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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.28 18:48:00 -
[541]
Everything has already been said/whined/whimpered/etc.
Lets fill this topic with similar to the above.....make those who might be interesting wade thru multiple blank pages but one line of not information....<G> Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Matari Wraith
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Posted - 2009.05.29 02:58:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Matari Wraith on 29/05/2009 02:59:24
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: The complaining other ninja salvagers have done in this thread about popping wrecks just being wasteful/pointless etc underlines the effectiveness of this counter.
Explain this. If someone starts popping wrecks, I fly around to each wreck to make sure that they blow up -everything-. How do they make more ISK doing this than they would just leaving it alone?
By "counter" i meant a tactic that discourages further ninja salvaging rather than a way to safeguard some of that "lost" salvage isk. Obviously blowing up your wrecks will not net you any more isk than leaving the wrecks to the ninja salvager but, at least for a noob like myself, catching only one or two of the large wrecks discourages me from continuing to take the time to scan down another MR with my awesome Probe frigate and astrometrics II skills.
My assumption, and perhaps where I'm wrong, was that the MR has concerns beyond maximizing their own isk/hour. If that's the only figure that matters to them then it's true popping the wrecks will gain them nothing.
Quote:
Quote: Yes, ninja salvaging is stealing
No. The reasons why it's not have been explained multiple times.
I've seen the arguments for and against but, IMHO, acquiring salvage that the mission runner would have acquired if not for my actions is stealing.
That said, I don't really understand the apparent need to deny and argue this point as this is Eve and stealing is not wrong in Eve. I will continue to steal from other players if it's the most efficient way to meet my objectives.
I'm not really looking to argue this point but rather just want to explain why I feel it is theft (and is ok).
/me shrug
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.29 03:33:00 -
[543]
Quote:
By "counter" i meant a tactic that discourages further ninja salvaging rather than a way to safeguard some of that "lost" salvage isk. Obviously blowing up your wrecks will not net you any more isk than leaving the wrecks to the ninja salvager but, at least for a noob like myself, catching only one or two of the large wrecks discourages me from continuing to take the time to scan down another MR with my awesome Probe frigate and astrometrics II skills.
My assumption, and perhaps where I'm wrong, was that the MR has concerns beyond maximizing their own isk/hour. If that's the only figure that matters to them then it's true popping the wrecks will gain them nothing.
Meh. Wreck popping has never been a factor in my, nor anyone else that I know's, salvaging motivation. We enjoy it. It conveys a sense of silent rage which is interpreted as tears.
Quote:
I'm not really looking to argue this point but rather just want to explain why I feel it is theft (and is ok).
Because since whether it's "theft" or not is only relevant in an ingame RP sense: they're stealing from the NPCs they popped.
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Muulti
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Posted - 2009.05.29 05:33:00 -
[544]
Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
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Stealnutz
Mean Angry Squirrels
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Posted - 2009.05.29 11:37:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Muulti Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
Concord usually fixes (attempted) boat-violencing of law abiding citizens.
lol at a SB killing a (proper) salvage boat
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Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.05.29 14:58:00 -
[546]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 29/05/2009 15:00:04
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Meh. Wreck popping has never been a factor in my, nor anyone else that I know's, salvaging motivation. We enjoy it. It conveys a sense of silent rage which is interpreted as tears.
The mission runner could of course be imagining the tears of the salvager.
win win ;)
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Elithria
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.29 15:43:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Muulti Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
5/10 would read again
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Antoine Roquentin
Spaceship Lullaby
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:52:00 -
[548]
Marauders aren't worth the effort in my experience. They're much more likely to get butthurt since they fit salvagers themselves and most will either abandon the mission or go afk when they see you 'stealing' from them.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:30:00 -
[549]
I hear people say that missionrunning is more profitable a lot of the time...but really, when you factor in looting, I'm starting to question this.
After spending maybe ~20 minutes in a Serpentis mission (which has crap salvage), I easily broke 10 mil...and I expect it to get even better once MWDs are allowed in missions.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.30 00:00:00 -
[550]
Originally by: Muulti Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
an SB would barely scratch my 1700m/s salvage frig. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.31 00:29:00 -
[551]
^^ That. Good luck hitting a target that is way to fast and too far out to web ... sometimes, I wonder about the player base here. ________________________________________________
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.05.31 07:27:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Antoine Roquentin Marauders aren't worth the effort in my experience. They're much more likely to get butthurt since they fit salvagers themselves and most will either abandon the mission or go afk when they see you 'stealing' from them.
lol
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:32:00 -
[553]
Quote:
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
OH please. A big, slow marauder vs ninjastabber?
He tractors the wrecks within 10km then I move slightly closer. I can nab the loot before he can, as well as start my salvage cycles earlier...and with Salvager IIs, I'm not likely to fail a cycle.
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LarcatOfRens
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:46:00 -
[554]
I feel like I should opine on this, being a relatively dedicated ninja salvager.
1) There is simply no better profession for a newbie. I played Eve about 2 years ago I could not stand either the boredom of mission nor the lack of real ISK rewards doing level 2s. Ninja salvaging gets me 20-50 mil an hour if I am grinding it as quickly as I can. For a 2 month old character, that is awesome.
2) We do it for the ISK, tears come second (most of us). MRs like to down play the actual ISK/hour Ninjas make, but when you factor loot in (especially if you get some Amarr Navy rat missions) it is feasible to make well over 40/hour.
3) Risk -- There are plenty of ways to lose your salvage ship. Usually, this is a fully rigged T1 frig, so you lose in the area of 30 mill uninsureable. It will happen, and even if it isn't player error, sometimes you will hit lag when a spawn comes in and get popped regardless of how much attention you are paying.
4) And to all the MRs crying that salvaging should flag... Oh god... Please... Please yes. Saves me the time of nabbing loot and gives me a way to aggro when there aren't any wrecks with loot in them :)
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Antoine Roquentin
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Posted - 2009.06.01 02:08:00 -
[555]
Originally by: temponita You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
Butthurt marauder pilot spotted!
You missed the point.
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Yozul
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Posted - 2009.06.01 03:12:00 -
[556]
I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
You're making salvagers a more hostile group of people by popping cans.
Actually, I find it pretty hilarious when people fly off into an impotent rage at me when I'm not doing anything wrong... I think I'll go add salvaging and astrometrics to my training queue now. |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:31:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Yozul I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
Popping wrecks is not counter productive, it keeps the ninja from getting isk.
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Yozul
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:58:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Yozul I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
Popping wrecks is not counter productive, it keeps the ninja from getting isk.
Your only goal is to hurt someone who's taking something that doesn't even belong to you anyway?
And you probably think that salvagers are jerks. You amuse me. |
Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.06.02 06:58:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Yozul Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
You're making salvagers a more hostile group of people by popping cans.
Actually, I find it pretty hilarious when people fly off into an impotent rage at me when I'm not doing anything wrong... I think I'll go add salvaging and astrometrics to my training queue now.
Nope, you don't sound like a jerk at all.
Salvaging other people's wrecks is a feature, being allowed to pop your own wrecks is a feature.
A new player could get into making a lot of isk very quickly via aiming straight for salvaging, but they could also end up wasting a lot of time if all the mission runners popped their wrecks.
Of course being a jerk is what all the cool kids do so enjoy jumping on this bandwagon.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.02 10:03:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Yozul
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Yozul I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
Popping wrecks is not counter productive, it keeps the ninja from getting isk.
Your only goal is to hurt someone who's taking something that doesn't even belong to you anyway?
And you probably think that salvagers are jerks. You amuse me.
I'm glad I amuse you
And no, my goal is to salvage and loot the wrecks myself, but if that isn't possible I will do my best not to have anyone else take it and I'd rather destroy it. If that is a problem for any ninja salvager I suggest GTFO and finds him another mission to salvage where the MR isn't so mean
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Matsif
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:01:00 -
[561]
just did my first ninja last night, and I like it I have low probe skills and am just using a probe frigate to find the MR's, then I go in in my vigil and get to ninja'ing
and the carebear tears are delicious
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AeonOfTime
Minmatar Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:36:00 -
[562]
As a carebear mission runner I welcome this little guide for some interesting insights into the profession. From a mission runner point of view, it is rather easy to avoid being ninja'd, as has been pointed out numerous times. Just go mission somewhere quieter.
And get some training in PvP if you want to take a shot at looters. Don't try it with your missioning skills. Don't get your 300 mil Battleship blown up for a few wrecks...
One last thing: don't shed your tears in local. They seem to enjoy that just a tad :) -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies |
Thor's Fury
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Posted - 2009.06.02 16:53:00 -
[563]
You MR need to chill out. I first learned about ninja looting by having one of my missions salvaged/looted. I can solo level 4's in Motsu(which I did for a while), but I 've gotten too bored Mission Running. Honestly probably about 65% of the missions I "ninja salvage", are ones that the MR doesn't loot or salvage themselves, and I've found a bunch of abandoned drones in the process also. When MR start shooting wrecks I don't think "Oh Noes!" because I have at least 2 other missions scanned out. You don't really hurt us by popping wrecks... you just change the wrecks we salvage(or I'll just wait till you turn in the mission to salvage it, in which case I'll also loot it for ya)
And for God's(and everyone's, including your's) sake use drones. We can find you when you don't use drones so might as well finish the mission faster. It's in both our interest for you to slam through the mission. And you just get more upset when you don't use em and we still find you.
Finally as far as to wreck "stealing" you could say the same thing about miners... They "steal" the ore that other miners could get. Just because you know where the wreck is doesn't entitle you to it...
anyhow that's my 2 cents... I love how this thread is still going...
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.02 19:19:00 -
[564]
I still say make it aggro. A fleet of ... "ninja-salvagers" that really only have 1 salvager installed and the rest is pure gank would eat a MR in a heart beat. I can guarantee you MR's that much ... keep whinning that the wrecks are "yours" and you want aggro, and you'll see more ninjas grouped up in small gank fleets. All CCP has to do is open the door ... then the rest will be in our hands. There will be no need to go into low sec at that point - we'll just bring it straight to you, and your shiney CNR's and Navy Mega's will make great salvage. ________________________________________________
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.02 21:52:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Thor's Fury When MR start shooting wrecks I don't think "Oh Noes!" because I have at least 2 other missions scanned out. You don't really hurt us by popping wrecks...
See, that's the spirit! No whining about mean MR's. Ninja salvaging is part of the game, so is blowing up your own wrecks. Let us both do what we enjoy
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.06.03 02:58:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
OH please. A big, slow marauder vs ninjastabber?
He tractors the wrecks within 10km then I move slightly closer. I can nab the loot before he can, as well as start my salvage cycles earlier...and with Salvager IIs, I'm not likely to fail a cycle.
lmao true comedy! Try a Marauder with a 40km beam picking-up wrecks as they appear on scene... Like I said... you clearly "know not" what your talking about.
Ninja Salvaging with a Marauder, not likely going to happen.
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Antoine Roquentin
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:28:00 -
[567]
Originally by: temponita
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
OH please. A big, slow marauder vs ninjastabber?
He tractors the wrecks within 10km then I move slightly closer. I can nab the loot before he can, as well as start my salvage cycles earlier...and with Salvager IIs, I'm not likely to fail a cycle.
lmao true comedy! Try a Marauder with a 40km beam picking-up wrecks as they appear on scene... Like I said... you clearly "know not" what your talking about.
Ninja Salvaging with a Marauder, not likely going to happen.
1-2 poorly trained salvagers vs 4+ max skilled salvager IIs and the ninja's ship will be fast enough to pounce on the wrecks first as they're tractored in.
You seem to be arguing out of spite rather than to correct a falsehood. Are you upset over losing salvage?
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:41:00 -
[568]
Edited by: temponita on 03/06/2009 03:41:37
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
You seem to be arguing out of spite rather than to correct a falsehood. Are you upset over losing salvage?
It's more like laughing, at this stage...
This all sounds great in theory, but most of what's written here is nothing but hopes and dreams. Sure it sounds good in the forums, but in reality, it just doesn't happen.
Good for a laugh though.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 05:51:00 -
[569]
So all those times I've salvaged/looted -everything- under the nose of a marauder were all hallucinations? whatever you say
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.06.03 09:20:00 -
[570]
Originally by: temponita
inaccurate statements about Marauders vs. Ninja salvage ships
Sounds like to me that someone is trying to discourage would-be salvagers from probing out his Marauder.
Lets look at some basic facts:
1) Ninja salvaging ships can EAISILY surpass 1200m/s in a mission. You are tractoring at 1000m/s. Even if you are full speeding at the wreck, the Ninja is going to make it there first based on speed alone.
2) The Ninja's ship is built explicitly for salvaging. Salvage rigs, T2 Salvagers, and speed. Your Marauder is fitted to survive the mission your are running. I can perma run 4 T2 salvagers, my chance of salvaging the wreck is much higher then the 1 or 2 salvagers you have mounted on your Marauder
Anyone who thinks that a Marauder makes them immune to Ninja salvaging are in for a huge surprise the first time it happens. Chances are this is what happened to temponita. ------------------------------------------------ SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES! |
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