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Bohoba
dragons nest imPure.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 14:46:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Miss Anthropy Caldari ships need some physical love more than anything else. They are ugly. Uglier than a moose's rectum.
Hey no they'er not :)
Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
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Matrixcvd
Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 14:53:00 -
[32]
i think the problem is that people pick caldari, like i did, because it closely resembles their RL life society, pretty much mimics western culture. Ok, so thats why there are alot of us. Second, you start off missioning, doing things on your own. 3rd, you start trying to PVP and get ganked by people who don't look like you and you start to cry, and wonder why are they better, why are they faster, why are they stronger? Sound familiar???
What you have got to realize, my fellow caldari players is, you are in an MMO, 1v1 or what your single ship can do is relatively pointless argument. Caldari happen to be the easiest to understand and train for, but the most nuanced and demanded race in a fleet fight in the game. FC's will pick a falcon over an istar any day of the week (provided gang size etc). All of the caldari ships have their place. The emphasis on fleet does leave the solopwnmobile status to other races. I see no reason to touch anything on caldari ships atm, they are working just fine
1 suggestion, caldari should crosstrain Minmatar and then you will start to really learn how to fly caldari ships much more effectively.
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.03.14 14:57:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Alz Shado on 14/03/2008 14:57:00 Yes, the Caldari truly are teh sux at PVP, and noone would ever use them for such. ------------------- "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Bohoba
dragons nest imPure.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:05:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Alz Shado Edited by: Alz Shado on 14/03/2008 14:57:00 Yes, the Caldari truly are teh sux at PVP, and noone would ever use them for such.
Fielded VS survived are were you see how bad cald are at pvp
Windows VistaÖ Ultimate x64-based PC Gigabyte X38-DQ6 Processor Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Extreme CPU Q6850 Memory 4,093.69 MB 2X Crossfire ASUS EAH3870/G/HTDI/512M Radeon HD 3870 512MB
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Alz Shado
Ever Flow
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:19:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Bohoba
Originally by: Alz Shado Edited by: Alz Shado on 14/03/2008 14:57:00 Yes, the Caldari truly are teh sux at PVP, and noone would ever use them for such.
Fielded VS survived are were you see how bad cald are at pvp
Canon Fodder is a legitimate combat role. ------------------- "Kill a man one is a murderer; kill a million, a conqueror; kill them all, a God." -- Jean Rostand |
Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:26:00 -
[36]
Problems with caldari:
-Cannot both tank and scramble. So theyre great in pitched battles, the tourney bears this out, but horrible in real pewpew. Maybe need a t1 highslot scrambler or something. -Range is good in pve, but warp scramblers tend to mean most fighting happens within 20km. Main thing I would change here is make HAM and torp use slightly less grid, as all the other close-range guns are more fitting-friendly than the long-range ones. -Caldari has the most problems against nanolaming, though this is more an issue with the nanos. We need a speed nerf that makes sense, and addresses the problem and not just makes the nanolamers go to the next level of boosters/implants/metalevel gear for the same bonus (the problem isnt the guy who puts 1-2 speed mods on for a tactical advantage, its the guy who puts 5+ on to be untouchable). Best solution I see is a longer range, less powerful webifier. _________________ [IMAGE REMOVED] -- aka Cpt Bogus -- Is that my torped sig cloaking your base?
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:30:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 14/03/2008 15:32:28
Originally by: Queen Killerz
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Drake can actually be rather awesome for PvP, just 98% of the EVE Population fit them with horrible useless passivetank setups
When they give the drake some BALLS(DPS) then it truly be awesome pvp ship.
Passive tanking drakes (IS THE BEST SETUP!) They are great tanks, just lack in the DPS department.
Haha, what a fool. Supertanked passive-regen Drakes are no use to anyone. Consider yourself one of the 98%. Drake is a fantastic ship, gang and solo - I'll never fly another BC.
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Ki An
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Del Narveux Problems with caldari:
-Cannot both tank and scramble. So theyre great in pitched battles, the tourney bears this out, but horrible in real pewpew. Maybe need a t1 highslot scrambler or something. -Range is good in pve, but warp scramblers tend to mean most fighting happens within 20km. Main thing I would change here is make HAM and torp use slightly less grid, as all the other close-range guns are more fitting-friendly than the long-range ones. -Caldari has the most problems against nanolaming, though this is more an issue with the nanos. We need a speed nerf that makes sense, and addresses the problem and not just makes the nanolamers go to the next level of boosters/implants/metalevel gear for the same bonus (the problem isnt the guy who puts 1-2 speed mods on for a tactical advantage, its the guy who puts 5+ on to be untouchable). Best solution I see is a longer range, less powerful webifier.
But there are poor(er) ships in any racial line-up. Caldari has arguably the best gank-BS, a pretty decent nano-ship, A good sniper BS, a BC with the best tank of them all, one of the best T1 frigs for newbs, monopoly on the best kind of ECM and one of the fastest (if not the fastest) interceptors in the game. Not to mention that Caldari rules PvE.
I really don't see the need for a boost. Sorry.
Filiolus of Bellum is recruiting
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Johnster
Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:34:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Attonasi There just needs to be a general tracking boost to all guns to deal with speed tanks and a general velocity boost/duration reduction for all missiles. This isn't necessarily a Caldari problem just a general speed tank vs. tracking/velocity issue. Boosting Velocity/reducing flight time would take care of the other caldari problem too.
And t2 missiles suck tbh but then again most t2 ammo sucks. That is thanks to a bunch of whining newbs though.
/signed.
However it is more a missile problem then a gun problem, guns at least hit sometimes, while every missile never makes it to the target.
200%+ speed boost to missiles is need. They will still do very little damage to a fast ship, but at least they will hit.
You and your alliance will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
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Imperator Jora'h
Hedion University
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:35:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Del Narveux Problems with caldari:
-Cannot both tank and scramble. So theyre great in pitched battles, the tourney bears this out, but horrible in real pewpew. Maybe need a t1 highslot scrambler or something.
Your scramble IS your tank. It is supposed to be either/or...not both.
Fly Amarr sometime...they have zero option to scramble even if they want to (many Amarr ships are lucky to fit the Holy Trinity). At least Caldari have the option.
-------------------------------------------------- "Of course," said my grandfather, pulling a gun from his belt as he stepped from the Time Machine, "there's no paradox if I shoot you!"
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Hasak Rain
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:37:00 -
[41]
All i am seeing are a bunch of "Boost me!" threads popping up left and right no doubt because Amaar was boosted so people figure if they make all these threads, they will get their solo pwn mobiles or boosts for other races whther they need them or not.
Keep it up, it only took the Amarr players 3 years to get halfway unnerfed.
To the nooblet OPer: If you want to fly nanos, go train Minmater. You know, a race which excels in those setups? Instead of expecting the devs to change an entire race just for you.
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Wierd Beard
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:43:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Wierd Beard on 14/03/2008 15:46:10 This is the one thing I find absurd. That a ship, any ship, that has things like life support, a cargo hold and all the little things that make sustaining human life viable in space, can possible out accelerate an object that is essentially a motor, fuel and maneuvering thrusters with a big hunk of explosives on the end.
Even with the suspension of disbelief inherent in a Sci Fi setting, like the magical devices that keep you from being squished to jelly as your crow accelerates to 15km/s. It's hard to believe that if you can do it with a ship, you can't do it with an unmanned tube of motor and boom juice.
Also, since the torp was remade to fill in the rocket/HAM/blaster/autocannon/pulse laser role...how about the velocity and ROF bonus that is implied with these smaller, closer range weapons? Initially it seemed that the Cruise Missile was filling that role, even though it had a superior range. Lighter damage, higher ROF and better damage against smaller targets. Nowadays, neither seems to fill the role in the same vein that all the other turrets/launchers do.
I do agree with most posters on the subject of ECM. There is a reason that Falcons, Rooks and Scorps are still primary in most fleet battles. And that overall Caldari ships are best able to shine in group combat vs solo encounters. But not all Caldari ships are ECM ships. And sometimes you're just sick of large scale engagements or shooting at POSs. So it'd be nice to have something other than a Gistii Crow w/ a full set of snakes to go out and solo in. And no, I'm not gonna build up a Minmatar alt.
Missiles don't need a drastic boost. Just give me a chance to be on par with other race's primary weapons system. Let a cruise missile have a ghost of a chance to apply damage to a ship before everyone else in the gang has dropped 5 volleys. If a torp is supposed to be a giant rocket, drop the damage on them and give me a similarly scaled ROF to a HAM or rocket launcher. And ffs, a player ship should not be able to sustain a higher speed, nor out accelerate an unmanned missile short of being in warp. Their signiature size and the explosion velocity variance should be enough of a cookie to keep the nano crowd still happily spending billions on implants and named gear.
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Johnster
Mining Bytes Inc. Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:48:00 -
[43]
^ /signed
A side effect of faster missiles would also be reduced lag (less in motion at any time)
You and your alliance will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.
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MITSUK0
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2008.03.14 15:52:00 -
[44]
The crow/flycatcher/onyx are good solo ships if you use them right.
The drake is vastly under rated as a solo ship, ditch the 10 slot passive tank and go for large hitpoint pool + dmg mods. It can reach 80k+ ehp and 500(ish) dps while having mwd+tackle.
I'm sure others can solo too though I'm not experienced in them personally.
Oh and caldari have top notch role based ships for gang work. Falcons and freshly buffed Eagles especially. Torp raven is a *****mobile for small gang work, 4600(ish) dmg a volley, 1000(ish) dps with 30km optimal.
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Ulstan
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.03.14 16:01:00 -
[45]
It's true that caldari ships aren't good for soloing, but they have several ships that are good in gangs.
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Aprudena Gist
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.03.14 16:04:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Queen Killerz Torpedo Launchers ( Do I need to say more? ) Hit with the NERF BAT - Whiners Won!
Bottom Line Caldari Just need to have more DPS to compete with ( Rail Guns ) Or Maybe CCP Can just nerf ( Rail Guns )
Why do people keep failing to understand this?
Torps were both nerfed and buffed. They had their range nerfed and damage (effectively) buffed. And this was to (*gasp*) bring them in line with every other weapon system in the game!
Autocannons = Short Range/High Damage; Artillery = Long Range/Low Damage Blasters = Short Range/High Damage; Railguns = Long Range/Low Damage Pulse = Short Range/High Damage; Beams = Long Range/Low Damage Torps = Short Range/High Damage; Cruise = Long Range/Low Damage
OMFG! Would you look at that! It makes sense! What were the Devs thinking!
And a torp Raven can be downright brutal now at close range...it has damage in spades. No problems there.
This is stupid btw.
Torps have more fitting requirements then Cruiser Missles wtf blasters/auto/pulses are all easier to fit why are missles backwards?
They should really just scap missles alltogeather because they are so far different from guns its far to hard to balance correctly and put in particle discharge weapons.
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Zarquon Beeblebrox
Muchacho's
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Posted - 2008.03.14 16:05:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 14/03/2008 16:05:46 The caldari ships is the best PVP ships in the game.
Why else would everyone use it for 1on1 pvp, fleet battle PVP. Even in the alliance tournament everyone was using caldari ships.
Lady Beeblebrox
Tundragon & Teddybears Memorial Forum
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Shemaul
A.C.M.E Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 16:26:00 -
[48]
I guess caldari is the wrong race if u want some dogfight. They really are superb if u cooperate. Great firing support, some great tacking (crow), excellent electronic warfare.
We just need others in gang to be effective, but we do our job better than anyone else.
Caldari ships: noone wants to fly them alone, everyone wants them as wingman. Easy.
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Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
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Posted - 2008.03.14 17:16:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Eventy One on 14/03/2008 17:15:57 The problem with 'fixing' Caldari is that at least half the community want Caldari fixed one way, and the other half want Caldari fixed in exactly the opposite way.
In the last two days, I've seen both opinions: Caldari are way underpowered .... Caldari are way overpowered ....
*shrugs*
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Esmenet
Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.14 17:32:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Del Narveux Problems with caldari:
-Cannot both tank and scramble. So theyre great in pitched battles, the tourney bears this out, but horrible in real pewpew. Maybe need a t1 highslot scrambler or something.
Caldari are not solo pvp ships. Get for instance a raven + a crow and fight a BS+Inty from another race and you might understand. (or any other gangsetup of choice).
Quote:
-Range is good in pve, but warp scramblers tend to mean most fighting happens within 20km. Main thing I would change here is make HAM and torp use slightly less grid, as all the other close-range guns are more fitting-friendly than the long-range ones.
Torps are fine but hams are a problem yes. There is plenty of sniper action, but then you use the caldari railgun ships.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2008.03.14 17:50:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Eventy One Edited by: Eventy One on 14/03/2008 17:15:57 The problem with 'fixing' Caldari is that at least half the community want Caldari fixed one way, and the other half want Caldari fixed in exactly the opposite way.
In the last two days, I've seen both opinions: Caldari are way underpowered .... Caldari are way overpowered ....
*shrugs*
This is normally a pretty good sign that something's fairly well balanced.
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Vitrael
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.03.14 17:52:00 -
[52]
Quote: when are they going to fix caldari????
Oh sweet love of Jove, we just boosted the already potent Amarr. Now we're starting in on "boost Caldari?" No, you can't hit a Vaga with torps. No, you can't snipe with artillery fleets using cruises. No, you can't nano a Nighthawk (don't test me on that.)
Caldari are still immensely powerful, boasting an extremely damaging, high alpha, high range, damage-type choice weapon system that uses no capacitor.
The Raven is now quite possibly the most versatile short-range damage dealer, hitting out to 30 with high skills for nearly 1000 DPS when gank fit. The Cerberus has immensely fast missiles and can flyswat nanoships and also nanos itself. The Crow is the best damage dealing inty. The Onyx tanks like wild and deals great damage for a heavy dictor. The Falcon is arguably the single most important gang ship in the game. The Drake is a PVP monster, you just need to fit it differently from 98% of Eve (put a MWD on it!) Hell, the Eagle and Moa just got more turrets.
Quit complaining about Caldari. No entire race needs a boost. There are some ships that are lacking (Maller, Bellicose for example). But there is no gimp race.
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Agent Li
Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.03.14 17:57:00 -
[53]
Possible solution:
Raise the velocity on all missiles and rockets, so that they are four times faster than any possible nano ship (at a minimum).
Pare down their flight time, to keep the range the same.
Raise the explosion velocity as well. If these are "nuclear" weapons, or the sci-fi equivalent, the explosion velocity of major fission fragments is going to be in the 20,000km/sec range, which should obviate any velocity that your ship can achieve.
If you wanted to fly a nano, you would have to stay well out of missile range. ------------------
Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire. |
000Hunter000
Missiles 'R' Us
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Posted - 2008.03.14 18:11:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Paeniteo CCP, please fix Caldari citizens! Their population has gotten out of control
Good thing i'm not Caldari then
But to get back on topic, yes please give caldari SHIPS some loving!!! Please spoil me some more!!! _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
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General Meridus
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.03.14 18:27:00 -
[55]
So you want to kill Hacs with Caldari?
I have spent the last month or so on test, working on anti Hac/speed fits. I started with Caldari. With a lot of failures, I am now able to knock them down at will. One can easily stalemate a Vaga with a Caracal with the right fit. A Raven knocks them all out of the FFA arenas.
The idea was to keep the fits somewhat realistic. So, tech-II, but no implants, drugs, or faction fits. (Although this is a very high skill point Character.
Raven
Explosion velocity is your friend. I see some crazy fits on test, so if they go down there, they will go down anywhere. Highs are 6 X cruise with precision missiles. 2 X Heavy Neuts. Let the pilot come to you. Fire a few rounds, once in range engange the Heavy Neuts. He now has little or no cap, which equals no speed. (If its a Zealot, he also now has no guns.) Blast away.
Mids are Sensor Booster, and tank. I run a passive set up with one hardner. Your not there to duke it out, just knock em down, and move to the next target. I don't web, or scramble. If using the right racial missile, they will go down fast, or at worst fly away. (remember the range of cruises)
Lows are 3 X Ballistic Control Systems, and whatever grid fittings you need to make the above fit. On my ship its 2X ECCM, for anti jamming. I don't care if I'm webbed or scrammed, cause they're gonna die long before me.
Remember two things have to happen for this to work. 1st your missiles have to be fast enough to hit the darn thing. (Not too much of a problem with cruises.) 2. the explosion velocity has to be as high as possible for them to take damage. This is where rigs come in.
Rigs for me are 2 X Warhead Flare Catalyst, and 1 X Hydraulic Bay Thruster. I only use tech-I rigs. You may want to play around with these, depending on your own skills. Your sig radius should already be low enough if your fitting this type of tech-II set up. Rinse repeat.
So far only one pilot has worked out a ship to defeat the above. He was able to fit an Ishtar to move at over 4.5km,in an orbit outside of Neut range. He was able to maintain this speed forever, and tackle from that range. Ogre II's then ate my ship. Normally Ishtars go down like cardboard. I doubt I'd ever see such a fit on the live server. (But I had to hand it to him, I'd blasted about 60 Hacs, and he's the ony one to figure it out.
Caracal
Same idea here, but don't expect to actually destroy the Hac. However, you can fight them to a standstill.
Highs are 5 X Assault Launchers, with precision lights.
Mids. This is the key to this set up. Its a massive passive tank. Don't worry about hardeners. Remember the Caracal aready starts with a fast shield recharge time. I can easily get 11k shields, using large extenders. On other setups, I crammed as much as 13k shields on a Caracal. With the normal 11K, remaining mids are used for shield rechargers. Don't worry about sig radius of your ship. Yeah, its gonna be large. Don't worry about speed, the Caracal's a slug anyway. This is about your average Hac pilot swooping down on a jucy target, only to face a tank he can't barely beat, and missiles chewing him up.
Lows are Shield Power Relays. They use little grid, and increase your shield recharge rate. Don't worry about fitting BCU's. Too much power, better served on your tank. This is not a gun boat fitting.
If your rich, again your fiting rigs for explosion radius.
As a side note, this set up burns through Interceptors like you wouldn't believe. It can tank and beat about 4 at once. Now you can see the limitations of this. There's no tackle. Caracal's super weak point is being jammed. ALWAYS carry FOF missiles. But I tell you the surprise of this always gets em. Most Vaga pilots will fly away, rather than risk the humliation of going down to a tech-I cruiser.
Other Caldari ships are the same, explosion velocity, explosion velocity.....
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Rawr Cristina
Naqam
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Posted - 2008.03.14 21:55:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Queen Killerz
Originally by: Rawr Cristina Drake can actually be rather awesome for PvP, just 98% of the EVE Population fit them with horrible useless passivetank setups
When they give the drake some BALLS(DPS) then it truly be awesome pvp ship.
Passive tanking drakes (IS THE BEST SETUP!) They are great tanks, just lack in the DPS department.
Best at what exactly? Being the last one to die?
Drake is perfectly capable of Tank & Gank (and no, that's not even with perfect skills. It's also pre-Trinity 1.1 so some resists are wrong, but you get the point.) ...
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BattleDragon
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.14 23:08:00 -
[57]
Well Alot of great input and i got to try some of the setups. just wish they fix the missiles but what the hell
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Thenoran
The People's Liberation Army
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Posted - 2008.03.15 00:18:00 -
[58]
What I don't get is why the Vulture isn't getting a sixth Turret slot like its T1 counterpart (Ferox)... ------------------------
Mining over 4000m3 per cycle...with a Rokh |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.15 00:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Queen Killerz
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: Queen Killerz Torpedo Launchers ( Do I need to say more? ) Hit with the NERF BAT - Whiners Won!
Bottom Line Caldari Just need to have more DPS to compete with ( Rail Guns ) Or Maybe CCP Can just nerf ( Rail Guns )
Why do people keep failing to understand this?
Torps were both nerfed and buffed. They had their range nerfed and damage (effectively) buffed. And this was to (*gasp*) bring them in line with every other weapon system in the game!
Autocannons = Short Range/High Damage; Artillery = Long Range/Low Damage Blasters = Short Range/High Damage; Railguns = Long Range/Low Damage Pulse = Short Range/High Damage; Beams = Long Range/Low Damage Torps = Short Range/High Damage; Cruise = Long Range/Low Damage
OMFG! Would you look at that! It makes sense! What were the Devs thinking!
And a torp Raven can be downright brutal now at close range...it has damage in spades. No problems there.
What amuses people on paper often does not reflect real time. And after your done with the OMFG Maybe you can compare APPLES with ORANGES. But honestly.. "Caldari Ships will never be PVP ships in my eyes"
I approve of this attitude. It means that other people get primaried.
CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.03.15 01:29:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Thenoran What I don't get is why the Vulture isn't getting a sixth Turret slot like its T1 counterpart (Ferox)...
Because then it would be better than the sniper HAC at sniping, and better than all the other fleet commands at doing damage.
And really, we don't want to give the Eos whiners more ammunition now, do we? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? |
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