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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 27 post(s) |
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange
Fatal Ascension
74
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Posted - 2011.10.03 10:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
Myfanwy Heimdal wrote:I've just lost a drone which went rogue. I tried calling it back but it refused to do anything other than stand Idle.
This happened at the same time, when the distances on my Overview were horrbly wrong and were puting up random values.
The overview in this case said that the enemy npc were chasing me (I was trying to kite them in a drake) at about 60kms and then they suddenly rubber-banded to 200km+. At the same time I was unable to control the drone even though commands were being sent to it.
This was either terrible lag, or you kited the NPCs too far(they will reset if you kite them to far). If the NPCs reset while your drones are on them, the drones can get... random.. because they think they should be attacking that target still, but its both too far away, and invulnerable(because its warping back).
I'd call that behavior buggy, but at least you can predict it if you know how far you can get away with kiting the rats(usually around 200km  )
o/`-á Lord, I want to be a gynecologist..
KY, rubber gloves, and a flashlight.-á o/` |
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
1
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Posted - 2011.10.03 10:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
I've seen it in a couple of missions.
Level 5 Rattlesnake
Hammerhead II
I engage target with active drones and then drones are starting to mwd to to the target and start shooting it. What happens next is that hammerheads disengage the target and become passive, i have to engage the same target again for the drones to start shooting it again.
It is as someone is ECM bursting the whole mission but it only happens to drones, my ship doesn't loose lock. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
214
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Posted - 2011.10.06 06:27:00 -
[93] - Quote
*bump for justice*
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:05:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
Drone boat FTW!
The above boat is what I am using and I am getting the idle and "no focus fire" issues on a permanent basis.
Having the drones set to aggresive+focus fire at all times.
First attack is always correct but if I directly after assign "attack" to another target ( which was not on the drones secondary target list ) the issues accur.
All drones gets assinged correctly.. 1 of them fires and the rest either goes idle or moves to what was their secondary target ( the one THEY had chozen )
I am not sure how/why you cant see it so I added my boat so you, in one way or another, can get the same loadout and try it on that, might be boat related?
Maybe try and get on live to try it?
These issues have been here for a VERY LONG time now and you devs havent even acknowledged that it is an issue until this forum thread.
Dont get me wrong here but you boys and girls have made a great meny mistakes for several months now and while you appear to be going in the right direction this drone issue is the one *BEEP* issue that should have gotten fixed a day or so after incarna. ( and dont come and say we havent told you about the issues because there are alot of ppl that have been posting about it since incarna )
PLEASE FIX IT!! :D :D :D :D
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Rasheki
Almost Miners
0
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Posted - 2011.10.08 16:51:00 -
[95] - Quote
Message to CCP Greyscale
I use an AC Fit Myrm w/ HH II drones, chain runnin L3 for faction/corp standing increases.
Drone settings as follows: Focus Fire = True; Agressive = True
The lack of focus fire is tied to issue of the drone choosing a target other than the instructed target. Setup for reproduction is this:
w/ multiple hostiles on the field at the same or mixed ranges
1. Launch Drones send after target (mix HH II and Warrior II)
2. Let drones choose next target
3. After several targets instruct drones to engage a specified target **problem begins here**
3.1 - due to flight times and lock/aquire cycle times (happens more often if you mix drone types (HH II and warrior II works well for this bug), the warriors will often aquire and go after a target on their own, the HH with longer lock/aquire cycle will go after the target you've given them.
Notes on 3.1: The lack of focus fire appears to be a result of the issue of target acquisition. Because the warriors are acquiring their targets faster they tend to go after the target they choose where as the HH go after the target i designate. THis causes a split in focus fire. The focus fire issue is a result of the conflicting target designations. After they are split, they tend to take several target changes to re-converge on a single target, as the targets tend to die at different intervals. |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.10.08 18:37:00 -
[96] - Quote
While I havent seen or tried it with mining drones there are a few who say they get these issues also. which further complicates things :P |
Shuckstar
Hauling hogs
Swine Aviation Labs
47
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Posted - 2011.10.09 04:05:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
Saying working as advertised and there still a problem in the same post is bit odd. Also try in on Tranq or watch some of the fraps these other kind pilots have linked showing you the exact problems.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
254
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Posted - 2011.10.09 12:51:00 -
[98] - Quote
Rasheki wrote:Message to CCP Greyscale
I use an AC Fit Myrm w/ HH II drones, chain runnin L3 for faction/corp standing increases.
Drone settings as follows: Focus Fire = True; Agressive = True
The lack of focus fire is tied to issue of the drone choosing a target other than the instructed target. Setup for reproduction is this:
w/ multiple hostiles on the field at the same or mixed ranges
1. Launch Drones send after target (mix HH II and Warrior II)
2. Let drones choose next target
3. After several targets instruct drones to engage a specified target **problem begins here**
3.1 - due to flight times and lock/aquire cycle times (happens more often if you mix drone types (HH II and warrior II works well for this bug), the warriors will often aquire and go after a target on their own, the HH with longer lock/aquire cycle will go after the target you've given them.
Notes on 3.1: The lack of focus fire appears to be a result of the issue of target acquisition. Because the warriors are acquiring their targets faster they tend to go after the target they choose where as the HH go after the target i designate. THis causes a split in focus fire. The focus fire issue is a result of the conflicting target designations. After they are split, they tend to take several target changes to re-converge on a single target, as the targets tend to die at different intervals.
Different drone types are good example because they usually arrive to target at bit different time and tend to have different firing cycle timing than the drones already there.
I hate to repeat myself but the bug is triggered when:
1. X amount of drones are shooting same target
2. Some of the drones kill the target in end of their cycle firing cycle, but not all drones are involved in this.
3. Those drones which were not involved in "kill shot" got still their final firing cycle running and are locked to "dead" target.
3.1 These "special final cycle"-drones are assigned or acquire new target while the cycle still continues.
3.2 When their cycle finishes, they finally realize that their target has been dead/gone/killed for a while already and they reset.
3.3 After reset they either acquire new random target or have to be assigned to new target, depending are they active or passive.
As explained above currently drones stay locked to their "original" target for their entire firing/mining cycle, no matter are they assigned to to new target or does their "original" target even actually exist any more. Drones perform this test only in end of their cycle and this has to be fixed.
To fix the bug flawlessly following checks has to be added to the code:
when target in the grid dies/vanishes/depletes every drone needs to check "was it my target?", unlock and disengage if it was.
when drone is acquiring new target and focus fire is on, check have all other drones unlocked and disengaged before taking action.
when drone is manually assigned to new target, immediately unlock and disengage from the old target if one exists.
If above causes too heavy server load, this method fixes the bug from most parts but is not totally flawless:
when pilots own drone kills/depletes target, all his other drones need to check "was it my target?", unlock and disengage if it was.
when drone is acquiring new target and focus fire is on, check have all other drones unlocked and disengaged before taking action.
when drone is manually assigned to new target, immediately unlock and disengage from the old target if one exists.
Video which I posted to this same thread while ago proves the point.
Now could someone please(!) import this to game code so we could be done with this deal once and for good?
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.10.10 06:46:00 -
[99] - Quote
Just noticed that they are not focus fireing when they are allowed to choose targets by their own either |
Daniel Souquel
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2011.10.11 10:18:00 -
[100] - Quote
This is my first post on the forums and it's already about a bug we all know. Not a good sign...
As mentioned before, my drones have a kinda random behavior. Sometimes they attack the target they ordered to attack, some times they just do their own thing and attack at random. I tried all possible settings for the drone behavior, (aggressive/passive, focusing/not focusing), here are my results:
Passive + Focusing/Not Focusing:
Drones are in full-******-mode and just do things on order and idle mid fight at random, even if their target is still alive. There for i have to constantly spam the attack-order, otherwise i have a idle drone doing nothing but to take up space.
I was not able to reproduce this behavior on demand. Sometimes they just work as intended and sometimes not. It's just random and distracting.
Aggressive + Focusing:
Drones primarily attacking targets that are attacking me, most of the times they focus one target, but every 2nd to 3rd target they split up and attack random targets, even when you give them a order to attack a specific target.
When you order them to attack a specific target 8 out 10 times they do what they should and at the other 2 times, they just do what they want. Splitting up, idle or sometimes disappear completely. But that's a very rare case and they reappear after a couple of seconds.
Aggressive + Not Focusing:
Same behavior as Aggressive + Focusing, but with more split-ups and random stuff. Sometimes they search for a new target, sometimes not. But in most cases they work as intended and attack random targets. Given orders sometimes have no effect at all and sometimes they just idle after a order was given.
Mining-drones in general:
The mining drones have a huge delay between arriving at the given target and start of the mining circle, in most cases they start after 60+ seconds and sometimes not even after 5-7 minutes (that's the time my cargo is full).
Sometimes they start to idle after their first circle or they don't deliver the mined ore to my ship or they deliver the ore but don't return the the asteroid they where assigned to.
Steps used for testing (just combat):
- arriving in the gird
- locking the targets in range
- start attacking until aggro is on me
- deploying drones
- order them to attack a target
- if on aggressive, just let them do their thing and start to salvage or if they are in passive mode, order them to attack the next target and salvage :D
- repeat...
A possible solution:
On focus fire, treat drones like one single unit and just scale up the dmg ratios etc. and just draw the individual models on client. That will lead to less server impact (i think) and focus fire don't need extra checks or other things to guarantee working focus fire.
Grouping could be handled by type or custom by the player. This could be accomplished with the existing group feature in the drone interface.
Just one problem: What to do in pvp or if the "drone-group" has aggro? One way could be to scale down the dmg ratios after health lost, but this is a disadvantage for the drone player, because he has no individual drones to micro and can't save a single, damaged, drone from being destroyed. And the enemy-player has an huge advantage, because he just needs to lock on one bigger target, instead of many little ones.
A balanced solution would be a combination of both solutions: Treading the drones as one single group on the targeting side, but as single, individual units, for the enemy. The attack circle could be synchronized between the drones of the same type or between drones with the same attack circle (?).
Ok, that's all i have. I hope that will help to fix this random mess. My "solution" is under guarantee not the best, but that's how i would fix the problem.
PS: my english is not the best, but i hope everybody understands what i mean ;) |
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Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC
17
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Posted - 2011.10.11 16:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
I ejected 5 drones in my cyclone yesterday, they were damaged from previous fight and soon as I launched them they became "incapacitated"....I never died tho but still...very annoying.
Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Svaste
The Scope
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2011.10.12 00:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
"But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, GÇ£ItGÇÖs not what you say, itGÇÖs what you do,GÇ¥ that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward." -Hilmar
Show us that these are not just words.
1. Explain why CCP chose to break drones. What functionality did we gain for what we lost?
2. Examine the drone-breaking code added with Incarna and revert it back to the less broken code before Incarna.
3. At the very least, take the time to read this thread, the threads from the old forums and the bug reports and don't ask us to re-type information already given.
4. Post something. The lack of communication on this issue is unacceptable.
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
1
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Posted - 2011.10.12 18:25:00 -
[103] - Quote
Svaste wrote:"But enough talk from me. We all know that much quoted phrase, GÇ£ItGÇÖs not what you say, itGÇÖs what you do,GÇ¥ that will make the difference here. From now on, CCP will focus on doing what we say and saying what we do. That is the path to restoring trust and moving forward." -Hilmar
Show us that these are not just words.
1. Explain why CCP chose to break drones. What functionality did we gain for what we lost?
2. Examine the drone-breaking code added with Incarna and revert it back to the less broken code before Incarna.
3. At the very least, take the time to read this thread, the threads from the old forums and the bug reports and don't ask us to re-type information already given.
4. Post something. The lack of communication on this issue is unacceptable.
Its ccp... they wont fix drones.... they cant even take the time to enter live server and see what the issue is... |
Phoebus ApolloX
Reasonable People
Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2011.10.14 02:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
This problem has been driving me mental, fix this please. |
Gefgarion Ankatar
Lamellar
Vorpal's Edge
1
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Posted - 2011.10.14 12:03:00 -
[105] - Quote
Same issues with drones as everyone else. (Among numerous other issues that showed up with Incarna)
It would be nice if some of the Devs actually spent some time on the live server and then put in some effort to fix these problems. I've given up on trying to file petitions and reports as it is becoming obvious they dont want to actually attempt to do anything useful. |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
2
|
Posted - 2011.10.16 18:18:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :(
Still alive over there Greyscale?
|
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
3
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Posted - 2011.10.18 12:05:00 -
[107] - Quote
Vaako Horizon wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Just spent an hour poking at this and totally failing to get a reproduction for drones switching targets. Tried with Hammerheads, Gardes and Ogres, tried issuing target orders just before, just after, and a second after the target died, and even tried hacking the Ogres to have a10s RoF to see if that'd help. In all cases they're working as advertised (focus fire and aggressive).
Obviously this problem is still happening in the wild, but it doesn't seem to be reproducing on our internal test servers which makes it somewhat difficult to track down. I'll try and give it another poke later in the week and see if I can find anything more, but right now I don't have a whole lot to go on :( Still alive over there Greyscale?
Any GM/DEV out there that wanna throw a poke to greyscale for me? |
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CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:29:00 -
[108] - Quote
Was at a conference all last week, sorry. |
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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
7
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:36:00 -
[109] - Quote
I am going to look into this further today, I will update this thread with more information as soon as I have it.
CCP Affinity | Quality Assurance | Team BFF |
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Shuckstar
Hauling hogs
Swine Aviation Labs
49
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Posted - 2011.10.18 13:56:00 -
[110] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:I am going to look into this further today, I will update this thread with more information as soon as I have it.
Pls watch the fraps and read whole thread all you need to know is in here, you just gotta do the hard bit and try fix it......
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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
8
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Posted - 2011.10.18 14:23:00 -
[111] - Quote
Shuckstar wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:I am going to look into this further today, I will update this thread with more information as soon as I have it. Pls watch the fraps and read whole thread all you need to know is in here, you just gotta do the hard bit and try fix it......
I have done already :) We are working on this and I will keep you updated
CCP Affinity | Quality Assurance | Team BFF |
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Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
4
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Posted - 2011.10.18 15:23:00 -
[112] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Shuckstar wrote:CCP Affinity wrote:I am going to look into this further today, I will update this thread with more information as soon as I have it. Pls watch the fraps and read whole thread all you need to know is in here, you just gotta do the hard bit and try fix it...... I have done already :) We are working on this and I will keep you updated
Please do that ( you ccp'ers have said that before and nothing ever happened... )
And I am not talking about in a few weeks time but as you get the info... regardless if its only an "oh, there the problem is, now we can work towards a fix" |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
4
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Posted - 2011.10.19 19:52:00 -
[113] - Quote
Cant help but notice the silence....
I suspect both Greyscale and Affinity have "forgotten" ( read ignored ) to actually bother trying to find out :P
Like doing WiS stuff instead... |
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CCP Affinity
C C P
C C P Alliance
12
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:29:00 -
[114] - Quote
Vaako Horizon wrote:Cant help but notice the silence....
I suspect both Greyscale and Affinity have "forgotten" ( read ignored ) to actually bother trying to find out :P
Like doing WiS stuff instead...
I am on it... please just understand we have been through a very difficult time.
Team BFF are working on defects for these issues, they are *not* by design and we are investigating the causes.
CCP Affinity | Quality Assurance | Team BFF |
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Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
193
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Posted - 2011.10.20 11:38:00 -
[115] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Vaako Horizon wrote:Cant help but notice the silence....
I suspect both Greyscale and Affinity have "forgotten" ( read ignored ) to actually bother trying to find out :P
Like doing WiS stuff instead... I am on it... please just understand we have been through a very difficult time. Team BFF are working on defects for these issues, they are *not* by design and we are investigating the causes.
I think the problem lies in a particular portion of the drone AI code. I'm not sure its exactly like this, but apparently it takes 3 to 4 seconds after the target is destroyed for the drones to enter idle mode (if its on passive) or to switch targets (if its agressive). And if i give a command to the drone before it properly changes state it will acknowlodge my command then change to whatever state it was meant to be.
Is it something like this?
Drones shooting target A;
.
.
.
Target A is dead;
.
.
.
Target A is dead, changing state (idle/switch target)
So if i do this:
Drones shooting target A;
.
.
.
Target A is dead;
Player command for drones to shoot target B;
Drones shooting target B;
Target A is dead, changing state (idle/lock Target C)
It might be that the player gives a command to the drones before the drones themselves can realize what just happened, and then their AI kicks in. As if the player gives a new command to the drone before the drone can check to see if its previous target is dead.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
197
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Posted - 2011.10.20 12:14:00 -
[116] - Quote
Renan Ruivo wrote:
It might be that the player gives a command to the drones before the drones themselves can realize what just happened, and then their AI kicks in. As if the player gives a new command to the drone before the drone can check to see if its previous target is dead.
thats a much better way of describing:
Bienator II wrote:@CCP Greyscale without knowing the code (obviously): this all sounds like a concurrency issue where the "receive player order" action isn't processed for all drones in a critical section. A race condition between game mechanics (agress next target) and the player action.
:)
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Renan Ruivo
Hipernova
Vera Cruz Alliance
195
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Posted - 2011.10.20 12:37:00 -
[117] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:
It might be that the player gives a command to the drones before the drones themselves can realize what just happened, and then their AI kicks in. As if the player gives a new command to the drone before the drone can check to see if its previous target is dead.
thats a much better way of describing: Bienator II wrote:@CCP Greyscale without knowing the code (obviously): this all sounds like a concurrency issue where the "receive player order" action isn't processed for all drones in a critical section. A race condition between game mechanics (agress next target) and the player action. :)
Not exactly. Were it merely a "race", the player action would supercede the game mechanics. As it is, if the player action is made before the game action, it will get ignored.
So basically if you want it to work without a hitch, you need to allow the game mechanics to win the race because you can never win it yourself.
Sometimes the only difference between a budding genius and a blooming idiot is where they chose to take a stand. |
Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
308
|
Posted - 2011.10.20 12:53:00 -
[118] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Vaako Horizon wrote:Cant help but notice the silence....
I suspect both Greyscale and Affinity have "forgotten" ( read ignored ) to actually bother trying to find out :P
Like doing WiS stuff instead... I am on it... please just understand we have been through a very difficult time. Team BFF are working on defects for these issues, they are *not* by design and we are investigating the causes.
Thanks
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Lord Okinaba
Zandathorn Industries
1
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Posted - 2011.10.21 11:13:00 -
[119] - Quote
Why is this still not in the 'Known Issues' section? |
Vaako Horizon
Casual Slackers
Daily Operations
5
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Posted - 2011.10.21 11:32:00 -
[120] - Quote
CCP Affinity wrote:Vaako Horizon wrote:Cant help but notice the silence....
I suspect both Greyscale and Affinity have "forgotten" ( read ignored ) to actually bother trying to find out :P
Like doing WiS stuff instead... I am on it... please just understand we have been through a very difficult time. Team BFF are working on defects for these issues, they are *not* by design and we are investigating the causes.
Well... atleast we got an answer to a question that has been out there for a long time... ( said "they are *not* by design" )
Now for the rest of the questions.... |
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