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So when are nano's gone?

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Ceyna Lakise	Posted - 2008.02.06 01:59:00 - [1] Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs, vagas, ishtars, cerberus, and you can't even bother chasing them unless your the same fitting or a inty. So yeah, they give up a lot on the tank to do it, but if you can't catch them what's the point? 90% your not gonna always have the perfect gang setup or ship around that can long range web the buggers. Honestly, just throw out nanos and take it back to that whole skill thing everyone is talking about...
xHalcyonx Amarr Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:09:00 - [2] The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. That being said, you can invest in 13km and 15km webbers and overload them to catch the enemy. Heavy neutralizers. Insta-capdeath to anything save the Mach. Bring a Minmatar recon pilot friend with you roaming. Dead anything nano. Stop whining, it's getting to the point where I don't even bother reading the idiotic posts in EvE-O forums. SHC is much more productive. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Hemroid Diddller Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:13:00 - [3] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs, vagas, ishtars, cerberus, and you can't even bother chasing them unless your the same fitting or a inty. So yeah, they give up a lot on the tank to do it, but if you can't catch them what's the point? 90% your not gonna always have the perfect gang setup or ship around that can long range web the buggers. Honestly, just throw out nanos and take it back to that whole skill thing everyone is talking about... Wow honestly. I love how poepl without even tryin to think like a normal human istantly decide instead that w/e is bothering is overpowered and needs to be nerfed/removed. The person above me posted a few suggestions. Anither one would be to delete your character because your that bad at using common sense and whine too much
Ekuwy Oizoa Anthrax Foundation	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:15:00 - [4] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs Erm. W T F
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Organized Combat Consortium Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:19:00 - [5] Originally by: xHalcyonx The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. That being said, you can invest in 13km and 15km webbers and overload them to catch the enemy. Heavy neutralizers. Insta-capdeath to anything save the Mach. Bring a Minmatar recon pilot friend with you roaming. Dead anything nano. Stop whining, it's getting to the point where I don't even bother reading the idiotic posts in EvE-O forums. SHC is much more productive. You forgot "omg nano ships have no dps though!". God I hate people like you.
heheheh Red.	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:19:00 - [6] Give me one good reason why a specialist speed ship should be able to get caught by every other ship.
Hemroid Diddller Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Originally by: xHalcyonx The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. That being said, you can invest in 13km and 15km webbers and overload them to catch the enemy. Heavy neutralizers. Insta-capdeath to anything save the Mach. Bring a Minmatar recon pilot friend with you roaming. Dead anything nano. Stop whining, it's getting to the point where I don't even bother reading the idiotic posts in EvE-O forums. SHC is much more productive. You forgot "omg nano ships have no dps though!". God I hate people like you. Just because your not good at flying/fitting nano ships are arent smart enough to think outside the box to catch/destroy them doesnt mean you get to be angry at the people who enjoy using them.
xHalcyonx Amarr Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:23:00 - [8] Edited by: xHalcyonx on 06/02/2008 02:24:25 Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Originally by: xHalcyonx The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. That being said, you can invest in 13km and 15km webbers and overload them to catch the enemy. Heavy neutralizers. Insta-capdeath to anything save the Mach. Bring a Minmatar recon pilot friend with you roaming. Dead anything nano. Stop whining, it's getting to the point where I don't even bother reading the idiotic posts in EvE-O forums. SHC is much more productive. You forgot "omg nano ships have no dps though!". God I hate people like you. Depends on the ship, also explain why you hate people like me. I used to fly nano, got bored of it, now I have a Huginn(nano), Rapier(nano), Zealot(gank), Sac(tank), and soon to be Absolution and Sleipnir (Both tanked). The last time I took my Huginn out was like 1.5 months ago. Rapier I use for gate running. It is _very_ easy to kill a nano ship. Why use a sledge(nerf)hammer when a scalpel(friends/counters) does the job just fine? ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 02:28:28 Its not that a single nanoed ship ie ishtar, cerb, sac, zealot or vaga is overpowered. Yes they are viable speed fits and good at it. It becomes a problem when there are 10 of them. Huginn/Rapier pilots normally arnt scred of a single or even 2 speed fit ships but 10 or so scares then and they become insta primary and no amount of shieled repping can help you when 2500dps comes at you from 10 nano HACS and thats being conservative its more then this in reality. How does a nanotar have o DPS?? if ur in anythig smaller then a BS by the time u target and kill his drones ur either popped or on ur way. SO if ur counter is bring a huginn or "think outside the box" then that doesnt really fix anything since a minni recon is dead as soon as it decloaks. The best outcome is you pop all their drones and they get all huffy that you arn't trying to kill them and run away. Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That just makes you a gankbear. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
xHalcyonx Amarr Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Eclip Its not that a single nanoed ship ie ishtar, cerb, sac, zealot or vaga is speed fit. and by yes they are viable speed fits. It becomes a problem when there are 10 of them. uginn pilots normally arnt scred of a single or even 2 speed fit ships but 10 or so scares then and they become insta primary and no amount of shieled repping can help you when 2500dps comes at you from 10 nano HACS and thats being conservative its more then this in reality. SO if ur counter is bring a huginn or shut up then that doesnt really fix anything since its dead as soon as it decloaks. The best outcome is you pop all their drones and they get all huffy that you arnt trying to kill them and run away. The speeds some speed HACS are reaching speeds intys cannot. Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That makes you a gankbear Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. ------------------- ნỊs uʍop əpỊsdn Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:29:00 - [11] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 06/02/2008 02:30:34 Originally by: xHalcyonx It is _very_ easy to kill a nano ship. Why use a sledge(nerf)hammer when a scalpel(friends/counters) does the job just fine? Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? It's not rocket science. (warp stabbed ships were even easier to counter than nanoships)
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:31:00 - [12] Originally by: xHalcyonx Originally by: Eclip Its not that a single nanoed ship ie ishtar, cerb, sac, zealot or vaga is speed fit. and by yes they are viable speed fits. It becomes a problem when there are 10 of them. uginn pilots normally arnt scred of a single or even 2 speed fit ships but 10 or so scares then and they become insta primary and no amount of shieled repping can help you when 2500dps comes at you from 10 nano HACS and thats being conservative its more then this in reality. SO if ur counter is bring a huginn or shut up then that doesnt really fix anything since its dead as soon as it decloaks. The best outcome is you pop all their drones and they get all huffy that you arnt trying to kill them and run away. The speeds some speed HACS are reaching speeds intys cannot. Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That makes you a gankbear Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. Thats very true but at the same time CCP would be hessitant to remove or alter snakes since they are so expensive and alot of ppl own then and they would get the "if you do we all quit" threat. I dont know a solution but packs of them are neigh invincible and ahve good damage as well. Since killing 30-50 drones is hard to do b4 a BS pops even with smartbombs from that amount of damage. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Maldad Asesino	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Eclip Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 02:28:28 Its not that a single nanoed ship ie ishtar, cerb, sac, zealot or vaga is overpowered. Yes they are viable speed fits and good at it. It becomes a problem when there are 10 of them. Huginn/Rapier pilots normally arnt scred of a single or even 2 speed fit ships but 10 or so scares then and they become insta primary and no amount of shieled repping can help you when 2500dps comes at you from 10 nano HACS and thats being conservative its more then this in reality. How does a nanotar have o DPS?? if ur in anythig smaller then a BS by the time u target and kill his drones ur either popped or on ur way. SO if ur counter is bring a huginn or "think outside the box" then that doesnt really fix anything since a minni recon is dead as soon as it decloaks. The best outcome is you pop all their drones and they get all huffy that you arn't trying to kill them and run away. Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That just makes you a gankbear. I've heard remote reppers work pretty good if you have an essential ship in gang which needs to be protected.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:37:00 - [14] Originally by: Eclip Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That just makes you a gankbear. Guys, we brought the perfect counter to your ships. Come on, guys. Why don't you go ahead and suicide your gang into ours and die? Guys?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:38:00 - [15] Edited by: Wet Ferret on 06/02/2008 02:39:38 Quote: they are so expensive and alot of ppl own then I WONDER WHY? Oh, that's right. It's because they're so easy to kill and counter that everyone and their dog is dying to fork out billions to use them. lulz
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Wet Ferret Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? In other words, guerilla and skirmish warfare has no place in Eve? And why not?
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:54:00 - [17] "no amount of shieled repping" is my post if u can get in lock a hugin with ur basilisk and rep him for 2500-4000dps then i need to get ur setup. its almost impossible and if the huginn isnt insta primary then the remote reppers are. The 10 huginns was an example of the perfect counter. Rarely you will get 1 even 2 huginn pilots willing to jump into an engagement like that. Simply for the fact that they know they will die within seconds. Even when a gang of similar amount of ships jumps into teh nano gang they run. even numbers more or less 10 one side 12 the other and they scream blob. combat has changed for the worse in eve and its not lookign to get nay better anytime soon. I was flying speed fits b4 the advent of rigs in T1 cruisers and doing well i would engage 2-3 cruisers at a time with little doubt they would all die. This mentality of being un-touchable shouldnt exist in a game. Lie i said i dont know a solution but CCP have said they are looking at speed fit ships again in theri dev blogs so nano pilots start testing out soem otehr fits coz its gonna hurt. they never intended for HACs other then vagas to be fast. so anyone other then vaga piltos are gonna get the blunt end of the stick when they do soemthing. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Spike Hammer ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:54:00 - [18] Not saying it shouldnt exsist just not as powerful as it is now.
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:56:00 - [19] Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 02:56:10 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Wet Ferret Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? In other words, guerilla and skirmish warfare has no place in Eve? And why not? Oh it does but guerilla warefare is about ambushing not being fast. killing a ship is quick ambushing them takes paitence. Skirmish warfare doesnt exist its either a battle or its not. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.02.06 02:57:00 - [20] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Wet Ferret Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? In other words, guerilla and skirmish warfare has no place in Eve? And why not? I don't know. I wasn't the one who decided to nerf WCS.
Sauromugue	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:01:00 - [21] The people who whine about nanos are the same people who play Paladin in WoW, tbqmfh.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:04:00 - [22] Originally by: Wet Ferret Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Wet Ferret Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? In other words, guerilla and skirmish warfare has no place in Eve? And why not? I don't know. I wasn't the one who decided to nerf WCS. You seem to be the one who makes up bad analogies.
Parfait M North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:06:00 - [23] Edited by: Parfait M on 06/02/2008 03:06:57 One of these days Ceyna, pow right in the kissa! But **, I wish everyone flew nano-machs in 0.0 ------- Drink apple juice; OJ will KILL YOU**!
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:14:00 - [24] Originally by: Spike Hammer Not saying it shouldnt exsist just not as powerful as it is now. The only reason it is at all powerful (when it is) is because the people who tend to do it tend to be quite good at it, and the people who tend to whine on the forums about it tend to be really lousy at countering it. Speed is like cloaking and EWar. That is, when it succeeds, it succeeds spectacularly, and when it fails, it fails spectacularly. It's one or the other. But the people who are victims of it (and only see the part when it succeeds) and refuse to use their brains to come up with tactics against it, come on the forums and whine for "nerfing" instead until no one flies anything but battleships and capitals and it's all about pure tank and dps.
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Eclip "no amount of shieled repping" is my post if u can get in lock a hugin with ur basilisk and rep him for 2500-4000dps then i need to get ur setup. its almost impossible and if the huginn isnt insta primary then the remote reppers are. The 10 huginns was an example of the perfect counter. Rarely you will get 1 even 2 huginn pilots willing to jump into an engagement like that. Simply for the fact that they know they will die within seconds. 10 huginns is a horrible counter. Seriously, **** like this is why you people die to nanos. Get 2-3 huginns. A handful of logistics ships. Fit heavy neuts on your BS. Make sure you have a couple inties with webs. Primary whatever the huginns and BS lock down. Whatever they primary, remote rep.
Clinically Gallente Cold-Fury Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:27:00 - [26] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs Gief free 0.0 nano-mach now! ________________ Welcome to EvE Online Forums, would you like to: [ ] Whine about ganking [ ] Complain about updates [ ] Post an anti-nerf petition [X] Remove your operating system
VJ Maverick Caldari R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Eclip Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 02:56:10 Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Wet Ferret Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? In other words, guerilla and skirmish warfare has no place in Eve? And why not? Oh it does but guerilla warefare is about ambushing not being fast. killing a ship is quick ambushing them takes paitence. Skirmish warfare doesnt exist its either a battle or its not. As long as EvE PvP centers around gate-blobs and abusing local chat, there will never ever be anything even remotely deserving of the term "ambush." Telling your girlfriend that you play EvE is like telling her about your herpes. Timing is everything.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:31:00 - [28] Originally by: VJ Maverick As long as EvE PvP centers around gate-blobs and abusing local chat, there will never ever be anything even remotely deserving of the term "ambush." RA capital hot drops!!!!
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:33:00 - [29] hehe 10 nano ships ur BS's dies in about 15 seconds then no remote reps and the alpha ont eh gunsa dn drones of the 10 nano ships fry ur huginns. heavy neuts do nothing when the nano ships sit at 28km laughting at you. and you would need like 5-6 logistics ships to keep a huginn alive with shield reps (4 reps on each basilisk). They are what like 390shield every 5 seconds for large reps thats like what 75-80 shield a second OMG not 300 sield a second form a basilisk. thats only like 550 dps tanked on a huginn to nano ships on average resist. so for 2500-3000dps which is conservative (avg 250-300dps per ship, ishtars are more like 430) you need 5-6 logistics for one huginn to live. Lets get realy u cant find 1-2 logistics piltos that fly them and know what there doing let alone 5-6. hm gang size for 3 huginns and 6 basilisks is 9 OMG so for 10 vs ur 9 u got the crappy dps of 3 huginns. yeah really almost even fight right there. Anymore ships and the speed ships run. think b4 posting. change the basilisks for BS's with remote shield transfers then. hm need 10-12 BS's now and gang size went to 13-15 which nano ships would maybe disengage and run depending on how ballzy they are. Either way there is no way that ur gang if jumping through a gate will be close enough to a huginn to rep it range on reps is 8400m on a BS. That being said yes on paper a huginn is the coutner but it aint practially that usefull in a secinaro of more then 6 enemy speed ships. Even if you ahve mroe numbers you will still take heavy losses and you wont kill any or very few. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:40:00 - [30] As long as EvE PvP centers around gate-blobs and abusing local chat, there will never ever be anything even remotely deserving of the term "ambush." how do u think teh first few suer caps got killed with ambushes b4 the advent of Hic's. ambushing still exists but its dying as the nano crazy sweeps over eve. we killed a raven that was nannoed up. I mean seriously what are some ppl thinking when they fit their ships. OMG nanos are "win" quick lets fit a BS for speed now.... safe to say he died after 2 vollys. I dont know what a fix is i used to fly nano and it was slightly better even tho having a rubish tank but it realy wasnt fair. The snakes plus rigs are broken, ccp know this and they are trying to fix it wthout breaking other things. Hell remove rigs altogether i think they actually hurt the game alot. Then speed ships designed to be fast will be and others will not be. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:44:00 - [31] Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships you stupid****got. HAHA i would like to see ur 10 blackbirds 10 intys kill 10 vagas their drones would pop 2 - 3 of ur blackbirds when they uncloaked and noob skills in blackbirds suck for jamming. Get outta ur nano ship and try to fight some. Overheated neuts go to 26-27 omg their at 28-30km gl with that and ur overheated webs go to 13km. h 28-13 = omg 15km which is more then ur webs reach by 2 times. the guns dps of a vaga sucks it gets more damage from drones. plus when u are doing ur 2 and 3 damage per missile the vaga is killig you with its pathetic gun dps. so you fail. missile ships dont kill nano ships till they stop period. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Eclip HAHA i would like to see ur 10 blackbirds 10 intys kill 10 vagas their drones would pop 2 - 3 of ur blackbirds when they uncloaked and noob skills in blackbirds suck for jamming. Get outta ur nano ship and try to fight some. Overheated neuts go to 26-27 omg their at 28-30km gl with that and ur overheated webs go to 13km. hm 28-13 = omg 15km which is more then ur webs reach by 2 times. The gun dps of a vaga sucks it gets more damage from drones. Yes 5 hobgoblins, thats some omgwtfimba dps right there. No vaga pilot orbits at 30km, because he'd be outdpsed by a crow at that range. Quote: plus when u are doing ur 2 and 3 damage per missile the vaga is killig you with its pathetic gun dps. so you fail. missile ships dont kill nano ships till they stop period. The same mythical vaga that orbits at 30km deals like 20 dps from guns.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Military Industrial Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:54:00 - [33] Originally by: Eclip hehe 10 nano ships ur BS's dies in about 15 seconds Would you do any better against 10 battleships fitted for even a minor fraction of the cost of those fast ships?
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 03:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Eclip how do u think teh first few suer caps got killed with ambushes b4 the advent of Hic's. ambushing still exists but its dying as the nano crazy sweeps over eve. we killed a raven that was nannoed up. I mean seriously what are some ppl thinking when they fit their ships. OMG nanos are "win" quick lets fit a BS for speed now.... safe to say he died after 2 vollys. I dont know what a fix is i used to fly nano and it was slightly better even tho having a rubish tank but it realy wasnt fair. The snakes plus rigs are broken, ccp know this and they are trying to fix it wthout breaking other things. Hell remove rigs altogether i think they actually hurt the game alot. Then speed ships designed to be fast will be and others will not be. So you think carrier hotdropping is a better game mechanic than nanoships? Do you even pvp at all or just pretend to?
Kruel Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:03:00 - [35] God not another one of these threads zomg gank is overpowered! zomg tank is overpowered! zomg speed is overpowered! zomg the contents of my pants are overpowered!
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:08:00 - [36] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Eclip how do u think teh first few suer caps got killed with ambushes b4 the advent of Hic's. ambushing still exists but its dying as the nano crazy sweeps over eve. we killed a raven that was nannoed up. I mean seriously what are some ppl thinking when they fit their ships. OMG nanos are "win" quick lets fit a BS for speed now.... safe to say he died after 2 vollys. I dont know what a fix is i used to fly nano and it was slightly better even tho having a rubish tank but it realy wasnt fair. The snakes plus rigs are broken, ccp know this and they are trying to fix it wthout breaking other things. Hell remove rigs altogether i think they actually hurt the game alot. Then speed ships designed to be fast will be and others will not be. So you think carrier hotdropping is a better game mechanic than nanoships? Do you even pvp at all or just pretend to? This coming form a TRI guy that is only nano. haha Tri will die when they nerf nanos and it will be funny i will laught. Well 5 hob 2's form 10 vags is over 1000dps right there and blackbirds are paper.... Hot dropping sucks but its blobs online remeber -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:10:00 - [37] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: Eclip HAHA i would like to see ur 10 blackbirds 10 intys kill 10 vagas their drones would pop 2 - 3 of ur blackbirds when they uncloaked and noob skills in blackbirds suck for jamming. Get outta ur nano ship and try to fight some. Overheated neuts go to 26-27 omg their at 28-30km gl with that and ur overheated webs go to 13km. hm 28-13 = omg 15km which is more then ur webs reach by 2 times. The gun dps of a vaga sucks it gets more damage from drones. Yes 5 hobgoblins, thats some omgwtfimba dps right there. No vaga pilot orbits at 30km, because he'd be outdpsed by a crow at that range. Quote: plus when u are doing ur 2 and 3 damage per missile the vaga is killig you with its pathetic gun dps. so you fail. missile ships dont kill nano ships till they stop period. The same mythical vaga that orbits at 30km deals like 20 dps from guns. wel fighting nano vs nano you actually come closer in a vaga since they dont got webs and even if they do the web means nothing due ot teh speed ur going -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:12:00 - [38] Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Eclip hehe 10 nano ships ur BS's dies in about 15 seconds Would you do any better against 10 battleships fitted for even a minor fraction of the cost of those fast ships? well 10 BS's would be a welcomed change. see how the Triumverent guys join in teh nano threads they dont want there EPEEN destroyed and nerfed to hell and back -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
Eclip SUBLIME L.L.C.	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Kruel God not another one of these threads zomg gank is overpowered! zomg tank is overpowered! zomg speed is overpowered! zomg the contents of my pants are overpowered! yeha anotehr of these thrads theya re gettin boring there are 2 sides the oens that fight the nanos that get annoyed when good tactics at catching nanos ie neuts, huginns + missiles, medium guns faction webs etc get used the nano ships still cant be caught. Im nto talking a couple of nano ships but gangs of 10 and 15. hell i love small scale 2-5 gang fights they are some of the best i have had in eve. I am thinking of going abck to nano ships since i really only have to spend isk once and rarely ever die. -------------------------------------------------- It is not what u are underneath, but what you do that defines you
GusHobbleton Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.06 04:45:00 - [40] Originally by: Eclip Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 04:19:48 Originally by: Kruel WORDS Or you could wait until the patch and fit arbitrators with tracking disruptors. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:03:00 - [41] Originally by: Eclip Originally by: Kruel God not another one of these threads zomg gank is overpowered! zomg tank is overpowered! zomg speed is overpowered! zomg the contents of my pants are overpowered! yeha anotehr of these thrads theya re gettin boring there are 2 sides the oens that fight the nanos that get annoyed when good tactics at catching nanos ie neuts, huginns + missiles, medium guns faction webs etc get used the nano ships still cant be caught. Im nto talking a couple of nano ships but gangs of 10 and 15. hell i love small scale 2-5 gang fights they are some of the best i have had in eve. I am thinking of going abck to nano ships since i really only have to spend isk once and rarely ever die. You are a terrible failposter. Seriously, people have suggested so many counters for you, but you've decided you can't be bothered to use any of them. Just because you don't want to use what's available, doesn't mean it isn't out there. If a nano ship is orbiting you at 30km, I would highly suggest you just warp off, because more than likely he's only fitting a T2 scram. The biggest, and most important, difference between a nano gang and a regular one is you can't just throw numbers at a nano gang and expect to win, you actually have to think. Which is probably a good thing considering everyone is trying to nerf Eve into a button-mashing F1-F8 tank and gank game.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:11:00 - [42] Speed fits aren't the problem One size fits all modules are the problem with webs being in the holy trinity of mods to fit mwd,scram,web. Every one has a web so every one gets stuck. Nerf webs to sizes and maybe speed fits wont be so important anymore
Niffetin Gallente Omni Research	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:15:00 - [43] Originally by: xHalcyonx The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. That being said, you can invest in 13km and 15km webbers and overload them to catch the enemy. Heavy neutralizers. Insta-capdeath to anything save the Mach. Bring a Minmatar recon pilot friend with you roaming. Dead anything nano. Stop whining, it's getting to the point where I don't even bother reading the idiotic posts in EvE-O forums. SHC is much more productive. This man is right. Seriously. --- Teeheee! mematar's Video Archive
Cpt Cosmic	Posted - 2008.02.06 05:45:00 - [44] you probably never met a good spider tanking gang. gather some friends, fit your battleships with plates and remote reps, spider tank the nanos till dt.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 08:34:00 - [45] Originally by: Eclip This coming form a TRI guy that is only nano. haha Tri will die when they nerf nanos and it will be funny i will laught. Ya we only do nano gangs. Quote: Well 5 hob 2's form 10 vags is over 1000dps right there and blackbirds are paper.... And all these hobgoblins are going to magically focus fire one blackbird because...? Quote: Hot dropping sucks but its blobs online remeber You were just praising carrier hotdropping as the height of ingenuity a couple of posts up. Now it sucks? You flipflop more than politicians.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 08:35:00 - [46] Edited by: Gamesguy on 06/02/2008 08:36:55 Originally by: Eclip wel fighting nano vs nano you actually come closer in a vaga since they dont got webs and even if they do the web means nothing due ot teh speed ur going In nano vs nano if a vaga comes within 18km of my nano-sacriledge its a dead vaga. Or any other nanoship really. You really have no clue about pvp do you? Quote: well 10 BS's would be a welcomed change. see how the Triumverent guys join in teh nano threads they dont want there EPEEN destroyed and nerfed to hell and back So you'd rather have a RR BS blob than nanos? RR bs, btw, often do not "commite" to fights. Its called deaggression(rr doesnt cause aggression).
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 08:59:00 - [47] For the nth time. Get an APOC, fit 8 HEavy Neuts lot of recharge and escort whoever you want in a 25 km sphere of nano negation. If you cannot adapt dont whine. Whines are reserved for things where adaptation is not possible (very few) ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
SKINK0428	Posted - 2008.02.06 09:01:00 - [48] We have no problems killing the nanos in 0.0 were we reside at the moment and never see more than 3 together, We just make sure we have enough long range fast web ships in our gang! The nanos die every time very quickly. Whats all the whinning for I dnt think nanos are overpowered at all you just need the right ships in your gang and you will be fine! Id like to know if anyone has ever seen a gang of 10+ nanos, the problem we have is gangs of rapiers and huggins going around down here?
Neon Genesis Blue.	Posted - 2008.02.06 09:10:00 - [49] Edited by: Neon Genesis on 06/02/2008 09:10:35 I completely refuse to use neutralisers, webs, overheating, minmatar recons, minmatar electronic attack ships, or anything that has a dps below 1000. Wahhhhhh. _
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:09:00 - [50] Originally by: Neon Genesis I completely refuse to use neutralisers, webs, overheating, minmatar recons, minmatar electronic attack ships, gang mods, Amarr recons, tacklers, EWAR or anything that has a dps below 1000. Wahhhhhh. Added a few things Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ceyna Lakise	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:25:00 - [51] Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships you stupid****got. Your an idiot... If a mach doing 8km/s hits my web, it'll be like hitting a puddle going down the freeway, you slow for a sec then keep going. And last time we tried ECMing the damned thing they blew up the Rook jamming it :P There needs to be a serious readjustment to the whole speed fittings. Just throwing "More ships at it" doesn't work, think before you post troll. This is supposed a varied warfare aspect game so why should we get pigeon holed by a setup that outdoes just about every other? Troll fail...
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:29:00 - [52] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 10:31:08 Originally by: Ceyna Lakise And last time we tried ECMing the damned thing they blew up the Rook jamming it :P OMG, your Rook cannot permajam one BS? And saying webs aren't useful is just lol. Fail post is fail. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Ceyna Lakise	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:31:00 - [53] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: Ceyna Lakise And last time we tried ECMing the damned thing they blew up the Rook jamming it :P OMG, your Rook cannot permajam one BS? Not with a nano-cerb shoved up his a**. So got anything useful to say then?
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 10:34:00 - [54] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 10:34:48 Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Not with a nano-cerb shoved up his a**. So got anything useful to say then? Well, their gang is better then your gang then. Also, what's the problem in killing a nano-Cerb? Also, have someone in your corp train leadership skills. Yes, it means you'll reach 'all L5' EFT DPS later, but guess what, the leadership skill tree will greatly improve your chances against nano-ships (well, and everything else in addition). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
JaxxFunk Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:04:00 - [55] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships you stupid***got. Your an idiot... If a mach doing 8km/s hits my web, it'll be like hitting a puddle going down the freeway, you slow for a sec then keep going. And last time we tried ECMing the damned thing they blew up the Rook jamming it :P There needs to be a serious readjustment to the whole speed fittings. Just throwing "More ships at it" doesn't work, think before you post troll. This is supposed a varied warfare aspect game so why should we get pigeon holed by a setup that outdoes just about every other? Troll fail... No, you're an idiot. Last time I looked, Machs were about 800 mil. If a Mach is doing 8km/s then he has a full set of snakes and faction MWD, nano's and overdrives. This makes the total cost of his setup well in excess of 2bil. IMHO that alone should make his ship EXTREMELY difficult to catch and kill as it's comparible to the cost of a well fitted carrier or dread. You aint seen me...right*
PhoenixDawn Gallente Forge Regional Security	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:30:00 - [56] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs, vagas, ishtars, cerberus, and you can't even bother chasing them unless your the same fitting or a inty. So yeah, they give up a lot on the tank to do it, but if you can't catch them what's the point? 90% your not gonna always have the perfect gang setup or ship around that can long range web the buggers. Honestly, just throw out nanos and take it back to that whole skill thing everyone is talking about... This guy's got a point. Ever since Exodus and the elimination of stacked AB/MWD boats CCP has introduced a nerf to speed with *every single major content patch*. If that does not say 'there's a major flaw with speed' then nothing else does. Nano's don't need to be 'gone', but the stacking penalties on multiple speed mods needs to be adjusted a little higher. Not so high as to eliminate the advantage speed boats have (re: Minmatar), but enough that they're not the end-all be-all of PvP as they are now. Or everyone just needs to be running around with Rapier/Hyena gangs... they'll never be challenged by anything.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:46:00 - [57] Originally by: PhoenixDawn Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs, vagas, ishtars, cerberus, and you can't even bother chasing them unless your the same fitting or a inty. So yeah, they give up a lot on the tank to do it, but if you can't catch them what's the point? 90% your not gonna always have the perfect gang setup or ship around that can long range web the buggers. Honestly, just throw out nanos and take it back to that whole skill thing everyone is talking about... This guy's got a point. Ever since Exodus and the elimination of stacked AB/MWD boats CCP has introduced a nerf to speed with *every single major content patch*. If that does not say 'there's a major flaw with speed' then nothing else does. Nano's don't need to be 'gone', but the stacking penalties on multiple speed mods needs to be adjusted a little higher. Not so high as to eliminate the advantage speed boats have (re: Minmatar), but enough that they're not the end-all be-all of PvP as they are now. Or everyone just needs to be running around with Rapier/Hyena gangs... they'll never be challenged by anything. Umm no? Since exodus there has been one patch that buffed speed, and one patch that nerfed speed. Your entire argument fails. There was that patch that made inertias godlike and spawned the nano-domi/nanophoon craze, and then the patch that removed it, thats it.
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:52:00 - [58] General case of; "people that don't know how to pvp" Nano should be the new standard for roaming. Overpowered or not, it shouldn't be nerfed into uselessness. Why can't people accept speedtanking as a viable 3rd (oh wai.. 2nd since they removed pure gank). It's just stupid and frustrating to use the tools for defence / terretorial warfare for roaming. Also, the discussion about being able to kill nano ships is beyond getting stale; "i can't kill a carrier with an ibis" "bring more dps?" "ZOMG YU MEAN I HAV TO DO SOMETHING??"
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 11:54:00 - [59] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/02/2008 11:55:58 Originally by: PhoenixDawn Nano's don't need to be 'gone', but the stacking penalties on multiple speed mods needs to be adjusted a little higher That would be a idiotic move. It would hit the non-pimped nanoships/interceptors which are not a problem and still wouldn't do anything about the setups generally whined about (like, nano-Machs) which rely on snakes/hardwirings (which don't stack with anything just like all the other implants don't), etc. Speed is stacking penalized the same way everything else really is. Many generally whined about setups (Machariels) don't even work without faction stuff and pirate implants. Are nano-ships superior for roaming? Well, duh. Ships built for speed and agility are better for moving around hostile (or any, in fact) territory. Isn't that strange? Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.02.06 12:22:00 - [60] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 06/02/2008 08:38:10 Originally by: Eclip This coming form a TRI guy that is only nano. haha Tri will die when they nerf nanos and it will be funny i will laught. Ya we only do nano gangs. Actually, could you start bringing your BS gangs back to bwf? We have no targets We promise to lose another unfitted dread...
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:00:00 - [61] The fact is that nano ships remove fun from the game. The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs: Oh 20 nano hacs in system X ??? who cares... I will just use a JB to move my ship .... Actually during the last days, we have been fighting on a daily basis other alliances and we are all having FUN. The fact is that they dont use nano stuff, and we dont use them also so, every day several times per day you see fights reaching from 7 vs 7 to 20 vs 20 where you actually fight for long periods of time. Fight nano gangs ???? I dont bother really ... ________________ God is my Wingman
Hardtail Red Dawn Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 13:10:00 - [62] I just you know, kill em : / a nanos worst enemy is himself. and you really dont need to go out of your way with 10 huggins to kill a gang of them. overheated webs, try em now try em with a ganglinked BC theres all sorts of fun things you can do in this game that arent simply " Wah wah he's moving so quick i cant catch him " god forbid something actually make you think once in a while
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:17:00 - [63] Originally by: Eclip Originally by: xHalcyonx Originally by: Eclip Its not that a single nanoed ship ie ishtar, cerb, sac, zealot or vaga is speed fit. and by yes they are viable speed fits. It becomes a problem when there are 10 of them. uginn pilots normally arnt scred of a single or even 2 speed fit ships but 10 or so scares then and they become insta primary and no amount of shieled repping can help you when 2500dps comes at you from 10 nano HACS and thats being conservative its more then this in reality. SO if ur counter is bring a huginn or shut up then that doesnt really fix anything since its dead as soon as it decloaks. The best outcome is you pop all their drones and they get all huffy that you arnt trying to kill them and run away. The speeds some speed HACS are reaching speeds intys cannot. Unless you got 10 huginns plus some damage then you aint gonna kill them in which case they smack about blobs and leave like little girls. IF YOU COME FOR A FIGHT THEN FIGHT DONT RUN LIKE GIRLS. That makes you a gankbear Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. Thats very true but at the same time CCP would be hessitant to remove or alter snakes since they are so expensive and alot of ppl own then and they would get the "if you do we all quit" threat. I dont know a solution but packs of them are neigh invincible and ahve good damage as well. Since killing 30-50 drones is hard to do b4 a BS pops even with smartbombs from that amount of damage. The solution is simple - stop them from dropping. I don't believe they can be manufactured so that pretty much only leaves what people have plugged into their heads and those will mostly be filtered out over time thanks to pod kills.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:18:00 - [64] I already tried to suggest, but no one payed attention If ccp would change the neutralizer overload form 20% rof bonus to 20% extra range. Then done, no more any fricking reason why anyone should complain about nanoships. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Danari Amarr Viper Squad Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 14:55:00 - [65] When will whiners be gone? Because pvpers will always have that winning edge against you no matter what the current mechanics are The only immutable is that the darwin award candidates will still be crying.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:11:00 - [66] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Because apparently in o.o that's pretty much what everyone uses. Machs OOHHHH NOOOOS.... 40 MACHS ON THE GATE, 100 MACH's in HED-GP, 200 MACH'S SIEGING POS'S in FOUNTAIN. OUR TOWERS CAN'T HANDLE IT!!!!! this guy is hilarious... The only thing "skill" players talk about is how ridiculous you are and your whole LE WHINE BRIGADE of idiots... you can't play, you can't just F1,F2,F3, you get PWND, WTFBBQ'd, have crap FC's, nobody to teach you, nobody to listen to your garbage in game, so you come on here and get like 40 people to back you up because YOU are ALL stuck right now in jita buying the cheapest stuff to fit out your next failwhale BS, which YOU ALL believe should pwn anything smaller than it. Got popped in your raven by a flycatcher and 2 raniss huh? Who's got the km, for that, someone has to have that EF mail showing this guy getting blown up by FRIGATES!!! and now he cries his long sad tears here. PATHETIC!
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:21:00 - [67] I think you upset some TRI pilots. Nano argument in three words: Eve Easy Mode. Next...
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:23:00 - [68] Actually, now that I think about it, I do have a better opinion on the subject. Nano ships strength is two fold - the ability to move fast enough to negate almost all damage, making it the most effective tank in the game (99% resist all is pretty sweet after all) and the ability to disengage the minute things go against them. To attain these two simple yet incredibly powerful goals, they have to give up a few things - DPS and legitimate tank to be specific. The problems I see for this are two fold - first it shows a relative imbalance in game mechanic that attempting to attain excellence in a single field allows you to become exceptional in two. A Drake may have a stupidly powerful tank, but it lacks firepower, tackle, and maneuverability to get it - it is in essence a brick with a bite. There are ships that can be pretty good at both tank and gank but there are few that can tank, gank and tackle and be more than passable at any two of the three goals. The second problem is simply that a non nano ship does not have much of a probability of "winning" the battle. In fact, a non nano-ship that has neither web nor a heavy neut is doomed to at best slowly and painfully lose the battle, unless it has an epic tank (because keep in mind, few ships can perma tank more than a few hundred DPS once cap boosters and whatnot run out). Should a non nano ship have one of these items they have a pretty good chance at surviving, so long as they have the long range versions. If they have both they even have a chance to win the day, but the instant you negate the speed tank of a nano ship they run off (unless they're dumb but let's not count idiocy into the argument just yet). Nano gangs are not the most dangerous fleet that can fly through your space - just the hardest one to counter. The "get a minnie recon" friend line only carries you so far. Every nano ship in the world knows minnie recons are THE single best counter to their speed and thus said nano gang will either run the moment one takes the field or primary it and watch it melt. Sure, other ships can potentially stop a nano gang but let's face it - a nano gang is like a 50's biker gang - they show up, gank the first unsuspecting person they find and are gone 5 minutes later - hardly time to form a defense. While Nano-Gangs can only cause limited damage, it is their ability to dictate the terms of the fight that make them imbalanced in my view. The fact that my choices are to equip specifically FOR nano ships or die to the first one that comes along is irritating to me since equipping for that one potentiality lowers my effectivness at just about everything else. Are Nano Gangs the most pressing problem to be addressed in Eve? Probably not. Most nano ships don't get to invulnerable speeds anyway since the average pilot cannot expend the billions of ISK that it takes to achieve. But Nano Gangs do represent the ability to dictate the time, place and duration of any fight, which is perhaps to great of an edge for a single ship. On the other side of the argument, nano gangs are important in eve to an extent though - they have shanken the mold of 0.0 warfare from the blob based russian roulette into something that gives a small attack force a fighting chance at doing some good. Do nano gangs need to get 10km/s to achieve this? Not really - but in a game where even most battleships can go nearly 1km/s, you have to achieve a truly absurd speed for speed to become an actual advantage. Eve has long been am imbalanced game, and is perhaps the powergamer's single best friend. I don't think it was ever intended for certain ships (such as the sacrilige) to EVER be considered fast, but thanks to plentiful low slots and rigs it can be one of the deadliest nano ships in the game. For all my irritation with nano gangs however, I am working towards my own because I recognize that nano ships are excellent counters for nano ships.
Ethen Bejorn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:25:00 - [69] The time has come to nerf speed. This is how it begins, and honestly, I can't say I mind. It is a shame that every ship is fit with a nano setup these days.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:37:00 - [70] Originally by: Hardtail I just you know, kill em : / a nanos worst enemy is himself. and you really dont need to go out of your way with 10 huggins to kill a gang of them. overheated webs, try em now try em with a ganglinked BC theres all sorts of fun things you can do in this game that arent simply " Wah wah he's moving so quick i cant catch him " god forbid something actually make you think once in a while Legitimate argument, but let's face it - when you're being gang raped by 4 nano ships there isn't much "time to think" about a better course of action or to change your fittings or to get a gang linked BC. Of course, that being said 4:1 odds should net you a win even without the speed :P Secondly, the argument that "speed tanking requries more skill and throught that f1-f8" line is getting old. For starters, speed tankers get guns too, just less of them so I'm sure it's F1 - f5 for them, plus the MWD button and then they orbit at just outside web range. Sometime's it looks like the vagas MIGHT be flying manually (you'll see them stop with a zig zag and do a straight approach for a volly then go back to the zig zag) but sacs and cerbs certainly don't seem to be. The "everyone else is using canned fitting lines" is also one of epic failure as well - since the "go really fast" fitting idea has existed for a very long time before it became possible to make larger ships go faster than damage. Everyone else is expected to react to the canned vaga/mach/sac/ishtar fittings (because they don't really vary on anything but how much you spend on mods these days do they?) with crazy ideas and fittings, but let's face it - most people don't fit to fight a nano by default (because it makes them less good at just about everything else in most cases). By the time you get a gang together to respond the threat as come, ganked and moved on. So cut it with the high and mighty attitude that nano fits are somehow "hard" and are somehow "weak" and that everyone else is "stupid". Nano ships let you dictate the terms of the battle. Period. That means that the only way to kill you is for you to be dumb about when, where and how a fight takes place. And that gives you an immense edge over ANYTHING else no matter what you choose to think.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:38:00 - [71] Originally by: Derek Sigres On the other side of the argument, nano gangs are important in eve to an extent though - they have shanken the mold of 0.0 warfare from the blob based russian roulette into something that gives a small attack force a fighting chance at doing some good. Do nano gangs need to get 10km/s to achieve this? Not really - but in a game where even most battleships can go nearly 1km/s, you have to achieve a truly absurd speed for speed to become an actual advantage. Eve has long been am imbalanced game, and is perhaps the powergamer's single best friend. I don't think it was ever intended for certain ships (such as the sacrilige) to EVER be considered fast, but thanks to plentiful low slots and rigs it can be one of the deadliest nano ships in the game. For all my irritation with nano gangs however, I am working towards my own because I recognize that nano ships are excellent counters for nano ships. The magic number is about 3.5-4km/sec, which is easy to attain with quite a few ships without any factions mods or faction implants. While you're not saying it, a lot of times the argument from nano pilots is that nano's cost a lot to setup, which is a myth. They just cost a lot if taken to the extreme.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:46:00 - [72] wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 15:52:00 - [73] Originally by: Matrixcvd [text vomit] Yeah, you're right. Nano pilots are the elite of the elite. We should all be bowing down to your seperior kill/death ratio's and immensely superior tactical situation awareness... ...And your ability to run away.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:04:00 - [74] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 06/02/2008 15:59:30 Originally by: Matrixcvd [text vomit] Yeah, you're right. Nano pilots are the elite of the elite. We should all be bowing down to your superior kill/death ratio's and immensely superior tactical situation awareness... ...And your ability to run away. the point of the previous post was not to spell out uberleetness it was to disprove the concept, first that its easy, second, that its an IWIN button. There is a ship type for every aspect of this game. Speed fits are good for roaming gangs and some other things. Its not a superior tank, nor tactic. Spead fits are heavily balanced and have proved to be something that everyone can utilize if they so chose, regardless of whether you aspire to fly the vaga. To sit there with a sh1tload of deathmails in your combat log and talk about balance and fairness in EVE PVP is where most people get p1ssed off cause you haven't a clue about nano, about pvp and about eve in general. You just try and dredge up your fellow whiners who also fit your MO.
Aya Otosaki	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:08:00 - [75] speed is plenty ok,speed is needed for tacling. the only thing that is kinda screwed is the tracking formula. ----- Ignorance is my strength.
Odium47	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:25:00 - [76] Hopefully never, Ceyna. Deal with them and stop biatching about it. If it won't nano ship, it will be tank ships, if won't be any tank ships, we will have damage dealers, if not damage dealer, something else... The idea is a moron like you who only pushes F-butons and copy set ups from site or worth uses EFT to fit, will always die and whine about it. If you don't like it, go play something else and leave us alone !
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:28:00 - [77] Originally by: DeadDuck The fact is that nano ships remove fun from the game. The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs: Oh 20 nano hacs in system X ??? who cares... I will just use a JB to move my ship .... Actually during the last days, we have been fighting on a daily basis other alliances and we are all having FUN. The fact is that they dont use nano stuff, and we dont use them also so, every day several times per day you see fights reaching from 7 vs 7 to 20 vs 20 where you actually fight for long periods of time. Fight nano gangs ???? I dont bother really ... Speedfits exist because of the blob, certain individuals love the blob isn't that right?
Drasked North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:29:00 - [78] Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis?
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Matrixcvd the point of the previous post was not to spell out uberleetness it was to disprove the concept, first that its easy, second, that its an IWIN button. There is a ship type for every aspect of this game. Speed fits are good for roaming gangs and some other things. Its not a superior tank, nor tactic You're not disproving anything. You're trying to make it sound like flying speed setups is difficult, or at the very least, more of a challenge than flying other setups. True, there is more information to process on the fly due to the speed you're flying at, but it's a double-edged sword. The speed you're flying at also means that even if you do make a mistake, unless it's a really stupid mistake, you'll still have enough speed/range to correct yourself and continue fighting or make the ever-reliable nano-pilot run and bail. Quote: Spead fits are heavily balanced and have proved to be something that everyone can utilize if they so chose, regardless of whether you aspire to fly the vaga. Heh. If by 'Heavily balanced' you mean 'in your favour' then yeah. And yes, anyone can fly nano... But last I checked this is Eve Online, not Nano's Online. Suggesting that everyone else should fly nano in order to compete is silly. Quote: To sit there with a sh1tload of deathmails in your combat log and talk about balance and fairness in EVE PVP is where most people get p1ssed off cause you haven't a clue about nano, about pvp and about eve in general. You just try and dredge up your fellow whiners who also fit your MO. Reducing an argument to attacks on a players ability and playing the ever reliable Eve-O 'whiner' card doesn't make you any less wrong. Just take a look at... Oh... I don't know... TRI's killboard. One might argue that their high kill/death ratio is due to sheer excess of pilot skill. But my money is on the fact that they rely heavily (as does my own corp) on nano-gangs to get those high kill-death ratios because they know that speed tanks give you the power to pick and choose your fights and to get the hell out if the scanner shows anything remotely likely to kill you. Name me any other form of PvP combat where you can just up and leave the battlefield if it's not going your way. Short of a well FCed E-War heavy gang, any other form of PvP combat involves pilots committing to the battle. Once you choose to stick around and fight, you're pretty much stuck their until one party or the other dies or has taken heavy casualties. This simply isn't the case with speed setups, and therein lies the problem. The ability to dictate every battle and leave when it's not to your liking increases your survival chances monumentally, negating a huge portion of risk associated with PvP and resulting in over-inflated kill/death ratio's and an army of nano-pilots who have convinced themselves that they're some sort of special breed and that the game mechanics are just fine.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.06 16:46:00 - [80] Edited by: Polly Prissypantz on 06/02/2008 16:52:21 Originally by: Drasked Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis? Shall we do a comparison of how many nano-setups die daily compared to non-nano setups? Or would the resulting skew in numbers just be because all the skilled pilots fly nano and all the incompetent pilots fly non-nano? Yeah that must be it. Game mechanics are just fine.
Jarvin Kell Kingdom of Kador	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:04:00 - [81] Originally by: Wet Ferret Edited by: Wet Ferret on 06/02/2008 02:30:34 Originally by: xHalcyonx It is _very_ easy to kill a nano ship. Why use a sledge(nerf)hammer when a scalpel(friends/counters) does the job just fine? Because things that allow you to escape easily at any time while still being able to fight (like old WCSs) are unbalanced? Nerf interceptors
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:06:00 - [82] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz True, there is more information to process on the fly due to the speed you're flying at thank you for aggreeing, my point, IWIN. Originally by: Polly Prissypantz The speed you're flying at also means that even if you do make a mistake, unless it's a really stupid mistake... Really dumb statement. You dont make a mistake and pull up your pants and run to the bathroom with a little wet spot on your clothes. You make a mistake in these ships and its podjuice everywhere. There are no "really stupid mistakes". It's either you kill, or you f-up and die, or you get away in which its called a draw. Draws happen from time to time, thats what the OTHER COLUMN IS FOR! Originally by: Polly Prissypantz The ability to dictate every battle and leave when it's not to your liking increases your survival chances monumentally This is the definition of a good soldier, good commander. This is a combat sim with internet spaceships. If you don't do this you die. You act like its a bad thing, or something thats unfair and cheap. OH NOOS BILLY PUNCHED A LITTLE FAT KID... OHHH NOOS.... OH NOOS... THAT SKINNY FAST KID KICKED BILLY IN THE JUNK AND THEN RAN AROUND HIM AND FLYING KICKED HIM... OHH NOOS... You either bully with force/blob or you fight with speed or through other means... you just don't get it. Originally by: Polly Prissypantz any other form of PvP combat involves pilots committing to the battle. Once you choose to stick around and fight, you're pretty much stuck their until one party or the other dies or has taken heavy casualties. You would have been the greatest general in the 18th century. Lets stack our forces and slug each other till the one with more soliders win. Ok Redcoat, let me get my guerilla americans and hide in the bushes for you to come by, OH NOOOS WE DON'T FIGHT FAIR!!!!! All of your statements are crap. Predicated on the fact that you want fair fights, you want there to be a battlezone where people can't escape and for you to march over to them and slug it out with. You have no idea how this game works and have proved my point far more than i could ever. This game is about convincing the other pilots to fight, when you know that they are already dead. Not by jumping thru a gate and announcing. "I THE VALIANT AND FAIR COMMANDER COMMIT THEE TO A DUEL AND YOU MUST HONOR THAT DUEL, AND YOU MUST BE OF SAID HONOR AND VALOR OR I CALL SHENNANIGANS!!" GB2WoW
Camulos Redne Amarr No Quarter. Vae Victis.	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:53:00 - [83] shield tanked curse with 3 neutralizers and recon 5. I use to have an uba sig. Then it got wtfpwned!
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 17:58:00 - [84] Originally by: Matrixcvd wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly 1. The one legitimate thing nano ships are doing that no one else does 2. Everyone but passive shield tankers watch their cap, and even passive ships do it to an extent 3. Watching overview for distance to targets and paying attention to my tactical overlay ensures I maintain optimal range myself 4. Watching my damage output is important so I can tell if I'm breaking a tank or not and judge the progress of the battle 5. I watch my drone hp as does everyone else with a drone in the air if they're smart 6. I watch the tacklers same as anybody relying on another player to tackle does 7. Calling the right targets is important in any fleet How about: 1. Prioritizing weapons to appropiate targets (e.g the warriors to the fastest ships, precision missiles for smaller targets etc) Pretty sure everyone does this but it didn't make the speed list 2. Maneuvering to maintain optimal ranges in relation to enemy and friendly forces. Speed adds only arguably the need to watch your movement relative to targets, and when you speed gets high enough your margin of error here is pretty wide (e.g. >30degree off direct approach can keep a crow infront of the transversal of most guns)
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:16:00 - [85] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis? Oh, but the fact they die is not proof they're not invunerable. Oh, wait... Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:17:00 - [86] Originally by: Matrixcvd wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly D - Thread Response System A - Unnecessary whine. Please Adapt. B - Some or all of your opinions are incorrect. C - Thread already exists. D - You are correct.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon	Posted - 2008.02.06 18:41:00 - [87] Nano ships are boring, thats the bottom line. They are boring to fly, the are boring to fight, and the fights are rarely close. Do they need some changes? Yes. Are they effective, yes. Are they difficult to fly? As much as any other ship. Its not a debate - nano ships will be nurfed, and I am looking forward to it because I am sick and tired of seeing and flying the same cruisers all the time. but thats my opinion. -----------
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:11:00 - [88] Originally by: Matrixcvd wow... just absolute garbage, the OP has done his job in bringing out the whiners... you guys, while are trying to think of reasons why nano's are so uber just have missed the whole point. Look its flat out more dangerous to fly speed tank ships. If anyone is going to sit here and spew more garabge about how "nano is easy" then you clearly don't fly them 1. Watchin speed 2. Watchin cap 3. Watchin overiew distance to other targets 4. Watchin damage output 5. Watchin you drone hp 6. Watchin other tacklers 7. Calling right targets All of this goes on AT THE SAME TIME to be effective during a speed fight. If you are gonna tell me a drake has to do all this then your an idiot. There are enough counters, there are enough tactics. You simply have not plugged in the idiot behind the keyboard and got the info correctly That would be correct if most engagements weren't so 1-sided it's just a matter of the nano's target waiting to run out of cap. Also - I love it when people say 'your and idiot' and don't actually mean it ironically
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Lorz0r Also - I love it when people say 'your and idiot' and don't actually mean it ironically Haha, pwnt. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:15:00 - [90] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Lorz0r Also - I love it when people say 'your and idiot' and don't actually mean it ironically Haha, pwnt. lol i pwnt myself but that was a typo and not misunderstanding of english grammar! or something
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:21:00 - [91] Whilst for even single targets conventional setups usually leaves a pilot frustrated when fighting a nano ship,however this is not what is bad as the enemy would not be able to produce enough dps to kill you. The problem is gangs of 20-30 where everybody just nanos and if it gets too bad for a sole pilot that pilot just runs recharges his shields and rushes back in,dps in this situation doesnt matter due to your nano ships being able to outrun the conventional setup ships of the opposing side,whereas the nano boats can pump out enough dps to destroy your fleet....The only reason this is overpowered is there are no conventional counters to this tactic,the only way to stop them is nanoing your own fleet. Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:36:00 - [92] A group of skilled players is going to be a serious threat no matter how you choose to tweak the game rules. Put the noobs aside and consider veteran pvpers. Veteran fighter understands that there are no unkillable ships, there are difficult situations, but that's where the real fun is, trying to win in a difficult situation. There are many pro's and con's to each tactic, including the nanoship tactics. The ability to use speed as powerful combat tactic greatly expands the possibilities in EVE combat.
Zhulik Abyss Restless Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:37:00 - [93] Nanoishtars have got to go, everything else I'm fine with. Seriously, don't people fit conventional tanks on their ishtars anymore? Love people who fly nanodrakes(not too much nano tbh), nanoishtars, etc. and write something like "nanos are the aimbot of eve, even if you win you still suck" in their bios. Ooooh, shiny. ----- My views reflect those of my corp completely and entirely. My corpmates will gladly go to war over my forum antics.
Odium47	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:43:00 - [94] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. How stupid is this reply ?! If you are sick of it, you can simply switch to another set up. If you are sick of the game, go play something else.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:43:00 - [95] another 5 more combatants for the "Le Whine Brigade" . I just laugh at people who say there are no counters. I laugh at people when they say 20-30 nano's just is ridiculous when their 8 man BS gang gets slaughtered. I am gonna keep laughin when after all the dust settles there won't be any significant changes made to speed fits in this game. I laugh at just the failsauce you people seem to swim in cause you can't figure out the proper tactics and how to fly, fight, and live in places were people don't want to take 6 hours to go 29 jumps. Its hilarious to think flying speed fits is boring. its probably the most exciting, for both combat and FC'ing. In balanced fleets, it changes the whole game in terms of callin the battle, watching everything unfold on the grid. The idiots in this thread would like us to just line up like battleships in WWII and fire salvos at each other, its ridiculous. All we have here are a handful of people who can't PVP, thats it. The real problem is that the whiners tend to get the attention of new people and can easily convince them that speed fits are unfair because they haven't even gotten out of running missions yet. Thats the sad part. sad really
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:51:00 - [96] Originally by: Odium47 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. How stupid is this reply ?! If you are sick of it, you can simply switch to another set up. If you are sick of the game, go play something else. i'm pretty sure the point was that to stay competative you have to fly nano ships yourself
Ceyna Lakise	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:57:00 - [97] Originally by: Matrixcvd RAWR RAWR RAWR!!! Ooof, TRI get really touchy about their nano fleets don't they? When you see an entire alliance base their fleets off a single design purpose you begin to wonder where the balance lies... 4 pages of cutthroat yelling, wtf did I start?
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:00:00 - [98] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling.
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:00:00 - [99] Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Organized Combat Consortium Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:00:00 - [100] Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships Not constructive - Navigator People like you amaze me, among all the other idiotic comments on how nano ships are completely fine. No, I am not training Amarr Cruiser 5 for a month just to get primaried and die within 20 seconds when I run into a nano-gang. No, that extra 2km will not help on the web, you are an idiot. And yes, obviously newbie alts are able to fly blackbirds well (I honestly don't know where you came up with this), and sure, I'll get 10 alts with Blackbirds and 10 interceptors and look, I can't kill a single vagabond, yet it just 3 volleyed all my ships.
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:02:00 - [101] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Originally by: Matrixcvd RAWR RAWR RAWR!!! Ooof, TRI get really touchy about their nano fleets don't they? When you see an entire alliance base their fleets off a single design purpose you begin to wonder where the balance lies... 4 pages of cutthroat yelling, wtf did I start? You started 4 pages of the typical forum whiners whining, and sensible people trying to reason with people who refuse to accept facts that disagree with their viewpoint.
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:06:00 - [102] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis? It's easy... gate camps with rapiers, jamming ships with inteceptors on support so they can be webbed, but once again, camping is not fun. To to trow 3/4 ships at one single nanohac to be able to catch him is not fun... I could go on and on. If there are rapiers+interdictors or intys+jammers you may catch them - if they dont just aproach gate again and jump out - but if they arent available... well not worth it... This is only for a single hac, now imagine dealing with 10, 20 or even 60 ... ________________ God is my Wingman
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:07:00 - [103] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling. Lo, I wonder who is trolling right now... -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:09:00 - [104] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling. Lo, I wonder who is trolling right now... ITT: The delicious irony of trolls trolling trolls.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Odium47 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. How stupid is this reply ?! If you are sick of it, you can simply switch to another set up. If you are sick of the game, go play something else. i'm pretty sure the point was that to stay competative you have to fly nano ships yourself You took the words out of my mouth. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:17:00 - [106] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You took the words out of my mouth. Someone understood you through all the flamebait?
Parfait M North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:27:00 - [107] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You took the words out of my mouth. Someone understood you through all the flamebait? Am I in Bizarro world or what? ------- Drink apple juice; OJ will KILL YOU!
Vadimik	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:35:00 - [108] sigh Ok. Want to scare nanos to death ? Try this. Moros. With 5 drone nav comps. And a load of light/med drones.
AstroPhobic Minmatar Port Royal Independent Kontractors Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:38:00 - [109] To keep my reply short, because I could write a book on this.... -Increase mass on current non-minmatar nanoships (Ishtar.. Other HACs?) And that's it. Minmatar should keep their nano because well, there's only 4 minmatar ships that CAN nano anyway. Vaga, Phoon, and both Recons. Not to mention that both of those recons can KILL all of the nanos. There are enough counters to nano to keep them balanced. As a long time vagabond/minmatar pilot, I can say with absolute certainty that nano-ships are the HARDEST ships to fly, and require constant attention. Has anyone checked the price of polycarbs lately? They're not cheap....
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:46:00 - [110] The only thing that I'm seriously concerned about is that CCP Zulupark who has the power to make these changes is not experienced enough in pvp to have good judgement without relying on other's opinion. If he has to rely on other's opinion, he may take these whiners seriously. CCP can stealth nerf without much provokation, very dangerous.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:00:00 - [111] The problem with nano is not that you can't beat them, but that you can't kill them (yes I know you CAN, but I am figuratively speaking). That is also what makes an experienced nanogang so much worse to fight against than an experienced conventional gang (as if such a thing existed anymore in todays 0.0 lol). If you fight against conventional ships, even if you are clearly outskilled and outgunned, you still have a decent chance of taking at least some of them to the grave with you, which can result in a fun fight. If you fight a nanogang, you know that you most likely won't kill any, since as soon as you reveal the Huginns/Rapiers (that are usually unwilling to make themselves primary to 20 enemies in the first place), they either kill them really fast, or just bugger off. Because of this, I actually find lowsec PvP a lot more enjoyable, since Sentries know how to deal with nanocrap ;) There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:10:00 - [112] Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 06/02/2008 21:11:33 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling. Lo, I wonder who is trolling right now... Yes, Lyria doesn't appear to just troll the forums and throw out random posts. What she does is referred to as JonnyJoJo-ism. It's not technically trolling, since it actually does have a purpose (even if the purpose is the ruination of the game by killing it's diversity). It consists of a few basic principals: 1) Go to every forum that exists and seek out threads by races which you do not play, post in there talking about how overpowered said race is compared to your own race without actually offering any sort of real math, explanation, or facts. 2) Go to every forum that exists and seek out threads by the race you DO play, and then post in there talking about how underpowered you are and how overpowered all other races are and fabricate several reasons in hopes of wooing the mindless masses to agree with you. 3) Go to every forum that exists and seek out threads about tactics that you find too difficult to employ successfully, and then post about how said tactic is overpowered and must be removed and/or nerfed. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Fehz Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:16:00 - [113] There's nano cerbs? I've never seen one of those... (referring to what the op said)
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:52:00 - [114] I wish I knew someone in real life who plays this game and whines about speed fittings. I'd go beat the ** out of them. - Thread Response System** A - Unnecessary whine. Please Adapt. B - Some or all of your opinions are incorrect. C - Thread already exists. D - You are correct.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:03:00 - [115] Originally by: Matrixcvd another 5 more combatants for the "Le Whine Brigade" . I just laugh at people who say there are no counters. I laugh at people when they say 20-30 nano's just is ridiculous when their 8 man BS gang gets slaughtered. I am gonna keep laughin when after all the dust settles there won't be any significant changes made to speed fits in this game. I laugh at just the failsauce you people seem to swim in cause you can't figure out the proper tactics and how to fly, fight, and live in places were people don't want to take 6 hours to go 29 jumps. Its hilarious to think flying speed fits is boring. its probably the most exciting, for both combat and FC'ing. In balanced fleets, it changes the whole game in terms of callin the battle, watching everything unfold on the grid. The idiots in this thread would like us to just line up like battleships in WWII and fire salvos at each other, its ridiculous. All we have here are a handful of people who can't PVP, thats it. The real problem is that the whiners tend to get the attention of new people and can easily convince them that speed fits are unfair because they haven't even gotten out of running missions yet. Thats the sad part. sad really I completely understand the need for nano ships - they break up the monotony of PvP and help keep it from being a bunch of battleships lined up and firing salvos (but when it comes to large fleet warfare, that's pretty much all you CAN do thanks to lag). My issues and complaints have already been stated earlier in the thread. Nano ships have the ability to dictate everything about a fight - thus giving them an immense advantage. The fastest ships in the game can have a simple, relatively low cost t2 non implant nano fit and be immune to damage, the slower ones of course have to expend exhorbinant sums of money to achieve the same thing. You thus have a target that will remain near invulnerable so long as they don't creep inside NEUT/Web range (assuming you have one or the other and plenty of ships simply don't have the ability to fit enough neut to help them and cant afford a long range web). No other ship theory has the ability to fight when it's favorable and run the minute the battle turns against them, and I would point to the WCS nerf as proof that CCP doesn't want you to be able to just up and leave the minute you feel like it even if you have a few points on you. The real problem with the Nano gang isn't about skill or cost or effectivness - it's the simple fact that the only thing a non-nano ship can hope to do is survive the attack - that's all that neut and web will buy you. To KILL a nano gang, you need a GROUP of minie recons and/or a nano gang of your own. (because, in spite of the argument people have about the wonders of the minnie recons, they tend to be the first thing to die if the nano gang stands and fights).
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:04:00 - [116] Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters).
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:22:00 - [117] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters). This tactic relies on the nano-pilot to simply not pay attention to your maneuvers, and failing to use his "coast" to leave your web range the minute you snag them. A counter that relies on the opponent to screw up in his own response is a gamble, not a counter. Using similar tactics I've managed to beat back nano ships but I've never managed to do more that "scare them" in terms of damage (In a 1V1). Most of them seem to recognize the danger of both web and neuts and leave. In a larger gang (on the rare occasion anybody bothers to form a gang rather than just dock and wait for them to get bored) I've seen the occasional nano-kill from non nano ships but that was based entirely on the fact that the pilots chose not to escape and pressed their attacks - if you get enough ships it doesn't quite matter if there's a web or not, the nano ship is going to have a low transversal for somebody. In spite of what some people may gather from my posts, I'm not saying they need to be nerfed per se - speed is imporant in keeping the battlefield fluid. I'm saying that as they stand they are far to difficult to counter by anything other than a specialized ship (minnie recons), vastly superior numbers, or nano ships of your own.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:25:00 - [118] Originally by: Eclip Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 03:46:15 Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships Not constructive - Navigator HAHA i would like to see ur 10 blackbirds 10 intys kill 10 vagas their drones would pop 2 - 3 of ur blackbirds when they uncloaked and noob skills in blackbirds suck for jamming. Get outta ur nano ship and try to fight some. Overheated neuts go to 26-27 omg their at 28-30km gl with that and ur overheated webs go to 13km. hm 28-13 = omg 15km which is more then ur webs reach by 2 times. The gun dps of a vaga sucks it gets more damage from drones. plus when u are doing ur 2 and 3 damage per missile the vaga is killig you with its pathetic gun dps. so you fail. missile ships dont kill nano ships till they stop period. This thread is getting derailed now though. Sorry to the OP just sick of the stupid replies about catching nano ships all the time. No thought to them what so ever they just go ooohhhh aaaarrrr minni reocns ahve web bonus use that. sigh back to work i guess You do know Vaga's have to slow down to shoot? --
pandymen The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:29:00 - [119] Edited by: pandymen on 06/02/2008 22:30:15 Yeah...honestly, if the nano ships outnubmer you so much that you do not have enough ships to neut/TD them, then you would probably get slaughtered anyway. If they brought that many battleships, they would prolly still pwn you with 0 losses. All I have to say is heavy neuts. Nanos cannot dictate everything. If they come within warp dis range, I can neut them. If they come within web range, I can web them. So, if I see a solo/small gang against my lonesome BS, I will just mwd back to gate and survive. If I see a large nano gang catch my lonesome ship, I'm an idiot for going out alone anyway without paying attention to intel channels. There is nothing overpowered about a nano ship. The entire reason for the issue is the same problem idiots had with the passive drakes before. They were ****ed they couldn't kill one with their BS, although, in most cases, they could. Same thing goes for nanos....you may not be able to kill it with every ship, but it sure as heck can't kill every ship either. It needs help, just like you do to kill it. Edit: And you realize that as much as people seem to think tracking disruptors are useless....you realize they are an awesome counter against the tracking on nano ships?
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:53:00 - [120] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ariel Dawn Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters). This tactic relies on the nano-pilot to simply not pay attention to your maneuvers, and failing to use his "coast" to leave your web range the minute you snag them. A counter that relies on the opponent to screw up in his own response is a gamble, not a counter. Using similar tactics I've managed to beat back nano ships but I've never managed to do more that "scare them" in terms of damage (In a 1V1). Most of them seem to recognize the danger of both web and neuts and leave. In a larger gang (on the rare occasion anybody bothers to form a gang rather than just dock and wait for them to get bored) I've seen the occasional nano-kill from non nano ships but that was based entirely on the fact that the pilots chose not to escape and pressed their attacks - if you get enough ships it doesn't quite matter if there's a web or not, the nano ship is going to have a low transversal for somebody. In spite of what some people may gather from my posts, I'm not saying they need to be nerfed per se - speed is imporant in keeping the battlefield fluid. I'm saying that as they stand they are far to difficult to counter by anything other than a specialized ship (minnie recons), vastly superior numbers, or nano ships of your own. No, it doesn't rely on the pilot making a mistake. The nano-ships have to slow down (unless missile or drone based) to do any damage. There is no way a Vagabond/etc can counter being neuted and caught as their speed is not sufficient without MWD to escape any ship with a MWD. The only possible counter a nano-ship has to this is fitting a capacitor booster; but then that weakens their shield tank significantly as well and hence it is rarely done. Neuts, overloaded MWD and Web = 100% kill rate vs Vaga and associated nanoship that slow down that have cruiser-sized capacitors. Just to make it clear, there is no chance they can coast out of your web range because their MWD was never on when you hit them with neuts and will have no inertia once they get webbed (and they will). This is VERY easy to pull off against nano-ships and is one of the best points of ships like the Tempest since neuts are very easy to fit on it.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.06 23:08:00 - [121] Yes Nano can be quite easily killed if you know what your doing, I fly a standard aromor tanked curse and i would not hesitate to take on a nano ishtar/rapier/huggin 1v1 any day, easy pickings. Sacs will rip me a new one and vagas flown right will end me as well. Zealots are always interesting, can go either way. Fighting nano's is not the problem (not over powered in combat), there are ways to take them down, and they do blink out of existence as soon as you catch one. The problem is as soon as you take one down with your counter, it goes out over their team speak and you suddenly see the gang burning hard away from you, I'm sorry but there is no real way to fight/kill something 300km away and getting further. It feels like the WCS days of old. And this argument about nano's being some sort of answer to the blob has got to stop. People blob in nano ships as much as any other type of ship.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 00:11:00 - [122] Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options. Nano sacs and ishtars move much slower then most other nano ships(ie vaga huggin etc...),now the problem was that a vaga sleipnir or any minmatar/caldari speed boat can orbit around you and even neuts do nothing,now with the falloff bonus its a start,you can now cut down the range of most minmatar speed tanks,kill the ishtars drones and neut amarrian type ones,the only ones left are missile spammers. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.07 01:09:00 - [123] Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 07/02/2008 00:16:03 Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options. Nano sacs and ishtars move much slower then most other nano ships(ie vaga huggin etc...),now the problem was that a vaga sleipnir or any minmatar/caldari speed boat can orbit around you and even neuts do nothing,now with the falloff bonus its a start,you can now cut down the range of most minmatar speed tanks,kill the ishtars drones and neut amarrian type ones,the only ones left are missile spammers. Oh and if they have a huge gang of ishtars pack lots of smartbombs and they will cry. Neuts work against all nano-ships that are not cap-injected, no matter their race/weapon type. If they can't MWD and you can, you are going to close the distance and be able to put a web on them. Minmatar ships are the easiest to neut down because they have the smallest capacitors of all the races.
Polly Prissypantz	Posted - 2008.02.07 05:12:00 - [124] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Polly Prissypantz True, there is more information to process on the fly due to the speed you're flying at thank you for aggreeing, my point, IWIN. Originally by: Polly Prissypantz The speed you're flying at also means that even if you do make a mistake, unless it's a really stupid mistake... Really dumb statement. You dont make a mistake and pull up your pants and run to the bathroom with a little wet spot on your clothes. You make a mistake in these ships and its podjuice everywhere. There are no "really stupid mistakes". It's either you kill, or you f-up and die, or you get away in which its called a draw. Draws happen from time to time, thats what the OTHER COLUMN IS FOR! Originally by: Polly Prissypantz The ability to dictate every battle and leave when it's not to your liking increases your survival chances monumentally This is the definition of a good soldier, good commander. This is a combat sim with internet spaceships. If you don't do this you die. You act like its a bad thing, or something thats unfair and cheap. OH NOOS BILLY PUNCHED A LITTLE FAT KID... OHHH NOOS.... OH NOOS... THAT SKINNY FAST KID KICKED BILLY IN THE JUNK AND THEN RAN AROUND HIM AND FLYING KICKED HIM... OHH NOOS... You either bully with force/blob or you fight with speed or through other means... you just don't get it. Originally by: Polly Prissypantz any other form of PvP combat involves pilots committing to the battle. Once you choose to stick around and fight, you're pretty much stuck their until one party or the other dies or has taken heavy casualties. You would have been the greatest general in the 18th century. Lets stack our forces and slug each other till the one with more soliders win. Ok Redcoat, let me get my guerilla americans and hide in the bushes for you to come by, OH NOOOS WE DON'T FIGHT FAIR!!!!! All of your statements are crap. Predicated on the fact that you want fair fights, you want there to be a battlezone where people can't escape and for you to march over to them and slug it out with. You have no idea how this game works and have proved my point far more than i could ever. This game is about convincing the other pilots to fight, when you know that they are already dead. Not by jumping thru a gate and announcing. "I THE VALIANT AND FAIR COMMANDER COMMIT THEE TO A DUEL AND YOU MUST HONOR THAT DUEL, AND YOU MUST BE OF SAID HONOR AND VALOR OR I CALL SHENNANIGANS!!" GB2WoW I don't know what makes me less intelligent. The fact that I waste my time on Eve-O, or the fact that I read this response.
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.07 05:29:00 - [125] Originally by: Polly Prissypantz I don't know what makes me less intelligent. The fact that I waste my time on Eve-O, or the fact that I read this response. The fact that you are still posting.
Spike Hammer ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 05:52:00 - [126] What i dont get if these ships are so easy to kill why is everyone flying them, lets be honest some nano ships are overpowered, i dont have a problem with the vaga but some of the other nano ships are.
Yargo Metash Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 05:55:00 - [127] Seems the problem with Nano's isn't that they're nano... It's that a majority of the playerbase seems to be rather pod/wreck-thirsty in EvE Hell, I like to hear the stories of those elegant few ships taunting and teasing the gang, getting them to chase through countless asteroid belts, both the hunters and the prey having a blast for the chase, whether or not there's any kills to be had. If it's not fun, don't play it. (Or in this game you could try something else. Mabye ewar? Cloaked gankery?)
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 08:07:00 - [128] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 07/02/2008 00:16:03 Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options. Nano sacs and ishtars move much slower then most other nano ships(ie vaga huggin etc...),now the problem was that a vaga sleipnir or any minmatar/caldari speed boat can orbit around you and even neuts do nothing,now with the falloff bonus its a start,you can now cut down the range of most minmatar speed tanks,kill the ishtars drones and neut amarrian type ones,the only ones left are missile spammers. Oh and if they have a huge gang of ishtars pack lots of smartbombs and they will cry. Neuts work against all nano-ships that are not cap-injected, no matter their race/weapon type. If they can't MWD and you can, you are going to close the distance and be able to put a web on them. Minmatar ships are the easiest to neut down because they have the smallest capacitors of all the races. You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are,so in this situation neuting does very little because the said ship just runs and the rest can just orbit and fire away....But with the new falloff stuff the conventional setup ships if used properly can make sure atleast 70% of the enemy vagabonds/other ac minny ships are useless. Its not the fix but its a start. Oh and ps,I was in nano gangs before and all of them packed cap boosters for this situation,so if the enemy ship closes the gap then you just get a quick hit of energy and off you go. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
huxorator Intergalactic Serenity R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.07 09:48:00 - [129] Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... --- IGS \| Intergalactic Serenity
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.07 12:21:00 - [130] Originally by: Spike Hammer What i dont get if these ships are so easy to kill why is everyone flying them, lets be honest some nano ships are overpowered, i dont have a problem with the vaga but some of the other nano ships are. More people fly slow battleships than nano-ships. By your logic we should nerf battleships. Raven would be on top of the nerf list.
Kieran Jarnush	Posted - 2008.02.07 13:09:00 - [131] Originally by: xHalcyonx The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. no u aren't tanking, u are avoiding. tanking means receiving damage, like armor/shield tanks do, and being able to repair it. if u receive enough damage u can be killed. speed is about avoiding damage, which kind of makes it a countermeasure (not an electronic one tho) :p
Coolie Wise	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:04:00 - [132] Edited by: Coolie Wise on 07/02/2008 14:05:53 I have a great fit to nano ships.. how about sized webber units? small med and large, with a web factor relative to target mass and webber size. This would make sense from a physics point of view because a larger machine would produce a larger/denser field around the target ship, and would cost more power grid for a larger unit also a larger ship would be less effected by a small little peasly web field from a glorified fighter. A larger unit would also have more range from additoinal power. OR they could simply add an inertia damage onto a weber... lets be honest if your kipping along at 6km per second and decelerate to 1km/second in 3 seconds... well you just shredded most materals known to man, and your brain just crushed into your skill and you died at your controls.. o wait.. they shredded into nano particles when your ships hull did a 2km/second decelaration and everything inside yoru ship didn't. Game mechanics fix Small medium and large webbers.. . easy fix. and you didnt break the 'fast' ships primary roll by doing it, which is recon and tackel. also makes more sense to physics, and makes the idea of an 'area' web doable in game... _____EDIT____ Flame away
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:20:00 - [133] Originally by: Kieran Jarnush Originally by: xHalcyonx The sooner you accept the following fact the sooner you can get over it: Speed is a viable tank. Period. no u aren't tanking, u are avoiding. tanking means receiving damage, like armor/shield tanks do, and being able to repair it. if u receive enough damage u can be killed. speed is about avoiding damage, which kind of makes it a countermeasure (not an electronic one tho) :p wrong: in EVE terms, avoiding and/or sustaining damage can be considered as tank. --- planetary interaction idea!
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:21:00 - [134] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ariel Dawn Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters). This tactic relies on the nano-pilot to simply not pay attention to your maneuvers, and failing to use his "coast" to leave your web range the minute you snag them. A counter that relies on the opponent to screw up in his own response is a gamble, not a counter. Using similar tactics I've managed to beat back nano ships but I've never managed to do more that "scare them" in terms of damage (In a 1V1). Most of them seem to recognize the danger of both web and neuts and leave. In a larger gang (on the rare occasion anybody bothers to form a gang rather than just dock and wait for them to get bored) I've seen the occasional nano-kill from non nano ships but that was based entirely on the fact that the pilots chose not to escape and pressed their attacks - if you get enough ships it doesn't quite matter if there's a web or not, the nano ship is going to have a low transversal for somebody. In spite of what some people may gather from my posts, I'm not saying they need to be nerfed per se - speed is imporant in keeping the battlefield fluid. I'm saying that as they stand they are far to difficult to counter by anything other than a specialized ship (minnie recons), vastly superior numbers, or nano ships of your own. No, it doesn't rely on the pilot making a mistake. The nano-ships have to slow down (unless missile or drone based) to do any damage. There is no way a Vagabond/etc can counter being neuted and caught as their speed is not sufficient without MWD to escape any ship with a MWD. The only possible counter a nano-ship has to this is fitting a capacitor booster; but then that weakens their shield tank significantly as well and hence it is rarely done. Neuts, overloaded MWD and Web = 100% kill rate vs Vaga and associated nanoship that slow down that have cruiser-sized capacitors. Just to make it clear, there is no chance they can coast out of your web range because their MWD was never on when you hit them with neuts and will have no inertia once they get webbed (and they will). This is VERY easy to pull off against nano-ships and is one of the best points of ships like the Tempest since neuts are very easy to fit on it. Neuts overloaded DO NOT HAVE INCREASED RANGE!!! http://www.eve-online.com/itemdatabase/EN/shipequipment/engineeringequipment/energydestabilizer/heavy/12271.asp Unless all descriptions including in game are wrong. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:31:00 - [135] Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... 20+ repping gang will get all their drones killed by the nano gang and it will be a draw,the sniper gang might kill 1 but the nano boats will quickly get into range,20+ fighters dont work on nano gangs,fighters suck against cruisers unless the cruisers are sitting still. Ive seen these fights before,the only easy way to kill a nano gang is with a nano gang. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Mourn Navarre Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:34:00 - [136] My only problem with nano as I see it is the nanoing of ships that are not really designed for the purpose of speed. For example, the Ishtar. Now I have loved drone ships since Eve started (and the Vexor hull in particular) but when you nano an Ishtar, you don't really sacrifice much for your speed. You slap 2 LSE II and you got alot of shield HP to work with and you don't sacrifice your DPS because you are all drones so you have the DPS of a Dominix. You can also nano a Cerberus (not quite as effective as a Ishtar) and don't really sacrifice much DPS either and since they are missiles, you never actually miss. I'd like to see them really tweak the formulas for tracking is all while correcting this insane desire for more speed. They tweaked tracking before but it did not really have much of an effect. A bit more tweaking would be nice so that you aren't nanoing everything to insane speed levels and put 'speed tanking' more in the realm of minmatar ships (not that I like them, I think they are butt ugly).
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy Insurgency	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:39:00 - [137] They went so fast they broke the warp barrier and ended up in another dimension cue the sliders music.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:48:00 - [138] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... 20+ repping gang will get all their drones killed by the nano gang and it will be a draw,the sniper gang might kill 1 but the nano boats will quickly get into range,20+ fighters dont work on nano gangs,fighters suck against cruisers unless the cruisers are sitting still. Ive seen these fights before,the only easy way to kill a nano gang is with a nano gang. Set 1 or 2 Apocs with 6-8 Neuts in your gang. If even so you cannot kill them (except the ishtar that can stay at 40 km, and I agree its a problem as nanoship goes). Then you are pretty bad player. Even if they stay out of neut range then their transversal will be far lower and you can force them to bug out with lots of option that are effective at that range. If you force a gang that attacked you to run, you have wont! Stop thinking that you only win when you have enemies wrecks! If you get 1 or 2 wrecks form a nano gang be happy. because that is what a nano gang is about, IMPROVING chance of not loosing your own ship, and that is a valid way of play because you have to sacrifice other potentials in your ship to do it. The problem os nanoships is, too many of them flying around. Why that happens? Because whinners have whined so much that all other forms of fitting for a solo or very small group were nerfed to oblivion. Today that is the only way to have fun. Erasing the SOLOMOBILEs was the worse thing CCP ever made. You should be able to setup a ship so it can fight 2-3 other ships of inferior capability or size and win. But as of now, brute force means nothing. You can bring a T2 battleship pimped with faction gear and even so 5 t1 cruisers will kill you. So the only option to people that like to pimp their ships and fly to win, is using nanos. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:02:00 - [139] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ariel Dawn Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters). Drone based nano boats are potentially far more deadly, but I've never been TOO worried about them since I can just shoot down their guns should I have enough tank - but once again while I can STOP them I can't KILL them unless they sit there and LET me. Nano Sacs and nano Cerbs (and other nano missile boats) are the only nano boat that I really "fear" will kill me. Unlike the vaga they can do full damage when flying at max speed and unlike the ishtars I don't have any guns to shoot down. All the nano boats are vulnerable to the same things - cap warfare and web. Assuming it's a 1 v 1 the nano boat has no choice but to close inside the range of at least one of those. But, as I have stated before the problem is NOT that they are so deadly, it's that without specialized ships or a signifcantly larger force (or similarly equipped gang of your own) you can't really kill the things unless they make a mistake. Closing inside web range if they don't have to is a mistake. Not flying off when they realize the've been hit with a heavy neut is a mistake. By using these things I simply grant myself the opportunity to walk off the field with my ship intact. In the half a dozen encounters I've had with nano ships I've walked away alive 3 times thanks to having at least a neut loaded. I may be crazy to think that when you outgun and out tank someone by a significant margin you should be able to expect to win they day when you bother to fit at least a few of the available counters to their advantages but I guess I'm wrong - I'll just wait for that mythical nano pilot who DOESN'T bug out the minute I reveal I have a counter up my sleeve.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:11:00 - [140] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... 20+ repping gang will get all their drones killed by the nano gang and it will be a draw,the sniper gang might kill 1 but the nano boats will quickly get into range,20+ fighters dont work on nano gangs,fighters suck against cruisers unless the cruisers are sitting still. Ive seen these fights before,the only easy way to kill a nano gang is with a nano gang. Set 1 or 2 Apocs with 6-8 Neuts in your gang. If even so you cannot kill them (except the ishtar that can stay at 40 km, and I agree its a problem as nanoship goes). Then you are pretty bad player. Even if they stay out of neut range then their transversal will be far lower and you can force them to bug out with lots of option that are effective at that range. If you force a gang that attacked you to run, you have wont! Stop thinking that you only win when you have enemies wrecks! If you get 1 or 2 wrecks form a nano gang be happy. because that is what a nano gang is about, IMPROVING chance of not loosing your own ship, and that is a valid way of play because you have to sacrifice other potentials in your ship to do it. The problem os nanoships is, too many of them flying around. Why that happens? Because whinners have whined so much that all other forms of fitting for a solo or very small group were nerfed to oblivion. Today that is the only way to have fun. Erasing the SOLOMOBILEs was the worse thing CCP ever made. You should be able to setup a ship so it can fight 2-3 other ships of inferior capability or size and win. But as of now, brute force means nothing. You can bring a T2 battleship pimped with faction gear and even so 5 t1 cruisers will kill you. So the only option to people that like to pimp their ships and fly to win, is using nanos. Their called cap boosters,my friend puts these on all his nano ships and if neuted you can coast outside of neut range....And your 19 other gangmates will be killing the neut ships. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:12:00 - [141] Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... 20+ repping gang will get all their drones killed by the nano gang and it will be a draw,the sniper gang might kill 1 but the nano boats will quickly get into range,20+ fighters dont work on nano gangs,fighters suck against cruisers unless the cruisers are sitting still. Ive seen these fights before,the only easy way to kill a nano gang is with a nano gang. Set 1 or 2 Apocs with 6-8 Neuts in your gang. If even so you cannot kill them (except the ishtar that can stay at 40 km, and I agree its a problem as nanoship goes). Then you are pretty bad player. Even if they stay out of neut range then their transversal will be far lower and you can force them to bug out with lots of option that are effective at that range. If you force a gang that attacked you to run, you have wont! Stop thinking that you only win when you have enemies wrecks! If you get 1 or 2 wrecks form a nano gang be happy. because that is what a nano gang is about, IMPROVING chance of not loosing your own ship, and that is a valid way of play because you have to sacrifice other potentials in your ship to do it. The problem os nanoships is, too many of them flying around. Why that happens? Because whinners have whined so much that all other forms of fitting for a solo or very small group were nerfed to oblivion. Today that is the only way to have fun. Erasing the SOLOMOBILEs was the worse thing CCP ever made. You should be able to setup a ship so it can fight 2-3 other ships of inferior capability or size and win. But as of now, brute force means nothing. You can bring a T2 battleship pimped with faction gear and even so 5 t1 cruisers will kill you. So the only option to people that like to pimp their ships and fly to win, is using nanos. Forcing the enemy to yield the field without a loss is not a victory in Eve - a game where warfare is about attrition and inficlting ISK losses. If it were WoW then I'd be satisfied that "anyone you walk away from is a win" logic because killing them is just a minor inconvience there. When I fight a nano ship I have two potential scenarios laid out before me - either we both walk away or I don't walk away. This one single point is what irritates me - for me it's a life or death battle whose outcome is determined almost entirely on the presence of a module or two - for them it's a skirmish that they can walk away from the moment things aren't going well. When it's a nano gang I don't complain because let's face it - I wouldn't win the day against 5 NON nano Hacs anyway, unless they forgot to shoot.
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:14:00 - [142] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 07/02/2008 00:16:03 Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options. Nano sacs and ishtars move much slower then most other nano ships(ie vaga huggin etc...),now the problem was that a vaga sleipnir or any minmatar/caldari speed boat can orbit around you and even neuts do nothing,now with the falloff bonus its a start,you can now cut down the range of most minmatar speed tanks,kill the ishtars drones and neut amarrian type ones,the only ones left are missile spammers. Oh and if they have a huge gang of ishtars pack lots of smartbombs and they will cry. Neuts work against all nano-ships that are not cap-injected, no matter their race/weapon type. If they can't MWD and you can, you are going to close the distance and be able to put a web on them. Minmatar ships are the easiest to neut down because they have the smallest capacitors of all the races. You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are,so in this situation neuting does very little because the said ship just runs and the rest can just orbit and fire away....But with the new falloff stuff the conventional setup ships if used properly can make sure atleast 70% of the enemy vagabonds/other ac minny ships are useless. Its not the fix but its a start. Oh and ps,I was in nano gangs before and all of them packed cap boosters for this situation,so if the enemy ship closes the gap then you just get a quick hit of energy and off you go. Nanos are far far easier to kill when you're in a gang than solo, mainly due to the fact that because of the nature of gang combat, they're going to be entering web range of some ships regardless of how hard they try in order to do DPS. The problem here that makes them 'overpowered' is that people in big gangs are lemmings and cannot think for themselves. Performing actions that aren't what the FC says is usually frowned upon/has repercusions afterwards, so people only do what they are told. If in such a situation people started webbing/neuting every single nano-ship that came close (targets of opportunity), then a standard gang would completely steamroll most of the nano-gang and force the survivors to flee. Fitting a cap booster can save you against neuts, but your buffer tank becomes so pathetic that you will not survive any sort of firepower heading your way and likely will not have enough buffer to wear down a non-neut ship before you are forced to warp out.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:19:00 - [143] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ariel Dawn Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 07/02/2008 00:16:03 Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options. Nano sacs and ishtars move much slower then most other nano ships(ie vaga huggin etc...),now the problem was that a vaga sleipnir or any minmatar/caldari speed boat can orbit around you and even neuts do nothing,now with the falloff bonus its a start,you can now cut down the range of most minmatar speed tanks,kill the ishtars drones and neut amarrian type ones,the only ones left are missile spammers. Oh and if they have a huge gang of ishtars pack lots of smartbombs and they will cry. Neuts work against all nano-ships that are not cap-injected, no matter their race/weapon type. If they can't MWD and you can, you are going to close the distance and be able to put a web on them. Minmatar ships are the easiest to neut down because they have the smallest capacitors of all the races. You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are,so in this situation neuting does very little because the said ship just runs and the rest can just orbit and fire away....But with the new falloff stuff the conventional setup ships if used properly can make sure atleast 70% of the enemy vagabonds/other ac minny ships are useless. Its not the fix but its a start. Oh and ps,I was in nano gangs before and all of them packed cap boosters for this situation,so if the enemy ship closes the gap then you just get a quick hit of energy and off you go. Nanos are far far easier to kill when you're in a gang than solo, mainly due to the fact that because of the nature of gang combat, they're going to be entering web range of some ships regardless of how hard they try in order to do DPS. The problem here that makes them 'overpowered' is that people in big gangs are lemmings and cannot think for themselves. Performing actions that aren't what the FC says is usually frowned upon/has repercusions afterwards, so people only do what they are told. If in such a situation people started webbing/neuting every single nano-ship that came close (targets of opportunity), then a standard gang would completely steamroll most of the nano-gang and force the survivors to flee. Fitting a cap booster can save you against neuts, but your buffer tank becomes so pathetic that you will not survive any sort of firepower heading your way and likely will not have enough buffer to wear down a non-neut ship before you are forced to warp out. Getting into web range?Whilst your gang is zooming around this is possible but its also extremely easy to just coast out and run.If some idiot accidentally gets into web range with a nano ship then thats his own problem,not the problem to the group of ships as a whole. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:24:00 - [144] Larger gangs, when arranged correctly of course, do offer good defense against nano gangs. Not only because several people have the potential to snag them with a web (albiet if only for a few seconds) but also because the more spread out your gang is the better the odds are that a nano ship is flying with a low transversal compared to somebody. if I had better skills with guns I would probably try fighting them at longer ranged and the MWD the same direction as they do, but given my 5 million SP in missiles versus 1 million in guns, at this point I'm stuck with missiles for the forseeable future.
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:32:00 - [145] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... 20+ repping gang will get all their drones killed by the nano gang and it will be a draw,the sniper gang might kill 1 but the nano boats will quickly get into range,20+ fighters dont work on nano gangs,fighters suck against cruisers unless the cruisers are sitting still. Ive seen these fights before,the only easy way to kill a nano gang is with a nano gang. Set 1 or 2 Apocs with 6-8 Neuts in your gang. If even so you cannot kill them (except the ishtar that can stay at 40 km, and I agree its a problem as nanoship goes). Then you are pretty bad player. Even if they stay out of neut range then their transversal will be far lower and you can force them to bug out with lots of option that are effective at that range. If you force a gang that attacked you to run, you have wont! Stop thinking that you only win when you have enemies wrecks! If you get 1 or 2 wrecks form a nano gang be happy. because that is what a nano gang is about, IMPROVING chance of not loosing your own ship, and that is a valid way of play because you have to sacrifice other potentials in your ship to do it. The problem os nanoships is, too many of them flying around. Why that happens? Because whinners have whined so much that all other forms of fitting for a solo or very small group were nerfed to oblivion. Today that is the only way to have fun. Erasing the SOLOMOBILEs was the worse thing CCP ever made. You should be able to setup a ship so it can fight 2-3 other ships of inferior capability or size and win. But as of now, brute force means nothing. You can bring a T2 battleship pimped with faction gear and even so 5 t1 cruisers will kill you. So the only option to people that like to pimp their ships and fly to win, is using nanos. Their called cap boosters,my friend puts these on all his nano ships and if neuted you can coast outside of neut range....And your 19 other gangmates will be killing the neut ships. Again 20 man gangs is no way to compare stuff. a 20 man gang of battleships with 2 remote rep each is infinitely more powerful than a 20 man nano gang. On more common nano gangs size .. 5-6 a single apoc can neut whole gang ( I know I dot it form time to time, and cap injectors never saved them from the other 6 neuts that i fire stagered on them.). And very FEW nanoships use cap boost charges. because Overdrives eat all space you would have for them, specially if the ship uses ammo. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Infinity Enterprises Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:34:00 - [146] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Kagura Nikon Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... 20+ repping gang will get all their drones killed by the nano gang and it will be a draw,the sniper gang might kill 1 but the nano boats will quickly get into range,20+ fighters dont work on nano gangs,fighters suck against cruisers unless the cruisers are sitting still. Ive seen these fights before,the only easy way to kill a nano gang is with a nano gang. Set 1 or 2 Apocs with 6-8 Neuts in your gang. If even so you cannot kill them (except the ishtar that can stay at 40 km, and I agree its a problem as nanoship goes). Then you are pretty bad player. Even if they stay out of neut range then their transversal will be far lower and you can force them to bug out with lots of option that are effective at that range. If you force a gang that attacked you to run, you have wont! Stop thinking that you only win when you have enemies wrecks! If you get 1 or 2 wrecks form a nano gang be happy. because that is what a nano gang is about, IMPROVING chance of not loosing your own ship, and that is a valid way of play because you have to sacrifice other potentials in your ship to do it. The problem os nanoships is, too many of them flying around. Why that happens? Because whinners have whined so much that all other forms of fitting for a solo or very small group were nerfed to oblivion. Today that is the only way to have fun. Erasing the SOLOMOBILEs was the worse thing CCP ever made. You should be able to setup a ship so it can fight 2-3 other ships of inferior capability or size and win. But as of now, brute force means nothing. You can bring a T2 battleship pimped with faction gear and even so 5 t1 cruisers will kill you. So the only option to people that like to pimp their ships and fly to win, is using nanos. Forcing the enemy to yield the field without a loss is not a victory in Eve - a game where warfare is about attrition and inficlting ISK losses. If it were WoW then I'd be satisfied that "anyone you walk away from is a win" logic because killing them is just a minor inconvience there. When I fight a nano ship I have two potential scenarios laid out before me - either we both walk away or I don't walk away. This one single point is what irritates me - for me it's a life or death battle whose outcome is determined almost entirely on the presence of a module or two - for them it's a skirmish that they can walk away from the moment things aren't going well. When it's a nano gang I don't complain because let's face it - I wouldn't win the day against 5 NON nano Hacs anyway, unless they forgot to shoot. That is an issue of yours and your opinion on what victory is, not a problem of nano ships or the game. I get very satisfied myself when I win by holding field. ------------------------------------------------- If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:43:00 - [147] Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... or the best one yet: 5 rooks. --- planetary interaction idea!
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:02:00 - [148] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... or the best one yet: 5 rooks. Yeah but that works on anything that size...And once they dont jam oh the chaos that will form... This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:12:00 - [149] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... or the best one yet: 5 rooks. Yeah but that works on anything that size...And once they dont jam oh the chaos that will form... well, considering that the most unjammable nano-ship is actually the rapier, and considering how much sensor str vagabonds, ishtars, cerebus, and sacriledges have, I think that you're pretty set there --- planetary interaction idea!
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:41:00 - [150] Edited by: goodby4u on 07/02/2008 16:41:25 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: huxorator Originally by: goodby4u You didnt read my previous post,i said that solo nano boats arent overpowered but 20+ are Yeh they are. Like 20+ Remote Repping Gangs, like 20+ Sniper BS on sniper range, like 20+ fighters on you, .... or the best one yet: 5 rooks. Yeah but that works on anything that size...And once they dont jam oh the chaos that will form... well, considering that the most unjammable nano-ship is actually the rapier, and considering how much sensor str vagabonds, ishtars, cerebus, and sacriledges have, I think that you're pretty set there Perma jam is something people say to make them feel better about ewar,the cold hard truth is their all just % to how likely it is your going to jam,100% his sensor strength doesnt mean he cant lock. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:14:00 - [151] moderator is going to kill you all for massive pyramid quoting :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:19:00 - [152] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 07/02/2008 17:15:56 moderator is going to kill you all for massive pyramid quoting :P Quote: Their called cap boosters,my friend puts these on all his nano ships and if neuted you can coast outside of neut range....And your 19 other gangmates will be killing the neut ships. There are nano ships with enough midslots to fit cap boosters? Must be nice.. Vagabond needs an extra midslot, I guess. 1x mwd 1x 24km scram 1x cap booster 1x shield extender...So the problem is....? This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:22:00 - [153] ONE SIZE FITS ALL YOU AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE MODULES(webs) ARE THE PROBLEM
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:27:00 - [154] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 07/02/2008 17:15:56 moderator is going to kill you all for massive pyramid quoting :P Quote: Their called cap boosters,my friend puts these on all his nano ships and if neuted you can coast outside of neut range....And your 19 other gangmates will be killing the neut ships. There are nano ships with enough midslots to fit cap boosters? Must be nice.. Vagabond needs an extra midslot, I guess. 1x mwd 1x 24km scram 1x cap booster 1x shield extender...So the problem is....? If you were to fly a vagabond with 5500 shields, you wouldn't even be able to kill t1 ships. Any ship with missiles is going to heavily damage a vaga, which is why we can't take down drakes(for example). _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:28:00 - [155] Originally by: goodby4u Perma jam is something people say to make them feel better about ewar,the cold hard truth is their all just % to how likely it is your going to jam,100% his sensor strength doesnt mean he cant lock. perma-jam is not ability of jamming forever, but actually jamming the ship enough time during the fight, like I was able to do with a single racial in my falcon vs a raven. jammed during 1 minute, time enough to kill him. --- planetary interaction idea!
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:34:00 - [156] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin ONE SIZE FITS ALL YOU AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE MODULES(webs) ARE THE PROBLEM Only took six pages before someone actually got down to the real problem instead of bickering on the details on how it manifests itself. I applaud you.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:36:00 - [157] Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Dromidas Shadowmoon Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 07/02/2008 17:15:56 moderator is going to kill you all for massive pyramid quoting :P Quote: Their called cap boosters,my friend puts these on all his nano ships and if neuted you can coast outside of neut range....And your 19 other gangmates will be killing the neut ships. There are nano ships with enough midslots to fit cap boosters? Must be nice.. Vagabond needs an extra midslot, I guess. 1x mwd 1x 24km scram 1x cap booster 1x shield extender...So the problem is....? If you were to fly a vagabond with 5500 shields, you wouldn't even be able to kill t1 ships. Any ship with missiles is going to heavily damage a vaga, which is why we can't take down drakes(for example). With 20 nano ships with just about the same setup its not that bad,hell if your in trouble just rush way out of range and let your shields recharge. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Odium47	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:40:00 - [158] Learn to play the game and stop whinning about it like girls. There are hundreds of ways to counter a nano-ship...think carebears, think. All nano-ships have light tank !!!
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:46:00 - [159] Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: Marcus TheMartin ONE SIZE FITS ALL YOU AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE MODULES(webs) ARE THE PROBLEM Only took six pages before someone actually got down to the real problem instead of bickering on the details on how it manifests itself. I applaud you. I said that on page two in not so large text
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:49:00 - [160] Originally by: Odium47 Learn to play the game and stop whinning about it like girls. There are hundreds of ways to counter a nano-ship...think carebears, think. All nano-ships have light tank !!! Single one is easy,if your able to hit it then all it can do is orbit very very far away and hope you dont follow...Im complaining about nano gangs where the primary targetjust flees until they call another primary and then that one flees but all this is happening whilst the others are able to hit their primaries...And this is if the enemy can hit them. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:04:00 - [161] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: Trigos Trilobi Originally by: Marcus TheMartin ONE SIZE FITS ALL YOU AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE MODULES(webs) ARE THE PROBLEM Only took six pages before someone actually got down to the real problem instead of bickering on the details on how it manifests itself. I applaud you. I said that on page two in not so large text Ah. It just got drowned in all that fermented g*****jhuice and I missed it.
Haradgrim The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.02.07 19:54:00 - [162] First Nanos are fine, if you always get caught in a fast ship....whats the point? Also, not everyone in 0.0 uses nanos, there are alot of non-nano ships that function very well (i.e. non-minmatar Recons) Third, Heavy Neuts are an amazing counter to Nano, if you fly a nano you probably know what I'm talking about, if you don't try fitting one + a sensor booster with a lock time script.... (remote sensor boosting helps too). 2 seconds later you will have 1 very expensive brick directly infront of you. Forth, nano requires alot of skill, its also fun btw, a non-skilled nano pilot will be quickly a) blown up, and b) will never get any kills. Fifth, the fact that the OP included Machs on his list (or the cerb as a nano ship) shows that they probably don't know what they are talking about and its amazing their troll comment resulted in a thread this long..... Originally by: CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed
ezraniel Caldari An Eye For An Eye Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:07:00 - [163] I do want to make a remark about the whole Jamming vs Nano thing that came up here a second, thing with Jamming/EWar for instance is there is still a way to counter this, F.O.F. missiles. Nano gangs on the other hand have no secundary "kill" method besides slowing it down. Anyways, I don't want nano gangs/Ships nerfed to hell and back, what I do wish for is to give us a VIABLE counter, that doesn't include blobbing them with other nano ships with neuts or alike. Hell, a special long range webber to fit on 1 specific ship for instance would be good, but the idea of needing to blob your enemy with the same type ship, just to get a chance is a bit redicoules in my opinion. I don't really care HOW they are brought "in line" but nano's really need to recieve a decent counter to their speed abilities which doesn't involve a ****load of ships.
Yarhar	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:19:00 - [164] Originally by: ezraniel Hell, a special long range webber to fit on 1 specific ship for instance would be good, but the idea of needing to blob your enemy with the same type ship, just to get a chance is a bit redicoules in my opinion. Huggin.... Rapier...... overheating..... that new Electronic Attack frig... HIC bubble.....
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:26:00 - [165] Nanoships aren't overpowered. They're definitely not a lot of fun to fight, but there are plenty of ways to counter 'em (ways that will, in the case of a skilled nano pilot/gang end with the target(s) escaping 50% of the time.) Most of those ways have been covered here. Neuts are a biggy. I'll happily throw a nanocurse solo into multiple other nano cruisers...so long as there's not more than one huginn/rapier in attendance I imagine the majority of complaints about 10 man nanogangs come from folks who got more or less solo ganked by that 10 man gang. Something I didn't see mentioned just yet...is that a 10 man gang is going to gank you solo whether they're nano-fit or not. In the case of equivalent skill/pvp exerience and equivalent ship tonnage fights involving nano ships vs "other" ships, you'll likely end up with the slower gang turtling up with remote support (again, talking equivalent skill and pvp experience) under the essentially pathetic firepower of the nanogang...and the nanogang eventually bailing due to boredom/mwd's running their cap dry/slow ships popping their drones. No, it's not satisfying, which is why a lot of folks who aren't flying nanoships themselves won't engage a nanofleet. But it's not an all-powerful, unbeatable mechanic.
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.07 20:32:00 - [166] Originally by: Yarhar stuff stuff stuff HIC bubble..... eh? last time I checked, the HIC bubble only warpjams. unless you're refering to the penalties that are inflicted on the HIC's upon the activation. --- planetary interaction idea!
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.07 21:04:00 - [167] Originally by: Garreck Nanoships aren't overpowered. They're definitely not a lot of fun to fight, but there are plenty of ways to counter 'em (ways that will, in the case of a skilled nano pilot/gang end with the target(s) escaping 50% of the time.) Most of those ways have been covered here. Neuts are a biggy. I'll happily throw a nanocurse solo into multiple other nano cruisers...so long as there's not more than one huginn/rapier in attendance I imagine the majority of complaints about 10 man nanogangs come from folks who got more or less solo ganked by that 10 man gang. Something I didn't see mentioned just yet...is that a 10 man gang is going to gank you solo whether they're nano-fit or not. In the case of equivalent skill/pvp exerience and equivalent ship tonnage fights involving nano ships vs "other" ships, you'll likely end up with the slower gang turtling up with remote support (again, talking equivalent skill and pvp experience) under the essentially pathetic firepower of the nanogang...and the nanogang eventually bailing due to boredom/mwd's running their cap dry/slow ships popping their drones. No, it's not satisfying, which is why a lot of folks who aren't flying nanoships themselves won't engage a nanofleet. But it's not an all-powerful, unbeatable mechanic. My complaint isnt because I got"ganked",I know how to defend myself however I used to be in an allience(not tri)who used almost only nano ships,it just got on my nerves...Especially when its a nano vs nano fight because those groups were the only ones that killed us. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.07 21:07:00 - [168] Originally by: Haradgrim First Nanos are fine, if you always get caught in a fast ship....whats the point? Also, not everyone in 0.0 uses nanos, there are alot of non-nano ships that function very well (i.e. non-minmatar Recons) Third, Heavy Neuts are an amazing counter to Nano, if you fly a nano you probably know what I'm talking about, if you don't try fitting one + a sensor booster with a lock time script.... (remote sensor boosting helps too). 2 seconds later you will have 1 very expensive brick directly infront of you. Forth, nano requires alot of skill, its also fun btw, a non-skilled nano pilot will be quickly a) blown up, and b) will never get any kills. Fifth, the fact that the OP included Machs on his list (or the cerb as a nano ship) shows that they probably don't know what they are talking about and its amazing their troll comment resulted in a thread this long..... Actually the Mach makes a pretty amazing nano-ship, from what I've heard. I hate how unagile any BS is though so I never tried it, but I've heard a lot of mention of machs going 5k m/s and other ridiculous speeds for a BS :P _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.07 22:53:00 - [169] people complain about nano-gangs because they're not fun to fight. they can pick and choose their engagements, and if they have the advantage, they can lock you down and make you commit to the fight. on the other hand, short of doomsdaying them, there's no way to make them commit to a fight. as someone said earlier, it's like the old WCS. you could pick and choose your engagements and leave whenever you wanted. none of the people that defend nano setups are addressing that point i have no problem with being able to speed-tank, but if that means you can pick and choose your fights and be able to run away at any point, that's unbalanced. it's like the low-sec mothership gatecampers before the HIC. unless you have everything planned out months in advance with a gang built specifically for this one task, you can't make them commit to the fights they bring TRI comes to RK space all the time. when they just bring 15 man nano-gangs, we avoid them because it's not fun to fight them. when they brought a 90-man mixed fleet a few weeks back, everybody in geminate ganged up in a matter of minutes and fought them tooth and nail. it's that kind of fight that makes EVE fun and exciting. when you can't make your enemy commit to the fight, then it's just tedious and frustrating, and it becomes pretty much something that keeps you from ratting or mining
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 01:30:00 - [170] Originally by: Chomapuraku people complain about nano-gangs because they're not fun to fight. they can pick and choose their engagements, and if they have the advantage, they can lock you down and make you commit to the fight. on the other hand, short of doomsdaying them, there's no way to make them commit to a fight. as someone said earlier, it's like the old WCS. you could pick and choose your engagements and leave whenever you wanted. none of the people that defend nano setups are addressing that point i have no problem with being able to speed-tank, but if that means you can pick and choose your fights and be able to run away at any point, that's unbalanced. it's like the low-sec mothership gatecampers before the HIC. unless you have everything planned out months in advance with a gang built specifically for this one task, you can't make them commit to the fights they bring TRI comes to RK space all the time. when they just bring 15 man nano-gangs, we avoid them because it's not fun to fight them. when they brought a 90-man mixed fleet a few weeks back, everybody in geminate ganged up in a matter of minutes and fought them tooth and nail. it's that kind of fight that makes EVE fun and exciting. when you can't make your enemy commit to the fight, then it's just tedious and frustrating, and it becomes pretty much something that keeps you from ratting or mining QFT This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Syn G Gallente Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.08 03:14:00 - [171] Edited by: Syn G on 08/02/2008 03:18:15 well after reading only two pages and missing the constructive criticism, ill post a setup that people should try. this one requires 2 people at least, preferably same fits, but its relatively low SP and much cheaper than the nanos youll be shooting at. Anti Nano Dominix 2x LAR II Thermal Hardener II Kinetic Hardener II Explosive Hardener II 2x EANM II 5x Drone Nav Comp 4x Large Energy Transfer Array Drone Bay: as many Warrior IIs as you can fit. With drone nav 5 (my character was born with it) those drones are moving 12km/sec. Valkyrie IIs get over 6k/s, so they might be viable too. the energy transfer arrays keep each other's cap alive letting you run a 550(minimum) dps tank. forever. this is minus rigs by the way. feel free to add those. havent tried it yet (EFT ftw!) but it looks promising to me. the only problem is drone dps, but nano tanks are meh anyway and you've got A LOT of warrior IIs, should the nanoers decide to shoot them.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 03:32:00 - [172] Edited by: goodby4u on 08/02/2008 03:35:00 Originally by: Syn G Edited by: Syn G on 08/02/2008 03:18:15 well after reading only two pages and missing the constructive criticism, ill post a setup that people should try. this one requires 2 people at least, preferably same fits, but its relatively low SP and much cheaper than the nanos youll be shooting at. Anti Nano Dominix 2x LAR II Thermal Hardener II Kinetic Hardener II Explosive Hardener II 2x EANM II 5x Drone Nav Comp 4x Large Energy Transfer Array Drone Bay: as many Warrior IIs as you can fit. With drone nav 5 (my character was born with it) those drones are moving 12km/sec. Valkyrie IIs get over 6k/s, so they might be viable too. the energy transfer arrays keep each other's cap alive letting you run a 550(minimum) dps tank. forever. this is minus rigs by the way. feel free to add those. havent tried it yet (EFT ftw!) but it looks promising to me. the only problem is drone dps, but nano tanks are meh anyway and you've got A LOT of warrior IIs, should the nanoers decide to shoot them. This wont tank a nano group nor will it kill anything short of frigates...What was the reason for this...? Btw just ran the numbers,a vaga(not counting falloff,it would probably reduce it by 1/3 2/3,gets about 365 dps with not damage mods and barrage,so if you have about 3-4 of them they will not only have an easy time killing your drones but breaking your tanks. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Syn G Gallente Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.08 04:00:00 - [173] by itself it wont tank a nano group. thats why i said it requires 2 people. and if there was a nano group, hopefully its more than just 2 people that are countering. and 365 reduced by 2/3 is 120ish? that wont break a tank anytime soon. given that there are 10 vagas, if only 2 people came to counter them, then props to those 2 for being crazy enough to engage. now then 10 vagas vs 10 of these domis... or even 5... well... just an experiment ill have to try with some corpies. another note... if theyre shooting your drones, theyre not shooting you. if your drones pop, you field more. until you run out or they die/run away. thats 75 lights btw. 150 between 2 domis. and on and on.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.08 04:06:00 - [174] Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 08/02/2008 03:35:00 Originally by: Syn G Edited by: Syn G on 08/02/2008 03:18:15 well after reading only two pages and missing the constructive criticism, ill post a setup that people should try. this one requires 2 people at least, preferably same fits, but its relatively low SP and much cheaper than the nanos youll be shooting at. Anti Nano Dominix 2x LAR II Thermal Hardener II Kinetic Hardener II Explosive Hardener II 2x EANM II 5x Drone Nav Comp 4x Large Energy Transfer Array Drone Bay: as many Warrior IIs as you can fit. With drone nav 5 (my character was born with it) those drones are moving 12km/sec. Valkyrie IIs get over 6k/s, so they might be viable too. the energy transfer arrays keep each other's cap alive letting you run a 550(minimum) dps tank. forever. this is minus rigs by the way. feel free to add those. havent tried it yet (EFT ftw!) but it looks promising to me. the only problem is drone dps, but nano tanks are meh anyway and you've got A LOT of warrior IIs, should the nanoers decide to shoot them. This wont tank a nano group nor will it kill anything short of frigates...What was the reason for this...? Btw just ran the numbers,a vaga(not counting falloff,it would probably reduce it by 1/3 2/3,gets about 365 dps with not damage mods and barrage,so if you have about 3-4 of them they will not only have an easy time killing your drones but breaking your tanks. I'd like to see the vaga fit that does 365 with no damage mods and barrage.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 08:20:00 - [175] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: goodby4u Edited by: goodby4u on 08/02/2008 03:35:00 Originally by: Syn G Edited by: Syn G on 08/02/2008 03:18:15 well after reading only two pages and missing the constructive criticism, ill post a setup that people should try. this one requires 2 people at least, preferably same fits, but its relatively low SP and much cheaper than the nanos youll be shooting at. Anti Nano Dominix 2x LAR II Thermal Hardener II Kinetic Hardener II Explosive Hardener II 2x EANM II 5x Drone Nav Comp 4x Large Energy Transfer Array Drone Bay: as many Warrior IIs as you can fit. With drone nav 5 (my character was born with it) those drones are moving 12km/sec. Valkyrie IIs get over 6k/s, so they might be viable too. the energy transfer arrays keep each other's cap alive letting you run a 550(minimum) dps tank. forever. this is minus rigs by the way. feel free to add those. havent tried it yet (EFT ftw!) but it looks promising to me. the only problem is drone dps, but nano tanks are meh anyway and you've got A LOT of warrior IIs, should the nanoers decide to shoot them. This wont tank a nano group nor will it kill anything short of frigates...What was the reason for this...? Btw just ran the numbers,a vaga(not counting falloff,it would probably reduce it by 1/3 2/3,gets about 365 dps with not damage mods and barrage,so if you have about 3-4 of them they will not only have an easy time killing your drones but breaking your tanks. I'd like to see the vaga fit that does 365 with no damage mods and barrage. 5x 220s barrage 1x heavy missile II DG emp(lesser faction detracts like 5 dps)warrior IIs.. As for the tanking yes 2 domis can tank 2 vagas,but they cant ever kill them so another words they dont win,I wasnt complaining about 2 vagas i was complaining about 20 or so. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.08 08:44:00 - [176] Originally by: goodby4u Btw just ran the numbers,a vaga(not counting falloff,it would probably reduce it by 1/3 2/3,gets about 365 dps with not damage mods and barrage,so if you have about 3-4 of them they will not only have an easy time killing your drones but breaking your tanks. No vagabond will even get into web range of the dominix on purpose because when it does those 365 dps you mention get transformed into 0 in less than 10 seconds. So lets not keep sprouting the "not counting falloff" EFT warrior line cause its a very mentally deficient statement. Imagine the 3 vagabonds in orbit. One is neuted properly, webbed and droned. Chances for the other vagabonds of killing the dominix before the vaga is dead? 0. How much does 3650 raw dps (whats that, 80 points on armor per second?) hurt the dominix? Won't even scratch it. 2 vagabonds left. Rinse and repeat. If they are stupid enough to stick around. If they are smart they'll probably do something else. Of course most likely they wouldnt bother the domi unless they were severely bored. That's 3 to 1 odds and you killed one and made the rest run away. With a cheap fitted module in a low skill tier 1 ship vs 3 quite expensive and high skill requirement ships. Honestly quit the EFT loserage and learn how your "enemies" play or have to play. The vagabond is probably the worst of the pack precisely because it has to slow down to hit, because it needs to get close to do anything at all unlike the other nanos. Which is quite ironic given its supposed to be the "fast" ship but hey, it got nerfed by both heat, EA frigs, interceptor bonuses and by the drone rescoop. So at least it can still undock. And if you get jumped by a 12 man nano/recon gang you die like a man and move on.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.08 08:48:00 - [177] Edited by: Vanessa Vale on 08/02/2008 08:50:13 Originally by: goodby4u As for the tanking yes 2 domis can tank 2 vagas,but they cant ever kill them so another words they dont win,I wasnt complaining about 2 vagas i was complaining about 20 or so. I just posted an easy way for a single domi to do so. What do you think that would happen with your 2 domis if it got engaged by a gang of 20 battleships? Or battlecruisers? Even t1 crusiers? /facepalm
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.08 08:57:00 - [178] Originally by: goodby4u [/quote=gamesguy] I'd like to see the vaga fit that does 365 with no damage mods and barrage. 5x 220s barrage 1x heavy missile II DG emp(lesser faction detracts like 5 dps)warrior IIs.. As for the tanking yes 2 domis can tank 2 vagas,but they cant ever kill them so another words they dont win,I wasnt complaining about 2 vagas i was complaining about 20 or so. Its called falloff your eft nub, at 20km the vaga is nearly at max falloff, doing probably 50% of the gun dps(at max falloff it does 40% of the gun dps), so your magical 365dps vaga is now a 200 dps vaga.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 18:03:00 - [179] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: goodby4u [/quote=gamesguy] I'd like to see the vaga fit that does 365 with no damage mods and barrage. 5x 220s barrage 1x heavy missile II DG emp(lesser faction detracts like 5 dps)warrior IIs.. As for the tanking yes 2 domis can tank 2 vagas,but they cant ever kill them so another words they dont win,I wasnt complaining about 2 vagas i was complaining about 20 or so. Its called falloff your eft nub, at 20km the vaga is nearly at max falloff, doing probably 50% of the gun dps(at max falloff it does 40% of the gun dps), so your magical 365dps vaga is now a 200 dps vaga. 200 dps from 2 vagas =400 3=600 which means that domi cannot tank it. Seriously name calling solves nothing,I told you that I couldnt count falloff as I have never flown a vagabond,but I have fought them and i can tell you without neuts and mwds a domi WILL NOT kill a vagabond unless the pilot is stupid. As for getting in web range I know you cant,I find it rather insulting that you think im that stupid,I was using EFT to get a rough dps number then say in my post that you must subtract 2/3 1/3 dps depending on range due to falloff. What I find funny about this arguement is those domis have to commit whereas getting away for the vagas is as simple as mwding a short distance. Lastly,I recommend you wrap your minds around the fact that I was not complaining about solo vagas or even 2-5 vaga groups,but above that means dps doesnt matter for the nano group because they will break almost anobody's tank and if the **** hits the fan they can run whereas their enemies cannot. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.08 18:12:00 - [180] Game balance would be in big trouble if a lone tanked Dominix could kill 2 fast vages. Aside from sheer pilot stupidity, vagas should always be able to escape a dominix. That's because Vagas specialize at something which is Dominix' weakness. A weakness should have very few chances of defeating another ship's strength.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 18:22:00 - [181] Originally by: Ephemeron Game balance would be in big trouble if a lone tanked Dominix could kill 2 fast vages. Aside from sheer pilot stupidity, vagas should always be able to escape a dominix. That's because Vagas specialize at something which is Dominix' weakness. A weakness should have very few chances of defeating another ship's strength. But that advantage of the vagabond is the same weakness of most conventional setup ships. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.08 18:28:00 - [182] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ephemeron Game balance would be in big trouble if a lone tanked Dominix could kill 2 fast vages. Aside from sheer pilot stupidity, vagas should always be able to escape a dominix. That's because Vagas specialize at something which is Dominix' weakness. A weakness should have very few chances of defeating another ship's strength. But that advantage of the vagabond is the same weakness of most conventional setup ships. Vagabonds have weakness in both tank and damage output. Most ships have tanking and damage output as their strength. We have specialized recon ships that can double web others at 40 km easily. These recons are specifically designed to deal against specific enemy tactic - speed ships. And like many people already mentioned, we have other counters to vaga's strength. Basically, vaga has enough weaknesses to make up for its strength. The game is balanced.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 18:51:00 - [183] Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ephemeron Game balance would be in big trouble if a lone tanked Dominix could kill 2 fast vages. Aside from sheer pilot stupidity, vagas should always be able to escape a dominix. That's because Vagas specialize at something which is Dominix' weakness. A weakness should have very few chances of defeating another ship's strength. But that advantage of the vagabond is the same weakness of most conventional setup ships. Vagabonds have weakness in both tank and damage output. Most ships have tanking and damage output as their strength. We have specialized recon ships that can double web others at 40 km easily. These recons are specifically designed to deal against specific enemy tactic - speed ships. And like many people already mentioned, we have other counters to vaga's strength. Basically, vaga has enough weaknesses to make up for its strength. The game is balanced. Only one race can web at that range,this isnt a proper advantage for me because Icant fly minmatar as many other pilots cannot. I have never said that single nano ships are overpowered but large gangs of them are....Why do you think people always use nano gangs to roam with?Because most things end up being largely ineffective when they can only deal with 1 ship at a time. By the way,When i was in RZR nano cruisers were the only ships you guys flew,why was that? This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.02.08 18:58:00 - [184] Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ephemeron Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ephemeron Game balance would be in big trouble if a lone tanked Dominix could kill 2 fast vages. Aside from sheer pilot stupidity, vagas should always be able to escape a dominix. That's because Vagas specialize at something which is Dominix' weakness. A weakness should have very few chances of defeating another ship's strength. But that advantage of the vagabond is the same weakness of most conventional setup ships. Vagabonds have weakness in both tank and damage output. Most ships have tanking and damage output as their strength. We have specialized recon ships that can double web others at 40 km easily. These recons are specifically designed to deal against specific enemy tactic - speed ships. And like many people already mentioned, we have other counters to vaga's strength. Basically, vaga has enough weaknesses to make up for its strength. The game is balanced. Only one race can web at that range,this isnt a proper advantage for me because Icant fly minmatar as many other pilots cannot. I have never said that single nano ships are overpowered but large gangs of them are....Why do you think people always use nano gangs to roam with?Because most things end up being largely ineffective when they can only deal with 1 ship at a time. By the way,When i was in RZR nano cruisers were the only ships you guys flew,why was that? nerf blobs then? that would fix allot of stuff in this game tbh. --- planetary interaction idea!
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.08 19:05:00 - [185] Edited by: goodby4u on 08/02/2008 19:05:40 Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: goodby4u Originally by: Ephemeron Game balance would be in big trouble if a lone tanked Dominix could kill 2 fast vages. Aside from sheer pilot stupidity, vagas should always be able to escape a dominix. That's because Vagas specialize at something which is Dominix' weakness. A weakness should have very few chances of defeating another ship's strength. But that advantage of the vagabond is the same weakness of most conventional setup ships. Vagabonds have weakness in both tank and damage output. Most ships have tanking and damage output as their strength. We have specialized recon ships that can double web others at 40 km easily. These recons are specifically designed to deal against specific enemy tactic - speed ships. And like many people already mentioned, we have other counters to vaga's strength. Basically, vaga has enough weaknesses to make up for its strength. The game is balanced. Only one race can web at that range,this isnt a proper advantage for me because Icant fly minmatar as many other pilots cannot. I have never said that single nano ships are overpowered but large gangs of them are....Why do you think people always use nano gangs to roam with?Because most things end up being largely ineffective when they can only deal with 1 ship at a time. By the way,When i was in RZR nano cruisers were the only ships you guys flew,why was that? nerf blobs then? that would fix allot of stuff in this game tbh. Well actually yes in a way,but in medium engagements(10-20)nano gangs are much more efficiant then any other type of gang tbh.Oh and I had to kill some of the quotes because of the quoting pyramid This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.09 00:10:00 - [186] Originally by: goodby4u 200 dps from 2 vagas =400 3=600 which means that domi cannot tank it. Domi can easilly tank 600 dps as long as its got cap charges. Quote: Seriously name calling solves nothing,I told you that I couldnt count falloff as I have never flown a vagabond,but I have fought them and i can tell you without neuts and mwds a domi WILL NOT kill a vagabond unless the pilot is stupid. Yes because only minmatar ships have falloff. Quote: As for getting in web range I know you cant,I find it rather insulting that you think im that stupid,I was using EFT to get a rough dps number then say in my post that you must subtract 2/3 1/3 dps depending on range due to falloff. What I find funny about this arguement is those domis have to commit whereas getting away for the vagas is as simple as mwding a short distance. The domi doesnt have to commit. Its called de-aggressing and then jumping/docking. Battleships(especially in RR gangs) do this all the time. Quote: Lastly,I recommend you wrap your minds around the fact that I was not complaining about solo vagas or even 2-5 vaga groups,but above that means dps doesnt matter for the nano group because they will break almost anobody's tank and if the ** hits the fan they can run whereas their enemies cannot. You will never break an RR gang with equivelent numbers to your nanogang. And when the ** hits the fan everybody deaggresses and jump/dock. You dont have to commite either. Same for snipers, which just kill tacklers/mwd out of bubble and warp if things turn bad. Same for EW ships, which just neut/ecm/damp off the point and warp, same for any battleship with a reasonable tank which can just de-agro and jump/dock. Nearly every single tactic in eve is built around not commiting to fights. You're delusional if you think only nanoships avoid commiting to fights. Every tactic does this with varying degrees of success, each tactic has its own upsides and downsides. For example, snipers rely on range to avoid commiting to fights(or indeed, to avoid taking damage at all, kinda like nanogangs huh?). Why is this more acceptable to you than nanogangs?
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.09 01:09:00 - [187] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: goodby4u 200 dps from 2 vagas =400 3=600 which means that domi cannot tank it. Domi can easilly tank 600 dps as long as its got cap charges. Quote: Seriously name calling solves nothing,I told you that I couldnt count falloff as I have never flown a vagabond,but I have fought them and i can tell you without neuts and mwds a domi WILL NOT kill a vagabond unless the pilot is stupid. Yes because only minmatar ships have falloff. Quote: As for getting in web range I know you cant,I find it rather insulting that you think im that stupid,I was using EFT to get a rough dps number then say in my post that you must subtract 2/3 1/3 dps depending on range due to falloff. What I find funny about this arguement is those domis have to commit whereas getting away for the vagas is as simple as mwding a short distance. The domi doesnt have to commit. Its called de-aggressing and then jumping/docking. Battleships(especially in RR gangs) do this all the time. Quote: Lastly,I recommend you wrap your minds around the fact that I was not complaining about solo vagas or even 2-5 vaga groups,but above that means dps doesnt matter for the nano group because they will break almost anobody's tank and if the ** hits the fan they can run whereas their enemies cannot. You will never break an RR gang with equivelent numbers to your nanogang. And when the ** hits the fan everybody deaggresses and jump/dock. You dont have to commite either. Same for snipers, which just kill tacklers/mwd out of bubble and warp if things turn bad. Same for EW ships, which just neut/ecm/damp off the point and warp, same for any battleship with a reasonable tank which can just de-agro and jump/dock. Nearly every single tactic in eve is built around not commiting to fights. You're delusional if you think only nanoships avoid commiting to fights. Every tactic does this with varying degrees of success, each tactic has its own upsides and downsides. For example, snipers rely on range to avoid commiting to fights(or indeed, to avoid taking damage at all, kinda like nanogangs huh?). Why is this more acceptable to you than nanogangs? It is the ease of which they can avoid a fight, or at a whim disengage and burn away. Anyone and any ship with a mix of luck and a health helping of skill stands a chance to get out of a fight if need be. To get out of a fight for a nano ship is not difficult, pick a direction and burn (usally pointed at a celestial object). It's just about as bad as the WCS of old.
Ivan Kinsikor Amarr International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.09 01:44:00 - [188] In reponse to the mach comment: Last gang op into Utopia we saw a macharial going over 10km a second. People will nano damn near anything these days lawl. Killing is business and business is good.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.09 02:43:00 - [189] Originally by: Ivan Kinsikor In reponse to the mach comment: Last gang op into Utopia we saw a macharial going over 10km a second. People will nano damn near anything these days lawl. 10km machs are useless in combat, they're only used to bump things(like capitals) out of dock range.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.09 02:44:00 - [190] Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/02/2008 02:44:21 Quote: It is the ease of which they can avoid a fight, or at a whim disengage and burn away. Anyone and any ship with a mix of luck and a health helping of skill stands a chance to get out of a fight if need be. To get out of a fight for a nano ship is not difficult, pick a direction and burn (usally pointed at a celestial object). It's just about as bad as the WCS of old. Which doesnt work if you're webbed or neuted. To get out of a fight for a plated BS is not difficult, turn off all your guns and recall your drone, then spam the jump/dock button till you do so. Its just about as bad as the WCS of the old.
Opertone Caldari Rulers Of Mankind	Posted - 2008.02.09 03:07:00 - [191] it is not hard to kill a nano ship the real problem is that nano fitted gangs are very risk averse, they prefer to run away and they only pick-off easy targets. Nano pilots prefer to go into hostile space and annoy people forever, because nothing can really catch the nano ships. If someone brings in a decent counter then the nano ships will be always avoiding the fight, unless they make a mistake the nano ships can't be taken down... they will run away and warp off. ishatar uses drones to fight, it is very hard to catch a ship like this even if you have 3-5 interceptors in the gang. The problem with nano ships is more in their run-away nature. Hit and run has always been considered lame and overpowered.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.09 03:15:00 - [192] Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/02/2008 02:44:21 Quote: It is the ease of which they can avoid a fight, or at a whim disengage and burn away. Anyone and any ship with a mix of luck and a health helping of skill stands a chance to get out of a fight if need be. To get out of a fight for a nano ship is not difficult, pick a direction and burn (usally pointed at a celestial object). It's just about as bad as the WCS of old. Which doesnt work if you're webbed or neuted. To get out of a fight for a plated BS is not difficult, turn off all your guns and recall your drone, then spam the jump/dock button till you do so. Its just about as bad as the WCS of the old. yes that works if your on a gate or on a station if you can hopefully out tank the incoming damage, but what if your in open space? at an asteroid belt? A nano can burn away from any place in eve. Not like a WCS that only works on a gate or station.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.09 03:51:00 - [193] Originally by: UGLYUGLY Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/02/2008 02:44:21 Quote: It is the ease of which they can avoid a fight, or at a whim disengage and burn away. Anyone and any ship with a mix of luck and a health helping of skill stands a chance to get out of a fight if need be. To get out of a fight for a nano ship is not difficult, pick a direction and burn (usally pointed at a celestial object). It's just about as bad as the WCS of old. Which doesnt work if you're webbed or neuted. To get out of a fight for a plated BS is not difficult, turn off all your guns and recall your drone, then spam the jump/dock button till you do so. Its just about as bad as the WCS of the old. yes that works if your on a gate or on a station if you can hopefully out tank the incoming damage, but what if your in open space? at an asteroid belt? A nano can burn away from any place in eve. Not like a WCS that only works on a gate or station. When are you at a belt? When you're ratting, it makes no difference what your opponents are in if you're in a ratting ship. Same for open space, unless you just got probed out because you werent paying attention and doing warps from SS to SS, at which point you will get ganked by a gang anyways... Most pvp happen at gates, stations, and pos.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:12:00 - [194] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: goodby4u 200 dps from 2 vagas =400 3=600 which means that domi cannot tank it. Domi can easilly tank 600 dps as long as its got cap charges. Quote: Seriously name calling solves nothing,I told you that I couldnt count falloff as I have never flown a vagabond,but I have fought them and i can tell you without neuts and mwds a domi WILL NOT kill a vagabond unless the pilot is stupid. Yes because only minmatar ships have falloff. Quote: As for getting in web range I know you cant,I find it rather insulting that you think im that stupid,I was using EFT to get a rough dps number then say in my post that you must subtract 2/3 1/3 dps depending on range due to falloff. What I find funny about this arguement is those domis have to commit whereas getting away for the vagas is as simple as mwding a short distance. The domi doesnt have to commit. Its called de-aggressing and then jumping/docking. Battleships(especially in RR gangs) do this all the time. Quote: Lastly,I recommend you wrap your minds around the fact that I was not complaining about solo vagas or even 2-5 vaga groups,but above that means dps doesnt matter for the nano group because they will break almost anobody's tank and if the ** hits the fan they can run whereas their enemies cannot. You will never break an RR gang with equivelent numbers to your nanogang. And when the ** hits the fan everybody deaggresses and jump/dock. You dont have to commite either. Same for snipers, which just kill tacklers/mwd out of bubble and warp if things turn bad. Same for EW ships, which just neut/ecm/damp off the point and warp, same for any battleship with a reasonable tank which can just de-agro and jump/dock. Nearly every single tactic in eve is built around not commiting to fights. You're delusional if you think only nanoships avoid commiting to fights. Every tactic does this with varying degrees of success, each tactic has its own upsides and downsides. For example, snipers rely on range to avoid commiting to fights(or indeed, to avoid taking damage at all, kinda like nanogangs huh?). Why is this more acceptable to you than nanogangs? 1)his setup could only tank 560. 2)well,my zealot doesnt have 22km of falloff,I fight in optimal not falloff. 3)has to be at a gate/station at 0,the nano gang can run anywhere. 4)same as last,aslo a gang of 20 nano ships may or may not break the said tank but under no circumstances do they need to fight that group in the first place...The RR gang cannot choose their fights as easily as the nano boats. And as for the snipers with vagas able to go 10km/sec it only takes 15 seconds to get there. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:34:00 - [195] Originally by: Gamesguy Originally by: UGLYUGLY Originally by: Gamesguy Edited by: Gamesguy on 09/02/2008 02:44:21 Quote: It is the ease of which they can avoid a fight, or at a whim disengage and burn away. Anyone and any ship with a mix of luck and a health helping of skill stands a chance to get out of a fight if need be. To get out of a fight for a nano ship is not difficult, pick a direction and burn (usally pointed at a celestial object). It's just about as bad as the WCS of old. Which doesnt work if you're webbed or neuted. To get out of a fight for a plated BS is not difficult, turn off all your guns and recall your drone, then spam the jump/dock button till you do so. Its just about as bad as the WCS of the old. yes that works if your on a gate or on a station if you can hopefully out tank the incoming damage, but what if your in open space? at an asteroid belt? A nano can burn away from any place in eve. Not like a WCS that only works on a gate or station. When are you at a belt? When you're ratting, it makes no difference what your opponents are in if you're in a ratting ship. Same for open space, unless you just got probed out because you werent paying attention and doing warps from SS to SS, at which point you will get ganked by a gang anyways... Most pvp happen at gates, stations, and pos. You seem to be envisioning a very perfect world for all these other ships to escape. Not every person is just sitting on a gate, what if you jumped through? your already about 15km off the gate. what if you get hit by a bubble? you god knows how far from the gate or station. What is a platted battleship going to do then? fight and commit. A nano can burn to the gate if it jumps into a camp, more times than not, it's going to be back on the gate before most ships can even get a lock. They can burn out of a bubble in no time and get safe. They in most situations get away and get safe. I have no illusions why my FC's ask for nano only gangs when they want to roam or plan ops. It's beacuse they can get away from anything they don't like the look of and engage when ever they feel like it.
Sauromugue	Posted - 2008.02.09 04:41:00 - [196] Originally by: UGLYUGLY have no illusions why my FC's ask for nano only gangs when they want to roam or plan ops. Because they're not fat, slow, and don't take forever to align and warp out, putting everyone at risk? Because it's the right thing to do when you roam? You know, moving, something non-nano ships aren't good at. Every time someone takes a BS or BC out on a roaming op I can't help but roll my eyes.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.09 05:27:00 - [197] Originally by: Sauromugue Originally by: UGLYUGLY have no illusions why my FC's ask for nano only gangs when they want to roam or plan ops. Because they're not fat, slow, and don't take forever to align and warp out, putting everyone at risk? Because it's the right thing to do when you roam? You know, moving, something non-nano ships aren't good at. Every time someone takes a BS or BC out on a roaming op I can't help but roll my eyes. Exactly other ships cannot get away like a nano. Putting ships at the risk of combat they would rather just run away from. But running away is the current problem with combat, it's just to easy to do with a nano boat.
Chomapuraku Templar Republic R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.09 05:58:00 - [198] since no one addressed the question, i'll ask it again: is it balanced that nano pilots can pick and choose their fights? will some nano-supporter please answer this? yes, i know full well that roaming gangs require the ability to move quickly. yes, the ability to speed-tank adds variety and unpredictability to combat. yes, i know full well that nano setups do less dps than logistics ships (so little, that they're useless for roaming gangs) i know that they have paper-thin tanks that can be broken by a sneeze when they're webbed and neuted (which is kind of a moot point when you can't be hit) everyone that says "it's easy to kill a nano, you just have to overheat your neuts and webs" is either full of ** or doesn't know what they're talking about. yes, you can neut them, but that only works if they're at the end of their MWD cycle and can't re-align and warp out (a smart nano pilot stays out of neut range.) yes, you can web them, but when you web them, you have to wait for their momentum to run out, and you can only do it with minnie ewar ships, and at that range, they have time to re-align and GTFO do you see a pattern here? when you neut an active-tanked ship, they can't sustain their weapons or their cap and they die. a passive-tanked ship either has no DPS (high shield recharge or a **-ton of armor) or will eventually pop from not being able to recharge, if you scram/neut/web it. gank mega? neut it down, and it can't shoot you. blockade runner? insta-target before it clocks and HIC it, or chase it down while it cloaks. remote-repping gang? ECM burst em down and they fall like a ton of bricks. mixed gang? pick and choose your tactics, keep getting popped, and keep coming back. nano gang? get your whole fleet in huginns, rapiers, or minnie ewar frigs with dual overheated webs, then pray that they don't hit scanner before warping in, or don't bug out as soon as you jump through the gate or de-cloak. a smart nano-pilot can smell a fight he can't win from a mile away and power away from it. now here's the kicker: there are no other combat setups with that luxury. it's not fun to fight, because you can't make them commit.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:19:00 - [199] Originally by: Chomapuraku everyone that says "it's easy to kill a nano, you just have to overheat your neuts and webs" is either full of ** or doesn't know what they're talking about. yes, you can neut them, but that only works if they're at the end of their MWD cycle and can't re-align and warp out (a smart nano pilot stays out of neut range.) Just to point out that the vagabond does have to turn off the mwd to do any kind of damage. But this discussion is a bit silly, because next someone will be saying that a gang of 20 cetors jumped them at a belt and they couldn't do a thing, they don't commit, etc etc etc. Originally by:** Chomapuraku a smart nano-pilot can smell a fight he can't win from a mile away and power away from it. now here's the kicker: there are no other combat setups with that luxury. it's not fun to fight, because you can't make them commit. A rifter can do so too. Your point? I have no enjoyment in slugfests, probably in part because once it gets started its either long range sniping or close combat where you will be webbed. Even in a theoretical 1v1 you can't keep out of range forever because they have more cap boosters than you do due to cargo space and they'll eventually catch up. And if you do and they start thinking they might lose, they'll happily float towards the gate and deagress. Foul play! They didn't commit!
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.09 07:30:00 - [200] Since your post is so full of fail, this will take a bit. Originally by: Chomapuraku everyone that says "it's easy to kill a nano, you just have to overheat your neuts and webs" is either full of ** or doesn't know what they're talking about. No, they just offered you invaluable advice on how to counter a given tactic. If you don't want to use it, that's your problem. Originally by:** Chomapuraku yes, you can neut them, but that only works if they're at the end of their MWD cycle and can't re-align and warp out The most commonly seen (and whined about) nanoship, the Vagabond, cannot effecively apply meaningful DPS while MWDing. Which means, for the purposes of this argument, that it is at the end of it's MWD cycle and will not be warping off. (You did remember to bring a point, didn't you?) Originally by: Chomapuraku (a smart nano pilot stays out of neut range.) The vast majority of nano pilots don't fit faction points. If he's not in neut range, you aren't in scram range. Warp out. Originally by: Chomapuraku yes, you can web them, but when you web them, you have to wait for their momentum to run out, That would be only if you catch them with a MWD on. Originally by: Comapuraku and you can only do it with minnie ewar ships, and at that range, they have time to re-align and GTFO No. Minmatar Recons/EAS are not the only way to apply a web, you just have to get creative. (I'll even give you a hint. It's a certain type of module used mostly on a certain type of ship that is larger than a cruiser but smaller than a battleship.) Originally by: Chomapuraku do you see a pattern here? Yep. I see a lot of counters offered, and people complaining that they're too hard or unrealistic to pull off because it requires thinking or modifying their uber ratting setup. Originally by: Chomapuraku blockade runner? insta-target before it clocks and HIC it, or chase it down while it cloaks. First of all, what does a blockade runner have to do with PvP? Secondly, the only way to target one before it cloaks is if the pilot has a negative IQ and chills out for a couple seconds before hitting his cloak. Originally by: Chomapuraku nano gang? get your whole fleet in huginns, rapiers, or minnie ewar frigs with dual overheated webs, Again, while those are all good counters, they are not the only way. You have to think a bit, think of it as Darwinism in action. Originally by: Chomapuraku a smart nano-pilot can smell a fight he can't win from a mile away and power away from it. And yet dozens of them die every day.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:41:00 - [201] I personally have no problem with captors. They are basically mobile points and cheap enough people love to throw them into the fire. Nano's are not over powered in combat. I love fighting them if they will fight, it's as much fun as fighting other ship types. The problem is you show your cards to one member in that nano gang and they are all burning for safety. The fights over and the smack from 400km away begins. I know many ways to deal with nano ships, but non of them work at 350+Km.
Droneo Queen Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:43:00 - [202] just freaking remove the race "Minmatar" from the game please
Parfait M North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.09 08:56:00 - [203] Originally by: Dianeces Since your post is so full of fail, this will take a bit. Originally by: Chomapuraku everyone that says "it's easy to kill a nano, you just have to overheat your neuts and webs" is either full of ** or doesn't know what they're talking about. No, they just offered you invaluable advice on how to counter a given tactic. If you don't want to use it, that's your problem. Originally by:** Chomapuraku yes, you can neut them, but that only works if they're at the end of their MWD cycle and can't re-align and warp out The most commonly seen (and whined about) nanoship, the Vagabond, cannot effecively apply meaningful DPS while MWDing. Which means, for the purposes of this argument, that it is at the end of it's MWD cycle and will not be warping off. (You did remember to bring a point, didn't you?) Originally by: Chomapuraku (a smart nano pilot stays out of neut range.) The vast majority of nano pilots don't fit faction points. If he's not in neut range, you aren't in scram range. Warp out. Originally by: Chomapuraku yes, you can web them, but when you web them, you have to wait for their momentum to run out, That would be only if you catch them with a MWD on. Originally by: Comapuraku and you can only do it with minnie ewar ships, and at that range, they have time to re-align and GTFO No. Minmatar Recons/EAS are not the only way to apply a web, you just have to get creative. (I'll even give you a hint. It's a certain type of module used mostly on a certain type of ship that is larger than a cruiser but smaller than a battleship.) Originally by: Chomapuraku do you see a pattern here? Yep. I see a lot of counters offered, and people complaining that they're too hard or unrealistic to pull off because it requires thinking or modifying their uber ratting setup. Originally by: Chomapuraku blockade runner? insta-target before it clocks and HIC it, or chase it down while it cloaks. First of all, what does a blockade runner have to do with PvP? Secondly, the only way to target one before it cloaks is if the pilot has a negative IQ and chills out for a couple seconds before hitting his cloak. Originally by: Chomapuraku nano gang? get your whole fleet in huginns, rapiers, or minnie ewar frigs with dual overheated webs, Again, while those are all good counters, they are not the only way. You have to think a bit, think of it as Darwinism in action. Originally by: Chomapuraku a smart nano-pilot can smell a fight he can't win from a mile away and power away from it. And yet dozens of them die every day. Don't you just LOVE when people put everything you want to say, but are too lazy to post, in one neat reply? ------- Drink apple juice; OJ will KILL YOU!
Noxious IV Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.09 11:59:00 - [204] Originally by: Droneo Queen just freaking remove the race "Minmatar" from the game please Cause minnie are the best race and gallente are the worst right???? To people who say nanoships are overpowered, try flying a vaga solo against a small gang. Its harder than it looks. One mistake and your quad webbed and wtdzomgbbq'd. This thread is pointless.
Vanessa Vale	Posted - 2008.02.09 13:03:00 - [205] Originally by: UGLYUGLY I know many ways to deal with nano ships, but non of them work at 350+Km. Look, you are wrong. You may not like the ships, they certainly don't fight into patterns that you are used to and that's discomforting and frustrating, I'm sure. I know many ways to deal with amarr but none of them work at 350km either. They sit in their golden ships taunting me so I fly towards the light and get toasted by the shiny lasers. If you wanna warp on them you have covert ops & recons. At 350 km+ you can warp to them. Or to some other point with snipers and alpha one of them with not a lot of problem if you have a decent gang. Of course they will run away. Say you are in a bs vs bs engagements and then out of the blue one side drops on you a nyx. The odds that you'll stay after, as you say, they have shown their cards is nil. People don't just come to 0m and roll over and die. If you want lots of kills you should probably go play doom for a bit and come back. Or just train for a titan and DD.
Drek Grapper Minmatar	Posted - 2008.02.09 14:05:00 - [206] Nano ships can be chased off but not very easliy killed...hence the fragile little ego is left bruised and unfulfilled. There is no kill to boast about and no stroking of the epeen to be had. Awww. Bruised ego cannot stand the fact that nano pilot burns off into the distance with a smile and a chuckle... Too bad. It happens. Get over it. You chased him off...Good thing you didn't loose your ship, bad thing, your ego feels a little neglected. There there... Go gank a noob...you will feel better in no time. --------- I had something important to put here but CCP decided in thier infinite wisdom to keep this space as small as possible. Thanks.
Gunner Chick	Posted - 2008.02.09 17:29:00 - [207] Edited by: Gunner Chick on 09/02/2008 17:29:30 All of you that think nano'ing is a viable tank need to realize one thing. CCP doesnt care what you think. If you guys keep using them at the level they are being used...LOL at you when CCP starts swingin'. I dont have to prove a da%$ thing. History alone is enough proof of what happens when morons jump on a bandwagon.
GateScout	Posted - 2008.02.09 18:05:00 - [208] There is a difference between a nano ship and a nano gang. Nano ships are fine and have a very specific purpose. A nano gang, as long as the pilots aren't complete idiots, are generally untouchable. They are used very effectively. However, they have reached the 'unbalanced' phase. CCP is going to nerf them....it's inevitable. Get used to that idea.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.09 20:21:00 - [209] Originally by: Noxious IV Originally by: Droneo Queen just freaking remove the race "Minmatar" from the game please Cause minnie are the best race and gallente are the worst right???? To people who say nanoships are overpowered, try flying a vaga solo against a small gang. Its harder than it looks. One mistake and your quad webbed and wtdzomgbbq'd. This thread is pointless. Wow, this certainly doesn't help your case. I understand completely when I get owned by a nano gang - I really don't expect to win when the odds are stacked against me. But any ship that lets me take on a small gang with a real hope of winning might just be completely awesome. I think I am finished complaining about nano ships and trying to justify why I feel that way. Clearly my experiences are entirely wrong and I'm just not "webbing/neuting/shooting/mwding" right. I have come to the conclusion that nano ships are in fact NOT overpowered, they simply managed to tip the balance scale on a single attribute so far that it makes them seem that way.
UGLYUGLY	Posted - 2008.02.10 00:56:00 - [210] Originally by: Vanessa Vale Originally by: UGLYUGLY I know many ways to deal with nano ships, but non of them work at 350+Km. Look, you are wrong. You may not like the ships, they certainly don't fight into patterns that you are used to and that's discomforting and frustrating, I'm sure. I know many ways to deal with amarr but none of them work at 350km either. They sit in their golden ships taunting me so I fly towards the light and get toasted by the shiny lasers. If you wanna warp on them you have covert ops & recons. At 350 km+ you can warp to them. Or to some other point with snipers and alpha one of them with not a lot of problem if you have a decent gang. Of course they will run away. Say you are in a bs vs bs engagements and then out of the blue one side drops on you a nyx. The odds that you'll stay after, as you say, they have shown their cards is nil. People don't just come to 0m and roll over and die. If you want lots of kills you should probably go play doom for a bit and come back. Or just train for a titan and DD. "your wrong" doesn't make a very good argument. And I am quite sure that if you have a armor tanked amarr ship sitting 20km off of you pointed or bubbled it didn't armor tank it way out to 350km away from you.
Syn G Gallente Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.02.10 01:02:00 - [211] i dont believe theyre overpowered. someone had to have the ingenuity to say, hey screw tanking and dps, the things that everyone else uses to survive, im gonna fly so fast its ridiculous. props to whoever came up with that idea. i do believe, however, that nano gangs have an advantage. being able to run away from a fight turned sour should be a rare ability. maybe instead of stacking bonuses just give nanos and OD's some fitting requirements. enough to where youd be hard pressed for any kind of dps or mwd sustainability. this way there would be as much risk in nanoing as there is in tanking.
Waga Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.02.10 18:12:00 - [212] a 5 vagabond + 3 rapier Nano gang is pretty overpowered and instopable to catch ..if u dare
ArmyOfMe Exotic Dancers Club Scalar Federation	Posted - 2008.02.10 18:17:00 - [213] Originally by: xHalcyonx Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. Snakes are fine, you get what you pay for.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:02:00 - [214] Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: xHalcyonx Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. Snakes are fine, you get what you pay for. How much do I have to pay for a crystal set that makes my shield tank invulnerable without the person resorting to neuting me to death again?
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.10 21:25:00 - [215] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: ArmyOfMe Originally by: xHalcyonx Really, nano ships are okay. Snakes are NOT okay. Snakes are fine, you get what you pay for. How much do I have to pay for a crystal set that makes my shield tank invulnerable without the person resorting to neuting me to death again? I'll let you know when I find a Snake set that does the same.
Patri Andari Caldari	Posted - 2008.02.10 23:21:00 - [216] Hello, Firstly I admit I am no veteran of PVP, but I have noticed that there is an obvious absence of a mid slot missile enhancement mod (discounting painters of course). It is on topic just stay with me. Imagine a scripted mid slot mod that enhanced the flight speed of a missile while reducing burn time, to avoid range abuse. Another script that enhanced explosion velocity or explosion radius. Would that not solve 2 problems at once? Any ship using such a mod could, with enough of said mods, fire missiles that could intercept nano ships while giving up critical tanking mid slots. It would also give missile ships (read Caldari) a critical support role in gangs as a counter to nano. I have not fully thought this through, I leave that for you Gods of PVP, but it seems like a simple solution that does not break anything. Other than Torp Raven, no missile boats are thought to have imba dps. In the case of a missile speed script (as opposed to a explosion radius or explosion velocity script) the missiles do the same exact damage they always have. Imagine your average Drake using such mods. It would sacrifice tank to add two such mods to the mids (lets say it took that many to catch up to a nano boat) thus sacrificing tank for a chance to hit a nano ship for full or near full damage. Not enough to hurt most conventionally tanked HACs, but enough to spank any nano HAC that refuses to bug out. The Drake would likely be called primary, BUT it should be able to take out a few nanos coming in for the kill. It gives less incentive to a nano gang to assume that they will always escape without loss, it boost missile boats as a support to small gangs, it creates a mod that is needed for balance (see tracking computers), and it avoids the nerf bat. Flame expected but you can adjust this anyway you want for balance. Better to invent or boost counters then swing a nerf bat. My 2 isks. Peace P.S. Imagine they primary the Drake and it is not a nano killer fit but a traditional uber-passive tanked drake? hmmm

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