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So when are nano's gone?

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goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:21:00 - [91] Whilst for even single targets conventional setups usually leaves a pilot frustrated when fighting a nano ship,however this is not what is bad as the enemy would not be able to produce enough dps to kill you. The problem is gangs of 20-30 where everybody just nanos and if it gets too bad for a sole pilot that pilot just runs recharges his shields and rushes back in,dps in this situation doesnt matter due to your nano ships being able to outrun the conventional setup ships of the opposing side,whereas the nano boats can pump out enough dps to destroy your fleet....The only reason this is overpowered is there are no conventional counters to this tactic,the only way to stop them is nanoing your own fleet. Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. This is what happens when a kestrel with thermal missiles declares war on earth
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:36:00 - [92] A group of skilled players is going to be a serious threat no matter how you choose to tweak the game rules. Put the noobs aside and consider veteran pvpers. Veteran fighter understands that there are no unkillable ships, there are difficult situations, but that's where the real fun is, trying to win in a difficult situation. There are many pro's and con's to each tactic, including the nanoship tactics. The ability to use speed as powerful combat tactic greatly expands the possibilities in EVE combat.
Zhulik Abyss Restless Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:37:00 - [93] Nanoishtars have got to go, everything else I'm fine with. Seriously, don't people fit conventional tanks on their ishtars anymore? Love people who fly nanodrakes(not too much nano tbh), nanoishtars, etc. and write something like "nanos are the aimbot of eve, even if you win you still suck" in their bios. Ooooh, shiny. ----- My views reflect those of my corp completely and entirely. My corpmates will gladly go to war over my forum antics.
Odium47	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:43:00 - [94] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. How stupid is this reply ?! If you are sick of it, you can simply switch to another set up. If you are sick of the game, go play something else.
Matrixcvd Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:43:00 - [95] another 5 more combatants for the "Le Whine Brigade" . I just laugh at people who say there are no counters. I laugh at people when they say 20-30 nano's just is ridiculous when their 8 man BS gang gets slaughtered. I am gonna keep laughin when after all the dust settles there won't be any significant changes made to speed fits in this game. I laugh at just the failsauce you people seem to swim in cause you can't figure out the proper tactics and how to fly, fight, and live in places were people don't want to take 6 hours to go 29 jumps. Its hilarious to think flying speed fits is boring. its probably the most exciting, for both combat and FC'ing. In balanced fleets, it changes the whole game in terms of callin the battle, watching everything unfold on the grid. The idiots in this thread would like us to just line up like battleships in WWII and fire salvos at each other, its ridiculous. All we have here are a handful of people who can't PVP, thats it. The real problem is that the whiners tend to get the attention of new people and can easily convince them that speed fits are unfair because they haven't even gotten out of running missions yet. Thats the sad part. sad really
Lorz0r You're Doing It Wrong	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:51:00 - [96] Originally by: Odium47 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. How stupid is this reply ?! If you are sick of it, you can simply switch to another set up. If you are sick of the game, go play something else. i'm pretty sure the point was that to stay competative you have to fly nano ships yourself
Ceyna Lakise	Posted - 2008.02.06 19:57:00 - [97] Originally by: Matrixcvd RAWR RAWR RAWR!!! Ooof, TRI get really touchy about their nano fleets don't they? When you see an entire alliance base their fleets off a single design purpose you begin to wonder where the balance lies... 4 pages of cutthroat yelling, wtf did I start?
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:00:00 - [98] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling.
Trigos Trilobi Man-Eating Village Idiots	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:00:00 - [99] Originally by: goodby4u Its a problem,but hopefully the falloff thing with TD's will give conventional setups the ability to cut a vagas/sleipnirs or any speed tanking ship that relies on falloff out of the fight....But if not im sure CCP will do what they do best-nerf it all. Just means even more ishtars and sacrileges. Funny how people see this TD thing as some sort of godsend when in all reality what it'll do is break one ship which is already being largely replaced by better options.
Kuzya Morozov Gallente Organized Combat Consortium Fang Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:00:00 - [100] Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships Not constructive - Navigator People like you amaze me, among all the other idiotic comments on how nano ships are completely fine. No, I am not training Amarr Cruiser 5 for a month just to get primaried and die within 20 seconds when I run into a nano-gang. No, that extra 2km will not help on the web, you are an idiot. And yes, obviously newbie alts are able to fly blackbirds well (I honestly don't know where you came up with this), and sure, I'll get 10 alts with Blackbirds and 10 interceptors and look, I can't kill a single vagabond, yet it just 3 volleyed all my ships.

Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:02:00 - [101] Originally by: Ceyna Lakise Originally by: Matrixcvd RAWR RAWR RAWR!!! Ooof, TRI get really touchy about their nano fleets don't they? When you see an entire alliance base their fleets off a single design purpose you begin to wonder where the balance lies... 4 pages of cutthroat yelling, wtf did I start? You started 4 pages of the typical forum whiners whining, and sensible people trying to reason with people who refuse to accept facts that disagree with their viewpoint.
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:06:00 - [102] Originally by: Drasked Originally by: DeadDuck The simple fact that they can pull back from engagment anytime they want just makes the other side not even form to engage the nano gangs If they could pull back at any time, how come nano ships die on a daily basis? It's easy... gate camps with rapiers, jamming ships with inteceptors on support so they can be webbed, but once again, camping is not fun. To to trow 3/4 ships at one single nanohac to be able to catch him is not fun... I could go on and on. If there are rapiers+interdictors or intys+jammers you may catch them - if they dont just aproach gate again and jump out - but if they arent available... well not worth it... This is only for a single hac, now imagine dealing with 10, 20 or even 60 ... ________________ God is my Wingman
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:07:00 - [103] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling. Lo, I wonder who is trolling right now... -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:09:00 - [104] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling. Lo, I wonder who is trolling right now... ITT: The delicious irony of trolls trolling trolls.
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Dark-Rising The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Lorz0r Originally by: Odium47 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. How stupid is this reply ?! If you are sick of it, you can simply switch to another set up. If you are sick of the game, go play something else. i'm pretty sure the point was that to stay competative you have to fly nano ships yourself You took the words out of my mouth. -------------------------------------- The Inquisition III - Relentless Retaliation
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:17:00 - [106] Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You took the words out of my mouth. Someone understood you through all the flamebait?
Parfait M North Face Force	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:27:00 - [107] Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer You took the words out of my mouth. Someone understood you through all the flamebait? Am I in Bizarro world or what? ------- Drink apple juice; OJ will KILL YOU!
Vadimik	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:35:00 - [108] sigh Ok. Want to scare nanos to death ? Try this. Moros. With 5 drone nav comps. And a load of light/med drones.
AstroPhobic Minmatar Port Royal Independent Kontractors Atrum Tempestas Foedus	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:38:00 - [109] To keep my reply short, because I could write a book on this.... -Increase mass on current non-minmatar nanoships (Ishtar.. Other HACs?) And that's it. Minmatar should keep their nano because well, there's only 4 minmatar ships that CAN nano anyway. Vaga, Phoon, and both Recons. Not to mention that both of those recons can KILL all of the nanos. There are enough counters to nano to keep them balanced. As a long time vagabond/minmatar pilot, I can say with absolute certainty that nano-ships are the HARDEST ships to fly, and require constant attention. Has anyone checked the price of polycarbs lately? They're not cheap....
Ephemeron Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.06 20:46:00 - [110] The only thing that I'm seriously concerned about is that CCP Zulupark who has the power to make these changes is not experienced enough in pvp to have good judgement without relying on other's opinion. If he has to rely on other's opinion, he may take these whiners seriously. CCP can stealth nerf without much provokation, very dangerous.

Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:00:00 - [111] The problem with nano is not that you can't beat them, but that you can't kill them (yes I know you CAN, but I am figuratively speaking). That is also what makes an experienced nanogang so much worse to fight against than an experienced conventional gang (as if such a thing existed anymore in todays 0.0 lol). If you fight against conventional ships, even if you are clearly outskilled and outgunned, you still have a decent chance of taking at least some of them to the grave with you, which can result in a fun fight. If you fight a nanogang, you know that you most likely won't kill any, since as soon as you reveal the Huginns/Rapiers (that are usually unwilling to make themselves primary to 20 enemies in the first place), they either kill them really fast, or just bugger off. Because of this, I actually find lowsec PvP a lot more enjoyable, since Sentries know how to deal with nanocrap ;) There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Dromidas Shadowmoon Minmatar 54th Knights Templar Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:10:00 - [112] Edited by: Dromidas Shadowmoon on 06/02/2008 21:11:33 Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Originally by: Dianeces Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Nano is stupid. Nano is overpowered. Yes I myself nano everything that is viable nano-able in my hangar. Yes I still want it nerfed, its not fun. No. You don't find it fun. That is a subjective opinion. You are not qualified to make an objective assertion like that. Quit trolling. Lo, I wonder who is trolling right now... Yes, Lyria doesn't appear to just troll the forums and throw out random posts. What she does is referred to as JonnyJoJo-ism. It's not technically trolling, since it actually does have a purpose (even if the purpose is the ruination of the game by killing it's diversity). It consists of a few basic principals: 1) Go to every forum that exists and seek out threads by races which you do not play, post in there talking about how overpowered said race is compared to your own race without actually offering any sort of real math, explanation, or facts. 2) Go to every forum that exists and seek out threads by the race you DO play, and then post in there talking about how underpowered you are and how overpowered all other races are and fabricate several reasons in hopes of wooing the mindless masses to agree with you. 3) Go to every forum that exists and seek out threads about tactics that you find too difficult to employ successfully, and then post about how said tactic is overpowered and must be removed and/or nerfed. _______________________________________________ Minmatar will always go faster than you, get over it.
Fehz Hard Corp Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:16:00 - [113] There's nano cerbs? I've never seen one of those... (referring to what the op said)
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.02.06 21:52:00 - [114] I wish I knew someone in real life who plays this game and whines about speed fittings. I'd go beat the ** out of them. - Thread Response System** A - Unnecessary whine. Please Adapt. B - Some or all of your opinions are incorrect. C - Thread already exists. D - You are correct.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:03:00 - [115] Originally by: Matrixcvd another 5 more combatants for the "Le Whine Brigade" . I just laugh at people who say there are no counters. I laugh at people when they say 20-30 nano's just is ridiculous when their 8 man BS gang gets slaughtered. I am gonna keep laughin when after all the dust settles there won't be any significant changes made to speed fits in this game. I laugh at just the failsauce you people seem to swim in cause you can't figure out the proper tactics and how to fly, fight, and live in places were people don't want to take 6 hours to go 29 jumps. Its hilarious to think flying speed fits is boring. its probably the most exciting, for both combat and FC'ing. In balanced fleets, it changes the whole game in terms of callin the battle, watching everything unfold on the grid. The idiots in this thread would like us to just line up like battleships in WWII and fire salvos at each other, its ridiculous. All we have here are a handful of people who can't PVP, thats it. The real problem is that the whiners tend to get the attention of new people and can easily convince them that speed fits are unfair because they haven't even gotten out of running missions yet. Thats the sad part. sad really I completely understand the need for nano ships - they break up the monotony of PvP and help keep it from being a bunch of battleships lined up and firing salvos (but when it comes to large fleet warfare, that's pretty much all you CAN do thanks to lag). My issues and complaints have already been stated earlier in the thread. Nano ships have the ability to dictate everything about a fight - thus giving them an immense advantage. The fastest ships in the game can have a simple, relatively low cost t2 non implant nano fit and be immune to damage, the slower ones of course have to expend exhorbinant sums of money to achieve the same thing. You thus have a target that will remain near invulnerable so long as they don't creep inside NEUT/Web range (assuming you have one or the other and plenty of ships simply don't have the ability to fit enough neut to help them and cant afford a long range web). No other ship theory has the ability to fight when it's favorable and run the minute the battle turns against them, and I would point to the WCS nerf as proof that CCP doesn't want you to be able to just up and leave the minute you feel like it even if you have a few points on you. The real problem with the Nano gang isn't about skill or cost or effectivness - it's the simple fact that the only thing a non-nano ship can hope to do is survive the attack - that's all that neut and web will buy you. To KILL a nano gang, you need a GROUP of minie recons and/or a nano gang of your own. (because, in spite of the argument people have about the wonders of the minnie recons, they tend to be the first thing to die if the nano gang stands and fights).
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:04:00 - [116] Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters).
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:22:00 - [117] Originally by: Ariel Dawn Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters). This tactic relies on the nano-pilot to simply not pay attention to your maneuvers, and failing to use his "coast" to leave your web range the minute you snag them. A counter that relies on the opponent to screw up in his own response is a gamble, not a counter. Using similar tactics I've managed to beat back nano ships but I've never managed to do more that "scare them" in terms of damage (In a 1V1). Most of them seem to recognize the danger of both web and neuts and leave. In a larger gang (on the rare occasion anybody bothers to form a gang rather than just dock and wait for them to get bored) I've seen the occasional nano-kill from non nano ships but that was based entirely on the fact that the pilots chose not to escape and pressed their attacks - if you get enough ships it doesn't quite matter if there's a web or not, the nano ship is going to have a low transversal for somebody. In spite of what some people may gather from my posts, I'm not saying they need to be nerfed per se - speed is imporant in keeping the battlefield fluid. I'm saying that as they stand they are far to difficult to counter by anything other than a specialized ship (minnie recons), vastly superior numbers, or nano ships of your own.
Marcus Druallis Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:25:00 - [118] Originally by: Eclip Edited by: Eclip on 06/02/2008 03:46:15 Originally by: GusHobbleton Get a nanosac. It can kill any nano ship save another nano-sac. Alternately, you could train overheating. 12 days and suddenly your webs go farther, your neuts go farther, wow! Or you know, you could get a newbie alt in a blackbird and have an inty with a web tackle. Just multiply for multiple nano ships Not constructive - Navigator HAHA i would like to see ur 10 blackbirds 10 intys kill 10 vagas their drones would pop 2 - 3 of ur blackbirds when they uncloaked and noob skills in blackbirds suck for jamming. Get outta ur nano ship and try to fight some. Overheated neuts go to 26-27 omg their at 28-30km gl with that and ur overheated webs go to 13km. hm 28-13 = omg 15km which is more then ur webs reach by 2 times. The gun dps of a vaga sucks it gets more damage from drones. plus when u are doing ur 2 and 3 damage per missile the vaga is killig you with its pathetic gun dps. so you fail. missile ships dont kill nano ships till they stop period. This thread is getting derailed now though. Sorry to the OP just sick of the stupid replies about catching nano ships all the time. No thought to them what so ever they just go ooohhhh aaaarrrr minni reocns ahve web bonus use that. sigh back to work i guess You do know Vaga's have to slow down to shoot? --
pandymen The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:29:00 - [119] Edited by: pandymen on 06/02/2008 22:30:15 Yeah...honestly, if the nano ships outnubmer you so much that you do not have enough ships to neut/TD them, then you would probably get slaughtered anyway. If they brought that many battleships, they would prolly still pwn you with 0 losses. All I have to say is heavy neuts. Nanos cannot dictate everything. If they come within warp dis range, I can neut them. If they come within web range, I can web them. So, if I see a solo/small gang against my lonesome BS, I will just mwd back to gate and survive. If I see a large nano gang catch my lonesome ship, I'm an idiot for going out alone anyway without paying attention to intel channels. There is nothing overpowered about a nano ship. The entire reason for the issue is the same problem idiots had with the passive drakes before. They were ****ed they couldn't kill one with their BS, although, in most cases, they could. Same thing goes for nanos....you may not be able to kill it with every ship, but it sure as heck can't kill every ship either. It needs help, just like you do to kill it. Edit: And you realize that as much as people seem to think tracking disruptors are useless....you realize they are an awesome counter against the tracking on nano ships?
Ariel Dawn Beets and Gravy Syndicate	Posted - 2008.02.06 22:53:00 - [120] Originally by: Derek Sigres Originally by: Ariel Dawn Wait until they are orbiting you at normal speed (all nano-ships other than the Sac will do this). Toggle your mwd and web to overload and align in a direction that the nanoship's orbit will enter into your path. Hit it with heavy neuts, while turning on your MWD and web it. You'll be going 1km/s+ at the least in the slowest plated BS while it will be doing 400m/s or so with no capacitor. All that remains afterwards is scooping the loot. Also speed is another form of tank in addition to shield/armor. It has it's benefits (easy to disengage) and drawbacks (relatively crappy damage across ships, dies very quickly when not moving quickly, very vulnerable to a number of counters). This tactic relies on the nano-pilot to simply not pay attention to your maneuvers, and failing to use his "coast" to leave your web range the minute you snag them. A counter that relies on the opponent to screw up in his own response is a gamble, not a counter. Using similar tactics I've managed to beat back nano ships but I've never managed to do more that "scare them" in terms of damage (In a 1V1). Most of them seem to recognize the danger of both web and neuts and leave. In a larger gang (on the rare occasion anybody bothers to form a gang rather than just dock and wait for them to get bored) I've seen the occasional nano-kill from non nano ships but that was based entirely on the fact that the pilots chose not to escape and pressed their attacks - if you get enough ships it doesn't quite matter if there's a web or not, the nano ship is going to have a low transversal for somebody. In spite of what some people may gather from my posts, I'm not saying they need to be nerfed per se - speed is imporant in keeping the battlefield fluid. I'm saying that as they stand they are far to difficult to counter by anything other than a specialized ship (minnie recons), vastly superior numbers, or nano ships of your own. No, it doesn't rely on the pilot making a mistake. The nano-ships have to slow down (unless missile or drone based) to do any damage. There is no way a Vagabond/etc can counter being neuted and caught as their speed is not sufficient without MWD to escape any ship with a MWD. The only possible counter a nano-ship has to this is fitting a capacitor booster; but then that weakens their shield tank significantly as well and hence it is rarely done. Neuts, overloaded MWD and Web = 100% kill rate vs Vaga and associated nanoship that slow down that have cruiser-sized capacitors. Just to make it clear, there is no chance they can coast out of your web range because their MWD was never on when you hit them with neuts and will have no inertia once they get webbed (and they will). This is VERY easy to pull off against nano-ships and is one of the best points of ships like the Tempest since neuts are very easy to fit on it.



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