvd [text vomit] Yeah, you're right. Nano pilots are the elite of the elite. We should all be bowing down to your superior kill/death ratio's and immensely superior tactical situation awareness... ...And your ability to run away. the point of the previous post was not to spell out uberleetness it was to disprove the concept, first that its easy, second, that its an IWIN button. There is a ship type for every aspect of this game. Speed fits are good for roaming gangs and some other things. Its not a superior tank, nor tactic. Spead fits are heavily balanced and have proved to be something that everyone can utilize if they so chose, regardless of whether you aspire to fly the vaga. To sit there with a sh1tload of deathmails in your combat log and talk about balance and fairness in EVE PVP is where most people get p1ssed off cause you haven't a clue about nano, about pvp and about eve in general. You just try and dredge up your fellow whiners who also fit your MO.
Aya Otosaki	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:08:00 - [75] speed is plenty ok,speed is needed for tacling. the only thing that is kinda screwed is the tracking formula. ----- Ignorance is my strength.
Odium47	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:25:00 - [76] Hopefully never, Ceyna. Deal with them and stop biatching about it. If it won't nano ship, it will be tank ships, if won't be any tank ships, we will have damage dealers, if not damage dealer, something else... The idea is a moron like you who only pushes F-butons and copy set ups from site or worth uses EFT to fit, will always die and whine about it. If you don't like it, go play something else and leave us alone !
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:28:00 - [77] Originally by: DeadDuck The fact is that nano ships remove fun from the game. The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs: Oh 20 nano hacs in system X ??? who cares... I will just use a JB to move my ship .... Actually during the last days, we have been fighting on a daily basis other alliances and we are all having FUN. The fact is that they dont use nano stuff, and we dont use them also so, every day several times per day you see fights reaching from 7 vs 7 to 20 vs 20 where you actually fight for long periods of time. Fight nano gangs ???? I dont bother really ... Speedfits exist because of the blob, certain individuals love the blob isn't that right?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:29:00 - [78] Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis?
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Matrixcvd the point of the previous post was not to spell out uberleetness it was to disprove the concept, first that its easy, second, that its an IWIN button. There is a ship type for every aspect of this game. Speed fits are good for roaming gangs and some other things. Its not a superior tank, nor tactic You're not disproving anything. You're trying to make it sound like flying speed setups is difficult, or at the very least, more of a challenge than flying other setups. True, there is more information to process on the fly due to the speed you're flying at, but it's a double-edged sword. The speed you're flying at also means that even if you do make a mistake, unless it's a really stupid mistake, you'll still have enough speed/range to correct yourself and continue fighting or make the ever-reliable nano-pilot run and bail. Quote: Spead fits are heavily balanced and have proved to be something that everyone can utilize if they so chose, regardless of whether you aspire to fly the vaga. Heh. If by 'Heavily balanced' you mean 'in your favour' then yeah. And yes, anyone can fly nano... But last I checked this is Eve Online, not Nano's Online. Suggesting that everyone else should fly nano in order to compete is silly. Quote: To sit there with a sh1tload of deathmails in your combat log and talk about balance and fairness in EVE PVP is where most people get p1ssed off cause you haven't a clue about nano, about pvp and about eve in general. You just try and dredge up your fellow whiners who also fit your MO. Reducing an argument to attacks on a players ability and playing the ever reliable Eve-O 'whiner' card doesn't make you any less wrong. Just take a look at... Oh... I don't know... TRI's killboard. One might argue that their high kill/death ratio is due to sheer excess of pilot skill. But my money is on the fact that they rely heavily (as does my own corp) on nano-gangs to get those high kill-death ratios because they know that speed tanks give you the power to pick and choose your fights and to get the hell out if the scanner shows anything remotely likely to kill you. Name me any other form of PvP combat where you can just up and leave the battlefield if it's not going your way. Short of a well FCed E-War heavy gang, any other form of PvP combat involves pilots committing to the battle. Once you choose to stick around and fight, you're pretty much stuck their until one party or the other dies or has taken heavy casualties. This simply isn't the case with speed setups, and therein lies the problem. The ability to dictate every battle and leave when it's not to your liking increases your survival chances monumentally, negating a huge portion of risk associated with PvP and resulting in over-inflated kill/death ratio's and an army of nano-pilots who have convinced themselves that they're some sort of special breed and that the game mechanics are just fine.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:46:00 - [80] Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 06/02/2008 16:52:21 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis? Shall we do a comparison of how many nano-setups die daily compared to non-nano setups? Or would the resulting skew in numbers just be because all the skilled pilots fly nano and all the incompetent pilots fly non-nano? Yeah that must be it. Game mechanics are just fine.
Jarvin Kell Kingdom of Kador	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:04:00 - [81] Originally by: Wet Ferret Edited by: Wet Ferret on 06/02/2008 02:30:34 Originally by: xHalcyonx It is _very_ easy to kill a nano ship. Why use a sledge(nerf)hammer when a scalpel(friends/counters) does the job just fine? Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? Nerf interceptors
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:06:00 - [82] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz True, there is more information to process on the fly due to the speed you're flying at thank you for aggreeing, my point, IWIN. Originally by: Polly Prissypantz The speed you're flying at also means that even if you do make a mistake, unless it's a really stupid mistake... Really dumb statement. You dont make a mistake and pull up your pants and run to the bathroom with a little wet spot on your clothes. You make a mistake in these ships and its podjuice everywhere. There are no "really stupid mistakes". It's either you kill, or you f-up and die, or you get away in which its called a draw. Draws happen from time to time, thats what the OTHER COLUMN IS FOR! Originally by: Polly Prissypantz The ability to dictate every battle and leave when it's not to your liking increases your survival chances monumentally This is the definition of a good soldier, good commander. This is a combat sim with internet spaceships. If you don't do this you die. You act like its a bad thing, or something thats unfair and cheap. OH NOOS BILLY PUNCHED A LITTLE FAT KID... OHHH NOOS.... OH NOOS... THAT SKINNY FAST KID KICKED BILLY IN THE JUNK AND THEN RAN AROUND HIM AND FLYING KICKED HIM... OHH NOOS... You either bully with force/blob or you fight with speed or through other means... you just don't get it. Originally by: Polly Prissypantz any other form of PvP combat involves pilots committing to the battle. Once you choose to stick around and fight, you're pretty much stuck their until one party or the other dies or has taken heavy casualties. You would have been the greatest general in the 18th century. Lets stack our forces and slug each other till the one with more soliders win. Ok Redcoat, let me get my guerilla americans and hide in the bushes for you to come by, OH NOOOS WE DON'T FIGHT FAIR!!!!! All of your statements are crap. Predicated on the fact that you want fair fights, you want there to be a battlezone where people can't escape and for you to march over to them and slug it out with. You have no idea how this game works and have proved my point far more than i could ever. This game is about convincing the other pilots to fight, when you know that they are already dead. Not by jumping thru a gate and announcing. "I THE VALIANT AND FAIR COMMANDER COMMIT THEE TO A DUEL AND YOU MUST HONOR THAT DUEL, AND YOU MUST BE OF SAID HONOR AND VALOR OR I CALL SHENNANIGANS!!" GB2WoW
Camulos Redne Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:53:00 - [83] shield tanked curse with 3 neutralizers and recon 5. I use to have an uba sig. Then it got wtfpwned!
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:58:00 - [84] Originally by: Matrixcvd wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly 1. The one legitimate thing nano ships are doing that no one else does 2. Everyone but passive shield tankers watch their cap, and even passive ships do it to an extent 3. Watching overview for distance to targets and paying attention to my tactical overlay ensures I maintain optimal range myself 4. Watching my damage output is important so I can tell if I'm breaking a tank or not and judge the progress of the battle 5. I watch my drone hp as does everyone else with a drone in the air if they're smart 6. I watch the tacklers same as anybody relying on another player to tackle does 7. Calling the right targets is important in any fleet How about: 1. Prioritizing weapons to appropiate targets (e.g the warriors to the fastest ships, precision missiles for smaller targets etc) Pretty sure everyone does this but it didn't make the speed list 2. Maneuvering to maintain optimal ranges in relation to enemy and friendly forces. Speed adds only arguably the need to watch your movement relative to targets, and when you speed gets high enough your margin of error here is pretty wide (e.g. >30degree off direct approach can keep a crow infront of the transversal of most guns)
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:16:00 - [85] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis? Oh, but the fact they die is not proof they're not invunerable. Oh, wait... Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:17:00 - [86] Originally by: Matrixcvd wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly D - Thread Response System A - Unnecessary whine. Please Adapt. B - Some or all of your opinions are incorrect. C - Thread already exists. D - You are correct.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:41:00 - [87] Nano ships are boring, thats the bottom line. They are boring to fly, the are boring to fight, and the fights are rarely close. Do they need some changes? Yes. Are they effective, yes. Are they difficult to fly? As much as any other ship. Its not a debate - nano ships will be nurfed, and I am looking forward to it because I am sick and tired of seeing and flying the same cruisers all the time. but thats my opinion. -----------
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:11:00 - [88] Originally by: Matrixcvd wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly That would be correct if most engagements weren't so 1-sided it's just a matter of the nano's target waiting to run out of cap. Also - I love it when people say 'your and idiot' and don't actually mean it ironically
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Lorz0r Also - I love it when people say 'your and idiot' and don't actually mean it ironically Haha, pwnt. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:15:00 - [90] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Lorz0r Also - I love it when people say 'your and idiot' and don't actually mean it ironically Haha, pwnt. lol i pwnt myself but that was a typo and not misunderstanding of english grammar! or something

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