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Ladyah Liandri Silver Eagles Imperium Aeternum	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:56:00 - [31] Yeah, it's really harsh realizing that you just can't win every time. Want a cookie?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.07 14:59:00 - [32] Seriously, this is a way for players using knowledge and skill to get themselves in to and through lo-sec, and have a fair chance at making a living... and this is a bad thing? Gatecamps should fail more often than not. The missioner or miner should have a reasonable expectation of completing his mining run or mission without losing his ship. Getting pirated should be a risk, not a certainty. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Snackerlfang	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:08:00 - [33] Edited by: Snackerlfang on 07/02/2008 15:08:41 Originally by: Le Skunk Basically its another collosal fuk up by CCP that they wont acknowledge which enables you to travel thorugh low sec in any ship you want and be totaly invunerable. I have tested this method in a battleship and had an interceptor with 5k scan res try to lock me and it is not possible. CCP 'are aware' of this though are doing nothing viaible about it. The fix is incredibly simple.. If your mwd is active you cannot cloak.. end of problem. SKUNK /looks at post here and notes similarities of thread here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=699794 le skunks alt?
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:10:00 - [34] Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 15:10:14 Originally by: Snackerlfang Edited by: Snackerlfang on 07/02/2008 15:08:41 Originally by: Le Skunk Basically its another collosal fuk up by CCP that they wont acknowledge which enables you to travel thorugh low sec in any ship you want and be totaly invunerable. I have tested this method in a battleship and had an interceptor with 5k scan res try to lock me and it is not possible. CCP 'are aware' of this though are doing nothing viaible about it. The fix is incredibly simple.. If your mwd is active you cannot cloak.. end of problem. SKUNK /looks at post here and notes similarities of thread here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=699794 le skunks alt? Idiot. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:12:00 - [35] Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 15:14:42 Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 15:14:33 Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, this is a way for players using knowledge and skill to get themselves in to and through lo-sec, and have a fair chance at making a living... and this is a bad thing? Gatecamps should fail more often than not. The missioner or miner should have a reasonable expectation of completing his mining run or mission without losing his ship. Getting pirated should be a risk, not a certainty. So the solo, unscouted, 1 month old pirate in the slowest BS in the game with 1 million isk fittings "should get past more often then not" ten 50 mill skillpoint pirates with a synergy gang and 3 billion isk of ships and fittings? Is that truely what you are saying here? Originally by: Malcanis Jeez, I never thought I'd see you be the one to cry for a nerf. Indeed - I am very pro sorting things out in game without ccps interferance. As such, this surely stresses even more emphasis on how borked this is if im calling for an adjustment to this broken mechanic SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Twilight Mourning Can't drop a bubble because you are in low sec and not 0.0? Get a pair of balls and quit claiming to be a pirate. So I humbly hope this information has helped you in your cause of killing evil bears! Twilight 1) Post with your main 2) Stop making an idiot out of yourself 3) Real Men PVP in Empire 4) It had absolutly no value to me in my cause of killing evil bears so get back into your box SKUNK
Snackerlfang	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:21:00 - [37] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 15:10:14 Originally by: Snackerlfang Edited by: Snackerlfang on 07/02/2008 15:08:41 Originally by: Le Skunk Basically its another collosal fuk up by CCP that they wont acknowledge which enables you to travel thorugh low sec in any ship you want and be totaly invunerable. I have tested this method in a battleship and had an interceptor with 5k scan res try to lock me and it is not possible. CCP 'are aware' of this though are doing nothing viaible about it. The fix is incredibly simple.. If your mwd is active you cannot cloak.. end of problem. SKUNK /looks at post here and notes similarities of thread here http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=699794 le skunks alt? Idiot. SKUNK lawl @ u
Sslinger Privateers Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:25:00 - [38] If I repeat someone elses comment I opologise. I couldnt stomach to read the whole thing. It is my experience that merely attempting to target someone will prevent them from cloaking. You dont actually have to be locked. So it wont really matter the number of sensor boosters. Aslo someone mentioned above that you could hit "approach" in your inteceptor, but speed would reduce to zero once the ship cloaked..the counter for this is immediately after hitting the max speed button after hitting approach
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:25:00 - [39] I'm sorry, I simply don't see it as a bad thing that there's a counter to gate camps. Your "we have more SP/ISK therefore we should always get kills" argument is, to be candid, pretty lame. Almost as disappointing as your cry for nerfing. If some guy and his 1M SP have found a way to counter your gang then well done and good luck to him. Instead of just stabbing up and then whining that HICs are overpowered, he's done something different, which requires a little practice and skill. Like that guy, whatsisname, who was robbing the big pirate gatecamp that popped him. Those pirates cried because someone was fighting back too, and they didn't get much respect either. I can think of a couple of ways to make this tactic less reliably effective and I'm sure you can too. They're pretty obvious really, but on the other hand I sometimes travel lo-sec too. But I repeat: it's a good thing that there's a moderately effective way to get through lo-sec camps. And if you calm down a little and think about it, I'm sure you'll think so to upon reflection. There's a reason most countries have catch-and-release laws... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:32:00 - [40] Originally by: Sslinger If I repeat someone elses comment I opologise. I couldnt stomach to read the whole thing. It is my experience that merely attempting to target someone will prevent them from cloaking. You dont actually have to be locked. So it wont really matter the number of sensor boosters. Aslo someone mentioned above that you could hit "approach" in your inteceptor, but speed would reduce to zero once the ship cloaked..the counter for this is immediately after hitting the max speed button after hitting approach An interceptor with 6k scan res CANNOT lock the ship using this trick. All you get is a repeated 'start of lock' sequence before lock breaks. Thi hitting max speed button dose not work particulaly well as EVEs borked "water like" space physics, dip the nose of your interceptor down as if it is plughing through a wall of water. So when you have clicked max speed your heading off alignment. SKUNK SKUNK
Jezebel Leroux Gallente Creative Destruction	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:34:00 - [41] Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 15:14:42 Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 15:14:33 Originally by: Malcanis Seriously, this is a way for players using knowledge and skill to get themselves in to and through lo-sec, and have a fair chance at making a living... and this is a bad thing? Gatecamps should fail more often than not. The missioner or miner should have a reasonable expectation of completing his mining run or mission without losing his ship. Getting pirated should be a risk, not a certainty. So the solo, unscouted, 1 month old pirate in the slowest BS in the game with 1 million isk fittings "should get past more often then not" ten 50 mill skillpoint pirates with a synergy gang and 3 billion isk of ships and fittings? Thank you for so beautifully highlighting, all in one sentence, the inherent lameness of all RPG PVP. Great job.
Haldeeman	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:37:00 - [42] "OHNOES NERF TEH CLOAXERS" its now balanced. a skillful pirate gang will work out a way to counter. the cookie cutter types, will however, not. adapt or die.
Twilight Mourning	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:37:00 - [43] Edited by: Twilight Mourning on 07/02/2008 15:41:04 Originally by: Le Skunk3) Real Men PVP in Empire SKUNK Hahahahhahahahahhaa Keep on stokin that e-peen. And keep on watching us 1mil sp pilots get past your poor widdle gate camps. As for real men PvP in Empire? I thought only kid who couldn't hack it in 0.0 PvPd in empire against defenseless carebears. Said carebears then have to hire real PvP corps that then cause said "real men" to dock up untill the real PvPers went away. edit: Fixing the quote box.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Malcanis I'm sorry, I simply don't see it as a bad thing that there's a counter to gate camps. Your "we have more SP/ISK therefore we should always get kills" argument is, to be candid, pretty lame. Almost as disappointing as your cry for nerfing. If some guy and his 1M SP have found a way to counter your gang then well done and good luck to him. Instead of just stabbing up and then whining that HICs are overpowered, he's done something different, which requires a little practice and skill. Like that guy, whatsisname, who was robbing the big pirate gatecamp that popped him. Those pirates cried because someone was fighting back too, and they didn't get much respect either. I can think of a couple of ways to make this tactic less reliably effective and I'm sure you can too. They're pretty obvious really, but on the other hand I sometimes travel lo-sec too. But I repeat: it's a good thing that there's a moderately effective way to get through lo-sec camps. And if you calm down a little and think about it, I'm sure you'll think so to upon reflection. There's a reason most countries have catch-and-release laws... Firslty thanks you for your post, they are a cut above some of the trolls on here. 1) Its not 'moderatly effecitve' its nigh on foolproof. 2) There is a good way to get safely thorugh lowsec.. scouts, a nano fit, an escort. Blindly slapping a 1 millin isk fitting on your combat ship and using a borked mechanic to escape is not a 'good way'. 3) This game is all about teamwork, skill points, fittings. CCP enocurage teamwork to achieve goals adn I do not feel it is unfair to suggest that it should not be overly difficult for 10 experienced pilots who have trained skills, bought ships, and setup SPECIFICALLY to catch you in your lumbering BS with its (1 million isk fittings) as you jump thorugh a gate should have incredible difficulty doing so 4) Whathisname was an attention seeking carebear alt, who got bored of camping the campers for hours on end (as people said he would) and has disapeared back to his main. Simply blocking his chat removed 90% of the fun he was getting from his fake noob crusade. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:49:00 - [45] Originally by: Twilight Mourning Edited by: Twilight Mourning on 07/02/2008 15:41:04 Originally by: Le Skunk3) Real Men PVP in Empire SKUNK Hahahahhahahahahhaa Keep on stokin that e-peen. And keep on watching us 1mil sp pilots get past your poor widdle gate camps. As for real men PvP in Empire? I thought only kid who couldn't hack it in 0.0 PvPd in empire against defenseless carebears. Said carebears then have to hire real PvP corps that then cause said "real men" to dock up untill the real PvPers went away. edit: Fixing the quote box. I seriously think your ranting indireclty about something totaly unrelated to this thread? Perhaps you were can flipped or something in empire? This thread is specificaly about the borked mwd=cloak mechanics in low sec. When asked for a feasible counter to the broken mechanic, your answer was "rEAL men get teh ball and shooty 0.0" which is worthy of winning "idiot noob alt troll of the thread" award in a thread CHOCK FULL TO THE BRIM of idiot noob alt trolls. SKUNK
Roguehalo	Posted - 2008.02.07 15:53:00 - [46] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Twilight Mourning Edited by: Twilight Mourning on 07/02/2008 15:41:04 Originally by: Le Skunk3) Real Men PVP in Empire SKUNK Hahahahhahahahahhaa Keep on stokin that e-peen. And keep on watching us 1mil sp pilots get past your poor widdle gate camps. As for real men PvP in Empire? I thought only kid who couldn't hack it in 0.0 PvPd in empire against defenseless carebears. Said carebears then have to hire real PvP corps that then cause said "real men" to dock up untill the real PvPers went away. edit: Fixing the quote box. I seriously think your ranting indireclty about something totaly unrelated to this thread? Perhaps you were can flipped or something in empire? This thread is specificaly about the borked mwd=cloak mechanics in low sec. When asked for a feasible counter to the broken mechanic, your answer was "rEAL men get teh ball and shooty 0.0" which is worthy of winning "idiot noob alt troll of the thread" award in a thread CHOCK FULL TO THE BRIM of idiot noob alt trolls. SKUNK the mechanics aren't broken. you just aren't good enough to hack it
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:00:00 - [47] Originally by: Roguehalo the mechanics aren't broken. you just aren't good enough to hack it Excelant.. another alt troll for the pile. Well noobalttrool8 - how about doign me the great favour of telling me how I can be as good as you and hack it. HINT - it cant involve a bubble or any sort SKUNK
Twilight Mourning	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:22:00 - [48] Originally by: Le Skunk I seriously think your ranting indireclty about something totaly unrelated to this thread? Perhaps you were can flipped or something in empire? This thread is specificaly about the borked mwd=cloak mechanics in low sec. When asked for a feasible counter to the broken mechanic, your answer was "rEAL men get teh ball and shooty 0.0" which is worthy of winning "idiot noob alt troll of the thread" award in a thread CHOCK FULL TO THE BRIM of idiot noob alt trolls. SKUNK No, this thread is about you whining because people are using a valid means to escape your gate camp and you are either too stupid or too lazy to think up ways to get around it. You can't go F1, F2, F3, scoop loot, boo hoo. You call if a broken mechanic. I call it a sound mechanic that gives people a chance to make it through gate camps. There is no Eve on God Mode. Live with the mechanics of the game. Adjust to them so that they work in your favor. What would be the point of having all the mechanics set so that there was no escaping a gate camp? That's all Eve would be is one giant gate camp.
Goyda Veni Vidi Vici. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:37:00 - [49] This thread makes no sense, you missed a raven in your gatecamp, big fat hairy deal. He was good enough to get away. Honestly the thing about using a MWD and cloak, so what, kill the next ship that comes through. Doesn't need to be fixed, unless they first fix a 10000m/s machirel (sp) that I saw the other day.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:48:00 - [50] Originally by: Twilight Mourning Adjust to them so that they work in your favor. What would be the point of having all the mechanics set so that there was no escaping a gate camp? That's all Eve would be is one giant gate camp. You dont like absolutes it appears.. you dont like the though of it be 100% impossible to escape a gatecamp. Yet you are quite happy for it to be 100% possible to escape a gatecamp. This shows a clear lack of clarity on your part. You should take a good look at your posts in this thread and attempt to learn from your mistakes for the next time you inadvisadly pipe up. SKUNK
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 16:50:00 - [51] Originally by: Goyda This thread makes no sense, you missed a raven in your gatecamp, big fat hairy deal. He was good enough to get away. Honestly the thing about using a MWD and cloak, so what, kill the next ship that comes through. Doesn't need to be fixed, unless they first fix a 10000m/s machirel (sp) that I saw the other day. This also shows a lack of clear thinking. You say "yeah the thing with the mwd and cloak allows a ship to get a way.. just get the next one". Well if CCP dont fix this broken mechanic, then the next ship will have one. And the next ship. And the next ship. And the next ship. SKUNK
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:01:00 - [52] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Malcanis I'm sorry, I simply don't see it as a bad thing that there's a counter to gate camps. Your "we have more SP/ISK therefore we should always get kills" argument is, to be candid, pretty lame. Almost as disappointing as your cry for nerfing. If some guy and his 1M SP have found a way to counter your gang then well done and good luck to him. Instead of just stabbing up and then whining that HICs are overpowered, he's done something different, which requires a little practice and skill. Like that guy, whatsisname, who was robbing the big pirate gatecamp that popped him. Those pirates cried because someone was fighting back too, and they didn't get much respect either. I can think of a couple of ways to make this tactic less reliably effective and I'm sure you can too. They're pretty obvious really, but on the other hand I sometimes travel lo-sec too. But I repeat: it's a good thing that there's a moderately effective way to get through lo-sec camps. And if you calm down a little and think about it, I'm sure you'll think so to upon reflection. There's a reason most countries have catch-and-release laws... Firslty thanks you for your post, they are a cut above some of the trolls on here. 1) Its not 'moderatly effecitve' its nigh on foolproof. 2) There is a good way to get safely thorugh lowsec.. scouts, a nano fit, an escort. Blindly slapping a 1 millin isk fitting on your combat ship and using a borked mechanic to escape is not a 'good way'. 3) This game is all about teamwork, skill points, fittings. CCP enocurage teamwork to achieve goals adn I do not feel it is unfair to suggest that it should not be overly difficult for 10 experienced pilots who have trained skills, bought ships, and setup SPECIFICALLY to catch you in your lumbering BS with its (1 million isk fittings) as you jump thorugh a gate should have incredible difficulty doing so 4) Whathisname was an attention seeking carebear alt, who got bored of camping the campers for hours on end (as people said he would) and has disapeared back to his main. Simply blocking his chat removed 90% of the fun he was getting from his fake noob crusade. SKUNK I try to be constructive when I think the person I am debating is capable of responding in kind. I don't do a lot of lo-sec gate-camping, but I believe that you do. So: we'll posit that this tactic has a very high chance of success. Well as it happens, I engage in a spot of 0.0 gate-camping now and then, dictor bubbles and all, and guess what? There're even fits that will allow some ships to evade that too. I know how frustrating it can be. But no tactic should be without it's counter. There certainly are things you can do to stop people cloaking, but cloaks have been in the game a long time now, and this trick is hardly new. The only new thing about it is that someone's done it to you. (Have YOU ever used the cloak + MWD trick?). Why is this technique BAD, yet alt scouting is GOOD? Heck, at least you get some kind of chance with the cloak/MWD thing if they screw it upor jump right next to one of your ships & can't cloak. I'll repeat again: if there's a way for people to travel relatively safely through lo-sec, so much the better. This is no more a bad thing for pirates than catch limits are for fisherman. You'll get fewer fish today, but many more fish this year. But you'll probably have to get off the gate to catch 'em. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Haldeeman	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:04:00 - [53] There is a way and a counter to everything in eve.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:05:00 - [54] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Goyda This thread makes no sense, you missed a raven in your gatecamp, big fat hairy deal. He was good enough to get away. Honestly the thing about using a MWD and cloak, so what, kill the next ship that comes through. Doesn't need to be fixed, unless they first fix a 10000m/s machirel (sp) that I saw the other day. This also shows a lack of clear thinking. You say "yeah the thing with the mwd and cloak allows a ship to get a way.. just get the next one". Well if CCP dont fix this broken mechanic, then the next ship will have one. And the next ship. And the next ship. And the next ship. SKUNK If this was true, scamming would not be viable, since people would stop getting scammed as soon as the first reports hit the forums. In fact gate-camping would already not be viable since this Cloak/MWD technique has been known for as long as I've been playing EvE. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Haldeeman There is a way and a counter to everything in eve. Like motherships in low sec? There was a way of killing a MOM in lowsec, but it was so insanely time intensive and relied on a large degree of luck (i think one ship was ever caught) that guess what ... CCP nerfed moms in low sec. You can kill someone employing this mwd and cloak trick in low sec. It to is insanely time intensive and relys on a large degree of luck. See a parallel here? CCP dont like a single ship being invunerable. SKUNK You kind of see why your post
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:41:00 - [56] Edited by: Le Skunk on 07/02/2008 17:44:17 Originally by: Malcanis Well as it happens, I engage in a spot of 0.0 gate-camping now and then, dictor bubbles and all, and guess what? There're even fits that will allow some ships to evade that too. I know how frustrating it can be. Its not 'some' ships that can abuse this mechanic.. its every ship. Its not a specific fit, its a 1 million isk 2 slot fit. In 0.0 the odd cov ops or extreme nano ship can get out of a bubble. A cov ops or extreme nano ship can get past a low sec gate camp most of the time.. this is fine and balanced - nobody at all would moan about that. IT is NOT balanced that the slowest ships in the game can spend next to no isk and with no skills travel with impunity where they want, with no regard to risk.. as there isnt any. Its a simple parlor trick, using f1 and f2 keys. Its an abuse of an oversight (imho) by ccp. Its easily fixed in a number of ways. Quote: I'll repeat again: if there's a way for people to travel relatively safely through lo-sec, so much the better. This is no more a bad thing for pirates than catch limits are for fisherman. You'll get fewer fish today, but many more fish this year. But you'll probably have to get off the gate to catch 'em. 1) ITs not relativly safer - its almost completly safe. 2) CCPs design of the game means that gates are pretty much the only way to catch someone in low sec. The belts are worthless in both minerals and rats. Believe me, if there was any other way to achieve a decent turnover I would do it. SKUNK
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.02.07 17:51:00 - [57] Skunk, you missed the important parts of my posts: There certainly are things you can do to stop people cloaking, but cloaks have been in the game a long time now, and this trick is hardly new. The only new thing about it is that someone's done it to you. (Have YOU ever used the cloak + MWD trick?). Why is this technique BAD, yet alt scouting is GOOD? Heck, at least you get some kind of chance with the cloak/MWD thing if they screw it up or jump right next to one of your ships & can't cloak. If this was true... gate-camping would already not be viable since this Cloak/MWD technique has been known for as long as I've been playing EvE. So why is the cloak/MWD suddenly a problem NOW? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Goyda Veni Vidi Vici. Brotherhood Of Steel	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:06:00 - [58] Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Goyda ...(sp) that I saw the other day. This also shows a lack of clear thinking. You say "yeah the thing with the mwd and cloak allows a ship to get a way.. just get the next one". Well if CCP dont fix this broken mechanic, then the next ship will have one. And the next ship. And the next ship. And the next ship. SKUNK This is not unclear thinking, it's just not agreeing with you. What you're saying is you want easy pickings when you gate camp. Adjust your tactics. It happened and you didn't kill a raven, so what. Sheesh. And if everyone did it well then there would be less gatecamp blobs and to me big deal and the spice would flow. If it happens you might have to actually do something to get a kill other than hug a gate or station. dialing the waaambulance for you. remain calm.
Chen Chura	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:43:00 - [59] wow a thread of mine turned in to Trollhaven /waves to Le Skunk and Friends /attempts to put thread back on track ------------------------------------------------ I have crunched some numbers. An interceptor with a 6km/s top speed can cover 30k in just over 7.7 seconds from a dead stop. in that time the BS probably hasnt even moved 100 m from his last know position A speedy battleship (raven) even using the MWD/cloak trick will need still in the neighborhood of 15.6 seconds to get to speed. sooooo low sec camps need a dedicated interceptor bumper to decloak and hopfully unalign the sneaky Battleship, leaving about 8 seconds to get a point on him if the unalign part fails but the decloaking works. Problem: interceptors are bad tacklers if they need to tank sentry fire
SirMoric	Posted - 2008.02.07 18:46:00 - [60] Seems like there are two sides of the story. One is that you, as a pirate, almost see a Raven as a kill no matter the circumstances. The other that a ship, with low skillpoints and a cheap fitting, is able to get away from a large and well-planned (if those can be said to exist) gatecamps. I do understand the frustration of the gatecampers, they sit for hours on end, waiting for some decent targets to get through and then a lonely Raven arrives and is able to avoid the camp. Now the question is, is it just the Raven that got away that hurts or is it the fact that the amount of targets aren't numerous in the first place? For one thing, a gatecamp shouldn't be inpenetrable, that would just hamper travel too much and reduce the chances people take when travelling alone, on the other hand, the pirates need more targets. How do we solve this? Noone wants to be killed by pirates, not human players at least. Regarding the ability to fit a cheap, low skillrequirement ship, to be able to avoid the camps/pirates, I see no problem in that, it's the beauty of EVE, being new and maybe able to run from fights rather than die only because you haven't the skill or money. So all-in-all a Raven got away, no big deal. You'll catch the next comming through.... oh wait? No you won't, cause you just told everyone how to avoid gatecamps

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