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petition to remove NPC ECM

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Earl de'Hamsterdam The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:20:00 - [31] Originally by: Kransthow Originally by: Earl de'Hamsterdam B: FoF missiles cut your DPS in half. Who uses these in missions? People who are jammed? So you swap out your ammunition when you're being target jammed? What do you get off like 1 volley, and then switch back? Sounds like a pain in the ass.
Anaalys Fluuterby Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:23:00 - [32] Just make them follow the rules so ECCM works. My alt was jammed for 18 consecutive cycles the other night in one mission. Got 2-3 minutes of firing off and was then jammed for 12 more cycles. In a level 2 Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Anaalys Fluuterby Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:26:00 - [33] Originally by: Dr McTurtle A: ECCM works. without ECCM I get jammed like you do, with 2 midslot ECCM I get jammed maybe 1-2 cycles per hour. Wrong. The Devs stated a couple of months ago that ECCM jamming is a straight percentage chance based on the rat. ECCM has no effect, nor does your ship's sensor strength. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Ma'ax A'ax	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:29:00 - [34] so what you are saying is you aren't a mission specialist, and you really don't know how to run missions efficiently, so can ccp pretty please make it easier for you. not signed.
Earl de'Hamsterdam The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 06:41:00 - [35] Originally by: Ma'ax so what you are saying is you aren't a mission specialist, and you really don't know how to run missions efficiently, so can ccp pretty please make it easier for you. not signed. What I'm saying is that PVP is fun, fighting in low-sec is fun. Running missions and spending hours changing my ammunition type to shoot off a volley or two, and repeatedly doing this, is not fun, and I find it amazing that anyone alive or dead would disagree.
Andrue Federation Of Space Loonies Culture Shock Initiative	Posted - 2008.03.15 09:10:00 - [36] Edited by: Andrue on 15/03/2008 09:11:30 Learn which rats jam (it's not all of them) and target them first. If you do that it's less of a problem. The chance of them jamming seems to be inversely proportional to their size. Frigates jam more frequently than BS. ..and don't bother wasting your time fitting ECCM it has no effect. Oh, and @ the OP:Sorry but you are carebear. You are asking for the game to be changed because you can't adapt. Classic symptoms. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Alex Raptos The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2008.03.15 09:30:00 - [37] I'm neutral to it all, I mean, I run 2 (soon 3 >.>) characters in missions, one tank, one Main damage, and soon a logistics for those missions that my tank just sucks to when at its best. In my experience guristas are probably the easiest to tank, and 3 / 4 races main weapon systems damage is effective (EM not counted, though its not the worst rat to come up against) The only challenging thing about them is the ECM, but in my experience I've been non-stop jammed for up to 5 minutes at a time, got off two volleys (which in a nighthawk is about 10 seconds) and then I'm off to make food for another 5 minutes. Its all about if you aggro too many HAC/Assault Frigates with your Battleships, which in some of the missions is inevitable. My vote is, make Rats follow the same rules as players with ewar.
Strak Yogorn Mind Warpers United Corporations Against Macros	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:34:00 - [38] no.. missions dont need to be easier, but harder.
Vanessa Vasquez planet eyeQ Ultio Animi Causa	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Strak Yogorn no.. missions dont need to be easier, but harder. i totally agree. I love beeing ECMed, webbed, disrupted, but i admit it wouldn't be bad to get get a counter against. ECCM should work against NPCs imo.
Jolliejoe Quad Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:49:00 - [40] Edited by: Jolliejoe on 15/03/2008 10:50:12 Missions are pathetic as far as bounties go... And you want to make them even less? LOL. What black hole do you come from? Missions should become challenging, not just harder or less worth. How about some random triggers or some unexpected things? But again, bounties are pathetic so don't touch that.
Ga'len Your Assets Relocated and Redistributed	Posted - 2008.03.15 10:58:00 - [41] Put simply, no. It's a normal game mechanic, it's balanced and it works as intended. Leave it alone.
Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:07:00 - [42] i fully agree with the OP and would like everyone to hear my tale of woe. i was in 0.0 and not only did the npcs use ewar on me they also shot at me. This really is not on, the npcs were only worth a million isk each. Can we make the following changes. No ewar No shooty shooty And perhaps make them a billion isk bounty. - - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
Aquidus Nefron Department of Defence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:27:00 - [43] As much as this may sound like whining, I have to agree. Being out ratting in 0.0, taking a near 30 min to kill 3 dire cruisers is very anoying, and drones take forever to chew through um, unless you are in a drone ship. I spend double if not triple the missiles on these guys because by the time I can fire again, they have fully regained their shield. I don't think he want ECM and other EW completly removed, but anychance it can be lowered, or less affective? If we are doing missions or ratting, it's not because we are trying to simulate pvp, if i wanna do that, i go pvp. there is plenty of PVp in this game, would be nice to make money so I could do it more.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2008.03.15 11:44:00 - [44] Edited by: Pohbis on 15/03/2008 11:47:06 Oh noes! Te mizions r 2 hard! Come on, seriously, you were drunk posting this right? Right?! Why don't you just ask for a button you can push every hour, that gives you 20m so you can go PvP some more? If you can't run missions, you don't deserve to get to use it as an income for PvP. You love to PvP? Get better at that instead then... oh, no you need sec status I see. Get better at ganking then ;)
Failway State War Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 12:11:00 - [45] I think ECM should stay, combat in a futuristic game should be more than trading bullets.
Brainless Bimbo Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.15 12:25:00 - [46] lol, did you know it happens on lvl 1 missions too, its easy to live with if you use what's between your ears. Now that those ships are "icon'd" in your Overview its even easier, you know who to keep your distance from, who to target with long FoE missiles or drones. this thread is a pointless whine with no substance. ...... continues overleaf.
Miki Fin Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2008.03.15 13:30:00 - [47] Originally by: Orin Valari Okay. I am not a carebear. You are the definition of carebear. "Oh noes!! I can't do something!! CCP, you must change the game to suit me!!
Orin Valari The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:21:00 - [48] hahaha man you guys are vindictive little jerks! "adapt or die" Sounds pretty hard man, mission running is serious business! I am absolutely amazed that people think rats using ECM is cool and that being frustrated by it means I can't hack it in EVE. you guys are too funny :) I love internet tough guy syndrome. Anyways, all I'm saying is that it's annoying as hell, adds nothing to the enjoyment of the game. I don't propose making missions easier. Hell, I wouldn't mind if they were harder either... but make them hard in a FUN way not a "oh cool jammed AGAIN" way. I agree with the poster that said random triggers or something would be sweet, expect the unexpected, have to think a little bit! The fact is, PVE in EVE is BORING. fixing ECM would help a tiny bit, and make it less frustrating.
Orin Valari The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:24:00 - [49] Originally by: Ga'len Put simply, no. It's a normal game mechanic, it's balanced and it works as intended. Leave it alone. how is NPC jamming balanced? How would removing it (but compensating for making the missions easier in some way) make it unbalanced? NPC jamming is not balanced, it is frustrating.
Hasak Rain Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 14:39:00 - [50] I fly missions for Amarr and occasionally get offered a Gurista mission. I just refuse them. They are a huge waste of time and there is nothing fun about sitting there spamming the target button.
Earl de'Hamsterdam The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:32:00 - [51] Originally by: Pohbis Edited by: Pohbis on 15/03/2008 11:47:06 Oh noes! Te mizions r 2 hard! Come on, seriously, you were drunk posting this right? Right?! Why don't you just ask for a button you can push every hour, that gives you 20m so you can go PvP some more? If you can't run missions, you don't deserve to get to use it as an income for PvP. You love to PvP? Get better at that instead then... oh, no you need sec status I see. Get better at ganking then ;) Oh noez, I r like being target jammed, itz funz! I support the "push button" idea, so long as we can still push it while we're having the time of our lives being target jammed and waiting for dire NPC's shields to regenerate.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:33:00 - [52] ECCM, Drones, FoFs or bring a wingman. 4 ways to counter this without CCPs involvment.
Earl de'Hamsterdam The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:34:00 - [53] Originally by: Miki Fin Originally by: Orin Valari Okay. I am not a carebear. You are the definition of carebear. "Oh noes!! I can't do something!! CCP, you must change the game to suit me!! In that case, bring back nanophoons.
Earl de'Hamsterdam The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:35:00 - [54] Originally by: Lord Fitz ECCM, Drones, FoFs or bring a wingman. 4 ways to counter this without CCPs involvment. If you use ECCM, drones, or FoF's then you pretty much have to bring a wingman. So, zero ways to solo a mission in a reasonable amount of time.
Ioci Ioci Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:47:00 - [55] Mission 'difficulty' does leave alot to be desired. 4 waves x 4 deadspace x 3 orbit ranges = many, many, many trips back to base to refit. ECM to pretty much make the mission an Objective only mission works fine for me because most of these ECM junky NPCs drop the same garbage all the other ones do. As to what to do to make it harder, I'm not sure. There is my problem. I don't know what to say to fix it so I can't file too much complaint. As far as making the NPC's tank better. Fight a guardian. All kinds of resists there and they rep back much faster than I do with no visible cap reduction. Though they do take short breaks, if you don't have optimal damage type, it's usually just long enough for you to get to 90% to then watch them rep it all back while you go on a 5 minute miss fest. Sorry, I don't need more of that time sink.
Jaketh Ivanes Do Or Die And Live Or Try The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Dr McTurtle A: ECCM works. without ECCM I get jammed like you do, with 2 midslot ECCM I get jammed maybe 1-2 cycles per hour. Wrong. The Devs stated a couple of months ago that ECCM jamming is a straight percentage chance based on the rat. ECCM has no effect, nor does your ship's sensor strength. The dev's might have stated that, but my experience ingame is different. I've done The Assault (loads og Gurista ships) in a Geddon with and without ECCM. When it was without ECCM, i was jammed a lot. When I used an active ECCM, the jamming went down a whole lot and I finished the mission in about 1 hour or so.
Lord Fitz Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.15 15:57:00 - [57] Originally by: Earl de'Hamsterdam Edited by: Earl de''Hamsterdam on 15/03/2008 15:37:35 Originally by: Lord Fitz ECCM, Drones, FoFs or bring a wingman. 4 ways to counter this without CCPs involvment. If you use ECCM, (only) drones, or FoF's then you pretty much have to bring a wingman. So, zero ways to solo a mission in a reasonable amount of time. This just in: Eve-Online is a multiplayer game. ECCM is not going to slow you down any. Drones can kill the ECM ships and then you can kill the rest normally. If you're doing this in a BS, you have plenty of drone space for this. It won't take long. If you bring someone else you can do the missions faster anyway. I think that's something they're trying to encourage as much as possible, originally lvl 4 missions were supposed to be totally impossible to solo. It didn't take long before everyone threw that theory out the window.
Esmenet Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:00:00 - [58] There is just a single mission that features heavy jamming. Dont take it. If you still cant handle it, go mission outside (shock) of caldari space.
Orin Valari The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:03:00 - [59] I can't take the heat so I guess I really should just get out the kitchen.
Earl de'Hamsterdam The Sycorax Syndicate The Cooperative	Posted - 2008.03.15 16:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Lord Fitz This just in: Eve-Online is a multiplayer game. ECCM is not going to slow you down any. Drones can kill the ECM ships and then you can kill the rest normally. If you're doing this in a BS, you have plenty of drone space for this. It won't take long. If you bring someone else you can do the missions faster anyway. I think that's something they're trying to encourage as much as possible, originally lvl 4 missions were supposed to be totally impossible to solo. It didn't take long before everyone threw that theory out the window. I don't know how many Guristas level 4's you've done, but even the NPC ravens can target jam. It's nice being able to solo things, but maybe that's just me, becuase I don't pay for multiple accounts.

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