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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:24:00 -
[1]
Do you like the smell of alloyed tritanium bars? Do you like tasting whiny missionrunner tears? If so, then ninjasalvaging might be for you.
Background
Ninjasalvaging, as you might already know, is the act of probing down hisec mission runners and salvaging the wrecks they leave behind. As you can imagine, this ****es off a lot of missionrunners and as such has lead to a lot of delicious tears on these very forums.
However, it is a very profitable venture, and fun as well.
Skills you need/want
-Astrometrics. Depending on the type of probe you want to use (will be discussed later), you will need different levels of this
-Astrometric Pinpointing/Triangulation. I'd train these up a little bit so your scans are more precise. Pinpointing I don't think is as important unless you plan to use recon probes (again will be discussed later)
-Signal Acquisition. Lowers your scan time, most important if you use scanner probes, but very useful nonetheless
-Salvaging. Requires Survey III. Level I will work, but 3-4 makes for faster salvaging
Ships
First, you want a scanship. The best scanship is a covert ops frigate, due to the 10% decreased scan time per level of covert ops. However, if you can't use those, just use a tech 1 astrometrics frigate (Imicus, Probe, etc.). They have a scan time bonus of 5% per level of racial frigatel.
Then, slap a couple Gravity Capacitor Rigs on it (about 4 mil per). Again, not 100% necessary, but very useful as it decreases your scan time.
Then, you need a salvage ship. This is not a destroyer. You can't use tractor beams, so don't bother trying.
What you want it something fast, something that can zip around from wreck to wreck, salvage, and move on. You may need cargo capacity/survivability if you want to loot and/or bait the missionrunner, again will be discussed later. I personally use a Slasher frigate with 3x salvagers, an AB, small cap battery, and an overdrive injector.
Finding A System
What you want is a crowded mission hub. Look for high-quality level 4 kill mission agents, especially for Caldari, and then use the starmap (f10) to check the population of the systems with those agents. If you see both high quality level 4 kill agents AND a huge population, you have found yourself a mission hub! Personally, I use Dodixie, many others use Motsu.
Methods of Scanning
There are two ways to scan down missionrunners.
1) This is the most simple. You just drop down recon probes (Fanthoms, snoops, etc.) down to cover the whole system, and scan until you find something. They have a very low sensor strength, so the chance to find an individual runner is low. However, with probes covering every inch of the system, you're bound to find one. Also, recon probes can be loaded into recon probe launchers, which scan very quickly. Remember that one probe can't be within another probe's scan radius, so pick your placement carefully. Also, shorter-range probes have higher scan strengths, thus higher chances to pick people up in missions, so be aware of this.
When you scan, sit in the solar system map. If you go into the scanner and select your probes, the solar system map will show you exactly how much coverage you have. When the system is thoroughly covered, select DRONE AND PROBES, and SHIPS, and then hit analyze. In the solar system map, you will see circles denoting every hit. If you see a ship that you think might be running missions (Like a Domininx, Raven, etc), warp to it.
If you see a drone, this very well might be a mission, but at the same time it might just be probes forgotten by missionrunners past.
2) My preferred method is the scan probe method. It involves warping around to bookmarks, getting within 4 AU of some missionrunners, and using scan probes. This is much more precise due to the high scan strength of scan probes, but has a short range.
firstly, you need to get some bookmarks out in the middle of nowhere. You have many ways to do this.
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:24:00 -
[2]
Reserved
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.24 18:29:00 -
[3]
Reserved
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Polyvalent
EDF-CYNO
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Posted - 2008.03.24 19:49:00 -
[4]
Very cool, Kahega. Thanks for the info.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:29:00 -
[5]
Very nice guide, pretty much covers all the basics. For my salvage boat i use a thorax, its fast enough even with 3 tackle rigs, decent armor, and enough cargo to take in the largest wrecks(160m3)
Fitting:
4x Salvager I 1x Small tractor beam I ....... 10mn AB II 10mn MWD II Large peroxide capacitor cell I ....... 2x Overdrive injector II 3X interia stab II ...... 3x Salvage tackle I
Just two pieces of advice to add:
1)be sure to fit inertia stabs to your scanning ship, quite often you will find yourself warping in on NPCs and you need a quick getaway.
2) I recommend fitting 1 tractor to your salvage boat, not to tractor wrecks but to carry a can along behind you and fill it with metal scraps. ------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Pwett
QUANT Corp. QUANT Hegemony
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Posted - 2008.03.24 20:30:00 -
[6]
Salvage aside, this is an well-written guide for all probers out there.
nice work. _______________ Pwett CEO, Founder, & Executor <Q> QUANT Hegemony
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goober nuts
Crabby's
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Posted - 2008.03.24 21:35:00 -
[7]
i tend to use a vexor with 50m3 of drones to kill scrammers if i get caught and the other 50 if they leave drones... i also put in a dc
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Xanos Blackpaw
The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2008.03.25 02:07:00 -
[8]
i recomend a crusader(inty) or a retribution(af) for ninja salvageing. i dont do it often but it works like this. the crusader is fast even with only an ab and got 4 highs to salvage with, it also got lots of lows for expanders. the retribution got a godlike tank for a frig so it wont insta pop if you some how manages to get aggro...
another great ship for ninja salvagieing is the stabber...
Playing minmatar is "like going down a flight of stairs in a office chair firing an Uzi". |
catheleen
IADS Holdings
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Posted - 2008.03.25 14:07:00 -
[9]
Great guide, thanks alot!
You got an idea on how much ISK per Hour this can earn in high sec?
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Myshella Drake
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Posted - 2008.03.26 04:05:00 -
[10]
It largely depends on how lucky you are in your take. Roughly guessing, i can get anything from 5-15 mil (often the former) a run selling it straight to the market. A run is usually about an hour and a half (including probing times),sometimes less. However thats assuming you already have the probe BMs set up, you know exactly what your doing and have a decent speed setup. Its possibly more profitable in other races mission hubs, i only work in the motsu area currently. ------------------
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.26 05:00:00 -
[11]
Dunno, I tend to get a bit more in Dodixie. I've gotten 1 alloyed trit bars inside of a few minutes before.
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Gabriel Aaron
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.03.26 07:45:00 -
[12]
You're better off just salvaging Battleship wrecks. All the other wrecks kind of suck.
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Polly Prissypantz
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.26 09:56:00 -
[13]
All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
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Iced Earth
Goat Riders
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Posted - 2008.03.26 10:13:00 -
[14]
Much more fun being a jackass then creating your own wrecks.
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Sigul Siento
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.26 10:21:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sigul Siento on 26/03/2008 10:24:47
Originally by: Gabriel Aaron You're better off just salvaging Battleship wrecks. All the other wrecks kind of suck.
Once you've found a nice field, there's little point in leaving any wrecks behind. Since you're already there and all.
And Polly, it's not just about getting the most ISK/hour
And stick around if you think you see an irrational/ebay'd missionrunner, that might attack you and get blown up by CONCORD. I've gotten some very nice stuff that way. Also, some missionrunners actually manage to get killed by the mission rats. Keep an eye out for that and you might net yourself both faction mods and T2-salvage.
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Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:53:00 -
[16]
Nice guide, although wreck theft is a bit annoying I find it funny how emo people get on the subject instead of just moving to another less-populated system, I had 1 wreck thief show up in my last mission on the last day i missioned in dodixie, ninja looters + the lag makes playing in those systems moronic, so more power to ya!
If you dont like it, move systems.
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Kahega Amielden
Legacy Syndicate space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2008.03.26 16:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 26/03/2008 17:02:46
Quote: All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Ninjasalvaging is a great source of carebear tears, which 0.0 alliances use to fuel their POSes.
As to ISK/Hour: I tend to get a lot. I find that I can usually track down individual sites very quickly, so it's usually not worth my time to run around going for all the frig wrecks.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.26 18:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob? ------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Polly Prissypantz
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.26 23:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Myshella Drake
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob?
I know this is just a game and all, and the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting, but there's so many options in Eve on what you can do for enjoyment and satisfaction. You may think it's not the case, but how you get your kicks in-game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life (or at least, what you'd like to be like in real life if there weren't bigger, badder people inclined to show you the error of your ways were you to act that way in real life).
Now, some people choose to be peaceful and carebear and don't really get in anyone's way. Others choose to go live out in 0.0 and shoot at each other, where the challenge is real and any killing/greifing is generally an accepted way of life. Then there's low-sec pirates who, for the most part aren't too bad since after all, they are in low-sec, so if they gank you it's mostly your own fault.
And then there's lowlife losers who do crap like can flipping, suicide-ganking and stealing other peoples salvage knowing full well that there's not much the victim can do about it (for the record I've never been a victim of any of these activities, so sorry, no 'carebear tears' from me (I figured I wasn't being cool unless I included 'carebear tears' in my post since all the cool kids are)). Now I know, these are all well within the rules of the game. I'm not arguing against that. But at the end of the day, you know that there's another person on the other end who you're directly impacting by your lame choice of entertainment and self-gratification. Rather than putting any attempt into actually going out and challenging yourself, you'd rather take the easy route and just pick on the easy targets and then pat yourselves on the back at a job well done.
Each to his own I guess. Some people just aspire to be at the bottom of the barrel since it's so easy to achieve.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.27 00:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
I know this is just a game and all...
Wise words, but then you typed a bunch of judgmental nonsense.
* * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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Polly Prissypantz
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.03.27 01:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
I know this is just a game and all...
Wise words, but then you typed a bunch of judgmental nonsense.
Ya all that 'judgemental nonsense' would kinda suck if was in any way professing to be neutral on the subject.
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Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Myshella Drake
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob?
I know this is just a game and all, and the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting, but there's so many options in Eve on what you can do for enjoyment and satisfaction. You may think it's not the case, but how you get your kicks in-game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life (or at least, what you'd like to be like in real life if there weren't bigger, badder people inclined to show you the error of your ways were you to act that way in real life).
Now, some people choose to be peaceful and carebear and don't really get in anyone's way. Others choose to go live out in 0.0 and shoot at each other, where the challenge is real and any killing/greifing is generally an accepted way of life. Then there's low-sec pirates who, for the most part aren't too bad since after all, they are in low-sec, so if they gank you it's mostly your own fault.
And then there's lowlife losers who do crap like can flipping, suicide-ganking and stealing other peoples salvage knowing full well that there's not much the victim can do about it (for the record I've never been a victim of any of these activities, so sorry, no 'carebear tears' from me (I figured I wasn't being cool unless I included 'carebear tears' in my post since all the cool kids are)). Now I know, these are all well within the rules of the game. I'm not arguing against that. But at the end of the day, you know that there's another person on the other end who you're directly impacting by your lame choice of entertainment and self-gratification. Rather than putting any attempt into actually going out and challenging yourself, you'd rather take the easy route and just pick on the easy targets and then pat yourselves on the back at a job well done.
Each to his own I guess. Some people just aspire to be at the bottom of the barrel since it's so easy to achieve.
Now...i could waste a good half hour totally ridiculing your post because of the immense amount of judgmental bull**** contained in it. But i think that anyone with enough brains can read the **** that comes out of your mouth and come to the same conclusion as i did.
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting
To you maybe, but not to many other people.
----- Also if you haven't got anything of value to add to this Ninja salvaging guide other than bad mouthing people you know nothing about, i kindly suggest you leave. ------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Ya all that 'judgemental nonsense' would kinda suck if was in any way professing to be neutral on the subject.
Well, I'm glad to see you're conceding the nonsense part, at least. As far as the descriptor goes, I wasn't criticizing you for having an opinion. Just a sanctimonious and absurd one.
Interesting thought: What if it were harder to discern someone's RL personality from their choice of career in an intentionally dark and cutthroat imaginary spaceship game than by how prone they are to calling other people jackasses and losers on the internet.
No, that can't be right. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Oldin Kinrod
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.27 04:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz blah blah blah... and stealing other peoples salvage ... blah blah blah
Prove to me that they are your wrecks. Go on...
You can't - and I can prove that.
Quote: What are wrecks? When a ship is destroyed, whether it is a player ship or an NPC ship, it leaves a wreck. The modules and items from the cargohold that are not destroyed in the ship's explotion, can be looted. In addition to this, raw materials can be extracted from the wreck by using salvaging. The materials salvaged can be sold on the market or used to create rigs. Note that anyone can salvage materials from wrecks, regardless of who destroyed the ship, while looting items from a wreck can get you flagged and a legal target for the owner.
But of course you're not actually going to take this on board, just like every other mission runner that whines about how "they spent the time to kill the rats blah blah blah.." Wrecks are the property of the ship owner that they came from IF ANYONE. There have been countless thread on this topic and have given countless ways to stop these "theives" from "stealing your" wrecks. Heck, even this thread tells you how they do it!
But you feel a little better about yourself by coming onto this forums and spouting that it's not fair that you cannot shoot them - MOVE TO LOW SEC THEN! But what about the ebil piwates? MOVE OUT OF MOTSU/DODIXIE/ETC!
It takes very little brain power to reaslise that the reason it's so "easy" to probe mission runners is because they all sit in one system doing missions. This GUARANTEES at least one hit on a mission runner.
And before you try saying I'm hiding behind the anonymity of the net - I'd tell you the same in person, but a lot louder. And don't try labeling me as "one of those theives", I run my own missions and salvage them too - never had a single intrusion because I stay away from the crowds.
Please excuse the harshness that probably comes out in this - but it's been a rough day and I needed to vent, but if the mission runners that whine about this would take the time and effort to realise how easy it is to combat this "problem" they might be a bit happier. People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions? |
Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.27 05:33:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Myshella Drake on 27/03/2008 05:34:32 @ Oldin
You always take the time to explain things so logically and calmly...Forum needs more people like you and less like me . Thank you ------------------
Proud to stand up for my Profession
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Oldin Kinrod
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.03.27 05:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Myshella Drake Edited by: Myshella Drake on 27/03/2008 05:34:32 @ Oldin
You always take the time to explain things so logically and calmly...Forum needs more people like you and less like me . Thank you
That was calm?!?! I like to think of it more like a spew of rage that's been building since I started trying to explain to mission runners that they were wrong in their assumptions.
Most of these threads that are coming up now I keep an eye on to see where they are going, and will interject when I feel a need to clear up a major point that others seem to miss (for example, the above). Once people realise that the only rewards that a mission entitles you to is the rewards/bonus/LP then maybe this topic can be put to rest...
But I somehow doubt that will happen... People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions? |
Myshella Drake
Ward-Tech Industries
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Posted - 2008.03.27 06:10:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod
Originally by: Myshella Drake Edited by: Myshella Drake on 27/03/2008 05:34:32 @ Oldin
You always take the time to explain things so logically and calmly...Forum needs more people like you and less like me . Thank you
That was calm?!?! I like to think of it more like a spew of rage that's been building since I started trying to explain to mission runners that they were wrong in their assumptions.
Okay calm is the wrong word here, i should say, a nasty fashion than alot of other people
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Proud to stand up for my Profession
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L70Rogue
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.03.27 16:10:00 -
[28]
Found a rokh today with a Magnemetric quest probe o.O
He was doing World's Collide but he was slow so I killed the rats for him lol
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Salliene
Happy Unicorn Initiative
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Posted - 2008.03.27 19:55:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Fact : When you play monopoly, if everyone agrees not to be a jackass and demand rent for landing on properties and ignore all the "bad" chance and community chest cards, the game is a lot more fun cause everyone wins and has a lot of money!
One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe |
Svedge
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Posted - 2008.03.29 17:00:00 -
[30]
Thanks for the great guide, I meet my first rageboy today after I ninjaed the wrecks from his mission. :)
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Jitabug
Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2008.03.30 10:08:00 -
[31]
Is it just me or does anyone else now feel inspired to actively track certain posters down and salvage their wrecks?
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Beliandra
Republic University
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Posted - 2008.03.30 11:31:00 -
[32]
Am I right in my understanding that you can't find wrecks using probes? i.e., you have to find missions in progress by scanning out the mission runner, you can't find old missions by scanning out the wrecks?
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Tsanse Kinske
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Posted - 2008.03.30 20:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Beliandra Am I right in my understanding that you can't find wrecks using probes? i.e., you have to find missions in progress by scanning out the mission runner, you can't find old missions by scanning out the wrecks?
Right, probes can't detect them. However they do show up on the directional scanner, and I think the cleverer salvagers will use that to help select where and how to probe scan, and which probe hits look the most lucrative. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Tchell Dahhn
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Posted - 2008.03.31 19:43:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz Some people just aspire to be at the bottom of the barrel since it's so easy to achieve.
...like being in an NPC Corp, you mean.
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
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Frodon
Antiloncker Roids'Are'Us
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Posted - 2008.04.01 11:59:00 -
[35]
How to avoid ninjasalvage?
Do your mission in low-sec
And u can blow the ninjasalvager if u want :)
THx for the guide, all those angel wreck in space
And sorry for my bad spelling :)
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lollerwaffle
Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.04.01 12:00:00 -
[36]
Edited by: lollerwaffle on 01/04/2008 12:02:46 meh stop whining, ive been running mission 4's recently in motsu and been scanned out loads. Simple, just keep shooting up the wrecks the little herons are headed for (wait till they just about reach it), and voila, they lose patience and warp off, he's not gonna stick around if there's no profit for him to be made. Oh yeah, do occasionally leave a can of nice stuff for the people who take the time to scan out your wrecks, so that you can pop out of cloak in a SB and pop em. There are ways to counter these so called 'griefers', heck i'd join in once i get my astrometrics up, just to hear more whines.
edit: new way to annoy ninja salvagers, train up the same skills get good at em, and scan the salvagers out. Fly a faster ship and ninja salvage the ninja salvagers. That way you **** both people off
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Chruker
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Posted - 2008.04.03 06:01:00 -
[37]
Message to mission runners annoyed by the wreck stealing: Destroy the wrecks when you see them invading your mission.
----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi - Speedup IGB table rendering |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.04.03 08:19:00 -
[38]
Oh no, the Message blew the whistle on this thoroughly original and devastatingly effective anti-salvage competetion method
No but seriously, if you do this, I get less salvage, and you get less salvage. I move to another site to salvage, you move to your next mission. And maybe I'll pop into that mission as well. It's a very poor solution, there are better ones where you actually get the salvage you wanted. It's almost like one could suspect that those advocating the blowing up of wrecks are out to hurt missioners ;)
There are of course other flaws with the blow up wrecks-method which means it isn't really a problem for salvagers, but I don't feel inclined to point them out.
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Daath Achura
Caldari FREE GATES ACADEMY
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Posted - 2008.04.09 13:26:00 -
[39]
Let me add that when you are in a less populated, but still mission runners' system (100-150 players during peak time, 30-60 the other time), then it's much harder to use the scan probe method, and if you can cover the system with probes, I think you're better off with the recon probe method.
Oh, and you can use the Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I rig (3 mil in Amarr) to lessen your scan time by 10%! You can fit two of those on a Heron.
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.04.16 14:11:00 -
[40]
If I'm asked the question can I salvage your wrecks I say yes & dictate the terms i.e. don't touch the battleships. If a player just takes the wrecks & does not ask.....a new wreck arrives in the overview....followed by a pod. |
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Iced Earth
Caldari Goat Riders
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Posted - 2008.04.16 14:37:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Pteranodon If I'm asked the question can I salvage your wrecks I say yes & dictate the terms i.e. don't touch the battleships. If a player just takes the wrecks & does not ask.....a new wreck arrives in the overview....followed by a pod.
Yeah .. your pod next to your wreck. You do know ninja salvaging is in high sec, yes ?
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.04.16 21:52:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Pteranodon If I'm asked the question can I salvage your wrecks I say yes & dictate the terms i.e. don't touch the battleships. If a player just takes the wrecks & does not ask.....a new wreck arrives in the overview....followed by a pod.
That's not very nice of you... I do so hate it when people destroy my ship just for salvaging
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.04.16 22:10:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Joe Starbreaker on 16/04/2008 22:10:01 I had to laugh in Dodixie yesterday. I warped into some dude's mission. What do I see? Two other guys (not the wreck owner) in two different corps, in battleships, and two battleship wrecks, also not belonging to the mission runner. Four strangers, and me, in some sixth party's mission. I salvaged the two battleships, a Megathron and I think a Raven, and got more from them than from the crappy Serpentis wrecks in the mission.
Next time I'll go to a slightly less popular hub though. |
Kyra Felann
Gallente Noir. Tread Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.17 01:49:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Maybe if missions weren't so boring that they make me want to gouge out my eyeballs with a rusty spoon I'd do more missions.
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.17 11:47:00 -
[45]
It is even funnier when you are 'danger salvaging' (salvaging while the mission is active) and having a great ol' time sucking up some smack-talk laughing up a storm in local about them not being able to to a darned thing about it.
Then getting scrammed, webbed and popped by the mission rats!
Happened to me and some great LOLz were had by all.
Even MORE funny was toward the end of my death-throws I offered the mission runners all their salvage back plus a 10mil "ransom" if they would kill the damn frigates. Ofc they didn't and rousing entertainment was had by all in local.
Top that for sheer entertainment value!
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Joop
Filiolus Of Bellum
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Posted - 2008.04.17 13:54:00 -
[46]
Warping into Recon 3 in a frig ftl
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
|
Posted - 2008.04.17 23:04:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Joop Warping into Recon 3 in a frig ftl
Done that many a time! |
Havok Pierce
Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.04.18 01:46:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Havok Pierce on 18/04/2008 01:46:42 So, what kind is a missionrunner that just co-opts the salvager?
I've also considering scanning for ninja-salvagers and suiciding them (and having an alt scoop up the delicious salvage).
Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.04.18 09:05:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Havok Pierce Edited by: Havok Pierce on 18/04/2008 01:46:42 So, what kind is a missionrunner that just co-opts the salvager?
I've also considering scanning for ninja-salvagers and suiciding them (and having an alt scoop up the delicious salvage).
Drop a recon probe in Dodixie and I assure you you'll get more than a few hits on Imicus, Herons, and Probes. |
Svedge II
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Posted - 2008.04.18 19:22:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Svedge II on 18/04/2008 19:22:05 Hail the Carebear King Havok Pierce!!
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Sabretooth Sheep
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 12:07:00 -
[51]
I probe out the mission runner go in cloaked bookmark and return later
If still in sys ill ask If not in sys then ill do the salvage
the loot stays until just before it despawns
Seems a fairer way Other than that ill use my scavanger ship and steal of those pesky pies running gate camps haha
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.04.19 12:54:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Sabretooth Sheep
the loot stays until just before it despawns
LOL. It's there just before it's not!
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Kerfira
University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.04.19 16:13:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
They're not stealing anything. By the rules of the game, salvage doesn't belong to anyone, but is free for everyone to take.
If it had belonged to the mission runner, he would have been given kill-rights. He doesn't get that, so they don't belong to him.
Have a nice day
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.04.19 23:34:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz ... don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
No worries there sir!
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Ghoul Ahn'Khor
Hive Bound Technologies
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Posted - 2008.04.19 23:48:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Dotard
Originally by: Sabretooth Sheep
the loot stays until just before it despawns
LOL. It's there just before it's not!
rofl, thats too funny
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Veron Daerth
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Posted - 2008.04.21 06:12:00 -
[56]
Wow, this is a very nice guide. I am a mission running carebear and have never really had an issue with ninja-salvagers, at least not what your doing, we all have to make a living and all that. The most hilarious thing I think I have ever seen was a ninja-salvager (hereafter named Joe) that accidentally grabbed the prisoner out of the can that spawned on top of the wreck of the last BS in my L4. Now "Joe" had been asked to please not salvage our wrecks, as we had a salvage-ship on her way to meet us (she got home from work late)but persisted. Then he made a slight boo-boo, and snagged loot from our can, and that got us killrights, so we killed him (a Catalyst cant stand up to a CNR, Harbinger, Myrm and Vexor, also, yes it was overkill, both on "Joe" and the mish, but its more fun to mission with friends than all alone) Now I will give "Joe" credit, he did try to escape, but really...it was kind of silly. What was really hilarious was when the CEO of his corp convo'd us and explaned that "Joe" was Portugese and didn't understand us and that we needed to pay for his ship and the estimated cost of his cargo and modules or get a wardec. Our CEO kind of laughed and said, "Too bad mate, you win some, you lose some, now **** off." We never got the wardec, and havent heard anything more, but someone mentioned that ppl can get frakking insane in this game, and they were spot on, I mean, seriously, a wardec threat cause "Joe" wasnt paying attention and got a cheap dessie and and easily replaceable modules blown apart? Seriously, ppl need to relax a bit more, enjoy the game. Let the ninja's salvage away, there is always more where it came from. And kep in mind that the salvagers dont have it all their way, they actually have to ocassionally pay attention to what they r doing too, or risk making a silly mistake that the mission-runner can use against them.
P.S. This isnt a flame or anything, I just find the whole everyone pointing fingers at each other and crying "monster" to be slightly funny.
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.04.21 06:41:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz blah blah blah... and stealing other peoples salvage ... blah blah blah
Prove to me that they are your wrecks. Go on...
Every wreck has the name of whoever produced it in the info as well as alliance/corp tags on the overview.
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Oldin Kinrod
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Posted - 2008.04.21 07:55:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Hanneshannes Every wreck has the name of whoever produced it in the info as well as alliance/corp tags on the overview.
Wrong. If I blow up your ship, it doesn't have my face on it. Therefore every wreck does not have the name of who produced it - nullifying any evidence of ownership. You see, I actually referenced the documentation written by CCP to prove my point that no-one owns a wreck. People stealing your wrecks? Players intruding your missions? |
Lilan Kahn
Amarr The Littlest Hobos Insurgency
|
Posted - 2008.04.21 10:43:00 -
[59]
ninja salvageing is win.
you can ransom peopels missions that is fun done that a few times.
you get free t2 drones.
last i cleaned motsu i got 69 hammerheads t2. 30 wasps and some other crap
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
|
Posted - 2008.04.21 15:17:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Veron Daerth The most hilarious thing I think I have ever seen was a ninja-salvager (hereafter named Joe) that accidentally grabbed the prisoner out of the can that spawned on top of the wreck of the last BS in my L4.
First of all, this was not me. I would never use a destroyer (worst salvaging ships in the game) and if I stole the mission item it would neither be accidental nor would I hang around long enough for you to shoot me.
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Veron Daerth
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Posted - 2008.04.21 19:00:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Veron Daerth The most hilarious thing I think I have ever seen was a ninja-salvager (hereafter named Joe) that accidentally grabbed the prisoner out of the can that spawned on top of the wreck of the last BS in my L4.
First of all, this was not me. I would never use a destroyer (worst salvaging ships in the game) and if I stole the mission item it would neither be accidental nor would I hang around long enough for you to shoot me.
No, no, the use of the name "Joe" was meant to be a generalization for ease of use in my little rambling story, not any specific person, player, or character, I don't really remember the salvager's character name, so I substituted a common name to illustrate a point. If there was any confusion or misunderstanding, I sincerely apologize. I am sure that Joe Starbreaker and all the other characters named with variations of "Joe" are competent and knowledgeable persons (until they demonstrate otherwise) who would not make that mistake, and really, the poor guy that we killed probably didn't even notice until the first salvo of cruises reached him. And, to give him credit, he did make a somewhat hasty attempt to retreat, it just wasn't successful. Sorry for the mix-up
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Loraen
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Posted - 2008.04.22 14:34:00 -
[62]
As a sidenote, salvage ownership rules work just like real life. A sunken ship wreck "belongs" (in a sense) to the owner, but anyone can salvage the wreck. I'm not sure about the ownership of any undamaged cargo, though.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.04.28 20:22:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Sigul Siento on 28/04/2008 20:24:42 Edited by: Sigul Siento on 28/04/2008 20:24:26 I am an idiot, disregard (can't see a way to delete my own posts ).
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Sharp Feather
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.04.28 21:41:00 -
[64]
Why cant people play the game how its mean to play... all theses ninjas, suicide attack and thief need to be punched in the face IRL.
cowards.
F@$&?# Cowards.
The worts being and the plague of humanity are the MOTHA $&?!#@# cowards. But its not surprising at all to find a lot of them on the internet... since nerdz without power IRL try to cause pain in game because they are too WEAK to do it IRL... or have been traited that way IRL.
aaaaaalalalaal, oh well it will never change anyway. If you search me, Im outside.
PS: If you find my english silly, try to speak french as well as I speak english and then you can say sh?t.
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syphurous
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.04.29 00:52:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Sharp Feather rant
I loled.
IBGBTW
Most people will read this thinking it's part of my post, when its actually my sig :P
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.04.29 03:25:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Sharp Feather Why cant people play the game how its mean to play... all theses ninjas, suicide attack and thief need to be punched in the face IRL. cowards.
...
Originally by: Sharp Feather try to speak french as well as I speak english and then you can say sh?t.
merde? --- I'm looking for a good 0.0 corp to join. |
Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.04.29 03:36:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Sharp Feather Why cant people play the game how its mean to play... all theses ninjas, suicide attack and thief need to be punched in the face IRL.
cowards.
F@$&?# Cowards.
The worts being and the plague of humanity are the MOTHA $&?!#@# cowards. But its not surprising at all to find a lot of them on the internet... since nerdz without power IRL try to cause pain in game because they are too WEAK to do it IRL... or have been traited that way IRL.
aaaaaalalalaal, oh well it will never change anyway. If you search me, Im outside.
PS: If you find my english silly, try to speak french as well as I speak english and then you can say sh?t.
I tried to think of something better, but I really just can't improve on the classics.
Your tears are delicious
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.04.29 03:58:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Loraen As a sidenote, salvage ownership rules work just like real life. A sunken ship wreck "belongs" (in a sense) to the owner, but anyone can salvage the wreck. I'm not sure about the ownership of any undamaged cargo, though.
The it belongs to the rat pilot/captain, who is now dead :D
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.04.29 09:05:00 -
[69]
At least my mispost above brought some good with it; as a bump with subsequent humorous rant
...why would anyone wish to speak french
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Highwind Cid
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Posted - 2008.04.29 20:44:00 -
[70]
Originally by: catheleen Great guide, thanks alot!
You got an idea on how much ISK per Hour this can earn in high sec?
Not much and a whole lot of wasted time if the runners pop the wrecks
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.04.29 21:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Highwind Cid
Originally by: catheleen Great guide, thanks alot!
You got an idea on how much ISK per Hour this can earn in high sec?
Definately less than actually doing missions yourself. It will make more than lvl 1 or 2, but if you have acess to lvl 3 and 4, this is a sorta waste of time.
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Taguchi Hiroko
Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:02:00 -
[72]
Nice guide. Btw, a lot of these ninja salvager likes to take loot when they see the missioner not on sight. not sure what they're thinking (come back in a bs?). I used to cloak in a suicide catalyst just to wait for them to flag and then pod them (guess you won't be coming back too soon). Good fun.
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Kahega Amielden
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Posted - 2008.04.29 23:52:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Taguchi Hiroko Nice guide. Btw, a lot of these ninja salvager likes to take loot when they see the missioner not on sight. not sure what they're thinking (come back in a bs?). I used to cloak in a suicide catalyst just to wait for them to flag and then pod them (guess you won't be coming back too soon). Good fun.
Yup. As I said before, if you have a PVP ship in the system, you can use the tactics described in the guide to get your inner YARR on. Who knows, maybe if you keep doing it they'll stop asking for salvaging to flag you to the owner.
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YzakJoule
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.04.30 12:21:00 -
[74]
ggod, guide, explained a few things I was unsure about in detail.
Ninja Salvaging, its all good fun. |
Mc Fraser
Scream Inc. Moral Decay.
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Posted - 2008.04.30 14:30:00 -
[75]
i am a mission runner who does not salvage or loot. i offer my mission salvage in local and normally get turned down with people thinking im there to kill them.
i make more isk by not salvaging and running another mission than i would if i sat there and looted and salvaged the mission.
only person that has taken me up on salvage was actually ninja salvaging a room i had all ready left when i asked in local
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.04.30 20:51:00 -
[76]
Originally by: catheleen Great guide, thanks alot! You got an idea on how much ISK per Hour this can earn in high sec?
I'd say 5 to 10 million per hour, on average, depending on where you are. It's kind of "feast or famine", sometimes you get so many sites you can't salvage them fast enough, sometimes it's hard to probe down any at all.
---------------- I'm looking for a good corp to join. |
Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Spaceways
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Posted - 2008.04.30 20:52:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Mc Fraser i am a mission runner who does not salvage or loot. i offer my mission salvage in local and normally get turned down with people thinking im there to kill them.
What fun would that be?
---------------- I'm looking for a good corp to join. |
YzakJoule
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.01 00:28:00 -
[78]
just got smacked in local ninja salvaging, made me feel all warm and fuzzy.
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Had Enough
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Posted - 2008.05.04 11:08:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jitabug Is it just me or does anyone else now feel inspired to actively track certain posters down and salvage their wrecks?
You're not the only one. |
Tamoko
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Posted - 2008.05.04 11:25:00 -
[80]
Quote: I don't, and I personally don't recommend it, but I guess that's your decision. I personally will give the missionrunner a portion of the salvage if they avoid being a **** about it, but I guess that's your decision
You're full of it, mate. Not only did you not share with me, but you tried baiting me in to aggroing on to you, then pulled loot from a can and toyed with me |
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.04 13:37:00 -
[81]
You sure that wasn't me? You look familiar......
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Lyta Reimalken
Minmatar No Fear Buccaneers
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Posted - 2008.05.04 19:35:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Lyta Reimalken on 04/05/2008 19:37:09 For those looking for a counter to ninja salvaging... Get this... Salvage the wreck yourself first. I salvage wrecks as I go, and I specifically choose a ship with free high slots to make sure I CAN salvage as I go. That way, some little frigate cant beat me to it. After all, a lot of wrecks go unsalvaged, might as well be some little frigate getting them, spread the wealth :D
You people treat it like its some kind of exploit. Its not.
Its just your failure to capitalise on resources at your doorstep, and then whining when someone else beats you to the good stuff... |
Billy Sastard
Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Wrath.
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Posted - 2008.05.05 19:22:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Sharp Feather Why cant people play the game how its mean to play... all theses ninjas, suicide attack and thief need to be punched in the face IRL.
cowards.
F@$&?# Cowards.
The worts being and the plague of humanity are the MOTHA $&?!#@# cowards. But its not surprising at all to find a lot of them on the internet... since nerdz without power IRL try to cause pain in game because they are too WEAK to do it IRL... or have been traited that way IRL.
aaaaaalalalaal, oh well it will never change anyway. If you search me, Im outside.
PS: If you find my english silly, try to speak french as well as I speak english and then you can say sh?t.
Who made you the lord of all that is EVE so that you can dictate how the game is supposed to be played? I do belive that when salvaging was introduced into the game CCP had this very sort of gameplay in mind. Salvage was not added as somethign to give mission runners more isk, it was intended to be another career path for people to take, and people 'ninja salvaging' are just doing things as CCP intended. -=^=-
My views do not represent my alliance. TBH, my posts do not even represent my own views...I am posting while asleep. |
Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.06 11:22:00 -
[84]
Wait wait wait. Hold the presses!
You mean Sharp Feather is NOT the Lord of all that is EvE?!
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Svedge II
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Posted - 2008.05.06 19:54:00 -
[85]
A thing most raging carebears doesn't know is that salvaging after a lvl 4 mission will reduce their isk/h. |
Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.07 02:25:00 -
[86]
Ok, flame me if you must but this was fun.
Scan down a level III mission, warp to it, cloaked of course , find it just beginning with a noobish player in an NPC corp.
I zip back to station, grab the trusty 'cane, return and got to popping NPC's left and right. I got a "Gee-whiz, thanks for helping me complete my mission, mister!" in local which I ignored.
I don't know how the bounties work there, if they got shared or not, but I recieved a decent bounty paycheck (that's paycheque for you over the ocean fellas) for the work involved.
I immediately go to station, grab salvaging stabber and got to work. I think, "what the hell..." and get to looting also. He did return in a small salvaging/looting destroyer but all that was left was 4 wrecks which I continued to loot and salvage. To add insult to injury I left one unsalvaged, but looted, wreck.
I thanked him in local and left.
Not one word of smack. Not one word period. Total silence.
If the bounties were NOT shared, he MAYBE got 2-3 or 4 kills. I sucked up the rest.
So pretty much all he got was the agent payoff and I 'Ninja'd' almost the entirety of his 'in mission' earnings.
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David Detritus
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.05.11 15:41:00 -
[87]
Wow, topics like this invite a ton of smack don't they?
Not that I don't ninja-salvage myself on occasion, you must admit that it makes you a complete bastard if you do it, people work hard to earn crappy isk on missions and salvage is where the real reward is.
Still, trit bars go down well with a pint of guinness and some whining, haha
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.11 15:43:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Dotard
Ok, flame me if you must but this was fun.
Scan down a level III mission, warp to it, cloaked of course , find it just beginning with a noobish player in an NPC corp.
I zip back to station, grab the trusty 'cane, return and got to popping NPC's left and right. I got a "Gee-whiz, thanks for helping me complete my mission, mister!" in local which I ignored.
I don't know how the bounties work there, if they got shared or not, but I recieved a decent bounty paycheck (that's paycheque for you over the ocean fellas) for the work involved.
I immediately go to station, grab salvaging stabber and got to work. I think, "what the hell..." and get to looting also. He did return in a small salvaging/looting destroyer but all that was left was 4 wrecks which I continued to loot and salvage. To add insult to injury I left one unsalvaged, but looted, wreck.
I thanked him in local and left.
Not one word of smack. Not one word period. Total silence.
If the bounties were NOT shared, he MAYBE got 2-3 or 4 kills. I sucked up the rest.
So pretty much all he got was the agent payoff and I 'Ninja'd' almost the entirety of his 'in mission' earnings.
Now, why not just do your own mission for full mission earnings?
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Hanneshannes
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Posted - 2008.05.12 00:15:00 -
[89]
Is there a probing guide?
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Had Enough
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Posted - 2008.05.12 01:09:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Hanneshannes Is there a probing guide?
Well there is the OP of this thread and a few more here.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=431586
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=445716
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWhdJpo29wg -
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.12 11:39:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Sigul Siento on 12/05/2008 11:40:18
Originally by: David Detritus Wow, topics like this invite a ton of smack don't they?
Not that I don't ninja-salvage myself on occasion, you must admit that it makes you a complete bastard if you do it, people work hard to earn crappy isk on missions and salvage is where the real reward is.
Still, trit bars go down well with a pint of guinness and some whining, haha
Work hard? Nah, it's an endless stream of confirmed income in a nearly controlled setting (the uncontrolled bit being people busting in to get you, the wrecks, or the loot). You Can always get a mission, you know what you will face, there aren't anywhere near enough missions to provide much excitement after a while of doing it, and the income from mission reward + bounties isn't crappy.
And I'm so posh I drink trit bars dissolved in cask strenght single malt
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.05.13 13:58:00 -
[92]
I was toying with two posts:
"Kahega made me the man I am today..."
or...
"Kahega wrote the book on Ninja Salvaging. I just perfected the craft."
Both are true, but I'll let you guys decide which one works better in this instance. (Three wardecs in three short weeks is proof that this is a very lucrative profession.)
Supported by CCP as well, I might add.
"Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will, no matter if they belong to the same corporation or not and doing so is not considered as an exploit." - GM Ytterbium
o7 Kahega, and thanks.
We're Recruiting! |
Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.05.13 20:26:00 -
[93]
Yarr! My home PC is disconnected from the Internet until the end of the month, so I'm training up some skills for a few weeks and looking forward to trying some mission ganks in June. Tchell, u want to train up for remote energy/armor tranfer and help me out?
---------------- [insert signature here] |
Serafini
Amarr Prime Romanian Corp
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Posted - 2008.05.14 05:56:00 -
[94]
Why can you use tractor beams when doing this?
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GB Man
|
Posted - 2008.05.14 13:35:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Serafini Why can you use tractor beams when doing this?
Technically your not supposed to be able to tractor beam other players wrecks/Cans unless you are in a gang with them or the same corp. If someone is doing otherwise, it's an exploit and should be reported immediately.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.05.14 19:48:00 -
[96]
What you CAN do, a bit aside from the salvaging, is to use a tractor when stealing loot, by simply making your own can to tractor and fill with loot. The loot is then yours and if your cheap lootstealing frigate gets popped a gangmember or alt or something can scoop it up unmolested. And you can come back in something big and mean to get the guy who shot you.
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Dotard
Minmatar Eternal Guardians Corp. The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.15 12:01:00 -
[97]
Got together with Tc and the infamous Suddenly Ninjas gang for the first time last night.
Was most fun running with these folks. I couldn't get a mission runner to smack for the life of me even though I was looting the wrecks and toying with him, after he decided to sic his drones on me, by not shooting at him and just popping his drones.
So I invite the SN gang to join me in my efforts of clearing this cluttered space and still no smack talk.
So, mission runners, please set your local comms channel to 'Auto Smack' and provide us some fuel to continue our noble cause of keeping our space free of wrecks cluttering up the place. Thanks!
Oh, and pre-edited to add:
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Dotard
Suddenly Samurai
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Posted - 2008.06.07 13:41:00 -
[98]
Edited by: Dotard on 07/06/2008 13:44:06
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn I was toying with two posts:
"Kahega made me the man I am today..."
or...
"Kahega wrote the book on Ninja Salvaging. I just perfected the craft."
Both are true, but I'll let you guys decide which one works better in this instance. (Three wardecs in three short weeks is proof that this is a very lucrative profession.)
Supported by CCP as well, I might add.
"Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will, no matter if they belong to the same corporation or not and doing so is not considered as an exploit." - GM Ytterbium
o7 Kahega, and thanks.
Was trying to find an acceptable way to bump this post to see if I could stir up some new interest in this noble profession when I saw the above post.
How did I let that slide by me. Tc perfected it?! HA!
I was doing this afore she was outta diapers! War Dec's are not the measure of success in this line of work. Just, as Tc mentioned, it is only a measure of how lucrative.
Sorry Tc, 'tis I, Dotard who hath perfected this fine art.
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Shakka Zulu
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Posted - 2008.06.09 02:42:00 -
[99]
After reading through the thread... I really, really am considering training up the rest of my scanning skills and giving ninja salvaging a go.
I am a mission runner. I run level 4s in a CNR, in high sec (though not in any even remotely busy spots) and make 30+ million isk an hour. But I would be more than please to spend a day making 5m/h "griefing" all these whiners.
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Professor Leech
Southern Light Entertainment Black Scope Project
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Posted - 2008.06.09 03:29:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Dotard
Was trying to find an acceptable way to bump this post to see if I could stir up some new interest in this noble profession when I saw the above post.
Some further advice on the ninja salvaging.
Use the ship scanner to find mission runners ships then set the scanner for 750,000,000 km (5au) and drop your 5 au probes.
If you really want to cover the whole system press F11 use the system map to figure out how to lay out your probes without overlapping.
Originally by: Crawe DeRaven this thread is obviously going places
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Joe Starbreaker
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Posted - 2008.06.09 06:16:00 -
[101]
I think this thread should be made a sticky, but maybe move the more "helpful" posts to the beginning and move the carebear tears below them. I re-read the OP and am not sure I really agree with the technique. After experimenting with various methods involving different types of probes, I've come to prefer a single Fathom probe dropped in mid-system. It takes far less time and trouble for nearly the same results as other methods. I wish that were near the top of the thread.
------------------------------------------------
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Dotard
Suddenly Samurai
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:16:00 -
[102]
Agree with the Fathoms. Although I drop 3 or 4 so that they do overlap as much as possible.
This increases the strength of the scan in the overlapping areas. IIRC.
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Steyr Daghan
thx for all the fish Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.06.09 12:58:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Ninjasalvaging, as you might already know, is the act of probing down hisec mission runners and salvaging the wrecks they leave behind. As you can imagine, this ****es off a lot of missionrunners and as such has lead to a lot of delicious tears on these very forums.
Right. That last sentense says it clearly. This is a griefing practice and nothing else. It's not about making ISK.
You'll get no "delicious tears" from me I have no problems avoiding or dealing with griefers, and I spend most of my time in 0.0 anyway where this sort of players can't hide under the comforting blanket of CCP protection. However, I would wish that you people stopped pretending it's actually about the ISK.
I guess that does make you feel better than to admit it's just a way to derive pleasure from destroying other peoples fun, cause that does sound a bit pathetic, doesn't it? Never the less, it's the only thing this is about and you should stop being hypocritical about it.
Yeah I know. Now there will be posts from griefers saying they make 47 mil every 5 minutes from "ninja salvaging" but it's BS. Anyone who don't believe me can try this simple test: when you get scanned out on a mission and the griefer starts salvaging you wrecks, blow the wrecks up before he gets to them. If it was about the ISK he'd leave (obviously since there are no iskies to be made) but he won't. In fact he will enjoy it even more since he now got proof that you are annoyed. Try it, and ffs stop pretending this is about ISK rather than boosting feeble egos by ruining other peoples fun.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 14:47:00 -
[104]
Complaints about the justice of ninja salvaging come in two competing varieties:
1. There is no money to be made in it, they could just be running missions themselves--and who doesn't LOVE to do missions?--so obviously they're just doing it to grief meh.
2. ZOMG it's risk free mega isks!
These two contradictory viewpoints seem to be split about 50/50, which is amusing. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.06.09 14:50:00 -
[105]
It's for ISK and the fun factor. That's the beauty of it. How you split the ISK/fun ratio is up to you.
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Steyr Daghan
thx for all the fish Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:14:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Steyr Daghan on 09/06/2008 15:21:08
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Complaints about the justice of ninja salvaging come in two competing varieties:
1. There is no money to be made in it, they could just be running missions themselves--and who doesn't LOVE to do missions?--so obviously they're just doing it to grief meh.
2. ZOMG it's risk free mega isks!
These two contradictory viewpoints seem to be split about 50/50, which is amusing.
What's your point?
The second argument is uninformed and wrong. How does that in any way invalidate the first argument which is correct?
Edit: Besides, I wasn't complaining about the practice itself. I was complaining about you guys being hipocritical, not admitting that this is about griefing.
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:31:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Steyr Daghan
What's your point?
The second argument is uninformed and wrong. How does that in any way invalidate the first argument which is correct?
Both arguments are largely uninformed and wrong. The second one almost by definition. The first, more by exaggeration and overgeneralization (plus a good bit of narcissism.) * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
Steyr Daghan
thx for all the fish Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2008.06.09 15:39:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Steyr Daghan
What's your point?
The second argument is uninformed and wrong. How does that in any way invalidate the first argument which is correct?
Both arguments are largely uninformed and wrong. The second one almost by definition. The first, more by exaggeration and overgeneralization (plus a good bit of narcissism.)
Not quite. You've said nothing that makes it less valid.
Most of you are just smart enough to realize that it wouldn't be very bright to take the bait and admit it's first and foremost about ruining other peoples enjoyment of the game.
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Shakka Zulu
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Posted - 2008.06.09 16:43:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Steyr Daghan
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Ninjasalvaging, as you might already know, is the act of probing down hisec mission runners and salvaging the wrecks they leave behind. As you can imagine, this ****es off a lot of missionrunners and as such has lead to a lot of delicious tears on these very forums.
Right. That last sentense says it clearly. This is a griefing practice and nothing else. It's not about making ISK.
You'll get no "delicious tears" from me I have no problems avoiding or dealing with griefers, and I spend most of my time in 0.0 anyway where this sort of players can't hide under the comforting blanket of CCP protection. However, I would wish that you people stopped pretending it's actually about the ISK.
I guess that does make you feel better than to admit it's just a way to derive pleasure from destroying other peoples fun, cause that does sound a bit pathetic, doesn't it? Never the less, it's the only thing this is about and you should stop being hypocritical about it.
Yeah I know. Now there will be posts from griefers saying they make 47 mil every 5 minutes from "ninja salvaging" but it's BS. Anyone who don't believe me can try this simple test: when you get scanned out on a mission and the griefer starts salvaging you wrecks, blow the wrecks up before he gets to them. If it was about the ISK he'd leave (obviously since there are no iskies to be made) but he won't. In fact he will enjoy it even more since he now got proof that you are annoyed. Try it, and ffs stop pretending this is about ISK rather than boosting feeble egos by ruining other peoples fun.
Ninja-salvagers are good on oh, so many levels.
If you let him ninja-salvage, it drives down rig prices for me. Win!
If you blow up wrecks, I may pay a few isk more for rig prices, but at least he is compelling you to help keep the market from overflowing with all the refined minerals from that mission loot!
And, either way, I get to read about all the fun times on the forums.
And those are just ways ninja-salvaging owns without me even participating!!
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Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
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Posted - 2008.06.09 18:37:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Steyr Daghan
Originally by: Tsanse Kinske
Originally by: Steyr Daghan
What's your point?
The second argument is uninformed and wrong. How does that in any way invalidate the first argument which is correct?
Both arguments are largely uninformed and wrong. The second one almost by definition. The first, more by exaggeration and overgeneralization (plus a good bit of narcissism.)
Not quite. You've said nothing that makes it less valid.
It's difficult to prove a prejudice based mainly on someone's personal animosities and projections on the inner nature of others wrong. For instance if you were to say, "Virtually all mission runners are nothing more than isk-obsessed tools who don't understand what a multi-player game is about", it would be even more foolish, and just as pointless to argue with you.
All I can do is point out some inconsistencies and overstatements, and let readers make up their own minds. I'm quite confident that people who are relatively dispassionate about it are perfectly capable of doing so more rationally and more even-handedly than you.
Now I will expect you to come back and claim that there's nothing personal involved in it, that you couldn't care less about ninja-salvagers, etc. IF SO, all I have to say is that you're doing a terrible job of getting that across. * * * In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
-Douglas Adams, writing about EVE |
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GoldFox88
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Posted - 2008.06.09 19:05:00 -
[111]
heh, this sound like a law here in NC.
When someone breaks into your house (mission) and steals stuff (salvage), you're not allowed to shoot at them (SKS, or your ship of choice) UNLESS they threaten you with another firearm (target you, then fire).
....conclusion..... our state plays too much EVE.
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jinkoti boslin2
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Posted - 2008.06.16 23:40:00 -
[112]
Edited by: jinkoti boslin2 on 16/06/2008 23:43:43 oh my god kids!
I found this thread and thought.. ok, this may be a way to make a load of salvage to build rigs with,, It would save me doing missions and then comin' back with a salvage ship.. Brilliant!
I fully plan on doing this in the near future, and offering to join fleet and tractor all the wrecks into one easy place for the mission runner to loot.
As for you guys crying about this being 'griefing' C'mon... that would be if i stole your loot for a fight.. suicide ganked ya etc..
yours truly 'comin for your salvage soon' Jinks x
P.s. the 'stop pretending that this is about making isk' comment made me p*ss!! Everything's about making isk.. isn't it?
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Karan Kaldarian
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.06.17 02:31:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Billy Sastard
.....I do belive that when salvaging was introduced into the game CCP had this very sort of gameplay in mind. Salvage was not added as somethign to give mission runners more isk, it was intended to be another career path for people to take, and people 'ninja salvaging' are just doing things as CCP intended.
I think you are rightà. but I suspect that all we were fooled in this brilliant "solution". Personally I would have preferred to find 0.0 space more interesting (risks vs. income/fun) and use my efforts in escaping pirates there.
I think that CCP had to solve a growing broblem time ago: not everybody loves pvp and low sec is loosing easy preys every year . So allowing ninja salvaging they mixed some "pvp activities" in Concord space. Of course something can go wrong when ninja salvagers and mission runners are face to face. It MUST go wrong (Concord is sleeping, carebears attack first cause they are not aware of risks or strategies, pirates change ship and his name in Houdini , etc etc). This is a strategy to force people, that do not want to get involved in pvp in that moment, in some "social activities".
Of course ninja salv. isn¦t done for Isk, and it¦ll sure evolve even if all the carebears would discover that salvaging is not always profitable (you loose precius time in salvaging and then reselling, instead of getting more bounties and Lp) and that they have not to use any drone, be aligned, stay minimum time in deadspace, blah blah blah.
My question to CCP is : everybody sure that this is all ok?? IÆm not talkink of game mechanics (ninja salvaging is mechanically correct)àààbut IÆm just trying to imagine what would be the next "solution" for those "social activites". Why ?? Because this was not a great solution and it is not really solving that problem. IÆm so curiousà..
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Xanteria Lor
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Posted - 2008.06.17 11:47:00 -
[114]
Entering next stage before the original mission runner in a Serpentis mission - aggroing the whole stage, warping out before Frigs get too close.
Salvaging and looting the remaints can be ohhh so rewarding.
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Jethro Amar
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:12:00 -
[115]
Can you really do nothing about the thief. I've never been in this situation before, but i guess one could always get a non-rigged Raven, fit it with t1 non named stuff and smartbombs, target the guy, get close, pop his ship, pop his pod and then laugh at concord since this t1 raven is paid back by insurance.
Also: caldari missions are mostly Guristas, their salvage is poor - no armor plates, no trit bars :/
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Dotard
Suddenly Samurai
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Posted - 2008.06.17 12:12:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Steyr Daghan
You'll get no "delicious tears" from me...
The tears in your post were tasty. Maybe not delicious, but still yummy.
Originally by: Steyr Daghan ...try this simple test: when you get scanned out on a mission and the griefer starts salvaging you wrecks, blow the wrecks up before he gets to them. If it was about the ISK he'd leave (obviously since there are no iskies to be made) but he won't. In fact he will enjoy it even more since he now got proof that you are annoyed....
True, true. I do quite enjoy it when the runners get to popping the wrecks. They would rather lose the lootz, which sometimes is worth a whole lot more than the salvages, than let me just salvage it. So when this happens I will approach every single wreck just to be sure they pop 'em all.
Originally by: Steyr Daghan Try it, and ffs stop pretending this is about ISK rather than boosting feeble egos by ruining other peoples fun.
I'm creating fun for me. It is fun for me. I really don't give a damn if it's fun for you. I'm not here to increase your enjoyment of the game, just mine.
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Captian Lanfear
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Posted - 2008.06.17 19:39:00 -
[117]
Very funny stuff. I say steal all you want since you have the safety of your parents basement while using their internet connection. A lot of folks grow a pair when they get behind a computer where no one can get to them. I had one person actually loot my stuff one time and thought it was very funny. I actually felt like I was helping the needy, so I think it is a good thing. I got plenty of ISK from doing missions, so why not share?
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Guillame Herschel
The Graduates Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2008.06.17 23:00:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Guillame Herschel on 17/06/2008 23:03:06 I've used a Rupture as a probe/salvage ship all in one. Works a treat.
High: Recon or Scan Launcher, Tractor Beam, 4 Salvagers Mids: AB, Kinetic Amp, Large Shield Extender Lows: 3x Overdrives, DCU, Warp Core Stabilizer Rigs: 3x Gravity Capacitor
Why a tractor beam? So I can drag my own jetcan behind me for putting the metal scraps in (it's been a while since I've done this - do salavgers still come up with metal scraps?).
I got about 400 bookmarks in Motsu. :)
Oh, and I did it for a very good gameplay/roleplay reason: to build rigs, of course.
-- The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then --
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2008.06.18 19:13:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Steyr Daghan You'll get no "delicious tears" from me
you sure about that?
Originally by: Steyr Daghan I guess that does make you feel better than to admit it's just a way to derive pleasure from destroying other peoples fun
Salvaging after your missions is fun?
Originally by: Guillame Herschel Why a tractor beam? So I can drag my own jetcan behind me for putting the metal scraps in (it's been a while since I've done this - do salavgers still come up with metal scraps?).
Metal scraps come from non-faction wrecks, like mercenaries, and EoM. Your regular pirates just drop salvage parts. I typically just skip over merc/EoM missions, which are very valuable in terms of loot but much less valuable to salvage. In fact, my salvaging Executioner usually gets the message "your cargohold is too small for the potential salvage parts" when I try to salvage one of those -- a clear indicator that metal scraps are coming.
However your jetcan/tractorbeam trick is quite nice for when you're looting as well as salvaging!
. Seeking frigateers!
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Calacheng
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Posted - 2008.06.24 01:25:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Calacheng on 24/06/2008 01:27:49 Edited by: Calacheng on 24/06/2008 01:25:47
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz blah blah blah... and stealing other peoples salvage ... blah blah blah
Prove to me that they are your wrecks. Go on...
I can prove it by this GM post about wrecks
Salvaging other peoples wrecks is stealing and salvagethieves are the lowlife scums of EVE.
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Fuhshizzle
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Posted - 2008.06.24 02:25:00 -
[121]
Originally by: Calacheng Edited by: Calacheng on 24/06/2008 01:27:49 Edited by: Calacheng on 24/06/2008 01:25:47
Originally by: Oldin Kinrod
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz blah blah blah... and stealing other peoples salvage ... blah blah blah
Prove to me that they are your wrecks. Go on...
I can prove it by this GM post about wrecks
Salvaging other peoples wrecks is stealing and salvagethieves are the lowlife scums of EVE.
Nice try....
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Dotard
Suddenly Samurai
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Posted - 2008.06.24 11:45:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Calacheng
Salvaging other peoples wrecks is stealing and salvage thieves are the lowlife scums of EVE.
[/quote
Took me a long time to carve that niche'
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.06.24 15:49:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Calacheng Salvaging other peoples wrecks is stealing and salvage thieves are the lowlife scums of EVE.
Thank you! My tank is overflowing from your statement! As I always say, "Carebear Tears fuel my ship!"
Originally by: Dotard Took me a long time to carve that niche
...and Suddenly Ninjas is welcoming you into the Corp with open arms because of your skills. One of EvE's Best Ninja Salvagers is joining EvE's Biggest and Best Ninja Salvaging Corporation...
How will the Carebears survive?
We're Recruiting! |
Princess Gally
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:02:00 -
[124]
Ninja salvagers are as carebears as missioners. You won't fool anyone... -------------ONCOMING REVOLUTION------------ Miners united. Set your Trit prices to 8.00! -------------------------------------------- |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.06.24 16:07:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Princess Gally Ninja salvagers are as carebears as missioners. You won't fool anyone...
...says the Alt.
At least I have the balls to post with my Main, and with my Corp name showing. Ten Wardecs in two months, and we're still going strong.
We're Recruiting! |
Dotard
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:26:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Princess Gally Ninja salvagers are as carebears as missioners. You won't fool anyone...
It has been demonstrated lately that Suddenly Ninjas are more like Badgers than Carebears.
They mind their own buisness doing their own thing. But go poke them with a stick and see what happens.
I just joined SN last night. First thing I did was go poke their biggest Badger with a stick and guess what happened? That fat little fur-ball had teeth!
2008.06.26 01:24:00
Victim: Dotard Corp: Suddenly Ninjas Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Vagabond System: Dodixie Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 11845
Involved parties:
Name: Satan possessed Suddenly Ninjas corp-mate (laid the final blow) Security: 5.0 Corp: Suddenly Ninjas Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Ain't tellin'. Cause it wasn't smart to poke this toothy critter with a stick. Weapon: Scourge Heavy Missile Damage Done: 11845
Destroyed items:
Gyrostabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Barrage M, Qty: 78 Warrior II, Qty: 4 (Drone Bay) Large Shield Extender II, Qty: 2 Pride II Polycarbon Engine Housing I, Qty: 2
Dropped items:
Barrage M, Qty: 4727 (Cargo) Warp Disruptor II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Qty: 5 Tracking Enhancer II Inertia Stabilizers II A Load in my Shorts II Overdrive Injector System II, Qty: 2 Barrage M, Qty: 314 Tears and a Whine II Warrior II (Drone Bay) Prototype Cloaking Device I
If you are in EvE for the fun factor, you really gotta give Suddenly Ninjas a try.
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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Fuhshizzle
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Posted - 2008.06.26 12:52:00 -
[127]
dang varmints!
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Farlon Brando
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Posted - 2008.06.26 15:29:00 -
[128]
there are prolly lots of mission runners out there who leave the wrecks & loot anyways most of the time(like I do). It's just good if someone bothers to do this.
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Ada Applegate
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.07.07 22:45:00 -
[129]
Some people don't do salvaging, so the wrecks go to waste. Ninja Salvagers are helping to clean up the universe!! Looting and Salvaging can slow down your ISK/hr. The ship you do missions in is a totally different loadout than the salvaging ship.
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MWEI
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Posted - 2008.07.08 03:50:00 -
[130]
Edited by: MWEI on 08/07/2008 03:50:12 I never get what's so fun about salvaging.
Unless it makes more than 20mil/hour you'd get more money just by doing another mission at the same time, and it wouldn't be as boring.
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Sin Fae
Income Redistribution Service
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Posted - 2008.07.09 05:29:00 -
[131]
Originally by: MWEI Edited by: MWEI on 08/07/2008 03:50:12 I never get what's so fun about salvaging.
Unless it makes more than 20mil/hour you'd get more money just by doing another mission at the same time, and it wouldn't be as boring.
Yeah, that's why I steal ore at 20-60 mil per hour. Ransoming the mission item can spice up any salvager's day however.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.07.09 12:28:00 -
[132]
Originally by: MWEI Edited by: MWEI on 08/07/2008 03:50:12 I never get what's so fun about salvaging.
Unless it makes more than 20mil/hour you'd get more money just by doing another mission at the same time, and it wouldn't be as boring.
It's not just the salvaging. Looting adds fun because it adds danger.
1v1 is purt-near non-existant 'out there'. When I do get aggressed and I run off for the PvP ship there is a 9 outta 10 chance I'll get a 1v1.
Engaging in asshatery is always fun.
Then there is the times you warp in cloaked on a probe-hit and find a Phat miner mining away in a mission belt in a jet can. I don't know if it is a bug or what, but you can (or at least I can(?)) sneak up to the can and open it without decloaking. I BM the can, wait until it is a fraction to the full mark, warp off and return in an indy and swipe-0-matic.
And don't forget the War-Decs. Those contribute boat-loads of fun.
--------------- Nerf You! Buff Me!
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nails
Caldari Ota Corps
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Posted - 2008.07.10 06:42:00 -
[133]
ya I found that having an alt with a T2 Tier 2 battleship was easier to loot with. It might move a bit slower but if you can balance it right you get so much tractor beam bonus on the T2 battleships it's the best salvager in the game.
Just be ready to push out some isk and time for training and the ship. --------------
http://nails.otaku.jp/ota-corps/ |
JordanParey
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Posted - 2008.07.10 08:11:00 -
[134]
I am going to apply to suddenly ninjas soon. this thread made me have a good laugh.. well. not the thread itself...the carebear replies were funny.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.07.10 17:09:00 -
[135]
Originally by: nails It might move a bit slower but if you can balance it right you get so much tractor beam bonus on the T2 battleships it's the best salvager in the game.
I tend to disagree.
There's little chance you're fitting Salvage Tackle rigs to your ship, while my Executioner has three. Add this to my Salvaging Level V and Salvage improving implants, and this means all I need to do is get within 5K of your wrecks, and they're mine.
We're Recruiting! |
Gnipp3r
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.07.31 21:43:00 -
[136]
Thank you for this guide, finally found my first complex tonight. They had just left it leaving me with quite a few salvagable wrecks, and some VIPs! I contracted the VIPs and I await the response. o/\o - <-Gnipp3r. |
Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
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Posted - 2008.07.31 22:25:00 -
[137]
Sivala + Gravimetric Probes
Get quite a few navy raven isk farmers there. Drop a Grav Quest at the centre of the system and you can almost guarantee a hit on a navy raven at this moment in time.
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.08.01 02:19:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Terranid Meester Sivala + Gravimetric Probes
Get quite a few navy raven isk farmers there. Drop a Grav Quest at the centre of the system and you can almost guarantee a hit on a navy raven at this moment in time.
Nice tip - I may have to fly out of Amarr space to do this. I've just about had it with the lack of density. I mean, I would think Penirgman would be OK, or maybe Youl, but it is rare to find people (easier on the weekend, though)...
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Lexandrius Megens
Interstellar Federal Forces
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Posted - 2008.08.07 08:13:00 -
[139]
Just blow up all your wrecks as soon as you leave the room and warp to the next... problem solved.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.07 13:22:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Lexandrius Megens Just blow up all your wrecks as soon as you leave the room and warp to the next... problem solved.
Not really, considering I usually follow the Mission Runner and start salvaging as soon as they blow up the first ship. It's something, I guess.
We're Recruiting! |
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.08 00:16:00 -
[141]
Could someone (Mitnal) sticky thi thread please? it is very helpful to aspiring ninjas
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.08 12:48:00 -
[142]
Originally by: JordanParey Could someone (Mitnal) sticky thi thread please? it is very helpful to aspiring ninjas
/Signed
Kahega is the "Father" of the Ninja Salvaging Profession, and I, as the CEO of the Most Successful Ninja Salvaging and Looting Corporation in New Eden support this.
ITT: I stroke my own ePeen, while providing my support to something very well deserved.
We're Recruiting! |
Kevin Darling
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Posted - 2008.08.10 17:51:00 -
[143]
Edited by: Kevin Darling on 10/08/2008 17:50:50
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2008.08.10 17:51:00 -
[144]
Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here's a tip: if while flying to your mark the screen goes green, warp away asap (and pray if applicable). It's a storyline mission I think, where you have to survive through a toxic cloud. In a level 4, the damage is enough to splat a cheetah in 1-2 hits, depending on skill and equipment. I've gotten away in structure a few times before, but this time I barely got away in my pod (not sure if the toxic will podkill you, but I took some pod damage and didn't stick around to investigate further).
And people say ninja salvagers have it easy with no danger
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Antarr Slagh
Trans Eve Organization
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Posted - 2008.08.10 21:47:00 -
[145]
What is the difference between the recon probes and the other ones?
--------------------------------------------- Runner of the Fleet Lottos! |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.11 04:38:00 -
[146]
Recon probes take less time to scan.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.11 04:55:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 11/08/2008 04:56:50
Quote:
Kahega is the "Father" of the Ninja Salvaging Profession, and I, as the CEO of the Most Successful Ninja Salvaging and Looting Corporation in New Eden support this.
Not really. I first heard about it in a whining /wrists post by a missionrunner complaining that someone would dare enter HIS mission and salvage HIS wrecks in the PVE sologame that is EVE. I really just publicized it and wrote a guide to spite him . That is, someone else thought of it first.
Quote: What is the difference between the recon probes and the other ones?
Recon probes are used with the recon probe launcher. They have a faster scan time, but the signal strength (that is, the chance to land a hit) is tiny. Scanner probes are usually used for exploration, but have massive scanning strengths and are great for finding ships too.
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Maggie Magnifico
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Posted - 2008.08.13 14:31:00 -
[148]
I would just like to say, ninja salvagers are the s****of this game, suicide gankers...i can handle, because there is a way to nullify their threat (no autopilot)
Does the mission runner own the wreck? well look at the evidence...He/she invested time, ammo, drones, risk of losing ship, isk for repairs...the list is endless...all to make that one wreck, and what did you invest in it? a probe?
ive played the game now for about 4 months, it took me a long time to get up to level 4 missions in dodixie, i have done 4 and every single one was ninja salvaged
The fact is you create wrecks for benefit, be it loot, salvage, mission objectives or bounty, and if you choose to create them for salvage, you should be safe from disgusting theives
funnily enough i dont blame the ninja's (i hate their guts and i want them all to f*** off and die) because its part of a game mechanic and i suppose its just another way to make money (even if its imorral and makes you a t*t). CCP need to figure out what makes their game fun, and what makes it frustrating, and seing your isk/hour drop substantially because some tw** cant be bothered to do the missions for himself is NOT my idea of a fun, fair game.
I know if i dont like it i can go and play a WoW PvE server, and the fact is, i dont like it, its horrible, the games pace is slow enough as it is, its disgusting that CCP allows other players the ability to leech off of your time investment
This thread is disgusting and ccp are even worse for allowing it, there is nothing you can say to justify stealing from other peoples missions, the fact is, the mission runner OWNS the wreck, you did nothing to create it, and your bad players that deserve to be punished
go through and spellcheck the post, tell me im wrong, i dont care, cos you are ALL scum
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Johnelle Ky
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:01:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico
The fact is you create wrecks for benefit, be it loot, salvage, mission objectives or bounty, and if you choose to create them for salvage, you should be safe from disgusting theives
...
go through and spellcheck the post, tell me im wrong, i dont care, cos you are ALL scum
Spell-checking is way too easy...
The FACT is that CCP owns this game and makes the rules and you have agreed to play by those rules. Yes, you pay for the privilege of playing the game, but nobody is forcing you to play. If "ninja salvaging" was truly causing a significant level of unhappiness, instead of just a vocal minority, CCP would change the rules to keep the majority of their customers happy. I am not going to say you are wrong or you should change your mind, but your opinions do not match the facts.
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Slymenstra DeGwar
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Posted - 2008.08.13 15:28:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico I would just like to say, ninja salvagers are the s****of this game, suicide gankers...i can handle, because there is a way to nullify their threat (no autopilot)
Does the mission runner own the wreck? well look at the evidence...He/she invested time, ammo, drones, risk of losing ship, isk for repairs...the list is endless...all to make that one wreck, and what did you invest in it? a probe?
ive played the game now for about 4 months, it took me a long time to get up to level 4 missions in dodixie, i have done 4 and every single one was ninja salvaged
The fact is you create wrecks for benefit, be it loot, salvage, mission objectives or bounty, and if you choose to create them for salvage, you should be safe from disgusting theives
funnily enough i dont blame the ninja's (i hate their guts and i want them all to f*** off and die) because its part of a game mechanic and i suppose its just another way to make money (even if its imorral and makes you a t*t). CCP need to figure out what makes their game fun, and what makes it frustrating, and seing your isk/hour drop substantially because some tw** cant be bothered to do the missions for himself is NOT my idea of a fun, fair game.
I know if i dont like it i can go and play a WoW PvE server, and the fact is, i dont like it, its horrible, the games pace is slow enough as it is, its disgusting that CCP allows other players the ability to leech off of your time investment
This thread is disgusting and ccp are even worse for allowing it, there is nothing you can say to justify stealing from other peoples missions, the fact is, the mission runner OWNS the wreck, you did nothing to create it, and your bad players that deserve to be punished
go through and spellcheck the post, tell me im wrong, i dont care, cos you are ALL scum
<Moan> Your tears are so sexy! I think I just had a ninja-gasm! Mmmmm!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.13 17:46:00 -
[151]
Ah, Maggie. I would personally like to thank you for bumping this thread and ensuring that even MORE people read it and become ninjasalvagers.
Also,
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mdopoiex
The Space BorderLine United For 0rder
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Posted - 2008.08.13 22:56:00 -
[152]
Hey Maggie,
LOL boo hoo
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.13 23:55:00 -
[153]
STICKY! STICKY!
Dammit Mitnal, this is really helpful.
On another note, Thank You Kahega.
Your wonderful guide has brought me millions in salvage and lewt.
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Maggie Magnifico
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Posted - 2008.08.14 00:02:00 -
[154]
yeah i agree that ccp makes the rules, and if i dont like them i can get lost, but you say that i havent got the facts straight, when i clearly have, see the bit about investing time, ammo etc...
i challenge one person to come up with a (good) justification for ninja salvaging
I wont accept the following: It makes me good money, its not against the rules or that it makes for good smack against people like me (fair players)
maybe ninja salvaging is ccp's way of encouraging people to spread from the crowded systems and into low sec/courier agents in an effort to control lag, all i can say is that it gets on my ****
dont leech off of other peoples time people, go out and kill the rats yourself if you want the damn salvage
as for the 'boo hoo's, yeah im gutted, imagine if you went and bought a new car and someone came along and removed the clutch and put it in their car...but they arent allowed to touch the shopping in the boot, doesnt make sense, and it isnt realistic...
if i get one good justification i will eat my words (and if you cant put anything else than boo-hoo then it shows how right i am)
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Maggie Magnifico
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Posted - 2008.08.14 00:10:00 -
[155]
oh and as for the 'greifers' picture thing
Getting shot isnt greifing, its the whole premise of half the game
If you get ganked its your own fault, should have stayed in your safe spot
If your stupid enough to give your money away to a scammer, you dont deserve to have it in the first place
You do however deserve to have salvage if you choose to have it, because you made the wreck, and you say 'today i lost'...well, every day you lose because ninja salvagers have no concequence and can do it as long as they like, if it made them aggressive, then it would be fine
no wonder eve has such a little market share, i hope its their downfall, untill then im gonna mission in 0.0
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.14 01:05:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/08/2008 01:10:24 Salvage is not a given. Salvage is when you take a wreck, some useless junk, and make something useful out of it (that is, you SALVAGE something useful from junk). Salvage is a miniprofession that allows people to profit off of wrecks left behind. It was not added as a way for missionrunners to make even more profit.
There are many places where you can salvage. Some missionrunners see the number of wrecks that were just made and decide to salvage in addition to accepting the mission payout. This is just fine. In this case, you're adopting TWO professions...missionrunning, and salvaging. Just because you created the wrecks in a TOTALLY NON-COMPETITIVE ACTIVITY (running missions) doesn't mean that the OTHER profession you're engaging in (salvaging) is not going to be competitive.
Oh, and for those asking for this to be stickied: it's already in the Crime and Punishment Resource Thread (even though it should be in missions and explorations, really). However, I do appreciate people like Maggie bumping it back up and giving more publicity.
Quote: no wonder eve has such a little market share, i hope its their downfall, untill then im gonna mission in 0.0
EVE has been growing every year since it's creation, and I'm willing to bet the mission overhaul coming this winter is going to either make missioning (In hisec) either more risky, less profitable/easy, or both. The fact that you can even mission like you are today is an unintended consequence of other changes which will hopefully be rectified in the future. However, now I'm just ranting.
Anyway, I can't help but feel great at this point. Months ago, ninjasalvaging was a tiny little profession done by a small number of crafty individuals. After numerous whines on the forums, guides being posted, and corps being formed around ninjasalvaging, it's grown incredibly. Now, missionrunners in hubs can expect to have many or most of their missions salvaged. Being a part of the growth of a new EVE profession feels good.
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Orion GUardian
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Posted - 2008.08.15 00:19:00 -
[157]
Of course its a profession, but its nothing other than a high sec profession which speciality lies in bringing bad emotions to the mission runners anyway...The one who does the kill should have the first right on the wrecks, if he lets them be for say...1h or so he can be seen as having foresaken them. Anyway, do as you please its just my opinion that its similar to stealing loot and it should be rated accordingly
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Rein Larno
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Posted - 2008.08.17 14:44:00 -
[158]
bump for the great advice and helping to add to my collection of carebear tears
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Squasar
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.18 02:24:00 -
[159]
Another bump.
Salvaged 1/3 of the wrecks of a dual Corm team and they happened to be towing a jetcan behind them full of loot, so I said what the hell, snagged that too. Came out with a good 23 mil in about 15 minutes.
Always wanted to get into this s****of the earth trade and it pays! Thanks man!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.08.18 03:26:00 -
[160]
Quote: Anyway, do as you please its just my opinion that its similar to stealing loot and it should be rated accordingly
Oh I agree totally. I am in full agreement with removing looting rights on wrecks.
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Squasar
Caldari State Protectorate
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Posted - 2008.08.18 15:29:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Orion GUardian Of course its a profession, but its nothing other than a high sec profession which speciality lies in bringing bad emotions to the mission runners anyway...The one who does the kill should have the first right on the wrecks, if he lets them be for say...1h or so he can be seen as having foresaken them. Anyway, do as you please its just my opinion that its similar to stealing loot and it should be rated accordingly
Just read this one after I posted.
You get rights for an hour after the kill.... so that means a ninja salvager only has between 1 second and an hour (depending on the life of the wreck) to do their thing. That's almost like saying "I have rights to my drones for an hour after I forget them". Because I scoop those up along with the salvage that's left behind to bring in a VERY hefty profit. And guess what, I don't get aggro'd that way either!
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Ecks Orion
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Posted - 2008.08.20 23:58:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico yeah i agree that ccp makes the rules, and if i dont like them i can get lost, but you say that i havent got the facts straight, when i clearly have, see the bit about investing time, ammo etc...
i challenge one person to come up with a (good) justification for ninja salvaging
I wont accept the following: It makes me good money, its not against the rules or that it makes for good smack against people like me (fair players)
I challenge one person to come up with the answer to 2+2!
I won't accept the following: 4 |
Deviant K00p
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Posted - 2008.08.24 07:59:00 -
[163]
Meh. Yeah its a minor irritance. I'm a huge carebear since leaving my previous corps, but since I have more money then God it really doesn't get me down when I get ninja salvaged. If someone is being a real prat about it, I just take the aggro and nuke him. Some may say "thats ******ed why would you throw away a BS just to take down a salvager?" Answer is simple. It makes me happy. Just like "carebear" tears make them happy. I don't knock the profession, and I'm actually quite interested in doing it myself, but honestly, when you boil it down, its just a game. So, scan your missions and gather your salvage. I'm still making my 8-15 mil per mission so I really don't care. Just don't be a **** about it or you may get podded. :D
Originally by: Ecks Orion
I challenge one person to come up with the answer to 2+2!
I won't accept the following: 4
Oh and the answer Ecks, is 2 squared.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.25 17:07:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico i challenge one person to come up with a (good) justification for ninja salvaging
I wont accept the following: It makes me good money, its not against the rules or that it makes for good smack against people like me (fair players)
Carebear Tears Fuel My Ship
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico dont leech off of other peoples time people, go out and kill the rats yourself if you want the damn salvage
No. Please continue to do Missions, and my Corp will continue to salvage them. I take personal offense to your calling me a 'leech', since nobody invited you into my system to do your damn Missions.
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico as for the 'boo hoo's, yeah im gutted, imagine if you went and bought a new car and someone came along and removed the clutch and put it in their car...but they arent allowed to touch the shopping in the boot, doesnt make sense, and it isnt realistic...
That's a bad analogy - I'm not stealing anything, since they're not your wrecks to begin with.
We're Recruiting! |
Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.25 17:08:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Ecks Orion I challenge one person to come up with the answer to 2+2!
Your answer is here.
We're Recruiting! |
Joe Starbreaker
AnTi.
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Posted - 2008.08.25 21:11:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico i challenge one person to come up with a (good) justification for ninja salvaging
I wont accept the following: It makes me good money, its not against the rules or that it makes for good smack
Removing the wrecks reduces lag!
Oh and I support making this thread STICKY.
I remember hearing about ninja salvage around January or February in a hypothetical post by somebody wondering if it could be done. I'm sure others had done it at that point but it wasn't big. I was learning to use probes because I wanted to go into lowsec and PVP, and I practiced by probing for mission runners in highsec. After finding the first one, I decided to switch to a Punisher fit with salvagers to go back and rob them blind; I was thinking that the competitiveness would sharpen my probing and hunting skills. I might never have done it again, but they unleashed buckets of carebear tears and what can I say? I was an instant addict!
Originally by: VicturusTeSaluto All piracy is built upon honoring one's word.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.26 12:59:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Maggie Magnifico ...what makes their game fun, and what makes it frustrating, and seing your isk/hour drop substantially because some tw** cant be bothered to do the missions for himself is NOT my idea of a fun, fair game.
It's MY idea of fun. It's fun FOR ME. I really don't give a damn if it's fun for you.
Quote: ...the games pace is slow enough as it is, its disgusting that CCP allows other players the ability to leech off of your time investment
Can I haz ur shtuffs?
Quote: ...your bad players that deserve to be punished
Agreed! Best way to do that is War Dec us or hire some mercs. May I suggest Malum Crusis. (<--sp?)
Quote: ... you are ALL scum
This is pure win. Tears fuel our ships and I believe we got a surplus of fuel from this post.
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Dana Su'ul
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.08.26 15:16:00 -
[168]
As a carebear I had my first experience of a ninja salvager last night - tried to ransom me back a mission specific item (some dudes DNA from a Lvl3) for 1m ISK - given the mission was only worth 250k, I'd already received the bounties and didn't mind the standings' loss from quitting the mission I didn't think that it was quite worth it
Interesting profession though - very intriguing; might give it a go myself one of the these days.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.27 13:36:00 -
[169]
It's all about the LOLz.
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Atreus primus
Gallente The Order of Chivalry Nex Eternus
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Posted - 2008.08.27 15:23:00 -
[170]
The greatest attraction off EVE is that it uses the economic "zero sum game" mechanics which ressemble a very competative liberal economic model, with only general and limited laws.
It boils down to: Your gain is someone elses loss. Take for example the stock market. So if its legal, its legal don`t whine about it, but find a way to solve it (and make some ISK on the way) or find other opportunities somewhere else.
If Ninja salvaging becomes a problem the system will find a way to balance itself out. ------------------------------------------------
Damn its dangerous here. Good thing i brought my towel. By the way... how do i get to Lave? |
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.27 17:30:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Dana Su'ul As a carebear I had my first experience of a ninja salvager last night - tried to ransom me back a mission specific item (some dudes DNA from a Lvl3) for 1m ISK
Another solution would be to check the market for the item in question.
Originally by: Dana Su'ul
Interesting profession though - very intriguing; might give it a go myself one of the these days.
We're hiring, when you're interested.
We're Recruiting! |
Ceola Tyn'Vile
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Posted - 2008.08.28 17:48:00 -
[172]
so if a miner jumps into your mission and starts mining the ore should you be able to shoot him too? Salvage belongs to nobody just like ore.
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Ecks Orion
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Posted - 2008.08.28 18:43:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Atreus primus The greatest attraction off EVE is that it uses the economic "zero sum game" mechanics which ressemble a very competative liberal economic model, with only general and limited laws.
It boils down to: Your gain is someone elses loss. Take for example the stock market. So if its legal, its legal don`t whine about it, but find a way to solve it (and make some ISK on the way) or find other opportunities somewhere else.
If Ninja salvaging becomes a problem the system will find a way to balance itself out.
EvE isn't an economic zero-sum. If it were, the money you get from missions would come from another player's wallet and the loot you loot from mission NPCs you kill would come from another player's assets.
Doesn't mean ninja salvaging is a problem tho. Wrecks clearly belong to the first person to start shooting Salvagers at them, as far as CCP is concerned.
Plus, it's funny. ;)
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Kano Sekor
Amarr The Movement
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Posted - 2008.08.29 12:00:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Ceola Tyn'Vile so if a miner jumps into your mission and starts mining the ore should you be able to shoot him too? Salvage belongs to nobody just like ore.
Ninja mining whould be awesome. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.29 13:04:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Kano Sekor Ninja mining whould be awesome.
It's about as awesome as seeing Chuck Norris, in his prime, break through your front door with a spectacular move, and then sit on your couch and drink a glass of milk.
We're Recruiting! |
Targkan
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:06:00 -
[176]
Mission runner here myself.
I have to say, what is the big deal about salvaging the mission anyway. Granted I usually salvage my missions, but its usually a crapshoot if I see any real return.
If someone wants to come in and salvage my mission either while I am running it or even after it, all the better. All I care is getting the bounties and the loot. Salvaging the mission is just icing on the cake.
In fact sometimes it even speeds up the mission if there happens to be too many wrecks. I say all who want in, be my guest :)
Oh and I am a care bear in some respect, but I don't provide tears :)
Whoever gets to the wrecks, wins in my book :)
Fly safe and good on ya professional salvagers !!!!
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:21:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Targkan Fly safe and good on ya professional salvagers !!!!
Appreciated, Targkan.
This man knows what he's talking about.
If I'm not mistaken, he was the one who sent me an EvEMail regarding one of our Members salvaging in his Mission, and instead of complaining about it, he told me about how respectful and professional our Member was.
I appreciate your comments!
We're Recruiting! |
Targkan
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Posted - 2008.08.29 15:44:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Targkan on 29/08/2008 15:46:39 Edited by: Targkan on 29/08/2008 15:45:21 Quick story:
When I first started playing I decided that the quickest way to make some startup cash was to mine. I also read about how you can jet can mine. So the first time I did it I had the unfortunate experience of being can flipped.
I decided to go grab my starter ship (I know start laughing now) and go after the flipper. I guess you can all figure out what happened next. At that point I was on the verge of quitting EVE. But decided to give it another shot.
So in my first level 2 mission I had someone warp in and start ninja salvaging my mission. Not wanting to get screwed again I start firing on each wreck they went after. I soon realized I was just shooting myself in the foot (no pun intended :) ).
Again I got upset and was on the verge of leaving. After spending a few days reading the forums and figuring out what EVE was all about it hit me. EVE was certainly NOT like the carebear games I had been playing.
Things happen in EVE all the time and people figure out new and exciting ways to play the game. That was the turning point for me and I was hooked.
So the first time I met someone from Suddenly Ninjas I welcomed them with open arms and really embraced what they were doing.
From that point on I do not call that action Ninja Salvaging but what it really is. Professional Salvagers. I really think that is a clever way to play and it really does seem exciting.
So to all you people that get upset by someone coming in and "stealing" (lol) your wrecks. Keep in mind that they aren't your wrecks. CCP has even said so. If you really want that salvage, then fit a tractor and salvager on your mission ship and take it slow.
Otherwise, get over it and praise these guys and gals for figuring out a new and unique way of playing the game THEY like to play.
Fly safe :)
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.08.29 18:10:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Targkan Otherwise, get over it and praise these guys and gals for figuring out a new and unique way of playing the game THEY like to play.
I appreciate everything you say, Targkan. It's really a mature way of approaching the game, and many players would be much happier if they could think the way you do.
In fact, I've added your comments to our forums, as I'm sure it will help us to gain more support for what we do.
o7
We're Recruiting! |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.01 06:03:00 -
[180]
YAY! Kahega is a ninja.
/me buys Kahega some sake. =P |
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.01 17:54:00 -
[181]
Guide updated! Check third post on the first page, details how to wtfninja in systems without huge populations and how to be more selective with your targets!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.01 18:17:00 -
[182]
Also, "Ninjasalvaging" renamed to "professional salvaging" to more accurately describe the profession. |
Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 03:14:00 -
[183]
Oh. excuse me. Didn't mean to bump you.
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Joe Starbreaker
Starbreaker Frigateers
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Posted - 2008.09.05 07:32:00 -
[184]
I like the new changes.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 16:58:00 -
[185]
Yeah. I began scanning in Amarr space recently and figured out that the old tactics alone wouldn't work so I began using the directional scanner, probing out missioners that have never known the sweet touch of a Janitor's salvager.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.05 19:23:00 -
[186]
Hmm... I actually prefer the term "Ninja Salvager" over "Professional Salvager". It just seems to conjure up an image that I believe we all subscribe to.
We appear from the darkness, in deadspace, where many Mission Runners never expect us. Our ships fly quickly to salvage the wrecks, sometimes while the Runner is still shooting his targets. Once complete, we disappear as quickly as we came.
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Vengal Seyhan
Sten Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.05 19:46:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Targkan Edited by: Targkan on 29/08/2008 15:46:39 Edited by: Targkan on 29/08/2008 15:45:21 Quick story:
When I first started playing I decided that the quickest way to make some startup cash was to mine. I also read about how you can jet can mine. So the first time I did it I had the unfortunate experience of being can flipped.
I decided to go grab my starter ship (I know start laughing now) and go after the flipper. I guess you can all figure out what happened next. At that point I was on the verge of quitting EVE. But decided to give it another shot.
So in my first level 2 mission I had someone warp in and start ninja salvaging my mission. Not wanting to get screwed again I start firing on each wreck they went after. I soon realized I was just shooting myself in the foot (no pun intended :) ).
Again I got upset and was on the verge of leaving. After spending a few days reading the forums and figuring out what EVE was all about it hit me. EVE was certainly NOT like the carebear games I had been playing.
Things happen in EVE all the time and people figure out new and exciting ways to play the game. That was the turning point for me and I was hooked.
So the first time I met someone from Suddenly Ninjas I welcomed them with open arms and really embraced what they were doing.
From that point on I do not call that action Ninja Salvaging but what it really is. Professional Salvagers. I really think that is a clever way to play and it really does seem exciting.
So to all you people that get upset by someone coming in and "stealing" (lol) your wrecks. Keep in mind that they aren't your wrecks. CCP has even said so. If you really want that salvage, then fit a tractor and salvager on your mission ship and take it slow.
Otherwise, get over it and praise these guys and gals for figuring out a new and unique way of playing the game THEY like to play.
Fly safe :)
LOL - Alt post much?
LOL. Never been ninja-salvaged ever... but then, I only run missions in 0.0 and lowsec, so that'd hardly be a problem.
I've however seen friends ninja loot away from each other doing cooperative missions (one guys fits a tractor, the other guy forgets, and thus gets no loot)... The person without the tractor was not a happy camper at all. I simply don't have it in me to be like that.
In lowsec my bigger problem is getting drop ins from gank squads. Been podded a few times, and also had my rigged and pimped salvage ship ransomed.
Personally I prefer 0.0 because people don't grief as much out there. If you're bored you simply go pick a fight with the first person you see who isn't blue.
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Targkan
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Posted - 2008.09.05 22:32:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Vengal Seyhan
Originally by: Targkan Edited by: Targkan on 29/08/2008 15:46:39 Edited by: Targkan on 29/08/2008 15:45:21 Quick story:
When I first started playing I decided that the quickest way to make some startup cash was to mine. I also read about how you can jet can mine. So the first time I did it I had the unfortunate experience of being can flipped.
I decided to go grab my starter ship (I know start laughing now) and go after the flipper. I guess you can all figure out what happened next. At that point I was on the verge of quitting EVE. But decided to give it another shot.
So in my first level 2 mission I had someone warp in and start ninja salvaging my mission. Not wanting to get screwed again I start firing on each wreck they went after. I soon realized I was just shooting myself in the foot (no pun intended :) ).
Again I got upset and was on the verge of leaving. After spending a few days reading the forums and figuring out what EVE was all about it hit me. EVE was certainly NOT like the carebear games I had been playing.
Things happen in EVE all the time and people figure out new and exciting ways to play the game. That was the turning point for me and I was hooked.
So the first time I met someone from Suddenly Ninjas I welcomed them with open arms and really embraced what they were doing.
From that point on I do not call that action Ninja Salvaging but what it really is. Professional Salvagers. I really think that is a clever way to play and it really does seem exciting.
So to all you people that get upset by someone coming in and "stealing" (lol) your wrecks. Keep in mind that they aren't your wrecks. CCP has even said so. If you really want that salvage, then fit a tractor and salvager on your mission ship and take it slow.
Otherwise, get over it and praise these guys and gals for figuring out a new and unique way of playing the game THEY like to play.
Fly safe :)
LOL - Alt post much?
LOL. Never been ninja-salvaged ever... but then, I only run missions in 0.0 and lowsec, so that'd hardly be a problem.
I've however seen friends ninja loot away from each other doing cooperative missions (one guys fits a tractor, the other guy forgets, and thus gets no loot)... The person without the tractor was not a happy camper at all. I simply don't have it in me to be like that.
In lowsec my bigger problem is getting drop ins from gank squads. Been podded a few times, and also had my rigged and pimped salvage ship ransomed.
Personally I prefer 0.0 because people don't grief as much out there. If you're bored you simply go pick a fight with the first person you see who isn't blue.
Wow I feel special today. 2 months playing Eve and 3 posts ever on the forums and I am already being called an Alt :)
I will take that as a compliment!
Just starting my job as a Mission Janitor ...... I want to do my share of helping out the environment and clearing the trash left behind from all that warring going on.
Sheesh ..
On a side note, CCP has specifically stated that the wrecks the salvagers are working on do not belong to anyone (why else do they not get flagged). Also, it is not considered griefing (if so then why won't people petition it? and win?) Why do people still act the way they do?
Oh well, I guess I have to go back to my main ..... lol
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ZephyrLexx
Caldari Earth Federation Space Forces
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Posted - 2008.09.06 07:15:00 -
[189]
so, salvaging wrecks doesn't flag peopel for you to attack? how come? surely its an obvious thing?
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Dztrgovac
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Posted - 2008.09.06 08:39:00 -
[190]
Edited by: Dztrgovac on 06/09/2008 08:42:28
Originally by: ZephyrLexx so, salvaging wrecks doesn't flag peopel for you to attack? how come? surely its an obvious thing?
Because griefing is the point of the game, devs are pkers of old and support abuse like this?
Considering you spend hours grindning missions, that even with a salvage alt you might have trouble beating ninjas to the wreck, and that in a lot of missions salvage is large portion of the income... And considering I've had encounters with ninjas in backwater systems with average quality L3 agents... Its bad and sad.
And there is nothing to be done about it. CCP said what they said about wreck and salvage ownership.
And would it really help anyone if salvaging other peoples wreck was considered a theft. You would always see ninja return in a PVP ship (with a few friends preferably, so the fight is more "fair") to blow you out of the sky.
But of course, we all know that average mission runner in a non faction T2 fit ship earns at least 30 mill ISK / hour, and that high sec missions are 105% risk free.
Oh, and by the way. There is a simple way to prevent ninja salvagers annoying you. Join a 0.0 player alliance. Enjoy the lag. Enjoy having to obey corp orders that will end up with you suicide dozens fleet fit BSes a month to enemy double and triple DDDS. And that IS the best you can hope for, "elite PVP 0.0 non territory holding alliances" wont accept you in, ever.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.06 10:16:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Dztrgovac But of course, we all know that average mission runner in a non faction T2 fit ship earns at least 30 mill ISK / hour, and that high sec missions are 105% risk free.
QFT.
We're Recruiting! |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.06 16:13:00 -
[192]
Originally by: ZephyrLexx so, salvaging wrecks doesn't flag peopel for you to attack? how come? surely its an obvious thing?
Salvage isn't another form of looting. Salvaging is a miniprofession added, similar to missionrunning, ratting, mining, or exploration. Some people like to create wrecks and then jump to another profession (salvaging) to use them..much like people mine minerals and produce shit with them.
Salvaging is a totally unique profession. People are just ****ed that salvaging isn't as noncompetitive as their other profession, missioning.
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Zos Tarkross
Amarr Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.07 11:33:00 -
[193]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Yeah. I began scanning in Amarr space recently and figured out that the old tactics alone wouldn't work so I began using the directional scanner, probing out missioners that have never known the sweet touch of a Janitor's salvager.
Kahega - these new guide ideas are excellent, as Domain was where I got my start in the janitorial profession.
I've been playing around with the directional scanner as well according to your advice. It adds a new dimension and a bit more intelligence than just dropping probes everywhere. Do you customize your probe drop by type *and* range to where you have pinpointed a missioner? That is, do you do Grav if you find yourself close to a Caldari ship, etc, and then do you alter the range so that you could use pursuit/comb/sifts rather than just quests, if the range is 2 AU or better?
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Halkin
Locus Solus
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Posted - 2008.09.07 12:59:00 -
[194]
Originally by: Tchell Dahhn Hmm... I actually prefer the term "Ninja Salvager" over "Professional Salvager". It just seems to conjure up an image that I believe we all subscribe to.
We appear from the darkness, in deadspace, where many Mission Runners never expect us. Our ships fly quickly to salvage the wrecks, sometimes while the Runner is still shooting his targets. Once complete, we disappear as quickly as we came.
the profesion is valid sure, but i think yuo add a bit too much glamour to it. you basically pick up others peoples left overs.
although i think most of the fun must come from annoying people who you salvage from?
Originally by: Elise Randolph Everybody wins when trolls get trolled.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.07 13:47:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Halkin although i think most of the fun must come from annoying people who you salvage from?
Well, I'll tell you. As the CEO, I've setup a Monthly Carebear Tears Contest, and pay 25M for the pilot who has the best story, and the best local smack or convo. We're not limited on our Forums for posting names and places, so it makes for a fun time, all around.
(Hmm... If I posted the Monthly Winners on our Blog, might that change your mind about the over-glorification of the craft?)
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.08 20:42:00 -
[196]
Quote: That is, do you do Grav if you find yourself close to a Caldari ship, etc, and then do you alter the range so that you could use pursuit/comb/sifts rather than just quests, if the range is 2 AU or better?
I select probe types, but I don't usually bother with micromanaging probe ranges. My scan time's at about 105 so I don't bother, although I've considered doing it.
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Lord Zarcam
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.09.14 18:29:00 -
[197]
Great guide and tips. Been trying a lot of them lately. Found my first anomoly (rogue drones) the other night by using the on-board scanner. But it was empty, but it's a start!
Last night while using the directional scanner I found a large number of wrecks, but no ships. I tried for an hour to find this location without luck. Did the whole bit of aligning with an object and dropping bookmarks along the route. Even narrowed the directional scanner to 15 degree scan and still located the wrecks. But there wasn't anything to align too at this point. What do you do at this point?
I now realize (after re-reading this guide again) that I did not change distances in the scanner, so I have no real idea how far it was away. But I did pinpoint the direction. I did read the part of using the system map and I haven't tried that yet, that's my next step.
Any additional tips for a budding janitor?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.14 19:29:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/09/2008 19:29:15 Read
You need to use a scan probe launcher. Also, updating the original post with info about recon probes
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Jack Wolfslayer
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:05:00 -
[199]
****ing hilarious! ALL OF YOU! we blow up our wrecks for fun to fight lag build up, and keep our areas clean and clear - idiot salvagers find not much beyond being isk-challenged as they sit there realizing that my 8000 m/s ship runs circles round their enfeebled attempts.
Personally, I find it hugely entertaining when salvage thieves come knockin. I guess actually stopping a thief from salvaging one's wrecks can prove problematical at best for newer players, but at the same time, it comes down to how far is the thieve willing to take things in terms of escalation? He or she must ask themselves whether or not their corporation can survive an actively prosecuted war-dec, that might very well result from pushing the wrong persons' buttons. And will their corpmates be pleased to find themselves suddenly targeted and podded? And then there are some who tank extreme enough to withstand the first Concord DPS, just long enuf to complete the podding of a thief, who now loses all that ill-gotten gain to that "just one more wreck". His or her killer intentionally places their ship at risk simply to send a message - Salvage theft will not be tolerated - and certainly not in my corp! Semper Fi - USMC Force Reconnaissance |
ShadowBob
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Posted - 2008.09.14 22:13:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer ****ing hilarious! ALL OF YOU! we blow up our wrecks for fun to fight lag build up, and keep our areas clean and clear - idiot salvagers find not much beyond being isk-challenged as they sit there realizing that my 8000 m/s ship runs circles round their enfeebled attempts.
Personally, I find it hugely entertaining when salvage thieves come knockin. I guess actually stopping a thief from salvaging one's wrecks can prove problematical at best for newer players, but at the same time, it comes down to how far is the thieve willing to take things in terms of escalation? He or she must ask themselves whether or not their corporation can survive an actively prosecuted war-dec, that might very well result from pushing the wrong persons' buttons. And will their corpmates be pleased to find themselves suddenly targeted and podded? And then there are some who tank extreme enough to withstand the first Concord DPS, just long enuf to complete the podding of a thief, who now loses all that ill-gotten gain to that "just one more wreck". His or her killer intentionally places their ship at risk simply to send a message - Salvage theft will not be tolerated - and certainly not in my corp! Semper Fi - USMC Force Reconnaissance
meh... |
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.15 01:08:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer He or she must ask themselves whether or not their corporation can survive an actively prosecuted war-dec, that might very well result from pushing the wrong persons' buttons.
Suddenly Ninjas has 6 active War Dec's last time I looked.
---------------
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.09.15 15:36:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer And will their corpmates be pleased to find themselves suddenly targeted and podded?
It's all part of the game, Jack. Our Members recognize that, and happily put themselves in harms way. If we didn't want to, we'd all be in NPC Corps, where you couldn't touch us with your Alt. (Didn't think we'd notice, eh?)
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer His or her killer intentionally places their ship at risk simply to send a message - Salvage theft will not be tolerated - and certainly not in my corp!
Good for you. Stick to your misunderstood morals. Oh, and for the record, there's no such thing as 'salvage theft'. Those wrecks aren't yours. They belong to the first person on-site, and that's usually us.
We're Recruiting! |
Jack Wolfslayer
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Posted - 2008.09.17 03:10:00 -
[203]
Wrong - the rules do in fact state clearly that the wreck belongs to the person who kills it - otherwise all of eve would share in the bounties if they belonged to anyone. And you dont get to lick the bowl much less grab my wrecks
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Spermcell Giganticus
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Posted - 2008.09.17 08:42:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer Wrong - the rules do in fact state clearly that the wreck belongs to the person who kills it - otherwise all of eve would share in the bounties if they belonged to anyone.
hahahaha
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JoeBear770
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Posted - 2008.09.17 12:32:00 -
[205]
Had a Drake warp in on a level 3 mission I was doing the other day in my Arbi....however I had just finishing looting and salvaging my wrecks so he moved on
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Targkan
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.09.17 18:03:00 -
[206]
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer Wrong - the rules do in fact state clearly that the wreck belongs to the person who kills it - otherwise all of eve would share in the bounties if they belonged to anyone. And you dont get to lick the bowl much less grab my wrecks
Ummmm no...
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Also, this change has nothing to do with salvaging rights themselves as they remain untouched. Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will, no matter if they belong to the same corporation or not and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Many thanks for your understanding,
Best regards, Senior GM Ytterbium EVE Customer Support Team
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Valdore Scrap
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Posted - 2008.09.18 00:49:00 -
[207]
Originally by: Jack Wolfslayer Wrong - the rules do in fact state clearly that the wreck belongs to the person who kills it - otherwise all of eve would share in the bounties if they belonged to anyone. And you dont get to lick the bowl much less grab my wrecks
No. The loot in the "can" that the wreck contains belongs to the player. This point is irrelivent pertaining to salvage. The bounty belongs to the gang that killed the rat. This point is also irrelevent pertaining to salvage. Furthermore, comparing concorde bounty to salvage and extrapolating that everyone should recieve bounty is a poorly thought out comparison (though the words most of us would use is "downright ******ed")
The wreck itself belongs to the NPC corp and is thus free for all. This has been stated by CCP many times. Because the wreck belongs to an NPC corp, this mechanic will not be changed, as NPC's don't whine on the forums.
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Killian Bekker
Caldari Maximum Yarrage
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Posted - 2008.10.23 22:47:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Valdore Scrap Because the wreck belongs to an NPC corp, this mechanic will not be changed, as NPC's don't whine on the forums about people salvaging their wrecks.
Lol
Great guide btw.
Also, Suddenly Ninja, you guys rep is high in our books. |
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.08 22:01:00 -
[209]
Nice guide, pity that whiners have invaded.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.09 05:43:00 -
[210]
Originally by: RedSplat Nice guide, pity that whiners have invaded.
Pity? Are you kidding?
This thread gives potential ninjas a preview of the BAWWWWing they can expect. If anything it encourages more people to pick it up.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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V1kingos
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Posted - 2008.11.19 09:54:00 -
[211]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 01/09/2008 17:50:34 Advanced Probing
... very interesting stuff ...
When Missionrunners Fight Back
Once in awhile a missioner will think they're clever and try to stop you. The following is a partial list of what they do and how I deal with it.
-They pop wrecks. Not too much you can do here, he's hoping you'll leave. Just stay around and force him to pop all the wrecks. You wont make much, but this will **** him off and sometimes he'll just stop and realizing that having the loot is better than having nothing at all. Warping off when they do this just teaches missioners they can get rid of you easily, which is NOT something you want. Ideally, they'll feel it's futile to even try because you wont be leaving either way.
-Has an alt salvaging. Just beat the alt to the good wrecks. Either use your fast salvage ship to get to the good (The large) wrecks fast, or just circle around the guy and ninja the wrecks just before they come into his salvage range. Your ship should be MUCH faster than his.
I'm an idiot ehr sorry I mean I'm a missionrunner. Actually I don't know why so many people imply with their writing that mission runners and miners are carebears or some sort of people who are to nice to be fit for the REAL THING!!! ^^ Must be some sort of pre-industrial age Tarzan shout. Sometimes I love to run missions or mining. Although mining days are very sparse among the year. I usually love to run missions or mine in times there is something I want to thing or listen to some music while having my hands and heads a little bit occupied. Since Missionrunning and Mining is so dull it is sometimes simply the perfect thing. OK, in case you don't understand the last senteces then it is time to read something different than my post. Please don't respond. Don't even try to convince me that gaming is something serious, where I have to be 100% concentrated on. OK, let's come back to the state of the brain a mission runner typically has. Remember it's a dull job. So after a couple of missions his brain is so full of dullness that every attraction - even ones of evil minded people like salvage pirats or high sec suicide gankers - are highly welcome. So here comes the salage pirate and "HEY! That's my salvage!" Even if don't plan to salvage it. But why is this little bastard STEALING my hardly worked for salvage (ok, I don't have a salvager equipped, but this guy can't know that). "OK, although I'm a carebear and I'm too good for the REAL THING, I will allow this awfull manners of yours!" "YOU HERE ME?" OK, I will start to pop the wrecks. COOL man. Even better if the little bugger is staying. I never intended to loot the stuff. So let's wait until the little bugger comes in salvaging range and then POP, hehe. Even better if the guy is not leaving after the first POPs. I meand that's a fun toy to play with. As an alternativ I bring in my ALT I fitted some months ago in order to salvage loot. The bugger flys a nanod destroyer with salvage rigs and Salvage at 5. You know how fast the bugger can salvage? That's even more frustrating. In case my little Salvage bugger is slower than you, well, there is this Large Tachy II canon here on my along with 3 other Large Tachy II cannons. They are so fast and precise with POPPING little cans. It's so - how shall I say - heart refreshing evil that I love it.
So I plee: - Please attract more Salvage-Pirats - Motivate them not to leave after the Carebear missionsrunner pops some wrecks - Tell them to bring in their friends (one salvage pirate is really no challenge, but with let's say 3 of them I probably have to run an faction AB on my Nightmare, Golem, Pala or whatever I'm flying on that day).
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Suga H
Gallente Federal Navy Academy
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Posted - 2008.11.19 13:15:00 -
[212]
I've had two salvage thieves appear in my time missioning. Both around dodixie. Scared one of them off by locking them. The other warped into the next room before I went in to kill the rats, I followed and found a silly thief's wreck.
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.19 14:09:00 -
[213]
Here. Let me edit your post, so that we can understand what you're saying...
Originally by: V1kingos I'm an idiot
QFT.
Originally by: V1kingos Sometimes I love to run missions or mining. Since Missionrunning and Mining is so dull it is sometimes simply the perfect thing.
Umm, yeah. Got it.
Originally by: V1kingos But why is this little bastard STEALING my hardly worked for salvage (ok, I don't have a salvager equipped, but this guy can't know that). OK, I will start to pop the wrecks. COOL man.
You do that... LOL.
Originally by: V1kingos As an alternativ I bring in my ALT I fitted some months ago in order to salvage loot. The bugger flys a nanod destroyer with salvage rigs and Salvage at 5. You know how fast the bugger can salvage? That's even more frustrating.
Destroyers are NOT Salvaging ships. I know how fast that bugger can salvage, and I know I'm faster than he is. Try on my rigged Malediction for size. I'll be the guy salvaging the wrecks from your tractor beams.
Nano'd Destroyer... LMAO.
Originally by: V1kingos In case my little Salvage bugger is slower than you, well, there is this Large Tachy II canon here on my along with 3 other Large Tachy II cannons. They are so fast and precise with POPPING little cans. It's so - how shall I say - heart refreshing evil that I love it.
So, you ARE salvaging, and now you're popping your cans, and losing the salvage you "worked" for. That's funny. I think I'll just stick around your Mission a little longer. It's not costing me anything, and I'm collecting your tears in local while you do it.
Originally by: V1kingos So I plee:
Plea?
Originally by: V1kingos - Please attract more Salvage-Pirats
That's "Ninja Salvager", thank you very much. Get it right.
Originally by: V1kingos - Motivate them not to leave after the Carebear missionsrunner pops some wrecks
Originally by: V1kingos - Tell them to bring in their friends (one salvage pirate is really no challenge, but with let's say 3 of them I probably have to run an faction AB on my Nightmare, Golem, Pala or whatever I'm flying on that day).
You haven't seen me. Trust me - you can't handle one of me, and you certainly won't be handling three (or more) of my Corpmates. Oh, and by the way, I'd like to see what your Nightmare (ooh!), Golem (aah!) OR Paladin (err!) can do against my Inty... ...if you can get in range, or even track it, of course.
I must thank you for the enjoyable post, however. It's been a while since I've read something so... ...unintelligent.
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0rch1d
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.11.19 14:28:00 -
[214]
I enjoy watching missionbears consign to oblivion loot and salvage that is worth millions. We come for the profit but stay for the show.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2008.11.24 20:54:00 -
[215]
I don't understand what the big deal is. This game is set up differently than most MMOs. These are the rules. If you don't want someone else to salvage your mission wrecks, then it's up to YOU to deal with it. You figure out exactly how you combat it and go to it. If you succeed, all that stuff is yours. If you didn't, then it's still a free-for-all.
If I go into low-sec, I do so knowing that I am fair game for hostiles. I've been blown up (and podded) once. Yeah, I made note of those responsible, but I'm not getting irate over it and taking it personally, because it's just how the game works. Same with can flipping. I jetcan mine when I'm solo. So far nobody has stolen my ore, but it might happen. If it does, it does; I made the choice to mine that way.
By the way, I love the guide. I don't ninja salvage, but it certainly has told me how to use recon probes (I already do exploration so I knew about the scan probes) and how to set up a salvage ship. Good hunting to you all! ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Hormah
Gallente
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Posted - 2008.11.27 12:15:00 -
[216]
Look, quite frankly, if you want a totally unchallenging and uncompetitive game, play WoW and quit *****ing about how some guy has taken 50k worth of salvage from a couple wrecks and how it is ruining your gaming experience and how he is the reason people quit the game and he needs to be smited by CCP (since you are obviously not able to do anything about it). Harden the **** up carebears. That is how the game is played, if you don't like it then find a way to fix it and stop expecting someone else to fix it for you.
--------------------------------------------------------------- Don't talk to me about lag, Jesus had to wait three days to respawn
If I win your auction pls eve-mail me |
Pax Scindus
Gallente Caldari Deep Space Ventures Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.29 16:25:00 -
[217]
I really do enjoy the thought of Ninja Salvaging. For some reason, my character already has all the scan probe and salvaging skills I think Id need to start... I guess I trained for some long-forgotten goal, and neglected to follow through. Perhaps its time to try yet another profession! Y'all from Suddenly Ninjas are alright in my book. Pretty sure my new corp wouldnt like me ninja-in', but meh. Happy hunting.
-Pax ----------------------------------------- Pax de magnus vis vires e solum via. Without strength, there can be no peace.
www.romulusforums.com
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.11.29 18:50:00 -
[218]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 29/11/2008 18:51:29
There are some strangely -bad- ninjas out there. I cringe every time I hear of someone ninjaing in a destroyer.
But yeah, a well-fit ninja will easily outsalvage any boat that relies on tractor beams...most of the time. If the ninja does not have high salvage skills, no salvage rigs, in a t1 frig etc...and the missioner is in a marauder with a pimped salvage fit (salvage tackle rigs) then he stands a chance of getting maybe 20-40% of the salvage...maybe.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Narus
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Posted - 2008.12.29 23:54:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Narus on 29/12/2008 23:56:25 lulz
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Jirock
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.31 00:26:00 -
[220]
What i dont understand is this.
mission runners whine that we are taking their money (because they would of salvaged etc after the mission has finished) Now, when it comes to lvl 4's, you can easily spend an hour (okay, maybe not that long, but it feels like it) looting an what not. so lets say you double the mission value by doing this.....
um, how slow are you doing the missions for isk/hour to make it worth it if you are on your own? even when theres a group it can be a slow process.
thats right whining mission runners, you are doing it wrong.
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Michael Woodard
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Posted - 2008.12.31 04:52:00 -
[221]
I have found this thread very entertaining heck it even encouraged me to want to train up my astrometric skills and probes. I also wanted to know what would be a good salvaging ship to use that is gallente if its possible to use one as a salvager.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.31 06:32:00 -
[222]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 31/12/2008 06:32:46
Quote: I have found this thread very entertaining heck it even encouraged me to want to train up my astrometric skills and probes. I also wanted to know what would be a good salvaging ship to use that is gallente if its possible to use one as a salvager.
An Atron would work pretty well. Most of the t1 interceptor frigs are good. I've heard some say that the Incursus is better. It's still just as agile and fast when fitted right, and has 4 highs for salvagers. An interceptor would be even better
Up to you, really. Anything small and fast. Ideally you should be able to permarun an ABII
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Claire Cyrille
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:08:00 -
[223]
i've used my dramiel fitted with an imp cloak 2 and a deadspace afterburner. works well enough and it makes the missioners get madder at me. it makes me lol
i've done quite a good deal of missioning too, been probed out my fair share, sure its irritating, but its not like i salvage the wrecks anyways unless its sansha or angels. let the salvage thieves take the wrecks, it cuts down on lag anyways. less lag = win!
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Claire Cyrille
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:09:00 -
[224]
Edited by: Claire Cyrille on 31/12/2008 14:10:50 jeez. these double/triple posts cause of bad internet are driving me mad
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.12.31 14:26:00 -
[225]
Originally by: Claire Cyrille i've used my dramiel fitted with an imp cloak 2 and a deadspace afterburner. works well enough and it makes the missioners get madder at me. it makes me lol
Have we met?
I've just fit up a nice Dramiel, with dual OD II and a Nano II low, Gistii B-Type 1MN AB and Small Shield Extender II mid, and three Salvager I, one Small Tractor Beam I and one Prototype Cloaking Device I high... ...oh yeah, and don't forget the three Salvage Tackle I rigs.
Nothing beats the "Prestige" Salvage fit, eh? (In fact, we're having a challenge on our Forums right now for who has the 'nicest' Prestige Salvage Ship.)
We're Recruiting! |
Dedalus77
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2008.12.31 15:24:00 -
[226]
Personally I spent my isk on my scan ship, going with a covert ops Buzzard and T2 Cloak so I can scan down missioners without them knowing. Then I return in my cheap as dirt salvager, it's fast enough that I beat most mission runners to the salvage (if they are salvaging) and I can perma-run my AB. If the missioner left any NPCs floating around (which seems to be a new trend) I'm not worried about losing an expensive ship, I think my total build cost is around 40,000 isk excluding the salvage rigs which I make myself.
Perhaps someday when I have enough of a bankroll I'll go with a prestige salvager, but for now I kind of like going with my little tin can.
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Matt Anar
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Posted - 2009.01.01 10:47:00 -
[227]
I thought about using a Buzzard as scanner and salavager. But is it really worth it? It would take me about a month to learn the needed skills.. Can you warp into the mission while cloaked and cloak again between wrecks?
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.01.01 12:54:00 -
[228]
Scanner? Yes, definitely worth it. Salvager? Perhaps. Cargo hold is low, but aside from metal scraps salvage is tiny. You can cloak again in the mission space as long as nothing is within 2000 meters, but there are often structures, rocks, or even gas clouds that prevent you from cloaking. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs
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Posted - 2009.01.01 15:50:00 -
[229]
I wouldn't bother using the Buzzard as a salvager, it's not fast enough nor does it have enough high slots to fit enough salvagers. For your scan ship you want something that gives a bonus to astrometric skills and for your salvager you want the fastest frigate you can get your hands on (which is why some folks now use interceptors).
The other thing about using the Buzzard as a salvager is that it's expensive, as is the T2 cloak you fit it with, so it's kind of risky hanging around a mission with it, especially if there are active NPCs.
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Corporal Fyarr
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Posted - 2009.01.01 16:02:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 31/12/2008 06:32:46
Quote: I have found this thread very entertaining heck it even encouraged me to want to train up my astrometric skills and probes. I also wanted to know what would be a good salvaging ship to use that is gallente if its possible to use one as a salvager.
An Atron would work pretty well. Most of the t1 interceptor frigs are good. I've heard some say that the Incursus is better. It's still just as agile and fast when fitted right, and has 4 highs for salvagers. An interceptor would be even better
Up to you, really. Anything small and fast. Ideally you should be able to permarun an ABII
Hey thanks for the reply this should get me started in the right direction
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sirovai
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Posted - 2009.01.03 11:11:00 -
[231]
So this is where the russians got their info. Thank you for destroying eve.
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Zaldoza
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.03 11:36:00 -
[232]
Had a guy ninja salvaging me after Buzz Kill mission yesterday,he was a little late though since cleared most of the wrecks.Still i didn't mind since that mission generate a s*** load of wrecks...Cant really get mad at those guys,its not like they ruin my mission..
Zaldoc...Miner Zaldoza..Mission Runner
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.03 14:57:00 -
[233]
Originally by: sirovai So this is where the russians got their info. Thank you for destroying eve.
Cry more.
We're Recruiting! |
Noe Saked
Minmatar The Brave 600
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Posted - 2009.01.03 19:56:00 -
[234]
hehe good stuff. Gl with the ninja-ing
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Dred 'Morte
New European Regiment R.U.R.
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Posted - 2009.01.03 23:10:00 -
[235]
Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 03/01/2009 23:10:57 Question: is it not more profitable to ninja salvage in 0.0? Like the old days when you would ninja mine crokite in a Probe near Empire! Seriously, there are plenty of zones of 0.0 where ratters fill entire systems of large wrecks. Of corse, you may be chased by interceptors but that's the whole risk vs reward thing.
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SirMoric
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.04 07:38:00 -
[236]
All that work, why don't you just ask me where I am. I don't salvage myself, and you can have it all, if you want.
See you in space.
Rgds
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Salena Ferrier
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Posted - 2009.01.04 13:41:00 -
[237]
I also don't mind the occasional salvager showing up etc. However, just had one come in and take my Mission Objective which really screwed me up. He can have salvage and loot but why take the objective? Makes me lose standings with Corp which is hard to get in the first place. Don't care about the isk. Starting to lose what little respect I did have for the Ninja salvagers.
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Salena Ferrier
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Posted - 2009.01.04 13:46:00 -
[238]
Did I mention it was a member of Suddenly Ninjas that stole my Mission Objective - 5 corpses - what are they worth?...lol.
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Vienna Gates
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.04 15:48:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Salena Ferrier Did I mention it was a member of Suddenly Ninjas that stole my Mission Objective - 5 corpses - what are they worth?...lol.
I seriously love those guys.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.01.05 07:19:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Salena Ferrier Did I mention it was a member of Suddenly Ninjas that stole my Mission Objective - 5 corpses - what are they worth?...lol.
mighta been one of the newer members- corp veterans rarely do that stuff.
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.01.05 14:46:00 -
[241]
Originally by: Dred 'Morte Edited by: Dred ''Morte on 03/01/2009 23:10:57 Question: is it not more profitable to ninja salvage in 0.0? Like the old days when you would ninja mine crokite in a Probe near Empire! Seriously, there are plenty of zones of 0.0 where ratters fill entire systems of large wrecks. Of corse, you may be chased by interceptors but that's the whole risk vs reward thing.
"Ninja salvaging" really only works in hi-sec. You get blown up if you do it in lo-sec or null-sec. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Strel Samodelkin
Caldari Nationalist Party
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Posted - 2009.01.05 16:53:00 -
[242]
Very good guide! Thumbs up!!!
Caldari Nationalist Party |
Bo'Tox
Amarr Arkor Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.05 23:07:00 -
[243]
Edited by: Bo''Tox on 05/01/2009 23:07:11 Overall a good guide.
But for the time it takes to drop all those probes and scan sites out by going to BM's you could go to systems with High numbers of belts, start taking down the belt rats with drones whilst mining, earn isk from bounties, my mackinaw gets close to a Million isk per ship load from veldspar/trit and then you come back and salvage the wrecks for the extra loot and sell that off. Always get at least one melted capacitor console, alloyed trit bar or similar high isk items from wrecks. And you can salvage the wrecks for other T1 parts or just reprocess them...
Seems with the amount of people complaining on how they search for 5 hours+ for sites and find nothing (they could be doing it wrong, or choosing the wrong times/systems to scan) that its easier salvagig the sites you KNOW are going to be there - your own...
But what the heck do I know - I only make 3 mill isk per hour in high sec from my own wrecks and veldspar mining... I'm happy with it....
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.01.05 23:47:00 -
[244]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 05/01/2009 23:49:06
Quote: But for the time it takes to drop all those probes and scan sites out by going to BM's you could go to systems with High numbers of belts, start taking down the belt rats with drones whilst mining, earn isk from bounties, my mackinaw gets close to a Million isk per ship load from veldspar/trit and then you come back and salvage the wrecks for the extra loot and sell that off. Always get at least one melted capacitor console, alloyed trit bar or similar high isk items from wrecks. And you can salvage the wrecks for other T1 parts or just reprocess them...
Please tell me you're joking. You're going to get precisely **** in salvage from hisec belt rats. Frigate rats are crap. Personally I don't even go out of my way to salvage them in missions. One melted cap console and alloyed trit bar is about 450K/200K respectively. Salvaging a good Sansha mission can net me 20-30+ melted cap consoles plus a bunch of other valuable salvage (Armor plates, etc).
Ninjaing for profit (Targeting high value missions, e.g. sansha/blood/angel) can actually make more money than mining in hisec if you're good at it.
Quote: Seems with the amount of people complaining on how they search for 5 hours+ for sites and find nothing (they could be doing it wrong, or choosing the wrong times/systems to scan) that its easier salvagig the sites you KNOW are going to be there - your own...
You're thinking of exploration sites. Finding a missionrunner in a busy hub is much easier than finding an exploration site...and even the hard sites don't take 5+ hours (or anywhere close to that) for someone with decent skills.
Quote: But what the heck do I know - I only make 3 mill isk per hour in high sec from my own wrecks and veldspar mining...Cool I'm happy with it...
You should be making more than that mining (Ditch the mackinaw for roid mining. Get a hulk). Regardless, ninjaing can make considerably more than that.
Not that it really matters too much. I ninja because it's fun, not because I obsess over which activity will earn me slightly more ISK/Hour
Quote: "Ninja salvaging" really only works in hi-sec. You get blown up if you do it in lo-sec or null-sec.
Wouldn't really be sure of that. A proper salvage craft is fast; you should be able to align and warp well before you can get tackled. If I was going out to 0.0 for salvage I'd be quite careful.
That said, if you're going into low/nullsec..I'd recommend actually going for the remains of player battles. T2 salvage can be one hell of a moneymaker.
Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
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Lei Merdeau
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.06 23:02:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
merde?
Yes?
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.01.07 00:00:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Bo'Tox my mackinaw gets close to a Million isk per ship load from veldspar/trit ...
The Mackinaw is an ice mining skiff. For Veldspar, you would be better off in a Covetor or Hulk. If you're not reaping in excess of 10M isk/hr mining veldspar, you're doing it wrong.
Go read Halada's Mining Guide.
Ninja salvaging is not so much about salvaging as it is about harvesting an intangible which is far more valuable to some people in terms of gameplay.
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Lightningshade
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Posted - 2009.01.10 17:28:00 -
[247]
I know this is just a game and all, and the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting, but there's so many options in Eve on what you can do for enjoyment and satisfaction. You may think it's not the case, but how you get your kicks in-game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life (or at least, what you'd like to be like in real life if there weren't bigger, badder people inclined to show you the error of your ways were you to act that way in real life).
Now, some people choose to be peaceful and carebear and don't really get in anyone's way. Others choose to go live out in 0.0 and shoot at each other, where the challenge is real and any killing/greifing is generally an accepted way of life. Then there's low-sec pirates who, for the most part aren't too bad since after all, they are in low-sec, so if they gank you it's mostly your own fault.
And then there's lowlife losers who do crap like can flipping, suicide-ganking and stealing other peoples salvage knowing full well that there's not much the victim can do about it (for the record I've never been a victim of any of these activities, so sorry, no 'carebear tears' from me (I figured I wasn't being cool unless I included 'carebear tears' in my post since all the cool kids are)). Now I know, these are all well within the rules of the game. I'm not arguing against that. But at the end of the day, you know that there's another person on the other end who you're directly impacting by your lame choice of entertainment and self-gratification. Rather than putting any attempt into actually going out and challenging yourself, you'd rather take the easy route and just pick on the easy targets and then pat yourselves on the back at a job well done.
Each to his own I guess. Some people just aspire to be at the bottom of the barrel since it's so easy to achieve.
Moar tears for the POS's boss |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.01.10 17:47:00 -
[248]
I consider it a reflection of the real world. We have laws, but people still break them when they think they can get away with it. Some of them are very good at walking the line of technicalities that allow them to break the spirit of the law but not the letter. It's one of the things I really like about EVE. Yes, I feel that the people doing this are *******s. Do you know how many *******s there are in real life? |
Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2009.01.10 18:41:00 -
[249]
Here's a free gloat for you sad pandas:
Victim: Sigul Siento Corp: Sebiestor tribe Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Cheetah Damage Taken: 2526
Involved parties:
Name: Toxic Cloud Environment / Unknown (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 2526
This is the second Cheetah I loose to this mission (recon 3/3, a lvl 4 storyline). The cloud is only supposed to hit every 20s according to eve-survival, but the second hit came just a handful of seconds after the first (which I survived). Just about managed to start the warpout, but too late. On a couple of other occasions I've managed to escape before the second hit.
I thought of moving, but many of the other popular systems have storyline agents as well (and I guess you'd need there to be no storyline agents in neighboring systems either to be safe), so any tips on how to avoid this? Any good cov-op setups that could survive 2 blasts?
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.01.10 18:44:00 -
[250]
Recon is a storyline? I got that as a level 2 mission. Yes, it's faster than 20 seconds. I think it's closer to 13-14 second pulses, and they get continually higher damage. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2009.01.10 19:23:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries Recon is a storyline?
Nope Don't know why I thought that, thought it said so when I looked it up.
So my peculation on storyline agents is moot, but still, any other ninjas have any tips or experience on dealing with the toxic cloud in this mission which isn't a storyline mission?
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quickshot89
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.11 00:54:00 -
[252]
Edited by: quickshot89 on 11/01/2009 00:54:04 thanks to this walkthrough i out salvaged a golem doing a lvl 4, i lol'd hard at him and his NPC corp
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PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Gallente aurorae pacificas
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Posted - 2009.01.11 17:20:00 -
[253]
Originally by: Sigul Siento
And stick around if you think you see an irrational/ebay'd missionrunner, that might attack you and get blown up by CONCORD. I've gotten some very nice stuff that way. Also, some missionrunners actually manage to get killed by the mission rats. Keep an eye out for that and you might net yourself both faction mods and T2-salvage.
While I havnt read the other 9 pages of this pretty lame tactic I will add another two lowly tricks that you can use.
1. Lock the mission runner mid mission- you might get lucky with him having auto-target back or having agressive drones attack. If he has reset his warning systems he may auto agress and therefor get concorded.
2. Even if you cant get aggro lock him anyway. If there is a particularly large spawn in the room and he is having trouble tanking it you may get lucky enough that his tank begins to slip- if this happens RAM him, especially if you have a cruiser. You may be able to get him hung up enough on your ship to mean he wont be able to warp out. Loot wreck quickly before you draw aggro from NPCs.
The only thing I hate more in eve than ninja salvaging lameos is mission whoring ones.
At least you guys are "pvping" in some respect.
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Kaya Divine
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.13 16:13:00 -
[254]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
Originally by: Sigul Siento
And stick around if you think you see an irrational/ebay'd missionrunner, that might attack you and get blown up by CONCORD. I've gotten some very nice stuff that way. Also, some missionrunners actually manage to get killed by the mission rats. Keep an eye out for that and you might net yourself both faction mods and T2-salvage.
While I havnt read the other 9 pages of this pretty lame tactic I will add another two lowly tricks that you can use.
1. Lock the mission runner mid mission- you might get lucky with him having auto-target back or having agressive drones attack. If he has reset his warning systems he may auto agress and therefor get concorded.
2. Even if you cant get aggro lock him anyway. If there is a particularly large spawn in the room and he is having trouble tanking it you may get lucky enough that his tank begins to slip- if this happens RAM him, especially if you have a cruiser. You may be able to get him hung up enough on your ship to mean he wont be able to warp out. Loot wreck quickly before you draw aggro from NPCs.
The only thing I hate more in eve than ninja salvaging lameos is mission whoring ones.
At least you guys are "pvping" in some respect.
Very tiny chance that mission runner will have auto targeting on.
Second trick may work, but if he know what he is doing and he intentionaly pops a trigger, and new wave of rats spawn closer to you....guess who will get aggroed and web/scrambled first? And those who need to warpout few times (those who just started lvl 4) for sure will not have faction modules, t1 and maybe some t2 trash... T2 salvage as far as I know is impossible to get from t1 ships like raven, CNR,.... those who are mission running in marauders have sufficient tank to survive not only any mission, but multiple gank BS`s (player controlled) who warped in mission hoping that will get easy marauder killmail. So waiting in mission pocket and praying that Golem pilot will need to warpout before end of mission is like waiting the day when Jita will be desolate...could happend, but unlikely. |
Zaldoza
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.13 17:00:00 -
[255]
Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik
The only thing I hate more in eve than ninja salvaging lameos is mission whoring ones.
At least you guys are "pvping" in some respect.
You forget that allot of those mission whoring as you call them,are actually pvpTrs doing it to fund their pvp life.. |
BigFleb
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.01.20 21:44:00 -
[256]
When I grow up, I wanna be a master ninja like Kahega
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RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.01.20 23:42:00 -
[257]
Edited by: RedSplat on 20/01/2009 23:42:24 For those wishing to get some real hands on experience i cannot recommend enough joining a Corp. like Suddenly Ninjas, Ironfleet or a similar entity. Its like having a personal trainer, but free...and for salvaging. Bad analogy- but we are always happy to help people master the most noble art of salvage, Ninja Salvage and probing.
Oh and Spies are welcome
EDIT: Nice to see the guide doing so well |
Riedle
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Posted - 2009.01.21 15:05:00 -
[258]
Hey
I have been reading this topic and it really intrigued me. I fly in Minmatar space and have a destroyer for salvaging my own mission wrecks, which because of tractor beams is good for salvaging my own wrecks.. Anyways, fitted out a probe last night and finally leanred how to use the san probe launcher and the scan probe. The first time I used it correctly I scanned down a lvl 4 mission and warped to it. The guy was in the Minmatar BS (can't remember the name of it now) anyways, he was still running the mission. I warped back to home base (same system) and got my destroyer salvager and went out and started salvaging. Now, as I only am able to run lvl 2 missions right now, level 4 salvage is a GREAT money-maker for me. Well not only did I make great money, but I got some awesome tears as well. I wish I had saved the conversation. He private messaged me, asked me if I was lost, asked me what I was doing here, asked me to leave to which I agreed AFTER I was done salvaging. Well he flipped out called me names and totally freaked. I went about salvaging and he leaves... Well I am thinking he is going to get a cheap arse ship and pop me and I was a little worried as I do not have the standings for a JC yet, but I kept my eyes open and he never came back! In fact, I went back 50 minutes later after the salvaging was done and all the loot was there so I went back with probe ship and even got to loot the whole mission and for me, a 2 month old character I was rewarded handsomely! I now have all +3 implants finally and tonight I am going to salvage for the last time in my destroyer to same money for a nice Minmater frigate to salvage with..
Any suggestions on a Minmatar T1 Frigate to use for Ninja Salvaging? Anyways, thanks for the tips and the tears. love it! |
Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.01.21 16:34:00 -
[259]
Vigil. Definitely the Vigil. Not only does it have a fast base speed, it gets a 5% speed bonus per level of Minmatar Frigate skill. Adjust your fitting as necessary for capacitor needs. I'm not sure about the total energy storage on it. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
Riedle
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Posted - 2009.01.21 17:57:00 -
[260]
Originally by: Gavin DeVries Vigil. Definitely the Vigil. Not only does it have a fast base speed, it gets a 5% speed bonus per level of Minmatar Frigate skill. Adjust your fitting as necessary for capacitor needs. I'm not sure about the total energy storage on it.
I wil be doing this tonight. Thank you |
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Cyprus Black
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.01.21 18:06:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Riedle
Any suggestions on a Minmatar T1 Frigate to use for Ninja Salvaging? Anyways, thanks for the tips and the tears. love it!
Personally, I like the Minmitar Probe frigate. The bonuses that come with the ship are awesome and well suited for the job at hand.
Sure it can only fit one salvager and one recon probe launcher, but with a few tackles, an AB, a nano, and a cap battery it really is a fast salvaging machine.
Plus when the mission runner leaves for good, you've still got a lot of cargo space to loot the wrecks. |
Riedle
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Posted - 2009.01.21 18:41:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Cyprus Black Edited by: Cyprus Black on 21/01/2009 18:17:06
Originally by: Riedle
Any suggestions on a Minmatar T1 Frigate to use for Ninja Salvaging? Anyways, thanks for the tips and the tears. love it!
Personally, I like the Minmitar Probe frigate. The bonuses that come with the ship are awesome and well suited for the job at hand.
Sure it can only fit one salvager and one recon probe launcher, but with a few tackles, an AB, a nano, and a cap battery it really is a fast salvaging machine. Plus when the mission runner leaves for good, you've still got a lot of cargo space to loot the wrecks.
And for those wondering, I make about 15 to 30 million isk on an average day. Often more at peak times.
Oh, so that is your scanning ship AND salvage ship? How do you fit it out? you use rigs?
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.23 01:20:00 -
[263]
Use a Stabber. Slap 4 salvagers, a tractor (for can towin'), and a cloak. AB, 2 Lrg shield extenders in the mids. Inert stab/nano the lows. Or stick a cargo expander in there if you plan on looting.
Fast, agile, much larger hold for the loot and can take a beating from the mission runners if they try to suicide you and can take rat fire long enough to GTFU if you happened to not notice gaining some aggro.
Salvage frigates are for poo-poo heads.
---------------
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Dia Cliste
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Posted - 2009.01.23 05:01:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Hormah Look, quite frankly, if you want a totally unchallenging and uncompetitive game, play WoW and quit *****ing
Uh isn't salvaging others loot more on the side of unchallenging and uncompetitive? Pretty odd choice of words if you ask me.
I havn't had much trouble with ninja salvagers, nor am I much opposed to it as a way to make money. I do however think that the people who are just in it for "carebear tears" and who get their rocks off by trying to upset people over the internet are pretty pathetic, though I do feel sad for how bad their lives must be if thats what they find as entertainment.
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RoyAraym
Gallente Onorata Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.23 12:10:00 -
[265]
Edited by: RoyAraym on 23/01/2009 12:12:41 Ninja-counter operation:
- buy (and skill) an Ishtar: some time spent on it, 200 m. isk with fitt - fitt drones of choiche: some time spent in skilling them, and buyed in t.2 drones, need time and isk, but works with t.1 also - fitt 2 salvager and 2 tractor: 5 m. isk - fitt a guns (maybe the rookie turret) for aggress npc and get aggro: 0 isk - start a.b. (if you have one), go to 500 m/s (or 220 m/s without an ab), orbit set to 7,5 km (or 5km without an ab), deploy drones, kill, tractor wreck-salvage: funny [repeat until stage clear]
Watch out the amazed ninja when your are in the mid of 4-5-6 BS, multiple med sized cruiser, laughing and salvaging without problems, when your drones go fo the hard job is priceless.......
... for all the rest, there is [RoyAraym Card]
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.01.23 16:33:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Tchell Dahhn on 23/01/2009 16:33:48
Originally by: RoyAraym Ninja-counter operation:
Not bad - it's always been one of the solutions to 'salvage as you go'.
Chances are, however, you won't beat my Salvaging V, implants and rigs... ...and the fact that I'll salvage it right out of your tractor, since I'm sitting on top of you while you kill them.
Still, a very good plan.
We're Recruiting! |
Salliene
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:32:00 -
[267]
Originally by: Lightningshade
I know this is just a game and all, and the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting, but there's so many options in Eve on what you can do for enjoyment and satisfaction. You may think it's not the case, but how you get your kicks in-game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life (or at least, what you'd like to be like in real life if there weren't bigger, badder people inclined to show you the error of your ways were you to act that way in real life).
Some of my other favorite games :
Chess - I do not aspire to be a king, nor a pawn, nor a bishop, nor a queen (though that might be fun sometimes), nor a rook in Real Life. When I capture my opponents pieces, I do it to win the game, not to get his tears.
Parcheesi - I do not aspire to be a malformed plastic token in RL.
Monopoly - I do not aspire to be a race car, a top hat, or a dog who wins a beauty pageant that only pays out a measly $100.
EVE (as you stated) is a game, and therefore the actions in the game cannot be equivocated to real life. I have never wanted to be an assassin, a marine trapped on an alien planet, a Pinata gardener, a spiky haired kid with a sword 2x as big as me, or an incredibly well endowed beach volleyball player who frolics on the beach all day in between martial arts death matches. However I have played all of those roles in games, and somehow am still able to function as a single parent of 2 daughters, a well paid computer professional, and president of my daughters marching band boosters program.
But of course in your mind I somehow do all that IN BETWEEN car jacking and murdering innocent unskilled laborers.
15 years ago or so when Ultima Online came out and was quickly overrun by PKs, I used to think like you. Then I grew up.
One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe |
Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.23 18:58:00 -
[268]
Originally by: Salliene
Originally by: Lightningshade
I know this is just a game and all, and the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting, but there's so many options in Eve on what you can do for enjoyment and satisfaction. You may think it's not the case, but how you get your kicks in-game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life (or at least, what you'd like to be like in real life if there weren't bigger, badder people inclined to show you the error of your ways were you to act that way in real life).
Some of my other favorite games :
Chess - I do not aspire to be a king, nor a pawn, nor a bishop, nor a queen (though that might be fun sometimes), nor a rook in Real Life. When I capture my opponents pieces, I do it to win the game, not to get his tears.
Parcheesi - I do not aspire to be a malformed plastic token in RL.
Monopoly - I do not aspire to be a race car, a top hat, or a dog who wins a beauty pageant that only pays out a measly $100.
EVE (as you stated) is a game, and therefore the actions in the game cannot be equivocated to real life. I have never wanted to be an assassin, a marine trapped on an alien planet, a Pinata gardener, a spiky haired kid with a sword 2x as big as me, or an incredibly well endowed beach volleyball player who frolics on the beach all day in between martial arts death matches. However I have played all of those roles in games, and somehow am still able to function as a single parent of 2 daughters, a well paid computer professional, and president of my daughters marching band boosters program.
But of course in your mind I somehow do all that IN BETWEEN car jacking and murdering innocent unskilled laborers.
15 years ago or so when Ultima Online came out and was quickly overrun by PKs, I used to think like you. Then I grew up.
Your chess, parchesi and monopoly analogies don't work; he wasn't suggesting you wanted to be a mouse or keyboard. Here's the thing... if play style A is fun for player A, and play style B is fun for Player B but impinges on the fun of player A, then the real question is what about play style B makes it fun for Player B? If it is the fact that he's causing carebear tears, then yes that person's real life tendency to be a jackass is showing through in game. If, however, player B enjoys play style B for whatever excitement it brings him independent of what it is doing to player A's enjoyment, then you can't consider him a jackass. Pretty simple stuff. |
Salliene
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.01.23 19:08:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Cade Morrigan
If it is the fact that he's causing carebear tears, then yes that person's real life tendency to be a jackass is showing through in game. If, however, player B enjoys play style B for whatever excitement it brings him independent of what it is doing to player A's enjoyment, then you can't consider him a jackass. Pretty simple stuff.
The whole "carebear tears" meme is as tiresome as rick rolling, Chuck Norris, and "BoB didn't want that system anyway", I wish people would let it die.
However, all this blustering on the forums is just that, blustering. All this carebearing and noobing and taunting and baiting is the same as the taunting in any other sport, any other game. The problem is that you have highly competitive people trying to play with people who just want to hang out and mine and discuss last night's "Lost". So the competitive people come off looking like real jerks sometimes cause they are throwing taunts and jibes at the casual people.
If you really want to get a better idea of how some of these people are in RL, you can often find it on Youtube. Some of the pirate videos and fleet battles include the Teamspeak/Ventrillo conversations of the "bad guys". They certainly don't act the same way on TS that they act on the forums.
I've never been to fanfest for EVE, but I have been for Ultima Online and EQ. The personality of the player never matched the personality of the character they portrayed. Some of the most outgoing people in the game were incredibly shy in RL, but everyone was nice, and no one, not even the most feared PK's on the servers came to the fanfests going around beating up the dungeon crawlers or even being an ass in general.
One Girls Journey through the EVE Universe |
Grendelsbane
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:10:00 -
[270]
Edited by: Grendelsbane on 23/01/2009 21:13:44
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Clueless noobs, rofl. It's not about the money, it's about watching you people get worked up into a sputtering rage because we have more fun ****ing you off than running dumbed-down missions against short-bus NPC's. You could train a monkey to mission, yet you people keep coming back and doing it again, and again, and again....
How you play in-game is, truly, often a reflection of your character in life, certain role-playing sorts of things excepted. In EVE you have the freedom to be a jackass; it's one of the main features of the game. EVE without murder and piracy simply isn't EVE.
We're not talking about people popping your BS and podkilling you, though, we're talking about simple theft of salvage. That's it, yet people get into such an inarticulate rage over the whole matter that it's comical. There are things mission runners can do to prevent or minimize ninja salvaging; most choose not to do so, because they want to maximize personal profit.
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Cartheron Crust
14th Legion
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:35:00 -
[271]
Originally by: Sigul Siento Here's a free gloat for you sad pandas:
Victim: Sigul Siento Corp: Sebiestor tribe Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Cheetah Damage Taken: 2526
Involved parties:
Name: Toxic Cloud Environment / Unknown (laid the final blow) Damage Done: 2526
This is the second Cheetah I loose to this mission (recon 3/3, a lvl 4 storyline). The cloud is only supposed to hit every 20s according to eve-survival, but the second hit came just a handful of seconds after the first (which I survived). Just about managed to start the warpout, but too late. On a couple of other occasions I've managed to escape before the second hit.
I thought of moving, but many of the other popular systems have storyline agents as well (and I guess you'd need there to be no storyline agents in neighboring systems either to be safe), so any tips on how to avoid this? Any good cov-op setups that could survive 2 blasts?
Scan the hit with your directional scanner (it will take you all of a few seconds to align the camera, change the angle and the distance). If there are no wrecks there, there is no point in going there (if you are only after loot/salvage antics), go about your other hits instead. You can check that hit in another minute or so, if you have nothing else to do, to see if there are any wrecks. If not you can safely assume it's a mission like recon or one of the others where you don't actually have to kill anything. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.01.23 21:52:00 -
[272]
Fit a DCII/Shield extenders on your scanship if you can. That would also help.
As for a minmatar ship: I'm personally partial to the Slasher. Slightly slower than the vigil, but a lot more agile. |
BigFleb
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.25 17:02:00 -
[273]
I've been using a stabber as a recon scan/salvage combo, works pretty good for me.
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Val Karan
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Posted - 2009.01.26 02:44:00 -
[274]
cant you fit and run a dcu ii to avoid having your life crushed out of you by toxic clouds?
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Riedle
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Posted - 2009.01.26 17:14:00 -
[275]
Edited by: Riedle on 26/01/2009 17:17:17
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Myranda Lexor
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Posted - 2009.02.10 17:44:00 -
[276]
A LIITLE WORKAROUND FOR N.S.
;) nice thread. yea i know its unlikely when some people do ninja salvaging amd you dont have the rights to kill them. but when ccp dont chaged that you can do nothing. we have a salvager right in fleet so there is nothing they can salvage. a little workaround for people who are angry to some of that ninjas is to take an alt-char to blow them up in high-sec yea CONCORD will come yea you lose your ship, BUT YOU KILL THEM and your fleet getting no aggro.
best regards my alternate
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 17:59:00 -
[277]
If you use a disposable alt, then that's petitionable.
If you mean a real alt, then go ahead...even if I don't warp out in time (then return shortly later to salvage your CONCORDed wreck), then salvage ships are dirt cheap anyway...and I'll be back in 5 mins with a newly fit one to get your wreck AND finish salvaging the mission.
Suicide ganking isn't really a good ninjacounter. The best counter is to start *****ing and whining in local and talk as much smack as possible. We absolutely hate that. |
Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.10 18:03:00 -
[278]
As a newer ninja salvager myself, I must say that I aprove of this thread. However with the new expansion and complete changes to scanning, it should make scanning much more fun. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:21:00 -
[279]
Also, FYI: I will be getting on Sisi with some corpmates to test the new scanning system and see how it relates to the art of the ninja so I can update the guide as needed. Also, potentially adding some advanced ninja techniques pioneered by myself and Suddenly Ninjas members at some point.
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Karrade Krise
Galatic P0RN Starz
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Posted - 2009.02.10 20:39:00 -
[280]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Also, FYI: I will be getting on Sisi with some corpmates to test the new scanning system and see how it relates to the art of the ninja so I can update the guide as needed. Also, potentially adding some advanced ninja techniques pioneered by myself and Suddenly Ninjas members at some point.
I came up with a good idea that works really well...know of only one of person that has thought of this. Not sure if I want to share it with the public. But I'd love to share with Suddenly Ninjas. Look for my Mail later on.
CCP Atlas - The Short Story - "With Quantum Rise, we kind of messed up the performance of the EVE client."
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Circle
Caldari Eat Ship and Die
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Posted - 2009.02.10 22:19:00 -
[281]
Ninja Salvaging = A carebears carebear?!
Roflcopter I love that one.
(stolen from i dont remember who) Testing |
Myranda Lexor
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Posted - 2009.02.11 10:12:00 -
[282]
Its areal ALT of my Account ;) And i have a PvP Char for Low Sec Missioning, but when i do Missions in High Sec and somebody steal i give a d*** s*** what the N.ature S.ekt People like or not ;).
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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.03 20:31:00 -
[283]
"OMG YOU STOLE MY PIXELS! GIVE EM BACK!!!!11!"
----------------------------------- "What can go wrong, will go wrong." |
9axle
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Posted - 2009.03.09 06:18:00 -
[284]
Hmmmm. I learned something here. I never bothered to learn salvage, but I think I will. As far as ninja salvaging, not really my style. Its like the wild, the lion makes the kill, takes what he wants (loot), and the vultures and carrion beetles fight over the scraps. As long as the loot and mission specific stuff go to the missioner, I don't have a problem with them, stay out of my way, leave my stuff alone, and do what you have to do.
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Shamistrudel
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Posted - 2009.03.14 10:58:00 -
[285]
I don't have a huge problem with ninjas stealing salvage, but a few days ago I was running AE in Sasoutikh... I'd just finished the fourth gate when a ninja dropped in. I found he'd stripped the first three gates and THEN he ran gate five, killing the big rat and finishing the mission. Dad nabbit, I wanted to run that again after DT. -- You are currently training Empathy (level IV). Do you want to train Controlled Bursts?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.15 05:10:00 -
[286]
Yarr. Edited the Scanning section. It now contains a link to the EVELOPEDIA page on scanning, as well as a video guide I recorded tonight. The video's not great so I may rerecord it at some point.
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Laedy
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2009.03.15 14:59:00 -
[287]
Heya thanks heaps for updating this. I've been finding this new scanning system pretty challenging for finding ships tbh, but I just watched the video and it's cleared up a lot of things for me. Very clear and straightforward guide. Cheers!
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Khalia Nestune
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Posted - 2009.03.19 11:43:00 -
[288]
This guide is awesome (and the responses here). I started doing some ninja salvage in an Amarr L4 mission hub and made about 20mil profit so far. I'm still fairly new so that's good money for me.
Best fun was when I Drake mission runner targeted me but wouldn't fire, then started shooting the wrecks. I orbited him at 500m until he warped off, most likely in disgust. Good times.
Does Suddenly Ninjas accept anyone? :D
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Dzil
Caldari Apache Research Team
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:20:00 -
[289]
Edited by: Dzil on 19/03/2009 16:21:24 Interesting guide. Question - there's obviously people like me that don't always take time to salvage their missions. In the motsu's and dodixies of the universe, to only advantages I can see you gaining doing it this way are:
1. You enjoy the carebear tears (admit it, you do). 2. You gain valuable practice probing, so that at a later point you can do it outside of empire with darker ambitions in mind.
I would think if your motive was just profit, you'd simply broadcast your services for salvage, skip probing and warp straight to the runner, etc. Besides, you might get to loot it too that way. So why ninja salvage?
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Gavin DeVries
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:15:00 -
[290]
Originally by: Dzil Edited by: Dzil on 19/03/2009 16:21:24 Interesting guide. Question - there's obviously people like me that don't always take time to salvage their missions. In the motsu's and dodixies of the universe, to only advantages I can see you gaining doing it this way are:
1. You enjoy the carebear tears (admit it, you do). 2. You gain valuable practice probing, so that at a later point you can do it outside of empire with darker ambitions in mind.
I would think if your motive was just profit, you'd simply broadcast your services for salvage, skip probing and warp straight to the runner, etc. Besides, you might get to loot it too that way. So why ninja salvage?
Your question is answered by statement #1. They enjoy messing with other people. ______________________________________________________ Isn't it enough to know that I ruined a pony making a gift for you? |
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.19 18:40:00 -
[291]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 19/03/2009 18:41:45
Quote: Does Suddenly Ninjas accept anyone? :D
Yup
Quote: Interesting guide. Question - there's obviously people like me that don't always take time to salvage their missions. In the motsu's and dodixies of the universe, to only advantages I can see you gaining doing it this way are:
1. You enjoy the carebear tears (admit it, you do). 2. You gain valuable practice probing, so that at a later point you can do it outside of empire with darker ambitions in mind.
I would think if your motive was just profit, you'd simply broadcast your services for salvage, skip probing and warp straight to the runner, etc. Besides, you might get to loot it too that way. So why ninja salvage?
Part of it is that I do enjoy the tears. There's something about grown men throwing tempter tantrums that they made slightly fewer spacebucks this hour than they would have normally in a competitive PVP game that amuses me.
Another part of it is that it's fun. It -is- profitable, and a good income source. Yes, missionrunning would be more profitable, but I play videogames to amuse myself, not to grind a second job.
Granted, if you're in it for the profit, I would not recommend Dodixie. Serpentis and Guristas salvage. Eeeeeeww.
With the new probing system, it's considerably easy to make a living ninjaing outside the main hubs. If you need money, going down to minmatar or amarr space can be quite good. Also, if you can fit a decent gankship and/or are willing to risk having to abandon due to MR fire, loot can add a lot to one's income.
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Cade Morrigan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:10:00 -
[292]
Edited by: Cade Morrigan on 19/03/2009 21:10:20
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Another part of it is that it's fun. It -is- profitable, and a good income source. Yes, missionrunning would be more profitable, but I play videogames to amuse myself, not to grind a second job.
He was getting at this point though... wouldn't you get more profit by asking mission runners if you can come loot/salvage rather than just salvage? Or do you also do this and just probe mission runners when you're feeling evil ;) /edit to fix quote |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.19 21:30:00 -
[293]
Quote: He was getting at this point though... wouldn't you get more profit by asking mission runners if you can come loot/salvage rather than just salvage? Or do you also do this and just probe mission runners when you're feeling evil ;)
For one, no. Most loot/salvage themselves, and most of those few that don't wouldn't bother creating a bookmark and giving it to me. For two, having to actually probe them down and see their (Feeble) attempts to fight back is interesting. Having one of them shoot me and then coming back in my gank pest is even better
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.30 20:00:00 -
[294]
Just went through and did some general cleanup and clarification. Clarified ship types, new criteria on selecting a system (As you don't necessarily need a hub post-apocrypha), info on the different types of wrecks, and how to use the d-scanner to your advantage in the new system.
As always, I welcome any suggestions you may have.
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Cukaz Nikanoru
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Posted - 2009.03.31 01:01:00 -
[295]
So this topic is eleventy billion pages long and i didnt read it all, however i did see what Oldin said about wrecks belonging to blah blah and if you want to do something about it move to low sec blah blah... Well if you feel that saying "move to low sec, and then you COULD shoot the people salvaging your wrecks" then why do people get flags for looting said wrecks? Seems a contradiction that if the way to solve the problem of a ninja salvager is to go to an area where you are free to attack them for any reason, and yet not have the same solution for a ninja looter. The looter gets flagged for his transgression, and thus if the wreck truely belongs to no one, why not allow them to loot and salvage at no penalty, and then just say "if you dont like it move to low sec" ?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.31 01:06:00 -
[296]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 31/03/2009 01:05:54 The wreck belongs to no one. The items within, do.
I can't be assed to bring out all of CCP's quotes on the matter. Oh wait, yes I can
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Thanks to Marlenus for keeping many (But by no means all) of the dev responses handy in one link
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.31 01:30:00 -
[297]
I still don't understand the point to ninja salvaging. You go to all that work to get only a small portion of the profit from missions, instead of just running the missions yourself and get the whole shabang? It's almost as bad as cargo traps to pop noobs. There's nothing to gain except a bad reputation.
Good reputations buy you friends. Friends do missions. Hey look, steady supply of wrecks to salvage now!
1. Be nice 2. ???? 3. Profit!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.31 01:40:00 -
[298]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 31/03/2009 01:40:59
Quote: I still don't understand the point to ninja salvaging. You go to all that work to get only a small portion of the profit from missions, instead of just running the missions yourself and get the whole shabang? It's almost as bad as cargo traps to pop noobs. There's nothing to gain except a bad reputation.
You can swoop in, loot/salvage, and get out faster than a missionrunner can clear an entire field. If I'm dedicated, I can make 20 mil/hour usually, so profit's not an issue.
I -could- make more, but that's assuming I want to. I play EVE for fun/hour, not ISK/hour
Quote:
Good reputations buy you friends. Friends do missions. Hey look, steady supply of wrecks to salvage now!
1. Be nice 2. ???? 3. Profit!
Why the hell would I want a bunch of mission grinders as my only friends? Besides, I have a plentiful supply of wrecks...and my corp/I aren't really hated outside a bunch of missiongrinders (+ we ****ed off a PVP corp, but only because one of their members got butthurt when a mission was ninjaed). As a general rule, anyone who would start raging at someone salvaging is not the type of person I want to associate with -anyway-
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.03.31 01:46:00 -
[299]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
You can swoop in, loot/salvage, and get out faster than a missionrunner can clear an entire field. If I'm dedicated, I can make 20 mil/hour usually, so profit's not an issue.
I -could- make more, but that's assuming I want to. I play EVE for fun/hour, not ISK/hour
If you enjoy looting, you can do it faster and for more money by mining. It's practically the same exact thing. Mission runners make 4x what you make, at least, per hour. Ninja salvaging compared to a real profession in EVE is like comparing a fast food worker with a banker.
Hope you enjoy your paper hat.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.31 01:52:00 -
[300]
Quote: If you enjoy looting, you can do it faster and for more money by mining. It's practically the same exact thing. Mission runners make 4x what you make, at least, per hour.
It's not even close to the same thing, and no mission runner makes 4x what I do in an hour. Not that it matters Quote:
Ninja salvaging compared to a real profession in EVE is like comparing a fast food worker with a banker.
And missiongrinding compared to a real profession in EVE is like comparing cutting trees for lumber with playing a videogame.
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Cukaz Nikanoru
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Posted - 2009.03.31 02:18:00 -
[301]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 31/03/2009 01:06:37
The wreck belongs to no one. The items within, do.
I can't be assed to bring CCP's quotes on the matter. Oh wait, yes I can quote]
right i didnt feel like typing out everything he said.
What im saying if the wreck belongs to no one. then why do the items inside the wreck belong to someone? if the broken pieces of a ship i blow up dont belong to me then why are the non-broken pieces belonging to me? I didnt say you were right or wrong... im just saying its inconsistant and being inconsistant is what causes the fuss. If CCP believes that the wreck truely belongs to no one, then the items should also belong to no one, this however is an unpopular opinion, and one that CCP KNOWS will lead to LOTS of greifing. Then if a ninja comes into your carebear space, they should be free to take everything they want loot included, and if you dont like it go to low sec where you can do something about it
OR
Make it so salvaging flags the person just like looting does. This of which i think would solve alot of the whining, and actualy wouldnt change all that much as most "mission fit" ships wont be able to lockdown someone coming to salvage their stuff, and thus u could just run away
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Cukaz Nikanoru
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Posted - 2009.03.31 02:24:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 19/03/2009 18:41:45
Quote: Does Suddenly Ninjas accept anyone? :D
Quote:
Part of it is that I do enjoy the tears. There's something about grown men throwing tempter tantrums that they made slightly fewer spacebucks this hour than they would have normally in a competitive PVP game that amuses me.
However right here you are COMPLETELY wrong. The thing those carebears are crying about is this is NOT a competitive PVP game. (the game itself is so do NOT missquote me here) However you are deliberately salvaging wrecks in an area where they cannot retaliate SPECIFICALY because they can not retaliate. So while it is a competitive PVP GAME, this is a situation in where you do what you do SPECIFICALY because they have no ability to retaliate
(and again i dont support no critisize this action, simply want CCP to adjust the game mechanics so that its fair to both sides, the ninja can still get their loot, but not in a risk free maner)
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.03.31 02:26:00 -
[303]
Quote:
However right here you are COMPLETELY wrong. The thing those carebears are crying about is this is NOT a competitive PVP game. (the game itself is so do NOT missquote me here) However you are deliberately salvaging wrecks in an area where they cannot retaliate SPECIFICALY because they can not retaliate. So while it is a competitive PVP GAME, this is a situation in where you do what you do SPECIFICALY because they have no ability to retaliate
(and again i dont support no critisize this action, simply want CCP to adjust the game mechanics so that its fair to both sides, the ninja can still get their loot, but not in a risk free maner)
Then they can move to lowsec where they CAN shoot salvagers.
As far as risk v reward- if missionrunners have such an easy, brainless income source, why the hell should ninjas put their ships at risk? They already do (moreso than MRs) given that they have no tank and can die in seconds.
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puppetmaster
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Posted - 2009.03.31 05:47:00 -
[304]
well, every society needs someone to clean up the streets, so no problem here with these people.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.01 02:29:00 -
[305]
Originally by: puppetmaster well, every society needs someone to clean up the streets, so no problem here with these people.
We can't all be heroic spaceship pilots that bravely fight off the deadly pirate fleets, risking life and limb for the good of podpilots everywhere
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puppetmaster
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Posted - 2009.04.01 09:32:00 -
[306]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: puppetmaster well, every society needs someone to clean up the streets, so no problem here with these people.
We can't all be heroic spaceship pilots that bravely fight off the deadly pirate fleets, risking life and limb for the good of podpilots everywhere
At least you know where your place is
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Mar'pak
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:12:00 -
[307]
I can see ninja salvaging being good income for new characters but it seems kinda sad if you've been playing more than 2 months. You're making bugger all (yes you are), so you can only be doing it to **** people off.
Then again running level4's for weeks/months on end is kinda sad as well.
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:27:00 -
[308]
Ah, it is good to see after a long absence that this is still a topic that brings out the judgemental yahoos.
1) Some players do actually genuinely enjoy playing the role of "space rat" and cleaning up after others. Having the sense of a character who exists on the fringes of society, living on the trash that others leave behind. There are some (albeit very few) who get a huge enjoyment from RPing this and live in the fringe systems, where there are fewer mission runners, but it fits better with the "outcast mileu."
2) Some just want a profit and enjoy making a profit this way. If you're salvaging missions in a busy hi-sec system like Dodixie, it is a bit like mining veldspar. To pick out a mission DS in a busy system is only marginally harder than warping to a veld belt and more profitable.
3) There are some who want to make ISKies while deriving pleasure from the misery of others. Salavging isn't the only profession that does this, there are plenty of others and despite the whining here, it isn't possible to always fight back against the other predators in EvE.
Ultimately there is no point in getting annoyed by someone salvaging your mission space. Ignore them if they're actively taunting you (as you should with any attempt at smack talk) and if they're not, then continue to ignore or perhaps strike up a friendly banter? If the mission is one where the majority if your income is likely to be from salvage and you don't want to waste time completing the mission for little reward, just warp away and cancel it if you either won't get a standings hit or can live with the small standing loss.
This shouldn't be a big deal for anyone. If people didn't QQ about having their salvage taken, the number of folk salavging would seriously drop off as they wouldn't get the carebear tears they find so nourishing.
Also, don't delude yourself into thinking that salvaging is a lesser profession than mission running or vice versa. I've yet to see a single "profession" in EvE, that is categorically more "worthy" than any other.
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Stealnutz
Amarr Mean Angry Squirrels
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:49:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Mar'pak ...You're making bugger all (yes you are), so you can only be doing it to **** people off...
Sigh... How is 15 odd mill (if not more) an hour bugger all? And, more to the point, does it really matter to you that to some people isk/hour is not the primary reason to play EvE? Do you look down equally on miners/pvpers/indies too? |
Joz Yavavich
Gallente Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.04.01 11:57:00 -
[310]
Nice guide. I have worked both sides of this scenario. This is how I stop ninjas. I use the salvager alt , but also if a ninja warps in, I just stop killing. I can tank any l4 all day long, as I am sure alot of other MR's can. Sure Im not making money, but neither is the ninja, and figuring the salvage I would have lost, the isk per hour is about the same. |
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.01 12:19:00 -
[311]
Edited by: Sendraks on 01/04/2009 12:19:41
Originally by: Joz Yavavich I just stop killing. I can tank any l4 all day long, as I am sure alot of other MR's can.
Sometimes they get bored of waiting and come back with their own PvE vessel. Generally this will only happen if someone is truly seeking those oh so nourishing carebear tears.
The best way is to just avoid the busier systems. The vaaaast majority of salvagers are only after a quick buck and the enjoyment of seeing priceless QQ in local. Quieter systems, where there are less DS to probe down, you're more likely to find someone salvaging in a more "professional" way.
Lazy salvagers prey on lazy mission runners. The former are dependant on the latter being lazy to be lazy themselves. The latter are just too lazy to realise they can make profit elsewhere with less hassle. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.01 17:46:00 -
[312]
Originally by: Joz Yavavich Nice guide. I have worked both sides of this scenario. This is how I stop ninjas. I use the salvager alt , but also if a ninja warps in, I just stop killing. I can tank any l4 all day long, as I am sure alot of other MR's can. Sure Im not making money, but neither is the ninja, and figuring the salvage I would have lost, the isk per hour is about the same.
I've yet to meet a missionrunner who could outsalvage me. All tractor beams do is bring the loot/salvage to me. Even with Salvaging III and a slasher I was able to beat the dessie altsalvagaers. When you get into the realm of Salvage tackle rigs, Salvager IIs...it's just no contest. I can orbit around and get my salvagers on it before you can.
That said, it may work on some...but not those who have proper fittings/tactics.
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False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.01 20:05:00 -
[313]
So. You want tears. That makes you bully. Congrats.
To bullies, this how we know you r teen boy. pale, friendless, virgin cyber bullies. only b00b u touch is own man b00b.
To person talk about single parent, two daughter: do you want kids be bully? How you like they get bully online? OK with you? Maybe be bully why you single?
Poster who say shows what you like RL is right. Why u like being bully? Is fun for you? You bully in RL? If u have any b@lls, you r. You not bully in RL? U punk who hide behind keyboard. U all talk tuff but if u have real skillz, why u vulture? Go kill big bad PVP mans. O. U cant cause u punk.
No like ninja? write down name. add to list. give list to mercs. mercs kill punks. i wait 2 week so u forget who u rob. work ok. right J.F.? hope u like gank 7 day in row. Yes. I'm an Alt. You're pretty friggin' smart. |
Lady Jasnowidz
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Posted - 2009.04.01 21:53:00 -
[314]
Originally by: False Face So. You want tears. That makes you bully. Congrats.
To bullies, this how we know you r teen boy. pale, friendless, virgin cyber bullies. only b00b u touch is own man b00b.
To person talk about single parent, two daughter: do you want kids be bully? How you like they get bully online? OK with you? Maybe be bully why you single?
Poster who say shows what you like RL is right. Why u like being bully? Is fun for you? You bully in RL? If u have any b@lls, you r. You not bully in RL? U punk who hide behind keyboard. U all talk tuff but if u have real skillz, why u vulture? Go kill big bad PVP mans. O. U cant cause u punk.
No like ninja? write down name. add to list. give list to mercs. mercs kill punks. i wait 2 week so u forget who u rob. work ok. right J.F.? hope u like gank 7 day in row.
First time I ever wanted to type "Gif Gold Item plz!"
Only ninja salvaged a mission once, when I was testing out my combat probes :P
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Union Employee
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Posted - 2009.04.01 22:00:00 -
[315]
Originally by: False Face So. You want tears. That makes you bully. Congrats.
To bullies, this how we know you r teen boy. pale, friendless, virgin cyber bullies. only b00b u touch is own man b00b.
To person talk about single parent, two daughter: do you want kids be bully? How you like they get bully online? OK with you? Maybe be bully why you single?
Poster who say shows what you like RL is right. Why u like being bully? Is fun for you? You bully in RL? If u have any b@lls, you r. You not bully in RL? U punk who hide behind keyboard. U all talk tuff but if u have real skillz, why u vulture? Go kill big bad PVP mans. O. U cant cause u punk.
No like ninja? write down name. add to list. give list to mercs. mercs kill punks. i wait 2 week so u forget who u rob. work ok. right J.F.? hope u like gank 7 day in row.
Now this here is how you e-rage.
I have taken up ninja salvaging and I am loving it. It's actually quite satisfying to salvage something right out of someone's tractor beam.
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Wynn Ciari
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Posted - 2009.04.02 04:06:00 -
[316]
Greetings all. In the spirit of this thread, I'm going to hijack it and attempt to turn it into something that will annoy and hinder the OP . First off, salvaging someone else's wrecks out from under them is stealing. That much is obvious. How is it that looting a wreck is stealing, but salvaging it and taking everything isn't? You are undercutting someone else's work, taking something they fought and risked their necks for, and you aren't asking. Even kindergartners should know this part. That said, I have nothing against stealing in and of itself. It's part of the game and I welcome it along with piracy, extortion and all the other goodies of a truly open universe. What annoys me, and many others here is the fact that the OP seems to be too much of a ***** to do it out in low sec, where he might actually have to have some balls. Then you have the gall to call other people "care bears" when by your own admission you're doing this in high sec. Try that horse **** out in low sec and then you can call others names, otherwise your just a punk hiding behind game mechanics and Concord. On top of that, you're obviously doing it just to be a jerk. If you don't believe me, then why did the OP state that " the sweet sound of missionrunners' whining " was a benefit on line two of his first post? Playing the game is one thing, stealing is one thing, but this kind of juvenile crap belongs in eighth grade. Well, how to deal with it. I have two solutions, and here they are. The first is that when I'm being ninja'd, to simply cut off the food supply. I won't whine (that encourages them,) I'll simply start shooting wrecks, let the ninja know I won't stop and keep shooting until he leaves. He'll get a few I'm sure, but the rest will simply be lost. Alternatively, I can simply leave. The OP suggested both of these things in his original post, then goes to suggest how to deal with it. Well, his tactics are weak, he knows it, and he's trying to discourage people from countering because he's a chicken ****. It's counter ******* tactics I realize, but others seem to consider this a zero sum game, and after a few minutes most of the *****s will simply leave. Even if you don't I have no problem at all, my missiles are faster than your afterburner and I've got plenty of em. I may not make any money off of it, but I'll at least get the satisfaction that I've wasted as much of your time as you've wasted of mine. Not to mention that I know that at least a few of you will be stupid (or clumsy) try something more aggressive, and then the next wreck you'll be salvaging will be your own. I encourage others to do this as well. The more common scorched earth is, the easier the problem will be. My second solution? Bumping. I'll bump this thread often, and encourage others to do so. I'll also be posting this to other forums, (complete with a link to this thread) and bumping those to. I want to encourage others to deny the ninjas their prizes and shoot their wrecks. The more it happens the more of you *****s might actually go looking for real jobs and not just irritating the rest of us. I also want to encourage other would be ninjas out there to take up this profession. The more of you out there, the more of you to go bumping into each other and the less you will have to gain. Honestly Kahega, if it's such a great idea, shouldn't you have kept it to yourself? If it becomes enough of a problem, CCP might take an interest and change the game mechanic. It would only take a few lines of code, then it's open season. Well, there are my two cents, I encourage all of you to bump and flame and do whatever you like. Just remember, better to fight then to surrender, especially being that you're only up against a cabal of basement virgins.
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Angelos
Gateway Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.02 04:15:00 -
[317]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
I've yet to meet a missionrunner who could outsalvage me. All tractor beams do is bring the loot/salvage to me. Even with Salvaging III and a slasher I was able to beat the dessie altsalvagaers. When you get into the realm of Salvage tackle rigs, Salvager IIs...it's just no contest. I can orbit around and get my salvagers on it before you can.
You can't outsalvage me. As soon as the ship pops I tractor the wreck. Most wrecks salvaged before the last rat pops. I don't even fire my guns, that's what the drones are for.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.02 04:53:00 -
[318]
Quote: Greetings all. In the spirit of this thread, I'm going to hijack it and attempt to turn it into something that will annoy and hinder the OP.
You know, it's funny. Every time someone bumps this thread to the first page, it seems like my corp gets an influx of new recruits wanting to be ninjas.
The irony is...epic, really. A little history: A little more than one year ago, I read a forumpost that changed my EVE life forever. It was a missionrunner, whining on the forums about a ninjasalvager. At this point, ninjaing was unheard of. Because of the whines, I got the idea. I tried it, experimented with stuff, and posted my findings in this guide. I'd just like to point out that the more you *****, the more exposure ninjasalvaging gets.
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Ebolak
Vengeance Asset Relocation Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.02 05:47:00 -
[319]
Originally by: False Face So. You want tears. That makes you bully. Congrats.
To bullies, this how we know you r teen boy. pale, friendless, virgin cyber bullies. only b00b u touch is own man b00b.
To person talk about single parent, two daughter: do you want kids be bully? How you like they get bully online? OK with you? Maybe be bully why you single?
Poster who say shows what you like RL is right. Why u like being bully? Is fun for you? You bully in RL? If u have any b@lls, you r. You not bully in RL? U punk who hide behind keyboard. U all talk tuff but if u have real skillz, why u vulture? Go kill big bad PVP mans. O. U cant cause u punk.
No like ninja? write down name. add to list. give list to mercs. mercs kill punks. i wait 2 week so u forget who u rob. work ok. right J.F.? hope u like gank 7 day in row.
Did I just read the worlds longest fortune cookie, and does it come with happy ending?
So the way you deal with a bully is by being a bigger bully? It seems sir, that you will be touching the biggest man boob.
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Union Employee
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Posted - 2009.04.02 06:34:00 -
[320]
Originally by: Angelos
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
I've yet to meet a missionrunner who could outsalvage me. All tractor beams do is bring the loot/salvage to me. Even with Salvaging III and a slasher I was able to beat the dessie altsalvagaers. When you get into the realm of Salvage tackle rigs, Salvager IIs...it's just no contest. I can orbit around and get my salvagers on it before you can.
You can't outsalvage me. As soon as the ship pops I tractor the wreck. Most wrecks salvaged before the last rat pops. I don't even fire my guns, that's what the drones are for.
Thing is, while you're tractoring it in, I'm salvaging it because I was orbiting the BS before you popped it ^_^
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Khalia Nestune
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.02 06:55:00 -
[321]
Edited by: Khalia Nestune on 02/04/2009 06:55:33
Originally by: Angelos
Thing is, while you're tractoring it in, I'm salvaging it because I was orbiting the BS before you popped it ^_^
Heh, I do that too. Then it's funny to watch them keep switching targets. Eventually they have take out the large targets, so it always works in the end.
Sometimes people try to warp out to force agro. Having a ship with a sub-2-second warp time makes that kind of pointless. Or I just speed tank around while salvaging.
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Mar'pak
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Posted - 2009.04.02 11:09:00 -
[322]
Edited by: Mar''pak on 02/04/2009 11:11:19
Originally by: Stealnutz
Do you look down equally on miners/*snip*/indies too?
yes
------
15m/hr is bugger all if your motivation is making money, hence the **** people off part.
I also find it funny how the ninja salvagers talk about 'carebear tears' when they are bigger carebears than the mission runners.
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Stealnutz
Amarr Mean Angry Squirrels
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Posted - 2009.04.02 12:00:00 -
[323]
They are called carebear tears because missionrunners endlessly cry about it on the forums. These mission runners stay in hisec, and are more than likely alts out to make easy cash.
Salvage is a resource - not a mission reward. Honestly, once this idea is accepted the butthurt will fade like a hangover does when confronted by more beer.
This idea of it annoying people? Huh? being ganked in hisec/losec/whereversec is annoying. Being undercut buy 0.1 isk is annoying, loosing your ship in pvp is pretty damn annoying. I imagine having your alliance name stolen is annoying. Got your pos owned? - annoying i guess.. Not being able to compete with other miners with fleets of roid suckers? - annoying. There are simple strategies to avoid getting ninjafied - the thing is so few people do/can be bothered - that is why we are all soaked in tears
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.02 12:19:00 -
[324]
The tears found here are sweet!
As the whiners so often whine they cannot do anything to the ninjas while they are doing their thing allow me to re-itterate;
If it is me who comes into your deadspace you have that opportunity. I loot every lootable wreck whether you are there or not. Everytime.
Only had MRs shoot at me three times out of the countless number of missions I've invaded. I returned and popped the ships of two of them. The third was in WH space, yes I ninja salvage/loot in WH space with you 'plex runners' present. The whines/frustration there are extra sweet as since there is no bounties the only profit for the risk, time and trouble for you WH plex runners is the loot and salvage. I take that and you did all that tanking/spanking/ ammo wasting for naught and I fly away with all your "truely hard earned" profits. HA! Yes the plex-ers always shoot at me but it is extremely easy to tank your BS's and BC's and make off with all your goodies.
Point is, I and many other Suddenly Ninjas consistantly loot the wrecks giving you ample opportunity to 'fight back'.
And if you stop shooting and just sit there tanking, I will get bored and return in my own ship and get to popping the rats. Ninja bounties will just add more ISK to my wallet, when I'm done with the rats I'll return to clean up.
"This thread has been bumped as requested by the longest winded whiner here and it will aid in the recruitment of more Suddenly Ninjas thus increasing the numbers of these delicious tear filled whines."
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Ana Vyr
DB - LJ Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.02 14:58:00 -
[325]
They locked the anti ninja salvage topic.
Personally, I dislike having my wrecks salvaged because I want to salvage the stuff myself because of its value often being more than the mission rewards. So, in essence, the ninja salvagers are wasting my time.
It's not that big a deal to me though, honestly. I am not going to gimp myself trying to salvage in my mission BS (less mobility, not enough salvager modules, so a big time sink there), or buy another account just to stop ninjas though. I just think it's discourteous to have somebody just barge in and take the salvage that I wanted. I know, I know, welcome to EvE.
Some salvagers will ask nicely and convo me sometimes which tends to offset my distaste for what they are doing. The folks who are just looking for carebear tears though are just sadistic sociopaths as far as I'm concerned. If they bait me, I just leave, typically. These are the graveyard campers of EvE. Pathetic. I guess I'll just never understand why people want to spend their time angering other people.
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Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.04.02 15:58:00 -
[326]
Interesting topic to read. The constant stream of arguements from people who don't like it that people have the ability to be a little bit devious are truely pathetic. CCP made it so people could do this. Don't like it? Sorry, petition CCP about it. CCP doesn't care? Go play WoW about it, where everyone is safe and sound from other players, where you never have to risk your assets in any meaningful way. This is EvE, you are never safe, any property of yours that leaves the confines of the docking area isn't safe, anything that CCP says doesn't belong to you, doesn't belong to you (i.e. salvage). It isn't yours, it doesn't matter if you worked for hours killing those rats, its not yours until its inside your cargohold. So stop crying over something that isn't yours.
Thank you OP, I now view ninja salvaging as a legitimate business thanks to reading this topic. I was going to put off training scanning skills, but I think I'm adding those to my list of skill-to-train and moving them to the top of the list.
P.S. - The arguement that people who do mean things in video games are mean things in real life is specious and extremely thin. While it may be true for some people, I know that it isn't true for the vast majority of them. (I do mean things in this game, people ive met do mean things in this game but after getting to know them, all of us realize that this is just a game). Cry all you want that we're pathetic and live off killing and making life miserable for other people in game. The very same game mechanics are availavle to you and 90% of the time if youre smart nothing will happen to you.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.02 16:02:00 -
[327]
Hey, Wynn Ciari, where do you mission? My alt needs to practice scanning ships.
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Ana Vyr
DB - LJ Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.02 16:30:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Ice Fist P.S. - The arguement that people who do mean things in video games are mean things in real life is specious and extremely thin. While it may be true for some people, I know that it isn't true for the vast majority of them. (I do mean things in this game, people ive met do mean things in this game but after getting to know them, all of us realize that this is just a game). Cry all you want that we're pathetic and live off killing and making life miserable for other people in game. The very same game mechanics are availavle to you and 90% of the time if youre smart nothing will happen to you.
I should have made myself clearer. I meant sociopathic in game, not out of game. I have no desire to be the mouse in any one's in-game cat and mouse game. Sure those mechanics are avialable to me, but I just don't get off in-game collecting player tears or bullying because it makes me feel bad about myself...which is a very big weakness in MMO's. Some folks can set their empathy aside though, and they make EvE challenging and dangerous.
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.02 16:45:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Ice Fist its not yours until its inside your cargohold.
To be strictly accurate, it is only truly yours once it is in your hangar. Items in your ships cargo bay are only yours as long as you can keep them there.
If mission runners are not prepared to take steps to mitigate the risks of losing salvage (and most are not), then they will continue to lose it to those salvagers who make the effort (variable effort, but still effort) to probe them down.
Originally by: Ice Fist P.S. - The arguement that people who do mean things in video games are mean things in real life is specious and extremely thin.
Quite the opposite really. You can tell a lot about who a person is deep down, when there are no real repercussions for their actions (i.e in a game).
Originally by: Ice Fist (I do mean things in this game, people ive met do mean things in this game but after getting to know them, all of us realize that this is just a game).
Now this is an extremely thin argument. Meeting up with a group of people who all share similar modes of behaviour and getting on with them all does not mean that you're nice or good or kind people. You're like minded, so there is a strong likelihood you'll get on with each other.
The argument that it is "just a game" as an excuse for not considering the feelings of others, is about as thin an argument as it gets tbh.
This should not be interpreted as a view that salvagers by default = bad/mean people. This is purely a view on your stance that "intentionally annoying others in a computer game does not make me a bad person" argument.
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Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.04.02 17:34:00 -
[330]
Sorry, maybe I'm not as inciteful as most people when it comes to this stuff, but I think its a load of garbage that you can look at my actions in game and judge me accordingly. You really can't, you don't have any idea how I am, how resonsible I am, how outgoing I am. How I play this game doesn't even come close to reflecting my personality as a person. All you have is speculation.
To be honest, a vast majority of the time people who make that arguement are attempting to restore some sense of superiority when they get scammed or stolen from in EVE. They just got made a fool out of, how better to change that fact than by telling the guy who just stole from you that hes a thief and a sociopath in real life. It's a joke.
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Dzil
Caldari Elamous Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.02 19:10:00 -
[331]
Originally by: Ice Fist Sorry, maybe I'm not as inciteful as most people when it comes to this stuff, but I think its a load of garbage that you can look at my actions in game and judge me accordingly. You really can't, you don't have any idea how I am, how resonsible I am, how outgoing I am. How I play this game doesn't even come close to reflecting my personality as a person. All you have is speculation.
All judgements are just speculation. That said, it's kinda funny to watch people get self righteous on the internet.
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Eldern Minderhost
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Posted - 2009.04.03 02:56:00 -
[332]
Edited by: Eldern Minderhost on 03/04/2009 02:57:44 I ninja salvage and can flip because it's a way to make ISK with way more entertainment than missioning, mining, or low/nullsec pvp.
I will steal your loot and smash you to dust when you shoot back, smiling the entire time.
However, surprisingly few people take immense offense to my actions because I make sure to keep one thing clear: it's not personal, I do it for the fun. If they manage to beat me I congratulate them, if they bring a 5 man gang against me I will fly into the fray cackling as burn.
Low sec is too blobbed and hunting ratters in nullsec is no better than hunting missioners in highsec.
The best place for me as a solo pilot, who never flies with any wingmen, is in highsec where I can control the engagements.
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Millimage
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.04.03 08:09:00 -
[333]
Originally by: Eldern Minderhost
I will steal your loot and smash you to dust when you shoot back, smiling the entire time.
This I find perfectly acceptable. It's what I'd expect in Eve. It's fun and keeps things interesting for everyone.
What I have problems with is the fact that ninja salvaging doesn't bear any risk. If the victim could choose to attack the ninja then it would be perfectly okay.
Maybe the the wrecks could have a temporary owner tag; if they are not salvaged within a few minutes they become free for all.
This way the ninjas could still take them if they wanted to æextract carebear tearsÆ, only theyÆd have to come prepared for some pew pew. The mission runners could have a say in the matter if they so choose.
And if noone salvaged it within the time limit it would become up for grabs for those claiming just to be roleplaying space cleaners.
Everyone should be happy. Only I expect you ninjas wouldn't be. Wonder why...
Originally by: Eldern Minderhost
Low sec is too blobbed and hunting ratters in nullsec is no better than hunting missioners in highsec.
Agreed. Low sec blobs are a pain for the solo player. It's a risk to go to low sec. Just like everything in Eve should be. |
Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 09:53:00 -
[334]
Edited by: Sendraks on 03/04/2009 09:54:59
Originally by: Ice Fist Sorry, maybe I'm not as inciteful as most people when it comes to this stuff, but I think its a load of garbage that you can look at my actions in game and judge me accordingly. You really can't,
You can only judge a person on their actions to which you are exposed. That is all anyone can do.
Basically what you're saying is "I like tormenting people in a computer game, but am a nice person really" which looks pretty darn facile doesn't it?
Originally by: Ice Fist you don't have any idea how I am, how resonsible I am, how outgoing I am. How I play this game doesn't even come close to reflecting my personality as a person.
Actually it is all broadly irrelevant. Outside of game you could be the sort of person who helps old ladies cross roads, rescues lost pets, recycles diligently and is patient and kind to those around them. However, there is STILL part of your psyche that delights in causing others misery, but you only indulge that when there are no real consequences.
Originally by: Ice Fist To be honest, a vast majority of the time people who make that arguement are attempting to restore some sense of superiority when they get scammed or stolen from in EVE.
This isn't one of those "vast majority of the times" I'm afraid. I've had neither happen to me in EvE, nor am I concerned about salvagers. I'm merely making observations about those seeking to excuse their behaviour in game, by impossibly detaching it from who they are.
Originally by: Ice Fist They just got made a fool out of, how better to change that fact than by telling the guy who just stole from you that hes a thief and a sociopath in real life. It's a joke.
You're right at the start of your post, you are not the most insightful. Yes, there is a of difference between someone who steals or behaves sociopathically in a game and that behaviour in the "real world tm." Most people do not engage in the behaviour outside of a game, partly because they are aware of the consequences and do not wish to suffer them and partly because they understand that this is no acceptable within societal norms. People who engage in that behaviour outside of a game simply do not understand or do not care, about the consequences or what constitutes and acceptable norm of behaviour.
However, once you remove any real consequences, some individuals choose to indulge in immoral behaviour because they enjoy it and because they think (incorrectly) that this is somehow seperate to the rest of their personality.
There are plenty of salvagers here making assumptions about the personalities of mission runners. Yes, some mission runners are lazy and they are the prime targets for salvagers. Does this mean they are lazy out of game? Not necessarily in everything they do, but in some ways certainly. The fact that some mission runners seem to think that CCP should solve their problems, shows a distinct lack of mental wherewithall when it comes to taking responsibility for a situation and working out what they can do to resolve it.
Could you see this sort of person complaining to the police about their home being burgled because they failed to secure it properly? I certainly can. This is speculation and assumption, but also not a massive leap of logic either.
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Hayder Neable
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:18:00 -
[335]
Edited by: Hayder Neable on 03/04/2009 15:26:33 Edited by: Hayder Neable on 03/04/2009 15:24:43
Originally by: False Face So. You want tears. That makes you bully. Congrats.
To bullies, this how we know you r teen boy. pale, friendless, virgin cyber bullies. only b00b u touch is own man b00b.
blah blah blah....
Hmm, must remember to tell the wife this one, she'll have a good old chuckle. This is what I'm like in RL? Nah, I don't think so, I play games to escape for a couple of hours from RL and you'll find all my characters on any game are the complete opposite to the RL me.
In response to Kahegas last post as well, I had played Eve before and lasted all of 2 weeks. When checking out the forums a year later, someone whinger had bumped this post back to the first page. I opened a trial account that day, paid for it a week later and have thoroughly enjoyed Eve ever since. So if it wasn't for ninja salvaging I wouldn't even be playing Eve.
EDIT: In response to Sendrak, you're quite right, there is a part of me that would bend the rules and has done at times, however, I now do it through my characters.
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Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:53:00 -
[336]
Again, I find it laugahble to compare what I do in this game to a part of my psyche. It is such a weak justification based off little or no evidence. You speak of doing it because there are no consequences, this is to assume that if there weren't any consequences in RL that I would pirate and steal and scam people there too. I wouldn't though. The MAJOR difference that everyone is forgetting is that the character and the person I am affecting in this game by stealing and killing their ships isn't real either. The person behind the character is real, but what I steal from him here doesn't affect him in RL. Therefore I'm doing something morally wrong but its affecting nothing. Quite literally, it isn't affecting anything but a bunch of 1's and 0's. So sorry but you're whole "You steal in EVE so that means you want to steal in RL but don't because there are consequences in RL" argument still remains thin and ridiculous. It's just a pathetic justification for a moral superiority complex. Now I await you to brilliantly quote my post, chop it into smaller pieces and disect it all the while telling me I'm a bad person deep down because I like to pirate people in EVE. My Lord its so laughable, your argument basically means that anybody that plays any violent video game would enjoy violence in real life (deep down of course) if they could get away with it. My answer remains that some would of course, but to most but most are good people who raise families and go to work everyday, not degenerate sociopaths. You need a brighter view of humanity my friend. Deep down, we're not all killers :)
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:03:00 -
[337]
Edited by: Sendraks on 03/04/2009 17:03:12
Originally by: Ice Fist Again, I find it laugahble to compare what I do in this game to a part of my psyche. It is such a weak justification based off little or no evidence.
The evidence is your behaviour in game. Unless you are going to claim that is not actually you performing those actions, then it is part of your personality, part of who you are. This is not to say that it your defining charateristic, far from it, this could be a very small part of your personality. But it is still part of you.
Originally by: Ice Fist You speak of doing it because there are no consequences, this is to assume that if there weren't any consequences in RL that I would pirate and steal and scam people there too. I wouldn't though.
If you re-read my post, you'll also see the bit about accepted societal norms. Basically, you understand what is acceptable in the "real world tm" and behave accordingly. You also understand that the parameters are different ina computer game and behave differently.
To say that causing distress to another human being by deliberately seeking to do so has no RL consequences, shows a real lack of empathy on your part. Hopefully any mental anguish felt by the other players will be fleeting, but you dont know that. And fleeting or no is still a real outcome.
Originally by: Ice Fist So sorry but you're whole "You steal in EVE so that means you want to steal in RL but don't because there are consequences in RL" argument still remains thin and ridiculous.
I haven't made that argument and you clearly haven't understood what I read. Go back and read it again and stop typing nonsense the sole purpose of which is to reassure yourself.
Originally by: Ice Fist It's just a pathetic justification for a moral superiority complex.
I haven't claimed to be morally superior to you at any point. For all you know, I could torture small furry animals in my spare time.
Originally by: Ice Fist Now I await you to brilliantly quote my post, chop it into smaller pieces and disect it all the while telling me I'm a bad person deep down because I like to pirate people in EVE.
Have I said you were a bad person at anypoint? I don't think so, I've merely pointed out that what you do in game is part of who you are as a person. The two are not divisable. I haven't said that doing such makes you a bad person deep down, but if you think it does, perhaps you should reflect on that?
Or are you not mentally equipped to engage in that sort of self analysis? I suspect you are not.
Originally by: Ice Fist My Lord its so laughable, your argument basically means that anybody that plays any violent video game would enjoy violence in real life (deep down of course) if they could get away with it.
No it doesn't. Violence against computer controlled enemies is no way the same as a deliberate attempt to annoy/aggravate/harass/upset another human being through the medium of a game. Nor does it mean that action in the gaming medium will have its equivalent in the real world.
Originally by: Ice Fist My answer remains that some would of course, but to most but most are good people who raise families and go to work everyday, not degenerate sociopaths.
Your whole argument hinges on taking things to the illogical extreme, where naturally, it won't make sense. You haven't understood what I've written or the complexities of the issue. This is more subtle. If your whole counterpoint is reliant on illogical extremes, I suggest you give up debating this with me now. You'll only look foolish otherwise.
Seeking to aggreive others in a computer game does not make you a sociopath in real life (although it might), but it is still part of your personality. Why you would choose to do this, I don't know, but you evidently get delight from causing misery to others. The fact that you don't do it out of game is largely irrelvant. The fact that you do it all, is hugely relevant.
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Union Employee
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:12:00 -
[338]
Edited by: Union Employee on 03/04/2009 17:14:08 Here's a question for all you BAWWWmasters: if stealing and griefing others on the internet makes me a bastard in real life, does whining and crying on the internet make you a big bawling baby in real life?
edit: Haven't read the last little bit, sorry if this was asked already.
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Dzil
Caldari Elamous Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:28:00 -
[339]
One hypothesis is that someone doing this is a sociopath. But basing that on what they say is nonsense - because the first rule of sociopaths is don't trust them :P
Another is that it's just competition. Maybe getting under a MR's skin could cause them to cross the aggression line, allowing you to gank their MR fitted CNR or golem or whatever. Then he's no more a sociopath than a good poker player.
EVE is a game of competition. Psychological warfare is fair play. And on a final note, having played pen and paper RPGs for years, playing a character with an evil personality does not make you an evil person. This is especially true of GMs.
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Dzil
Caldari Elamous Industries
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:30:00 -
[340]
Originally by: Union Employee Edited by: Union Employee on 03/04/2009 17:14:08 Here's a question for all you BAWWWmasters: if stealing and griefing others on the internet makes me a bastard in real life, does whining and crying on the internet make you a big bawling baby in real life?
edit: Haven't read the last little bit, sorry if this was asked already.
Can I make my next corp BAWWWMaster Industries?
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:31:00 -
[341]
Originally by: Union Employee Edited by: Union Employee on 03/04/2009 17:14:08 Here's a question for all you BAWWWmasters: if stealing and griefing others on the internet makes me a bastard in real life,
I dunno, does it? I mean I expect most people offline are able to behave like reasonable, likeable human beings. After all, generally that is what our society and culture expects. Why a person should choose to behave contrary to societal norms in an online setting is a question for that individual to ask themselves. The individual in question might be otherwise well adjusted with a home, a family, a pet dog, a good job etc etc.
Yet online, they actively delight in making others miserable? What part of their psyche drives them to do that in the name of fun?
Stating that someone who kills others for a laugh in game and therefore they must do it in "real life tm" is a nonsense argument. It is obvious, to all but the most idiotic, that you won't get equivalency of behaviour between the different mediums.
Originally by: Union Employee does whining and crying on the internet make you a big bawling baby in real life?
I think I've already indicated in my earlier post that you can't extrapolate only negative behaviour, it has to apply to ALL forms of behaviour. As I already gave with my lazy mission runner example so.
So the whiners here might be the sort of people who go round complaining in real life and not taking any sort of action to rectify their situation. Or they might just complain and take action in RL or they might not complain and might not take action.
There are no simple analogues here, but a persons behaviour in game (or on these forums) is indivisable from who they are.
If you're thinking that I might be a pompous asshat for going on about this, then yes, it is unarguable that pompous asshattery is part of my psyche. It might not be as much a pompous asshat away from this keyboard, I might be more so. Who knows? But I'm not going to deny it or pretend that my behaviour here is not part of who I am.
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:35:00 -
[342]
Originally by: Dzil EVE is a game of competition. Psychological warfare is fair play. And on a final note, having played pen and paper RPGs for years, playing a character with an evil personality does not make you an evil person. This is especially true of GMs.
The roleplaying casestudy is a tricky one, I was waiting for someone to bring that up. It is a complex issue to get into, but I think we can take it as read that the vast majority of players in EvE are not roleplaying.
This is not to say that you cannot learn something about a person through studying the type of characters they play in a roleplaying game. Again, however, it is important to stress that you won't get direct comparisons between the person and the character, but there will be something in the players psychological make-up which influences their character choice and characters actions. But it cannot be said that evil character directly = evil player, anymore than a theif in eve = a theif in real life.
Only a moron would try to make that kind of argument (or counter argument).
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Terminus Vindictus
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.03 17:43:00 -
[343]
Originally by: Sendraks
Yet online, they actively delight in making others miserable? What part of their psyche drives them to do that in the name of fun?
The part of the psyche that recognizes this is a GAME, and not real in any way, so we might as well have fun using whatever game mechanics are available. You're not making a real person miserable, you're making another fictional character miserable. If real players can't separate themselves from their online persona, they should seriously consider stopping themselves from playing, and seeking professional counseling.
Let me say it again - it's a GAME!!! It's not real, it only exists on some server in London, and it's here for entertainment purposes only.
Hello, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help. |
Jauqs
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.03 19:39:00 -
[344]
Originally by: Sendraks
To say that causing distress to another human being by deliberately seeking to do so has no RL consequences, shows a real lack of empathy on your part. Hopefully any mental anguish felt by the other players will be fleeting, but you dont know that. And fleeting or no is still a real outcome.
Sendraks, I noticed you judiciously avoided the following part of Ice Fist's post:
Originally by: Ice Fist The MAJOR difference that everyone is forgetting is that the character and the person I am affecting in this game by stealing and killing their ships isn't real either. The person behind the character is real, but what I steal from him here doesn't affect him in RL. Therefore I'm doing something morally wrong but its affecting nothing. Quite literally, it isn't affecting anything but a bunch of 1's and 0's.
Your argument that somehow a salvager is actually doing any harm to another human being is based on an assumption that there is any value to the pixels in a computer game. Ice Fist is absolutely correct in viewing his actions as 'unimportant' in any real life way to whomever happens to be sitting at the computer at the other end of the connection, because there is absolutely no real world impact caused by Ice.
Originally by: Sendraks Hopefully any mental anguish felt by the other players will be fleeting, but you dont know that.
It just is as true to say that you do not know if ANY mental anguish will be caused or has been caused. You are unable to read another persons mind.
Here your argument boils down to that it is somehow "virtuous and right" to go into a PvP game assuming you will cause mental anguish and thus you should avoid PvP; and that it is "evil and psychopathic" going into a PvP game assuming that mentally stable adults play who know the difference between pixels and matter thus you engage in PvP.
It is as much an assumption on your part that actions in the game will cause mental anguish (fleeting or no) as it is any salvagers assumption that actions in the game will be seen for what they are - pixels interacting with pixels for entertainment purposes.
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Sendraks
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 20:47:00 -
[345]
Edited by: Sendraks on 03/04/2009 20:47:45 Edited by: Sendraks on 03/04/2009 20:47:19
Originally by: Jauqs Sendraks, I noticed you judiciously avoided the following part of Ice Fist's post:
No I didn't, but there is a character limit on these posts and I chose not to waste it with what is, basically, a poor reworking of the "its only a game" argument.
Originally by: Jauqs Your argument that somehow a salvager is actually doing any harm to another human being is based on an assumption that there is any value to the pixels in a computer game. Ice Fist is absolutely correct in viewing his actions as 'unimportant' in any real life way to whomever happens to be sitting at the computer at the other end of the connection, because there is absolutely no real world impact caused by Ice.
The important word here is "intent." Aside from my not personally having a problem with salvagers (I think it is a perfectly valid activity) there is a difference between someone going about salvaging and not seeking to annoy anyone (although that might be an unfortunate byproduct of their action, but some do attempt to mitigate that) and those who see annoying people as an added benefit or the principle intended consequence of their actions.
The real world impact, if the intent to annoy is successful, is the upset caused to another human being. That is a real impact and consequence. Not attempt to dissemble through nonsense arguments can escape that fact.
Another product, which I had forgotten until your post reminded me, is that the persons time has also been (to an extent) wasted. Time for many of us, is a precious commodity, especially recreation time. For another person to come along with malice of forethought and deliberate ruin/waste that time, is morally dubious behaviour at best.
Originally by: Jauqs It just is as true to say that you do not know if ANY mental anguish will be caused or has been caused. You are unable to read another persons mind.
I think you'd have to be staggeringly naive not to realise when you've genuinely upset someone in game. Certainly those who are seeking "carebear tears" know when they've found them.
Originally by: Jauqs Here your argument boils down to that it is somehow "virtuous and right" to go into a PvP game assuming you will cause mental anguish and thus you should avoid PvP; and that it is "evil and psychopathic" going into a PvP game assuming that mentally stable adults play who know the difference between pixels and matter thus you engage in PvP.
Nope, that is not my argument at all, just some gibberish that you made up. A by-product of PvP is that sometimes, the other party will feel aggreived for a variety of reasons. The important factor is whether you set out to achieve that emotional outcome. I'm not seeking to annoy anyone when I engage in PvP, I'm just trying not to be blown up.
If you are going to try and persuade me or anyone else that entering in a game with the deliberate intent of upsetting another person for your own amusement is morally sound behaviour, go ahead. You will be on a hiding to nothing.
Originally by: Jauqs It is as much an assumption on your part that actions in the game will cause mental anguish (fleeting or no) as it is any salvagers assumption that actions in the game will be seen for what they are - pixels interacting with pixels for entertainment purposes.
I'm afraid you've missed the point entirely. This is not my argument at all. At no point have I stated that the activity of salvaging is an activity that will inherently cause mental anguish. My argument is purely based on those who deliberately seek to annoy others in game, but claim that this is no way a reflection of who they are as a person, when it obviously is. To what extent, greater or lesser, will very from person to person.
I'm afraid you've wandered into the wrong argument.
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Voridor Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.04.04 04:38:00 -
[346]
Ahh, gotta love all of this internet psychologist bull****.
It's all a joke.
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False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.04 08:21:00 -
[347]
playin evil in pen-paper rpg not pvp. you know EVE not much rpg (that is good). anon of online make many bad. they spend time. much much time to grief others. u enjoy spending so much time + energy make others sad? thats bully. kick over sand castle? bully.
in EVE, it part of world. but still bully. still bad. still make MAD. hope ninja sweet and kind in RL. doubt it though. only jerk think bully is fun. even for play.
so. mark for death. move on. |
Murbella Venturi
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Posted - 2009.04.04 08:41:00 -
[348]
me bully you whiner
me type good
hurrrrr
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Baptiste Richelieu
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Posted - 2009.04.04 09:15:00 -
[349]
Pompous asshats that try to use psichologic mumbo jumbo to rationalize what is nothing but a way to have fun in a game are one of the causes that people join to this class of corps (or guilds in another games).
BTW, are ninjas still recruiting?
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.04.04 11:29:00 -
[350]
Kahega, props for the video example; was planning on getting into scanning/exploration mechanics and although the wiki was relatively detailed, the vid made everything so much easier to understand.
Made a trial account/character to do some low-scale pvp experimentations less than a week ago on the side, and ended up training the astrometric skills after reading this guide (Ironically, the other thread that was unfavourable in it's points about ninja salvaging made me find this thread). With a meager isk capital injection from this char, I purchased two frigates and equipment, one for scanning and one for salvaging. The investment is already paying off in spades!
After roughly one and a half days of my normal game time of scanning down ships and seven mission sites later, I've made approximately 55mil isk in salvaged parts alone, not counting the occasional rat loot i've picked up. Really not a bad way to make some isk on the side plus I'm having a lot of fun learning more about the game mechanics along the way and improving at it.
Some fun experiences: Scanned down the same CNR pilot twice in the same system, one of which was him doing an AE4. Also, concur with the point about Sanshas; one L4 mission alone that i scanned down with them made up quite a percentage of my total 55mil.
Kudos to Suddenly Ninjas for helping me to enrich my eve experience! Also, bump!
MacGyver
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Arix Sevius
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Posted - 2009.04.04 12:06:00 -
[351]
i have spent 2.5 hours reading this post and i have never laughed so freakin hard in my life.
Thank you sooo much for the enjoyable time this morning.
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Harrigan VonStudly
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.04 16:16:00 -
[352]
This post, which was done very well by Kahega, is an informational and educational post. It is done very well and explains viable information to use should one wish to engage in an allowable and sanctioned (by CCP) mini-profession, or whatever you wish to call it. The whining in such a thread shows the mentality of said whiners and further proves why ninja salvaging should always remain a viable profession.
/whiners should be dealt with
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Shinjo Bajahnhosuu
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Posted - 2009.04.05 18:52:00 -
[353]
Hello all - enjoyed the tutorial and enjoyed the debate even more. (At times it's degenerated in 'who can post a bigger wall of text' type of debate common on the interwebz, but what the hell, it's entertaining).
My take, from a newbie just coming to Eve, is that Eve, unlike other that-which-shall-not-be-named-ok-I-mean-WoW MMOs is a game that forces PVP on you. That's the intent and that's the design...and christ, that's the appeal. It's not supposed to be safe, it's not supposed to be easy.
So yes, hisec should be safer but there's nothing to stop a corp from declaring war on your corp and dragging you into PVP, whether you like it or not. Similarly, yes, missioning in hisec is a mostly safe, mostly PVE affair. You can kill your ships and complete your mission generally free from intrusion. The contents of the loot are yours according to the rules but the salvage is not. Salvage material and the collection of it is PVP. CCP has said so, it's in the rules and to complain otherwise I find attempts to remove what is one of the key selling points of this game ... forced PVP and a dangerous, uncertain and nasty universe.
Whether or not there's some deep, anti-social, misanthropic undercurrents to the salvaging sub-game (or mini-profession) is something I'll leave to the psychologists on the board. But I find this sort of risky game mechanic to be truly the key to Eve. Otherwise it's just WoW-in-Space.
Also, why it's even called Ninja Salvaging I don't get. It's not inherently yours so it's not Ninja if I take it. Ninja Looting yes, but not Ninja Salvaging.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 30/03/2009 19:58:00 Astrometric Triangulation - 10% increased scan strength per level. This will allow you to get better hits and scan down sites faster-highly recommended
I believe this is (now?) called Astrometric Rangefinding. Triangulation doesn't exist (at least in EveMon and Rangefinding seems to do what's described here.
PS. Yes this is my main. I've only been playing for 3 weeks and I'm still in NPC corp.
PPS. Several years ago I read a sci-fi series by Stephen R. Donaldson (writer of the Covenant Chronicles series) called the Gap Series. Eve reminds me of this series. Spaced-based with a similar ethos ... space is harsh, mean, cruel and loaded with opportunity if you've got the balls and the wherewithal to compete. I highly recommend it.
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Quantar Raalsken
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.04.05 18:58:00 -
[354]
needs a update
u NEED astrometrics at lvl 2 cause u need combat probes and combat probes require an expanded launcher and the expanded launcher requires astrometrics 2 ================================================
GENERATION 22: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment |
Drake Konstantin
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Posted - 2009.04.05 20:46:00 -
[355]
Originally by: Shinjo Bajahnhosuu
Whether or not there's some deep, anti-social, misanthropic undercurrents to the salvaging sub-game (or mini-profession) is something I'll leave to the psychologists on the board.
Yeah man, I trust their opinion. They are, after all, from the internet and obviously qualified.
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False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.06 01:13:00 -
[356]
Shinjo is thoughtful and measured. how refreshing. Thus my solution: make a list, hire mercs. it only took me 1 month to save up for a nice gank. be cool to see ninja corp decced by good guy alliance. not likely. but that is EVE appeal for me--plan enough, maybe you can solve problem u-self. stories of GHSC why i start play. knife in dark style. nice. little thiefses/little dreams. what is line from outkast "you can have the whole world or be satisfied with boulevard." overstand?
salvage not technical thieving but it takes fruits of my work. |
Voridor Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.04.06 02:32:00 -
[357]
Originally by: False Face overstand?
just barely man, just barely.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.06 02:53:00 -
[358]
Quote: needs a update
u NEED astrometrics at lvl 2 cause u need combat probes and combat probes require an expanded launcher and the expanded launcher requires astrometrics 2
Quote:
I believe this is (now?) called Astrometric Rangefinding. Triangulation doesn't exist (at least in EveMon and Rangefinding seems to do what's described here.
Thanks guys, fixing now.
Quote: Also, why it's even called Ninja Salvaging I don't get. It's not inherently yours so it's not Ninja if I take it. Ninja Looting yes, but not Ninja Salvaging
For a couple reasons
a) You're flying into the middle of a battle with large ships everywhere, zipping from wreck to wreck to salvage, and
b) The missionrunner usually intends to salvage the field; a ninjasalvager gets in there and does it before the missionrunner has a chance.
"ninja" doesn't mean "thief". It more refers to the efficiency and speed at which you do it.
Thanks for the feedback folks. As always, just post any criticism here. If you hate ninjasalvaging, feel free to post and bump this thread back up to the top
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Whineroy
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Posted - 2009.04.06 06:58:00 -
[359]
Edited by: Whineroy on 06/04/2009 06:59:17
Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly This post, which was done very well by Kahega, is an informational and educational post. It is done very well and explains viable information to use should one wish to engage in an allowable and sanctioned (by CCP) mini-profession, or whatever you wish to call it. The whining in such a thread shows the mentality of said whiners and further proves why ninja salvaging should always remain a viable profession.
/whiners should be dealt with
Lol, "shows mentality of said whiners", yet at other posts you "ninjas" are whining about people analyzing *your* RL natures based on your posts/in-game actions. Pure hypocrisy, but that is obviously one of primary requirements on being a "ninja". So eager to treat others with arrogance, contempt and insults (it is blatantly obvious that most ninjas hate mission runners yet they keep trying to mask it under "Eve gameplay balance"- bull**** lies), yet one slap back and watch the whining commence.
Ninja salvaging is part of game, nothing wrong with that... Just next time cut off all the hypocrisy, OK ? :)
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Murbella Venturi
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Posted - 2009.04.06 07:47:00 -
[360]
Edited by: Murbella Venturi on 06/04/2009 07:48:34
Originally by: Whineroy Edited by: Whineroy on 06/04/2009 06:59:17 Lol, "shows mentality of said whiners", yet at other posts you "ninjas" are whining about people analyzing *your* RL natures based on your posts/in-game actions. Pure hypocrisy, but that is obviously one of primary requirements on being a "ninja". So eager to treat others with arrogance, contempt and insults (it is blatantly obvious that most ninjas hate mission runners yet they keep trying to mask it under "Eve gameplay balance"- bull**** lies), yet one slap back and watch the whining commence.
Ninja salvaging is part of game, nothing wrong with that... Just next time cut off all the hypocrisy, OK ? :)
Stop whining about ninja looters whining about whiners, K?
edit - now I'm whining about you whining about ninja looters whining about whiners... LOOK WHAT YOU DID
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.06 07:51:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Baptiste Richelieu Pompous asshats that try to use psichologic mumbo jumbo to rationalize what is nothing but a way to have fun in a game are one of the causes that people join to this class of corps (or guilds in another games).
BTW, are ninjas still recruiting?
Baptiste, we are always lookin for fresh blood =)
Send me a mail ingame if you want some info.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.06 10:50:00 -
[362]
Originally by: Whineroy Ninja salvaging is part of game, nothing wrong with that... Just next time cut off all the hypocrisy, OK ? :)
Looking for a line that neatly summarises my long rambling posts? This is it.
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Hakkod
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Posted - 2009.04.06 11:55:00 -
[363]
To whomever thinks you can't do this for the money.
My personal record is 24 million worth in salvage taken from a 5 room mission, full of large wrecks. This took approx 30 - 45 minutes maybe?
Granted, the 5 - 10 mil missions are more often encountered, but filter your scans properly and your chances'll go up to be, shall we say, quite profitable..
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.06 12:59:00 -
[364]
Edited by: Nyota Sol on 06/04/2009 13:01:38
I suspect this isnt particularly profitable unless you know what you are doing and have the proper astro skills to back it up. I did a test run at nina salvaging on an alt and concluded it wasn't time efficient (yet). Even if it was, I don't see myself engaging in it because it's somewhat pathetic.
Here's the issue (which makes 90% of this discussion moot):
The incoming patch will make scanning down single targets in mission areas child's play, making this even faster for skills ninjas and very easy for new ones. I imagine many players turning this into their primary profession to such an extent that eve gameplay and perhaps economics will change over the coming month.
If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play. ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.06 13:57:00 -
[365]
Originally by: Nyota Sol If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play.
The solution to this is obvious and any mission runner with any sense has been pursuing this course of action for some time.
Ofc - this might not be such a good option post patch, but we'll see. Bottom line is CCP keep all things under constant review and if overly easy scanning has a negative impact on the game (i.e. drives down subs) then it'll get changed again.
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Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.04.06 14:56:00 -
[366]
"Killing" NPC's and Shooting someone's internet space ship/ stealing their internet money isn't any different to me. Just because there is a human on the other end doesn't change the fact that everything in EvE is controlled by 1's and 0's. I don't hurt people out of game because I have morals, not because of "social norms." Social norms can change, my morals won't. But my morals don't apply to 1's and 0's, that's the draw of a game like this is you can act like someone your not. If doing what I do in this game hurts someone in IRL, then they need a new pasttime. Seriously. Nothing that happens in this game should ever hurt anyone and people affected in a negative manner need to do something else with their time and money.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.06 15:16:00 -
[367]
Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 15:17:05 Icefist - I see what you are saying, but I think you're confusing "activity" and "intent."
If you're setting out in eve to engage in activity, such as salvaging, then that might have the untended effect of upsetting someone, which is regrettable but unavoidable and entirely "part of the game". I would agree with you that here the "it is only a game" argument holds water and it isn't worth getting all het up about.
However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment. This is, at best, morally dubious behaviour. You cannot argue that "it is only a game" at this point, because the intended outcome of your actions is outside of the gaming environment.
In summary, the "intent" here is the key thing. If you're not out to deliberately annoy anyone, then fair enough. I agree with you, it is just bunch a 1s & 0s.
If you are out to deliberately annoy someone then your argument is void.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.06 15:58:00 -
[368]
Quote:
The incoming patch will make scanning down single targets in mission areas child's play, making this even faster for skills ninjas and very easy for new ones. I imagine many players turning this into their primary profession to such an extent that eve gameplay and perhaps economics will change over the coming month.
If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play.
Explain? Link or it's (Not going to) happen
Quote: However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment. This is, at best, morally dubious behaviour. You cannot argue that "it is only a game" at this point, because the intended outcome of your actions is outside of the gaming environment.
It's relative. The way I see it is that someone isn't going to get ****ed off unless they take their internet spaceships way too seriously.
I'd agree with your post, except I see nothing wrong with ****ing someone off who expects to be left alone in a competitive PVP game. It's much like how, if I was playing Team Fortress 2, and some guy was *****ing that the other team was trying to kill him, I'd go out of my way to do it repeatedly. I technically am seeking to **** a real player off, but if he's being an idiot then I don't care.
If you're looking for a more positive point of view: Ninjasalvaging helps teach players about EVE's true nature (that you have to compete for stuff; it's not just handed to you). Many people I run into are actually rather civil. One of the more active members of the Ninja Alliance channel actually discovered the profession after -his- mission was salvaged...so it helps grow the profession, as well.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:05:00 -
[369]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Nyota Sol
The incoming patch will make scanning down single targets in mission areas child's play, making this even faster for skills ninjas and very easy for new ones. I imagine many players turning this into their primary profession to such an extent that eve gameplay and perhaps economics will change over the coming month.
If you run missions in a battleship within a popular L4 mission system, i think the odds of seeing people pop into your deadspace will rise to the point of changing how people play.
Explain? Link or it's (Not going to) happen
Log onto test server and see for yourself.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1039779
___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:08:00 -
[370]
Meh. I don't see that making it much easier to find individual missionrunners.
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Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:13:00 -
[371]
Originally by: Sendraks Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 15:17:05 However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment. This is, at best, morally dubious behaviour. You cannot argue that "it is only a game" at this point, because the intended outcome of your actions is outside of the gaming environment.
Again I'm sorry, but there are many other games available to be played where there are more game mechanics and gameplay restrictions that protect players from other players. EVE is meant to be harsh, it is supposed to be harsh, you're not supposed to ever be safe. The moment you undock you are at the mercy of other players.
I would whole-heartedly agree with youre arguement if players were harrassing other players through unintended mechanics/glitches/hacks/exploits. However, pirating, scamming, thiervery, spying, etc. were all INTENDED by the developer and everyone who pays for an account should understand this and at the very least should have realized it by the end of their trial. I would venture to say that players tell themselves "Those things won't ever happen to me." But given enough time you WILL lose a ship, you WILL lose money and other players WILL grief you. That's the game, its supposed to be that way and I don't think its morally dubious behavior to play the bad guy in a game if it was intended and supported by the mechanics, especially since in the end everything comes down to 1's and 0's.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:32:00 -
[372]
Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 16:33:10
Originally by: Kahega Amielden It's relative. The way I see it is that someone isn't going to get ****ed off unless they take their internet spaceships way too seriously.
I agree that quite a few mission runners need to take a chill pill.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I'd agree with your post, except I see nothing wrong with ****ing someone off who expects to be left alone in a competitive PVP game. It's much like how, if I was playing Team Fortress 2, and some guy was *****ing that the other team was trying to kill him, I'd go out of my way to do it repeatedly. I technically am seeking to **** a real player off, but if he's being an idiot then I don't care.
Again, in this scenario I'd probably do the same because the other person is being a prat. I can imagine a similar scenario where you're quietly salvaging someone's mission, not drawing attention to yourself and they start talking crap. At which point they've brought it upon themselves to have further, less pleasant visitations from a salvager.
I think we're on the same page here.
However, what I've been discussing is those who set out with the deliberate intent of annoying another player. The basic assumption here, and I apologise (especially to IceFist who has been struggling with this discussion) if I've been unclear, is that the target of this behaviour has done nothing to provoke such a harassment. We're not just talking about salvaging someone here and hoping they might get annoyed then responding to it, but going about it in a way to deliberately upset that other person.
That is a different matter entirely, as then activity is about annoying another player, not salvaging.
Originally by: Kahega Amielden If you're looking for a more positive point of view: Ninjasalvaging helps teach players about EVE's true nature (that you have to compete for stuff; it's not just handed to you). Many people I run into are actually rather civil. One of the more active members of the Ninja Alliance channel actually discovered the profession after -his- mission was salvaged...so it helps grow the profession, as well.
My thought entirely. Gotta love those little space critters flying around tidying things up, because, you know, there isn't always time to salvage your missions.
*edit*
Icefist - have read your post and I still think you're confusing activity and intent. Sorry. I agree with some of what you're saying, but you're missing the fundamental point.
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Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:33:00 -
[373]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Meh. I don't see that making it much easier to find individual missionrunners.
You dont see how being able to instantly turn off all scan results except for 1 ship ID would help you sort through a 100+ mission runners? Let me guess, your retort is "im so 1337 already that it wont make a difference." ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.06 16:41:00 -
[374]
Quote: You dont see how being able to instantly turn off all scan results except for 1 ship ID would help you sort through a 100+ mission runners? Let me guess, your retort is "im so 1337 already that it wont make a difference."
No, I don't. Unless you have a SPECIFIC ship in mind then it makes virtually no difference.
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Ethidium
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Posted - 2009.04.06 17:24:00 -
[375]
Originally by: Nyota Sol
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Meh. I don't see that making it much easier to find individual missionrunners.
You dont see how being able to instantly turn off all scan results except for 1 ship ID would help you sort through a 100+ mission runners? Let me guess, your retort is "im so 1337 already that it wont make a difference."
Why yes, I am so 1337 that it won't matter.
With regards to scanning down missions, the only change I'm excited about is the remote bookmark. Question: Have you tried to scan down mission runners in a high population system? It doesn't matter how many ships I find in my initial scan. I don't care which one I scan down, I just need one or two. With minimal skills (~1mil sp total atm) I can scan down a mission in < 3 min. The only thing I see improving my time is training my skills higher.
I do hope that the current wire frame that they have doesn't make it live as is. Dang near makes my eyes bleed.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.07 12:05:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Sendraks Edited by: Sendraks on 06/04/2009 15:17:05
However, if you are deliberately setting out to annoy/aggreive/upset another player, then there is a real life consequence to that. The intended real consequence of your actions is to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction in another person for no reason other than your own enjoyment.
And sometimes I have to do exactly this to provoke the MRs to take that first shot. If I am after the destruction of the MRs ship (to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction) then sometimes I must annoy/aggreive/upset them to provoke them to active their weapons on me.
Does this make me a bad person?
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.07 13:21:00 -
[377]
Originally by: Dotard And sometimes I have to do exactly this to provoke the MRs to take that first shot.
So basically you're out culling the stupid pilots.
Sounds like a community service to me.
Originally by: Dotard If I am after the destruction of the MRs ship (to deliberately provoke a negative emotional reaction) then sometimes I must annoy/aggreive/upset them to provoke them to active their weapons on me.
It is debatable whether stupidity is a negative emotional reaction. Your intent here is the MR's ship. You want to provoke them into doing something stupid.
Hard to judge your process for doing this, if all you're doing is provoking them by saying "I'm taking your salvage unless you shoot my ship" or something equally bland, then that is hardly abusing the other person. To be fair, we also have to accept that the truly dense will open fire on salvagers without any discussion at all.
Difficult to say without a clearer idea of what you do to provoke.
Originally by: Dotard Does this make me a bad person?
I've said that I'm making no judgements of individuals here, only that some activities are morally dubious and that actions you take in game are indivisable from your psyche. You are who you are, both in and out of game.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.07 14:18:00 -
[378]
Lets get something out of the way. I am not a nice person in real life and I am not a nice person in game. I can be mean spirited when the mood arises. I can be sadistic to the point of making someone cry just to see them cry. I can also be kind to animals and bugs (crickets I kill on sight). What keeps me in check in "The Real World" are the "Real World" consequences of my actions. I do not like the thought of spending "quality time" with Bubba in jail.
The only consequence in Eve for my unsocial like behavior is the consequences that the other players in Eve seem fit to hand down. I will, and do, perform tasks in this game that should irritate people to the point of blasting my ship to space dust. They do not. They could, and should, war dec the corp I belong to for the things we do in game to other people and be justified in erasing us off the face of Eve. They do not.
I play this game the way the Eve Developers have envisioned. I have made my own rules for playing this game. I follow the few rules that CCP has handed down so that I do not get banned for un-CCP like behavior.
I invade mission runners dead spaces and take their salvage with nary a word on my part, unless they start the conversation first, or I feel a need to advise them on what they are doing wrong in the mission and how to finish it faster. I have caused mission runners to shoot at me in their missions and have held them for ransom and have blown up their ships after they have paid. It's how I play the game.
If you have a problem with my way of playing this game and telling me I am a bad person on the forums will do nothing to stop me from continuing with my play style. In fact it will just encourage me to continue with it. If you truly wish for me to change my ways or somehow remove me from the game so that mission runners will have peace to do their missions you know who I am and by extension you should be able to find me and the corp I belong to in the game. I invite you to make us stop what we are doing with actions and not this "noise" that is in this thread.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.04.07 14:41:00 -
[379]
Well this arguement has been interesting. I conceded that there are some people who will consistently play an RPG like eve as if it were an extension of their own life (i.e. nice people are nice, and bad people pirate). It's just like the sociopaths that play GTA and go out and kill people thinking it's ok, but there are alot more people who play GTA and realize it for what it is and enjoy it for what it is. But EVE is a different story. It's not a truely violent game, I mean the goriest thing in eve is the floating corpse. I don't think any action in eve could come to be an inspiration to violent behavior (unless you play too much, then parents, gf's, wives etc. get violent). It's RPG and sandbox nature set it apart in a way where you can act in a way that youre not predisposed to act. I can see how this could mean that these people are capable of such behavior IRL even if they don't act that way, but I don't think it's true in every case. Some people are morally sound and wouldn't hurt or steal in life but can go on eve and scam billions or slaughter noobs in their thousands and then log off and be who they really are. Again, I can see how this could be an insight to their personality, but this is the way the game is supposed to be played and whether I intend it or not if anyone is hurt by something i've done to them in game then they shouldn't be playing eve. This is how the game is meant to be played. It's supposed to be brutal and unforgiving. Everyone fly safe :)
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.07 14:53:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal If you have a problem with my way of playing this game and telling me I am a bad person on the forums will do nothing to stop me from continuing with my play style.
I don't have a problem with it and couldn't give a rats arse whether you are that way out of game or not. At least you are fundamentally honest about who you are and don't hide behind excuses.
I would also cite your post to all the whiny mission runners in this thread as an example of why the onus is on them to resolve any "difficulties" they have with salvagers and not CCP. After all CCP have given them (the whiny mission runners) the tools to do so in game.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.07 15:00:00 -
[381]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal If you have a problem with my way of playing this game and telling me I am a bad person on the forums will do nothing to stop me from continuing with my play style.
I don't have a problem with it and couldn't give a rats arse whether you are that way out of game or not. At least you are fundamentally honest about who you are and don't hide behind excuses.
I would also cite your post to all the whiny mission runners in this thread as an example of why the onus is on them to resolve any "difficulties" they have with salvagers and not CCP. After all CCP have given them (the whiny mission runners) the tools to do so in game.
I did not try to aim this specifically at you. It is a general response on my part to the posts I have seen over the years of people complaining about the types of actions I and others do in game. It is not my responsibility to change how I play the game to fit others style. It is their responsibility to "whack me upside the head" if I irritate them in game because no one else will do it for them.
One of my guiding thoughts in real life is "you are responsible for you, no one else is".
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Nyota Sol
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.04.07 17:03:00 -
[382]
i cant believe this silly and petty moral argument is going on page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page after page.
you guys are just talking to hear yourselves at this point. ___________________________________________
Lost in Space - Apocrypha Exploration Resources |
Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.07 18:17:00 -
[383]
I will never understand why ninja salvaging provokes such a heated response. If salvage and loot were the only rewards for running missions, the way ore is the only reward for mining, then I would understand it, but it's not. Mission runners get mission rewards and bounties and in most cases don't bother to salvage or loot the mission themselves, so exactly what difference does it make if I come along later and clean up?
And what does my decision to pursue salvaging and rig making have to do with who I am in real life? Nothing! Are the guys that gate-camp low-sec considered to be evil, mean-spirited people in real life? No, yet the activity they choose to engage in results in considerably more grief to other pilots then does ninja salvaging. I assume the argument will be something to do with how they are willing to risk going into low-sec or some such, but as a salvager who routinely loots as well, I am also running the risk of being shot at, and what's more, I am running that risk in a ship that is not well tanked and does not have any offensive capabilities whatsoever.
Seriously people, WHY DO YOU CARE SO MUCH?
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Drake Konstantin
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:17:00 -
[384]
Originally by: Sendraks You are who you are, both in and out of game.
So in your case, bursting at the seams with bull****?
Makes sense to me.
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Herpes Sweatrash
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Posted - 2009.04.07 21:29:00 -
[385]
I try ninja salvage but they always pop the wrecks and warp out so I get a targetted!!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.07 22:05:00 -
[386]
Originally by: Herpes Sweatrash I try ninja salvage but they always pop the wrecks and warp out so I get a targetted!!
a) Go to another mission for the time being and come back in a few minutes or
or
b) Just stay there anyway. You can, if you fly properly, speedtank most mission groups for awhile (unless there are scram rats, in which case GTFO)...and if they pop wrecks...let them. They're just denying themselves access to the loot -and- the salvage.
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Cukaz Nikanoru
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.04.07 23:46:00 -
[387]
And then go back to the station and sell your stuff for 1isk less than Kahega, apparently he LOVES when you do that!
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Minnie Matarri
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Posted - 2009.04.08 04:42:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Myshella Drake Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob?[/quote
Yes, unless you think mining is more fun.
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Giannamichaels
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Posted - 2009.04.08 07:07:00 -
[389]
What is the exact name of the probe and the probe launcher (sisters version) to do this activity?
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.08 12:10:00 -
[390]
Originally by: Dedalus77 I will never understand why ninja salvaging provokes such a heated response.
Because the people complaining seem to think that CCP owes them an uninterrupted flow of ISKies in return for their subscriptions?
Originally by: Dedalus77 And what does my decision to pursue salvaging and rig making have to do with who I am in real life? Nothing!
Did you take time to think about this before you typed it? Do you not realise how hugely illogical this statement is.
I'll simplify it for you, because you and many others seem have difficulty grasping what is a fundamentally basic concept.
Who you are, as a person in RL, influences what you do in game. What you do in game does not necessarily influence what you do in RL (indeed this is highly unlikey), but is a product of your personality never-the-less. You cannot divorce one from the other.
Originally by: Dedalus77 Are the guys that gate-camp low-sec considered to be evil, mean-spirited people in real life? No!
If you'd actually paid attention to this thread, you'll see that some players believe they are as mean spirited in RL as they are in game.
If you'd actually paid attention to this thread, you'd realise the activities and behaviours are not analgous in the different mediums.
If you'd paid attention to this thread, you wouldn't have written a load of nonsense.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2009.04.08 13:15:00 -
[391]
I take solace in knowing that people who go on and on and on forums with sanctimonious prattle about morality and make-belief psychology are just the same in real life and a nuisance at parties
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.08 14:05:00 -
[392]
I take solace that you're probably too thick to be invited to parties.
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Sigul Siento
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Posted - 2009.04.08 16:04:00 -
[393]
I know you are, but what am I?
(hah, got him good there!)
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False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.10 18:58:00 -
[394]
curious. what means "whine"? If crime victim go on tv and say, i don't like get robbed, is he whining? mom go on tv say guy kill my child and i don't like that, is she whiner?
real problem is: you bunch of dumb kids. i would say you all full of testosterone and no place to let it out, but that no true (see previous "pale, friendless virgin" comment). You all full of estrogen--nothin but b**ches. With man b00bs. Nice size, but still man b00b.
long poster guy: stop please. agree w/ u, but giant post annoying. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.10 19:29:00 -
[395]
Quote: curious. what means "whine"? If crime victim go on tv and say, i don't like get robbed, is he whining? mom go on tv say guy kill my child and i don't like that, is she whiner?
If a crime victim goes on TV to complain about being robbed in a video game then yes
If a mother goes on that someone killed her child's internets videogame character then yes.
Quote: real problem is: you bunch of dumb kids. i would say you all full of testosterone and no place to let it out, but that no true (see previous "pale, friendless virgin" comment). You all full of estrogen--nothin but b**ches. With man b00bs. Nice size, but still man b00b.
4/10
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.11 00:04:00 -
[396]
Edited by: Marlenus on 11/04/2009 00:04:38
Originally by: Sendraks What you do in game...is a product of your personality never-the-less. You cannot divorce one from the other.
Maybe you can't, but I think maybe you don't understand about roleplaying and roleplayers. Because this statement is blatantly false for most of us. ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.04.12 23:23:00 -
[397]
Edited by: Nefrin Maldoes on 12/04/2009 23:23:17
Originally by: Sendraks ...lots of stuff...
Firstly, Sendraks, can you linky any actual proof to your statements in regards to the whole "who you are in RL will reflect in game" statements?
Personally, I don't believe that your statements carry much weight. Both you and I witness people on a daily basis that are able to seperate their real life personality from a character they play. Ever watched a movie or TV show?
Yes, some actors will say that they put a lot of personality into a role, but then there are lots of actors that don't. Based on your logical statements, Heath Ledger would, deep down, be a homicidal maniac who likes purple suits and Robert Englund would like to do nothing more then gut people with razor sharp knives. Excessive examples? Perhaps, but only to prove a point that many people posess the ability to seperate their core beings from something imaginary.
I've also been roleplaying for several years, online and offline. While many of the characters I have portrayed do have some reflection of me in them, at times I have forced myself to play in a way that is totally contradictory to who I am. Reasons for this can include to expand my abilities as a roleplayer, or just to try something new.
Personally, I have a core belief that fighting someone (physically) should be a last resort, and that if it comes to that, all gloves are off, kill or be killed. Yet I have forced myself to play characters that will murder someone just because they looked at them funny. I've also played characters that wouldn't hurt any living thing regardless of the circumstances.
This is just my arguement that -some- people can be vastly different in a game then they are in real life. I am sure that there are some people that cannot seperate the real from the imaginary, and for those folks, I say this: I'd rather have them vent out their need to cause grief and misery in a video game rather then doing it in real life.
Edit: first on page 14
Originally by: Horza Otho I'd like a sig of raptorjesus in a panzor tank falcon punching a mashup of Obama and Bush into a blackhole that turns out to be hillary clintons bunghole.
Serious.
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Alicina Goodbody
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Posted - 2009.04.13 05:40:00 -
[398]
Edited by: Alicina Goodbody on 13/04/2009 05:44:31 Edited by: Alicina Goodbody on 13/04/2009 05:43:15 Edited by: Alicina Goodbody on 13/04/2009 05:42:58 Edited by: Alicina Goodbody on 13/04/2009 05:41:32 Listen folks, EVE is the real world. Mother F u c k e r s outnumber every type of group of people on this planet. This is the reason why all our great grandchildren are going to be dead before their time. The m o t h e r f u c k e r s are destroying the entire f u c k i n g planet and they are not going to relent until they have their way. Their way is to pull the wings off every f u c k i n g fly, kill every defenseless human in every hut on this forsaken planet, and p i s s on the whole pile s h i t that remains. Those of us over 50 have a chance of dying peacefully in our beds. The rest of you are going to suffer horrible fates at the hands of the m o t h e r f u c k e r s just so that can get their rocks off. This is what religion gives them the right to do and by every psychotic whim this is what their imaginary friend demands that they do. F u c k the alter boys, kill the Palestinians, put the little girl next door into a suitcase and drown her, it is all the same to them, they win.
Oh BTW report me I am a troll
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Mulligan Basti
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Posted - 2009.04.13 12:48:00 -
[399]
Great thread.
I've had lots of good laughs from the carebears.
(Those wielding pointy, rusty nails, to show off their l33t pvp skills in hi-sec local)
Now ninja salvaging in lo-sec or 0.0, that sounds like fun - in a way that actually involves playing the game.
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Mistress Evita
Caldari Booze and Hookers
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Posted - 2009.04.13 14:42:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Mulligan Basti Now ninja salvaging in lo-sec or 0.0, that sounds like fun - in a way that actually involves playing the game.
I thought I was playing the game. If I am not playing the game right I would like to know from an expert on how one, such has I, should play the game.
What am I doing wrong?
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Mulligan Basti
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Posted - 2009.04.13 15:15:00 -
[401]
Quote:
I thought I was playing the game. If I am not playing the game right I would like to know from an expert on how one, such has I, should play the game.
What am I doing wrong?
You're not doing anything wrong if thats how you like to use the game. It just seems a bit limited to me when you could do the same in IRC for free.
Now my comment on ninja salvaging in lo-sec was quite frank, and meant without sarcasm. I would love to see some stories on that. It's not something I would embark on at the moment with my limited game experience, I need to keep the variables a bit simpler for now.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.13 16:23:00 -
[402]
Originally by: Mulligan Basti Now my comment on ninja salvaging in lo-sec was quite frank, and meant without sarcasm.
I'm not sure why one would want to; there are too few mission runners in lowsec. Too much work for too little reward...
However, if I were going to try this, I would have two ships available. One would be a covops for probing, and the other would be a dedicated ninja salvage frigate (all speed and agility, salvagers in all the highslots, with just enough cap to run everything at once for "just long enough"). I'd do it in a clone with no implants, and expect to get blown up regularly, so cheap mods everywhere: meta 0 or cheapest named everywhere.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.13 18:04:00 -
[403]
You can actually make decent money salvaging in lowsec with all the t2 wrecks if you look hard enough.
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False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.13 18:46:00 -
[404]
one last try for the thick skulled: it doesn't matter what the rules are or if its a game, finding joy in the misery of others is despicable. This game differs completely from roleplaying games. In RPGs, your opponent isn't a real, live human being and I dare say that your enjoyment isn't the misery you're causing, it's the freedom to cause it without consequence to the make-believe victims.
No one yet has explained how this is any different from real life bullying. Just because it takes place in the context of a game doesn't mean it isn't happening. Many of us played dodge ball as kids in school. Many of us got to experience bullying in the context of a game. Sure the rules say you can throw things at each other; does that mean you should jack somebody in the head from 4 feet away? Or gang up on people when they fall? Or try to hurt them with the ball? No. That's just being a jerk. No rules broken and just a game, but still bullying.
While this is a game, any pain caused has a real life consequence. This is why the term "sportsmanship" was invented. You can play sports, which are "just games," and taunt your opponent or turn every tackle into a brutal, over the top event. It doesn't mean that when people get upset about it that they are "just whiners." It means that the player is a jerk who takes pleasure in having power over others, not in playing well. None of this would be half as concerning if the pleasure was simply in doing something well or craftily. Instead, the joy is "tears." There is no such item in the game... only in real life. So your claim that it's just a game is bogus, because the part you enjoy isn't in the game, its the emotion of the person your bullying.
Oh, wait, I slipped out of character--- no like griefses and thiefses. Bad people. Make mad. Add to my kill list. (by the way, is Kahega your main? Or are you just a punk alt?)
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.13 18:56:00 -
[405]
Originally by: False Face finding joy in the misery of others is despicable
I totally agree with you.
I am so going to Hell for killing that Tempest Fleet Issue last night even though he shot first. I think the only redeeming thing about me is that all my little dogs love me and may, just may, put in a good word for me. I would rather go to Doggy Heaven then People Heaven anyway.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.13 19:02:00 -
[406]
Quote: No one yet has explained how this is any different from real life bullying. Just because it takes place in the context of a game doesn't mean it isn't happening. Many of us played dodge ball as kids in school. Many of us got to experience bullying in the context of a game. Sure the rules say you can throw things at each other; does that mean you should jack somebody in the head from 4 feet away? Or gang up on people when they fall? Or try to hurt them with the ball? No. That's just being a jerk. No rules broken and just a game, but still bullying.
It's different than real life bullying because we're not breaking the rules of game, nor are we even breaking the "Spirit" of the rules of the game.
EVE is open ended enough that not too much falls under the category of "Unsportsmanlike". Aside from macroing/hacking/exploiting/personal harassment, there isn't really anything that wasn't intended for players to do.
Quote: Oh, wait, I slipped out of character--- no like griefses and thiefses. Bad people. Make mad. Add to my kill list. (by the way, is Kahega your main? Or are you just a punk alt?
I ninjasalvage in Penirgman (in Domain), periodically going to Dodixie (Sinq Laison) when doing stuff with my corp. Come visit me
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.04.13 22:35:00 -
[407]
Edited by: Nefrin Maldoes on 13/04/2009 22:35:54
Originally by: False Face No one yet has explained how this is any different from real life bullying.
Definition of Bully
Originally by: Dictionary
Noun: a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or weaker people. Verb: to act the bully toward; intimidate; domineer.
Now tell me, how is a salvage ship in your mission intimidating or domineering you?
Let's do a hypothetical:
1) You are driving down the freeway, minding your own business. Suddenly, someone you don't know and have never seen before cuts you off, almost causing you to wreck your car. You think "Golly, that sure was unpleasant" only in a much more colorful way. You continue on your way.
2) The next day, around the same time, you are driving on the same freeway, minding your own business. Suddenly, the same car from yesterday comes out of nowhere and cuts you off. The guy doesn't even bother to look at your or give you a wave, he is clearly in his own world trying to get where he needs to be.
On the next day, you are back in the same freeway around the same time, and the guy cuts you off again. And again, and again.
3) Another day, same freeway, same time. Though this time, the driver of the other car that cuts you off pulls up along side you, looks you straight in the eye, gives you the finger, and then proceeds to cut you off and laugh about it.
Breaking it down to EVE terms:
1) Is an isolated incident, there is NO BULLYING going on here, and could have been an honest mistake. Just continue on your way and quit ruffling feathers (i.e. someone beat you to the salvage, it happens).
2) Is a repeat offender, however, it's not you in particular. You just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time repeatedly (i.e. stop doing missions in large hubs where you KNOW salvagers are).
3) Is an intentional act of malice, which can be construed as harassment and/or bullying (i.e. are they harassing you in other ways? Do they initiate smack talk? Legal use of a game mechanic is not harassment).
Originally by: Horza Otho I'd like a sig of raptorjesus in a panzor tank falcon punching a mashup of Obama and Bush into a blackhole that turns out to be hillary clintons bunghole.
Serious.
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.04.13 22:43:00 -
[408]
Originally by: False Face Many of us played dodge ball as kids in school. Many of us got to experience bullying in the context of a game. Sure the rules say you can throw things at each other; does that mean you should jack somebody in the head from 4 feet away? Or gang up on people when they fall? Or try to hurt them with the ball? No. That's just being a jerk. No rules broken and just a game, but still bullying.
I was a victim of bullying in school as well, and yes, I did used to play dodge ball in gym class and get jacked in the head with a ball from less than 4 feet away. Know what I did?
I went around to all the other kids who got jacked just like me, and we nailed the jerk right back with his own medicine. After a couple of times, the "bullying" stopped.
Interesting lesson to be learned here . . . .
Originally by: Horza Otho I'd like a sig of raptorjesus in a panzor tank falcon punching a mashup of Obama and Bush into a blackhole that turns out to be hillary clintons bunghole.
Serious.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.14 11:55:00 -
[409]
Edited by: Sendraks on 14/04/2009 11:56:05
Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes Firstly, Sendraks, can you linky any actual proof to your statements in regards to the whole "who you are in RL will reflect in game" statements?
Without recourse to links, simple application of logic would suffice. Who you are will determine what you do in game. Our psyche is the biggest deciding factor in what we do in every aspect of our lives, including how we choose to spend our recreation time. If you can suggest a more significant factor, I'd be very interested to see it.
Finding peer reviewed papers will take a while and I'm not sure it is worth the effort, given the only people likely to read them are you and me.
Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes Both you and I witness people on a daily basis that are able to seperate their real life personality from a character they play. Ever watched a movie or TV show?
This isn't the same thing. I'm afraid you've missed the point.
Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes Based on your logical statements, Heath Ledger would, deep down, be a homicidal maniac who likes purple suits and Robert Englund would like to do nothing more then gut people with razor sharp knives. Excessive examples? Perhaps, but only to prove a point that many people posess the ability to seperate their core beings from something imaginary.
Again, sorry, no. This isn't a logical extension of my arguments, you've missed the point.
Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes I've also been roleplaying for several years, online and offline. While many of the characters I have portrayed do have some reflection of me in them, at times I have forced myself to play in a way that is totally contradictory to who I am. Reasons for this can include to expand my abilities as a roleplayer, or just to try something new.
Yes, I've done much the same. Even when you are playing totally contradictory to who you are, who you are is still influencing how you do that, because thats your point of reference. Also, how did you feel about that afterwards? I've played characters over the years that left me feeling rather comfortable after the game was over.
Fascinating as the roleplaying discussion is, this is not what I've been discussing (the same applies to your acting examples above). The players in question are not roleplaying, they are not pretending to be another person. They are expressing themselves through a medium of a game.
Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes This is just my arguement that -some- people can be vastly different in a game then they are in real life.
This is also my argument. Nowhere have I said that how a person behaves in game is an exact parallel to how they behave out of game (although the concept of "real life" is a misleading term in the context of this discussion). There are some here who have stated that who they are in game is who they are out of game, but they are in the minority.
It is hypocritical and disingenous for an individual to say "I'm a nice person really" when they engage in morally questionable behaviour in game. That doesn't mean they are not pleasant out of game, but there is still part of their personality which (in their recreation time) derives pleasure and satisfaction from making others suffer. Not just "blow up their stuff" but seeking to garner a negative emotional outcome.
Remember, they're not roleplayong. This is them, behind a keyboard and their avatar. The arguments which follow: "its only a game" "there is no real consequence" "its how EvE is" etc etc are just attempts to dodge responsibility/evade blame (questionable in itself) for their actions. The "I'm a nice person out of game" argument, is again just an excuse and a weak one at that.
The statement "behind the keyboard, I like to torment others for my own amusement, but away from the keyboard I'm a nice guy" doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
If you're genuinely roleplaying the bad guy, fair enough, but not many EvE-Online players do that.
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Envoy Zdrada
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.14 12:00:00 -
[410]
Never worried about bullying as a kid, I was taught at a young age a very simple lesson it went along the lined of me:"dad the kid in school hit me" dad: "did you hit him back?" Me: "no it hurt"
THUMP
Dad "well that hurt more,next time stand up fotr yourself!"
Never got bullied again, sadly kids these days are wrapped up in protective blankets and handed everything on a plate and people wonder why the worlds so screwed..
I salvage ingame not to bully you, I couldn't care that your there even, far as i'm concerned your a usefull drone that not only shoots the mobs for me but latter politely buys the rigs off me :)
My last corp tryed to pass a "do not enter other peoples missions" rule, threatening members with 1mil isk fine or banned from corp ops or expulsion.. needles to say I instantly quit the corp, as this rule was only made due to corps fear that they would be war deced :P (hmm wonder if any mercs are tempted to except a contract to war dec them anyway)
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EpicFailTroll
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Posted - 2009.04.14 13:19:00 -
[411]
Very interesting. There has been the beginning of a shift in public opinion about the "it's just a game" thing. More and more people come forward with well put arguments about how this justification of ingame negative interactions, is garbage and does not make sense. In a year or so, i believe we'll see vigilante gangs, that will hunt griefers for the sake of it. Until now, there has been very few, if at all, because there is no incentive to do so (isk, system control, standings, whatever). But since pilots are growing richer -they need less regular isk income-, and more fed up of the general scumbag attitude, they might go vigilante just for the sake of it.
As of now, what is the point of going against "bullies"? they'll play the docking game, or just log an alt, and they'll laugh at efforts deployed to get revenge. That's why it doesn't happen.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.14 15:20:00 -
[412]
Originally by: Envoy Zdrada I salvage ingame not to bully you, I couldn't care that your there even, far as i'm concerned your a usefull drone that not only shoots the mobs for me but latter politely buys the rigs off me :)
I think this is what most salvagers do and why I have no problem with it as an activity. I also can't understand why anyone would get het up about someone quietly salvaging space junk in the background anymore than I can understand someone getting het up about another player having mined all "their" veld belts in a syste,
But then there is a world of difference between a player, like you, who goes about their business with the intended end result of making isk and another whose intended end result is rather more meta-gaming in nature.
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Nouva MacGyver
Caldari MacGyver Communications
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Posted - 2009.04.14 19:17:00 -
[413]
Originally by: Mintala Arana I'm not sure why one would want to; there are too few mission runners in lowsec. Too much work for too little reward...
I know this doesn't directly concern the topic at hand (ninja-salvaging), but if you have a nice group going along with you on the low-sec adventure, you could turn it into a nice ninja-salvaging AND ninja-ganking opportunity. Use the battleground to your advantage, so to speak. It's low sec, anything goes. You have the opportunity, use it; kill him/her/them, and take his/her/their loot too, and there that'll be part of your profits. Also, it's a matter of just knowing where to look/research on a good low-sec system to catch mission runners in.
As for "too much work for too little reward", I do believe it's perceptual to the individual and situational on the field so it's open to interpretation :)
Ever since I've helped myself along with the scanning lessons picked up from the original post/poster, I've learnt to generally tell when a signature I'm picking up is possibly that of a mission runner. I do agree with you having a cov ops pilot while scanning in low-sec is extremely advantageous if not absolutely required. Meanwhile, if it can be helped the ninja-gankers/salvagers should also be fitted with and stay in cloak until the prober has picked up a scent and gains more intel on the situation.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.14 20:17:00 -
[414]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll But since pilots are growing richer -they need less regular isk income-, and more fed up of the general scumbag attitude, they might go vigilante just for the sake of it.
As of now, what is the point of going against "bullies"? they'll play the docking game, or just log an alt, and they'll laugh at efforts deployed to get revenge. That's why it doesn't happen.
This vigilante crap you talk of will never happen. Heck I know a guy who has been killing mission runners in the same three systems for about 7 months now. One would think those mission runners would learn. But no. It's kind of funny and sad at the same time.
I've been doing the same stuff in this game for almost three years now. The population of the server has increased but the attitude of the players I interact with has really not changed that much. A majority are still sheep when it comes to what I do to them in their mission. They wont shoot if I decide to steal from them. They wont wardec even though there are only 5 of us in the whole corp.
I stopped playing fair in this game 3 months after I first started playing. I remember cause it was low sec with a guy in a cloaked Recon. After that I always tried to bring overwhelming force to the fight. Be it mission runner killing or Wars, I will never play fair in this game. Fair in this game does not exist to me.
And what you say bullies do, docking games, alt reppers, alt spies, I have seen so-called mission running carebears do the same. I don't know, maybe those guys just mission run on the side and are mostly bullies in game.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.14 22:59:00 -
[415]
Edited by: False Face on 14/04/2009 22:59:57 An interesting article I think comes at this topic rather nicely. The article links at the end of it are also very interesting in relation to EVE. Psychology is definitely part of the game, because humans are involved. The good, the bad, and the in between are real, because while it's just a game, it's played by real people. And there are real life psychological consequences, whether or not any particular person feels that the root causes are appropriate or reasonable. Online versions of this behavior are incredibly aggravating precisely because you can't really do anything about it. The perpetrator never feels the long term consequence of their actions; they just change characters. If these kinds of behavior were rewarded with a punch in the face, it would stop pretty fast.
Playing with all of the actions the game universe has to offer is part of the fun. Learning how to counter it is also part of the fun. Preying on the weak is delightfully Darwinian, but the end result is a highly predacious environment. If there weren't an industry/science/trade aspect to the game, it would be fine. But there is and such things require a degree of stability to be successful. No doubt that is the underlying reason for hisec. Which is all I've ever wanted: hisec that is actually secure. Lowsec and nosec are the places where the only rules are the ones you make (or break). That's how it should be. Screwing with people to elicit anger is both childish and stupid and should be avoided by anyone with an ounce of self respect, BUT if you want to do it in lowsec, knock yourself out. At least there people can fight back without interference.
Traidor Disloyal, it's difficult to fight back when you know the other guy has backup waiting. Your point is valid though: maybe we should bring backup too. Except if you're not in a corp. Maybe that's the bottom line for CCP, forced interaction. Which would be a shame, cause some people are just loners by nature.
Yes. I'm an Alt. You're pretty friggin' smart. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.14 23:50:00 -
[416]
Hisec isn't secure, it's just a bit more secure than lowsec
Quote: Screwing with people to elicit anger is both childish and stupid and should be avoided by anyone with an ounce of self respect
If the people in question are idiots throwing tantrums over Internet Spaceships then I feel no compassion for them.
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2009.04.15 04:48:00 -
[417]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Hisec isn't secure, it's just a bit more secure than lowsec
Quote: Screwing with people to elicit anger is both childish and stupid and should be avoided by anyone with an ounce of self respect
If the people in question are idiots throwing tantrums over Internet Spaceships then I feel no compassion for them.
You don't have to do anything to elict anger as people get all upset and start calling people names/swearing over normal in game activities.
The childishness that is being referred to above centres heavily on the carebear portion of the population.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.15 05:03:00 -
[418]
Originally by: Power Sauce
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Hisec isn't secure, it's just a bit more secure than lowsec
Quote: Screwing with people to elicit anger is both childish and stupid and should be avoided by anyone with an ounce of self respect
If the people in question are idiots throwing tantrums over Internet Spaceships then I feel no compassion for them.
You don't have to do anything to elict anger as people get all upset and start calling people names/swearing over normal in game activities.
The childishness that is being referred to above centres heavily on the carebear portion of the population.
True. I operate in radio silence or drum up a friendly conversation in local with people who know me. It's usually the mission runner that starts the nasty name-calling. I even have chatlogs to back this up if you want to see them.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.15 15:01:00 -
[419]
Originally by: False Face Traidor Disloyal, it's difficult to fight back when you know the other guy has backup waiting. Your point is valid though: maybe we should bring backup too. Except if you're not in a corp. Maybe that's the bottom line for CCP, forced interaction. Which would be a shame, cause some people are just loners by nature.
I'm a worse case scenario kind of guy. I always assume the target has backup. I always keep local up. I always have a way to know when my target has fellow corp members in system. If local spikes with hostiles I will either kill the target fast or try to get out of Dodge. I always assume the target knows what he is doing until he shows me otherwise. And I try to have a way to get my fat ass out of trouble when I have to.
When I first started playing this game (not with this character) back in 2003 I tried to play has a loner. It didn't work then and it doesn't really work now. You can get away with being a solo player in WoW (I have played WoW on and off since 2005 and it isn't a bad game) but I don't think that Eve is really a solo player game unless you are only a trader or industry person.
It isn't that hard to avoid people like me. The people I interact with I usually only interact with once. That is if they aren't stupid or looking for revenge. I do what I do in this game because I enjoy it. It hit me a long time ago that I don't really care what people think about me. I am what I am. I am not going to change just because someone doesn't like how I play an internet space game within the rules of that game.
I really do feel that after a certain amount of time in game people should be kicked out of NPC corporations and join a player one. My main reasoning for this is that I can not seek vengeance against a person who has besmirched my honor when that person is in an NPC corp. It's kind of like hiding behind your Moms skirt.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.15 15:19:00 -
[420]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: False Face Traidor Disloyal, it's difficult to fight back when you know the other guy has backup waiting. Your point is valid though: maybe we should bring backup too. Except if you're not in a corp. Maybe that's the bottom line for CCP, forced interaction. Which would be a shame, cause some people are just loners by nature.
I'm a worse case scenario kind of guy. I always assume the target has backup. I always keep local up. I always have a way to know when my target has fellow corp members in system. If local spikes with hostiles I will either kill the target fast or try to get out of Dodge. I always assume the target knows what he is doing until he shows me otherwise. And I try to have a way to get my fat ass out of trouble when I have to.
When I first started playing this game (not with this character) back in 2003 I tried to play has a loner. It didn't work then and it doesn't really work now. You can get away with being a solo player in WoW (I have played WoW on and off since 2005 and it isn't a bad game) but I don't think that Eve is really a solo player game unless you are only a trader or industry person.
It isn't that hard to avoid people like me. The people I interact with I usually only interact with once. That is if they aren't stupid or looking for revenge. I do what I do in this game because I enjoy it. It hit me a long time ago that I don't really care what people think about me. I am what I am. I am not going to change just because someone doesn't like how I play an internet space game within the rules of that game.
I really do feel that after a certain amount of time in game people should be kicked out of NPC corporations and join a player one. My main reasoning for this is that I can not seek vengeance against a person who has besmirched my honor when that person is in an NPC corp. It's kind of like hiding behind your Moms skirt.
Interesting your above....one hand you talk about WoW, the other hand about a Internet Space game. It is known differences the between the two. Eve does not have the RPing aspects that WoW does. Not that WoW has any large amount of RPing compared to PnP or FTF RP games.
Like you statement an internet space game. How does a Internet Space game have honor to besmirch? Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.15 15:56:00 -
[421]
Originally by: BlindBleu Like you statement an internet space game. How does a Internet Space game have honor to besmirch?
I just like saying "you have besmirched my honor in my internet space game so prepare to die you s****sucking ass wipe puppy dog kicking carebear mission running mommas boy!". It just rolls off the tongue like ice cream on a hot summer day.
I don't RP, I just like to say/write besmirched. What? You got a problem with that?
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.15 16:12:00 -
[422]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: BlindBleu Like you statement an internet space game. How does a Internet Space game have honor to besmirch?
I just like saying "you have besmirched my honor in my internet space game so prepare to die you s****sucking ass wipe puppy dog kicking carebear mission running mommas boy!". It just rolls off the tongue like ice cream on a hot summer day.
I don't RP, I just like to say/write besmirched. What? You got a problem with that?
Well in a similar vein..
"My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my Besmirched. Prepare to die" Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
False Face
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Posted - 2009.04.15 17:53:00 -
[423]
It's interesting how many people quoted me out of context. Out of an entire three paragraphs you all latched on to just one thing. I wonder how many people read the article... or understood it.
All the nonsense about whinging and smack talking in local has zip to do with the underlying issues previously discussed. It's like focusing on smoke, rather than the fire generating the smoke.
In any event, I think the article makes it clear: Most of you are dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals and have no clue what empathy is or what it means. If you did, you wouldn't do it. There are lots of things in game and in RL that you COULD do, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
That's my last bit on this. Nice to see how easy it is to troll the trollers. When I get my first billion together (3/4 of the way!), Suddenly Ninjas will be first on the list I hand over to the mercs. When I go through your killboards, etc., you show remarkably few kills for 130 members. And the kills are made mainly by the same people. The number of posts on your boards, blogs, etc. are very sparse. Me thinks your member number is highly inflated with alts, etc, and the real number of members is substantially lower. For all your talk, i don't think you could withstand a full blown assault from a Merc corp with real skills. One day, I'll get to test my theory. |
Jauqs
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:23:00 -
[424]
It is also interesting that you start out with something that sounds a tad like you're taking the "moral high ground"
Originally by: False Face In any event, I think the article makes it clear: Most of you are dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals and have no clue what empathy is or what it means. If you did, you wouldn't do it. There are lots of things in game and in RL that you COULD do, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
and then come down to being one of the "dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals"
Originally by: False Face When I get my first billion together (3/4 of the way!), Suddenly Ninjas will be first on the list I hand over to the mercs. ... For all your talk, i don't think you could withstand a full blown assault from a Merc corp with real skills. One day, I'll get to test my theory.
So the only thing keeping you from attacking Suddenly Ninjas now is that you can't do it? It's not a matter of it you SHOULD do it, just if you COULD do it.
One word: hypocrite
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:26:00 -
[425]
Originally by: False Face In any event, I think the article makes it clear: Most of you are dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals and have no clue what empathy is or what it means. If you did, you wouldn't do it. There are lots of things in game and in RL that you COULD do, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
That's my last bit on this. Nice to see how easy it is to troll the trollers. When I get my first billion together (3/4 of the way!), Suddenly Ninjas will be first on the list I hand over to the mercs. When I go through your killboards, etc., you show remarkably few kills for 130 members. And the kills are made mainly by the same people. The number of posts on your boards, blogs, etc. are very sparse. Me thinks your member number is highly inflated with alts, etc, and the real number of members is substantially lower. For all your talk, i don't think you could withstand a full blown assault from a Merc corp with real skills. One day, I'll get to test my theory.
I bolded the part I loved. Another reason I love this game is that people treat me like a dumb kid. Ah, to be a dumb kid again. Even though I have the body of a 52 year old fat man (got to love them man boobs) at least I can say I have the heart of a dumb kid.
All you have is 750 million isk? Dang, you be poor. Dude do you know how it works with Mercs and the type of people you want to war dec? The ones like Suddenly Ninja laugh at your naively. Please do spend that isk on the Mercs. I'm sure the Ninja guys will get a laugh out of it. And I hear R.E.P.O. is a good outfit when it comes to mercs. They might be a bit pricey though.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.15 18:26:00 -
[426]
Originally by: False Face It's interesting how many people quoted me out of context. Out of an entire three paragraphs you all latched on to just one thing. I wonder how many people read the article... or understood it.
All the nonsense about whinging and smack talking in local has zip to do with the underlying issues previously discussed. It's like focusing on smoke, rather than the fire generating the smoke.
In any event, I think the article makes it clear: Most of you are dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals and have no clue what empathy is or what it means. If you did, you wouldn't do it. There are lots of things in game and in RL that you COULD do, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
That's my last bit on this. Nice to see how easy it is to troll the trollers. When I get my first billion together (3/4 of the way!), Suddenly Ninjas will be first on the list I hand over to the mercs. When I go through your killboards, etc., you show remarkably few kills for 130 members. And the kills are made mainly by the same people. The number of posts on your boards, blogs, etc. are very sparse. Me thinks your member number is highly inflated with alts, etc, and the real number of members is substantially lower. For all your talk, i don't think you could withstand a full blown assault from a Merc corp with real skills. One day, I'll get to test my theory.
How about posting with your real char instead of an alt? You call us 'dumb kids', insinuate that we are cowardly/bullies/whatever, but you don't have the balls to show your real 'face'.
You're doing the same thing we do-only you like to play it off as a moral high ground. What the above poster said- you're a hypocrite.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:30:00 -
[427]
Quote: That's my last bit on this. Nice to see how easy it is to troll the trollers. When I get my first billion together (3/4 of the way!), Suddenly Ninjas will be first on the list I hand over to the mercs.
You don't think people have tried that before?
Quote: When I go through your killboards, etc., you show remarkably few kills for 130 members. And the kills are made mainly by the same people.
Part of that is the KB not showing w-space kills, and part of that is that only a few of us gank actively outside of war.
Quote: The number of posts on your boards, blogs, etc. are very sparse.
The blog's updated by Tchell, who is usually too busy. Why the **** would we open our corp/alliance discussion to the public?
Quote: Me thinks your member number is highly inflated with alts, etc, and the real number of members is substantially lower. For all your talk, i don't think you could withstand a full blown assault from a Merc corp with real skills. One day, I'll get to test my theory.
We've been decced by every merc corp under the sun. Go ahead.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.15 19:38:00 -
[428]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Originally by: False Face In any event, I think the article makes it clear: Most of you are dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals and have no clue what empathy is or what it means. If you did, you wouldn't do it. There are lots of things in game and in RL that you COULD do, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
That's my last bit on this. Nice to see how easy it is to troll the trollers. When I get my first billion together (3/4 of the way!), Suddenly Ninjas will be first on the list I hand over to the mercs. When I go through your killboards, etc., you show remarkably few kills for 130 members. And the kills are made mainly by the same people. The number of posts on your boards, blogs, etc. are very sparse. Me thinks your member number is highly inflated with alts, etc, and the real number of members is substantially lower. For all your talk, i don't think you could withstand a full blown assault from a Merc corp with real skills. One day, I'll get to test my theory.
I bolded the part I loved. Another reason I love this game is that people treat me like a dumb kid. Ah, to be a dumb kid again. Even though I have the body of a 52 year old fat man (got to love them man boobs) at least I can say I have the heart of a dumb kid.
All you have is 750 million isk? Dang, you be poor. Dude do you know how it works with Mercs and the type of people you want to war dec? The ones like Suddenly Ninja laugh at your naively. Please do spend that isk on the Mercs. I'm sure the Ninja guys will get a laugh out of it. And I hear R.E.P.O. is a good outfit when it comes to mercs. They might be a bit pricey though.
We've already had REPO on us once before =)
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Sinner Anarki
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Posted - 2009.04.15 21:45:00 -
[429]
This is why I play Gallente. Almost all of our damage is drones; hence, we can have all our high-slots filled with tractors/salvagers. **** the Ninjas, do the smart thing and salvage on the go.
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EpicFailTroll
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Posted - 2009.04.15 22:19:00 -
[430]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
If the people in question are idiots throwing tantrums over Internet Spaceships then I feel no compassion for them.
Your ingame actions are aimed at creating and witnessing the irate reaction of some unknown dude. You cannot discuss your possible empathy for someone throwing a tantrum when it's precisely what you want him to do.
As EFT always says, and will say for a long time: "Internet Spaceships" = - means to an end for the griefer (uses his internet spaceship which he doesn't care about, to collect QQ) - end itself for carebears (stockpiling of virtual goods) EvE is not a game, due to asymmetric situations like above, and many others, but is now a social interaction platform. Guys like you use it for Schadenfreude, reveling in other's rage. Much like people who use online dating websites to vent off at the opposite sex whom they have problems with (men talking to women then highbrowsing and blocking them is very common. A kind of online griefing too).
Now you're all discussing why ninja salvaging is good for the game, complies by the rules and fits the general lore, and a learning experience for all parties involved. But it's not about gameplay anymore, not about gaming fun or virtual goods. It's about social interactions and how to get your kicks -in this case, Schadenfreude-
Now how about EvE provides some gameplay tools to get back at the griefers? That would mean doing something drastic to the alt system, which is an abomination in terms of gameplay. Also, change the docking system, etc
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.15 22:55:00 -
[431]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll Your ingame actions are aimed at creating and witnessing the irate reaction of some unknown dude. You cannot discuss your possible empathy for someone throwing a tantrum when it's precisely what you want him to do.
I'm going to speak only for myself (my alt, actually, but same difference) here.
I'm not a member of a corp that's part of TEARS, but I do occasionally ninja salvage. Why? To earn some ISK. Yes, it's true that I could earn more running my own missions, even if I don't salvage. But sometimes I don't feel like running a mission; maybe I only have 1/2 hour, which is usually too little time to get, run, and turn in a level 4 mission for me. But it's great for salvaging the large wrecks in an L4 or two. Or maybe I feel like practicing my scanning technique, or I want to practice some other meta-skill.
I don't give a darn if mission runners feel ownership of their wrecks; CCP has made extremely clear that there is no broken game mechanic here. You blow up a ship and you own the loot. The salvage is, by CCP's definition (and that's the only one that counts) not the property of the mission runner, but is instead free for anyone to take.
Am I amused when some mission runner starts smacking in local? Yes. But I don't respond, and I don't salvage to provoke it. I don't bully them, I don't provoke them, other than by exercising an intended game mechanic, and I don't gank them. (Though I did loot a Maelstrom that shot at me once, when CONCORD was done with it. I think he did it by mistake, to be honest; there was no conversation, no smack, no nothing. He locked me, took a shot, barely scratched me, and a minute later left in his pod.)
What do I do with the ISK I earn? Mostly, I put it into a frigate, assault ship, or cruiser, I go out to nullsec, and I get blown up and podded home. Sometimes I fly my ship home, too. (Free bonus ship! Yay!) That's way more fun than missions. :)
Overall, I would suggest that you are using an overly broad brush to paint your picture of ninja salvagers as bullies. I think there are some ninja salvagers that are bullies, but I think there are some mission runners that are bullies too. Probably quite a few more; though the percentage is likely to be similar, the total numbers of mission runners dwarf ninjas.
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Mistress Evita
Caldari Booze and Hookers
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Posted - 2009.04.16 01:58:00 -
[432]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll Now how about EvE provides some gameplay tools to get back at the griefers? That would mean doing something drastic to the alt system, which is an abomination in terms of gameplay. Also, change the docking system, etc
But there are tools. They are called "war decs", "ignore the salvager", or "shoot the salvager and dock up for 15 minutes". Maybe I missed it but write out in simple terms what you want CCP to do to change this game to handle the salvagers?
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2009.04.16 04:16:00 -
[433]
Originally by: False Face
All the nonsense about whinging and smack talking in local has zip to do with the underlying issues previously discussed. It's like focusing on smoke, rather than the fire generating the smoke.
In any event, I think the article makes it clear: Most of you are dumb kids who haven't developed a true conscience or morals and have no clue what empathy is or what it means. If you did, you wouldn't do it. There are lots of things in game and in RL that you COULD do, but that doesn't mean that you SHOULD.
I'm quoting the whinging man-baby as an example of the type of player that we don't need in eve. I bolded the dumb parts.
The reason why you have so little isk is because you're stopping to pick up the loot.
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Power Sauce
Kenzzoku
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Posted - 2009.04.16 04:17:00 -
[434]
Originally by: Mistress Evita But there are tools. They are called "war decs", "ignore the salvager", or "shoot the salvager and dock up for 15 minutes". Maybe I missed it but write out in simple terms what you want CCP to do to change this game to handle the salvagers?
You don't need a solution when there isn't a problem.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.16 06:24:00 -
[435]
Quote: # The range for scooping items from a wreck or container has been increased from 1500m to 2500m. In addition the scoop range for drones has also been increased to 2500m
From the patch notes.
Ninjalooting just became even faster.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.16 11:51:00 -
[436]
Quote: # The range for scooping items from a wreck or container has been increased from 1500m to 2500m. In addition the scoop range for drones has also been increased to 2500m
Glory Halleluiah! Rejoice in this day that EvE hath made! Praise CCP!
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:26:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Mintala Arana Overall, I would suggest that you are using an overly broad brush to paint your picture of ninja salvagers as bullies.
Agreed, I think it is very one dimensional for either side of the discussion to assume that salvagers are bullying anyone.
Simply broken down you have the following:
1) Those who are salvaging and RPing (whoever said earlier that EvE doesn't have the RPing opportunities of WoW is a world class idiot) the character. A very small minority of players do this. The player isn't seeking to offend anyone, the character might be, but deliberately annoying anyone isn't intended.
2) Those who are salvaging for the ISKies. Again, no annoyance intended, they're not seeking to provoke anyone and are likely to be on receiving end of abuse.
3) Those who are salvaging with the intent of provoking/upsetting/distressing another player. The activity is largely irrelevant, as long as it is faciliate a negative reaction from another player. ISKies gained are an incidental, they just want to annoy another person for fun and the game is the vehicle for doing this. Doesn't have to be Eve, could be any other online game, heck it doesn't even have to be a game.
The focus of the discussion is on those who fall under 3) rather than 1 or 2.
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EpicFailTroll
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Posted - 2009.04.16 13:44:00 -
[438]
Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 16/04/2009 13:47:09 Edited by: EpicFailTroll on 16/04/2009 13:44:40
Originally by: Mistress Evita
Originally by: EpicFailTroll Now how about EvE provides some gameplay tools to get back at the griefers? That would mean doing something drastic to the alt system, which is an abomination in terms of gameplay. Also, change the docking system, etc
But there are tools. They are called "war decs", "ignore the salvager", or "shoot the salvager and dock up for 15 minutes". Maybe I missed it but write out in simple terms what you want CCP to do to change this game to handle the salvagers?
War dec: assuming the salvager isn't in a npc corp, he will dock up, get an alt in a npc corp, and keep on salvaging in your mission just to annoy you. Should any of your corpmates decide to help you wage war as well, the opposite party will just dock up and play alts, laughing all their way to the wrecks while you hover close to a station, not earning anything. Ignore the salvager: you lose isk, and develop resentment Shoot the salvager: you are concord'd
Maybe i missed it but how exactly can you get back at people in a game that condones simultaneous use of several completely unrelated random characters? As i said above the alt system is pathetic and generates catastrophic ingame experience. And it's not unwanted salvagers only, it's the whole griefing thing -salvaging presently being the most easy and riskless path in griefing-.
That said Sendraks is right, there are two other types of ninja salvagers. However, as he stated, the first one is very rare; as for the second, i don't believe it's a lasting type as the financial gain is scarce past a few millions skillpoints, where you can earn more. And yes we're discussing the third type, the most numerous and the most attention seeking as this thread exemplifies.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.16 14:08:00 -
[439]
EFT - While I agree with a lot of what you say, it is unarguable that many mission runners make themselves into targets for salvagers, simply through laziness and/or a mistaken belief that they are entitled to the best isk per hour return for mission running in hi-sec.
It is common knowledge that the systems in which you are most likely to run into someone salvaging your mission DS are the busy mission running hubs. The reason being that it is easy for a salvager to lob a few probes down and find a lvl4 DS worth salvaging. Mission runners whine, but don't take a sensible course of action. They usually:
a) whine to ccp/whine on the forums/whine in local b) stupidly shoot the salvager and get concorded c) ineffectually war dec the salvagers corp d) provoke the salvager with smack talk
The simplest and most effective thing to do is just leave the goddam system and go run missions elsewhere. Invariably yes, the agents are not of as high quality, but the amount of salvage you get doesn't change (nor does the bounty from rats) and if that is worth so much to the mission runner the neglible loss in ISK from LP from the lower agent quality shouldn't matter.
But many of these lazy whiny f**ks want to have access to the best agents, the most LP and ISK in hi-sec and not have to do anything for it. In many ways, they are their own victims.
Me - I'd much rather run missions off the beaten track any day, less lag for a start.
Originally by: EpicFailTroll And yes we're discussing the third type, the most numerous and the most attention seeking as this thread exemplifies.
I honestly don't believe the third type are the most numerous, but certainly they are the most noisy and will attract the most attention to themselves. It only takes a small number of players, with a horde of alts, to engage in this sort of behaviour and people become convinced there is a "griefer plague" in EvE.
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Zymzat
Gallente Dark Carnivale
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Posted - 2009.04.16 14:37:00 -
[440]
Edited by: Zymzat on 16/04/2009 14:41:03 As many have mentioned, just run missions in lower populated systems. I am farming loyalty points so I am using a high quality agent at the moment. If you feel it is worth it to mission in high populated systems (farming LP), take a Dominix, fit your highs with tractors/salvagers, and loot/salvage as you go. With decent drone/battleship skills you don't need guns in your high slots, and 600m3 cargo is half decent for loot. If some clown jumps in and is trying to beat me to loot, I just warp out and go make a sandwich or go outside and smoke a cigarette. They get bored and moveon, especially since they realize your BS has tractors/salvagers. I imagine Marauders like the Kronos are even more fun with the 40k tractor range and increased velocity.
The other day was pretty comical, some guy jumped in hoping to salvage some of my wrecks, I had pulled Damsel in Distress and was just blitzing missions for LP. I took the structure down enough to cause a spawn, and the would be ninja got nearly insta destroyed by the rats.
I get my kicks from destroying people's ships in wormhole space with corpmates, not from ninjaing people's salvage, but then again if you can't figure out how to protect your loot I suppose you get what you deserve.
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.04.16 14:39:00 -
[441]
Originally by: Sendraks
It is hypocritical and disingenous for an individual to say "I'm a nice person really" when they engage in morally questionable behaviour in game. That doesn't mean they are not pleasant out of game, but there is still part of their personality which (in their recreation time) derives pleasure and satisfaction from making others suffer. Not just "blow up their stuff" but seeking to garner a negative emotional outcome.
Remember, they're not roleplayong. This is them, behind a keyboard and their avatar. The arguments which follow: "its only a game" "there is no real consequence" "its how EvE is" etc etc are just attempts to dodge responsibility/evade blame (questionable in itself) for their actions. The "I'm a nice person out of game" argument, is again just an excuse and a weak one at that.
The statement "behind the keyboard, I like to torment others for my own amusement, but away from the keyboard I'm a nice guy" doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
Perhaps I am reading this wrong, but the two bolded statements seem like contradiction to me. For a second, let's say I agree with you that a personÆs physce does have an effect on their day to day lives, as well as their in game characters.
/startagreement
In the first bold, you agree that even though they are looking to cause suffering among others, they can still be pleasant out of game (i.e. nice).
In the second bold, you say that someone who readily admits to tormenting others in game but is otherwise a nice person doesn't "stand up to scrutiny". This to me doesn't hold true as you already stated that a person can be pleasant out of game.
/agreement
For some reason, this argument calls up the clichT image of news reportersÆ interviewer the serial killers neighbors: "He was quiet, kept to himself. He was a nice guy."
There are many facets to a human's personality that can and will be drawn upon as the situation dictates. I would be hesitant to jump to the conclusion that because someone gets enjoyment of out aggravating other players, that particular part of their personality will influence RL decisions on a daily basis.
New idea:
Arguments of physce aside, perhaps we are both looking at this from the wrong angle. You've mentioned several times in this thread about the morals of the people who ninja salvage. I think we can both agree that the description of another person's morals is completely PoV, even when applied to social morals (vice personal morals), since everyone's interpretation of the event (or law) is different.
Different interpretations will obviously affect how one's actions will occur based on their morals. Some people choose to interpret that who ever made the wreck owns it. The rule (law) has stated otherwise (CCP has said many times that salvage is a free for all, while the cargo belongs to person who made the wreck).
I see no moral dilemma, nor consider it reprehensible, in gaining access to something that has been made available to everyone, though personally I would not steal (salvaging vs. looting).
This however opens up a giant can of worms. A person living in Somilia most likely has a completly different set of morals then say, a person living in the UK.
Someone who has very little in life may use every oppurtunity to aquire what they want or need. Someone who has more then enough may choose to do what they consider "fair" (not the same as "legal"). It may be "fair" to let people who make the wrecks take the salvage as well, but it's legal for anyone else to get to it first.
Originally by: Horza Otho I'd like a sig of raptorjesus in a panzor tank falcon punching a mashup of Obama and Bush into a blackhole that turns out to be hillary clintons bunghole.
Serious.
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Sendraks
The Spice Weasels Must Flow
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Posted - 2009.04.16 15:27:00 -
[442]
Nefrin û interesting post, with some good points.
On the first issue, I donÆt think the two points contradict each other. Yes you can be a nice person outside of the game, but the statement itself ôI torment others in game, but out of it IÆm niceö doesnÆt stand up to scrutiny well.
The important thing is, you can be a nice person outside of the game, but that doesnÆt make you an all round nice person. Obviously you canÆt be, if you enjoy tormenting people through the medium of a computer game.
It is the difference between the 3 different groupings I listed in an earlier post. I think later in your post you're talking about people in group 2 but I'm talking about people in group 3.
Quote: You've mentioned several times in this thread about the morals of the people who ninja salvage.
No I havenÆt. IÆve made no moral judgements on those who engage in ninja salvaging, indeed IÆve said many times that IÆm entirely happy with it in game. The activity is not the issue here, it is largely irrelevant, as the intent to intentionally cause distress to another is the more important part.
That is unarguably morally dubious behaviour. Salvaging is just facilitating that behaviour, it does not in itself make the salvaging activity in the game morally dubious, any more than it does piracy, gate camping, scamming etc etc. Yes the outcome of those activities is that another player loses out, be it their ISK or their ship or their salvage and this has a possible side effect of the other player being annoyed. But the annoyance is not intended, nor sort, the in-game items are the sole goal. This is where the ôit is only gameö argument holds water, as the focus is purely on outcomes within the sphere of the games code. These, to me at least, fall outside of the moral judgement scope.
Activities which are not restricted to outcomes within the sphere of the games code, i.e. intentionally griefing another player (i.e intended consequence is the other player to feel aggrieved, the in game outcome doesnÆt matter) are decidedly meta activities and the game is merely a vehicle for causing distress to another. Those are activities on which we can place moral judgements.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.16 15:41:00 -
[443]
Originally by: EpicFailTroll ... Ignore the salvager: you lose isk, and develop resentment ...
This seems to demonstrate a sense of "entitlement" to me, i.e. the attitude that "I shot the ship and created the wreck, so the salvage is mine!"
So perhaps it's time for a reminder from the GMs and CCP. See here (scroll down for this one), here, and here for the full text, but here are some quotes: Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
So to be quite blunt, you are going to lose nothing that actually belongs to you when someone ninja salvages your large wrecks out from under you. If you want the additional ISK from the salvage, make arrangements to get it done during during the mission. Failing that my alt, or any other person who goes to the trouble of finding your deadspace, has every right to take that salvage for themselves.
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.04.16 16:13:00 -
[444]
Edited by: Nefrin Maldoes on 16/04/2009 16:14:46 Sendraks-
Firstly, thank you for the compliment on my post.
Secondly, I think the moral/psychological arguments about ninja salvagers are about dead.
So I'll leave you with this final thought:
I believe that both of us have valid arguements on both sides of the fence, but that we will never see eye to eye on the subject. I will continue to ninja salvage, and I hope that I will not get lumped into group 3, as for me, it is all about the salvage. Unfortunatly, an unavoidable byproduct is going to be people that feel that I am harassing them or griefing them. I cannot control this, even though it's not my intent to do so. I may even laugh at them when they start fuming at me for "stealing their salvage". I may even get enjoyment from seeing them cry.
But:
My intent is only to retrieve that salvage, nothing more.
This would be like me intending to enter a comedy club bar just to have a couple of drinks, and then then laughing at the comedians on stage as a byproduct of me being there.
I feel (or would at least like to believe) that most other salvagers out there are like me. They go for the salvage, but stay for the comedy. Granted there are the few that go for the comedy, and stay for the salvage.
I'll give you last word, Sendraks.
Originally by: Horza Otho I'd like a sig of raptorjesus in a panzor tank falcon punching a mashup of Obama and Bush into a blackhole that turns out to be hillary clintons bunghole.
Serious.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.04.16 17:00:00 -
[445]
Originally by: Sendraks
Originally by: Mintala Arana Overall, I would suggest that you are using an overly broad brush to paint your picture of ninja salvagers as bullies.
Agreed, I think it is very one dimensional for either side of the discussion to assume that salvagers are bullying anyone.
Simply broken down you have the following:
1) Those who are salvaging and RPing (whoever said earlier that EvE doesn't have the RPing opportunities of WoW is a world class idiot) the character. A very small minority of players do this. The player isn't seeking to offend anyone, the character might be, but deliberately annoying anyone isn't intended.
2) Those who are salvaging for the ISKies. Again, no annoyance intended, they're not seeking to provoke anyone and are likely to be on receiving end of abuse.
3) Those who are salvaging with the intent of provoking/upsetting/distressing another player. The activity is largely irrelevant, as long as it is faciliate a negative reaction from another player. ISKies gained are an incidental, they just want to annoy another person for fun and the game is the vehicle for doing this. Doesn't have to be Eve, could be any other online game, heck it doesn't even have to be a game.
The focus of the discussion is on those who fall under 3) rather than 1 or 2.
There is one more type:
4) Those who are salvaging and looting with the intent of provoking/upsetting/distressing a certain type of mission running player. They do this mostly for financial gain.
They scan down Battleships, Marauders, Command Ships, and Elite Battleships. They do not bother with smaller fish, unless those fish get in the way. They do this to ransom the player and once they get the ransom (or don't get the ransom) they then blow the players ship up to get the loot. Some of the time the loot can be worth billions and sometimes only a couple hundred million.
They do not do this out of spite (most of em anyway). They do this because they do not like running missions, mining, trading, manufacturing, or any of the other types of ways to make isk in game. These types of players have found it more lucrative to farm mission runners then farming missions. It takes less time to farm mission runners then missions for these players.
For myself, cause that is the only person in the world I can truly speak for, the justification I give myself when doing the above is: If the mission runner shoots at me then that means he wants to participate in PvP. So he must know what he is doing and thus I have no qualms about what happens to him or me do to the actions we both performed to get to the end point of our little confrontation.
I know people who do this and they are not role playing. So I don't think it fall under your #1.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Sinner Anarki
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:14:00 -
[446]
The only real time you're entitled to your salvage is when you get there first, or when you're in low-sec and you can instapop them. For this reason, I use a Gallente Dominix. High slots filled with tractors/salvagers. They can't tractor my kills, so I usually get there first. Keep in mind, I only do it when I actually need a rig or something, it's cheaper to build than to buy.
The thing I have to wonder is, why do some still say they do it for the isk? Most ninjas I know make less than 20m an hour. A dedicated mission runner, just running the missions and collecting the bounty while forgetting the salvage and loot can make upwards of 50-60m an hour with a pure gank-build.
Ignore them. Most of the time they're just ass-clowns looking for a cheap laugh, and the ones that aren't are generally just lazy to get their own wrecks, nothing wrong with it in that case, or they're idiots. Seriously, just blitz missions if you want a high isk/hour in high-sec.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.16 18:42:00 -
[447]
Quote: so I usually get there first.
And if he just circles you?>
Quote: The thing I have to wonder is, why do some still say they do it for the isk? Most ninjas I know make less than 20m an hour. A dedicated mission runner, just running the missions and collecting the bounty while forgetting the salvage and loot can make upwards of 50-60m an hour with a pure gank-build.
They don't do it only for isk. I do it for the same reason I do anything in a game
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Sinner Greed
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:04:00 -
[448]
Rarely a problem if he circles me. It's still roughly a 50/50 split, and if he's stupid enough to orbit, despite logical reasoning (Oddly it doesn't always apply), there's only a 45% chance that he'll get his salvagers active before mine, and if he is stupid enough to just orbit me, he kills his profits since I'll usually just stop tractoring stuff in and start popping my wrecks before he can get to them. Either way, I still make more ISK just based on the mission bounties and mission rewards. If he's stupid enough to stick around then, he deserves the 0 isk he gets from it, and I just switch to a gank-build and make isk faster while choking him off from my salvages.
I seriously think they should just remove wrecks altogether and make rigs built out of mats. It'd remove the argument altogether and deal with the whole stupid ninja-thing altogether. Also, remove jet-cans. They're annoying and cause lag.
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:08:00 -
[449]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: so I usually get there first.
And if he just circles you?>
Quote: The thing I have to wonder is, why do some still say they do it for the isk? Most ninjas I know make less than 20m an hour. A dedicated mission runner, just running the missions and collecting the bounty while forgetting the salvage and loot can make upwards of 50-60m an hour with a pure gank-build.
They don't do it only for isk. I do it for the same reason I do anything in a game
For Schadenfreude? Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:45:00 -
[450]
Quote: Rarely a problem if he circles me. It's still roughly a 50/50 split, and if he's stupid enough to orbit, despite logical reasoning (Oddly it doesn't always apply), there's only a 45% chance that he'll get his salvagers active before mine, and if he is stupid enough to just orbit me, he kills his profits since I'll usually just stop tractoring stuff in and start popping my wrecks before he can get to them. Either way,
No halfway decent ninja will let you get half the wrecks. He's faster than you, and he's more agile than you, and he probably has better skills/salvage equipment than you.
Also, I doubt he cares if you're going to sacrifice the loot AND the salvage. Most ninjas I've met enjoy it when you pop the wrecks.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.16 20:56:00 -
[451]
Originally by: Sinner Greed Rarely a problem if he circles me.
Actually, I think the point was that the ninja may just go around you to get to the wreck, not that he might orbit you. Here's how that works:
Your ninja is in some quick little frigate like a Vigil that's fitted for max speed, so he'll do somewhere around 1800 m/s at full tilt. If the wreck is at the edge of your tractor range, it's going to take you 30 seconds to get it in range of your salvagers. It's going to take the ninja about 8 seconds from a dead stop to get within salvaging range of that same wreck, considering you're kindly pulling it toward him. So he orbits it and gets two full cycles and the start of a third before you're even able to activate your salvagers.
Popping wrecks? As far as I'm concerned, sure, go ahead. I've already spent most of the time it takes me to ninja a mission (the scan time) at the point where you decide to do that. I'll get the odd cycle in, and that means I'll get something for my trouble. You won't.
As for the rest, well, I don't know any of the fine folks at CCP personally, but I'm pretty sure they like the way the mini-profession of salvaging works today, and they like the player interaction that results. They don't see anything as being broken, so I don't think they're going to get rid of salvage any time soon.
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Sinner Greed
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:05:00 -
[452]
Edited by: Sinner Greed on 16/04/2009 21:09:48 I could honestly care less if I lose out on isk. It's a god damn game. Who cares? Besides, I still make more isk than the ninja salvager anyway. With my gank-build of a Rail-mega I use, I usually leave my wrecks anyway. It takes me about 30-seconds to salvage them including tractor-time, 5 seconds to pop a Serpent Cruiser worth the same amount as a trit bar. Meaning I lose nothing from popping the wrecks, and since I can instapop wrecks, odds are the ninja doesn't get anything either. I could care less whether I lose money or not. I just want to make their lives a little poorer. They want to grief me, go ahead. I don't care. Just as long as you don't make too much money off it either.
There is also the fact that if he does go around me to get to the wrecks, I'll just shoot at two different things at different sides and let him go for one or the other, either way I get one. But again, I rarely worry about wrecks anyway, they're worthless when you kill fast enough and don't need any rigs.
Seriously, if you want salvages, just ask. I'll be more than happy to let you take all mine. No joke. Just follow me around and take it all. No sense in going after someone that actually wants the wrecks when you can tag along with someone that doesn't need em.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:14:00 -
[453]
Quote: I could care less whether I lose money or not. I just want to make their lives a little poorer. They want to grief me, go ahead. I don't care. Just as long as you don't make too much money off it either.
Bolding the funny part. Can't say the destruction of any spacetrash in my internets video game has "made my life a little poorer"
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Sinner Greed
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Posted - 2009.04.16 21:55:00 -
[454]
Edited by: Sinner Greed on 16/04/2009 22:01:48 Meh. That's salvageable stuff they couldn't have. Its presence made no difference to me in any case, whereas they went through the trouble of not only tracking me down, but going for the wreck. Either (ISK) they wanted it, and they lose it, or (Grief) neither of us really wanted it, in which case all I did was alleviate 1 tiny chunk of server-lag, nobody cares, and we all go our merry little ways.
I get the feeling you guys are really trying to provoke an argument here, or at least incite a reaction, as such, this is the last message I post on this thread. I'm sure you all understand the sentiment, I don't like getting caught by trolls. And I'd hate to become one ;)
Good luck, have fun, be it with ninjaing, or missioning.
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Dotard
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.17 00:14:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Sinner Greed
Seriously, if you want salvages, just ask. I'll be more than happy to let you take all mine. No joke. Just follow me around and take it all. No sense in going after someone that actually wants the wrecks when you can tag along with someone that doesn't need em.
Now where's the fun in that?
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.17 03:02:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
No halfway decent ninja will let you get half the wrecks. He's faster than you, and he's more agile than you, and he probably has better skills/salvage equipment than you.
Hmm there seems to a fairly large number of Ninja Salvager Dilettantes piloting around then....
Since they are not coming up to your standards, could you conduct training for them so they can? Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.17 04:36:00 -
[457]
Someone brighten my day and tell me CCP broke scanning trying to placate the crybaby WH explorers.
=== This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.18 04:35:00 -
[458]
Quote:
Hmm there seems to a fairly large number of Ninja Salvager Dilettantes piloting around then....
Since they are not coming up to your standards, could you conduct training for them so they can?
I've actually been tempted. I've heard stories of some very bad ninjas.
Quote:
Someone brighten my day and tell me CCP broke scanning trying to placate the crybaby WH explorers.
works fine for me.
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Sir Zzang
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.04.18 08:49:00 -
[459]
Originally by: Bullageddon Someone brighten my day and tell me CCP broke scanning trying to placate the crybaby WH explorers.
Works fine too, hell it's even better to bookmark now scanned ship and go back to station for your hi-end salvager :) _ :D! |
Caleb Fury
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Posted - 2009.04.29 23:03:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Sir Zzang
Originally by: Bullageddon Someone brighten my day and tell me CCP broke scanning trying to placate the crybaby WH explorers.
Works fine too, hell it's even better to bookmark now scanned ship and go back to station for your hi-end salvager :)
I can vouch for this. One really cool thing me and some buddies do, is I will be the dedicated scanner and find the prospects. Once I do, I will jettison the bookmark and pass it out. While they are looting and salvaging, I will continue probing the system. We will do this for awhile and at the end, gather it all together and split the proceeds. I have a grand master plan tho. Simultaneous multi-system looting. Mwuahahahaa!!
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.29 23:27:00 -
[461]
Great guide.
Salvaging is a profession. Much like mining, mission running and piracy. It's a legitimate, PLANNED FOR mechanic by CCP. Some players like to annoy you or call it 'ninja salvaging', just cause, hell, anything with ninja in it sounds cooler. Just look: ninja gerbils. Already, 100x more awesome.
That said, again, salvaging is a profession. Those players have every right to the salvage in any system as you do to killing NPC's, or someone else to mining asteroids.
If you try to hate on them for doing a legal, CCP endorsed activity, you deserve the ridicule and scrutiny attached to you.
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.04.30 02:01:00 -
[462]
FYI, Scanning is currently bugged. Adding workaround to the top of the guide.
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Caroll Yanaki
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Posted - 2009.04.30 14:57:00 -
[463]
It's a role-playing game and everyone has to play a role of his choosing. It's the first thing people should understand. And a great deal of people in this game don't understand that. That's why they whine. Or do they? Perhaps this is their role in this game.
So I have a role too.
My character's name is Caroll Yanaki. I'm a hybrid. Engineer and Mission Runner. I run missions in Motsu. I don't have alts. I'm from Bulgaria. My role is to play this game both for helping people and to earn faction standings which will make me popular across the empire I reside in and it will open every single agent as well. I have been training skills for an year already just to be able to work with the most elite agents I can get. Because they give me most money and most Loyalty Points. Half of my time I spend to contribute to my Corp and my mates with whatever I can. Therefore I need all the salvage and all the asteroids out there which are available. That's how I get my kick in this game. I like to make my mates feel good by helping them. And I know they will do the same for me. That's how I earn respect in this game. I mind my own business. I respect other people's privacy, ownership and hard work. I have never stolen anything from anybody. Both in RL and EVE. I don't care what CCP says about the salvage materials. I need them all, because I both make ISK and help my Corpmates by building rigs. Therefore I consider each and every ninja salvager a person who makes all my hard work and trained skills, as well as game time for which I pay with real money, a waste of time. And since I don't get into other people's privacy, I demand to be treated from other people the same way. I have been ninjaed, I have been even baited by a character, who blew my ship up. Why did I get blown up? Because I shot the guy who was stealing my loot. Why did I shoot him? Because I am a normal human being. And every normal human being should stand up and defend his property. Not run. I never whine in local. I might challenge and joke you, but I will not whine. And I will not congratulate you as well. Because, again, I'm a normal human being. And whenever I get the chance, I will stand and fight you. I will try to use all the resources available in this game to fight you. If I can't beat you, I will call for help. Because, again, I'm a normal human being. And normal human beings don't just stand there, doing nothing. At one point, they have enough and they have to draw the line. Who are you to deny me the access to the most rewarding agents in the game? Who are you to make me run to lesser agents just to be on the safe spot? Who are you to tell me to swallow it and to accept the fact that everyone can scan me and try to steal from me? Who are you to call me a carebear? Do you know me? What business do you have with me? Did I make your life miserable? Do I tell you how to live your life and where to go in this universe? If other people's misery in this game is the one thing that makes you happy, I really feel sorry for you. People will never love you. If they are weaker than you, they will fear you. And if they are stronger than you, they will ignore you, because you are a lesser man. And you will never earn a real respect. Never. I know you will laugh at me and you will tell me I'm talking nonsense, but deep down inside you know what I'm talking about. One day you will be alone. And I will not run. I will remain where I think I belong.
You all have your roles and your kicks. This is my role and my kick.
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Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.30 15:10:00 -
[464]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki ... words ....
All fine and dandy.
That other player that just took your salvage? His role is a salavager. He cleans up the messes left by others in this war-torn galaxy. He needs that salvage to make money, and according to CONCORD, DED, and the laws of the individual Empires, the salvage left in space belongs to nobody. This is his chosen career. This is how he decides to play.
So he finds salvage wherever he can. Your mission? Possible. It's still salvage. It still belongs to nobody. That player knows the laws of this universe, and knows his rights. He starts collecting that salvage. And then you what, start berrating and threatening to blow him out of the sky? When you have absolutely no legal basis for doing so? Saying that it's somehow 'yours'?
Please, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding who's in the right and who's in the wrong in this scenario. Your being little better than a pirate, trying to threaten and coerce a player out of his hard work and earnings. Greedy, selfish, and most definitely wrong.
Where are you any different than that pirate who locks you down at a losec gate and calls for a ransom? How are you NOT becoming just like the criminals and thugs you so dispise?
That salvager, BY LAW (in game of course), is not a thief. He's a hardworking pod pilot doing a dirty job that needs done. Just because some pirate comes up to you, takes your ore can that you spent the last hour mining, and says it's his ... does that mean it is?
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.04.30 15:25:00 -
[465]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki It's a role-playing game and everyone has to play a role of his choosing. >wall of text<
You're a carebear "pirate".
And a bad one at that. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Amarr No Applicable Corporation
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Posted - 2009.04.30 15:29:00 -
[466]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki It's a role-playing game and everyone has to play a role of his choosing. >wall of text<
You're a carebear "pirate".
And a bad one at that.
That's just an unnatural combination of words if I've ever seen one. Hahahahah ....
Posts by Ruze Ahkor'Murkon and Ruze |
BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.30 15:43:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Bullageddon
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki It's a role-playing game and everyone has to play a role of his choosing. >wall of text<
You're a carebear "pirate".
And a bad one at that.
Paraphrase quote from "Roger Rabbit" "I'm not bad, I'm just piloted that way." Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Dedalus77
Junkyard Dogs Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.04.30 17:17:00 -
[468]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki
I don't care what CCP says about the salvage materials. I need them all...
So just because you "need" it, that makes you entitled to it? I don't think so buddy, this is EVE, not national socialism.
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.04.30 19:25:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki <snipppage>
You all have your roles and your kicks. This is my role and my kick.
The word has been used here Schadenfreude"It's a German term for "shameful joy", taking pleasure in the suffering of others"...also researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem...
If you prepared to fight with them.
Shoot/blow up all wrecks that do not contain any loot.
Use your salvager(s) on any wrecks containing loot. You will get the salvage parts and the loot will appear in a container flagged as yours.
If they loot the container they will be red flagged for you.
Think of this as a form of PvP training. You will lose alot of ships, but you will get better at it, so they will lose more ships... Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.01 01:51:00 -
[470]
Originally by: BlindBleu
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki <snipppage>
You all have your roles and your kicks. This is my role and my kick.
The word has been used here Schadenfreude"It's a German term for "shameful joy", taking pleasure in the suffering of others"...also researchers have found that people with low self-esteem are more likely to feel schadenfreude than are people who have high self-esteem...
If you prepared to fight with them.
Shoot/blow up all wrecks that do not contain any loot.
Use your salvager(s) on any wrecks containing loot. You will get the salvage parts and the loot will appear in a container flagged as yours.
If they loot the container they will be red flagged for you.
Think of this as a form of PvP training. You will lose alot of ships, but you will get better at it, so they will lose more ships...
Yes, by all means, please please please do what the quoted says.
Any salvager knows to go for wrecks with loot on it first, thus losing the MR even more money if they decide to blow up wrecks.
As for me taking things and going flashy.. yeah, shoot me. I'll learn my lsesson. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
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Imertu Solientai
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.01 15:40:00 -
[471]
Bump, because this guide needs to be up at the top. Very helpful.
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Medelock
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.01 21:23:00 -
[472]
For all the people saying the filters are all kinds of broken... yes, they are buggy sometimes where they show weird results until you resave the filter or show all, but the main change isn't a bug as far as I can tell.
Patch notes said they fixed the scan filters, which I originally thought was odd as they worked fine for me. Playing with it since the patch, I realized they made it a lot harder to filter just the specific ship type you want. With low signal strengths, the only thing you can filter is one of the major categories, as in whether it is a ship, a drone, or an anomaly. Beyond that, you need to get a signal strength of at least 25% that lets you see what class of ship something is before the filter will filter those dots in or out.
Right now, if you're using an old filter for just, say, battleships, sometimes a dot will suddenly disappear as you start to close in on it. This would be due to it being a frigate or industrial or whatever else. It'll reappear when you change back to show all. What I've done so stuff doesn't disappear is make a filter that just includes every ship so I can at least tell what it is that I didn't want to scan down and ignore it (yay new ignore result function).
I've discussed this with people in the ninja channel and they have confirmed this is what is happening, don't think Kahega has been there for those discussions though.
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Roger Coger
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Posted - 2009.05.05 16:34:00 -
[473]
Edited by: Roger Coger on 05/05/2009 16:34:07 Thanks for a guide, i enjoy poor carebears screaming and trying to shake me off xD
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Ice Fist
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.05.05 16:43:00 -
[474]
I attempted scanning for the first time last night on my alt. It was seriously enjoyable and I didn't find it buggy. Although if there was a bug, it would have to be false positives (i.e. the scan will finish and you'll hear the beep as if you've gotten a hit, but the scan results will be empty.) I had already figured out that when a scan completely fails that it says no scan results, but even this didn't happen. Anyway, I took it to mean that the scan was negative and moved on undeterred.
I'm really excited to keep experimenting, getting my first 100% strength hit was near euphoric lol, maybe a little overboard, but I enjoy the challenge of having to use your brain in the process of hunting someone down. As I didn't have my main near I ended up passing off my bookmarks on some other friendly ninja salvagers creating havoc in local.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.08 01:27:00 -
[475]
this shouldn't be on page 3 === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.08 19:49:00 -
[476]
Something I've noticed in scanning is at an undetermined period, the moons / stations / gates will disappear from the solar system view. They're not visible by symbol and you cannot mouse over and have their names show up any longer.
Two questions:
Does anyone know the situation which causes this to occur?
Does anyone know a 'quick fix' for getting those names to return barring logging out and back in?
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Dotard
Minmatar Chaos Coalition Chaotic Evolution
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Posted - 2009.05.09 12:02:00 -
[477]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki People will never love you.
Oh Noes!!
Meh.....They never did, so no loss there.
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Proditia
Minmatar R.T.Industrys
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Posted - 2009.05.10 02:21:00 -
[478]
For the mission runners out there, one of the best tactics I've seen is to have a designated salvager in the mission-group. I am a part-time N.S. and if I see a Dominix running all tractors/salvagers while his two Raven buddies kill NPCs, I will likely move onto another score (preferably a bot that won't even notice me, and possibly leave me his t2 drones). Granted I am not a very aggressive N-S.
Proditia
Ex Obscurus Lux lucis |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.10 05:32:00 -
[479]
That's entirely pointless.
If you circle the salvager, you can easily pick off the wrecks as he tractors them into you, as with proper maneuvering, you can get in salvage range first.
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Anluan
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Posted - 2009.05.14 18:41:00 -
[480]
Originally by: Myshella Drake
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob?
I guess the point is, your a ****ing idiot.
Oh yeah, and a thief. Face it -- all you losers trying to justify this by saying that CCP says it's 'not stealing' -- you know better. You are still capitilizing on someone elses efforts, against their will. A mission runner puts their time, effort, and isk into running a mission and you come along, safe from retaliation, and STEAL some of the fruits of their labor. **** YOU ALL, YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF THIEVES.
You are no better than the low-sec pirate s****that camp gates and shoot everyone who comes through. Bottom feeders, low-lifes, scumbags - not so much because you do the things you do, but because YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE it's OK!! that's what gets me....
Worse than a bunch of Catholics, I swear to God! :)
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:01:00 -
[481]
Oh wow, this thread just became a trillion times more amusing
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Biterno Sintaph
Gallente Suddenly Failure
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:06:00 -
[482]
Originally by: Anluan Worse than a bunch of Catholics, I swear to God!
Irony!
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:25:00 -
[483]
Ninjaguide updated with information on ganking and "Bounty ninjaing"
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.14 19:43:00 -
[484]
Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 19:45:43
Originally by: Anluan Oh yeah, and a thief. Face it -- all you losers trying to justify this by saying that CCP says it's 'not stealing' -- you know better. You are still capitilizing on someone elses efforts, against their will. A mission runner puts their time, effort, and isk into running a mission and you come along, safe from retaliation, and STEAL some of the fruits of their labor. **** YOU ALL, YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF THIEVES.
You are no better than the low-sec pirate s****that camp gates and shoot everyone who comes through. Bottom feeders, low-lifes, scumbags - not so much because you do the things you do, but because YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE it's OK!! that's what gets me....
Wow ... you must have a been a patron of our services recently. However, know this, there is no effort to running missions. Zero. Except for maybe the poor 10-day old noob that can bearly tank Gurista Fail-frigs in his Ibis ... there is zero skill or effort placed into fitting the godly-drake fit and going afk whilst eating a sandwich in RL. Let's be realistic here, I don't know how many times I've seen auto-mission farmers with no one at the helm. You're argument is fail, your reasoning is fail - you sir, are the embodiment of fail. Go ahead and hurl insults - because at the end of the day .... it's all your capable of.
Oh, and my favorite, go ahead and pop all of the wrecks ... I'll make sure you pop every last one .... cause if I am not getting them, neither are you. ________________________________________________
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2009.05.14 20:51:00 -
[485]
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki ... words ...
He cleans up the messes left by others in this war-torn galaxy.
He's a hardworking pod pilot doing a dirty job that needs done.
Ok, plankton, did it ever occur to you that no mess is going to be left if the missioner salvages his own wrecks??
Did it ever occur to you that the dirty job is already being done by the one who created the dirty job to begin with??
All you morons have to do is ask the missioner if it is alright to salvage their wrecks, if they say no, then move on.
If the missioner is not in the area, then yes, the wrecks are anyone's, but if they return in a salvage ship, then common courtesy dictates you leave the area.
This isn't about Galactic rules or laws, it is about treating other players with fairness and respect.
The "parasite salvager" rationalizations all dance around this respect/fairness issue, hiding behind game mechanics.
Why don't you just tell it like it is? "I'm a lazy, parsitic scavenger who has no regard or respect for mission runners. I'll be damned if I'll ask permission to salvage other players wrecks, because they might say, "no, thank you, I plan to do it myself", then I'd have to go somewhere else."
I've had salvagers ask for my permission to salvage my wrecks when I was a noob ratting. I said "sure, just let me loot them first." Now why, can all you bi-sci-fi ninja parasites tell me, can't you simply do that?
If you assert there is no room for player respect or fairness in your version of Eve, then fine. But don't give me these bogus rationalizations that what you do isn't odious, obnoxious, and in a real sense ripping off and taking advantage of missioner's efforts.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:00:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Ninjaguide updated with information on ganking and "Bounty ninjaing"
You're a bad man.
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:07:00 -
[487]
Originally by: Ghengis Tia
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki ... words ...
He cleans up the messes left by others in this war-torn galaxy.
He's a hardworking pod pilot doing a dirty job that needs done.
Ok, plankton, did it ever occur to you that no mess is going to be left if the missioner salvages his own wrecks??
Did it ever occur to you that the dirty job is already being done by the one who created the dirty job to begin with??
All you morons have to do is ask the missioner if it is alright to salvage their wrecks, if they say no, then move on.
If the missioner is not in the area, then yes, the wrecks are anyone's, but if they return in a salvage ship, then common courtesy dictates you leave the area.
This isn't about Galactic rules or laws, it is about treating other players with fairness and respect.
The "parasite salvager" rationalizations all dance around this respect/fairness issue, hiding behind game mechanics.
Why don't you just tell it like it is? "I'm a lazy, parsitic scavenger who has no regard or respect for mission runners. I'll be damned if I'll ask permission to salvage other players wrecks, because they might say, "no, thank you, I plan to do it myself", then I'd have to go somewhere else."
I've had salvagers ask for my permission to salvage my wrecks when I was a noob ratting. I said "sure, just let me loot them first." Now why, can all you bi-sci-fi ninja parasites tell me, can't you simply do that?
If you assert there is no room for player respect or fairness in your version of Eve, then fine. But don't give me these bogus rationalizations that what you do isn't odious, obnoxious, and in a real sense ripping off and taking advantage of missioner's efforts.
Authority does not need to be sought from the mission runner to salvage wrecks. Didn't read that in the rule book .... It has nothing to do with fairness and repect. I respect plenty in this game. I respect the skill of the that player that scatters my pod across the galaxy - cause he/she was clearly better. I won't respect your whining tho.
No ninja will ever ask your permission as, again, it's unnecessary. So if your looking for some candied version of Eve then you are sadly mistaken. Eve is a fulltime PvP game, unlike WoW where you flag for it. As soon as you undock, you are fair game. Respect is earned - never given and especially never to those that whine for it. ________________________________________________
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:15:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Lian Xander Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 19:45:43
Originally by: Anluan Oh yeah, and a thief. Face it -- all you losers trying to justify this by saying that CCP says it's 'not stealing' -- you know better. You are still capitilizing on someone elses efforts, against their will. A mission runner puts their time, effort, and isk into running a mission and you come along, safe from retaliation, and STEAL some of the fruits of their labor. **** YOU ALL, YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF THIEVES.
You are no better than the low-sec pirate s****that camp gates and shoot everyone who comes through. Bottom feeders, low-lifes, scumbags - not so much because you do the things you do, but because YOU HONESTLY BELIEVE it's OK!! that's what gets me....
Wow ... you must have a been a patron of our services recently. However, know this, there is no effort to running missions. Zero. Except for maybe the poor 10-day old noob that can bearly tank Gurista Fail-frigs in his Ibis ... there is zero skill or effort placed into fitting the godly-drake fit and going afk whilst eating a sandwich in RL. Let's be realistic here, I don't know how many times I've seen auto-mission farmers with no one at the helm. You're argument is fail, your reasoning is fail - you sir, are the embodiment of fail. Go ahead and hurl insults - because at the end of the day .... it's all your capable of.
Oh, and my favorite, go ahead and pop all of the wrecks ... I'll make sure you pop every last one .... cause if I am not getting them, neither are you.
That there is "no effort to running missions" is absurd. Do you really think anyone is going to swallow that swill? Is that your attempt at rationalizing your pathetic behavior??
If there is anyone who is "fail" in this situation, it is you and your ilk.
The whole mission system that is such a huge part of Eve requires no effort? That all the hundreds of man-weeks CCP has spent developing and refining the mission system is all meant to provide a game mechanic that requires no effort??!?
That the hundreds and hundreds of NPC corporation agents in the hundreds of stations throughout all of EVE is designed as a pathetically easy pastime that requires no effort??
You, sir, are a bona-fide nutjob, thinking for a second that any player who missions regularly finds it "effortless"'.
You contempt for other players is obvious, and I certainly see why you do what you do.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:23:00 -
[489]
Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 21:24:08 Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 21:23:10 Please tell me where the skill lies, when you can build a Drake of Navy Raven with the uber-Godly-mission tank and not have to worry about being taken out by 65+ NPC ships? Where is the skill in clicking on a red plus-mark and saying "die"? Where is the skill in that?
...My ilk? ...My ilk? (Hey, that almost looks like "milk" ... mmmm, milk)
No disrespect to CCP and the countless hours creating the missions (or those that run said missions - for without your efforts I'd have to be bored and carebear it up); however, the mission's are pretty simple when you can not die.........
Thank you for de-railing the original intent of this post with your ILK! ________________________________________________
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Ghengis Tia
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:35:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Lian Xander
Originally by: Ghengis Tia
Originally by: Ruze Ahkor'Murkon
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki ... words ...
He cleans up the messes left by others in this war-torn galaxy.
He's a hardworking pod pilot doing a dirty job that needs done.
Ok, plankton, did it ever occur to you that no mess is going to be left if the missioner salvages his own wrecks??
Did it ever occur to you that the dirty job is already being done by the one who created the dirty job to begin with??
All you morons have to do is ask the missioner if it is alright to salvage their wrecks, if they say no, then move on.
If the missioner is not in the area, then yes, the wrecks are anyone's, but if they return in a salvage ship, then common courtesy dictates you leave the area.
This isn't about Galactic rules or laws, it is about treating other players with fairness and respect.
The "parasite salvager" rationalizations all dance around this respect/fairness issue, hiding behind game mechanics.
Why don't you just tell it like it is? "I'm a lazy, parsitic scavenger who has no regard or respect for mission runners. I'll be damned if I'll ask permission to salvage other players wrecks, because they might say, "no, thank you, I plan to do it myself", then I'd have to go somewhere else."
I've had salvagers ask for my permission to salvage my wrecks when I was a noob ratting. I said "sure, just let me loot them first." Now why, can all you bi-sci-fi ninja parasites tell me, can't you simply do that?
If you assert there is no room for player respect or fairness in your version of Eve, then fine. But don't give me these bogus rationalizations that what you do isn't odious, obnoxious, and in a real sense ripping off and taking advantage of missioner's efforts.
Authority does not need to be sought from the mission runner to salvage wrecks. Didn't read that in the rule book .... It has nothing to do with fairness and repect. I respect plenty in this game. I respect the skill of the that player that scatters my pod across the galaxy - cause he/she was clearly better. I won't respect your whining tho.
No ninja will ever ask your permission as, again, it's unnecessary. So if your looking for some candied version of Eve then you are sadly mistaken. Eve is a fulltime PvP game, unlike WoW where you flag for it. As soon as you undock, you are fair game. Respect is earned - never given and especially never to those that whine for it.
Pray tell, how does a mission runner earn the respect of ninja salvagers? It is obvious you regard them as merely fish to be exploited.
You use the word "whine" as if it has some magic connotation that negates the validity of the argument. Rather than address the points made you brush it off as a "whine". How clever of you.
Your intellectual laziness matches your in-game behavior. I've never seen a pirate ask for quarter, nor give a damn about why he did what he did. He just is. So why even defend your actions if that is who you are and how you play?
And TBH, will this thread change any missioner's or any "ninja salvager's" actions in-game? Probably not, and as I look back, I can't understand why I got so worked up about this in the first place.
If the occasional confrontation with one of you guys didn't fry my arse, I probably wouldn't have had as much fun that particular night. I don't like you guys, have no respect for you (your actions don't deserve it as you might say) but there is nothing I can do about it. End of Rant.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:42:00 -
[491]
Quote:
And TBH, will this thread change any missioner's or any "ninja salvager's" actions in-game? Probably not, and as I look back, I can't understand why I got so worked up about this in the first place.
That's where your wrong. By bumping this thread, you've ensured that more people see it and thus, more ninjasalvagers
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K'uata Sayus
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Posted - 2009.05.14 21:52:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Lian Xander Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 21:24:08 Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 21:23:10 Please tell me where the skill lies, when you can build a Drake of Navy Raven with the uber-Godly-mission tank and not have to worry about being taken out by 65+ NPC ships? Where is the skill in clicking on a red plus-mark and saying "die"? Where is the skill in that?
...My ilk? ...My ilk? (Hey, that almost looks like "milk" ... mmmm, milk)
No disrespect to CCP and the countless hours creating the missions (or those that run said missions - for without your efforts I'd have to be bored and carebear it up); however, the mission's are pretty simple when you can not die.........
Thank you for de-railing the original intent of this post with your ILK!
You didn't say anything about skill, you said effort. You demean the mission running part of Eve, now saying it requires no effort or skill? CCP may beg to differ with you a bit, for the basis of this entire game is skill training and putting in effort to succeed.
Your game seems to revolve around whether or not you die when you undock. No part of this game deserves any respect unless you are in a situation where you may die, right? How many times have you been in mortal danger while salvaging then? How can you have any respect for yourself by doing something that requires no skill or effort?
Don't even try to tell me ninja salvaging requires more skill and effort than missioning, and therefore is deserving of more respect, or any for that matter.
EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM. |
Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.15 00:57:00 -
[493]
Yes, you are correct - there is an initial amount of skill and effort put into running missions. I will agree with you there 100%. I know when I first started playing Eve, the missions were rough, and I indeed had to bail on quite a few. However, fast forward to today ... I jump in my mission Domi and sit and watch while I take barely any damage (that isn't repairable) and point and click ... there comes a point where the uber-tank cannot be broken by the NPC rats and then skill goes bye bye. That is what I am talking about; however, continue to fail to miss my point - gj. ________________________________________________
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Thercon Jair
Minmatar Nex Exercitus Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.05.15 05:02:00 -
[494]
*scratches his head* I don't know about you, but, something strikes me as illogical:
Someone mentioned salvaging doesn't criminally flag you because the wreck belongs to the entity (be it player or NPC) who lost it. Going after that logic the loot inside the wreck would of course also belong to the entity whose ship was destroyed, yet, for looting you get a criminal flag towards the person/corp that destroyed said ship.
Now, my logic tells me that this approach is not very logic. So either looting and salvaging a wreck should flag you, or none of both.
In my opinion, both should get you flagged. Why? It would make ninja-salvaging interesting for both parties. The ratter has the chance to stop the ninja salvager (with the downside that he too can get shot after opening fire), and ninja salvaging would afford a little more finesse as to evade the ratter catching you (shouldn't be too hard in multi-room missions, or come in when he went to change ships. If he wants to shoot you, he needs to dock again and change back to a combat ship. Plenty of time for you to get the large wrecks).
Not being able to deter you from salvaging every single wreck to your liking is a bit a stupid mechanic without any kind of logic. Again one of those well thought out ideas by CCP.
Not that I ever had any problems with ninja salvagers, I'm not stupid and masochistic enough (because of lag) to run missions in the big hubs.
But in the end this mechanic is even against CCPs own "law" that nothing in eve is entirely safe. And ninja salvaging is as the victim cannot do anything to stop you. Real men do it the hard way: fly Minmatar! |
Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.15 09:36:00 -
[495]
Originally by: Thercon Jair But in the end this mechanic is even against CCPs own "law" that nothing in eve is entirely safe. And ninja salvaging is as the victim cannot do anything to stop you.
Yes you can. Fly a drone boat (or even marauder) and salvage while you go. If you have some reflexes you can sit there and have a laugh while the ninja gets next to nothing.
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Anluan
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Posted - 2009.05.15 13:07:00 -
[496]
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
Originally by: Thercon Jair But in the end this mechanic is even against CCPs own "law" that nothing in eve is entirely safe. And ninja salvaging is as the victim cannot do anything to stop you.
Yes you can. Fly a drone boat (or even marauder) and salvage while you go. If you have some reflexes you can sit there and have a laugh while the ninja gets next to nothing.
How are you supposed to be nimble enough to outmaneuver a frigate in a battleship or battlecruiser? A marauder maybe, because of the range bonus on tractors, but what about all those mission runners who cant fly marauders?
Salvaging while you run the mission doesn't stop the 'ninjasalvagers' -- AND, it drags the mission time out considerably. It takes MUCH longer to finish a mission that way than it does to go back and get your salvager after clearing out the npcs.
The name 'ninjasalvager' is ludicrous. Ninjas, after all, were warriors - these salvagers are petty thieves who can only do what they do because they cannot be killed for it. Ninjas were supposed to be invisible, many 'ninjasalvagers' dont even have enough respect to try to hide what they are doing. I don't get ripped off by you fools very often, but when I do, what inevitably ****es me off is not so much that you do what you do, but that you can do it with impunity. The ******ed 'answer' that we can run missions in low-sec to avoid this problem is ludicrous, because of course it's so much easier/safer to run missions in low-sec!
No, unfortunately, the problem is with CCP and the ridiculous concept that the person who created the wreck does not own the salvage. The best solution is to simply put a timer on the wreck, after 60 minutes or so it can become public property.
'Ninjasalvaging' is stealing, however you try to spin it. All we want is the option of blowing you to bits for stealing from us. Maybe then you would ask first? Is it really so damn hard to show a little common courtesy? You might be surprised how many of us dont want the salvage anyway.
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Anluan
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Posted - 2009.05.15 13:13:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Lian Xander
Authority does not need to be sought from the mission runner to salvage wrecks. Didn't read that in the rule book .... It has nothing to do with fairness and repect. I respect plenty in this game. I respect the skill of the that player that scatters my pod across the galaxy - cause he/she was clearly better. I won't respect your whining tho.
No ninja will ever ask your permission as, again, it's unnecessary. So if your looking for some candied version of Eve then you are sadly mistaken. Eve is a fulltime PvP game, unlike WoW where you flag for it. As soon as you undock, you are fair game. Respect is earned - never given and especially never to those that whine for it.
You sir, are full of it. YOU are the one looking for the candied version of Eve. YOU are the one who wants everything handed to him on a silver platter. You say you respect the skill of a player who pods you, and yet you (apparently) are a 'ninjasalvager', a profession which can only exsist because Concord protects you from being podded.
This is as stupid an argument as someone insisting that the earth is only 10k years old, regardless of all evidence to the contrary.
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Anluan
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Posted - 2009.05.15 13:26:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Lian Xander Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 21:24:08 Edited by: Lian Xander on 14/05/2009 21:23:10 Please tell me where the skill lies, when you can build a Drake of Navy Raven with the uber-Godly-mission tank and not have to worry about being taken out by 65+ NPC ships? Where is the skill in clicking on a red plus-mark and saying "die"? Where is the skill in that?
...My ilk? ...My ilk? (Hey, that almost looks like "milk" ... mmmm, milk)
No disrespect to CCP and the countless hours creating the missions (or those that run said missions - for without your efforts I'd have to be bored and carebear it up); however, the mission's are pretty simple when you can not die.........
Thank you for de-railing the original intent of this post with your ILK!
More drivel from the mouth of babes.
When you can create one of your 'ninjasalvagers' with what, 10 hours of training in a new char? Where is the skill in THAT?
It takes months of training to build a good mission runner. Especially one where you can 'afk mission', and hundreds of millions of ISK. The only way to 'perma-tank' a raven is with a deadspace booster, and last I checked, the cheap ones that could do the job were a billion isk or so, and the good ones 3-4 billion. Only the foolish afk mission in a ship like that. But you can 'ninjasalvage' in a noobship with 10 hours of training.
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.15 13:47:00 -
[499]
^^ WOW!! Someone has apparently crossed the thin line between fantasy and reality. Seriously, if you get that ****ed about this, then your problem obviously resides out of game.
To be honest, I skipped most of you post, TLDR.... However, I will say this. CCP rules state that salvage has no ownership. Nuff said. See ya in mission sometime. ________________________________________________
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Tatsa
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.05.15 14:01:00 -
[500]
If it wasn't for ninja salvagers I wouldn't be salvaging now on a second account on m laptop, as such, when I sit down and feel like it I earn absurd amounts of isk. However, they also made me move systems, and as such my new agent hands out way more LP than before due to proximity to low sec, and I make a fortune in selling faction stuff hahah.
Incidentally, all this thread does is prove ninja salvagers intentions of griefing but whatever, thanks for opening my eyes to a more profitable world :-D |
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.15 19:16:00 -
[501]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 15/05/2009 19:21:06
Quote: etc etc etc Now, my logic tells me that this approach is not very logic. So either looting and salvaging a wreck should flag you, or none of both.
You missed the point. My point was just that; that that point of view was illogical. "Ownership" is arbitrary. In the ingame sense, "Owning" the loot means that the faction you're missioning grants you ownership of the loot as part of the mission contract.
Quote: Not being able to deter you from salvaging every single wreck to your liking is a bit a stupid mechanic without any kind of logic. Again one of those well thought out ideas by CCP.
Salvage is not loot. Salvage belongs to no one. It's not a case of a missionrunner defending his stuff, it's a case of a missionrunner wanting to come back to a juicy wreck field and salvage it, then getting ****y because someone else is harvesting it first.
Quote: How are you supposed to be nimble enough to outmaneuver a frigate in a battleship or battlecruiser? A marauder maybe, because of the range bonus on tractors, but what about all those mission runners who cant fly marauders?
Salvaging while you run the mission doesn't stop the 'ninjasalvagers' -- AND, it drags the mission time out considerably. It takes MUCH longer to finish a mission that way than it does to go back and get your salvager after clearing out the npcs.
You're playing as a salvager competing against another salvager. You have the option of using a tractor beam dessie, but you don't have to. Have friends/an alt in a fast frigate specialized for salvaging and you can compete with the ninjasalvager.
Quote: ...Ninjas, after all, were warriors - these salvagers are petty thieves who can only do what they do because they cannot be killed for it. ... I don't get ripped off by you fools very often, but when I do, what inevitably ****es me off is not so much that you do what you do, but that you can do it with impunity. The ******ed 'answer' that we can run missions in low-sec to avoid this problem is ludicrous, because of course it's so much easier/safer to run missions in low-sec!
Close. Ninjas were assassins, but I digress.
Salvage isn't yours. Wrecks aren't yours. You want to, then, take aggressive action on someone merely because you dislike him. If you think that people should be able to pewpew people that annoy them, I'd ask CCP to give my corp killrights on you. Of course, that wont happen because it's hisec. If you don't like the rules of hisec (or the fact that the rules apply to you as well as others), then move to lowsec.
If you're afraid of lowsec, then admit it and accept the fact that hisec has its limitations.
Quote: 'Ninjasalvaging' is stealing, however you try to spin it. All we want is the option of blowing you to bits for stealing from us. Maybe then you would ask first? Is it really so damn hard to show a little common courtesy? You might be surprised how many of us dont want the salvage anyway.
It's internet spaceships. A videogame. No, I don't give two ****s about your ingame wellbeing, even if the salvage WAS yours.
Quote: It takes months of training to build a good mission runner etc etc
And it takes awhile to make a GOOD ninjasalvager too. You need good scanning skills, good salvaging skills and the most agile ship you can. To maximize profit, you also need a good gankship too (BS or T2 cruiser) to retaliate while looting.
Just like missionrunning, ninjaing can be done with low SP and low investment, but is most profitable if you invest time/etc. into it. Also, something tells me he was talking about player skills, not SP.
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Kiva Aharan
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Posted - 2009.05.15 19:26:00 -
[502]
Originally by: Anluan No, unfortunately, the problem is with CCP and the ridiculous concept that the person who created the wreck does not own the salvage. The best solution is to simply put a timer on the wreck, after 60 minutes or so it can become public property.
CCP made the rules the way they are for a reason. They were well aware of what they were doing. There isn't a solution needed on the part of the game developers because there is no problem with the game. The problem exists in your attitude. It is better to deal with the reality of the situation instead of complaining and moralizing.
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.15 19:59:00 -
[503]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 15/05/2009 19:21:06
Quote: etc etc etc <snippage>
Interesting but same old same old.
Any wreck that is not empty belongs to the pilot that wrecked the ship.[FACT]
Empty wrecks are salvage and belong to who ever gets there to use a salvager on it.[FACT]
Right...Wrong....Moral....Ethical....etc That is the current ruling of the CCP devs for right now.
One interesting variation, blow up all empty wrecks, run your salvager on the wrecks that are not empty. This will create a container with the contents of the wreck, any one other than you that takes from that container is flagged Red and can be engaged in combat.
If you chose this variation be prepared for PvP. Remember that if you are able to pod the Ninja Salvager, he will go and get a gank ship he believes will allow him to pod you. If you do not succeed in podding the Ninja Salvager, but yourself are podded, welcome to the Eve PvP school of hard knocks.
Remember that he may have to go thru all the acceleration gates to get back to where he was podded. If he does have to go thru the accel gates, have some fleet mates waiting at the exits from those accel gates. Nothing like coming in what you hope is a gank ship and see 4+ ships waiting for the accel warp bubble to cease so they can pod the Ninja Salvager again.
But if you not prepared to engage in prolonged PvP engagement, warp out and dock until the aggression timer runs out. Yes you may not complete the mission but he will not be able to return the podding favor and not get any loot/salvage from you.
As for Podding from Kahega Amielden by Battle Clinic stats he has 28 LOSSES to 13 KILLS.
For an interesting information look up the kills stats of some of the Ninja Salvager's that have posted here. Battleclinic has some information on this. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.15 22:41:00 -
[504]
Originally by: BlindBleu
Any wreck that is not empty belongs to the pilot that wrecked the ship.[FACT]
Wrong. Any wreck belongs to no one, whether it has loot on it or not.
If I salvage the wreck of a mission runner and it is not empty, I simply salvage the wreck, and the loot is left in a can for the mission runner. No aggression flag is received.
At no point in time do wrecks belong to anyone.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.16 03:00:00 -
[505]
Originally by: BlindBleu
As for Podding from Kahega Amielden by Battle Clinic stats he has 28 LOSSES to 13 KILLS. For an interesting information look up the kills stats of some of the Ninja Salvager's that have posted here. Battleclinic has some information on this.
So? We have members who PVP, but we are not primarily a PVP corp.
Kills are just a bonus, but it's not our primary goal. Go find something else to falsely call us out on, we'll be right here to fire back.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.16 04:20:00 -
[506]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 16/05/2009 04:26:03
Quote:
As for Podding from Kahega Amielden by Battle Clinic stats he has 28 LOSSES to 13 KILLS. For an interesting information look up the kills stats of some of the Ninja Salvager's that have posted here. Battleclinic has some information on this.
Look here folks. I'm about to make a stats warrior look stupid and petty.
For one, most of my PVP experience is as a FC/Scout in a covert ops (And I don't fit a TP for KB whoring).
Two, I rat/explore/etc. sometimes in lowsec, which naturally makes me a target...unlike some people in this thread who just sit in hisec until they go out looking for targets.
And thirdly... KB stats tell you as much about a player as the smell of his droppings, especially when your point of reference is battleclinic which relies on people uploading everything.
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Arran Ramir
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Posted - 2009.05.16 06:26:00 -
[507]
I dont care that people ninjaloot, or scram, gank grief whatever, hence this is EvE a open Sandbox where the players "try" too make the rules..
But what i find hillarious, is that those who commit these acts, try too sqeeze themselfs into denying that they are just petty thiefs, skilless spineless weasels who just dont have balls enough too get themselfs into real fighting, and have too steal of babies, carebears and bully players, too feel themself better..
Personally i coudnt care less what people try to do, Hence everyone outside my corp i see as potiention KB clients, and any chance i get too blow up your ship, i wil blow it up with a big smile on my face, and any emo rage directed towards me afterwards, is recieved with a smile, knowing i ruined your day big time..
The thing i am mostly annoyed in EvE is the smacktalk and the cryin....errm whining of both sides on each other, but on the other hand, it makes up for some hillarious reading at times :P
To me, Less talk, more explosions!!!
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.16 07:28:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Maxwell Terallis
Originally by: BlindBleu
Any wreck that is not empty belongs to the pilot that wrecked the ship.[FACT]
Wrong. Any wreck belongs to no one, whether it has loot on it or not.
If I salvage the wreck of a mission runner and it is not empty, I simply salvage the wreck, and the loot is left in a can for the mission runner. No aggression flag is received.
At no point in time do wrecks belong to anyone.
You are most correct sirrah. But as earlier discussed in this thread, very few NS have your skills/experience. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.16 07:31:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 16/05/2009 04:26:03
Quote:
As for Podding from Kahega Amielden by Battle Clinic stats he has 28 LOSSES to 13 KILLS. For an interesting information look up the kills stats of some of the Ninja Salvager's that have posted here. Battleclinic has some information on this.
Look here folks. I'm about to make a stats warrior look stupid and petty.
For one, most of my PVP experience is as a FC/Scout in a covert ops (And I don't fit a TP for KB whoring).
Two, I rat/explore/etc. sometimes in lowsec, which naturally makes me a target...unlike some people in this thread who just sit in hisec until they go out looking for targets.
And thirdly... KB stats tell you as much about a player as the smell of his droppings, especially when your point of reference is battleclinic which relies on people uploading everything.
I believe it is related to API.
Note Battle Clinic shows I won a fight that I lost. Nor have I consciously updated any information.
Got to love that disinformation. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.16 15:46:00 -
[510]
Originally by: Arran Ramir But what i find hillarious, is that those who commit these acts, try too sqeeze themselfs into denying that they are just petty thiefs, skilless spineless weasels who just dont have balls enough too get themselfs into real fighting, and have too steal of babies, carebears and bully players, too feel themself better.. Quote:
Originally by: Arran Ramir
The thing i am mostly annoyed in EvE is the smacktalk and the cryin....errm whining of both sides on each other, but on the other hand, it makes up for some hillarious reading at times :P
Holy contradiction Batman....
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.16 16:08:00 -
[511]
..... and the post still goes on. ________________________________________________
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Elithria
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.16 21:16:00 -
[512]
Originally by: Arran Ramir
The thing i am mostly annoyed in EvE is the smacktalk and the cryin....errm whining of both sides on each other, but on the other hand, it makes up for some hillarious reading at times :P
You are right your post was funny.
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Angel Mortalitas
Amarr Star Phukkers Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.05.17 00:09:00 -
[513]
Originally by: Lian Xander
...My ilk? ...My ilk? (Hey, that almost looks like "milk" ... mmmm, milk)
Goes well with cookies
Anyhoo, nice guide Kahega. Very useful. I and a mate will likely be putting your advice in to action very soon
As my "main" main is a full blown MR I can say that ninjas are (no offence meant) a minor annoyance but I understand that they are trying to make a living in their chosen profession or just plain trying to have fun. So what if they "steal" your wrecks....they weren't yours to begin with, otherwise a ninja would be immediately flagged but they aren't. So deal with it.
I'll tell you the one thing I absolutely love about ninjas...when one gets stupid/cokky (stupid censor), or just plain baiting, and loot a can. Here is a perfect opportunity to go grab my PvP rig and have a little fun. Mission running can be so mind-numbingly boring that I often welcome the distraction and if I do pop their ship I never smack them in local either. Haha, I even often return their loot as thanks for the fun if they want it.
Mission runners, ninja-ing (is that a word?) is a legitimate game mechanic so find ways to beat it. Everything in this game has a counter, you just need to find.
Or you could do like I'm going to do and join the fun.
Cya out there
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.05.24 20:53:00 -
[514]
Just glanced at Tuesday's patch notes, still not seeing anything about fixing the scan bug that has been going on for awhile. Has anyone heard anything at all about when/if this is going to get fixed? ------------------------------------------------ SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES! |
Fortune Favoured
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Posted - 2009.05.25 02:41:00 -
[515]
tl;dr
However I'm going to apply my newly acquired tech 4 device to the thread and milk all those delicious tears into my ninja salaving ship. This should fuel me for a few years to come.
I thank you.
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Wongdong
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.25 14:19:00 -
[516]
so here goes nothing... i was bored today and read pretty much the whole damn threadbut i did get bored from reading the same thing from both sides over and over after about the middle of the 15th page i have run missions and find them extremely boring(granted they produce some nice isk flow).i have run salvaging ops running belts for quite a few jumps(usually about 40jumps frome home to back).that is boring aswell.but at the same time it is better than missioning in my eyes.until i read the op i had no idea i could use those scanning skills i have to probe out missions.(thanks to kahega there)
now to the point... i do not salvage for tears,i do it for the millions it puts in my wallet.if i can find a way to increase those millions,im not gonna let anyone stop me from doing it.whenever i salvage the belts i have had people cry to me about me taking thier wrecks,my simple reply is that they still get the loot,then i just ignore the rest of the saline coming from them and continue doing my job.eve is a competitive mmo,if i happen to get to a wreck 1st,then you're just sh!t outta luck.i have seen posts from miners in these forums crying about how other miners have come and minedTHIERrocks. that sounds to me like what alot of the missioners are saying about salvagers.as far as i can see,there is risk to the salvager in mission deadspaces: 1.being suicided by the missioner 2.the missioner leading the aggro to the salvager and gtfo to switch aggro 3.popping wrecks(<- that has to be the dumbest thing b/c no one gets anything) 4.dropping the mission and on and on and on. there is skill on both sides of the argument,anyone that says otherwise is blind.the way i see it,the more people that salvage,the lower the prices of the rigs that everyone loves so much.(i know i want lower priced rigs)
in conclusion: salvaging does have it's risk vs. reward.missioning has risk vs. reward.and everything in eve has other people competeing for the same thing you want.(as does RL) carpe diem holds true in eve as in real life.if you don't sieze the day,you're left standing at the start line and wondering why you're not getting anywhere.
/peace and be easy(no sense in having a heart attack over a game)
p.s. and to all you people paying for 2 accounts in an MMO,do you have any friends or do you just like shelling out double what i pay for the illusion of having friends?
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking |
Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.05.25 16:46:00 -
[517]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 25/05/2009 16:47:27 When popping wrecks consider if you buy rigs or not because you're just driving up the prices.
Obviously a fair few people in this thread are just griefers, if you're not in a position to do anything then ignore them and they'll lose their satisfaction.
Otherwise just beat them at their game, goad then to steal loot and find out any mates that can bring a tackler, have your own tackle fitted to surprise them, aggro the whole room then warp out, war dec them and go hunting them in the more popular mission destinations.... they'll be easy enough to find.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.25 17:14:00 -
[518]
Originally by: Nefrin Maldoes Just glanced at Tuesday's patch notes, still not seeing anything about fixing the scan bug that has been going on for awhile. Has anyone heard anything at all about when/if this is going to get fixed?
No idea, but there are workarounds, so it's not a huge deal.
Anyway, I think I'll go troll Halada's mining guide and complain about ninjaminers mining the asteroids as I was ratting. |
Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.25 23:23:00 -
[519]
To add to the list of CCP Devs stating there is nothing wrong or broken with wreck salvaging....
CCP Mitnal just posted today:
Originally by: "CCP Mitnal"
Our policy on this is extremely clear, if it were considering changing it, we will inform the player base.
Sslvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing.
This was the final post of a locked thread where a mission runner was complaining about salvagers stealing wrecks. You can see the locked thread with Mitnal's post at the end here.
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Publius Arens
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Posted - 2009.05.25 23:27:00 -
[520]
I've only gotten "ninja looted" a couple of times. I don't play on the weekends very often. The experience reminded me of a time in which I was donating time at the local senior rec center, we were playing chess on one of those built in table chessboards, with the pieces provided by the center. Somebody's grandchild ran by and stole the white bishop, I was playing white. I suppose I didn't technically own the piece, which is why the child said he didn't have to give it back. And you can't go and hit somebody's kid, so he can just do whatever he wants, especially since it annoys somebody who is just trying to play their fun game.
cheers
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Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.25 23:33:00 -
[521]
Originally by: Publius Arens I've only gotten "ninja looted" a couple of times. I don't play on the weekends very often. The experience reminded me of a time in which I was donating time at the local senior rec center, we were playing chess on one of those built in table chessboards, with the pieces provided by the center. Somebody's grandchild ran by and stole the white bishop, I was playing white. I suppose I didn't technically own the piece, which is why the child said he didn't have to give it back. And you can't go and hit somebody's kid, so he can just do whatever he wants, especially since it annoys somebody who is just trying to play their fun game.
cheers
Not quite.... If you were ninja looted, then the person stole from one of your cans, and they were flagged for attack to you and your corporation. You could have done something about that.
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Xzar Fyrarr
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.05.26 03:38:00 -
[522]
Nice guide. Kind of wish I read all of this before, I taught myself for the most part how to hunt down mission runners and what to do if they attack back etc etc.
But indeed, nice guide.
From a fellow ninja salvager - I salute you.
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 04:01:00 -
[523]
This thing is still going?
To the mission runners who are still complaining about how it is unfair that people come into their mission and take the salvage from the wreaks: To bad, get over it. I will probe down mission runners because I find it entertaining. I will loot and salvage the wreaks because I can. You have no way of stopping me other then shooting the wreaks or taking a ahot at me. And if by chance the mission runner decides to try and pop my ship I will loot and salvage the mission runners wreak. Sometimes the stuff out of the mission runners wreak is worth more then the salvage from the mission itself.
If you don't like what I do then war dec me. I am fairly certain I will survive your onslaught.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Anda Chiyo
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Posted - 2009.05.26 06:29:00 -
[524]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal This thing is still going?
To the mission runners who are still complaining about how it is unfair that people come into their mission and take the salvage from the wreaks: To bad, get over it. I will probe down mission runners because I find it entertaining. I will loot and salvage the wreaks because I can. You have no way of stopping me other then shooting the wreaks or taking a ahot at me. And if by chance the mission runner decides to try and pop my ship I will loot and salvage the mission runners wreak. Sometimes the stuff out of the mission runners wreak is worth more then the salvage from the mission itself.
If you don't like what I do then war dec me. I am fairly certain I will survive your onslaught.
This statement and others like it give mission runners one viable solution: shoot the wrecks. Especially considering some ninja salvager's here have already commented on how it's a "stupid thing to do".
To the mission runner - advice on how to deal w/ ninja salvager's.
1. As said before, shoot the wrecks. It'll take you no more than a couple of minutes or so extra to do. Consider it cleanup on your part and get on with the next mission (or whatever else you're doing). There is debate on whether it is more profitable to just churn missions vs. missioning and looting anyhow. Some are more profitable, some less.
2. Do not "feed" the ninja by engaging him or her in any manner. Don't rant in local. Don't convo him. Don't accept convos from him (might want to turn auto-reject convo option on) Don't eve mail him. Save for popping the wrecks, ignore his presence.
* To reaffirm the above, if it happens to you, just shrug it off, pop the wrecks and move on. The ninja may follow you around for a bit to see if he can get a rise out of you (that's his entertainment factor, again don't "feed" him). If you don't feed him in either isk or ego, he'll eventually get bored and move on to other targets. |
Shinjo Bajahnhosuu
Rule of Five
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Posted - 2009.05.26 09:31:00 -
[525]
Quote: Just look: ninja gerbils. Already, 100x more awesome.
The winner! This right here made 18 pages worthwhile ...
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 14:32:00 -
[526]
Originally by: Anda Chiyo Edited by: Anda Chiyo on 26/05/2009 06:39:18 Edited by: Anda Chiyo on 26/05/2009 06:38:54
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal This thing is still going?
To the mission runners who are still complaining about how it is unfair that people come into their mission and take the salvage from the wreaks: To bad, get over it. I will probe down mission runners because I find it entertaining. I will loot and salvage the wreaks because I can. You have no way of stopping me other then shooting the wreaks or taking a shot at me. And if by chance the mission runner decides to try and pop my ship I will loot and salvage the mission runners wreak. Sometimes the stuff out of the mission runners wreak is worth more then the salvage from the mission itself.
If you don't like what I do then war dec me. I am fairly certain I will survive your onslaught.
This statement and others like it give mission runners one viable solution: shoot the wrecks. Especially considering some ninja salvager's here have already commented on how it's a "stupid thing to do".
Go for it. Shoot the wreaks cause I don't care. You will miss one or maybe you wont. If you care about the salvage then you loose money. If you don't care about the salvage but do care about the loot you are still loosing money. And if you don't care about either loot or salvage then you are wasting time. It doesn't matter to me. My entertainment is showing mission runners that High Sec is not safe, it's just safer.
And I don't care about mission hubs. I do know where a lot of level 4 mission agents reside that are not in mission hubs. And I can still find mission runners in those less populated systems. So, by all means, run. I can still find you where ever you go.
I use to be a mission runner. I know how you think. And one of you, during the night, will shoot at me for getting between you and your precious loot/salvage.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Cynical Rise
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Posted - 2009.05.26 15:47:00 -
[527]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
Go for it. Shoot the wreaks cause I don't care. You will miss one or maybe you wont. If you care about the salvage then you loose money. If you don't care about the salvage but do care about the loot you are still loosing money. And if you don't care about either loot or salvage then you are wasting time. It doesn't matter to me. My entertainment is showing mission runners that High Sec is not safe, it's just safer.
And I don't care about mission hubs. I do know where a lot of level 4 mission agents reside that are not in mission hubs. And I can still find mission runners in those less populated systems. So, by all means, run. I can still find you where ever you go.
I use to be a mission runner. I know how you think. And one of you, during the night, will shoot at me for getting between you and your precious loot/salvage.
Wow people get really worked up on this. Either by being judgmental, or acting as if they are showing some kind of hidden truth to mission runners. It's just a game, remember that.
Ninja Salvaging is just scavenging. Nothing wrong with it, it's just how they choose to play So you can feed them your tears and rage, nothings going to change. Now before someone jumps to an assumption over how I play, I don't ninja salvage. I make my own wrecks and salvage them. However I'm not going to spill tears if someone pops in to scavenge. It's bound to happen at some point, just deal with it and move on.
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Anda Chiyo
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Posted - 2009.05.26 17:00:00 -
[528]
Edited by: Anda Chiyo on 26/05/2009 17:05:36
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal Go for it. Shoot the wreaks cause I don't care. You will miss one or maybe you wont. If you care about the salvage then you loose money. If you don't care about the salvage but do care about the loot you are still loosing money. And if you don't care about either loot or salvage then you are wasting time. It doesn't matter to me. My entertainment is showing mission runners that High Sec is not safe, it's just safer.
And I don't care about mission hubs. I do know where a lot of level 4 mission agents reside that are not in mission hubs. And I can still find mission runners in those less populated systems. So, by all means, run. I can still find you where ever you go.
I use to be a mission runner. I know how you think. And one of you, during the night, will shoot at me for getting between you and your precious loot/salvage.
OOO ... scary scary
But thanks, this proves my point. As I said before, many a time it is more profitable not to loot anyway. Following my advice (it really seems you don't want them following my advice... wonder why... hmm), the mission runner wastes a whopping 1-2 minutes popping the wrecks and then getting on with things. You're expending a bit more time than that in seeking him out.
Originally by: Cynical Rise Ninja Salvaging is just scavenging. Nothing wrong with it, it's just how they choose to play So you can feed them your tears and rage, nothings going to change. Now before someone jumps to an assumption over how I play, I don't ninja salvage. I make my own wrecks and salvage them. However I'm not going to spill tears if someone pops in to scavenge. It's bound to happen at some point, just deal with it and move on.
^This^
But I still say pop the wrecks before you move on
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Traidor Disloyal
Minmatar Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.05.26 18:33:00 -
[529]
Originally by: Anda Chiyo As I said before, many a time it is more profitable not to loot anyway. Following my advice (it really seems you don't want them following my advice... wonder why... hmm), the mission runner wastes a whopping 1-2 minutes popping the wrecks and then getting on with things.
I guess I need to be more specific. I don't care what the mission runner does. Shoot the wreaks, don't shoot the wreaks. It's all good to me.
Originally by: Anda Chiyo You're expending a bit more time than that in seeking him out. edit:Plus now you're not making any isk at all (the runner is still making isk), and not getting the satisfaction of upsetting said runner. Plus there is satisfaction in popping them as the ninja goes for them. It's quite entertaining. Sort of like playing an old fashioned game of pinball.
I like finding mission runners. They like running missions. Who said I needed to make isk? I have a character that has run missions for three years, never in a mission hub, always in a system far far away from a mission hub. And not once during that time did anyone come into the missions. I have more then enough isk to enjoy myself that I have gotten from the mission running character and from salvaging mission runners.
************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Aris Starshatter
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Posted - 2009.05.26 19:14:00 -
[530]
I'm a relatively new player to Eve, and I've had my mission ninja salvaged a few times. I don't mind it, what I do mind is the ones who take my mission item and try to sell it to me. That forces me to have to quit the mission and I lose standing, that's griefing.
Oh well, that's life I guess
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Maxwell Terallis
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Posted - 2009.05.26 22:26:00 -
[531]
Originally by: Aris Starshatter I'm a relatively new player to Eve, and I've had my mission ninja salvaged a few times. I don't mind it, what I do mind is the ones who take my mission item and try to sell it to me. That forces me to have to quit the mission and I lose standing, that's griefing.
Oh well, that's life I guess
Mis-information FTW.
A person taking your mission item and then trying to sell it back to you isn't griefing. When that person takes the item, they are now flagged for you and your corp to attack them. You can then take care of the problem yourself. Your options then are:
- Find the thief (He is a thief if he's taking items from a can) and blow him up
- Pay the ransom
- Quit the mission
No griefing is occurring.
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Mulura
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Posted - 2009.05.27 03:30:00 -
[532]
Originally by: Maxwell Terallis
Originally by: Aris Starshatter I'm a relatively new player to Eve, and I've had my mission ninja salvaged a few times. I don't mind it, what I do mind is the ones who take my mission item and try to sell it to me. That forces me to have to quit the mission and I lose standing, that's griefing.
Oh well, that's life I guess
Mis-information FTW.
A person taking your mission item and then trying to sell it back to you isn't griefing. When that person takes the item, they are now flagged for you and your corp to attack them. You can then take care of the problem yourself. Your options then are:
- Find the thief (He is a thief if he's taking items from a can) and blow him up
- Pay the ransom
- Quit the mission
No griefing is occurring.
You can also move on to the next agent and come back the next day ( after DT -at another time). Need a Better Sig. |
Mara Rinn
|
Posted - 2009.05.27 05:00:00 -
[533]
Originally by: Mulura You can also move on to the next agent and come back the next day ( after DT -at another time).
This is not always possible.
Once a mission is flagged as completed, the mission space will not be respawned after DT. So for example if you are running Mordus Folly, the mission is marked as completed after you have blown up every ship in the first wave (3 frigates, 5 cruisers, 3 sequestors, Mammoth and Gigamar). The item you have to return to the agent is dropped by the last ship in the first wave.
If the item disappears (someone smartbombs the container accidentally, or a thief nabs it and tries to sell it to you), your options are now either (a) pay the ransom, or (b) fail the mission.
In the long term, failing a mission doesn't really hurt. Don't pay the ransom, unless you're in the bad books with your agent already.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.27 23:16:00 -
[534]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Anyway, I think I'll go troll Halada's mining guide and complain about ninjaminers mining the asteroids as I was ratting.
I hate when they do that! === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
Matari Wraith
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Posted - 2009.05.28 05:10:00 -
[535]
As an 18 day old character focusing on learning skills my options for acquiring isk were rather limited. Running and salvaging level 1 missions in my thrasher, breaking rocks in my burst, hauling npc trade goods in my wreathe or risking my small sum of isk on the market does not even come close to the isk I was able to pull in from just half a day of skill training and a few days of ninja salvaging.
Yes, ninja salvaging is stealing. However, CONCORD has no laws against salvaging wrecks in space and therefore capsuleers will continue to take advantage of this opportunity.
This is where facts stop entering into it and emotions begin to get involved.
~~ Some things I have seen in my brief ninja salvaging experience:
-I have gone from a complete noob when it comes to operating probes to reasonably proficient.
-I've learned how to use the directional scanner to keep tabs on the mission runner in an attempt to avoid detection(to counter his ninja-salvage counters)
-The most effective counter to the ninja-salvager is to salvage as you go (forcing me to warp in prematurely to beat you to the wrecks) and/or pop the wrecks before I get to them. -Warping out to give me aggro or simply tanking the remaining ships until I leave (read until I warp to my nearby bm and watch my scanner for the MR to finish and leave to swap ships) are not effective counters.
The complaining other ninja salvagers have done in this thread about popping wrecks just being wasteful/pointless etc underlines the effectiveness of this counter.
My favorite moment: "Rescuing" freedom fighters (not mission objective) from the wreck of a fellow Republic ship.
My most "yikes, wtf" moment: A battleship CONCORDing himself. Be sure when you go to pop wrecks that you are not running another character's mission!
As I now have enough isk to buy all my advanced learning books and a full set of implants I'm retiring from the ninja salvage profession and pursuing other aspects of Eve. Thanks go to Kahega for the effort he put into his guide and a special thanks go to the Amarr mission runners of Sasoutikh for their (involuntary) donations to my cause.
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Omega87
Caldari Griefer-B-Gone Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.05.28 07:51:00 -
[536]
My gripe is not with the stealing (which sucks sure, but hey it happens). My problem is that someone less than 24 hours into the game, on a trial can come and steal from me. They say "Oh wardec me " or something if you don't like what they do, but they're just throwaway alts. I think perhaps Salvage shouldn't be a trial skill. Now if someone who's been playing for 6 months or 3 years or whatever wants to come steal from me...well it still sucks, but hey like I said, it happens, deal with it somehow.
Dunno if that aspect of it bothers anyone else, Just my 2 cents. I don't think CCP is going see it the way I do given what they've said, but eventually like every fad it will taper off. Oh and Yes I expect the flood of "Cry more nub", and "lolololol fail" and "Stupid Carebear tears" ------ "Nothing ventured, nothing ganked." - Me |
Riedle
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Posted - 2009.05.28 15:39:00 -
[537]
Originally by: Caroll Yanaki I have been ninjaed, I have been even baited by a character, who blew my ship up.
I LOL'd
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.28 15:46:00 -
[538]
Quote: The complaining other ninja salvagers have done in this thread about popping wrecks just being wasteful/pointless etc underlines the effectiveness of this counter.
Explain this. If someone starts popping wrecks, I fly around to each wreck to make sure that they blow up -everything-. How do they make more ISK doing this than they would just leaving it alone?
Quote: Yes, ninja salvaging is stealing
No. The reasons why it's not have been explained multiple times.
Quote: My gripe is not with the stealing (which sucks sure, but hey it happens). My problem is that someone less than 24 hours into the game, on a trial can come and steal from me. They say "Oh wardec me " or something if you don't like what they do, but they're just throwaway alts. I think perhaps Salvage shouldn't be a trial skill. Now if someone who's been playing for 6 months or 3 years or whatever wants to come steal from me...well it still sucks, but hey like I said, it happens, deal with it somehow.
Mission in lowsec. Why do you expect total safety for yourself but demand the ability to shoot newbies at will?
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Wongdong
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.05.28 17:02:00 -
[539]
Edited by: Wongdong on 28/05/2009 17:02:37 go ahead,pop the wrecks,you wont be making the money off the loot(that i don't want)and your also helping to maintain high rig prices.think of what i do as rig market price management. my all time favorite is when i haad a mr pop his item wreck then flame me for what HE did.so i implore you,pop all your wrecks have a good day and fly safer.
edit:/bump to sticky status devs
Originally by: CCP Whisper So you're going to have to do some actual thinking |
Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.28 18:03:00 -
[540]
Edited by: Lian Xander on 28/05/2009 18:04:35 As a ninja, and one with the belief that wrecks are a free for all, I say let the carebears have their aggro on the wreck. If I salvage your wreck, let me get agression. BUT ... know this, when you are in your uber-drake setup or marauder, try hitting me. Send your drones, I can out run those too. I will gladly laugh more at your frustrations of trying to hit me while i dance around your wrecks happily doing my job ... and then post the LOL'z in the corp forum for the rest to share.
Seriously though, with "wreck aggression", all you whiney carebears are doing is bring low-sec into hi-sec. You whine and cry because you want this protective bubble of imaginary safety; however, by introducing this mechanism, all your are doing is bringing about your own demise. You won't see the solitary ninja salvager coming in to give you grief ... no, you'll see the multiple hostile ninja's in DPS ships coming in to gank you for the KM's and the lols. So it's your choice - deal with a minor annoyance, or be afraid to undock anywhere in New Eden. Think hard.
________________________________________________
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BlindBleu
Gallente Freedom-Technologies
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Posted - 2009.05.28 18:48:00 -
[541]
Everything has already been said/whined/whimpered/etc.
Lets fill this topic with similar to the above.....make those who might be interesting wade thru multiple blank pages but one line of not information....<G> Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Matari Wraith
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Posted - 2009.05.29 02:58:00 -
[542]
Edited by: Matari Wraith on 29/05/2009 02:59:24
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: The complaining other ninja salvagers have done in this thread about popping wrecks just being wasteful/pointless etc underlines the effectiveness of this counter.
Explain this. If someone starts popping wrecks, I fly around to each wreck to make sure that they blow up -everything-. How do they make more ISK doing this than they would just leaving it alone?
By "counter" i meant a tactic that discourages further ninja salvaging rather than a way to safeguard some of that "lost" salvage isk. Obviously blowing up your wrecks will not net you any more isk than leaving the wrecks to the ninja salvager but, at least for a noob like myself, catching only one or two of the large wrecks discourages me from continuing to take the time to scan down another MR with my awesome Probe frigate and astrometrics II skills.
My assumption, and perhaps where I'm wrong, was that the MR has concerns beyond maximizing their own isk/hour. If that's the only figure that matters to them then it's true popping the wrecks will gain them nothing.
Quote:
Quote: Yes, ninja salvaging is stealing
No. The reasons why it's not have been explained multiple times.
I've seen the arguments for and against but, IMHO, acquiring salvage that the mission runner would have acquired if not for my actions is stealing.
That said, I don't really understand the apparent need to deny and argue this point as this is Eve and stealing is not wrong in Eve. I will continue to steal from other players if it's the most efficient way to meet my objectives.
I'm not really looking to argue this point but rather just want to explain why I feel it is theft (and is ok).
/me shrug
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.29 03:33:00 -
[543]
Quote:
By "counter" i meant a tactic that discourages further ninja salvaging rather than a way to safeguard some of that "lost" salvage isk. Obviously blowing up your wrecks will not net you any more isk than leaving the wrecks to the ninja salvager but, at least for a noob like myself, catching only one or two of the large wrecks discourages me from continuing to take the time to scan down another MR with my awesome Probe frigate and astrometrics II skills.
My assumption, and perhaps where I'm wrong, was that the MR has concerns beyond maximizing their own isk/hour. If that's the only figure that matters to them then it's true popping the wrecks will gain them nothing.
Meh. Wreck popping has never been a factor in my, nor anyone else that I know's, salvaging motivation. We enjoy it. It conveys a sense of silent rage which is interpreted as tears.
Quote:
I'm not really looking to argue this point but rather just want to explain why I feel it is theft (and is ok).
Because since whether it's "theft" or not is only relevant in an ingame RP sense: they're stealing from the NPCs they popped.
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Muulti
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Posted - 2009.05.29 05:33:00 -
[544]
Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
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Stealnutz
Mean Angry Squirrels
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Posted - 2009.05.29 11:37:00 -
[545]
Originally by: Muulti Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
Concord usually fixes (attempted) boat-violencing of law abiding citizens.
lol at a SB killing a (proper) salvage boat
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Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.05.29 14:58:00 -
[546]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 29/05/2009 15:00:04
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Meh. Wreck popping has never been a factor in my, nor anyone else that I know's, salvaging motivation. We enjoy it. It conveys a sense of silent rage which is interpreted as tears.
The mission runner could of course be imagining the tears of the salvager.
win win ;)
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Elithria
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.29 15:43:00 -
[547]
Originally by: Muulti Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
5/10 would read again
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Antoine Roquentin
Spaceship Lullaby
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Posted - 2009.05.29 17:52:00 -
[548]
Marauders aren't worth the effort in my experience. They're much more likely to get butthurt since they fit salvagers themselves and most will either abandon the mission or go afk when they see you 'stealing' from them.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.29 18:30:00 -
[549]
I hear people say that missionrunning is more profitable a lot of the time...but really, when you factor in looting, I'm starting to question this.
After spending maybe ~20 minutes in a Serpentis mission (which has crap salvage), I easily broke 10 mil...and I expect it to get even better once MWDs are allowed in missions.
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Bullageddon
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.05.30 00:00:00 -
[550]
Originally by: Muulti Corp mate with a stealth bomber usually fixes mission/salvage ninjas :)
an SB would barely scratch my 1700m/s salvage frig. === This Space For Lease or Sale. |
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.05.31 00:29:00 -
[551]
^^ That. Good luck hitting a target that is way to fast and too far out to web ... sometimes, I wonder about the player base here. ________________________________________________
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.05.31 07:27:00 -
[552]
Originally by: Antoine Roquentin Marauders aren't worth the effort in my experience. They're much more likely to get butthurt since they fit salvagers themselves and most will either abandon the mission or go afk when they see you 'stealing' from them.
lol
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:32:00 -
[553]
Quote:
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
OH please. A big, slow marauder vs ninjastabber?
He tractors the wrecks within 10km then I move slightly closer. I can nab the loot before he can, as well as start my salvage cycles earlier...and with Salvager IIs, I'm not likely to fail a cycle.
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LarcatOfRens
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Posted - 2009.05.31 16:46:00 -
[554]
I feel like I should opine on this, being a relatively dedicated ninja salvager.
1) There is simply no better profession for a newbie. I played Eve about 2 years ago I could not stand either the boredom of mission nor the lack of real ISK rewards doing level 2s. Ninja salvaging gets me 20-50 mil an hour if I am grinding it as quickly as I can. For a 2 month old character, that is awesome.
2) We do it for the ISK, tears come second (most of us). MRs like to down play the actual ISK/hour Ninjas make, but when you factor loot in (especially if you get some Amarr Navy rat missions) it is feasible to make well over 40/hour.
3) Risk -- There are plenty of ways to lose your salvage ship. Usually, this is a fully rigged T1 frig, so you lose in the area of 30 mill uninsureable. It will happen, and even if it isn't player error, sometimes you will hit lag when a spawn comes in and get popped regardless of how much attention you are paying.
4) And to all the MRs crying that salvaging should flag... Oh god... Please... Please yes. Saves me the time of nabbing loot and gives me a way to aggro when there aren't any wrecks with loot in them :)
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Antoine Roquentin
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Posted - 2009.06.01 02:08:00 -
[555]
Originally by: temponita You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
Butthurt marauder pilot spotted!
You missed the point.
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Yozul
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Posted - 2009.06.01 03:12:00 -
[556]
I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
You're making salvagers a more hostile group of people by popping cans.
Actually, I find it pretty hilarious when people fly off into an impotent rage at me when I'm not doing anything wrong... I think I'll go add salvaging and astrometrics to my training queue now. |
Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.01 20:31:00 -
[557]
Originally by: Yozul I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
Popping wrecks is not counter productive, it keeps the ninja from getting isk.
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Yozul
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Posted - 2009.06.02 04:58:00 -
[558]
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Yozul I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
Popping wrecks is not counter productive, it keeps the ninja from getting isk.
Your only goal is to hurt someone who's taking something that doesn't even belong to you anyway?
And you probably think that salvagers are jerks. You amuse me. |
Dodgy Past
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Posted - 2009.06.02 06:58:00 -
[559]
Originally by: Yozul Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
You're making salvagers a more hostile group of people by popping cans.
Actually, I find it pretty hilarious when people fly off into an impotent rage at me when I'm not doing anything wrong... I think I'll go add salvaging and astrometrics to my training queue now.
Nope, you don't sound like a jerk at all.
Salvaging other people's wrecks is a feature, being allowed to pop your own wrecks is a feature.
A new player could get into making a lot of isk very quickly via aiming straight for salvaging, but they could also end up wasting a lot of time if all the mission runners popped their wrecks.
Of course being a jerk is what all the cool kids do so enjoy jumping on this bandwagon.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.02 10:03:00 -
[560]
Originally by: Yozul
Originally by: Dariah Stardweller
Originally by: Yozul I'm pretty new to this game, but isn't popping cans counter productive? You're only hurting yourself and the salvagers that are just in it for the isk. Pilots that thrive on carebear tears will enjoy the proof that they've ticked you off enough that you're wasting your own time and loot just to spite them.
Popping wrecks is not counter productive, it keeps the ninja from getting isk.
Your only goal is to hurt someone who's taking something that doesn't even belong to you anyway?
And you probably think that salvagers are jerks. You amuse me.
I'm glad I amuse you
And no, my goal is to salvage and loot the wrecks myself, but if that isn't possible I will do my best not to have anyone else take it and I'd rather destroy it. If that is a problem for any ninja salvager I suggest GTFO and finds him another mission to salvage where the MR isn't so mean
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Matsif
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:01:00 -
[561]
just did my first ninja last night, and I like it I have low probe skills and am just using a probe frigate to find the MR's, then I go in in my vigil and get to ninja'ing
and the carebear tears are delicious
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AeonOfTime
Minmatar Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.06.02 14:36:00 -
[562]
As a carebear mission runner I welcome this little guide for some interesting insights into the profession. From a mission runner point of view, it is rather easy to avoid being ninja'd, as has been pointed out numerous times. Just go mission somewhere quieter.
And get some training in PvP if you want to take a shot at looters. Don't try it with your missioning skills. Don't get your 300 mil Battleship blown up for a few wrecks...
One last thing: don't shed your tears in local. They seem to enjoy that just a tad :) -- Read the captain's log at eve.aeonoftime.com The solo player's corporation - Syrkos Technologies |
Thor's Fury
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Posted - 2009.06.02 16:53:00 -
[563]
You MR need to chill out. I first learned about ninja looting by having one of my missions salvaged/looted. I can solo level 4's in Motsu(which I did for a while), but I 've gotten too bored Mission Running. Honestly probably about 65% of the missions I "ninja salvage", are ones that the MR doesn't loot or salvage themselves, and I've found a bunch of abandoned drones in the process also. When MR start shooting wrecks I don't think "Oh Noes!" because I have at least 2 other missions scanned out. You don't really hurt us by popping wrecks... you just change the wrecks we salvage(or I'll just wait till you turn in the mission to salvage it, in which case I'll also loot it for ya)
And for God's(and everyone's, including your's) sake use drones. We can find you when you don't use drones so might as well finish the mission faster. It's in both our interest for you to slam through the mission. And you just get more upset when you don't use em and we still find you.
Finally as far as to wreck "stealing" you could say the same thing about miners... They "steal" the ore that other miners could get. Just because you know where the wreck is doesn't entitle you to it...
anyhow that's my 2 cents... I love how this thread is still going...
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Lian Xander
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.02 19:19:00 -
[564]
I still say make it aggro. A fleet of ... "ninja-salvagers" that really only have 1 salvager installed and the rest is pure gank would eat a MR in a heart beat. I can guarantee you MR's that much ... keep whinning that the wrecks are "yours" and you want aggro, and you'll see more ninjas grouped up in small gank fleets. All CCP has to do is open the door ... then the rest will be in our hands. There will be no need to go into low sec at that point - we'll just bring it straight to you, and your shiney CNR's and Navy Mega's will make great salvage. ________________________________________________
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.02 21:52:00 -
[565]
Originally by: Thor's Fury When MR start shooting wrecks I don't think "Oh Noes!" because I have at least 2 other missions scanned out. You don't really hurt us by popping wrecks...
See, that's the spirit! No whining about mean MR's. Ninja salvaging is part of the game, so is blowing up your own wrecks. Let us both do what we enjoy
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.06.03 02:58:00 -
[566]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
OH please. A big, slow marauder vs ninjastabber?
He tractors the wrecks within 10km then I move slightly closer. I can nab the loot before he can, as well as start my salvage cycles earlier...and with Salvager IIs, I'm not likely to fail a cycle.
lmao true comedy! Try a Marauder with a 40km beam picking-up wrecks as they appear on scene... Like I said... you clearly "know not" what your talking about.
Ninja Salvaging with a Marauder, not likely going to happen.
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Antoine Roquentin
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:28:00 -
[567]
Originally by: temponita
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
You have clearly never "tried" with one on scene, good-luck "trying" to steal wrecks or loot from a Marauder.
OH please. A big, slow marauder vs ninjastabber?
He tractors the wrecks within 10km then I move slightly closer. I can nab the loot before he can, as well as start my salvage cycles earlier...and with Salvager IIs, I'm not likely to fail a cycle.
lmao true comedy! Try a Marauder with a 40km beam picking-up wrecks as they appear on scene... Like I said... you clearly "know not" what your talking about.
Ninja Salvaging with a Marauder, not likely going to happen.
1-2 poorly trained salvagers vs 4+ max skilled salvager IIs and the ninja's ship will be fast enough to pounce on the wrecks first as they're tractored in.
You seem to be arguing out of spite rather than to correct a falsehood. Are you upset over losing salvage?
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temponita
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Posted - 2009.06.03 03:41:00 -
[568]
Edited by: temponita on 03/06/2009 03:41:37
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
You seem to be arguing out of spite rather than to correct a falsehood. Are you upset over losing salvage?
It's more like laughing, at this stage...
This all sounds great in theory, but most of what's written here is nothing but hopes and dreams. Sure it sounds good in the forums, but in reality, it just doesn't happen.
Good for a laugh though.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 05:51:00 -
[569]
So all those times I've salvaged/looted -everything- under the nose of a marauder were all hallucinations? whatever you say
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.06.03 09:20:00 -
[570]
Originally by: temponita
inaccurate statements about Marauders vs. Ninja salvage ships
Sounds like to me that someone is trying to discourage would-be salvagers from probing out his Marauder.
Lets look at some basic facts:
1) Ninja salvaging ships can EAISILY surpass 1200m/s in a mission. You are tractoring at 1000m/s. Even if you are full speeding at the wreck, the Ninja is going to make it there first based on speed alone.
2) The Ninja's ship is built explicitly for salvaging. Salvage rigs, T2 Salvagers, and speed. Your Marauder is fitted to survive the mission your are running. I can perma run 4 T2 salvagers, my chance of salvaging the wreck is much higher then the 1 or 2 salvagers you have mounted on your Marauder
Anyone who thinks that a Marauder makes them immune to Ninja salvaging are in for a huge surprise the first time it happens. Chances are this is what happened to temponita. ------------------------------------------------ SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES! |
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Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.03 13:20:00 -
[571]
Hi, Kahega Amielden.
Please, add copyright (Tamer) and link to original russian guide which you have translated --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.03 13:21:00 -
[572]
We are do this since 25.07.2007 --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Stealnutz
Mean Angry Squirrels
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Posted - 2009.06.03 14:49:00 -
[573]
Originally by: Tamer Hi, Kahega Amielden.
Please, add copyright (Tamer) and link to original russian guide which you have translated
Your guide is terrible. Falsely accusing people of plagiarism is terrible. Go away.
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Verlai
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Posted - 2009.06.03 14:51:00 -
[574]
When I did ninja salvaging, I always liked finding Marauders because I could simply orbit them and salvage everything they tractor in until they gave up and would warp out, giving me free reign of the wrecks.
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Naomi Trucker
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Posted - 2009.06.03 16:17:00 -
[575]
Originally by: Verlai When I did ninja salvaging, I always liked finding Marauders because I could simply orbit them and salvage everything they tractor in until they gave up and would warp out, giving me free reign of the wrecks.
Also the more expensive ship the more changes there are that pilot gets butthurt about salvager. I have seen Marauder pilots waste two hours warping in and out of the mission / go afk and do all kinds of silly stuff that really gimps their isk/hour. Which of course makes it much more funny and reason to stay there for laughs even if you will not get much in the way of salvage. Currently I'm ingame orbiting some Amarr Navy Battleship that is running blockade and shooting wrecks so that the evil salvager can't get any "stolen" salvage. Always good spot to take long afk. :D I have yet to jump out from pilot that shoots wrecks, always have made my mission to make sure that the pilot shoots every single wreck before leaving.
Then again met today very nice and polite chap who initiated convo, chatted a bit and told that he wouldn't mind if I salvage and loot the mission wrecks if I wanted. (Didn't loot though until the guy was gone since you never know... :P)
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 16:26:00 -
[576]
Originally by: Tamer Hi, Kahega Amielden.
Please, add copyright (Tamer) and link to original russian guide which you have translated
I don't speak russian, and the layout of that guide (despite me being unable to read it) is absolutely nothing like my own.
Also, after running it through a translator...My suspicions are confirmed. How the hell can you think my guide was a straight translation of that one? That one's terrible; it provides virtually no information. Its owner made an attempt to update it for the new scanning system, but still tells people to go Caldari Achura for some reason.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:07:00 -
[577]
But now that I found this guide I'll be sure to train up my main for a scan boat and get my salvage alt up to using T2 salvagers
Recommendations/fittings/tips on how to make a good Gallente ninja pair highly appreciated
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Tchell Dahhn
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:16:00 -
[578]
Originally by: Tamer We are do this since 25.07.2007
Your Corp is a joke. Suddenly Ninjas owns you. Seriously. Do you have nothing better to do than accuse the Great Kahega Amielden of stealing your silly guide to what we do better than anyone else.
We're Recruiting! |
Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:19:00 -
[579]
Edited by: Tamer on 03/06/2009 17:24:53 Your "guide" and the term "Ninja" salvaging is exact, almost literal plagiarism of earlier version of our guide, placed to the specified address. To steal not well. Usually I do not visit english sites (include eve-online.com) because i am bad in english. Today i translate this topic and we was really surprised by impudent plagiarism from you.
It was linked here places: 13.8.2007 http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=7397&st=100 14.12.07 http://gs.forum24.ru/?1-5-0-00000001-000-0-0 13.08.2007 http://xsitelab.ru/forum/archive/index.php/t-1112.html and many other places before your one. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22http%3A%2F%2Feve-online.fatal.ru%2F100kk.php%22&btnG=%CF%EE%E8%F1%EA+%E2+Google&lr=&aq=f&oq=
You arrive ugly, stealing another's products and ideas and giving out them for your ones. Please observe copyright. Best regards, russian ninja salvaging church. --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Beef Strokenhoff
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:26:00 -
[580]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I don't speak russian, and the layout of that guide (despite me being unable to read it) is absolutely nothing like my own.
Confirming that Kahega doesn't have the Russian Language Implant and it's not like Babelfish or any other translator is going to be able to translate with any accuracy - your "Russian version" anyway.
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Beef Strokenhoff
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:29:00 -
[581]
Originally by: Tamer I do not visit english sites (include eve-online.com) because i am bad in english. Today i translate this topic and we was really surprised by impudent plagiarism from you.
And you think he goes around looking to steal ideas from a Russian site? It's the same argument in reverse! He doesn't speak or read your language so why (IF HE WAS GOING TO PLAGIARIZE) would he go looking on some threads he can't even understand?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:36:00 -
[582]
Quote: Your "guide" and the term "Ninja" salvaging is exact, almost literal plagiarism of earlier version of our guide, placed to the specified address. To steal not well. Usually I do not visit english sites (include eve-online.com) because i am bad in english. Today i translate this topic and we was really surprised by impudent plagiarism from you. And, you have stolen not only idea and the text, but also the name of method described.
The "Idea" of ninjasalvaging. Even if you were the first to come up with it (which, again, I heavily doubt), it does not give you alone the right to talk about it. My "text" is nothing like yours; mine actually explains things. Stealing the "name" is stupid...because even if you were the one to coin it, ti doesn't give you the sole right to use it. It's like claiming that Halada can't create a mining guide because someone else created the term "Mining".
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Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.03 17:55:00 -
[583]
If you have decided to use my idea and my name, I ask to add the information on the original in your grant only. I do not forbid to use it freely and to write about it. I ask to specify only sources, out of respect for another's work. --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Kage Toshimado
Gallente The Logistical Nightmare
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Posted - 2009.06.03 18:13:00 -
[584]
Originally by: Tamer If you have decided to use my idea and my name, I ask to add the information on the original in your grant only. I do not forbid to use it freely and to write about it. I ask to specify only sources, out of respect for another's work.
If you have decided to use the English language, I do not forbid you to use it. I only ask you to specify that you recognize in all of your work, whether written or typed, that I was using it before you. Out of respect you know?
(BTW - when the hell did he decide to use your name on anything?)
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 18:19:00 -
[585]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 03/06/2009 18:21:24
Originally by: Tamer If you have decided to use my idea and my name, I ask to add the information on the original in your grant only. I do not forbid to use it freely and to write about it. I ask to specify only sources, out of respect for another's work.
Look, lets cut the foreplay. Contact me ingame and I'll give you my real name so you can sue me
Nothing I've done constitutes anything remotely close to plagiarism, even if I -had- seen your guide before today.
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Dayanara Ryell
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.03 18:35:00 -
[586]
Gotta love Eve-Search
Looks like "Ninja Salvaging" was recognized by that name at least as far back as 18/4/07 which is a good 3 months before you made your guide. So, no, you did not come up with the name Ninja Salvaging. I think you actually stole all of the information that you have in your guide from the people in the above linked thread.
We're Recruiting! |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.03 18:38:00 -
[587]
Quick, someone contact the poster. We can sue Tamer for using the word "Ninjasalvaging" without permission!
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Stealnutz
Mean Angry Squirrels
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Posted - 2009.06.03 18:41:00 -
[588]
Originally by: Tamer If you have decided to use my idea and my name, I ask to add the information on the original in your grant only. I do not forbid to use it freely and to write about it. I ask to specify only sources, out of respect for another's work.
Are you on drugs? Seriously?
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Kage Toshimado
Gallente The Logistical Nightmare
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Posted - 2009.06.03 19:27:00 -
[589]
Originally by: Dayanara Ryell Looks like "Ninja Salvaging" was recognized by that name at least as far back as 18/4/07 which is a good 3 months before you made your guide. So, no, you did not come up with the name Ninja Salvaging.
But... but... he was the first one to use the term ninja salvaging in the Russian language! Wan't he...?!
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.06.04 05:36:00 -
[590]
Edited by: Nefrin Maldoes on 04/06/2009 05:37:33
Originally by: Tamer
you stole my Ninja! stuff . . .
I would never believe that Kahega would "steal" a ninja salvaging guide, espically one in Russian.
That being said, you want him to put your "copyright" on his guide, even though, you can't copyright any material that has to do with EVE since it's already under CCP's copyright. Anyone can put a little copyright symbol on a piece of paper (or website) and a date next to it, doesn't mean it actually means anything without proper paperwork behind it.
And if you do get offical, please let me know, because I would love to see the day when you are REALLY sued by CCP for plagirism and copyright infringment based off their scanning and salvaging guides and intellectual property.
On a side note, does anyone else see an interesting parallel here?
Tamer is accusing Kahega of "stealing" something that has his name on it, but that Tamer doesn't actually have any rights to. I hearby nominate Kahega as the "Ultimate Ninja" for having achieved ninja status both ingame and on related game website
BTW, "Ultimate Ninja" is ¬ Nefrin Maldoes, 6-3-2009! I mean 6-3-99, or was it 6-3-89 . . . ------------------------------------------------ SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES! |
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brahiem
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Posted - 2009.06.04 06:27:00 -
[591]
did my first ninja salvage today, didn't get anything out of it but I got the tears of an 03 carebear and got his paladin to shoot all those pretty angel BS wrecks
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.04 06:42:00 -
[592]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/06/2009 06:43:23
Originally by: brahiem did my first ninja salvage today, didn't get anything out of it but I got the tears of an 03 carebear and got his paladin to shoot all those pretty angel BS wrecks
It's even better when they're from 03, but an obvious bought character. I saw an 03 golem shooting torps at frig rats.
Quote:
I would never believe that Kahega would "steal" a ninja salvaging guide, espically one in Russian.
That being said, you want him to put your "copyright" on his guide, even though, you can't copyright any material that has to do with EVE since it's already under CCP's copyright.
On a side note, does anyone else see an interesting parallel here?
Tamer is accusing Kahega of "stealing" something that has his name on it, but that Tamer doesn't actually have any rights to. I hearby nominate Kahega as the "Ultimate Ninja" for having achieved ninja status both ingame and on related game website
run google translator onthe ''guide'' he linked.
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.06.04 07:17:00 -
[593]
I did run the translator on the website. Needless to say, baby jesus cried, my eyes are bleeding, and it makes me want to punch babies.
My point was that trying to copyright User Content as original content is flawed, as show in the EULA. That and laughing at someone who claims that their Ninja guide got ninja'd. ------------------------------------------------ SAN DIMAS HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL RULES! |
Hayder Neable
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.04 07:41:00 -
[594]
Originally by: Tamer If you have decided to use my idea and my name, I ask to add the information on the original in your grant only. I do not forbid to use it freely and to write about it. I ask to specify only sources, out of respect for another's work.
Wow, this is just laughable, every post you have made about it is laughable. Your guide is a quarter the length of Kahega's, you don't go anywhere near as in depth, and I find your guide, somewhat, lacking.
I appreciate the English language isn't your first language but I would really try and learn it a hell of a lot better before trying to accuse someone of plagiarism.
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sir gankalot
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Posted - 2009.06.04 15:54:00 -
[595]
Hmm, the Russian dude is proving what I have thought all along: ninja salvagers have too big an ego. They're carebears preying on carebears but don't you dare say it to their face :D
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.04 16:34:00 -
[596]
Originally by: sir gankalot Hmm, the Russian dude is proving what I have thought all along: ninja salvagers have too big an ego. They're carebears preying on carebears but don't you dare say it to their face :D
I've copyrighted the term "carebear" and I don't recall giving you permission to use it.
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brahiem
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Posted - 2009.06.04 17:08:00 -
[597]
Quote: It's even better when they're from 03, but an obvious bought character. I saw an 03 golem shooting torps at frig rats.
lol it actually was an '03 char
told him he was just wasting ISK by shooting the wrecks and he just bragged he had 5 bil, I need to find this guy in low sec soon
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Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.04 18:01:00 -
[598]
Larceny remains larceny irrespective of, in what text contains more of words --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:26:00 -
[599]
Originally by: Tamer Larceny remains larceny irrespective of, in what text contains more of words
I repeat: I can give you my contact information if you'd like to sue me |
Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:36:00 -
[600]
It is a question of your conscience and network ethics. |
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:44:00 -
[601]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 04/06/2009 19:43:52
Originally by: Tamer It is a question of your conscience and network ethics.
If you really want to believe I was inspired by the crappy guide you put up (especially when I don't speak Russian), then that's your own problem. Nothing I did even approaches plagiarism. Plagiarism is when you take someone else's work and use it as your own. For me to have plagiarized your "guide", I would have had to translate it somehow, and then copy/paste the translation into this thread.
Given that I didn't do that, there is no plagiarism. And, as pointed out above, the term "Ninjasalvaging" showed up on these very forums 3 months before you published your "guide"...not that it matters, since you can't copyright a word |
Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:48:00 -
[602]
google cannot say lies, and you can I understand that you will protect the reputation up to the end, but you have no chances as plagiarism is visible. --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Tamer
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:54:00 -
[603]
Our ninja-church exists from first day when salvagers have appeared --------------------- English language (100) ETA: 17d 13h 54m 13s |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.04 19:54:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Tamer google cannot say lies, and you can I understand that you will protect the reputation up to the end, but you have no chances as plagiarism is visible.
You don't know what plagiarism is.
Anyway, go ahead. Please, I encourage you, complain to anyone and everyone you know about the alleged "plagiarism".
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Kva Plexcha
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:20:00 -
[605]
Hmm my 2 cents then I go away ... Ninja salvging exist because of the game rules, which are ...
1) Kill a rat, create a wreck. It may drop loot. You have ownership to said loot but not wreck - Its fair game
2) You can shoot your own wrecks but no other. So you can pop your own wrecks to prevent them from being ninja'd.
It's funny how all the ninjas state CCP allows them to salvage anything, its the rules, but then downplay or deride the mission runner when he pops the wrecks. CCP allows that too, so dont whine about a mission runner doing it.
One can't help that think that the life of this thread and the responses allows Kahega even more carebear tears, even while not actually playing.
I dont mission and I don't ninja salvage ( as I think its impolite to take something without asking the intentions of someone who is there first ( notice I didnt say who owns it ..)) but I will give a bit of respect for Kahega and his "ilk" for carving out a profesion, and a lucrative one at that, bu carefully following the rules of the game. My solution to this, other than popping the wrecks to deny the salvagers their cash, is a corpy in a cloaked Arazu hanging around to web and pop any salvager who gets bolder and grabs the loot.
Personally for myself I run low sec/ null sec exploration plexes and I have to be on the constant lookout for intruders not because they will steal my salvage but pop my ship.
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Kva Plexcha
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:28:00 -
[606]
Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 04/06/2009 20:28:07 Oh damm I posted in the wrong thread ... didn't realize this was the Peoples Court of Worldwide Copyright thread - thats what happens when you only read 18 pages and not the last 2 |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.06.04 20:45:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Kva Plexcha Edited by: Kva Plexcha on 04/06/2009 20:28:07 Oh damm I posted in the wrong thread ... didn't realize this was the Peoples Court of Worldwide Copyright thread - thats what happens when you only read 18 pages and not the last 2
It's fine. I think he's done with his whining anyway.
Quote: CCP allows that too, so dont whine about a mission runner doing it.
Who whined? We just stated that it's amusing when a missionrunner does it.
Quote: One can't help that think that the life of this thread and the responses allows Kahega even more carebear tears, even while not actually playing.
It serves a number of purposes. The whines keep it bumped to the top...and provide a good source of amusement.
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.05 02:50:00 -
[608]
Looks like I missed quite the party.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Frealef
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.06.06 13:06:00 -
[609]
Edited by: Frealef on 06/06/2009 13:06:58 Just wanted to thank you for this guide, it has given me a reason to play again!
Was originally a mining character but dosn't make me enough money to keep me interested. So I started mission running, but soon got bored with them, there just the same thing over and over again and the pay was worse than mining, and if level 4's are just the same old grinding over and over even for good pay its not what I want to do. So I started training for PvP.
However I still needed some way of making money to finance PvP and thats when I found this guide. Last night I went out and did my first scanning op for mission ships..... found a battleship after 15 mins I warped to it, to my surprise there was no ship there (dunno if he had only just warped off) but there was about 30 wrecks most with loot. So i got to Salvaging, didn't loot in case he came back and am not ready for fighting just yet. Salvaged the wrecks in about 10 mins flew back and sold it all for 7million not bad for 25 mins work from starting to scan till finish. Then thought what the hell as the battleship hadn't returned I flew back in my hauler and looted all the containers sold it all or reprocessed the low price stuff took about 30 mins to collect it all and ended up making over 14 million !!!! so about 21 million isk for an hours work (dunno if I got lucky but even just the salvaging seems worth it to me and once my PvP is better may even make some enemies to have fun with)
much better than mining or low-level missions so if you can't run level 4's or find missions and mining boring this is a great way to make money!!
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Gin G
Halls Of Valhalla
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Posted - 2009.06.06 15:48:00 -
[610]
This thread is goran damn funny well done all.
Yes even the kids whining and cryone over a GAME. |
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Rip Minner
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Posted - 2009.06.06 17:34:00 -
[611]
Just want to say to all the nija salvagers I love you guys keep up the good work.
Becouse wither or not you know it you help make low sec a lonly place for the gankers there. Thx's to missions being scanable no sane mission run trys runing low sec missions and that means no Industrals supplying them and that means no realy profitable gate camping in low sec.
So thx you very much and plz help your self to my salvage and loot its worth making low sec what it is today thx you :)
Dont change a thing plz its working as intended :) |
Lena Valente
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Posted - 2009.06.06 21:10:00 -
[612]
This topis is not about ninja salvaging, it is about salvaging not your own wrecks without owners permission.
Ninja salvaging occurs when you salvage wrecks from a battlefield in hostile space, salvaging t2 wrecks with your finger on cloak or 'warp to' button.
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2009.06.07 15:43:00 -
[613]
Originally by: Lena Valente This topis is not about ninja salvaging, it is about salvaging not your own wrecks without owners permission.
Ninja salvaging occurs when you salvage wrecks from a battlefield in hostile space, salvaging t2 wrecks with your finger on cloak or 'warp to' button.
That souns like good fun too :)
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.08 20:38:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Lena Valente This topis is not about ninja salvaging, it is about salvaging not your own wrecks without owners permission.
Ninja salvaging occurs when you salvage wrecks from a battlefield in hostile space, salvaging t2 wrecks with your finger on cloak or 'warp to' button.
i couldn't understand you over the sounds of the english language screaming in agony. |
Seren Duchaen
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Posted - 2009.06.08 23:18:00 -
[615]
So..using this guide as a way to improve my scanning skills. Been playing for 3 years and done so much of this game...scanning/exploration/etc is an area I have not really explored until recently. And no, I am not a ninja salvager/salvage thief/etc but I find busting into people's missions as an effective real time practice. They do trip out when you wave and then just go away. Actually had private convos going "Wait..you aren't going to steal my wrecks?"
Anyways, the point... Had some issues recently and I was wondering if I was the only one so I figure asking one of the most active communities in EVE when it comes to scanning... So I throw out 4 probes set to 16AU to cover a system. I get nice Dot hit (not plane or sphere) at lets say 20% signal strength. Im all like "Cool". Shrink the probes down to 8AU range and put them around the signal. Two on the horizontal and two on the vertical plane all overlapping at this little Dot. Scan again.. Say I get about 60%..this person is out in the middle of nowhere...so its a mission. Shrink the probes down to 4AU (I used to go straight to 2AU if I got above 50% but stopped cause of the recent issue) and repeat the procedure..... AND PRESTO the hit is COMPLETELY GONE! This hasn't happened just once but almost EVERY single time. (Id bet to say 95%)
So... 1)Am I having that bad of luck all of a sudden? 2)Am I doing something wrong? And if so what? 3)Is anyone else experiencing this suddenly?
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Nefrin Maldoes
Minmatar Outer Rim Survey and Salvage
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Posted - 2009.06.09 04:49:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Seren Duchaen
AND PRESTO the hit is COMPLETELY GONE! This hasn't happened just once but almost EVERY single time. (Id bet to say 95%)
So... 1)Am I having that bad of luck all of a sudden? 2)Am I doing something wrong? And if so what? 3)Is anyone else experiencing this suddenly?
There is a known issue right now that if you get two possible locations (it should be two red dots) only one is showing up graphically. If you look at your scan results, you'll see that you have two hits for the same tag.
I'm pretty sure that a lot of people that make a living scanning have bug reported it, as I have, yet I have not had a response.
Right now, my work around for it is one of two ways:
1) Recenter your probe pyramid on the only available red dot, but do not resize the probes. Scan again, and 9/10 times I get just a single hit (confirmed by the scan result window).
2) if you can't get a single hit using the above method, resize your probes down one notch, center them, and then cross your fingers. If you don't get your scan result that you are looking for, leave the probes where they are and upsize them all by one notch and scan again to pick up the signal.
Repeat 1) and 2) as needed.
Yes, it's annoying, and yes, I hope they fix it soon. If anyone else has a better way to workout the current bug, I'd love to hear it myself. --------------- He who stumbles around in the dark with a stick is blind. But he who sticks out in darkness is . . . fluorescent! |
0rch1d
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.09 21:03:00 -
[617]
And in after the lulz. :(
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0rch1d
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.09 21:04:00 -
[618]
. |
Teaman
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Posted - 2009.06.10 03:28:00 -
[619]
there is a very nice alternative to ninja loot/salvage for people who are doing it for the money. you can just sit outside station in motsu or any trade hub, open convo with anyone who comes out of station in BS/CS and ask them if you can loot/sal.
often enough, you will come upon people who wouldnt loot/sal anyway and would be happy to let you do it, often asking for nothing in return on their part.
even better is that you can get a constant supply of loot and salvage with this method following the person around. not only that, but they sometime fleet you while your in the mission, thereby giving you bounty. after the mission they often share LP/standing/isk with you.
and given there are 100's of mission runners in a hub, you have limitless supply of people to ask, you create positive relationship with these people. if you are noob, they help you out with the game.
so if you are noob, i suggest doing this instead of ninja'ing. you can get more money and the contact you get with often high sp high experience character is better than ****ing them off.
if you are in this for the tears however, then ninja is a good profession. esp when they open fire at you and you come back in a domy filled with neuts and 800 to ransom them in their mission while they are tanking rats, then killing them any way and take their faction stuff.
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Dotard
Minmatar Chaos Coalition Chaotic Evolution
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Posted - 2009.06.10 12:27:00 -
[620]
Asking permission removes all the fun. Where's the fun in that?
Looting and salvaging OPMs (other peoples missions) is how I keep my wallet afloat, however 9 out of 10 missions I enter I'm looking to get shot at.
It's one of the only ways to get a 1v1 or 2onMe with a greatly decreased chance of being blobbed. For a primarily solo player getting blobbed is no fun. The potential is still there, but not 100% certain as if I entered low/null sec space.
I make dang-good isk when I need isk, but, for me, it's more about the PvP. Not PvB(lob) or PvG(ank squad). Yeah, it happens sometimes, but comparitivly rare.
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Noran Ferah
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.10 17:28:00 -
[621]
So, when I mission in my Golem, I tractor and salvage each wreck as I create it.
Also, I do not deploy drones until only frigates are left, and then tractor/salvage the wrecks as they are created and pull drones as soon as the last wreck is complete.
I rarely have more than three or four wrecks on the field at any given time, and then not for long at all - and with 8600+ volley damage I clear these things pretty quick.
Does this process, which I use because it seems to me the best use of time, effectively lessen my "footprint" to the carebare salvagers and their scanning probes?
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brahiem
Flying While Intoxicated EvE Consortium
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Posted - 2009.06.10 17:33:00 -
[622]
not really, marauders are easy to scan |
Herzog Wolfhammer
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Posted - 2009.06.10 19:28:00 -
[623]
How many times I have had tons o wrecks out there and not wanting to take the time to salvage them, I would say in local "hey, lots of wrecks here, who wants them?"
and
Nothing.
Why do I offer free wrecks for salvage and get no reply yet others have issues with ninjas? Don't know.
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Don Cordelion
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Posted - 2009.06.10 19:41:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Noran Ferah So, when I mission in my Golem, I tractor and salvage each wreck as I create it.
Also, I do not deploy drones until only frigates are left, and then tractor/salvage the wrecks as they are created and pull drones as soon as the last wreck is complete.
Does this process, which I use because it seems to me the best use of time, effectively lessen my "footprint" to the carebare salvagers and their scanning probes?
Wrecks don't show on scanner (apart from directional scanner) and Marauder is really easy to scan out. I have never paid any attention on drones when scanning really since battleship > drone, don't think it makes really any big difference, and I started scanning with skills at 1. Another thing is that I expect marauder pilot to salvage on the go so I only go in if I feel like salvaging the wrecks from your tractor beam. This of course usually leads the typical butthurt marauder pilot reaction which makes him to shoot the wrecks which leads me having to follow him for next hour and make him to shoot every wreck, also stealing the possible mission item is tempting if possible..
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Chantilly Layce
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Posted - 2009.06.11 11:34:00 -
[625]
Edited by: Chantilly Layce on 11/06/2009 11:38:26
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
*THIS* is why I ninja... what a goob...did you feel "dirty" having to come down off your mountain top long enough to mingle with us mere mortals and write that?
[Edited for extra noobish ninja goodness]
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Hyveres
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.06.11 13:16:00 -
[626]
Best way to stop a ninjasalvager is simple stay in nullsec , and kill the sucker when you see him :)
Highsec = fail :P |
0rch1d
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.15 17:50:00 -
[627]
Edited by: 0rch1d on 15/06/2009 17:55:30
Originally by: Hyveres Best way to stop a ninjasalvager is simple stay in nullsec , and kill the sucker when you see him :)
Highsec = fail :P
But young missionbears with their bought ISK and shiny PvE shippies love hi-sec.
Notice that a lot of them can barely manage level 4s. |
Antoine Roquentin
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:15:00 -
[628]
Originally by: 0rch1d Edited by: 0rch1d on 15/06/2009 17:55:30
Originally by: Hyveres Best way to stop a ninjasalvager is simple stay in nullsec , and kill the sucker when you see him :)
Highsec = fail :P
But young missionbears with their bought ISK and shiny PvE shippies love hi-sec.
Notice that a lot of them can barely manage level 4s.
It's so annoying when you're waiting for salvage and the noob is having to warp out twice just to kill one BS.
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Bootleg Greg
Minmatar CHILL Industries
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:26:00 -
[629]
Yeah, I remember having my noobies getting ninja salvaged in my corp. We war dec'd the corp and kill 2 of his battleships so far. So yeah, think twice, look both ways, 5m in salvage for 2 bs' . Good trade!
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Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.06.15 18:32:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Antoine Roquentin It's so annoying when you're waiting for salvage and the noob is having to warp out twice just to kill one BS.
Couple of times I have tanked the room for em. And once I actually offered advice on how best to finish the mission. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.17 19:38:00 -
[631]
I just pulled 40mill in loot/salv in 20mins, thanks to AE4 and SE4.
Thank you Kahega.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Nin'ja Tamake
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.06.19 06:53:00 -
[632]
Originally by: 0rch1d Edited by: 0rch1d on 15/06/2009 17:55:30
Originally by: Hyveres Best way to stop a ninjasalvager is simple stay in nullsec , and kill the sucker when you see him :)
Highsec = fail :P
But young missionbears with their bought ISK and shiny PvE shippies love hi-sec.
Notice that a lot of them can barely manage level 4s.
And, of course, there's lots of salvage to be had in nullsec too. We're just more careful, salvage in SB's, and travel in packs.
Nin. |
Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.25 03:04:00 -
[633]
how dare this be on page 5!
TO THE TOP! |
Lunewraith
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.06.25 03:34:00 -
[634]
Advice time :)
This is what I've been using in Amarr hubs on an alt to decent effect:
[Moa, Hi Tharr!] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I 10MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager I Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Salvage Tackle I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Hobgoblin II x3
I like the Moa, can fit AB/MWD (I like the MWD for single pocket missions with no gate), fits the Expanded launcher so its one-stop probing/salvaging. Ship speed is a bit meh, but I'm loath to use Overdrives due to tight cargo space + nanos give the ability to gtfo if the mission runner leaves and drops aggro. 3 T2 drones are nice for insurance on scrambling frigs.
Question is, is there a better ship to use for a similar setup? I'd like moar tank/ship speed or most preferably, lower sig radius for kiting BS's when missioners drop out and deaggro. tia :) |
Filofox
Amarr 28 Disciples and a Kangaroo
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Posted - 2009.06.25 04:21:00 -
[635]
Edited by: Filofox on 25/06/2009 04:22:25 [Stabber Fleet Issue, Stabber Fleet Issue] Republic Fleet Overdrive Injector Republic Fleet Overdrive Injector Republic Fleet Overdrive Injector Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Corelum C-Type 10MN Afterburner Ship Scanner II Passive Targeter II Cargo Scanner II
Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher, Sisters Combat Scanner Probe I
Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I
Stats: Use EFT to check the sig and speed you'll get. Usage: AB, approach wreck (6m), turn 1 or 4 salv II, approach another wreck, repeat. It's expensive but 2 or 3 days of hard ninja work and you'll pay it. Use passive target, scanners to evaluate the value of the fitting.
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Awesome Possum
Insert Obscure Latin Name
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Posted - 2009.06.25 07:28:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Lunewraith Advice time :)
This is what I've been using in Amarr hubs on an alt to decent effect:
[Moa, Hi Tharr!] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
10MN MicroWarpdrive I 10MN Afterburner I Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II
Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager I Expanded Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I
Salvage Tackle I [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
Hobgoblin II x3
I like the Moa, can fit AB/MWD (I like the MWD for single pocket missions with no gate), fits the Expanded launcher so its one-stop probing/salvaging. Ship speed is a bit meh, but I'm loath to use Overdrives due to tight cargo space + nanos give the ability to gtfo if the mission runner leaves and drops aggro. 3 T2 drones are nice for insurance on scrambling frigs.
Question is, is there a better ship to use for a similar setup? I'd like moar tank/ship speed or most preferably, lower sig radius for kiting BS's when missioners drop out and deaggro. tia :)
i don't know how much calibration that tackle rig costs, but why not stick a scanning rig on it, as well? they're real cheap. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Hot Trim
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.02 22:11:00 -
[637]
Bump for Great LULZ
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Trucker Mike
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Posted - 2009.07.14 01:27:00 -
[638]
This sort of vital information needs to be on the first page. Up you go.
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RonPaul Solution
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:53:00 -
[639]
george w bush used to BUMP *******, true story
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Dzil
Caldari StrwBerry Pancakes
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Posted - 2009.07.20 17:57:00 -
[640]
Originally by: RonPaul Solution george w bush used to BUMP *******, true story
And yet, that bastard still decided America needs a war on drugs instead of providing food and health care to its citizens and the world.
---------------------- Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m for 7+ standings ---------------------- |
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Magnum higgins
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Posted - 2009.07.21 08:19:00 -
[641]
Its why dudes u should bring a mate with u in mission, too help u salvaging/looting all durring the mission time. Very funny thread anyway:p
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XxTangoxX
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Posted - 2009.07.23 16:13:00 -
[642]
The Devs need to allow you to scan down wrecks. A lot of people are just trying to make some cash in the game and salvage is how they do it. On the flip side though mission runners may be in the same boat, just trying to make some ISK to pay the bills ;)
It's the devs fault that you have to scan down active missions to find the wrecks... If you could scan down the actual wrecks or scan down the missions, I bet a lot of people would go for mission runners only if the wrecks that were abandoned were cleared out already as it's 1) safer and 2) easier then trying to race to get the best salvage etc.
I know for a fact that a lot of mission runners leave their wrecks behind as they are grinding up standings and don't need the money or are happy enough with the bounty rewards, and taking the time to salvage slows down the total number of missions you get done...
It's a silly design... they say "salvage is free for anyone to grab" yet they force you to scan down the actual mission runner where there is a high chance of causing conflict instead of letting you scan down the wrecks. |
g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.07.23 18:26:00 -
[643]
Originally by: XxTangoxX If you could scan down the actual wrecks or scan down the missions, I bet a lot of people would go for mission runners only if the wrecks that were abandoned were cleared out already as it's 1) safer and 2) easier then trying to race to get the best salvage etc.
No, ninjas aren't only after the salvage. The salvage is more like a side benefit to the tears you get. |
Kay Vaginal
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Posted - 2009.07.23 22:46:00 -
[644]
When a somebody else approaches a wreck while you are running a mission, wait until they get close to a wreck then pop it. Repeat. You get the mission and bounty cash, they get all the fun of running back and forth only to be denied their pittance at the last moment again and again and again. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.23 22:56:00 -
[645]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal When a somebody else approaches a wreck while you are running a mission, wait until they get close to a wreck then pop it. Repeat. You get the mission and bounty cash, they get all the fun of running back and forth only to be denied their pittance at the last moment again and again and again.
There are enough good tips to avoid ninjas that it makes me sad when people think something stupid like this will help them. I, like any other ninja I know, makes a point of going to each and every wreck. If I'm feeling particularly spiteful, I'll get my alpha mael out and pop the wrecks before you so that I get the bounties. |
g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.07.24 02:22:00 -
[646]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal When a somebody else approaches a wreck while you are running a mission, wait until they get close to a wreck then pop it. Repeat. You get the mission and bounty cash, they get all the fun of running back and forth only to be denied their pittance at the last moment again and again and again.
We are not denied. The fact that we cause you to pop your precious loot is payment enough. Please continue the practice. |
Whineroy
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Posted - 2009.07.24 10:52:00 -
[647]
Originally by: g0ggalor
We are not denied. The fact that we cause you to pop your precious loot is payment enough. Please continue the practice.
...And once again it is proven that "ninja salvagers" are called that because it would be too long to call them as what they are, "nerdy losers who lack a pair to admit that they are nerdy losers". Please keep on whining about "carebears", "internet psychology" and otherwise throwing temper tantrums whenever someone slaps you back a bit after all the derisive comments and insults you keep flinging at others. That only proves the above point even more. Thanks.
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Da'Than
Interstellar Military Industries
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Posted - 2009.07.24 11:57:00 -
[648]
Please don't call them nerds, nerds are nice people who are just a bit too smart (and fanatic) to be normal, while ninjas are... well, ninjas.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.07.24 17:10:00 -
[649]
Y'know, every time this topic comes up (or bubbles back up to the top of the forum) I think to myself:
Me: Self (I have deep conversations with my Self, and have learned that I respect myself more if I respect myself a little...), it would appear that missionrunners don't like the people who show up uninvited and salvage their missions.
Self: You're probably right. <cue evil laughter> I think they "don't like" them a whole lot. With a burning purple passion, even!
Me: Yes, and you know what the best part is, Self? The mission-runners just don't understand that all their whining in the forums is making the evil uninvited salvagers very happy! It's a huge part of why they keep coming back for more.
Self: But wait, there's more! CCP absolutely has to be laughing up their sleeves! Think of all the player versus player conflict this one tiny game mechanic has caused! The tears! The delicious tears! <cue more evil laughter>
Me: Yes, and this whole ninja salvaging thing would become much less entertaining to both salvagers and CCP if the missionrunners would just stop whining. Possibly they'd even find they have fewer salvagers to compete with for salvage. Certainly they'd have to contend with less forum aggravation.
Self: But that will never happen. And we wouldn't want it to.
Me: No, you're right, I enjoy the crying too much...
(Me, my Self and I walk off into the sunset, arm in arm in arm... <Ow!> I think I strained a shoulder!)
tl;dr version: Ninja salvagers do it for several reasons. Earning some ISK is nice, but the whining is a pearl beyond price. I (at least) would salvage less if I didn't get to listen to whiny missionrunners from time to time. I would probably still do it, though; the quick ISK is nice if I don't have a mission ship in the area...
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Kay Vaginal
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Posted - 2009.07.25 09:34:00 -
[650]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
There are enough good tips to avoid ninjas that it makes me sad when people think something stupid like this will help them. I, like any other ninja I know, make a point of going to each and every wreck. If I'm feeling particularly spiteful, I'll get my alpha mael out and pop the wrecks before you so that I get the bounties.
I've never seen a ninja go for anything but large, you're making your unprofitable past time even less profitable by doing otherwise. I'm not sure if I should tell you this, but you don't get any bounty for blowing up wrecks. Don't let that stop you though! Go ahead and try blowing up somebody's wrecks, be sure to fraps it and post the vid. A good laugh is always appreciated.
Originally by: g0ggalor We are not denied. The fact that we cause you to pop your precious loot is payment enough. Please continue the practice.
You're there for the salvage, you get no salvage. That's the very definition of denied. 99% of the time the only things worth looting have such horrible salvage they're not worth turning the beams on.
I know that there's this idea that every mission runner is distraught when somebody ninjas their mission and cries themself to sleep about it while ninja salvagers are the cool kids of carebearing , taking things other people have made and laughing at the horror they leave in their wake, but speaking for myself, I simply don't care. Running level 4's for the cash, bounties and LP will net much more isk that searching for scraps and competing w/ all the other cool kids who are likewise looking for mission runner's leftovers. I know how much tears mean to some of you but I just don't care. Sorry. Popping my own wrecks while watching you try and outrun my guns to them is funny to me and I lose next to nothing by doing it.
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The Chooch
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Posted - 2009.07.25 15:34:00 -
[651]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
There are enough good tips to avoid ninjas that it makes me sad when people think something stupid like this will help them. I, like any other ninja I know, make a point of going to each and every wreck. If I'm feeling particularly spiteful, I'll get my alpha mael out and pop the wrecks before you so that I get the bounties.
I've never seen a ninja go for anything but large, you're making your unprofitable past time even less profitable by doing otherwise. I'm not sure if I should tell you this, but you don't get any bounty for blowing up wrecks. Don't let that stop you though! Go ahead and try blowing up somebody's wrecks, be sure to fraps it and post the vid. A good laugh is always appreciated.
I'm just about positive that was a slip of the tongue (fingers?), and he meant popping your NPCs, live ones, with his Maelstrom. I deduced this from the part about him getting bounties, that only come from live things, my dear Watson. :)
To be more topical, when a mission runner pops a wreck that I'm headed for/at, I cease flying to wrecks and take up orbit around them. A few things can happen at this point.
A - they'll tractor wrecks/move to them and I'll swipe the salvage from under their nose. B - they'll blow up the rest of the field whilst I forum browse/chat in corp/scan down another MR. C - the most reasonable, and by far the rarest - they grab what they can, whilst I do the same. We both leave a little wealthier than otherwise. D - They leave the mission. And Flying Spaghetti Monster help them if it's a mission that I can in any way hold ransom.
Any one of the above options is perfectly fine by me, as in every case I get something from it, or something happens which benefits me. How many of the above options benefit the MR? One? Maybe two if you stretch? Yeah. It IS a pretty sweet deal, thank you for noticing :)
While you may not give a hoot for your salvage, most MRs really, really do. They give so much of a hoot it's unhealthy. Scary even. Some think that by a quick chest-thump and a blown up wreck the ninja can be discouraged, and will leave the MR in peace to salvage in his own good time.
Most ninja I know react in much the same way I do. If you pop a single wreck, best be prepared to pop every last one until the end of your mission :)
Or, barring that, they'll react like Kahega. Whip out their specially-fitted high Alpha snipe ships and deny you your bounties AND wrecks :D
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.25 16:07:00 -
[652]
Quote: I've never seen a ninja go for anything but large, you're making your unprofitable past time even less profitable by doing otherwise. I'm not sure if I should tell you this, but you don't get any bounty for blowing up wrecks. Don't let that stop you though! Go ahead and try blowing up somebody's wrecks, be sure to fraps it and post the vid. A good laugh is always appreciated.
Typo. I meant the rats.
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Willy Pete
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.25 16:48:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal When a somebody else approaches a wreck while you are running a mission, wait until they get close to a wreck then pop it. Repeat. You get the mission and bounty cash, they get all the fun of running back and forth only to be denied their pittance at the last moment again and again and again.
But we won't be denied the lulz as we laugh at you having a temper tantrum and ruining 18% - 38% of your mission running profit, according to Kerfira's mission break down post, plus the time you waste doing so, since, as another poster mentioned, I am honor bound to make sure you have to kill all the wrecks. Unlike you, I'm not in it primarily for the isk. I'm in it for the tears: in game, and on forum.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.07.25 16:49:00 -
[654]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal
Originally by: g0ggalor We are not denied. The fact that we cause you to pop your precious loot is payment enough. Please continue the practice.
You're there for the salvage, you get no salvage. That's the very definition of denied. 99% of the time the only things worth looting have such horrible salvage they're not worth turning the beams on.
I don't really need the salvage tbo. I just like the sport of it. I'm new to probing, so I still enjoy the skill of pinning someone down. I also like to see if I can extract some tears, especially in local. Why just the other day I had someone get so worked up they compared my salvaging of "their" wrecks to the raping of children. D:
Getting salvage is just a side benefit for me. That surely isn't the case for ninjas who are working by a profit motive, but it is for me.
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Voridor Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.07.25 22:14:00 -
[655]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal
I know that there's this idea that every mission runner is distraught when somebody ninjas their mission and cries themself to sleep about it while ninja salvagers are the cool kids of carebearing , taking things other people have made and laughing at the horror they leave in their wake, but speaking for myself, I simply don't care. Running level 4's for the cash, bounties and LP will net much more isk that searching for scraps and competing w/ all the other cool kids who are likewise looking for mission runner's leftovers. I know how much tears mean to some of you but I just don't care. Sorry. Popping my own wrecks while watching you try and outrun my guns to them is funny to me and I lose next to nothing by doing it.
A pathetic attempt to restore some superiority in an otherwise helpless situation.
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Kay Vaginal
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Posted - 2009.07.26 04:41:00 -
[656]
Originally by: Kay Vaginal
I know that there's this idea that every mission runner is distraught when somebody ninjas their mission and cries themself to sleep about it while ninja salvagers are the cool kids of carebearing , taking things other people have made and laughing at the horror they leave in their wake, but speaking for myself, I simply don't care.
Exhibit A:
Originally by: Willy Pete/tweedledee
But we won't be denied the lulz as we laugh at you having a temper tantrum and ruining 18% - 38% of your mission running profit, according to Kerfira's mission break down post, plus the time you waste doing so, since, as another poster mentioned, I am honor bound to make sure you have to kill all the wrecks. Unlike you, I'm not in it primarily for the isk. I'm in it for the tears: in game, and on forum.
Exhibit B:
Originally by: Voridor Malevolence/tweedledum
A pathetic attempt to restore some superiority in an otherwise helpless situation.
Try moar, you two are this close to being hardcore.
Originally by: The Chooch
While you may not give a hoot for your salvage, most MRs really, really do. They give so much of a hoot it's unhealthy. Scary even. Some think that by a quick chest-thump and a blown up wreck the ninja can be discouraged, and will leave the MR in peace to salvage in his own good time.
Most ninja I know react in much the same way I do. If you pop a single wreck, best be prepared to pop every last one until the end of your mission :)
Or, barring that, they'll react like Kahega. Whip out their specially-fitted high Alpha snipe ships and deny you your bounties AND wrecks :D
People whining is funny. In local, or on these forums like tweedledee and tweedledum there. I only bother with large wrecks usually. If people like Kahega want to help me do my missions without taking anything but a share of bounties, they're very welcome to do so. We can make it a race. See how many ships we can pop in 15mins and then try to beat that record.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.07.26 08:17:00 -
[657]
Originally by: The Chooch While you may not give a hoot for your salvage, most MRs really, really do. They give so much of a hoot it's unhealthy. Scary even. Some think that by a quick chest-thump and a blown up wreck the ninja can be discouraged, and will leave the MR in peace to salvage in his own good time.
Most ninja I know react in much the same way I do. If you pop a single wreck, best be prepared to pop every last one until the end of your mission :)
Or, barring that, they'll react like Kahega. Whip out their specially-fitted high Alpha snipe ships and deny you your bounties AND wrecks :D
I agree whole with the first part of this. For the second day in a row, a MR has cried in local and compared ninjaing the salvage to ****. You have got to be kidding me! He then threatened to contact a merc corp to take out our salvage rifters. D: I can just imagine how hard the mercs would laugh at him if he tried.
Every ninja I know will also pursue every wreck when the MR pops them, which is funny because most of the time we will only go for the large wrecks, and possibly mediums. If the MR had just let us salvage what we wanted, he/she would still have gotten all their loot and some salvage too.
And to the stealing of bounties... Oh do the tears flow then.
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Murbella Venturi
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Posted - 2009.07.26 08:27:00 -
[658]
Edited by: Murbella Venturi on 26/07/2009 08:28:08 man just use tractors
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The Chooch
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Posted - 2009.07.26 09:47:00 -
[659]
Originally by: g0ggalor
Originally by: The Chooch While you may not give a hoot for your salvage, most MRs really, really do. They give so much of a hoot it's unhealthy. Scary even. Some think that by a quick chest-thump and a blown up wreck the ninja can be discouraged, and will leave the MR in peace to salvage in his own good time.
Most ninja I know react in much the same way I do. If you pop a single wreck, best be prepared to pop every last one until the end of your mission :)
Or, barring that, they'll react like Kahega. Whip out their specially-fitted high Alpha snipe ships and deny you your bounties AND wrecks :D
I agree whole with the first part of this. For the second day in a row, a MR has cried in local and compared ninjaing the salvage to ****. You have got to be kidding me! He then threatened to contact a merc corp to take out our salvage rifters. D: I can just imagine how hard the mercs would laugh at him if he tried.
Speaking of this particular bit of insanity; I posted something on Suddenly Ninjas forum a few nights ago for lulz (and due to lack of sleep) and I wasn't going to invite flames by posting it here, but I think now I will. For some reason, I've noticed a spike of people taking ninja salvaging far, FAR more seriously than is healthy in my travels the last few days, and I don't enjoy seeing my fellow man in such a state. What I post now, I post for the well being of all! ...and for more lulz!
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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.07.26 18:40:00 -
[660]
The devs need to enable us to shoot ninja salvagers by making wrecks property of the original player who shot the npc.
Long overdue change.
You could always renounce ownership of the wreck.
Say a compromise, the wreck belongs to the player who shot it for 15 mins, after that it is fair game.
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Voridor Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.07.26 20:47:00 -
[661]
Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 26/07/2009 20:47:28
Originally by: Kay Vaginal Try moar, you two are this close to being hardcore.
Yet another pathetic attempt to restore some superiority in an otherwise helpless situation.
edit:
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Willy Pete
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.26 20:50:00 -
[662]
Originally by: Murbella Venturi Edited by: Murbella Venturi on 26/07/2009 08:28:08 man just use tractors
Yes, please do. Then I can just sit at 0 feet from you and salvage as you tractor the wrecks in. |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.26 21:23:00 -
[663]
Originally by: Haraukiae Youik The devs need to enable us to shoot ninja salvagers by making wrecks property of the original player who shot the npc.
Long overdue change.
You could always renounce ownership of the wreck.
Say a compromise, the wreck belongs to the player who shot it for 15 mins, after that it is fair game.
Salvage is its own profession, not a free loot scheme for missionrunners. Salvagers are protected by CONCORD in hisec just as miners, haulers, and missonrunners are. If you want to shoot people for no reason, go to lowsec.
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Willy Pete
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.07.26 23:57:00 -
[664]
Tweedledee here,
I must admit, I am a 100% . I tried a 12 step program to end my bearishness, but I failed (the shame).
Now, let's take this little adventure into another realm of imagination (1,000 isk for the first person to evemail me with the origin of those last three words) - If MRs are making 40 million isk per hour, and if CCP wants to move folks out of high sec, wouldn't the answer be to allow salvagers to both salvage and loot without becoming flagged? Certainly, if the salvager took whatever goo ga the MR needed to succeed in his mission, the salvager would be flagged. But otherwise, no.
This would give incentive for both parties to move into low/null sec. The MR would lose a big hunk of his income and the salvager would lose the Concord/E-bay lottery.
Thoughts?
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philigus
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Posted - 2009.07.27 19:57:00 -
[665]
Interesting thank you for the post. this question sort of belongs here... please move wherever it needs... how do you know when you have legal rights to shoot a person?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.07.27 20:21:00 -
[666]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 27/07/2009 20:24:08
Originally by: philigus Interesting thank you for the post. this question sort of belongs here... please move wherever it needs... how do you know when you have legal rights to shoot a person?
Their overview row is red.
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Khalia Nestune
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.01 07:30:00 -
[667]
Originally by: Haraukiae Youik The devs need to enable us to shoot ninja salvagers by making wrecks property of the original player who shot the npc.
If the intention here is for you to be able to shoot people who salvage your wrecks, then as a Ninja I am ENTIRELY IN SUPPORT OF THIS CHANGE.
Salvaging and getting tears in local is great, but the most epic tears are when I loot, get shot at, and come back with my PvP gankship.
I fully welcome any change the provides mission runners the ability to shoot at me - and therefore let me shoot back.
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Faegun
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Posted - 2009.08.02 14:00:00 -
[668]
I need some help with the probing part.
I've tried and tried and had abit of luck here and there. I've read a few different guides, watched a few video guides. I think I am almost there but I keep having the same problem. When I hit Analyze after slowly bringing down the scan size of my probes to 4 AU this time the red dot totally dissapears. So I think the ship might have cleared off. So I launch another probe with a larger scan size to cover the area and I get a red sphere telling me he is still in there... I increase the other probes back to 8 AU and the ship reappears. Back to 4 AU and its gome.
This has happened several different times and I dont know what to do. Is it because my singal strengh is too low when I try to scan at 4 AU? I seem to do everything right from 64 AU down to 4 AU.
Any help?
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Riedle
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Posted - 2009.08.02 15:31:00 -
[669]
Originally by: Faegun I need some help with the probing part.
I've tried and tried and had abit of luck here and there. I've read a few different guides, watched a few video guides. I think I am almost there but I keep having the same problem. When I hit Analyze after slowly bringing down the scan size of my probes to 4 AU this time the red dot totally dissapears. So I think the ship might have cleared off. So I launch another probe with a larger scan size to cover the area and I get a red sphere telling me he is still in there... I increase the other probes back to 8 AU and the ship reappears. Back to 4 AU and its gome.
This has happened several different times and I dont know what to do. Is it because my singal strengh is too low when I try to scan at 4 AU? I seem to do everything right from 64 AU down to 4 AU.
Any help?
It happens alot. It is because you have a filter set on your results. The filter only applies when you are able to tell what the ship is. If the ship is not on your filtered list, it will no longer appear on your results page as your filter says that you are not interested in it.
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Faegun
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Posted - 2009.08.02 16:34:00 -
[670]
Edited by: Faegun on 02/08/2009 16:36:55 I see. So for example I might have been attempting to probe down a Hulk in a mining mission (without knowing) and because I filter Hulk's it then disapears when the signal strengh is enough to tell me its a Hulk?
Also if it happens as I described, does that mean I should then give up on that signal and try scanning for a new one?
If thats the case it'll be alot harder to find guys running missions then I first thought
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.04 01:42:00 -
[671]
I had to access this page to give someone new to probing a good guide, so I thought I'd give it a nice bump.
Just reading through the OP again, I think you should put in some ship fittings. Here is my rifter fit. 1,300m/s and can hold all the salvage I get unless I get metal scraps, but I usually use the directional scanner to make sure I get good wrecks so rarely need to jet crap salvage.
[Rifter, Ninja rifter] Overdrive Injector System II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Small Capacitor Battery II Cap Recharger II
Salvager I Salvager I Salvager I Salvager I
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Beaty Swollocks
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.08.04 03:06:00 -
[672]
Probing has changed quite abit since i been gone !
Thanks to gogga for linking me this thread and thanks to Kahega for the video it explained it a whole lot easyer. I finaly put my perfect probing skills to the test and scanned down my 1st few mission runners and ninja'd thier loot i knew i should of joined you guys (suddenly ninja) ages ago as i didnt quite relise how huch fun it can be
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Chronospin
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.04 11:06:00 -
[673]
Originally by: Lyta Reimalken
You people treat it like its some kind of exploit. Its not.
Its just your failure to capitalise on resources at your doorstep, and then whining when someone else beats you to the good stuff...
Thats the truth. Nuf said.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.04 14:49:00 -
[674]
Originally by: Chronospin This is all but not easy lol. In about a hour, i managed to discover a yelow dot, a battleship. But once i started focus the probes on it by reducing the range, (and the time i needed to adjust all on the dot) he vanished. I found a lot of double signal strenght but never two spots one above the other like in the video. Well at the end, about two hours probing in Rens/farn and other systems, i got nothing. And i have some skills as well.
Not easy but very interesting.
You are simply lacking skills. It shoulnt' take more than 5 days to get astro IV, and all the support skills up to III, which will make things much easier for you. Using sisters gear with a probe bonus ship also helps out.
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Corporal Meatshield
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:20:00 -
[675]
Heron (or any other ship with scanning bonus) and standard gear are fine as well, with a bit of training you can scan down battleships in less then ten minutes.
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Jen Kobayashi
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Posted - 2009.08.04 15:39:00 -
[676]
First attempt at this the other day, I managed to scan down a battleship in about ten minutes - probably took longer than necessary as I'm not entirely familiar with the scanning interface - and warped in on a room full of shiny wrecks waiting to be salvaged. Much to my dismay there was already someone else in there ninja'ing the guy's wrecks. Swiping wrecks from under mission runners' noses is one thing, but I won't stoop (quite) as low as stealing from other salvagers...
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Chronospin
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.05 10:57:00 -
[677]
Yay; yesterday night i managed to probe a BS :) I have some good skils at it, no worry;) Its just i was doing some manipulations in the wrong way. Well, i managed to probe this BS so i warped in his mission. A nice wrecks field over here. As a gentleman, i convoed him in private to speak a bit. I said " i probed u so i purpose u a deal. U keep ur loot and the medium/larges wrecks, i salvage all the littles ones. Deal ?". The guy tried to intimidate me lamely and tried to agro some NPC on my hull:p Anyway i did what i said, i salvaged only the little wrecks. I dont like ppl when u come as a gentleman and they dont respect u. Probing a guy is the game, it force a relationship in a certain way, and it can bring a momentary "collaboration". Some ppl should open their mind a little bit more and RP and bit more too. My two cents.
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Soliscout
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Posted - 2009.08.05 12:32:00 -
[678]
Originally by: Chronospin Yay; yesterday night i managed to probe a BS :) I have some good skils at it, no worry;) Its just i was doing some manipulations in the wrong way. Well, i managed to probe this BS so i warped in his mission. A nice wrecks field over here. As a gentleman, i convoed him in private to speak a bit. I said " i probed u so i purpose u a deal. U keep ur loot and the medium/larges wrecks, i salvage all the littles ones. Deal ?". The guy tried to intimidate me lamely and tried to agro some NPC on my hull:p Anyway i did what i said, i salvaged only the little wrecks. I dont like ppl when u come as a gentleman and they dont respect u. Probing a guy is the game, it force a relationship in a certain way, and it can bring a momentary "collaboration". Some ppl should open their mind a little bit more and RP and bit more too. My two cents.
Your are not probing out mission runner to be a gentlemen...but to ninja their wrecks
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Veebring Greetings
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Posted - 2009.08.05 12:55:00 -
[679]
Originally by: Jen Kobayashi Swiping wrecks from under mission runners' noses is one thing, but I won't stoop (quite) as low as stealing from other salvagers...
It's not stealing, it's free for all
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Chronospin
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.08.05 14:28:00 -
[680]
Originally by: Soliscout
Your are not probing out mission runner to be a gentlemen...but to ninja their wrecks
Yea but i have a little voice in my head who always scream : "If u do it, do it with style !" :)
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.05 15:03:00 -
[681]
Originally by: Chronospin... i warped in his mission. A nice wrecks field over here. As a gentleman, i convoed him in private to speak a bit. I said " i probed u so i purpose u a deal. U keep ur loot and the medium/larges wrecks, i salvage all the littles ones. Deal ?".... Anyway i did what i said, i salvaged only the little wrecks. [/quote WAT!!!
I'm sorry, that fails.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.05 17:51:00 -
[682]
Quote: You are simply lacking skills. It shoulnt' take more than 5 days to get astro IV, and all the support skills up to III, which will make things much easier for you. Using sisters gear with a probe bonus ship also helps out.
I don't get the point of Astro IV. 7 probes might be useful for some very specialized initial probe formations...but I never use more than five (and that's just for the initial scan)
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Joe Starbreaker
The Fighting Republicans
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Posted - 2009.08.05 20:04:00 -
[683]
Originally by: Chronospin I said " i probed u so i purpose u a deal. U keep ur loot and the medium/larges wrecks, i salvage all the littles ones. Deal ?"
No wonder he didn't like it. This is clearly a breach of ninja protocol. It is customary to make the opposite offer, and the MR probably knew that.
= the GOP is recruiting = |
g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.05 21:39:00 -
[684]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: You are simply lacking skills. It shoulnt' take more than 5 days to get astro IV, and all the support skills up to III, which will make things much easier for you. Using sisters gear with a probe bonus ship also helps out.
I don't get the point of Astro IV. 7 probes might be useful for some very specialized initial probe formations...but I never use more than five (and that's just for the initial scan)
Astro IV gives you access to a skill that give a 10% bonus to strength per level, which is probably the best support skill of all.
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Bloody Knuckle
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Posted - 2009.08.06 02:22:00 -
[685]
Originally by: Chantilly Layce Edited by: Chantilly Layce on 11/06/2009 11:38:26
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
*THIS* is why I ninja... what a goob...did you feel "dirty" having to come down off your mountain top long enough to mingle with us mere mortals and write that?
[Edited for extra noobish ninja goodness]
The reason a pilot decides to ninja is not simply for profit but it is the amount of rush some player get and enjoying a different way of make some isk. If they felt like mission running and enjoyed that environment then they would be doing so.
I mission run and have come in contact with many ninjas. A mission runner (lvl4) with good skillz and a clue of what he/she is doing can make much more than a ninja [20-40 or more Isk/Hour]. What is fun for us might not be fun for others and that is ultimately what your paying for, the enjoyment of the game
I myself have an alt for pure PvP becuase I also enjoy that aspect of the game and mission running in safe little high sec is a easy way to have a stable amount of isk coming in to fund that account.
How I get rid of a Ninja? Only do one of two things that sometimes work, but ultimately it comes down to the Ninja's patience. Warping out which forces the ninja to leave or be shot at by Rats Or, depending on if the mission has such triggers, fully aggro every rat, leave and sometimes the ninja goes pop SORRY! But usually if it is my 10th or 15th mission of the day I don't care to salvage anymore =D
Good luck Ninjas we Salute you!
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.08.06 19:27:00 -
[686]
Originally by: g0ggalor Astro IV gives you access to a skill that give a 10% bonus to strength per level, which is probably the best support skill of all.
Nope. Astrometric Rangefinding gives that bonus, and is available once you have Science at 3. Astrometric Acquisition gives -10% scan time per level, and is available at Astrometrics 3. Astrometric Pinpointing gives -10% scan deviation per level and is available at Astrometrics 4.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.06 19:57:00 -
[687]
Originally by: Mintala Arana
Originally by: g0ggalor Astro IV gives you access to a skill that give a 10% bonus to strength per level, which is probably the best support skill of all.
Nope. Astrometric Rangefinding gives that bonus, and is available once you have Science at 3. Astrometric Acquisition gives -10% scan time per level, and is available at Astrometrics 3. Astrometric Pinpointing gives -10% scan deviation per level and is available at Astrometrics 4.
A, then it is pinpointing that I was referencing. Maybe not the most necessary skill, but a nice support skill to have just the same, (whatever deviation is).
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Captain Gorlok
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.08.06 21:36:00 -
[688]
Quote: A, then it is pinpointing that I was referencing. Maybe not the most necessary skill, but a nice support skill to have just the same, (whatever deviation is).
A, another 10 days and I can have Pinpointing 5 along with the other 3 skills at 5, will it be worth while to train it?
P.S. U sound like a fellow Canuck, lol.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.06 21:55:00 -
[689]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 06/08/2009 21:56:03 Ah, alright. It's been about a year since I trained those skills, back when Astro IV was needed to do effective scanning -anyway-. Didn't even know it was a prereq.
Quote: (whatever deviation is).
Place four probes at 64 AU in a box and scan. Now, set those probes to .5 AU and put them around one of the dots you see. When you scan again, you will see absolutely nothing.
That's deviation.
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Haraukiae Youik
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Posted - 2009.08.07 00:07:00 -
[690]
Originally by: Joe Starbreaker
Originally by: Chronospin I said " i probed u so i purpose u a deal. U keep ur loot and the medium/larges wrecks, i salvage all the littles ones. Deal ?"
No wonder he didn't like it. This is clearly a breach of ninja protocol. It is customary to make the opposite offer, and the MR probably knew that.
There is a ninja protocol? Besides look at the definition of ninja from ninja
Now if you were stealthy in the mission area I would call you a ninja. As it is you are just a game mechanic. and a rather useless one at that. If you guys did this in 0.0 I could see where you would garner some sense of respect, but in hi sec? Really. Go pvp.
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Voridor Malevolence
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:47:00 -
[691]
Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 07/08/2009 08:49:09
Originally by: Haraukiae Youik
As it is you are just a game mechanic. and a rather useless one at that.
That's just, like, an opinion, man.
E:
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Niko Takahashi
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Posted - 2009.08.07 08:56:00 -
[692]
Originally by: Jen Kobayashi First attempt at this the other day, I managed to scan down a battleship in about ten minutes - probably took longer than necessary as I'm not entirely familiar with the scanning interface - and warped in on a room full of shiny wrecks waiting to be salvaged. Much to my dismay there was already someone else in there ninja'ing the guy's wrecks. Swiping wrecks from under mission runners' noses is one thing, but I won't stoop (quite) as low as stealing from other salvagers...
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BlindBleu
Gallente BOOMers Inc
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Posted - 2009.08.07 17:49:00 -
[693]
Originally by: Jen Kobayashi First attempt at this the other day, I managed to scan down a battleship in about ten minutes - probably took longer than necessary as I'm not entirely familiar with the scanning interface - and warped in on a room full of shiny wrecks waiting to be salvaged. Much to my dismay there was already someone else in there ninja'ing the guy's wrecks. Swiping wrecks from under mission runners' noses is one thing, but I won't stoop (quite) as low as stealing from other salvagers...
Very interesting. Many of the Leaders of Ninja Salvaging and the Devs of CCP have stated it is not stealing, it is first come first serve. If you got the the wreck first and salvaged it, it is yours.
Just Think how long Ninja Tears can fuel your pilot. Verbal abuse from a Ninja Salvager being out Ninja Salvaged would be near priceless. Every Plan lasts until the first shot is fired. "I have a Plan, a good one." Generally means it is not. If Yellow it get a Fellow Killed |
Iorya Dragon
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.08.11 12:47:00 -
[694]
And sometimes the Suddenly Ninja, they suddenly die badly:
Suddenly Ninjas, Suddenly they are getting spanked
But i agree making some money by ninja salvaging seems fun, tho i wont do it.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.19 06:28:00 -
[695]
Confirming that we are STILL reeling from the loss of a few ~500K ISK salvage frigates.
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.19 14:37:00 -
[696]
Originally by: Voridor Malevolence Edited by: Voridor Malevolence on 07/08/2009 08:49:09
Originally by: Haraukiae Youik
As it is you are just a game mechanic. and a rather useless one at that.
That's just, like, an opinion, man.
E:
Sometimes I wish this forum had a rep system.
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Riedle
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Posted - 2009.08.19 18:23:00 -
[697]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: You are simply lacking skills. It shoulnt' take more than 5 days to get astro IV, and all the support skills up to III, which will make things much easier for you. Using sisters gear with a probe bonus ship also helps out.
I don't get the point of Astro IV. 7 probes might be useful for some very specialized initial probe formations...but I never use more than five (and that's just for the initial scan)
The only point to Astro IV is because it unlocks Astrometric pinpointing - which is a good one to have.
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Riedle
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Posted - 2009.08.19 18:25:00 -
[698]
Originally by: Captain Gorlok
Quote: A, then it is pinpointing that I was referencing. Maybe not the most necessary skill, but a nice support skill to have just the same, (whatever deviation is).
A, another 10 days and I can have Pinpointing 5 along with the other 3 skills at 5, will it be worth while to train it?
P.S. U sound like a fellow Canuck, lol.
You definitely do not need astronomics at 5. Really don't even need it to 4 except for the pinpointing skill being unlocked.
I am a Canuck. ;0
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.19 18:28:00 -
[699]
Quote: A, another 10 days and I can have Pinpointing 5 along with the other 3 skills at 5, will it be worth while to train it?
For ninjaing, probably unnecessary (though maybe helpful).
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Riedle
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Posted - 2009.08.19 18:29:00 -
[700]
Originally by: Iorya Dragon And sometimes the Suddenly Ninja, they suddenly die badly:
Suddenly Ninjas, Suddenly they are getting spanked
But i agree making some money by ninja salvaging seems fun, tho i wont do it.
Dude, they ganked your 150 million mission ship.
lolz
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.21 01:00:00 -
[701]
Updated the scanning video. Now with fixed scanning bugs, ****tier audio quality, and less fail all around!
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g0ggalor
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Posted - 2009.08.21 22:54:00 -
[702]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Updated the scanning video. Now with fixed scanning bugs, ****tier audio quality, and less fail all around!
Still got some fail in the video though. You should make another one and keep doing so till you have where you don't mess up the explanation.
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Willy Pete
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.08.22 19:48:00 -
[703]
up
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.08.22 23:51:00 -
[704]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 22/08/2009 23:50:51
Originally by: g0ggalor
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Updated the scanning video. Now with fixed scanning bugs, ****tier audio quality, and less fail all around!
Still got some fail in the video though. You should make another one and keep doing so till you have where you don't mess up the explanation.
Yeah, I might do that tomorrow. Or when I'm feeling less lazy.
Also, lol at butthurt missionrunners trolling the youtube comments.
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Boink'urr
Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.08.23 00:24:00 -
[705]
Originally by: Jen Kobayashi First attempt at this the other day, I managed to scan down a battleship in about ten minutes - probably took longer than necessary as I'm not entirely familiar with the scanning interface - and warped in on a room full of shiny wrecks waiting to be salvaged. Much to my dismay there was already someone else in there ninja'ing the guy's wrecks. Swiping wrecks from under mission runners' noses is one thing, but I won't stoop (quite) as low as stealing from other salvagers...
Stealing? i don't think you get the concept. Nor you or he is stealing mate. If you think you are stealing you think your more gansta then you really are. you're just a garbage man :D
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Mad Maulkin
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Posted - 2009.09.04 09:49:00 -
[706]
Originally by: Boink'urr
Originally by: Jen Kobayashi First attempt at this the other day, I managed to scan down a battleship in about ten minutes - probably took longer than necessary as I'm not entirely familiar with the scanning interface - and warped in on a room full of shiny wrecks waiting to be salvaged. Much to my dismay there was already someone else in there ninja'ing the guy's wrecks. Swiping wrecks from under mission runners' noses is one thing, but I won't stoop (quite) as low as stealing from other salvagers...
Stealing? i don't think you get the concept. Nor you or he is stealing mate. If you think you are stealing you think your more gansta then you really are. you're just a garbage man :D
amen brother!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world
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Mad Maulkin
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Posted - 2009.09.06 20:10:00 -
[707]
oh, im just gonne bump you!
Sticky please!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world
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nafiy gnaw
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Posted - 2009.09.06 21:04:00 -
[708]
Very good guide indeed, in fact since so many ninja thread poped up recently, I'm greatly interested and decide to try it out myself.
While I am against griefing tactics, maybe in a week or so I might just as well enjoy those tears shot at me........
mission bears, watch out.
-narfi out
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.09.14 12:29:00 -
[709]
a free bump for a great guide.
Keep the ninja salvaging going :-)
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Mar Lee
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Posted - 2009.10.05 15:41:00 -
[710]
Very nice guide, Kahega. Maybe next you can write a guide to scamming with contracts and abusing the trade window for fun and profit :)
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Face Eelai
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Posted - 2009.10.05 16:54:00 -
[711]
little hint: - do the video - write down whatever you want to say - use some nice fitting (low volume) background music
and now the kicker:
- have your sister or GF actually TALK the text. i tell you: you're gonna have gazillions of visits on your video and nothing but good comments ;)
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Malcolm Roberts
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Posted - 2009.10.06 22:14:00 -
[712]
Originally by: Cartheron Crust
Scan the hit with your directional scanner (it will take you all of a few seconds to align the camera, change the angle and the distance). If there are no wrecks there, there is no point in going there (if you are only after loot/salvage antics), go about your other hits instead. You can check that hit in another minute or so, if you have nothing else to do, to see if there are any wrecks. If not you can safely assume it's a mission like recon or one of the others where you don't actually have to kill anything.
This.
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Malcolm Roberts
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Posted - 2009.10.06 22:30:00 -
[713]
Just a thought here:
Ninjas might be thieves, but mission runners are, in fact, murderers.
You are KILLING people for your money.
So don't get so high and mighty, eh?
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Tetragammatron Prime
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Posted - 2009.10.07 00:32:00 -
[714]
yeah very true haha
the NPC is more of a pvper than the salvage bear
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FISHANDCHIPS
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Posted - 2009.10.07 01:53:00 -
[715]
Originally by: Tetragammatron Prime yeah very true haha
the NPC is more of a pvper than the salvage bear
good old pvp crybabys everyone has to play the game there way sir i salute you
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Corporal Meatshield
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Posted - 2009.10.07 02:25:00 -
[716]
When I started salvaging, I scorned those who did it for tears, and I still kinda do that... but then again, having someone who just earned some millions in a few minutes going ballistic because of some ATBs is more fun than I thought. Great guide!
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2009.10.07 14:42:00 -
[717]
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 07/10/2009 14:44:53 free bump for a great guide.
/me likes moaning old men trying to get me off their lawns =))
Kahega FTW
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Solomar Espersei
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Posted - 2009.10.07 18:39:00 -
[718]
Greetings to the board.
I'm new to EVE and have found that Ninja Salvaging is the most rewarding pursuit for those of us who like fast frigates and the thrill of zipping into a hot mission zone and getting out w/ your ride intact. Only the sweet, sweet triumph of snatching the salvage out of a "tractor beamed" Large Angel wreck can surpass it. Monkey grabs peach!
Seriously, if the missions and agent system wasn't so horribly flawed, I might not have stumbled down the "dark path", but I'm wealthier by a long shot because of it. After the "hey Meat, fetch the perfume for my sister will ya?" mission, I was incensed. Shouldn't there be a "tell Agent to go have sex with herself/himself" button?
Thanks to Kahega for the exceptional materials provided for those of us who have just started and also to those who've offered up outstanding loadouts. The Slasher, Rifter, and Stabber builds have been quite profitable in our operations even if we are loyal Caldari pilots.
A question to the board, currently, I have the Heron, Rifter, and Stabber in my operation. Sometimes though, even the Stabber is a bit light and you end up jetting out only to return again, etc. Say you'd like to have a ship in your tool bag that's an Attack Salvager. The idea is maybe 2-3 Salvagers, a Tractor, and about 1/2 your other high slots in weapons. Of course you'd need a buddy along to help perhaps, but the idea is that, sometimes these PVE guys just drag things out for intolerably long combats. Kind of like a cat toying with a mouse while my wingman and I orbit at safe distance (with popcorn and beer of course). Just kill the darned pirates already so we can all get on with it. I fancy a Caldari or Minmatar ride to send out on these Humanitarian missions? Would a Battlecruiser be fine for that. Or do I have to trot out the ubiquitous Raven like everyone else? Builds, ideas, and loadouts greatly appreciated.
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Dotard
Minmatar Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.08 12:27:00 -
[719]
A tractor is useless if you are scavenging other peoples missions.
Stabber FTW. Decent cargo hold for the lootz. Enough slots to fit 4 salvagers and a couple guns (or small launchers) to pop those pesky warp scramming or webbing npc frigs. Also for popping the MR's drones if he sic's them on you.
Couple Lrg shield extenders to tank aggression, an AB, coupla nanos and a inert stab. Salvage rigs and there-ya-go.
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Solomar Espersei
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Posted - 2009.10.08 17:59:00 -
[720]
The tractor beam is on the Salvage/Looting ship (the Stabber). I use it tow my jet can around while my wingman salvages/loots the other ships in his speedy Slasher. When he fills up, he jettisons, and I tractor his jet can on over. We're typically a two man operation so having one tractor is incredibly handy and efficient in that sense.
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Persia Tah'Muro
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Posted - 2009.10.09 18:56:00 -
[721]
Just an oposing opinion: I for one am not against ninja Salvaging/looting per se but I am opposed to the protection that is granted ninjas in high sec. It's a programmed cheat if ever there was one and what ****es me off most is CCP (whom I generally feel is very balanced in their game play methodology) allowed it.
Nearly everythng else you can do in this game calls for some sort of risk. With risk come rewards. Ninja looting involves zero risk becasue of the CONCORDE protection.
I just think there should be a real risk if someone comes into my mission to take loot and salvage I worked for.
I should be able to fight ninjas and defend what I consider to be my earnings, but so far I can't. That's the issue.
As a role-playing option ninja looting can be a cool option and career choice. But as a game mechanic, CCP screwed it up.
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Solomar Espersei
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Posted - 2009.10.09 22:13:00 -
[722]
Sorry, but there's PLENTY of risk, especially if you're looting cagey MRs. Maybe it's just me and I take too many chances, but I do lose quite a few ships (cost of doing business); a considerably number more than the MRs I'd bet. It doesn't take very much aggro to paste a 1 mil SP character in a little frigate, but it makes it far more exciting than you seem to understand. I ran enough missions to see that there was ZERO risk involved and low enough compensation to make me find something more worthy of my effort. Fix the missions and many of us might be willing to have a go.
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Persia Tah'Muro
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Posted - 2009.10.09 22:20:00 -
[723]
You are right if you choose to loot so no argument there.
I should clarify....there is no risk if a ninja chooses to salvage only.
So if CCP allowed agro for salvaging the way it is for looting cans then everyone would be happy.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.09 22:22:00 -
[724]
Ninjasalvaging should have as much risk as missionrunning does.
That's pretty much what happens now, so no.
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Solomar Espersei
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Posted - 2009.10.09 22:34:00 -
[725]
@ Persia,
I'm not talking about looting. It's usually the aggro that you take when you misread the directional scanner (or you get tricked), you get a little lag and desperately need to warp out, etc. I've yet to lose a ship from looting, but the NPCs have shot my ride out from under me on a number of occasions, which, BTW, never came close to happening in missions or low sec ratting.
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Persia Tah'Muro
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Posted - 2009.10.09 23:55:00 -
[726]
@ Solomar
I'm a bit confused now. I don't ninja anything right now and I don't do scanning or exploration so it sounds like you have additional risks that I am not aware of?
So here is my admittingly limited understanding of scanning and ninja activities: 1. You do your scanning magic and have a choice of what sights you want to travel. 2. Somehow you are able to indentify a mission with active participants. 3. You warp to said mission, salvage without risk and loot if you want to risk it.
So the NPC agro you mentioned....is that the same as the mission NPCs? In other words, if I'm running a mission, you might warp in too early and pull some aggro from those NPCs? Or are you talking about something else?
Explain if you would the risk you face if you scan down my mission site and warp in to salvage.
Maybe its harder to ninja salvage then I thought.....maybe not. But I always assumed you scan/warp/salvage...no risk. Is it NOT that simple then?
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.10 01:13:00 -
[727]
Pretty much. Many missionrunners will warp out and leave you with the entire spawn to deal with...or you just zip around and manage to pull aggro from NPCs that the MR hasn't yet.
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Galmarr
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.10.10 13:25:00 -
[728]
Persia, You are also understating scanning. Its much easier to go to an agent and get a mission than it is to scan mission runners. The agent gives you the location. We have to find you. Much more difficult.
And who says there has to be risk? There is no risk in mining, manufactureing, trading. You make millions doing that. Why must there be risk in salvaging and not in other professions?
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Athena Silk
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Posted - 2009.10.10 15:17:00 -
[729]
Originally by: Persia Tah'Muro @ Solomar
I'm a bit confused now. I don't ninja anything right now and I don't do scanning or exploration so it sounds like you have additional risks that I am not aware of?
So here is my admittingly limited understanding of scanning and ninja activities: 1. You do your scanning magic and have a choice of what sights you want to travel. 2. Somehow you are able to indentify a mission with active participants. 3. You warp to said mission, salvage without risk and loot if you want to risk it.
So the NPC agro you mentioned....is that the same as the mission NPCs? In other words, if I'm running a mission, you might warp in too early and pull some aggro from those NPCs? Or are you talking about something else?
Explain if you would the risk you face if you scan down my mission site and warp in to salvage.
Maybe its harder to ninja salvage then I thought.....maybe not. But I always assumed you scan/warp/salvage...no risk. Is it NOT that simple then?
Probing down people can be a bit tricky, other times you'll get a good hit within a few minutes.
As for risk, a salvage ninja runs about the same risk as a mission runner, probably a bit more. Look at it this way: When was the last time you lost a ship in a mission? The last ship I lost in a mission was a Merlin (I fly BCs now, and would be flying BSs if I could be bothered to train for them). Not counting lag or your own stupidity, mission running in high-sec is pretty much risk free. At least ninjas are only flying frigates, so if the MR warps out and the ninja gets webbed/scrambled by NPCs, things can go belly up pretty fast. And then there's always a possibility that a MR will have a crack at you, and some of those L4 running BSs can pack a hell of an alpha strike if the ninja stops moving.
Lets face it, running L4's in high-sec is quite easy, and almost no risk. You make stupid amounts of money just from mission rewards and bounties, so you really can't complain if someone comes along in a frigate and steals the salvage and the best of the loot.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.10 15:54:00 -
[730]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 10/10/2009 15:54:12
Quote: Probing down people can be a bit tricky, other times you'll get a good hit within a few minutes.bit
Depends, really. If you know how to scan you're guaranteed a hit within 5 minutes if you're in a decent system. In Dodixie you can just move a formation of 4 AU probes around and collect the hits.
If you don't know it, then, it's hell trying to learn. I remember the first day of Apocrypha, where all of SN corp chat and The Ninja Alliance were working together to figure out WTF we were doing.
Quote: As for risk, a salvage ninja runs about the same risk as a mission runner, probably a bit more. Look at it this way: When was the last time you lost a ship in a mission? The last ship I lost in a mission was a Merlin (I fly BCs now, and would be flying BSs if I could be bothered to train for them). Not counting lag or your own stupidity, mission running in high-sec is pretty much risk free. At least ninjas are only flying frigates, so if the MR warps out and the ninja gets webbed/scrambled by NPCs, things can go belly up pretty fast. And then there's always a possibility that a MR will have a crack at you, and some of those L4 running BSs can pack a hell of an alpha strike if the ninja stops moving.
For frigates this is very true; many ninjas do so in faction frigates or interceptors, which can be rather expensive and fragile. I personally fly a Fleet Stabber for the extra loot and ridiculous agility, which can also have about 26K EHP as well...and a flight of drones for killing tacklers. A properly-fit salvage fleet stabber wont die to any situations that wouldn't kill the missionrunner himself (E.g. lag or falling asleep/going AFK). However, it also costs about 120 mil.
So, pretty much, the risk of ninjaing is at least on par with the risk of missionrunning, and probably a bit higher.
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Solomar Espersei
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Posted - 2009.10.10 21:36:00 -
[731]
Yeah, Kahega pretty much covered most of it. There's also a few missions where the NPCs are fully capable of scrambling you (if you're running without the WS) as soon as you pop through the accel gate. Additionally, it's possible for the MR to leave certain problematic NPCs guarding accel gates, while the directional scanner might suggest it's all clear. I could go on & on, but again, it's far more dangerous for us newbies than the missions are. To make it even more risky, a fully kitted out Salvage frigate represents a tremendous loss and they're frighteningly easy to frag. I mean, we are after all only talking about 2 week old characters here.
Addressing your points one-by-one
1) My character has like 1,200,00 SP, most of it in combat & navigation type skills so scanning is far harder than you make it out to be. Even with good skills and expensive probes, it still takes a while to find a couple 2 or 3 missions to scope out. BTW, you're only hitting the actual MRs away from the plane of the system so it's not like you know EXACTLY what's there. 2) Well, sort of, you find a Raven for instance (I find a lot of these in my local), but you've no idea at what point he's at in the complex or whether or not he has friends along for the ride. You often warp in only to find the mission is over, or already been salvaged. 3) This is completed understated and misunderstood. Most of the time, you warp in and then try to make sense of what is going on w/ the directional scanner. The NPC pirates don't show up on that thing until they're dead so you're playing a bit of poker here as you gauge whether or not it's safe to jump. You are often jumping into exceedingly hot zones and doing so in a ridiculously outclassed ship so learning how to GTFO is a paramount skill.
@ Kahega (and other Senior Ninjas),
Is there anything more frustrating than arriving at a mission where the accel gate (due to the MR ending the mission) has vanished and yet scanning and seeing all those wrecks. How do you get to those? WIll the Sister's Deep Space probes work as others have suggested? Give a newbie a hand here.
Hell, I decided to give mission running another shot, finally finding someone who'd send me into a combat situation, I have trained extensively as a combat pilot after all... what a waste. Any who, I go off and find the deadspace complex which I'm really only SUPPOSED to observe and leave. A few mooks show up, and then others spawn allowing me to provide my own wrecks for once. End of the run, I make maybe 100-200K ISK. The baddies never even get close to scoring any meaningful damage to my Kessy. Compare that to the run earlier in the night where my wingman and I knocked down about 4 Mil each, both of us nearly losing our valuable Salvage frigates. I understand why MRs run level 4s and want to salvage them. I just don't understand how they suffered through the other crap to get there.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.10 23:03:00 -
[732]
Quote: Is there anything more frustrating than arriving at a mission where the accel gate (due to the MR ending the mission) has vanished and yet scanning and seeing all those wrecks. How do you get to those? WIll the Sister's Deep Space probes work as others have suggested? Give a newbie a hand here.
You cannot scan down the wrecks themselves. You can, however, pop out combat probes and find the missionrunner when comes back to salvage the wrecks (if he does at all).
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Persia Tah'Muro
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Posted - 2009.10.14 01:20:00 -
[733]
Well I am glad to hear there is risk involved, so happy losses to all ninjalooters..lol.
I'll never agree that it's ok, or right, no matter what CCP wants. I still think it's pretty lame for a ninja to have unlimited protection from reprisal through the game mechanic.
I would personally like to see a ninja aggress when they take salvage and at least leave me a choice to fight or not. It's the lack of choice that drives me crazy more then anything else.
I've popped a looter, fired on a couple others, and lost a BS to another who flew a Command Ship. I lost that fight due mostly to my own noobness and lack of PvP experiance, but it was far more stisfying to fight and lose then to stand by helpless.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 02:19:00 -
[734]
Anyway, random other bit of info: I replaced the old video with a new one with less "uhhhhhhhhh"
I could make a fancy one involving bullet points, better presentation, etc, but this is likely all I can do for awhile given my current workload.
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Villa Wolfsbane
Amarr Foundation
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Posted - 2009.10.14 06:18:00 -
[735]
I'm still of the opinion that CCP needs to fix the inability to scan down wrecks.
Afterall, "wreck" does appear in the anomoly type dropdown on the scan filter page.
It just doesn't work.
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Solomar Espersei
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:31:00 -
[736]
@ Persia,
Well, as soon as CCP decides that you get to aggro me as soon as I salvage a couple bits of Scorched Telemetry, they will have officially put an end to the Salvaging Mini Profession. I still do not understand why so many MRs gets their britches in such a wad over the fact that a few of us choose to spend a lot of our SPs on the skills needed to do this gig properly while at the same time we run considerably more risk than the MR themselves. It's as if we're having the wrong kind of fun. Ay Caramba.
BTW, for any new Ninjas reading this, the learned Kahega may not have mentioned an extremely valuable bit of throwaway kit that on occasion can really speed you on your way to Millions:
Cargo Scanner I FTW
As an addendum to this massively informative thread, might I add this little scrap of information. For those of you who enjoy the toolbox approach to your NS ships, consider adding the Gate-running Looter to your arsenal. I recently bought a number of Vigils (and they're about perfect for the task IMO) for a fraction of their asking price. Simply put a buy order in for about 5 or so of them and wait for a day or 3. You should end up w/ about 5 for the price of 1.
Now, on those occasions when the mission is just too hot, or you're wanting to dare a shot, loot, jump through for intell, etc., go get your throw-away. Generally speaking, you only have to make away with one hold-full of Large loot and you've paid for ALL of those that you bought and then some. As a bonus, when they get blown up (and really, if you don't get one shot out from under you from time-to-time, you're just not trying hard enough), the default insurance payment will probably be 150% (or more) of what you paid for the ship.
Example Vigil Throw Away Minmatar Vigil AB I (you probably have 2 or 3 lying around) Cargo Scanner I (same here, you get them as loot quite often, and they're hardly worth selling)
...And that's it. On occasions, you may find that a Salvager I and a Tractor Beam can be handy to pull your jet can around though the TB is worth far more than your ride and the Slvgr probably doubles the price. I realize this ship is probably best for those just now getting into the profession, but as that would constitute a substantial number of readers, I thought it might be worth mentioning.
@ Villa,
Maybe this will get straightened out w/ Dominion, but yeah, it is frustrating.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.14 19:52:00 -
[737]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/10/2009 19:52:15 Can cargo scanners actually see into loot cans?
Anyway, I loot myself...but I don't go disposable. My salvage boat is a Fleet Stabber; 26K EHP and 1.8s align time, with 375 m3 cargo. Sure, it would suck to lose, but it's tanked hard enough that I can go around looting as much as I want while being able to pretty much ignore the missionrunner. I've been tempted to add a new section of the guide for looting.
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Persia Tah'Muro
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Posted - 2009.10.15 01:00:00 -
[738]
Well, as soon as CCP decides that you get to aggro me as soon as I salvage a couple bits of Scorched Telemetry, they will have officially put an end to the Salvaging Mini Profession. I still do not understand why so many MRs gets their britches in such a wad over the fact that a few of us choose to spend a lot of our SPs on the skills needed to do this gig properly while at the same time we run considerably more risk than the MR themselves. It's as if we're having the wrong kind of fun. Ay Caramba.
@ Solomar
I can use the same argument. I spent all my time skilling up my combat skills only to have a ninja come in a grab the loot I worked for. Ninjas are takiing money out of the pocket of MRs and are protected by the game mechanic.
Now maybe if a ninja came in and fought a ship to claim it's own salvage and loot then it would feel more fair....they will earn the loot. But wait...thats the same as running a mission in the first place. Heaven forbid ninja would run a mission.
It is what it is, and CCP likes it this way. So in the end, we'll agree to disagree, and manage our game time accordingly. As it is now I salvage while I fight to minimize a ninjas salvage target.
For what it's worth, I plan to train an alt for exploration and I know I'll toy with MRs but I won't take their ISK. The ends do not justify the means for some, even in a game.
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.15 01:34:00 -
[739]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/10/2009 19:52:15 Can cargo scanners actually see into loot cans?
What's this? I knew something a director of SN didn't know?
you noob.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.15 03:09:00 -
[740]
Originally by: JordanParey
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/10/2009 19:52:15 Can cargo scanners actually see into loot cans?
What's this? I knew something a director of SN didn't know?
you noob.
Don't you have a Fleet Tempest to run missions in?
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JordanParey
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.15 03:33:00 -
[741]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: JordanParey
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 14/10/2009 19:52:15 Can cargo scanners actually see into loot cans?
What's this? I knew something a director of SN didn't know?
you noob.
Don't you have a Fleet Tempest to run missions in?
No, I'm trading it in for a Rattlesnake pretty soon, since I know it would annoy you even more
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Solomar Espersei
Caldari Durer la Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.15 19:59:00 -
[742]
Originally by: Persia Tah'Muro ...I can use the same argument. I spent all my time skilling up my combat skills only to have a ninja come in a grab the loot I worked for. Ninjas are takiing money out of the pocket of MRs and are protected by the game mechanic.
Now maybe if a ninja came in and fought a ship to claim it's own salvage and loot then it would feel more fair....they will earn the loot. But wait...thats the same as running a mission in the first place. Heaven forbid ninja would run a mission.
It is what it is, and CCP likes it this way. So in the end, we'll agree to disagree, and manage our game time accordingly. As it is now I salvage while I fight to minimize a ninjas salvage target.
@ Persia, Not to beat this to death, but I don't begrudge the fact that you've spent all your time & SP to effectively run missions. Awesome, bravo, go make millions at it. Where we disagree is that you fundamentally object to the idea that the wrecks belong to the person who can get to them first, which I (and obviously many others) believe this adds an interesting challenge to the entire mission running dynamic. I salute your wise decision to salvage as you go (or you could just choose to ignore us as other MRs do). Generally speaking, if I see someone salvaging as they go, I may snag a wreck or two, but really, it's a better use of my time to seek out a more profitable "client" who isn't doing so. Really, it only adds another level of planning to your MR for those who insist on doing their missions in High Sec space.
Now if a Ninja is openly looting in front of you and you can't take matters into your own hands, well, that's a different subject. If I get popped, I never complain and just take it as part of the risk one runs in being a professional salvager.
Again, can you please explain to me why I should run missions? I mean, I do so every now and then. Ran 2 today in fact and had fun shooting up the bad guys. In the 1.5 hours I spent doing the mission, I made maybe 700K-900K. I made 30+ mil in about 3.5 hours yesterday ninja salvaging and I only looted after the MRs had given up on the mission and completed their runs. Again, my character is only 1 month old with 1.6 mil SPs. Only crappy Lv 1 agents will have anything to do with me. Given that I enjoy doing this profession, why in the world would I switch over to MR which would likely entail a neural remapping to have any hope of doing a proper job of it?
@ Kahega,
Any chance you might list your Fleet Issue Stabber loadout? I love my Stabber, but I can see how the Fleet Issue would be vastly superior.
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.15 20:19:00 -
[743]
Originally by: Solomar Espersei @ Kahega,
Any chance you might list your Fleet Issue Stabber loadout? I love my Stabber, but I can see how the Fleet Issue would be vastly superior.
I imagine it looks a lot like this:
[Stabber Fleet Issue, Ninja boat]
4x Salvager I Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher (Sisters Combat Scanner Probe)
10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II 2x V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix
4x Inertia Stabilizers II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Co-Processor II
2x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
However, you must have a full set of low grade Nomad implants for the low align time. There might be a tiny amount of room for tweaking that loadout, but probably not very much.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.15 20:34:00 -
[744]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 15/10/2009 20:44:51
No, actually. Why scan in an inferior ship? It's easier to just probe down several hits at once with a good scanship and swap to the fleet stabber for salvaging/looting. I misspoke though; 24K EHP instead of 26K, nanofibers reduce structure HP. Core defense field extender is a good idea for the last rig slot, though...which would bring it up to 26K [Stabber Fleet Issue, Ninja] Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Nanofiber Internal Structure II Inertia Stabilizers II Inertia Stabilizers II Damage Control II
10MN Afterburner II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II
Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II Salvager II
Salvage Tackle I Salvage Tackle I [empty rig slot]
Hammerhead II x3 Hobgoblin II x2
NO implants whatsoever. 1.7s align time with max skills, 1.8s with my skills.
Also...
Quote:
[Stabber Fleet Issue, Ninja boat]
4x Salvager I Sisters Expanded Probe Launcher (Sisters Combat Scanner Probe)
I'm insulted that you'd imply that I used t1 salvagers
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.15 20:57:00 -
[745]
Heh. I whipped that up in a couple of minutes in EFT. I like your fitting better (mine used way too much CPU, thanks to the probe launcher), and agree with your points about salvagers and scanning (which is why my alt uses T2 salvagers). :)
But I don't see where you're getting a 1.9s align time. Depending on which tool I run your fit through, without implants I see 2.3s to 2.6s align times indicated. With Nomads I get it down to 1.7s to 1.9s...
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.15 21:01:00 -
[746]
I turn off my AB/MWD when I'm planning to warp...
Also, holy ****ing christ I need to get a set of nomads...
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Mintala Arana
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.15 21:10:00 -
[747]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden I turn off my AB/MWD when I'm planning to warp...
Also, holy ****ing christ I need to get a set of nomads...
Umm, those align times I quoted were with AB/MWD off. Thus my puzzlement. What tool do you use for testing and comparing fittings?
Nomads are sweet, eh? Now go look at how much a full set will cost you. :) Maybe you have that much isk sitting around, but I sure don't, and it would take me longer than I want to spend to earn it.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.10.16 00:19:00 -
[748]
Huh. Were there any agility changes in Apocrypha 1.5? I was still using the old version of EFT which said 1.7s. Same fit in new EFT says 2.6s.
Anyway, you're right. Still very nice, though.
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Arth Lawing
Gallente Raddick Explorations Controlled Chaos
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Posted - 2009.10.16 12:15:00 -
[749]
This is an excellent how-to, and I fully approve it and the salvaging profession.
I do run missions for the most of my ISK, but salvaging is a good environmentally friendly activity, and I fully support it. It also helps keep space nice and tidy and free of all those ugly wrecks left around by slow and careless missioning noobs who don't salvage as they go, or lazily leave them behind. As for the earnings from salvage, I seen someone mention it here as 5-15mil for an hour or so, so it's an extremely slow way of earning ISK, but good for newer players. Also as mentioned it is much fun to zoom about in someone elses mission as they whine pathetically instead of taking an useful action which could help themselves. Anytime a salvager has arrived at my missions, which isn't very often, they usually don't find much worthwhile to hang around for, so like everything it has a counter.
As a final point I agree that wrecks should definately be acquirable using probes.
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Neckbeard Griefmonger
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Posted - 2009.10.17 07:08:00 -
[750]
Had to link this in an explanation on probing, so that deserves a bump eh?
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.10.25 21:31:00 -
[751]
bump for being a good guide that I referenced for a newb.
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Hellen Highwater
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Posted - 2009.10.29 14:21:00 -
[752]
If you dont like people salvaging your missions ensure that all wrecks are never outside you turret/missile range so that you can pop the wreck before a salvager manages to salvage them. Personally I enjoy the 'Get the salvager killed' mini game, most salvagers are very dim and easy to get killed, otherwise they would be doing something else with there time other than scrounging the dregs of other peoples missions. I dont get salvagers in my missions anymore but i miss them. They are not all brain dead though, some are just trying to provoke you so that there corp mates can kill you so dont attack them directly, just use the NPC's to kill them. Most importantantly ensure thay never get anything form you mission.
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semprorrr
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Posted - 2009.11.02 19:50:00 -
[753]
TBH, having read most of the threads in this post and having ran missions upto L4 myself, some of which have been nija salvaged. As well as having lost billions of isk worth of ships and fitting in both empire and in low/0.sec. I have to say, come on guys, **** happens deal with it. The sad thing about all this, is that there are peaple out there, regardless of age, that think they are either some kind of uba bad ass or being abused in some way by others. After all it only a game.
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.11.02 20:25:00 -
[754]
what do I do against Ninja Bots that Im beginning to see more frequently now? Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 11OCT09
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Jacqueri Calroszian
The Program Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.11.03 07:54:00 -
[755]
While I would normally equate the competency of your average ninja-salvager to that of one of my nose-hairs, even then, I think they would have a hard time following this guide.
Plus, not only does it teach you how to ninja-salvage, how to probe, and how to gank (at least somewhat), it also teaches you how to be a complete jackass. God knows Eve wouldn't be anything special were it not for your average online jackass.
Nicely done.
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Riedle
Minmatar Raptus Regalitor
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Posted - 2009.11.03 13:25:00 -
[756]
Quote: dont get salvagers in my missions anymore but i miss them. They are not all brain dead though, some are just trying to provoke you so that there corp mates can kill you so dont attack them directly, just use the NPC's to kill them.
FAIL.
Corp mates don't get aggro rights when shooting a looter in your mission.
Who's dim now?
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Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.11.03 19:13:00 -
[757]
oh thats when you start rolling a suicide ganker to hang around in a destroyer in your missions. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 11OCT09
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.03 21:01:00 -
[758]
Originally by: Nova Fox oh thats when you start rolling a suicide ganker to hang around in a destroyer in your missions.
Generally, any ship that could actually be one-volleyed by a destroyer is going to be far cheaper...not to mention the sec status loss. |
Nova Fox
Gallente Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.11.04 10:22:00 -
[759]
Edited by: Nova Fox on 04/11/2009 10:22:02
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Originally by: Nova Fox oh thats when you start rolling a suicide ganker to hang around in a destroyer in your missions.
Generally, any ship that could actually be one-volleyed by a destroyer is going to be far cheaper...not to mention the sec status loss.
I know just want to add risk to thier end. There are alot of carebare ninjas out there.
I also dont get the ninjas often enough that sec status becomes a problem. Pre-order your Sisters of ≡v≡ Exploration ship today, Updated 11OCT09
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Nylan Faust
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:32:00 -
[760]
[Mockery]-Executioner Expanded Cargohold II Expanded Cargohold II
1MN Afterburner II Cap Recharger II
Salvager I Salvager I
Small Salvage Tackle I Small Salvage Tackle I Small Salvage Tackle I
Works fine without the tackles, but it's oh so fast with them. Cherry pick all the loot, and scream over faster than a tractor can pull. 16 million in salvage in 15 minutes, off a Sansha Level 4 mission.
But to ask a question, has anyone had any luck ransoming mission objective items back to the missioner? I score a good set of mission objectives, and am unsure what to ask of the guy that may be within reason.
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IceBergSlim
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Posted - 2009.11.15 10:22:00 -
[761]
omfg, 'ninja' salvaging is soooooo f***ing lame and childish.
seriously, if this is your preferred method of online gaming then you most definitely need to get laid more.
'ninja-salvaging', my oh my oh my.......bahahahahahahahhaaa
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Fat Buddah
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Posted - 2009.11.16 02:40:00 -
[762]
This is very good but I wish you add a more detail about how to get out alive in an EPIC fail situation.
I don't ninja salvage. I rather 'attract' ninja salvagers in my missions, but I do have great respect toward SN coz from what I have observed they 1. generally leave when I do my own salvage 2. survive multiple webs and scrambles from NPC
Now that's SN but some others....
I have seen countless times aspiring ninja salvages in frigs get webbed and scrambled to death. In some occasions they loot my wrecks too before losing their ships from NPC aggro..(targeting the red blinking pod is fun) I generally try to warn them of coming new spawn or about scrambling frigs I haven't agrroed yet, but these things do happen sometimes.
So I think if you could add a little paragraph or so about getting out of such situation it would be real good for noobs trying their first ninja salvage.
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Solomar Espersei
Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:02:00 -
[763]
@ Fat Buddah, I'm glad you point that out. As we learn the ropes, we do lose ships; sometimes quite a few ships in fact, but that's part of the fun. Seriously, I think a lot of mission runners don't get the fact that jumping into these Lv 4 missions when they're still very hot, in a T1 frigate can be a very dangerous way to play EVE. It's an exciting part of the gig and learning when to salvage at top speed and when to GTFO is part of the learning curve.
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Bouchement
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Posted - 2009.11.16 18:00:00 -
[764]
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz
Originally by: Myshella Drake
Originally by: Polly Prissypantz All the time and effort you clueless noobs put into stealing other peoples salvage could easily be put into something more useful... Like I don't know... Running your own missions and you'd actually make more ISK for your time to boot. But don't let my logical arguments get in the way of you being a jackass.
Your point is troll?, i can make more money on lvl 4s than i can mining in hulk but i still mine...does that make me a noob?
I know this is just a game and all, and the anonymity that 'teh internets' makes being a jackass extremely tempting, but there's so many options in Eve on what you can do for enjoyment and satisfaction. You may think it's not the case, but how you get your kicks in-game is a direct reflection of what you're like in real life (or at least, what you'd like to be like in real life if there weren't bigger, badder people inclined to show you the error of your ways were you to act that way in real life).
Now, some people choose to be peaceful and carebear and don't really get in anyone's way. Others choose to go live out in 0.0 and shoot at each other, where the challenge is real and any killing/greifing is generally an accepted way of life. Then there's low-sec pirates who, for the most part aren't too bad since after all, they are in low-sec, so if they gank you it's mostly your own fault.
And then there's lowlife losers who do crap like can flipping, suicide-ganking and stealing other peoples salvage knowing full well that there's not much the victim can do about it (for the record I've never been a victim of any of these activities, so sorry, no 'carebear tears' from me (I figured I wasn't being cool unless I included 'carebear tears' in my post since all the cool kids are)). Now I know, these are all well within the rules of the game. I'm not arguing against that. But at the end of the day, you know that there's another person on the other end who you're directly impacting by your lame choice of entertainment and self-gratification. Rather than putting any attempt into actually going out and challenging yourself, you'd rather take the easy route and just pick on the easy targets and then pat yourselves on the back at a job well done.
Each to his own I guess. Some people just aspire to be at the bottom of the barrel since it's so easy to achieve.
WHOSE RESPONSIBLE THIS?!?!?!
No seriously, your logic and hypothesis that how people act in a GAME is a reflection of who they are in real life... are you serious? What are you smoking, and can I have some?
What about Role-playing? A lot of RPG's and FPSs, I've always been a chick character, you often get treated different and can absolutely kill people that let their guard down. I also love ninja salvaging, as most people don't even salvage that I've seen anyways. It's no surprise to anyone that random things happen in EVE, that's part of what makes it so fun.
So explain to me how a 6-4 hockey player can play as a ninja looting chick... am I a secret cross dresser? Am I a bully that secretly is an a-hole in games because there's nobody bigger to teach me a lesson in real life? (there are) Am I a thief in real life, or dishonest?
Please. Step off the high horse. I think you failed after you pointed out that it's just a game, then said "but"....
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.12.03 06:07:00 -
[765]
Had to reference this awesome guide.
/me wonders why it isn't stickied.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Kraelon
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Posted - 2009.12.06 19:02:00 -
[766]
There is absolutely nothing wrong with ninja salvaging, and I believe being a ninja salvager is a legitamate profession in the universe of Eve.
I will address a few points as to why I feel this way, and give solutions to angry mission runners that would like to salvage their missions with little to no competition.
First off, this is a PvP game, and everything is contested. That is the way it is, hi sec or no. PvP occurs everywhere, be it ship combat, undercutting prices on the market, competing for asteroids to mine in highly populated areas, 0.0 sovereignty, etc. Wrecks belong to no one, it is part of game mechanics. Salvaging wrecks is a separate mechanic, that requires training additional skills and fitting seperate modules that are not meant for mission running. It is a separate source of income outside of the mission mechanic, therefore nothing is being "stolen" from the mission runner. If part of the mission requirements were to bring your agent back the salvage of a particular ship, then perhaps things would be different. But that is not the way it is. Wrecks are just contested resources that happen to be spawned from the destruction of any ship, be it an npc ship in a mission or scanned down plex, or a player wreck that got owned by another player or couldn't handle the rats he was fighting.
Most mission runners that are smart and are in it for the isk, know that salvaging their own missions actually lowers their isk per hour. Therefore, most smart mission runners do not salvage their own missions, especially those that have built up high skills and money to run faction or T2 ships and mods for missions. They are able to run through level 4 missions too quickly for salvaging to be profitable. There is also the advantage of gaining lp faster by doing missions in this manner, and if you use your lp just to sell faction mods you purchase, then your income is just being sped up that much more.
Without ninja salvagers, all those left behind wrecks that mission runners arent salvaging go to waste. What does this mean? It means you will be paying more isk for all those rigs you love to put on your ships, because there is so much less salvage being introduced to the market. That, in effect, is taking away from your income as well, because you end up spending more money on your ships.
All of that being said, there are still those who want to salvage their own missions and avoid ninja salvagers. Which is fine, there is nothing wrong with that. Like any possible threat in the game, there are ways to avoid it. For example, you want to buy a Raven Navy Issue on contracts. Do you just buy from a contract that is titled Raven Navy Issue without looking at it, or do you research it first to make sure its not a scam? You research it of course, to make sure you are actually purchasing a CNR, and not a regular Raven. Mission Runners who want to avoid ninja salvagers must also do their research.
Pick a npc corp you want to work for, and pull up their info. Look for the highest quality lvl 4 agent, and see what system he/she is in. What you are looking for is a high quality lvl 4 agent in a backwater system that no one goes to, many corps have these, they exist I promise. Then, run your missions there, and I guarantee you will never see a ninja salvager. I run lvl 4s in a backwater system with only one system connection, and have not once ever had a problem with ninja salvagers. Just avoid main mission hubs that are heavily populated. Its too easy. Later, when you are able to run missions faster and realize salvaging is not profitable for you, then go back to the main mission hubs if you wish.
There is no reason to complain about ninja salvaging. It is a legitamate business that helps the economy, and if you are smart its easy to avoid them.
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SUOL TAKKER
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Posted - 2009.12.11 20:21:00 -
[767]
No matter how you loosers call it. If I kill someone in pvp I prefer to salvage his wreck. If i kill npc in mission, I want my reward. Its doesnt matter if ccp allowing it ing game, its what you are in nature. If you are a "RAT" in real life you'l be a "RAT" in game. I newer salvaget wreck that was not killed by me. That includes pvp wrecks and loot. All of that profit and fun its just an excuse.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.11 20:41:00 -
[768]
Originally by: SUOL TAKKER No matter how you loosers call it. If I kill someone in pvp I prefer to salvage his wreck. If i kill npc in mission, I want my reward. Its doesnt matter if ccp allowing it ing game, its what you are in nature. If you are a "RAT" in real life you'l be a "RAT" in game. I newer salvaget wreck that was not killed by me. That includes pvp wrecks and loot. All of that profit and fun its just an excuse.
3/10. Almost resembles a real emorage post, but your name reveals you.
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Easy Bot
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:41:00 -
[769]
You're an Evil itself Anyway Great guide and Thanks.
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Gyloz
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Posted - 2010.01.02 20:23:00 -
[770]
wouldnt have a problem with others salvaging my missions, if it at least flagged them
i take my time to do the mission, and take the risks of actually being killed by the rats ( little as they may be), and when i come back to get my salvage, theres nothing i can do about the **** ant who just jumps in, other than attempt to suicide gank with a ship thats likely worth far more than their salvage ship.
in essence, people who salvage others wrecks need to be flagged the same as someone who steals from wrecks..
anyone who complains about carebear missioners doesnt seem to realize that the carebear salvager takes even less risks than the missioner
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:03:00 -
[771]
Edited by: Kaian Voskhod on 03/01/2010 00:05:59 I used to have fun against ninja salvagers.
- 1 Sit in a wreck field with a "salvaging ship" (but with scram and something to kill a frig)
- 2 If a frig comes, let him steal, then kill him (FIRST LOL inside)
- 3 After he warped out, quickly warp out too. Take your pvp ship and return where you were. Some chances he comes back too with a pvp ship.
- 4 PAWN HIM (SECOND LOL or not =)
Another Lolage method
Take 2-3 noob alts with destroyers and arties while youre doing the mission. Wait for the salvager Suicide gank it
He will come back so you can cancel your mission... but anyway, he's focked and youre not ^ ^
...
A last one maybe and the easiest
Always take your time to shoot at your own wrecks. Never let a ninja earns something from you. You will loose time, it's true but he too.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:24:00 -
[772]
Quote:
- 1 Sit in a wreck field with a "salvaging ship" (but with scram and something to kill a frig)
- 2 If a frig comes, let him steal, then kill him (FIRST LOL inside)
- 3 After he warped out, quickly warp out too. Take your pvp ship and return where you were. Some chances he comes back too with a pvp ship.
- 4 PAWN HIM (SECOND LOL or not =)
Depending on skills and ships involved, of course...you could very easily die as well.
Quote:
Take 2-3 noob alts with destroyers and arties while youre doing the mission. Wait for the salvager Suicide gank it
He will come back so you can cancel your mission... but anyway, he's focked and youre not ^ ^
You lose many times the ISK that he did...not to mention the fact that most ninjas I've met who don't salvage in something tanked have a ****load of spares ready and fitted up. You waste a lot of time (and utility, as your alts could be used for other things) doing that.
Also, you can only do this for a certain amount of time before having to rat your sec status back up, since just recycling the alts is an exploit?
Quote:
A last one maybe and the easiest
Always take your time to shoot at your own wrecks. Never let a ninja earns something from you. You will loose time, it's true but he too.
okay...?
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Slaydo GAme
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:43:00 -
[773]
Most of the time I'm indifferent toward them. As long as they don't go blinky red and actually ask first I don't have a problem. most of the time I abandon everything for them simply to be nice.
People need to pay attention to what the wrecks are....gurista is generally **** so I honestly wouldn't care...knock your socks off man, something like angels...I'd prolly get slightly annoyed. If they agitate you that much then shoot your wrecks and move away for an hour to do something else...better yet would be wait for a time when there is less people (night to early morning). Or waste time and after you empty a room clean it out with a slavager before continuing.
I havent really read into it yet(I prolly should) but did probing seriously get that much easier for everyone and their dog? :P lol Still a way to make money, adapt or move on guys...if you run 4s you really shouldn't be *****ing.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.01.03 10:13:00 -
[774]
Ah, it a little dirty but...
I found another way to **** off ninja salvagers but ...
To have fun of them, i sit out of the station with my main and a suicide gank ship. When i see a probe ship, T2 is better: BAM!
I know all probers aren't nijas, but i have my negative standings with some corps you know =)
Next ? I hope to be wardeced =))))
YARRBEAR? **** Yeah!
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Xan O'Morph
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Posted - 2010.01.03 11:32:00 -
[775]
I'm not sure if its even worth salvaging or looting for me now due to the savage cut in salvage prices which are sill falling in some. Using two highly skilled combat alts I find that most missions are best completed as quickly as possible ie just earn the LP, bounties and completion bonuses, i will try and loot and salvage on the fly.
It would probably pay me to have a ninja salvage tag behind me and clean up if we could both come to an agreeable arangement
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Star Cinder
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Posted - 2010.01.23 07:18:00 -
[776]
Hey guys!
Great guide! thanks very much for posting it. I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a good spot where people are doing lvl 4 missions. I'm near The Citadel region and was hoping to find something close. Thanks!
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2010.01.23 16:08:00 -
[777]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Scanning Read this first.
CCP ****ed up the wiki page, it no longer displays anything.
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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ChainSOV
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Posted - 2010.01.28 11:42:00 -
[778]
here is the working link
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Commander Rahl
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Posted - 2010.01.29 23:05:00 -
[779]
Thanks for this guide! just successfully probed my first mission runner. he was in a harbinger. i started salvaging the wrecks and he immediately invited me to a convo and started yelling at me. He then said that if i continued, I would be dead. He started attacking me(.7 system by the way) LOL but i got away before he could kill me. I then warped back to find the wreck of his harbinger. Looted, salvaged it. Told him about it in the private chat. He yelled at me some more, threatened to kill me in real life, etc.
Good times.
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price checkinho
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Posted - 2010.01.30 11:13:00 -
[780]
Edited by: price checkinho on 30/01/2010 11:13:39
Originally by: IceBergSlim omfg, 'ninja' salvaging is soooooo f***ing lame and childish.
seriously, if this is your preferred method of online gaming then you most definitely need to get laid more.
'ninja-salvaging', my oh my oh my.......bahahahahahahahhaaa
I get laid so much and love to ninja salvage, your post just makes me want to ask my wife for a BJ while I ninja salvage YOU.
PS to OP the guide is great.
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Pinkdaddy
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:15:00 -
[781]
Originally by: Commander Rahl Thanks for this guide! just successfully probed my first mission runner. he was in a harbinger. i started salvaging the wrecks and he immediately invited me to a convo and started yelling at me. He then said that if i continued, I would be dead. He started attacking me(.7 system by the way) LOL but i got away before he could kill me. I then warped back to find the wreck of his harbinger. Looted, salvaged it. Told him about it in the private chat. He yelled at me some more, threatened to kill me in real life, etc.
Good times.
LOL !
I wish i'd get these responses :D Gotta love 'em.
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Ozerh
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Posted - 2010.03.22 07:59:00 -
[782]
So I got 3 or so pages in before getting bored of the back and forth ranting. I run missions when not on ops for a little extra isk in Ylandoki. I don't fly them nearly as well as many since I've trained heavily in minmatar, but that is fine with me because I just play for a good time. I have been running missions for years now and have yet to have a ninja salvager encounter. Personally, I would welcome a bit of company to break up the monotony of pew pew splode splode of npcs, even at the cost of a slight decrease in profit from said mission. It is simply not worth the frustration to get upset over such things in my opinion and if it means helping another player out a bit, then so be it. I funded my very first rifter by stealing ore from a miner before doing do flagged you to them.
-Oz
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Hedda Hopper
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Posted - 2010.03.23 21:13:00 -
[783]
Here's a bit of info for those of you who aren't getting it. I've been playing this game since beta, and have seen more than my share of griefing and @sshattery from many different players in many different systems.
And yes, I'm mostly a lifetime carebear, with very little inclination towards pvp. But there comes a time in your Eve life that you get tired of people who wish to 'grief' or just be idiots pushing you around or 'ruining your game'. So my perspective is from the carebear side. And you carebears who still cry about SN and people like them probably won't like what I have to say, but it might help you understand a bit better and stop all the crying (because that is what SN and their types like more than even stealing your loot or blasting you to smithereens)
1. Salvage does not belong to you. I don't understand why players still don't understand this as developers have said it multiple times. This is how it is. Nothing you say is going to change this. Accept it.
2. Ninja looters exist. Ninja salvagers do not. Why? Because if you read #1, you'd see that salvage belongs to only the guy who gets to it first. Why does the guy who jumps into your mission and salvages your wreck not flash red? Because it is not a criminal offense. So there can really be no 'ninja salvagers', just plain old salvagers. Ninja looters on the other hand, are the ones who steal your loot and flash red to you. There is a pretty significant difference, and the faster you understand this, the better you will feel as it will make your emorage factor go down a bit.
Now...what to do about it other than cry on the forums, or worse, cry loudly in local?
(and I'll leave out the dual-boxing/dual-account/alt bit as that's common sense/knowledge)
1. Train up some skills for PVP, and learn how to PVP. Plenty of good places in Eve to show you the ropes. This is by far the most important way to keep ninja looters from ruining your game. Fly your mission ship around, get ninja'd, and go back to get your own super pvp ship and engage. Better yet, shoot at the ninja first so he has rights on you, and he thinks you will be easy kill. Ninjas hate showing back up in their pvp ship and finding a real fight on their hands, as their nasty pvp ships have some expensive gear on them as well.
NOTE: Older, more experienced ninjas like to fight, and are willing to risk a bit more, especially if you are a lot newer and not very pvp-heavy in your skills. You pays your money and you takes your chances, but ninjas will respect you a hell of a lot more by fighting a real fight than cursing them in local or even getting your pve carebear ship blown up.
2. shoot your wrecks as the ninja approaches each. Put your damn drones away, and just watch where the ninja goes. Headed to that Large Generic Wreck? Shoot it. Pop, ninja moves on to next wreck, pop. I've had to shoot over 40 wrecks in a mission once just so one of these guys didn't get a single ounce of loot or salvage. He thought he was making me angry at having to pop all my wrecks, but the reality is that I do so many L4 missions that losing 40 wrecks, hell, losing 4,000 wrecks is nothing. If you do L4's, this should be your attitude. Seriously...I've got literally thousands of every type of salvage and module in my hangar from the L4's I do. If you are crying about losing a few...well I don't know what to say honestly.
My main has popped around 15 ninja looters. Of those, five of them came back in pvp ships and met me in my own pvp ship. Score? Me 1, Ninjas 4. Best part? A few of those ninjas I podded because I could get their pod locked and alpha'd in time, and yeah, I took a nasty sec hit with each one. But I L4, and that takes no time to build back up. They avoid me like the plague usually.
So in the end, I'm a happy carebear since a couple of them emorage'd me about the implants in their head. You know it hurts when they emorage YOU. Ninjas never expect podded in high sec, so I guess some dont use jc's
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Steel Wraith
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Posted - 2010.03.24 07:47:00 -
[784]
Confirming that real ninjas loot. Salvage alone isn't much isk anyway.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.03.24 09:55:00 -
[785]
I don¦t know what this peace of s*** has to do with "Mission & Complexes" - it should be in "How to ruin Mission & Complexes", so for gods sake move this to C & P.
But, just in case it¦s not moved, here some advice for teaching those ninjas...
As we mission runners are smart, high skilled ppl, with tons of iskies, thats what i do when my mission is "disturbed".
1) Don¦t EVER convo the ninja. 2) Shoot all the wrecks he¦s moving to. 3) Don¦t finish the mission when there is a mission item like the "damsel", it might be stolen, and you get even more ****ed off.
Anyway as you are now ****ed off:
1) Go Dodixie. 2) Have your mission ship, a pvp fitted dessy, a pvp fitted HAC, both with cloaking devices, ready. 3) Do a L4 and dont loot and salvage. 4) Get in your dessy return and drop a can with something "juicy", move a bit and cloak. 5) Ninja shows up, looks around stupid, starts looting and salvaging and steals "juicy" thing from your can. 6) Uncloak and hope he¦s not paying attention. 7) Lock, scramble, web and pop ninja. Don¦t pod. 8) Hear epic whining in local, and ninja swearing revenge. 9) When ninja is off, hurry to get in your HAC, return. 10) Most of the time you¦ll don¦t have to cloak anyway, as ninja is emo-raging and does not realize you¦ve changed ship as well. Anyway it¦s safer couse he might return with a blob. 11) Ninja returns solo in a poorly skilled and poorly fittet BC. 12) If cloaked hope he¦s stealing again or you still have agression on him. VERY important because you don¦t want to loose your HAC for beeing concordokken (and got epic lough). 13) Lock, scram, web and pop ninja second time, now pod him and take the security hit, you can afford it. 14) Now enjoy even more EPIC whining on local cause he¦s lost a set of +3 implants. 15) DON¦T try 1 to 14 on chars older than 1 year! 16) Return to your business, wait till you get ninjad again and start with 1 when feeling for it.
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:04:00 -
[786]
^^ butthurt much?
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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triafrenum
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Posted - 2010.03.24 15:20:00 -
[787]
Edited by: triafrenum on 24/03/2010 15:25:23 Postman I do hope that is a troll. If it isn't your plan has a huge flaw
Your giving them what they want.
Most people who steal loot just want to be shot so they can have some fun.
But like I said that really looks like a troll post to me trying to get some idiot carebear to lose a hac
Edit: Ah you are probably not a troll because you like so so so many people out there don't understand basic game mechanics
You steal from someone their whole corp gets to shoot you. They shoot you you are the only one who can shoot them back
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JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.03.24 17:52:00 -
[788]
we couldn't just let this die >.<
wish they would lock this thread but put it in the resources sticky.
I thought we got over this January 30th?
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Casmy Blue
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Posted - 2010.03.24 22:36:00 -
[789]
Originally by: triafrenum Edited by: triafrenum on 24/03/2010 15:25:23 Postman I do hope that is a troll. If it isn't your plan has a huge flaw
Your giving them what they want.
Most people who steal loot just want to be shot so they can have some fun.
But like I said that really looks like a troll post to me trying to get some idiot carebear to lose a hac
Edit: Ah you are probably not a troll because you like so so so many people out there don't understand basic game mechanics
You steal from someone their whole corp gets to shoot you. They shoot you you are the only one who can shoot them back
Oh yeah, they just want to have fun. Everybody who goes out there trying to ninja salvage, it's a blast for them to lose their ships to a cloaked HAC, I bet they're just thrilled about it, laughing about what a GF it was.
Are you ******ed? The kids doing the ninja salvaging cry JUST as much as the kids losing it when things don't go their way. I've been on BOTH sides of the fence, and I've certainly seen firsthand someone start *****ing up a storm in local about how "salvage isn't anybody's" and how lame it is to get suicide ganked and how he's going to come back in his PvP ship and whine and whine.
And I've seen the ****ed-off mission runner make an ass out of themselves by crying their goddamn eyes out about how somebody's salvaging their mission wrecks. And if you think for a second that just because you're playing Eve aggressively instead of passively you're less prone to crying about a loss, you're living in a dream world.
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My Postman
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Posted - 2010.03.25 10:16:00 -
[790]
Originally by: triafrenum Edited by: triafrenum on 24/03/2010 15:25:23 Postman I do hope that is a troll. If it isn't your plan has a huge flaw
Your giving them what they want.
Most people who steal loot just want to be shot so they can have some fun.
But like I said that really looks like a troll post to me trying to get some idiot carebear to lose a hac
Edit: Ah you are probably not a troll because you like so so so many people out there don't understand basic game mechanics
You steal from someone their whole corp gets to shoot you. They shoot you you are the only one who can shoot them back
Holly fu**, the forum hamsters ate my post so again, CCP fix this s***, i don¦t want to type everything twice!
Of course you¦ll missed the point where i quoted that this is not a good idea to do against an experianced ninja! So checking out the ninja¦s char before would be a good idea, and than even it could be an alt.
Anyway, risk is lower when seeing a three month old char in a noobcorp, at least that is what i found out.
And by the time one is able to use a hac properly, this one should¦nt be "noob" anymore, and if one (or me) looses a hac, ok so what. Mission runners should have tons of iskies, so who cares about a hac.
@ Dacry
Butthurt = yes, Got over it = yes.
When i first got ninjad i was screaming f*** in local, emo-raging for half an hour. Some month or so later, i had to find out how good an AF works against my mission fitted myrm, after coming bliky to me and i thought i was "ready for action". Had to learn it the hard way.
And after realizing that CCP feels quite happy with having all advantage on ninjas side i felt i have to do something about.
Now, after tons of missions and to know what loot and salvage to expect, i don¦t loot and salvage some missions, simply for beeing quicker. Depends on my mood if i start popping wrecks when ninja shows up, sometimes i do, sometimes i don¦t. Sometimes i type "feel free to loot and salvage" in local, but many times ninja smells trap and leaves, so what.
TL;DR; Butthurt, but got over it long long time ago.
Fake edit: I¦ll be dodixie tonite, missioning. And as i¦m in a VERY good mood today, when reading "feel free to loot and salvage" it¦s NO trap. Of course my mind can change till evening, be aware of that
Thanks for reading.
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Milk Addict
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Posted - 2010.04.12 00:04:00 -
[791]
Bumpin for justice
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Thanatta
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Posted - 2010.05.11 19:11:00 -
[792]
Originally by: Sigul Siento Edited by: Sigul Siento on 10/08/2008 19:44:37 Not sure if this has been mentioned, but here's a tip: if while flying to your mark the screen goes green, warp away asap (and pray if applicable). It's a storyline mission I think, where you have to survive through a toxic cloud. In a level 4, the damage is enough to splat a cheetah in 1-2 hits, depending on skill and equipment. I've gotten away in structure a few times before, but this time I barely got away in my pod (not sure if the toxic will podkill you, but I took some pod damage and didn't stick around to investigate further).
And people say ninja salvagers have it easy with no danger
edit: oh and when you do find something good, when your scanner tells you of dozens of large angel wrecks and many times more smaller ones, when you rush of to get your salvage ship... don't forget to bookmark before you warp off *bangs head against log-off button*
That's Recon part 3 of 3, FYI (level 4). The lower versions of this are easy to escape if you're tanked at all, and paying attention.
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Nagal Sombre
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Posted - 2010.05.12 08:27:00 -
[793]
If i haven't came across a ninja salvaging video on you tube, honestly i'm not sure i would have sticked to this game, and probably would have stopped playing mmo all together. I tryed EVE by pur curiosity because i was totally disgusted with the thousand mmo i tryed since i began playing them 10 year ago, which ended up always the same way, grind, grind, grind. It is just a superb idea to let even the newb access a non grindy aspect of the game, give them a good isk boost at start, and give them a great introduction to player vs player aspect of the game (i mean in larger sense of pvp, not just the i kill you you kill me). I also think its a great way to balance the economy, between older and newer players.
Sure the ocean of tear you have to face is a bit annoying, sometime i was depressed by the people reactions, like people getting concorded, or destroying their own loot to forbid you acces to wreck, or race with you even taught they have no chance, because it your job, right, its sad honestly especially knowing how inneficient all those reactions are. As an exemple i always manage to get around 1/2 of wreck from people poping them, they get nothing, not a very good deal if you ask me. And i won't even talk about all those people poping their wrecks or winning like *****, who in the same time let behind them millions in loot which worth more than the entire slavaged mission in cans they forgot to even open... people are just inconsistant most of the time.
Also i'm slowing down my salvaging activity a lot now for some reasons, and wait to get more specialised posibilities (stealth bomber probably, have to see how annoying beacon decloaking is), i have to test it so i can acheive a really clean job. Taught not all salvagers like to be clean, some rather look for dirty jobs
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yard dog
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Posted - 2010.05.24 06:26:00 -
[794]
if you shoot your own wrecks /loot cans dont you get a security hit ?
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Potasio
Caldari Gun Metal Grace Gun Metal Grace.
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Posted - 2010.08.09 10:27:00 -
[795]
Originally by: yard dog if you shoot your own wrecks /loot cans dont you get a security hit ?
Nope! You can blow up your loot and the wrecks as much as you want. Pretty funny to watch really.
Some tend not to care the first time, but if you can track them down again and again...
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Huhuhuhuhuhuh
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Posted - 2010.08.09 10:58:00 -
[796]
I propose an addition to the guide. Ninja salvaging in wormhole space.
Scout a wormhole being farmed (most difficult part), deploy combat probes. Salvage with heavy dictor.
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Richard Christy
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Posted - 2010.08.09 11:07:00 -
[797]
Originally by: Potasio
Originally by: yard dog if you shoot your own wrecks /loot cans dont you get a security hit ?
Nope! You can blow up your loot and the wrecks as much as you want. Pretty funny to watch really.
Some tend not to care the first time, but if you can track them down again and again...
Man, we almost hit the 90 day lock. :-|
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DeMichael Crimson
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2010.08.17 19:46:00 -
[798]
Edited by: DeMichael Crimson on 17/08/2010 19:49:28
Nice guide, I was just wondering why you left out the 'Ninja' part ?
Aren't Ninjas usually stealthy (Unseen) and quick ?
With a cloak fitted, you can warp in to a mission area and check it out without making your presence known. If it's a multi room mission, when the mission runner leaves the first pocket you can decloak and get busy.
Imagine the mission runners reaction when he comes back to find everything gone? Hell, if you stay one room behind him, you could actually clear out almost everything before he even knows what happened.
If you're looking for some tears, just send a message or say thanks in local chat.
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Dragon Lord
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.08.18 08:21:00 -
[799]
Nice guide mind you best thing i ever saw was a ninja get it horribly wrong, he warped in decided to steel some bountys of me with the final blow trick only he over egged it and got scrammed and full room aggro, since he came to my mission to grief I thought haha think ill sit back and relax and watch him pop :P the guy even had the nerve to threten me about not salavging his ship wreck :P priceless a ninja whine :P
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Rylech
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.08.18 11:29:00 -
[800]
I've heard it remarked that Gurista salvage is better than it used to be. Can anyone with experience confirm?
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Awesome Possum
Gallente Isk Relocation Services
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Posted - 2010.08.18 14:54:00 -
[801]
Originally by: Dragon Lord Nice guide mind you best thing i ever saw was a ninja get it horribly wrong, he warped in decided to steel some bountys of me with the final blow trick only he over egged it and got scrammed and full room aggro, since he came to my mission to grief I thought haha think ill sit back and relax and watch him pop :P the guy even had the nerve to threten me about not salavging his ship wreck :P priceless a ninja whine :P
Too bad the bounty system was changed a long time ago and has not been based on final blow for awhile now.
Try to learn how your mechanics work before making stories up?
Kahega really should update the OP with new infos. Rig changes made gravity rigs dirt cheap, vigil's the best salvage ship... and some others i can't remember. ♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Dragon Lord
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2010.08.18 15:45:00 -
[802]
wasnt making it up this probably happened when salavging first came out over two years ago, whatever he was doing he managed to get aggro and failed to gtfo, so he died and I laughed.
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Mar Lee
An Army of None
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Posted - 2010.08.19 04:20:00 -
[803]
Originally by: Rylech I've heard it remarked that Gurista salvage is better than it used to be. Can anyone with experience confirm?
Last I checked, Gurista salvage was still inferior to Blood/Sansha/Angel salvage. Sorry :)
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Reckoning.
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Posted - 2010.09.22 06:36:00 -
[804]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 22/09/2010 06:39:14
Quote: Kahega really should update the OP with new infos. Rig changes made gravity rigs dirt cheap, vigil's the best salvage ship... and some others i can't remember.
Just resubbed actually. Good point, updating OP. Anyone is free to point out anything that needs to be updated now.
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JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.09.22 12:36:00 -
[805]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 22/09/2010 06:39:14
Quote: Kahega really should update the OP with new infos. Rig changes made gravity rigs dirt cheap, vigil's the best salvage ship... and some others i can't remember.
Just resubbed actually. Good point, updating OP. Anyone is free to point out anything that needs to be updated now.
Damn, and here I was hoping you'd never come back again [i]2000 B.C. - "Here, eat this root." 1000 B.C. - "That root is heathen, say this prayer." 1850 A.D. - "That prayer is superstition, drink this potion." 1940 A.D. - "That potion is snake oil, sw |
Admiral Rufus
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Posted - 2010.11.27 19:49:00 -
[806]
Is there a way to increase your chances of hitting people running lvl 4's through probing? do the filters regarding ship/cosmic sig type actually work?
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bushwacka
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Posted - 2010.11.29 00:46:00 -
[807]
Originally by: Admiral Rufus Is there a way to increase your chances of hitting people running lvl 4's through probing? do the filters regarding ship/cosmic sig type actually work?
apart from having good skills and equipment for probing and checking that the target isn't right next to a celestial object/station/gate, there isn't really much to it. and yes, the filters work of course.
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Dek'athor
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Posted - 2010.11.29 12:23:00 -
[808]
I'm looking' forward to having my mission ninja-looted.
I've got a stash of cheap T2 fit pvp rifters / ruptures I'm building up for "oh, the missionary warped out to cause me grief, lol...wtf...way am I tackled..." effect.
If overwhelming neutral repÖ arrives, then oh well, take the cheap loss and log for the nite, play some other game, watch some movies...etc. If not neutral RR, eat ninja for breakfast, THEN log for the nite, play some other game, watch some movies...etc
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Kahega Amielden
T.R.I.A.D
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Posted - 2010.12.20 03:01:00 -
[809]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 20/12/2010 03:00:43
Quote: Is there a way to increase your chances of hitting people running lvl 4's through probing? do the filters regarding ship/cosmic sig type actually work?
Late response but...
Filters -do- work, but the problem is they don't give you any new information. If you haven't gotten the signal strength high enough to know what type of ship it is, then the filters won't help you. They will only kick in when you get past the 25% mark.
On your end, that may show up as, "wtf why did the signal disappear?"
If you narrow down a signal and that takes it over 25%, and it turns out that the signal was not on your filters, it will just not show up. For this reason, you should have all ships on your filter.
Quote: I'm looking' forward to having my mission ninja-looted.
I've got a stash of cheap T2 fit pvp rifters / ruptures I'm building up for "oh, the missionary warped out to cause me grief, lol...wtf...way am I tackled..." effect.
If overwhelming neutral repÖ arrives, then oh well, take the cheap loss and log for the nite, play some other game, watch some movies...etc. If not neutral RR, eat ninja for breakfast, THEN log for the nite, play some other game, watch some movies...etc
The problem is, ninjalooters maximize speed and agility. It's not likely you'd hold one down in a rifter. I could only see it working if the mission allowed MWDs, you had a MWD/scram, and he only had an AB.
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Jor Zeelot
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Posted - 2011.01.12 00:34:00 -
[810]
Edited by: Jor Zeelot on 12/01/2011 00:35:11
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Takhisesis
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Posted - 2011.01.28 00:54:00 -
[811]
Bump, this needs to be stickied already people.....methinks I will try out this professional salvaging thing myself...might help me get into a harbinger a little easier. -.-!
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JooJoo Akarr
Minmatar Territorial Western Alliance of Higher Technology
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Posted - 2011.01.28 11:14:00 -
[812]
As much as I hate ninja salvagers, I've actually come to enjoy having them in my mission sites. Because everytime they decide to jump in I target all my wrecks and blow up each wreck before they get a chance to get to any of them. Man, its a good thing i still make 10-20 mil isk + lp points per mission or else i would be worried about all that salvage! ^.^
Ninja salvaging doesn't make isk. People do it to start a fight against missioners who dont know better. Gotta get that pve fit raven on your kill mail cuz you sure aint gettin it in low sec LOL. Rawr |
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.01.28 13:40:00 -
[813]
Wow really? 27 pages? The first one was kinda interesting, I didn't bother with the rest but what a waste of words this must be.
For the record, I've never ninja-salvaged and in my 5 years in Eve I've only ever had 2-3 come into my missions, I think it was Dodixie. The first time was a bit unsettling but hey whatever, you move on.
I do however think that Polly had it 100% on the first page, proof being all the rushed and rather defensive counterposts. Guilt is a ***** and it will eat your soul
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Sanadras Riahn
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Posted - 2011.01.28 15:08:00 -
[814]
Originally by: JooJoo Akarr Ninja salvaging doesn't make isk. People do it to start a fight against missioners who dont know better. Gotta get that pve fit raven on your kill mail cuz you sure aint gettin it in low sec LOL.
You've no idea what you're talking about, do you. Ninja Salvaging actually got me my start the first time through this game. There were people who would whine, complain, target me to try to drive me off, even start shooting their wrecks. I'd pick up what I could, then move on to my next target. Sell the pieces, bring in some nice cash, it was a great way to live! I wasn't baiting anyone my entire career 'cause I was on my own. I thought it was a fun, engaging way to make ISK, and the occasional tears in local made it all the more worth it. I always left the loot alone since that wasn't free reign, which goes along with that "Not baiting you to get you killed" thing.
It funded my first actual salvaging operation in a Hurricane; pay the people for their wrecks and take the salvage/loot, or split it 50/50 with the runner. Made a bit of a name for myself out there, even. All because of this guide.
So before you decry every ninja salvager as someone just trying to bait you to get a Raven killmail, stop to think a second. Think for just a moment that hey, maybe that guy's just making some money in his favorite way to play the game.
I highly recommend this guide to anyone who has any interest in salvaging or looking for a good source of income at the start of their career. The SP investment is small, the ISK turnout is nice for a newcomer, and it can lead to bigger, better things!
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JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.01.28 18:37:00 -
[815]
Originally by: JooJoo Akarr As much as I hate ninja salvagers, I've actually come to enjoy having them in my mission sites. Because everytime they decide to jump in I target all my wrecks and blow up each wreck before they get a chance to get to any of them. Man, its a good thing i still make 10-20 mil isk + lp points per mission or else i would be worried about all that salvage! ^.^
Ninja salvaging doesn't make isk. People do it to start a fight against missioners who dont know better. Gotta get that pve fit raven on your kill mail cuz you sure aint gettin it in low sec LOL.
You.. pulled this all the way from page 7 or whatever it was this time? Was tht REALLY necessary? Let it GO, ffs.
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Dryfty
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2011.01.28 18:53:00 -
[816]
Originally by: Takhisesis Bump, this needs to be stickied already people.....methinks I will try out this professional salvaging thing myself...might help me get into a harbinger a little easier. -.-!
This was the necrobump JP, down big fella! :D
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reddot23
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Posted - 2011.02.07 03:56:00 -
[817]
window lickers doing anything in game is not a option for you this is all you can do highsec grifter corp no one care about loot are slavage in a game that you can get plex in have all loot in game and ships never even exit your hanger lot of noise from wanabe priate in a 8 year old game roflol
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Herr Wilkus
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Posted - 2011.03.21 03:09:00 -
[818]
I love this thread. Its smells like victory.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.04.10 02:35:00 -
[819]
So I resubscribed recently after school died down to find out that some hilarious e-drama resulted in The Ninja Alliance being yoinked. The new place to discuss ninja-related activities would be "Ninja Dojo". |
Chip Hazzerd
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Posted - 2011.07.09 17:20:00 -
[820]
To the Author
Thank you sir for the guide. I found it very useful and helpful in many ways. |
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Vasecho
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Posted - 2011.07.11 12:25:00 -
[821]
this post is really funny why go through all the scanning effort when ou could probally just ask in local that your looking to salvage missions.
Heck there an entire channel dedicated for salvagers to find mission runners to salvage the wrecks they cant be bothered to pick up any more and believe it or not there are more mission runners then salvagers in channel.
I do a lot of missions and if when i see a ninja slavager i always laugh at how much effort it took them to get there , they should of just asked and least got a warp in point.
and to all the missioners, what kind of missions are you doing that a single piece or even a whole room of salvage makes you even bat an eyelash?
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Blackberry Cobbler
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Posted - 2011.07.11 14:53:00 -
[822]
Originally by: Vasecho this post is really funny why go through all the scanning effort when ou could probally just ask in local that your looking to salvage missions.
Heck there an entire channel dedicated for salvagers to find mission runners to salvage the wrecks they cant be bothered to pick up any more and believe it or not there are more mission runners then salvagers in channel.
I do a lot of missions and if when i see a ninja slavager i always laugh at how much effort it took them to get there , they should of just asked and least got a warp in point.
and to all the missioners, what kind of missions are you doing that a single piece or even a whole room of salvage makes you even bat an eyelash?
Because joining a channel and asking for something that nobody wants doesn't generate any delicious tears.
Then again, neither does ninja salvaging, but let them keep thinking they are really sticking it to the carebears.
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Hillary Flammond
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Posted - 2011.07.11 15:12:00 -
[823]
I actually had my first ninja looter in a mission this weekend. It was kinda surprising. If i'd actually been doing anything other than blitzing for LP and standings, I might have been upset. If I'd been anything like skilled for or at pvp, i might have taken the pot shot for the hell of it, but I am not and I didn't. one day, though, i'll be doing my missions in a tricked out pvp ship and really show those... no, wait. i don't care that much. later!
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Borun Tal
Minmatar Just Abide
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Posted - 2011.07.11 20:24:00 -
[824]
So I can be a leet ninja by flying up to someone else's wreck and awesomely salvaging from it?!?! Kewl!!!
Oh, wait...
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Caren Patriach
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Posted - 2011.07.12 03:29:00 -
[825]
Edited by: Caren Patriach on 12/07/2011 03:32:39 Profesional Ninja (PVP type) : a char let's say A char ninja that skill for pvp in high sec with at least 1 pvp ship a char let's say B char with orca that diff corps for docking ship for pvper ships
A scanning and finding the sites for carebear sites. warping finding till the last room where the care bear still active. provoke by looting. if the carebear signs to warp out then u will have to warp out too. find a good range between npc, care bear and u. if the care bear aggress u then he will red. warp out to gate change to pvp ship in your alt orca. (the orca would not be red to your enemy) warp to mission area with orca following as fleet. then go to the carebear, scram him, webhim, kill him) don't worry about orca being targeted the won't attack it or they will be concord. if the battle not in your favour or just miss a little just move your orca to your A char then A change to other ship with full health and do aggain ( usually have 3 ships PVPers ship) u will absolutely win. if not or you are being gank up. change to shuttle and warp out fastly ( with big agile the won't stand to scram or web you that instantly) then your orca can warp out peacefully.
bonus : if win most carebear have decent fit. contra : u will be targeted but don't worry just goes to 30 - 40 jump and he will forgot you.
extra note : although you are RED the friend or alt that using orca won't be red even you change to other ships.
experience : already meet one of the pvper suddenly ninja using this method :p
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