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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.04.14 11:03:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Jazz Bo on 14/04/2004 11:04:54
 Quote:
Well point is.... Warp stabs have no penelties and that was the reason Cap relay got nerfed..
Why would Warp Core Stabilisers need a penalty?
It seems to me that only cap/shield power relays and cap/shield flux coils have a penalty that affects another attribute, most other modules have a stacking penalty, some modules have no penalty at all.
The problem with cap power relays is that the penalty they're supposed to have is meaningless.
Another way of solving the problem would have been to remove the shield recharge "penalty" and make them have a stacking penalty instead...
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2004.04.14 12:29:00 -
[32]
Surely if they are nerfed your ass will be caught more?
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Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.04.14 12:56:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Surely if they are nerfed your ass will be caught more?
Yeah maybe... but thats not the point..
But this will get worse and worse until everyone is fitting as many warp stabs as they have slots for and it will be impossible to catch anyone and i dont think CCP ment for that to happen when they got warp stabs into low slots..
Maybe 1 - 3 but not 8 cant imagin that
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Cmdr Sp0ck
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Posted - 2004.04.14 13:17:00 -
[34]
Anyway even if people do use them, they are sacrificing ALOT to use them. Anyone fighting wont use that many stabs because they wouldn't be able to do anything but run.
I don't agree with nerfing the warp stabs, just as i don't agree with the cap relay nerf and with the Apoc/laser weapons nerf.
The more you nerf the more imbalances you create and the more you ruin the game.
Warp stabs are fine the way they are. They are a EW countermeasure, and most of them are passive.
What could be a good idea is to create mid slot as well as low slot warp stab versions, just like the ECCM backup arrays. That would surely fix alot of other related problems 
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"You humans are extremely irritant with your illogical behaviour and irrational thought"
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DREAMWORKS
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Posted - 2004.04.14 13:26:00 -
[35]
Last time we had 5 warpscramble strenth on a megathron and it warped...  Its used too much...
__________________________
http://www.nin.com/visuals/thtf_hi.html |
Heff
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Posted - 2004.04.14 15:21:00 -
[36]
Quote:
In my opinion warp core stabs aren't imbalanced because they can be countered with x amount of warp scramblers. (Besides, it's being revamped)
AGREED! A ship using stabilizers is sacrificing offensive capability for defensive capability. Who says that a single pirate should be able to catch an opponent who is geared toward getting away? If you want to catch a hyper-stabilized ship, then get more freiends with more scramblers.
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PirateShampoo
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Posted - 2004.04.14 15:27:00 -
[37]
Quote:
Quote:
u whiners ever heard of mobile warp disruptors?
I'm sure they have, but they would lose a lot of isk every time they warp away when more than one ship warps in.
No, much more cheaper and easier to get Warp Core Stabilisers nerfed.
absolutely I mean its to hard to haul a mobile disruptor out there and plus if you fit alot of warp disruptors in your medium slots you'll just get pwned by the people you disrupt. Yeah just nerf the Stabs... Much better for the people that arent smart enough to jam 1 guy with 4-5 stabs.
So what if your ship is crippled if you fit disruptors! THEY CRIPPLE THEIR SHIP BY PUTTING THE STABS IN THEIR LOW SLOTS!!! I know this is quite a concept but they could have fit cap relays or 1600mm plates or damage mods or tracking enhancers but instead they fit the stabs... why? BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO BE JAMMED. THEY ARE GIVING UP THEIR LOW SLOTS TO STOP 1 SCRAMBLE. EACH SCRAMBLER DOES 2 SCRAMBLES IF YOU CANT FIGURE A WAY TO BEAT WARP STABS STFU... EVERYONE JUST STFU ALL TOGETHER. jesus friggin christ mang. lol... Does anyone else understand this???
I'll explain it one more time just to make sure.
1 warp core stab = stopping 1 scramble
1 close range scrambler = 2 scrambles
Person you want to kill has 7 low slots. They put 5 warp stabs and 2 overdrives to take it somewhere.
YOU WOULD STILL ONLY NEED 3 SCRAMBLERS TO TAKE THEM DOWN!!!!
wow what a concept.... stop complaining.
Its balanced. If you dont have enough people or dont want to run the 3-4 scramblers yourself just dont camp gates and expect to stop someone with 4-6 stabs fitted. thats it.. simple... so simple...
Do you like movies about Gladiators? |
DeathBunny
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Posted - 2004.04.14 15:39:00 -
[38]
Even better if you want defense still and you can risk money drop a mobile warp disruptors around the gate. Whala instant warp scrambling field that all u gotta do is web the sorry bastard that went into the field.
Each way has its speciality, and no one person can guess someones config 100% correctly on a tempest, apoc, raven, or mainly a scorp. This is why the games so good. You don't know what others have and you risk everything every time you engage in battle.
Warp Core Stabilizer = 30CPU
Warp Scrambler = 30CPU
Warp Disruptor = 40CPU
Now who really pays more to not be scrambled in combat? Ones that scramble long distance because they can't get in close or don't want to, and the ones that want to warp out if they need too.
If you start nerfing some basic equipment might as well nerf the whole fricken line while your at it. Making Warp Scrambling/Disrupting even harder also.
Why don't you take your percious skill points and slight intellegence and do some good for the community. Slap some mining lasers and start selling ore/minerals at cheap prices.
Fear The Bunny
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Foomanshoe
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Posted - 2004.04.14 15:46:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Yeah!
Nerf everything!
Warpcore stabs, mwd's, eccm, nanofibers - and improve warp disruptor to 150km and 15strength (maybe add bonus of -50 radar/ladar/gravimetric/magnetometric strength.. oh maybe energy drain too - all in one, ofcourse), while only need 1 tf and 1 mw tp fit it and 5 cap every 2 minutes to use...
I LIKE IT!! 
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Teeth
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Posted - 2004.04.14 16:35:00 -
[40]
Stabs are fine. There's nothing wrong with a module that can be perfectly countered 1 for 1 with one module type and 2 for 1 with another. Their fitting requirements might be the one thing that you could argue is a bit too light, but that's debatable.
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Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.04.14 22:55:00 -
[41]
Quote:
Anyway even if people do use them, they are sacrificing ALOT to use them. Anyone fighting wont use that many stabs because they wouldn't be able to do anything but run.
I don't agree with nerfing the warp stabs, just as i don't agree with the cap relay nerf and with the Apoc/laser weapons nerf.
The more you nerf the more imbalances you create and the more you ruin the game.
Warp stabs are fine the way they are. They are a EW countermeasure, and most of them are passive.
What could be a good idea is to create mid slot as well as low slot warp stab versions, just like the ECCM backup arrays. That would surely fix alot of other related problems
Okok they sacrifice alot when using them if they want to fight.... But as it is now its no danger for an Armageddon to travle in 0.0 space if it has its instant bookmarks and the low slots with warp stabs and you think that isnt a to good module?
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.04.14 22:56:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Anyway even if people do use them, they are sacrificing ALOT to use them. Anyone fighting wont use that many stabs because they wouldn't be able to do anything but run.
I don't agree with nerfing the warp stabs, just as i don't agree with the cap relay nerf and with the Apoc/laser weapons nerf.
The more you nerf the more imbalances you create and the more you ruin the game.
Warp stabs are fine the way they are. They are a EW countermeasure, and most of them are passive.
What could be a good idea is to create mid slot as well as low slot warp stab versions, just like the ECCM backup arrays. That would surely fix alot of other related problems
Okok they sacrifice alot when using them if they want to fight.... But as it is now its no danger for an Armageddon to travle in 0.0 space if it has its instant bookmarks and the low slots with warp stabs and you think that isnt a to good module?
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.04.14 23:10:00 -
[43]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
u whiners ever heard of mobile warp disruptors?
I'm sure they have, but they would lose a lot of isk every time they warp away when more than one ship warps in.
No, much more cheaper and easier to get Warp Core Stabilisers nerfed.
absolutely I mean its to hard to haul a mobile disruptor out there and plus if you fit alot of warp disruptors in your medium slots you'll just get pwned by the people you disrupt. Yeah just nerf the Stabs... Much better for the people that arent smart enough to jam 1 guy with 4-5 stabs.
So what if your ship is crippled if you fit disruptors! THEY CRIPPLE THEIR SHIP BY PUTTING THE STABS IN THEIR LOW SLOTS!!! I know this is quite a concept but they could have fit cap relays or 1600mm plates or damage mods or tracking enhancers but instead they fit the stabs... why? BECAUSE THEY DONT WANT TO BE JAMMED. THEY ARE GIVING UP THEIR LOW SLOTS TO STOP 1 SCRAMBLE. EACH SCRAMBLER DOES 2 SCRAMBLES IF YOU CANT FIGURE A WAY TO BEAT WARP STABS STFU... EVERYONE JUST STFU ALL TOGETHER. jesus friggin christ mang. lol... Does anyone else understand this???
I'll explain it one more time just to make sure.
1 warp core stab = stopping 1 scramble
1 close range scrambler = 2 scrambles
Person you want to kill has 7 low slots. They put 5 warp stabs and 2 overdrives to take it somewhere.
YOU WOULD STILL ONLY NEED 3 SCRAMBLERS TO TAKE THEM DOWN!!!!
wow what a concept.... stop complaining.
Its balanced. If you dont have enough people or dont want to run the 3-4 scramblers yourself just dont camp gates and expect to stop someone with 4-6 stabs fitted. thats it.. simple... so simple...
Ok so how will you warp jam someone on jumpin with a 7500m scrambler... Everyone use instant BM so that is it... Cant stand where they come out of warp and wait for them...
Also if you have luck you are 20 km from them when you jump after but no chance in hell can you get within 7500m... If no being in a interceptor but then you have a max of 4 warp strength so that 5 warp stab setup blows it....
I hear you aint camping gates... You look at a module and imagin some picture of how you can do it... But you cant
Samt thing with warp distruptors.... 5 km but the area to cover is 13 km radius on from the gate...
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Clain Matta
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Posted - 2004.04.15 01:34:00 -
[44]
Perhaps to balance this we must balance both. Since WCS are low slot/passive modules, perhaps warp scramblers/disruptors should be an area effect (like the smartbombs)and/or low slot/passive module. Just my idea, what do you people think.
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Squirrel
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Posted - 2004.04.15 02:42:00 -
[45]
this arguement has been going on for along time in many different threads....basically the biggest concensus is to either
A) make ship class specific stabilizers, that have req increases like the MWD's do now so u couldn't mass 8 on an armaggedon even if u tried or..
B) make them medium slots and make them activatable again..so u are actually sacrificing some defence or useful modules to give yourself the ability to possibly run when warp scrambled..
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Carfax > guys, please dont pvp here, it messes up the avoid pd kill zones autopilot option |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.04.15 02:54:00 -
[46]
warpcore stablizers are okay.
i'd say make them medium slot again but that would kind of suck for a lot of ships with no medium slots, like armageddons and stuff.
its kind of annoying to see ships warp away but i guess fair is fair.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
dalman
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Posted - 2004.04.15 03:16:00 -
[47]
Edited by: dalman on 15/04/2004 03:27:06
*hint*
This guy isn't getting away:
Quote:
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:07 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:08 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:09 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:09 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:10 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:20 ] (notify) Interference from the warp TONY1 VOTF is preventing your sensors from getting a target lock on them.
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:21 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:22 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:33 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:34 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:37 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "Zelota [VOTF]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:39 ] (notify) x [R-I] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:40 ] (notify) x [COL] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "Nem3sis [NGRU]"
[ 2004.04.10 21:54:40 ] (notify) x [R-I] has started trying to warp scramble the Battleship, "MoNuMeN [CRICE]"
Your battleship has medslots because you're supposed to use them...
...and frigates has a purpose...
M.I.A. since 2004-07-30 |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.04.15 08:54:00 -
[48]
Quote:
this arguement has been going on for along time in many different threads....basically the biggest concensus is...
in fact that they are fine.
The real problems in the scenarios given above are instajump BMs and, to a lesser extent, multi-MWD setups. They need a good going over, not WCS.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Artegg
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Posted - 2004.04.15 11:47:00 -
[49]
Hehe this post is funny hey toast did someone get away
Guess what not every pilot who flys through pureblind is meant to be killed by you when you undock
Here are a few idea i have to help you out
1) How about you get a interceptor add some warp scramblers and hunt your prey down. If you have 2 -20 scramblers on then trust my you will catch 95% of your prey. But i guess that is not fair for you right because that other 5% can get away.
2) Use warp disruption fields, I guess that is to much risk for you to take now right.
3) Move to around in space so people do not know what system you are going to be in. I am not talking about jumping between j-c and x-7o go try some other area's were the locals will not be thinking everytime i go to empire i am going to pass the spang i had better load up with WCS.
any of the 3 above points will solve your problems. So lets stop crying NERF this and NERF that because 1 ship in 10 can not be stopped
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Nwalmaer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 12:09:00 -
[50]
Err, he has an Interceptor and I have lost 3 Crows catching Bships personally. Did I mention how much ass you all suck? The thing is, using a 10 million ISK ship that dies in one shot to catch a Battleship that will give you maybe 2-3 million in loot is madness, because the chance of your Interceptor living is very small... especially when you try to toll them and they stall your for ages.
It's probably the most effective way to catch people, sure, but how many battleships fly without FoF missiles and Drones? Both those will destroy your 10 million ship in no time at all, you won't have time to react.
And even then it's sometimes not enough time to get within scramble range. You usually end up 37km or so from your victim which means that flying at 3km/s will take you over 10 seconds to reach him. If your battleship don't warp in 10 seconds something is really wrong.
Yes, removing instajumps would solve the problem as they would have to run both MWDs and warp cores to get through, meaning their ship will be extremely vulnerable. But I was under the impression that CCP had no intention of removing instajumps this millenia, thus tweaking warp core stabilizers would be a logical choice.
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Gween
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Posted - 2004.04.15 13:15:00 -
[51]
..is all i see.
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Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
Coffee'n'Toffee makes Gween happy
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2004.04.15 13:25:00 -
[52]
instajumps do nothing but relocate the camping spot from the jump out to the jump in point, it's still easy to catch them there providing they don't fly a pod. or happen to enter aligned at a celestial body, even then a good crew should be able to gank an indy or bship and most cruiser.
imo the peeps that complain prob need to find a new career.
besides less peeps then you think use inta's since it's a ***** to make em. an no one flies a armageddon with 8 stabs. since it kills any pvp outfit.
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officer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 19:44:00 -
[53]
Quote:
Quote:
Anyway even if people do use them, they are sacrificing ALOT to use them. Anyone fighting wont use that many stabs because they wouldn't be able to do anything but run.
I don't agree with nerfing the warp stabs, just as i don't agree with the cap relay nerf and with the Apoc/laser weapons nerf.
The more you nerf the more imbalances you create and the more you ruin the game.
Warp stabs are fine the way they are. They are a EW countermeasure, and most of them are passive.
What could be a good idea is to create mid slot as well as low slot warp stab versions, just like the ECCM backup arrays. That would surely fix alot of other related problems
Okok they sacrifice alot when using them if they want to fight.... But as it is now its no danger for an Armageddon to travle in 0.0 space if it has its instant bookmarks and the low slots with warp stabs and you think that isnt a to good module?
No, its not to good a module. I think it has been explained several times. Warp stabs counter Warp scramblers. Warp scramblers are more powerful than the stabs and if you have several people with just 1 scrambler you will be able to stop them no matter how many stabs they have. If its just 1 frigate with 1 scrambler, why should you expect to scramble them anyway? Sorry if things arent going your way when you are trying to gank unarmed people lol. tard.
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officer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 19:50:00 -
[54]
Edited by: officer on 15/04/2004 19:54:28
Edited by: officer on 15/04/2004 19:52:45
Quote:
Err, he has an Interceptor and I have lost 3 Crows catching Bships personally. Did I mention how much ass you all suck? The thing is, using a 10 million ISK ship that dies in one shot to catch a Battleship that will give you maybe 2-3 million in loot is madness, because the chance of your Interceptor living is very small... especially when you try to toll them and they stall your for ages.
It's probably the most effective way to catch people, sure, but how many battleships fly without FoF missiles and Drones? Both those will destroy your 10 million ship in no time at all, you won't have time to react.
So basically nerf everything that kills interceptors? You try to scramble them so they shoot at you? Yeah nerf their ships... Moron.
An interceptor trying to scramble someone is obviously going to be the FIRST target in any battle. Use a vigil or a kestrel if you dont like the price of interceptors. stfu. lmao!
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Nwalmaer
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Posted - 2004.04.15 21:45:00 -
[55]
Go and die in a dark corner, please. I merely responded to the guy who told us to use Interceptors. Been there, done that, wasn't profitable.
Btw, the ship with the most slots for warp scramblers is the heaviest, slowest and has the worst targetting systems. You will not be able to do anything with eight warpscramblers as you will not be in range nor lock them in time. You will need several sensor boosters and microwarp drives, and suddenly your warp scramble strength will be that of a frigates. A ship with eight warp core stabilizers however, can be AFK and still have no problems. Is it to much to ask that pilots are actually at their computers when they get away from people trying to kill them?
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DarkStar251
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Posted - 2004.04.16 00:23:00 -
[56]
Lets Nerf every module. Guns let you shoot too much. Warp stabs let you warp, boosters let you lock quicker.
If we give every module a larger penalty then it has a bonus, then it eliminates all this. hell, better idea, take all the slots of all the ships, so they are balanced.
In fact, lets remove all ships from the game other than shuttles, then its balanced! But lets make them slower as its not fair on the asteroids they go fast. And i have a friend thats been playing 5 years and he has better skills than me, so lets make all skill training instant so i can catch up.
.........
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Jazz Bo
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Posted - 2004.04.16 10:13:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Go and die in a dark corner, please. I merely responded to the guy who told us to use Interceptors. Been there, done that, wasn't profitable.
It wasn't "profitable"? You know, it isn't really "profitable" to lose your 100m isk ship to pirates either, which I suppose is why people try to avoid it by using Stabs.
And if you always gate camp in the same place, no wonder people fit some Stabs if they have to go through it. If they didn't know you were there, they wouldn't (at least they wouldn't fit as many).
It's called Survival of the Fittest... stupid pirates can't catch anyone, they get bored, they quit.
Quote:
A ship with eight warp core stabilizers however, can be AFK and still have no problems. Is it to much to ask that pilots are actually at their computers when they get away from people trying to kill them?
If you can't kill pilots who are travelling through 0.0 while AFK you must really well and truly suck.
Originally by: DB Preacher
Celestial Apocalypse - Brave souls fighting the endless smak.
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Neil Crow
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Posted - 2004.04.16 10:25:00 -
[58]
Quote:
A ship with eight warp core stabilizers however, can be AFK and still have no problems. Is it to much to ask that pilots are actually at their computers when they get away from people trying to kill them?
No offence, but did you actually think this though? I think not.
Sure, at jump-in he'll most likely get away. What do you do then?
Warp after him, of course.
Web him and kill him. Since he can't warp away when he's AFK, and can't use MWDs when he's AFK, you'll kill him. 
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Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.04.16 13:05:00 -
[59]
Quote:
Quote:
Go and die in a dark corner, please. I merely responded to the guy who told us to use Interceptors. Been there, done that, wasn't profitable.
It wasn't "profitable"? You know, it isn't really "profitable" to lose your 100m isk ship to pirates either, which I suppose is why people try to avoid it by using Stabs.
And if you always gate camp in the same place, no wonder people fit some Stabs if they have to go through it. If they didn't know you were there, they wouldn't (at least they wouldn't fit as many).
It's called Survival of the Fittest... stupid pirates can't catch anyone, they get bored, they quit.
Quote:
A ship with eight warp core stabilizers however, can be AFK and still have no problems. Is it to much to ask that pilots are actually at their computers when they get away from people trying to kill them?
If you can't kill pilots who are travelling through 0.0 while AFK you must really well and truly suck.
Well thing is... If someone is travleing knowing there are pirates or not they fit as many warp stabs they can just to be sure...
So if im in X-7omu doesnt matter
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Queldonus
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Posted - 2004.04.20 14:24:00 -
[60]
Boo f***ing hoo.
Before you start screaming for nerfs, think about what you're asking. The problem is not warp core stabilizers, it's instant jump bookmarks. Without instant jumps, people have to actually run the blockade. Problem solved.
In fact that would open up a whole new angle of specialization, a blockade runner. |
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