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Caldari damage bonus... wtf?

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Lirt Ceratias Holboelli	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:49:00 - [211] Edited by: Lirt on 05/03/2008 00:49:45 Originally by: Alex Raptos Oh and also, your character can aparently fly all T1/T2 caldari ships and T1 and T2 missiles/hybrids, AND FLY all the way up to leviathan? i just hate to call bull**** on your little parade there, but you (Lirt) were created in 2006.03.12 15:06. You have no standings to agents / npc corps, so you have never killed a rat or done a mission, your sec standing is 0.0 so you don't PvP, (Or you pvp in 0.0 and are either very lucky and kill just the right people to fund your ships/do alot of trading), You have also only ever been in your own corporation. So, you are either an alt (My bet) or someone who just enjoys doing nothing. Either post with the character you play with and show you have the balls to Back your own statement or stop talking for possably 2/5th of the eve community (The caldari missile user) with an alt, or just stop posting. This character is obviously an alt, did i ever said it was my main? Why you go into all that trouble to check employment history, creation day etc etc. Its an ALT. Why i dont post with my main? Well for start, if you read the whole topic you would have noticed the amount of flaming anyone gets when it posts about balance issues. They even call you a troll, cause you try to say something. So no i dont want to put all that 'flame burden' on my main and especially on my main's alliance, cause it would surely result to a corp and alliance flaming if i posted with main. YOU even do that with my alt as well as the other troll that flamed the name of my corp. Do i need to explain more? And after all why post with main, whats the point? to prove you i fly every caldari ship? i dont care to do that. I indeed fly every caldari ship even the titan and if you are jealous its not my problem. Both are my chars, why am i forced to post with my first character? cause you say so? thats also one of my characters and i use whatever char i want to post on forums. -------------------------------------------------- "Assumption is the Mother of Screw-Up"
Jimi Tetro	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:57:00 - [212] Its not about Fair/Unfair as you put it. This game isnt designed so that all races are the same, its about balance between the races. Caldari are not underpowered and the kinetic bonus is just one of their traits. Infact many would argue that Caldari are overpowered on the whole.
Tsanse Kinske WeMeanYouKnowHarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:22:00 - [213] Originally by: Tarron Sarek Ah well, let's see. Originally by: Lirt Amarr damage bonus------------58% EM / 42% Thermal Gallente damage bonus---------58% Kinetic / 42% Thermal Minmatar damage bonus---------46% EM / 36% Exp / 18% Kin or 78% Exp / 22% Kin Caldari damage bonus----------100% Kinetic 'ONLY' There, kinda fixed it. For starters. There's a lot of problems with that, but the biggest one is that the Caldari line would actually read: "Caldari Missile Ships except Raven----30% Kin / 23% EM / 23% Therm / 23% Exp" Actually that sums up why this whole thread is silly, right there. It's ridiculous to complain about the Kinetic damage bonus limits damage types, when already no other weapon system can select damage so well. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. -Douglas Adams, writing about EVE
w0rmy M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:41:00 - [214] Originally by: Lirt WHY ONLY KINETIC! Because they get other bonuses... you know, like the being able to fire at targets while jammed bonus. Its a balance thing... and if you dont understand it now, you never will. Originally by: CCP Oveur I'm very sorry w0rmy, I beg your forgiveness. Originally by: Dianabolic I was never sworn to secrecy, w0rmy, sorry to dissappoint you.
Lirt Ceratias Holboelli	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:44:00 - [215] Quote: like the being able to fire at targets while jammed bonus. I know i said i wont post again but i just loled at this... -------------------------------------------------- "Assumption is the Mother of Screw-Up"
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:48:00 - [216] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Lord WarATron Kinetic is a good damagetype to be honest. Indeed. It could be much worse. You could be stuck with EM like Amarr. Shields down! oh wait.. did we just hit a brick wall? EM is one of the best damage types tbh since the resist nerf. Gallente T2 lowest resist is usually EM. Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:58:00 - [217] Lirt jojo? dont forget the caldari rail ships that get kin/therm. oh and raven gets luck with a rof bonus instead of a kin damage bonus. kestral gets a 5% em/therm/ex 10% kinetic bonus too. that and people love to say that gallente can change their damage type too, just wait until you look at the damage mod on drones!
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:00:00 - [218] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Lord WarATron Kinetic is a good damagetype to be honest. Indeed. It could be much worse. You could be stuck with EM like Amarr. Shields down! oh wait.. did we just hit a brick wall? EM is one of the best damage types tbh since the resist nerf. Gallente T2 lowest resist is usually EM. The changes on SISI? Oh yeah baby. Those are gonna make a bunch of Ammar haters stand up and go Ooomph! when it and the new Apocs broadside hits tranq. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:15:00 - [219] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Lord WarATron Kinetic is a good damagetype to be honest. Indeed. It could be much worse. You could be stuck with EM like Amarr. Shields down! oh wait.. did we just hit a brick wall? EM is one of the best damage types tbh since the resist nerf. Gallente T2 lowest resist is usually EM. The changes on SISI? Oh yeah baby. Those are gonna make a bunch of Ammar haters stand up and go Ooomph! when it and the new Apocs broadside hits tranq. Hells yea!
Minsuki	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:29:00 - [220] Originally by: Stuart Price Edited by: Stuart Price on 04/03/2008 21:20:46 To the OP: Caldari solo pvp difficulties have nothing to do with damage and everything to do with mass, speed, agility powergrid and cap. The tradeoff being of course that I kick large amounts of posterior as part of a gang. I don't even need to ask what ship I'm needed in for gangs, since it's either Rokh, Falcon or Crow. Hell, my crosstraining into other races ships seems purely to allow me some fun when NOT in a gang. Win-win for me really. I can only assume you HAVE no friends and thus must ***** and whine about Caldari pvp. I wonder how that could have possibly happened since your posts thus far give no indication as to your loneliness... This. Also, kinetic damage is the best damage type.
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.05 05:01:00 - [221] Originally by: Lirt Edited by: Lirt on 04/03/2008 16:48:00 Yea i can play with explosive for example and nullify the damage bonus!!! (the bonus that i get after days of training) Yea smart choice. ROFL... HOW DARE I USE MISSILES DEPENDING ON THE SITUATION WTF!?
Skjorta	Posted - 2008.03.05 05:41:00 - [222] Dear OP, We heard your point the first 10 times you stated it. We thought it was a dumb point and tried to show you why. Stating it again and again only makes you look like a whining ****. Sincerely, Eve Community
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.05 06:29:00 - [223] Originally by: Zeba Oh yeah baby. Those are gonna make a bunch of Ammar haters stand up and go Ooomph! when it and the new Apocs broadside hits tranq. Fortunately I'm Caldari so not only arn't affected by this change but get an EM missile damage boost. And if people try to fill that gap I get an Explosive damage boost Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Vahkn	Posted - 2008.03.05 06:50:00 - [224] So just to summarize; caldari should have the best starting stats, the best mission ships, arguably the best damage type after factoring typical tank resists, the best market hub on their doorstep, and now.. also another races damage type? 80% of all players play Caldari.. do you think that might just be a clue that the game is already massively imbalanced in their favor?
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.05 06:56:00 - [225] Originally by: Lirt Originally by: Xennith remind me, which caldari ships have a bonus to only kinetic damage? caracal, drake, raven, kestral and erm... crow right? why not try flying something else, the scorpion is made of crystalised win for example. Also cerberus, nighthawk, phoenix, hawk and i might miss some more... Onyx. And I love my Kinetic damage. Anything else would be IMBA because I get to choose my damage type \/ ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.05 07:09:00 - [226] Originally by: Lirt Edited by: Lirt on 04/03/2008 16:29:54 Edited by: Lirt on 04/03/2008 16:28:46 Amarr damage bonus------------EM/Thermal Gallente damage bonus---------Thermal/Kinetic Minmatar damage bonus---------All Caldari damage bonus----------Kinetic ONLY Wtf? why such an imbalance issue keeps existing? And dont tell me "you cant change damage type" cause i will laugh till tomorrow. Thats the damage type i take bonus, why in the EVE god's name should i change damage type? to get pwned?... Like caldari are not already the worst race for pvp and fleets... CCP give caldari some love!!! Make it Kinetic/Explosive 1) Last I checked the Raven had a ROF bonus (and several other Caldari ships have the same) so a bonus to all the damage type. 2) on the other ships you don't have a bonus to "only 1 type of damage" you have a bonus of x% for ship ship skill level, like all the other players. It apply only if you use the right weapon (kinetic missiles), like other players get the bonus only if they use the right kind of weapon (large railguns, large lasers, ecc.). Some Caldari ships apply it only to a specific size of launchers, other to all the size.
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.05 07:25:00 - [227] op is right. caldari should get a bonus to any damage type. they should also get 100% shield resist to all damage types. actually to make it more fair only caldari ships should be able to fire weapons.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.05 07:39:00 - [228] Originally by: Black Scorpio Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Lirt Anarchyyt: you can say all you guys want, but you still didnt say me a good valid reason why caldari gets only kinetic bonus. Al you say is adapt or play kitty online. Well i already adapted this unfair situation cause im caldari, but i think its time balance it. Because it really isn't unfair. Amazingly enough, there are many times when I am not using Kinetic missiles in my Caldari ships. And often they DO MORE DAMAGE. Exactly, so you just wasted your ship's bonus.. while a Gal char, keeps his 7.5 tracking, Amarr char keeps his 10% cap bonus, Minnie char keeps his 5% speed.. and so on... And your Raven (and several other ship) keep its ROF bonus (an lose no kinetic bonus as it hasn't it)?
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.05 08:08:00 - [229] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Black Scorpio Exactly, so you just wasted your ship's bonus.. while a Gal char, keeps his 7.5 tracking, Amarr char keeps his 10% cap bonus, Minnie char keeps his 5% speed.. and so on... And your Raven (and several other ship) keep its ROF bonus (an lose no kinetic bonus as it hasn't it)? Don't forget the velocity bonus that you dont lose by changing ammo types. Really, I see nothing wrong with missiles atm... Explosion velocity maybe, but I haven't had too many problems with them ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Rawr Cristina Caldari Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.05 08:11:00 - [230] Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Actually that sums up why this whole thread is silly, right there. It's ridiculous to complain about the Kinetic damage bonus limits damage types, when already no other weapon system can select damage so well. Some people are never satisfied ... .
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.05 08:34:00 - [231] Originally by: pershphanie op is right. caldari should get a bonus to any damage type. they should also get 100% shield resist to all damage types. actually to make it more fair only caldari ships should be able to fire weapons. get back to your control tower!
MenanceWhite Amarr Fruit Fellatio	Posted - 2008.03.05 10:32:00 - [232] I don't even understand why other people have has bothered to reply this topic untill it's hit 9 pages at all. I mean, just read OPs replies in the first page. Then check the other posts the OP has made in the forums. Is there any use replying? --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur
pershphanie Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.05 10:39:00 - [233] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin Originally by: pershphanie op is right. caldari should get a bonus to any damage type. they should also get 100% shield resist to all damage types. actually to make it more fair only caldari ships should be able to fire weapons. get back to your control tower!
Thorexion Lynch Gallente 0-1ST Fighters Legion of Liberation	Posted - 2008.03.05 11:11:00 - [234] um from what i can remember from my days of oohing and aahing at all the ships when i started out, dont caldari have a 10% bonus to kinetic, then a 5% bonus to all other damage types? ps dont quote me on it as im not fully sure if im right. .:PredaThor Strikes Again:.
Laila Eldgorn	Posted - 2008.03.05 11:28:00 - [235] Nice to see so many clueless people around. First of all damage bonuses have nothing to do with ecm, do don't drag it here. While I think OP is missing some points, there's still few ships which could use their damage bonuses checked. Drake ad raven both get bonus to all damage types, instead of just kinetic, which gives them chance to choose damage type, thus making decent damage. Missiles generally have very low dps compared to any other weapons and you're supposed to change your damage type accordingly to keep up decent dps. However, if you have only kinetic damage bonus it doesn't really work that way. It is generally useless to shoot any other damage type than kinetic if you have kinetic damage bonus only, even if it would help a bit changing ammo will take long enough to make the gain useless. In my opinion, the major problem with missiles is explosion velocity, it really should be adjusted so missiles can actually hit something. For "to hit" purposes velocity bonus generally is useless for anything else than getting a bit range, it doesn't help on hitting stuff as long as target doesn't go faster than missile. Now I am not saying that all ships should have bonuses on every damage type of missiles but it might be good idea to consider giving better bonuses on some ships. What comes to superiority in PvE all that is uh... pretty much false. For all I know ishtar (gallente cruiser) will outdamage most of ratting ravens (caldari battleship) in a pvp fitting and speed tanks the missiles. So go figure. Of course it's not all that simple. Just saying maybe you might consider using astarte for those level 4's?
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.05 12:47:00 - [236] Edited by: Avon on 05/03/2008 12:51:02 The OP is wrong, or at least misguided, but most of the responses are equally limited. The problem is people arguing over the minutae, without actually looking at balance as a whole. The racial specifications and roles, as I remember them are: Caldari: Long Range & ECM, primary damage Kinetic. Racial Weapon Systems: Railguns & Missiles. Tanking Method: Shield (therm) Vs Gallente: Short Range & Sensor Dampners, primary damage Thermic. Racial Weapon Systems: Blasters & Drones. Tanking Method: Armor (kin) and Amarr: Medium/Long Range, primary damage EM. Racial Weapon Systems: Beam Lasers & Pulse Lasers Tanking Method: Armor (exp) Vs Minmatar: Medium/Short Range, primary damage Explosive. Racial Weapon Systems: Artillary & Autocannons / Missiles Tanking Method: Armor/Shield (EM) Ship bonuses are supposed to reinforce the racial roles. Caldari vs Gallente Caldari should be fighting at long range, using range and ECM as defence. Gallente are meant to rapidly close range and engage, using sensor dampners to mitigate damage until in range. Amarr vs Minmatar Amarr use lasers to maintain mid range damage advantage, and tank incomming damage. Minmatar skirmish, either sniping at long range using their inherent speed advantage to maintain that range, or fight at extreme close range to outdamage Amarrian ships. The complementary racial aspects also reinforce the Empire relationships. Caldari/Amarr and Gallente/Minmatar ships work well together vs each other. The overall balance works well against "native" racial enemies, and also in the larger factional conflict. The Hybrid weapon system itself has caused some problems for balance. Really Railguns and Blasters should have been seperate trees, with their own ammo. This would have made it easier to enforce racial roles, and bonuses. The Megathron, for example, should have a blaster bonus, not a hybrid bonus, and blaster ammo should do more thermal damage than kinetic. Game balance changes, and new ships, should help strengthen racial roles, rather than move everything towards the middle ground (that's what Khanid ships are for :P). Caldari missile ships, for example, should be getting missile velocity bonuses rather than damage bonuses to reflect the fighting at range Caldari ethos. If a damage bonus is favoured it should either be gained as a straight Kinetic bonus, or a ROF bonus where that would not be overpowered. Ultimately ships seem too good/bad (reflecting badly upon the race) when they are used outside of the stereotypical racial role. If we go back to the Megathron we see that it is the favoured sniping ship in a fleet because the tracking bonus it needed to effectively use blasters becomes a huge advantage when using Tech II long range railgun ammunition, making it better than a similarly equiped Caldari ship designed for that role. Ultimately the whole thing boils down to one key question: Should the ships of Eve have specific racial features? There are perfectly good arguements for and against. However, people tend not to consider these when they argue about balance. They tend to focus on FOTM, rather than the bigger picture. Personally I am a huge fan of the original vision for the racial roles (bring back the rail raven tbh), but following that through ultimately leads players to feel restricted. I am fortunate that I can fly all the race's ships, but players with less time invested may feel constricted by their choices, and may favour a more generic approach to balance. Horses for courses, I guess. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Daelin Blackleaf Naqam	Posted - 2008.03.05 12:56:00 - [237] tl:dr got through the first few pages though. The OP actually has a point. The reason Caldari missiles only get a bonus to kinetic is that missiles were not intended to be a primary weapon system. Each race was given a single damage-type bonus to their missiles. The Minmatar, with their slit weapon systems, had to use missiles a lot and so got a flat out damage bonus without type. Later when Caldari were made the missile race nothing was changed. When Khanid MkII was released CCP changed the rules for several of their ships realizing the crapstorm there would be if they forced them all to use EM missiles, but again didn't address Caldari missiles. It is not a large disadvantage, kinetic is one of the middling damage types reasonably good against both armor and shields, but it does provide a disadvantage if you have good intel on the enemy or they have good intel on you. Having to ditch an entire ship bonus, in my view, is just plain dumb, and that does leave the ship at a heavy disadvantage. Saying "just use a different missile type" is like telling a Matari to fit blasters on his tempest. Does it need addressing: Yes Is it the end of the world for Caldari pilots: No
Rahvin Damodred The White Star Consortium Tenth Legion	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:11:00 - [238] Edited by: Rahvin Damodred on 05/03/2008 13:13:37 "Pia Fidelis - Faithfull and Loyal"
Turzyx	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:31:00 - [239] This is an MMO. Stop focussing on your contribution for the entirety of a fight and look at the whole. Damage type increases for specific races is good because in a mixed fleet battle it encourages/forces people to set up their tanks for ALL damage types. Caldari already have an advantage in that they can change damage type at a click of a button, which is why you have a boost to only 1 damage type on Caldari.
Wrayeth Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.03.05 13:46:00 - [240] I've always been of the opinion that hamstringing Caldari missile boats with a kinetic-only bonus was a Bad IdeaÖ. I've belabored the point in many other threads over the past year, so I'll just state this: change the Caldari bonus to affect all missile damage types. It'll never happen (just like nanos will probably never get nerfed), though. -sigh- -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire "Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!"

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