Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 28 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 07:51:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Baptiste Richelieu Pompous asshats that try to use psichologic mumbo jumbo to rationalize what is nothing but a way to have fun in a game are one of the causes that people join to this class of corps (or guilds in another games).
BTW, are ninjas still recruiting?
Baptiste, we are always lookin for fresh blood =)
Send me a mail ingame if you want some info.
|
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 10:50:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Whineroy Ninja salvaging is part of game, nothing wrong with that... Just next time cut off all the hypocrisy, OK ? :)
Looking for a line that neatly summarises my long rambling posts? This is it.
|
Hakkod
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 11:55:00 -
[363]
To whomever thinks you can't do this for the money.
My personal record is 24 million worth in salvage taken from a 5 room mission, full of large wrecks. This took approx 30 - 45 minutes maybe?
Granted, the 5 - 10 mil missions are more often encountered, but filter your scans properly and your chances'll go up to be, shall we say, quite profitable..
|
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 12:59:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 06/04/2009 13:01:38
I suspect this isnt particularly profitable unless you know what you are doing and have the proper astro skills to back it up. I did a test run at nina salvaging on an alt and concluded it wasn't time efficient (yet). Even if it was, I don't see myself engaging in it because it's somewhat pathetic.
Here's the issue (which makes 90% of this discussion moot):
The incoming patch will make scanning down single targets in mission areas child's play, making this even faster for skills ninjas and very easy for new ones. I imagine many players turning this into their primary profession to such an extent that eve gameplay and perhaps economics will change over the coming month.
If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play. ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 13:57:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Nyota Sol If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play.
The solution to this is obvious and any mission runner with any sense has been pursuing this course of action for some time.
Ofc - this might not be such a good option post patch, but we'll see. Bottom line is CCP keep all things under constant review and if overly easy scanning has a negative impact on the game (i.e. drives down subs) then it'll get changed again.
|
Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 14:56:00 -
[366]
"Killing" NPC's and Shooting someone's internet space ship/ stealing their internet money isn't any different to me. Just because there is a human on the other end doesn't change the fact that everything in EvE is controlled by 1's and 0's. I don't hurt people out of game because I have morals, not because of "social norms." Social norms can change, my morals won't. But my morals don't apply to 1's and 0's, that's the draw of a game like this is you can act like someone your not. If doing what I do in this game hurts someone in IRL, then they need a new pasttime. Seriously. Nothing that happens in this game should ever hurt anyone and people affected in a negative manner need to do something else with their time and money.
|
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 15:16:00 -
[367]
Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 15:17:05 Icefist - I see what you are saying, but I think you're confusing "activity" and "intent."
If you're setting out in eve to engage in activity, such as salvaging, then that might have the untended effect of upsetting someone, which is regrettable but unavoidable and entirely "part of the game". I would agree with you that here the "it is only a game" argument holds water and it isn't worth getting all het up about.
However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment. This is, at best, morally dubious behaviour. You cannot argue that "it is only a game" at this point, because the intended outcome of your actions is outside of the gaming environment.
In summary, the "intent" here is the key thing. If you're not out to deliberately annoy anyone, then fair enough. I agree with you, it is just bunch a 1s & 0s.
If you are out to deliberately annoy someone then your argument is void.
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 15:58:00 -
[368]
Quote:
The incoming patch will make scanning down single targets in mission areas child's play, making this even faster for skills ninjas and very easy for new ones. I imagine many players turning this into their primary profession to such an extent that eve gameplay and perhaps economics will change over the coming month.
If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play.
Explain? Link or it's (Not going to) happen
Quote: However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment. This is, at best, morally dubious behaviour. You cannot argue that "it is only a game" at this point, because the intended outcome of your actions is outside of the gaming environment.
It's relative. The way I see it is that someone isn't going to get ****ed off unless they take their internet spaceships way too seriously.
I'd agree with your post, except I see nothing wrong with ****ing someone off who expects to be left alone in a competitive PVP game. It's much like how, if I was playing Team Fortress 2, and some guy was *****ing that the other team was trying to kill him, I'd go out of my way to do it repeatedly. I technically am seeking to **** a real player off, but if he's being an idiot then I don't care.
If you're looking for a more positive point of view: Ninjasalvaging helps teach players about EVE's true nature (that you have to compete for stuff; it's not just handed to you). Many people I run into are actually rather civil. One of the more active members of the Ninja Alliance channel actually discovered the profession after -his- mission was salvaged...so it helps grow the profession, as well.
|
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 16:05:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Nyota Sol
The incoming patch will make scanning down single targets in mission areas child's play, making this even faster for skills ninjas and very easy for new ones. I imagine many players turning this into their primary profession to such an extent that eve gameplay and perhaps economics will change over the coming month.
If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play.
Explain? Link or it's (Not going to) happen
Log onto test server and see for yourself.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1039779
___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 16:08:00 -
[370]
Meh. I don't see that making it much easier to find individual missionrunners.
|
|
Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 16:13:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Sendraks Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 15:17:05 However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment. This is, at best, morally dubious behaviour. You cannot argue that "it is only a game" at this point, because the intended outcome of your actions is outside of the gaming environment.
Again I'm sorry, but there are many other games available to be played where there are more game mechanics and gameplay restrictions that protect players from other players. EVE is meant to be harsh, it is supposed to be harsh, you're not supposed to ever be safe. The moment you undock you are at the mercy of other players.
I would whole-heartedly agree with youre arguement if players were harrassing other players through unintended mechanics/glitches/hacks/exploits. However, pirating, scamming, thiervery, spying, etc. were all INTENDED by the developer and everyone who pays for an account should understand this and at the very least should have realized it by the end of their trial. I would venture to say that players tell themselves "Those things won't ever happen to me." But given enough time you WILL lose a ship, you WILL lose money and other players WILL grief you. That's the game, its supposed to be that way and I don't think its morally dubious behavior to play the bad guy in a game if it was intended and supported by the mechanics, especially since in the end everything comes down to 1's and 0's.
|
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 16:32:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 16:33:10
Originally by: Kahega Amielden It's relative. The way I see it is that someone isn't going to get ****ed off unless they take their internet spaceships way too seriously.
I agree that quite a few mission runners need to take a chill pill.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'd agree with your post, except I see nothing wrong with ****ing someone off who expects to be left alone in a competitive PVP game. It's much like how, if I was playing Team Fortress 2, and some guy was *****ing that the other team was trying to kill him, I'd go out of my way to do it repeatedly. I technically am seeking to **** a real player off, but if he's being an idiot then I don't care.
Again, in this scenario I'd probably do the same because the other person is being a prat. I can imagine a similar scenario where you're quietly salvaging someone's mission, not drawing attention to yourself and they start talking crap. At which point they've brought it upon themselves to have further, less pleasant visitations from a salvager.
I think we're on the same page here.
However, what I've been discussing is those who set out with the deliberate intent of annoying another player. The basic assumption here, and I apologise (especially to IceFist who has been struggling with this discussion) if I've been unclear, is that the target of this behaviour has done nothing to provoke such a harassment. We're not just talking about salvaging someone here and hoping they might get annoyed then responding to it, but going about it in a way to deliberately upset that other person.
That is a different matter entirely, as then activity is about annoying another player, not salvaging.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden If you're looking for a more positive point of view: Ninjasalvaging helps teach players about EVE's true nature (that you have to compete for stuff; it's not just handed to you). Many people I run into are actually rather civil. One of the more active members of the Ninja Alliance channel actually discovered the profession after -his- mission was salvaged...so it helps grow the profession, as well.
My thought entirely. Gotta love those little space critters flying around tidying things up, because, you know, there isn't always time to salvage your missions.
*edit*
Icefist - have read your post and I still think you're confusing activity and intent. Sorry. I agree with some of what you're saying, but you're missing the fundamental point.
|
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 16:33:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Meh. I don't see that making it much easier to find individual missionrunners.
You dont see how being able to instantly turn off all scan results except for 1 ship ID would help you sort through a 100+ mission runners? Let me guess, your retort is "im so 1337 already that it wont make a difference." ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 16:41:00 -
[374]
Quote: You dont see how being able to instantly turn off all scan results except for 1 ship ID would help you sort through a 100+ mission runners? Let me guess, your retort is "im so 1337 already that it wont make a difference."
No, I don't. Unless you have a SPECIFIC ship in mind then it makes virtually no difference.
|
Ethidium
|
Posted - 2009.04.06 17:24:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Meh. I don't see that making it much easier to find individual missionrunners.
You dont see how being able to instantly turn off all scan results except for 1 ship ID would help you sort through a 100+ mission runners? Let me guess, your retort is "im so 1337 already that it wont make a difference."
Why yes, I am so 1337 that it won't matter.
With regards to scanning down missions, the only change I'm excited about is the remote bookmark. Question: Have you tried to scan down mission runners in a high population system? It doesn't matter how many ships I find in my initial scan. I don't care which one I scan down, I just need one or two. With minimal skills (~1mil sp total atm) I can scan down a mission in < 3 min. The only thing I see improving my time is training my skills higher.
I do hope that the current wire frame that they have doesn't make it live as is. Dang near makes my eyes bleed.
|
Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 12:05:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Sendraks Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 15:17:05
However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment.
And sometimes I have to do exactly this to provoke the MRs to take that first shot. If I am after the destruction of the MRs ship (to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction) then sometimes I must annoy/aggreive/upset them to provoke them to active their weapons on me.
Does this make me a bad person?
|
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 13:21:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Dotard And sometimes I have to do exactly this to provoke the MRs to take that first shot.
So basically you're out culling the stupid pilots.
Sounds like a community service to me.
Originally by: Dotard If I am after the destruction of the MRs ship (to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction) then sometimes I must annoy/aggreive/upset them to provoke them to active their weapons on me.
It is debatable whether stupidity is a negative emotional reaction. Your intent here is the MR's ship. You want to provoke them into doing something stupid.
Hard to judge your process for doing this, if all you're doing is provoking them by saying "I'm taking your salvage unless you shoot my ship" or something equally bland, then that is hardly abusing the other person. To be fair, we also have to accept that the truly dense will open fire on salvagers without any discussion at all.
Difficult to say without a clearer idea of what you do to provoke.
Originally by: Dotard Does this make me a bad person?
I've said that I'm making no judgements of individuals here, only that some activities are morally dubious and that actions you take in game are indivisable from your psyche. You are who you are, both in and out of game.
|
Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:18:00 -
[378]
Lets get something out of the way. I am not a nice person in real life and I am not a nice person in game. I can be mean spirited when the mood arises. I can be sadistic to the point of making someone cry just to see them cry. I can also be kind to animals and bugs (crickets I kill on sight). What keeps me in check in "The Real World" are the "Real World" consequences of my actions. I do not like the thought of spending "quality time" with Bubba in jail.
The only consequence in Eve for my unsocial like behavior is the consequences that the other players in Eve seem fit to hand down. I will, and do, perform tasks in this game that should irritate people to the point of blasting my ship to space dust. They do not. They could, and should, war dec the corp I belong to for the things we do in game to other people and be justified in erasing us off the face of Eve. They do not.
I play this game the way the Eve Developers have envisioned. I have made my own rules for playing this game. I follow the few rules that CCP has handed down so that I do not get banned for un-CCP like behavior.
I invade mission runners dead spaces and take their salvage with nary a word on my part, unless they start the conversation first, or I feel a need to advise them on what they are doing wrong in the mission and how to finish it faster. I have caused mission runners to shoot at me in their missions and have held them for ransom and have blown up their ships after they have paid. It's how I play the game.
If you have a problem with my way of playing this game and telling me I am a bad person on the forums will do nothing to stop me from continuing with my play style. In fact it will just encourage me to continue with it. If you truly wish for me to change my ways or somehow remove me from the game so that mission runners will have peace to do their missions you know who I am and by extension you should be able to find me and the corp I belong to in the game. I invite you to make us stop what we are doing with actions and not this "noise" that is in this thread.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:41:00 -
[379]
Well this arguement has been interesting. I conceded that there are some people who will consistently play an RPG like eve as if it were an extension of their own life (i.e. nice people are nice, and bad people pirate). It's just like the sociopaths that play GTA and go out and kill people thinking it's ok, but there are alot more people who play GTA and realize it for what it is and enjoy it for what it is. But EVE is a different story. It's not a truely violent game, I mean the goriest thing in eve is the floating corpse. I don't think any action in eve could come to be an inspiration to violent behavior (unless you play too much, then parents, gf's, wives etc. get violent). It's RPG and sandbox nature set it apart in a way where you can act in a way that youre not predisposed to act. I can see how this could mean that these people are capable of such behavior IRL even if they don't act that way, but I don't think it's true in every case. Some people are morally sound and wouldn't hurt or steal in life but can go on eve and scam billions or slaughter noobs in their thousands and then log off and be who they really are. Again, I can see how this could be an insight to their personality, but this is the way the game is supposed to be played and whether I intend it or not if anyone is hurt by something i've done to them in game then they shouldn't be playing eve. This is how the game is meant to be played. It's supposed to be brutal and unforgiving. Everyone fly safe :)
|
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 14:53:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal If you have a problem with my way of playing this game and telling me I am a bad person on the forums will do nothing to stop me from continuing with my play style.
I don't have a problem with it and couldn't give a rats arse whether you are that way out of game or not. At least you are fundamentally honest about who you are and don't hide behind excuses.
I would also cite your post to all the whiny mission runners in this thread as an example of why the onus is on them to resolve any "difficulties" they have with salvagers and not CCP. After all CCP have given them (the whiny mission runners) the tools to do so in game.
|
|
Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 15:00:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal If you have a problem with my way of playing this game and telling me I am a bad person on the forums will do nothing to stop me from continuing with my play style.
I don't have a problem with it and couldn't give a rats arse whether you are that way out of game or not. At least you are fundamentally honest about who you are and don't hide behind excuses.
I would also cite your post to all the whiny mission runners in this thread as an example of why the onus is on them to resolve any "difficulties" they have with salvagers and not CCP. After all CCP have given them (the whiny mission runners) the tools to do so in game.
I did not try to aim this specifically at you. It is a general response on my part to the posts I have seen over the years of people complaining about the types of actions I and others do in game. It is not my responsibility to change how I play the game to fit others style. It is their responsibility to "whack me upside the head" if I irritate them in game because no one else will do it for them.
One of my guiding thoughts in real life is "you are responsible for you, no one else is".
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 17:03:00 -
[382]
i cant believe this silly and petty moral argument is going on page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page.
you guys are just talking to hear yourselves at this point. ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 18:17:00 -
[383]
I will never understand why ninja salvaging provokes such a heated response. If salvage and loot were the only rewards for running missions, the way ore is the only reward for mining, then I would understand it, but it's not. Mission runners get mission rewards and bounties and in most cases don't bother to salvage or loot the mission themselves, so exactly what difference does it make if I come along later and clean up?
And what does my decision to pursue salvaging and rig making have to do with who I am in real life? Nothing! Are the guys that gate-camp low-sec considered to be evil, mean-spirited people in real life? No, yet the activity they choose to engage in results in considerably more grief to other pilots then does ninja salvaging. I assume the argument will be something to do with how they are willing to risk going into low-sec or some such, but as a salvager who routinely loots as well, I am also running the risk of being shot at, and what's more, I am running that risk in a ship that is not well tanked and does not have any offensive capabilities whatsoever.
Seriously people, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?
|
Drake Konstantin
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 21:17:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Sendraks You are who you are, both in and out of game.
So in your case, bursting at the seams with bull****?
Makes sense to me.
|
Herpes Sweatrash
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 21:29:00 -
[385]
I try ninja salvage but they always pop the wrecks and warp out so I get a targetted!!
|
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 22:05:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Herpes Sweatrash I try ninja salvage but they always pop the wrecks and warp out so I get a targetted!!
a) Go to another mission for the time being and come back in a few minutes or
or
b) Just stay there anyway. You can, if you fly properly, speedtank most mission groups for awhile (unless there are scram rats, in which case GTFO)...and if they pop wrecks...let them. They're just denying themselves access to the loot -and- the salvage.
|
Cukaz Nikanoru
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.04.07 23:46:00 -
[387]
And then go back to the station and sell your stuff for 1isk less than Kahega, apparently he LOVES when you do that!
|
Minnie Matarri
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 04:42:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Myshella Drake Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob?[/quote
Yes, unless you think mining is more fun.
|
Giannamichaels
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 07:07:00 -
[389]
What is the exact name of the probe and the probe launcher (sisters version) to do this activity?
|
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
|
Posted - 2009.04.08 12:10:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Dedalus77 I will never understand why ninja salvaging provokes such a heated response.
Because the people complaining seem to think that CCP owes them an uninterrupted flow of ISKies in return for their subscriptions?
Originally by: Dedalus77 And what does my decision to pursue salvaging and rig making have to do with who I am in real life? Nothing!
Did you take time to think about this before you typed it? Do you not realise how hugely illogical this statement is.
I'll simplify it for you, because you and many others seem have difficulty grasping what is a fundamentally basic concept.
Who you are, as a person in RL, influences what you do in game. What you do in game does not necessarily influence what you do in RL (indeed this is highly unlikey), but is a product of your personality never-the-less. You cannot divorce one from the other.
Originally by: Dedalus77 Are the guys that gate-camp low-sec considered to be evil, mean-spirited people in real life? No!
If you'd actually paid attention to this thread, you'll see that some players believe they are as mean spirited in RL as they are in game.
If you'd actually paid attention to this thread, you'd realise the activities and behaviours are not analgous in the different mediums.
If you'd paid attention to this thread, you wouldn't have written a load of nonsense.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 28 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |